THE NEW CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
Le Critic!
By Lloyd Lewis
July 30, 2000
A recent issue of Time magazine featured a full-length article on the
issue of full inclusion of lesbians, gays, bi-sexuals, and transgendered
("LGBT") in mainline Protestant denominations. At issue are two
controversial questions regarding the ordination of LGBT ministers and
same sex blessings or unions. At conventions held by the major
Protestant denominations this summer, the issue of full inclusion of
LGBT
in the life of the church were dominant topics of debate. Fully a third
or more of delegates to the Methodist and Presbyterian conventions voted
on behalf of LGBT rights; and at the Episcopal convention (held in
Denver)
delegates voted to support relationships outside of marriage, a not so
thinly veiled first step in recognition of same sex relationships.
These
church debates, of course, are emblematic of a larger struggle for
recognition of LGBT rights in all sectors of American society, and the
emergence of the LGBT civil rights agenda on an increasingly national
setting.
Moreover, increasing numbers of heterosexuals, such as many members of
the
Methodist and Presbyterian conventions, the majority of the delegates to
the Episcopal convention, and many of the politicians in the Vermont
legislature (and many other state legislatures), are becoming
increasingly
aware of the civil rights dangers posed by the phenomena of homophobia
and
heterosexism, with the inevitable comparisons to racism and sexism.
As an example, nearly two years ago, a large number of heterosexual
members of my former church protested the dismissal of a lesbian youth
minister, and a very large number also resigned from this church in
protest of this dismissal, including myself.
This was an important issue of full inclusion and love in the manner of
Christ, and perhaps more important for my generation than for some
others,
for my generation came of age during a time just following the campaign
for racial equality led by Martin Luther King.
After I left my church in protest of the dismissal of the lesbian youth
minister, I found another church, with more acceptance for diversity and
full inclusion in its membership and parish life. At this church, I met
a
wonderful gay couple, intelligent, warm, and motivated to do justice.
They
were part of a group, "Soulforce", who went to Lynchburg, Virginia to
meet
with Jerry Falwell and members of his fundamentalist congregation and
university. Soulforce is a group dedicated to full inclusion of LGBT in
all aspects of religious life and American churches. Modeled after the
Gandhian and black civil rights campaigns, Soulforce is an ecumenical
group. At its first non-violent direct action in Cleveland earlier this
summer (for the Methodist convention), it counted among its marchers
descendants of previous civil rights icons, including Yolanda King and
Arun Ghandi, both of whom had never been arrested prior to this direct
action.
My girlfriend and I were moved by this group and their adherence to the
principles of Ghandi and King, and committed to join and support planned
direct actions for the Presbyterian and Episcopal conventions. As a
result, we have both now been trained in the "soulforce" vows to
non-violence, signing pledge cards originally signed by marchers led by
Martin Luther King, which asked those who pledged to "meditate on the
life
and teachings of Jesus" and to "walk and talk in the manner of love".
Additionally, hundreds and hundreds of Soulforce participants, Christian
and non-Christian, LGBT and straight, have been arrested in these direct
actions, which are motivated by soulforce principles calling for acts of
redemptive suffering. Personally, I have participated on two occasions,
in each case receiving a misdemeanor citation, and in each instance
profoundly moved by the experience of participating in the arena of
human
and civil rights, and by the simple act of taking a small stand for
equality and full inclusion.
In Denver at the Episcopal convention, we stood in silent vigil as
members
of the various delegations arrived for the opening session of the
convention. Behind us, a beautiful chorus sang softly; and I was
profoundly moved when they begin to sing "We Shall Overcome". We were
there on July 4, and I had driven in the heat, with my car faltering, to
be there.
I was moved by the people I knew among the protestors, friends and
fellow
parishioners from Colorado. A gay couple, who I knew from church, stood
among the frontlines. A straight woman from my diocese, who I didn't
expect to see, also stood along the front lines. The terminated lesbian
youth minister of my former church directed the beautiful chorus of
dozens
of women and men who sang to us. And a female priest who was a deputy
of
the convention (and a personal friend) also stopped by to sing with us.
We hugged, and exchanged encouragement, and listened to a former Bishop
of
the church speak, along with priests and the civil rights leader Mel
White. Afterwards, we gathered at a nearby house for a July 4 picnic.
In many ways, we live in a cynical age, an age of avoidance of political
involvement and disassociation from problems of others, particularly
those
who are different from us and who are easily and conveniently dismissed.
This was also the case in the age of Jesus, who in his life and
teachings
instructed us to get involved, to associate with those who were
considered
outcast, and to refrain from dismissing anyone. Indeed, we are blessed
by
this new civil rights movement, for the beautiful people who are willing
and generous to share their hopes and dreams and aspirations, and who
give
us an opportunity to reach out and be Christian in a way that matters.
Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Heights/1734
-
Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
http://www.ufmcc.com
--
~~~ Le (Reformed) Critic! ~~~ A Registered Voter who Votes ~~~
Ex-Fundamentalist Resource Center ~ http://www.losingmyreligion.com
http://www.truthtree.com ~ climb the Truth Tree, reach enlightenment
The Bible's silence on homosexuality ~ http://www.visionsofdaniel.com
Brenda G. Tataryn
thankyou for posting this......
blessings
Brenda
Le Critic!
Thank you very much, I am glad that you appreciated it. What I want
most of all, is a future in which organized religions do not conflict
with homosexuality, and homosexuality is a non-issue. Then we can all
focus on the real problems in the world like disease, war, crime,
poverty, and hunger. There is no reason for homosexuality to be cast in
a negative light, or for gays to be discriminated against. This only
causes division, separation, and alienation, and many younger gays "drop
out" of their Church for this reason, and many who would otherwise
become Priests or Nuns, decide against it. There must be a
reconciliation, and an acceptance of what modern science and
sociological has taught us about human sexuality. We CANNOT stay
trapped in the past, in the old ways of thinking.
--
~~~ Le (Reformed) Critic! ~~~ A Registered Voter who Votes ~~~
Paul James
As Christians we must uphold the word of God.
Paul James
Le Critic! wrote in message <398BB6C2...@aol.com>...
>THE NEW CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
>By Lloyd Lewis
>July 30, 2000
>
>
>This was an important issue of full inclusion and love in the manner of
>Christ, and perhaps more important for my generation than for some
>others,
>for my generation came of age during a time just following the campaign
>for racial equality led by Martin Luther King.
>
>After I left my church in protest of the dismissal of the lesbian youth
>minister, I found another church, with more acceptance for diversity and
>full inclusion in its membership and parish life. At this church, I met a
>wonderful gay couple, intelligent, warm, and motivated to do justice.
>They
>were part of a group, "Soulforce", who went to Lynchburg, Virginia to
>meet
>with Jerry Falwell and members of his fundamentalist congregation and
>university. Soulforce is a group dedicated to full inclusion of LGBT in
>all aspects of religious life and American churches. >
Brenda G. Tataryn
> Re: THE NEW CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
>
> From: "Paul James" <Ja...@4v15.swinternet.co.uk>
> Reply to: [1] "Paul James"
> Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 19:16:32 +0100
>
>See Romans chapter One verses 18 to 28
>
>As Christians we must uphold the word of God.
>
>Paul James
*** You do not speak for all Christians...neither does the Bible.
Brenda
Don Koenig
Brenda
Now that is a stupid statement of course the bible speaks for Christians all
of our beliefs are founded on it. Also, Christians do speak for Christians
you want us to speak for pagans?
Don
"Brenda G. Tataryn" <wt...@victoria.tc.ca> wrote in message
news:398c...@news.victoria.tc.ca...
Brenda G. Tataryn
> Re: THE NEW CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
>
> Reply to: [1] "Don Koenig"
> Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 11:20:46 -0700
>
>
>Brenda
>
>Now that is a stupid statement of course the bible speaks for Christians all
>of our beliefs are founded on it. Also, Christians do speak for Christians
>you want us to speak for pagans?
*** Which bible???? There are many Christian bibles.
I am a Christian and the Bible of KJV is not my bible.
Brenda
>
>Don
>"Brenda G. Tataryn" <wt...@victoria.tc.ca> wrote in message
>[8] news:398c...@news.victoria.tc.ca...
Snowman
Brenda G. Tataryn wrote in message <398c...@news.victoria.tc.ca>...
>>
>> Re: THE NEW CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
>>
>> From: "Don Koenig" <DKo...@TheRiver.com>
>> Reply to: [1] "Don Koenig"
>> Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 11:20:46 -0700
>>
>>
>>Brenda
>>
>>Now that is a stupid statement of course the bible speaks for Christians
all
>>of our beliefs are founded on it. Also, Christians do speak for Christians
>>you want us to speak for pagans?
>
>*** Which bible???? There are many Christian bibles.
>I am a Christian and the Bible of KJV is not my bible.
>Brenda
>Although there is only one Bible,
there are many TRANSLATIONS of it.
The New International Version(NIV)is
generally held to be the most acurate.
How is that passage from Romans
worded in the NIV?
Don Koenig
They pretty much say all the same thing. They are just translations of the
original manuscripts and you know it.
Don
"Brenda G. Tataryn" <wt...@victoria.tc.ca> wrote in message
news:398c...@news.victoria.tc.ca...
> >
> > Re: THE NEW CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
> >
> > From: "Don Koenig" <DKo...@TheRiver.com>
> > Reply to: [1] "Don Koenig"
> > Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 11:20:46 -0700
> >
> >
> >Brenda
> >
> >Now that is a stupid statement of course the bible speaks for Christians
all
> >of our beliefs are founded on it. Also, Christians do speak for
Christians
> >you want us to speak for pagans?
>
> *** Which bible???? There are many Christian bibles.
> I am a Christian and the Bible of KJV is not my bible.
> Brenda
>
>
>
> >
> >Don
> >"Brenda G. Tataryn" <wt...@victoria.tc.ca> wrote in message
> >[8] news:398c...@news.victoria.tc.ca...
> >> >
> >> > Re: THE NEW CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
> >> >
> >> > From: "Paul James" <Ja...@4v15.swinternet.co.uk>
> >> > Reply to: [1] "Paul James"
> >> > Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 19:16:32 +0100
> >> >
> >> >See Romans chapter One verses 18 to 28
> >> >
> >> >As Christians we must uphold the word of God.
> >> >
> >> >Paul James
> >>
> >>
> >> *** You do not speak for all Christians...neither does the Bible.
> >> Brenda
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Le Critic! wrote in message <398BB6C2...@aol.com>...
> >> >>THE NEW CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
Brenda G. Tataryn
> Re: THE NEW CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
>
> From: "Don Koenig" <DKo...@TheRiver.com>
> Reply to: [1] "Don Koenig"
> Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 13:39:42 -0700
>
>Brenda
>
>They pretty much say all the same thing. They are just translations of the
>original manuscripts and you know it.
>
>Don
*** My goodness you are rude to a complete stranger. Yes I know this but
a lot of Christians are only into the KJV and some of the more well known
Bibles and tend to force the dogma on others. I am a strong believer in
the Gnostic Bible ..Essense mystery teachings and many parts that came
from the Dead Sea Scrolls. I also am more of a Jamesian and Christian
follower then a Paulian.
I do not wish for one Christian to say what a Christian is any more then I
want one Black person to speak for all Black peoples.
blessings
Brenda
Le Critic!
>
> See Romans chapter One verses 18 to 28
>
> As Christians we must uphold the word of God.
>
Incorrect. See http://www.visionsofdaniel.com
The Bible does not condemn homosexuality as such;
[...]Ezekial 16:48-49 and Wisdom 9:13-14 define outright the sin of
Sodom (Genesis 19): pride, hatred, abuse, hardheartedness (sounds like
the fundamentalists, no?); they never mention sex. Or again, the
"unnatural" in Romans 1:28-29 should be translated "atypical" or
"unconventional." Understood on its own terms, the Bible offers no
blanket condemnation of homosexual acts. See D.A. Helminiak, "What the
Bible Really Says About Homosexuality" (Alamo Square Press, 1994).
Le Critic!
>
> Brenda
>
> Now that is a stupid statement of course the bible speaks for Christians all
> of our beliefs are founded on it. Also, Christians do speak for Christians
> you want us to speak for pagans?
There is much variation within Christianity, as you should know. From
Greek Orthodox to Mormon to Southern Baptist to Unitarian, there is a
wide range of opinions. No church and certainly no person can speak for
all Christians, or for that matter, even a majority. (A plurality,
perhaps: that would be the RCC, but there is great division within the
ranks even there. American Catholicism <> Roman Catholicism!)
Brenda is a good lady and certainly not "stupid" in any sense of the
word. I found that to be a rather un-Christian remark, but am willing
to forgive you.
Le Critic!
>
> >Although there is only one Bible,
> there are many TRANSLATIONS of it.
> The New International Version(NIV)is
> generally held to be the most acurate.
One must go back to the original Hebrew and Greek sources to achieve the
highest accuracy of interpretation. That is why many priests (and not
just Catholics) learn these ancient languages in seminary.
> How is that passage from Romans
> worded in the NIV?
refer to http://www.visionsofdaniel.com
====================================================
The Bible does not condemn homosexuality as such;
[...]Ezekial 16:48-49 and Wisdom 9:13-14 define outright the sin of
Sodom (Genesis 19): pride, hatred, abuse, hardheartedness (sounds like
the fundamentalists, no?); they never mention sex. Or again, the
"unnatural" in Romans 1:28-29 should be translated "atypical" or
"unconventional." Understood on its own terms, the Bible offers no
blanket condemnation of homosexual acts. See D.A. Helminiak, "What the
Bible Really Says About Homosexuality" (Alamo Square Press, 1994).
====================================================
Le Critic!
>
> >They pretty much say all the same thing. They are just translations of the
> >original manuscripts and you know it.
> >
> >Don
>
> *** My goodness you are rude to a complete stranger.
I thought he was too, Brenda. But, we can pray for him and maybe the
Lord will see fit to show him the way.
> Yes I know this but
> a lot of Christians are only into the KJV and some of the more well known
> Bibles and tend to force the dogma on others. I am a strong believer in
> the Gnostic Bible ..Essense mystery teachings and many parts that came
> from the Dead Sea Scrolls. I also am more of a Jamesian and Christian
> follower then a Paulian.
> I do not wish for one Christian to say what a Christian is any more then I
> want one Black person to speak for all Black peoples.
That's what I was pointing out above. No one can speak for all
Christians, with the possible exception of Jesus, and until he arrives,
our best guide is love, compassion, toleration of others including
minorities, and Science. Scientific discovery has given us these
wonderful computers and the Internet. Science now tells us that
homosexuality is what a person is born with. What more needs to be
said?
P.S. If you are running that web site,
The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Heights/1734
It's the greatest! I think EVERY CHRISTIAN should visit this web site!
It is a spiritual duty!
Ben Mitts
>
> "Brenda G. Tataryn" wrote:
> >
> > fantastic and beautiful!!!!
> > thankyou for posting this......
> > blessings
> > Brenda
>
> Thank you very much, I am glad that you appreciated it. What I want
> most of all, is a future in which organized religions do not conflict
> with homosexuality, and homosexuality is a non-issue. Then we can all
> focus on the real problems in the world like disease, war, crime,
> poverty, and hunger. There is no reason for homosexuality to be cast in
> a negative light, or for gays to be discriminated against. This only
> causes division, separation, and alienation, and many younger gays "drop
> out" of their Church for this reason, and many who would otherwise
> become Priests or Nuns, decide against it. There must be a
> reconciliation, and an acceptance of what modern science and
> sociological has taught us about human sexuality. We CANNOT stay
> trapped in the past, in the old ways of thinking.
>
> ~~~ Le (Reformed) Critic! ~~~ A Registered Voter who Votes ~~~
> The Bible's silence on homosexuality ~ http://www.visionsofdaniel.com
As long as Jesus Christ is on His
Heavenly Throne there never will
be peace in the lives of non-be-
lievers life. Everything that
goes against Scripture teaching
stands to fall in it's own desire
to circumvent the life God has
set before mankind so that all
may know Him by believing in Jesus
Christ!
But then anything against Scripture
serves a different master!
Where Jesus Christ is ruled out of
Society and personal lives there
can be no peace. Deconstructing
the Bible so that one can live as
they see fit eventually leads to
destruction.
One only has to look at the Hist-
orical Facts to see what happens
to those who have disdain for God.
One could study The Old Testament
and get a good idea also. Life
without Jesus Christ is hollow and
useless. A life lived in and for
Jesus leads to the riches and glory
God promises to those who accept
Salvation in Jesus Christ. He is
the stumbling block that stands be-
fore mankind's search for life with
in mans own limited boundaries!
Religion your way or mankind's way
leads to death. Walking by Faith
in the Love of Jesus Christ leads
to Eternal Life! You cant have
both!
dapreacher
Ben Mitts
>
> >
> > Re: THE NEW CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
> >
> >
> >See Romans chapter One verses 18 to 28
> >
> >As Christians we must uphold the word of God.
> >
>
> *** You do not speak for all Christians...neither does the Bible.
> Brenda
Now you know two of us!
Sorry to burst you bubble Brenda, but all
Believers who live for Jesus Christ have
full authority to Speak for Him. Also we
have a call to preach and teach His word
to all the world!
You say we dont speak foe Jesus, can you
prove it by not just saying,.."You do not
speak for all Christians" This statement
unless you can back up what you say!
dapreacher
Ben Mitts
> *** Which bible???? There are many Christian bibles.
> I am a Christian and the Bible of KJV is not my bible.
Then what is your bible
Brenda?
dapreacher
Ben Mitts
>
> >
> > Re: THE NEW CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
> >
> > Reply to: [1] "Don Koenig"
> > Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 13:39:42 -0700
> >
> >Brenda
> >
> >original manuscripts and you know it.
> >
> >Don
>
> a lot of Christians are only into the KJV and some of the more well known
> Bibles and tend to force the dogma on others. I am a strong believer in
> the Gnostic Bible ..Essense mystery teachings and many parts that came
> from the Dead Sea Scrolls. I also am more of a Jamesian and Christian
> follower then a Paulian.
> I do not wish for one Christian to say what a Christian is any more then I
> want one Black person to speak for all Black peoples.
> Brenda
Why didn't you say you
do not believe in Jesus
Christ! Had you done so
you would have/been better
understood!
dapreacher
fervent
And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will. II Tim 2:24-26
fervent
> >
> > >They pretty much say all the same thing. They are just translations of the
> > >original manuscripts and you know it.
> > >
> > >Don
> >
> > *** My goodness you are rude to a complete stranger.
>
> Lord will see fit to show him the way.
>
> > a lot of Christians are only into the KJV and some of the more well known
> > Bibles and tend to force the dogma on others. I am a strong believer in
> > the Gnostic Bible ..Essense mystery teachings and many parts that came
> > from the Dead Sea Scrolls. I also am more of a Jamesian and Christian
> > follower then a Paulian.
> > I do not wish for one Christian to say what a Christian is any more then I
> > want one Black person to speak for all Black peoples.
>
> Christians, with the possible exception of Jesus, and until he arrives,
> our best guide is love, compassion, toleration of others including
> minorities, and Science. Scientific discovery has given us these
> wonderful computers and the Internet. Science now tells us that
> homosexuality is what a person is born with. What more needs to be
> said?
>
fervent
homosexuality is what a person is born with. What more needs to be
said? >
Le Critic!
I'm afraid your message does not have anything to do with our
discussion.
--
~~~ Le (Reformed) Critic! ~~~ A Registered Voter who Votes ~~~
Ex-Fundamentalist Resource Center ~ http://www.losingmyreligion.com
Le Critic!
>
> "Brenda G. Tataryn" wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >As Christians we must uphold the word of God.
> > >
> > >Paul James
> >
> > *** You do not speak for all Christians...neither does the Bible.
> > Brenda
>
> Now you know two of us!
>
> Sorry to burst you bubble Brenda, but all
> Believers who live for Jesus Christ have
> full authority to Speak for Him. Also we
> have a call to preach and teach His word
> to all the world!
Then in that case, so does Brenda.
> You say we dont speak foe Jesus, can you
> prove it by not just saying,.."You do not
> speak for all Christians" This statement
> unless you can back up what you say!
Whenever the word "prove" is mentioned in a debate about Christianity,
the thread dies.
Le Critic!
>
> "Brenda G. Tataryn" wrote:
>
> > I am a Christian and the Bible of KJV is not my bible.
>
> Then what is your bible
> Brenda?
The Gnostic Bible, I believe she said earlier.
Le Critic!
>
> > >Brenda
> > >
> > >They pretty much say all the same thing. They are just translations of the
> > >original manuscripts and you know it.
> > >
> > >Don
> >
> > a lot of Christians are only into the KJV and some of the more well known
> > Bibles and tend to force the dogma on others. I am a strong believer in
> > the Gnostic Bible ..Essense mystery teachings and many parts that came
> > from the Dead Sea Scrolls. I also am more of a Jamesian and Christian
> > follower then a Paulian.
> > I do not wish for one Christian to say what a Christian is any more then I
> > want one Black person to speak for all Black peoples.
> > Brenda
>
> Why didn't you say you
> do not believe in Jesus
> Christ! Had you done so
> you would have/been better
> understood!
I don't believe that is the case. Search for "Gnosticism" on the Net,
or look it up in your encyclopedia.
Brenda G. Tataryn
> Re: THE NEW CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
>
> Reply to: [1] bmi...@dundee.net
> Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 08:48:03 GMT
> References:
> [7] <398c...@news.victoria.tc.ca>
>
>"Brenda G. Tataryn" wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Re: THE NEW CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
>> >
>> >
>> >See Romans chapter One verses 18 to 28
>> >
>> >As Christians we must uphold the word of God.
>> >
>> >Paul James
>>
>> *** You do not speak for all Christians...neither does the Bible.
>> Brenda
>
>Now you know two of us!
>
>Sorry to burst you bubble Brenda, but all
>Believers who live for Jesus Christ have
>full authority to Speak for Him. Also we
>have a call to preach and teach His word
>to all the world!
>
>prove it by not just saying,.."You do not
>speak for all Christians" This statement
>unless you can back up what you say!
>
***easy. A Christian comes up to me and says "Jesus told me that we must
kill so and so because he is a witch." Sorry I don't say that as a
Christian so he does not speak for me.
Brenda
Brenda G. Tataryn
> Re: THE NEW CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
>
> From: Ben Mitts <bmi...@dundee.net>
> Reply to: [1] bmi...@dundee.net
> Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 08:52:10 GMT
> [7] <398c...@news.victoria.tc.ca>
>
>"Brenda G. Tataryn" wrote:
>
>> I am a Christian and the Bible of KJV is not my bible.
>
>Then what is your bible
>Brenda?
I like the Nag Hammaradi and also the teachings
of the Essenes and Unity texts.
These are my Christian Bibles. Why?
Brenda
>
>dapreacher
Brenda G. Tataryn
> Re: THE NEW CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
>
> From: Ben Mitts <bmi...@dundee.net>
> Reply to: [1] bmi...@dundee.net
>> > From: "Don Koenig" <DKo...@TheRiver.com>
>> > Reply to: [1] "Don Koenig"
*** because I do not lie. Not everything is black and white.
There are many shades of Grey within Christianity and the mysteries.
Brenda
Brenda G. Tataryn
> Re: THE NEW CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
>
> Reply to: [1] "fervent"
> Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 06:25:35 -0700
>fervent
>
`>No matter where this issue is raised, it seems to me that the only ones
=
>who embrace the belief that homosexuality is ok, is the homosexuals. =
>The reason for that is obvious. Any Christian who stands upon the word =
>of God as it is plainly written, is automatically branded an intolerant =
>extreme right wing fundamentalist and not worthy of a hearing. I for one =
>stand for the kingdom of Jesus Christ and His righteousness. God, who =
>created us, did not create the male penis to be inserted in a male =
>rectum. If any body believes this, he is a loony toon, The true =
>Christian witness will always refute homosexual aberrations. It is =
>ungodly, and goes against the very nature of creation. You wrest the =
>scriptures to imply it is ok by God, so you can do your thing and not be =
>seared in your conscience. It does not change the sin, just makes the =
>perpetrators feel better about it.=20
**** well hmmm then the mere fact that many homosexual men never practise
anal sex and instead are 100% oral is that okay with you?
What of the even larger amount of heterosexuals that practise anal sex?
Now what about the Lesbians? they very rarely practise anal sex.
So? Why in the heck would God care if people stick it up their noses if no
one got hurt? God cares about responsibility and love and joy and
pleasure.
If you don't like anal sex...then don't do it.
Blessings
Brenda
Paul Duca
fervent wrote:
And what if God did not create fervent to be wealthy and important, with a fancy house and a hot, horny wife?
Paul
Diana
--
To forgive is to set a prisoner free and
discover the prisoner was you.
"Paul Duca" <toms...@mediaone.net> wrote in message news:398D9654...@mediaone.net...fervent wrote:
And what if God did not create fervent to be wealthy and important, with a fancy house and a hot, horny wife?
Paul
Diana
his people come out in the daytime. Oh guess it must be because he knows he
is on borrowed time. :-)
Diana
--
To forgive is to set a prisoner free and
discover the prisoner was you.
"Brenda G. Tataryn" <wt...@victoria.tc.ca> wrote in message
news:398d...@news.victoria.tc.ca...
: >
: > Re: THE NEW CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
: >
: > From: "fervent" <del...@attcanada.ca>
: > Reply to: [1] "fervent"
: > Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 06:25:35 -0700
:
: >fervent
: >
: `>No matter where this issue is raised, it seems to me that the only ones
: =
: >who embrace the belief that homosexuality is ok, is the homosexuals. =
: >The reason for that is obvious. Any Christian who stands upon the word =
: >of God as it is plainly written, is automatically branded an intolerant =
: >extreme right wing fundamentalist and not worthy of a hearing. I for one
=
: >stand for the kingdom of Jesus Christ and His righteousness. God, who =
: >created us, did not create the male penis to be inserted in a male =
Brenda G. Tataryn
it is the name of a Goddess.
lovingly yours Brenda
Ben Mitts
>
> Ben Mitts wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > "Brenda G. Tataryn" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > thankyou for posting this......
> > > > blessings
> > > > Brenda
> > >
> > > Thank you very much, I am glad that you appreciated it. What I want
> > > most of all, is a future in which organized religions do not conflict
> > > with homosexuality, and homosexuality is a non-issue. Then we can all
> > > focus on the real problems in the world like disease, war, crime,
> > > poverty, and hunger. There is no reason for homosexuality to be cast in
> > > a negative light, or for gays to be discriminated against. This only
> > > causes division, separation, and alienation, and many younger gays "drop
> > > out" of their Church for this reason, and many who would otherwise
> > > become Priests or Nuns, decide against it. There must be a
> > > reconciliation, and an acceptance of what modern science and
> > > sociological has taught us about human sexuality. We CANNOT stay
> > > trapped in the past, in the old ways of thinking.
> > >
> > > ~~~ Le (Reformed) Critic! ~~~ A Registered Voter who Votes ~~~
> > > The Bible's silence on homosexuality ~ http://www.visionsofdaniel.com
> >
Oh! but it does!
You want a life where everything goes.
Free love, just the way you like it,
whatever way ever way you can get it.
No Boundaries. No rules or cares. Just
love, more love. You want Sodom re-
visited! No God, nothing to to stand
in your way. You want religions to
quit bugging you so you can live in a
homosexual world, undisturbed so you
can fight to right all the wrongs in
the world. You believe that if World
Religions would just stop with the Hom-
osexual thing you all could right the
World.
World religions are not your problem!
You want to delude the World into be-
lieving your way of life is right but
You forget three things that keep you
and from having it your way. God, Je-
sus Christ and The Holy Spirit. You
have to defeat God in order to have a
world like you say should be. True
World Christian Churches will always
stand in the way of what you propose
because Jesus Christ drives them!
Sorry my friend but the World you ad-
vocate has been around since Adam and
Eve. It will be like this until THe
master comes again to take His Church
out and then you can have your World
just the you like, but only for a time
BTW the way go walk the streets and see
the results of what happens in the life
you seek. But then of course you be-
lieve that if religions would just get
off your backs with this Homo thingy
you dislike you could save the World!
Po Mo thinking- man can do it better
than God can. Cant we just get along
Heresy!
dapreacher
Ben Mitts
> Whenever the word "prove" is mentioned in a debate about Christianity,
> the thread dies.
It should if one cant back
up what one writes about
Christianity! But then non
believers dont have to follow
the same rules they impose on
Believers when involved in
discussions
dapreachar
Ben Mitts
>
> Ben Mitts wrote:
> >
> >
> > > *** Which bible???? There are many Christian bibles.
> > > I am a Christian and the Bible of KJV is not my bible.
> >
> > Then what is your bible
> > Brenda?
>
>
> ~~~ Le (Reformed) Critic! ~~~ A Registered Voter who Votes ~~~
> The Bible's silence on homosexuality ~ http://www.visionsofdaniel.com
Do speak for Brenda
LeClerc? She cant
answer for herself?
dapreacher
Ben Mitts
> fervent
>
> No matter where this issue is raised, it seems to me that the only
> ones who embrace the belief that homosexuality is ok, is the
> homosexuals. The reason for that is obvious. Any Christian who
> stands upon the word of God as it is plainly written, is automatically
> branded an intolerant extreme right wing fundamentalist and not worthy
> of a hearing. I for one stand for the kingdom of Jesus Christ and His
> righteousness. God, who created us, did not create the male penis to
> be inserted in a male rectum. If any body believes this, he is a
> loony toon, The true Christian witness will always refute homosexual
> aberrations. It is ungodly, and goes against the very nature of
> creation. You wrest the scriptures to imply it is ok by God, so you
> can do your thing and not be seared in your conscience. It does not
> change the sin, just makes the perpetrators feel better about it.
>
> --
> And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all
> men, apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those that oppose
> themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the
> acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out
> of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
> II Tim 2:24-26
Well Spoken
dapreacher
Ben Mitts
>
> >
> > Re: THE NEW CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
> >
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Re: THE NEW CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
> >> >
> >> > Reply to: [1] "Paul James"
> >> > Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 19:16:32 +0100
> >> >
> >> >See Romans chapter One verses 18 to 28
> >> >
> >> >As Christians we must uphold the word of God.
> >> >
> >> >Paul James
> >>
> >> *** You do not speak for all Christians...neither does the Bible.
> >> Brenda
> >
> >Now you know two of us!
> >
> >Sorry to burst you bubble Brenda, but all
> >Believers who live for Jesus Christ have
> >full authority to Speak for Him. Also we
> >have a call to preach and teach His word
> >to all the world!
> >
> >You say we dont speak foe Jesus, can you
> >prove it by not just saying,.."You do not
> >speak for all Christians" This statement
> >unless you can back up what you say!
> >
> >dapreacher
>
> ***easy. A Christian comes up to me and says "Jesus told me that we must
> kill so and so because he is a witch." Sorry I don't say that as a
> Christian so he does not speak for me.
> Brenda
With this foolish you prove
nothing of Who Jesus Christ
is and why He died on the
Cross, even for you!
dapreacher
Ben Mitts
>
> >
> > Re: THE NEW CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
> >
> > From: Ben Mitts <bmi...@dundee.net>
> > Reply to: [1] bmi...@dundee.net
> > Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 08:52:10 GMT
> > [7] <398c...@news.victoria.tc.ca>
> >
> >"Brenda G. Tataryn" wrote:
> >
> >> I am a Christian and the Bible of KJV is not my bible.
> >
> >Then what is your bible
> >Brenda?
>
> of the Essenes and Unity texts.
> These are my Christian Bibles. Why?
> Brenda
>
> >
> >dapreacher
Was wondering where you
were/are getting you info
on Christianity
dapreacher
Ben Mitts
>
> >
> > Re: THE NEW CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
> >
> > From: Ben Mitts <bmi...@dundee.net>
> > Reply to: [1] bmi...@dundee.net
> There are many shades of Grey within Christianity and the mysteries.
> Brenda
You referring to Worldly Christianity
or to True Christianity which is found
only by walking in Faith in Jesus Christ?
dapreacher
Ben Mitts
>
> >
> > Re: THE NEW CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
> >
> > Reply to: [1] "fervent"
> > Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 06:25:35 -0700
>
> >
> `>No matter where this issue is raised, it seems to me that the only ones
> >who embrace the belief that homosexuality is ok, is the homosexuals. =
> >The reason for that is obvious. Any Christian who stands upon the word =
> >of God as it is plainly written, is automatically branded an intolerant =
> >extreme right wing fundamentalist and not worthy of a hearing. I for one =
> >stand for the kingdom of Jesus Christ and His righteousness. God, who =
> >created us, did not create the male penis to be inserted in a male =
> >rectum. If any body believes this, he is a loony toon, The true =
> >Christian witness will always refute homosexual aberrations. It is =
> >ungodly, and goes against the very nature of creation. You wrest the =
> >scriptures to imply it is ok by God, so you can do your thing and not be =
> >seared in your conscience. It does not change the sin, just makes the =
> >perpetrators feel better about it.=20
>
> **** well hmmm then the mere fact that many homosexual men never practise
> anal sex and instead are 100% oral is that okay with you?
> What of the even larger amount of heterosexuals that practise anal sex?
> Now what about the Lesbians? they very rarely practise anal sex.
> So? Why in the heck would God care if people stick it up their noses if no
> one got hurt? God cares about responsibility and love and joy and
> pleasure.
> If you don't like anal sex...then don't do it.
> Blessings
> Brenda
The Bible teaches that no matter
how or why men or women practice
Homosexuality they are an "Abom-
ination unto the Lord God. There
fore any who practice it must de-
clare the Bible is wrong in order
to live the way they choose. Dont
feel to bad that you have to do
this, every other non-believer has
to do it in order to live the life
they wish to live. Sorta like be-
lieving that if one rewrites The
Scriptures a wee bit God won't
care!
dapreacher
Brenda G. Tataryn
> Re: THE NEW CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
>
> Organization: Dundee Internet Services (dundee.net)
>
>You want a life where everything goes.
>Free love, just the way you like it,
>whatever way ever way you can get it
>love, more love. You want Sodom re-
*** Love is wonderful and everyone has their own boundaries
dependant on morality based on harming no one and other things.
visited! No God, nothing to to stand
>in your way. You want religions to
>quit bugging you so you can live in a
>homosexual world, undisturbed so you
>can fight to right all the wrongs in
>the world. You believe that if World
*** My God which is everyones God has given us
joy and pleasure to delight in. NO one is talking about
rape,incest,careless unsafe sex...etc. We are talking of
mutual joy and ecstatic union with the God.****
>Religions would just stop with the Hom-
>osexual thing you all could right the
>World.
>
**** as long as the world has too many humans clogging her up
there will always be homosexuality to cut down on our overgrowth of
humans. Whether or not they still father/mother children there will be
a cut down. ****
>World religions are not your problem!
>You want to delude the World into be-
>lieving your way of life is right but
>You forget three things that keep you
>and from having it your way. God, Je-
>sus Christ and The Holy Spirit. You
>have to defeat God in order to have a
>world like you say should be. True
>World Christian Churches will always
>stand in the way of what you propose
>because Jesus Christ drives them!
>
*** you seem to think that the Fundie interpreted Bible is the
only way to go...still. We believe our faith is true. I have no
want to defeat God and that is a laugh that anyone could think that
they could.******************
>Sorry my friend but the World you ad-
>vocate has been around since Adam and
>Eve. It will be like this until THe
>master comes again to take His Church
>out and then you can have your World
>just the you like, but only for a time
**** Fundie Bible stuff that has nothing to do with me.
>
>BTW the way go walk the streets and see
>the results of what happens in the life
>you seek. But then of course you be-
>lieve that if religions would just get
>off your backs with this Homo thingy
>you dislike you could save the World!
>
**** I have many gay friends who lead wonderful lives filled with Joy
and Jesus and Mary and the Creator. The only ones who would dare to lift a
hand to them are homophobes,closet -homosexuals with chips on their
shoulders and Fundie Nazis.
>Po Mo thinking- man can do it better
>than God can. Cant we just get along
>Heresy!
>
*** Nope. God is within and around every being. We are all connected
and all of God. Man cannot exist (IMO) without God.
Brenda
>dapreacher
fervent
> > Re: THE NEW CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
> >
fervent
is in a namesake? My middle name is Charles, but the potential king of
England I am not. Your tactics are becoming so inane. It has already slid
down the ladder to name calling.
I perceive that you are an enemy of the cross. At first you sounded not
half bad, but a wolf is a wolf no matter how you dress him up.
--
And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt
to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if
God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the
truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil,
who are taken captive by him at his will. II Tim 2:24-26
"Brenda G. Tataryn" <wt...@victoria.tc.ca> wrote in message
news:398d...@news.victoria.tc.ca...
Brenda G. Tataryn
> Re: THE NEW CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
>
>"Le Critic!" wrote:
>>
>> Ben Mitts wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > > *** Which bible???? There are many Christian bibles.
>> > > I am a Christian and the Bible of KJV is not my bible.
>> >
>> > Then what is your bible
>> > Brenda?
>>
>>
>> --
>> ~~~ Le (Reformed) Critic! ~~~ A Registered Voter who Votes ~~~
>> [11] http://www.truthtree.com ~ climb the Truth Tree, reach enlightenment
>> The Bible's silence on homosexuality ~ [12] http://www.visionsofdaniel.com
>
>Do speak for Brenda
>LeClerc? She cant
>answer for herself?
>
>dapreacher
***I did say it before...you just refused to read it.
Brenda
Brenda G. Tataryn
> Re: THE NEW CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
>
> From: Ben Mitts <bmi...@dundee.net>
> Reply to: [1] bmi...@dundee.net
>>
>> ***easy. A Christian comes up to me and says "Jesus told me that we must
>> kill so and so because he is a witch." Sorry I don't say that as a
>> Christian so he does not speak for me.
>> Brenda
>
>With this foolish you prove
>nothing of Who Jesus Christ
>is and why He died on the
>Cross, even for you!
>
>dapreacher
**YOU don't prove anything either. Just that you can read a book.
Brenda
Brenda G. Tataryn
> Re: THE NEW CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
>
> From: Ben Mitts <bmi...@dundee.net>
> Reply to: [1] bmi...@dundee.net
*** Prove your brand of Christianity is the True one.
Brenda
>
>dapreachar
Brenda G. Tataryn
> Re: THE NEW CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
>
> From: Ben Mitts <bmi...@dundee.net>
> Reply to: [1] bmi...@dundee.net
>
>You referring to Worldly Christianity
>or to True Christianity which is found
>only by walking in Faith in Jesus Christ?
>
>dapreacher
*** "True" ??? true to you or true to them or true to us or true to Jesus?
Just saying over and over again..believe as I do or you are going to
hell...is ridiculous.
Everyone here believes they are on the right track.
Just spewing True...true...does not make you correct.
Matt 7:22-23
from your brand of Christianity most likely but it fits very well.
strange how no one see this.
Brenda
Brenda G. Tataryn
> Re: THE NEW CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
>
> From: Ben Mitts <bmi...@dundee.net>
> Reply to: [1] bmi...@dundee.net
>The Bible teaches that no matter
>how or why men or women practice
>Homosexuality they are an "Abom-
>ination unto the Lord God. There
>fore any who practice it must de-
>clare the Bible is wrong in order
>to live the way they choose. Dont
>feel to bad that you have to do
>this, every other non-believer has
>to do it in order to live the life
>they wish to live. Sorta like be-
>lieving that if one rewrites The
>Scriptures a wee bit God won't
>care!
>
>dapreacher
*** Your Bible , not mine. God does not care if you put a summer squash in
your anus as long as you love and treat others as you would have them
treat you.
Brenda
Brenda G. Tataryn
> Re: THE NEW CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
>
> Reply to: [1] "fervent"
> Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 13:54:52 -0700
>
>fervent has the floor:
>
>we all know who your father is. It is not Jesus, or The Father of =
>lights or anything like it. There is only one gospel, and you do not =
>have it in those books you say are your choice for discerning the way =
>
*** My earthly dad is a wonderful guy. My God is God period. Jesus is one
aspect of the Father as are others. I happen to love God and love Jesus.
Sorry you are very prejudiced and bigoted.*******
and the truth. I could have covered all the bases in the homosexual =
>life style, but for decency and brevity, I urged myself to hold short. =
>It is not like we are not adults and can know that the deep throat =
>technique is also practiced, along with several other innovations, I =
>mean aberrations of the lifestyle. Why do you personally defend it? =
*** Aberrations of the lifestyle? You know of homosexual lifestyles? you
know of sexual lifestyles ?????? Homosexuals are people of the same sex
who wish to have sex/fall in love/form partnerships with the same sex...
just like heteros do. I personally will defend anyone who is an innocent
human being as Jesus would. I defend all people who are spat upon as lower
then low because of personal prejudice. None of these people are harming
anyone. Aids has to do with safety and is a communicable disease like any
other. Placing Morality on it does nothing...but hurt human beings. I also
have very very many friends who are homosexual and these are some of my
dearest friends. Some of them have been together in a monogamous
relationship for over 20 years. Better than a lot of heterosexual
relationship some may think.**************
>More than a passing interest. More than a sympathiser? As I said =
>before, the ones who stand in agreement with this stuff do it to protect =
>their own conscience from searing. =20
*** bwahahhahaha...lets see if Brendie is a closet -lesbian..bwahahaha
how lame. The only hurt they have is from others who hate them for what
they are.
>And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, =
>apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those that oppose =
>themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the =
>acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of =
>the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will. II =
>Tim 2:24-26
>
**** IN meekness huh? yeah that explains a lot of Conservative rightwing
fundie gay bashing.
Brenda
>
Brenda G. Tataryn
> Re: THE NEW CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
>
> From: "fervent" <del...@attcanada.ca>
> Reply to: [1] "fervent"
>
>I wondered how long that would take to surface. Very discerning, but what
>is in a namesake? My middle name is Charles, but the potential king of
>England I am not. Your tactics are becoming so inane. It has already slid
>down the ladder to name calling.
**** Calling someone a Goddess is not name calling. It is a recognition
divinity inherent.
>
>I perceive that you are an enemy of the cross. At first you sounded not
>half bad, but a wolf is a wolf no matter how you dress him up.
>
***** No I am not an enemy of the cross. I love Jesus. Why would you say
that? Are you? A wolf is a wonderful teacher. Goes into the woods to bring
food back for its young. Calling me a wolf is also a recognition of Gods
divinity.******
>--
>And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt
>to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if
>God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the
>truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil,
>who are taken captive by him at his will. II Tim 2:24-26
>
***** Meekness again huh? hmmm. Like Jerry Falwell kind of meekness?
Jim Jones meekness?
Tammy and Jim Baker? Jimmy Swaggart meekness? The proponents of anti-gun
laws who are mostly conservative fundie types meekness?
The Crusaders who went into the middle east to kill others in meekness?
The inquisitors who killed thousands of men and women under the guise of
"evil witchery" meekness? The KKK meekness?
ah I see.
Got your number and it's 666.
Brenda
>"Brenda G. Tataryn" <wt...@victoria.tc.ca> wrote in message
>[8] news:398d...@news.victoria.tc.ca...
Le Critic!
>
> > I'm afraid your message does not have anything to do with our
> > discussion.
>
> Oh! but it does!
>
Nah. I think you have not been reading any of my messages. You see the
word "gay" and all the propaganda your church indoctrinates you with,
pops up in your mind.
--
~~~ Le (Reformed) Critic! ~~~ A Registered Voter who Votes! ~~~
The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay :
http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Heights/1734
Climb http://www.truthtree.com ~ where the Truth will set u free
Le Critic!
>
> "Le Critic!" wrote:
>
> > Whenever the word "prove" is mentioned in a debate about Christianity,
> > the thread dies.
>
> It should if one cant back
> up what one writes about
> Christianity! But then non
> believers dont have to follow
> the same rules they impose on
> Believers when involved in
> discussions
I have backed it up, but you don't read my messages anyhow.
Le Critic!
>
> Do speak for Brenda
> LeClerc? She cant
> answer for herself?
What is this, Jerry Springer Live?
Le Critic!
>
> Another one bites the blocked senders list. Sheesh since when did satan let
> his people come out in the daytime. Oh guess it must be because he knows he
> is on borrowed time. :-)
> Diana
>
I really do appreciate it when you bigots take the mask off and let
everyone see what you're about.
Thanks. :-)
Le Critic!
>
> I wondered how long that would take to surface. Very discerning, but what
> is in a namesake? My middle name is Charles, but the potential king of
> England I am not. Your tactics are becoming so inane. It has already slid
> down the ladder to name calling.
What, you do the same thing. Or is "wolf" not a name? How typical.
> I perceive that you are an enemy of the cross. At first you sounded not
> half bad, but a wolf is a wolf no matter how you dress him up.
I'm afraid your "cross" has many enemies, because you look for enemies.
Diana
list keeps getting fuller. :-) Love ya but ya gotta go to my blocked list.
Diana
--
To forgive is to set a prisoner free and
discover the prisoner was you.
"Le Critic!" <compas...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:398E35CE...@aol.com...
: Diana wrote:
: >
: > Another one bites the blocked senders list. Sheesh since when did satan
let
: > his people come out in the daytime. Oh guess it must be because he knows
he
: > is on borrowed time. :-)
: > Diana
: >
:
: I really do appreciate it when you bigots take the mask off and let
: everyone see what you're about.
: Thanks. :-)
:
: --
Le Critic!
>
> *** Love is wonderful and everyone has their own boundaries
> dependant on morality based on harming no one and other things.
The fundies won't understand. You used big words like "boundaries," and
they never bother to consult a dictionary. But what you say makes sense
to me.
> *** My God which is everyones God has given us
> joy and pleasure to delight in. NO one is talking about
> rape,incest,careless unsafe sex...etc. We are talking of
> mutual joy and ecstatic union with the God.****
The fundies always list homosexuality in with murder, rape etc. because
they are trying to conjure up negative connotations that no longer exist
with homosexuality.
> **** as long as the world has too many humans clogging her up
> there will always be homosexuality to cut down on our overgrowth of
> humans. Whether or not they still father/mother children there will be
> a cut down. ****
Yes I do think homosexuality serves a purpose, biologically.
> *** you seem to think that the Fundie interpreted Bible is the
> only way to go...still. We believe our faith is true. I have no
> want to defeat God and that is a laugh that anyone could think that
> they could.******************
The fundies keep trying.
> **** Fundie Bible stuff that has nothing to do with me.
Yes, Ben does not even bother reading what we write. He thinks he knows
all he needs to know about gays and about everything else. So, he goes
off and writes a bunch of stuff based on these little pamphlets he
read. And it doesn't make much sense at all.
> **** I have many gay friends who lead wonderful lives filled with Joy
> and Jesus and Mary and the Creator. The only ones who would dare to lift a
> hand to them are homophobes,closet -homosexuals with chips on their
> shoulders and Fundie Nazis.
Yes that is true. I had an elderly lady, a Baptist, over for breakfast
yesterday and we had a pleasant time. It's the Fundie Nazis that have a
problem... a psychological problem. The gays are out there, enjoying
themselves, living peacefully with others.
> *** Nope. God is within and around every being. We are all connected
> and all of God. Man cannot exist (IMO) without God.
And to think Diane (above) decided to filter you as a sender. I guess
she really can't stand hearing from other Christians, if they happen to
be gay.
--
~~~ Le (Reformed) Critic! ~~~ A Registered Voter who Votes ~~~
Ex-Fundamentalist Resource Center ~ http://www.losingmyreligion.com
http://www.truthtree.com ~ climb the Truth Tree, reach enlightenment
The Bible's silence on homosexuality ~ http://www.visionsofdaniel.com
Le Critic!
>
> >Do speak for Brenda
> >LeClerc? She cant
> >answer for herself?
> >
>
> ***I did say it before...you just refused to read it.
> Brenda
Ben does not read what we write.
Le Critic!
>
> Nope not bigot but I am a child of God. Like I said that blocked senders
> list keeps getting fuller. :-) Love ya but ya gotta go to my blocked list.
> Diana
>
I don't block sender for anybody because I'm not afraid of what they
have to say.
That is the strength that comes with being Honest with Myself.
fervent
> divinity inherent<.
> that? Are you? A wolf is a wonderful teacher. Goes into the woods to bring
> food back for its young. Calling me a wolf is also a recognition of Gods
> divinity.******<
> Jim Jones meekness?
> Tammy and Jim Baker? Jimmy Swaggart meekness? The proponents of anti-gun
> laws who are mostly conservative fundie types meekness?
> The Crusaders who went into the middle east to kill others in meekness?
> The inquisitors who killed thousands of men and women under the guise of
> "evil witchery" meekness? The KKK meekness?
> ah I see.
> Got your number and it's 666.
> Brenda
>
10. Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
> > Re: THE NEW CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
> >
> > From: "fervent" <del...@attcanada.ca>
> > Reply to: [1] "fervent"
> > Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 13:59:46 -0700
> >
> >is in a namesake? My middle name is Charles, but the potential king of
> >England I am not. Your tactics are becoming so inane. It has already slid
> >down the ladder to name calling.
>
> divinity inherent.
>
>
> >
> >half bad, but a wolf is a wolf no matter how you dress him up.
> >
>
Ben Mitts
>
> Ben Mitts wrote:
> >
> > > I'm afraid your message does not have anything to do with our
> > > discussion.
> >
> > Oh! but it does!
> >
> > You want a life where everything goes.
>
> Nah. I think you have not been reading any of my messages. You see the
> word "gay" and all the propaganda your church indoctrinates you with,
> pops up in your mind.
>
> ~~~ Le (Reformed) Critic! ~~~ A Registered Voter who Votes! ~~~
> The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay :
> http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Heights/1734
> Climb http://www.truthtree.com ~ where the Truth will set u free
Sorry! But dapreacher checks out
all references put forth by any-
one claiming The Bible "does not
say this or that" statements. You
basically want Homosexuality to
be accepted by Mainline Christians
plain and simple. My Church has
not "indoctrinated me in any way.
Nice cavil but it dont work that
way. Spent 5 years on the streets
as an Ordain Minister counseling
with all kinds of people including
Homosexuals. Never had one tell
me they were born Homosexual. All
of them said they were in to it by
choice.
dapreacher
Brenda G. Tataryn
> Re: THE NEW CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
>
>Sorry! But dapreacher checks out
>all references put forth by any-
>one claiming The Bible "does not
>say this or that" statements. You
>basically want Homosexuality to
>be accepted by Mainline Christians
>plain and simple. My Church has
>not "indoctrinated me in any way.
>Nice cavil but it dont work that
>way. Spent 5 years on the streets
>as an Ordain Minister counseling
>with all kinds of people including
>Homosexuals. Never had one tell
>me they were born Homosexual. All
>of them said they were in to it by
>choice.
>
>dapreacher
**** counseling a few teens on the streets who say that they
experimented in homosexuality does not make them homosexual.
Homosexuality is what you are born with. There are people who try it
on for size and there are those who are born that way.
If everyone was homosexual could you change your heterosexual (supposed)
ways?
A homosexual person trying to become a heterosexual will only feel lost
in life. They will ape someone else's idea of what is right and eventually
hurt more persons by possibly cheating on that wife they married to appear
"so-called normal" with another man. Try to learn tolerance. Try to learn
love and acceptance of something that harms no one.
Brenda
Brenda G. Tataryn
> Re: THE NEW CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
>
>I know that there is very little sense in railing against deception, =
>vis-a-vis the topic of homosexuality. I am sure that just as surely as =
>there are homosexuals branding me a right-wing theocratic sleazebag =
>fundamentalist, there are also many believers diving for their bibles to =
>pray for me concerning what I have to say. I would expect to receive =
>flack over this both in the forum and privately from both sides. It =
>seems that there is a large offensive going on right now concerning this =
>issue. I get the papers from Cincinatti and Atlanta, and there have been =
>several prominent articles concerning how the "church" - notice, in =
>parenthesis - should regard homosexuality. This may sound odd, but I =
>almost feel as if I am standing there watching God say "How are you =
>going to choose?" to the social church. Sides are being drawn over this =
>issue. The only thing that I can say is that it should not become a =
>personal issue, where sensibilities and convictions become inflamed. It =
>is a whole lot less aggravating to simply say "God says", and leave the =
>matter at that. You can=B4t get any more final than that, no matter how =
>those who are deceived concerning it may argue or justify their =
>position. You take the position, and the Holy Spirit will provide the =
>conviction if it is to be heard or sensed.=20
**** agreed...always remembering that their are many faiths and many
bibles that people all believe in and that all people believe are true.
If you wish to talk of your faith ...fine but telling others to live their
lives based on your brand of faith is mostly a waste of yours/their
time. Faith is a very personal thing and is best to leave your faiths for
anyone to pick up and peruse and if they wish to persue it let them come
to you. Shoving a faith down someones mouth for them to grasp out of fear
of hell fire is not a true belief...it is superficial.
Come to God when you are ready out of deep love and respect.
>
>>**** Calling someone a Goddess is not name calling. It is a recognition
>> divinity inherent<.
>
>It is implied and you know it.
>
*** Oh I know that implication...I like to have fun as much as anyone.
>>***** No I am not an enemy of the cross. I love Jesus. Why would you =
>say
>> that? Are you? A wolf is a wonderful teacher. Goes into the woods to =
>bring
>> food back for its young. Calling me a wolf is also a recognition of =
>Gods
>> divinity.******<
>
>You may have mental assent about Jesus, but any Spirit led believer =
>would have discernment about these issues. They would love the sinner =
>and hate the sin. That is what I do. I don't hate homosexuals. Just =
>because a Christian is set to obey Christ and hate the sin, as any other =
>sin, does not make him a hater of homosexuals.
***** if you hate the sin...then work on getting rid of the sin itself.
Forcing a homosexual to live a lie will only end up in hurting more human
beings through forced fake marriages,children being born to be later left
by a man who cannot stop his true nature from coming to the fore front.
>
> A wolf in biblical terms is a FALSE teacher and you know it.
>
*** ofcourse I know this. I do have a sense of humour however you may take
it and choose to not pay attention to negativities coming my way
sometimes. The man called me a false teacher...I personally thought it
rude. I am as honest as a person can get. Sometimes I play with peoples
own prejudices because sometimes this world is just tooo ridiculous.
>
>>***** Meekness again huh? hmmm. Like Jerry Falwell kind of meekness?
>> Jim Jones meekness?
>> Tammy and Jim Baker? Jimmy Swaggart meekness? The proponents of =
>anti-gun
>> laws who are mostly conservative fundie types meekness?
>> The Crusaders who went into the middle east to kill others in =
>meekness?
>> The inquisitors who killed thousands of men and women under the guise =
>of
>> "evil witchery" meekness? The KKK meekness?
>> ah I see.
>> Got your number and it's 666.
>> Brenda
>>=20
>
>Meekness is not weakness. In biblical terms meekness is power under =
>control. you know the chord you strike by condemning me under the =
>satanic 666, as that is the most hated number in my life. I am not a =
**** oh yes... but how do we know if this number does not fit you when you
support a faith which has harmed many beings and even calls for the
killing of some of different faiths? By faith I mean those that consider
the bible word for word from the mouth of Jesus. I am a Christian in that
I believe Jesus is the perfected being who came to teach truth and love
and how we should live...however his words got skewed by the Paulists and
others and one has to really search to glean the truth amidst the false
from this book of books now. By the way, why 666? what does this mean ???
Jesus, according to many of the bible inerrantists ,would say that he
would be against numerology yet we have this within Many fundie and
non-fundies minds as significant! it adds up to 9 in numerology ...it
could have Kabbalistic connections..I must study this some time.
>subscriber to that loser's ideology. There is nothing wrong with Jerry =
>Falwell save it be he is a Baptist Fundy as you call it Fundamentalism =
>is not wrong. I tell you of a truth, Jesus is the ultimate "fundy" His =
**** Jerry Falwell is a paranoid,homophobic,hater of a man. More
politician than Christian. Let's face it..he called "Tinky-Winky"
a gay character used to try and get children to become approving of Gay
lifestyles...that kind of smacks of ridiculous. Calling Jesus Fundamental
is fine with me...however his fundamentalism got changed to Paulian
Fundamentalism within the pages of the Bible.
>grace and blood transcends anything you ask forgiveness for, but He did =
>say "you shall die in your sins" to those who will not receive what the =
>Lord has offered by way of the salvation plan. You place these other =
>"spiritual cross dressers" like Jim Jones in the same bedroom with true =
>Christianity. They are worlds apart and you know it. Jim Baker is a =
>reformed man who took a fall and did get led into wrong paths by the =
>world the flesh and the devil, but he has made restitution to society, I =
>have seen him on Larry King, and he is a credible and humble servant =
**** yet the same Brand of Christianity that lead him to do and live as
you and I have seen is what he is attracted to. A brand of thought
frought with prejudices,bigotry,misogyny,intolerance and fear. He may be a
better man now...I could only hope so.
>once more. The damage that fiasco caused will not be lived down in this =
>lifetime, as the evil often wins the day in the short term. As I read =
>below to cover your points, I see the same rhetoric and retorts about =
>what aledgedly christian followers have done in the name of the Lord or =
>whatever. There was a dark age and the catholic church did it's share =
>of persecution too. I was not there so do not blame me or my =
>generation. As I take a stand against open sin, I simply preach the =
>uncompromised word. =20
**** Catholic church follows the same skewed outlook...why would you
separate them from your brand? I do not blame you or your generation..I
am righteously angered by people who hurt loving innocent people and
disrespect others faiths . Saying you do it out of love is incredible
condescending to something so personal as a faith. Saying anyone not of
Jesus "in the Bible" is going to go to Hell is incredibly bigoted and
incredibly hurtful and false. If you believe this...place your bibles out
for others to pick up ...that is all. Do not shove your fear based faith
down others throughts.Let a person come to God out of their own
hearts..not fear. I am amazed at the amount of people who say they are
doing this out of love yet show the most unloving characters to others who
are different. It smacks more of Politics and less of God.
>
>I Cor:6: 9. Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the =
>kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor =
>adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
> 10. Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor =
>extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
>
*****this is false to me and my belief in what Jesus truly said. This is a
good indication of a falsehood thrown into the Bible. I do Not beleive
that Jesus said this at all. Quoting it to me does nothing but make me
shake my head at such slander and libel.
>The respected amplified bible defines the abusers of themselves with =
>mankind as homosexuals. =20
*** Not respected Bible to me or millions of others.
>
>I know you will refute this true teaching, casting down every high =
>thought, working wonderously with great swelling words, twisting the =
>gospel with innuendo and cunningly devised fables to support your cause. =
> I will make an end to this thread here and will regard with interest =
>what you flame next, but without commentary. I have done all I am =
>required to do. (Stand against homosexuality as a sin, and speak the =
>word into the situation.) I have no open animosity against homosexuals, =
>as I have said above. I KNOW Jesus hates all sexual sin, ( beyond =
>homosexuality, and yes He does care what you insert in your anus.) as it =
>comes as an abomination of His covenant of marriage to the bride of =
>Christ. =20
>
>
**** and ofcourse I would disagree that Jesus is not into what a person
sticks in his anus. This does nothing to the soul or spirit. Creates a
full feeling in the rectum of men by pushing on their prostate glands and
makes them happy for a few minutes but Jesus is really not that ridiculous
as you state to be that concerned.
In the name of Jesus,Mary and God.
Lovingly yours Brenda
Erica Buchanan
>
> Diana wrote:
> >
> > Nope not bigot but I am a child of God. Like I said that blocked senders
> > list keeps getting fuller. :-) Love ya but ya gotta go to my blocked list.
> > Diana
> >
>
> I don't block sender for anybody because I'm not afraid of what they
> have to say.
> That is the strength that comes with being Honest with Myself.
>
People block sender when they know sender is telling God's Honest
Truth!
:) :) :)
More power to you, Le Critic!
Erica Buchanan
>
> "Le Critic!" wrote:
> >
> > Ben Mitts wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'm afraid your message does not have anything to do with our
> > > > discussion.
> > >
> > > Oh! but it does!
> > >
> > > You want a life where everything goes.
> >
> > Nah. I think you have not been reading any of my messages. You see the
> > word "gay" and all the propaganda your church indoctrinates you with,
> > pops up in your mind.
> >
> > --
> > ~~~ Le (Reformed) Critic! ~~~ A Registered Voter who Votes! ~~~
> > The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay :
> > http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Heights/1734
> > Climb http://www.truthtree.com ~ where the Truth will set u free
>
> all references put forth by any-
> one claiming The Bible "does not
> say this or that" statements.
You're such a BORE! Ho-hum
If you were a REAL MAN you wouldn't go around picking on gays
Obviously you are not comfortable in your OWN sexuality!
"duh" preacher!
Don Koenig
getting a little cluttered.
Don
"Erica Buchanan" <Bucha...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:398F3FED...@bellsouth.net...
Ben Mitts
"You're such a BORE! Ho-hum
Then why waste time reading or
commenting on what I write.
Since you responded you cant
be too bored! Trolling maybe
but bored! Nah!
"If you were a REAL MAN you wouldn't go around picking on gays
Obviously you are not comfortable in your OWN sexuality!
"duh" preacher!"
dapreacher never picks on anyone!
dapreacher tries to show people
what has caused their life to be
used by Satan. Dapreacher tries
to help people see The Light In
Jesus Christ then gets out of the
way so God can change them. That's
not picking on anyone.
My own sexuality?....Hmmmm!, yeah
right. Dont have to deconstruct
Scripture in order to live in a
perverted life separated from God!
Real men become Born Again in The
Blood of Jesus Christ living in
Faith that they are Saved unto
Eternity, Real women too! Dream
on Mam!
dapreacher
Ben Mitts
> **** counseling a few teens on the streets who say that they
> experimented in homosexuality does not make them homosexual.
> Homosexuality is what you are born with. There are people who try it
> on for size and there are those who are born that way.
> If everyone was homosexual could you change your heterosexual (supposed)
> ways?
> A homosexual person trying to become a heterosexual will only feel lost
> in life. They will ape someone else's idea of what is right and eventually
> hurt more persons by possibly cheating on that wife they married to appear
> "so-called normal" with another man. Try to learn tolerance. Try to learn
> love and acceptance of something that harms no one.
> Brenda
Read what I write! Never said I counseled
with only teens. Actually never discussed
much on Homosexuality with any teens.
Actually, no one is "born homosexuals" A
Doctor friend of mine who is Neuro Psych-
iatrist says even these people dont become
Homo's until they grow up, and for whatever
reason they can come up with, decide to be
one. He said it must be learned. Big
Difference from what you claim. Homosexual-
ism is a learned condition accepted by the
practitioner- other wise Scripture would not
be against it. Sorry you lose!
Got a question for you?
How do you explain people who practice it
just so they can live. And once given an
opportunity at getting a job where they can
support themselves properly walk away from
Homosexuality- never to return to it again.
Sorry! You lose again! No one is born as a
Homo. Maybe mixed up genes but even then
the choice is theirs, as to whether they
want to be Gay!
Ben Mitts
"A homosexual person trying to become a
heterosexual will only feel lost in life."
Granted, But given the proper Medical
and Christian counseling the will have
a better chance at making iy in a hetero-
sexual world and live just as comfortable
as any one else.
________________________________________________
"They will ape someone else's idea of what
is right and eventually hurt more persons
by possibly cheating on that wife they
married to appear "so-called normal" with
another man.
So you admit that Homosexuality is a sham
Why would they marry in the first place?
Sorry , bad cavil!
________________________________________________
"Try to learn tolerance. Try to learn love
and acceptance of something that harms no
one.
dapreacher accepts all people. Only be-
cause God created them. dapreacher will
never accept their way of life outside
out of Biblical Teaching. You say it harms
no one! Then explain why NAMBLA is trying
do what they think they should have acc-
sess to. How do you explain all the Kids
who are raped sexually and mutilated and
killed by Homosexuals. Explain why one has
to live in secrecy so their husbands or
wives wont find out and end their sham life
Some life! No wonder God forbids it in The
Bible!
dapreacher
Ben Mitts
Ben Mitts
Al Fogelman
"A homosexual person trying to become a
heterosexual will only feel lost in life."
A lie
"Granted, But given the proper Medical
and Christian counseling, they will have
a better chance at making it, in a
heterosexual world, and live just as comfortable
as any one else."
True, as so very, very many, many people who have given up bad habits
can wittiness. Real Christian counseling will demonstrate this to any
one person who has the desire for a better life. Search for and join
one of the christian groups that have overcome, for our God is able.
With love, al.
>________
Brenda G. Tataryn
> Re: THE NEW CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
>
>"Brenda G. Tataryn" wrote:
>
>> **** counseling a few teens on the streets who say that they
>> experimented in homosexuality does not make them homosexual.
>> Homosexuality is what you are born with. There are people who try it
>> on for size and there are those who are born that way.
>> If everyone was homosexual could you change your heterosexual (supposed)
>> ways?
>> hurt more persons by possibly cheating on that wife they married to appear
>> love and acceptance of something that harms no one.
>
>Read what I write! Never said I counseled
>with only teens. Actually never discussed
>much on Homosexuality with any teens.
**** granted. You also said you would not respond to this
and you did.
>
>Actually, no one is "born homosexuals" A
>Doctor friend of mine who is Neuro Psych-
>iatrist says even these people dont become
>Homo's until they grow up, and for whatever
>reason they can come up with, decide to be
>one. He said it must be learned. Big
>Difference from what you claim. Homosexual-
>ism is a learned condition accepted by the
>practitioner- other wise Scripture would not
>be against it. Sorry you lose!
>
*** Your friend is very mistaken. People know of
their sexuality around the age of three and are not
totally confirmed till around the onset of puberty..usually
the feelings are denied for a time because of society and its
negative reactions. Most parents of homosexuals are heterosexual
and do nothing to teach their children to be homosexual and the
vast amount of homosexuals do not encounter other avowed homosexuals
until in their teens when they already realize what they are.
Also many teens who are driven to suicide by what society does to them
in return for their own adherance to their sexuality would not be
killing themselves if they could just "change" their sexuality.
Could you change from heterosexual (if you are indeed this) to
homosexual just like that?
>Got a question for you?
>
>How do you explain people who practice it
>just so they can live. And once given an
>opportunity at getting a job where they can
>support themselves properly walk away from
>Homosexuality- never to return to it again.
*** there are those...and those are not
homosexuals if they give it up. These are people who are trying to
survive on the streets and will do just about anything for a warm bed
and money for food or drugs. Homosexuals are homosexual for the rest
their lives..it is the way they are wired and nothing is wrong with it.
>
>Sorry! You lose again! No one is born as a
>Homo. Maybe mixed up genes but even then
>the choice is theirs, as to whether they
>want to be Gay!
*** afraid not. No one would choose a lifestyle that
has homophobic people threatening them with beatings, has
Fundamentalists spitting in their faces spewing hatred under the guise
of just "hating the sin" and no one would kill themselves
because of their homosexuality if they could just stop.
Be open and learn.
Brenda
Brenda G. Tataryn
> Re: THE NEW CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
>
> From: Ben Mitts <bmi...@dundee.net>
> Reply to: [1] bmi...@dundee.net
> Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 14:59:14 GMT
>
>"Brenda G. Tataryn" wrote:
>
>
>"A homosexual person trying to become a
>heterosexual will only feel lost in life."
>
>and Christian counseling the will have
>a better chance at making iy in a hetero-
>sexual world and live just as comfortable
>as any one else.
***no that will only cause more problems for others.
>"They will ape someone else's idea of what
>is right and eventually hurt more persons
>by possibly cheating on that wife they
>married to appear "so-called normal" with
>another man.
>
>So you admit that Homosexuality is a sham
>Why would they marry in the first place?
>Sorry , bad cavil!
*** No, you are not listening at all. If the rest of society
forces a man to be something he is not through mental and emotionally
abusing him into believing he is sick or evil he will try to appease
these people only to have his true nature come out later on in life.
I have seen it happen over and over and many children and women get hurt.
>"Try to learn tolerance. Try to learn love
>and acceptance of something that harms no
>one.
>
>dapreacher accepts all people. Only be-
>cause God created them. dapreacher will
>never accept their way of life outside
>out of Biblical Teaching. You say it harms
>no one! Then explain why NAMBLA is trying
>do what they think they should have acc-
>sess to. How do you explain all the Kids
>who are raped sexually and mutilated and
>killed by Homosexuals. Explain why one has
>to live in secrecy so their husbands or
>wives wont find out and end their sham life
>Some life! No wonder God forbids it in The
>Bible!
dap
**** Kids who are raped by adults are raped by pedophiles
some of which are homosexual and the majority who are heterosexuals.
The Crimes of child molestation have nothing to do with
a persons own personal sexuality.
ONe does not have to live in secrecy if the world practises love and
kindness and toleration. People only do this to sometimes to keep from
being beaten by neo nazis and fundamentalists and bigots. People only will
do this because others like yourself tell them they are practising evil
and they may not have the support of others to be themselves, living and
loving in freedom and dignity.
Your post is fraught with bigotry dap..
learn to love.
Learn.
Brenda
Brenda G. Tataryn
> Re: THE NEW CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
>
> Reply to: [1] Al Fogelman
> Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 15:32:09 GMT
>
>
>"A homosexual person trying to become a
>heterosexual will only feel lost in life."
>
truth dearie I have seen it happen time and time again.
>
>"Granted, But given the proper Medical
>and Christian counseling, they will have
>a better chance at making it, in a
>heterosexual world, and live just as comfortable
>as any one else."
>
>True, as so very, very many, many people who have given up bad habits
>can wittiness. Real Christian counseling will demonstrate this to any
>one person who has the desire for a better life. Search for and join
>one of the christian groups that have overcome, for our God is able.
>
>With love, al.
***People still harass other races for being what they are.
Should we counsel black people on how to be more white?
Your way will only result in either of two things...a human never having
sex again which will tear them away from beauty and joy or they will marry
and have children only to rip the family asunder when their true ways come
out. Do something radical...actually meet a variety of homosexual people.
Not just the ones that are sitting with a mask of heterosexuality on them
because they do not want to get beaten up! Talk to all kinds.
Learn something outside your narrow small little fundie world.
Brenda
semper...@my-deja.com
wt...@victoria.tc.ca (Brenda G. Tataryn) wrote:
SNIP
> ***People still harass other races for being what they are.
> Should we counsel black people on how to be more white?
For all our falts Euro-Americans have a very successful culture. One
that builds wealth better than any other culture on the planet. So
successful is our culture at doing this, that other cultures have
adopted many of our cultural values in order to compete with us. This
has proven mutually advantageous. So, yes, it would be good if
Afro-Americans were taught how to be more successful in a Euro-American
culture. It could only help them to acheive economic equality, as well
as sociol equality. Green is the color of equality.
> Your way will only result in either of two things...a human never
having
> sex again which will tear them away from beauty and joy or they will
marry
> and have children only to rip the family asunder when their true ways
come
> out. Do something radical...actually meet a variety of homosexual
people.
> Not just the ones that are sitting with a mask of heterosexuality on
them
> because they do not want to get beaten up! Talk to all kinds.
> Learn something outside your narrow small little fundie world.
> Brenda
>
The fact is that Homosexuality can not be equated to Physical human
differences. In fact unless your way out on the edge and really living
the steriotypical queer lifestyle, no one knows your "Gay" unless you
tell them. So, what does it really mean to be gay? Well, basically
what it means is that the act of sex is the center of your identity. It
is not love, but lust that drives your mating decissions. It equates
the person to their genitalia, so that their crotch becomes their
identity. And before you tell me about all the loving committed "Gay"
couples in the world, the undeniable fact is that MOST homosexuals have
multiple partners, don't end up with life partners (or whatever the heck
you want to call them), and aren't really very gay at all with one of
the highest suicide rates in the country. If they would truly be honest
with themselves they would realize that part of the alure of being gay
(if there is such a thing) is that among their own kind the chances of
rejection are low (while their young), and their choice of sexual
behavior stems from their desire to attain orgasm without having to
compete very hard for partners. ( alternately, being a gay prostitute is
a way to feed yourself if you ran away from home as a young man before
you were old enough to hold a job.)
Now don't misunderstand me. Does lust push heterosexual couples
together? You bet it does. It's what we like to call chemistry. The
difference is that heterosexual relationships hold the **PROMISE**
whether realized or not of long lasting relationships, with children as
part of the "NATURAL" escalation of events.
Big difference.
Semperfinite
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Brenda G. Tataryn
> Re: THE NEW CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
>
> Reply to: [1] semper...@my-deja.com
> Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 21:56:40 GMT
> Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy.
> wt...@victoria.tc.ca (Brenda G. Tataryn) wrote:
>SNIP
>
>> ***People still harass other races for being what they are.
>> Should we counsel black people on how to be more white?
>
>For all our falts Euro-Americans have a very successful culture. One
>that builds wealth better than any other culture on the planet. So
>successful is our culture at doing this, that other cultures have
>adopted many of our cultural values in order to compete with us. This
>has proven mutually advantageous. So, yes, it would be good if
>Afro-Americans were taught how to be more successful in a Euro-American
>culture. It could only help them to acheive economic equality, as well
>as sociol equality. Green is the color of equality.
>
*** it all depends upon what you define as successful. We have caused mass
deforestations,pollutions of many,many areas...we have propped up
dictators and also held to a class distinction for the longest time and
asked for mass death of cultures in an attempt to paint all others with
the same brush. Many people living in Africa had good lives before
slavery brought them over to "civilize them". Granted nomadic tribal wars
and such happenned and continue to happen but the whites in America did
not offer them anything better to say the least. So that is rather a
relative thing. ...as are most things. Green being a colour of equality is
a rather sad statement on your society..it says that poorer folk of all
colours are less and should thought of as less.
******
>
>> Your way will only result in either of two things...a human never
>having
>> sex again which will tear them away from beauty and joy or they will
>marry
>> and have children only to rip the family asunder when their true ways
>come
>> out. Do something radical...actually meet a variety of homosexual
>people.
>> Not just the ones that are sitting with a mask of heterosexuality on
>them
>> because they do not want to get beaten up! Talk to all kinds.
>> Learn something outside your narrow small little fundie world.
>> Brenda
>>
>
>The fact is that Homosexuality can not be equated to Physical human
>differences. In fact unless your way out on the edge and really living
>the steriotypical queer lifestyle, no one knows your "Gay" unless you
>tell them. So, what does it really mean to be gay? Well, basically
>what it means is that the act of sex is the center of your identity. It
>is not love, but lust that drives your mating decissions. It equates
*** don't agree. Gay means not only sexuality but being able to be free
to hug,touch,kiss live with someone of your own sex and not to be treated
as monsters. It has as much love and lust as any other gender grouping.
****
>the person to their genitalia, so that their crotch becomes their
>identity. And before you tell me about all the loving committed "Gay"
>couples in the world, the undeniable fact is that MOST homosexuals have
>multiple partners, don't end up with life partners (or whatever the heck
>you want to call them), and aren't really very gay at all with one of
*** a lot of Homosexuals have multiple partners as do a lot of
heterosexual people do. Many end up with life partners...I know of many.
I also know of many heterosexuals that have a lot of divorces and cheat on
one another.********
>the highest suicide rates in the country. If they would truly be honest
>with themselves they would realize that part of the alure of being gay
>(if there is such a thing) is that among their own kind the chances of
>rejection are low (while their young), and their choice of sexual
>behavior stems from their desire to attain orgasm without having to
**** suicide is attributed to attitudes such as yours that paint a
morality on homosexuality and thus make homosexual people feel unloved and
alienated from the rest of society. I know of a lot of women who are
lesbians that do not sleep with any Pam,Jane or Mary
that comes along...perhaps you are talking of a purely "Male" aspect to
want to have sex as a sport quite often. Homo or Hetero has nothing to do
with it...I have seen the same behaviour in all males.*******
>compete very hard for partners. ( alternately, being a gay prostitute is
>a way to feed yourself if you ran away from home as a young man before
>you were old enough to hold a job.)
>
>Now don't misunderstand me. Does lust push heterosexual couples
>together? You bet it does. It's what we like to call chemistry. The
>difference is that heterosexual relationships hold the **PROMISE**
>whether realized or not of long lasting relationships, with children as
>part of the "NATURAL" escalation of events.
>
******* nothing wrong with lust if coupled with using your brain...
I know of many heterosexual couples who do not want children and do not
have them. Promise has nothing to do with hetero or homosexuality.
>Big difference.
>
>Semperfinite
**** Brenda
semper...@my-deja.com
No9! That is not what I am saying at all. You need to shuck your
liberal, socialist, public school mis-education on this point and see
the forest with the trees. The undeniable fact is that there are some
cultures which ARE SUPERIOR to others. Now I realize this is a big
shock to those of you who have accepted the politically correct pablumb
of multiculturalism. None the less, in America the poorest of our poor
are richer by far than many elsware in the world. We are better
stewards of the land than any Iron Curtain country ever was, and when
you measure our polution against our productivity we are amongst the
least poluting countries in the world. Our racial problems have more to
do with cultural differences than skin color, as more and more
minorities can attest to as they accumulate wealth and become staunch
social and political conservatives.
You may react in haste to the idea that judging people on their ability
is a poor measure of a culture, but this characteristic of our society
has proven time and again to be the core of an engine that provides the
most, and best to the greatest number of people.
This must be how pro-gay bean counters come up with the figure that 10%
of our population is gay. I must be gay when I hug my son, or pat a
male co-worker on the back, or make any other kind of physical
contact...right? I don't think so.
> as monsters. It has as much love and lust as any other gender
grouping.
> ****
I'm sure you'd love to think so, but the practice is deviate, and no
matter how you try to color it to the contrarybeing gay means that you
are defining yourself first and formost by your sexual preference, a
preference which has no higher purpose than gratification, pure and
simple.
>
> >the person to their genitalia, so that their crotch becomes their
> >identity. And before you tell me about all the loving committed
"Gay"
> >couples in the world, the undeniable fact is that MOST homosexuals
have
> >multiple partners, don't end up with life partners (or whatever the
heck
> >you want to call them), and aren't really very gay at all with one of
>
> *** a lot of Homosexuals have multiple partners as do a lot of
> heterosexual people do. Many end up with life partners...I know of
many.
> I also know of many heterosexuals that have a lot of divorces and
cheat on
> one another.********
Oh, yes, and a lot of dogs have fleas so we shouldn't condemn the flea.
>
> >the highest suicide rates in the country. If they would truly be
honest
> >with themselves they would realize that part of the alure of being
gay
> >(if there is such a thing) is that among their own kind the chances
of
> >rejection are low (while their young), and their choice of sexual
> >behavior stems from their desire to attain orgasm without having to
>
> **** suicide is attributed to attitudes such as yours that paint a
> morality on homosexuality and thus make homosexual people feel unloved
and
> alienated from the rest of society. I know of a lot of women who are
> lesbians that do not sleep with any Pam,Jane or Mary
> that comes along...perhaps you are talking of a purely "Male" aspect
to
> want to have sex as a sport quite often. Homo or Hetero has nothing to
do
> with it...I have seen the same behaviour in all males.*******
Precisely, and it is this behavior which I condemn. However, if a
promiscuous heterosexual male impregnates a woman there is a chance
(slim as it may be) that they will marry and raise a family. The same
can not be said for the gay community. Therefore, on what grounds can
they possibly expect to gain the same acceptance in society when their
copulation is more akin to prostitution than marriage? We know we can
build civilization, and culture and society on heterosexual marriage,
but there is no example of a successful homosexual culture,
civilization, society existing except as a parasite to a normal
heterosexual culture. In addition, we know (from human history) that
culture flourishes best when humans are pursuaded through social mores
and peer pressure to curb and control their animalistic desires in favor
of more lofty goals which serve the greater community. If the core of
your existance is getting laid (Hetero or Homo) then you really haven't
much energy for other things have you? Therefore, prostitution,
homosexuality, and all forms of deviate sexual behavior should not be
championed in a healthy society.
>
> >compete very hard for partners. ( alternately, being a gay prostitute
is
> >a way to feed yourself if you ran away from home as a young man
before
> >you were old enough to hold a job.)
> >
> >Now don't misunderstand me. Does lust push heterosexual couples
> >together? You bet it does. It's what we like to call chemistry.
The
> >difference is that heterosexual relationships hold the **PROMISE**
> >whether realized or not of long lasting relationships, with children
as
> >part of the "NATURAL" escalation of events.
> >
> ******* nothing wrong with lust if coupled with using your brain...
> I know of many heterosexual couples who do not want children and do
not
> have them. Promise has nothing to do with hetero or homosexuality.
>
No you are wrong again. As HOMOs continue to push for legal married
status under the law, they overlook the reason why civilizations and the
governments they form have traditionally granted married couples a
special legal status in the community. It is because the promise of
children IS the FUTURE of any civilization. In exchange for that
promise (whether realized or not) many cultures grant married couples
various legal and social standings and privledges. What does
homosexuality have to offer?
John...@hotmail.com
> No9! That is not what I am saying at all. You need to shuck your
> liberal, socialist, public school mis-education on this point and see
> the forest with the trees.
Agreed, any philosopy that begins with all men
are created equal, is flawed with an obviously
not true premise.
In fact, the averaged homosexual, is better educated,
makes more money (the only honest independent judge of
sucess), and has a higher standard of living then
most straight people.
> This must be how pro-gay bean counters come up with
> the figure that 10% of our population is gay.
No, 5-10% is the number arrived at with three sigma
standard deviation, from numerous surveys based on the
scientific method and peer review.
> I'm sure you'd love to think so, but the practice is deviate, and no
> matter how you try to color it to the contrary being gay means that
> you are defining yourself first and formost by your sexual
> preference,
Bull, you can be a republican, a asian, a baptist, a
yankees fan, a blind person, an american indian, a
jewish person, a south paw....all of which you are
protected from discrimination by law, however if
you happen to be gay you are not.
> preference which has no higher purpose than gratification, pure and
> simple.
Gee, how about falling in love, and sharing you life with
someone. If that is only gratification pure and simple
I would not deny it to anyone, but you would.
> Oh, yes, and a lot of dogs have fleas so we shouldn't
> condemn the flea.
No, but avoid pointing out the splinter, while not noticing
your log.....Are you infavor of legalizing descrimination
against people who get divorced and remarried, after all
they are adulters and a amonimation before the Lord.
>
> Precisely, and it is this behavior which I condemn. However, if a
> promiscuous heterosexual male impregnates a woman there is a chance
> (slim as it may be) that they will marry and raise a family. The same
> can not be said for the gay community.
No but a loving, monogomous, homosexual couple, can, and do
raise children to become wonderful adults. Happens all the
time even though you may not like it.
> Therefore, on what grounds can
> they possibly expect to gain the same acceptance
> in society when their copulation is more akin to
> prostitution than marriage?
So a man or a woman born steril should not be able to
marry? Please it is good for society to acknowlege as
good a monogomous life long commitment of two men, it
is bad for society to try to destroy a loving couple.
If you can't see that, you are blinded by irrational
bigotry.
> We know we can
> build civilization, and culture and society on heterosexual marriage,
> but there is no example of a successful homosexual culture,
> civilization, society existing except as a parasite to a normal
> heterosexual culture.
Ah, yea, sure there is, all throughout nature, their are
homosexual dolphins, apes, and insects, all who play a part
in thier society, and yes it is perfectly valid to look
for insite into the human condition by studying nature, because
we are part of nature. I particularly like two Gay vulcers in
the Isrial national Jew, that are a life long monogomous couple
and are now raising their third adopted, chick, the first two
turned out to be perfectly heterosexual birds.
> In addition, we know (from human history) that
> culture flourishes best when humans are pursuaded through social mores
> and peer pressure to curb and control their animalistic desires in
> favor of more lofty goals which serve the greater community.
Yea, I think hitler said that.
> If the core of
> your existance is getting laid (Hetero or Homo) then you really
> haven't much energy for other things have you?
Hypocrite, you argue out one side of you mouth for not
acknowleging and helping to destroy monogomous homosexual
couples, and then want to blame them for not existing.
semper...@my-deja.com
John...@Hotmail.Com wrote:
>
> > No! That is not what I am saying at all. You need to shuck your
> > liberal, socialist, public school mis-education on this point and
see
> > the forest with the trees.
>
> are created equal, is flawed with an obviously
> not true premise.
>
Wrong again, dipwad. All men are created equal under the law. That is
the principle, the ideal, the promise of the Constitution.
> In fact, the averaged homosexual, is better educated,
> makes more money (the only honest independent judge of
> sucess), and has a higher standard of living then
> most straight people.
What's this..a little penis waiving?
>
> > This must be how pro-gay bean counters come up with
> > the figure that 10% of our population is gay.
>
> No, 5-10% is the number arrived at with three sigma
> standard deviation, from numerous surveys based on the
> scientific method and peer review.
Where DO youget your information?
>
> > I'm sure you'd love to think so, but the practice is deviate, and no
> > matter how you try to color it to the contrary being gay means that
> > you are defining yourself first and formost by your sexual
> > preference,
>
> Bull, you can be a republican, a asian, a baptist, a
> yankees fan, a blind person, an american indian, a
> jewish person, a south paw....all of which you are
> protected from discrimination by law, however if
> you happen to be gay you are not.
>
> > preference which has no higher purpose than gratification, pure and
> > simple.
>
> Gee, how about falling in love, and sharing you life with
> someone. If that is only gratification pure and simple
> I would not deny it to anyone, but you would.
>
SNIP
Hey...let's get this straight. (sorry you probably don't care for that
word.)
If you are a homosexual, you have the right to stick your ***** wherever
you want. The Constitution already guarentees that. However, like
anything else in the world what we chose to do...how we dress,...how we
talk,...who we identify with...all these behaviors and more can and do
have consequences. You can not expect people to throw off their own
culture just to please you. You can not demand that someone else be
forced to surrender their freedom in order that you can indulge in the
sexual preference of your choice. This is what the gay movement is all
about. I don't deny that there are very nice people in the world who are
also gay. I have a couple right down the street and I harbor no
injurious thoughts towards them, just so long as they realize that they
are not part of the mainstream culture. If they want to be
lifepartners, O.K. by me, just don't ry to tell me their married.
You know this reminds me of one of my favorite old sayings. "Don't piss
on my back and tell me it's raining." There is no credible scientific
evidence that what queers are doing is anything more than exercising a
preference for a partner of the same sex. We're not talking about a
handycap, or a genetic trait here. This is cultural. And just as I
will stand against the Crypts and Bloods, or the KKK, or the Panthers,
or socialists/communists or anyone else that threatens my culture, I
will stand against advancing the gay agenda. It's as simple as that.
They can do as they please, but when they try to change my culture...the
culture of the United States of America...that's where I draw the line.
As far as I'm concerned being gay is not the same as being straight.
Period!
My culture tells me that prostitution is wrong, bestiality is wrong,
necrophelia is wrong, pedophilia is wrong and homosexuality is wrong.
They are deviate sexual preferences and they insult my cultural sense of
morality.
Brenda G. Tataryn
> Re: THE NEW CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
>
> From: semper...@my-deja.com
> Reply to: [1] semper...@my-deja.com
>
>In article [10] <8n1f97$unc$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
>culture of the United States of America...that's where I draw the line.
>As far as I'm concerned being gay is not the same as being straight.
>Period!
******* no one is trying to change your culture. Your culture is slowly
dying out. A new culture of acceptance of all gentle people ,truth,love
and respect is a-coming in . Your bigoted way is out bubb.
Blessings of Jesus,Mary and God
Brenda
John...@hotmail.com
> > Agreed, any philosopy that begins with all men
> > are created equal, is flawed with an obviously
> > not true premise.
> >
>
> Wrong again, dipwad. All men are created equal under the law. That is
> the principle, the ideal, the promise of the Constitution.
Read dipwad, I did not say under the law, I ment
what I said. All men are NOT created equal, some are
smarter, some are faster, some are fatter, and to
pretend this is not so is a flawed philosopy that
to many people try to live with wearing rose
colored glasses.
>
> Hey...let's get this straight. (sorry you probably don't care for that
> word.)
I am straight, dip wad.
> You can not expect people to throw off their own
> culture just to please you. You can not demand that someone else be
> forced to surrender their freedom in order that you can indulge in the
> sexual preference of your choice. This is what the gay movement is
> all
> about.
Complete, blatent hypocrisy. It is you wanting to use Biblical
Political Correctness to define what is acceptable and force your
culture on others. You want the Church in the state not out of the
state, thank goodness you arnt muslem or all the women would be
in veils.
> lifepartners, O.K. by me, just don't ry to tell me their married.
Great, now lets get them legal civil unions acknowleged
by the state, and leave it at that, with equal protection
under the law, and liberty for all.
> There is no credible scientific
> evidence that what queers are doing is anything more than exercising a
> preference for a partner of the same sex.
Well, if you can, read:
(all current peer reviewd professional journals)
Lautenberger JA, Stephens JC, O'Brien SJ, et al.
Significant admixture linkage disequilibrium across 30 cM around the FY
locus in African Americans
AM J HGreen R, Keverne EB
The disparate maternal aunt-uncle ratio in male transsexuals: an
explanation invoking genomic imprinting
J THEOR BIOL 202: (1) 55-63 JAN 7 2000
UM GENET 66: (3) 969-978 MAR 2000
Horvath CD
Interactionism and innateness in the evolutionary study of human nature
BIOL PHILOS 15: (3) 321-337 JUN 2000
Harvey PH
Biological exuberance: Animal homosexuality and natural diversity
NATURE 397: (6718) 402-403 FEB 4 1999
Neave N, Menaged M, Weightman DR
Sex differences in cognition: The role of testosterone and sexual
orientation
BRAIN COGNITION 41: (3) 245-262 DEC 1999
Herrell R, Goldberg J, True WR, et al.
Sexual orientation and suicidality - A co-twin control study in adult
men
ARCH GEN PSYCHIAT 56: (10) 867-874 OCT 1999
Horvath CD
Measuring gender
BIOL PHILOS 14: (4) 505-519 OCT 1999
Isay RA
Gender in homosexual boys: Some developmental and clinical
considerations
PSYCHIATRY 62: (2) 187-194 SUM 1999
King M, Bartlett A
British psychiatry and homosexuality
BRIT J PSYCHIAT 175: 106-113 AUG 1999
Rice G, Anderson C, Risch N, et al.
Male homosexuality: Absence of linkage to microsatellite markers at Xq28
SCIENCE 284: (5414) 665-667 APR 23 1999
Purcell DW
Sociolegal control of homosexuality: A multi-nation comparison.
J NERV MENT DIS 187: (6) 387-388 JUN 1999
Lee S
Psychiatry and homosexuality
BRIT J PSYCHIAT 175: 492-493 NOV 1999
Horvath CD
Measuring gender
BIOL PHILOS 14: (4) 505-519 OCT 1999
Bailey JM, Pillard RC, Dawood K, et al.
A family history study of male sexual orientation using three
independent samples
BEHAV GENET 29: (2) 79-86 MAR 1999
Cooke BM, Tabibnia G, Breedlove SM
A brain sexual dimorphism controlled by adult circulating androgens
P NATL ACAD SCI USA 96: (13) 7538-7540 JUN 22 1999
Saewyc EM, Skay CL, Bearinger LH, et al.
Demographics of sexual orientation among American-Indian adolescents
AM J ORTHOPSYCHIAT 68: (4) 590-600 OCT 1998
Gentilcore D
Forbidden friendships: Homosexuality and male culture in Renaissance
Florence
SOC HIST MED 11: (3) 506-508 DEC 1998
Jones MB, Blanchard R
Birth order and male homosexuality: Extension of Slater's index
HUM BIOL 70: (4) 775-787 AUG 1998
Pillard RC, Bailey JM
Human sexual orientation has a heritable component
HUM BIOL 70: (2) 347-365 APR 1998
Pattatucci AM
Molecular investigations into complex behavior: Lessons from sexual
orientation studies
HUM BIOL 70: (2) 367-386 APR 1998
Turner WJ
The genetic origin of asexuality, homosexuality, transvestism, and
transsexuality.
AM J MED GENET 74: (6) 661-662 NOV 21 1997
Goodman RE
Understanding human sexuality - Specifically homosexuality and the
paraphilias - In terms of chaos theory and fetal development
MED HYPOTHESES 48: (3) 237-243 MAR 1997
Blanchard R, Bogaert AF
Additive effects of older brothers and homosexual brothers in the
prediction of marriage and cohabitation
BEHAV GENET 27: (1) 45-54 JAN 1997
Martin JT, Gugelchuk G
Homosexuality and older brothers
AM J PSYCHIAT 154: (1) 136-136 JAN 1997
Morse LH
Genetics and homosexuality
WESTERN J MED 165: (1-2) 83-83 JUL-AUG 1996
semper...@my-deja.com
> >
> > From: semper...@my-deja.com
> > Reply to: [1] semper...@my-deja.com
> > Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 22:04:29 GMT
> >
> >In article [10] <8n1f97$unc$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> > John...@Hotmail.Com wrote:
> >>
> >> > No! That is not what I am saying at all. You need to shuck your
> >> > liberal, socialist, public school mis-education on this point and
> >see
> >> > the forest with the trees.
> >>
> >> are created equal, is flawed with an obviously
> >> not true premise.
> >>
> >
> >Wrong again, dipwad. All men are created equal under the law. That
is
> >the principle, the ideal, the promise of the Constitution.
> >
> >
that
> >word.)
> >
culture...the
> >culture of the United States of America...that's where I draw the
line.
> >As far as I'm concerned being gay is not the same as being straight.
> >Period!
> Semperfinite
>
> ******* no one is trying to change your culture. Your culture is
slowly
> dying out. A new culture of acceptance of all gentle people
,truth,love
> and respect is a-coming in . Your bigoted way is out bubb.
> Blessings of Jesus,Mary and God
> Brenda
>
Brenda,
Your probably a very nice person, BUT this is an issue upon which you
are sooooo wrong. My position is not bigotted. It is however
discriminatory and that is not a bad thing. There are many things that
we discriminate against in order to maintain our culture. For instance,
we discriminate against theft, even though we try to rehabilitate the
theif. As a society we discriminate against prostitution, pedophilia,
necrophelia, bestiality, and other deviant sexual behaviors because our
common morality ( based in our common Christian culture ) exhorts us to
shun those things while at the same time loving and trying to help those
rise above these kinds of activities.
Homosexuality is counter to our culture. It is a sexual preference,
like prefering tea over coffee. It is an aquired taste that has
detremental effects on our society, as does all sexual perversions.
Discriminating against this unhealthy practice is the right thing to
do.
I am not advocating violence toward the people who practice it. I am
advocating support for our cultural abhorance of its practice.
Just for the record, I am against divorce, poligamy, and cohabitation as
well, and for the same reasons. Although I do not advocate violence
toward the practitioners of these alternate life styles either. Our
culture is predicated on the marriage of one man to one woman for the
purpose of raising a family (children). This is the core of our
society, and I am for preserving it.
Do you get the distinction?
Semperfinite
semper...@my-deja.com
John...@Hotmail.Com wrote:
>
> > > Agreed, any philosopy that begins with all men
> > > are created equal, is flawed with an obviously
> > > not true premise.
> > >
> >
> > Wrong again, dipwad. All men are created equal under the law. That
is
> > the principle, the ideal, the promise of the Constitution.
>
> what I said. All men are NOT created equal, some are
> smarter, some are faster, some are fatter, and to
> pretend this is not so is a flawed philosopy that
> to many people try to live with wearing rose
> colored glasses.
>
No one would argue that all mean are created equal, except under the
law. Think about it. The Constitution is a legal document drafted to
underpin the legal presedence of a new nation. While the words "under
the law" are not included, they are most certainly implied.
Sheesh!
> >
> > Hey...let's get this straight. (sorry you probably don't care for
that
> > word.)
>
> I am straight, dip wad.
>
Says you. Of course if you accept some of the current psychobable,
you may actually be gay even if you've never had a homosexual
experience.
> > You can not expect people to throw off their own
> > culture just to please you.
> You can not demand that someone else be
> > forced to surrender their freedom in order that you can indulge in
the
> > sexual preference of your choice. This is what the gay movement is
> > all
> > about.
>
> Complete, blatent hypocrisy. It is you wanting to use Biblical
> Political Correctness to define what is acceptable and force your
> culture on others. You want the Church in the state not out of the
> state, thank goodness you arnt muslem or all the women would be
> in veils.
>
This has nothing particular to do with the bible. Although, if you
were at school the day they discussed culture, you would have learned
that there are five tenants to human culture. I will enumerate them for
you: 1) Religion, 2) History, 3) Social Etiquete, 4) Language and 5)
Art. In the American culture homosexuality does violate at least two
mores since most religions in this country do not accept homosexuality
as an alternate life style, and since our social etiquette has us react
civilly when we encounter such behavior even though we revile it.
> > lifepartners, O.K. by me, just don't ry to tell me their married.
>
> Great, now lets get them legal civil unions acknowleged
> by the state, and leave it at that, with equal protection
> under the law, and liberty for all.
>
Now why would I want to do that? I don't need to get them anything.
What we need to do is to teach our children that it is an unhealthy and
immoral alternate life style. Which it is to most American culture.
> > There is no credible scientific
> > evidence that what queers are doing is anything more than exercising
a
> > preference for a partner of the same sex.
>
> Well, if you can, read:
> (all current peer reviewd professional journals)
>
SNIP
Like I said, there is no credible scientific evidense to support the
idea that what queers are doing is anything more than exercising their
personnal preference for the same sex. Just as a necrophiliac can only
get off with the dead, and a pedophile needs to copulate with children,
homosexuals are sick individuals. Could this be a genetic disease?
Possibly, however, I see no good reason to accept them as normal into a
culture which has for over 200 years done quite nicely without them.
Brenda G. Tataryn
*** I get what you are saying...I always did. I have to ask how this pulls
down the culture or hurts it? ONe man who wishes to sleep with and have a
life with another man is in no way going to change your culture. The
States had a culture of intolerance for blacks mixing and then that
changed..why is this any difference. Not all people marry or marry and
have children...do we wish to take away their personal freedoms...freedoms
that the U.S. seems to cherish, and force them to act and be a certain
way? Does everyone living cookie-cutter perfect and exactly the same lives
make the society better? perhaps predictable but sad. America is a huge
experiment in tolerance. People from all over came to your country to
learn how to live together and share their difference. Being the same
is a very UN American standard. When people first started coming over they
were given more *English* names and told to give up their old country
languages. No one said...learn english *and* keep the old language but to
give up their old identity and try to be as *English* as possible.
Heck even the Native Americans who were their first!!!
This was looked upon later by intelligent persons as a mistake..Culture
cannot be forced on someone. The fact is America's culture is a Culture of
diversity...different ways of thinking,different backgrounds,etc and
tolerance. That is what you should think of Americas culture as...
a Culture of diversity and tolerance.
One man having sex with another consulting adult man is not going to
hurt anything.
Not all Americans are Christians. There is a separation of Church and
state and that should be kept....that is American *now* too.
Brenda
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com [9] http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.
Brenda G. Tataryn
I mean think of this...I read a book a while back and a man who recently
moved to the States wondered why people all said...I am African-American,
or I am Italien-American, or I am Irish-American..etc...
He thought all should say "I am American". At first I agreed ...it is
unifying and all. Then I started thinking...hey, this is what being
American means...having a hypen to show that you came from another culture
and moved into that big salad (Not a melting pot which erasing old
identities and puts on a new fake one) known as America.
Being American (from my Canadian point of view..with American
Grandparents) means having your roots originally in another country and
coming to this new country and learning how to live side by side with
different cultures in acceptance and toleration.
You should be happy and proud when someone says I am Irish-American or
Chinese-American ! it means that your country is a tolerant (or learning
to be tolerant) country. It means that your country is a rainbow of
colours and textures and sights and sounds and scents...not just one
bowl full of lettuce.
Brenda.
Brenda G. Tataryn
> Re: THE NEW CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
>
> Reply to: [1] Glenn (Christian Mystic
> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 03:53:17 GMT
>
>Outstanding, I love it. But what if you are a "mixed-breed" ?
>
>Glenn (Christian Mystic)
***** how does one explain a "very mixed salad?"
=)
Brenda
>
>On 14 Aug 2000 11:33:57 -0800, wt...@victoria.tc.ca (Brenda G.
Glenn (Christian Mystic)
Glenn (Christian Mystic)
On 14 Aug 2000 11:33:57 -0800, wt...@victoria.tc.ca (Brenda G.
Glenn (Christian Mystic)
Tataryn) wrote:
>>
>> Re: THE NEW CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT
>>
>> From: gw...@urjet.net (Glenn (Christian Mystic))
>> Reply to: [1] Glenn (Christian Mystic
>> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 03:53:17 GMT
>>
>>
>>Glenn (Christian Mystic)
>
>=)
>Brenda
LOL ! Okaaay