how much iron in fountain pen blue-blacks?
MatthewK
ink, monte blanc's blue-black, lamy blue-black (bottle), or R&K
gall ink?
I'm just curious in fairly general terms as to how much "gall"
does the job in these inks. Guesses in ppm or any other unit
are welcome.
matthew
Aaron W. Hsu
I am curious about this as well, but I tend to think that it might be a
little difficult since I would expect that information to be held
private by the makers of the ink. Of course, I could be very wrong here,
so if someone happens to know, I'm all ears.
Aaron Hsu
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MatthewK
> In article <slrng7prhe....@e310.home>,
> MatthewK <Matt...@letterboxes.xx.org> wrote:
>>Anybody have an idea on how much "gall" is in diamine registrar
>>ink, monte blanc's blue-black, lamy blue-black (bottle), or R&K
>>gall ink?
>>
>>I'm just curious in fairly general terms as to how much "gall"
>>does the job in these inks. Guesses in ppm or any other unit
>>are welcome.
>
> I am curious about this as well, but I tend to think that it might be a
> little difficult since I would expect that information to be held
> private by the makers of the ink. Of course, I could be very wrong here,
> so if someone happens to know, I'm all ears.
>
Same here actually...I've been thinking of ways to experiment
with this. Maybe making a gallic ink and adding some mL by mL
to a bottle of dye and test the ink to see how little does the
job. The whole scenario is a nerdy mess :)
matthew
Aaron W. Hsu
I can't imagine that there is that much gall in something like
MontBlanc's Blue Black. The reason I mention this is because Mont
Blanc's are known from what I can tell for writing a little on the dry
side. Thus, if Mont Blanc actually issued out an ink as common as Blue
Black that had a lot of heavy deposits like gall in it, the amount of
repairs they would have to deal with would go up. I'm sure they have to
keep the ink thin.
Aaron
Bluesea
"Aaron W. Hsu" <arc...@illuminus.local> wrote in message
news:SaqdnXcuEuz5GRzV...@giganews.com...
That's what I thought from what I read and from the black and turquoise inks
I bought. I was surprised to find the MB Royal Blue, Violet, and Racing
Green to be nice and slick. I don't consider Sepia to be dry, either,
although it isn't like the others.
As for Blue-black, the instructions say:
"Important note: it is particularly important to clean the fountain pen
regularly if permanent ink (blue-black) is used, as the high solids content
of the ink can lead to deposits forming in the feed system."
--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi, but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.
MatthewK
>
>
> As for Blue-black, the instructions say:
>
> "Important note: it is particularly important to clean the fountain pen
> regularly if permanent ink (blue-black) is used, as the high solids content
> of the ink can lead to deposits forming in the feed system."
>
It was Frank dubiels opinion that the amount of gall in these
blue-black inks was very small and I think he was right on
here. So I think we are looking at very small amounts...I need
to look at my chem books and see if one can estimate solution
contents by ph values. How much gall ink would it take to make
water x ph? Not sure if that would give meaningful results or
not.
If not than it is adding mL to dyed water to figure out
molarityi of gal/best reaction.
When the gall reacts with oxygen it makes iron particles and
that is where the warning to clean pens comes from when using
MB ink. It is a solution until the ink reacts with oxygen and
turns the gall black. One of the ways of reducing this reaction
in the ink is to make it acidic.
matthew
Aaron W. Hsu
I think I started with the Sepia ink in the Meisterstuck, and compared
to the black Waterman that I was using in a Waterman pen before, Sepia
was pretty dry. It wasn't unpleasant, to be sure, but it was definitely
drier. I thought at first that this was due to the Extra Fine nib I was
using. However, when I started to use the Blue Black, it became
apparent how much drier the Sepia was comparitively. Granted, it's very
useable nonetheless. Then again, I noticed the difference the most on
long writing sessions or on paper that is very fine (and hence not prone
to rapid ink absorption) such as 100% Cotton Crane paper. This paper
takes the Blue Black much more steadily than the Sepia, thought neither
is a "bad" writer on that paper by any means.
>As for Blue-black, the instructions say:
>
>"Important note: it is particularly important to clean the fountain pen
>regularly if permanent ink (blue-black) is used, as the high solids content
>of the ink can lead to deposits forming in the feed system."
Yes, but in addition to that, they recommend cleaning maybe once every
month or three months, which is about twice as often as they normally
recommend IIRC. That's pretty rare in my book, especially considering
that I usually clean my pens at the Month mark regardless.
Aaron Hsu
Aaron W. Hsu
MatthewK <Matt...@letterboxes.xx.org> wrote:
>On 2008-07-19, Bluesea <this.a...@example.invalid> wrote:
>
>> As for Blue-black, the instructions say:
>>
>> "Important note: it is particularly important to clean the fountain pen
>> regularly if permanent ink (blue-black) is used, as the high solids content
>> of the ink can lead to deposits forming in the feed system."
>
>It was Frank dubiels opinion that the amount of gall in these
>blue-black inks was very small and I think he was right on
>here. So I think we are looking at very small amounts...I need
>to look at my chem books and see if one can estimate solution
>contents by ph values. How much gall ink would it take to make
>water x ph? Not sure if that would give meaningful results or
>not.
If we are going to be talking chemistry here, it should be relatively
trivial to just mix together the right solution with the ink and then
filter out the collected Iron particles, which should give you an
idea about the contents. I know that every elementary Chem Lab does
things like this in school, and Iron is certainly something that
should be easy to crystalize or whatever the proper term for it is.
Aaron W. Hsu
krishnananda <k...@ashram.in> wrote:
>In article <SaqdnXcuEuz5GRzV...@giganews.com>,
> arc...@illuminus.local (Aaron W. Hsu) wrote:
>
>> ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x)))
>
>
>CL-USER 1 > ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x)))
>
>Error: Undefined operator X in form (X X).
[...]
>:?
You presume that this is Common Lisp code. ;-) Try Scheme.
Joshua Judson Rosen
>
> Anybody have an idea on how much "gall" is in diamine registrar
> ink, monte blanc's blue-black, lamy blue-black (bottle), or R&K
> gall ink?
The body of your message says "gall", but the subject is "iron"; which
are you looking for?
--
Don't be afraid to ask (Lf.((Lx.xx) (Lr.f(rr)))).
MatthewK
> MatthewK <Matt...@letterboxes.xx.org> writes:
>>
>> Anybody have an idea on how much "gall" is in diamine registrar
>> ink, monte blanc's blue-black, lamy blue-black (bottle), or R&K
>> gall ink?
>
> The body of your message says "gall", but the subject is "iron"; which
> are you looking for?
>
I'm used "gall" as reference to iron gall ink, and not galls
that iron gall ink can be made from or anything else.
matthew
Joshua Judson Rosen
So, by "gall", you mean "iron", and not "gall" (i.e.: gallotannic
acid)? In other words, you're asking how much /iron/ is in the ink?
Or are you asking what the molarity of the of the ink is regarding /iron gall/?
Are you trying to figure the pH of an ink or something like that?
Bluesea
"Aaron W. Hsu" <arc...@illuminus.local> wrote in message
> In article <6edp1qF...@mid.individual.net>,
> Bluesea <thedeep_bluesea@myrealboxTRA$H.com> wrote:
>>
>>That's what I thought from what I read and from the black and turquoise
>>inks
>>I bought. I was surprised to find the MB Royal Blue, Violet, and Racing
>>Green to be nice and slick. I don't consider Sepia to be dry, either,
>>although it isn't like the others.
>
> I think I started with the Sepia ink in the Meisterstuck, and compared
> to the black Waterman that I was using in a Waterman pen before, Sepia
> was pretty dry. It wasn't unpleasant, to be sure, but it was definitely
> drier. I thought at first that this was due to the Extra Fine nib I was
> using. However, when I started to use the Blue Black, it became
> apparent how much drier the Sepia was comparitively. Granted, it's very
> useable nonetheless. Then again, I noticed the difference the most on
> long writing sessions or on paper that is very fine (and hence not prone
> to rapid ink absorption) such as 100% Cotton Crane paper. This paper
> takes the Blue Black much more steadily than the Sepia, thought neither
> is a "bad" writer on that paper by any means.
I never did try the B-B.
I've got the MB Sepia in a Kaweco Sport ED which is like a Fine and Waterman
Havana in a Pelikan M400 XF. I know these nibs aren't fair comparisons, but
the Sepia is doing as well for me as the Havana. It doesn't feel as dry as
the MB Turquoise which is uncomfortably dry.
>>As for Blue-black, the instructions say:
>>
>>"Important note: it is particularly important to clean the fountain pen
>>regularly if permanent ink (blue-black) is used, as the high solids
>>content
>>of the ink can lead to deposits forming in the feed system."
>
> Yes, but in addition to that, they recommend cleaning maybe once every
> month or three months, which is about twice as often as they normally
> recommend IIRC. That's pretty rare in my book, especially considering
> that I usually clean my pens at the Month mark regardless.
That looks backwards to me. I put the sheet away and am too lazy to retrieve
it, but the way I remember is 3 months for the other MB inks and more
frequently for the Blue-black. It doesn't matter in the long run because
you're cleaning often enough to please anyone's concept of frequent cleaning
and I'm not using MB blue-black.