Higgins Ink
Fdu...@aol.com
>
> I have before me about half a bottle of Higgins Sepia Calligraphy ink.
> The other half passed uneventfully but enjoyably through my Lamy
> Safari. Then some ne'er do well made off with the pen.
> So I tried the Higgins in my little Pelicano.
> It won't drop a line. Just too thick.
> So ... can I dilute it a bit? Tap[ water or ???
> Please advise.
> Thank you. (PS: anybody have a wonderful sale on Lamy Safaris??)
> Cam Morton
No but you can wreck all your fountain pens with it. This is is NOT to
be used in fountain pens, its a waterproof drafting ink. Frank
Fdu...@aol.com
Opps, well, their calligraphy ink is different, but I belive its also
waterproof and deigned for signs and such, so its still not to be used
in fountain pens, even calligraphy fountain pens, unless so stated on
the bottle. FD
Cam Morton
so what
checked with this newsgroup first, and was given the same advice Frank has
given you. The reason I almost bought it was, on the box they show a legend for
the different ways it can be used, and one of the symbols looks like a fountain
pen. However, that should be read as a dip pen, not an FP.
delete 1.
Satrap
titanic cruise? I think not!
much safer on a ruby yacht
j-la...@neiu.edu
>I almost bought a bottle of Higgins ink at an art store a few months ago, but I
>checked with this newsgroup first, and was given the same advice Frank has
>given you. The reason I almost bought it was, on the box they show a legend for
>the different ways it can be used, and one of the symbols looks like a fountain
>pen. However, that should be read as a dip pen, not an FP.
Hey Girl! Who you callin' a dip?
so what
>Hey Girl! Who you callin' a dip?
>
>
<three snap in the z formation>
Who answerin' the call?
satrap
coming home to roost after all, in about 61 days
j-la...@neiu.edu
>>
>>Hey Girl! Who you callin' a dip?
>>
>>
><three snap in the z formation>
>Who answerin' the call?
Take more'n a finger snap -- on or off the boat.
Harrumph!! (tm)
so what
>>>
>>>
>
>><three snap in the z formation>
>>Who answerin' the call?
>
>Take more'n a finger snap -- on or off the boat.
>
>Harrumph!! (tm)
Lattie. I'll see ya, and probably finish raisin' ya (in the sun, you be kinda
on da pale side), *soon* as I get home!
satrap
60 days from coming home
Cam Morton
1. I have been using the Higgins Calligraphy Ink uneventfully in
myLamy Safari for at least 18 months ... at, say, one filling a week,
that's 70 or more refillings. Occasionally it would start to feel like
it wanted a bath, so I gave it one. Warm water flushings, nothing
more. Started on the first stroke, nib smooth as butter till the day
it went missing.
2. That aside, could you add a bit of detail please.
In what way is it not suitable for fountain pens?
Understand ... I'm not disagreeing (after all its my little pelikano
not working with it which prompted my original message) I just don't
understand. Is it simply too thick for most fountain pens or is the
chemical formulation such that it does actual damage?
thanks in advance,
Cam Morton
Fdu...@aol.com
>
> Okay... forgive me.
> 1. I have been using the Higgins Calligraphy Ink uneventfully in
> myLamy Safari for at least 18 months ... at, say, one filling a week,
> that's 70 or more refillings. Occasionally it would start to feel like
> it wanted a bath, so I gave it one. Warm water flushings, nothing
> more. Started on the first stroke, nib smooth as butter till the day
> it went missing.
> 2. That aside, could you add a bit of detail please.
> In what way is it not suitable for fountain pens?
> Understand ... I'm not disagreeing (after all its my little pelikano
> not working with it which prompted my original message) I just don't
> understand. Is it simply too thick for most fountain pens or is the
> chemical formulation such that it does actual damage?
>
Since I cannot see the actual ink you are using I cannot give you an
answer. Higgins has made ink for fountain pens and that should be
fine. But probably 95% of all Higgins ink made over the years is
waterproof ink and cannot, or at least should not be used in fountain
pens. That doesn't stop people from using it, and, yes, sometimes, it
may work fine in many pens. For a while, anyhow. So will paint work in
some pens. As well as strong Kool-Aid or blood. Watercolor.
Fingerpaint. Brown Gravy. Hey I tried em all at one time or another
when I was young and foolish. Ok so that was waaaaaaay baaaaaack when,
but yup, I tried em. Briefly Higgins ink is USUALLY (not always) a
lacquer or shelac based ink, rather than a water based ink. Other times
it is a PIGMENT based ink rather than dye based. No fountain pen ink
should be pigment based as that means the color is made of SOLID
PARTICLES that can never disolve. Yet, some FP ink has been pigment
based, although its kind of rare. I belive PR Bubble Gum is a pigment
base, for example, although I am not positive. FP ink should be DYE
based, pigment base is getting into the area of paint. White ink, for
example is obviously pigment based, and doesn't belong in a FP, yet it
may work fine in some. Or may wreck or stain the pen very seriously.
So SOME calligaphy ink is designed for POSTERS, cards, etc and as such
is really a sort of watered out POSTER PAINT, pigment based. Again I
cannot comment directly on the ink you have unless I had it in my
hand. Hope all this helps. Frank
Greg Clark
drops in a 2oz clear glass container and fill it most of the way up with tap
water. Add about 1/2 tsp. of Clorox chlorine bleach, stir and let sit. If
the liquid turns clear, it is a dye based ink and should be safe.
A follow up test for those who want to be really sure is to put 2 drops of
the ink on a glass surface and let dry 24 hours. Try to rinse it off with
just a bit of finger wiping. Don't scrub. It should wash off very easily.
Put a drop of an ink you know is safe right next to it as a reference and
dry/wash them together.
Greg
The Ink Sampler guy
FDubiel
drops in a 2oz clear glass container and fill it most of the way up with tap
water. Add about 1/2 tsp. of Clorox chlorine bleach, stir and let sit. If
the liquid turns clear, it is a dye based ink and should be safe.>>
I wouldn't stake my life on it, but, yes thats a reasonable way to tell a dye
based from a pigment based ink. This assumes its not some weird ink made with
a combination of pigment and dye--normally a technical no-no, but its been
tried. In fact how easily the liquid turns clear could also give some very
vague idea as to its staining potential. BTW, another way to tell if
anything says "shake before using." Good fountain pen ink should never need a
shake or even a stir. I have bottlles of ink over 50 years old and the bottom
of the bottle is exactly like the very top. In fact shaking does more harm
than good in that it may bring up any sediment, if prersent at the bottom. A
pigment based ink will have the piment eventually settle to the bottom, so if
you see heavy colored gunk on the bottom of your ink bottle, that means you may
have pigmented ink. Or maybe just lousy ink with gunk. Either way its bad ink
for a fountain pen. Frank
so what
>should be pigment based as that means the color is made of SOLID
>PARTICLES that can never disolve. Yet, some FP ink has been pigment
>based, although its kind of rare. I belive PR Bubble Gum is a pigment
>base, for example, although I am not positive.
I have heard of PR ink staining glass dip pens, and also that it smells like
the fluid in flourescent hi-liters. sounds pretty dangerous to me!
satrap
Greg Clark
PR inks are NOT pigment based. They are dye based inks. The three colors
of PR inks that are "different" are Candy Apple Red, Tangerine Dream and Hot
Bubble gum. They are NOT pigment based but use a different type of dye than
the usual FP ink. Doesn't mean it is harmful - it just means that it does
not mix with conventional aniline based dye inks. The five new colors
coming out are more conventional and safe to mix with anything.
All inks stain. Frank D has said this for years. That is their job - to
stain paper in a pretty color. Pen makers try to make pens that don't get
stained by the ink they carry. Modern pen users are demanding bright and
highly saturated inks so they can have "visual impact" with what they write.
This is a touchy combination!!
If you like "high impact" colors, use them in cartridge filling pens and use
a converter. Pick pens with black sections and feeds. In this way the ink
doesn't touch any part of your pen that can be stained. If you use a
valuable light colored pen or a valuable vintage pen use...........
--- lets hear it Frank -- Sheaffer ink. It has proved its self safe for
75 years. Perhaps a bit boring, but safe!
Fdu...@aol.com
>
> PR inks are NOT pigment based. They are dye based inks. The three colors
> of PR inks that are "different" are Candy Apple Red, Tangerine Dream and Hot
> Bubble gum. They are NOT pigment based but use a different type of dye than
> the usual FP ink. Doesn't mean it is harmful - it just means that it does
> not mix with conventional aniline based dye inks. The five new colors
> coming out are more conventional and safe to mix with anything.
>
I said I don't know if they are dye or pigment. But I have seen very
thick solid color sludge on the bottom of some PR ink. Esp Bubble Gum.
It appears to be undisolved pigment. Yes, it could also be other gunk.
Bottom line, no matter what it is its crap. Gunk, no matter the cause
is a sure sign of terrible ink. Esp on ink so new. Its one thing to
see gunk in a bottle of 50 year old Superchrome. Another on ink so
very new and fresh. Can one imagine what this stuff will look like in
10-15 years?? Assuming it doesn't disolve the bottle first. LOL
Frank
Ann P. Barry
"Sepia Calligraphy Non-waterproof Brown Ink.
Rich, antique-look brown ink for use in all fountain and calligraphic
pens. Free flowing formula. Close cap tightly after use. Dilute with
distilled water. Do not mix with other brands of ink. Not
launderproof."
Along side the text are three pictures: italic text with italic-nibbed
pen, titled 'Calligraphy'; ruled and hole-punched notebook paper with
standard-nibbed pen, titled 'Fountain Pen'; and an air brush in action
with the title 'Air Brush'.
The text and the picture of the ordinary pen with notebook paper were
enough to convince me, at least, that this was intended for use in an
ordinary fountain pen.
--Ann jr.
On Fri, 16 Mar 2001 17:06:41 GMT, Fdu...@aol.com wrote:
>Fdu...@aol.com wrote:
>>
>> Cam Morton wrote:
>> >
>> > I have before me about half a bottle of Higgins Sepia Calligraphy ink.
>Opps, well, their calligraphy ink is different, but I belive its also
Fdu...@aol.com
>
> I have the box for Higgins Sepia Calligraphy ink in my hand. It reads:
>
> "Sepia Calligraphy Non-waterproof Brown Ink.
> Rich, antique-look brown ink for use in all fountain and calligraphic
> pens. Free flowing formula. Close cap tightly after use. Dilute with
> distilled water. Do not mix with other brands of ink. Not
> launderproof."
>
This sounds like bad news for many fountain pens. You have a warning
the ink may need to be diluted, which indicates it may thicken or be so
saturated as to be unusable. Granted any ink can be diluted, but its
rarely necessary and such info is not generally on the box. Other than
that it may be OK for use in a cheap pen, or a pen you don't care about
staining. Sounds something like Superchrome or Penman. IMHO such ink
belongs in gallon buckets at Home Depot. Your opinion may vary so use
it if you like. However almost all thick saturated ink will cause
occasional problems in many pens. And in some pens will never work at
all and/or cause massive clogs. FD
Fdu...@aol.com
>
> Along side the text are three pictures: italic text with italic-nibbed
> pen, titled 'Calligraphy'; ruled and hole-punched notebook paper with
> standard-nibbed pen, titled 'Fountain Pen'; and an air brush in action
> with the title 'Air Brush'.
> > The text and the picture of the ordinary pen with notebook paper were enough to convince me, at least, that this was intended for use in an ordinary fountain pen.
Well, it sure doen't convince me. Air Brush??? That indicates
possibly a paint. This may well be watery poster paint. Pigment ink.
Same thing almost. While I suppose one may use FP ink in an air brush,
that certainaly is not anything I've heard of on a normal basis. But
then there is no law against writing with paint, and some paints write
OK in some pens. This may be thick sortta OK ink like Penman,
pigmented ink, watered down poster paint or who knows what? Short of a
technical paper from Higgins explaing what this is I can't tell from the
box. Frank
B Davis
thick solid color sludge on the bottom of some PR ink. Esp Bubble Gum."
Maybe they use real bubble gum in the ink.
Z
--
Z.
"B Davis" <macm...@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:B6DD4952.5650%macm...@cfl.rr.com...
john cline ii
"B Davis" wrote:
Don't EVEN tell me what they use in the Baby Lips Pink!
john cline ii who says:
Private Reserve Pink?
No thanks, I prefer QUINK!
(or Waterman!)
Thaddeus L. Olczyk
I think you are misreading the statement.
It seems to imply that if you want to dilute it you should use
distilled water. ( As opposed to say tap water. Probably a good idea
that way you don't get dissolved solid that yopu may otherwise get
from a tap. ) I don't think they are suggesting you dilute the ink.
Thaddeus L. Olczyk
>Another on ink so
>very new and fresh. Can one imagine what this stuff will look like in
>10-15 years?? Assuming it doesn't disolve the bottle first. LOL
>Frank
Don't go overboard Frank. You know that being an unstable suspension
does not necessarily mean the liquid will disolve glass or plastic.
Ben Zaborowsky
>
> "B Davis" wrote:
>
> > "But I have seen very
> > thick solid color sludge on the bottom of some PR ink. Esp Bubble
> Gum."
> >
> > Maybe they use real bubble gum in the ink.
>
> Don't EVEN tell me what they use in the Baby Lips Pink!
>
> john cline ii
Thank goodness they don't have a "Baby Butt Brown" :-)
--Ben
FDubiel
It seems to imply that if you want to dilute it you should use
distilled water. ( As opposed to say tap water. Probably a good idea
that way you don't get dissolved solid that yopu may otherwise get
from a tap. ) I don't think they are suggesting you dilute the ink.>>
>Dilute with distilled water.> I, uhh, think that means dilute the ink, if,
of course, one wants to dilute the ink. Whatever. As for distilled water i
can tell you no fountain pen ink I know of is made with distilled water. Its
simply not needed and far too expensive. In my 20 years in ink and dye labs
distilled water was rarely used. We probably used a couple gallons a month in
a 20 person lab, 900 people work force plant. Water is filtered, but thats
very different and very far from distilled. BTW, there are probably 100s of
times more solids in the ink itself, than any solids you would add from average
tap water. But in all cases its virtually zero in effect. A fountain pen uses
the liquid and applies it to paper. Wetting agents in the ink would disolve or
flush away most solids each time its filled. This is NOT like a steam iron
where the water is boiled and evaporated on board, so the solids remain. Plus
an iron uses literally 1000s of times more water so would have 1000s of more
solids to leave inside. I have never seen any water solids built up in any
pen in my entire life. Frank
Jailhouse Psych
> Okay... forgive me.
> 1. I have been using the Higgins Calligraphy Ink uneventfully in
> myLamy Safari for at least 18 months ... at, say, one filling a week,
> that's 70 or more refillings. Occasionally it would start to feel like
> it wanted a bath, so I gave it one. Warm water flushings, nothing
> more. Started on the first stroke, nib smooth as butter till the day
> it went missing.
> 2. That aside, could you add a bit of detail please.
> In what way is it not suitable for fountain pens?
> Understand ... I'm not disagreeing (after all its my little pelikano
> not working with it which prompted my original message) I just don't
> understand. Is it simply too thick for most fountain pens or is the
> chemical formulation such that it does actual damage?
>
> thanks in advance,
> Cam Morton
Prior to my discovery of fine fountain pens and inks, I had used Higgins
Fountain, Eternal and Calligraphy inks (all Black) in two all plastic piston
filler Pentallic Mark X pens for over 15 yrs. Daily writing: averaging one
complete refill per day. The internal chambers, nib thread sections and piston
seals are now completely trashed. The darkest of the trio, being the Black
Calligraphy dries rapidly from the feed, back to the piston, forming sharp,
cutting crystals. Filling, refilling, and removing the nib section with daily
use becomes increasing more difficult between cleanings and each time the pen
is disassembled the sharp crystals cut up the thread section of the nib, and
the area of the ink chamber that comes in contact with the piston.
With the exception of the discontinued Penman Sapphire, none of the commonly
available modern inks that I have used perform in such a destructive manner.
None of the commonly used FP inks require almost constant cleaning, and none
crystallize as quickly and destructively as the Higgins inks.
The Higgins Eternal & "Fountain" Blacks are not quite as destructive as the
Calligraphy, however, that comparison is merely relative.
The Higgins Calligraphy Black might be appropriate in an engineering style
Rapidographs because of the needle/plunger style nib, however, the destruction
of the drying crystals is no different in those pens than that which my
Pentallics suffered. Again, the ink dries quickly and backwards with air
contact, and the disassembly for cleaning cuts up the pen body.
Aside from being cheap and readily available in any mall arts & craft store
Higgins simply is not worth it. Considering Rotring "Brilliant" Black,
Pelican/Cross and Aurora Blacks are as black as it gets why suffer the constant
cleaning and pen damage?