FIREZINE'S GEORGE CARLIN INTERVIEW
Freditor
As a tribute to George Carlin, I'm posting the edited interview I did
with him for Firezine #6. Carlin performed at the MD Theater in
Hagerstown, MD and I contacted him using the magic words "Phil
Proctor". George requested to do the interview by phone at a later
date after his tour. He called me from his hotel room in Las Vegas. He
really respected Proctor in particular and loved The Firesign Theatre.
A somewhat longer and less Firesign centric version of the interview
was printed in Outre Magazine. It will be re-printed soon in Filmfax
Magazine as a tribute. You can visit www.firezine.net to see this
interview with graphics.
PICKING GEORGE CARLIN'S BRAIN BY FREDERICK C. WIEBEL, JR.
FIREZINE: HOW DID YOU FIRST COME INTO CONTACT WITH THE FIRESIGN
THEATRE?
GEORGE CARLIN: Well, I wasn't in contact with them originally during
the period that all their albums were so successful. At least if I
was, I don't remember, which is a common defense for that era. I
certainly was well aware of the work, the albums. I might have even
known some of the radio work. I'm not recalling that very well. But,
you know, it was a wonderful, more than a breath of fresh air, it was
just a wonderful, whole new clear channel of comic thought. And a
whole new avenue of expression for these values and ideals or
attitudes that were so commonly held at that time, but so uncommonly
expressed by them. So that was my attraction and I'm like a lot of
other people in that respect.
FZ: YOU'RE NOT PURSUING A COMEDY RECORD NOW, ARE YOU?
GC: No. No, I found out that in 1997 that I was able to write for the
printed page, in a satisfactory way. My book "Brain Droppings" did
very well. And not only it did very well in the market place but it
satisfied me a great deal. It gave me a great deal of joy to actually
do the writing and revisions and editing and all the thinking that
went into it. So, I found another outlet in print that I will now
follow. I have another book that I will be starting very soon, so I'm
not pursuing studio albums. I did have one that I did back in 1981,
half of it. You know, one half of the album was live stuff from the
stage and the other half was studio produced. And I'd always thought
that would be fun to do very well. But I wouldn't know… The attraction
isn't there. It would be sort of a… What do they call it? When you do
something mostly for your own personal enjoyment? A vanity project. It
would be mostly that.
FZ: ONE THING I LIKE IN YOUR PERFORMANCES, IS THAT YOU DEVELOPE A
VOICE FOR A PARTICULAR CHARACTER'S WAY OF THINKING.
GC: Well, yeah. Some part of me is a casting agent. And kind of
suggests how certain feelings come out, when I'm putting them in the
mouth of, you know, a second party. Then that mind bot, that thing
that makes those decisions just [Black voice] "Starts, just does them
like that, you know, 'cause that just seems like where he ought to
be."
Characters are wonderful. That's one of the untapped areas of my
comedy that I'm going to look after in these years coming to do
characters and the way that I'll use them is that I intend to go from
the kind of stand-up show I do now. I've done 11 HBOs. I'm going to do
one more of this type. By this type, I mean, developed in theaters and
1 nighters, the way I do; developed out there for a couple of years
and then put on stage. That's what I've always done. Then I want to go
to something else; a different form, a slightly different … Well, more
than just slightly different form, for a presentation on Broadway. To
do what is commonly called now, a one person show. But, in other
words, it would have some theme, in it, a couple of themes.
I'm already full of ideas on this. I have a lot of things already
developing. But it will kind of include a couple of threads of thought
that run throughout it. It will include characters and some staging,
not a great deal. Maybe not even as much as Lilly Tomlin did. But some
minimal staging to set it apart from stand-up and to emphasize that
it's a slightly different form for me. So those characters are going
to come into play. At least on that first one that I'm thinking of
doing.
FZ: I PARTICULARLY LIKE WHEN YOU GIVE THE 'VOICE OF DOOM' IT WAS LIKE
LORD BUCKLEY. IT'S JUST SO WONDERFUL TO HEAR THAT 'THE LORD' LIVES ON
IN YOUR MOUTH.
GC: Yeah, right, absolutely. I know it. I play his things more than 2
or 3 times a year. By that I mean everything. I have 2 110 min. tapes
that has everything on it. That's 220 min. and that's a lot of time.
But yeah, he lives on. One of the reasons I listen to him so
frequently is that I'm always making tapes for someone who hasn't
heard him. Somebody says, "I never heard of him!" Or else they'll say,
"Gee, I've heard of this guy but I can't find anything. What's he
like? Did you see him?" So I say, "Here. Just listen to this." Then it
blows them away.
I've done that in the past with Firesign's albums too.
FZ: YOUR HUMOR SEEMS TO RUN ALONG SIMILAR PARALELLS TO THE FIRESIGN'S.
YOU HAVE MORE OF A SORT OF VERBAL ATTACK UPON THE CULTURE AND THEIR'S
IS SORT OF LIKE MIXING IT UP. YOU DO THAT TOO. YOU STILL HAVE SOME OF
THAT RADIO BASED HUMOR IN YOUR PRESENTATIONS.
GC: Yeah. I find I think for the ear very much when I'm writing stuff
for the stage and when I'm then rehearsing or learning it out loud and
pencil editing, that I'm very very conscious of spoken word values and
what gets into the consciousness the most easily or subconscious most
easily, the thing that greases the path for the quickest entry into
the mind. And that all has to do with the economy of language and
proper choices that do lend themselves to the radio style.
FZ: YOU GET PRETTY VISCIOUS, SO WHY ARE YOU SO PISSED OFF?
GC: It's not that. I must arrange the language differently for you.
When people call it anger, I always point out that if you were with me
for 10 min. or 10 hours, you wouldn't see any evidence of an angry
person. And it's true. I don't live with anger. What I have is a
highly developed distaste for the direction my species has taken. And
I consider it an affront. I think this species had great, great, great
potential with this kind of a mind, that we were given this sort of a
brain, I should say, that we were given, to be able to distinguish
between us and something outside of us and theorize about it and think
abstractly, these great powers that we were given. And that we are
using them primarily in pursuit of goods and services, possessions, of
the power that comes from them, and on the other hand we soothe
ourselves with the superstitious nonsense of various forms of
religion, and worship and God and so forth, this monotheistic thing.
So I just find that distasteful but it has to do with a certain kind
of contempt. It's an applied anger, if you will, because I don't live
it and experience it every minute. But when I get down to actually
expressing the feelings I have about my fellow man or my fellow
Americans, it is contemptuous usually. So the best way for that to
play out on stage is for it to be heightened and intensified and
played as anger. But anyone sitting closely enough can see in between,
sometimes in between lines, a kind of a sparkle in my face or eyes
that belies that kind of simple analysis, "What are you so angry
about?"
But that's what it is. I mean, I just feel betrayed. I felt betrayed
by the church, when I was a young boy and discovered they were full of
shit, and I just feel betrayed on all these levels, so I don't choose
to participate, so I'd stand outside and point out the holes in
everything. Rather than trying to fix them, I'm one of the hole
pointer-outers. "There's another hole over here! You didn't see this
one. Come on, let me explain it to you. I'll describe it in full." Ha,
so I enjoy doing that.
FZ: ONE THING THAT I NOTICED THAT YOU DID WITH THE SWEAR WORDS. AT THE
BEGINNING OF THE SHOW, IT WAS KIND OF SHOCKING. BUT THEN AS YOUR
MATERIAL GOT HEAVIER AND HEAVIER I NOTICED THAT WHEN PEOPLE STARTED TO
GET UNCOMFORTABLE, YOU'D DROP A FEW SWEAR WORDS, AND THEN THEY'D
LAUGH. AND THAT WOULD RELEASE THEM A LITTLE. I'M SURE THAT WAS
INTENTIONAL.
GC: Well, no, it wasn't. I'll have to remember that now that it has
been pointed out. I have to listen to the new show here tomorrow on
the CD, so I'm going to remember that. If that is a pattern and it
apparently is, it's obviously some sort of subconscious defense
mechanism that protects me or something, that pushes that because I
don't sit and think that way. Maybe I think in a way that's what comes
out.
Everything is memorized and written before hand, so when I'm writing
it, I can honestly say to you, I don't think that way but I can be
pretty sure that whatever sort of matrix I work from, includes that.
That's it's in there somewhere as part of my directional signal. Then
I just do it and don't really call it that or notice it.
FZ: HOW DO YOU EVOLVE YOUR MATERIAL?
GC: Over the years I always kept all notes. I always have written down
every thought or idea, notion, anything; a full complete one-line joke
or a premise, a possibility for something, a topic I want to get onto.
I've always saved these things. At least I've always written down the
ones that seemed to feel the most promising and then let the others
go. So anything that gets written down has already passed one test.
And we're talking about eras going from small pieces of paper and
notes up to all the way now to using a computer. But they still start
out as notes.
My theory of it is; every time you read that note, when you think the
thought, it creates a neural path in the brain and that path
immediately starts looking for networks and connections. That's what's
wonderful, the brain does all of the work, without too much prompting.
And then when you write it down, it has to run through that neural
path again. And already, from the idea to the time you write it down,
it changes a little bit and you begin editing your own note. At least
I do. I'll put in a carrot, and I'll go in and I'll add a phrase or
I'll cross out one word and use another. But that's before the note's
even finished.
Then, naturally, you've read it 3 or 4 times, while reading it, while
working on it, at that moment, and it goes through the same path and
the paths gets richer and more textured. And then when you file it,
when you say, "Well, OK, it's now time to file this stack of papers.
I've got about 200 pieces of paper here, I'd better get them back in
the files, so they don't loose control. I start filing them and then
more order is imposed on them. Once again, each one of them goes
through that same neural path and connections are made stronger and
new networks are found. Even though most of this doesn't turn into a
lot of words right away, the brain is in there working and every time
I refer to that file or go to those notes, I'm going to see that and
it's going to work a little more. And eventually you start saying,
"Wait a minute, this goes with that and those 2 things. That belongs
together and this is a whole different idea. Wait, I didn't see this.
Now look, here's a subsection that actually stands alone. I can take
that out of this file and make a file out of that."
So it's this assiduous records keeping of my thoughts and notions that
have given me the ground work. Then what happens is; periodically as
I'm going through the computer files for some other reason, I'll
happen on something and just begin working on it a little. Just
turning notes into paragraphs or turning paragraphs into pages. Just
raising it from level 3 to level 4 and realizing I've improved it and
it's getting closer. Eventually over the period of years some of these
just knock on my door a little harder than others. And I say, "OK,
time to do this one. This is getting me a little excited in my belly
now. I can feel excited about this." Then I'll take out, for instance,
the file on 'kids and parents'. And that thing, for instance, when I
looked at it about a year ago, I said, "This has to go in the '99
show. I can't let this reverence of children pass another 2 years. I
have to talk about this one now." So I pulled it out and then really
started doing the hard work of shaping it, then doing it out loud, re-
shaping, doing it out loud. 'Cause doing it out loud is the key to my
editing.
FZ: I IMAGINE THAT SOMETHING CURRENTLY IN THE NEWS PROBABLY PULLS
SOMETHING UP OUT OF THE FILES TOO THEN.
GC: Yeah, it certainly can. It will ring a bell. But in terms of the
book thing versus stand-up, when the book was finished I thought to
myself, "Well in the next HBO show," meaning the one I just did, "I
don't want to be doing a whole bunch of things from the book." Because
I put some things in the book that I was, frankly, saving for stand-
up. But I said, "The most important thing, right now, is this book.
I'll always be able to do my stand-up shows. I want this book to be
the best it can." So I took things that I was saving and hoarding a
little bit and put them in the book and said, "You know, it's still my
stuff, if I want to wait 2 HBO shows and pull this piece out and re-do
it for the stage and upgrade it because I'll be a different person by
then anyway, then that's fair game. That's my stuff. I can do that.
And a real fan is not going to object to that."
And so I said to myself, "Instead of ever doing it in wholesale lots,
to do it selectively would be good, it'll be OK. It would probably be
good for the work." So that's what place I'm in now. As I start the
new book, and I also start a new HBO show, right about now, I'm
beginning to wonder, which ones, how I'll handle that balance in the
next book. I might give myself more latitude in the next book. I might
ease a little the kind of restrictions that I still feel in that area.
I might let myself do a few more things and not worry about it. Once
again, I want the book to be the best it can.
FZ: WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE STATE OF THE ART OF AMERICAN COMEDY AT
THE TURN OF THE CENTURY?
CG: Well, you know, I think it is and always will be a neglected form.
It's the exceptional experience when a Firesign Theatre comes along or
when a career like mine takes place. And by that all I mean, in
speaking of my own career, is a person who has for some reason,
external reasons in his life, a chance, an opportunity to spend his
whole career developing his stand-up and really trying to grow from
stage to stage and let your own personal maturity, as an individual,
reflect in the work. Not be just an entertainer stuck at one level but
be an artist who grows in life.
I don't think those circumstances occur often enough for that to
happen. There are certainly people who would have… Richard Pryor was
well on his way to having that. And he has left an amazing legacy in
spite of the interruption that took place, first of all by his movie
career, and second by his illness and his troubles. But there aren't a
lot of them that weren't interested in it to get out of it. "How can I
get into comedy, so I can get out of it?" Get to the movies, out of
stand-up.
But there doesn't seem to be that multitude of forms being explored
now. You know? Firesign does an album like this. There is no one else
to even pick that up and say, "OK that's a challenge. Here's my
version." You know? I don't know it's… I don't know where to go for
the comedy. I know I enjoy reading a humorist, sometimes. Occasionally
I have a lot of fun making fun of that word. Humorist is kind of
comedy without the laugh. It's just the warm feelings like Dilbert and
Garfield. But a person like Dave Barry is a gifted comic thinker.
Calvin Trillon has his moments. They're on the printed page. But in
answer to general question the state of it is just it's a step child.
It's a poor step child of the other performing arts.
FZ: HAVE YOU THOUGHT ALONG THE LINES OF BRINGING COMEDY ONTO THE WEB
AT ALL?
GC: I have a real nice web page www.georgecarlin.com. It was given a
Cool Site Award, by somebody. It's a great looking site but I don't
get a chance to maintain it. I know how time consuming anything with
that keyboard can be. I have to discipline myself, as it is to get my
other work done. Other things come 1st. Things that give me a lot of
joy and pleasure come 1st. And that's always a part of my work, so it
just has to kind of sit out there. Soon as I get home from some of
these wars and settle down for a few weeks or months and at least have
a chance to at least learn how to get onto my own page, and how to
change it…
FZ: THANKS A LOT GEORGE FOR TALKING WITH US.
GC: I enjoyed every minute of it. Thank you so much.