Let's have a heated debate
Al Ferrier
Proposal: the nineties as a decade have seen British tv comedy explode
in terms of both public and critical support. Despite (or maybe because
of) a rash of trendy American imports, British and Irish tv comedy is a
world beater.
Discuss.
And just to get the ball rolling...
The last decade have seen more and arguably better comedy programmes being
produced for the major terrestrial networks than at any time before. Indeed,
not only have some of the series produced won public acclaim and enjoyed
huge ratings, but have broadened the focus of comedy and its place in society.
With such a wealth of talent, it is perhaps reassuring to know that these people
are becoming a new comedy establishment and that the comedy scene (in all its forms)
is healthier and more vibrant now than at any time in the last twenty years. A
sharper, more incisive vision has replaced that which represented the seventies:
gone are the jaded nightclub comedians in their dickie bows and gone too are the
misogynistic and racist patheticisms that were their stock in trade. Admitting
to liking someone like Bernard Manning or Jim Davidson is now akin to feeling
nostalgic about the three day week or the energy crisis! Just as time has moved
on, so has comedy. These performers will continue, but they have been effectively
marginalised and their power to shock or even be seen as funny has been much
diminished. In the bear pit environment of most comedy clubs, the Monkhouses of
this world with their lazy generalisations would get mauled and so they should, as,
if comedy is indeed a jungle, then only the quick stay alive. Alexei Sayle's Bobby
Champion hammered the last nail into their coffin and no-one went to the funeral.
So, sports fans, I give you the comedy of the nineties. Feel free to give vent
to your thoughts here. It will make for a good fin de siecle discussion.
Al's personal 90s comedy list (no particular order)
The Fast Show (sketches, BBC)
Father Ted (sitcom, C4)
(early) Who's Line Is It Anyway? (improv, C4)
They Think It's All Over (quiz, BBC)
Have I Got News For You? (quiz, BBC)
Never Mind The Buzzcocks (quiz, BBC)
One Foot In The Grave (sitcom, BBC)
Rory Bremner (impressions, BBC/C4)
Mark Thomas Product (investigative/stand-up, C4)
The Royle Family (sitcom, BBC)
You've a lot of work to do, ITV!
Cheers :)
Al
ChristiŞnF
Al Ferrier wrote:
<sniperoony>
> With such a wealth of talent, it is perhaps reassuring to know that
>these people are becoming a new comedy establishment
Cautionary note; remember Carry on Columbus....who's carrying the can
for that?
>In the bear pit environment of most comedy clubs, the
>Monkhouses of this world with their lazy generalisations would get
>mauled and so they should, as, if comedy is indeed a jungle, then
>only the quick stay alive.
<sniperoony>
As you've mentined things have moved on but I wonder if clubs *are*
more difficult now than they were......If I was a standup (and I'm
not) I reckon I'd rather cut my teeth at my local clubs (outside
London) nowadays than step back in time, get a perm and a frilly shirt
and do a turn at the miners social.
I'm sure baldy funny man Roger Monkhouse may also take issue;)
> The Fast Show (sketches, BBC)
> Father Ted (sitcom, C4)
> (early) Who's Line Is It Anyway? (improv, C4)
> They Think It's All Over (quiz, BBC)
> Have I Got News For You? (quiz, BBC)
> Never Mind The Buzzcocks (quiz, BBC)
> One Foot In The Grave (sitcom, BBC)
> Rory Bremner (impressions, BBC/C4)
> Mark Thomas Product (investigative/stand-up, C4)
> The Royle Family (sitcom, BBC)
All good shows in their own ways but I don't know if I'd call any
panel quiz show a world beater.......end of the day they're just too
cheap.....funny but cheap.
> You've a lot of work to do, ITV!
Echoed!
--
~ChristiŞn
Simon
Al Ferrier <so...@ukf.net> wrote in message
news:3854c...@news2.cluster1.telinco.net...
> Something to chew over...
>
> Proposal: the nineties as a decade have seen British tv comedy explode
> in terms of both public and critical support. Despite (or maybe because
> of) a rash of trendy American imports, British and Irish tv comedy is a
> world beater.
>
> Discuss.
>
>
> And just to get the ball rolling...
>
> The last decade have seen more and arguably better comedy programmes being
> produced for the major terrestrial networks than at any time before.
Indeed,
> not only have some of the series produced won public acclaim and enjoyed
> huge ratings, but have broadened the focus of comedy and its place in
society.
Doubtful. BBC1 and ITV have seen an absolute dearth in new and exciting
comedy. If anything comedy audiences have become more narrowed and
polarised. Ratings for comedy in the 90s have probably been lower on the
main two channels than at any time previously. dinnerladies is in the top 10
at the moment, but what other new sitcoms have been so this year? Any??
> With such a wealth of talent, it is perhaps reassuring to know that these
people
> are becoming a new comedy establishment and that the comedy scene (in all
its forms)
> is healthier and more vibrant now than at any time in the last twenty
years.
> sharper, more incisive vision has replaced that which represented the
seventies:
> gone are the jaded nightclub comedians in their dickie bows and gone too
are the
> misogynistic and racist patheticisms that were their stock in trade.
Admitting
> to liking someone like Bernard Manning or Jim Davidson is now akin to
feeling
> nostalgic about the three day week or the energy crisis! Just as time has
moved
> on, so has comedy. These performers will continue, but they have been
effectively
> marginalised and their power to shock or even be seen as funny has been
much
> diminished. In the bear pit environment of most comedy clubs, the
Monkhouses of
> this world with their lazy generalisations would get mauled and so they
should, as,
> if comedy is indeed a jungle, then only the quick stay alive. Alexei
Sayle's Bobby
> Champion hammered the last nail into their coffin and no-one went to the
funeral.
>
I think it might be as true to say that audiences have outgrown those
idiots, more so sadly than them having been washed away by any great wave of
fresh talent. Its always tricky to gage the contemporary comedy temperature,
but my sense is its pretty poorly here right now. I've been watching the
Stand-Up show in recent weeks and the best comedian by far has been an
American, Scott Capuro. The British and Irish comics have been a pretty
average bunch, able to string a few jokes and wry observations together, but
usually without showing much in the way of real personality or wit. Perhaps
the club scene feels pretty vibrant at the moment (I live out in the sticks,
miles from any actual comedy clubs), but if so it isn't coming across on
this show. Of course the next Reeves and Mortimar or Eddie Izzard could
explode from nowhere at any moment to prove me wrong. Anyone care to
nominate the next BIG thing?
> So, sports fans, I give you the comedy of the nineties. Feel free to give
vent
> to your thoughts here. It will make for a good fin de siecle discussion.
>
> Al's personal 90s comedy list (no particular order)
>
> The Fast Show (sketches, BBC)
> Father Ted (sitcom, C4)
> (early) Who's Line Is It Anyway? (improv, C4)
> They Think It's All Over (quiz, BBC)
> Have I Got News For You? (quiz, BBC)
> Never Mind The Buzzcocks (quiz, BBC)
> One Foot In The Grave (sitcom, BBC)
> Rory Bremner (impressions, BBC/C4)
> Mark Thomas Product (investigative/stand-up, C4)
> The Royle Family (sitcom, BBC)
>
You've missed the three best shows of the 90's IMHO - The Day Today, Brass
Eye and I'm Alan Partridge.
The 80's gave us Blackadder and Only Fool's and Horses, the 70's Porridge
and Rising Damp. In comparison the 90's doesn't seem particularly
distinguished. With the possibly exception of the Royle Family and Rory,
there's not a lot of sophisticated comedy in that list either. Broad humour,
good for the odd belly laugh most of it, but not especially memorable or
distinguished. I think most Brit comedy, especially the game shows, are seen
as a bit of laff for those involved, with the audience there simply to laugh
along and boost the participants egos a bit. But truly great comedy, the
stuff you'll wanna come back and watch again in ten years time, needs a bit
more effort than that. It requires a bit of blood, sweat and tears mixed in
with the laughter.
Finally, only three sitcoms to show for the whole 90's? You could add Red
Dwarf, which I'll confess to liking despite the geeky fanboy subculture
that's formed around it and Absolutely Fabulous too. But still, we had what,
eighteen episodes of Father Ted? the same for Ab Fab? That's pretty meagre
rations compared to the 150 odd episodes of Frasier produced to a
consistently high standard in the US. Yeah, and I know they consistently
produce a lot of crap in the US too, but then which country gave us
Sunnyside Farm? Or Babes in the Wood?
Here endeth my thoughts.
Simon.
Mike Landers
(removes tentacle proof lurking coat)
>Admitting
>to liking someone like Bernard Manning or Jim Davidson is now akin to feeling
>nostalgic about the three day week or the energy crisis! Just as time has moved
>on, so has comedy. These performers will continue, but they have been effectively
>marginalised and their power to shock or even be seen as funny has been much
>diminished.
To be honest, I find Chubby Brown a guilty pleasure - I'm not going to
defend his humour, but I do like the way he consistently turns the gun
on himself, i.e "I'm racist, homophobic etc but look at the pathetic
fat get who is saying it..."
>In the bear pit environment of most comedy clubs, the Monkhouses of
>this world with their lazy generalisations would get mauled and so they should, as,
>if comedy is indeed a jungle, then only the quick stay alive. Alexei Sayle's Bobby
>Champion hammered the last nail into their coffin and no-one went to the funeral.
To be replaced by what? Personally, I'm a little tired of wry,
observational humour - the excess of which is probably linked to the
lack of targets in the current Labour Government. Only Private Eye
has got the satire spot on, with St Albions, but compared to Mad
Maggie, Hezza, Tebbit and Archer, the cupboard for political satire
(which I love) is bare.
>(early) Who's Line Is It Anyway? (improv, C4)
I would swear this was 80's. And the funniest performers (Stiles,
Mochrie (sp?) are US)
>They Think It's All Over (quiz, BBC)
>Have I Got News For You? (quiz, BBC)
>Never Mind The Buzzcocks (quiz, BBC)
Cookie cutter comedy - HIGNFY is the original (and an 80's original at
that) and the rest are just direct - and inferior - copies of it.
>One Foot In The Grave (sitcom, BBC)
>Rory Bremner (impressions, BBC/C4)
Again, began in the 80's...
>Mark Thomas Product (investigative/stand-up, C4)
Definitely agreed.
Perhaps add to the list Men Behaving Badly and the Thin Blue Line,
which I think is a vastly underrated show.
>You've a lot of work to do, ITV!
I'm trying to think of one decent ITV comedy I consistently watched in
the past two decades.
Mike
--
Mike Landers - plis...@WRAPPING.netcomuk.co.uk
Manchester Storm, Fire on Ice - http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~plissken/index.html
Remove WRAPPING to reply via email.
te...@spam.co.uk
hour/day today/alan partridge/brass eye people, lineham and matthews (yes, I
liked big train!) and lee & herring. Buzzcocks? Men Behaving Badly?
watchable but hardly classic or original.
* >You've a lot of work to do, ITV!
* I'm trying to think of one decent ITV comedy I consistently watched in
* the past two decades.
have there ever been any apart from rising damp?
|_ _
(_ (/,(/,| ||_| @frenz.com www.bigfoot.com/~parkerknoll
_)
Richard Green
> To be replaced by what? Personally, I'm a little tired of wry,
> observational humour - the excess of which is probably linked to the
> lack of targets in the current Labour Government. Only Private Eye
> has got the satire spot on, with St Albions, but compared to Mad
> Maggie, Hezza, Tebbit and Archer, the cupboard for political satire
> (which I love) is bare.
I wouldn't say it's bare. I like John Bird and John Fortune, especially
when they're doing their "George Parr" dialogues. It would be nice if
satire were a bit more vicious nowadays, like Spitting Image was, but when
questioned about this, Rory Bremner et al said that the public didn't yet
have the appetite for New Labour being mercilessly ripped to shreds a la
Thatcher.
In2Home User
>in terms of both public and critical support. Despite (or maybe because
>of) a rash of trendy American imports, British and Irish tv comedy is a
>world beater.
...and I can nail diarrhoea to the ceiling with a hammer made of bone
china...
>The last decade have seen more and arguably better comedy programmes being
>produced for the major terrestrial networks than at any time before.
Indeed,
>not only have some of the series produced won public acclaim and enjoyed
>huge ratings, but have broadened the focus of comedy and its place in
society.
...and I can nail diarrhoea to the ceiling with a hammer made of bone
china...
>With such a wealth of talent, it is perhaps reassuring to know that these
people
>are becoming a new comedy establishment and that the comedy scene (in all
its forms)
>is healthier and more vibrant now than at any time in the last twenty
years.
...and I can nail diarrhoea to the ceiling with a hammer made of bone china.
A
>sharper, more incisive vision has replaced that which represented the
seventies:
>gone are the jaded nightclub comedians in their dickie bows and gone too
are the
>misogynistic and racist patheticisms that were their stock in trade.
Then what about all those "laddish" comedians then, with xenophobic and
misogynistic jokes blended among the references to beer and football? The
fact is, at the start of the 90s, 70s comedy was almost gone but now, at the
end of the 90s, it's back.
Admitting
>to liking someone like Bernard Manning or Jim Davidson is now akin to
feeling
>nostalgic about the three day week or the energy crisis! Just as time has
moved
>on, so has comedy. These performers will continue, but they have been
effectively
>marginalised and their power to shock or even be seen as funny has been
much
>diminished.
Then why are Bernard Manning and Roy Chubby Brown more popular than ever?
In the bear pit environment of most comedy clubs, the Monkhouses of
>this world with their lazy generalisations would get mauled and so they
should, as,
>if comedy is indeed a jungle, then only the quick stay alive. Alexei
Sayle's Bobby
>Champion hammered the last nail into their coffin and no-one went to the
funeral.
That's true.
>The Fast Show (sketches, BBC)
Great.
>Father Ted (sitcom, C4)
It's not British, it's Irish.
>They Think It's All Over (quiz, BBC)
Injokes that only sports fans could find funny, blended with xenophobia.
>Have I Got News For You? (quiz, BBC)
Not as good as it used to be.
>Never Mind The Buzzcocks (quiz, BBC)
More injokes, this time about music.
>One Foot In The Grave (sitcom, BBC)
Great.
>Rory Bremner (impressions, BBC/C4)
Vile. The only place for impressionism is in drinking establishments, where
people will laugh at them because they're pissed, because they will laugh at
anything becuse they're pissed..
>Mark Thomas Product (investigative/stand-up, C4)
Do you really believe that he cares about those issues, or simply in
cynically trivializing them for ratings? We all like to believe that someone
is looking out for us against people who seek to abuse their power over us,
which is what he bases his show on, but what has he really achieved for us?
Some politicians lie, well I never guessed that.
>The Royle Family (sitcom, BBC)
They use swearing, so it must be funny.
White Shite
us...@w-s.in2home.co.uk
firestarter
<te...@spam.co.uk> wrote in message
news:835amh$kvm$1...@cfs2.kis.keele.ac.uk...
|
| * >You've a lot of work to do, ITV!
|
| * I'm trying to think of one decent ITV comedy I consistently watched in
| * the past two decades.
|
| have there ever been any apart from rising damp?
|
| |_ _
| (_ (/,(/,| ||_| @frenz.com www.bigfoot.com/~parkerknoll
| _)
I'm quite impressed with myself. I can name one ITV sitcom that I liked...
Brass
Yep, that's it... It wasn't bad.
I had to laugh reading today's (Tue) Independent. ITV's head of drama saying
how influential ITV's output is. Ummm. All I can say is thank Christ for Sky
Digital. 'cos you can't pick up ITV on it. What a great selling point!!
IMHO
firestarter
gillian_hardy
20:08:35 -0000, "Simon" <si...@ableland.freeserve.co.uk> had been
moved to type:
> In comparison the 90's doesn't seem particularly
>distinguished.
Ab Fab has practically become a way of life, and I'd certainly argue
the case for Drop The Dead Donkey and Father Ted as being two *really
good* comedies of the Nineties too.
Gillian
*** LUFC - MARCHING ON TOGETHER TO THE TOP OF THE LEAGUE ***
In2Home User
>polarised. Ratings for comedy in the 90s have probably been lower on the
>main two channels than at any time previously.
What comedy has been on the main two channels in the 90s? The Thin Blue
Line? Days Like These? Roger Roger? The Grimleys? I've never cared for
mainstream comedy which is partly why I dislike these programmes but what
about the increasingly bad comedy on BBC2 and Channel 4?
White Shite
us...@w-s.in2home.co.uk
Marlaminx
>in terms of both public and critical support. Despite (or maybe because
>of) a rash of trendy American imports, British and Irish tv comedy is a
>world beater.
>
>
I agree, the nineties have been pivotal for British comedy. It's a decade that
has seen shows like Spaced and The Royle Family, redifine the parameters of
sitcom and the sketch show format revaluated by shows like The Day Today, Brass
Eye, The Legue of Gentlemen and Big Train add to this Coogan's video diaries,
the rise of Alan Partridge, Ali G, Reeves and Mortimer, The Fast Show, it's
been a decade of change and progress.
Incidentally, did anyone read the article in The Independent last week about
how Spaced and Royle Family have had a huge impact on how T.V. companies are
approaching sitcom. V. interesting.
firestarter
Marlaminx <marl...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991217073936...@ng-fg1.aol.com...
|
| Incidentally, did anyone read the article in The Independent last week
about
| how Spaced and Royle Family have had a huge impact on how T.V. companies
are
| approaching sitcom. V. interesting.
God bless the Indie...
But, what is the most relevant in sitcom, Terry & June or The Royle Family.
I know which one reminds me of the people I know...
firestarter