Foreign Students
Norman Ma
In article <4s5roc$t...@mn5.swip.net: Sten.t...@mbox200.swipnet.se (Sten Thaning) writes:
:m...@cs.utk.edu (Norman Ma) wrote:
::...worked with many non-American students (Oh, by the way, Keith,
::once again, that include Caucasoid, Mongoloid, and Negroid, e.g.
::culturally Somalian, Chinese, German, and Dans). My general impression
::is that they are focused and studious, although some tend to over stuff
::themselve at Mr. Gatty's Pizza or chain smoke. :-)
:
:Just a question here: With "foreign students", do you mean exchange
:students at high school level or suchlike. I have a feeling that they
:are not a true sample of their home contry's students.
Graduate school level. Correct, they are not a "true sample" of
their home country's students. Not everyone in Somalia is working
towards a electrical engineering degree in the U.S., not all Dans
are interested in Markov Chain's application in chromosomal
identification, and it probably is literally one in a million chance
that a Chinese student gets to pursue graduate study in a "foreign"
country. These graduate foreign students are definitely above par
in their intellectual prowess, just like their American counter part.
It is unfortunate that SOME people are so xenophobic. This reminds
be of an adage, "When a lion is out of his domicile, even a dingo
gets to piss on him." :-) We can all learn a lot from each other, why
act so provincial?
--Norm
Norman Ma
In article <4stn2p$b...@daffy.sb.west.net> 72307...@compuserve.com (Bruce R) writes:
BR>It is a cozy and commonly held belief that foreign students come here
BR>to learn skills that they cannot learn at home and then take these
BR>skills back to their native countries and put the skills to work
BR>improving the lot of their countrymen. In reality, 80% of foreign
BR>students who come to the U.S. to study, end up staying permanently,
BR>either by marrying an American citizen, having an American citizen
BR>anchor baby, going on to an American graduate school, or by getting a
BR>job at a shyster company that gets the person an H1B visa for life.
BR>
BR>The foreign student program in the U.S. is nothing more than an
BR>additional immigration program in disguise. As any INS employee will
BR>tell you, once a person sets foot in the U.S., it is very, very
BR>unlikely that he will ever be forced to leave.
Bruce, Bruce, BRUCE!
Actually, we would like all Ph.D. students to stay and contribute
to our society. It is not economical to spend over $200,000
(that was more than five years ago) to put someone through a Ph.D.
study and then lose that talent to some foreign country. Considering
that the average salary of an engineering Ph.D. is some where around
$65,000 through $85,000, that's $24,050 through $31,450 worth of
tax revenue for the IRS. Moreover, maybe one of these Ph.D.s (who
care whats their nationality or ethnic origin) will advance the
technology and save the World.
As to the illegal Mexican, El Salvadoran, etc. Their life is
pathetic and miserable at their homeland or here anyway. Why
kick someone when their own country has already extinguished
their spirit and hope? Unless you just have that Macho Killer Instinct
:-) or perhaps you don't like the competition? According to the
Bible and El Koran, the rich shall extend helping hands to
the feeble. With the way we American sucking in the world
resource, we can all afford to lose about 10 or 15 pounds.
One thing I can proudly say, though, is that Americans are doing
far more for the World than other Developed Countries.
By the way, had great Chinese food tonight, and my fortune
cookie said, "A million dollars saved in the bank calms the
mind, while a penny given to the needy soothes the Soul.
--Norm
Bruce R
m...@cs.utk.edu (Norman Ma) wrote:
:>In article <4stn2p$b...@daffy.sb.west.net> 72307...@compuserve.com (Bruce R) writes:
:>BR>It is a cozy and commonly held belief that foreign students come here
:>BR>to learn skills that they cannot learn at home and then take these
:>BR>skills back to their native countries and put the skills to work
:>BR>improving the lot of their countrymen. In reality, 80% of foreign
:>BR>students who come to the U.S. to study, end up staying permanently,
:>BR>either by marrying an American citizen, having an American citizen
:>BR>anchor baby, going on to an American graduate school, or by getting a
:>BR>job at a shyster company that gets the person an H1B visa for life.
::>BR>The foreign student program in the U.S. is nothing more than an
:>BR>additional immigration program in disguise. As any INS employee will
:>BR>tell you, once a person sets foot in the U.S., it is very, very
:>BR>unlikely that he will ever be forced to leave.
:
:>Bruce, Bruce, BRUCE!
:>Actually, we would like all Ph.D. students to stay and contribute
:>to our society. It is not economical to spend over $200,000
:>(that was more than five years ago) to put someone through a Ph.D.
:>study and then lose that talent to some foreign country. Considering
:>that the average salary of an engineering Ph.D. is some where around
:>$65,000 through $85,000, that's $24,050 through $31,450 worth of
:>tax revenue for the IRS.
True, but from this additional tax revenue, you must deduct the
unemployment expense of the hundreds of thousands of U.S. engineers
aged 50 and above who have been "downsized" out of their high-paying
jobs to make room for the lesser salaried foreign Ph.D.'s who have
flooded our graduate schools.
:> Moreover, maybe one of these Ph.D.s (who
:>care whats their nationality or ethnic origin) will advance the
:>technology and save the World.
Wouldn't they be able to do this in their own countries? Or is it the
air here that stimulates their brains?
:
:>As to the illegal Mexican, El Salvadoran, etc. Their life is
:>pathetic and miserable at their homeland or here anyway. Why
:>kick someone when their own country has already extinguished
:>their spirit and hope? Unless you just have that Macho Killer Instinct
:>:-) or perhaps you don't like the competition? According to the
:>Bible and El Koran, the rich shall extend helping hands to
:>the feeble. With the way we American sucking in the world
:>resource, we can all afford to lose about 10 or 15 pounds.
With the way Americans suck resources, only a fool or charletain would
want to add to the American population so that more resources are
sucked! If you want less resources sucked, then get rid of a 100
million Americans and that would do it. Adding 1.2 million foreigners
a year to the U.S. resource sucking pool is hardly going to solve this
problem!
:>One thing I can proudly say, though, is that Americans are doing
:>far more for the World than other Developed Countries.
You seem to be saying that in order to help the poor of the World, all
those billions of people, we should invite them all here to live with
us. How about encouraging birth control in poor countries? Do you
think that might cut down on starvation and poverty? Taking in the
World's excess population is not solving the problem but making it
worse. Look at our tacit agreement with Mexico not to seal our
borders so that their overflow can come here. If we had sealed our
border back in 1965, the Mexicans would have had another revolution
and booted out the corrupt government they've got and maybe instituted
a better system for themselves. Instead, with a wink and a nod, we
have allowed millions of Mexicans to climb the fence in order to
placate the crime and bribary riddled government in Mexico City. And
Mexicans are making more babies than they ever have, doubling their
population every 25 years.
:
evil Beavis
Norman Ma wrote:
>
> In article <4stn2p$b...@daffy.sb.west.net> 72307...@compuserve.com (Bruce R) writes:
> BR>It is a cozy and commonly held belief that foreign students come here
> BR>to learn skills that they cannot learn at home and then take these
> BR>skills back to their native countries and put the skills to work
> BR>improving the lot of their countrymen. In reality, 80% of foreign
> BR>students who come to the U.S. to study, end up staying permanently,
> BR>either by marrying an American citizen, having an American citizen
> BR>anchor baby, going on to an American graduate school, or by getting a
> BR>job at a shyster company that gets the person an H1B visa for life.
> BR>
> BR>The foreign student program in the U.S. is nothing more than an
> BR>additional immigration program in disguise. As any INS employee will
> BR>tell you, once a person sets foot in the U.S., it is very, very
> BR>unlikely that he will ever be forced to leave.
>
> Bruce, Bruce, BRUCE!
> Actually, we would like all Ph.D. students to stay and contribute
> to our society. It is not economical to spend over $200,000
> (that was more than five years ago) to put someone through a Ph.D.
> study and then lose that talent to some foreign country. Considering
> that the average salary of an engineering Ph.D. is some where around
> $65,000 through $85,000, that's $24,050 through $31,450 worth of
> care whats their nationality or ethnic origin) will advance the
> technology and save the World.
>
> pathetic and miserable at their homeland or here anyway. Why
> kick someone when their own country has already extinguished
> their spirit and hope? Unless you just have that Macho Killer Instinct
> :-) or perhaps you don't like the competition? According to the
> Bible and El Koran, the rich shall extend helping hands to
> the feeble. With the way we American sucking in the world
> resource, we can all afford to lose about 10 or 15 pounds.
> far more for the World than other Developed Countries.
Really now? Go to Africa and compare what Sweden with 9 million
inhabitants have done to help there as compared to the USA with its 260
million people. I dare you to find places out in the boonies there that
cannot tell you about a Swedish aid program of some sorts. Americans do
very little when you consider their large population and GNP - both
largest in the developed world. As far as for taking in refugees, the
percentages of who Sweden, Austria etc. takes in compared to their own
populations far exceeds that of the USA. Have you ever been outside the
US and seen some of this "taking car" that you supposedly do so much
more than others for yourself?
eB
Ken Wessels
>
>> A PROFOUND MISCONCEPTION SURROUNDS THE DEBATE OVER "FOREIGN STUDENTS".
>>THEY ARE THE RICH AND/OR PRIVILEGED OF THEIR RESPECTIVE COUNTRIES. THEY
>>ALSO USUALLY ARE TEACHING ASST. OR RESEARCH ASST. THESE ARE "REAL JOBS" IN
>>A COLLEGE COMMUNITY. IT IS MUCH MORE A FACTOR FOR AMERICANS LOSING WORK
>>THAN "FACTORIES FARMING OUT PARTS WORK"
>> THE WAVE OF SEMI-PERMANENT RESIDENTS FROM THE FAR EAST IN THE LAST FIVE
>>YEARS HAS CREATED A NEW TYPE OF "IMMIGRANT" THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH
>>COMING TO AMERICA AND "WORKING HARD IN DIRTY JOBS". A GREAT MANY ARE
>>NEWLYWEDS AND/OR STARTING TRADITIONAL FAMILIES IN AMERICA,THAT IS , HAVING
>>2 0R 3 KIDS DURING THEIR STUDENT YEARS.
>
> "Maybe if I shout, that'll make it right!" This is the kind of bigotry
>that leads to needless strife in the world. I have never met a
>non-native teaching assistant in *any* position. I do know that I have
>no objective reason for holding heritage against anyone. I am German,
>French, Irish, British, Dutch, and Cherokee. Typical Americans are
>from immigrant families, somewhere along the line. Are you one of the
>Native Americans, having traveled across a long-disappeared land
>bridge? Take your bigoted attitude and put it talk.skinhead. This is
>for the discussion of atheist issues, not hate.
>
> Mike Turk
Mike Turk, your problem is that you have not been exposed to the real
life-win or lose- atmosphere of America's large 25,000 plus public
universities. Name calling and telling-off doesn't make you any more
involved! Also you are not payoing attention :"heritage" has NOTHING in
common with being a citizen of another country and coming to America for
employment and residency. One give-in to you though, I have removed alt.
atheism from the response heads.
http://members.aol.com/cydonia102/private/ken.html
access "Toys and Teddy Bears" from there
Norman Ma
In article <deb-200796...@128.0.1.2> d...@biovax.biology.uiowa.edu (Ken Wessels) writes:
WES> A PROFOUND MISCONCEPTION SURROUNDS THE DEBATE OVER "FOREIGN STUDENTS".
WES>THEY ARE THE RICH AND/OR PRIVILEGED OF THEIR RESPECTIVE COUNTRIES. THEY
WES>ALSO USUALLY ARE TEACHING ASST. OR RESEARCH ASST. THESE ARE "REAL JOBS" IN
WES>A COLLEGE COMMUNITY. IT IS MUCH MORE A FACTOR FOR AMERICANS LOSING WORK
WES>THAN "FACTORIES FARMING OUT PARTS WORK"
WES> THE WAVE OF SEMI-PERMANENT RESIDENTS FROM THE FAR EAST IN THE LAST FIVE
WES>YEARS HAS CREATED A NEW TYPE OF "IMMIGRANT" THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH
WES>COMING TO AMERICA AND "WORKING HARD IN DIRTY JOBS". A GREAT MANY ARE
WES>NEWLYWEDS AND/OR STARTING TRADITIONAL FAMILIES IN AMERICA,THAT IS , HAVING
WES>2 0R 3 KIDS DURING THEIR STUDENT YEARS.
Ken, please do not scream; Capitalize the first character of a paragraph
or a sentence and use lower-case letter for rest. How do you feel about
this "WAVE OF SEMI-PERMANENT RESIDENTS FROM THE FAR EAST" as oppose to
graduate students from other parts of the World?
--Norm