> > > > > > > > Luke 16:17
> > > > > > > > And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the
> > > > > > > > law to fail.

> > > > > > > > Did heaven and earth pass?  I had not heard.

> > > > > > > No so the law does not fail, no one said it did,

> > > > > > You are wrong about that.  I said it did.

> > > > > So you are saying, but Christ said the law did not fail in Luke 16:17
> > > > > (see above).

> > > > > > The Mosaic Code was never
> > > > > > the law of God.  Jesus said:

> > > > > > Mark 10:5
> > > > > > And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart
> > > > > > he wrote you this precept.

> > > > > That does not necessarily mean God didn't give it to Moses.

> > > > Yes, it does.  If God gave it to humanity in the person of Moses, or
> > > > with the intention that humanity should have it, God gave it to
> > > > humanity ("you").  If the precept originated with God, Moses never
> > > > owned it to "give" to anyone.

> > > > However, Jesus said that Moses gave it to humanity ("you").  Also note
> > > > that the word "Hebrews" might be substituted for the word "humanity"
> > > > in the argument, and the effect is the same.

> > > > > The entire
> > > > > law was given because of sins ("transgressions") committed due to the
> > > > > hardheartedness of sinners (Gal. 3:19); "the law is not made for a
> > > > > righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly
> > > > > and for sinners" (I Tim. 1:9). Righteousness could not be gained by
> > > > > the law (Gal. 3:21).

> > > > The same St. Paul who wrote those words also wrote in Romans 13 that
> > > > people like Hitler was "God's minister" whom God had put over the
> > > > German Jews, the Polish Jews, the Austrian Jews, the French Jews, etc.
> > > > as a terror "to the evil."  The same was true of Nero and the
> > > > Christians.  And anyone who resisted either of those two worthies was
> > > > resisting God and was therefore DAMNED.

> > > > 13 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no
> > > > power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
> > > > 2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of
> > > > God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
> > > > 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt
> > > > thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou
> > > > shalt have praise of the same:
> > > > 4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that
> > > > which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he
> > > > is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that
> > > > doeth evil.
> > > > 5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for
> > > > conscience sake.
> > > > 6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's
> > > > ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.

> > > > > By the way, this in I Tim. 1:5 is the same teaching of Christ (that
> > > > > the law 'hung' upon loving God and loving one's neighbor - Matt.
> > > > > 22:36-40):
> > > > > 1Ti 1:5  Now the end of the commandment is charity [agape/love] out of
> > > > > a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

> > > > Where come from, a teaspoon of sewage in a barrel of wine results in a
> > > > barrel of sewage.  I do not resurrect Paul on the fact that he also
> > > > says a few nice things.

> > > > > 1Ti 1:6  From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain
> > > > > jangling;
> > > > > 1Ti 1:7  Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither
> > > > > what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
> > > > > 1Ti 1:8  But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
> > > > > 1Ti 1:9  Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man,
> > > > > but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners,
> > > > > for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of
> > > > > mothers, for manslayers

> > > > And this simply is not a true statement about the Mosaic Code.  The
> > > > "law" of Moses is a terrible thing that you would never consent to
> > > > live under.  It oppressed women, gentiles, and slaves horribly.  The
> > > > public savagery, burning of witches and adulteresses, stoning of
> > > > rebellious children is a ghastly code.

> > > > TCross

> > > Isn't it like the laws in the US?

> > No.  The laws of the US are bad, but nowhere near as bad as the Mosaic
> > Code.  The US does not stone people accused of homosexuality,
> > adultery, blasphemy, Sabbath violations.  The US does not stone rape
> > victims and owners of animals that turn vicious.

> Of course not. I'm just saying there are laws, and then punishments
> for breaking those laws.

> > The US does not make
> > chattel slaves out of wives.

> Until fifty or sixty years ago, it was a US law that men could beat
> their wives; I would say that made chattel and slaves of wives. The
> "rule of thumb" saying is related to that law; the stick with which
> they beat their wives had to be no bigger than their thumb, or the
> judge's thumb, etc. Rule #1; marry a man with very small hands.

> > Moses had women ostracized from their families during every menstrual
> > cycle, then required them to give a "sin sacrifice" when the cycle was
> > finished.  He also required a "sin sacrifice" whenever a woman gave
> > birth, and ruled that a woman was "unclean" for days after birthing.

> > Anything a woman sat on during her period was "unclean."

> I can see that; it would have decayed menstrual blood on it. Yuck.
> That has to be quickly germ-ridden and thus unhealthy. It is not like
> normal blood. I think a lot of the 'laws' like that had to do with
> avoiding unhealthy practices.

> Many people today won't have sexual relations while the woman is
> menstruating, and it isn't because Moses forbade it.