Hate the sin: but, love the sinner???
Tim
As often as that sentiment is posted on these newsgroups, I would
think it must be a Biblical statement. I've used my best Bible
software to search for that or a similar phrase in a number of
versions. I do not find it in Scripture. Can anyone give a verse
where that is stated. NOT, human reasoning about why it should be so,
but where is it stated, either as a description of God's workings, or
as instruction for us.
There seem to be two classes of people in Scripture, one class loved,
the other class hated:
CLASS I -
Romans 5:8-10 NRSV
8 But God proves his love for us in that while we still were sinners
Christ died for us.9 Much more surely then, now that we have been
justified by his blood, will we be saved through him from the wrath of
God.10 For if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through
the death of his Son, much more surely, having been reconciled, will
we be saved by his life.
Jeremiah 31:3 NRSV
3 the Lord appeared to him from far away.
I have loved you with an everlasting love;
therefore I have continued my faithfulness to you.
CLASS II -
Psalm 5:5 NRSV
5 The boastful will not stand before your eyes; you hate all
evildoers.
Romans 9:13-14 NRSV
13 As it is written, I have loved Jacob, but I have hated Esau.
14 What then are we to say? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no
means!
God's Word gives us both CLASSES in one passage:
Romans 9:22-23 NRSV
22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his
power, has endured with much patience the objects of wrath that are
made for destruction;23 and what if he has done so in order to make
known the riches of his glory for the objects of mercy, which he has
prepared beforehand for glory
I'm using that liberal, modernist NRSV though, that must be where this
idea came from I'm posting? The old-timers didn't believe that! ??
Martin Luther(1483-1546), Bondage of the Will, Section CI -
"..the love and hatred of God towards men is immutable and eternal;
existing, not only before there was any merit or work of 'Free-will,'
but before the worlds were made; and that, all things take place in us
from necessity, accordingly as He loved or loved not from all
eternity."
Westminster Confession of Faith(1647), Presbyterian -
"By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men
and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life; and others
foreordained to everlasting death."
The First London Confession of Faith(1646), Baptists -
"And God hath before the foundation of the world, foreordained some
men to eternal life, through Jesus Christ, to the praise and glory of
His grace; leaving the rest in their sin to their just condemnation,
to the praise of His justice."
The great Anglican evangelist, George Whitefield(1714-1770)
"I frankly acknowledge, I believe the doctrine of reprobation, that
God intends to give saving grace, through Jesus Christ, only to a
certain number; and that the rest of mankind, after the fall of Adam,
being justly left of God to continue in sin, will at last suffer that
eternal death which is its proper wages. This is the established
doctrine of scripture; and acknowledged as such in the 17th Article of
the Church of England..." Taken from a letter to John Wesley.
Things to think about. Who is the modernist liberal; and which is
orthodox and Biblical? Note: the above is a mix of single and double
predestinarian thought.
Tim
Stephen Rigg
Tim,
It is very clear in the Bible, that God hates sin. There are many verses
that relate that, as I am sure you well know. There are several lists of
things that are an abomination to God, meaning that He hates them.
It is also very clear that God loves sinners, since He sent His only
begotten Son, Jesus, to die at the hand of the very sinners that He was
dying for.
If you would like I will list some specific verses that state that God does
Hate sin but loves sinners. Not tonight though.
Of course, if we call ourselves Christians, then we hate sin as God does,
right? Old things are passed away, and behold all things are become new?
Stephen
Stephen Rigg
Stephen Rigg
Stephen Rigg
Stephen Rigg
Tim
On 3 Apr 1998 04:41:52 GMT, "Stephen Rigg" <Rigg...@frontiernet.net>
wrote:
>If you would like I will list some specific verses that state that God does
>Hate sin but loves sinners. Not tonight though.
>Stephen
Just think of the good study you are getting searching for those
specific verses! Newsgroup debate if Bible centered is good. I am
constantly searching the Bible. Yes, I keep on learning as well.
Tim
Beli...@real.net
>Tim,
>
>It is very clear in the Bible, that God hates sin. There are many verses
>that relate that, as I am sure you well know. There are several lists of
>things that are an abomination to God, meaning that He hates them.
>
>It is also very clear that God loves sinners, since He sent His only
>begotten Son, Jesus, to die at the hand of the very sinners that He was
>dying for.
>
>If you would like I will list some specific verses that state that God does
>Hate sin but loves sinners. Not tonight though.
>
>Of course, if we call ourselves Christians, then we hate sin as God does,
>right? Old things are passed away, and behold all things are become new?
>
>Stephen
>
Stephen you may want to rethink your position about God hating sin but
loving the sinner. The Bible says in Psalms 11:5 "The Lord loves the
righteous, but the wicked His soul hates."
Yes God hates sin, and yes God loved all His Creation, including
sinners enough to die for us and He proved that. He veiled Himself in
flesh and came to earth as a man to show that man is able to meet His
standards and became the acceptable sacrifice that He said He would
accept. It doesn't matter if we agree, we are not the one who will
judge, He is.
I'm afraid we are saturated with Christian cliches instead of the word
of God. I am not scolding you, I want to ask you to - not read - but
study - the word of God.
Get a good book by a real Bible scholer like J. Vernon McGee to use in
studying. The Bible will seperate Christian cliches from God's Word
and when you study you will begin to seperate the truth from Grandma's
gospel.
There is three kinds of Gospel not counting Satan's translation. 1.
The Gospel of Jesus Christ. 2. The gospel of Grandma. 3. Barroom
gospel. Only the gospel of Jesus is true. Grandma manages to get all
the things she hates in her gospel using "Don't defile the Temple of
The Holy Spirit" method. Barroom gospel is whatever sounds good and
makes losers sound smart, like winners, so they can feel righteous and
better than those pious and holier than thou, Christians.
Another thing you might watch for is these feel good cliches that make
God seem like a grandfatherly, kind, old man that loves everybody too
much to even suggest they might be wrong or unloved.
The above verse is real, its translation is correct and it goes along
with many things Jesus told those that were trying to cause people to
go to hell. Those that deliberately try to sabotage God's Plan for the
ages and make a mockary of the blood of The Son of God.
Another thing you might be careful about is the temptation to read the
whole Bible as if it were a big book of proverbs. It isn't. all the
books except the book of proverbs is to be read as an undfolding story
and from beginning to end, at one setting if possible. All of the
Bible comes togather that way, God doesn't seem like an old fool with
warm and mushy love and you are better able to understand it by
reading the whole book without stopping.
Mycroft;-)
Stephen Rigg wrote in message
<6g1pag$2i8k$1...@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net>...
>Tim,
>
>It is very clear in the Bible, that God hates sin. There are many verses
>that relate that, as I am sure you well know. There are several lists of
>things that are an abomination to God, meaning that He hates them.
>
>It is also very clear that God loves sinners, since He sent His only
>begotten Son, Jesus, to die at the hand of the very sinners that He was
>dying for.
>
>If you would like I will list some specific verses that state that God does
>Hate sin but loves sinners. Not tonight though.
>
>Of course, if we call ourselves Christians, then we hate sin as God does,
>right? Old things are passed away, and behold all things are become new?
>
>Stephen
>
"God is Love" remember? He cannot hate. Hatred comes from man. In this case,
homophobes.
M