More on Pelikan ink problems
MarkH
fdu...@aol.com
>
> See:
>
> http://members2.boardhost.com/pentrace/msg/75611.html
Very interesting. Some of you may remember the angry thread last year
when Paul made the silly remark here that Pelikan black was the most
trusted ink on earth. I said that was among the more absurd things ever
said here and pointed out past problems Pelikan has had with ink. Well,
the problems are obviously back. Once again I'll say Pelikan ink is
usually very good, but its obvious they have a totally indifferent
attitude to quality. Its just colored water and they can't get it
right. The only reason something like this happens is indifferent help
with no supervision at the factory coupled with no QC testing at all. I
might add I always refill my ink jet cartridges, and I found almost
without exception Pelikan refill kits to be useless and ruin the
cartridge in question. Most local stores stopped selling such Pelikan
kits or discounted their $30 kits to $5 or less to get rid of them.
Refilling ink jet cartridges isn't always easy, nor always dependable.
Still it became obvious to me that whatever they were selling in their
kits would not work in the printers listed on the packages, at least in
my case with three different printers. Frank
Paul G
<fdu...@aol.com> wrote in message news:3D11B8...@aol.com...
> MarkH wrote:
> >
> > See:
> >
> > http://members2.boardhost.com/pentrace/msg/75611.html
>
> Very interesting. Some of you may remember the angry thread last year
> when Paul made the silly remark here that Pelikan black was the most
> trusted ink on earth. I said that was among the more absurd things ever
> said here and pointed out past problems Pelikan has had with ink. Well,
> the problems are obviously back.
Paul never said "Pelikan black was the most trusted ink on earth" and I believe
the thread was about contaminating the bottle by returning ink to it...."
The thread became "angry" only after you misquoted me...as you do often...but
then again, you "wrote the da book" and I'm just "silly."
Back on topic...I've have seen/heard a few stories of this happening again.
I've also noticed since the Chartpak folks took over, the older label bottles of
ink are being shipped again. The newer black and gold labels are not.
Still, contaminated is contaminated. (you may quote me)
I remain,
Pelikanyo Paul (lurker)
fdu...@aol.com
>
> <fdu...@aol.com> wrote in message news:3D11B8...@aol.com...
> > MarkH wrote:
> > >
> > > See:
> > >
> > > http://members2.boardhost.com/pentrace/msg/75611.html
> >
> > Very interesting. Some of you may remember the angry thread last year
> > when Paul made the silly remark here that Pelikan black was the most
> > trusted ink on earth. I said that was among the more absurd things ever
> > said here and pointed out past problems Pelikan has had with ink. Well,
> > the problems are obviously back.
>
> Paul never said "Pelikan black was the most trusted ink on earth" and I believe
> the thread was about contaminating the bottle by returning ink to it...."
> The thread became "angry" only after you misquoted me...as you do often...but
> then again, you "wrote the da book" and I'm just "silly."
>
> I remain,
> Pelikanyo Paul (lurker)
Goggle search: and I rest my case----
Message 3 in thread
From: PelikanDRP (pelik...@aol.com)
Subject: Re: Pelikan 4001 Black ink sludge
Newsgroups: alt.collecting.pens-pencils
View this article only
Date: 2000/08/02
Frank has been claiming this for years, since "someone" at a pen show
sold a
bad lot to "someone" many years ago. You get what you pay for.
Did this bottle have the new gold label?
Pelikan 4001 is the most trusted name in ink.
---
"Minds and fountain pens will work when willed,
but minds, like fountain pens, must first be filled"
fdu...@aol.com
wounds. But one thing worse than being mis-quoted is being accused of
misquoting someone when if fact the quote was correct. For any doubts,
or to see the entire thread the longish link is below. The link seems
to open on any random post, so scroll to the first and read on. I
haven't gone through it all but the "Most trusted ink" was number 3 in
the thread. My response if harsh, was typed like all posts on the spur
of the moment and I do apologize if Paul or anyone was offend. It wasn't
my intent. We tend to forget every word we post is always retrievable
thru a search. I suspect we have all posted some things we aren't proud
of. This is, after all, a discussion group. In a discussion one
doesn't expect their words to last forever and can always be recalled
with a few clicks. Peace! Frank
MarkH
See:
http://members2.boardhost.com/pentrace/msg/75698.html
And.. of course, I had to have the last word....
On Thu, 20 Jun 2002 05:26:13 GMT, MarkH <mark...@dnaixyz.com> wrote:
>See:
>
>http://members2.boardhost.com/pentrace/msg/75611.html
>
BLandolf
> Paul never said "Pelikan black was the most trusted ink on earth" ...
Hey Paul... Even if you had said the "on earth" part (which you didn't),
you might not be too far off. I mean, who knows? To my knowledge,
nobody has ever done a world-wide survey. What started this anyway? A
few bottles of moldy ink? Cripes, with all the hubbub around here,
you'd think we were talking about a crisis on the scale of Sheaffer's
Prussian Blue debacle. Yep... thems were the good ol' days. :)
Bern
so what
>Paul never said "Pelikan black was the most trusted ink on earth"
<SMOOOCH!> Pelikanyo! where ya been, doc?
delete what doesn't belong there
Satrap
I find delusions of grandeur to be absolutely true
fdu...@aol.com
I found the remarks from Giovanna Finamore to be off the mark
technically. I don't know where he is based, and maybe something is
lost in a translation. If not, its obvious this man known little about
ink. He say "Drawing ink is dye-based, and the particles in it will
most definitely damage a fountain pen. Fountain pen ink, on the other
hand, is a water-based ink." Both are dye based. Uhh, what else
gives fountain pen ink its color? FP inks use anailine dyes that
totally mix with water and color that water forever. Some drawing inks,
as do paints, use SOLID particles of color--that is what pigments
are--that never can disolve. Pigments can damage any fountain pen in
terms of flow and clogs. Later he says, "fountain pen ink is a purely
organic product [water, pigment]." If thats true the ink doesn't belong
in a fountain pen, since NO good fountain pen uses pigments. In fact
its possible that some pigments could be causing the current Pelikan ink
problems. Perhaps someone dumped in pigment by mistake instead of
analine dye at the plant. He also mentions a staff of ink chemists both
in Europe and in the US. I'd say the odds of a US based chemist working
on Pelikan fountain pen ink full time are less than the moon being made
of green ink. In fact in 20 years in the ink and dye industry I never
heard of any chemist doing anything with any fountain pen ink. Its such
simple stuff it was always treated with the attitude its something thats
very hard to screw up. Being a large ink and dye company I am sure
Pelikan employs chemists, but I doubt very seriously they do much if
anything at all with fountain pen inks. Its like saying to a sick
person, "our hospital employes a staff of doctors." That doesn't mean a
thing until a qualified doctor sees and treats you. So while
technically correct that Pelikan employes chemists, I doubt any of them
here, and perhaps even in Germany are working on their fountain pen inks
very much. Frank
fdu...@aol.com
> Hey Paul... Even if you had said the "on earth" part (which you didn't),
> you might not be too far off. I mean, who knows? To my knowledge,
> nobody has ever done a world-wide survey. What started this anyway? A
> few bottles of moldy ink?
Well, more typical remarks from the B. Facts, truth and logic mean
nothing at all. Sad. Frank
Patrick Lamb
>
> MarkH wrote:
> >
> > Chartpak responded on Pentrace to my post:
> >
> > See:
> > http://members2.boardhost.com/pentrace/msg/75698.html
Don'cha love the line about "we use sterile water?" As if you couldn't
autoclave a tank full of muddy, rust-filled water and have it sterile.
It would still be "contaminated" in the sense of being full of
particles, which is what might be causing the problem, but it wouldn't
have any germs in it, so it would be sterile!
Pat
--
Apologies to those easily confused. Address is spam-resistant.
Correct email address like pdlamb 'round-about comcast point net.
Giovanni Abrate
Giovanni = John (male)
Ciao!
Giovanni
<fdu...@aol.com> wrote in message news:3D1316...@aol.com...
Giovanni Abrate
Giovanna = Jane (female)
Giovanni = John (male)
Sorry... today I am slow in getting my brain into gear!
fdu...@aol.com
fountain pen ink and an ink that uses pigments. Whe dye is added to the
water in fountain pen ink that dye changes the water forever to the
color of the dye. Its a perm change. The water is literally
transformed to the color and will remain that way more or less forever
or unless changed by other actions such as light, air, etc. No fountain
pen ink should ever need to be shaken or stirred. The ink at the top of
a bottle and the bottom should be the same even after it sits for
decades without movement. Pigment based inks, on the other hand, like
paints use solid particles of color that cannot ever disolve. Hence any
ink or paint with pigments should be stired or shaken before use to
redistribute the particles of color throughout the liquid base, be it
water, oil, latex, or whatever. If not shaken or stired the pigmenst
will settle to the bottom of the conatiner and cause massive build of of
strong color at the base, with far weaker or even no color at the top.
The pigment will pass from the brush or nib and come to rest on the
surface of the paper or wood, metal, etc they are applied to. Many
particles will remain in the pen or brush unless throughly cleaned after
each use. Even with good cleaning particle build up takes place to some
extent in the brush or pen. This is why pigments have no place in
fountain pen inks. Fountain pen ink, as I say so many times, is
bascially colored water. Pigment based ink is bascially a form of
paint. Frank
fdu...@aol.com
>
> Actually, I should have written:
> Giovanna = Jane (female)
> Giovanni = John (male)
> Sorry... today I am slow in getting my brain into gear!
> Giovanni
>
it wasn't my intent. FD
Giovanni Abrate
Take care,
Giovanni
<fdu...@aol.com> wrote in message news:3D1325...@aol.com...
BLandolf
> Well, more typical remarks from the B. Facts, truth and logic mean
> nothing at all. Sad. Frank
Well, Frank... What about this is illogical? I've not seen more than a
few posts about this latest supposed ink crisis. And if you account for
the fact that it's the same person posting over and over (and cross-
posting to Pen Lovers, Zoss, and acpp), the magnitude of the problem is
indeed small... nowhere near the magnitude of Sheaffer's Prussian Blue
debacle (which resulted in a recall and discontinuation of that line of
ink, and disrupted their ink production for a couple of years while they
went back to the ol' drawing board, correct?). And since no one has
actually analyzed the ink to determine what the "gunk" is (gunk is the
factual, truthful, and logical term you often use), we don't know that
it's anything other than mold or something of that nature. Nor do we
know anything about its source. The best thing to do in this case
(although it would deny you the fun of libeling the company) would be
for Mark (and whoever else has a bad bottle of ink) to send their
affected/infected bottles to Chartpak so the company can analyze the
contents and take proper action. I'm absolutely sure they'll compensate
Mark for his trouble.... They are after all one of the oldest and most
respected names in pens and inks. Contact info:
Chartpak, Inc.
1 River Road
Leeds, MA 01053
800-628-1910 x265
Bernadette
fdu...@aol.com
You bore me too much to answer. Other than to mention the blue Sheaffer
thing happened around 1920 and was rectified within a month or so. Of
course that little fact B doesn't post. I have never met a single
person who remembers it or has even seen the ink. In fact the only
source I know of on this story was revealed by Walter Sheaffer himself
in his writing of of how Skrip was developed and how the ink was
recalled even before Skrip really got off the ground. FD
MarkH
You are correct that I have posted in several places, and have been
somewhat activist concerning this issue.
My reasons for doing this are three -
1. - To find out if the problem was only with the 6 bottles I have, or
if this is a systemic problem. If its my problem only, I would dump
the ink and buy more - Pelikan black is probably my favorite ink. In
the end, I want a reliable supply of a reliable ink...
At the current time, effectively communicating with the pen community
means posting in 3 places - a.c.p-p, Pentrace, and Zoss. Thus the
cross posts.
I received enough response, both on-line and off-line, to persuade me
there is a problem.
2. If it is a problem with current production, to warn others. Before
I figured out what was going on, I had 5 or 6 different pens clog,
assumed there was a problem with the pen/feed adjustment, cleaned out
and refilled pens with the same defective ink to get the same bad
results, opened a second bottle and filled the same pens, found more
pieces floating around, and generally wasted a bunch of time. I don't
think I have done any permanent damage to a any pen, but I sure had a
bunch of pieces float out of the pens while I was cleaning them. In at
least one case, I needed to disassemble nib and feed to get all the
junk out.
Maybe I'm particularly dense and others would have figured this out
immediately, but I thought I could save someone else the time....
3. I guess I must admit that I think the chances of Chartpak taking
action are much more likely if this issue is publicly aired. I'm sure
they are a reliable company, but I have had conversations with them on
several occasions and while they are trying hard, I don't think they
yet know all that much about fine fountain pens - this is a new area
for them.
Having said all this, I don't plan on posting any more until I have
more information. I was tremendously impressed that Chartpak responded
directly on Pentrace, and believe that's a good sign that they will
investigate the problem, and either tell me that I am completely wrong
(which would be ok, I would just trash my supply and start over), or
tell me that they found a problem and will fix it - also ok.
mh
On Fri, 21 Jun 2002 12:13:30 -0400, BLandolf <avai...@upon.request>
wrote:
fdu...@aol.com
>
> You are correct that I have posted in several places, and have been
> somewhat activist concerning this issue.
>
> My reasons for doing this are three -
>
> 1. - To find out if the problem was only with the 6 bottles I have, or
> if this is a systemic problem.
Well put. However in response to your posts several others have come
forward to tell of problems with current Pelikan ink. In blue as well as
black. A few years ago Pelikan admitted they also had problems with
blue. (Take my word for it, and someone could find that info thru a
search I guess.) This is all separate from the problem of current bad
green Pelikan ink which is a known issue. So its not one person with a
few bad bottles. This does not mean its a very wide spread problem, but
it does indicate a concurrent on going problems to some extent at
least. The response on Pentrace from the company was nice, but highly
misinformed in technical aspects of ink. Thats not a complaint
against Gia who probably did the best she could based on her knowledge
or what she was told to say. In closing I'd have to say the some of the
black problems do not sound like mold or contamination. It does sound
more like pigment in the ink. Anyone who has stired old paint knows the
stringy threads settling pigments can form. If Pelikan drawing and
fountain pen ink are made near each other in the same plant, as is most
likely, its easy to understand how someone could add the wrong stuff
into a vat. Or even some sort of cross conection thru pipes, valves or
such. However be it mold, pigment, or anything else--problems have
been reported too many times by too many people for too many years.
Hopefully Pelikan can and will correct the problems once and for all.
Pelikan as I have said many times, is usually an excellent ink. Frank
Paul G
P-
<fdu...@aol.com> wrote in message news:3D128A...@aol.com...
Paul G
<fdu...@aol.com> wrote in message news:3D1286...@aol.com...
Paul G
P-
"so what" <chgos...@aol.comorange> wrote in message
news:20020621062628...@mb-fa.aol.com...
fdu...@aol.com
>
> yup...I did not say "Pelikan black was the most trusted ink on earth."
>
Show me where I used quotation marks in the above? I made sure I
didn't use quotation marks because I was working from memory. "Pelikan
4001 is the most trusted name in ink" means about the same and bottom
line is you denided saying it until confronted with your own post.
Let's drop it. Nothing to be gained eitehr way on this. As you say,
its boring. Frank
Paul G
more dramatic by adding a word or two.
A quote is a quote...I was simply clarifying the accuracy
<fdu...@aol.com> wrote in message news:3D13D4...@aol.com...
Quill57
I have had a problem with this ink because it stops flowing after a few
minutes and then the pen stops writing completely. After flushing and
filling with another ink the pen then writes fine. I examined the bottle
closely and I found a gummy precipitate on the cap of the bottle and I
noticed small bites of precipitate in the flush water coming out of my pen.
I extracted a piece of the gummy precipitate which was about 1/4 inch long
and tried to dissolve it in water. It turned the water burgundy and reduced
in size a bit but did not dissolve. Upon closer inspection I noticed that
down the inside neck of the bottle I see what appears to be a grayish white
mold. When I examine it with a magnifying glass I can see small filaments of
the mold. This is a little hard to see and the mold is growing in the area
where the ink level once was a few days ago before I removed some. I find
this very unusual since the ink was only purchased about two months ago and
it was only opened one week ago.
"MarkH" <mark...@dnaixyz.com> wrote in message
news:cop2hu89qn5lls88m...@4ax.com...
> See:
>
> http://members2.boardhost.com/pentrace/msg/75611.html
>
>
fdu...@aol.com
>
> I recently bought two bottles of Pelikan Brilliant Black Fountain Pen Ink.
> I have had a problem with this ink because it stops flowing after a few
> minutes and then the pen stops writing completely. After flushing and
> filling with another ink the pen then writes fine. I examined the bottle
> closely and I found a gummy precipitate on the cap of the bottle and I
> noticed small bites of precipitate in the flush water coming out of my pen.
> I extracted a piece of the gummy precipitate which was about 1/4 inch long
> and tried to dissolve it in water. It turned the water burgundy and reduced
> in size a bit but did not dissolve. Upon closer inspection I noticed that
> down the inside neck of the bottle I see what appears to be a grayish white
> mold. When I examine it with a magnifying glass I can see small filaments of
> the mold. This is a little hard to see and the mold is growing in the area
> where the ink level once was a few days ago before I removed some. I find
> this very unusual since the ink was only purchased about two months ago and
> it was only opened one week ago.
>
You report is an just one more urban legand. Everyone who reads this
board knows Pelikan is the most trusted black ink ever made. Reports of
problems with this most trusted ink are akin to reports of the Loch Ness
monster who is said to live in the murkey fungus and mold infested
blackish water of Loch Ness. No one has ever proved Nessie to really
exist in spite of scientific study for decades. Its all a figment of
the mind and optical illusions caused by reflections of a shiny 14kt nib
from the sun causing spots and stringy illusions to appear before one's
eyes. Any reports of Pelikan ink being made from geniuine Loch Ness
water are also an urban legand. Well, no one has reported little
Nessies moving in Pelikan black ink. Hmm, maybe you better have a
camera ready. :) Frank
Quarter Horseman
bottles purchased in May. I have some I'm using from about a year ago
and I like to use the old stuff first, but curiosity got the better of
me. When I took the caps off, there was the slime across the top of
the bottles, sort of gooey. The ink itself has a bit of a reddish
tint to it. You can see it when you invert the bottle and look at the
color of the ink draining off the side of the glass. Could find no
date code on the bottle or box.
QH
so what
Frank declared:
>No one has ever proved Nessie to really
>exist in spite of scientific study for decades. Its all a figment of
>the mind and optical illusions caused by reflections of a shiny 14kt nib
satrap sobbed:
does this mean there's no *Santa* either?!!
Nancy Handy
> Quill57 wrote:
> > Upon closer inspection I noticed.... what appears to be a grayish white
> > mold.
> You report is an just one more urban legand. Everyone who reads this
> board knows Pelikan is the most trusted black ink ever made. Reports of
> problems with this most trusted ink are akin to reports of the Loch Ness
> monster who is said to live in the murkey fungus and mold infested
> blackish water of Loch Ness. No one has ever proved Nessie to really
> exist in spite of scientific study for decades. Its all a figment of
> the mind and optical illusions caused by reflections of a shiny 14kt nib
> from the sun causing spots and stringy illusions to appear before one's
> eyes. Any reports of Pelikan ink being made from geniuine Loch Ness
> water are also an urban legand. Well, no one has reported little
> Nessies moving in Pelikan black ink. Hmm, maybe you better have a
> camera ready. :) Frank
Nessie rebuttal:
I will come out of lurkdown (literally) to respond to the insulting
insinuation that I am nothing more than an urban legend.
I prefer to be called the Loch Ness Creature, not monster
thankyouverymuch! The much poo-pooed, bally-hooed Pelikan Black ink
that you speak of was subcontracted out for me to manufacture some time
ago. Moldy? You betcha! You try making ink in the Loch Ness. Trust
in my ink! It's like a shot of penicillin everytime you write.
As far as nobody proving I exist, well it's certainly not *my* fault.
Everytime I surfaced to make my existence known, the first thing I saw
was one of many fishing boats with a typical man holding a beer in one
hand and a point-and-shoot in another. Surprise, surprise, the pictures
always came out blurry! Hey lab partner, ever heard of a camera with
manual controls over the focus, shutter speed, and aperture??? If I was
a male, you'd better believe you'd have figured out how to get a good
picture of me by now. I am sure it is some kind of misogynist thing
("Oh it's only a female monster, let's see what kind of pictures we can
get with this cheap disposable camera"). Send Annie Lebowitz to do a
photo shoot and she'll make me look like a super model.
Right not I'm working on a deal with Krone for my own Limited Edition,
but we're in disagreement over how my DNA is to be extracted. I'll keep
you posted on that.
I just vant to be alone to write my fan letters to Tom Cruise with my
Mont Blanc 149 and my most trusted Pelikan Black ink.
Back to lurkdom,
Nessie
ps- If you see that nice Jacques Cousteau, say hi for me. I haven't
seen him in decades- must've been something I said. Oh, and please
don't eat fish because it... it... it causes impotence.
fdu...@aol.com
Thanks, Nancy for some additional well needed humor in this thread.
Keeping a sense of humor in this hobby is something more of us would be
well advised to learn. :) Great post! Frank
fdu...@aol.com
>
> > Nessie rebuttal:
> >
> > I just vant to be alone to write my fan letters to Tom Cruise with my
> > Mont Blanc 149 and my most trusted Pelikan Black ink.
> >
> > Back to lurkdom,
> > Nessie
My Dearest Nessie--
How are things at the Loch? Its good to hear from you. I've been
living in retirement here in the Black Lagoon for quite a while now.
Hollywood no longer calls. At least its peaceful, except for some pen
company representatives who keeps pumping water from my lagoon and
filling it in tiny bottles with a bird's beak on them. Strange. One of
these days I will catch them and claw them silly. Your Loch is far
larger than my Lagoon and I'm getting concerned about the Lagoon depth.
I overheard these guys saying "Just what we need. This Lagoon is
blacker than the Loch..." Say, do you have any recent photos? I
know, photos are a problem, but anything you send will be bwtween us.
Hey, its lonely here in the Lagoon.... Everyone around here calls me
The Creature from the Black Lagoon, but, you Nessie, can call me
Creat. In fact I am your number one fan. Tom Cruise? Yesh, well let
him take a cruise on my Lagoon and see what happens.
Your most humble and obedient servant,
Creat.
Wedge Watson
(rolling on the floor laughing my ass of and scaring the cat)
--
OK!!
SO wHOsE wIsEsGuY iDEa WaS it
To Put The CapSloCk key RiGht NeXt
To The sHiFt keY???
Seek not to confound me, as I am dim-witted and slow of study
Molon Labe!!
Curtis L. Russell
>does this mean there's no *Santa* either?!!
I believe that the Marx Brothers long ago established that there was
no Sanity Clause. A fact re-established on the Use Net daily...
Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD. (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
If there was a Sanity Clause in my marriage contract, my wife would be
a free woman today.
Nancy Handy
> My Dearest Nessie--
>
> How are things at the Loch? Its good to hear from you. I've been
> living in retirement here in the Black Lagoon for quite a while now.
> Hollywood no longer calls. At least its peaceful, except for some pen
> company representatives who keeps pumping water from my lagoon and
> filling it in tiny bottles with a bird's beak on them. Strange. One of
> these days I will catch them and claw them silly. Your Loch is far
> larger than my Lagoon and I'm getting concerned about the Lagoon depth.
> I overheard these guys saying "Just what we need. This Lagoon is
> blacker than the Loch..." Say, do you have any recent photos? I
> know, photos are a problem, but anything you send will be bwtween us.
> Hey, its lonely here in the Lagoon.... Everyone around here calls me
> The Creature from the Black Lagoon, but, you Nessie, can call me
> Creat. In fact I am your number one fan. Tom Cruise? Yesh, well let
> him take a cruise on my Lagoon and see what happens.
> Your most humble and obedient servant,
> Creat.
Hey Creat,
Great to hear from you Creat!
Things are not looking good here. While your area remains a best kept
secret, a peaceful paradise, mine has become an over-commercialized tee
shirt selling haven filled with groups of loud, marauding drunken teens
yelling my name night and day. It's tough being a celebrity!
Unlike you, I never got the big Hollywood movie deals because I've been
deemed "unphotogenic" by slow witted tourists who couldn't snap a decent
picture if their lives depended on it. So I'm planning to buy a 5
million megapixel digital camera with a self-timer to see if I can do
what the local yokels can't. I'm waiting for the new Nikon 5700 to
debut on July 3rd. Then I plan to get one sweet movie deal (with Tom
Hanks?) and afterwards I'm packing up my squeeky toys and checking out
of this murky trailer trash dump and heading up your way. I saw your
Black Lagoon featured on Lagoons of the Rich and Famous - very nice, I
love what you did with the place! One can't have too much chintz!
I'm peeved at the local weaselly politicians. A while back some little
thumb-sucker stood on the shore and called my name for OVER TWO HOURS!
What a little migraine maker, my head was pounding! I figured that I was
overdue for a public appearance and swam to shore and looked right in
the tot's face. Big thrill, right? WRONG!!! Darned if he didn't
scream blood-and-guts murder! Scared the hell out of *me*! That night
I got a visit from not one but two local politicians who decreased my
tourist stipend by 30% because they say that *I* lacked good judgment!
Can you imagine?!!
My analyst says I need to toughen up my reputation (like yours!) so I'm
planning on chewing up the next few Krone reps who stop by. No great
loss there.
I should be swimming up your way towards the end of the summer to
inspect my new digs. I'll send you a postcard soon written in my most
exalted Pelikan black ink, of course. Pelikan black ink - the healthy
alternative, "a little mold'll do ya".
Looking forward to some peace and quiet,
Nessie
fdu...@aol.com
My Dearest Nessie--
Yes I got the Hollywood deals. But that was in the days of 3-D. People
lined up for hours and wore those silly cardboard glasses to see me.
Today people are lazy and want to watch a movie without such a gimmick
on the heads. So what if you walked out of the theater with a headace
and a few people went blind. Small loss. Ahh well worth it to see me
as I should be seen. I'm ready for when 3-D makes its comback. My
agent has been writing letters on my behalf using only the finest and
deepest of my Lagoon slime that he tells me in now on sale in silly
little glass bottles and called ink. Hah! Remember my friend, Sally
the Octupus? She will show them what real ink is like. She promises to
squirt those guys right in the eye next time they try pumping my Lagoon.
Shes hopeful to get a contract when they see how black her ink can be.
True my place is kinda off the beaten path. At least you have company
and get lots of attention. Not mention the sound of distant bagpipes
daily in the mist. I'd like to discover how those Pelikan guys ever
found my Lagoon. The Parker people told me they would keep it a secret
when Superchrome was discontinued. I' didn't miss the Superchrome deal
since I was a famous star at the time and who needed a little extra ink
money anyhow?
Nessie what are you doing to me? Bad enough tears form in my eyes when
I hear bagpipes. First its Tom cruise. Now Tom Hanks. This fetish you
have for "Toms" needs to end. I assure you the 'thing" between me and
Sally is long over. I did have trouble keeping her arms off me, but
well, you understand she was kinda like, all arms. I remain your
number one fan.
Creat.
Quill57
little "off" and now it is developing a moldy smell. The mold started on
the sides of the bottle near the top and now it is slowly building up on the
surface. I wonder what they use for a mold retardant in this stuff. I have
had bottles of Quink and Script for almost 20 years with no problem. Quink
must use phenol as a retardant because that is the odor it has.
"Quarter Horseman" <Quarter...@penvillage.com> wrote in message
news:e6c2d89d.02062...@posting.google.com...
MarkH
drink?) that phenol can no longer be used.
mh
On Mon, 24 Jun 2002 21:20:15 -0500, "Quill57" <qui...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
fdu...@aol.com
>
> I have been told that to make the ink perfectly safe (perhaps to
> drink?) that phenol can no longer be used.
>
preervatives or mold inhibitors at all. Most never did. Usually there
is no need at all for it if the ink is made correctly. Take water as it
comes from the tap in most well populated areas, put it in a clean
sealed jar and in 50 years the water will stay clean in 90% of the
cases. I'm not saying one should drink it, but it probably wouldn't kill
you either. :) The usual city water (of course not all water systems
are equal) supply is treated well enough to keep mold, slime or whatever
from forming with chlorine and other chemicals. Many dyes also contain
varied agents to kill bacteria. Most wetting agents also have some
treatment to retard mold. So if one makes ink from treated water,
treated wetting agents, and treated dye, to add additional treatment
isn't necessary. The final key is simply to keep the mixing equipment is
kept clean (make sure the help doesn't toss in a half eaten sandwich or
fling cigar butts into the mixing vat) and its packaged in clean
bottles. Simple and basic. The only reason to add anything to retard
mold and bacteria to ink would be if the incoming water supply had been
tested and been found to contain high bacteria counts. Even then,
unless the ink is made out in the sticks with no municipal water
treatment plant serving the area, its usually a government problem.
Although as a short term fix perhaps only then may a decision might be
taken to add additional chemicals to ink. However I never heard of it
being done in the 20 years I worked in the industry in my area. Yes we
always tested the water daily. Quality varied, but filtering and
treatment necessary was usually more of a mechanical nature, to remove
rust or such. Frank
Quill57
bought and I still smell phenol. When did they stop using it? Is it just
in the USA or did they stop in Europe as well?news:o7pfhuk90s1ntfehv...@4ax.com...
fdu...@aol.com
The final key is simply to keep the mixing equipment is
> kept clean (make sure the help doesn't toss in a half eaten sandwich or
> fling cigar butts into the mixing vat)
BTW I might add that the above is a very serious problem in many ink and
dye plants. In fact its perhaps the most likely cause of mold or
whatever eventually growing in ink, along with occasional insects or
even mice or rats that could crawl into a mixing vat. To some extent
pests can be controled and I never worked in an ink plant that didn't
have regular pest control programs. But its just human nature to
without thinking dump the last few drops of a cup of coffee or can of
soda into an open vat of liquid. Maybe even take a leak in it if no one
else is around and the rest rooms are a far walk. :) I don't care
how much the help is told not to do it--it happens. Almost every week
we would find cigar butts (the only proof was those with a plastic end,
since the butt itself disolves), remains of what might have been plastic
sandwich wrappers, even empty soda cans in the bottom of ink vats. Our
policy was one warning, then fired if caught, But how do you catch
someone? Not easy. The use of close circuit TV cameras could help,
but I know back then we suggested it and the union said it was an
invasion of privacy. (...sigh...) So the main answer is to have well
trained help thats well paid and takes pride in their work. Thats not
always easy in an industrial plant. This is not meant to say the
workers are slobs or ruin ink for spite. Most help is dedicated and
careful, but it only taks one out of 50 or 100 who is sloppy or
spiteful, or even on drugs... Frank
DovR
> Actually, I should have written:
> Giovanna = Jane (female)
> Giovanni = John (male)
> Sorry... today I am slow in getting my brain into gear!
> Giovanni
>
And all from the biblical Jochanan root ;-)
So "hoo" is he and "hee" is "she" and for some strange reason, sorry
feminists, God always referred to as He. Then again she is part of our ribs,
and what in God's earth would we (the common he plural) do with out her.
DovR
> here's another attempt to explain the difference between a dye based
> fountain pen ink and an ink that uses pigments. Whe dye is added to the
> water in fountain pen ink that dye changes the water forever to the
> color of the dye. Its a perm change. The water is literally
> transformed to the color and will remain that way more or less forever
> or unless changed by other actions such as light, air, etc.
So Frank on 1-10 scale IYO what are best inks ?
fdu...@aol.com
> So Frank on 1-10 scale IYO what are best inks ?
Tisk Tisk, you know thats in Da book. For unenlightened ones, from one
to ten Skrip and Quink. Period. Most others are OK, but nothing comes
close to S and Q. Waterman has many fans and its probably number 3, but
has undergone so many changes in the past 30 years it gives me slight
pause to state flatly its with S and Q. S and Q have or are undergoing
changes as well. So my real number 3 are older inks like Carters,
Sanford, etc. But ANY ink should work fine in ANY pen. Any problem
either way and something is very wrong with ink or the pen. Like gas in
a car. Most people just put gas in, and the average buyer isn't super
loyal about a brand. The odds of getting a terrible or contaminated
tank of gas in the average drivers lifetime are slim, yes it happes but
its very rare. Ink should be the same. One bad bottle from a company
out of 10,000 is a terrible record. One out of maybe a million or so
might be undertsandable. So if ink is good only 99.9% of the time--that
a very poor record. It should be more like 99.999% of the time. In
other words to paraphrase the stats about flying you should be able to
buy a bottle of ink daily for 3000 years before you get a bad one.
Well, I personally have never seen even one really bad bottle of S or Q
(in blue or blue black--the only colors I use) from the past 60 or so
years. Frank
fdu...@aol.com
> Well, I personally have never seen even one really bad bottle of S or Q
> (in blue or blue black--the only colors I use) from the past 60 or so
> years. Frank
Before someone asks--other colors are usually more suspect in all inks.
Blacks has more and stronger colors in it, but in most cases is fine as
well in spite of age. Other colors? All bets are off since they are
now and usually have been made is such small quanities that quality
varys from lot to lot to some extent in all brands. Red is perhaps the
only other color made in large enough quanity to be stable for decades,
and I haven't seen any bad red in S and Q since WW2. As for S and Q I
have had 1000s of greens, violets, browns, and such and again never saw
a bad one. However some of the real odd colors made in the past 5 or so
years I'd suspect no matter what the brand is in terms of being always
perfect and remaining so for 50 or more years. Frank
Ian
>Red is perhaps the
>only other color made in large enough quanity to be stable for decades,
>and I haven't seen any bad red in S and Q since WW2.
Frank,
When you write things like that, you will understand why I thought you
were at least 90! :) No disrespect meant. I have Da Book, and
generally find your posts quite educational. But as a (mostly) lurker
on acp-p for the past few years, I had the distinct impression, due to
your experience, knowledge, and writings such as the one above, that
you must be a very old guy.
Then I saw the online video of you giving a workshop at a pen show in
1999... I'm 48 and you don't look much older than me!!
I just found it funny that I was somewhat disappointed... I had you
pegged as the Yoda of fountain pens!
:)
Ian
fdu...@aol.com
I'm 54 and literally been reparing pens for 49 years. Hey, thats in the
book too in the intro. But it wasn't till I was 7 or so and we were
forced to use dip or fountain pens in school that I set up a near
business repairing pens for classmates and teachers. But don't quote me
on the 54 thing. I plan to turn 49 very soon. :) Frank
Nancy Handy
> My Dearest Nessie--
>
> Yes I got the Hollywood deals. (snip)
>Remember my friend, Sally
> the Octupus? She will show them what real ink is like. She promises to
> squirt those guys right in the eye next time they try pumping my Lagoon.
> Shes hopeful to get a contract when they see how black her ink can be.
>
> True my place is kinda off the beaten path. At least you have company
> and get lots of attention. Not mention the sound of distant bagpipes
> daily in the mist. I'd like to discover how those Pelikan guys ever
> found my Lagoon. The Parker people told me they would keep it a secret
> when Superchrome was discontinued. I' didn't miss the Superchrome deal
> since I was a famous star at the time and who needed a little extra ink
> money anyhow?
>
> Nessie what are you doing to me? Bad enough tears form in my eyes when
> I hear bagpipes. First its Tom cruise. Now Tom Hanks. This fetish you
> have for "Toms" needs to end. I assure you the 'thing" between me and
> Sally is long over. I did have trouble keeping her arms off me, but
> well, you understand she was kinda like, all arms. I remain your
> number one fan.
>
> Creat.
Creat,
Do *I* remember Sally the Octopus??? How could I forget?!!!
You've brought up a sore subject when you mention Miss Inky aka Sally
the Octopus. You're already well acquainted with my opinion on the topic
that she's nothing but a slutty attention-seeking squid.
SHE'S CALAMARI WHEN I GET MY HANDS ON HER!!!
My obsession with Tom Hanks is over since I saw him get his Lifetime
Acheivement award last night. He's only 45, even though he looks over
50, but couldn't they wait a bit longer. Lifetime achievements belong
to people who've lived till at least 65, doncha think?
I'll get rid of the Tom-Toms when you ditch Miss Inky!
I heard that Parker Penman and Levengers inks were made at your swamp.
Good work aside from the clogging factors, but I assume that's
unavoidable due to the swamp water. Hey you did the best job you could
under the circumstances.
Back to my poker game with Jimmy Hoffa and Elvis....
Sincerely,
Nessie
john cline ii
"Ian" <ian...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:3jsghu49bvtlvphq0...@4ax.com...
Yep. Wait til you find out how old Nathan Tardif is! (
Scau...@aol.com ) Writes and posts like a senior citizen, barely
older than a college senior! Great guy, too!
john cline ii who says you can't judge age by Internet posts...senior
citizens sometimes act like 14 year olds and 14 year olds are sometimes
as wise as Santana (yes, Santana, tee hee)