what is holy laughter ?
JOSEPH DIMAGGIO
that I need to jump into to get another drink. What in the world is this all
about ? is this biblical ?
cdo...@my-dejanews.com
The Vineyard Movement -- or Toronto Blessing. Hank Hannegraaf of the
Christian Research Institute talks abt them in several of his books and
articles.
Check out http://www.equip.org/index.htm or give them a call for his book
"Counterfeit Revival".
>
>
--
Best regards,
Charles dowis
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Peter Besenbruch
<jdt...@nauticom.net> wrote:
>someone told me that its the new move of God, with a new wine, and a river
>that I need to jump into to get another drink. What in the world is this all
>about ? is this biblical ?
It's controversial. Here are some less polemical links:
http://www.roehampton.ac.uk/link/toronto/toronto.htm (Methodist)
http://users.vei.net/ihs/presby.htm (Presbyterian)
___________________________________________________
Hawaiian Astronomical Society http://www.hawastsoc.org
HAS Deepsky Atlas http://www.hawastsoc.org/deepsky
Delete the "nobulk." for the true e-mail address.
The DataRat
The Calvinist Rodent has heard audio
recordings of "holy laughter" taped at
the Toronto Airport Vineyard Fellowship.
Hearing it is like an sound clip from Hell !
"Holy laughter" is another device of
Satan, not dissimilar from being
"Slain in the Spirit", designed to divert
us from the Word of God. A lot of
heretical theology accompanies it. Like
the doctrine that certain modern "apostles"
exceed the authority of even Peter and
Paul !
"Holy Laughter" ( aka: "The Laughing
Revival" or "the Toronto Blessing" ) started
in 1994 at the Toronto Airport Vineyard
Fellowship. It is based on the false teachings
of Rodney Howard-Browne, an apostate from
South African.
One of the sub-phenomenons is "drunk in
the spirit". The term being quite literal (one
of it's proponents once saying that he was
concerned about being stopped by police
for DUI because he was "drunk in the spirit" ).
The Genevan Rodent supposes they get
their proof text from Acts 2:13, where some
non-Believers thought the Christians at
Pentecost were drunk. Peter, however, went
to great pains to deny drunkenness ( Acts 2:15 ).
And we must bear in mind that it was PAGANS
who misconstrued the behavior of Christians
as intoxication !
The successor to the Toronto Blessing is
the Brownsville Revival. It has many of the
same characteristics, including bizarre
"spiritual manifestations". None of which is
new to the wacko fringe of the American
pentecostal movement: Bro. Rat recalls
the "Holy Rollers" from 40 years ago (they
rolled around on church floors in divine
ecstasy). Before that, snake handling was
popular.
Satan will always be glad to encourage
"Christians" to make damn fools out of
themselves as a way of discrediting Christ !
"Let all things be done decently and in
order." ( 1 Corinthians 14:40 KJV )
The DataRat
helpu
like the Jewish people in the days of Moses worshipped the snake that God
formerly had them look to to be healed and again fell into idolatry,...
Xians , because of our sin nature that still is in our minds,can also take
the joy and blessings of the Spirit of God ( sometimes being laughter) and
elavate them and seek them when God wants us to see Him as the source. Do
not see the result, which varies from person to person, as the source.
Some denom. have people falling back shaking etc.. While some may have
reacted to the joy of God in such a way(and let me tell you His joy is
powerful at times) that does make it the norm or suggest that we should seek
after it,.. Seek God not an experience.
hope this will
helpu
JOSEPH DIMAGGIO wrote in message <366d6...@news.nauticom.net>...
ro...@my-dejanews.com
"helpu" <he...@prodigy.com> wrote:
> Seek God not an experience.
This statement in a nutshell is the measure of any "experience" that you have.
If the experience is central, avoid it. If God is central, than seek Him.
robys
--
http://web.a-znet.com/roby/
He holds the world, yet He holds onto my hand...
anthony
>
> "Holy Laughter" ( aka: "The Laughing
> Revival" or "the Toronto Blessing" ) started
> in 1994 at the Toronto Airport Vineyard
> Fellowship. It is based on the false teachings
> of Rodney Howard-Browne, an apostate from
> South African.
Actually, Howard-Browne started it several years earlier. But, John
Wimber, late founder of the Vineyard, and the pastor of the Toronto
Vineyard Church got into it and brought it to Toronto. Once there, it
went international.
>
> One of the sub-phenomenons is "drunk in
> the spirit". The term being quite literal (one
> of it's proponents once saying that he was
> concerned about being stopped by police
> for DUI because he was "drunk in the spirit" ).
The "churches" involved in this actually provide designated drivers.
>
> The Genevan Rodent supposes they get
> their proof text from Acts 2:13, where some
> non-Believers thought the Christians at
> Pentecost were drunk. Peter, however, went
> to great pains to deny drunkenness ( Acts 2:15 ).
> And we must bear in mind that it was PAGANS
> who misconstrued the behavior of Christians
> as intoxication !
>
> The successor to the Toronto Blessing is
> the Brownsville Revival. It has many of the
> same characteristics, including bizarre
> "spiritual manifestations". None of which is
> new to the wacko fringe of the American
> pentecostal movement: Bro. Rat recalls
> the "Holy Rollers" from 40 years ago (they
> rolled around on church floors in divine
> ecstasy). Before that, snake handling was
> popular.
Both still are popular in certain areas.
>
> Satan will always be glad to encourage
> "Christians" to make damn fools out of
> themselves as a way of discrediting Christ !
>
> "Let all things be done decently and in
> order." ( 1 Corinthians 14:40 KJV )
>
> The DataRat
Anthony
The DataRat
"Actually, Howard-Browne started it several
years earlier. But, John Wimber, late founder
of the Vineyard, and the pastor of the Toronto
Vineyard Church got into it and brought it to
Toronto. Once there, it went international."
Thank you. Figured it existed with Howard-Browne
for at least a while before it went to Toronto.
Wasn't sure for how long, though. Wimber was
the actual popularizer.
"The 'churches' involved in this actually provide
designated drivers."
Hadn't heard THAT. But it emphasizes the point
that "drunk in the spirit" isn't metaphorical. It's a
bunch of apostates acting like alcoholics. Now, who
do we suppose has "Christians" behaving like drunks ?
God ? Or, Satan ?
"Both still are popular in certain areas."
Haven't heard anything about snake handling
for quite a while. ( You can always tell when
it's being practiced, because you'll read
newspaper articles about church members
dying of snake bites ! )
Does everybody know what Anthony and
The DataRat are talking about when we refer
to "snake handling" ? We'll be glad to elaborate
if anyone is familiar with the practice.
DR
Mustard
ro...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message <74kooa$2bc$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
I agree to the point that we should seek God, not an experience..... But
many times, God (the Holy Ghost) will manifest Himself in the worshipper,
giving him/her an experience.... One may be experiencing holy laughter ;
one may shake ; one may pass out in the Spirit ; one may sing. At a camp
meeting, I once saw a young woman singing in tongues (oblivious to her
surroundings) while another young woman was singing the same song in tongues
also! The two women were strangers, and they were at opposite ends of the
huge auditorium....it was definitely a holy, God-given experience! It was
beautiful!
There are many raised brows at these experiences....to the public, they just
seem like crazy antics. On the day of Pentecost, the onlookers thought that
the worshippers were drunk! (Acts 2:13) But these experiences may just be
a way for God to shed the last remnants of a worshipper's humanity (his
pride) so He can work freely in him without any hinderances.
Yes, there are many out there who do just seek the experience, many that
actually fake it.... But when the experience is God-given, there is nothing
else in the world like it!
(And no, it's a not a new thing...read Acts. And ever hear of Azuza street?
It was a great outpouring of the Holy Ghost (like the Day of Pentecost) that
occured in San Francisco around the turn of the century.
Mustard
Wayne Howell
Mustard wrote:
> (And no, it's a not a new thing...read Acts. And ever hear of Azuza street?
> It was a great outpouring of the Holy Ghost (like the Day of Pentecost) that
> occured in San Francisco around the turn of the century.
>
> Mustard
Slight correction.....Azusa Street was (and still is) is Los Angeles.
--
.....Wayne Howell.....
...Port Townsend, WA..
who...@gensearch.com
anthony
>
> Haven't heard anything about snake handling
> for quite a while. ( You can always tell when
> it's being practiced, because you'll read
> newspaper articles about church members
> dying of snake bites ! )
Yeah, it's still going on in the Appalachians and probably always will.
It isn't as wide-spread as it once was, though.
ro...@my-dejanews.com
"Mustard" <Hamsa...@yum.com> wrote:
>
> ro...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message <74kooa$2bc$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> >In article <74kebu$eto2$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>,
> > "helpu" <he...@prodigy.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Seek God not an experience.
> >
> >This statement in a nutshell is the measure of any "experience" that you
> have.
> >If the experience is central, avoid it. If God is central, than seek Him.
> >
> >robys
> >
> >--
> >http://web.a-znet.com/roby/
> >He holds the world, yet He holds onto my hand...
> >
> >-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> >http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
>
> I agree to the point that we should seek God, not an experience..... But
> many times, God (the Holy Ghost) will manifest Himself in the worshipper,
> giving him/her an experience.... One may be experiencing holy laughter ;
> one may shake ; one may pass out in the Spirit ; one may sing. At a camp
> meeting, I once saw a young woman singing in tongues (oblivious to her
> surroundings) while another young woman was singing the same song in tongues
> also! The two women were strangers, and they were at opposite ends of the
> huge auditorium....it was definitely a holy, God-given experience! It was
> beautiful!
I have also experienced and observed such things. I think we are in agreement
here! This could not have occurred if the women involved were "seeking and
experience" apart from seeking God Himself.
> There are many raised brows at these experiences....to the public, they just
> seem like crazy antics. On the day of Pentecost, the onlookers thought that
> the worshippers were drunk! (Acts 2:13) But these experiences may just be
> a way for God to shed the last remnants of a worshipper's humanity (his
> pride) so He can work freely in him without any hinderances.
So true. The only point of my posting was that I have known people (as I am
sure you have as well) who seek only to have an "experience" (don't we all
like to be blessed?), while refusing to submit "self" to God.
> Yes, there are many out there who do just seek the experience, many that
> actually fake it.... But when the experience is God-given, there is nothing
> else in the world like it!
>
> (And no, it's a not a new thing...read Acts. And ever hear of Azuza street?
> It was a great outpouring of the Holy Ghost (like the Day of Pentecost) that
> occured in San Francisco around the turn of the century.
>
> Mustard
Amen!
cdo...@my-dejanews.com
> the Toronto Airport Vineyard Fellowship.
>
> "Holy laughter" is another device of
> Satan, not dissimilar from being
> "Slain in the Spirit", designed to divert
> us from the Word of God. A lot of
> heretical theology accompanies it.
Now tell us what you *really* think. No sugar-coating, please :<)
There is one thing missing from your interesting post -- this movement is
gaining ground among "conventional" Christians. Seems this theology "packs
them in" to the churches.
Some people seem to require "powerful" manifestations of the Holy Spirit.
They are not satisfied with the "quiet voice", but, like the scribes and
Pharasees of old, demand a sign -->> and for some, falling down, laughing,
etc are signs of the spirit.
But they fail to ask themselves -- this is a sign of which spirit.
Best regards,
Charles dowis
Libertarius
It is induced temporary insanity. -- L.
The DataRat
"...this movement is gaining ground among
'conventional' Christians. Seems this theology
'packs them in' to the churches."
It's not like this stuff is taking over Christianity,
but it ~is~ slowly gaining popularity. ( Albeit
more slowly than a year ago. ) In a nation
where "evangelism" is based on the circus
sideshow religiosity of Charles Finney ...father
of modern televangelists with big hairdo's...
it's almost natural this should occur.
The thing to bear in mind is that most churches
aren't Christian, and neither are most people
in most churches. Is it a surprise, then, that some
follow every theological fad which comes along ?
Lying signs and wonders have ~always~ appealed
to pseudo-Christians.
"But they fail to ask themselves -- this is a sign of
which spirit."
Exactly.
"Do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to
see whether they are from God" ( 1 John 4:1 NASB ).
The DataRat
bobe
>
> In article <74me7s$img$1...@news.megsinet.net>,
> "Mustard" <Hamsa...@yum.com> wrote:
> >
> > ro...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message <74kooa$2bc$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> > >In article <74kebu$eto2$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>,
> > > "helpu" <he...@prodigy.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Seek God not an experience.
> > >
> > >This statement in a nutshell is the measure of any "experience" that you
> > have.
> > >If the experience is central, avoid it. If God is central, than seek Him.
> > >
> > >robys
> > >
> > >--
> > >http://web.a-znet.com/roby/
> > >He holds the world, yet He holds onto my hand...
> > >
> > >http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
> >
> > many times, God (the Holy Ghost) will manifest Himself in the worshipper,
> > giving him/her an experience.... One may be experiencing holy laughter ;
> > one may shake ; one may pass out in the Spirit ; one may sing. At a camp
> > meeting, I once saw a young woman singing in tongues (oblivious to her
> > surroundings) while another young woman was singing the same song in tongues
> > also! The two women were strangers, and they were at opposite ends of the
> > huge auditorium....it was definitely a holy, God-given experience! It was
> > beautiful!
>
> I have also experienced and observed such things. I think we are in agreement
> here! This could not have occurred if the women involved were "seeking and
> experience" apart from seeking God Himself.
>
One thing we are blessed with and that is the word of God. When there
is a question among us concerning spiritual matters we can just go to
the source, remembering, the reason He gave us His Word is that like
Him, the Word is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.
You were discussing manifestations of the Holy Ghost. Let's see some
from the Holy Scriptures:
"Fear came upon me, and trembling, which made all my bones to shake."
Job 14:4
"Mine heart within me is broken because of the prophets; all my bones
shake; I am like a drunken man, and like a man whome wine hath overcome,
because of the LORD, and because of the words of his holiness." Jerimiah
23:9
"And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead [men]."
Matthew 28:4
"And so terrible was the sight, [that] Moses said, I exceedingly fear
and quake." Hebrews 12:21
Remember, when we have a question, we just hold it up to the original
pattern. Here we find 'fear', 'trembling', 'shaking', 'slain in the
spirit' and 'drunk in the spirit' when in the presence of Jesus. You
start preaching the word of God and lifting up Jesus and the Holy Ghost
will manifest Himself.
We find "speaking in tongues" as the initial evidence of the Baptism in
the Holy Ghost in the book of Acts.
I pray this is helpful information from the blessed and ever trustful
holy precious word of God.
bobe
--
"Not only does God take you out of Egypt,
He also takes Egypt out of you!"
Mustard
Wayne Howell wrote in message <366EFB5D...@gensearch.com>...
>
>
>Mustard wrote:
>
>> (And no, it's a not a new thing...read Acts. And ever hear of Azuza
street?
>> It was a great outpouring of the Holy Ghost (like the Day of Pentecost)
that
>> occured in San Francisco around the turn of the century.
>>
>> Mustard
>
>
>--
> .....Wayne Howell.....
> ...Port Townsend, WA..
> who...@gensearch.com
>
>
*laughing*
Thankyou for the correction! *smile* I got the state right, though!
Mustard
g...@truth.com
>We find "speaking in tongues" as the initial evidence of the Baptism in
>the Holy Ghost in the book of Acts.
>
I'm so happy to hear that Beavis and Butthead and several of the
satanic rock bands got the "baptism"!!!
Wayne C. Church
JOSEPH DIMAGGIO wrote:
> someone told me that its the new move of God, with a new wine, and a river
> that I need to jump into to get another drink. What in the world is this all
> about ? is this biblical ?
No it is not Biblical. You can listen to the existenial replies all you want.
There is no occurance in the Bible that says "Holy" laughter is a norm, an
occurance that happens in a believer, the fruit of the Spirit working inside of
you, outpouring of joy from the fruit of the Holy Spirit, a form of worship, or
anything of the sort. This is another one of the charismatic movement's
"everyone needs to feel God" ways of thinking. Also, I want you to remember
this. I am not going to call the charismatic movement apostasy, but I will tell
you this. The Bible NEVER states that there will be a new move of God in the
last days, new wine that will be experienced in the end times, or a river you
constantly need to get filled up on. The Bible does say that apostasy will run
rampant and will decieve even the elect. I say this to warn you on what you
believe and study to make sure for yourself what you beleive is true.
Kevin Church
Reply to bread...@uswest.net or kevin...@juno.com
Wayne C. Church
Your Biblical interpretation is weak. You should learn not to take scriptures out of
their proper context.
> Hello robys,
>
>
> One thing we are blessed with and that is the word of God. When there
> is a question among us concerning spiritual matters we can just go to
> the source, remembering, the reason He gave us His Word is that like
> Him, the Word is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.
>
Since we all believe this, let's actually use it.
>
> You were discussing manifestations of the Holy Ghost. Let's see some
> from the Holy Scriptures:
>
> "Fear came upon me, and trembling, which made all my bones to shake."
> Job 14:4
First of all, Job 14:4 doesn't say this. It actually states "Who can bring a clean
thing out of an unclean? No one!"
But, to be fair, I will point out where you are wrong. Fear came upon him. Not God.
We know this can not apply. By the way, when you find out where this verse is
actually located, let me know and I will show you how this can not be true to apply
to the mystical experience of having no control over one's body.
>
> "Mine heart within me is broken because of the prophets; all my bones
> shake; I am like a drunken man, and like a man whome wine hath overcome,
> because of the LORD, and because of the words of his holiness." Jerimiah
> 23:9
>
Again, Jeremiah was humbling himself to the place he should be. Inferior to the
Lord. Was this instance because he was worshiping God and God caused some mystical
experience to overtake him? No. He stated this because of the Lord's holy words
that the Lord gave Jeremiah because his nation were adulterers. This can not be
applied.
>
> "And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead [men]."
> Matthew 28:4
>
These keepers were not believers. They were paralyzed with fear. Imagine if you, one
who does not believe in Christ, were to see an angel of the Lord descend and roll
back the stone and sit on it, I think you may be paralyzed with fear. Remember, this
was not because these men were worshipping God, they shook and became as dead men
from fear.
>
> "And so terrible was the sight, [that] Moses said, I exceedingly fear
> and quake." Hebrews 12:21
>
This was another instance were a man who was not worshipping God became afraid. What
was the reason? Because of what he saw with his sight. Not a mystical experience.
>
> Remember, when we have a question, we just hold it up to the original
> pattern. Here we find 'fear', 'trembling', 'shaking', 'slain in the
> spirit' and 'drunk in the spirit' when in the presence of Jesus. You
> start preaching the word of God and lifting up Jesus and the Holy Ghost
> will manifest Himself.
>
We see misinterpretation, unproper biblical hermenutics, disregard of the context,
and blaming mystical experiences on God that do not originate from God. You stop
preaching the word of God and the unholy spirit will manifest itself.
>
> We find "speaking in tongues" as the initial evidence of the Baptism in
> the Holy Ghost in the book of Acts.
>
This topic is way to involved for me to do to quickly. I will not state my opinion
or the facts that back up my opinion now, but I will say that if your interpretation
of whether or not tounges follow the baptism of the Holy Spirit follow the same way
you tried to interpret the Scriptures above, I will disregard your opinion.
>
> I pray this is helpful information from the blessed and ever trustful
> holy precious word of God.
>
I am glad you hold the Bible as highly as you do. I am very glad to see that. You
must remember when handling the Word of God, you must remember some fundamental
things. Do not take a scripture out of its context in regards to the scripture above
it, the paragraph it is in, the chapter it is in, the book it is in, the historical
context, the literary context, the type of language used, and so on. Following these
lines you will be able to properly interpret scripture, for the most part. Since we
are humans, we will make mistakes, but dumb mistakes can be avoided by following
these fundamental and absolute guidelines.
Please do not take this letter as a diatribe against you personally. Do take it as a
gentle, loving, rebuke from another believer whose passion to see people brought to
Christ, without changing or comprimising the scripture He is recorded in. God bless
you and I encourage to "love your God with all your mind" by learning more about how
to interpret scripture. You can wirte me at kevin...@juno.com. I will not repond
to this account. It is not mine.
Kevin church
Alvin
g...@truth.com wrote in message <3673ed80...@news.netdoor.com>...
>>the Holy Ghost in the book of Acts.
>>
>
dke...@integrityonline4.com
On Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:26:16 -0600, "Mustard" <Hamsa...@yum.com>
wrote:
>
>ro...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message <74kooa$2bc$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>>In article <74kebu$eto2$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>,
>> "helpu" <he...@prodigy.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Seek God not an experience.
>>
>>This statement in a nutshell is the measure of any "experience" that you
>have.
>>If the experience is central, avoid it. If God is central, than seek Him.
>>
>>robys
>>
>>--
>>http://web.a-znet.com/roby/
>>He holds the world, yet He holds onto my hand...
>>
>>-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
>>http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
>
>I agree to the point that we should seek God, not an experience..... But
>many times, God (the Holy Ghost) will manifest Himself in the worshipper,
>giving him/her an experience....
But how do you claim to know if the Holy Ghost is the origin of the
experience and not something else? By adding "stuff" to the Christian
life, you leave a lot of room for counterfeiting by Satan.
Those I have met who have been involved in such "stuff" have, for the
large part, ceased to dig deeper into the Bible to see what God says,
and have changed their emphasis to looking for more and more "stuff,"
as though "stuff" is the object of their Christianity. Serious Bible
study is relegated to the background, but they pursue the "stuff" with
great regularity, looking for "better stuff" all the time.
>One may be experiencing holy laughter ;
>one may shake ; one may pass out in the Spirit ; one may sing.
More "stuff." The Bible never talks about any such "stuff." Instead,
it tells us to "study to shew yourself approved. . ." (2 Timothy
2:15).
>At a camp
>meeting, I once saw a young woman singing in tongues (oblivious to her
>surroundings)
I am fluent in English, used to be fluent in German, and have taken
some Spanish in High School and College. I am familiar with the basic
constructs of language. On several occasions, I have visited
pentecostal churches. During those times I heard lots of babbling,
but not one single bit of real language. This includes quite a few
services at several churches.
What the woman was probably doing was singing babbles.
>while another young woman was singing the same song in tongues
>also!
Great. They could both sing the same tune.
>The two women were strangers, and they were at opposite ends of the
>huge auditorium....it was definitely a holy, God-given experience! It was
>beautiful!
How do you know it was from God? People babble all the time. Mormons
used to do it. Jainists and Hindus do it. Voodoo witch doctors do
it. Some forms of schizophrenia are marked by singing while babbling.
Why should you assume it is from God.
The "experience" didn't happen in the time of Jesus or the Apostles.
Why do you assume this experience is from God?
>
>There are many raised brows at these experiences....to the public, they just
>seem like crazy antics.
Yep. And the Bible tells us
1 Corinthians 14:0 Brethren, do not be children in your thinking; yet
in evil be infants, but in your thinking be mature.
21 In the Law it is written, "BY MEN OF STRANGE TONGUES AND
BY THE LIPS OF STRANGERS I WILL SPEAK TO THIS PEOPLE,
AND EVEN SO THEY WILL NOT LISTEN TO ME," says the Lord.
22 So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to
unbelievers; but prophecy is for a sign, not to unbelievers but to
those who believe.
23 Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in
tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that
you are mad?
24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an ungifted man enters,
he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all;
25 the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his
face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you.
Verse 22 says tongues is for WHAT?
A sign to THE PUBLIC. Not that you are crazy.
Babbling does't accomplish that.
>On the day of Pentecost, the onlookers thought that
>the worshippers were drunk! (Acts 2:13)
They claimed that, but the worshippers didn't babble; they talked in
LANGUAGES THAT WERE RECOGNIZED.
Acts 2: 5 Now there were Jews living in Jerusalem, devout men from
every
nation under heaven.
6 And when this sound occurred, the crowd came together, and were
bewildered because each one of them was hearing them speak in his
own language.
7 They were amazed and astonished, saying, "Why, are not all these
who are speaking Galileans?
8 "And how is it that we each hear them in our own language to
which we were born?
9 "Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and residents of
Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,
10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the districts of Libya around
Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretans and Arabs -- we hear them in our own tongues speaking
of the mighty deeds of God."
12 And they all continued in amazement and great perplexity, saying
to one another, "What does this mean?"
NOTICE verse 8, please.
Now the MOCKERS WERE DIFFERENT.
13 But others were mocking and saying, "They are full of sweet wine."
Don't take verse 13 out of context. Mockers usually lie or
misrepresent things. They NEVER get it right!
>But these experiences may just be
>a way for God to shed the last remnants of a worshipper's humanity (his
>pride) so He can work freely in him without any hinderances.
That is not what the Bible says about tongues. Reread 1 Cor 14:22.
THAT is the only verse in the Bible that says what tongues is for.
And what you are peddling is NOT IT.
>
>Yes, there are many out there who do just seek the experience, many that
>actually fake it.... But when the experience is God-given, there is nothing
>else in the world like it!
>
>(And no, it's a not a new thing...read Acts. And ever hear of Azuza street?
Yes, I have heard of the Azzusa Street Mission and Ms. Osmond. No, it
was NOT like the day of Pentecost; it was a fake. No "And suddenly
there came from heaven a noise like a violent rushing
wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing
themselves, and they rested on each one of them."
(that was acts 2:2-3). At Azzusa street it was merely old Agnes
babbling. No languages. No 15 different nationalities of folks
hearing God being praised "in the language by which we were born."
Just babbling.
>It was a great outpouring of the Holy Ghost (like the Day of Pentecost) that
>occured in San Francisco around the turn of the century.
In Christ Jesus,
dennis (a non-babbler)
pastor...@my-dejanews.com
dke...@integrityonline4.com wrote:
> Mustard? Why not use your real name and be honest about it?
>
> On Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:26:16 -0600, "Mustard" <Hamsa...@yum.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >ro...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message <74kooa$2bc$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> >>In article <74kebu$eto2$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>,
> >> "helpu" <he...@prodigy.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Seek God not an experience.
> >>
> >>This statement in a nutshell is the measure of any "experience" that you
> >have.
> >>If the experience is central, avoid it. If God is central, than seek Him.
> >>
> >>robys
> >>
> >>--
> >>http://web.a-znet.com/roby/
> >>He holds the world, yet He holds onto my hand...
> >>
> >>-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> >>http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
> >
> >I agree to the point that we should seek God, not an experience..... But
> >many times, God (the Holy Ghost) will manifest Himself in the worshipper,
> >giving him/her an experience....
>
> But how do you claim to know if the Holy Ghost is the origin of the
> experience and not something else? By adding "stuff" to the Christian
> life, you leave a lot of room for counterfeiting by Satan.
But WHERE THER IS A COUNTERFIT THERE MUST BE A REAL OR COUNTERFITING ISN'T
POSSIBLE. "stuff" is NOT WRONG as long as Jesus is the central focus.
>
> Those I have met who have been involved in such "stuff" have, for the
> large part, ceased to dig deeper into the Bible to see what God says,
> and have changed their emphasis to looking for more and more "stuff,"
> as though "stuff" is the object of their Christianity. Serious Bible
> study is relegated to the background, but they pursue the "stuff" with
> great regularity, looking for "better stuff" all the time.
All true believers seek God, not "Stuff", no dissagreements from me, but lets
not just ignore it in the name of balance.
>
> >One may be experiencing holy laughter ;
> >one may shake ; one may pass out in the Spirit ; one may sing.
>
> More "stuff." The Bible never talks about any such "stuff." Instead,
> it tells us to "study to shew yourself approved. . ." (2 Timothy
> 2:15).
SO? There's alot of stuff the church does (ie. lets all sit here and let the
pastor do all the work, let leadership do the witnessing, let somebody
else...)
>
> >At a camp
> >meeting, I once saw a young woman singing in tongues (oblivious to her
> >surroundings)
>
> I am fluent in English, used to be fluent in German, and have taken
> some Spanish in High School and College. I am familiar with the basic
> constructs of language. On several occasions, I have visited
> pentecostal churches. During those times I heard lots of babbling,
> but not one single bit of real language. This includes quite a few
> services at several churches.
1 Corinthians 13:...You ever been taught the tongue of an angel?
>
> What the woman was probably doing was singing babbles.
>
PROBABLY...means you are not sure. Better figure it out before you start
spreading your "stuff"
> >while another young woman was singing the same song in tongues
> >also!
>
> Great. They could both sing the same tune.
>
What a joke.
<SNIP>
> In Christ Jesus,
> dennis (a non-babbler)
>
--
Mike Crain-email at
(text only) pastor2bm...@juno.com
(other) micrai...@erinet.com
ro...@my-dejanews.com
>
dennis,
This is an open forum, and there are many who for whatever reason choose to
keep their identity private. Your name "dennis" really does not reveal your
true identity either. That is your right. However, the above comment was
unnecessary.