Hubble Telescope peers back 13 billion years
dolf
From correspondents in Washington From: AFP January 06, 2010 9:42AM
THE refurbished Hubble Space Telescope has set a new distance record by
discovering the oldest galaxies ever seen, dating back 13 billion years,
or 600-800 million years after the Big Bang, NASA said.
Again the only way the biblical Genesis narrative can be understood, is
as chronology and its relationship to language.
The Sabbath as a rule associated with the Priestly service divisions of
24 x 7 x 13 = 2184 days as 6D (6 x 364 days) 'oth cycle is determined by
computation from the Wednesday of the March Equinox following the elapse
of 6 Jubilees as 294 x 364 days.
Nevertheless, a variation of the 22/7 {= 3.1428571...} equation as
rational PI computation and the 364 day cycle from the DATE(1996,3,20) +
(5 * 364) + 182 days = Wednesday DATE(2001,9,12) gives the Equinox of
Saturday DATE(2001,9,23) as commencing the Sabbath year and the reprise
associated to the following schema as a transcendent negation of the
Gregorian cycle of #400 years x 365.2425 as the basis for replacement
theology, which is as 146097 days evenly divisible by seven:
#0 MOD 22 = 22 [#TAU / #400] as 4000 BCE
#400 MOD 22 = 17 [#PE / #80]
#800 MOD 22 = 12 [#LAMED / #30]
#1200 MOD 22 = 7 [#ZAYIN / #7]
#1600 MOD 22 = 2 [#BETH / #2]
#2000 MOD 22 = 19 [#QOPH / #100]
#2400 MOD 22 = 14 [#NUN / #50]
#2800 MOD 22 = 9 [#TETH / #9]
#3200 MOD 22 = 4 [#DALETH / #4]
#3600 MOD 22 = 21 [#SHIN / #300]
#4000 MOD 22 = 16 [#'AYIN / #70] = #0 CE as HETEROS (Zeus and Hera
marriage based Pythagorean religious Symbolic Number Mysticism [Acts
14:12-18]) autonomic transformative prototype and symbolic planetary
associator to the series #15 - Saturn, #34 - Jupiter, #65 - Mars, #111 -
Sun, #175 - Venus, #260 - Mercury, #369 - Luna ... #2000 Y2K
#4400 MOD 22 = 11 [#KAF / #20] = #400 CE
#4800 MOD 22 = 6 [#VAV / #6] = #800 CE
#5200 MOD 22 = 1 [#ALEPH / #1] = #1200 CE
#5600 MOD 22 = 18 [#TSADE / #90] = #1600 CE
#6000 MOD 22 = 13 [#MEM / #40] = #2000 Y2K / Equinox of DATE(1996,3,20)
/ @ (21 March = 1 Nisan) + (5 * 364) + 182 days = Wednesday
DATE(2001,9,12) with Equinox of Saturday DATE(2001,9,23) commencing the
Sabbath year of 'oth cycle has #369 with Septet #41 centric on 13-17
September 2001 / @ 18 September = 1 Tishri 5762.
#1 = [the major premise {YANG/FATHER/HEAVEN/MALE/FORM - Formula of
Universal Law}, which contains the law of that will:
7 x 24 x 13 = 2184 days of the 'oth cycle of the Temple priestly service
divisions = 6D or 6 x 364 associated to the hypothetical 'constant
sequence of sun and moon' as 354 x 3 + 30 day intercalation = 1092 days
x 2 = 2184 days] +
#2 = [the minor premise {YIN/MOTHER/EARTH/FEMALE/MATTER - Formula of
Humanity - HEAD OF STATE}, which contains the command to behave in
accordance with the law, that is, the principle of subsumption under the
law:
x 49 = 6J or 294 x 364 days or 293 x 365.2423 years - Vernal Equinox
Wednesday 20 March 1996 / 21 March = 1 Nisan 5756; and] +
#3 = [the conclusion {ZHUN/SON/SEA/ENUMERATE/OFFSPRING - Formula of
Autonomy}, which contains the verdict (sentence), that is laid down as
right in the case at hand: ... 6,000 tropical years as Telos ('achariyth
as 122J3W1D) = Arch (re'shiyth as 3W1D) + c� [9(9�+1)/2]:
has #369 with Septet #41 {ie. #81 - #27 - #9 - #3 - #1} centric on {ie.
20 March 1996 + (5*364) + 182 = 12 Sept 2001 as 1st day of 7th solar
month = #0 - Zero point} 13-17 September 2001 / 18 September = 1 Tishri
5762. ref: "On [Sunday 16 September 2001 as] the 1st day of the [21st
priestly] course of Jachin {he that strengthens and makes steadfast} on
the 29th day of lunar month, on the 5th day of the 7th solar month."
[4Q321]] +
#4 = 'OTH Chronological Elements = #10 as {Totality of Nature = Formula
of Progression of individual phenomena: #1 = {0: 1} + #2 = {0: -1, 1: 1}
+ #3 = {0: 0, 1: 1} + #4 = {0: 1, 1: 1} = #10 = {0: 1, 1: 0, 2: 1}}
vCube Balanced Ternary System distribution: #1 = {0: 1}; #41 = {0: -1,
1: -1, 2: -1, 3: -1, 4: 1}; #81 = (0: 0, 1: 0, 2:0, 3:0, 4:1}
- http://www.grapple.id.au/images/toth9.gif
Telos ('achariyth as 122J3W1D or 6,000 tropical years) = Arch (re'shiyth
as 3W1D) + c� [9(9�+1)/2]
"For since the creation of the world his invisible attributes are
clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his
eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because,
although they knew God, they did not glorify him as God, nor were they
thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts
were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the
glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man
(image of male and female)--and birds and four-footed beasts and
creeping things." [Deuteronomy 4:15-19; Romans 1:20]
"We are telling you the good news (ie. GOSPEL as compliant with the
writings of Moses [John 5:46-47; Acts 15:21] and the prophets [Daniel
9:11-13]) to turn from these worthless things (HETEROS -- Zeus and Hera
marriage based Pythagorean religious symbolic number mysticism and
asceticism [Matthew 19:12]) to the living God, who made heaven and
earth, the sea, and everything in them. In past generations he allowed
all the nations to go their own ways, yet he has not left himself
without a witness by doing good, by giving you rain from heaven and
fruitful seasons, and by filling you with food and joyful hearts. Even
by saying this it was all they could do to keep the crowds from offering
sacrifices to them." [Acts 14:12-18]
#6400 MOD 22 = 8 [#CHET / #8]
#6800 MOD 22 = 3 [#GIMEL / #3]
#7200 MOD 22 = 20 [#RESH / #200]
#7600 MOD 22 = 15 [#SAMEK / #60]
#8000 MOD 22 = 10 [#YOD / #10]
#8400 MOD 22 = 5 [#HE / #5]
#8800 MOD 22 = 22 [#TAU / #400] as 8800 CE
I
> Hubble Telescope peers back 13 billion years
> From correspondents in Washington From: AFP January 06, 2010 9:42AM
>
> THE refurbished Hubble Space Telescope has set a new distance record by
> discovering the oldest galaxies ever seen, dating back 13 billion years,
> or 600-800 million years after the Big Bang, NASA said.
>
> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/hubble-telescope-peers-back-13-billion-years/story-fn3dxity-1225816488785
Yep! The creationist universe of a mere 6000 years pales in comparison to
the scientific fact. The light from 13 billion years ago is reaching us
through the Hubble Space Telescope. See http://hubble.nasa.gov/
#######################################################
Many of the Christians who oppose Darwinism today are Calvinists, but Calvin
insisted that the bible was not a scientific document and that those who
wanted to learn about astronomy or cosmology should look elsewhere.
- Karen Armstrong "On The Bible" (Allen & Unwin:2007) p.223
####################################################
glenn
> Hubble Telescope peers back 13 billion years
What utter crap!
--
Glenn
.
"Don't let your mind be cluttered with prevailing doctrine."
Alexander Fleming
.
glenn
> "dolf" <dolf...@grapple.id.au> wrote
>
>> Hubble Telescope peers back 13 billion years
>> From correspondents in Washington From: AFP January 06, 2010 9:42AM
>>
>> THE refurbished Hubble Space Telescope has set a new distance record by
>> discovering the oldest galaxies ever seen, dating back 13 billion years,
>> or 600-800 million years after the Big Bang, NASA said.
>>
>> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/hubble-telescope-peers-back-13-billion-years/story-fn3dxity-1225816488785
>
>
> Yep! The creationist universe of a mere 6000 years pales in comparison to
> the scientific fact.
It's not a fact, it's a perversion of data to support a false theory.
> The light from 13 billion years ago is reaching us
> through the Hubble Space Telescope. See http://hubble.nasa.gov/
Wrong Oh deceived one!
The light which falls on your eyes from any greater distance than about
(perhaps) 6.6 thousand years is light God Created.
The light of God's creation is visible to you, EXCEPT that Satan has
blinded your mind.
dolf
glenn
> Glenn is quite rabid and deluded.
LOL, poor dolf!
swa...@ozemail.com.au
> dolf wrote:
> > Hubble Telescope peers back 13 billion years
>
> What utter crap!
>
http://creation.com/the-Hubble-Law
Astronomical problems
http://creation.com/astronomical-problems
> Don't let your mind be cluttered with prevailing doctrine."
> Alexander Fleming
> .
Gladys Swager
dolf
on the biblical cosmology as 'oth cycle and the Gregorian calendar.
I at least have no problems accepting both the statements about the
hubble telescope and chronology as true.
You have no valid viewpoint, except to snip and snipe crap and LOL as a
demented person.
On 6/01/10 12:22 PM, glenn <gamc...@spiritone.com> wrote:
> dolf wrote:
>> Glenn is quite rabid and deluded.
>
> LOL, poor dolf!
>
>
Hubble Telescope peers back 13 billion years
In My Fathers House
> I wrote:
> > "dolf" <dolfb...@grapple.id.au> wrote
>
> >> Hubble Telescope peers back 13 billion years
> >> From correspondents in Washington From: AFP January 06, 2010 9:42AM
>
> >> THE refurbished Hubble Space Telescope has set a new distance record by
> >> discovering the oldest galaxies ever seen, dating back 13 billion years,
> >> or 600-800 million years after the Big Bang, NASA said.
>
>
> > Yep! The creationist universe of a mere 6000 years pales in comparison to
> > the scientific fact.
>
> It's not a fact, it's a perversion of data to support a false theory.
Okay show us the evidence. You can show us the evidence - can't you?
You wouldn't say such things if you are talking about an unsupported
belief.
> > The light from 13 billion years ago is reaching us
> > through the Hubble Space Telescope. Seehttp://hubble.nasa.gov/
>
> Wrong Oh deceived one!
>
> The light which falls on your eyes from any greater distance than about
> (perhaps) 6.6 thousand years is light God Created.
So why did God deceive us?
> The light of God's creation is visible to you, EXCEPT that Satan has
> blinded your mind.
I thought you said that God created the deceptive light that lies to
us.
Let me guess - you have no evidence at all and you are just asserting
what you believe because you are unhappy about what science has
discovered from the evidence.
The Christian elephant in the room
news:4b43dabf$0$86441$39ce...@news.twtelecom.net...
>I wrote:
>> "dolf" <dolf...@grapple.id.au> wrote
>>
>>> Hubble Telescope peers back 13 billion years
>>> From correspondents in Washington From: AFP January 06, 2010 9:42AM
>>>
>>> THE refurbished Hubble Space Telescope has set a new distance record by
>>> discovering the oldest galaxies ever seen, dating back 13 billion years,
>>> or 600-800 million years after the Big Bang, NASA said.
>>>
>>> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/hubble-telescope-peers-back-13-billion-years/story-fn3dxity-1225816488785
>>
>>
>> Yep! The creationist universe of a mere 6000 years pales in comparison
>> to the scientific fact.
>
> It's not a fact, it's a perversion of data to support a false theory.
>
Lol. Ah you Bible believers are such comedians. When are you going to come
out of the dark ages and into the 21st century?
>
>> The light from 13 billion years ago is reaching us through the Hubble
>> Space Telescope. See http://hubble.nasa.gov/
>
> Wrong Oh deceived one!
>
You are the deceived one Mr. Bible believer.
>
> The light which falls on your eyes from any greater distance than about
> (perhaps) 6.6 thousand years is light God Created.
>
<guffaw>!!!
This is better than the comedy channel!
>
> The light of God's creation is visible to you, EXCEPT that Satan has
> blinded your mind.
>
Hahahaha!!!
This is priceless!
Andrew W
> dolf wrote:
>> Hubble Telescope peers back 13 billion years
>
> What utter crap!
>
Its been verified by scientists. Are you a scientist by any chance?
If not then be quiet.
glenn
>
>
>
Certainly I have a valid point, several in fact:
First is that you are delusional.
Second is that God TOLD us how he created the Universe.
Third is that He created a mature Chicken, mature cows, a mature Whale,
mature trees, and a mature man in a mature universe -- which is now just
about 7 thousand years old.
My third valid point, is that the big bang universe and evolution are
lies of Satan.
glenn
> On Jan 6, 11:31 am, glenn wrote:
>> dolf wrote:
>>> Hubble Telescope peers back 13 billion years
>> What utter crap!
>>
> The Hubble Law
> http://creation.com/the-Hubble-Law
Hubble, along with all others who believe in the 14 billion year old
expanding universe, are deceived by Satan.
>
> Astronomical problems
> http://creation.com/astronomical-problems
>
--
Glenn
.
dolf
expressed by a news article. You unnecessarily engage in ad hominem.
Others have rightly observed your conduct has no grounding in reality
and is laughable.
glenn
> "glenn" <gamc...@spiritone.com> wrote in message
> news:4b43d9e0$0$86441$39ce...@news.twtelecom.net...
>> dolf wrote:
>>> Hubble Telescope peers back 13 billion years
>> What utter crap!
>>
>
> Its been verified by scientists.
No, it has not "been verified by scientists."
As I said, the 14 billion year old expanding universe theory is utter
crap, and so called "scientists" who believe it simply pervert and
falsify the evidence which falls on their eyes to support the LIE they
wish to believe.
dolf
Andrew W
> dolf wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>
> Certainly I have a valid point, several in fact:
>
You think you do, but all that you Bible believers have is personal beliefs
and private interpretations.
Personal beliefs and private interpretations are not valid points.
>
> First is that you are delusional.
>
We have proof that *you* are.
>
> Second is that God TOLD us how he created the Universe.
>
Please refresh our memories. How did God say that he create the universe?
What kind of energy did he use etc? How did he form everything?
I don't recall seeing any actual technical details of the process of
creation.
I think you've just greatly overstepped your mark, as your type too often
do.
>
> Third is that He created a mature Chicken, mature cows, a mature Whale,
> mature trees, and a mature man in a mature universe -- which is now just
> about 7 thousand years old.
>
And how did he do this? Did he just conjure them all up like a magician?
So you think that God is just a big invisible magician? Is that what you
think?
You silly child. You've been watching too much Harry Potter.
>
> My third valid point, is that the big bang universe and evolution are lies
> of Satan.
>
That's just a really superstitious statement, not a valid point.
Its hard to believe that in the 21st century there are still people around
that say such superstitious and silly things.
Were you raised in the Bible belt or something?
Do you still believe that the earth is flat? If not then good, but realise
that you're actually not too far from that worldview.
Andrew W
> Andrew W wrote:
>> "glenn" <gamc...@spiritone.com> wrote in message
>> news:4b43d9e0$0$86441$39ce...@news.twtelecom.net...
>>> dolf wrote:
>>>> Hubble Telescope peers back 13 billion years
>>> What utter crap!
>>>
>>
>> Its been verified by scientists.
>
> No, it has not "been verified by scientists."
>
> As I said, the 14 billion year old expanding universe theory is utter
> crap, and so called "scientists" who believe it simply pervert and falsify
> the evidence which falls on their eyes to support the LIE they wish to
> believe.
>
I bet it was a Bible bleating preacher who told you all that.
I can tell that you haven't investigated any of this for yourself.
Prove me wrong.
glenn
> I don't see how I can be delusional for conveying a scientific opinion
The "scientific opinion" you quote is a lie of Satan.
As for delusion, read the Truth:
2 Thes 2:
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish;
because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they
should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth...
"science" with it's big bang expanding 14 billion year old universe, and
evolution, are delusions brought on those who have no love of truth.
ANYONE who believes those Satanic lies is suffering from delusion.
glenn
> "glenn" <gamc...@spiritone.com> wrote in message
> news:4b4419cd$0$86445$39ce...@news.twtelecom.net...
>> Andrew W wrote:
>>> "glenn" <gamc...@spiritone.com> wrote in message
>>> news:4b43d9e0$0$86441$39ce...@news.twtelecom.net...
>>>> dolf wrote:
>>>>> Hubble Telescope peers back 13 billion years
>>>> What utter crap!
>>>>
>>> Its been verified by scientists.
>> No, it has not "been verified by scientists."
>>
>> As I said, the 14 billion year old expanding universe theory is utter
>> crap, and so called "scientists" who believe it simply pervert and falsify
>> the evidence which falls on their eyes to support the LIE they wish to
>> believe.
>>
>
> I bet it was a Bible bleating preacher who told you all that.
You lost. Now tell me how much you bet.
> I can tell that you haven't investigated any of this for yourself.
How quickly and easily you leap to a false assumption.
> Prove me wrong.
I can't prove you wrong, only YOU can prove you wrong -- but to do that,
you need to be willing to use your own mind to learn, and stop listening
to the false prophets of "science."
http://www.thelittlebookopened.org/main/argue/illogical.html
http://www.thelittlebookopened.org/main/about/control.html
dolf
galaxies previously unseen.
- dolf
Andrew W
> Andrew W wrote:
>> "glenn" <gamc...@spiritone.com> wrote in message
>> news:4b4419cd$0$86445$39ce...@news.twtelecom.net...
>>> Andrew W wrote:
>>>> "glenn" <gamc...@spiritone.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:4b43d9e0$0$86441$39ce...@news.twtelecom.net...
>>>>> dolf wrote:
>>>>>> Hubble Telescope peers back 13 billion years
>>>>> What utter crap!
>>>>>
>>>> Its been verified by scientists.
>>> No, it has not "been verified by scientists."
>>>
>>> As I said, the 14 billion year old expanding universe theory is utter
>>> crap, and so called "scientists" who believe it simply pervert and
>>> falsify the evidence which falls on their eyes to support the LIE they
>>> wish to believe.
>>>
>>
>> I bet it was a Bible bleating preacher who told you all that.
>
> You lost. Now tell me how much you bet.
>
I didn't bet anything silly. It was an expression.
Now tell me who it was that told you and don't try to avoid the question
because you're just indicting yourself more.
>
>> I can tell that you haven't investigated any of this for yourself.
>
> How quickly and easily you leap to a false assumption.
>
Its not a false assumption, because if you had investigated then you
wouldn't saying what you are.
So now, what investigations have you done?
>
>> Prove me wrong.
>
> I can't prove you wrong, only YOU can prove you wrong -- but to do that,
> you need to be willing to use your own mind to learn, and stop listening
> to the false prophets of "science."
>
I am using my own mind. I have been on a mission to find out the truth about
everything from all sources.
It is you who isn't using your own mind. You are just following preachers,
plus your own private interpretations.
>
> http://www.thelittlebookopened.org/main/argue/illogical.html
>
> http://www.thelittlebookopened.org/main/about/control.html
>
>
You do realise that the above is an apologist website.
Apologists don't truly seek the truth, they instead seek to justify all the
stories in the Bible as the undying truth of God to impress and gain favours
from him so they get their reward in the afterlife.
But little do they know that the Bible is not 100% divinely inspired so
they're actually making fools of themselves.
And you will notice on the about page that the author of the site doesn't
want to be identified. Why would that be I wonder.
glenn
> Just saw the news item on the evening television news. It included
> galaxies previously unseen.
Yes, and each of them was created by God in His act of creation, and the
light from each of them was created by God.
dolf
On 6/01/10 6:01 PM, Andrew W wrote:
> "glenn"<gamc...@spiritone.com> wrote in message
> news:4b442e26$0$86450$39ce...@news.twtelecom.net...
>>
>> http://www.thelittlebookopened.org/main/argue/illogical.html
>>
>> http://www.thelittlebookopened.org/main/about/control.html
>>
>>
AGREEMENT AND DISCLAIMER
By acquiring the literature from this site you agree to the following:
The author of "THE LITTLE BOOK" and the owner/operator of this site
and/or their employees or assigns, shall not be responsible for mental
or emotional distress, depression, or other consequences of your reading
this literature.
Responsibility
You accept sole responsibility for your conduct. If you are unwilling,
or unable due to legal status as a minor or emotional/mental
instability, to accept responsibility for acquiring literature from this
site, you should exit here.
http://www.thelittlebookopened.org/main/disclaimer.html
swa...@ozemail.com.au
> s...@ozemail.com.au wrote:
> > On Jan 6, 11:31 am, glenn wrote:
> >> dolf wrote:
> >>> Hubble Telescope peers back 13 billion years
> >> What utter crap!
>
> > The Hubble Law
> >http://creation.com/the-Hubble-Law
>
> Hubble, along with all others who believe in the 14 billion year old
> expanding universe, are deceived by Satan.
>
because that is the sum total of their learning through the school
system
the media, eand their own personal readings.
Now pre-school children are being taught about 64 year old Dinosaurs
and don't the 3 - 5 year olds love the Dinosaurs!.
Dinosaur Questions and Answers
http://www,creationonheweb.com/content/view/3061/
> > Astronomical problems
> >http://creation.com/astronomical-problems
>
My mind boggles at the idea of looking through a telescope
and seeing millions of years. It just doesn't add up in my brain.
But I realise that it is possible to think in terms of millions
of years when the Creator God of the Bible is eliminated from
one's thinking. In fact, it's then the only way those persons can
make their judgments. It has to be mllions of years to allow
for the time necessary to change up the ladder of life (whatever!)
Gladys Swager
glenn
> "glenn" <gamc...@spiritone.com> wrote in message
> news:4b442e26$0$86450$39ce...@news.twtelecom.net...
>> Andrew W wrote:
>>> "glenn" <gamc...@spiritone.com> wrote in message
>>> news:4b4419cd$0$86445$39ce...@news.twtelecom.net...
>>>> Andrew W wrote:
>>>>> "glenn" <gamc...@spiritone.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:4b43d9e0$0$86441$39ce...@news.twtelecom.net...
>>>>>> dolf wrote:
>>>>>>> Hubble Telescope peers back 13 billion years
>>>>>> What utter crap!
>>>>>>
>>>>> Its been verified by scientists.
>>>> No, it has not "been verified by scientists."
>>>>
>>>> As I said, the 14 billion year old expanding universe theory is utter
>>>> crap, and so called "scientists" who believe it simply pervert and
>>>> falsify the evidence which falls on their eyes to support the LIE they
>>>> wish to believe.
>>>>
>>> I bet it was a Bible bleating preacher who told you all that.
>> You lost. Now tell me how much you bet.
>>
>
> I didn't bet anything silly. It was an expression.
Oh, so you didn't mean what you said?
You lost your bet.
> Now tell me who it was that told you and don't try to avoid the question
> because you're just indicting yourself more.
Where did you get the idea that "somebody told me?"
Just leap to assumptions, do you?
>
>>> I can tell that you haven't investigated any of this for yourself.
>> How quickly and easily you leap to a false assumption.
>>
>
> Its not a false assumption, because if you had investigated then you
> wouldn't saying what you are.
Again you leap to a false assumption. I'm saying what I say BECAUSE I
have investigated.
> So now, what investigations have you done?
http://www.thelittlebookopened.org/main/argue/illogical.html
>
>>> Prove me wrong.
>> I can't prove you wrong, only YOU can prove you wrong -- but to do that,
>> you need to be willing to use your own mind to learn, and stop listening
>> to the false prophets of "science."
>>
>
> I am using my own mind. I have been on a mission to find out the truth about
> everything from all sources.
LOL! "...the truth about EVERYTHING from ALL sources..." Genius, Sheer
Genius!
You have just demonstrated that your "mission" is a trip into delusion.
> It is you who isn't using your own mind. You are just following preachers,
You continue with your assumptions. I guess because you are free to make
assumptions which support your chosen delusions.
> plus your own private interpretations.
>
>> http://www.thelittlebookopened.org/main/argue/illogical.html
>>
>> http://www.thelittlebookopened.org/main/about/control.html
>>
>>
>
> You do realise that the above is an apologist website.
LOL!
> Apologists don't truly seek the truth, they instead seek to justify all the
> stories in the Bible as the undying truth of God to impress and gain favours
> from him so they get their reward in the afterlife.
> But little do they know that the Bible is not 100% divinely inspired so
> they're actually making fools of themselves.
>
> And you will notice on the about page that the author of the site doesn't
> want to be identified. Why would that be I wonder.
If you were intelligent as you think you are, you would indeed "wonder."
THEN you would do a little investigation, and THINK. Oh, but you can't
THINK, can you? How utterly sad.
Andrew W
> dolf wrote:
>> Just saw the news item on the evening television news. It included
>> galaxies previously unseen.
>
> Yes, and each of them was created by God in His act of creation, and the
> light from each of them was created by God.
>
And God made it look like the universe is much older just to fool scientists
so they'll all end up in hell right?
So why does God hate scientists so much that he wants them and any who
believe them to all go to hell just for getting a timeframe wrong?
You can't be serious man.
Is your god that evil and afraid of being found out that he has to kill off
all the scientists and generally smart and educated people? Or is it just
your superstitious fundy religious clergy are afraid of being seen for what
they are so they have fooled rubes like you to help keep them going?
Do you know how to use Occam's razor at all?
Andrew W
> s...@ozemail.com.au wrote:
>> On Jan 6, 11:31 am, glenn wrote:
>>> dolf wrote:
>>>> Hubble Telescope peers back 13 billion years
>>> What utter crap!
>>>
>> The Hubble Law
>> http://creation.com/the-Hubble-Law
>
> Hubble, along with all others who believe in the 14 billion year old
> expanding universe, are deceived by Satan.
>
Do you realise how incredibly superstitious that sounds?
Here's the definition for the word superstition.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/superstition
It describes your religion to a T.
Now look up dogma.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/dogma
swa...@ozemail.com.au
> "glenn" wrote in message
> > s...@ozemail.com.au wrote:
> >> On Jan 6, 11:31 am, glenn wrote:
> >>> dolf wrote:
> >>>> Hubble Telescope peers back 13 billion years
> >>> What utter crap!
>
> >> The Hubble Law
> >>http://creation.com/the-Hubble-Law
>
> > Hubble, along with all others who believe in the 14 billion year old
> > expanding universe, are deceived by Satan.
>
> Do you realise how incredibly superstitious that sounds?
>
in NSW schools.
That means everyone about sixty years of age or less has had that
teaching.
> Here's the definition for the word superstition.
> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/superstition
> It describes your religion to a T.
>
According to your reading of the definition.
I wonder if you REALLY WANT to know whether it is superstition or
not?
> Now look up dogma.
> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/dogma
All you science buffs, tell me how a Telescope can be used to set up
an experiment that shows the moment of the emergence of light -
a given number of millions of years ago.
A truly scientific experiment that is repeatable and testable,
What is happening is that you know the speed of light and you
calculate
backwards. Is that the way you are working???
BUT WHAT IF THERE WAS A CREATOR GOD WAY BACK THEN
AND THAT CREATOR GOD WAS SO OMNIPOTENT THAT HE COULD SPEAK
AND THE UNIVERSE APPEARED. EX NIHILO = OUT OF NOTHING!!!???
And that Creation actually happened six to ten thousand years ago!
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/3040/
Gladys Swager
Andrew W
> Andrew W wrote:
>> "glenn" <gamc...@spiritone.com> wrote in message
>> news:4b442e26$0$86450$39ce...@news.twtelecom.net...
>>> Andrew W wrote:
>>>> "glenn" <gamc...@spiritone.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:4b4419cd$0$86445$39ce...@news.twtelecom.net...
>>>>> Andrew W wrote:
>>>>>
>>>> I bet it was a Bible bleating preacher who told you all that.
>>> You lost. Now tell me how much you bet.
>>>
>>
>> I didn't bet anything silly. It was an expression.
>
> Oh, so you didn't mean what you said?
>
It was an expression dummy! Are you so cloistered that you think that
whenever someone says that, they actually go and have bet with someone?
Man.
>
> You lost your bet.
>
Come again? You haven't given me your source, let alone shown that you check
it out.
You claim a false victory just like every dishonest and dishonourable fundy
who subconsciously knows that they're on weak ground.
Everyone knows that you could have only obtained your info from a Bible
preacher or creation apologist but its apparent that you are ashamed to
admit it.
>
>> Now tell me who it was that told you and don't try to avoid the question
>> because you're just indicting yourself more.
>
> Where did you get the idea that "somebody told me?"
>
> Just leap to assumptions, do you?
>
Then you just came up with it on your own from your own private unqualified
Bible interpretations?
In that case its just your own uneducated opinion which leaves you in an
even weaker position.
Settled.
>>
>>>> I can tell that you haven't investigated any of this for yourself.
>>> How quickly and easily you leap to a false assumption.
>>>
>>
>> Its not a false assumption, because if you had investigated then you
>> wouldn't saying what you are.
>
> Again you leap to a false assumption. I'm saying what I say BECAUSE I have
> investigated.
>
>> So now, what investigations have you done?
>
> http://www.thelittlebookopened.org/main/argue/illogical.html
>
A religious apologists website? That's not investigation, that's just
seeking a website that backs up your own current superstitious religious
beliefs.
That's not searching for the truth.
>>
>>>> Prove me wrong.
>>> I can't prove you wrong, only YOU can prove you wrong -- but to do that,
>>> you need to be willing to use your own mind to learn, and stop listening
>>> to the false prophets of "science."
>>>
>>
>> I am using my own mind. I have been on a mission to find out the truth
>> about everything from all sources.
>
> LOL! "...the truth about EVERYTHING from ALL sources..." Genius, Sheer
> Genius!
>
> You have just demonstrated that your "mission" is a trip into delusion.
>
Coming from a superstitious fundy that sounds precious.
>
>> plus your own private interpretations.
>>
>>> http://www.thelittlebookopened.org/main/argue/illogical.html
>>>
>>> http://www.thelittlebookopened.org/main/about/control.html
>>>
>>>
>>
>> You do realise that the above is an apologist website.
>
> LOL!
>
Look up the word apologist yourself.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/apologist
>
>> Apologists don't truly seek the truth, they instead seek to justify all
>> the stories in the Bible as the undying truth of God to impress and gain
>> favours from him so they get their reward in the afterlife.
>> But little do they know that the Bible is not 100% divinely inspired so
>> they're actually making fools of themselves.
>>
>> And you will notice on the about page that the author of the site doesn't
>> want to be identified. Why would that be I wonder.
>
> If you were intelligent as you think you are, you would indeed "wonder."
I do wonder. But I also seek the truth, unlike you fundys who just seek to
please your angry middle eastern bullshite god at the expense of the truth.
>
> THEN you would do a little investigation, and THINK. Oh, but you can't
> THINK, can you? How utterly sad.
>
How much thinking does it take to just believe and have faith which is all
you really do, despite your dishonest pretence and turning of tables?
glenn
> On Jan 6, 3:56 pm, glenn wrote:
>> s...@ozemail.com.au wrote:
>>> On Jan 6, 11:31 am, glenn wrote:
>>>> dolf wrote:
>>>>> Hubble Telescope peers back 13 billion years
>>>> What utter crap!
>>> The Hubble Law
>>> http://creation.com/the-Hubble-Law
>> Hubble, along with all others who believe in the 14 billion year old
>> expanding universe, are deceived by Satan.
>>
> They believe in evolutionary (goo-to-you-via-the-zoo) processes
> because that is the sum total of their learning through the school
> system
> the media, eand their own personal readings.
> Now pre-school children are being taught about 64 year old Dinosaurs
> and don't the 3 - 5 year olds love the Dinosaurs!.
> Dinosaur Questions and Answers
> http://www,creationonheweb.com/content/view/3061/
>
>>> Astronomical problems
>>> http://creation.com/astronomical-problems
> My mind boggles at the idea of looking through a telescope
> and seeing millions of years.
I once had a 3.5 inch telescope, adequate for watching Jupiter's moons
dance in his presence, and seeing the rings or Saturn...
Unfortunately, I couldn't see (that I knew of) out past some few
thousand light years.
Still, I realized that God HAD created a mature very, very wide
universe, as wide, in fact, as mankind could see or build telescopes to
see. Then, I realized that God had created the mature universe a little
over 6.5 thousand years ago, SO ALL THE LIGHT THAT FALLS ON OUR EYES
PAST THAT DISTANCE IS LIGHT GOD CREATED WHEN HE SAID. "LET THERE BE LIGHT!"
Satan robs mankind of conceiving, perceiving, that the light of God's
creation is visible to us to this very day!
> It just doesn't add up in my brain.
> But I realise that it is possible to think in terms of millions
> of years when the Creator God of the Bible is eliminated from
> one's thinking. In fact, it's then the only way those persons can
> make their judgments. It has to be mllions of years to allow
> for the time necessary to change up the ladder of life (whatever!)
> Gladys Swager
>
Thanks for your comments, Gladys.
glenn
> "glenn" <gamc...@spiritone.com> wrote in message
> news:4b443718$0$86441$39ce...@news.twtelecom.net...
>> dolf wrote:
>>> Just saw the news item on the evening television news. It included
>>> galaxies previously unseen.
>> Yes, and each of them was created by God in His act of creation, and the
>> light from each of them was created by God.
>>
>
> And God made it look like the universe is much older just to fool scientists
> so they'll all end up in hell right?
Now you make a false accusation against God?
If God TOLD you He created a mature man in a mature universe, where is
the lie?
The lie, Andrew, is in the pseudo science belief that the origin of all
things MUST have been from the egg, from the seed, from the germ in the
slime! The Lie, Andrew, is that God could NOT do as HE stated and create
a mature man in a mature universe.
If HE did as HE said HE did, then it is Satan and the "scientists" who
are the liars!
It is the big bang cosmology which is the liar.
glenn
> "glenn" <gamc...@spiritone.com> wrote in message
> news:4b441804$0$86445$39ce...@news.twtelecom.net...
>> s...@ozemail.com.au wrote:
>>> On Jan 6, 11:31 am, glenn wrote:
>>>> dolf wrote:
>>>>> Hubble Telescope peers back 13 billion years
>>>> What utter crap!
>>>>
>>> The Hubble Law
>>> http://creation.com/the-Hubble-Law
>> Hubble, along with all others who believe in the 14 billion year old
>> expanding universe, are deceived by Satan.
>>
>
> Do you realise how incredibly superstitious that sounds?
You reject Truth and Reality to believe in delusion, and you talk about
"superstition"?
Modern science (evolution) is based on the superstition of the ancient
Babylonian priests who believed that life came from the sea! Look it up,
if you have the courage!
Modern science (astronomy) is based on the superstition of the ancient
Babylonian priests who believed that the heavens were supported by an
arch! Look it up, if you have the courage!
http://www.thelittlebookopened.org/chapters/19bblsci.html
Andrew W
> On Jan 6, 7:53 pm, "Andrew W" wrote:
>> "glenn" wrote in message
>>> s...@ozemail.com.au wrote:
>>>> On Jan 6, 11:31 am, glenn wrote:
>>>>> dolf wrote:
>>>>>> Hubble Telescope peers back 13 billion years
>>>>> What utter crap!
>>
>>>> The Hubble Law
>>>> http://creation.com/the-Hubble-Law
>>
>>> Hubble, along with all others who believe in the 14 billion year old
>>> expanding universe, are deceived by Satan.
>>
>> Do you realise how incredibly superstitious that sounds?
>>
> Evolution and long ages has been the teaching for near to fifty years
> in NSW schools.
> That means everyone about sixty years of age or less has had that
> teaching.
>
>> Here's the definition for the word superstition.
>> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/superstition
>
>> It describes your religion to a T.
>>
> According to your reading of the definition.
> I wonder if you REALLY WANT to know whether it is superstition or
> not?
>
Well lets hear your definition of superstition. I'm all ears.
>
>> Now look up dogma.
>> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/dogma
>
> All you science buffs, tell me how a Telescope can be used to set up
> an experiment that shows the moment of the emergence of light -
> a given number of millions of years ago.
> A truly scientific experiment that is repeatable and testable,
>
> What is happening is that you know the speed of light and you
> calculate
> backwards. Is that the way you are working???
>
Its not as simple as that. But anything would be far better than insisting
that God created the world or universe 6,000 years ago just because someone
wrote a simplistic story a couple of thousand years ago to tell their
kiddies.
>
> BUT WHAT IF THERE WAS A CREATOR GOD WAY BACK THEN
> AND THAT CREATOR GOD WAS SO OMNIPOTENT THAT HE COULD SPEAK
> AND THE UNIVERSE APPEARED. EX NIHILO = OUT OF NOTHING!!!???
>
In a way that's what happened, but the creator is not an anthropomorphic
person (unless it was an ET). It was purely an energy event. Otherwise where
did this creator God go? He's nowhere to be found now.
People used to believe that the creator of the universe was a person, just
like with a lot of things. Its time to leave those silly primitive concepts
behind.
We don't know exactly what the creator energy is and neither do you. So why
preach about it so fervently?
>
> And that Creation actually happened six to ten thousand years ago!
> http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/3040/
>
That's unrealistic, inevident and downright fantasmical. Where did you
religionists get that idea from?
Oh yes, *one* little verse in your Bible.
Barry OGrady
>I don't see how I can be delusional for conveying a scientific opinion
>expressed by a news article. You unnecessarily engage in ad hominem.
>
>Others have rightly observed your conduct has no grounding in reality
>and is laughable.
Dolt is talking about himself again.
=-=-=
Barry
http://members.iinet.net.au/~barry.og
Barry OGrady
>Enough said about the disclaimer for the referenced site...
Way too much said by you Dolt.
=-=-=
Barry
http://members.iinet.net.au/~barry.og
Barry OGrady
>I gave an alternative chronological perspective in my post which draws
>on the biblical cosmology as 'oth cycle and the Gregorian calendar.
No, you just posted your usual crap.
Barry
=====
Home page
http://members.iinet.net.au/~barry.og
Barry OGrady
>dolf wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>
>Certainly I have a valid point, several in fact:
>First is that you are delusional.
>Second is that God TOLD us how he created the Universe.
>Third is that He created a mature Chicken, mature cows, a mature Whale,
>mature trees, and a mature man in a mature universe -- which is now just
>about 7 thousand years old.
>My third valid point, is that the big bang universe and evolution are
>lies of Satan.
This is Gold! You should sell it to a stand up comedian.
>--
>Glenn
In My Fathers House
> Andrew W wrote:
> > "glenn" <gamccl...@spiritone.com> wrote in message
> >news:4b443718$0$86441$39ce...@news.twtelecom.net...
> >> dolf wrote:
> >>> Just saw the news item on the evening television news. It included
> >>> galaxies previously unseen.
> >> Yes, and each of them was created by God in His act of creation, and the
> >> light from each of them was created by God.
>
> > And God made it look like the universe is much older just to fool scientists
> > so they'll all end up in hell right?
>
> Now you make a false accusation against God?
No he is asking reasonable questions regarding your assertions.
> If God TOLD you He created a mature man in a mature universe, where is
> the lie?
Where did God tell us he created a universe that looks like it's over
a dozen of billions of years old when really it isn't? Why would God
make something look specifically like it was something it wasn't?
> The lie, Andrew, is in the pseudo science belief that the origin of all
> things MUST have been from the egg, from the seed, from the germ in the
> slime! The Lie, Andrew, is that God could NOT do as HE stated and create
> a mature man in a mature universe.
Proof? You hate proof. You hate evidence. That is why you call
scinece "pseudo science", and the "lie".
> If HE did as HE said HE did, then it is Satan and the "scientists" who
> are the liars!
When did God say he made our universe look over a dozen billion years
old when it isn't?
> It is the big bang cosmology which is the liar.
And it's author is God. Why do you worship the words of men and
reject the evidence from God?
In My Fathers House
If it was created by God then why would the light deceive us?
> Satan robs mankind of conceiving, perceiving, that the light of God's
> creation is visible to us to this very day!
Of course it's visible to this day. Why do you blame Satan for that?
In My Fathers House
> >news:4b441804$0$86445$39ce...@news.twtelecom.net...
> >> s...@ozemail.com.au wrote:
> >>> On Jan 6, 11:31 am, glenn wrote:
> >>>> dolf wrote:
> >>>>> Hubble Telescope peers back 13 billion years
> >>>> What utter crap!
>
> >>> The Hubble Law
> >>>http://creation.com/the-Hubble-Law
> >> Hubble, along with all others who believe in the 14 billion year old
> >> expanding universe, are deceived by Satan.
>
> > Do you realise how incredibly superstitious that sounds?
>
> You reject Truth and Reality to believe in delusion, and you talk about
> "superstition"?
Unlikely.
> Modern science (evolution) is based on the superstition of the ancient
> Babylonian priests who believed that life came from the sea! Look it up,
> if you have the courage!
You are completely off base. Some coincidence does not change the
fact that evolution is based on observations. If God created our
universe then that evidence is from God. Why do you worship the words
of men and reject evidence made by God?
> Modern science (astronomy) is based on the superstition of the ancient
> Babylonian priests who believed that the heavens were supported by an
> arch! Look it up, if you have the courage!
It's absurd. Why would you claim things so silly?
> http://www.thelittlebookopened.org/chapters/19bblsci.html
Propaganda?
Andrew W
> Andrew W wrote:
>> "glenn" <gamc...@spiritone.com> wrote in message
>> news:4b443718$0$86441$39ce...@news.twtelecom.net...
>>> dolf wrote:
>>>> Just saw the news item on the evening television news. It included
>>>> galaxies previously unseen.
>>> Yes, and each of them was created by God in His act of creation, and the
>>> light from each of them was created by God.
>>>
>>
>> And God made it look like the universe is much older just to fool
>> scientists so they'll all end up in hell right?
>
> Now you make a false accusation against God?
>
So why do you believe God would want to trick us with light?
>
> If God TOLD you He created a mature man in a mature universe, where is the
> lie?
>
What do you believe God told us? You mean the simplistic creation stories in
Genesis?
That was men much later writing about someone called God in the first person
to create an interesting story. That's how they used to write back then.
You are delusional if you think the Christian Bible is God actually talking.
Very few people still believe that old nonsense from the dark ages. There
must only be a few thousand now. If you believe that then you might as well
also believe that the earth is flat, because its from the same people. Why
are you still living in the first century?
>
> The lie, Andrew, is in the pseudo science belief that the origin of all
> things MUST have been from the egg, from the seed, from the germ in the
> slime! The Lie, Andrew, is that God could NOT do as HE stated and create a
> mature man in a mature universe.
>
Admit that you don't know how everything was formed and be honest and
sensible for a change.
Otherwise give me full technical details. One or the other.
>
> If HE did as HE said HE did, then it is Satan and the "scientists" who are
> the liars!
>
> It is the big bang cosmology which is the liar.
>
It can't be demonstrated that 'He' actually said anything, unless you want
to indulge in archaic religious fantasy.
Do you still believe that the sun and stars revolve around the earth?
Because if you don't (thanks to our scientists) then there's no reason to
keep believing the rest which came from the same place as the first.
Jude
>I wrote:
>> "dolf" <dolf...@grapple.id.au> wrote
>>
>>> Hubble Telescope peers back 13 billion years
>>>
>>> THE refurbished Hubble Space Telescope has set a new distance record by
>>> discovering the oldest galaxies ever seen, dating back 13 billion years,
>>> or 600-800 million years after the Big Bang, NASA said.
>>>
>>> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/hubble-telescope-peers-back-13-billion-years/story-fn3dxity-1225816488785
>>
>>
>> Yep! The creationist universe of a mere 6000 years pales in comparison
>> to the scientific fact.
>
> It's not a fact, it's a perversion of data to support a false theory.
>
>> The light from 13 billion years ago is reaching us through the Hubble
>> Space Telescope. See http://hubble.nasa.gov/
>
> Wrong Oh deceived one!
>
> The light which falls on your eyes from any greater distance than about
> (perhaps) 6.6 thousand years is light God Created.
>
> The light of God's creation is visible to you, EXCEPT that Satan has
> blinded your mind.
What a nice bow to wrap that delusion around your mind, Glenn. You've
completely created a way in which to not believe the realities around you.
It's just an illusion of Satan! That's rich!
theo
wrote:
> All you science buffs, tell me how a Telescope can be used to set up
> an experiment that shows the moment of the emergence of light -
> a given number of millions of years ago.
> A truly scientific experiment that is repeatable and testable,
>
> What is happening is that you know the speed of light and you
> calculate
> backwards. Is that the way you are working???
> BUT WHAT IF THERE WAS A CREATOR GOD WAY BACK THEN
> AND THAT CREATOR GOD WAS SO OMNIPOTENT THAT HE COULD SPEAK
> AND THE UNIVERSE APPEARED. EX NIHILO = OUT OF NOTHING!!!???
No amount of yelling will make it so Gladys.
> And that Creation actually happened six to ten thousand years ago!http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/3040/
And that is repeatable and testable? Then let's see him do it again.
I'm looking out my back window waiting for a new animal to suddenly
appear on my back lawn. Wow, there it is. Oh no, I saw that same
kookaburra yesterday. I know where he came from.
Theo
swa...@ozemail.com.au
> On Jan 6, 5:20 pm, swa...@ozemail.com.au wrote:
>
> > All you science buffs, tell me how a Telescope can be used to set up
> > an experiment that shows the moment of the emergence of light -
> > a given number of millions of years ago.
> > A truly scientific experiment that is repeatable and testable,
>
> > What is happening is that you know the speed of light and you
> > calculate
> > backwards. Is that the way you are working???
> > BUT WHAT IF THERE WAS A CREATOR GOD WAY BACK THEN
> > AND THAT CREATOR GOD WAS SO OMNIPOTENT THAT HE COULD SPEAK
> > AND THE UNIVERSE APPEARED. EX NIHILO = OUT OF NOTHING!!!???
>
> No amount of yelling will make it so Gladys.
>
capitalisation.
> > And that Creation actually happened six to ten thousand years ago!
> > http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/3040/
>
> And that is repeatable and testable? Then let's see him do it again.
> I'm looking out my back window waiting for a new animal to suddenly
> appear on my back lawn. Wow, there it is. Oh no, I saw that same
> kookaburra yesterday. I know where he came from.
>
No need for God to do it again for he gave animals and plants the
ability to procreate. But would say that when you see new growth
n your gardein in Springtime that it did come from God originally
or that it just came out of nothing?
However, calculations backwards from certain information gained from
the
Hubble telescope could just be speculations in the dark of outer
space.
Gladys Swager
I
>> Hubble Telescope peers back 13 billion years
>
> What utter crap!
The universe is at least 13 billion years old. This truth is confirmed by
science. A bible verse does not negate truth.
All truth is God's truth no matter where it is found.
All that is not truth is not true even if it is found in the bible.
--
MY BLOG - MARK T - my thoughts on Christianity & links
http://www.blognow.com.au/strooth/
MY SOUNDCLICK PAGE- download my original songs in mp3 format
http://www.soundclick.com/marktindall
I
>> The light which falls on your eyes from any greater distance than about
>> (perhaps) 6.6 thousand years is light God Created.
>
> So why did God deceive us?
Just the same reason that the cfreationist "god" apparently tricks
geologists by producing fossils that seem to be millions of years old.
Apparently the creationist "god" is more like the Norse god Loki - a
Trickster. ;-)
--
"Creationism is not the alternative to Evolution - ignorance is."
Visit No Answers in Genesis! http://www.noanswersingenesis.org.au/
I
>>> THE refurbished Hubble Space Telescope has set a new distance record by
>>> discovering the oldest galaxies ever seen, dating back 13 billion years,
>>> or 600-800 million years after the Big Bang, NASA said.
>>>
>>> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/hubble-telescope-peers-back-13-billion-years/story-fn3dxity-1225816488785
>>
>>
>> Yep! The creationist universe of a mere 6000 years pales in comparison
>> to the scientific fact.
>
> It's not a fact, it's a perversion of data to support a false theory.
Really? what SCIENTIFIC FACT do you have that contradictys the above????
>> The light from 13 billion years ago is reaching us through the Hubble
>> Space Telescope. See http://hubble.nasa.gov/
>
> Wrong Oh deceived one!
>
> The light which falls on your eyes from any greater distance than about
> (perhaps) 6.6 thousand years is light God Created.
So???? God also created the light from 3 billion years ago.
The bible does NOT give an age for the universe or for the earth.
Science DOES give an age for both the universe and the earth.
You have no facts that contradict the truth of science.
#######################################################
Many of the Christians who oppose Darwinism today are Calvinists, but Calvin
insisted that the bible was not a scientific document and that those who
wanted to learn about astronomy or cosmology should look elsewhere.- Karen
Armstrong "On The Bible" (Allen & Unwin:2007) p.223
####################################################
.
I
>>> Yep! The creationist universe of a mere 6000 years pales in comparison
>>> to the scientific fact.
>> It's not a fact, it's a perversion of data to support a false theory.
> Lol. Ah you Bible believers are such comedians. When are you going to
> come out of the dark ages and into the 21st century?
>>> The light from 13 billion years ago is reaching us through the Hubble
>>> Space Telescope. See http://hubble.nasa.gov/
>> Wrong Oh deceived one!
> You are the deceived one Mr. Bible believer.
>> The light which falls on your eyes from any greater distance than about
>> >> (perhaps) 6.6 thousand years is light God Created.
> <guffaw>!!!
> This is better than the comedy channel!
>> The light of God's creation is visible to you, EXCEPT that Satan has
>> blinded your mind.
> Hahahaha!!!
> This is priceless!
... and all the rational humans said "Amen!"
Please don't judage all Christians as supporting such creationist
ratbaggery.
I
> Second is that God TOLD us how he created the Universe.
Nope! God did no such thing!!!!
In 960 BCE the YAHWIST editor wrote Genesis 2 which contradicts what the
ELOHIST editor wrote in Genesis 1 in Samaria beginning 850 BCE.
NEITHER writer gave an age for the universe or the earth.
> Third is that He created a mature Chicken, mature cows, a mature Whale,
> mature trees, and a mature man in a mature universe -- which is now just
> about 7 thousand years old.
> My third valid point, is that the big bang universe and evolution are lies
> of Satan.
Prove it using scientific facts and not bible verses.
I
> As for delusion, read the Truth:
>
> 2 Thes 2:
You have quoted a human opinion written 80 -100 CE and whose author may not
be Paul.
It is not truth of any kind.
I
> Modern science (astronomy) is based on the superstition of the ancient
> Babylonian priests who believed that the heavens were supported by an >
> arch! Look it up, if you have the courage!
You MUST be joking!
Did you ever complete High School science?????
swa...@ozemail.com.au
> "glenn" wrote:
> >> Hubble Telescope peers back 13 billion years
>
> > What utter crap!
>
> The universe is at least 13 billion years old. This truth is confirmed by
> science. A bible verse does not negate truth.
> All truth is God's truth no matter where it is found.
> All that is not truth is not true even if it is found in the bible.
>
1. God created something out of nothing and He could do that because
of His omnipotence.
2. Nobody created something out of nothing! Ugh???!!!
What Creation Scientists say about Astronomy and Astrophysics.
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/3051/
The Hubble Law
http://creation.com/the-Hubble-Law
Astronomical problems
http://creation.com/astronomical-problems
Gladys Swager
In My Fathers House
> "glenn" wrote:
> > Modern science (astronomy) is based on the superstition of the ancient
> > Babylonian priests who believed that the heavens were supported by an >
> > arch! Look it up, if you have the courage!
>
> You MUST be joking!
>
> Did you ever complete High School science?????
That depends on the High School. In my H.S. Biology class I was able
to skip ~all~ dissections by writing a creationist paper. I got an
"A" on it too. I can't imagine why since at the time I knew nothing
about logic and from what little of it I can remember it was all over
the place. I attacked radio carbon dating, asserted that humans were
contemporary to the T-rex and other similar nonsense. I believe it
was before the ID movement was in full swing. I was pushing pure
creationism.
In My Fathers House
wrote:
> On Jan 7, 11:03 am, theo wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jan 6, 5:20 pm, swa...@ozemail.com.au wrote:
>
> > > All you science buffs, tell me how a Telescope can be used to set up
> > > an experiment that shows the moment of the emergence of light -
> > > a given number of millions of years ago.
> > > A truly scientific experiment that is repeatable and testable,
>
> > > What is happening is that you know the speed of light and you
> > > calculate
> > > backwards. Is that the way you are working???
> > > BUT WHAT IF THERE WAS A CREATOR GOD WAY BACK THEN
> > > AND THAT CREATOR GOD WAS SO OMNIPOTENT THAT HE COULD SPEAK
> > > AND THE UNIVERSE APPEARED. EX NIHILO = OUT OF NOTHING!!!???
>
> > No amount of yelling will make it so Gladys.
>
> i was feeling at the end of my tether in this debate, Hence the
> capitalisation.
That feeling you got was from trying to pass religion off as if it
were science. You are free to worship any way you like and have any
belief you wish but IMO it works better to separate the two
disciplines. Let science deal with what the evidence shows us and let
religion deal with what is beyond evidence.
> > > And that Creation actually happened six to ten thousand years ago!
> > >http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/3040/
>
> > And that is repeatable and testable? Then let's see him do it again.
> > I'm looking out my back window waiting for a new animal to suddenly
> > appear on my back lawn. Wow, there it is. Oh no, I saw that same
> > kookaburra yesterday. I know where he came from.
>
> No need for God to do it again for he gave animals and plants the
> ability to procreate.
In other words you can't repeat it or test for it.
> But would say that when you see new growth
> n your gardein in Springtime that it did come from God originally
> or that it just came out of nothing?
That it evolved does not mean God did not put evolution into motion.
> However, calculations backwards from certain information gained from
> the
> Hubble telescope could just be speculations in the dark of outer
> space.
They are conjecture based on the known facts.
God bless,
House
theo
wrote:
Gladys, you need to get your head out of the sand.
Theo
dolf
physics and this is a problem when the light of these galaxies which
occur so far back (ie billon of years) are made illogically to fit the
shorter creation time capsulation (ie 6,000 years).
On 7/01/10 12:59 PM, theo wrote:
> On Jan 7, 8:21 am, "s...@ozemail.com.au"<swa...@ozemail.com.au>
> wrote:
>>
>>>> What is happening is that you know the speed of light and you
>>>> calculate
>>>> backwards. Is that the way you are working???
>>>> BUT WHAT IF THERE WAS A CREATOR GOD WAY BACK THEN
>>>> AND THAT CREATOR GOD WAS SO OMNIPOTENT THAT HE COULD SPEAK
>>>> AND THE UNIVERSE APPEARED. EX NIHILO = OUT OF NOTHING!!!???
>>
>
Andrew W
> Andrew W wrote:
>> "glenn" <gamc...@spiritone.com> wrote in message
>> news:4b441804$0$86445$39ce...@news.twtelecom.net...
>>> s...@ozemail.com.au wrote:
>>>> On Jan 6, 11:31 am, glenn wrote:
>>>>> dolf wrote:
>>>>>> Hubble Telescope peers back 13 billion years
>>>>> What utter crap!
>>>>>
>>>> The Hubble Law
>>>> http://creation.com/the-Hubble-Law
>>> Hubble, along with all others who believe in the 14 billion year old
>>> expanding universe, are deceived by Satan.
>>>
>>
>> Do you realise how incredibly superstitious that sounds?
>
> You reject Truth and Reality to believe in delusion, and you talk about
> "superstition"?
>
You are describing yourself. Ask any academic.
It is plainly you who are delusional.
>
> Modern science (evolution) is based on the superstition of the ancient
> Babylonian priests who believed that life came from the sea! Look it up,
> if you have the courage!
>
> Modern science (astronomy) is based on the superstition of the ancient
> Babylonian priests who believed that the heavens were supported by an
> arch! Look it up, if you have the courage!
>
> http://www.thelittlebookopened.org/chapters/19bblsci.html
>
That page contains a lot of reasonings and semantics.
And we know very little about what the Babylonians believed because it was
so long ago, so its a bit dishonest to try to use them to impress your
point.
If you want to condemn all scientists then you will also have to condemn
Einstein. But that's not going to be so easy now because of the universally
accepted achievements he made in science and the understanding of the
universe.
glenn
I believe the _realities_ -- I can walk through the mountains and see
the same geologic layers in the rocks as the geologist. I can look into
the heavens and see the same light and galaxies the astronomers see.
It is the false interpretation of those realities and the false theories
and lies which I reject.
--
Glenn
.
"Don't let your mind be cluttered with prevailing doctrine."
Alexander Fleming
.
glenn
> "glenn" wrote:
>
>>>> THE refurbished Hubble Space Telescope has set a new distance record by
>>>> discovering the oldest galaxies ever seen, dating back 13 billion years,
>>>> or 600-800 million years after the Big Bang, NASA said.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/hubble-telescope-peers-back-13-billion-years/story-fn3dxity-1225816488785
>>>
>>> Yep! The creationist universe of a mere 6000 years pales in comparison
>>> to the scientific fact.
>> It's not a fact, it's a perversion of data to support a false theory.
>
>
> Really? what SCIENTIFIC FACT do you have that contradictys the above????
>
>
>>> The light from 13 billion years ago is reaching us through the Hubble
>>> Space Telescope. See http://hubble.nasa.gov/
>> Wrong Oh deceived one!
>>
>> The light which falls on your eyes from any greater distance than about
>> (perhaps) 6.6 thousand years is light God Created.
>
> So???? God also created the light from 3 billion years ago.
>
> The bible does NOT give an age for the universe or for the earth.
Sure it does. "There was evening and morning, one day."
God created a mature man in a mature universe in SIX days and rested on
the SEVENTH day.
glenn
> "glenn" wrote:
>
>>> Hubble Telescope peers back 13 billion years
>> What utter crap!
>
>
> The universe is at least 13 billion years old.
That is a lie of Satan.
> This truth is confirmed by science.
The "science" of the big bang expanding universe is the same kind of
delusion as the Babylonian Vault of the Heavens and the Greek's crystal
spheres -- delusion brought by Satan upon men who refuse to believe the
Truth of God's Word.
I
>> Did you ever complete High School science?????
>
> That depends on the High School. In my H.S. Biology class I was able
> to skip ~all~ dissections by writing a creationist paper. I got an
> "A" on it too
Egad! Thankfully NSW, Australia has a mandatory basic curriculum that must
be taught in any school - even Christian Schools. Admittedly it is very
basic but evolutioon and the age of the earth and universe are part of it.
I
> Gladys seems to be presupposing that ex nihilo some how occurs outside
> physics and this is a problem when the light of these galaxies which occur
> so far back (ie billon of years) are made illogically to fit the shorter
> creation time capsulation (ie 6,000 years).
The huge problem with creationism on this matter is that the galaxy that is
6 billion light years away has light reaching us supposedly can be no more
than 6000 years. That means though the distance may be accurate an optical
allusion has to be created by God so that the light from the galaxy six
billion light years away is created at the same time as the galaxy at a
point 6000 light years away from us so that we can see and measure it. That
is:
X galaxy ................................Y creation of light we see
................ Z us
(6 billion light years away) .......(6 thousand light years away) ....
(present)
X & Y are created at the same time so that we assume X is 6 billion light
years away and therefore created 6 billion years ago whereas (in creationist
"fact") X is only created 6000 years ago the same as Y.
As I stated before, this makes God out to be like the Norse god Loki - a
Trickster. I see no possible reason why God would want to fool people in
this manner.
Creationism is all about a naive literalist reading of bible verses and is
not in any shape or form similar to real science. No Science Academy in the
world acknowledges Creationism / Intelligent Design (same thing) as science.
In My Fathers House
> "In My Fathers House" wrote:
>
> >> Did you ever complete High School science?????
>
> > That depends on the High School. In my H.S. Biology class I was able
> > to skip ~all~ dissections by writing a creationist paper. I got an
> > "A" on it too
>
> Egad! Thankfully NSW, Australia has a mandatory basic curriculum that must
> be taught in any school - even Christian Schools. Admittedly it is very
> basic but evolutioon and the age of the earth and universe are part of it.
I'll have you to know that the United States offers education
standards which are better than the standards for half of Africa.
Seriously though it does make me wonder what happens in US Christian
colleges.
theo
> On Jan 6, 8:28 pm, "I" <itsme@home000000000000044> wrote:
> > Egad! Thankfully NSW, Australia has a mandatory basic curriculum that must
> > be taught in any school - even Christian Schools. Admittedly it is very
> > basic but evolutioon and the age of the earth and universe are part of it.
>
> I'll have you to know that the United States offers education
> standards which are better than the standards for half of Africa.
Which half?
Theo
In My Fathers House
Well, the less developed half of course.
Andrew W
That was quite obviously a simplistic story written by an elder to answer
primitive peoples questions.
You think that was actually dictated by God about him knocking up the
universe in six 24hr days? Lol.
Well you can believe that if you like - if you don't mind being laughed at
for the rest of your life.
I
>> The universe is at least 13 billion years old.
>
> That is a lie of Satan.
PROVE:
1. That it is a lie.
2. That it is "of Satan".
>> This truth is confirmed by science.
>
> The "science" of the big bang expanding universe is the same kind of
> delusion as the Babylonian Vault of the Heavens and the Greek's crystal >
> spheres
Utter unscientific nonsense! Contemporary astronomy and cosmology bear NO
resemblance at all to what little is known about the ancient Babylonians and
to what the ancient Greeks thought. It is like comparing Jesus' method of
"curing" epilepsy (by excorcism) with today's medicines that control
epilepsy. The two are NOT related.
> -- delusion brought by Satan upon men who refuse to believe the Truth of
> God's Word.
The Bible NEVER gives an age for the universe or for the Earth.
You have yet to give ONE PIECE OF SCIENTIFIC FACT to back up your
fundamentalist creationist man-made dogma.
I
>> The bible does NOT give an age for the universe or for the earth.
>
> Sure it does. "There was evening and morning, one day."
1. That is NOT a sientific fact but a MYTH. You are reading MYTHOS as though
it were LOGOS.
2. A night and day (Genesis 1:3) CANNOT happen without a Sun (which the
Earth circles) but the Sun is not created until Genesis 1:14 - THREE DAYS
LATER!!!! Please explain using scientific fact and not merely bible verses.
2. Genesis 1 is FULL of scientific errors. My comments in *[...]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
from http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/jps/gen001.htm (Jewish Publication
Society)
1 IN the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 Now the earth was
unformed and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the
spirit of God hovered over the face of the waters.
*[HOW can there be water when the earth is not yet created?????? HOW can the
Earth be created BEFORE the sun and stars. WHERE did the "waters" come
from????]
3 And God said: 'Let there be light.' And there was light. 4 And God saw the
light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And
God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. And there was
evening and there was morning, one day.
*[HOW there be light without the sun or any stars? HOW can there be night
and day without a Sun and an Earth that rotates to cause the day and night?
The sun is not created until verse 14]
6 And God said: 'Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and
let it divide the waters from the waters.' 7 And God made the firmament, and
divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were
above the firmament; and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven.
And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.
*[ How can Heaven be created AFTER water is created????]
9 And God said: 'Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto
one place, and let the dry land appear.' And it was so. 10 And God called
the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters called He Seas;
and God saw that it was good. 11 And God said: 'Let the earth put forth
grass, herb yielding seed, and fruit-tree bearing fruit after its kind,
wherein is the seed thereof, upon the earth.' And it was so. 12 And the
earth brought forth grass, herb yielding seed after its kind, and tree
bearing fruit, wherein is the seed thereof, after its kind; and God saw that
it was good. 13 And there was evening and there was morning, a third day.
*[ HOW can vegetation exist without sunlight which is not created until the
next verse???? HOW does pollination happen without bees which are not
created yet?????]
14 And God said: 'Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to
divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons,
and for days and years; 15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of
the heaven to give light upon the earth.' And it was so. 16 And God made the
two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to
rule the night; and the stars. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the
heaven to give light upon the earth, 18 and to rule over the day and over
the night, and to divide the light from the darkness; and God saw that it
was good. 19 And there was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.
*[The moon is not a "light" but reflects the light of the sun. How can stars
be formed AFTER vegeatation on Earth?????]
20 And God said: 'Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and
let fowl fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.' 21 And God
created the great sea-monsters, and every living creature that creepeth,
wherewith the waters swarmed, after its kind, and every winged fowl after
its kind; and God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying: 'Be
fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl
multiply in the earth.' 23 And there was evening and there was morning, a
fifth day.p. 4
*[ Birds are created BEFORE land animals.]
24 And God said: 'Let the earth bring forth the living creature after its
kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after its kind.'
And it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth after its kind, and
the cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the ground
after its kind; and God saw that it was good. 26 And God said: 'Let us make
man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the
fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over
all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.'
27 And God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him;
male and female created He them. 28 And God blessed them; and God said unto
them: 'Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it;
and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air,
and over every living thing that creepeth upon the earth.' 29 And God said:
'Behold, I have given you every herb yielding seed, which is upon the face
of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding
seed-to you it shall be for food; 30 and to every beast of the earth, and to
every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth,
wherein there is a living soul, [I have given] every green herb for food.'
And it was so. 31 And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it
was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.
*[ EVERY plan is "food" - which means all POISONOUS plants must also be
food.... or did the poisonous plants evolve later?????]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
glenn
> "glenn" wrote:
>
>
>>> The bible does NOT give an age for the universe or for the earth.
>> Sure it does. "There was evening and morning, one day."
>
>
> 1. That is NOT a sientific
LOL! Of COURSE it's not "scientific" ... It's TRUTH!
--
Glenn
.
Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.
Solomon
.
glenn
> "glenn" wrote:
>
>>> The universe is at least 13 billion years old.
>> That is a lie of Satan.
>
> PROVE:
> 1. That it is a lie.
If...
a) It contradicts God's word
b) it makes God a liar
...then it is a lie
> 2. That it is "of Satan".
c) Satan is the father of lies
d) All that contradicts God's word is "of Satan."
The Christian elephant in the room
>I wrote:
>> "glenn" wrote:
>>
>>>> Hubble Telescope peers back 13 billion years
>>> What utter crap!
>>
>>
>> The universe is at least 13 billion years old.
>
> That is a lie of Satan.
>
>
>> This truth is confirmed by science.
>
> The "science" of the big bang expanding universe is the same kind of
> delusion as the Babylonian Vault of the Heavens and the Greek's crystal
> spheres -- delusion brought by Satan upon men who refuse to believe the
> Truth of God's Word.
>
Do you still believe that the world is flat and the center of the universe?
If not then why not?
In My Fathers House
> I wrote:
> > "glenn" wrote:
>
> >>> The universe is at least 13 billion years old.
> >> That is a lie of Satan.
>
> > PROVE:
> > 1. That it is a lie.
>
> If...
> a) It contradicts God's word
> b) it makes God a liar
> ...then it is a lie
"God's word" is what people call the word of some men about God. It
contradicts itself. It makes God out to be a liar. You have nothing.
> > 2. That it is "of Satan".
>
> c) Satan is the father of lies
> d) All that contradicts God's word is "of Satan."
It all boils down to you have a belief. What makes your belief right
and other beliefs wrong?
The Christian elephant in the room
>I wrote:
>> "glenn" wrote:
>>
>>>> The universe is at least 13 billion years old.
>>> That is a lie of Satan.
>>
>> PROVE:
>> 1. That it is a lie.
>
> If...
> a) It contradicts God's word
> b) it makes God a liar
> ...then it is a lie
>
>> 2. That it is "of Satan".
>
> c) Satan is the father of lies
> d) All that contradicts God's word is "of Satan."
>
How do you know that what's written in the Bible is man's word or God's
word?
The answer is you don't, you just believe its God's word.
There is no way to know for sure, and very few people today believe it the
way you do.
So why do you pretend that its absolute concrete known fact?
I
'
>>>> The universe is at least 13 billion years old.
>>> That is a lie of Satan.
>>
>> PROVE:
>> 1. That it is a lie.
>
> If...
> a) It contradicts God's word
> b) it makes God a liar
> ...then it is a lie
The bible NEVER calls the WHOLE of it's text "God's Word". The Bible is a
human construct of people's experience of God.
>> 2. That it is "of Satan".
>
> c) Satan is the father of lies
> d) All that contradicts God's word is "of Satan."
Since science doesn't lie, the Bible is a man-made construct that NEVER
calls itself "God's Word" and the Bible NEVER gives an age for the universe
then the universe's age of 13 billion years cannot be "of Satan".
You are proven wrong on both accounts.
Of course, you will try to demonstrate that the bible is "God's Word". How?
By quoting a forgery such as 1 Timothy 3:16 which was written 100 - 160 CE
when Paul was DEAD and only refers to the Old Testament? (The canon of the
Bible had not yet been formed.) Does "God's Word" include FORGERIES? Does
"God's Word" include MULTIPLE contradictory endings to mark's gospel? (Which
is the ONE and ONLY true ending to Mark's gospel???)
Then you have the problem that your theory contradicts everything known by
science. Is science "of Satan"? Are you willing to refuse all medical help
made possible because of such science????
I
> How do you know that what's written in the Bible is man's word or God's
> word?
It has "Thus sayeth the Lord" before it. ;-)
That's a bit of a problem with Genesis 1 as it DOESN'T have "Thus sayeth the
Lord" as a preface.
Genesis 1 was also written 850 BCE by the ELOHIST Editor AFTER Genesis 2
(960 BCE by the YAHWIST Editor.)
glenn
God didn't say the world is flat.
You are not proving God wrong, YOU ARE PROVING THE SCIENCE OF THEIR DAY
WRONG!!!! The ancient Babylonians were wrong! The ancient Greeks were
Wrong! Now the modern scientists who inherited their beliefs from the
Babylonian and Greeks are just as wrong!
How do you know the Earth is not the center of the universe?
You believe the BIG BANG is the center of the universe, right?
LOL!
Let me tell you something, if I may.
Right now, Hubble can see to the apparent edge of the universe in EVERY
direction it looks! And THAT proves that the earth IS in the center of
the universe!
Now, YOU go to NASA or HUBBLE, or _wherever_ your get your version of
reality, and YOU get them to tell you that they can see the edge of the
universe in SOME direction (any direction) which proves that the earth
is NOT at the center of the universe.
You can't do it.
I
>> Do you still believe that the world is flat and the center of the
>> universe?
>> If not then why not?
>
> God didn't say the world is flat.
The BIBLE (which ISN'T the "Word of God") says that the earth is FLAT. I
quote:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Isaiah 40:22, "the circle of the earth"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A circle is FLAT and NOT spherical!
The Hebrew definitely means a FLAT circle and NOT a sphere.
IF the Bible is "God's Word" then the earth MUST be FLAT.
... or the Bible is wrong. ;-)
> How do you know the Earth is not the center of the universe?
Science.
> Right now, Hubble can see to the apparent edge of the universe in EVERY
> direction it looks! And THAT proves that the earth IS in the center of the
> universe!
Nope! The Earth is on the EDGE of a galaxy known as the Milky Way. We are
not even in the CENTRE of our own galaxy!!!!
See our sun's position in the milky Way at
http://www.danielsevo.com/astronomy/gfx/MilkyWay_relativepos1.jpg
Note that our galaxy is 100 000 light years across.
The Christian elephant in the room
> The Christian elephant in the room wrote:
>> "glenn" <gamc...@spiritone.com> wrote in message
>> news:4b454d94$0$52306$39ce...@news.twtelecom.net...
>>> I wrote:
>>>
>>>> This truth is confirmed by science.
>>> The "science" of the big bang expanding universe is the same kind of
>>> delusion as the Babylonian Vault of the Heavens and the Greek's crystal
>>> spheres -- delusion brought by Satan upon men who refuse to believe the
>>> Truth of God's Word.
>>>
>>
>> Do you still believe that the world is flat and the center of the
>> universe?
>> If not then why not?
>>
>>
>
> God didn't say the world is flat.
>
Yet your lot millennia ago believed it as emphatically as the other things
that you for some reason still cling to.
Why toss out some ancient beliefs but keep others?
>
> You are not proving God wrong, YOU ARE PROVING THE SCIENCE OF THEIR DAY
> WRONG!!!! The ancient Babylonians were wrong! The ancient Greeks were
> Wrong! Now the modern scientists who inherited their beliefs from the
> Babylonian and Greeks are just as wrong!
>
So everyone's wrong except you and your beliefs about the Bible. The
Babylonians? The Greeks? Science? Everyone except you.
Gee you must be smart. You and your home Bible interpreters must be the
smartest people in the world, eh? :-)
>
>
> How do you know the Earth is not the center of the universe?
>
There's no way to know either way.
>
> You believe the BIG BANG is the center of the universe, right?
>
> LOL!
>
Unless it was a very lopsided expansion. :-)
But the big bang doesn't determine where we are.
>
> Let me tell you something, if I may.
> Right now, Hubble can see to the apparent edge of the universe in EVERY
> direction it looks! And THAT proves that the earth IS in the center of the
> universe!
>
"edge of the universe" in this context is an expression/euphemism.
We don't actually know where or what the edge of the universe is.
I don't think there's a wall there, so how would you know if you're looking
at an edge or not?
Honestly, your thought processes seem to be like that of a teenager.
>
> Now, YOU go to NASA or HUBBLE, or _wherever_ your get your version of
> reality, and YOU get them to tell you that they can see the edge of the
> universe in SOME direction (any direction) which proves that the earth is
> NOT at the center of the universe.
>
> You can't do it.
>
The specific ancient belief was that the stars all revolved around the
earth, not so much that we are just roughly at the center of the whole
thing. And this stars revolving around us was a religious belief as well by
your group.
So, do you still believe that?
If not then why?
Barry OGrady
wrote:
What a great act. How long can you keep it up?
>--
>Glenn
=-=-=
Barry
http://members.iinet.net.au/~barry.og
Barry OGrady
I think Glenn is playing a game.
Nobody could be as stupid as he makes out.
=-=-=
Barry
http://members.iinet.net.au/~barry.og
glenn
> "glenn" wrote:
>
>>> Do you still believe that the world is flat and the center of the
>>> universe?
>>> If not then why not?
>> God didn't say the world is flat.
>
>
> The BIBLE (which ISN'T the "Word of God") says that the earth is FLAT. I
> quote:
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Isaiah 40:22, "the circle of the earth"
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> A circle is FLAT and NOT spherical!
You grasp at straws!
glenn
> "glenn" <gamc...@spiritone.com> wrote in message
> news:4b457dcb$0$52305$39ce...@news.twtelecom.net...
>> The Christian elephant in the room wrote:
>>> "glenn" <gamc...@spiritone.com> wrote in message
>>> news:4b454d94$0$52306$39ce...@news.twtelecom.net...
>>>> I wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This truth is confirmed by science.
>>>> The "science" of the big bang expanding universe is the same kind of
>>>> delusion as the Babylonian Vault of the Heavens and the Greek's crystal
>>>> spheres -- delusion brought by Satan upon men who refuse to believe the
>>>> Truth of God's Word.
>>>>
>>> Do you still believe that the world is flat and the center of the
>>> universe?
>>> If not then why not?
>>>
>>>
>> God didn't say the world is flat.
>>
>
What?
What in the world ever gave you the idea that "your lot" ever believed
the same kind of delusions believed by the Babylonians, Greeks and Roman
Catholic Church?
Modern science IS based on the ancient myths of the Babylonians and Greeks!
Life came from the sea?
Vaulted heavens?
became the...
Crystal spheres of the heavens?
which has become...
Curved Space Time of modern "science" ???
Delusion!
glenn
> "glenn" wrote:
> '
>>>>> The universe is at least 13 billion years old.
>>>> That is a lie of Satan.
>>> PROVE:
>>> 1. That it is a lie.
>> If...
>> a) It contradicts God's word
>> b) it makes God a liar
>> ...then it is a lie
>
> The bible NEVER calls the WHOLE of it's text "God's Word".
Nor did I.
I simply said, that God said... "Let there be light."
God created Light AFTER He created Substance.
swa...@ozemail.com.au
> "glenn" wrote:
> >>>> The universe is at least 13 billion years old.
> >>> That is a lie of Satan.
>
> The bible NEVER calls the WHOLE of it's text "God's Word". The Bible is a
> human construct of people's experience of God.
>
The Bible is a collection of various typs of writing,
It is history of the forbears of Israelite people amd their
descendents.
It is a theological-history (never used that tern before) of God's
dealings with
them that brought the Jewish people to the time of Jesus Christ and
shortly after.
.
> Since science doesn't lie,
But scientists can come to wrong decisions in their study of the
scientific
world.
the Bible is a man-made construct that NEVER
> calls itself "God's Word" and the Bible NEVER gives an age for the universe
> then the universe's age of 13 billion years cannot be "of Satan".
>
It does not give an age of millions of years. The internal dating (in
the Bible
together with known time after the Bible wa written
would indicate an age of six thousand to 10 thousand years for the
world.
.
>
> Of course, you will try to demonstrate that the bible is "God's Word". How?
> By quoting a forgery such as 1 Timothy 3:16 which was written 100 - 160 CE
> when Paul was DEAD and only refers to the Old Testament? (The canon of the
> Bible had not yet been formed.)
1 Timothy 3 : 16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of
angels,
preached to the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into
glory,
How can you say that is a forgery?
Does "God's Word" include FORGERIES? Does
> "God's Word" include MULTIPLE contradictory endings to Mark's gospel? (Which
> is the ONE and ONLY true ending to Mark's gospel???)
>
What are the contradictory endings to Mark's gospel?
Mark 16 : 14 - 18 and Mark 16 : 19 - 20
> Then you have the problem that your theory contradicts everything known by
> science. Is science "of Satan"? Are you willing to refuse all medical help
> made possible because of such science????
>
If I knew the 'medical help' was not the best for me, yes. I would
refuse it.
In 1928 liver was discovered to be a help for Anaemia.
But a liver diet can become very sickening. I have been told of one
such young
woman who reached the stage when she refused to eat any more liver and
subsequently died. Then a Liver extract was discovered.
I was diagnosed with Anaemia and treated with it from 1948,
In 1975 I was given Vitamin B12
by injection for a time. I have not had to be treated for Anaemia
since.
Science is not of Satan. But it takes times to develop newer and
better treatments
as what were thought to be possible treatments are tested, confirmed
for their
effectiveness or found to be less successful than originally
aniticipated.
Medical researchers could be said to be doing one of the greater
things that
Jesus told His followers they would do (John 14 : 12) that is by
finding
causes, cures and preventitive means for the illnesses that can
afflict humans.
Gladys Swager
glenn
> "glenn" wrote:
>
>>> 2. That it is "of Satan".
>> c) Satan is the father of lies
>> d) All that contradicts God's word is "of Satan."
>
> Since science doesn't lie,
"Science" doesn't lie, but God does lie.
Oh, how utterly sad.
Mark, what you call "science" is the art, practice and theories of MEN!
Is "Science" some kind of God?
Is "Science some kind of god which is INCAPABLE of a lie?
No, No, and a thousand times NO!
"Science" is the practice and art and theories of MEN!
"Science" is not an infallible god, was NOT created as a god, nor was it
created BY God to be INFALLIBLE!!!!
WHAT!
MARK, PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND SAYING!!!!!!!!!!
Are you saying that "Science" is less fallible than the POPE?
The pope is fallible, but "Science" is NOT?
MARK, ARE YOU SO IGNORANT THAT YOU ARE COMPLETELY UNAWARE OF THE ERRORS
(LIES) OF SCIENCE OVER THE LAST 50 YEARS?
MARK, ARE YOU SO DELUSIONAL THAT YOU DENY THE ERRORS (LIES) OF SCIENCE
OVER THE LAST 100 YEARS???
MARK, ARE YOU TELLING ME THAT "SCIENCE" IS PERFECT, NEVER MAKING A
MISTAKE, NEVER BEEN IN ERROR, AND THAT SOME MAN POSING AS A SCIENTIST
HAS NOT LIED!!!!!!????????
MARK, THE THEORY OF THE 14 BILLION YEAR OLD EXPANDING UNIVERSE IS A LIE!
Andrew W
>I wrote:
>> "glenn" wrote:
>> '
>>>>>> The universe is at least 13 billion years old.
>>>>> That is a lie of Satan.
>>>> PROVE:
>>>> 1. That it is a lie.
>>> If...
>>> a) It contradicts God's word
>>> b) it makes God a liar
>>> ...then it is a lie
>>
>> The bible NEVER calls the WHOLE of it's text "God's Word".
>
> Nor did I.
>
> I simply said, that God said... "Let there be light."
>
If not all of the Bible is God's word then how do you know which parts are
and which aren't?
Barry OGrady
That's easy. The parts that fit with your indoctrination are God's
word.
=-=-=
Barry
http://members.iinet.net.au/~barry.og
I
>> Of course, you will try to demonstrate that the bible is "God's Word". >>
>> How? By quoting a forgery such as 1 Timothy 3:16 which was written >>
>> 100 - 160 CE when Paul was DEAD and only refers to the Old
>> Testament? (The canon of the Bible had not yet been formed.)
>
> 1 Timothy 3 : 16
....
> How can you say that is a forgery?
Mea culpa! 2 Timothy 3:16.
Still a forgery. See http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/2timothy.html
> What are the contradictory endings to Mark's gospel?
> Mark 16 : 14 - 18 and Mark 16 : 19 - 20
Verse 9 onwards which vary according to which translation you use.
See http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/mark.html
Barry OGrady
wrote:
>I wrote:
>> "glenn" wrote:
>>
>>>> Do you still believe that the world is flat and the center of the
>>>> universe?
>>>> If not then why not?
>>> God didn't say the world is flat.
>>
>>
>> The BIBLE (which ISN'T the "Word of God") says that the earth is FLAT. I
>> quote:
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>> Isaiah 40:22, "the circle of the earth"
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>> A circle is FLAT and NOT spherical!
>
>You grasp at straws!
He should grasp at the flat earth with four corners and pillars.
>--
>Glenn
Keep up your comedy act but watch out for the guys in the white coats.
=-=-=
Barry
http://members.iinet.net.au/~barry.og
Barry OGrady
wrote:
The sun god became the son of god.
Andrew W
> On Jan 7, 5:13 pm, "I" wrote:
>> "glenn" wrote:
>
>> Since science doesn't lie,
>
> But scientists can come to wrong decisions in their study of the
> scientific world.
>
So can theologians about God and the world.
>
> the Bible is a man-made construct that NEVER
>> calls itself "God's Word" and the Bible NEVER gives an age for the
>> universe then the universe's age of 13 billion years cannot be "of
>> Satan".
>>
> It does not give an age of millions of years. The internal dating (in
> the Bible
> together with known time after the Bible wa written
> would indicate an age of six thousand to 10 thousand years for the
> world.
>
The Bible doesn't give any kind of timeline mechanism whatsoever. Its just
frivolous guesswork by two or three zealous theologians in the early
centuries. I've seen their names somewhere but can't remember where. They
made the calculations.
You cannot calculate a timeline from a book that has texts of undetermined
age, e.g.Genesis.
You believers also assume that Genesis was written the moment creation was
completed. But obviously the texts came much later when language and writing
was invented, which makes gauging the age of creation by surmising and
haphazardly adding up the age of texts and events senseless and ridiculous.
>>
>> Of course, you will try to demonstrate that the bible is "God's
>> Word". How? By quoting a forgery such as 1 Timothy 3:16 which was
>> written 100 - 160 CE when Paul was DEAD and only refers to the Old
>> Testament? (The canon of the Bible had not yet been formed.)
>
> 1 Timothy 3 : 16
> And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
> God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of
> angels,
> preached to the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into
> glory,
>
> How can you say that is a forgery?
>
Are you going only on the lovely spiritual poetry of it? There were great
spiritual poets in the early centuries who had lots and lots of time on
their hands. The world wasn't always as busy as it is now.
In My Fathers House
[...]
> Modern science IS based on the ancient myths of the Babylonians and Greeks!
>
> Life came from the sea?
>
> Vaulted heavens?
> became the...
> Crystal spheres of the heavens?
> which has become...
> Curved Space Time of modern "science" ???
>
> Delusion!
The irony is getting thick.
swa...@ozemail.com.au
> "s...@ozemail.com.au" wrote:
> >> Of course, you will try to demonstrate that the bible is "God's Word". >>
> >> How? By quoting a forgery such as 1 Timothy 3:16 which was written >>
> >> 100 - 160 CE when Paul was DEAD and only refers to the Old
> >> Testament? (The canon of the Bible had not yet been formed.)
>
> > 1 Timothy 3 : 16
> ....
> > How can you say that is a forgery?
>
>http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/2timothy.html
>
> > What are the contradictory endings to Mark's gospel?
> > Mark 16 : 14 - 18 and Mark 16 : 19 - 20
>
> Verse 9 onwards which vary according to which translation you use.
> Seehttp://www.earlychristianwritings.com/mark.html
That is an in-depth study that will take some time.
But it is diversionary,
I refer to another posting I have made that Genesis 7 gives
a chronology of the patriarchs with overlapping ages so that
an oral transmission would be kept correct up to the time
of Noah's Flood
http;//www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/3000/
.
The question at present is whether with the Hubble telescope
men can peer back into time and calculate the age of the Universe
to be 13 billion years.
http://creation.com/the-Hubble-law
http://creation.com/astronomical-problems
The teaching of Evolution to all Secondary students from 1962,
as far as I was aware of it then and in the later years up
to 1975, was done very low-key. That was the period in which I was
Teaching Mistress at two Western Sydney suburbs Infants Departments.
There may have be reasons for the lack of media announcements.
ie that it was not thought to be of general public interest OR
it just was not thought to make such an announcement.
It was in 1974 that I had access to some information that gave the
attributes of living organisms and the one that caught my attention
was
that living things can procreate and from that I reasoned that a
supernatural
Being had to initiate (create) the process. That I was told later by
a
Church of England minister was how Anslem, Archbishop of Canterbury
(England) in 12th Cenntury, had reasoned.
But there is one thing for sure - those who have indoctrinated the
children
from that time (now all adults aged about 60 years and under) were
taught,,
and childred continue to be taught Evolutionary theory as a fact.
What was the proof in 1972? What is the proof now in the 21st
Century?
I have not seen any real proof in the High School texts to which I
have had
access in my Tutoring programme (now closed).
Gladys Swager
The Christian elephant in the room
Evolutionary theory is not perfect, granted. It is ok to poke holes in it
because nothing is perfect in this world. Peer reviewers usually do that
anyway.
But human science is still a lot more sensible than holding a Bible and
hollering "This is the Word of God"!!! and declaring a book to be perfect
and infallible over everything.
The Christian elephant in the room
> I wrote:
>> "glenn" wrote:
>>
>
>>>> 2. That it is "of Satan".
>>> c) Satan is the father of lies
>>> d) All that contradicts God's word is "of Satan."
>>
>> Since science doesn't lie,
>
> "Science" doesn't lie, but God does lie.
>
Your book version of God, yes.
Texts can, and have been changed by humans to say what they want to say.
This we know.
>
>
> Oh, how utterly sad.
>
Yes it is. That's the kind of world we live in. You can't escape from that
through religious fantasies. That's why you have to study and develop your
discernment to find the truth, not just read one convenient and perfect book
to get all the answers to life.
>
> Mark, what you call "science" is the art, practice and theories of
> MEN!
Everything in this world is inevitably of men. However sometimes men are
inspired to put out great wisdoms, and those inspirations are not limited to
times when the scriptures were written, and not just in one area and one
religion. Yes science has made mistakes, but so have theologians.
The Christian elephant in the room
I didn't say that your lot believed what the Babylonians etc. believed.
What your early Christians believed was the religious crap about a young
earth, flat earth, and stars revolving around us.
But you have thrown out the flat earth and stars revolving around us crap (I
hope), yet kept the young earth stuff.
What gives?
swa...@ozemail.com.au
> I didn't say that your lot believed what the Babylonians etc. believed.
> What your early Christians believed was the religious crap about a young
> earth, flat earth, and stars revolving around us.
> But you have thrown out the flat earth and stars revolving around us crap (I
> hope), yet kept the young earth stuff.
> What gives?-
I did not hear of the 'flat earth' idea until I came into discussions
about
the controvery between Scientific Creationism and Evolution,
except for a vague reference in school history that it was feared
Columbus
would fall off the earth.
The ancient Greeks were aware of the spherical nature of the world,
and the Bible does not have one reference to support it.
If the RC Church had not followed Ptolomy, but had stayed with the
ideas of
Aristarchus who believed that the earth revolved round the sun
there would not have been the controversy in the time of Copernicus
and
Galileo whose calculations supported the earlier belief.
http://creation.com/the-flat-earth-myth-and-creationism
http://creation.com/countering-the-critics-questions-and-answers
Gladys Swager
theo
> How do you know the Earth is not the center of the universe?
>
> You believe the BIG BANG is the center of the universe, right?
>
> LOL!
>
> Let me tell you something, if I may.
> Right now, Hubble can see to the apparent edge of the universe in EVERY
> direction it looks! And THAT proves that the earth IS in the center of
> the universe!
>
> Now, YOU go to NASA or HUBBLE, or _wherever_ your get your version of
> reality, and YOU get them to tell you that they can see the edge of the
> universe in SOME direction (any direction) which proves that the earth
> is NOT at the center of the universe.
>
> You can't do it.
You must be trolling, surely no-one can be that stupid.
Theo
theo
> Now, YOU go to NASA or HUBBLE, or _wherever_ your get your version of
> reality, and YOU get them to tell you that they can see the edge of the
> universe in SOME direction (any direction) which proves that the earth is
> NOT at the center of the universe.
From where I am I can see the same distance in every direction. Does
this prove that I am at the centre of the universe?
Theo