Kingdom of God
Pastor Dave
There are many who say that the Kingdom of God
is something that will be seen later, after this world
is destroyed and a new Earth is created. But I tend
to refer to what Jesus said, since our reading of
other texts should be based on His words and not
what we want to read into other writings from books
which are symbolic, such as Revelation, which may
be the most symbolic book in the Bible and yet,
is read by Dispensationalists, as if it is the most literal.
So I ask a few questions, based on Jesus' words and not
that of Dispensationalists, who I believe have become so
indoctrinated into their doctrines, that they filter the Bible
through their doctrine, instead of the other way around
and have come to believe that what they say is actually
found in the Bible. For example, they say that...
"The AntiChrist is found in Daniel", when in reality,
Daniel never uses that word. But say that to them
and they quote another passage that says, "little horn"
as proof that Daniel said "AntiChrist" and claim they
are synonymous. But where does THE BIBLE say that?
It doesn't. Their doctrine does and that is my point.
So let's see what Jesus said and let's ask some common
sense questions and see what we come up with. You
must answer these for yourself. But if you immediately
go into a mode in which you are trying to protect your
doctrine in your mind, then you have already admitted
that your doctrine is not found in His words. And if
these questions make you angry, then ask yourself
why asking questions about what Jesus said, makes
you angry. After all, I'm not preaching any doctrine
at all here. I am only asking questions. Now since
when is that something we should avoid?
And these questions are not meant to invite answers.
I ask them so that you may think within yourselves
what those answers are. I hope that you lay yourself
bare and strip all of your doctrine away, counting
only on Jesus and His words and not what you were
taught to think He said. If you can do this, God will
surely bless you in the study that these questions
should provoke. But even if you decide to pour over
the Bible, searching out every instance of the phrase,
"Kingdom of God", I believe that you will find the
truth for yourself, with God's help, if you are not
stubborn and are open to it. So may God bless you!
Matthew 6: 31-33
31) Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall
we eat? Or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal
shall we be clothed?
32) (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:)
for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need
of all these things.
33) But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his
righteousness; and all these things shall be added
unto you.
It is clear here, that Jesus is not talking about a physical
kingdom. How were they to seek what they could not
find, because it supposedly wouldn't appear for thousands
of years yet?
And it seems to me, that He was saying *not* to be
concerned about the physical, because God takes care
of that. But He never said a word about a future,
physical kingdom. He related what God would take
care of for us while we would normally be worried
about food and clothes, which is in this world now.
"But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the
kingdom of God is come unto you." - Matthew 12:28
Was Jesus casting out demons by the physical kingdom
of God? If so, how? His power was Heavenly and Heaven
isn't physical and there was and is no physical kingdom of
God on Earth.
"And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go
through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter
into the kingdom of God." - Matthew 19:24
Now everyone knows that here, Christ is talking about
salvation. So why switch gears? I mean, why claim
that it is about the physical? Why would he say this,
when those who are here to see this supposed earthly
kingdom wouldn't have any trouble getting in at all?
"Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall
be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth
the fruits thereof." - Matthew 21:43
How can the "kingdom of God" be taken from those
who never had it to begin with, if it is physical and
we are still waiting for it?
"And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God
is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel." - Mark 1:15
Why would Jesus preach that "the time" was "fulfilled",
if it would not be, until thousands of years later?
And why would He claim that "the Kingdom of God"
was "at hand", if it wasn't, remembering that He said
that "the time" was fulfilled?
In fact, that was the very first thing we have both
John the Baptist and Jesus recorded as preaching...
Matthew 3:1-2
1) In those days came John the Baptist, preaching
in the wilderness of Judea,
2) And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven
is at hand.
"From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say,
Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."
- Matthew 4:17
Luke 17:20-21
20) And when he was demanded of the Pharisees,
when the kingdom of God should come, he answered
them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with
observation:
21) Neither shall they say, 'Lo here!', or, 'Lo there!';
For behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Here, the Pharisees, who believed in a physical coming
kingdom, in which the Messiah would sit on an earthly
throne, questioned Jesus as to when it would come.
Why did Jesus deny that the Kingdom of God would
be seen with the eye, if it is going to be seen with
the eye? Why would He say it is "within" us, if it
is "outside" of us? Why wouldn't He just say...
"It is coming and you will not be part of it, if you
don't repent.", considering that He preached that
very thing first (repent, because the kingdom is
at hand)? No, He denied it!
Now some will say that the Dispensational belief does not
deny the spiritual aspect, but also believes in the physical
aspect. If that is so, then why do they spend all of their
time talking about the physical aspect and telling me how
wrong I am and only start talking about the spiritual aspect,
after being shown that they are backed into a corner by
Jesus' words and still don't spend any time on it, but only
state the spiritual aspect of it, so that they won't seem
"wrong"?
And why can they not admit that Jesus did *not* say,
"But later, it will be physical."?
Rather, He clearly denied a physical, earthly kingdom here,
by stating clearly that it would NOT be seen with the eye
and that it could NOT be pointed at.
Why would He say those things, if it could be seen with
the eye and could be pointed at?
Surely, if it would later be physical, it could be seen with
the eye and could be pointed at. Only a lunatic would
deny that simple fact, amen? Yet Jesus said the opposite!
--
The torture of a bad conscience, is the Hell
of a living soul. - John Calvin
::: vera :::
> is something that will be seen later, after this world
> is destroyed and a new Earth is created.
Where do you "see" the Kingdom of God now?
::: vera :::
<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
He will wipe away from them every tear from their eyes. Death will be no
more; neither will there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more.
The first things have passed away." (Revelation 21:4 WEB)
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
--
___________________________________________________
::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::::::
::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::::::
::::::: http://www.e-sword.net :::::::
::::::: http://alpha.org/default.asp :::::::
Gatekeeper
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> From: "::: vera :::" <vera...@lycos.com>
> Newsgroups: alt.christnet.christianlife,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic,alt.christnet.evangelical,alt.religion.christian.baptist
> Subject: Re: Kingdom of God
> Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 00:38:00 +0200
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>
>> There are many who say that the Kingdom of God
>> is something that will be seen later, after this world
>> is destroyed and a new Earth is created.
>
> Where do you "see" the Kingdom of God now?
>
> ::: vera :::
>
> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
> He will wipe away from them every tear from their eyes. Death will be no
> more; neither will there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more.
> The first things have passed away." (Revelation 21:4 WEB)
>><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
Everywhere I look! He is Lord over all! He reigns in righteousness!
His Kingdom shall have no end!
The Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence!
Whosoever will, may come in!
Gatekeeper
r m
"Gatekeeper" <gatekeepe...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:17n4svl59dmu3.j...@40tude.net...
> On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 00:38:00 +0200, ::: vera ::: wrote:
[snip]
>>> There are many who say that the Kingdom of God
>>> is something that will be seen later, after this world
>>> is destroyed and a new Earth is created.
>>
>> Where do you "see" the Kingdom of God now?
A kingdom is not so much predicated by place and time but where the King
rules. Jesus proclaimed His coming Kingdom (e.g. Mat 3:2), and claimed to
be King (Joh 18:37). That is; where God rules in the hearts of men.
In a temporal sense: the Kingdom is expresssed as past (e.g. Col 1:13),
present (e.g. 1Cor 4:20), or future (2Tim 4:18). So, in a way there is a
timelessness about it (e.g. Heb 1:8).
Cheers.
^^^Sog
"r m" <rm@hotmailDOTcom> wrote in message
news:462ff343$0$5749$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>
> "Gatekeeper" <gatekeepe...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:17n4svl59dmu3.j...@40tude.net...
>> On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 00:38:00 +0200, ::: vera ::: wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>>>> There are many who say that the Kingdom of God
>>>> is something that will be seen later, after this world
>>>> is destroyed and a new Earth is created.
>>>
>>> Where do you "see" the Kingdom of God now?
>
> A kingdom is not so much predicated by place and time but where the King
> rules. Jesus proclaimed His coming Kingdom (e.g. Mat 3:2), and claimed to
> be King (Joh 18:37). That is; where God rules in the hearts of men.
>
> In a temporal sense: the Kingdom is expresssed as past (e.g. Col 1:13),
> present (e.g. 1Cor 4:20), or future (2Tim 4:18). So, in a way there is a
> timelessness about it (e.g. Heb 1:8).
>
> Cheers.
Where God rules, that's a good way to think about the kingdom, past,
present, and future, yes very good insight.
But my problem, yeah, you knew this was coming, yes my problem is with that
tag line, The Eastgate is open?
Any thoughts on that?
SOG
Pastor Dave
>> There are many who say that the Kingdom of God
>> is something that will be seen later, after this world
>> is destroyed and a new Earth is created.
>
>Where do you "see" the Kingdom of God now?
>
> ::: vera :::
Once again, Vera contradicts the Lord Jesus Christ!
Luke 17:20-21
20) Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when
the Kingdom of God would come, He answered them
and said, The kingdom of God does *NOT* come
with observation;
21) *NOR* will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’
For indeed, the kingdom of God is WITHIN YOU.
It does NOT come with observation.
It can NOT be pointed at.
And since you reject the fact that the Kingdom of God
is within and not without, you have just confessed
that *YOU* are *NOT* part of the Kingdom of God!
--
Tragedy is a tool for the living to gain wisdom.
not a guide, by which to live. - Robert Kennedy
Pastor Dave
claimed:
>"Gatekeeper" <gatekeepe...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:17n4svl59dmu3.j...@40tude.net...
>
>> On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 00:38:00 +0200, ::: vera ::: wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>>>> There are many who say that the Kingdom of God
>>>> is something that will be seen later, after this world
>>>> is destroyed and a new Earth is created.
>>>
>>> Where do you "see" the Kingdom of God now?
>
>A kingdom is not so much predicated by place and time
>but where the King rules. Jesus proclaimed His coming
>Kingdom (e.g. Mat 3:2), and claimed to be King (Joh 18:37).
>That is; where God rules in the hearts of men.
Amen! And Jesus is to rule from Heaven.
"She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod
of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne."
- Revelation 12:5
Where is His throne? In Heaven, with God!
So where does He "rule the nations" from? Heaven!
Pastor Dave
>> There are many who say that the Kingdom of God
>> is something that will be seen later, after this world
>> is destroyed and a new Earth is created.
>
>Where do you "see" the Kingdom of God now?
>
> ::: vera :::
Once again, Vera contradicts the Lord Jesus Christ!
Luke 17:20-21
20) Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when
the Kingdom of God would come, He answered them
and said, The kingdom of God does *NOT* come
with observation;
21) *NOR* will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’
For indeed, the kingdom of God is WITHIN YOU.
It does NOT come with observation.
It can NOT be pointed at.
And since you reject the fact that the Kingdom of God
is within and not without, you have just confessed
that *YOU* are *NOT* part of the Kingdom of God!
--
Pastor Dave
<So...@no.smail.775309029no.cow.com> claimed:
>But my problem, yeah, you knew this was coming, yes my problem is with that
>tag line, The Eastgate is open?
>Any thoughts on that?
The East Gate is where God entered the Temple.
if you have any other questions about Temple
history, i would be glad to help. You are a nice
man and I know you seek knowledge and not pride.
KlugeHans
<vera...@lycos.com> wrote:
> > There are many who say that the Kingdom of God
> > is something that will be seen later, after this world
> > is destroyed and a new Earth is created.
>
> Where do you "see" the Kingdom of God now?
>
Never where Christians meet
KlugeHans
<no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> And since you reject the fact that the Kingdom of God
> is within and not without, you have just confessed
> that *YOU* are *NOT* part of the Kingdom of God!
That is illogical
If the kingdom of God is WITHIN her
It is a part of HER
and not HER of IT
It is a bit like swallowing a sausage
It becomes part of you
You don't become part of the sausage
God Christians talk a lot of rubbish!
KlugeHans
<no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 00:38:00 +0200, " ::: vera :::"
> <vera...@lycos.com> claimed:
>
>
> >> There are many who say that the Kingdom of God
> >> is something that will be seen later, after this world
> >> is destroyed and a new Earth is created.
> >
> >Where do you "see" the Kingdom of God now?
> >
> > ::: vera :::
>
> Once again, Vera contradicts the Lord Jesus Christ!
>
> Luke 17:20-21
>
> 20) Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when
> the Kingdom of God would come, He answered them
> and said, The kingdom of God does *NOT* come
> with observation;
> 21) *NOR* will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’
> For indeed, the kingdom of God is WITHIN YOU.
>
> It does NOT come with observation.
>
> It can NOT be pointed at.
>
> And since you reject the fact that the Kingdom of God
> is within and not without, you have just confessed
> that *YOU* are *NOT* part of the Kingdom of God!
In article <s620331fubv84ti55...@4ax.com>, Pastor Dave
<no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> And since you reject the fact that the Kingdom of God
> is within and not without, you have just confessed
> that *YOU* are *NOT* part of the Kingdom of God!
That is illogical
If the kingdom of God is WITHIN her
It is a part of HER
and not HER of IT
It is a bit like swallowing a sausage
It becomes part of you
You don't become part of the sausage
God Christians talk a lot of rubbish!
++++++++++++++++++
Gatekeeper
His Kingdom is Timeless, because He is Timeless!
The essence of a Kingdom is the King!
If you have no King, you have no Kingdom!
If you have a King, you have a Kingdom!
We announce that He is King Now,
We announce that His Kingdom is Now, Most Glorious!
Our citizenship is already in His Kingdom above!
Read Hebrews and find out that we have already come to the City of
God! And we see that all the Gates of the City are wide open, and the
City is full of Light, for our King is the Light of the City, and He
reigns now, from the Throne of God found in the City of God. There is
a River of Life that flows out from the Throne, through the City, and
gives Life to all who will come and drink from the River of Life!
r m
"^^^Sog" <So...@no.smail.775309029no.cow.com> wrote in message
news:23a50$462ffbee$d066ef45$20...@FUSE.NET...
>
> "r m" <rm@hotmailDOTcom> wrote in message
> news:462ff343$0$5749$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>>
>> "Gatekeeper" <gatekeepe...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:17n4svl59dmu3.j...@40tude.net...
>>> On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 00:38:00 +0200, ::: vera ::: wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>>>> There are many who say that the Kingdom of God
>>>>> is something that will be seen later, after this world
>>>>> is destroyed and a new Earth is created.
>>>>
>>>> Where do you "see" the Kingdom of God now?
>>
>> A kingdom is not so much predicated by place and time but where the King
>> rules. Jesus proclaimed His coming Kingdom (e.g. Mat 3:2), and claimed
>> to be King (Joh 18:37). That is; where God rules in the hearts of men.
>>
>> In a temporal sense: the Kingdom is expresssed as past (e.g. Col 1:13),
>> present (e.g. 1Cor 4:20), or future (2Tim 4:18). So, in a way there is
>> a timelessness about it (e.g. Heb 1:8).
>>
>> Cheers.
>
> Where God rules, that's a good way to think about the kingdom, past,
> present, and future, yes very good insight.
> But my problem, yeah, you knew this was coming, yes my problem is with
> that tag line, The Eastgate is open?
> Any thoughts on that?
I have two lines of thought at the moment.
1. While Christ "ascended on high" (Eph 4:8), He declared that He had
finished His work (i.e. Joh 19:30) and having no more work to do, He "sat
down" (Heb 10:12) which happens to be Heaven (Heb 8:1).
2. This is where Ps 68 probably gives us some background. For this
psalm speaks of victorious God triumphant over His enemies returning to His
place of abode where He rules and so receive gifts from them. This is
picked up in Eph 4:4ff where this is now ascribed to Christ, but in this
case, He gives gifts to men (v.8) - His church.
So, with that in mind, His church somehow forms part of His Kingdom rule.
I'ts been too long ago since we last discussed about your Eastgate theme so
it's a bit hazy now. From what I remember, it came to you by way of
special revelation for you to minister in usenet. But the theme is an
invitation to visit the the King Who is in residence. [correct me if this a
bit off].
My thoughts are that it isn't wrong as such. But I prefer to emphase that
He reached out to establish His Kingdom (1Pet 2:9-10).
What sayest thou?
Gatekeeper
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> Subject: Re: Kingdom of God
> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 21:08:40 -0400
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When I first prayed about posting in the group, and ask the Lord a
name to use, I was given the phrase and the name Gatekeeper.
I was taught by the dispensationalist that Jesus would enter the New
Jerusalem through the Eastgate which had been sealed shut by invaders
who thought they could keep God out of the city by sealing the
Eastgate as prophesied. I have come to believe that Jesus has already
returned and is reigning in Glory from the Throne in the New
Jerusalem, which means that the Eastgate has already been opened.
As Long as the Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence! The
Eastgate would only be closed, should the King leave the City. But we
understand that His reign is forever, so the Eastgate will remain open
forever, as a sign of the Grace of God!
My main mission as gatekeeper, is to announce this status of God's
Grace. I do not open, nor close the Gate, I can keep noone in or out!
I do encourage those who are on the outside to come in and experience
the Grace of God for themselves, independent from any previous
experience they may have had. They need to meet the King themselves,
only then can they decide whether they desire to know Him or not,
whether they will drink of the Water of Life which flows from under
His Throne.
r m
[Grrrr ...]
"r m" <rm@hotmailDOTcom> wrote in message
news:46301c1a$0$5743$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Gatekeeper
You are right on! I have no problem to understand that He reached
out, and continues to reach out with His rod of Iron to establish His
Kingdom! Glory! For His Word goes out over all of creation, and will
not return unto Him Void! Have not all of us who have entered His
Kingdom, heard His voice calling us from darkness unto Light!
^^^Sog
"r m" <rm@hotmailDOTcom> wrote in message
> My apologies SOG. I thought I was replying to Gatekeeper.
>
> [Grrrr ...]
Yes I saw that, It's Ok. [Made me smile]
~Sog
[Don't look now but here come the "Top Post Police"]
^^^Sog
Ok, this the second or third time this scripture flashed accross my spirit
man.
For He has delivered us from the power of darkness and has translated us
into the kingdom of His dear Son;
(Colossians 1:13)
^^^Sog
~Sog
Pastor Dave
>> There are many who say that the Kingdom of God
>> is something that will be seen later, after this world
>> is destroyed and a new Earth is created.
>
>Where do you "see" the Kingdom of God now?
>
> ::: vera :::
Once again, Vera contradicts the Lord Jesus Christ!
Luke 17:20-21
20) Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when
the Kingdom of God would come, He answered them
and said, The kingdom of God does *NOT* come
with observation;
21) *NOR* will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’
For indeed, the kingdom of God is WITHIN YOU.
It does NOT come with observation.
It can NOT be pointed at.
And since you reject the fact that the Kingdom of God
is within and not without, you have just confessed
that *YOU* are *NOT* part of the Kingdom of God!
--
Gatekeeper
And I when I read it! PTL
I believe you are getting the message!
When we announce that Jesus is Lord, we are not speaking platitudes,
we are shaking the foundations of Heaven! Even the Angels stand in
amazement!
Mark T
>> Where do you "see" the Kingdom of God now?
>
> Never where Christians meet
Amen.
It resembles the Fundamentalist Dark Age.
--
My Blog - - my thoughts on Christianity/ song covers & pics & links
http://www.blognow.com.au/strooth/
My Soundclick Page - download my original songs in mp3 format
http://www.soundclick.com/marktindall
Mark T
\>> And since you reject the fact that the Kingdom of God
>> is within and not without, you have just confessed
>> that *YOU* are *NOT* part of the Kingdom of God!
>
> That is illogical
>
> If the kingdom of God is WITHIN her
>
> It is a part of HER
>
> and not HER of IT
>
> It is a bit like swallowing a sausage
>
> It becomes part of you
>
> You don't become part of the sausage
A kingdom is a realm. The realm of God is here now.
> God Christians talk a lot of rubbish!
It's called Fundamentalist Trew Kristyunese
--
A Trew Kristyun is a deranged individual living in the current
Fundamentalist Dark Age who believes:
- The One God Yahweh is really three gods.
- Jesus, a finite Jew from Nazareth, is the infinite One God Yahweh
- A human sacrifice was required by God because God needs blood, gore and
guts in order to forgive sins.
- The Bible, a collection of fallible ancient Near Eastern books / letters /
myths, is "God's word" and inerrant
Mark T
> The essence of a Kingdom is the King!
The King is the One God Yahweh not the finite human Jesus of Nazareth.
--
" Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made
him both Lord (BOSS) and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified." (Act 2:36)
::: vera :::
> On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 19:10:46 -0700, Pastor Dave <no...@nowhere.com>
> wrote:
> © 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
> may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
>> On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 00:38:00 +0200, " ::: vera :::"
>> <vera...@lycos.com> claimed:
>>
>>
>>>> There are many who say that the Kingdom of God
>>>> is something that will be seen later, after this world
>>>> is destroyed and a new Earth is created.
>>>
>>> Where do you "see" the Kingdom of God now?
>>>
>>> ::: vera :::
>>
>> Once again, Vera contradicts the Lord Jesus Christ!
>
>
> Since I happen to know Vera personally, I think you have
> #1 misunderstood what she may have said
> (there is a LOT of "misunderstanding" going on in here
> #2 lied
Hi John, my dear friend and brother in Christ,
It is #2.
Can you see that I put the "see" in inverted commas? Now It was becasue
"Pastor" Dave claims that Jesus came back in 70 A.D., and that the
Kingdom of God has been Spiritually only (that could not be "seen") in
the Christian believers.
It was a big mistake he made when he used the word "see", because he
accuses the Christians that they would just stick with the "world".
I did not write that the kingdom of God is not inside the believers, and
Spiritual. But he confuses it with the new earth that we will get from
God one day - which will be real, with real people with real bodies.
All in all, it is just another useless and mean attempt by "Pastor" Dave
to harm my Christian witness. All in all his hate spitting and lying
shows who his father is.
But whatever else he might lie about me - it is important that our
Father in Heaven knows it better than this liar "Pastor" Dave, whom I
simply asked the valid question where he would "see" the Kingdom of God
now.
>> Luke 17:20-21
>>
>> 20) Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when
>> the Kingdom of God would come, He answered them
>> and said, The kingdom of God does *NOT* come
>> with observation;
>> 21) *NOR* will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!'
>> For indeed, the kingdom of God is WITHIN YOU.
>>
>> It does NOT come with observation.
>>
>> It can NOT be pointed at.
>>
>> And since you reject the fact that the Kingdom of God
>> is within and not without, you have just confessed
>> that *YOU* are *NOT* part of the Kingdom of God!
--
::: vera :::
::: vera ::: <vera...@lycos.com> typed:
>> There are many who say that the Kingdom of God
>> is something that will be seen later, after this world
>> is destroyed and a new Earth is created.
>
> Where do you "see" the Kingdom of God now?
>
> ::: vera :::
This above was simply my valid question to "Pastor" Dave with regard to
the word "see" - as everyone can see. He used this word while he always
says that there will be no kingdom of God that could be seen.
This liar "Pastor" Dave started a new thread and attacked me like that:
==========Start of his post==========
On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 00:38:00 +0200, " ::: vera :::"
<vera...@lycos.com> claimed:
>> There are many who say that the Kingdom of God
>> is something that will be seen later, after this world
>> is destroyed and a new Earth is created.
>
>Where do you "see" the Kingdom of God now?
>
> ::: vera :::
Once again, Vera contradicts the Lord Jesus Christ!
Luke 17:20-21
20) Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when
the Kingdom of God would come, He answered them
and said, The kingdom of God does *NOT* come
with observation;
21) *NOR* will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’
For indeed, the kingdom of God is WITHIN YOU.
It does NOT come with observation.
It can NOT be pointed at.
And since you reject the fact that the Kingdom of God
is within and not without, you have just confessed
that *YOU* are *NOT* part of the Kingdom of God!
--
Tragedy is a tool for the living to gain wisdom.
not a guide, by which to live. - Robert Kennedy
==========End of his post==========
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From: Pastor Dave <no...@nowhere.com>
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Subject: * VERA CONFESSES SHE IS NOT PART OF THE KINGDOM!!! *
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 19:10:46 -0700
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::: vera :::
Gatekeeper <gatekeepe...@hotmail.com> typed:
> On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 00:38:00 +0200, ::: vera ::: wrote:
>
>> Path:
>> news.qwest.net!mpls-num-01.inet.qwest.net!mpls-bin-01.inet.qwest.net!feed.news.qwest.net!mpls-nntp-01.inet.qwest.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
>> From: "::: vera :::" <vera...@lycos.com>
>> Newsgroups:
>> alt.christnet.christianlife,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic,alt.christnet.evangelical,alt.religion.christian.baptist
>> Subject: Re: Kingdom of God
>> Lines: 21
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>> References: <i5bv23puobc3aa1d1...@4ax.com>
>> X-Trace: individual.net
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>> X-Priority: 3
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>> alt.religion.christian:1594869 alt.messianic:419892
>> alt.christnet.evangelical:221229
>> alt.religion.christian.baptist:988641
>>
>>> There are many who say that the Kingdom of God
>>> is something that will be seen later, after this world
>>> is destroyed and a new Earth is created.
>>
>> Where do you "see" the Kingdom of God now?
>>
>> ::: vera :::
>>
>> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
>> be no
>> more; neither will there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more.
>> The first things have passed away." (Revelation 21:4 WEB)
>>> <> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
>
> His Kingdom shall have no end!
I did not ask you. I asked "Pastor" Dave.
But I ask you how this "Pastor" can open up a new thread and claim
"* VERA CONFESSES SHE IS NOT PART OF THE KINGDOM!!! *"
That is evil, is it not, and a flat out lie as well. Does Preterism
really bring out the worst in people? "Pastor" Dave still sticks to his
lies even when they are proved under his nose.
Any idea?
>
> The Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence!
> Whosoever will, may come in!
>
> Gatekeeper
::: vera :::
::: vera :::
below again.
Of course he did that deliberately. He should be more careful with his
postings, especially as he is fast to accuse others of doing comparable
things deliberately to harm him. Now this here was his attempt to DOUBLE
HARM me.
"Pastor"In news:nud033thb76o0vloj...@4ax.com,
Pastor Dave <no...@nowhere.com> typed:
In news:59a3i8F...@mid.individual.net,
::: vera ::: <vera...@lycos.com> typed:
>> There are many who say that the Kingdom of God
>> is something that will be seen later, after this world
>> is destroyed and a new Earth is created.
>
> Where do you "see" the Kingdom of God now?
>
> ::: vera :::
This above was simply my valid question to "Pastor" Dave with regard to
the word "see" - as everyone can see. He used this word while he always
says that there will be no kingdom of God that could be seen.
This liar "Pastor" Dave started a new thread and attacked me like that:
==========Start of his post==========
On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 00:38:00 +0200, " ::: vera :::"
<vera...@lycos.com> claimed:
Luke 17:20-21
--
==========End of his post==========
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Subject: * VERA CONFESSES SHE IS NOT PART OF THE KINGDOM!!! *
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From: Pastor Dave <no...@nowhere.com>
Newsgroups:
alt.christnet.christianlife,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic,alt.christnet.evangelical,alt.religion.christian.baptist
Subject: * VERA CONFESSES SHE IS NOT PART OF THE KINGDOM!!! *
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 19:10:46 -0700
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Gatekeeper
> "Gatekeeper" <gatekeepe...@hotmail.com> wroteth:
>
>> The essence of a Kingdom is the King!
>
> The King is the One God Yahweh not the finite human Jesus of Nazareth.
>
>
> --
> " Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made
> him both Lord (BOSS) and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified." (Act 2:36)
It is said, that when He came He put off His Glory, but now, He has
put His Glory back on, and His Face shines as the Ancient of Days!
Glory upon Glory, Grace upon Grace that we should behold Him in all of
His Glory! The King of Kings, and Lord of Lords!
Thanks Mark, for reminding us of who He is, now and forever!
Gatekeeper
It was easy, he pushed a few buttons, and typed in a few words, and
presto there was a new thread!
Now I think what you mean, is what motivated him, and I would have to
say you did! If you don't want him coming after you with his big
stick, then don't you be hounding him!
Now you keep making a big deal about the name he uses, "Pastor Dave",
and that is your problem not his. If you don't want to call him PD,
then call him "Giant Waffle" and we will know who you are talking
about.
>
>
>
> That is evil, is it not, and a flat out lie as well. Does Preterism
> really bring out the worst in people? "Pastor" Dave still sticks to his
> lies even when they are proved under his nose.
>
> Any idea?
It certainly seems to bring out the worst in you! Usually I look to
see what you have to say, but recently it has been rather negetive!
You need to write about something else, and get your mind off all of
these problems which so badly affect you!
>
>>
>> The Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence!
>> Whosoever will, may come in!
>
>
>>
>> Gatekeeper
>
> ::: vera :::
>
> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
> He will wipe away from them every tear from their eyes. Death will be no
> more; neither will there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more.
> The first things have passed away." (Revelation 21:4 WEB)
>><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
> --
> ___________________________________________________
> ::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::::::
> ::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::::::
> ::::::: http://www.e-sword.net :::::::
> ::::::: http://alpha.org/default.asp :::::::
Vera, I do not know you except by what I read here in the group. It
seems to me that you have a testimony of believeing in Jesus, and
testifying to what you believe. You do well when you stick to what you
know, but when you get involved in one of these running battles, it
seems things spin out of your control pretty fast.
I would suggest that if you can not stand the heat, stay out of the
battle. If you jump into the battle, then do not complain about
someone taking shots at your unsulied reputation, for it is certain
that you are going to get muddied!
Now when all the name calling, and mud slinging is done away with, I
feel certain that the main result is going to be muddy faces! LOL, it
reminds me of something my grandmother said, " A family that fights
together, stays together!"
Pastor Dave
<vera...@lycos.com> claimed:
>In news:59a3i8F...@mid.individual.net,
> ::: vera ::: <vera...@lycos.com> typed:
>
>>> There are many who say that the Kingdom of God
>>> is something that will be seen later, after this world
>>> is destroyed and a new Earth is created.
>>
>> Where do you "see" the Kingdom of God now?
>>
>> ::: vera :::
>
>
>This above was simply my valid question to "Pastor" Dave
>with regard to the word "see" - as everyone can see. He
>used this word while he always says that there will be no
>kingdom of God that could be seen.
You can lie if you want to. The truth is, that you believe
in a physical, visible kingdom and the fact that you are
now trying to back off of that, by claiming you didn't
really mean what you said, only proves that you know
that your doctrine is falling apart.
And telling the truth about what you believe is not an attack.
Pastor Dave
>> Everywhere I look! He is Lord over all! He reigns in righteousness!
>> His Kingdom shall have no end!
>
>I did not ask you. I asked "Pastor" Dave.
>
>But I ask you how this "Pastor" can open up a new thread and claim
>
>"* VERA CONFESSES SHE IS NOT PART OF THE KINGDOM!!! *"
>
>That is evil, is it not, and a flat out lie as well.
So now you wish to claim that you are part of the Kingdom?
How does that work, when according to you, it isn't here yet?
Pastor Dave
<vera...@lycos.com> claimed:
>>>>> There are many who say that the Kingdom of God
>>>>> is something that will be seen later, after this world
>>>>> is destroyed and a new Earth is created.
>>>>
>>>> Where do you "see" the Kingdom of God now?
>>>>
>>>> ::: vera :::
>>>
>>> Once again, Vera contradicts the Lord Jesus Christ!
>>
>> * VERA CONFESSES SHE IS NOT PART OF THE KINGDOM!!! *
>>
>> Since I happen to know Vera personally, I think you have
>> #1 misunderstood what she may have said
>> (there is a LOT of "misunderstanding" going on in here
>> #2 lied
>
>Hi John, my dear friend and brother in Christ,
>
>It is #2.
>
>Can you see that I put the "see" in inverted commas?
>Now It was becasue "Pastor" Dave claims that Jesus
>came back in 70 A.D., and that the Kingdom of God
>has been Spiritually only (that could not be "seen")
>in the Christian believers.
I did not misunderstand a thing!
The truth is, that you believe in a physical kingdom
and you were trying to claim that I must be wrong
in my belief, because the kingdom cannot now be
"seen". And by that, we both know that you meant
with the eye!
Thus, yes, you are confessing that you are not part of
the Kingdom of God that Christ spoke of, because He
called it a kingdom that is within us and cannot be seen!
Since you disagree with Him, yes, you are confessing
that you are not part of His Kingdom!
>It was a big mistake he made when he used the word
>"see", because he accuses the Christians that they would
>just stick with the "world".
It was YOU who used the word, NOT me!
>I did not write that the kingdom of God is not inside
>the believers, and Spiritual. But he confuses it with
>the new earth that we will get from God one day -
>which will be real, with real people with real bodies.
You believe that is the kingdom! Now you lie about it!
Or, you have changed your beliefs to acknowledge what
I have said and won't admit it and still won't let go of
your worldly view of it and still can't admit that Jesus
said that it is within and never once said it would be
physical and He told the Pharisees who asked about
the coming kingdom, flat out that it would NOT be
physical!
Once again, let's compare what YOU said, to what HE said:
***********************************************
On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 00:38:00 +0200, " ::: vera :::"
<vera...@lycos.com> claimed:
>> There are many who say that the Kingdom of God
>> is something that will be seen later, after this world
>> is destroyed and a new Earth is created.
>
>Where do you "see" the Kingdom of God now?
>
> ::: vera :::
Once again, Vera contradicts the Lord Jesus Christ!
Luke 17:20-21
20) Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when
the Kingdom of God would come, He answered them
and said, The kingdom of God does *NOT* come
with observation;
21) *NOR* will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’
For indeed, the kingdom of God is WITHIN YOU.
It does NOT come with observation.
It can NOT be pointed at.
And since you reject the fact that the Kingdom of God
is within and not without, you have just confessed
that *YOU* are *NOT* part of the Kingdom of God!
********************************************
::: vera :::
> On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 11:39:32 +0200, " ::: vera :::"
> Š 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
> may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
>>> x-no-archive: yes
>>> On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 19:10:46 -0700, Pastor Dave <no...@nowhere.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
>>>> On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 00:38:00 +0200, " ::: vera :::"
>>>> <vera...@lycos.com> claimed:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> There are many who say that the Kingdom of God
>>>>>> is something that will be seen later, after this world
>>>>>> is destroyed and a new Earth is created.
>>>>>
>>>>> Where do you "see" the Kingdom of God now?
>>>>>
>>>>> ::: vera :::
>>>>
>>>> Once again, Vera contradicts the Lord Jesus Christ!
>>>
>>> * VERA CONFESSES SHE IS NOT PART OF THE KINGDOM!!! *
>>>
>>> Since I happen to know Vera personally, I think you have
>>> #1 misunderstood what she may have said
>>> (there is a LOT of "misunderstanding" going on in here
>>> #2 lied
>>
>> Hi John, my dear friend and brother in Christ,
>
>
>>
>> It is #2.
>
> whispered JUST to you, dearest:
> <<< I know! >>>
<<<o-kay>>>
> ;-)
>
> I was HUMORING him.
whispered JUST to you, honey:
<<< I know! >>>
;-)
> Dave attacks EVERYONE. He-- like another of the same sort-- thinks
> that ONLY HE is RIGHT about every conceivable topic.
>
> Actually, there are half-a-dozen of them in here.
Yes, it is too bad.
> It's called "megalomania".
You are perfectly right. They think they know better than God Himself.
> If you are concerned, put him on your prayer list.
>
> Otherwise, I'd just disregard him.
>
> (I mean, if I spent the next 10 YEARS trying to "reason" with a
> certain someone [[ u no who ]], do you believe for a nano-second
> that person would change?
>
> " uh uh !"
You are right, John, and I can learn from you. You have really managed
to stay away from trouble. Great!
> There are those,
> 1 Brother Dave
> 2 u no who
> 3 ..
> 4...
> 5..
> Phar Lap
> Lobo
>
> Who LIVE to bring contention.
I could add a few more.
> (if you acknowledge them TOO much, they lap it up like cats with milk)
>
> And anyway, I've been trained by the best; Dave and u no who, and the
> other dozen or so KOOKS don't bother me!
>
> don't let 'em bother you!
No, I will not - as long as I have a friend like you - and some others
here as well...
> [[ Kisses, princess!! ]]
Thank you Prince John.
> John w
::: vera :::
::: vera :::
I was not talking about how I might call this liar, but I asked you why
he started a new thread with another lie about me?
>> That is evil, is it not, and a flat out lie as well. Does Preterism
>> really bring out the worst in people? "Pastor" Dave still sticks to
>> his lies even when they are proved under his nose.
>>
>> Any idea?
I will repeat it for you: Does Preterism really bring out the worst in
people like in "Pastor" Dave? Does Preterism mean you can call other
Christians a "piece of crap"?
Any idea?
> It certainly seems to bring out the worst in you! Usually I look to
> see what you have to say, but recently it has been rather negetive!
> You need to write about something else, and get your mind off all of
> these problems which so badly affect you!
I can imagine that you would love that idea. But do not hold your
breath. I will warn others of you and your "Pastor", be sure.
>>> The Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence!
>>> Whosoever will, may come in!
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Gatekeeper
>>
>> ::: vera :::
>>
>> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
>> He will wipe away from them every tear from their eyes. Death will
>> be no more; neither will there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain,
>> any more. The first things have passed away." (Revelation 21:4 WEB)
>>> <> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
>> --
>> ___________________________________________________
>> ::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::::::
>> ::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::::::
>> ::::::: http://www.e-sword.net :::::::
>> ::::::: http://alpha.org/default.asp :::::::
>
> Vera, I do not know you except by what I read here in the group. It
> seems to me that you have a testimony of believeing in Jesus, and
> testifying to what you believe. You do well when you stick to
Sir, you are not my teacher. Get that.
> what you
> know, but when you get involved in one of these running battles, it
> seems things spin out of your control pretty fast.
None of your business.
> I would suggest that if you can not stand the heat,
O)h,I can, and I even can without calling others names or lie about
them - go figure. Maybe you teach your "Pastor" to play fair for the
moment.
> stay out of the
> battle. If you jump into the battle, then do not complain about
> someone taking shots at your unsulied reputation, for it is certain
> that you are going to get muddied!
>
> Now when all the name calling, and mud slinging is done away with,
I do not call names, and I do not "sling mud" - that is reserved for
people like "Pastor" Dave, lying inclusively.
> I
> feel certain that the main result is going to be muddy faces! LOL, it
> reminds me of something my grandmother said, " A family that fights
> together, stays together!"
Worry about your own grandmother then. I will care about mine.
::: vera :::
Pastor Dave <no...@nowhere.com> typed:
> On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 11:47:00 +0200, " ::: vera :::"
> <vera...@lycos.com> claimed:
>
>
>> In news:59a3i8F...@mid.individual.net,
>>>>> vera ::: <vera...@lycos.com> typed:
>>
>>>> There are many who say that the Kingdom of God
>>>> is something that will be seen later, after this world
>>>> is destroyed and a new Earth is created.
>>>
>>> Where do you "see" the Kingdom of God now?
>>>
>>> ::: vera :::
>>
>>
>> This above was simply my valid question to "Pastor" Dave
>> with regard to the word "see" - as everyone can see. He
>> used this word while he always says that there will be no
>> kingdom of God that could be seen.
>
> You can lie if you want to.
Liar Dave, all can see what I wrote, namely a question to you:
>>> Where do you "see" the Kingdom of God now?
It does not imply your weird ideas at all. You are - like so often -
making things up only.
But that is why your father is not God but the father of lies.
> The truth is, that you believe
> in a physical, visible kingdom
I believe - and always have - believed in BOTH. Jesus is within me and
other believers now - but that does not mean that He came back in 70
A.D. The Kingdom of God came with the human Jesus Christ when He dwelled
on earth:
"But if I by the Spirit of God cast out demons, then the Kingdom of God
has come upon you." (Matthew 12:28 WEB)
Did Jesus cast out demons when on earth - long before 70 A.D.?
He repeated this in Luke, too:
But if I by the finger of God cast out demons, then the Kingdom of God
has come to you. (Luke 11:20 WEB)
But Jesus said to him, "Leave the dead to bury their own dead, but you
go and announce the Kingdom of God." (Luke 9:60 WEB)
The Kingdom of God was to be announced then when Jesus was on earth:
"But Jesus said to him, "Leave the dead to bury their own dead, but you
go and announce the Kingdom of God." (Luke 9:60 WEB)
And Jesus also announced, "I will not drink at all again from the fruit
of the vine, until the Kingdom of God comes." (Luke 22:17-18 WEB)
That was REAL wine that He meant, not metaphorical wine.
So the Kingdom of God is within the Christian believers - but Jesus
Second Coming is yet to come, and then the Christians will live and
reign for 1000 years with Jesus and get a new and perfect earth like
described in Revelation.
[snipped the rest of the bla-bla bluff to save newbies from running into
this Preterist Sectarian's trap - in my humble opinion. I recommend all
the interested people to go and find a good church in their
neighbourhood and ask the pastor. That is the best way to escape
Sectarians. These newsgroups are full of them - watch out!]
Gatekeeper
No, I looked, and you did ask me "How?" and I understood you meant
"why" which goes to his motive! With all the accusations of lieing
going on here the only way to assure that you are not accused, is to
stop posting until this little flame war is over! Otherwise, you are
as good a target as anyone, better than most! Especially since you are
one of the main sources for the many claims of him being a liar!
>>> That is evil, is it not, and a flat out lie as well. Does Preterism
>>> really bring out the worst in people? "Pastor" Dave still sticks to
>>> his lies even when they are proved under his nose.
>>>
>>> Any idea?
>
> I will repeat it for you: Does Preterism really bring out the worst in
> people like in "Pastor" Dave? Does Preterism mean you can call other
> Christians a "piece of crap"?
>
> Any idea?
>
I am a preterist, and I have called noone a Liar, or a piece of crap!
Even Fred, and he and I go back a ways, and he calls everyone Satan at
some point, and this has nothing to do with my preterism. No, I
prefer to talk about Jesus, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, and I
only enter these mud slinging contest, when absolutely necessary, and
then, only when there is a good bath promised shortly! LOL
Now as to why Dave uses this phrase, I suppose it is to needle you,
and get you all stirred up. Seems to be working. If you are really
bothered, then you should just let it pass, and then the pain will be
quickly over. As it is you have kept the subject alive, and hurting,
when I have not heard him repeat the phrase since the first time in
this discussion.
>> It certainly seems to bring out the worst in you! Usually I look to
>> see what you have to say, but recently it has been rather negetive!
>> You need to write about something else, and get your mind off all of
>> these problems which so badly affect you!
>
> I can imagine that you would love that idea. But do not hold your
> breath. I will warn others of you and your "Pastor", be sure.
>
>
Dave is not my Pastor, I have never met him, and I have held to the
position for almost 30 years. Long before there was an internet, and
all the resources that are available now. I would much more discuss
relevant topics with you than this mud slinging as well! Whether you
would be convinced is another subject, and not really my concern!
That is between the Lord and you. From what I have seen you write, I
suspect you have a pretty good idea of who He is, and it is just the
details that we vary on! And I am convinced, that He can sort out the
Details if we are willing!
>>>> The Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence!
>>>> Whosoever will, may come in!
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Gatekeeper
>>>
>>> ::: vera :::
>>>
>>> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
>>> He will wipe away from them every tear from their eyes. Death will
>>> be no more; neither will there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain,
>>> any more. The first things have passed away." (Revelation 21:4 WEB)
>>>> <> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
>>> --
>>> ___________________________________________________
>>> ::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::::::
>>> ::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::::::
>>> ::::::: http://www.e-sword.net :::::::
>>> ::::::: http://alpha.org/default.asp :::::::
>>
>> Vera, I do not know you except by what I read here in the group. It
>> seems to me that you have a testimony of believeing in Jesus, and
>> testifying to what you believe. You do well when you stick to
>
> Sir, you are not my teacher. Get that.
>
Ma'm, I do not desire to be your teacher, but you have been asking me
certain question, which I have tried to answer! If you do not want to
be taught, then don't ask questions!
>> what you
>> know, but when you get involved in one of these running battles, it
>> seems things spin out of your control pretty fast.
>
> None of your business.
>
You made it my business when you ask your questions! Sorry if you do
not like the answers!
>> I would suggest that if you can not stand the heat,
>
> O)h,I can, and I even can without calling others names or lie about
> them - go figure. Maybe you teach your "Pastor" to play fair for the
> moment.
>
>
Again, he is not my pastor, as to teaching him, I find that he says I
have taught him a few things, and similarly I have learned from Him!
But then I have learned from you as well, but that is what this whole
discussion thing is about.
>> stay out of the
>> battle. If you jump into the battle, then do not complain about
>> someone taking shots at your unsulied reputation, for it is certain
>> that you are going to get muddied!
>>
>> Now when all the name calling, and mud slinging is done away with,
>
> I do not call names, and I do not "sling mud" - that is reserved for
> people like "Pastor" Dave, lying inclusively.
>
>
His name is Pastor Dave, when you put pastor in quotes, you are
calling him names with any intended or unintended insinuation! That
you also seem to be stuck calling him a liar, is boring to the rest of
us, since you have made your point, now move on! Otherwise it does
seem that you are out of meaness calling him names!
>> I
>> feel certain that the main result is going to be muddy faces! LOL, it
>> reminds me of something my grandmother said, " A family that fights
>> together, stays together!"
>
> Worry about your own grandmother then. I will care about mine.
>
Oh, she loved the Lord, and long ago she was raptured to be with Him.
I don't have to worry about her any more. PTL, even my Mom has been
raptured as well, and I am sure the two of them are having a good
laugh thinking about the foolish squabbles that went on here.
I suspect the day will come, when we who love the Lord, will also be
in Glory, having a similar good laugh, about these discussions! When
we thought we were so wise, and had everything figured out, and had
all the right answers! LOL
::: vera :::
Pastor Dave <no...@nowhere.com> typed:
> On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 11:52:54 +0200, " ::: vera :::"
> <vera...@lycos.com> claimed:
>
>
>>> Everywhere I look! He is Lord over all! He reigns in righteousness!
>>> His Kingdom shall have no end!
>>
>> I did not ask you. I asked "Pastor" Dave.
>>
>> But I ask you how this "Pastor" can open up a new thread and claim
>>
>> "* VERA CONFESSES SHE IS NOT PART OF THE KINGDOM!!! *"
>>
>> That is evil, is it not, and a flat out lie as well.
>
> So now you wish to claim that you are part of the Kingdom?
> How does that work, when according to you, it isn't here yet?
The Kingdom of God is within the Christian believers. It came to the
earth when Jesus dwelled here. But you mix up the Kingdom of God with
the new earth and the New Jerusalem that God will give to His people
AFTER Jesus' Second Coming in the future.
So long sin is dominating the earth - the Preterists as well, which
everyone can easily see when having a look at your posting style. Sorry,
but when people call others a "piece of crap" the Kingdom of God does
not dwell in them, not to think of them going to Heaven in future.
Christians simply do not call other Christians such names.
::: vera :::
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. (Hebrews 13:8
NOs...@no.spam
wrote:
>
> Um.... PD... remind me where your church is located, how many Ph Ds
>and Th Ds are on your staff, how many doctorates YOU have, and where
>is your church's web page located? Oh! And how large your
>congregation is these days. Does it break into 4 digits? Does it
>break into 5 digits?
> Oh! Sorry! Does it break into double digits? (that is, more than 9)
>
>john w
An utterly ABSURD argument...
No church is perfect due to the fact it may have Thd's or Phd's on
its staff.
Conversely, no church is perfect because of its size.
It's the FAITH that counts, and the TEACHINGS .
You have this ALL wrong, John.
NOs...@no.spam
>
>It's called "megalomania".
Now now- you're not qualified to attempt to diagnose anyone.
Watch that in future.
NOs...@no.spam
<vera...@lycos.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> whispered JUST to you, dearest:
>> <<< I know! >>>
>
><<<o-kay>>>
>
>> ;-)
>>
>> I was HUMORING him.
>
>whispered JUST to you, honey:
> <<< I know! >>>
Good grief- when do you two plan to get married?
NOs...@no.spam
wrote:
>Bottom line, Dave, as I've said many times, the list of scholars I
>know by their first names, men I've shaken hands with and DEBATED, are
>a mile long.
>
>I would agree with any of them before I'd agree with you.
>
>I don't know how well you know Dr John MacArthur, but I know him.
>He would not agree with you.
>
>I know Dr John L Ogilvie. He would not agree with you.
>Dr Holland London, Dr J Sidlow Baxter
>
>the list is endless.
Blow and brag------ another sign and symptom.........
::: vera :::
So you would say that it is also not an acceptable expression for
Preterists? Would you take a dissociate yourself from using such terms
in general as a Preterist?
In other words: Do you think it is wrong for a Preterist to call others
a "piece of crap"?
> Even Fred,
I do not know Fred.
> and he and I go back a ways, and he calls everyone Satan at
> some point, and this has nothing to do with my preterism. No, I
> prefer to talk about Jesus, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, and I
> only enter these mud slinging contest, when absolutely necessary, and
> then, only when there is a good bath promised shortly! LOL
>
> Now as to why Dave uses this phrase, I suppose it is to needle you,
> and get you all stirred up. Seems to be working.
It is to insult us and to intimidate us and to chase us away so he can
post his stuff. No, it does not work. Not as long as I am here. :)
> If you are really
> bothered, then you should just let it pass,
Tell this to your dear Brother Dave.
> and then the pain will be
> quickly over.
Oh - how gracious! LOL
> As it is you have kept the subject alive, and hurting,
> when I have not heard him repeat the phrase since the first time in
> this discussion.
You simply want me and some others to step back, so you can post your
false teachings to newbies. But not where I am - see what I mean?
>>> It certainly seems to bring out the worst in you! Usually I look to
>>> see what you have to say, but recently it has been rather negetive!
>>> You need to write about something else, and get your mind off all of
>>> these problems which so badly affect you!
>>
>> I can imagine that you would love that idea. But do not hold your
>> breath. I will warn others of you and your "Pastor", be sure.
>>
>>
>
> Dave is not my Pastor, I have never met him, and I have held to the
> position for almost 30 years.
How sad.
> Long before there was an internet, and
> all the resources that are available now. I would much more discuss
> relevant topics with you
Sorry, but I do not want to discuss your stuff here at all.
Nobody needs such a kind of brainwashing. Go to a Preterist groups and
teach there.
> than this mud slinging as well!
So stop it. We do not need any Sectarians.
> Whether you
> would be convinced is another subject, and not really my concern!
Wonderful! So stop discussing your trash here.
> That is between the Lord and you.
AMEN!
> From what I have seen you write, I
> suspect you have a pretty good idea of who He is, and it is just the
> details that we vary on!
Believe me, I have. But it is not just a "detail" we are talking about.
Preterism is blasphemy - that is what I call it. It does not leave any
hope, and it is simply false. Believe whatever you please, but stop
teaching it here and proselyting others.
> And I am convinced, that He can sort out the
> Details if we are willing!
I was willing - and HE has already done so.
I can discern the Spirits, and Preterism is a lie, a big fat lie. It is
up to you to believe in it, however.
>>>>> The Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence!
>>>>> Whosoever will, may come in!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Gatekeeper
>>>>
>>>> ::: vera :::
>>>>
>>>> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
>>>> He will wipe away from them every tear from their eyes. Death will
>>>> be no more; neither will there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain,
>>>> any more. The first things have passed away." (Revelation 21:4 WEB)
>>>>> <> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
>>>> --
>>>> ___________________________________________________
>>>> ::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::::::
>>>> ::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::::::
>>>> ::::::: http://www.e-sword.net :::::::
>>>> ::::::: http://alpha.org/default.asp :::::::
>>>
>>> Vera, I do not know you except by what I read here in the group. It
>>> seems to me that you have a testimony of believeing in Jesus, and
>>> testifying to what you believe. You do well when you stick to
>>
>> Sir, you are not my teacher. Get that.
>>
>
> Ma'm, I do not desire to be your teacher, but you have been asking me
> certain question, which I have tried to answer! If you do not want to
> be taught, then don't ask questions!
Asking questions does not mean to ask for being taught.
>>> what you
>>> know, but when you get involved in one of these running battles, it
>>> seems things spin out of your control pretty fast.
>>
>> None of your business.
>>
>
> You made it my business when you ask your questions! Sorry if you do
> not like the answers!
Not really. One question does not mean I want to hear more than the
answer to it.
>
>>> I would suggest that if you can not stand the heat,
>>
>> O)h,I can, and I even can without calling others names or lie about
>> them - go figure. Maybe you teach your "Pastor" to play fair for the
>> moment.
>>
>>
>
> Again, he is not my pastor, as to teaching him, I find that he says I
> have taught him a few things, and similarly I have learned from Him!
So you two might as well go to a Preterist group and teach each other
there!
> But then I have learned from you as well, but that is what this whole
> discussion thing is about.
Pardon me?
>>> stay out of the
>>> battle. If you jump into the battle, then do not complain about
>>> someone taking shots at your unsulied reputation, for it is certain
>>> that you are going to get muddied!
>>>
>>> Now when all the name calling, and mud slinging is done away with,
>>
>> I do not call names, and I do not "sling mud" - that is reserved for
>> people like "Pastor" Dave, lying inclusively.
>>
>>
>
> His name is Pastor Dave,
Wrong. His name is Dave Raymond. If he is a pastor, he is no Christian
pastor. Preterists are no Christians - they are just "Preterists",
nothing more. So open up a group for Preterists if there is not any
where you could go to.
> when you put pastor in quotes, you are
> calling him names
No, I am just saying the truth. He is no pastor. A pastor would not call
others names like he usually does, nor would a pastor teach the nonsense
he does. So sorry, he is no pastor. Do I call myself "the Queen"? No!
And do you know why I do not? It is easy, it is becasue I am not the
Queen. "Pastor" Dave is no pastor, either, at least not here in a
Christian newsgroup.
> with any intended or unintended insinuation! That
> you also seem to be stuck calling him a liar,
I would rather he stopped lying, so I could stop caling him what he is.
> is boring to the rest of
> us,
Your problem, not mine.
> since you have made your point, now move on!
Again, tell this to your "Pastor" Dave.
> Otherwise it does
> seem that you are out of meaness calling him names!
I have never called him names - but he did call me names - and many
others.
Now you start lying, too?
>>> I
>>> feel certain that the main result is going to be muddy faces! LOL,
>>> it reminds me of something my grandmother said, " A family that
>>> fights together, stays together!"
>>
>> Worry about your own grandmother then. I will care about mine.
>>
>
> Oh, she loved the Lord, and long ago she was raptured to be with Him.
> I don't have to worry about her any more. PTL, even my Mom has been
> raptured as well, and I am sure the two of them are having a good
> laugh thinking about the foolish squabbles that went on here.
So you mean you do not know exactly? How does that go?
> I suspect the day will come, when we who love the Lord, will also be
> in Glory, having a similar good laugh, about these discussions!
So you are not in Glory, though you believe that the Second Coming of
Christ has already taken place... Ooooops...
> When
> we thought we were so wise, and had everything figured out, and had
> all the right answers! LOL
>
>>> The Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence!
>>> Whosoever will, may come in!
>>>
>>> Gatekeeper
>>
>>
>> ::: vera :::
>>
>> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
>> He will wipe away from them every tear from their eyes. Death will
>> be no more; neither will there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain,
>> any more. The first things have passed away. (Revelation 21:4 WEB)
>>> <> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
>> --
>> ___________________________________________________
>> ::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::::::
>> ::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::::::
>> ::::::: http://www.e-sword.net :::::::
>> ::::::: http://alpha.org/default.asp :::::::
>
> The Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence!
> Whosoever will, may come in!
>
> Gatekeeper
::: vera :::
NOs...@no.spam <NOs...@no.spam> typed:
Why? We are brother and sister in Christ, and that is why we love one
another.
:-) Wanna join? :-)
::: vera :::
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
But now faith, hope, and love remain -- these three. The greatest of
these is love.
(1 Corinthians 13:13 WEB)
::: vera :::
Gatekeeper <gatekeepe...@hotmail.com> typed:
> On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 21:08:40 -0400, ^^^Sog wrote:
>
>> Path:
>> news.qwest.net!mpls-num-01.inet.qwest.net!mpls-txt-04.inet.qwest.net!feed.news.qwest.net!mpls-nntp-01.inet.qwest.net!multikabel.net!feed10.multikabel.net!feed.xsnews.nl!border-1.ams.xsnews.nl!208.49.83.154.MISMATCH!uns-out.usenetserver.com!news.usenetserver.com!pc03.usenetserver.com!FUSE.NET-a2kHrUvQQWlmc!not-for-mail
>> Reply-To: "^^^Sog" <So...@no.smail.7722229706no.cow.com>
>> From: "^^^Sog" <So...@no.smail.775309029no.cow.com>
>> Newsgroups:
>> alt.christnet.christianlife,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic,alt.christnet.evangelical,alt.religion.christian.baptist
>> References: <i5bv23puobc3aa1d1...@4ax.com>
>> <59a3i8F...@mid.individual.net>
>> <17n4svl59dmu3.j...@40tude.net>
>> <462ff343$0$5749$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au>
>> Subject: Re: Kingdom of God
>> X-Priority: 3
>> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028
>> Message-ID: <23a50$462ffbee$d066ef45$20...@FUSE.NET>
>> X-Complaints-To: ab...@usenetserver.com
>> Organization: UseNetServer.com
>> Lines: 55
>> X-Trace: 23a50462ffbee75c34ae020281
>> Xref: news.qwest.net alt.christnet.christianlife:657312
>> alt.religion.christian:1594908 alt.messianic:419900
>> alt.christnet.evangelical:221244
>> alt.religion.christian.baptist:988690
>>
>>
>> "r m" <rm@hotmailDOTcom> wrote in message
>> news:462ff343$0$5749$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>>>
>>> "Gatekeeper" <gatekeepe...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:17n4svl59dmu3.j...@40tude.net...
>>>> On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 00:38:00 +0200, ::: vera ::: wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> There are many who say that the Kingdom of God
>>>>>> is something that will be seen later, after this world
>>>>>> is destroyed and a new Earth is created.
>>>>>
>>>>> Where do you "see" the Kingdom of God now?
>>>
>>> King rules. Jesus proclaimed His coming Kingdom (e.g. Mat 3:2),
>>> and claimed to be King (Joh 18:37). That is; where God rules in
>>> the hearts of men.
>>>
>>> In a temporal sense: the Kingdom is expresssed as past (e.g. Col
>>> 1:13), present (e.g. 1Cor 4:20), or future (2Tim 4:18). So, in a
>>> way there is a timelessness about it (e.g. Heb 1:8).
>>>
>>> Cheers.
>>
>> Where God rules, that's a good way to think about the kingdom, past,
>> present, and future, yes very good insight.
>> But my problem, yeah, you knew this was coming, yes my problem is
>> with that
>> tag line, The Eastgate is open?
>> Any thoughts on that?
>>
>> SOG
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>> ::: vera :::
>>>>>
>>>>> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
>>>>> He will wipe away from them every tear from their eyes. Death
>>>>> will be no more; neither will there be mourning, nor crying, nor
>>>>> pain, any more. The first things have passed away." (Revelation
>>>>> 21:4 WEB)
>>>>>> <> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
>>>>
>>>> Everywhere I look! He is Lord over all! He reigns in righteousness!
>>>> His Kingdom shall have no end!
>>>>
>>>> Whosoever will, may come in!
>>>>
>>>> Gatekeeper
>>>
>>>
>
> name to use, I was given the phrase and the name Gatekeeper.
>
> I was taught by the dispensationalist that Jesus would enter the New
> Jerusalem through the Eastgate which had been sealed shut by invaders
> who thought they could keep God out of the city by sealing the
> Eastgate as prophesied. I have come to believe that Jesus has already
> returned and is reigning in Glory from the Throne in the New
> Jerusalem, which means that the Eastgate has already been opened.
>
> As Long as the Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence! The
> Eastgate would only be closed, should the King leave the City. But we
> understand that His reign is forever, so the Eastgate will remain open
> forever, as a sign of the Grace of God!
>
> My main mission as gatekeeper, is to announce this status of God's
> Grace. I do not open, nor close the Gate, I can keep noone in or out!
> I do encourage those who are on the outside to come in and experience
> the Grace of God for themselves, independent from any previous
> experience they may have had. They need to meet the King themselves,
> only then can they decide whether they desire to know Him or not,
> whether they will drink of the Water of Life which flows from under
> His Throne.
... and then become a Preterist. LOL
> The Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence!
> Whosoever will, may come in!
>
> Gatekeeper
::: vera :::
<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
He will wipe away from them every tear from their eyes. Death will be no
more; neither will there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more.
The first things have passed away. (Revelation 21:4 WEB)
::: vera :::
Gatekeeper <gatekeepe...@hotmail.com> typed:
> On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 10:33:08 +1000, r m wrote:
>
>> "Gatekeeper" <gatekeepe...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:17n4svl59dmu3.j...@40tude.net...
>>> On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 00:38:00 +0200, ::: vera ::: wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>>>> There are many who say that the Kingdom of God
>>>>> is something that will be seen later, after this world
>>>>> is destroyed and a new Earth is created.
>>>>
>>>> Where do you "see" the Kingdom of God now?
>>
>> A kingdom is not so much predicated by place and time but where the
>> King rules. Jesus proclaimed His coming Kingdom (e.g. Mat 3:2), and
>> claimed to be King (Joh 18:37). That is; where God rules in the
>> hearts of men.
>>
>> In a temporal sense: the Kingdom is expresssed as past (e.g. Col
>> 1:13), present (e.g. 1Cor 4:20), or future (2Tim 4:18). So, in a
>> way there is a timelessness about it (e.g. Heb 1:8).
>>
>> Cheers.
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
>>>> He will wipe away from them every tear from their eyes. Death will
>>>> be no more; neither will there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain,
>>>> any more. The first things have passed away." (Revelation 21:4 WEB)
>>>>> <> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
>>>
>>> Everywhere I look! He is Lord over all! He reigns in righteousness!
>>> His Kingdom shall have no end!
>>>
>>> The Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence!
>>> Whosoever will, may come in!
>>>
>>> Gatekeeper
>
>
> The essence of a Kingdom is the King!
>
> If you have a King, you have a Kingdom!
>
> We announce that He is King Now,
> We announce that His Kingdom is Now, Most Glorious!
>
> Our citizenship is already in His Kingdom above!
>
> Read Hebrews and find out that we have already come to the City of
> God! And we see that all the Gates of the City are wide open, and the
> City is full of Light, for our King is the Light of the City, and He
> reigns now, from the Throne of God found in the City of God. There is
> a River of Life that flows out from the Throne, through the City, and
> gives Life to all who will come and drink from the River of Life!
Nothing of what you write could prove that Jesus turned back in 70 A.D.!
That is the false teaching.
::: vera :::
<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
He will wipe away from them every tear from their eyes. Death will be no
more; neither will there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more.
The first things have passed away. (Revelation 21:4 WEB)
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
--
___________________________________________________
::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::::::
::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::::::
::::::: http://www.e-sword.net :::::::
::::::: http://alpha.org/default.asp :::::::
>
SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim
> His Kingdom shall have no end!
>
> The Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence!
> Whosoever will, may come in!
>
> Gatekeeper
where was the all-poweful jackass christian god the day the virginia tech
shootings were going on?
was he busy as usual, sitting on his FAT, LAZY ASS ?
Gatekeeper
Words are words! Another limrick from my childhood; "Sticks and
stones will break my bones, but names will never hurt me!"
I do not find it necessary to express myself as Dave has at times in
the past! But then I am not Dave, and I can not speak for him, though
I doubt very much, that the language he uses is because he is a
preterist! I have a hunch that it has more to do with your general
population demographic, inother words where you come from! Having
spent many years on the mission field, going out where sinners hang
out, in bars and such, I have heard much worse! It would do you good
to go witness of your Jesus in a bar, see souls saved, and then hear
them speaking afterwards much as they spoke before! Just a different
subject when they Love Jesus. And Yes I am sure you would help them
learn new words, or you would wash their mouth out with soap! LOL
>> Even Fred,
>
> I do not know Fred.
>
Fred A Stover, who comes out of his sequestered ark, from behind
closed doors where noone els is getting in, and tells us about unless
someone believes like a little child, that Fred!
>> and he and I go back a ways, and he calls everyone Satan at
>> some point, and this has nothing to do with my preterism. No, I
>> prefer to talk about Jesus, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, and I
>> only enter these mud slinging contest, when absolutely necessary, and
>> then, only when there is a good bath promised shortly! LOL
>>
>> Now as to why Dave uses this phrase, I suppose it is to needle you,
>> and get you all stirred up. Seems to be working.
>
> It is to insult us and to intimidate us and to chase us away so he can
> post his stuff. No, it does not work. Not as long as I am here. :)
>
So in other words, he gets you all worked up!
>> If you are really
>> bothered, then you should just let it pass,
>
> Tell this to your dear Brother Dave.
>
>
It does not particularly bother me, Though I did mention to him that
he needs to be aware of making a weaker sister stumble with his eating
meat! He has not used the phrase any more, so he may have listened to
me! Other than you keep bringing it up, I do not hear it from anyone
else, so I hope you recover from your stumbling soon.
>> and then the pain will be
>> quickly over.
>
> Oh - how gracious! LOL
>
>
>
There are many things which are said that it is easier to just let
past. Sometimes we have to pick our battles, and not get involved in
every little skirmish!
>> As it is you have kept the subject alive, and hurting,
>> when I have not heard him repeat the phrase since the first time in
>> this discussion.
>
> You simply want me and some others to step back, so you can post your
> false teachings to newbies. But not where I am - see what I mean?
>
>
Hey, it is a free world, and a free and open NG, You stand where ever
you would like, and I am sure that I will be able to continue saying
most anything I choose to say. Then those who want to listen, can
choose who they want to listen to. Wonderful world we live in isn't
it!
>>>> It certainly seems to bring out the worst in you! Usually I look to
>>>> see what you have to say, but recently it has been rather negetive!
>>>> You need to write about something else, and get your mind off all of
>>>> these problems which so badly affect you!
>>>
>>> I can imagine that you would love that idea. But do not hold your
>>> breath. I will warn others of you and your "Pastor", be sure.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Dave is not my Pastor, I have never met him, and I have held to the
>> position for almost 30 years.
>
> How sad.
>
>
No actually it has been wonderful! Initially I started out hanging
onto a dispensational life preserver! Hoping and looking for the day
that Jesus would come and pull me out of the drink! Since those long
cold, wet, dark days, I have found that there is a lot better place
prepared for us. But if you prefer to continue living their, then
enjoy!
>> Long before there was an internet, and
>> all the resources that are available now. I would much more discuss
>> relevant topics with you
>
> Sorry, but I do not want to discuss your stuff here at all.
>
> Nobody needs such a kind of brainwashing. Go to a Preterist groups and
> teach there.
>
>
I understand that this is an open Christian group, where issue are
discussed regarding Christianity. Eschatology is one of those issues,
and preterism is one form of eschatology, so no, I think I will stay
right here, but thanks for your suggestion!
>> than this mud slinging as well!
>
> So stop it. We do not need any Sectarians.
>
>
Sectarians, what are they? It sounds like you are using a word to big
for your understanding. So please inform me of what it means!
>> Whether you
>> would be convinced is another subject, and not really my concern!
>
> Wonderful! So stop discussing your trash here.
>
I and others, do not consider it trash, sorry that you do! If you
don't want to listen, please feel free to put cotton in your ears! or
move to another table yourself!
>> That is between the Lord and you.
>
> AMEN!
>
>
and Amen!
>> From what I have seen you write, I
>> suspect you have a pretty good idea of who He is, and it is just the
>> details that we vary on!
>
> Believe me, I have. But it is not just a "detail" we are talking about.
> Preterism is blasphemy - that is what I call it. It does not leave any
> hope, and it is simply false. Believe whatever you please, but stop
> teaching it here and proselyting others.
>
>
I do not see where preterism leaves no hope, for I have plenty of
hope, Love and Joy. If you do not find it consoling, then maybe there
is something wrong with the soul that is seeking consolation!
>> And I am convinced, that He can sort out the
>> Details if we are willing!
>
> I was willing - and HE has already done so.
>
> I can discern the Spirits, and Preterism is a lie, a big fat lie. It is
> up to you to believe in it, however.
>
Well your ability to discern spirits, is not witnessed to me by the
Holy Spirit, so discern away, and be a bitter old lady it sounds like!
>>>>>> The Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence!
>>>>>> Whosoever will, may come in!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gatekeeper
>>>>>
>>>>> ::: vera :::
>>>>>
>>>>> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
>>>>> He will wipe away from them every tear from their eyes. Death will
>>>>> be no more; neither will there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain,
>>>>> any more. The first things have passed away." (Revelation 21:4 WEB)
>>>>>> <> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
>>>>> --
>>>>> ___________________________________________________
>>>>> ::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::::::
>>>>> ::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::::::
>>>>> ::::::: http://www.e-sword.net :::::::
>>>>> ::::::: http://alpha.org/default.asp :::::::
>>>>
>>>> Vera, I do not know you except by what I read here in the group. It
>>>> seems to me that you have a testimony of believeing in Jesus, and
>>>> testifying to what you believe. You do well when you stick to
>>>
>>> Sir, you are not my teacher. Get that.
>>>
>>
>> Ma'm, I do not desire to be your teacher, but you have been asking me
>> certain question, which I have tried to answer! If you do not want to
>> be taught, then don't ask questions!
>
> Asking questions does not mean to ask for being taught.
>
>
Answering questions is a form of teaching! Whether you learn by
listening is a different matter!
>>>> what you
>>>> know, but when you get involved in one of these running battles, it
>>>> seems things spin out of your control pretty fast.
>>>
>>> None of your business.
>>>
>>
>> You made it my business when you ask your questions! Sorry if you do
>> not like the answers!
>
> Not really. One question does not mean I want to hear more than the
> answer to it.
>
Hey you will always get your monies worth here! :)
>>
>>>> I would suggest that if you can not stand the heat,
>>>
>>> O)h,I can, and I even can without calling others names or lie about
>>> them - go figure. Maybe you teach your "Pastor" to play fair for the
>>> moment.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Again, he is not my pastor, as to teaching him, I find that he says I
>> have taught him a few things, and similarly I have learned from Him!
>
> So you two might as well go to a Preterist group and teach each other
> there!
>
We could, and we do, we meet with other in small groups, where two or
three are gathered together, and encourage one another. Sometimes we
even meet here!
>> But then I have learned from you as well, but that is what this whole
>> discussion thing is about.
>
> Pardon me?
>
>
Oh yes, you have even taught me a few things! :)
>>>> stay out of the
>>>> battle. If you jump into the battle, then do not complain about
>>>> someone taking shots at your unsulied reputation, for it is certain
>>>> that you are going to get muddied!
>>>>
>>>> Now when all the name calling, and mud slinging is done away with,
>>>
>>> I do not call names, and I do not "sling mud" - that is reserved for
>>> people like "Pastor" Dave, lying inclusively.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> His name is Pastor Dave,
>
> Wrong. His name is Dave Raymond. If he is a pastor, he is no Christian
> pastor. Preterists are no Christians - they are just "Preterists",
> nothing more. So open up a group for Preterists if there is not any
> where you could go to.
>
>
Why, when we are having such a good time here?
>> when you put pastor in quotes, you are
>> calling him names
>
> No, I am just saying the truth. He is no pastor. A pastor would not call
> others names like he usually does, nor would a pastor teach the nonsense
> he does. So sorry, he is no pastor. Do I call myself "the Queen"? No!
> And do you know why I do not? It is easy, it is becasue I am not the
> Queen. "Pastor" Dave is no pastor, either, at least not here in a
> Christian newsgroup.
>
>
Every Sunday morning, there are Pastors calling folks names and
teaching nonsense all across America, and probably around the world!
What makes a person a pastor, is the calling of God on his life. Not
his education, degrees, or the words he uses. He might not even have
a very good understanding of the Bible, but he loves to care for God's
sheep. I have known some sheepherd in my life, and they were a rather
coarse lot with tabacco juice running down their chin, and smelly
clothes from carrying lambs across their shoulder. On the other hand
I also knew they would rather fight to the death, than have one of
their lambs be killed by a bear or mountain lion. They were also very
gracious to the people they met, and would invite you to a cup of hot
coffer most anytime day or night! Most pastors won't get out of bed in
the middle of the night, but I see Dave posting here and carrying for
the truth day and night! I see him caring for real people here and in
other newsgroups where other Christians would not think of going! So
yes I can see him as a pastor, and I can see you as the queen who
would not get her slippers dirty walking in the way of sinners, that
she could redeem one! So you may not call yourself Queen, but maybe
that would be a better name for you, more fitting!
>> with any intended or unintended insinuation! That
>> you also seem to be stuck calling him a liar,
>
> I would rather he stopped lying, so I could stop caling him what he is.
>
>
>> is boring to the rest of
>> us,
>
> Your problem, not mine.
>
>
So according to you he continues lying, inspite of your stategy, so
apparently your stategy is not working, and your persistance in
calling him a liar, makes you boring, which is your problem, not mine!
>> since you have made your point, now move on!
>
> Again, tell this to your "Pastor" Dave.
>
>
He has moved on, the train has left the station, and you were not on
board! LOL
>> Otherwise it does
>> seem that you are out of meaness calling him names!
>
> I have never called him names - but he did call me names - and many
> others.
>
> Now you start lying, too?
>
I guess everyone is a liar according to you! LOL
>>>> I
>>>> feel certain that the main result is going to be muddy faces! LOL,
>>>> it reminds me of something my grandmother said, " A family that
>>>> fights together, stays together!"
>>>
>>> Worry about your own grandmother then. I will care about mine.
>>>
>>
>> Oh, she loved the Lord, and long ago she was raptured to be with Him.
>> I don't have to worry about her any more. PTL, even my Mom has been
>> raptured as well, and I am sure the two of them are having a good
>> laugh thinking about the foolish squabbles that went on here.
>
> So you mean you do not know exactly? How does that go?
>
>
??? so how does what Go???
>> I suspect the day will come, when we who love the Lord, will also be
>> in Glory, having a similar good laugh, about these discussions!
>
> So you are not in Glory, though you believe that the Second Coming of
> Christ has already taken place... Ooooops...
>
>
Now you are trying to apply your understanding of being in Glory, and
the second coming, to what I believe! Sorry the shoes don't fit! You
will have to walk the extra miles in your own shoes! LOL
So I rejoice, for I have drunk from that river of Life that flows from
His throne! I have new Life, and Joy in the Spirit! Joy the world
did not give, and Joy the world cannot take away! For those of us who
walk in the spirit, whose eyes are set on the New Jerusalem, there is
only Joy forevermore! Revelations 21
And we have already come to the New Jerusalem! Hebrew 12
Pastor Dave
<vera...@lycos.com> claimed:
>In news:gsh133lsn8i5gggun...@4ax.com,
>Pastor Dave <no...@nowhere.com> typed:
>
>> On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 11:47:00 +0200, " ::: vera :::"
>> <vera...@lycos.com> claimed:
>>
>>
>>> In news:59a3i8F...@mid.individual.net,
>>>>>> vera ::: <vera...@lycos.com> typed:
>>>
>>>>> There are many who say that the Kingdom of God
>>>>> is something that will be seen later, after this world
>>>>> is destroyed and a new Earth is created.
>>>>
>>>> Where do you "see" the Kingdom of God now?
>>>>
>>>> ::: vera :::
>>>
>>>
>>> This above was simply my valid question to "Pastor" Dave
>>> with regard to the word "see" - as everyone can see. He
>>> used this word while he always says that there will be no
>>> kingdom of God that could be seen.
>>
>> You can lie if you want to.
>
>Liar Dave, all can see what I wrote, namely a question to you:
>
>
>>>> Where do you "see" the Kingdom of God now?
Which, as I said, was designed to imply that
my belief is wrong, because it is not "seen"
and so, can't be established now.
Now you are trying to play word games.
The truth is, if you were not ashamed of your belief
in the light of Jesus' words in Luke 17:20-21, then
you wouldn't be trying to escape being pegged
down to your own belief, which you do hold,
contrary to what Jesus said about it.
Pastor Dave
<vera...@lycos.com> claimed:
>In news:01i133tftktv6pi70...@4ax.com,
>Pastor Dave <no...@nowhere.com> typed:
>
>> On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 11:52:54 +0200, " ::: vera :::"
>> <vera...@lycos.com> claimed:
>>
>>
>>>> Everywhere I look! He is Lord over all! He reigns in righteousness!
>>>> His Kingdom shall have no end!
>>>
>>> I did not ask you. I asked "Pastor" Dave.
>>>
>>> But I ask you how this "Pastor" can open up a new thread and claim
>>>
>>> "* VERA CONFESSES SHE IS NOT PART OF THE KINGDOM!!! *"
>>>
>>> That is evil, is it not, and a flat out lie as well.
>>
>> So now you wish to claim that you are part of the Kingdom?
>> How does that work, when according to you, it isn't here yet?
>
>The Kingdom of God is within the Christian believers. It came to the
>earth when Jesus dwelled here. But you mix up the Kingdom of God with
>the new earth and the New Jerusalem that God will give to His people
>AFTER Jesus' Second Coming in the future.
I am not mixing up anything. You did argue with me
about this before. You did say that the Kingdom of God
would be physically on Earth.
Are you saying that you no longer believe that
the Kingdom of God will be a physical thing?
If so, bravo! You have taken a step toward the Kingdom
and believing that Jesus is ruling now and has been!
And I am glad to see it, Vera! Amen!
Pastor Dave
>> As it is you have kept the subject alive, and hurting,
>> when I have not heard him repeat the phrase since
>> the first time in this discussion.
>
>You simply want me and some others to step back,
>so you can post your false teachings to newbies.
>But not where I am - see what I mean?
So you have declared war, while whining to anyone
who will listen, that it is us who is bringing a war
to you. And all the while, you insult everyone who
will not agree with you, while crying about being
insulted.
>> Dave is not my Pastor, I have never met him,
>> and I have held to the position for almost
>> 30 years.
>
>How sad.
Thank you for making my point!
>> Long before there was an internet, and
>> all the resources that are available now.
>> I would much more discuss relevant topics
>> with you
>
>Sorry, but I do not want to discuss your stuff
>here at all.
Then skip the messages, instead of responding
and calling us liars!
You have just admitted that you do not respond
for discussion, but only to attack!
>Nobody needs such a kind of brainwashing.
>Go to a Preterist groups and teach there.
In other words, Vera declares war until we leave
and yet, claims that she's the one being attacked!
>> than this mud slinging as well!
>
>So stop it. We do not need any Sectarians.
You make my point again! Gatekeeper responded
politely to you and here you are, accusing him of
doing the mud slinging, when you are the one
insulting him and me!!!
>> Whether you would be convinced is another
>> subject, and not really my concern!
>
>Wonderful! So stop discussing your trash here.
You don't get to decide where we can post
about our Christian faith!
>>> I do not call names, and I do not "sling mud"
>>> - that is reserved for people like "Pastor" Dave,
>>> lying inclusively.
>>
>> His name is Pastor Dave,
>
>Wrong. His name is Dave Raymond. If he is a pastor,
>he is no Christian pastor. Preterists are no Christians
>- they are just "Preterists", nothing more. So open up
>a group for Preterists if there is not any where you
>could go to.
More judgments from the woman who claims that we
are judging her! (:
>> when you put pastor in quotes, you are calling
>> him names
>
>No, I am just saying the truth. He is no pastor.
The truth is, you claim that you are not being insulting
and that you are the one being attacked and yet, you
are the one putting it in quotes, which you know is an
insult and you know what it means! That makes you
a liar!
Pastor Dave
<vera...@lycos.com> claimed:
>> As it is you have kept the subject alive, and hurting,
>> when I have not heard him repeat the phrase since
>> the first time in this discussion.
>
>You simply want me and some others to step back,
>so you can post your false teachings to newbies.
>But not where I am - see what I mean?
So you have declared war, while whining to anyone
who will listen, that it is us who is bringing a war
to you. And all the while, you insult everyone who
will not agree with you, while crying about being
insulted.
>> Dave is not my Pastor, I have never met him,
>> and I have held to the position for almost
>> 30 years.
>
>How sad.
Thank you for making my point!
>> Long before there was an internet, and
>> all the resources that are available now.
>> I would much more discuss relevant topics
>> with you
>
>Sorry, but I do not want to discuss your stuff
>here at all.
Then skip the messages, instead of responding
and calling us liars!
You have just admitted that you do not respond
for discussion, but only to attack!
>Nobody needs such a kind of brainwashing.
>Go to a Preterist groups and teach there.
In other words, Vera declares war until we leave
and yet, claims that she's the one being attacked!
>> than this mud slinging as well!
>
>So stop it. We do not need any Sectarians.
You make my point again! Gatekeeper responded
politely to you and here you are, accusing him of
doing the mud slinging, when you are the one
insulting him and me!!!
>> Whether you would be convinced is another
>> subject, and not really my concern!
>
>Wonderful! So stop discussing your trash here.
You don't get to decide where we can post
about our Christian faith!
>>> I do not call names, and I do not "sling mud"
>>> - that is reserved for people like "Pastor" Dave,
>>> lying inclusively.
>>
>> His name is Pastor Dave,
>
>Wrong. His name is Dave Raymond. If he is a pastor,
>he is no Christian pastor. Preterists are no Christians
>- they are just "Preterists", nothing more. So open up
>a group for Preterists if there is not any where you
>could go to.
More judgments from the woman who claims that we
are judging her! (:
>> when you put pastor in quotes, you are calling
>> him names
>
>No, I am just saying the truth. He is no pastor.
The truth is, you claim that you are not being insulting
Pastor Dave
<gatekeepe...@hotmail.com> claimed:
>> You simply want me and some others to step back, so you can post your
>> false teachings to newbies. But not where I am - see what I mean?
>
>Hey, it is a free world, and a free and open NG, You stand where ever
>you would like, and I am sure that I will be able to continue saying
>most anything I choose to say. Then those who want to listen, can
>choose who they want to listen to. Wonderful world we live in isn't
>it!
See below.
>> Sorry, but I do not want to discuss your stuff here at all.
>>
>> Nobody needs such a kind of brainwashing. Go to a Preterist groups and
>> teach there.
>
>I understand that this is an open Christian group, where issue are
>discussed regarding Christianity. Eschatology is one of those issues,
>and preterism is one form of eschatology, so no, I think I will stay
>right here, but thanks for your suggestion!
Wanna see something funny? Here's "U2 Fan" talking about me:
****************************************************
Dave up to usual deception, well we have removed all your
posts from being accessable from outside the usa in most
areas.
$ login : root pwd Internet666MainServer
$ rm-r *Dave
all Dave's are now gone, sweet bliss
if someone would give me the password for DC then I can
wipe you out in all america also.
*****************************************************
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!
Is that too funny, or what?! :)
CB
wrote:
>x-no-archive: yes
>On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 23:28:47 +0200, " ::: vera :::"
><vera...@lycos.com> wrote:
> Š 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
>may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
>Don't mind "Gate"; he's so deluded he believes the sign gifts are
>still active!
> I continue to ask him to send me some video of him raising the dead,
>of him walking on water... little stuff like that.
>
> So far, I've received no video of him raising the dead or of him
>growing back arms and legs and eyes and parts of brains blown away by
>the war!
Have any of your brains grown back?
::: vera :::
Pastor Dave <no...@nowhere.com> typed:
> On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 23:10:30 +0200, " ::: vera :::"
> <vera...@lycos.com> claimed:
>
>
>>> As it is you have kept the subject alive, and hurting,
>>> when I have not heard him repeat the phrase since
>>> the first time in this discussion.
>>
>> You simply want me and some others to step back,
>> so you can post your false teachings to newbies.
>> But not where I am - see what I mean?
>
> So you have declared war, while whining to anyone
> who will listen, that it is us who is bringing a war
> to you. And all the while, you insult everyone who
> will not agree with you, while crying about being
> insulted.
Bringing war to ACC was the first thing you did in ACC when you came
here, and you have never stopped.
>>> Dave is not my Pastor, I have never met him,
>>> and I have held to the position for almost
>>> 30 years.
>>
>> How sad.
>
> Thank you for making my point!
Oh, I did not know you also thought it was sad.
>>> Long before there was an internet, and
>>> all the resources that are available now.
>>> I would much more discuss relevant topics
>>> with you
>>
>> Sorry, but I do not want to discuss your stuff
>> here at all.
>
> Then skip the messages, instead of responding
> and calling us liars!
Not as long as you lie, and have not taken back your lies.
> You have just admitted that you do not respond
> for discussion, but only to attack!
Oh dear - who would ever believe you this.
>> Nobody needs such a kind of brainwashing.
>> Go to a Preterist groups and teach there.
>
> In other words, Vera declares war until we leave
> and yet, claims that she's the one being attacked!
Just stop teaching falsely. Sing Christian songs together with the
others, and praise the Lord with them
>>> than this mud slinging as well!
>>
>> So stop it. We do not need any Sectarians.
>
> You make my point again! Gatekeeper responded
> politely to you and here you are, accusing him of
> doing the mud slinging, when you are the one
> insulting him and me!!!
One can also teach falsely and politely. Being polite does not make
false teaching right. When you Sectarians come here, you are causing
trouble, discord and strife. I have never seen anything else from you,
polite like Gatekeeper, or anti-social like you.
>>> Whether you would be convinced is another
>>> subject, and not really my concern!
>>
>> Wonderful! So stop discussing your trash here.
>
> You don't get to decide where we can post
> about our Christian faith!
How sad.
>>>> I do not call names, and I do not "sling mud"
>>>> - that is reserved for people like "Pastor" Dave,
>>>> lying inclusively.
>>>
>>> His name is Pastor Dave,
>>
>> Wrong. His name is Dave Raymond. If he is a pastor,
>> he is no Christian pastor. Preterists are no Christians
>> - they are just "Preterists", nothing more. So open up
>> a group for Preterists if there is not any where you
>> could go to.
>
> More judgments from the woman who claims that we
> are judging her! (:
I have never claimed that, and I really do not care if you do.
I claim that you lie - at least 100 times every day.
>>> when you put pastor in quotes, you are calling
>>> him names
>>
>> No, I am just saying the truth. He is no pastor.
>
> The truth is, you claim that you are not being insulting
> and that you are the one being attacked and yet, you
> are the one putting it in quotes, which you know is an
> insult and you know what it means! That makes you
> a liar!
You are no pastor, you are especially no pastor here. Period. It is
another lie to get more trust of other innocent people. Your church -
where you may be a pastor - has no legitimation at all - in other words,
you are Preterists, but no Christians.
::: vera :::
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. (Hebrews 13:8
::: vera :::
Pastor Dave <no...@nowhere.com> typed:
> On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 23:10:30 +0200, " ::: vera :::"
> <vera...@lycos.com> claimed:
>
>
>>> As it is you have kept the subject alive, and hurting,
>>> when I have not heard him repeat the phrase since
>>> the first time in this discussion.
>>
>> You simply want me and some others to step back,
>> so you can post your false teachings to newbies.
>> But not where I am - see what I mean?
>
> So you have declared war, while whining to anyone
> who will listen, that it is us who is bringing a war
> to you. And all the while, you insult everyone who
> will not agree with you, while crying about being
> insulted.
>
>
>>> Dave is not my Pastor, I have never met him,
>>> and I have held to the position for almost
>>> 30 years.
>>
>> How sad.
That was another double post by "Pastor" Dave - an attempt to spread his
spam into seven newsgroups.
::: vera :::
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. (Hebrews 13:8
::: vera :::
Pastor Dave <no...@nowhere.com> typed:
> On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 22:19:31 +0200, " ::: vera :::"
> <vera...@lycos.com> claimed:
>
>
>> In news:gsh133lsn8i5gggun...@4ax.com,
>> Pastor Dave <no...@nowhere.com> typed:
>>
>>> On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 11:47:00 +0200, " ::: vera :::"
>>> <vera...@lycos.com> claimed:
>>>
>>>
>>>> In news:59a3i8F...@mid.individual.net,
>>>>>>> vera ::: <vera...@lycos.com> typed:
>>>>
>>>>>> There are many who say that the Kingdom of God
>>>>>> is something that will be seen later, after this world
>>>>>> is destroyed and a new Earth is created.
>>>>>
>>>>> Where do you "see" the Kingdom of God now?
>>>>>
>>>>> ::: vera :::
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This above was simply my valid question to "Pastor" Dave
>>>> with regard to the word "see" - as everyone can see. He
>>>> used this word while he always says that there will be no
>>>> kingdom of God that could be seen.
>>>
>>> You can lie if you want to.
>>
>> Liar Dave, all can see what I wrote, namely a question to you:
>>
>>
>>>>> Where do you "see" the Kingdom of God now?
>
> Which, as I said, was designed to imply that
> my belief is wrong, because it is not "seen"
> and so, can't be established now.
Of course I wanted to point out how very wrong your belief is, and how
hypercritical when you say it is all just Spiritual, and then talk about
the Kingdom of God as if it could be "seen" (in quotation marks - I hope
you can see them this time before lying about what I have written).
> Now you are trying to play word games.
Another lie. It was a valid question, and all can see that.
You are losing it, "Pastor" (in quotation marks - which you also see)
> The truth is, if you were not ashamed of your belief
> in the light of Jesus' words in Luke 17:20-21, then
> you wouldn't be trying to escape being pegged
> down to your own belief, which you do hold,
> contrary to what Jesus said about it.
I am not ashamed of the Gospel at all. You, however, do not know what it
is - which would not be a shame, but you try to teach others, and you
are a false teacher who should stop and try it elsewhere, because you
will not get any more recruiters here.
How is Jerry, by the way?
bob young
Pastor Dave wrote:
> There are many who say that the Kingdom of God
> is something that will be seen later, after this world
> is destroyed and a new Earth is created. But I tend
> to refer to what Jesus said,
'Said' over two thousand years ago. you have nothing to base
this claim ion, it is tantamount to deception. the book you use
was not around three in three hundred Ad it was then translated
over and over. to claim what anyone was supposed to have said
that long back is painfully stupid.
> since our reading of
> other texts should be based on His words
See above
> and not
> what we want to read into other writings from books
> which are symbolic, such as Revelation, which may
> be the most symbolic book in the Bible and yet,
> is read by Dispensationalists, as if it is the most literal.
>
> So I ask a few questions, based on Jesus' words
See above
> and not
> that of Dispensationalists, who I believe have become so
> indoctrinated into their doctrines, that they filter the Bible
> through their doctrine, instead of the other way around
> and have come to believe that what they say is actually
> found in the Bible. For example, they say that...
> "The AntiChrist is found in Daniel", when in reality,
> Daniel never uses that word. But say that to them
> and they quote another passage that says, "little horn"
> as proof that Daniel said "AntiChrist" and claim they
> are synonymous. But where does THE BIBLE say that?
Talking books now?!!
[Time for me to say 'farewell and enjoy your dreams in the
clouds']
>
> It doesn't. Their doctrine does and that is my point.
>
> So let's see what Jesus said and let's ask some common
> sense questions and see what we come up with. You
> must answer these for yourself. But if you immediately
> go into a mode in which you are trying to protect your
> doctrine in your mind, then you have already admitted
> that your doctrine is not found in His words. And if
> these questions make you angry, then ask yourself
> why asking questions about what Jesus said, makes
> you angry. After all, I'm not preaching any doctrine
> at all here. I am only asking questions. Now since
> when is that something we should avoid?
>
> And these questions are not meant to invite answers.
> I ask them so that you may think within yourselves
> what those answers are. I hope that you lay yourself
> bare and strip all of your doctrine away, counting
> only on Jesus and His words and not what you were
> taught to think He said. If you can do this, God will
> surely bless you in the study that these questions
> should provoke. But even if you decide to pour over
> the Bible, searching out every instance of the phrase,
> "Kingdom of God", I believe that you will find the
> truth for yourself, with God's help, if you are not
> stubborn and are open to it. So may God bless you!
>
> Matthew 6: 31-33
>
> 31) Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall
> we eat? Or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal
> shall we be clothed?
> 32) (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:)
> for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need
> of all these things.
> 33) But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his
> righteousness; and all these things shall be added
> unto you.
>
> It is clear here, that Jesus is not talking about a physical
> kingdom. How were they to seek what they could not
> find, because it supposedly wouldn't appear for thousands
> of years yet?
>
> And it seems to me, that He was saying *not* to be
> concerned about the physical, because God takes care
> of that. But He never said a word about a future,
> physical kingdom. He related what God would take
> care of for us while we would normally be worried
> about food and clothes, which is in this world now.
>
> "But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the
> kingdom of God is come unto you." - Matthew 12:28
>
> Was Jesus casting out demons by the physical kingdom
> of God? If so, how? His power was Heavenly and Heaven
> isn't physical and there was and is no physical kingdom of
> God on Earth.
>
> "And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go
> through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter
> into the kingdom of God." - Matthew 19:24
>
> Now everyone knows that here, Christ is talking about
> salvation. So why switch gears? I mean, why claim
> that it is about the physical? Why would he say this,
> when those who are here to see this supposed earthly
> kingdom wouldn't have any trouble getting in at all?
>
> "Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall
> be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth
> the fruits thereof." - Matthew 21:43
>
> How can the "kingdom of God" be taken from those
> who never had it to begin with, if it is physical and
> we are still waiting for it?
>
> "And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God
> is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel." - Mark 1:15
>
> Why would Jesus preach that "the time" was "fulfilled",
> if it would not be, until thousands of years later?
>
> And why would He claim that "the Kingdom of God"
> was "at hand", if it wasn't, remembering that He said
> that "the time" was fulfilled?
>
> In fact, that was the very first thing we have both
> John the Baptist and Jesus recorded as preaching...
>
> Matthew 3:1-2
>
> 1) In those days came John the Baptist, preaching
> in the wilderness of Judea,
> 2) And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven
> is at hand.
>
> "From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say,
> Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."
> - Matthew 4:17
>
> Luke 17:20-21
>
> 20) And when he was demanded of the Pharisees,
> when the kingdom of God should come, he answered
> them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with
> observation:
> 21) Neither shall they say, 'Lo here!', or, 'Lo there!';
> For behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
>
> Here, the Pharisees, who believed in a physical coming
> kingdom, in which the Messiah would sit on an earthly
> throne, questioned Jesus as to when it would come.
>
> Why did Jesus deny that the Kingdom of God would
> be seen with the eye, if it is going to be seen with
> the eye? Why would He say it is "within" us, if it
> is "outside" of us? Why wouldn't He just say...
> "It is coming and you will not be part of it, if you
> don't repent.", considering that He preached that
> very thing first (repent, because the kingdom is
> at hand)? No, He denied it!
>
> Now some will say that the Dispensational belief does not
> deny the spiritual aspect, but also believes in the physical
> aspect. If that is so, then why do they spend all of their
> time talking about the physical aspect and telling me how
> wrong I am and only start talking about the spiritual aspect,
> after being shown that they are backed into a corner by
> Jesus' words and still don't spend any time on it, but only
> state the spiritual aspect of it, so that they won't seem
> "wrong"?
>
> And why can they not admit that Jesus did *not* say,
> "But later, it will be physical."?
>
> Rather, He clearly denied a physical, earthly kingdom here,
> by stating clearly that it would NOT be seen with the eye
> and that it could NOT be pointed at.
>
> Why would He say those things, if it could be seen with
> the eye and could be pointed at?
>
> Surely, if it would later be physical, it could be seen with
> the eye and could be pointed at. Only a lunatic would
> deny that simple fact, amen? Yet Jesus said the opposite!
>
> --
>
> The torture of a bad conscience, is the Hell
> of a living soul. - John Calvin
bob young
::: vera ::: wrote:
> > There are many who say that the Kingdom of God
> > is something that will be seen later, after this world
> > is destroyed and a new Earth is created.
>
> Where do you "see" the Kingdom of God now?
>
> ::: vera :::
'Kingdoms' came along after chiefdoms. Real Kings we had to follow and
fight for. Some were good, some were bad, but if nothing else they
provided a degree of protection in early times.
So no wonder when we made up imaginary gods we put them in 'kingdoms', at
least these kings could not harm us and if we dreamed hard enough why,
coupled with real kings, they could provide a modicum of peace of mind.
There were real Lords too, less significant than kings but even so,
powerful people that we had to respect, obey and fight for.
So what do we do? We call our gods Lords, that will not harm us like real
Lords - Oh what a marvelous imaginary world we live in !
bob young
Gatekeeper wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 00:38:00 +0200, ::: vera ::: wrote:
>
> > Path: news.qwest.net!mpls-num-01.inet.qwest.net!mpls-bin-01.inet.qwest.net!feed.news.qwest.net!mpls-nntp-01.inet.qwest.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
> > From: "::: vera :::" <vera...@lycos.com>
> > Newsgroups: alt.christnet.christianlife,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic,alt.christnet.evangelical,alt.religion.christian.baptist
> > Subject: Re: Kingdom of God
> > Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 00:38:00 +0200
> > Lines: 21
> > Message-ID: <59a3i8F...@mid.individual.net>
> > References: <i5bv23puobc3aa1d1...@4ax.com>
> > X-Trace: individual.net QzOE95SwkilDvG5brcz6cQ8gFfDxQNNehAHXl6YDOEncWcYZtp
> > X-Priority: 3
> > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> > X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028
> > X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
> > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028
> > Xref: news.qwest.net alt.christnet.christianlife:657283 alt.religion.christian:1594869 alt.messianic:419892 alt.christnet.evangelical:221229 alt.religion.christian.baptist:988641
> >
> >> There are many who say that the Kingdom of God
> >> is something that will be seen later, after this world
> >> is destroyed and a new Earth is created.
> >
> > Where do you "see" the Kingdom of God now?
> >
> > ::: vera :::
> >
> > <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
> > He will wipe away from them every tear from their eyes. Death will be no
> > more; neither will there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more.
> > The first things have passed away." (Revelation 21:4 WEB)
> >><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
>
> Everywhere I look! He is Lord over all! He reigns in righteousness!
> His Kingdom shall have no end!
Kindly refer to my early post vis-a-vis Kingdoms, Kings and Lords
bob young
r m wrote:
> "Gatekeeper" <gatekeepe...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:17n4svl59dmu3.j...@40tude.net...
> > On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 00:38:00 +0200, ::: vera ::: wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> >>> There are many who say that the Kingdom of God
> >>> is something that will be seen later, after this world
> >>> is destroyed and a new Earth is created.
> >>
> >> Where do you "see" the Kingdom of God now?
>
> A kingdom is not so much predicated by place and time but where the King
> rules. Jesus proclaimed His coming Kingdom
Impossible, without lying and/or deceiving, to claim what anyone said over two
thousand years ago.
Oh and by the way, earlier than the years three hundred A.D. there was no such
thing as a bible
> (e.g. Mat 3:2), and claimed to
> be King (Joh 18:37). That is; where God rules in the hearts of men.
>
> In a temporal sense: the Kingdom is expresssed as past (e.g. Col 1:13),
> present (e.g. 1Cor 4:20), or future (2Tim 4:18). So, in a way there is a
> timelessness about it (e.g. Heb 1:8).
>
> Cheers.
>
> >> ::: vera :::
> >>
> >> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
> >> He will wipe away from them every tear from their eyes. Death will be no
> >> more; neither will there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more.
> >> The first things have passed away." (Revelation 21:4 WEB)
> >>><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
> >
> > Everywhere I look! He is Lord over all! He reigns in righteousness!
> > His Kingdom shall have no end!
> >
bob young
^^^Sog wrote:
> "r m" <rm@hotmailDOTcom> wrote in message
> news:462ff343$0$5749$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> >
> > "Gatekeeper" <gatekeepe...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:17n4svl59dmu3.j...@40tude.net...
> >> On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 00:38:00 +0200, ::: vera ::: wrote:
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> >>>> There are many who say that the Kingdom of God
> >>>> is something that will be seen later, after this world
> >>>> is destroyed and a new Earth is created.
> >>>
> >>> Where do you "see" the Kingdom of God now?
> >
> > A kingdom is not so much predicated by place and time but where the King
> > rules. Jesus proclaimed His coming Kingdom (e.g. Mat 3:2), and claimed to
> > be King (Joh 18:37). That is; where God rules in the hearts of men.
> >
> > In a temporal sense: the Kingdom is expresssed as past (e.g. Col 1:13),
> > present (e.g. 1Cor 4:20), or future (2Tim 4:18). So, in a way there is a
> > timelessness about it (e.g. Heb 1:8).
> >
> > Cheers.
>
> Where God rules, that's a good way to think about the kingdom, past,
> present, and future, yes very good insight.
> But my problem, yeah, you knew this was coming, yes my problem is with that
> tag line, The Eastgate is open?
> Any thoughts on that?
>
> SOG
My only thoughts are, going by your handle, you claim to be the Son of God
Which means you need to get help and soon.
bob young
Pastor Dave wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 21:08:40 -0400, "^^^Sog"
> <So...@no.smail.775309029no.cow.com> claimed:
>
> >But my problem, yeah, you knew this was coming, yes my problem is with that
> >tag line, The Eastgate is open?
> >Any thoughts on that?
>
> The East Gate is where God entered the Temple.
So. let me get this straight, as I do not want to miss any finer points.
You are claiming here that a god actually entered a temple two thousand or more
years ago? Convenient that since such a claim cannot be verified.
What could be verified of course would be that same god entering a temple,
church or cathedral today right here and now.
Is it really surprising that there are more an more atheists today than ever
before?
>
>
> if you have any other questions about Temple
> history, i would be glad to help. You are a nice
> man and I know you seek knowledge and not pride.
bob young
NOs...@no.spam wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 11:32:13 -0700, john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Um.... PD... remind me where your church is located, how many Ph Ds
> >and Th Ds are on your staff, how many doctorates YOU have, and where
> >is your church's web page located? Oh! And how large your
> >congregation is these days. Does it break into 4 digits? Does it
> >break into 5 digits?
> > Oh! Sorry! Does it break into double digits? (that is, more than 9)
> >
> >john w
>
> An utterly ABSURD argument...
> No church is perfect due to the fact it may have Thd's or Phd's on
> its staff.
> Conversely, no church is perfect because of its size.
>
> It's the FAITH that counts, and the TEACHINGS .
Having faith in absurdities and then teaching same is bad enough,
but immersing children below age fourteen in such frivolities should be
criminalized.
Let them wait until reaching age fourteen and then let them make up their
own mind.
The universe revolves around the earth.
Stars are pinpricks in the heavens.
The world is flat (and on pillars)
Bats are a kind of bird.
Rabbits chew their cud.
There is enough water to flood the entire planet
Women were created from a man's rib
Rainbows are a promise from God
[Recognise anything?']
bob
Humanist Brit.
>
>
> You have this ALL wrong, John.
bob young
r m wrote:
> "^^^Sog" <So...@no.smail.775309029no.cow.com> wrote in message
> news:23a50$462ffbee$d066ef45$20...@FUSE.NET...
> >
> > "r m" <rm@hotmailDOTcom> wrote in message
> > news:462ff343$0$5749$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> >>
> >> "Gatekeeper" <gatekeepe...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:17n4svl59dmu3.j...@40tude.net...
> >>> On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 00:38:00 +0200, ::: vera ::: wrote:
> >>
> >> [snip]
> >>
> >>>>> There are many who say that the Kingdom of God
> >>>>> is something that will be seen later, after this world
> >>>>> is destroyed and a new Earth is created.
> >>>>
> >>>> Where do you "see" the Kingdom of God now?
> >>
> >> A kingdom is not so much predicated by place and time but where the King
> >> rules. Jesus proclaimed His coming Kingdom (e.g. Mat 3:2), and claimed
> >> to be King (Joh 18:37). That is; where God rules in the hearts of men.
> >>
> >> In a temporal sense: the Kingdom is expresssed as past (e.g. Col 1:13),
> >> present (e.g. 1Cor 4:20), or future (2Tim 4:18). So, in a way there is
> >> a timelessness about it (e.g. Heb 1:8).
> >>
> >> Cheers.
> >
> > Where God rules, that's a good way to think about the kingdom, past,
> > present, and future, yes very good insight.
> > But my problem, yeah, you knew this was coming, yes my problem is with
> > that tag line, The Eastgate is open?
> > Any thoughts on that?
>
> I have two lines of thought at the moment.
>
> 1. While Christ "ascended on high" (Eph 4:8),
In that old book they had 'Him' ascending to the clouds.
May I remind you, that is where we now fly commercial passenger jet aircraft
and that same location is where primitives thought their gods were located
- hence the mythical story of a prophet climbing to a mountain top to talk to
one of them
[no witnesses of course]
> He declared that He had
> finished His work (i.e. Joh 19:30) and having no more work to do, He "sat
> down" (Heb 10:12) which happens to be Heaven (Heb 8:1).
>
> 2. This is where Ps 68 probably gives us some background. For this
> psalm speaks of victorious God triumphant over His enemies returning to His
> place of abode where He rules and so receive gifts from them. This is
> picked up in Eph 4:4ff where this is now ascribed to Christ, but in this
> case, He gives gifts to men (v.8) - His church.
>
> So, with that in mind, His church somehow forms part of His Kingdom rule.
>
> I'ts been too long ago since we last discussed about your Eastgate theme so
> it's a bit hazy now. From what I remember, it came to you by way of
> special revelation for you to minister in usenet. But the theme is an
> invitation to visit the the King Who is in residence. [correct me if this a
> bit off].
>
> My thoughts are that it isn't wrong as such. But I prefer to emphase that
> He reached out to establish His Kingdom (1Pet 2:9-10).
>
> What sayest thou?
>
> >
> > SOG
bob young
^^^Sog wrote:
> "Gatekeeper" <gatekeepe...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1sdv2wfc5ad5n$.16j6900ehxs0l.dlg@40tude.net...
> >> 1. While Christ "ascended on high" (Eph 4:8), He declared that He had
> > You are right on! I have no problem to understand that He reached
> > out, and continues to reach out with His rod of Iron to establish His
> > Kingdom! Glory! For His Word goes out over all of creation, and will
> > not return unto Him Void! Have not all of us who have entered His
> > Kingdom, heard His voice calling us from darkness unto Light!
> >
> >
> > The Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence!
> > Whosoever will, may come in!
> >
> > Gatekeeper
>
> Ok, this the second or third time this scripture flashed accross my spirit
> man.
> For He has delivered us from the power of darkness and has translated us
> into the kingdom of ...................His dear Son;
..............I thought that was you !
>
>
> (Colossians 1:13)
bob young
Gatekeeper wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 00:04:42 -0400, ^^^Sog wrote:
>
> > "^^^Sog" <So...@no.smail.775309029no.cow.com> wrote in message
> > news:42135$463024d5$d066ef45$64...@FUSE.NET...
> >> into the kingdom of His dear Son;
> >>
> >> (Colossians 1:13)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > Man did I feel that one when I hit the send button!
> >
> > ~Sog
>
> And I when I read it! PTL
>
> I believe you are getting the message!
>
> When we announce that Jesus is Lord, we are not speaking platitudes,
> we are shaking the foundations of Heaven! Even the Angels stand in
> amazement!
Angels? Females with wings sprouting from their shoulders ! ? Groan
A thousand years ago a good majority of living humanity could be made to swallow
such banal ideas,
thank goodness today it remains in the realms of just a few crack pots.
>
>
> The Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence!
> Whosoever will, may come in!
Kindly refer to 'crackpots' above
>
>
> Gatekeeper
Jani
"john w @yahoo.com>" <johnw<no> wrote in message
news:p6f333l5kih6np2mv...@4ax.com...
> x-no-archive: yes
[]
> You would be AMAZED (maybe you wouldn't), the different disciples I've
> studied, (theatre, writing, humor, public speaking, psychology,
> journalism) in which Jesus' name comes up.
>
> The prof will say, "da da da da da" (point) " And an EXCELLENT
> example of how this is done is Jesus Christ, in Mark ______, where He
> said, "_________." The prof: "Not that I'm a Christian, but I believe
> in giving a person their due, and Jesus knew how to _____!"
Funny that. I've never heard an academic who wasn't *very* heavily
influenced by their christianity come up with such examples, especially in
subject fields unrelated to religion; reason being, of course, that there
are usually better examples, and ones which more quickly spring to mind,
from other sources.
Jani
Pastor Dave
<vera...@lycos.com> claimed:
>>>>>> Where do you "see" the Kingdom of God now?
>>
>> Which, as I said, was designed to imply that
>> my belief is wrong, because it is not "seen"
>> and so, can't be established now.
>
>Of course I wanted to point out how very wrong your belief is, and how
>hypercritical when you say it is all just Spiritual, and then talk about
>the Kingdom of God as if it could be "seen" (in quotation marks - I hope
>you can see them this time before lying about what I have written).
Thank you for now confessing that my original response
was on point, which means that you have been playing
words game, trying to avoid the fact that your belief is
in contradiction to what the Lord Jesus Christ said!
And so, I quote my original response...
>> There are many who say that the Kingdom of God
>> is something that will be seen later, after this world
>> is destroyed and a new Earth is created.
>
>Where do you "see" the Kingdom of God now?
>
> ::: vera :::
Once again, Vera contradicts the Lord Jesus Christ!
Luke 17:20-21
20) Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when
the Kingdom of God would come, He answered them
and said, The kingdom of God does *NOT* come
with observation;
21) *NOR* will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’
For indeed, the kingdom of God is WITHIN YOU.
It does NOT come with observation.
It can NOT be pointed at.
And since you reject the fact that the Kingdom of God
is within and not without, you have just confessed
that *YOU* are *NOT* part of the Kingdom of God!
Pastor Dave
<vera...@lycos.com> claimed:
>>>> Long before there was an internet, and
>>>> all the resources that are available now.
>>>> I would much more discuss relevant topics
>>>> with you
>>>
>>> Sorry, but I do not want to discuss your stuff
>>> here at all.
>>
>> Then skip the messages, instead of responding
>> and calling us liars!
>
>Not as long as you lie, and have not taken back your lies.
And yet you said...
> We do not need any Sectarians.
Because you're reading every message and responding
to multiple statements in it. Therefore, you are a liar.
>> You have just admitted that you do not respond
>> for discussion, but only to attack!
>
>Oh dear - who would ever believe you this.
Anyone who reads your messages.
![Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]'s profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjWC6mzzawUrO7GCu7fCerkyuc2lhlBFoatj_KeGRNuuk3rG=s40-c)
Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]
[rubbish deleted]
'kingdom o god' simply refers to daniel chapt 7 and to sepher zekaryah
Barabbas was attempting to effect divine intervention, he failed , the
Romans threatened genocide,
then one has the scene in John 11:48
some mystery religion editor added verse 51
Michael Ejercito
wrote:
> > Everywhere I look! He is Lord over all! He reigns in righteousness!
> > His Kingdom shall have no end!
>
> > The Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence!
> > Whosoever will, may come in!
>
> > Gatekeeper
>
> shootings were going on?
In Heaven.
Michael
NOs...@no.spam
wrote:
>
> You don't even know the terminology!
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!
NOs...@no.spam
wrote:
>x-no-archive: yes
>On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:43:18 -0400, NOs...@no.spam wrote:
> Š 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
>may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
>>On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 11:27:09 -0700, john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Bottom line, Dave, as I've said many times, the list of scholars I
>>>know by their first names, men I've shaken hands with and DEBATED, are
>>>a mile long.
>>>
>>>I would agree with any of them before I'd agree with you.
>>>
>>>I don't know how well you know Dr John MacArthur, but I know him.
>>>He would not agree with you.
>>>
>>>I know Dr John L Ogilvie. He would not agree with you.
>>>Dr Holland London, Dr J Sidlow Baxter
>>>
>>>the list is endless.
>>
>>
>>Blow and brag------ another sign and symptom.........
>
>Pure, green envy! Not a sign that the Spirit lives within you!
>;-)
>
>Tell me, dearest Elaine, my mentor!
> How many theologians do you know? For once, kindly list all the
>scholars you know with a DR in front, and 4 or 5 Th Ds, Ph Ds, M Divs
>after.
>
>;-)
No need to. I'm not a useless braggart or liar. I DO know several, but
what is that to 'you'?
I see no need to carry on like a fool like someone I could name......
NOs...@no.spam
wrote:
>
> Aren't you doing what you tried to stop ME from going?
Brilliant Grammar, O wannabe 'wordsmith'...........
NOs...@no.spam
wrote:
>
> Jesus is not pleased!
Take your own admonitions, liar-johnnie, and apply 'em to YOURSELF.
Jani
> x-no-archive: yes
> On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:16:52 +0100, "Jani" <ja...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
> © 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
> may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
>>
> have come from a Christian background who left Christianity, but they
> learned one or two or three quotes that they liked and used.
I could certainly understand someone brought up in a generally Christian
culture being familiar with the "soundbite" sort of scriptural quotes that
everyone knows (and often misquotes, as you say ;) but in theatre,
psychology, public speaking, f'r instance, the Christian scriptures aren't
normally the source a non-Christian would pick as the "best" example of the
point they were illustrating. Any more than a non-Muslim would automatically
think of a verse from the Quran.
> I had one prof-- as I recall, he was an atheist-- who used to LOVE to
> lecture and when he got to one subject, he LOVED to misquote the
> Bible.
> All semester, I heard ONE quote, and he got it wrong.
> "Even the Bible says, "" Money is the root of all evil!""
> Only that's not what it says!
> It says "The LOVE of money is the cause of all sorts of evil!"
Ohhh, that one annoys me as well. It's not just a matter of getting the
wording wrong, it changes the whole meaning.
>
> I can't think of any others at the moment, but I probably heard
> half-a-dozen isolated Bible quotes from profs I am pretty sure weren't
> Christians, but they thought the Bible quote "fit."
>
> As for their being "better sources", you may believe what you like. I
> don't believe there are better sources, and I am constantly amazed at
> the people who believe they have invented a whole new outlook on an
> issue, and I have to laugh because they simply re-worded a Bible
> quote!
"Better" in the sense that they're more appropriate to the point being made.
I'm not saying that whatever-the-issue-is is *not* mentioned in the bible
somewhere, just that if the lecture or seminar is on a non-religious area of
study, then a non-Christian lecturer is unlikely to pick a bible quote as
illustration.
>
> I even heard John Travolta on Oprah recently ("ugh" to both). He said,
> "let me give you some Scientology here!" And he quoted the Bible.
> I wonder how John Travolta would have reacted if someone had read
> the Bible passage to him.
>
> Which amounted to, "Do unto others as you would they do unto you!"
>
> What John said was something on the order of, "If I want there to be
> peace in the house, I BETTER see to my wife's needs!"
>
> Jesus Christ, 1st C AD
Well, that may be Scientology and also Christianity, but it's not original
to either. It's in the Vedic scriptures, and I think in Judaism as well.
Jani