Fountainhead
light...@juno.com
Well I guess I'm the only guy on the planet has'nt
read or does'nt know about this book LOL ....Laugh out Loud Sarah
Actually the work I've been doing on the Root Chakra area
has opened up several movies and books I would,nt have
given a second look in the past, again thanks for all the replys.
Lightnin George
The Chili Dharma of Chili Dogma
The sixth and most important sense
is a Sense of Humor
Robert Ducharme
That's okay, the best review I've read on Atlas shrugged was by a Playboy
playmate who said that she started to read the book and then shrugged.
I think that and The Fountainhead, as good as they reportedly are, seem to
have snob appeal to them, something you'd expect to be parodied in a Woody
Allen movie where the pretended upper crust of society spend their time at
the Gugenheim museum debating cubism vs neo-impressionism or some such
thing. In this case the scene would probably be in a Barnes and Noble where
some literary figure is signing copies of his latest treatise on what role
in society the intelligencia elite snobs should should play for the
betterment of a society that fails to understand their importance and accept
their superiority.
I think you're better off with chili dogma any day. And I feel more
comfortable with it too, as "uneducated" as I am. It worked for Will Rogers.
Robert.
Homer W. Smith
Start with Anthem. It is very short and sweet, about two
kids who discover the word 'I'.
Homer
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Homer Wilson Smith News, Web, Telnet Art Matrix - Lightlink
(607) 277-0959 E-mail, FTP, Shell Internet Access, Ithaca NY
ho...@lightlink.com in...@lightlink.com http://www.lightlink.com
cal...@techline.com
>I think that and The Fountainhead, as good as they reportedly are, seem to
>have snob appeal to them, something you'd expect to be parodied in a Woody
>Allen movie where the pretended upper crust of society spend their time at
>the Gugenheim museum debating cubism vs neo-impressionism or some such
>thing. In this case the scene would probably be in a Barnes and Noble where
>some literary figure is signing copies of his latest treatise on what role
>in society the intelligencia elite snobs should should play for the
>betterment of a society that fails to understand their importance and accept
>their superiority.
>
>I think you're better off with chili dogma any day. And I feel more
>comfortable with it too, as "uneducated" as I am. It worked for Will Rogers.
Now you've shocked me, Robert! You can't have read anything of Rand's and
have said what you say of her appeal. I dare you to read Atlas Shrugged and
tell me you aren't moved by the truth in her comm and her ability to create.
One of my early affinities for LRH was that he closely paralleled a good bit
of the philosphy that I had previously read from Rand.
stunned and willing to wager,
Mary
light...@juno.com
On Tue, 9 Dec 1997 23:04:34 -0500 (EST) Vo...@ctinet.net (Robert
Ducharme) writes:
>At 07:14 PM 12/9/97 -0500, light...@juno.com wrote:
>> Well I guess I'm the only guy on the planet has'nt
>>read or does'nt know about this book LOL ....Laugh out Loud Sarah
>That's okay, the best review I've read on Atlas shrugged was by a
>Playboy
>playmate who said that she started to read the book and then shrugged.
>
>
>I think that and The Fountainhead, as good as they reportedly are,
>seem to
>have snob appeal to them, something you'd expect to be parodied in a
>Woody
>Allen movie where the pretended upper crust of society spend their
>time at
>the Gugenheim museum debating cubism vs neo-impressionism or some such
>thing. In this case the scene would probably be in a Barnes and Noble
>where
>some literary figure is signing copies of his latest treatise on what
>role
>in society the intelligencia elite snobs should should play for the
>betterment of a society that fails to understand their importance and
>accept
>their superiority.
>
>I think you're better off with chili dogma any day. And I feel more
>comfortable with it too, as "uneducated" as I am. It worked for Will
>Rogers.
Thanks Robert, I think that was a compliment however with you
I am never quite sure LOL.
My interest in the movie and the book is purely based on recent
work I've been doing on the group,society or collective if you will
as opposed to the Individual, this relationship is so basic and has
so much force involved in it, it evokes interesting reactions in people
if you even get near it, this is only one flow on it but I feel very put
upon by the groups at times, its almost like their sucking the life
right out of me. ............Special note please don't send things to run
on this item folks I'm already running it Thanks:)
Lightnin
Christine
You left out "reactionary".
At 11:04 PM 12/9/97 -0500, Robert Ducharme wrote:
>At 07:14 PM 12/9/97 -0500, light...@juno.com wrote:
>> Well I guess I'm the only guy on the planet has'nt
>>read or does'nt know about this book LOL ....Laugh out Loud Sarah
>> Actually the work I've been doing on the Root Chakra area
>>has opened up several movies and books I would,nt have
>>given a second look in the past, again thanks for all the replys.
>>
>>
>>Lightnin George
>>The Chili Dharma of Chili Dogma
>>
>>The sixth and most important sense
>>is a Sense of Humor
>>
>
>That's okay, the best review I've read on Atlas shrugged was by a Playboy
>playmate who said that she started to read the book and then shrugged.
>
>I think that and The Fountainhead, as good as they reportedly are, seem to
>have snob appeal to them, something you'd expect to be parodied in a Woody
>Allen movie where the pretended upper crust of society spend their time at
>the Gugenheim museum debating cubism vs neo-impressionism or some such
>thing. In this case the scene would probably be in a Barnes and Noble where
>some literary figure is signing copies of his latest treatise on what role
>in society the intelligencia elite snobs should should play for the
>betterment of a society that fails to understand their importance and accept
>their superiority.
>
>I think you're better off with chili dogma any day. And I feel more
>comfortable with it too, as "uneducated" as I am. It worked for Will Rogers.
>
>Robert.
>
>
>
Pierre
>>Lightnin George
>>The Chili Dharma of Chili Dogma
>>
>>The sixth and most important sense
>>is a Sense of Humor
>>
>
>That's okay, the best review I've read on Atlas shrugged was by a Playboy
>playmate who said that she started to read the book and then shrugged.
>
>I think that and The Fountainhead, as good as they reportedly are, seem to
>have snob appeal to them, something you'd expect to be parodied in a Woody
>Allen movie where the pretended upper crust of society spend their time at
>the Gugenheim museum debating cubism vs neo-impressionism or some such
>thing. In this case the scene would probably be in a Barnes and Noble where
>some literary figure is signing copies of his latest treatise on what role
>in society the intelligencia elite snobs should should play for the
>betterment of a society that fails to understand their importance and accept
>their superiority.
Ahem...
do you know what are you talking about here (Fountainhead, Frank Lloyd
Wright - THE Master) or is it humor?
Excerpts from http://www.uky.edu/Classes/PS776/Projects/Wright/wright.htm
"Contrary to the city upon the hill, Wright envisions a
city without walls, a city without limits, stretching across an infinite plane.
Organic architecture places the individual into this plane where "democracy
triumphs and builds the great new city" and where no person will live as a
"servile or savage animal; holing in or trapped in some cubicle on an upended
extension of some narrow street" (96). Therefore, Wright's use of organic
architecture was one that sought to create a city where the citizen is free in
both mind and body."
Quite a Clear idea, no?
His third wife was a disciple of Gurdjieff, he loved Japanese culture
and design. We could go on, he was far from being an ordinary citizen.
I actually love Woody Allen too, he's a great Artist, a great musician
as well, and if he parodies anything, IMO, it's mainly psychology and
love, oh well - sex, seldom art itself.
Pierre
The epitaph at his (Frank Lloyd Wright's) Wisconsin grave site reads:
"Love of an idea, is the love of God"
Robert Ducharme
At 12:50 AM 12/10/97 -0500, cal...@techline.com wrote:
>
>Now you've shocked me, Robert! You can't have read anything of Rand's and
>have said what you say of her appeal. I dare you to read Atlas Shrugged and
>tell me you aren't moved by the truth in her comm and her ability to create.
>One of my early affinities for LRH was that he closely paralleled a good bit
>of the philosphy that I had previously read from Rand.
>
>stunned and willing to wager,
>
>Mary
>
>
>
Actually I did read her book "The Virtue of Selfishness". The others were
too thick for me to have the patience to complete, or even get really into,
since I was a slow reader. I did see the movie with Gary Cooper. I think
her views are valid when a spirituality is added to it. She was an atheist.
So she probably wrote her philosophy from that standpoint. In practice that
can turn out a person who is purely pragmatic in that to him any means
justifies whatever end he wants. That's the "only one" mentality LRH talks
about. I also saw her interviewed on the Donahue program years ago. As
obviously intelligent as she was, she came off as a woman who was very
stubborn, obsessed, easily offended, and often righteously indignant. She
was not a person who fared very well in public. She, not surprisingly, died
relatively young - of cancer I believe.
Robert
Robert Ducharme
At 10:52 AM 12/10/97 -0500, Pierre wrote:
>I actually love Woody Allen too, he's a great Artist, a great musician
>as well, and if he parodies anything, IMO, it's mainly psychology and
>love, oh well - sex, seldom art itself.
>
>Pierre
>
>
True, not art itself, which I wasn't actually talking about, just
pretentious "high society" as one might find in New York. Woody Allen did
great parodies on groups of pseudo intellectuals or a haughty professor
discussing certain movies or books and then he would have the actual author
walk by hearing those discussions and then in effect tell them that they're
full of shit and don't know what they're talking about, leaving them
standing there gape-mouthed and speechless. Then Woody would say "don't you
wish life were really like this?". I loved those scenes.
Robert
Pierre
>True, not art itself, which I wasn't actually talking about, just
>pretentious "high society" as one might find in New York. Woody Allen did
>great parodies on groups of pseudo intellectuals or a haughty professor
>discussing certain movies or books and then he would have the actual author
>walk by hearing those discussions and then in effect tell them that they're
>full of shit and don't know what they're talking about, leaving them
>standing there gape-mouthed and speechless. Then Woody would say "don't you
>wish life were really like this?". I loved those scenes.
>Robert
There was an interview with Delvaux, a Belgian painter. All kinds
of specialists around, explaining the women, trains, trains stations
etc. he was painting from a very intellectual and highly psychoanalitical
view. Then the TV man asked Delvaux what he thinks about it. He said
he never considered it from that point of view, he painted that
because there was a central station in the neighbourhood, and the
Man showed simplicity itself to the great embarassement of the specialists.
Anyway, from the GPM standpoint, people want a balance between the
mass and the significance. So they put a label on it, now they can
talk about it without ever understanding it. But there are real Artists
that show a balance on both ends.
Pierre
cal...@techline.com
> I think
>her views are valid when a spirituality is added to it. She was an atheist.
Yes, she was; but Atlas Shrugged was written from a viewpoint of personal
sovereignty that could be interpreted(was by me) as very spiritual.
> In practice that
>can turn out a person who is purely pragmatic in that to him any means
>justifies whatever end he wants. That's the "only one" mentality LRH talks
>about.
Yes. There is always the double edge to any truth and any philosophy can be
extrapolated into psychosis. I think she eventually did fall into that trap
and became very dogmatic and intolerant in later years. But I dislike
dismissing her contributions because she was not to the end perfect. She was
a master of logic and rhetoric, yet her writings really weren't
"intellectual." Except for her non fiction essays, they are rather earthy
and emotional. Sometimes embarrassingly so, as in a few of her S&Mish sex
scenes. Pretty wild.
Reading of her later years from those who were somewhat disaffected from her
got me to dig how easy it is for a person to become trapped in their truth,
so to speak. The guru syndrome, I guess. She was intellectually superior to
most and no one would dare question her. Then it became a crime to
contradict her and so on down the spiral until she had destroyed all that
she loved. Very instructive.
I love talking about ayn rand and her books and could do it all day and night!
I'll give y'all a break now.
Mary
Allen
Robert Ducharme wrote:
..
> Actually I did read her book "The Virtue of Selfishness".
That one can't be taken as a stand-alone illustration of the application
of Objectivism. Only the novels can do that, with their pages and pages
of insightful analysis of the process in action.
The others were
> too thick for me to have the patience to complete, or even get really into,
> since I was a slow reader.
So that's why you missed the nuances.
I did see the movie with Gary Cooper. I think
> her views are valid when a spirituality is added to it. She was an atheist.
> So she probably wrote her philosophy from that standpoint. In practice that
> can turn out a person who is purely pragmatic in that to him any means
> justifies whatever end he wants.
That's a prejudice at worst, a gross generality at best. It only "can"
work that way. In this case, it doesn't, and probably can't. The key
was in Steve's posting of a review, which stated that Rand's heroes
didn't need anybody else. All abusive relationships depend upon having
a victim handy. So, full-featured Objectivism can't operate the way
your concern describes. And doesn't, in my experience. The best proof
of that is the Libertarian Party, started by us cold-hearted respecters
of Free Will back in the 70's.
I also saw her interviewed on the Donahue program years ago. As
> obviously intelligent as she was, she came off as a woman who was very
> stubborn, obsessed, easily offended, and often righteously indignant. She
> was not a person who fared very well in public.
It is an error of discernment to confuse the person with the work. In
any case. Would you denigrate the paintings of Van Gogh simply on the
basis of his insanity?
She, not surprisingly, died
> relatively young - of cancer I believe.
Technically, physically, a tobacco suicide.
But she died from a lack of love. And the rage that comes with having
your every statement made into grounds for personal attack (not that
much different from what you did above, just the reverse flow). If you
want to fully understand what happened to her, get the video of David
Mamet's play, "Oleanna", and watch the careful dismantling of a
well-intentioned person by the covert agent of an "opposed" agenda.
-0-
--
|
Allen, Speaker -0- ASC Missions Group
spe...@asc.org | http://www.asc.org
C. B. Willis
Allen wrote:
: ...the rage that comes with having
: your every statement made into grounds for personal attack ...
: ... if you
: want to fully understand what happened to her, get the video of David
: Mamet's play, "Oleanna", and watch the careful dismantling of a
: well-intentioned person by the covert agent of an "opposed" agenda.
What you describe is malicious sophistry, or the desperate and undesired
actions of one who has severe reservations and no normal way to resolve
them and who refuses to go out of communication because they view
something as important or they have a lot invested (can't be
constructively effective in the situation, can't be overtly hostile in the
situation, so is covertly hostile) - either way, we have unhappy campers
all around.
How would you propose this sort of thing be prevented? handled? and
especially where there's a worldly power/strength disparity?
I think this topic would make a very constructive thread.
- CBW