Baptismal Regeneration & Acts 2:38
sai...@nettally.com
Scriptural instruction on salvation. Steve Winter's false teaching on
the topic is thoroughly refuted here. He has seen this article before
and cannot answer the points it makes. It takes the Bible in totality
rather than the erroneous method of prooftexting which Steve Winter
utilizes regularly. Steve Winter refuses to this day to even address
the Biblical passages cited that clearly refute his false teachings
because he knows he cannot. Steve Winter's avoidance of scripture
further proves his message is unsound, unscriptural and no Christian
should accept it. And since his message is unsound and unscriptural,
Steve Winter is, by God's standards, a false teacher and should be
shunned.
May God bless,
Carl
website: http://www.nettally.com/saints/
blog: http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
---
BAPTISMAL REGENERATION & ACTS 2:38
Baptismal remission or regeneration teaches that a person is
regenerated, born again - saved by the act of water baptism.
Alexander Campbell, founder of the Church of Christ states:
"Immersion, is that act by which our state is changed...Christian
immersion, frequently called conversion is an act, inseparably
connected with the remission of sins." (Millennial Harbinger, V-1
"Extra")
"If so, then, who will not concur with me in saying that Christian
immersion is the Gospel in water." (Alexander Campbell, Campbell -
Rice debate, p.443)
"The New Testament teaches baptism as an act which is essential to
salvation..." (Introducing The Church Of Christ, p.107)
Alexander Campbell states: "The preposition [FOR] "eis" here means in
order to - in order to the remission of sins." (Campbell, Walker
debate, 1823 p.124)
Acts 2:38 "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of
Jesus Christ FOR (in order to) the remission of your sins." ?
What Campbell failed to mention was that the preposition "eis" has
several shades of meaning. In the KJV eis is translated in this way:
Against -- 25 times
Among -- 16 times
At -- 20 times
Concerning -- 5 times
For -- 91 times
In -- 131 times
Into -- 571 times
That -- 30 times
On -- 57 times
To -- 282 times
Toward -- 32 times
Unto -- 208 times
Upon -- 25 times
In Dana and Manty's, A Manual Grammar Of The Greek New Testament "eis"
classified in five of eight categories as:
Direction: into, unto, to.
Position: in, among, upon.
Relation: as, for, against, in respect to.
Cause: because of.
Purpose: for the purpose of.
Some examples of the english usage of the preposition FOR are:
I asked the lawyer FOR (in order to get) some advise.
I talked to the lawyer FOR (in behalf of) my son.
I consulted the lawyer FOR (because of) the trouble I was in.
I phoned the lawyer FOR (with respect to) the bill he sent.
Other examples:
John was beheaded FOR his faithfulness.
The criminal was hung FOR his crime.
The people laughed FOR joy.
Christ died FOR our sins, etc.
I took an aspirin FOR a headache.
Examples of the "eis" in the Scriptures
Matthew 12:41
"The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation
and condemn it; for they repented AT the preaching of Jonah, and now
one greater than Jonah is here."
"...for they repented "eis" the preaching of Jonah..."
"in order to" ? or "because of" the preaching of Jonah?
Matthew 3:11
"I baptize you with water UNTO repentance..."
The "unto" in the KJV is a translation of "eis". If translated "in
order to" the verse does not make sense. "I baptize you with water (in
order to) repentance..." ?
"I baptize you with water (because of - concerning) repentance..."
Acts 2:25
"For David speaketh CONCERNING him (Christ)" "Concerning" is a
translation of "eis" If translated "in order to" the error is
obvious.
"For David speaketh (in order to) him..." ?
Luke 5: 12-14
"While Jesus was in one of the towns, a man came along who was covered
with leprosy. When he saw Jesus, he fell with his face to the ground
and begged him, "Lord, if you are willing, you can make me clean."
Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man. "I am willing," he
said. "Be clean!" And immediately the leprosy left him. Then Jesus
ordered him, "Don't tell anyone, but go, show yourself to the priest
and offer the sacrifices that Moses commanded FOR thy cleansing, as a
testimony to them."
"...show yourself to the priest and offer the sacrifices that Moses
commanded FOR [in order to?, or because of?] thy cleansing, as a
testimony to them." It should be noted that the leper was healed
before he offered a sacrifice. The offering was "for thy cleansing" or
because of - not to obtain it, but a formal declaration in ceremony
that it has already happened and testimony to what God has done.
Matthew 3:11
"I baptize you with water UNTO (in order to) repentance." ?
"I baptize you with water UNTO (with reference to) repentance."
"I baptize you with reference to that exercising of it, is what John
means. Or, as Tyndale, in his version says, `I baptize you in token of
your repentance.' That makes fine sense." (B.H. Carroll, An
Interpretation of the English Bible. Vol. 12 p.91)
More uses of eis in the Scriptures:
Matthew 28:19
"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them "eis"
the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."
Mark 1:9
"At that time Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by
John "eis" the Jordan."
Acts 8:16
"...they had simply been baptized "eis" the name of the Lord Jesus."
ACTS 2:38
Campbell: "The preposition "eis" here means in order to - in order to
the remission of sins." Acts 2:38 is the cornerstone of Campbell's
theory re: baptismal regeneration, it says: "Repent, and be baptized
every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR (Campbell, in order
to -to get) the remission of your sins."
"eis" if translated "in order to" in this verse would in fact teach
baptismal regeneration. The verse should be rendered:
Acts 2:38 "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of
Jesus Christ FOR (because of - on account of - in respect to - in
reference to) the remission of your sins."
"The word "eis" is simply a preposition of reference. Baptism has a
reference to remission of sins. It is a ceremonial ordinance, or act,
which refers to the remission of sins through Christ's redemption
(Matt. 26:28) Remission is procured by Christ; remission is received
by faith. (Acts 10:43), and remission is professed by baptism (Acts
2:38)." (Bob L. Ross, The Restoration Movement. p.48)
The Scriptures teach that it is by Grace through faith that one is
saved. NOT a result of works - including baptism.
Eph 2:8-10 "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and
this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so
that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ
Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."
Luke 7:50 "Jesus said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in
peace."
John 3:36 "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever
rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."
John 5:24 "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes
him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has
crossed over from death to life."
John 6:29 "Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in
the one he has sent."
John 6:40 "For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son
and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up
at the last day."
John 6:47 "I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting
life."
Acts 2:21 "And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be
saved."
Acts 10:43 "All the prophets testify about him that everyone who
believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."
Acts 16:31 "They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be
saved--you and your household."
Romans 3:28 "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart
from observing the law."
Romans 4:5 "However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who
justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness."
Gal 3:26 "You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus."
THE THIEF ON THE CROSS
Luke 23:39-43
"One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: "Aren't
you the Christ? Save yourself and us!" But the other criminal rebuked
him. "Don't you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same
sentence? We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds
deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong." Then he said, "Jesus,
remember me when you come into your kingdom." Jesus answered him, "I
tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."
The Church of Christ publication "The Spiritual Sword" States:
"The thief lived and died during the period that the law of Moses was
still in force." (SS/April 1976, p.35)
However, the Scriptures teach that:
Gal 2:16 "Know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but
by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ
Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing
the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified."
Acts 13:39 "Through him everyone who believes is justified from
everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses."
Romans 4:3 "What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and
it was credited to him as righteousness."
The thief also believed God and it was credited to him as
righteousness.
CORNELIUS AND HIS HOUSEHOLD
Acts 10:44-48 "While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy
Spirit came on all who heard the message. The circumcised believers
who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy
Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them
speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said,"Can anyone keep
these people from being baptized with water? They have received the
Holy Spirit just as we have." So he ordered that they be baptized in
the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for
a few days.
Once again in diametric opposition to the clear teachings of
scripture, the Church of Christ teaches that Cornelius and his
household "received the Holy Spirit baptism" but were "not saved". (SS/
April 1976 p.15)
2 Peter 3:16 "He (Paul) writes the same way in all his letters,
speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things
that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people
distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction."
"Since only people baptized to remit sins are baptized properly,
then Mormons, Catholics and Campbellites are the only ones who ever
please God. John Wesley and other great saints were
ungodly wretches, according to their doctrine. The church of Christ
says that a man cannot love God 'til he is baptized (1 John 4:7) and
they teach that being born of God is baptism. Thus they baptize haters
of God and claim to make them lovers of God. What power in their
water.
They teach that man and water are the saviour instead of Christ. A
man can repent, believe, confess, and live a perfect life, but is
still lost unless he is baptized. Then baptism is what saves him,
according to their doctrine. Two things are essential to baptism -
water and somebody to do it. Then these two things are what saves a
man's soul. God does not do it. Christ does not. Grace does not. The
cross does not. It is the waters of baptism. Imagine a man shipwrecked
alone on an island who finds a New Testament and believes and trusts
the Lord to save him, but he cannot go to Heaven because he does not
have a Campbellite preacher there to save him. How sad." (R.A. Long,
The Truth About The Church Of Christ, p.36)
The believer BEFORE baptism:
The believer is a son of God - John 1:12,13.
The believer has eternal life - John 3:14-16; 5:24.
The believer shall never die - John 11:26.
The believer has forgiveness of sins - Acts 13:38.
The believer is made righteous - Romans 4:5-8.
The believer is born of God - 1 John 4:7; 5:1
The believer is justified - Acts 13:39.
The believer has peace - Romans 5:1.
The believer overcomes the world - 1 John 5:5.
...all this without a single drop of water.
Merlin
cut and paste all day long while speaking of other people's sins.
cut and paste all day while never revealing any humanity to the rest
of us,
cut and paste today and get steve for jesus.
the chant goes......
get them for jesus,
show them you are the boss,
get them for jesus,
who cares about jesus' love.
get them for jesus,
you will be rewarded in heaven.
get them for jesus and god will understand.
go ahead and steal this chant, merlin will not copyright it lol.
teach this chant to your children bible bob and carl.
in love with the non christian and very jewish jesus,
merlin
Merlin
cut and paste all day long while speaking of other people's sins.
cut and paste all day while never revealing any humanity to the rest
of us,
cut and paste today and get steve for jesus.
the chant goes......
get them for jesus,
show them you are the boss,
get them for jesus,
who cares about jesus' love.
get them for jesus,
you will be rewarded in heaven.
get them for jesus and god will understand.
go ahead and steal this chant, merlin will not copyright it lol.
teach this chant to your children bible bob.
Merlin
> may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
are you teaching us about copyright laws and not jesus? you are
protecting your literary rights on the back of jesus teachings? there
are tons of examples of copyright infringement on christnet with all
the cutting and pasting going on here.
> The fact is,
christians do not believe in facts. there are no facts in your
statements.
show us one fact. even the sky is not blue that often anymore.
> "merlin",
merlin is merlin.
> that when false teachers
when you do not know yourself you will not know a true false teacher.
when you refuse to act like you ever heard who jesus is let alone act
like you want to follow jesus teachings, we can discuss false
teachers............
> (Steve for one)
you have not proved this, repeating misinformation over and over
again, may gain you converts, it does not make anything you are saying
about steve as the truth.
> pervert
gee using this word while speaking with a gay man........
are you trying to insult?
did jesus call people perverts?
is this word used often in your church?
where did you learn this word? no really tell us how you first used
this word.
> the gospel
you refuse to follow jesus teachings, you refuse to follow the laws
jesus obeyed in his lifetime, and are taking others down? have you
tried to read you own posts?
> and twist and torture the rules,
jesus was twisted and tortured.
gitmo is twisting and torturing people.
you really want to be associated with physical torture in american
prisons?
this is what merlin is talking about.....
when given the opportunity to witness for christ, christians will harm
others in jesus name to gain the upper hand in any conversation about
jesus love.
> those of us
you think you are more theatening by mentioning others? your group is
bigger than merlin's group so youse guys can gang up and hurt merlin
and his group better?
> who
> are faithful and educated ARE REQUIRED to step in and correct!
you are deceiving yourself. these are not educated posts. cutting
and pasting other people's words in not an educated discussion.
> How else do the novices know the right from the wrong?
by listening to your hate rather than jesus love?
> This is no
> more or less than the prophets did,
how long ago was that? 2000 years ago? when was the last profit or
saint?
> no more or less than the Christ
yeah you and the christ are buddies right? you two ge
> did, no more or less than the apostles did.
and when last did you talk to any of them?
where is this miracle religion of 2000 years ago today?
why is everything in the bible 2000 years ago today?
beside hate posts on christnet............. what are modern christians
doing to recapture jesus love?
> And some of us
group thought creates the need for group action. and gay bashing is
on rise.
> see no good reason to "re-invent the wheel".
so you continue to insult people in jesus name to show us jesus love?
your ministry is based on practicing hatred for others?
can you give us an example of a friendly post from you?
youse guys have ridiculed merlin in jesus name
youse guys have called merlin names in jesus name
youse guys have played games with merlin's name in jesus name
show us your adult side, show us some maturity in christ.
> When it's
> been said,
without benefit of love?
> and it's been said WELL,
you are judging yourself and find yourself to be righteous and good?
LOL. while judging yourself as righteous you judge others as in need
of righteousness, is this not a fair interpretation of what you are
saying? LOL.
does making yourself look good in print help you understand bush's
need to have good things said about bush by everyone that works for
bush? is this a christian thang? the need to have people say nice
things about you no matter what the truth is?
> and it's been said BRIEFLY,
look glorify yourself in print all you want, just stop using merlin's
name to help you. make false claims about yourself on christnet all
you want just leave out merlin's name. cast down everyone on
christnet that disagrees with you, make all those that don't believe
live in hell all you want. it is your world we are visiting, and
guess what? anyone that visits your world is in peril of being told
they are ugly and unrighteous by you and your gang? well duh back at
yah.
> why
> not cut and paste?
cause it isn't explaining anything.
you use other people's words like weapons of mass destruction, not
pebbles of truth that heal.
> That's what computers have allowed us to do,
and the latest fashion beats god's oldfashion love?
> and
> when we can use technology to the glory of God,
you are dissing god in your actions.
everytime you praise yourself you are dissing god's love.
everytime you call yourself righteous you are dissing god's love.
everytime you tell us in jesus name that you are better than merlin
and steve, you are dissing god's message of love.
> why not?
why do you want to?
in love with the living loving jesus who begged god for understanding
from those nailing his bones to the cross.
merlin
Phlogeus
<johnw<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The fact is, "merlin", that when false teachers (Steve for one)
> pervert the gospel and twist and torture the rules, those of us who
> are faithful and educated ARE REQUIRED to step in and correct!
You aren't however one of those
You are a lying sod
nuff said
Pastor Dave
>The following is an excellent article explaining Biblically the
>Scriptural instruction on salvation.
It is symbolic, but I would venture to say that if one has
the opportunity to be baptized and says no, that their
salvation should be questioned.
--
The torture of a bad conscience, is the Hell
of a living soul. - John Calvin
Pastor Steve Winter
>Baptismal remission or regeneration teaches that a person is
>regenerated, born again - saved by the act of water baptism.
See my reply as:
"Carl Mccaskey sure is afraid someone might obey the Bible"
Carl Mccaskey sure is afraid that someone might obey the Bible,
isn't he? Remember that all the garbage that the filthy,
accursed, false-christian scum Carl Mccaskey posts is to convince
you NOT to obey the Bible. Why would any real Christian be so
dedicated to preventing people from obeying the Bible.
I dare not tell you anything but the Biblical salvation plan.
Note when Paul was commanded to be baptised:
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and
wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Many false preachers (accursed of God) teach that baptism is
merely "An outward profession of inward faith" or some such
nonsense. It is a lie from the very pits of hell, a trick of the
devil to keep people in their sins. Water baptism is the re-birth
of Water referred to in John 3:5.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but
he that believeth not shall be damned.
Jesus said "and is baptized", but false-christian scum like Carl
Mccaskey don't want you to believe Jesus.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized
every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of
sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized:
and the same day there were added [unto them] about three
thousand souls.
Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were
astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the
Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify
God. Then answered Peter,
Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be
baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of
the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism
of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe
on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Acts 19:5 When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name
of the Lord Jesus.
No trinity baptism here (That wasn't invented until hundreds of
years later).
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and
wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Sins are washed away in Jesus' name baptism. Scum like Carl
Mccaskey will die in their sins and the little slime want you to
also.
Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into
Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into
Christ have put on Christ.
False-christian scum like Carl Mccaskey are dedicated to
preventing you from putting on Christ.
Pastor sTeve Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
http://tinyurl.com/mxu7o for trinity is antichrist sermon
Merlin
> >are you teaching us about copyright laws and not jesus?
>
> ???
> There is no law of God that prohibits us from
> #1 obeying the laws of men - except when the two conflict.
so you do not believe in democratic principles of freedom for all
citizens and would refuse not to harm others even when it is against
the law when you see that harm as doing religious good to someone to
harm them in jesus name?
> #2 protecting ourselves and what is ours (copyright law)
what have you said that needs legal protections?
it appears to be controlling everyone out of fear of being quoted.
> you are
>
> >protecting your literary rights on the back of jesus teachings?
>
> ?????
> WHAT?
yes, you are copyrighting your christian thought like it belongs to
you and not god
moses copyrighted nothing. saint john copyrighted nothing tho he has
a threat at the beginning of one of his books like nostradamus......
have you had no help from god in writing any of this? and want too
the credit?
you are soul genius extrodinair? god did not help you with your
homework?
>
> there
>
> >are tons of examples of copyright infringement on christnet with all
> >the cutting and pasting going on here.
>
> That has NOTHING to do with me!
ah that is the discussion we are having is it not?
> And you truly do not need to know why I copyright what I post.
it is humorous when people copyright god.
> (besides which, I have explained it numerous times already, and at the
> moment, I am not in the mood to "answer to YOU!" )
merlin senses your moodiness from time to time and has not followed up
on many of your posts for that reason, what would have happened had
jesus not been in the mood to be crucified?
what would have happened when jesus was not in the mood to make water
in the wine at the wedding?
what would have happened had jesus just quit cause he is too tired.
it is all possible and may be real. those parts of the story that
would make jesus real have been eliminated from the bible.
> >> The fact is,
>
> >christians do not believe in facts. there are no facts in your
> >statements.
>
> You are entitled to your opinion, and you are entitled to be wrong.
no really tell us what you are calling THE FACT IS.........
list a couple of facts. merlin is asking not for your opinion rather
for the facts you are refering to......... you don't have any? that
may be an assumption that you do not have any facts.
in love,
merlin
NOs...@no.spam
wrote:
>x-no-archive: baloney- it's archived.
>On 26 Mar 2007 13:27:07 -0700, "Merlin" <merli...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Š 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
>may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
>>
>>> may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
>>
>>are you teaching us about copyright laws and not jesus?
>
>???
>There is no law of God that prohibits us from
>#1 obeying the laws of men - except when the two conflict.
>#2 protecting ourselves and what is ours (copyright law)
>
> you are
>>protecting your literary rights on the back of jesus teachings?
>
>?????
>WHAT?
>
> there
>>are tons of examples of copyright infringement on christnet with all
>>the cutting and pasting going on here.
>
>That has NOTHING to do with me!
>And you truly do not need to know why I copyright what I post.
>(besides which, I have explained it numerous times already, and at the
>moment, I am not in the mood to "answer to YOU!" )
>>
Yet,here you are replying to him- go figure, short-bus....
The truth of the matter is, you don't want anything archived because
you know you were caught with your pants down in some other groups,
trying to peddle porn trash.
This line of malarkey about 'I'm a published author and am saving my
posts for my book is nothing but hogwash.
Merlin
> There is provision in Christian law that, should the government
> REQUIRE me to go off to war and shoot people, if I believe in my heart
> that that is WRONG, I can refuse military service, so long as I am
> prepared to abide the consequences (prison).
was not talking about that, was rather refering to stop signs and
murder.
you seem to say you have the right to not obey the laws of the land as
a christian when they disagree with your christian faith..... that
would enclude laws government treatement of your neighbors as well.
> There is like provision in Christian law that, should I believe in the
> mushroom religion (like certain American Indians do), I can partake of
> the mushroom, so long as I am willing to go to prison if America's
> courts do not agree.
we are talking about community based preveledges that christians take
not to follow the constitution. by taking rights away from people by
rewriting the constitution or simply refusing to grant rights to
everyone and act like there are people that do not deserve rights in
america.
>
> And if
If? talk about something you know. we can see the number of
christians that do not obey stop signs already.
> I even believe that God has told me to "kill His enemies",
and did not say who your enemy was? LOL. jesus taught us we have no
enemies, and to not fight rather to love.
> and
> I therefore kill my next door neighbor because I believe he runs a
> crack house, I am "free to kill my neighbor" so long as I am wiling to
> abide by the laws that when I am caught, I may have to forfeit my
> life.
without benefit of trail we notice. you are wasting your life. for
you go for the dramatic not necessarily the best approach. people
that live near crack houses will tell you that to be noticed is not a
good thang. to be selected out as a neighbor to a crack can get you
killed. so you can't work with the systems to stem such activities?
you can't as a christian design drug treatment that will help? change
the poverty that causes much of the dissatisfaction that leads people
into drugs?
no you just wanna harm people and use anything as an excuse. we see
this in christianity all over the country. meaness replacing jesus
love, judgemental personal religious vigalantism on the rest of us.
that is that gets so many people killed by christians.
> >> #2 protecting ourselves and what is ours (copyright law)
when ever anyone posts on here, it is copyrighted.
people posting not exerpts rather whole documents with expressed
permission is breaking the law. it is stealing someone else's work.
> >what have you said that needs legal protections?
>
> That doesn't need to concern you. That only needs to concern me.
yet it shapes and colors everything you say. for what ever your
previous encounters were are making you paranoid seemingly today.
>
> >it appears to be controlling everyone out of fear of being quoted.
>
> If I am writing several books,
who isn't?
> and somehow, someone gets hold of the
> rough manuscripts and posts them on the Internet for the world to see,
these are not rough transcripts, these posts appear to be other
people's writings.
> I need some protection, since once the material is "out there", it is
> very likely not publishable.
you are thinking of product not state of mind.
you are thinking old fashion intellectual property rights.
in an age when anything can be copied as often as people are want.
yet where is the demand for your product?
\
> And if I happen to make my living with my writing, I could incur
> SERIOUS damages in this way.
then stop cause you are damaging your image here.
> I am copyrighting MY expression of my thoughts.
planning to charge for you discussion of jesus? making money on jesus
just like the rest of them? lol.
>
> And if you look in the very front of your Bible, you will find a
> copyright notice.
> What? Copyright God's Words?
> Yes. One expression of them.
cause they rewrote it the bible to their liking and are copyrighting
their personalized version of the bible. king james version can't be
copyrighted. so who holds the copyright on the bible?
> >moses copyrighted nothing.
>
> Last I was aware, copyright didn't exist in Moses' day,
so jesus never thought of slavery as bad, jesus never thought
segregation as bad, and now you say jesus doesn't care about
copyrights and did not protect his speach?
> and if you are
> going to be THIS SILLY, we don't need to communicate!
tempter tempter.
> Men have their forms of "credit".
and you are choosing to side with man.
> Copyright is one such form. A
> paycheck is another. Critical reviews of a positive nature are
> another. An nice house, nice clothes, a nice car, a nice summer
> home....all forms of "credit."
making money off of god is fun?
> God has His forms of credit, as well.
god is everything.
> They include mentioning His
> name favorably, they include THANKING Him appropriately for our
> successes. Forms of credit God appreciates also include paying a
> tithe (10 %) of the income our efforts and labors generate.
yet no copyright laws.
> >you are soul genius extrodinair? god did not help you with your
> >homework?
>
> You make a TON of assumptions.
you are taking full credit for your work.
> And again, if you are going to be this silly, and this accusatory, we
> don't need to communicate.
temper temper
this conversation is not about pleasing you hons. this conversation
is drawing you out to explain yourself.
> You are welcome to your delusions!
christians always need to insult. do you not see this bible bob and
carl.....
what do delusions have to do with copyrighting? who is deluded?
> ..... BUT..... why bore others with your delusions?
again, christians insult all the time. it is an attack mode that is
meant to throw people off the truth, and make them question themselves
for the rude nasty remarks are always personal. bible bob accuses
people of being insane and possessed, is that your next insult too?
oh everyone esle is to blame for your need to copyright god's word?
when we love we want to share. until we share and respect each other
in christ, what is christainity?
in love,
merlin
Merlin
> may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
>
> >dear john
>
> Well, you sort of threw open the door,
you are wasting you own time, say anything you like john. merlin is
one person actually willing to chat you up. go ahead insist on going
to moon since you feel like going to moon.
> but
but is of the devil. when you want to demonize something, try the
words but and if.
> also bear in mind that I
> was giving you EXTREME examples (murder)
yes, all christians do. this extremism makes discussion almost
impossible. and that is on purpose.
> to make the point.
was it worth it? to look so extreme? does it help never to seem
real? always radical?
> (having
> been trained in the teaching profession,
then act like it. tell us something we need to know.
> there are times when it is
> good to give an EXTREME example of a point to drive it home)
you can waste your time all you want. talk about anything you want.
this is in a sense your dime.
> >you seem to say you have the right to not obey the laws of the land as
> >a christian when they disagree with your christian faith.....
>
> Correct.
christians are out to create anarchy in america, christians want
signs of the end of the world radical signs of total failure of
government, and a collapse of the economy which bush is delivery like
every good christian wants.
> Depending on the issue and the circumstance.
> In the case of murdering one's next-door neighbor--
lawless christianity goes back to the witch burning frenzies of salem
throught the murder of the founder of mormanism, accepting the whole
sale murder of american indians.......... and list goes on of harming
people by not giving them equal rights to christians in america.
> in fact
everytime you asked to give facts you refuse. you don't know the
consequences of your actions, and will have to live through you lack
of respect of the constitution and those around you. by given all
christians special rights not to obey the law........ jesus is
telling us we can deal with you outside of the law as well.......
for what we do will be done unto us......... and what you are doing
is not good for you tho you treat others that way and feel good about
it.
> -- there
> is no justification
for wanting to break the laws. yet you cannot pass the ten
commandments test either.
> for that in scripture UNLESS you find yourself in
> a situation where you must end the neighbor's life in order to
> preserve other lives, including your own, your wife's, your child's,
> or your property. (yes, deadly force HAS recently been ruled legal
> when used to protect one's home and property.)
love does not drive you to lift your finger for anyone?
love does not compell you to help those around you?
you can insult with the best of them, yet you are not a healer as
jesus teaches.
> Also, #1
not following any of this, just going along seeing where it ends.
> just because
because because because...........
> it's legal by man's laws doesn't mean it's
> legal by God's.
so do not respect the laws, and see what laws are left to protect
christains in the future as they use the laws to create segregation in
america........ you are playing a deadly game that will end in you
have no rights as you work so hard to take other people's rights away.
> And the woman who aborts her fetus
you make no exceptions here. you make none of the health of the
mother. by disrespecting women, we all suffer under a lack of women's
care. this is why christians refuse to find a cure for breast
cancer, they do not want to invest in women's health issues. when
christianity begins to respect women as they do men.......
> which is totally
> healthy as a form of birth control MAY be "obeying man's laws", but
> she's violating God's laws.
not necessarily. you are generalizing and not making one acception.
it would appear you do not have your own family either.
> conversely #2 just it's illegal by man's laws doesn't mean it's
> illegal by God's laws.
you can't pass the ten commandments test silly.
> In Seattle, some 25 years ago, the city council
> passed a law that made making any comment AGAINST homosexuality
> ILLEGAL, and punishable.
gay bashing leads to murder america, wish wyoming had had that law
before matthew was crucified in the wilderness. am sure they were
trying to create and invironment where gays could live in peace. what
you are saying is christian lynchings were ok. it is ok for the
christain KKK to harm others in jesus name.
> Since Christian pastors are REQUIRED to
> preach against homosex,
no they are not....... there is no mention of homosexaulity in the
bible hons. jesus didn't say one word....... moses never mentioned
it...... only christians and saudis are against homosexuals.
> the issue came up IMMEDIATELY.
this is why freedom from religion is so important.
> Will this new
> law make it illegal for a preacher to preach FROM the pulpit that
> homosex is a sin?
it isn't a sin. a sin is a missrf marked in the greek language, what
have you turned the meaning of sin into today? a death threat? how
did you get from your death threat to missing a target in archery?
> The answer was: Yes!
you have an edited bible that has been created so you can hate. turn
away from hatred of all sorts. turn away from your politics of hate
and youwill not need laws that allow you to insult legally. think for
a moment, you insult, bible bob insults, and where does it get
jesus?
calling people names doesn't help john.
> Evidently,
it isn't evident that hatred is the only way.
> enough Christians raised Cain that that law was revoked.
so you could legally hate?
> (I asked for a copy of the law several years ago, when I became a
> resident of the City, and was told "if such a law ever passed, it
> didn't make it past the courts.") The law is no longer on the books.
you just said it never was on the books.
why are you so homophobic? who taught you this? when jesus only
talked about love and respect...... you have been mislead, and you
enjoy it.
> The problem
there is no problem there are only solutions.
> now is that you are speaking so generically, I don't get
> the precise point you are making. If you would like to clarify it, we
> can address it again.
try love for a change, and love will change you.
> At this point--- not to be negative towards you--
that would be refreshingly different.
> I have no clue what
> you are getting at.
it is obvious. what merlin has done is ask you a few key questions
about human rights and christianity's position on civil rights. you
were asked about obeying any laws you don't like as a christian, and
as you pick and choose which laws in the bible and of man to obey, you
have also given permission to everyone else to decide for themselves
which laws of man and god to obey or disobey, this is what jesus means
when he says becareful how you treat others, they will learn to treat
you the same way. so we can all refuse to follow corrupt religious
and manmade laws that do not hold up in the light of love.
> If
if is of the demon devil worshippers.
> you are referring to the "Christian" campaign designed to deny
> homosexuals equal rights, please understand that that is a HUGE
> controversy within the churches!
don't see that in the media. don't see any discussion of this in
churches. just see people being locked out by bullies.
> And for an historical context,
oh oh.
> if
if is a word all devil worshippers use.
> you read the epistles, "knock-down,
> drag-out" and stone arguments were TYPICAL in the Jerusalem church
> post-Christ.
and so was stoning ugly people by pretty people.
> If
if is a sign of the demon devil in you.
> you understand what you are reading,
not important, you have told us we can choose what to obey for
ourselves. why bother then? none of it seems manditory to you.
> once such vehement argument
> took place over whether to require one of Paul's gentile converts to
> be circumcised.
that was anti jewish rhetoric out of anti semetic europe that lead to
the gas chambers in ww2.
> There was HEATED debate--
the ovens were hot yes.
> evidently for several days--
> before Paul settle the matter that it was not good to go back to the
> law and make Christ "unreachable" for some.
why bother, we can act like you and obey any law we want.
> Paul said that
> Christianity should be available to ANYONE who chose to follow, and
> "not just those who have 10 fingers and 10 toes" (metaphor).
yet not homosexauls. LOL. and what about all the racially segregated
churches in america today?
> Well, surely you have heard the old saying that Christians aren't
> perfect; we're just forgiven.
you sure act it, when you ridicule others.
> Even though we are Christians, we're going to do bad things. But as
> Christians, we have available to us repentance and forgiveness.
focus on love and you won't need to repent. focus on love and you
won't need to forgive.
>
> I'm sorry if you didn't get the EXTREME humor. And-- no-- I wasn't
> referring to you, yet!
being extreme in faith, is not being extreme with knowlegde, you
promote superstition when you play extreme games.
> jesus taught us we have no
>
> >enemies, and to not fight rather to love.
wish christians would see this in the way jesus died in peace on that
violent day.
> I believe Jesus taught us a Perfect Standard.
he walked the walk like an ordinary person, your perfect jesus only
exists in the perfectly manicured pages of your bible. you don't even
know how jesus went to the bathroom from the bible with no toilet
paper, that would have helped much of the world to learn how tolive
without toilet paper.
> I believe
yet you know not.
> He very
> deliberately gave us a standard that we CAN NOT FOLLOW.
when a real person succeeds at their life calling it is not an
unatainable goal.
see jesus as real, get off the hero worship, and look at the daily
sacrefices and choices jesus made just like us.
> Why? So we are dependent on His Grace daily!
we are all brothers and sisters of jesus, when we see jesus as a human
that made it we can see, we can do that too. we can walk in jesus
shoes and we can find god as jesus found god and don't need to be
killed for it.
> Why do I say that?
answering yourself again?
> Because Paul "got it." Paul (the pre-eminent
> preacher/evangelist/theologian of the 1st C) said, "As much as
> possible, be at peace with all men!"
yet you are not peaceful towards anyone.
this is what merlin notices, how unhappy christains are all the time.
there is no joy in christianity only public humilation of homosexuals,
pain for pregnant women, suffering children in orphanges and insults
for everyone.
> (that is,
> I know there are going to be those folks you simply cannot get along
> with. Do the best you can!")
you are asking us to put up with it? since this is your
best..........
> AGAIN, if you didn't "get it",
merlin is not going to get it. merlin is not going to join in and
play these games.
> I was making an EXTREME example to make
> my point.
try being more real and down to earth. it might make you sound more
real.
> "There ARE those tiems when you must do what YOU believe in
> your gut is right, no matter what the law says."
that does not make your 'urges' a good thing, intuition would help
perhaps.
when we love unconditionally as jesus loved, doors open, minds open,
information flows like water. it is amazing how answers and people
and solutions seem to fly in from the air when we hold onto love. we
can understand jesus relationship with god too, as god seems so near
when we love as jesus loves.
> to be selected out as a neighbor to a crack can get you
>
> >killed. so you can't work with the systems to stem such activities?
>
> See above.
> In looking back, the crack dealer example was TERRIBLE.
where merlin lives crack was major problem years ago. you brought all
that back to life for moment. when you live in the real world with
real people's problems around, life is not that abstract, cause you
know someone suffering from about every ailment known to man, and have
prayed for each in their own way. now the problem is no longer crack,
it is methanphetamine however one's spells it. it is destroying the
body and lives while these same people think it makes them feel good.
> I believe that the noition of poverty causing drug addition is
> ridiculous.
cause you don't know any poor people.
> I've been AROUND drugs for a good part of my life, and
> drugs are EXPENSIVE.
it isn't expensive, most crime is based on drug addiction. and yes
people get bored, people see no hope, people don't know a way out of
their lives and christians lately are always so mean about things that
no one can turn to christians for help anymore, so people live in poor
housing and eat poor food can't afford brith control and want the
break from their lives that drugs can bring to them...... john and
merlin may know better cause we got further in school and ended up
with jobs that could afford to discuss god on the computer...... etc,
etc, etc.
that is how it gets started among the poor hons.
> And we are back to you have a right to your opinion.
it isn't an opinion of you, john, it is a warning............. jesus
promises that we will be treated the way we treat others. and merlin
is telling you how you might be perceived by others and jesus what
jesus might do to help you understand your effect on others.
> However, I don't believe my harsh (at times) words IN HERE are
> harming anyone.
you better talk to jesus about it.........
> And certainly a lot of folks in here have tried to harm ME
so what, have you ever read some of the stuff said about merlin? who
does it harm? it harms the person that is saying it. insults are the
world of the insulter. we are who we are and that may be punishment
enough? even for merlin LOL.
> with
> their very harsh words.
insults have nothing to do with the victim........
> Too many just don't get that 95 % of the
> garbage they toss my way bounces off!
all things break down into engergy.
> >love, judgemental personal religious vigalantism on the rest of us.
> >that is that gets so many people killed by christians.
>
> I haven't observed your last point.
you were born after matthew sheppard was crucified?
you never heard of billy mathers? how he was murdered?
you don' t read about the almost constant gay bashing reported
everywhere?
> You still don't need to concern yourself.
bullies say this all time. you are asking poeple to ignore the nazi
arresting all the jews in town, you are asking americans to look away
from all the murdered american indians, you are asking us to not look
at the lynchings that took place for centuries in america. this is
the history behind your extreme humor abuse...... this is the legacy
of christianity in america too.
> Would you give me your debit and credit card #s and all your PINS?
you have yet to hypnotize merlin into believing like you.
> No. There are things yuo choose to keep to yourself.
follow your own advice.
>
> I don't HAVE to explain,
tell that to jesus standing next to you tho you see jesus not.
> and I have explained ANYWAY a dozen times.
you have become more human.
> I
> don't feel like it right now. However, I am betting that if you did a
> search of the last 6 months, you'd find several variations of my
> explanation.
there will be other opportunities for you to explain am sure.
> I guess you didn't notice that Mr Jim Agar (US Army JAG officer)
> illegally posted an entire short story of mine just yesterday!
each of us are our own ledgends.
> I don't call that paranoia. I call that Jim (a certifiable psychopath)
> having NO concern with the law, my rights, or with being a criminal.
so write the monitor silly.
> "He does it because he thinks he can get away with it."
legality never creates a healing.
when we love as jesus loves, it isn't about you, it is about us.
merlin
Merlin
> Good enough!
> Since you are back to INSISTING on being silly and obtuse, you can
> talk to yourself!
this is how hard it is to speak with hard hearted christians on any
topic they consider christians to be an authority. the hautiness
makes you impossible to reach as you consider jesus impossible to
reach. come back down to earth. and when you do not understand ask
simple questions, don't give us your triumphant resume.
the insults never cease flowing out of pride of ignorance in faith of
the world around us. this isn't about merlin, this is about john over
posting on christnet and using typical christian abuse techiques to
deal with anyone that questions your sense of yourself.......
since you don't get it, you are 'cursed' by your ignorance in faith to
continue to abuse others in christ.
in love with the living loving jesus,
merlin
Merlin
> And you expect me to continue communicating with you?
you keep on keep on.......
> You are delusional
compare your body weight to the whole universe........... now be
honest with yourself.........
insults false accusations and slurs do not help what an attempt at
uniy might accompish.
in love,
merlin
Phlogeus
<johnw<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
> (having been trained in the teaching profession,
What as
a tyre lever in a mechanics class or did you wash out the boys toilets
Really Weatherly!
Phlogeus
<johnw<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
> You make a LONG list of RIDICULOUS, INSULTING remarks out of left
> field about my faith, and then you expect me to be nice?????
>
You aren't nice
You are horrible
Phlogeus
"Merlin" <merli...@gmail.com> wrote:
at least they put the people who read them off the cess pit of a mess
Christianity has become
Christianity NEVER needed reform more
Back in Luthers time it was mostly about Indulgences and the Power of the Pope
Now the WHOLE darn thing is a mess.
Radical Reform or let it die
Merlin
> I tell you I'm not interested
what else you got? who is taking you seriously around here? who is
even bothering? your mutual christian's guy club of haters is a silly
bunch of self professed saviours who can't seem to pray themselves out
of rev steve's paper bag he placed on their heads.
> in your childish retorts,
characterize people anyway you want. your insults are badges of
courage for those assaulted.
> and you just
> keep on coming!'
love never quits, love never stops, love continues and will continue
till the end of time.
when you learn to love, you will learn to respect yourself and say and
do things that reveal the best in you. until then we all put on
nickers and boots to wade through you language of hate till we all
meet on the shore of love and peace.
>
> sheesh!
this is short for jesus, you swearing using the name of god in vain?
LOL.
in love with the living jesus that taught us all to love openly and
honestly.
merlin
Merlin
since you asked and do not know......
unity is the strength we have against any negativity thrown at us.
unity will dispell the darkness of loneliness and separation,
unity will give us the direction we need in our lives to create a
world in which we can all work with each other.
unity is jesus saying we are all one under the father god.
unity is jesus saying when we realize love we too can understand the
father god.
unity is jesus saying come up to the perfect plan and at least attempt
it for the sake the world.
unity is jesus saying live like we are all brothers and sisters in
christ.
merlin
Merlin
your original post in this thread:
> fact is, "merlin",
playing with merlin's name to ridicule merlin are we?
> false teachers (Steve for one)
jesus says when anyone calls someone a name, like unto false teacher
even, that john w. will be called a false teacher by someone else of
equal importance to him?
> twist and torture the rules,
not one christian obeys all ten commandments.
not one christian obeys the laws of moses.
not one christian obeys jesus teachings in the new testament.
john w. you are twisting and torturing jesus teachings in the new
testament, you are disobeying moses laws, and you refuse to obey all
ten commandments, and you have the gaul to tell others they are not
obeying something in the bible?
where do we find honesty in christianty? where do find anyone
practicing what jesus teaches?
in love,
merlin
jesus asked merlin to find someone that followed his teachings on
christnet...... this was never deemed an official poll, yet merlin
has found maybe two people on christnet that get jesus message of love
and seem to be practicing it? that is not enough people to save
jerico, is that enough followers of jesus message of love to save
america and christianity?
please answer this question. when not one christian follows jesus
teachings, why do you say you are christian?