Let's talk about Colossians 2:16
Donna Kupp
Whenever the question of the Sabbath is discussed, those
who do not keep it holy will inevitably appeal to Colossians
2:16 as their authority for disobeying the fourth
commandment of God.
What exactly did Paul mean when he wrote:
"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or
in respect of a holyday, or of the new moon, or of the
Sabbath days:" (KJV)
Yes, when Paul said "Sabbaths" he meant the seventh day
Sabbath - but that does not mean that Paul was canceling
the requirement for obedience to a commandment of God.
What God has commanded only God can set aside. One
may search the New Testament for a thousand years and he
will not find a single verse that says God has abrogated one
"jot or tittle" of His fourth commandment.
What then was Paul talking about when he said to let no
man judge you in respect of Sabbaths? When we look at
this verse in its context it soon becomes apparent that Paul
was warning about the "Colossian Heresy" which was
another gospel based on asceticism and the worship of
angels in order to gain assistance from cosmic powers. The
essence of this heresy was that Christ alone was not
sufficient to deliver us from our slavery to sin.
As you will see from the following verses, Paul was warning
against three things that were being added to the gospel.
1. Traditions of men.
2. The worship of angels.
3. Submitting to doctrines of men.
COL 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy
and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the
rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
COL 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in
drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon,
or of the Sabbath days:
COL 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a
voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into
those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his
fleshly mind,
COL 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the
rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world,
are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle
not; Which all are to perish with the using;) AFTER THE
COMMANDMENTS AND DOCTRINES OF MEN?
KEEPING THE SABBATH DAY HOLY IS NOT A
DOCTRINE OF MEN!
Paul was not doing away with God's commandment; he was
warning against the false teachers who were saying that if
believers did not eat and drink the right food and keep the
festivals, new moons and Sabbaths ACCORDING TO CERTAIN
HUMAN REGULATIONS they would lose their reward.
According to verse :23 below, they were teaching that
without these ascetic regulations one could not overcome
the flesh:
COL 2:23 These [DOCTRINES OF MEN] have indeed
an appearance of wisdom in promoting rigor of devotion
and self-abasement and severity to the body, but they are of
no value in checking the indulgence of the flesh. (RSV)
One commentator summed up these verses by saying:
"We conclude then that in verse :16, the warning is not
against the Sabbath, festivals and dietary laws as such, but
rather against those who promote these practices as
indispensable aids to Christian perfection and as needed
protection from the 'elements [evil spiritual forces] of the
world' thus denying the all sufficiency of Christ."
(Samuele Bacchiocchi, From Sabbath To Sunday)
Now really, doesn't that explanation make a lot more sense
than the notion that Christians are no longer required to
obey the fourth commandment? It is a true saying that:
"The commandment is not nullified by the condemnation of
its abuse.".
The question we need to ask is this: "Was Paul condemning
the Sabbath day, or was he CONDEMNING THE
DOCTRINES OF MEN who added ritualistic and ascetic
restrictions to faith in Christ?"
In order to answer that dispute, one must look
at the broad picture. There is not a single verse in the
New Testament which states that Paul taught a new doctrine
that canceled the Sabbath commandment; nor is there any
record of a controversy between the Jews and Gentile
Christians over Sabbath-keeping. If Paul had been teaching
that the Sabbath commandment had been repealed, it would
have split the church wide open and he would have had to
answer the objections continuously in his epistles.
Think about it - if the Jewish believers made such a fuss
about circumcision being optional, imagine what they would
have said about the Sabbath day being revoked.
At some point we must use common sense and reason to
interpret what has been written. For example, does "Let no
man judge you in meat and drink..." mean that Christians
can be drunkards? Of course not, because you know that
God's word forbids drunkenness. Well, it also forbids
Sabbath-breaking!
It is only logical to assume that if God was going to cancel
one of His commandments, he would make that fact very clear.
Surely, if someone said to you: "Let no man judge you in
respect of murder or adultery" you would not assume that
God had changed His mind about those sins without solid
proof. Certainly, you would demand more evidence than
one lonely verse in the book of Colossians. Or would you?
Donna Kupp
NOTE:
In addition to the Greek and Latin manuscripts of the New
Testament, there is a third text called the Peshitta. The
Peshitta is from ancient Eastern manuscripts written in
Aramaic, the natural language of Jesus. Hebrews 4:9 in the
Peshitta text reads:
"It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the
Sabbath."
dk
I am not a Seventh Day Adventist (and never have been), a natural
Jew, or a Catholic. I am simply the least of Christ's brethren who
love Him and keep His Commandments.
The Seven Deadly Deceptions Of Counterfeit Christianity
http://www.freetruth.info
dolf
Clearly there is a problem with Adventist eschatology if WEEKS and DAYS
are an artifact of 6 x 364 day 'oth cycle.
Did the machzor gadol (ie. the great cycle using the 25th of March)
start with the outset of the Julian calendar and is this festival
implied by Colossians 2:16?
That of necessity the fixation for the adoption of astronomical cycles
follows upon the 5th century discovery by an Athenian astronomer of the
19 year menotic or lunar cycle with its 354 and 383 days (plus a
formulation for a 1 day intercalation) was a later development and
inclusion within Judaism, to strive for co-existence with this erroneous
Julian calendar requirement of the Roman State--The method of marking
the cycle [ie. 10,227 (28 times 365.25) days] of machzor gadol (ie. the
great cycle using the 25th of March) was invalidated in 1582 when the
Julian calendar was replaced by the Gregorian calendar by decree of Pope
Gregory XIII. Raising the obvious question of integrity, that if the
Jews worshipped the God of creation for which the sabbath as seventh day
is observed and the sun and moon are intrinsic to the fourth day
[Genesis 1:14-19], why the lack of congruity as rational computational
understanding of the chronological instruments of that creation? The
Sabbath as a rule associated with the Priestly service divisions of 24 x
7 x 13 = 2184 days as 6D (6 x 364 days) is determined by computation
from the Wednesday of the March Equinox following the elapse of 6
Jubilees as 294 x 364 days.
Donna Kupp
::: Jesus is LORD :::
What do you say to Donna's post? Are you speechless? I see...
Do you keep the Sabbath as Donna is claiming below??
By the way, Donna just claims to keep it, but she does not keep it
herself. No Jew would be allowed to post in a newsgroup on a Sabbath.
Some even have their websites closed on a Sabbath, and you cannot even
read there.
Just keep the law, Diana, and go to hell for it. You know what I mean.
You prefer the LAW to GRACE, and that is why. You CANNOT keep the whole
law, but you would have to if you tried.
Donna is a sectarian, and you have defended her for years here. How many
might she have misled by her posts? I hope that they are not many,
because there have always been a few faithful Christians doing their job
here, no matter what the world or a chanting (or was it ranting?) club
would say.
--
___________________________________________________
http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de
http://the-beauty-of-the-psalms.blogspot.com
http://jesus-christ-is-my-lord-and-my-god.blogspot.com
http://bible-prophecy-and-revelation.blogspot.com/
Donna Kupp dk...@charter.net wrote in
a0454732-a7e8-41a1...@h40g2000prf.googlegroups.com
> The Seven Deadly Deceptions Of Donna Kupp and Hubby
> http://www.freetruth.info
Donna Kupp
Donna writes to Dolf,
The scriptures teach that week days are from sunset to sunset.
Therefore, the seventh day Sabbath is from sunset of the sixth day
to sunset of the seventh day.
On the otherhand, the feast days are calculated from the appearance
of the new moon.
Donna Kupp
On Dec 18, 7:35 pm, dolf <dolfb...@grapple.id.au> wrote:
dolf
transitioning from the 364 day temple calendar to the 365.25 day Julian
calendar of Paul's day.
On 19/12/09 2:59 PM, Donna Kupp wrote:
> On Dec 18, 7:35 pm, dolf<dolfb...@grapple.id.au> wrote:
>> JUBILEES, WEEKS (eg: 70 weeks) and DAYS (eg: 2300 days)
>>
>> Clearly there is a problem with Adventist eschatology if WEEKS and DAYS
>> are an artifact of 6 x 364 day 'oth cycle.
>>
>> Did the machzor gadol (ie. the great cycle using the 25th of March)
>> start with the outset of the Julian calendar and is this festival
>> implied by Colossians 2:16?
>>
>> That of necessity the fixation for the adoption of astronomical cycles
>> follows upon the 5th century BCE discovery by an Athenian astronomer of the
>> 19 year menotic or lunar cycle with its 354 and 383 days (plus a
>> formulation for a 1 day intercalation) was a later development and
>> inclusion within Judaism, to strive for co-existence with this erroneous
>> Julian calendar requirement of the Roman State--The method of marking
>> the cycle [ie. 10,227 (28 times 365.25) days] of machzor gadol (ie. the
>> great cycle using the 25th of March) was invalidated in 1582 when the
>> Julian calendar was replaced by the Gregorian calendar by decree of Pope
>> Gregory XIII. Raising the obvious question of integrity, that if the
>> Jews worshipped the God of creation for which the sabbath as seventh day
>> is observed and the sun and moon are intrinsic to the fourth day
>> [Genesis 1:14-19], why the lack of congruity as rational computational
>> understanding of the chronological instruments of that creation? The
>> Sabbath as a rule associated with the Priestly service divisions of 24 x
>> 7 x 13 = 2184 days as 6D (6 x 364 days) 'oth cycle is determined by computation
dolf
from sunset to sunset and the festival of new moons (note the metonic
cycle is 19 years was known at the time) creates a problem of transition
from the 364 day temple calendar to the Julian calendar as State
innovation and obligation by vassal states in Paul's day.
Its a very complex set of supposition to suggest how the temple
timetable of priestly service was connected to the new moon--which
existed until the temple was destroyed in 70 CE.
But it is possible that a new moon intercalation was adopted as the
means of transition between calendars--I presume that the passion of
Christ may have occurred during this requirement for such a transition.
Its a very complex area.
dolf
Sun the Priestly Division would have regarded this as an issue of the
March Equinox in proximity to a new moon--if a new moon occurred in
proximity, then we know from the archaeology that people made
assumptions based on that occurring. Whereas the Julian calendar would
have regard it from 25 March--I mention this as an example where there
is a contention with respects to the God of Creation.
That it is mentioned in writings of 165-257 CE gives no indication as to
when the festival was implemented. If the Julian calendar was adopted
in Paul's day as part of the Jewish obligations to the Roman State, then
the 28 year festival could have occurred in his time.
I only raise this as a example of the contention between the Temple
practice on the one hand and the requirements of the Roman State on the
other hand.
It appears from the institution of the Jewish cosmological based
festival Birkat Hachama ('Blessing on the Sun') and its usage of a table
of transposition in representing the week with all the 24 hours marked
and labelled by the ruling "planet" associated with the adoption of the
Julian calendar of 365.25 days as a tradition which continues to this
day, that this was the source and cause of contention [Galatians 4:8-11]
as antagonism with the temple priestly service divisions turning point
of 20 March each 6J or 294 x 364 or 293 x 365.2423 days: "To show itself
from the east and to shine forth in the center of the sky at the base of
the expanse of the sky, from evening to morning on the 4th day from
Sabbath, during the course of the sons of Gamul, in the first month of
the first year." [Dead Sea Scroll 4Q320] The alternate institution of
Birkat Hachama mentioned in the Talmud (ruling of Samuel of Nehardea
165-257 CE) concerns an equivalent creation cosmological 'turning point'
associated with a 28 year zodiacal cycle: "Our rabbis taught: 'One who
sees the sun at its turning point...recites the blessing of 'the maker
of works of creation. ...when the cycle renews and the 'season of Nisan'
(i.e. vernal equinox) falls in Saturn, on the evening of Tuesday going
into Wednesday."
Glen Waverly
" ::: Jesus is LORD :::" <jesus-...@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:7p322r...@mid.individual.net...
> DIANA?
>
> What do you say to Donna's post? Are you speechless? I see...
>
> Do you keep the Sabbath as Donna is claiming below??
>
> By the way, Donna just claims to keep it, but she does not keep it
> herself. No Jew would be allowed to post in a newsgroup on a Sabbath. Some
> even have their websites closed on a Sabbath, and you cannot even read
> there.
Exactly
posting on Newsgroups is against G-d
::: Jesus is LORD :::
> " ::: Jesus is LORD :::" <jesus-...@lycos.com> wrote in message
> news:7p322r...@mid.individual.net...
>> DIANA?
>>
>> What do you say to Donna's post? Are you speechless? I see...
>>
>> Do you keep the Sabbath as Donna is claiming below??
>>
>> By the way, Donna just claims to keep it, but she does not keep it
>> herself. No Jew would be allowed to post in a newsgroup on a
>> Sabbath. Some even have their websites closed on a Sabbath, and you
>> cannot even read there.
>
> Exactly
> posting on Newsgroups is against G-d
Thanks for your input, Glen. May I ask you if you are a Jew? Or a
Messianic Jew?
Feel welcome to ACC. Sit down and take a coffee, please. :-)
Glen Waverly
> Glen Waverly Gl...@tpg.org wrote in 4b2c5e05$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au
>> " ::: Jesus is LORD :::" <jesus-...@lycos.com> wrote in message
>> news:7p322r...@mid.individual.net...
>>> DIANA?
>>>
>>> What do you say to Donna's post? Are you speechless? I see...
>>>
>>> Do you keep the Sabbath as Donna is claiming below??
>>>
>>> By the way, Donna just claims to keep it, but she does not keep it
>>> herself. No Jew would be allowed to post in a newsgroup on a
>>> Sabbath. Some even have their websites closed on a Sabbath, and you
>>> cannot even read there.
>>
>> Exactly
>> posting on Newsgroups is against G-d
>
> Thanks for your input, Glen. May I ask you if you are a Jew? Or a
> Messianic Jew?
>
> Feel welcome to ACC. Sit down and take a coffee, please. :-)
thanks for the welcome. I appreciate it
My God is a mystery.
I am an atheist by belief.
::: Jesus is LORD :::
Oh, finally! I have prayed the Lord would send us an atheist. :-) I like
talking with atheists, Glen.
Could you please tell me why you left the letter "o" out in the word
"G-d"? I have usually only seen that done by Jewish people.
Any milk or sugar?
:-)
::: Jesus is LORD :::
> X-No-Archive: Yes> news:7p3bd...@mid.individual.net...
> Please DO NOT trust her ! She will take anything you post and use it
> against you like she does everyone here except for two men Randy and
> Fred. All others she libels and spews her hatred and bitterness and
> then has the gall to say she is a Christian.
Ummm.... there are actually just a handful of so-called "Christians"
whom I reject, especially those who want to corrupt Christmas, the
Gospel and Jesus, sectarians like Donna Kupp or "Pastor" Dave. Christmas
is in my heart, and Glen would as well get a hot wine from me if he
prefers this to coffee.
Glen, I am not the libeller here - they are.
Tell me, would a Christian ever spit her hate between two peacefully
talking people like the two of us? I have never seen such a Christian.
She is trolling, and has been trolling and tyrannizing these Christian
groups for years.
Really, I am glad you came here, and I am looking forward to some
peaceful and encouraging conversations with you. No need to post
anything personal at all. Believe me, they will abuse it, and now you
have met one of them already.
I recommend you to block this lady. Her friends are: Mark Tindall (AKA
"I" or "Me"), Matt, Amazing Grace, Glenn McClary (AKA Oldwetdog) and - I
think that's it. You might also count "House" and Rod in - I am not
sure. She is the best friend of anyone who makes trouble here in usenet.
It is such a shame, because so many people left because of them already.
I hope you will stay and help us make a group where real conversations
are possible.
I am sure you are not interested in such a kind of libel, and more in
really good conversations, right? What would you like to talk about?
Vera
::: Jesus is LORD :::
>> DIANA?
>>
>> What do you say to Donna's post? Are you speechless? I see...
>>
>> Do you keep the Sabbath as Donna is claiming below??
>>
>
> believe is between God and me not Vera and me?
So why are you posting in this group if you do not want to share your
views about Christ? Do you believe this is your private newsgroup?
> I owe you nothing. I
> owe you nothing of how I think, feel or believe. I owe only God the
> Father. Get over yourself.
You do not owe anyone here anything, Diana, but you really look funny
for everybody who is a Christian. If you want to keep the law with
Donna, and if you want to celebrate Christmas under your Pagan Apple
Tree, just go for it! It will not help, but it cannot make it any worse
as it is with you already, either. Lost is lost.
I
> Welcome Glen.
Ditto.
> I would like to warn you that if you do not agree with Vera or Randy or
> Fred you might want to keep it to yourself as they will harass and stalk
> you and please never post private information about yourself because they
> will use it against you and post it in multiple newsgroups to try to
> defame you and destroy your witness.
Yep! This is the usual thing Vera Six aka " ::: Jesus is LORD :::"
<jesus-...@lycos.com> and Randy Young aka "�" <pulpi...@gmail.com>
repeatedly do. They will also complain to your ISP.
Randy Young aka "�" <pulpi...@gmail.com> is a fundamentalist thug with
some sort of OCD problem.
Repetition of the OCD kind seems to be Randy Young �'s life
considering his DUPLICATED emails from this newsgroup posters at
- http://groups.google.com.au/group/faithguard?hl=en
- http://www.faithguard.org/
- http://www.hopeguard.org/
- http://pulpitfire.blogspot.com/
4 907 posts in each of the four sites which is a TOTAL: of 19 628 DUPLICATED
posts on his sites!!!!!
Randy Young � also spams this newsgroup with the same replies over and over
every day.
Ask yourself what normal person does such a thing.
Randy Young � thinks this daily abuse is "guarding the faith". I quote from
http://groups.google.com.au/groups/profile?hl=en&enc_user=DiLFqxQAAAABcCxRJnfNjIMMZ6pfmxxyOPANdqfI6prRsqjc7uCt1A
#######################################################
There's little I enjoy more than coming into these groups to guard the faith
#######################################################
IS "guarding the faith" abusing Christians and calling Christian women
"whores" on this newsgroup and reporting them to their ISPs over trivial
matters??????
My ISP calls Randy Young's daily rants "ABUSE". I quote:
############################################
I just got an email from your ISP saying it was returned for innappropriate
language. ... talking about the headers where Randy is calling *[Christian
women] whores.
MAILER...@tpg.com.au to me
show details 8:04 PM (3 minutes ago)
Your message has been prevented from delivery because it contains language
that is not appropriate. TPG reserves the right to protect its staff and
members from this type of abuse.
You are encouraged to re-write your message before sending it again. A copy
of your original message is below.
##############################################
RANDY YOUNG �'s HATE SPEECH ADVOCATING SPOUSAL RAPE ......
#########################################
Newsgroups: alt.christnet.prayer
From: Randy <pulpi...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 17:00:42 -0500
Local: Wed, Sep 27 2006 9:00 am
Subject: Re: Daily prayer needed
On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 18:13:40 GMT,
in article <o5eSg.3763$pq4.3...@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com>,
...
I don't need to, because she believes what 1 Corinthians 7 says when
it says the husband's body belongs to the wife, and not to himself,
and the wife's body belongs to the husband, and not herself, and that
benevolence is "due" as a command of God for the promotion of holy
living. The only way you can commit "rape" in a marriage, is if you
deny what the Bible teaches when it says the husband's and wives'
bodies belong to each other, but not to themselves, and the fact God
has commanded benevolence, calling it "due", in favor of the laws and
customs of those who deny the authority of the Bible.
###############################################
--
Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from
religious conviction." ---Blaise Pascal
--
The most pronounced characteristics [of fundamentalists] are the following:
(a) a very strong emphasis on the inerrancy of the Bible, the absence from
it of any sort of error;
(b) a strong hostility to modern theology and to the methods, results and
implications of modern critical study of the Bible;
(c) an assurance that those who do not share their religious viewpoint are
not really 'true Christians' at all.
- James Barr "Fundamentalism" (SCM Press:1977) p.1
I
> so-called "Christians" whom I reject
Thus proving absolutely correct ........
::: Jesus is LORD :::
>> Diana shech...@reborn.com wrote in 7p3bmg...@mid.individual.net
>>> X-No-Archive: Yes
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> " ::: Jesus is LORD :::" <jesus-...@lycos.com> wrote in message
>>> news:7p322r...@mid.individual.net...
>>>> DIANA?
>>>>
>>>> What do you say to Donna's post? Are you speechless? I see...
>>>>
>>>> Do you keep the Sabbath as Donna is claiming below??
>>>>
>>>
>>> Vera are you earless? Have I not told you in past times that what I
>>> believe is between God and me not Vera and me?
>>
>> So why are you posting in this group if you do not want to share
>> your views about Christ? Do you believe this is your private
>> newsgroup?
>
> is for all. I have been here for nine years. I intend to stay even
> longer.
So since it is unmoderated, you feel free to make as much trouble as you
can? I see. Just what I thought already.
>
>>> I owe you nothing. I
>>> owe you nothing of how I think, feel or believe. I owe only God the
>>> Father. Get over yourself.
>>
>> You do not owe anyone here anything, Diana, but you really look
>> funny for everybody who is a Christian. If you want to keep the law
>> with Donna, and if you want to celebrate Christmas under your Pagan
>> Apple Tree, just go for it! It will not help, but it cannot make it
>> any worse as it is with you already, either. Lost is lost.
>
> I only look funny to you, Randy and Fred because the three of you are
> full of hate and bitterness and ONLY because the rest of us do not
> let the three of you bully us around. You three stalk us post to post
> with hatred and libel. You three harass the rest of us and woe to us
> if we do not bow to the three of you. We are called "Whores" ,
> "Satan" "Idiots" etc.
You have never been called "whore" or "satan". We do not lie, hypocrite!
Just look at YOUR posts:
On Tuesday, July 07, 2009 7:54 PM [GMT+1=CET],
Diana <shech...@reborn.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> No! You _do_ share the evil work of those you choose to
>>> _"welcome"_ here, and they will be the first to tell you they
>>> are promoting different doctrines of Christ and different
>>
>>
>> Sensi:
>> There was *no evil work.* Why do you create one when there wasn't
>> one to begin with?
>
> Because he is being led by the devil.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
There you say Randy is "led by the devil".
"Mark Tindall" <m_b_t...@NOSPAMtpg.com.au> wrote in
message news:40ca5d7f$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> ":::vera:::" wrote:
>
> > I addition I would like to say, that I denied all
things coming from
> >Satan when converting to Jesus. I take this
seriously. Very
> > seriously. I was in the occult. Why should someone
want me to read a
> >letter from Satan?
>
>
> Vera changed from witch to bitch.
>
> I luv you, Vera.
>
>
ROFLMBBO Oh Gosh you could have given a beverage alert
ya know LOL ohhhhhhhh gosh. Mark darlin I needed that
big laugh. I will wake up tomorrow thinking of this
still laughing.
Diana
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You got a big laugh out of it when your brother called me a "witch" or a
"bitch".
On Wednesday, September 09, 2009 4:39 PM [GMT+1=CET],
Diana <shech...@reborn.com> wrote:
> She only proved she is NOT a Christian that she has NOT given up her
> witchcraft and her magic. Now everyone knows for sure without having
> to just think or guess it.
And there you call me a witch.
> just because we won't spew our hate to everyone
Pardon me? You have spewed hate as long as I have known you - like
above, or worse.
> you three do not like. We do not follow Randy, Vera and Fred. I for
> one follow Jesus not the three of you as you three lay wait to seek,
> kill and destroy us.
No need for that. You have condemned yourselves already.
Go keeping the law with Donna and ignore Jesus.
Go scoffing with Mark and ignore Jesus.
Go telling the homosexuals lies and ignore Jesus.
Go where you belong, and leave the Christians in peace.
®
Donna Kupp <dk...@charter.net> wrote:
> COLOSSIANS 2:16
>
> Whenever the question of the Sabbath is discussed...
you expose yourself as an heretic. Entering into "rest" means
you cease from your own works to rest in Christ's finished work
alone (Galatians; Hebrews). What happened to the man who picked
up sticks on the Sabbath? He was stoned to death. Christ is the
Sabbath rest of God for believers. Any attempt to establish your
righteousness on the basis of your own works, rather than resting
in the finished work of Christ in paying for our sins, will
result in eternal damnation, just as the man who picked up sticks
instead of resting on the Sabbath. Amazing you would try to make
an issue out of keeping the Sabbath, when, by promoting your
false, merit-based gospel rather than resting in Christ, you go
about gathering sticks on the Sabbath, to your own eternal damnation.
--
Have you heard Christ died for our sins, and God raised Him
from the dead? Did you know God saves you from hell and
gives you eternal life through faith in this finished work alone,
not your merits (Jn. 3:16; 1 Cor. 15:1-3; Eph. 2:8-10; 2 Thess.
1:8-9)? This is so man cannot boast, and God alone gets the
glory (Eph. 2:8-9).
______________________________________________
www.faithguard.org
www.twitter.com/faithguard
www.facebook.com/faithguard
______________________________________________
Donna Kupp
It is lawful to do good on the sabbath --but, we must not be paid
for the good that we do.
I will not let any man judge me, according to the traditions of men,
in matters regarding sabbath observance. Jesus taught on the
sabbath day --and so will I!
Luke 4:31 And came down to Capernaum, a city of Galilee, and
taught them on the sabbath days.
Donna Kupp
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/show.php?i=630302&cat=0
®
Donna Kupp <dk...@charter.net> wrote:
> It is lawful to do good on the sabbath
And trying to achieve your own righteousness is not "good".
Entering into "rest" means you cease from your own works to rest
in Christ's finished work alone (Galatians; Hebrews). What
happened to the man who picked up sticks on the Sabbath? He was
stoned to death. Christ is the Sabbath rest of God for
believers. Any attempt to establish your righteousness on the
basis of your own works, rather than resting in the finished work
of Christ in paying for our sins, will result in eternal
damnation, just as the man who picked up sticks instead of
resting on the Sabbath.
--
Donna Kupp
Testament, there is a third text called the Peshitta. The
Peshitta is from ancient Eastern manuscripts written in
Aramaic, the natural language of Jesus. Hebrews 4:9 in the
Peshitta text reads:
"It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the
Sabbath."
Donna Kupp
Teresita
> Hebrews 4:9 in the
> Peshitta text reads:
>
> "It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the
> Sabbath."
Duty means work. The context of the passage is to rest from work.
--
Teresita
http://hackylinux.blogspot.com/
I
> You have never been called "whore" or "satan". We do not lie
That's one of the BIGGEST lies Vera Six has told!!!!
dolf
bickering coming from Vera and her pack.
dolf
Donna Kupp
Donna writes to Dolf,
What matters to me is the hope that someday, Jesus will say to me:
"Well done, good and faithful servant."
I thank God that his rewards are not based upon success; but
upon faithfulness.
Donna Kupp
> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 06:07:08 -0800, Donna Kupp wrote:
> > Hebrews 4:9 in the
> > Peshitta text reads:
>
> > "It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the
> > Sabbath."
> Duty means work. The context of the passage is to rest from work.
Here, the Preacher shows us that duty means obedience!
"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep
his commandments: for this is THE WHOLE DUTY OF MAN" Ecclesiastes
12:13
(You cannot be keeping His Commandments if you are breaking them.)
::: Jesus is LORD :::
c9451cbb-782d-4891...@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com
> (You cannot be keeping His Commandments if you are breaking them.)
>
> Donna Kupp
Donna's hypocrisy apart, she wants to crucify Jesus again...
Lord of the Sabbath
1And it came to pass on the second sabbath after the first, that he went
through the corn fields; and his disciples plucked the ears of corn, and
did eat, rubbing them in their hands.
2And certain of the Pharisees said unto them, Why do ye that which is
not lawful to do on the sabbath days?
3And Jesus answering them said, Have ye not read so much as this, what
David did, when himself was an hungred, and they which were with him;
4How he went into the house of God, and did take and eat the shewbread,
and gave also to them that were with him; which it is not lawful to eat
but for the priests alone?
5And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the
sabbath.
6And it came to pass also on another sabbath, that he entered into the
synagogue and taught: and there was a man whose right hand was withered.
7And the scribes and Pharisees watched him, whether he would heal on
the sabbath day; that they might find an accusation against him.
8But he knew their thoughts, and said to the man which had the withered
hand, Rise up, and stand forth in the midst. And he arose and stood
forth.
9Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on
the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy
it?
10And looking round about upon them all, he said unto the man, Stretch
forth thy hand. And he did so: and his hand was restored whole as the
other.
11And they were filled with madness; and communed one with another what
they might do to Jesus.
Luke 6: 1-11 (KJV)
Read on for the context or listen to this passage there:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+6&version=KJV
::: Jesus is LORD :::
> On Dec 19, 3:21 pm, dolf <dolfb...@grapple.id.au> wrote:
>> It was a well thought out post Donna. But it is lost on all the usual
>> bickering coming from Vera and her pack.
>>
>> dolf
>>
>> On 20/12/09 12:36 AM, Donna Kupp wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Reader,
>>
>>> It is lawful to do good on the sabbath --but, we must not be paid
>>> for the good that we do.
>>
>>> I will not let any man judge me, according to the traditions of men,
>>> in matters regarding sabbath observance. Jesus taught on the
>>> sabbath day --and so will I!
>>
>>> Luke 4:31 And came down to Capernaum, a city of Galilee, and
>>> taught them on the sabbath days.
>>
>>> Donna Kupp
>>
>>> http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/show.php?i=630302&cat=0
>>
>>> The Seven Deadly Deceptions Of Counterfeit Christianity
>>> http://www.freetruth.info
>
> Donna writes to Dolf,
>
> What matters to me is the hope that someday, Jesus will say to me:
>
> "Well done, good and faithful servant."
>
> I thank God that his rewards are not based upon success; but
> upon faithfulness.
The faithfulness of the Israelites is a little like yours:
7And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which
thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves:
8They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them:
they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have
sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have
brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. 9And the LORD said unto
Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked
people - Exodus 32:7-9 (KJV)
Donna is "faithful", but she is not faithful to Jesus Christ, or she
would have given up her faith in the law and accepted His grace instead.
But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not
attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it
not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled
at that stumblingstone; As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a
stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall
not be ashamed. (Romans 9:31-33 KJV)
> Donna Kupp
Jesus is LORD!
dolf
On 21/12/09 3:28 AM, ::: Jesus is LORD ::: wrote:
> While not "keeping the Sabbath", Donna Kupp dk...@charter.net wrote in
> c9451cbb-782d-4891...@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com
>> (You cannot be keeping His Commandments if you are breaking them.)
>>
>> Donna Kupp
>
> Donna's hypocrisy apart, she wants to crucify Jesus again...
>
>
Its a bit delusional to call her a hypocrite and hysterical she wants to
crucify Jesus again.
Such statements by you are manufactured by you and demonstrate the
futility in having any discussion with Vera Six (what ever her name is).
Perhaps Donna is of the view that the early Christians were Jewish and
that such Christians were persecuted for hundreds of years from 80 CE in
the Colosseum.
Perhaps the problem arises due to the transcendent claims of Christian
belief extends beyond there being universally accepted that there are 7
days and only seven days in a week--and this has not changed.
dolf
as was Jesus' custom and the custom of the early church as synagogues?
::: Jesus is LORD :::
medXm.63355$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au
> It was a well thought out post Donna.
So true, but that was all. It had nothing to do with God's Truth. It
was - well, well "thought out" by *Donna*. And no Holy Spirit in sight,
not any Biblical truth...
Good point. Dolf!
I hope you had a great Hannukah!
::: Jesus is LORD :::
ocxXm.63612$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au
> Vera what is the problem with regard for the Sabbath as the seventh
> day as was Jesus' custom and the custom of the early church as
> synagogues?
Dolf, I have no problem with the Sabbath, or with whoever wants to keep
it. What Donna is doing is something different, though, for she claims
to be a Christian, and wants to tell the Christians that they MUST keep
the Sabbath and the law. But we Christians believe that we are saved by
God's love only, by His grace, when He sent Jesus Christ to die for our
sins in our place. Christians are not saved by circumcision, but by the
blood of Jesus Christ. He paid for all of our sins if we believe in Him.
That is what Christians believe. It is the heart of Christianity, and
Donna has made something else out of it.
Her hypocrisy is not in keeping the Sabbath (which she does not really
do, or she would not post here in ACC on those days), but in distorting
the New Testament to her liking. If she said she was a Jew I would
accept her views, but she claims to be a Christian... yet she lies about
the New Testament, and has done so for years already.
Have a look here what Paul said, "For by grace are ye saved through
faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of G-d: Not of works,
lest any man should boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV)
teresita
> "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep
> his commandments: for this is THE WHOLE DUTY OF MAN" Ecclesiastes 12:13
That was of course true in the Old Covenant when it was written. Now the
commandments are to love God and love man. The law of love has triumphed
over the love of law.
--
Teresita
http://hackylinux.blogspot.com/
Donna Kupp
Donna Kupp writes to Teresita,
Please explain to the group how you can love God --or your neighbor
without obeying the Ten Commandments.
Donna Kupp
http://groups.google.com/group/Freetruth?hl=en,
::: Jesus is LORD :::
believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever
liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? (John
11:25-26 KJV)
You are preaching a false gospel of works, and have been doing so for
years already. Your godhead is not the same as the Christian God,
either.
Jesus is LORD.
--
___________________________________________________
http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de
http://the-beauty-of-the-psalms.blogspot.com
http://jesus-christ-is-my-lord-and-my-god.blogspot.com
http://bible-prophecy-and-revelation.blogspot.com/
Donna Kupp dk...@charter.net wrote in
37b0e35b-a70c-4ea0...@e37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com
I
> You are preaching a false gospel
Rabid fundamentalist nutters like Vera Six and Randy Young � think that they
have the only true gospel in the universe. The problem is that their "good
news / gospel" is nothing but "bad news / gob spill". A return to the
Fundamentalist Dark Age is NOT good news of any sort!
#############################################
GOOD NEWS - GOSPEL
MARK'S GOSPEL (ending at Mark 16:8)
1:15; 4:11; 4:14; 6:12; 9:1;13:9-10 all describe the gospel / good news as
announcing that the kingdom [realm] of God is here so one must turn away
from one's sins. Nothing more! Count how many times Jesus says the "the
kingdom of God is like" in Mark's gospel!
MATTHEW'S GOSPEL
4:17; 4:23; 5:19; 6:33; 7:21; 9:35; 10:7; 11:12; 12:28; 13:11; 13:19; 13:38;
13;52; 18:2; 19:23; 21:31 21:43; 23:13; 24:34; 25:34 ff; 26:13; describe the
gospel / good news as announcing that the kingdom [realm] of heaven is here
so one must turn away from one's sins. Nothing more! (Matthew prefers
'kingdom of heaven" to "kingdom of God") Count how many times Jesus says
the "the kingdom of heaven is like" in Matthew's gospel!
#################################################
Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God [YAHWEH NOT YAHWEH'S HUMAN CHRIST /
MESSIAH Jesus of Nazareth] with all your heart and with all your soul and
with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest
commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'
All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." Matthew
22:37-40
This echoes the Jewish Shema in Deuteronomy 6:4-5 "Hear, O Isarael! The LORD
*[YAHWEH] is our God, the LORD *[YAHWEH] alone. You shall love the LORD
*[YAHWEH] your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all
your might."
Jesus of Nazareth is not referred to in either the Shema or the Greatest
Commandment.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The most pronounced characteristics [of fundamentalists] are the following:
(a) a very strong emphasis on the inerrancy of the Bible, the absence from
it of any sort of error;
(b) a strong hostility to modern theology and to the methods, results and
implications of modern critical study of the Bible;
(c) an assurance that those who do not share their religious viewpoint are
not really 'true Christians' at all.
- James Barr "Fundamentalism" (SCM Press:1977) p.1
--
MY BLOG - MARK T - my thoughts on Christianity & links
http://www.blognow.com.au/strooth/
MY SOUNDCLICK PAGE- download my original songs in mp3 format
http://www.soundclick.com/marktindall
Donna Kupp
Note: Disrespectful posts will no longer be answered directly; and
most of the time, I will start a new thread for my essays and answers
to questions and objections.
Hostile interference has made it difficult to find my posts. So for
anyone who is interested in what I have to say, I suggest that you
click on my profile next to my name; and then click on sorted by date.
You are also welcome to visit my journal here:
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/show.php?i=630302&cat=0
and our website here:
The Seven Deadly Deceptions Of Counterfeit Christianity
http://www.freetruth.info
Donna Kupp
Ted L
news:10f373c6-40b7-4e70-b696-
> Hostile interference has made it difficult to find my posts. So for
> anyone who is interested in what I have to say, I suggest that you
> click on my profile next to my name; and then click on sorted by date.
Don't worry Donna, finding a works-based religion that cheapens Christ's
blood to an ancillary aspect of salvation that merely augments the sinner's
efforts isn't difficult.
Only a "Christ-alone" trust will reconcile the sinner from the jaws of hell,
however.
(see for example: <http://www.sermonandsongministries.org/Salvation.htm>)
::: Jesus is LORD :::
oK60n.3996$cW....@newsreading01.news.tds.net
Correct, Bros. Ted!
Thanks for the link! Everybody should know about that.
:-)
Donna Kupp
"THE GRACE OF GOD DOES NOT REMOVE THE NEED
FOR HOLINESS, ON THE CONTRARY...
HIS GRACE MAKES POSSIBLE THE HOLINESS WE NEED.
If we continue to commit sin, on Judgement Day we will be
among those who called Jesus 'Lord, Lord', but will be told by
Him:
"Depart from me ye that work iniquity" (Matt 7:23)
Those poor souls had been called by God's grace (unmerited favor)
but refused God's grace (divine influence to restrain from sin).
Their end is eternal destruction!"
You can read the complete article "What Does It Mean To Be
Saved By Grace?" at this link:
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/view.php?u=1098589
Donna Kupp
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/show.php?i=630302&cat=0
Ted L
Donna,
I heard a great sermon from the late Adrian Rogers this morning who
explained "keeping" the commandments as more of a navagational term
for the regenerate; otherwise every last one of us are condemened and
Christ's blood paid for some but not all sins--and he was not able to
purchase any of us. We set the course of our walk by the commandments
in the same way a ship's navigator "keeps" the stars, and can know our
fellowship walk in Christ by our adherence thereto...we don't doubt
our salvation, that's forgone for those that are saved.
Donna Kupp
Hello Ted,
We have to enter the harbor to receive eternal life...
"But he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved." Mat 24:13
To be saved we must endure to the end (Greek "goal reached") The
goal of those who believe in Jesus is to repent of sin and become
the children of God - those who are born of God.
To be "saved" is the first step in the process of receiving eternal
life. One can easily see the confusion in peoples minds if they are
taught that to be saved means to receive eternal life.
I refer you to the complete article that I posted today under the
title:
"Saved".
Donna Kupp
http://groups.google.com/group/Freetruth?hl=en,