A few questions about God
Mike Barefield
First to those I offended by the way I did this, I would like to apologize.
Now, I would like to ask the questions again, but this time I will answer
for myself. If others would like to join in, that would be interesting for
discussion purposes.
Is the Father God?
My answer is YES!
Is the Son God?
My answer is YES!
Is the Holy Spirit God?
My answer is YES!
How many Gods are there?
My answer is One.
Thanks.
HeLovesYou
"Mike Barefield" <littlej_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7U6Tb.5258$jH6....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Mike that is how I believe too. May God illumine hearts and minds as He
speaks to us, mine included.
:o)
Diana
belief The Blessed Trinity.
Di
"Mike Barefield" <littlej_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7U6Tb.5258$jH6....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Chayil
"Mike Barefield" <littlej_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7U6Tb.5258$jH6....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Yes, Yes, Yes, One
>
Abby
"Chayil" <cha...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:L78Tb.8145$aU6....@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
:
: "Mike Barefield" <littlej_...@yahoo.com>
wrote in message
:
news:7U6Tb.5258$jH6....@newsread1.news.atl.earthl
ink.net...
times to a couple of posters.
: >
: > First to those I offended by the way I did
this, I would like to
: apologize.
: >
: > Now, I would like to ask the questions again,
but this time I will answer
: > for myself. If others would like to join in,
that would be interesting
: for
: > discussion purposes.
: >
: > Is the Father God?
: >
: > My answer is YES!
: >
: > Is the Son God?
: >
: > My answer is YES!
: >
: > Is the Holy Spirit God?
: >
: > My answer is YES!
: >
: > How many Gods are there?
: >
: > My answer is One.
: >
: > Thanks.
: >
:
: Yes, Yes, Yes, One
:
: Amen! To deny the Holy Trinity is to deny the
deity of God.
Abby Jeannette
Feather
>Yesterday I posted these questions several times to a couple of posters.
>
>First to those I offended by the way I did this, I would like to apologize.
>
>Now, I would like to ask the questions again, but this time I will answer
>for myself. If others would like to join in, that would be interesting for
>discussion purposes.
>
>Is the Father God?
>
>My answer is YES!
>
I heartily agree: Yes
>
>Is the Son God?
>
>My answer is YES!
>
I heartily agree again: Yes
>
>Is the Holy Spirit God?
>
>My answer is YES!
>
I heartily agree yet again: Yes
>
>How many Gods are there?
>
>My answer is One.
>
ONE, amen
>
>Thanks.
>
>
Welcome
Feather
>
>
>
JPF
"Mike Barefield" <littlej_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7U6Tb.5258$jH6....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Yes,
Yes,
Yes,
One.
Be blessed.
Joy <><
Brenda G. Kent
***now me:
Is the FATHER God? yes
Is the Mother God? yes
Is the son God? yes
Is the daughter God? yes
Is the Holy Spirit God? yes
Are the people God? yes
Are the trees God? yes
Are the stones God? yes
Is the water God? yes
Are the animals God? yes
Are the insects God? yes
Is Pan God? yes
Is Aphrodite God? yes
Is Diana God? yes
Is Isis God? yes
Is Hecate God? yes
How many Gods are there?
ONE.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"An eye for an eye just ends up making everyone blind."
-Mahatma Ghandi
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Diana
Love we know God if we "Know" God we know love.
Di
btw teasing you as you are talking about the pagan god of Diana right? or
whatever she was.
"Brenda G. Kent" <wt...@victoria.tc.ca> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.58.04...@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca...
glenn
know Love we know God if we "Know" God we know love.
Di
btw teasing you as you are talking about the pagan god of Diana right?
or whatever she was.
di,
i am crushed. i was noticing how you look for truth. how you stand up
against what you see as wrong, no matter who says it. as you truthfully
stated to vera who wrongfully accused you of standing for owd, against
tbc. (i had just read where you "got onto" owd... lol)... antway i
thought you may have been one of brens gods. lol. ps. no offence bren,
im just playin with di. i love ya much bren.
so diana, were you the porn monitor here?
i think i remember this correctly... anyway i couldnt get the latest
naughty link to open. maybe you could help me.lol
..glenn
Brenda G. Kent
> I am not God . God is Love that is what any of us need to know. If we know
> Love we know God if we "Know" God we know love.
>
> Di
***understanding your opinion...don't agree however.
> btw teasing you as you are talking about the pagan god of Diana right? or
> whatever she was.
>
****talking about the old Roman Gods and hey even you as well!
I see all of my friends as various faces of God! :)
It's difficult to explain if you have one idea of God..and for some it is
seen as blasphemous...however..if you knew what I meant by "everything is
God" you would understand that by that I am not talking about someone
being above others...or greater than...etc. I am talking about everything
that is ....is God. No one higher or lower than anyone else. To see God in
a person laying in the gutter ...to the Queen...to the trees etc. I figure
that the concept of More than...or better than..is a lie of ego who sees
each of us as separate and not in unity. If in Unity we cannot have
better thans or worse thans. Gods "arm" is not better than or worse than
the rest of God...so to speak.
No insults to anyones faith obviously...just my take on God. May not be
truth ...or truth to you...but it is truth to me.
love you,
Bren.
Diana
"Brenda G. Kent" <wt...@victoria.tc.ca> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.58.04...@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca...
Hi Brenda,
You have not offended me honey. One could look at it this way. We are made
in the "Image" of our Father our Creator so we do have God within us.
Di
Brenda G. Kent
***exactly how I believe Di..
blessings
Bren.
Solar Flare
>
> Is the FATHER God? yes
> Is the Mother God? yes
> Is the son God? yes
> Is the daughter God? yes
> Is the Holy Spirit God? yes
> Are the people God? yes
> Are the trees God? yes
> Are the stones God? yes
> Is the water God? yes
> Are the animals God? yes
> Are the insects God? yes
> Is Pan God? yes
> Is Aphrodite God? yes
> Is Diana God? yes
> Is Isis God? yes
> Is Hecate God? yes
>
>
> How many Gods are there?
>
> ONE.
Isaiah 57
4 "Against whom do you jest?
Against whom do you open wide your mouth
And stick out your tongue?
Are you not children of rebellion,
Offspring of deceit,
6 "Among the smooth stones of the ravine
Is your portion, they are your lot;
Even to them you have poured out a drink offering,
You have made a grain offering.
Shall I relent concerning these things?
13 "When you cry out, let your collection of idols deliver you.
But the wind will carry all of them up,
And a breath will take them away.
But he who takes refuge in Me will inherit the land
And will possess My holy mountain."
Mark and Bev Tindall
> Now, I would like to ask the questions again, but this time I will answer
> for myself. If others would like to join in, that would be interesting
for
> discussion purposes.
>
> Is the Father God?
>
> My answer is YES!
>
> Is the Son God?
>
> My answer is YES!
>
> Is the Holy Spirit God?
>
> My answer is YES!
>
> How many Gods are there?
>
> My answer is One.
There are MANY Christians who do not believe in the trinity.
The bible NEVER states exactly that "Jesus is God".
The bible never mentions the word "trinity".
These are denominational doctrines and not necessary to be a Christian.
For me salvation is through total trust in the One God of the bible. I view
Jesus as both the Christ and my Lord and my "door' to understanding more of
God. My salvation is as a result of God's love, mercy and grace.
One cannot fully know the infinite One God of the bible as God is
transcendent. Even the word "god" limits God. We can only speak of God in
metaphor.
...and some of my questions .......
Is the One God of the bible infinite?
When the finite Jesus was on earth did he fully contain the whole of the
infinite One God of the bible?
When the finite Jesus flew up in the sky to some distant heaven ( the
"ascension"), did the finite Holy Spirit he sent to earth fully contain the
whole of the One God of the bible?
Was the finite Holy Spirit ever on earth before Jesus sent him (after the
"ascension")?
Some Christians love God with ALL their MINDS as in the greatest commandment
given by Jesus the Christ (and my Lord).
No finite object can ever fully contain an infinite object.
That being so .........
The finite Jesus cannot fully contain the infinite One God of the bible.
The finite Holy Spirit (finite because he was sent from heaven to earth by
the finite Jesus) cannot fully contain the infinite One God of the bible.
DEMONSTRATE with logical and rational argument where I am wrong in this
thinking.
A vomit of bible verses is not proof of anything.
**********************
SHOT DOWN - Larry Norman ("In Another Land": 1975; Solid Rock Records)
i been shot down, talked about / some people scandalize my name / but here i
am, talking 'bout Jesus just the same / i been knocked down, kicked around /
but like a moth drawn to the flame / here i am, talking 'bout Jesus just the
same
i've been rebuked for the things i've said / for the songs i've written and
the life i've led / they say they don't understand me but i'm not surprised
/ because you can't see nothin' when you close your eyes
they say i'm sinful, backslidden / that i have left to follow fame / but
here i am, talking 'bout Jesus just the same
you wanna talk about my life, hey, listen to me / you've got your facts all
backwards, one-two-three / and spreading rumors and gossip is a real bad
game / the only name to spread is Jesus' name
i been shot down, kicked around / but like a moth drawn to the flame / here
i am, talking 'bout Jesus, brother / here I am talking 'bout Jesus, sister /
here I am talking 'bout Jesus just the same
Mark and Bev Tindall
> so diana, were you the porn monitor here?
> i think i remember this correctly... anyway i couldnt get the latest
> naughty link to open. maybe you could help me.lol
Have a look at the Christian site - Recovery Man
http://www.recoveryman.com/
Then go to the "Christian Porn Archives" at
http://www.recoveryman.com/dox/porn.htm
As the blurb says ...
"A must see! Video clips updated every week from the nudist Bible study held
on Tuesday evenings at Our Saviors Church of the Sexually Liberated
(currently studying Galatians 2). "
Trust me! .......It's humour!!! ;-)
Brenda G. Kent
> Isaiah 57
> 4 "Against whom do you jest?
> Against whom do you open wide your mouth
> And stick out your tongue?
> Are you not children of rebellion,
> Offspring of deceit,
>
> 6 "Among the smooth stones of the ravine
> Is your portion, they are your lot;
> Even to them you have poured out a drink offering,
> You have made a grain offering.
> Shall I relent concerning these things?
>
> 13 "When you cry out, let your collection of idols deliver you.
> But the wind will carry all of them up,
> And a breath will take them away.
> But he who takes refuge in Me will inherit the land
> And will possess My holy mountain."
>
***interesting stuff...thanks Solar Flare.
I'm not into idolatry myself....but it may work for others who are.
Bren.
glenn
thanks for the links...i loved the "12steps"
..glenn
Mark and Bev Tindall
> Is the FATHER God? yes
> Is the Mother God? yes
> Is the son God? yes
> Is the daughter God? yes
> Is the Holy Spirit God? yes
> Are the people God? yes
> Are the trees God? yes
> Are the stones God? yes
> Is the water God? yes
> Are the animals God? yes
> Are the insects God? yes
> Is Pan God? yes
> Is Aphrodite God? yes
> Is Diana God? yes
> Is Isis God? yes
> Is Hecate God? yes
>
>
> How many Gods are there?
>
> ONE.
God IS all (pantheism) or God is IN all (panentheism)?
My view is panentheism.
Mike Barefield
"Mark and Bev Tindall" <m_b_t...@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:401d...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
Thanks for the clarity that you are not a Christian.
>
>
Aaron's Rod ..
I think you missed the point here Mike,
you need to ask here if she's God.
A/R
>
> >
> >
>
>
Brenda G. Kent
***I am this way as well. God is in all but also transcends itself.
Hard concept to try and articulate...but those who feel it...feel it!
Blessings
Bren.
Brenda G. Kent
***there are different kinds of Christians Mike and it is up to God to
tell us who is Christian and who is not.
Blessings of tolerance
Bren.
Brenda G. Kent
***don't know if you are talking to Bev or me...
but I believe that ALL is God...
As I've already said.
Blessings
Bren.
Pastor Dave
<wt...@victoria.tc.ca> spake thusly:
He did and you are not.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
"In fact, there is a great deal more to the
creation/evolution controversy than meets the eye,
or rather than meets the carefully cultivated media
stereotype of 'creationists' as Bible quoting know
nothings who refuse to face up to the scientific
evidence. The creationists may be wrong about many
things, but they have at least one very important
point to argue, a point that has been thoroughly
obscured by all the attention paid to Noah's Flood
and other side issues. What science educators
propose to teach as 'evolution' and label it as fact,
is based not upon any incontrovertible empirical
evidence (scientifically proven facts, ed.), but upon
a highly controversial philosophical presupposition.
The controversy over evolution is therefore not going
to go away as people become better educated on the
subject. On the contrary, the more people learn
about the philosophical content of what scientists
are calling the 'fact of evolution', the less they
are going to like it." - Philip E. Johnson, Evolution
as Dogma: The Establishment of Naturalism
Pastor Dave
<wt...@victoria.tc.ca> spake thusly:
>On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Aaron's Rod .. wrote:
So you demote God to being a tree and worship trees.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
"The fact of evolution is the backbone of biology
and biology is thus in the peculiar position of
being a science founded on an unproved theory.
Is it then science, or faith? Belief in the
theory of evolution is thus exactly parallel to
belief in special creation. Both are concepts
which believers know to be true, but neither,
up to the present, has been capable of proof.
- L. Harrison Matthews, FRS, Introduction to
the 1971 edition of Charles Darwin's Origin
of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or
the Preservation of Favored Races in the
Struggle for Life
Pastor Dave
<wt...@victoria.tc.ca> spake thusly:
>On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Mark and Bev Tindall wrote:
That's simply a twist on witchcraft.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
I know God won't give me anything I can't handle.
I just wish He didn't trust me so much.
Chayil
"Pastor Dave" <nospam-...@minister.com> wrote in message
news:mi5t101hf5gj7lcuq...@4ax.com...
Brenda,
That makes no sense. If there are "different" kinds of Christians then why
would God need to tell us who is one and who is not? If God is
distinguishing between the various "kinds" of Christians (as you suggest),
then that is the evidence that He does NOT recognize all of these different
"kinds."
I agree that God alone decides who is a Christian. But by your own words,
that negates the possibility that all "different kinds" of Christian are
acceptable to Him. The question is not whether all those who claim
Christianity are Christian simply based on their confession. The question
is how does God define Christianity, and we see that definition in His word.
That is the measure (and you acknowledge above that there IS such a measure)
by which we use to recognize those who are Christian.
In His Service,
Chayil
Brenda G. Kent
> >
> >***there are different kinds of Christians Mike and it is up to God to
> >tell us who is Christian and who is not.
>
> He did and you are not.
****it is up to God.
Blessings of love and tolerance.
A Christian is what one does..not by what label they slap on themselves.
In my opinion,
Bren.
Brenda G. Kent
>
> That's simply a twist on witchcraft.
>
***it has nothing to do with witchcraft actually. Witchcraft is a craft.
Deity does not have to have anything to do with it.
Blessings
Bren.
Brenda G. Kent
> So you demote God to being a tree and worship trees.
>
****How would you glean that from what I had said? Why would I worship a
tree..when all is God? How is it demoting to see God within and
transcending all?
Would God worship its own arm?
Do you demote God to be a Bible and worship the Bible?
Blessings of peace
Bren.
Mark and Bev Tindall
> > God IS all (pantheism) or God is IN all (panentheism)?
> > My view is panentheism.
>
> Thanks for the clarity that you are not a Christian.
QUE?
Obviously you have no idea about Christian theology!
The One God of the bible is infinite therefore in all things He created but
also stands outside of that creation as the creation is finite.
Mark and Bev Tindall
(She blocks me so someone pass this on!)
> > >> > God IS all (pantheism) or God is IN all (panentheism)?
> > >> > My view is panentheism.
.........
> > >***there are different kinds of Christians Mike and it is up to God to
> > >tell us who is Christian and who is not.
>
> Brenda,
>
> That makes no sense. If there are "different" kinds of Christians then
why
> would God need to tell us who is one and who is not? If God is
> distinguishing between the various "kinds" of Christians (as you suggest),
> then that is the evidence that He does NOT recognize all of these
different
> "kinds."
Think "DENOMINATIONS"
There are many differing DENOMINATIONS in Christianity.
> The question
> is how does God define Christianity, and we see that definition in His
word.
Some DENOMINATIONS do not hold that the Bible is the "word of God" and the
final arbitrator in anything. Some DENOMINATIONS have the three-legged
stool of the bible, tradition and reason as EQUAL. This is one of the
simple basic concepte that Groiz's Shallowship have not been able to
understand. this unmoderated newsgroup is for all Christins ..or to put it
another way ...for ALL CHRISTIAN DENOMINATIONS.
Do you understand?
Jani
"Brenda G. Kent" <wt...@victoria.tc.ca> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.58.04...@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca...
Since you asserted not so long ago that "witchcraft is a religion", perhaps
you should add "this is the latest update from the voices in my head" every
time you change your much-vaunted "opinion" on spiritual issues.
Jani
Solar Flare
> > > How many Gods are there?
> > >
> > > ONE.
> >
> >
> > God IS all (pantheism) or God is IN all (panentheism)?
> >
> > My view is panentheism.
>
> Thanks for the clarity that you are not a Christian.
>
> >
> >
So much philosophy. If taken to it's absurd conclusion, one could
argue that Satan was God.
For those of you who think God is some cosmic muffin and has no
emotions:
Jeremiah 44
2 "This is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: You saw
the great disaster I brought on Jerusalem and on all the towns of
Judah. Today they lie deserted and in ruins
3 because of the evil they have done. They provoked me to anger by
burning incense and by WORSHIPING OTHER GODS that neither they nor you
nor your fathers ever knew.
4 Again and again I sent my servants the prophets, who said, 'Do not
do this detestable thing that I hate!'
5 But they did not listen or pay attention; they did not turn from
their wickedness or stop burning incense to OTHER GODS.
Brenda G. Kent
>
> Brenda,
>
> That makes no sense. If there are "different" kinds of Christians then why
> would God need to tell us who is one and who is not? If God is
****Is Christianity a label? or the way one lives his/her life?
> distinguishing between the various "kinds" of Christians (as you suggest),
> then that is the evidence that He does NOT recognize all of these different
> "kinds."
>
****I'm talking about the labels...apart from the actions.
> I agree that God alone decides who is a Christian. But by your own words,
> that negates the possibility that all "different kinds" of Christian are
> acceptable to Him. The question is not whether all those who claim
> Christianity are Christian simply based on their confession. The question
> is how does God define Christianity, and we see that definition in His word.
> That is the measure (and you acknowledge above that there IS such a measure)
> by which we use to recognize those who are Christian.
>
**** what word? there are many words about Christ. Not just Jesus the
Christ but about Christ overall. The Christ I find in many texts and in
many day to day interactions with others in my experience. One would have
to prove to me that A: the Bible
is the only measure for what is Christ...and B: that one has to take it
the way the majority take it.
> In His Service,
> Chayil
>
>
***Blessings
Bren.
glenn
god loves you
i love you
..glenn
glenn
be more of a christian than most of your evil cronies.
but.. yea... many have been showing with clarity whose they are
glenn
that "feel it" is not anymore another twist of witchcraft than
pentecostalism
Brenda G. Kent
***that is also one way to look at it. If Christians say " a Christian is
this" then they had better check all the denominations to see that they
do or if they agree...or do the lazy or bigoted thing and cast dispersions
on others denominations. Christianity will never reach the Unified force
that it wants if people continue to highlight the differences and not
concentrate on what Unifies. Variety and the multiplications of fruits are
a beautiful thing...but only if those differences are appreciated by
everyone as the many ways in which God creates...not one way over another.
Have a little true humility...don't say "it is" ...say "it might be".
Don't stand there and say "I have the only True way" for you are using ego
over love and unity. You are not raising God before others...you are
trying to keep God "for yourself" and raise your station as "better than".
Show your Christianity in action..over just labeling yourself as Christian
and sticking your nose in the air whilst you try and trample others
underfoot.
There is so much fighting on this newsgroup...people calling each other
names...people making fun of one another....etc. I know that others can be
frustrating...I know it! Having others call you "child of satan" or "not a
true Christian" when you know deep in your heart you are...can be
aggravating and can cause one to lash out....but keep in your heart and
soul the idea of exactly What WOULD Jesus do? Even if you don't know for
certain....How do you believe he would act? Would he call others down?
would he make fun of peoples intelligence, spirituality, personal
connection with God? Would he call others stupid or idiot for not
following him? or would he send them love and be on his way?
In my
opinion,
Blessings in the peace and love of Christ,
Bren.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"An eye for an eye just ends up making everyone blind."
-Mahatma Ghandi
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
glenn
Re: A few questions about God
Group: alt.christnet.christianlife Date: Mon, Feb 2, 2004, 11:52am
(CST-2) From: wt...@victoria.tc.ca (Brenda G. Kent)
bren,
you are very right about this.
dont let the baxxxrds drag you down...u2
glenn
i think mike is a new christian. we may not want to expect too much of
his understanding theology
..glenn
Brenda G. Kent
>
> So much philosophy. If taken to it's absurd conclusion, one could
> argue that Satan was God.
>
***and there are those that see some Christian's Satan as a God of the
Christian theology. Everyone has different opinions. You don't have to
agree.
> For those of you who think God is some cosmic muffin and has no
> emotions:
>
> Jeremiah 44
> 2 "This is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: You saw
> the great disaster I brought on Jerusalem and on all the towns of
> Judah. Today they lie deserted and in ruins
> 3 because of the evil they have done. They provoked me to anger by
> burning incense and by WORSHIPING OTHER GODS that neither they nor you
> nor your fathers ever knew.
> 4 Again and again I sent my servants the prophets, who said, 'Do not
> do this detestable thing that I hate!'
> 5 But they did not listen or pay attention; they did not turn from
> their wickedness or stop burning incense to OTHER GODS.
>
**who says God has no emotions?
Strange...for I did not see one person saying this.
Your words are also within a timeframe context.
Also you are speaking from the O.Testament.....I don't see The Christ in
those words. It only shows a being that is brought down to the faults and
sins of humanity. The passage describes a Jealous God who harms others if
"he" does not get his way..and needs others terribly for he is a "jealous
God". I find those very passages as very anti-Christ. That is my opinion
however.
Blessings
Brenda G. Kent
Blessings Glenn..I love you too and that comes from the God within as
well.
I.M.O
Bren.
Brenda G. Kent
> bren,
> you are very right about this.
> dont let the baxxxrds drag you down...u2
>
***oh dear...I have worked hard at not letting others decide my emotions
or reactions glenn.
I don't get dragged down too often.
:)
Mike Barefield
"glenn" <dgl...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:5951-401...@storefull-3294.bay.webtv.net...
Glen, are you joining Mark in his panentheism?
In case you missed it, you can't be a panentheist and be a Christian. Mark
has made his beliefs clear. Have you?
Here are the questions....
Is the Father God?
Is the Son God?
Is the Holy Spirit God?
How many Gods are there?
Your personal answers are requested and appreciated.
Pastor Dave
Tindall" <m_b_t...@tpg.com.au> spake thusly:
Not all "Christian" denominations are Christian.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
"Cause when you're with me, I'm free, I'm careless,
I believe. Above any others, we'll fly. This brings
tears, to my eyes." - Creed: My Sacrifice
Pastor Dave
<wt...@victoria.tc.ca> spake thusly:
>On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Chayil wrote:
>
>>
>> Brenda,
>>
>> That makes no sense. If there are "different" kinds of Christians then why
>> would God need to tell us who is one and who is not? If God is
>
>****Is Christianity a label? or the way one lives his/her life?
You do not live your life as a Christian, so your
question is irrelevant.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
http://www.delusionresistance.org/creation/christ_scientific_creation.html
Pastor Dave
<wt...@victoria.tc.ca> spake thusly:
>On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Pastor Dave wrote:
>
>> >
>> >***there are different kinds of Christians Mike and it is up to God to
>> >tell us who is Christian and who is not.
>>
>> He did and you are not.
>
>****it is up to God.
Yes and He already spoke on the matter. You chose to
ignore His words.
>Blessings of love and tolerance.
>
>A Christian is what one does..not by what label they slap on themselves.
You do not live as a Christian. You live as a witch.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
If the solar system was brought about by an accidental
collision, then the appearance of organic life on this
planet was also an accident and the whole evolution of
man was an accident too. If so, then all our thought
processes are mere accidents - the accidental
by-product of the movement of atoms. And this holds
for the materialists' and astronomers' as well as for
anyone else's. But if their thoughts - i.e., of
materialism and astronomy - are merely accidental
by-products, why should we believe them to be true?
I see no reason for believing that one accident
should be able to give a correct account of all
the other accidents. - C.S. Lewis, God in the Dock
Pastor Dave
dgl...@webtv.net (glenn) spake thusly:
Brenda claims that witches can be Christians and
believes that God is nature and worships that.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
"Species that were once thought to have turned into
others have been found to overlap in time with these
alleged descendants. In fact, the fossil record does
not convincingly document a single transition from one
species to another." (Stanley, S.M., The New
Evolutionary Timetable: Fossils, Genes, and the Origin
of Species, 1981, p. 95)
Pastor Dave
dgl...@webtv.net (glenn) spake thusly:
>pastor dave
>that "feel it" is not anymore another twist of witchcraft than
>pentecostalism
It is when you know what Brenda believes.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
"Paleontologists have paid an enormous price for
Darwin's argument. We fancy ourselves as the only true
students of life's history, yet to preserve our favored
account of evolution by natural selection we view our
data as so bad that we almost never see the very
process we profess to study. ...The history of most
fossil species includes tow features particularly
inconsistent with gradualism: 1. Stasis. Most species
exhibit no directional change during their tenure on
earth. They appear in the fossil record looking much
the same as when they disappear; morphological change I
usually limited and directionless. 2. Sudden
appearance. In any local area, a species does not
arise gradually by the steady transformation of its
ancestors; it appears all at once and 'fully formed.'"
(Gould, Stephen J. The Panda's Thumb, 1980, p. 181-182)
Pastor Dave
<wt...@victoria.tc.ca> spake thusly:
>On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Pastor Dave wrote:
>
>> So you demote God to being a tree and worship trees.
>>
>****How would you glean that from what I had said?
Very easily.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
"I am not permitted to let my love be so merciful
as to tolerate and endure false doctrine. When
faith and doctrine are concerned and endangered,
neither love nor patience are in order... For
a defective life does not destroy Christendom,
but exercises it. However, defective doctrine
and false faith ruin everything. Therefore, when
these are concerned, neither toleration nor mercy
are in order, but only anger, dispute and
destruction - to be sure, only with the Word
of God as our weapon." - Martin Luther
Pastor Dave
<wt...@victoria.tc.ca> spake thusly:
>On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Pastor Dave wrote:
>
>>
>> That's simply a twist on witchcraft.
>>
>
>***it has nothing to do with witchcraft actually.
It has everything to do with it.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
The fact is, if you can't believe the beginning,
you can't believe the end and shouldn't claim to.
To disbelieve the beginning, is to doubt many things
that Jesus said. After all, He made it clear that
He believed it. If you believe in the Trinity, how
can you believe that God wouldn't know how it all
started? If you can't believe the beginning, then
get off the pulpit.
glenn
can you tell us some that are or arent? in your opinion of course
glenn
brens faith in feelings is no less valid than the pentecostals. the only
diffrence is the pentecostals are wearing the name brand.
glenn
how can her question about whether xnty is by label or action be
irrelevent? what kind of evangelism is that? are you a 5 point calvinist
or somethin
..glenn
Brenda G. Kent
>
> "glenn" <dgl...@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:5951-401...@storefull-3294.bay.webtv.net...
> > mark,
> > i think mike is a new christian. we may not want to expect too much of
> > his understanding theology
> > ..glenn
> >
>
> Glen, are you joining Mark in his panentheism?
>
> In case you missed it, you can't be a panentheist and be a Christian. Mark
> has made his beliefs clear. Have you?
***not Glenn but I will say this...Please prove that you cannot be a
Christian and a panentheist.
Bren.
Brenda G. Kent
> On Mon, 2 Feb 2004 16:44:19 -0800, "Brenda G. Kent"
> <wt...@victoria.tc.ca> spake thusly:
>
> >On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Chayil wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Brenda,
> >>
> >> That makes no sense. If there are "different" kinds of Christians then why
> >> would God need to tell us who is one and who is not? If God is
> >
> >****Is Christianity a label? or the way one lives his/her life?
>
> You do not live your life as a Christian, so your
> question is irrelevant.
***How do I live my life Dave? What is the way to live it Dave? is it your
way Dave? or is it Gods way?
Is it Gods way to put down others and make fun of their intelligence or
lack thereof?
Blessings
Bren.
Brenda G. Kent
>
> Not all "Christian" denominations are Christian.
>
****heh..I could see that one coming a mile away. Ofcourse your way is the
right way?
Brenda G. Kent
> >****it is up to God.
>
> Yes and He already spoke on the matter. You chose to
> ignore His words.
****Actually no. He asked again something that I had already answered.
>
>
> >Blessings of love and tolerance.
> >
> >A Christian is what one does..not by what label they slap on themselves.
>
> You do not live as a Christian. You live as a witch.
>
****and what is that way Dave? and what way do I live? please explain it
to others.
Please prove that I don't live as a Christian, Dave.
Blessings
Bren.
Brenda G. Kent
>
> Brenda claims that witches can be Christians and
> believes that God is nature and worships that.
***I believe that God is everything Dave. Why are you bearing false
witness on me after I already claimed what I do.? That does not seem very
loving to me at all.
How is that expressing Christ?
Bren.
Brenda G. Kent
> On Mon, 2 Feb 2004 11:56:08 -0800, "Brenda G. Kent"
> <wt...@victoria.tc.ca> spake thusly:
>
> >On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Pastor Dave wrote:
> >
> >> So you demote God to being a tree and worship trees.
> >>
> >****How would you glean that from what I had said?
>
> Very easily.
***then you must not be able to see correctly. I did not at all say that.
Blessings
Brenda G. Kent
> On Mon, 2 Feb 2004 18:46:56 -0600 (CST),
> dgl...@webtv.net (glenn) spake thusly:
>
> >pastor dave
> >that "feel it" is not anymore another twist of witchcraft than
> >pentecostalism
>
> It is when you know what Brenda believes.
>
***but you don't Dave. You say you do...but you have shown that you don't
really. IF you did..you would know that witchcraft is not a religion..but
a craft.
Besides all that dear Dave, it is up to God....the God within all...to
judge me..not your ego.
In my opinion,
Brenda G. Kent
> On Mon, 2 Feb 2004 11:54:00 -0800, "Brenda G. Kent"
> <wt...@victoria.tc.ca> spake thusly:
>
> >On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Pastor Dave wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> That's simply a twist on witchcraft.
> >>
> >
> >***it has nothing to do with witchcraft actually.
>
> It has everything to do with it.
***You are wrong Dave...but I love you anyway. Your words bounce off me
like little drops of water.
May God bless you in your future,
Bren.
Mark and Bev Tindall
> ***and there are those that see some Christian's Satan as a God of the
> Christian theology. Everyone has different opinions. You don't have to
> agree.
Carl Jung, in answer to the problems in the book of Job , postulated that
perhaps Satan and Jesus were both equal sons of God. He says that this
would solve the problem of why God is so lenient on Satan.
Brenda G. Kent
**interesting. I see Satan....not as a being...but just the little
niggling fears that pop into our heads..the things that have us asking
ourselves..are we certain? The Devil whispering to Jesus as he was in the
wilderness "if you are God"....etc. was just Jesus's fears coming into
play. Many religions have the concept of "the trickster" ..one who tests
the boundaries..makes certain by questions and tricks if you are sure of
where you are going.. One who teaches by example of what not to do..etc.
Ofcourse..this is my opinion.
Blessings
Bren.
GENTLEOWL SPIRIT
"Mark and Bev Tindall" <m_b_t...@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:401f...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
Mark and Bev Tindall
> In case you missed it, you can't be a panentheist and be a Christian.
It is ESSENTIAL to be a panENtheist to be a Christian!!!! Jesus, Paul,
Billy Graham, the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Pope are ALL
panENtheists!!!!
Do you understand the term?????? I doubt it!!!! Use your God-given
brain!!!!
PanENtheism is NOT pantheism ...silly little person.
> How many Gods are there?
There is but ONE God.
How many do you worship???? Three Gods in the trinity????
Pastor Dave
dgl...@webtv.net (glenn) spake thusly:
>"the pastor " who stated not all xn denoms are xn...
>can you tell us some that are or arent? in your opinion of course
What does it have to do with what I said? Are you
going to try to convince us all that witches can be
witches and Christians, at the same time?
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
When Christianity becomes religion,
it leaves the heart hungry.
Pastor Dave
dgl...@webtv.net (glenn) spake thusly:
>pastor dave,
Sure, jump on me because I pointed out that a witch is
not a Christian.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
In the beginning, God created...
And He did it in six days and said
He did it in six days (Exodus 20:11).
Pastor Dave
<wt...@victoria.tc.ca> spake thusly:
>On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Pastor Dave wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 2 Feb 2004 16:44:19 -0800, "Brenda G. Kent"
>> <wt...@victoria.tc.ca> spake thusly:
>>
>> >On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Chayil wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Brenda,
>> >>
>> >> That makes no sense. If there are "different" kinds of Christians then why
>> >> would God need to tell us who is one and who is not? If God is
>> >
>> >****Is Christianity a label? or the way one lives his/her life?
>>
>> You do not live your life as a Christian, so your
>> question is irrelevant.
>
>***How do I live my life Dave?
Rejecting God.
>What is the way to live it Dave?
You've read the Bible. You reject it.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
The Bible says that death came by sin and sin came
by Adam (Rom 5:12; 1 Cor 15:21-22).
Evolution says lots of things lived and died before
Adam and Eve got here and therefore attempts to rule
out what the Bible says.
One or the other is right, but they can't both
be right.
Mike Barefield
"Brenda G. Kent" <wt...@victoria.tc.ca> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.58.04...@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca...
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man
cometh unto the Father, but by me.
>
> Bren.
Pastor Dave
<wt...@victoria.tc.ca> spake thusly:
>On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Pastor Dave wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 2 Feb 2004 18:46:56 -0600 (CST),
>> dgl...@webtv.net (glenn) spake thusly:
>>
>> >pastor dave
>> >that "feel it" is not anymore another twist of witchcraft than
>> >pentecostalism
>>
>> It is when you know what Brenda believes.
>>
>
>***but you don't Dave. You say you do...but you have shown that you don't
>really. IF you did..you would know that witchcraft is not a religion..but
>a craft.
>Besides all that dear Dave, it is up to God....the God within all...to
>judge me..not your ego.
There is no such thing as a Christian witch.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
"Cause when you're with me, I'm free, I'm careless,
I believe. Above any others, we'll fly. This brings
tears, to my eyes." - Creed: My Sacrifice
Pastor Dave
<wt...@victoria.tc.ca> spake thusly:
>On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Mark and Bev Tindall wrote:
Well, if there is a Heaven and no Hell, why bother
living right? Do what you want. After all, you're
going to go to Heaven anyway.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
Part of the message of salvation, is the Creation.
Believing in the Creator. When Paul preached to
those worshipping nature and said... "turn from
these vanities unto the living God, which made
heaven and earth and the sea and all things that
are therein:" - Acts 14:15 Paul believed it too.
Pastor Dave
<wt...@victoria.tc.ca> spake thusly:
>On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Pastor Dave wrote:
You agreed with the following statements...
Is the Mother God? yes
Is the daughter God? yes
Are the people God? yes
Are the trees God? yes
Are the stones God? yes
Is the water God? yes
Are the animals God? yes
Are the insects God? yes
Is Pan God? yes
Is Aphrodite God? yes
Is Diana God? yes
Is Isis God? yes
Is Hecate God? yes
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
"One cannot be exposed to the law and order of the
universe without concluding that there must be design
and purpose behind it all... The better we understand
the intracacies of the universe and all it harbors,
the more reason we have found to marvel at the inherent
design upon which it is based... To be forced to
believe only one conclusion --- that everything in the
universe happened by chance --- would violate the very
objectivity of science itself... What random process
could produce the brains of man or the system of the
human eye? They (evolutionists) challenge science to
prove the existence of God. But must we really light
a candle to see the Sun? ... They say they cannot
visualize a designer. Well, can a physicist visualize
an electron? ...What strange rationale makes some
physicists accept the inconceivable electron as real
while refusing to accept the reality of a Designer on
the ground that they cannot conceive Him?"
- Dennis R. Petersen, Unlocking the Mysteries
of Creation, Vol 1
Chayil
> "Chayil" wrote:
>
> (She blocks me so someone pass this on!)
>
Hi Mark,
Yes I do block you because I don't want my newsgroup filled to the
rafters with nonsense. However, I do occassionally check in via
Google (as I am now) to see if I missing something that I need to
respond to.
> > > >> > God IS all (pantheism) or God is IN all (panentheism)?
> > > >> > My view is panentheism.
> .........
> > > >***there are different kinds of Christians Mike and it is up to God to
> > > >tell us who is Christian and who is not.
> >
> > Brenda,
> >
> > That makes no sense. If there are "different" kinds of Christians then
> why
> > would God need to tell us who is one and who is not? If God is
> > distinguishing between the various "kinds" of Christians (as you suggest),
> > then that is the evidence that He does NOT recognize all of these
> different
> > "kinds."
>
>
> Think "DENOMINATIONS"
>
Okay.
> There are many differing DENOMINATIONS in Christianity.
>
I agree that there are many denominations that call themselves
Christian. That does not mean they are so.
>
> > The question
> > is how does God define Christianity, and we see that definition in His
> word.
>
>
> Some DENOMINATIONS do not hold that the Bible is the "word of God" and the
> final arbitrator in anything. Some DENOMINATIONS have the three-legged
> stool of the bible, tradition and reason as EQUAL. This is one of the
> simple basic concepte that Groiz's Shallowship have not been able to
> understand. this unmoderated newsgroup is for all Christins ..or to put it
> another way ...for ALL CHRISTIAN DENOMINATIONS.
>
> Do you understand?
Yes, I understand. I don't discount the truth of what you say above.
However, let's get back to the comment from Brenda that initiatied my
post. She says that God alone will decide who is Christian and who is
not. IOW, we are not Christians just because WE say we are. We are
only Christians if HE says we are.
As such, not ALL who say they are Christians are recognized by God as
such. That is true for individuals as well as denominations.
My position is that this forum are for those who are Christians (as
defined by God) not those who claim Christianity based on their own
reasoning and traditions. For as Brenda rightly said, only God can
say who is or is not a Christian.
I understand that you do probably will not agree with this, but that
is where I stand.
Thanks,
Chayil
Chayil
>
> >
> > (She blocks me so someone pass this on!)
> >
> > > > >> > My view is panentheism.
> .........
> > > > >***there are different kinds of Christians Mike and it is up to God to
> > > > >tell us who is Christian and who is not.
> > >
> > > Brenda,
> > >
> > > That makes no sense. If there are "different" kinds of Christians then
> why
> > > would God need to tell us who is one and who is not? If God is
> > > distinguishing between the various "kinds" of Christians (as you suggest),
> > > then that is the evidence that He does NOT recognize all of these
> different
> > > "kinds."
> >
> >
> > Think "DENOMINATIONS"
> >
> >
> >
> > > is how does God define Christianity, and we see that definition in His
> > word.
> >
> >
> > Some DENOMINATIONS do not hold that the Bible is the "word of God" and the
> > final arbitrator in anything. Some DENOMINATIONS have the three-legged
> > stool of the bible, tradition and reason as EQUAL. This is one of the
> > simple basic concepte that Groiz's Shallowship have not been able to
> > understand. this unmoderated newsgroup is for all Christins ..or to put it
> > another way ...for ALL CHRISTIAN DENOMINATIONS.
> >
> > Do you understand?
> >
>
> this"
But back to your original statement Brenda. What about if God says "A
Christian is this..."? We are not talking about who 'Christians'
consider Christians. We are talking about who 'God' considers a
Christian.
> then they had better check all the denominations to see that they
> do or if they agree...or do the lazy or bigoted thing and cast dispersions
> on others denominations. Christianity will never reach the Unified force
> that it wants if people continue to highlight the differences and not
> concentrate on what Unifies. Variety and the multiplications of fruits are
> a beautiful thing...but only if those differences are appreciated by
> everyone as the many ways in which God creates...not one way over another.
> Have a little true humility...don't say "it is" ...say "it might be".
> Don't stand there and say "I have the only True way" for you are using ego
> over love and unity. You are not raising God before others...you are
> trying to keep God "for yourself" and raise your station as "better than".
> Show your Christianity in action..over just labeling yourself as Christian
> and sticking your nose in the air whilst you try and trample others
> underfoot.
> There is so much fighting on this newsgroup...people calling each other
> names...people making fun of one another....etc. I know that others can be
> frustrating...I know it! Having others call you "child of satan" or "not a
> true Christian" when you know deep in your heart you are...can be
> aggravating and can cause one to lash out....but keep in your heart and
> soul the idea of exactly What WOULD Jesus do? Even if you don't know for
> certain....How do you believe he would act? Would he call others down?
> would he make fun of peoples intelligence, spirituality, personal
> connection with God? Would he call others stupid or idiot for not
> following him? or would he send them love and be on his way?
>
> In my
> opinion,
>
> Blessings in the peace and love of Christ,
glenn
"the pastor " who stated not all xn denoms are xn... can you tell us
some that are or arent? in your opinion of course
What does it have to do with what I said? Are you going to try to
convince us all that witches can be witches and Christians, at the same
time?
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
hmmmmm..... what to do w/ what you said?
uuuuh....that IS what you said...
id like to hear you back it up now with examples....
Chayil
>
> >
> >
> > That makes no sense. If there are "different" kinds of Christians then why
> > would God need to tell us who is one and who is not? If God is
>
>
It is neither. It is a transforming faith. IOW, the label without
the transforming faith is not Christianity. The way of life without
the transforming faith is not Christianity.
I can call myself a dog, but that doesn't make me one. I can walk
around on all fours and bark, but that still doesn't make me one. I
can mimic being a dog all I want, but if that is not the nature I
possess (transforming faith) then I am just a cheap imitation of the
real thing.
>
> > distinguishing between the various "kinds" of Christians (as you suggest),
> > then that is the evidence that He does NOT recognize all of these different
> > "kinds."
> >
> ****I'm talking about the labels...apart from the actions.
>
The labels and the actions in and of themselves are not Christianity
but a cheap imitation of the real thing. One can do acts of a
Christian and not be a Christian. One can claim the label of a
Christian, but not be a Christian. I can claim to be a dog and bark,
but...
>
> > I agree that God alone decides who is a Christian. But by your own words,
> > that negates the possibility that all "different kinds" of Christian are
> > acceptable to Him. The question is not whether all those who claim
> > Christianity are Christian simply based on their confession. The question
> > is how does God define Christianity, and we see that definition in His word.
> > That is the measure (and you acknowledge above that there IS such a measure)
> > by which we use to recognize those who are Christian.
> >
> **** what word? there are many words about Christ. Not just Jesus the
> Christ but about Christ overall.
There are many words about Christ. There are also many christs. I am
not speaking of words "about" Christ but the words "of" Christ.
> The Christ I find in many texts and in
> many day to day interactions with others in my experience. One would have
> to prove to me that A: the Bible
> is the only measure for what is Christ...and B: that one has to take it
> the way the majority take it.
>
The Bible is not the measure for what is Christ, it is the measure for
who is like Christ. The Bible also holds the words of Christ. What
He would have us to know about himself, through all time.
As for 'proving' this, that is not my responsibility. God promises to
reveal the Truth to all who seek Him with a pure heart. Therefore the
"proving" is something that He works out in His own way.
Don't get me wrong. I am not poo-pooing your statement. I have been
there too. I even reached a point where I was so sick of "religion"
that I began to doubt God even existed. My family is filled with all
types of religious beliefs, Christianity, new age, islam...
At one point in time, I believed that there was some validity in them
all. I convinced myself that God in His infinite wisdom had created
different religions for the purpose of reaching all people because He
recognized that people are different (afterall He created us that way
right?). Each religion was valid and none more "right" than another.
But, then God showed me the error of my ways. I am not talking about
man here, I am talking about God. I told Him that I was tired to
trying to find out who He was and that unless He revealed Himself to
me, I was going to give up. Well, He answer my prayer. He caused
circumstances in my life where He got me off by myself for 6 months.
In that time, He began to reveal Himself to me. He led me to the
Bible and began to literally walk me through it. As I read one part,
He would tell me how that related to another part and He would take me
to that part. He revealed it to me just that way. I spent months
alone with Him as He walked me through His word. Well, suffice it to
say that after that experience, I knew beyond a doubt who God was and
that the Bible was His inerrant word. Now it was up to me to decide
if I would serve Him.
I had tried to read the Bible before as well as other "holy" books.
But while, I had been able to pick out bits and parts, it remained
largely closed to me in regards to understanding. So, that is why I
say that no man can 'prove' to you that the Bible is God's inerrant
word. If you REALLY want to know, you have to seek Him on it and I
know that He will reveal it because He is not a respecter of persons.
Anyway, this post is much longer than I wanted it to be, so please
excuse me. Thanks for listening.
In Christ,
Chayil
>
> > In His Service,
> > Chayil
> >
> >
> ***Blessings
> Bren.
glenn
pastor dave
that "feel it" is not anymore another twist of witchcraft than
pentecostalism
It is when you know what Brenda believes.
***but you don't Dave. You say you do...but you have shown that you
don't really. IF you did..you would know that witchcraft is not a
religion..but a craft.
Besides all that dear Dave, it is up to God....the God within all...to
judge me..not your ego.
There is no such thing as a Christian witch.
--
christianity has repeatedly stated she is not a xn- witch. c'mon buddy
glenn
pastor dave,
how can her question about whether xnty is by label or action be
irrelevent? what kind of evangelism is that? are you a 5 point calvinist
or somethin
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
again no answer to the question.lol
can you answer?
Pastor Dave
dgl...@webtv.net (glenn) spake thusly:
I made a point based on the fact that Brenda claims to
be a witch and a Christian and that her denomination
has no problem with it, according to her. You did not
consider the context of my statement. Obviously, that
would not be a Christian denomination, even though they
label themselves as such.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
"If something in science suddenly becomes
so sacrosanct that you can't question it,
then it ceases to be science," he said.
"And I really think that's what's become
of Darwinism." - Roger DeHart
Pastor Dave
dgl...@webtv.net (glenn) spake thusly:
Okay, sure, here ya go...
Brenda: "I am a Christian"
Brenda: "...this is what makes me an Ecumenical witch I
would reckon."
Brenda: "Why stick with the Jesus the Christ label?
well I was brought up a Christian and I have a good
warm feeling for Jesus. I also celebrate Christmas
along with the Winter Equinox. Light...aka spiritual
illumination and light aka the sun...coming back to the
earth."
Brenda: "I am a Christian and a Witch."
You can look those exact phrases up on Google.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
If the solar system was brought about by an accidental
collision, then the appearance of organic life on this
planet was also an accident and the whole evolution of
man was an accident too. If so, then all our thought
processes are mere accidents - the accidental
by-product of the movement of atoms. And this holds
for the materialists' and astronomers' as well as for
anyone else's. But if their thoughts - i.e., of
materialism and astronomy - are merely accidental
by-products, why should we believe them to be true?
I see no reason for believing that one accident
should be able to give a correct account of all
the other accidents. - C.S. Lewis, God in the Dock
Brenda G. Kent
**it is? can you point me to a source Sioux?
thanks
Bren.
Brenda G. Kent
> >
> >***How do I live my life Dave?
>
> Rejecting God.
>
***Please prove.
>
> >What is the way to live it Dave?
>
> You've read the Bible. You reject it.
>
***No I don't reject the Bible. I see it as second (like all religious
texts) to the God within. I am guided by what I consider to be God..to the
truth..and it can be found within the Bible (when one gleans) and outside
of it. I reject literalness only.
If you are going to make statements about what I do...please get them
correct and don't bear false witness thanks.
Blessings
Bren.
Brenda G. Kent
>
> Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man
> cometh unto the Father, but by me.
***hows does that disprove panentheism? and I did ask for proof...not the
Bible.
Can you prove it without the Bible? Since the Bible is not God (in my
opinion) and the creature and not the Creator (which is not supposed to be
idolized in my opinion)where is the proof? What is saying you are a
panentheist have to do with not believing that God is the way,the truth
and the life..and no one comes to the Father (source) but by me (the
Christ within)?
The Christ within is within all...as a panentheist (in my opinion
obviously) and I am following "the way..the truth..and the life"
by the Christ to the Father.
Since you don't understand how I believe and that you have your own idea
on what that means....I accept that. However if you are trying to state
that all must worship as you do..then that is not following God..but
following you. I decline.
Blessings of love,
Bren.
Brenda G. Kent
>
> There is no such thing as a Christian witch.
**in your opinion.
Blessings of love and truth,
Bren.
Brenda G. Kent
> Well, if there is a Heaven and no Hell, why bother
> living right? Do what you want. After all, you're
> going to go to Heaven anyway.
>
****By following God within it leads me to right action. I have no desire
to hurt others...I have no desire to run over people without a care. I
never said that I don't believe in Heaven...I do. I just don't believe
that Hell is a hot place with pointy forks. There is no point to torturing
someone forever and I don't believe that God is heartless to the point
that God would allow that. It is not a fear of hell that causes me to be
on the straight and narrow but God within...who knows that treating
someone in any way...comes back onto you. Treat others as yourself.
There are many cultures and faiths that don't believe in Hell...and they
are not willy-nilly killing or hurting others constantly. I keep to God
through love...not fear.
In my opinion,
Bren.
Brenda G. Kent
> On Mon, 2 Feb 2004 20:25:33 -0800, "Brenda G. Kent"
> <wt...@victoria.tc.ca> spake thusly:
>
> >On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Pastor Dave wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Brenda claims that witches can be Christians and
> >> believes that God is nature and worships that.
> >
> >
> >***I believe that God is everything Dave. Why are you bearing false
> >witness on me after I already claimed what I do.? That does not seem very
> >loving to me at all.
> >How is that expressing Christ?
>
> You agreed with the following statements...
>
> Is the Mother God? yes
> Is the daughter God? yes
> Are the people God? yes
> Are the trees God? yes
> Are the stones God? yes
> Is the water God? yes
> Are the animals God? yes
> Are the insects God? yes
> Is Pan God? yes
> Is Aphrodite God? yes
> Is Diana God? yes
> Is Isis God? yes
> Is Hecate God? yes
*****Yes? so?
what's your point?
Does this mean that God worships God?
Blessings
Brenda G. Kent
>
> Yes, I understand. I don't discount the truth of what you say above.
> However, let's get back to the comment from Brenda that initiatied my
> post. She says that God alone will decide who is Christian and who is
> not. IOW, we are not Christians just because WE say we are. We are
> only Christians if HE says we are.
>
Brenda responds: yes?
> As such, not ALL who say they are Christians are recognized by God as
> such. That is true for individuals as well as denominations.
>
Bren: that may be true.
> My position is that this forum are for those who are Christians (as
> defined by God) not those who claim Christianity based on their own
> reasoning and traditions. For as Brenda rightly said, only God can
> say who is or is not a Christian.
Bren: This forum is for those who believe they are Christian. How can one
say who is or who is not Christian...unless God tells us who is?
Now do you take the Bible as the only way to Christianity? if you do..then
you have one idea of Christianity...but is this as Christ would have
wanted it? or is it the people who followed Jesus?
I believe there are more ways of judging Christianity than the Bible and I
believe that it is up to God within.
I don't believe that people can say who is or who is not...with any
absolute. They can make their books and their laws etc. but it will always
be God within who lets us know.
IN my opinion.
>
> I understand that you do probably will not agree with this, but that
> is where I stand.
>
> Thanks,
> Chayil
>
***Blessings
Bren.
Pastor Dave
<wt...@victoria.tc.ca> spake thusly:
>On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Pastor Dave wrote:
>
>> >
>> >***How do I live my life Dave?
>>
>> Rejecting God.
>>
>
>***Please prove.
>
>
>>
>> >What is the way to live it Dave?
>>
>> You've read the Bible. You reject it.
>>
>
>***No I don't reject the Bible.
Yes, you do, every time it contradicts what you
personally want to believe, which is why you keep
saying, "Please prove that the Bible is God's word".
You do that whenever someone responds to a claim of
yours that you can't back up and yet wish to call it
Christian.
>I see it as second (like all religious
>texts) to the God within. I am guided by what I consider to be God..to the
>truth.
You are guided by Satan.
>and it can be found within the Bible (when one gleans)
In other words, when one twists it to mean whatever
suits their fancy.
Brenda G. Kent
> > >
> > > > The question
> > > > is how does God define Christianity, and we see that definition in His
> > > word.
> > >
****correction ...YOU see the Bible as Gods word...and your interp of
Christianity is based on that .
Is it God's word? YOu would have to prove that to be certain. Do you
believe that it is Gods word? then so be it. Beliefs are free. But one
definition of Christ is not everyones.
> > >
> > > Some DENOMINATIONS do not hold that the Bible is the "word of God" and the
> > > final arbitrator in anything. Some DENOMINATIONS have the three-legged
> > > stool of the bible, tradition and reason as EQUAL. This is one of the
> > > simple basic concepte that Groiz's Shallowship have not been able to
> > > understand. this unmoderated newsgroup is for all Christins ..or to put it
> > > another way ...for ALL CHRISTIAN DENOMINATIONS.
> > >
> > > Do you understand?
> > >
> >
> > ***that is also one way to look at it. If Christians say " a Christian is
> > this"
>
> But back to your original statement Brenda. What about if God says "A
> Christian is this..."? We are not talking about who 'Christians'
> consider Christians. We are talking about who 'God' considers a
> Christian.
>
>
*****If God says this...then we have something to go on.
***we can not use a book that cannot be proved as evidence!. We can talk
about it..discuss it...have our own opinions and beliefs on it...but we
cannot say it is..until God says it is. If we do...all we will gain is
wars and confrontations that will never cease. I choose to accept everyone
as having an opinion...or believeing that the inner voice they hear is
God...as I do. But we cannot prove any of it. Belief would not be belief
if we had an absolute YES....it just would "be".
To me..if I had never been exposed to God in bookform...if no one around
me had ever talked about God in any way...I would still be a good and kind
person who loved and if God existed...God would love me...with or without
a text. To me..that is God coming through...sans dogma...sans
construct....it just is.
In my opinion,
Blessings
Bren.
Pastor Dave
<wt...@victoria.tc.ca> spake thusly:
>Bren: This forum is for those who believe they are Christian.
It is about Christian life, which does not include
witchcraft, nor rejecting the word of God.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
In the beginning, God created...
And He did it in six days and said He did it in six
days (Exodus 20:11). Jesus believed that and
referenced it, in Matthew 19:3-8 and in other places.
The original Hebrew word for "day" ("yom"), is never
used to mean anything but a literal day in the Bible,
when a numerical adjective is present ("second, third,
etc.). Are we to believe that this is somehow the
one exception?
Pastor Dave
<wt...@victoria.tc.ca> spake thusly:
>On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Pastor Dave wrote:
>
>
>> Well, if there is a Heaven and no Hell, why bother
>> living right? Do what you want. After all, you're
>> going to go to Heaven anyway.
>>
>
>****By following God within it leads me to right action.
If that were true, then you wouldn't be claiming that
one can be a witch and a Christian at the same time,
nor that the Bible isn't God's word.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
Pastor Dave
<wt...@victoria.tc.ca> spake thusly:
>On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Mike Barefield wrote:
>
>>
>> Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man
>> cometh unto the Father, but by me.
>
>***hows does that disprove panentheism? and I did ask for proof...not the
>Bible.
>Can you prove it without the Bible?
Why would a Christian seek to prove it without the
Bible?
>Since the Bible is not God (in my opinion)
Neither are my words me. That does not mean that I
didn't say them.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
"I am not permitted to let my love be so merciful
as to tolerate and endure false doctrine. When
faith and doctrine are concerned and endangered,
neither love nor patience are in order... For
a defective life does not destroy Christendom,
but exercises it. However, defective doctrine
and false faith ruin everything. Therefore, when
these are concerned, neither toleration nor mercy
are in order, but only anger, dispute and
destruction - to be sure, only with the Word
of God as our weapon." - Martin Luther
Brenda G. Kent
> "Brenda G. Kent" <wt...@victoria.tc.ca> wrote in message news:<Pine.GSO.4.58.04...@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca>...
> > On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Chayil wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Brenda,
> > >
> > > That makes no sense. If there are "different" kinds of Christians then why
> > > would God need to tell us who is one and who is not? If God is
> >
> > ****Is Christianity a label? or the way one lives his/her life?
> >
>
> It is neither. It is a transforming faith. IOW, the label without
> the transforming faith is not Christianity. The way of life without
> the transforming faith is not Christianity.
***in your opinion...okay.
>
> I can call myself a dog, but that doesn't make me one. I can walk
> around on all fours and bark, but that still doesn't make me one. I
> can mimic being a dog all I want, but if that is not the nature I
> possess (transforming faith) then I am just a cheap imitation of the
> real thing.
>
****understood.
But a dog is a very static thing....we all see it and we all know what it
is. Christianity has many opinions stuck on it. When someone says "he acts
like a Christian". What does that mean to you? it would maybe be different
to what it would mean to others. A dog on the other hand..everyone will
more or less come up with the same descriptors.
>
> >
> > > distinguishing between the various "kinds" of Christians (as you suggest),
> > > then that is the evidence that He does NOT recognize all of these different
> > > "kinds."
> > >
> > ****I'm talking about the labels...apart from the actions.
> >
>
> The labels and the actions in and of themselves are not Christianity
> but a cheap imitation of the real thing. One can do acts of a
> Christian and not be a Christian. One can claim the label of a
> Christian, but not be a Christian. I can claim to be a dog and bark,
> but...
****as I said...Christianity has many descriptions. Dogs don't really. You
can get into the breeds etc. but they are still dogs.
>
>
> >
> > > I agree that God alone decides who is a Christian. But by your own words,
> > > that negates the possibility that all "different kinds" of Christian are
> > > acceptable to Him. The question is not whether all those who claim
> > > Christianity are Christian simply based on their confession. The question
> > > is how does God define Christianity, and we see that definition in His word.
> > > That is the measure (and you acknowledge above that there IS such a measure)
> > > by which we use to recognize those who are Christian.
> > >
> > **** what word? there are many words about Christ. Not just Jesus the
> > Christ but about Christ overall.
>
>
> There are many words about Christ. There are also many christs. I am
> not speaking of words "about" Christ but the words "of" Christ.
****which are? Remember this is your opinion that it is. It is not
everyones...and not every Christians.
>
>
> > The Christ I find in many texts and in
> > many day to day interactions with others in my experience. One would have
> > to prove to me that A: the Bible
> > is the only measure for what is Christ...and B: that one has to take it
> > the way the majority take it.
> >
>
> The Bible is not the measure for what is Christ, it is the measure for
> who is like Christ. The Bible also holds the words of Christ. What
> He would have us to know about himself, through all time.
>
*****can you prove that it is Christ? if you cannot why say "it is"? Does
one saying it ...make it anymore true? or is it your own opinion?
Nothing wrong with having an opinion. Speaking for others is another
matter all together however.
> As for 'proving' this, that is not my responsibility. God promises to
> reveal the Truth to all who seek Him with a pure heart. Therefore the
> "proving" is something that He works out in His own way.
>
***again...you cannot prove that God reveals the truth...you can only
say..in your opinion God will. It is not at all going against God or
Christ or Books of spirit...I am talking about how often opinions are
being mistaken for truths...when only God within knows truth. (obviously
in my opinion). I try not to say "God says" because it will fly in the
face of someone else who says "God says" if it is very anti...what I have
just said. Then there we have a stalemate that turns into arguing...and we
end up being the Blind insisting what he does not see..is more real than
what the other Blind person insists what he does see is more real.
Blind leading the blind.
> Don't get me wrong. I am not poo-pooing your statement. I have been
> there too. I even reached a point where I was so sick of "religion"
> that I began to doubt God even existed. My family is filled with all
> types of religious beliefs, Christianity, new age, islam...
>
***interesting and good to have things that stir up thought and exchange I
feel. I've never been an atheist. I gave it a thought once or twice but it
was not "my" truth so I could not go with it.
> At one point in time, I believed that there was some validity in them
> all. I convinced myself that God in His infinite wisdom had created
> different religions for the purpose of reaching all people because He
> recognized that people are different (afterall He created us that way
> right?). Each religion was valid and none more "right" than another.
>
> But, then God showed me the error of my ways. I am not talking about
> man here, I am talking about God. I told Him that I was tired to
> trying to find out who He was and that unless He revealed Himself to
> me, I was going to give up. Well, He answer my prayer. He caused
> circumstances in my life where He got me off by myself for 6 months.
> In that time, He began to reveal Himself to me. He led me to the
> Bible and began to literally walk me through it. As I read one part,
> He would tell me how that related to another part and He would take me
> to that part. He revealed it to me just that way. I spent months
> alone with Him as He walked me through His word. Well, suffice it to
> say that after that experience, I knew beyond a doubt who God was and
> that the Bible was His inerrant word. Now it was up to me to decide
> if I would serve Him.
>
****that is good for you that you had this experience. If it comforts you
and is your truth..than I have no problem with that. Where I have a
problem is anyone saying that God is....and it being the exact opposite as
what I have experienced God being. Who is correct? I have had many
experiences with God my whole life. I have survived rough experiences
through God...and I have God guiding me to truth. Now this is my
experience....and it is what "I" think is truth. I cannot say that it is
the right and only way at all...because it is a subjective experience. I
have had God telling me to glean the Bible and other spiritual texts to
find the truth that is there and to throw out that which is not. Now can I
prove this? no. Can you prove your experience? no. So I respect more of a
taking responsibility for your own subjectivity on God...than to say "it
is" for all.
If I said that God told me (this is an example ofcourse)that we must eat
Green m&ms.....and that the experience changed my life etc. How could I
prove it to you? What would you think? you might think that I am off my
rocker...but does that make it any less true about the M&Ms? The same goes
for what someone may think of your own experiences. We can only say how it
was "for us".
In my opinion.
> I had tried to read the Bible before as well as other "holy" books.
> But while, I had been able to pick out bits and parts, it remained
> largely closed to me in regards to understanding. So, that is why I
> say that no man can 'prove' to you that the Bible is God's inerrant
> word. If you REALLY want to know, you have to seek Him on it and I
> know that He will reveal it because He is not a respecter of persons.
>
****in your opinion Chayil. In my experience my understanding of Christ
unfolded completely when I researched other texts...did my meditation
...and read the Bible. My experience as a Wiccan also led me to greater
closeness to Christ. I can only comment on my experience...not say that it
will do the same for others.
> Anyway, this post is much longer than I wanted it to be, so please
> excuse me. Thanks for listening.
>
****it's never the length of a post but the content that keeps me.
> In Christ,
> Chayil
Blessings in Christ,
Bren.
GENTLEOWL SPIRIT
"Brenda G. Kent" <wt...@victoria.tc.ca> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.58.04...@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca...
This site has everything you ever wanted to know about JW. He is a survivor
of the JW cult and the site proves very interesting reading.
http://www.carm.org/witness.htm
Chayil
"Brenda G. Kent" <wt...@victoria.tc.ca> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.58.04...@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca...
>
> >
> > Yes, I understand. I don't discount the truth of what you say above.
> > However, let's get back to the comment from Brenda that initiatied my
> > post. She says that God alone will decide who is Christian and who is
> > not. IOW, we are not Christians just because WE say we are. We are
> > only Christians if HE says we are.
> >
>
> Brenda responds: yes?
Chayil: Okay *LOL* a yes with a question mark is still better than a no I
suppose. Is there a reason you question this? It is actually just a
restatemnt of your earlier comment unless I misunderstand.
>
> > As such, not ALL who say they are Christians are recognized by God as
> > such. That is true for individuals as well as denominations.
> >
>
> Bren: that may be true.
>
>
Chayil: What are your reservations? Didn't you say as much earlier when you
said that God would determine who is a Christian and who is not?
> > My position is that this forum are for those who are Christians (as
> > defined by God) not those who claim Christianity based on their own
> > reasoning and traditions. For as Brenda rightly said, only God can
> > say who is or is not a Christian.
>
> Bren: This forum is for those who believe they are Christian. How can one
> say who is or who is not Christian...unless God tells us who is?
Chayil: So the question is, does God communicate to us how to identify
Christians. If He does, then it is possible to identify those who He
considers Christians. True?
> Now do you take the Bible as the only way to Christianity? if you do..then
> you have one idea of Christianity...but is this as Christ would have
> wanted it? or is it the people who followed Jesus?
Chayil: No. I take Jesus as the only way to God. The Bible is simply His
words to us about Himself. I try not to speculate on what God would have
wanted. I let Him speak for Himself. He is able. ;-)
> I believe there are more ways of judging Christianity than the Bible and I
> believe that it is up to God within.
Chayil: Fair enough. "you believe..." Where do you get these beliefs?
Where do they originate? What if they conflict with another's view? Who is
right? Assuming that you believe God exists, then that means He is real.
As such, would it not be possible to know Him? And if it is possible to
know Him, then that means He has definite characteristics. If I say "I know
Brenda, she is a witch." And someone else says "Hey, I know Brenda too and
she is not a witch." Well, both comments cannot be correct because they
contradict each other. Either we are speaking of 2 different Brendas or one
of us knows Brenda and the other doesn't.
> I don't believe that people can say who is or who is not...with any
> absolute.
Chayil: But God can, and He can be absolute about it to. ;-) The only
question is does He communicate that to man.
>They can make their books and their laws etc. but it will always
> be God within who lets us know.
>
Chayil: Based on what? What God within? How do you know that there is a
"god" within? You state this as if it is a given, but is is only a belief.
On what are you basing this belief?
> IN my opinion.
>
Chayil: Yes. But are you satisfied with just your opinion? If it were
possible to know God - I mean know Him the way people know you (your likes,
your dislikes, your point of view...) - would you be interested? If God
exists and if He wants to communicate with us, would you be interested in
knowing what He has to say?
Thanks,
Chayil
Brenda G. Kent
>
> I made a point based on the fact that Brenda claims to
> be a witch and a Christian and that her denomination
> has no problem with it, according to her. You did not
> consider the context of my statement. Obviously, that
> would not be a Christian denomination, even though they
> label themselves as such.
*****in your opinion Dave.
Blessings
Bren.
Brenda G. Kent
***I never said I was a Christian Witch however.
There is a difference.
I am a Wiccan and a Christian....those are my major faiths.
I am a witch...that is what I do.
Blessings
Bren.