Amazon lowers price on "Backwards" Firesign book & Special Offer
Freditor
Futture: The Recorded History Of The Firesign Theatre" by Frederick C.
Wiebel, Jr. to a mere $16.83 plus shipping. That's cheaper than I can
get it from the publisher! Plus it's free shipping for orders over $25.
Of course you would still have to send off to the publisher a coupon in
the back of the book to get the data CD "The F Files" that contains a
full searchable discography and hundreds of full color scans of the
records, etc.
I/we still have a few copies of the Author's edition available for $35
ppd. to Firezine PO 585 Hagerstown, MD. They are signed or will be to
you or whomever and come with the F Files disc in a stick-on pocket in
the back of the book.
And so in the entreprenurial spirit, however you spell it, and in the
kindness of his heart, and the sickness of his health and the emptines
of his wallet, Mr. Wiebel is willing to make a literal and hopefully
figurative concession by offering to sign any book that is bought
'elsewhere' if you send it to him with return postage. He will also
fill any request for the F Files CD as long as you send a couple of
bucks for the disc and postage with the book or a xerox of the coupon.
You or anyone else can also get the F Files disc separately for a
limited time for only $5 ppd.
Also in that same spirit, or lack thereof, Firezine is once again for
the first time offering copies of thier fabulous audio sampler.
Here's a blurb:
"THE FIREZINE SAMPLER" - THE FIRESIGN THEATRE - Over 75mins. of
hilarious clips from some of the 20 some Firezine 'releases' of
Firesign related material plus an 'unreleased' 19 min, track of
Phil Proctor reading, in character, his footnotes to the Firesign's
late 90's "Anythynge You Want To" CDRom project that never came
out. This track was to be used by Firezine for "Visit To Planet
Proctor" or as a supplement to "Funnk & Mundaigne: The Firezine
Interview" as they are featured in it.It never was and so is only
available on this sampler. 1 CD $5 ppd
Here is the complete track listing:
THE FIREZINE SAMPLER - FIRESIGN THEATRE
1) INTRO - (2:33) - "Firesign Theatre Live At Westbury" FZ-003
2) CARNATION AD (0:60) - "Firesign's Real Commercial Reel" (no
number)
3) BERGMAN - (2:04) - WEPM Firesign Festival - FZ-001
4) MUTT & SMUTT - (3:17) - "Firesign Live At The Ashgrove" -
FZ-019
5) THE HILARIO SPACEPIPE SHOW - (4:53) - "Martian Space Party
Broadcast" - FZ-020
6) THE BOSUN BOB SHOW - (2:39) - "Joey's House" - FZ-014
7) THE BREAST OF FIRESIGN - (2:34) - "Radio Rarities" -
FZ-015
8) NICK DANGER'S DUDE RANCH - (2:36) - "The Daily Feed
Tapes" FZ-004
9) THANK YOU MR. PRESIDENT - (6:50) - "Ronald Reagan
Assassination Show" FZ-011
10) PROCTOR - (1:44) - "WEPM Firesign Festival" FZ-001
11) RALPH SPOILSPORT - (1:37) - "Visit To Planet Proctor"
FZ-007
12) P&B AT THE PLAYBOY CLUB - (3:13) - "On The Road" FZ-005
13) AUSTIN - (1:53) - "WEPM Firesign Festival" - FZ-001
14) NEWS LEAK - (3:11) - "TV Or Not TV Live" - FZ-017
15) ALTERNATIVE ROSE PARADE - (6:25) - "The Alternative Rose
Parade"
FZ-015
16) OSSMAN - (1:42) - "WEPM Firesign Festival" FZ-001
17) TIREBITER & FUNNK & MUNDAIGNE - (3:19) - "The Firezine
Interview" FZ-006
18) OUTRO - (3:46) - "In The Firezone" - FZ-008
UNRELEASED BONUS CUT
19) FOOTNOTES TO ANYTHYNGE YOU WANT TO (19:17)
This can either be purchased on e-bay or directly from Firezine.
Paypal using FredWiebelAtAolDotCom
or buy sending a money order to
Firezine PO Box 585 Hagerstown, MD 21741-0585
Thanks again,
Freditor
Freditor
I received this message from David Ossman:
>>>>>>
PLEASE BE AWARE THAT YOUR OFFERING OF ANOTHER BOOTLEG FIRESIGN CD IS IN
VIOLATION OF MY OWNERSHIP OF MY PERFORMANCES AND NUMEROUS COPYRIGHTS.
YOU
ARE TO TAKE THIS CD OFF THE MARKET IMMEDIATELY. I ASSURE YOU, ACTION
WILL
BE TAKEN TO PROTECT THE WORK OF THE FIRESIGN THEATRE AND THE INTEGRITY
OF
THE GROUP'S OWN PLANS WITH RESPECT TO OUR MATERIAL.
OSSMAN
>>>>>>
Naturally I don't agree with him as each item on the CD was approved
for Firezine usage and was actually previously put out, all but the
last cut, and some by Firesign themselves.
In spite of all that, I am withdrawing the "Firezine Sampler" offer out
of respect for Mr. Ossman's wishes, mis-directed as they may be.
Luckily no actual sales were generated by this announcement. I had the
Firezine sales page taken down at Mr. Ossman's request several years
ago. Again I didn't agree with him but I did it anyway.
I feel that Firezine has every right to issue thier owned approved
recordings. I've offered them to Firesign to re-issue on their own
label, through Lodestone and Laugh.com. They were not interested. I
offered to pay royalties off all our sales but was turned down. Our
sales through Lodestone gave Firesign more royalties than were to be
paid to Firezine. Our Amazon.com sales through Lodestone were never
reported to us and royalties never paid to us. Firezine was also
cheated out of several years of Lodestone sales royalties. I repeatedly
tried to work out an agreement to settle the account but no action was
ever taken.
Firezine eventually was saddled with $12,000 in debt and I'm the one
that was legally obligated to pay it off. I did so last year by
borrowing money on my house to bring the debt rate.down from 33% to 7%,
where it now stands
I want to apologize to anyone who bought Firezine products under what
they might now think as false pretenses. I never felt that I violated
any agreements or trust with Firesign Theatre. The reverse can not be
said.
If you have any comments for me or Mr. Ossman or anyone about all of
this I would certainly aprreciate it.
Fred
John Weber
purchased the Lodestone web site and name a little over two years ago
from its original president, Richard Fish, who operated it and other
ventures under the banner of Lodestone Media.
In his post, Fred Wiebel makes statements regarding "Lodestone" which
could appear to slander the company, and which I feel require some
clarification.
Fred published seven issues of a Firesign fanzine for a period during
the late 90's. In order to defray expenses, Firesign allowed Fred to
sell several CDs of material owned directly by the Firesign Theatre.
He, arranged, with Firesign's permission, with Mr Fish, to sell some of
these copies through the catalog. After a subsequent falling out,
Firesign requested Fred to cease selling these titles, and also
requested Mr. Fish to cease selling these titles on behalf of Mr.
Wiebel.
Subsequent to this, Mr. Fish collaborated with The Firesign Theatre on
a national release and distribution of several titles (not related to
Firezine). Although they sold out, the distributor did not pay Mr
Fish, or The Firesign Theatre, anything for copies sold. Lodestone
Media, having funded the manufacturing and other expenses for the
release, was left deeply in debt. Unable to purchase new stock, the
catalog went into a period of decline, and eventually Lodestone Media
folded. Because of this, Mr Fish was left broke, in debt to many
people, including Firesign and Mr Wiebel. Mr Fish is currently
attempting to sell his house to pay off loans and debts owed from the
business.
In 2004, I purchased the site, and established new relations with many
producers and suppliers of audio theater, including Firesign. I have
attempted to expand the offerings, and do what I can to serve audio
theater fans, and Firesign fans in particular. I have worked with
Firesign to make several releases available as well as shirts and
merchandise. And, although Firesign has requested I not carry the CDs
of their material from Fred, I gladly chose to carry his book, which
contains no copyrighted scripts or performances, and even chose to
carry an ad in the back of the book.
I feel Fred's statements, such as, "Firezine was also cheated out of
several years of Lodestone sales royalties" is potentially misleading,
without the context, and that the word "cheated" is potentially
slanderous of Mr. Fish. However, I wish Fred luck, and hope he can
recover the expenses incurred publishing his fanzine.
-- John Weber
President, Lodestone Catalog.
Freditor
John Weber wrote:
> I feel Fred's statements, such as, "Firezine was also cheated out of
> several years of Lodestone sales royalties" is potentially misleading,
> without the context, and that the word "cheated" is potentially
> slanderous of Mr. Fish. However, I wish Fred luck, and hope he can
> recover the expenses incurred publishing his fanzine.
>
> -- John Weber
> President, Lodestone Catalog.
Sorry John, you have acted very nicely with me and I commend your
actions.
I should have stated the old Lodestone, and more specifically More
Sugar and that my comments, though bitter and filtered through a blind
rage, should not reflect the current operation. I think they are doing
a fine job. I would not have allowed them to advertise in my book or
have placed an availability notice on the F Files disc, if I did not
want fans to buy Firesign products directly from them.
Actually, I blame Firesign Theatre personally for not making sure that
royalties were paid in a timely manner. I repeatedly asked for their
help in resolving the problem and nothing was ever done. I made the
deal with them through Lodestone.
I do feel we/Firezine/me, whoever, were cheated. Cheated meaning our
products were manufactured and sold without an accounting and no
royalty payments paid after a certain time when they were supposed to
be. Also they were offered on Amazon.com without my knowledge. None of
those sales were reported to me nor royalties paid. Some are still
listed on Amazon as unavailable.
Whether or not these actions were deliberate, only a few people know,
me not being one of them.
I offered the Firezine Productions to re-issued by the new Loadstone to
pay off the old debt. Firesign refused.
Will this ever be settled? Probably not. Does anybody else care but me,
probably not.
Sorry John. I didn't mean to drag you into this and I publicly
apologize.
Sorry Fans. I'm out!
Freditor
By the way, your explanation sounds great but your facts are off,
especially so far as dates go.
We stopped receiving royalties way over a year or two before any
Whirlwind deal was ever made. It and the problems incurred had nothing
to do with the Firezine deal. Our money was collected from sales. We
never got it.
I was the one that requested More Sugar stop making Firezine CDs
because no accounts were given and royalties were not being paid.
What Firesign did about it or directed, I was not privy to
More Sugar manufactured 5 Firezine Cds:
In The Firezone
Anytown USA
Nick Danger The Daily Feed Tapes
Fighting Clowns Live
Firesign Theatre's Alternative Rose Parade
At one point our CDs outsold all other Lodestone products. We were very
proud of that fact and that we were generating royalties to Firesign
Theatre who got more than we/Firezine did.
Sorry.
Freditor
> sell several CDs of material owned directly by the Firesign Theatre.
> He, arranged, with Firesign's permission, with Mr Fish, to sell some of
> these copies through the catalog. After a subsequent falling out,
> Firesign requested Fred to cease selling these titles, and also
> requested Mr. Fish to cease selling these titles on behalf of Mr.
> Wiebel.
For those who are so bored to actually read all this bullshit, namely
me.
I should be dead now but somehow feel compelled to write all this down.
Now when they read my postponed eulogy it can be noted, "Though he felt
wronged, buttons pushed, full of disease and mind fogged by pain and
disillusion the stubborn Mr. Wiebel, typed long into the night trying
to clear his name and reputation. His body was found clutching at the
broken straws holding his damaged heart together. These were among his
last words posted.
Here I go again....
Firesign never owned the recordings we offered. Firezine was selling
them long before the More Sugar deals. I did that so that Firesign
Theatre would get royalties.
The falling out was a direct result of the non-payment of Firezine's
royalties, not the other way around. The Firezine/Firesign fallout
occurred around 9/11 because I panned The Bride Of Firesign in this
newsgroup. That had nothing to do with More Sugar who had stopped
paying royalties over a year before.
As for the ownership of the recordings:
I recorded "In The Firezone" with Doc Tech on DAT and cassette. Peter
Bergman requested me to come out to Seattle and record and film all the
shows, which I did, and put it out for Firezine. All of the others
agreed as well. I have the master tapes. Firezine paid all the
expenses.
Anytown USA was recorded by Alan Gross in 1975 with permission from
Firesign. He gave the rights to Firezine. Firesign allowed us to put
together the CD for Firezine sales. I paid to have the transfer done.
I edited it. I have the master discs. Alan has the master tape.
Fighting Clowns Live was recorded in 1981 by John Dryden and Mark Tryon
with Firesign's permission. We were there also with our deck for an
interview and Phil Austin asked if we wanted to record the show. I
pieced together the CD from 3 tapes. Firesign allowed me to do that for
Firezine and later More Sugar. I paid all expenses. Tryon has his
masters, I still have John Dryden's cassette.
Nick Danger: The Daily Feed Tapes; the original basics were recorded by
Phil Austin on a tape deck John Dryden sent him and he was paid $300 an
episode. John owned the rights to them and he and I painstakingly
salvaged and edited them all together. We spent 40 studio hours on it.
Wayne Newitt indexed the CDs. John gave me the rights to the material.
I paid all expenses. I own the master reel to reel tapes.
The Alternative Rose Parade, I had Andy Thomas record it for Firezine
off the KPFK board on DAT with permission from Firesign. I had it
transferred to disc and did all the editing,etc. I have the basic DAT
and the master disc.
All of these CDs were developed with Firesign's permission to help pay
down Firezine's debts. Every check for Firezine products was made out
to Firezine and must be deposited in the Firezine account. $12,000 is
still owed. I borrowed money on my house and paid off the Friezine
credit card which was 33% interest. It's now 7%.
And I'm 33% of what I used to be and 7% of what I should be.
The beat goes on......
poau...@pacbell.net
I owned and still own all the Daily Feed scripts and performances, that
was my deal with John Dryden, who shared those rights with me. Please
cease your incredible inflation of my initial compensation and your
obfuscation of John's relations with me. How can you try to steal this
material and these performances from me? How much hate have you got in
you? Why don't you provide me, right now, with some written deal
between you and John Dryden that gives you ownership of anything having
to do with the Daily Feed tapes? If you try to say that you have some
kind of spoken deal with John, I'll call him immediately and report the
results of that conversation here. His deal with me was that - no
matter what the usage - I retained all ownership. I gave you and him
permission - a license - for the copies sold by Lodestone, but that' s
all. It was non-exclusive and limited, as you well know. For you to
imply otherwise is troubling, to say the least.
And I think we might ask your partner and benefactor Chris Palladino
for his opinions as to the messy finances you seem so certain about. In
my dealings with you, Chris was the responsible financial partner and
the one responsible for the credit card.
I'm truly sorry to hear about your ill health and personally wish you
and yours all the best.
Austin
Freditor
Here are the facts Mr. Austin.
Firezine put out the Daily Feed tapes years before More Sugar. So your
"exclusive limited deal" with Lodestone is a non-existant fantasy. And
very troubling in deed and fact.
Firezine put it out as cassettes and a limited edition 2 CD box set in
which you wrote the liner notes and signed 100 inserts.
Firezine then released a regular indexed 2 CD set.
More Sugar released their version a year or so later and it out sold
all other product in the catalog.
A quote from page 112 of my book, "Backwards Into The Future" which is
also on tape:
Here a line or tow from the Daily Feed section:
Austin: "John Dryden has collected them: He is the owner of them. He
owns the performances of them. I own the material, the stuff itself."
I took "material" to mean 'the writing'. You had no problem with us
doing the project which was approved way in advance. Otherwise we
wouldn't have spent 40 hours in the studio working on them.
Please call John if you want to disturb him. If you want the phone
number, I'll send it to you. I have the original master reels which
John and I put together. He gave them to me to use for Firezine. In
other words, the rights to the recordings which he owned. I'm not
contesting your copyrights on the material which you never copyrighted
anyway. At least it wasn't on the LOC website last time I checked.
That's why you were paid royalties by More Sugar, if not all that you
were supposed to get, $6 per unit sold. $5.30 more than you were
entitled to. I have receipts with notations of your early quarterly
payments. One of them has 90 copies sold on it. That's $540. Thank you,
you're welcome.
There is no signed paper with John and Firezine. I have the master
reels.
Do you have a signed contract with John Dryden and More Sugar? I'd love
to see it. When I tried to get signed contracts with More Sugar, I was
refused.
I was told by john that you were paid $300 per episode.If that is a
false memory, then I'm sorry. I was impressed with the amount as there
were 52 episodes.
I had the credit card in my name, it still is. Chris was on the
Firezine bank account with me. He bowed out in 2000 and his name is no
longer on the account.
Most of our financial problems were a direct result of Firesign Theatre
not living up to the agreements we made. No papers were signed. That's
not the way you do things is it?
If you want the Daily Feed recordings, which I offered before and you
turned down, let me know.
Now please, stop making false statements about me trying to cover your
image and the nasty shit you pulled on me. Yes, there was a lot of hate
because you caused me financial ruin and put me through hell. That
wasn't part of any of our agreements.
If want to continue to make a fool out of yourself with your clever
lies in a public forum please do so. Please ruin what little respect is
left out there for you. Please continue to cause me embarrassment by
making me respond to your silly postings, the first I ever remember you
making in this news group after what 10 years.
This is just the kind of thing I need to make me feel alive again.
Fred
Earl Truss
"Freditor" <fredw...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1154460379.1...@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
> Hiya Pals,
>
> I received this message from David Ossman:
>
I think it was a bad idea to bring this squabble into the newsgroup. Maybe
you guys should take this to email and leave the rest of us out of it.
dj
news:3kcAg.173$Kj...@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
I don't find it pleasant, but it sure seems to qualify for inclusion here,
my few cents, if they choose to do so.
dj
Earl Truss
"dj" <drja...@spam.yahoo.remove.com> wrote in message
news:-o2dnQw-eoBW9kzZ...@comcast.com...
will never see any proof for from either side. It just breeds mistrust and
bad feelings. We can't choose sides based on any rational logic.
Bill Benzel
:
: "Freditor" <fredw...@aol.com> wrote in message
:
I disagree, Earl. I find this fascinating theatre. I do, however,
expect resolutuion to occur sometime in the near future -- one of those
great breakthroughs where years of hate over some misunderstanding
suddenly vanish.
So far the message taken from the play so far is never rely on verbal
agreements -- both parties leave the exchange with different
perceptions of what was said and heard. That's why we have contract
lawyers....
Anyway, I'm hoping the guys will keep talking this through and let me
watch their progress. They may be antagonistic toward each other at the
moment but I sense they also respect each other enough to work this out.
--
Bill
AT DOT
reply to bbenzel adelphia net
Bill Benzel
:
: "dj" <drja...@spam.yahoo.remove.com> wrote in message
:
You don't need to choose sides -- just watch as it plays out. This is
not a schoolyard fist fight -- quality people like Fred and Phil don't
get into something like this unless they see that it might lead to
resolution of their differences.
At least that's how I see it.
I'm on both sides.
v8juice
wrote:
>What good does it do anyone?
Well, it's pretty boring here in Idaho, this qualifies as
entertainment for me...
Freditor
> You don't need to choose sides -- just watch as it plays out. This is
> not a schoolyard fist fight -- quality people like Fred and Phil don't
> get into something like this unless they see that it might lead to
> resolution of their differences.
>
> At least that's how I see it.
>
That's the entire problem, lack of communication, not only between Fred
and the group but between the group themselves. One would tell me to do
one thing and then months later another would bitch me out for it when
they found out.
I hadn't heard from Phil Austin in 5 years or Ossman in 2, except to
get yelled at.
I got no response from any of them about the book, "Backwards Into The
Future: The Recorded History of The Firesign Theatre" available from
multiple places at various prices
particularly by going to FirezineDotNet.
What is reality?
Money, money, money!!!!!!
And what did that horrible theif Fred and the Firezine crew do for
Firesign Theatre?
Having going through what I've gone through in the last couple of
months and almost dying, I certainly want to justify, somehow, all the
time, years and effort and finances that took away from my 'own'
artwork, writing and projects and such that I devoted to Firesign
Theatre.
Was it for the money? Hardly. I ended up owing $12,000. I was given a
unique opportunity that I certainly couldn't resist being involved in
and using my 'peculiar talents' whatever they were/are. They asked me
for help! I never got a salary or any money from Firesign. I was
supposed to be "taken care of". That I was all right.
The Firesign Theatre wasn't even talking with each other when I got
involved. I felt very bad about that and did everything I could to get
them back on track. Phil Austin called me his right arm at one point. I
thought we all had developed something that was beyond friendship.
I took great pride in puting out the magazine, websites, magazine
articles, publicity material for Rhino, and facilitating their careers,
come back and re-issues of the classics and much more behind the scenes
finaggaling that is never mentioned or even considered or remembered
now. Yeah, I made some money off the articles but never off the Rhino
publicity. They used my material for their press releases. I even got
stiffed on the printing and mailing costs.
Just think of it, 3 Rhino CDs, a DVDA and a DVD, 3 Whirlwind CDs, 4
Sony CDs, 12 Laugh.com CDs. All Things Firesign CD, 22 Firezine CDs, 12
XM radio shows, a batch of NPR, BBC, radio, 2 or 3 concert tours, etc.,
etc., etc.
How much total money in sales was generated by those things?
We all had a great part in that and it never would have happened
without us!
I hope that Firesign Theatre realizes that!
Chris Palladino and I always had a joke that the Firesign hated me
because I got them back together and forced them to work with each
other again. Ha, ha, ha. My revenge!
When the Firezine magazine was having financial problems I took
advantage of that to get Firesign Theatre to allow us put out the CDs.
They even sent me tapes to use! I felt very good about salvaging 'lost'
recordings and turning them into products that made money for Firesign
and gave the fans what they really wanted, more recordings! That became
my prime directive because the group stopped supplying written material
for the last 4 issues of the magazine that I was obligated to print. I
wasn't willing to ghost write material for them. It was bad enough that
I had to piece together articles "written" by them, dubbed from tapes.
That was OK. But I wouldn't write things for them 'to mouth' as they do
now. I am not Firesign Theatre and don't pretend to be. They agreed to
allow us to put out the CDs to pay off the debts. Of course a lot of
the money was plowed back into the CD productions.
As for the recordings, take the latest post by Austin in the newsgroup.
He's accussing me of stealing his performances of the Daily Feed. The
facts are I salvaged them from oblivion, turned them into a product
that not only generated thousands of dollars for him, but Lodestone and
Firezine and he holds that against me? I personally didn't get any
money out of it. But I do have the master tapes.
They don't want those Firezine recordings in print because they would
have to give me some money?
Weird but not cool.
Firesign got payments from More Sugar for the Firezine Productions, I
saw the notations on one of the accounting sheets.
I would love to know what the real totals were that Firezine products
made for Lodestone. How much total money did Firezine CDs generate for
Lodestone?
Did they take that money and finance the Whirlwind CDs as John suggests
in his post? Then good. If I was asked to use our money to finance more
CDs, I would have gladly said yes, if we were part of the deal.
3 Firezine CDs were supposed to be a part of the Whirlwind deal. I did
a lot of work re-designing the covers and such. Eventually it was down
to just "In The Firezone". What did Ossman offer me for compensation?
25 autographed copies! I said, "Wow, I can put them on the shelf next
to the 25 autographed copies of "Give Me Immortality" and 40
autographed copies of "Fighting Clowns" I can't give away." I never
heard any more about it until the Cds came out, ours not among them. Of
course our photos were used for the graphics without acknowledgement or
permission.
I was told by Ossman in an e-mail that they got ripped off $40,000 on
that deal.
But what that really can mean is that because of some of the money from
Firezine's products they were able to generate $40,000 in sales or
royalties?
I like to look at it that way.Of course that makes it all the worse
that they treated me/Firezine so arbitarily.
So you tell me if any 'fan' or outsiders ever did anything like that
for them?
Well, I can't go on as I'm getting pissed off.
later,
Fred
Thomas Armagost
"Freditor" <fredw...@aol.com> wrote:
> I hadn't heard from Phil Austin in 5 years or Ossman in 2,
> except to get yelled at.
Fred, you're missing the point. It's THEIR WORK. How can they
possibly be wrong about this? They have INSTINCTS. TRUST THEM.
Sorry, now I'm yelling, too. I'll toggle off "caps lock."
> So you tell me if any 'fan' or outsiders ever did anything like
> that for them?
I'm your mother. Slaving over a hot stove. Do you have any idea
how hard it is to raise siamese quadruplets? And what thanks do I
get? You never write, you never call.
Does anyone remember Shakespeare's mother? Beethoven's mother? Go
ahead and soak up the applause, Mr. Big Shot Comedy Genius. Don't
give a thought to the mother whose heart you broke.
Be that as it may. Brian "Merlyn" Westley and Thomas "Doctec" O'Neill
deserve credit for launching FST.com and Glutamoto... A cyberspace
embrace. Without Merlyn and Doctec, the heroic struggle of the little
people to finish the website would have died in vain.
--
<http://www.well.com/user/silly/firesign.html>
"Don't forget to register to vote" - Frank Zappa
Freditor
> Fred, you're missing the point. It's THEIR WORK. How can they
> possibly be wrong about this? They have INSTINCTS. TRUST THEM.
>
I did trust them, that was the problem.
You are missing the point too. Of course I don't blame you and all the
other fans who have dissed me because they don't know the facts, if
there are any anymore.
I did a lot of work and spent a lot of money on those products with
their permission to raise funds to pay off the Firezine debts. Well
they weren't paid off yet and still aren't.
That's my point, besides the top of my head, that is.
The magazine was a joint effort. It was Firesign Theatre magazine, not
a Fred Wiebel magazine. It was an outlet for Firesign writing and
whatever they wanted. That was the only way I could or would do it.
That was all agreed upon by all 4 members directly. I met with Proctor,
Bergman and Ossman in NYC after the Big Internet Broadcast. Austin, of
course, over the phone.
I certainly was not interested in doing a "fanzine' or newsletter.
Elayne was doing that kind of thing. I wanted to get above that. I
would never have done anything like that. We sort of carried on that
tradition in a transitional way for the 1st couple of issues. We were
told by Elayne that she had 2,500 paid subscribers. In reality it was
more like 125. We got 25 carry over subscribers from Falafal. We never
did get the mailing list from her. I never would have even started the
whole affair if I hadn't been lied to about those huge subscriber
figures. I got More Sugar's mailing list and had Phil Austin write and
sign cover letters. We built that 25 up to 1,000 at one point.
The entire Firezine thing became synonymous with me because I was
running the show.
I am not Firezine.
That screwed me in the long run as I ended up with all the bills when
everyone else copped out. I wanted to take down the website but Lew
talked me out of it and I became the behind the scenes director, like
Fatty Arbuckle without the ice cubes or coke bottle.
The whole problem began when I panned "Bride Of Firesign".
My work with the Firesign slowed down my 'career'. I did it for a lark
and I got the bird all right.
I didn't make any money off it. I wasn't looking for fame or fortune.
It was supposed to be fun and it was for a long time. Some of the most
fun and enjoyable moments of my life. Also the biggest disappointment
and that's saying something.
I've printed my own magazines before in the 70's and 80's, "The
National Zerographic" to name one and lots of little art magazines,
booklets and such, so I had a little experience in putting a magazine
together.
Look I sold over a 1,000 copies of my "Edison's Frankenstein" book that
I wote, designed, printed and sold myself. I helped find, restore,
facilitate and produce music for a DVD release of Edison's 1910
"Frankenstein" film. Over 1,200 copies of that were sold.
We sold over 1,700 copies of my 2003 graphic novel project with
Simpson's comic book writer Chris Yambar and artist Rob Bihun,
"Frankenstein 1910". It sold out. I have all the remaining copies. No
you can't have one.
The most Firezine CDs we sold of one item was 125 copies, when we had
about 1,000 subscribers. Most of them sold in the 10 - 35 copy range.
OK?
I sold 80 copies of my Firesign book.
I've done film lectures and showings at colleges and universities, film
conventions in CA, NYC, PA, OH, MD. DC.
I got a letter of commendation from the head of the Library Of Congress
for my work on Frankenstein.
I've had numerous articles and drawings published in national and
regional magazines and books including FilmFax, Outre', Discoveries,
Cool and Strange Music, Blue Feathers, Midnight Marquee's "We Belong
Dead", etc.
My Bix Beiderbecke Bust was a $20,000 project in the 70's. I was given
the key to the city of Davenport, IA at their annual jazz Festival.
20,000 people were in attendance and hundreds of thousands were
watching live on IA PBS and in numerous replays.
More people have seen me on TV than the Firesign theatre! Of course I
was one of 200 other musicians in the marching band when we did
numerous Redskins and Colts football games with millions of viewers
worldwide. Millions saw me on TV march by President Nixon in the Triple
A parade.
Nixon's AF1 helicopter personally buzzed me when I gave him the finger
near Camp David in the MD mountains.
I've planted pot on the White House lawn.
My paintings have sold for thousands of dollars each.Some are on
display in museums.
I've won numerous awards in art contests and exhibitions. I've had one
person art shows on the east coast and midwest.
My wife and I did the craft fair circuit for 15 years making a living.
She's a wood carver and I helped with the designs and wood work. She
has done restorations in Historic buildings in DC, contract work for
the homes of Lew Azinga(?), owner of the Miami dolphins, Donald Trump,
whoever that is, and other rich assholes around the country.
I've even had some of my little wooden Christmas ornaments hung on the
White House Xmas tree!
I was on the radio off and on for 20 years doing specialty programming.
My "Radio Ooze" novelty/comedy Dr. Demento type show was broadcast,
picked up and beamed around the world on Armed Forces Radio. There were
18 or so episodes.
I had a 6 hour blues radio show where I personally recorded live shows
and interviews for my broadcasts including such people as John Mayall,
John Hammond, Otis Rush, Honey Boy Edwards (friend of Robert Johnson)
Robert Jr. Lockwood, step son of Robert Johnson, Pinetop Perkins,
Luther Allison, Bernard Allison, Gatemouth Brown, Cephus and Wiggins,
Hot Tuna, Earl King, John Jackson, Rory Block, The Nighthawks, Dan
Hicks and His Hot Licks, and many many more local and regional bands.
All of the above sell far more recordings than Firesign ever will. I
also have the masters and rights to all of those recordings.
I did some album cover work for small jazz labels for Colemam Hawkins,
Jack Teagarden, Bix Beiderbecke and others.
I've failed at more things than you can guess. No wonder I'm tired.
I've forgotten a lot of things and even why I'm mentioning all this but
boy I feel a lot better all of the sudden, like I actually was someone,
not some whinning victum. Thanks for pushing my buttons.
Look I don't like this shit anymore than you do! I hate it. But by Grid
I'm not going to allow anyone to smear me, calling me a liar and a
thief, making up stories to fit into a justified memory of events that
never were.
Just one look at that old credit card bill is all the memory I need. It
doesn't lie.
> Be that as it may. Brian "Merlyn" Westley and Thomas "Doctec" O'Neill
> deserve credit for launching FST.com and Glutamoto... A cyberspace
> embrace. Without Merlyn and Doctec, the heroic struggle of the little
> people to finish the website would have died in vain.
Yes, and who set them up to do just that?
The Freditor.
The site was already up but nothing was happening with it. I think the
Cephlopod people did it or ?. It had a statement that read something
like : "Something mysterious is going to happen", it didn't. Phil
Austin and I worked out a plan to get it doing something. Phil made me
the front man. I brought in Doc Tech and then we got Brian Westley
involved. He and Tom did all the code work etc. I was more of the 'idea
man". I forget exactly how Doc Tech and I got together but I certainly
admired his work. Brian I met in MPLS at one of Ossman's workshops. I
did a lot of design work on the site too, some of my direct stuff is
still up in the RadioNow section and I certainly made numerous annoying
suggestions. DT & BW wanted the site to be more of a "game". I thought
that was the wrong approach and so did Phil Austin. The Firezine site
and FT.com were combined. Firezine to be the fan site and ft.com to
more of a direct Firesign Theatre happening. The guys were hardly
involved with it at all for a very long time.
Tom did a lot of great work on the Firezine site and on the "In The
Firezone" CD.
Brian is the unsung hero. There will be a statue to him in the Firesign
Hall Of Fame that we will all worship. I'll be the sacrifical lamb.
Fred
PS: Ok, who's next to jump into the ring in this battle royal!
Thomas Armagost
"Freditor" <fredw...@aol.com> wrote:
> Thomas Armagost wrote:
>> Fred, you're missing the point. It's THEIR WORK. How can they
>> possibly be wrong about this? They have INSTINCTS. TRUST THEM.
>
> I did trust them, that was the problem.
You and I couldn't possibly begin to understand their motive for
yanking material. We have to trust their instincts. This is more
than just a minor business dispute. This is about their image. This
is about their legacy. No one knows how to handle that better than
they do.
To paraphrase Chevy Chase, "We're the Firesign Theatre--and you're
not."
Why not ask FST if they'll let you donate some of their stuff to
libraries for a write-off? Consider donating copies of your book,
too. I'm hoping that academic institutions with scholarly researchers
will be interested.
> You are missing the point too. Of course I don't blame you and all
> the other fans who have dissed me because they don't know the facts
Dude, I'm not dissing you. I like you. I'm just teasing. This is a
comedy newsgroup, remember? Comedy Central just roasted William
Shatner--you're in good company.
> I did a lot of work and spent a lot of money on those products with
> their permission to raise funds to pay off the Firezine debts.
Was it a verbal agreement? A gentleman's agreement? If so, it's cool
if they change their mind, IMHO. Especially because so much time has
transpired. Do you have a written contract granting you exclusive
rights to that material until the end of time?
> I certainly was not interested in doing a "fanzine' or newsletter.
> Elayne was doing that kind of thing. I wanted to get above that.
Elayne may or may not allow you to get above her.
I was thinking of Elaine May when I wrote that "I'm your mother"
stuff.
> The whole problem began when I panned "Bride Of Firesign".
Did you try to give them a neck rub?
> Tom [O'Neill] did a lot of great work on the Firezine site and on
> the "In The Firezone" CD.
>
> Brian [Westley] is the unsung hero.
You and I agree on something.
> I'll be the sacrifical lamb.
You're the roast lamb.
> PS: Ok, who's next to jump into the ring in this battle royal!
"Thank you very much [Boney]... You'll be receiving a handsome
simulfax copy of your question in e-mail soon, and my reply."
[polite applause]
Freditor
Thomas Armagost wrote:
This is more
> than just a minor business dispute. This is about their image. This
> is about their legacy. No one knows how to handle that better than
> they do.
Uh, I don't think so. This WAS a business dispute.
Firezine was their magazine, not mine. We made agreements to fund it. I
spent money and work with those agreements in mind. This has nothing to
do with image but petty revenge on their part for me dissing Bride. If
that's what it may boil down to.
They made agreeements with Columbia records who put up the money to
produce records. Could Firesign stop them from releasing them after
they'd been on the market for years? Of course they had contracts.
>
> To paraphrase Chevy Chase, "We're the Firesign Theatre--and you're
> not."
Exactly my point fella. I never intended to be or could ever be or
pretned to be. I refused to go into more debt by printing Fireszine
without their input and content.
>
> Why not ask FST if they'll let you donate some of their stuff to
> libraries for a write-off? Consider donating copies of your book,
> too. I'm hoping that academic institutions with scholarly researchers
> will be interested.
I am donating copies to my local library as I have all my other books.
OK big mouth, why don't you poney up to Amazon and buy a bunch of the
books and dontae them yourself?
> > Was it a verbal agreement? A gentleman's agreement? If so, it's cool
> if they change their mind, IMHO. Especially because so much time has
> transpired. Do you have a written contract granting you exclusive
> rights to that material until the end of time?
We had a printed history of their magazine pal.
> Elayne may or may not allow you to get above her.
She doesn't appeal to me and neither do you.
>
> Did you try to give them a neck rub?
Have you tried suicide?
>
> You're the roast lamb.
and you are the result of a bad meal gone south
There, that was the funny remark for the comedy.
Of course I don't mean it.
Imaghast
Thomas Armagost
"Freditor" <fredw...@aol.com> wrote:
> Thomas Armagost wrote:
>> This is more than just a minor business dispute. This is about
>> their image. This is about their legacy. No one knows how to
>> handle that better than they do.
>
> Uh, I don't think so. This WAS a business dispute.
> Firezine was their magazine, not mine. We made agreements to fund
> it. I spent money and work with those agreements in mind. This has
> nothing to do with image but petty revenge on their part for me
> dissing Bride. If that's what it may boil down to.
Maybe it's not the fact that you dissed Bride of Firesign--maybe it's
the way that you dissed it. Could it be that you violated their
personal space? That's why the neck rub joke.
Don't feel bad. Giving siamese quadruplets a neck rub would be
problematic anyway.
>> Was it a verbal agreement? A gentleman's agreement? If so, it's
>> cool if they change their mind, IMHO. Especially because so much
>> time has transpired. Do you have a written contract granting you
>> exclusive rights to that material until the end of time?
>
> We had a printed history of their magazine pal.
Printed history = Written contract? What are the terms of the
contract?
>> You're the roast lamb.
Fat in the fire. Ssssss.
> and you are the result of a bad meal gone south
You ate something that didn't agree with you.
> There, that was the funny remark for the comedy.
>
> Of course I don't mean it.
>
> Imaghast
Omigosh.
It's not in vain, Fred. The Firezine website is weirdly cool. It
will continue to be weirdly cool even if no new content is added to
it.
--
<http://www.well.com/user/silly/firesign.html>
"That's showbiz, big boy" - Chrissie Hynde
Freditor
> It's not in vain, Fred. The Firezine website is weirdly cool. It
> will continue to be weirdly cool even if no new content is added to
> it.
Thanks...
Actually, there are plans to revive it.
I would like to add a lot of archival stuff.
Also portions of the book and F Files.
I also want to publicly thank you for supplying some audio for one of
the Firezine CDs. I think you sent the "History Of The Art Of Radio"
from the Airlie conference for the Radio Rarities CD.Your copy was far
superior in sound from the bad dub we had. Ossman's original cassette
tape had broken. So in other words, you brought something to the fans
and the group that was "lost". That was in the same spirit that many
others had shown contributing recordings from their personal
collections.
( You didn't feel that way at the time and I hope that hasn't
contributed to these snide remarks in your posts )
Unfortunately that was one of the CD sets that got canned shortly after
production. I still have a spool of them. Alan Gross had supplied a
cassette tape that David sent him in the '70s with other 'clips' from
the Hour Hour show and the original Let's Eat sampler reel that Ossman
put together, now lost. He and I laid out that CD and it was announced
months before in the Current news section of the Firezine website along
with the other new Firezine CDs that I produced. It also had the Magic
Mushroom broadcast of "A Life In The Day" play eventually developed
into "Dwarf", a seminal Firesign Theatre work.
It was a very good CD set with top rate material.
I can't possibly see how that could present them with a bad image as
you suggest.
I can take some ribbing but please refrain from attacking me from
ignorance of the facts that you were not privy to in my dealings with
the group.
I know that you and a lot of fans blindly and automatically want to
defend Firesign because of our love for the group and the material and
the special place it holds in our hearts and minds. I do too. That's
why it is so difficult to understand and accept what happened. I can't.
We had a plan that was just starting to work. Issues 6 & 7 were paid
for by the Firezine CDs without borrowing any new money.
I was working on Issue 8, which was centered around "The Alternative
Rose Parade". The cover was posted on the website eventually. With the
lack of Firesign articles I was going to 'take' transcriptions from the
broadcast. I also had a sheet of pre-written material from Ossman that
he wasn't able to chim in with during the broadcast.
After they 'shut down' the CDs that I had already produced and
manufactured for the holiday season, I decided to call it quits. I felt
I let down our subscribers and the many fans I felt that I represented
to the group.
Some of this is kind of explained in the nicest way possible in the
book, "Backwards Into The Future: The Recorded History of The Firesign
Theatre." And I worked through all the hate and poison that had built
up in my system.
There are some missing pieces in the puzzle that I think it's best not
bring up in a public forum even in this limited newsgroup.
When I'm attacked and smeared, especially for things that never
happend, I do have to defend myself. I can't resist.
I can accept that I made some grave errors in judgement.
Unfortunately I also have to accept the $12,000 bill.
Fred
Thomas Armagost
"Freditor" <fredw...@aol.com> wrote:
> I also want to publicly thank you for supplying some audio for
> one of the Firezine CDs. I think you sent the "History Of The
> Art Of Radio" from the Airlie conference for the Radio Rarities
> CD.
Nope. I sure didn't. I've never even heard of the Airlie conference.
I've never sent anything to you other than a check that I sent to your
P.O. Box when I ordered some FST stuff. Hey, at least I'm a happy
customer.
Freditor
Thomas Armagost wrote:
> In message <1154836236.4...@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> "Freditor" <fredw...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > I also want to publicly thank you for supplying some audio for
> > one of the Firezine CDs. I think you sent the "History Of The
> > Art Of Radio" from the Airlie conference for the Radio Rarities
> > CD.
>
> Nope. I sure didn't.
Whoops. Sorry about that. Must have been a similar name.
Well thanks anwyway whoever it was.
And thank you too Tom for prompting me to make a fool out of myself.
Back to the shadows, hopefully for a long time.......
> "Don't forget to register to vote" - Frank Zappa
"And then don't forget to vote"
Thomas Armagost
"Freditor" <fredw...@aol.com> wrote:
>>> I also want to publicly thank you for supplying some audio for
>>> one of the Firezine CDs. I think you sent the "History Of The
>>> Art Of Radio" from the Airlie conference for the Radio Rarities
>>> CD.
>
>> Nope. I sure didn't.
>
> Whoops. Sorry about that. Must have been a similar name.
Hey, my dad is a Bix Beiderbecke fan. Maybe he sent you that audio.
> Well thanks anwyway whoever it was.
>
> And thank you too Tom for prompting me to make a fool out of
> myself.
"Once there was a friend of mine
Who died a thousand deaths
His life was filled with parasites
And countless idle threats" - Neil Young
> Back to the shadows, hopefully for a long time.......
Wait a minute, Fred. The Eaton Collection is located right across
town in the University of California at Riverside's Tomas Rivera
Library. The Mission Inn hotel--where Harold Hiphugger had a happy
childhood--is also in Riverside. But I digress.
The Eaton Collection is the world's largest collection of sci-fi.
FST qualifies right away. The Future Fair is among the best satiric
speculative fiction, for instance.
The Eaton Collection has a huge collection of fanzines, the Aldous
Huxley catalog and the Philip K. Dick collection. They have some
materials not directly related to fantastic fiction.
Dr. Melissa Conway <melissa...@ucr.edu> is Head of Special
Collections. She'll be attending World Con in Anaheim as an invited
guest panelist in a few weeks. I could try to contact her on your
behalf.
>> "Don't forget to register to vote" - Frank Zappa
Take care of yourself.
--
<http://www.well.com/user/silly/firesign.html>
"And then don't forget to vote" - Freditor
Freditor
Thomas Armagost wrote:
> Hey, my dad is a Bix Beiderbecke fan. Maybe he sent you that audio.
>
Well then, your genes are well stocked.
> The Eaton Collection has a huge collection of fanzines, the Aldous
> Huxley catalog and the Philip K. Dick collection. They have some
> materials not directly related to fantastic fiction.
>
> Dr. Melissa Conway <melissa...@ucr.edu> is Head of Special
> Collections. She'll be attending World Con in Anaheim as an invited
> guest panelist in a few weeks. I could try to contact her on your
> behalf.
OK, I guess.
> >> "Don't forget to register to vote" - Frank Zappa
>
> Take care of yourself.
>
Thank you.