Is there such a thing as a 'Bad' Christian?
Victor
not a very good Christian.
I ask the question, Is there such a thing as a 'bad' Christian?
Are they any 'good' Christians, and 'bad Christians' or just Christians?
Personally, I say that there is no such thing as a 'bad' Christian, but I
would like to hear some of your thoughts.
regards
Victor
fervent
"Victor" <vic...@beet79.karoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bnevn9$o5t$1...@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
It would be more by way of expression regarding that person's lack of
discipleship...for even the devils believe and tremble...believing is only a
part of the experience, but obeying is the final requisite....disciplleship
is obeying and following....
In that sense there is a dividing line between the one and the other ....
Wayne W.
"Victor" <vic...@beet79.karoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bnevn9$o5t$1...@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net...
Christians are people. So, since there are good people and bad people, the
answer is yes. That is if you consider them as they are. Remember Paul
admonished us to examine ourselves to see if we are still in the faith. We
have it in our power to leave the faith, and not even know it.
God however, loves us still. So should we love each other even when we are
bad. The blood of Jesus is there for such an occasion. And if we can't
forgive one another, then neither can He forgive us.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Yours in Christ Jesus,
Wayne W.
FP
I think there is a point where we become obedient to Him. I believe you can
be a Christian, and if you have not made Him Lord of your life, e.g., still
living a lot for self and not molded by the Master's Hand into
Christ-likeness--not much evidence of the fruits (patience, etc), one could
appear to be a "bad" Christian. But rather than a "bad" Christian, I really
think it is where one is on their walk/journey with Christ. I also believe
that as we keep seeking, asking, knocking, we will continue to find. And
the greatest thing is He never gives up on us...no matter how unlovely we
appear, Amen?
I look forward to the discussion surrounding your post.
:o)
"Victor" <vic...@beet79.karoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bnevn9$o5t$1...@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net...
Vera Six
I would say there is not such a thing as a "good" Christian.
Yours in Christ,
Vera
--
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Where Jesus is Lord ...
http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Pastor Dave
<eww...@nospam.charter.net> wrote:
>Christians are people. So, since there are good people and bad people, the
>answer is yes. That is if you consider them as they are. Remember Paul
>admonished us to examine ourselves to see if we are still in the faith. We
>have it in our power to leave the faith, and not even know it.
I would like to suggest a book.
"The Gospel According to the Apostles"
John MacArthur
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
When Christianity becomes religion,
it leaves the heart hungry.
Victor
Let us look at the question again, and include a few verses which may help
to see were I am coming from.
Mar 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good
save one, even God.
Matt 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but the
corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Matt 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt
tree bring forth good fruit.
Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but
Christ who lives in me; and the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith
in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
1Pe 1:23 having been begotten again, not of corruptible seed, but of
incorruptible, through the word of God, which liveth and abideth.
Col 1:26 even the mystery which hath been hid for ages and generations: but
now hath it been manifested to his saints,
Col 1:27 to whom God was pleased to make known what is the riches of the
glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope
of glory:
Col 1:28 whom we proclaim, admonishing every man and teaching every man in
all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ;
We know from the verses taken from Matthew, that no man is good, as only God
is good.
Before Christ we are all in Adam (the corrupt tree) the corrupt tree cannot
bring forth good fruit.
In the world we tend to judge a person as good or bad, by comparing them
against other people in the world.
Man is the yard stick for measuring against.
The fall down is that when we become Christian we still use these same
(worldly) methods, when judging one another.
The thing is that before becoming a Christian, there was no good in me, and
after becoming a Christian there is still no good in me (that is, in my
flesh).
The only good thing in me is Christ (the good tree) who cannot bring forth
evil fruit.
So to say there is a 'bad' Christian, is to say that Christ is not the good
tree, or that the good tree can bring forth evil fruit.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good
thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is
good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would
not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin
that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present
with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my
mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my
members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of
this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I
myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
regards
Victor
"FP" <fpri...@ndak.net> wrote in message
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Victor
"Wayne W." <eww...@nospam.charter.net> wrote in message
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>
> "Victor" <vic...@beet79.karoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:bnevn9$o5t$1...@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net...
> > I have often heard Christians say of other Christians, that 'he' or
'she'
> is
> > not a very good Christian.
> > I ask the question, Is there such a thing as a 'bad' Christian?
> > Are they any 'good' Christians, and 'bad Christians' or just Christians?
> >
> > Personally, I say that there is no such thing as a 'bad' Christian, but
I
> > would like to hear some of your thoughts.
> >
> > regards
> >
> > Victor
> >
> >
>
> Christians are people. So, since there are good people and bad people, the
> answer is yes.
Hi Wayne,
There are no good people, only God is good.
regards
Victor
Victor
"Vera Six" <ver...@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:bnf79n$7r2$07$1...@news.t-online.com...
> "Victor" <vic...@beet79.karoo.co.uk> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:bnevn9$o5t$1...@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net...
> > I have often heard Christians say of other Christians, that 'he' or
'she' is
> > not a very good Christian.
> > I ask the question, Is there such a thing as a 'bad' Christian?
> > Are they any 'good' Christians, and 'bad Christians' or just Christians?
> >
> > Personally, I say that there is no such thing as a 'bad' Christian, but
I
> > would like to hear some of your thoughts.
> >
> > regards
> >
> > Victor
> >
>
> I would say there is not such a thing as a "good" Christian.
>
> Yours in Christ,
>
> Vera
Hi Vera,
Can a good tree bring forth evil fruit?
regards
Victor
FP
and
flesh).
>Te only good thing in me is Christ (the good tree) who >cannot bring forth
evil fruit.
Agreed. The only good thing in me is Christ. Agreed!
:o)
"Victor" <vic...@beet79.karoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bnhhkp$pr3$2...@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net...
Ben Mitts
Could it be you refer to carnal christians!
--
Peace!
Sincerely,
Ben mitts
From The Word of God: And as Moses lifted up the serpent
in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted
up; that whoever believes may in Him have eternal life."
Similarly, God so loved the world, that He gave His only
begotten Son, that who ever believes in Him should not
perish, but Have eternal life. Another: God did not send
the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the
world should be saved through Him. He spoke elsewhere:
I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me
shall live, even if he dies, and everyone who lives and
believes in Me shall never die. Believe you this?
Therefore we may, as many will to do so: "But as many as
received Him, to them He gave the right to become child-
ren of God, even to those who believe in His name,"
(John 1:12)
Vera Six
>
> "Vera Six" <ver...@t-online.de> wrote in message
> news:bnf79n$7r2$07$1...@news.t-online.com...
> > "Victor" <vic...@beet79.karoo.co.uk> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:bnevn9$o5t$1...@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net...
> > > I have often heard Christians say of other Christians, that 'he' or
> 'she' is
> > > not a very good Christian.
> > > I ask the question, Is there such a thing as a 'bad' Christian?
> > > Are they any 'good' Christians, and 'bad Christians' or just Christians?
> > >
> > > Personally, I say that there is no such thing as a 'bad' Christian, but
> I
> > > would like to hear some of your thoughts.
> > >
> > > regards
> > >
> > > Victor
> > >
> >
> > I would say there is not such a thing as a "good" Christian.
> >
> > Yours in Christ,
> >
> > Vera
>
> Hi Vera,
> Can a good tree bring forth evil fruit?
>
> regards
> Victor
Hi Victor,
what is a "good" Christian - that was the question,
not who is good. Can you specify what you mean by "good"?
Jesus said there himself there were no good people at all.
Christians are not better than others, but they think about it.
The difference between them and others is just that they have
a relationship with God. He shows them what is good or bad.
But they are still not to be called "good" - whatsoever.
Yours in Christ,
Vera
--
sensible2me
"Victor" <vic...@beet79.karoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bnevn9$o5t$1...@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net...
I think we have to examine the elements of "growth." Just as in physical
life there are
babes, children, teenagers, adults and elders. Each of those have
qualities and each also have their stubborn traits.
I think we all go through the whole gambit until we reach a certain
spiritual age. Noone can remain a baby, child, teenager but must become
responsible, disciplined and groomed to walk in the footsteps of Christ.
Getting their takes many steps and each have to take certain steps in order
to learn where they stand, just as in physical life, some learn the hard way
and some go through the growth process with ease.
Brenda G. Kent
spread lies, act holier than thou (like the Pharisees) etc.....
use the name of Christian...but really don't embrace the loving spirit of
Christ. So I don't think they actually ARE Christians...however that is up
to God to decide I figure.
Bren.
Victor
> "Victor" <vic...@beet79.karoo.co.uk> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:bnhigb$6bt$1...@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net...
> >
> > "Vera Six" <ver...@t-online.de> wrote in message
> > news:bnf79n$7r2$07$1...@news.t-online.com...
> > > "Victor" <vic...@beet79.karoo.co.uk> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> > > > I have often heard Christians say of other Christians, that 'he' or
> > 'she' is
> > > > not a very good Christian.
> > > > I ask the question, Is there such a thing as a 'bad' Christian?
> > > > Are they any 'good' Christians, and 'bad Christians' or just
Christians?
> > > >
> > > > Personally, I say that there is no such thing as a 'bad' Christian,
but
> > I
> > > > would like to hear some of your thoughts.
> > > >
> > > > regards
> > > >
> > > > Victor
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yours in Christ,
> > >
> > > Vera
> >
> > Hi Vera,
> > Can a good tree bring forth evil fruit?
> >
> > regards
> > Victor
>
> Hi Victor,
>
> what is a "good" Christian - that was the question,
> not who is good. Can you specify what you mean by "good"?
> Jesus said there himself there were no good people at all.
>
> Christians are not better than others, but they think about it.
> The difference between them and others is just that they have
> a relationship with God. He shows them what is good or bad.
> But they are still not to be called "good" - whatsoever.
>
> Yours in Christ,
>
> Vera
Hi Vera,
I think we are pretty much on the same wave length.
As you say Christians are no better than others. The difference is that we
have Christ in us, and we are in Christ.
The point I am trying to make (I think ;) is this, that God has not given us
Christ Jesus in order to improve us.
God is not in the improving business. He is in the replacing business.
Our old life has been replaced, by the new life. Not a patching up of old
cloth.
My work as a Christian is not to try and do better, now that I know and have
received Jesus Christ.
My so called work is to die daily to self.
The old life that was rooted in Adam cannot bring forth good fruit. It may
look good at times when we compare against others, but never the less God
pronounces that even our (so called) good is corrupt.
Instead of accepting God's verdict, we seem to think there is still hope for
the old man.
True Christianity is about 'new life' and that new life is 'Christ in me'
When God created Adam, and breathed into his nostrils, it was a life giving
breath, but it was not God's own life. As Christians we receive God's own
life, (not that we become little gods) but we are made alive by His life.
This life is without corruption, and cannot bring forth evil fruit.
May the Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, help us to decrease so that He would
increase!
regards
Victor
Vera Six
"Victor" <vic...@beet79.karoo.co.uk> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:bnkf7l$scs$1...@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net...
> Hi Vera,
> I think we are pretty much on the same wave length.
that would be fine. :-)
> As you say Christians are no better than others. The difference is that we
> have Christ in us, and we are in Christ.
Right.
> The point I am trying to make (I think ;) is this, that God has not given us
> Christ Jesus in order to improve us.
> God is not in the improving business. He is in the replacing business.
Right.
> Our old life has been replaced, by the new life. Not a patching up of old
> cloth.
> My work as a Christian is not to try and do better, now that I know and have
> received Jesus Christ.
> My so called work is to die daily to self.
Right.
> The old life that was rooted in Adam cannot bring forth good fruit. It may
> look good at times when we compare against others, but never the less God
> pronounces that even our (so called) good is corrupt.
I agree with you. The only comparison that is necessary
is if someone belongs to God or not.
> Instead of accepting God's verdict, we seem to think there is still hope for
> the old man.
>
> True Christianity is about 'new life' and that new life is 'Christ in me'
Absolutely.
> When God created Adam, and breathed into his nostrils, it was a life giving
> breath, but it was not God's own life. As Christians we receive God's own
> life, (not that we become little gods) but we are made alive by His life.
> This life is without corruption, and cannot bring forth evil fruit.
Very well explained.
> May the Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, help us to decrease so that He would
> increase!
That is what I wish, too.
> regards
>
> Victor
Yours in Christ,
Vera
P.S.: Do you often write here? I would love it if you stayed.
Victor
Hi again Vera,
Yes I often visit ACC, and occasionally I do write here.
I have been visiting for around a year or more now.
I would write more often, but 'writing' what is on and in my heart is not my
greatest strength.
Writing in general is something I struggle with.
If I don't see you before, I will see you when we get home!!
regards
Victor
FP
:o)
"Victor" <vic...@beet79.karoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bns96e$lct$1...@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net...
Vera Six
Hi Victor,
I like what you write - it is very good! :-) I have my problems to get along
with the English language. My mother tongue is German, and I often
lack words or make mistakes. It would be easier in German for me. But
there is no comparable newsgroup in German.
But if you are interested in participating in the ACC Web Site, just
write me a mail under my private mail-address ver...@t-online.de.
I think it is a good idea to stand in one line and show something about
the unity there is among Christians. This makes me really happy, because
it is something that has a really high power of conviction.
Yours in Christ,
Vera
James
Victor,
The Bible warns us that there would be false Christians around. For
example the apostle Peter said at 2 Pe 2:1,3,
"1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there
will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce
destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought
them--bringing swift destruction on themselves. 3 In their greed these
teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their
condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction
has not been sleeping." (NIV)
Thus people who are CLAIMING to be Christian, must live up to the
standards the Bible sets forth. Otherwise they are not true
Christians.
For instance notice Jesus' words at Mt 5:44,
"But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute
you," (NASB)
Yes genuine Christian followers of Jesus are to obey his command and
"love your enemies". Now think about how many churches support and\or
actively participate in the wars of this world. Instead of 'loving'
their enemies, they are dismembering them with war weapons etc.
Yes, they have many excuses for why they do that. But the bottom line
is that they would rather follow some political leader, rather than
the Son of God.
Yes, 'good' Christians try to always obey their master's voice. 'Bad'
Christians do not always do this. As Jesus tells them at Lu 6:46,
"Why do you call me, `Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?" (NIV)
Sincerely, James
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