A little rationalization along the way...
Michael Christ
Jesus is Lord?? Not in them He isn't.
And what the hell is an 'occasional sinner', what kind of being is that??
Obviously, that being is not as bad as a **more than** occasional sinner.
You see how their theology falls apart when you go down that dead end street
only a little way.
They only seek to rationalize their sin with scripture, scripture seen only
through the faithlessness of their heart and minds.
Michael Christ
gabriel
<Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
: ...and you can be an 'occasional' sinner as often as the spirit leads.
The spirit doesn't lead us to sin, Michael.
:
: Jesus is Lord?? Not in them He isn't.
So you're claiming a person who is saved now lives perfectly
sinless the rest of his or her life? This goes against what the
Bible says in several places.
1 John 1:8-2:1 KJV
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and
the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to
forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar,
and his word is not in us.
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that
ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the
Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
When we check your claim with your own testimony, it becomes
clear that even you have sinned - more than once, in the past few
months alone:
On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 10:58:22 GMT, "Michael Christ"
<Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
: Heard this before but maybe you haven't...
:
: ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
:
: A man and his ever-nagging wife went on vacation to Jerusalem. While they
: were there, the wife passed away.
:
: The undertaker told the husband, "You can have her shipped home for $5000,
: or you can bury her here, in the Holy Land, for $150."
:
: The man thought about it and told him he would just have her shipped home.
:
: The undertaker asked, "Why would you spend $5000 to ship your wife home,
: when it would be wonderful to be buried here and you would spend only $150?"
:
: The man replied, "A long time ago a man died here, was buried here, and
: three days later he rose from the dead. I just can't take that chance."
:
:
:
: :-).
:
: Michael Christ
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 04:03:40 GMT, "Michael Christ"
<Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
: [..]
: Holiness, righteousness and purity, without which a man will never be with
: God...has it registered yet? Or, are you just going to ignore it like an
: idiot while glorying in your awesome theological correctness?
On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 11:16:00 GMT, "Michael Christ"
<Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
:
: You must think the Lord is a complete blind dickhead.
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 02:26:35 GMT, "Michael Christ"
<Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
: ..
: You walk as though God is a blind complete dickhead.
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 10:40:03 GMT, "Michael Christ"
<Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
: Those who are called need the Bible, but those who are chosen don't need it
: anymore because they walk in the Spirit with the Lord.
:
: I remember when the Lord began my chastening, He took my Bible away from me,
: twice in fact.
:
: I had my KJV, the version He gave me as the best there was, and for an
: unexplained reason at the time, it just vanished.
:
: About 3 months later I was mucking around in the garage and lo and behold it
: turned up on top of a clothes cabinet.
:
: Anyway, it went missing again almost straight away, and to this day I never
: knew what happened to it.
So yes, Michael - you have sinned, contradicting the very false
doctrine you try to teach.
:
: And what the hell is an 'occasional sinner', what kind of being is that??
Depends. Is this person truly saved? According to 1 John 1:8-2:1,
they will confess it and God is just to forgive.
If this person is not saved (i.e., the truth is not in them),
said person will probably ~deny~ that they've sinned, making God
a liar, proving His Word is not in him or her, proving to those
around him or her that they are not saved. And denying that he or
she has sinned yet again, it's clear they'll never repent from
it.
:
: Obviously, that being is not as bad as a **more than** occasional sinner.
A slave to sin. One that denies sinning and clearly won't turn
from it - for example because perhaps he believes he's not
sinning at all.
:
: You see how their theology falls apart when you go down that dead end street
Fred Thomas
"gabriel" <gabriel...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:oi1rh59jng2bvfrc1...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 07 Dec 2009 22:27:37 GMT, "Michael Christ"
> <Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
>
> : ...and you can be an 'occasional' sinner as often as the spirit leads.
>
> The spirit doesn't lead us to sin, Michael.
>
> :
> : Jesus is Lord?? Not in them He isn't.
>
> So you're claiming a person who is saved now lives perfectly
> sinless the rest of his or her life? This goes against what the
> Bible says in several places.
>
>
Hmmmmmmmmm.........................seems you looked over this. Just one of the
countless contradictions in the myth book.
1 John 3:9 (KJV): "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed
remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not.
1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not.
Michael Christ
"Fred Thomas" <fr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:hfk4rv$6vh$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Those verses are not acceptable to those who want to hold on to the things
of this world and keep their sin.
They have no use for the habitual 'occasional' sinner.
Michael Christ
Michael Christ
> : ...and you can be an 'occasional' sinner as often as the spirit leads.
Gabriel wrote:
> The spirit doesn't lead us to sin, Michael.
That's right, Gabriel, the Spirit of God does not.
So whose spirit are you led by?
Michael Christ wrote:
> : Jesus is Lord?? Not in them He isn't.
Indeed.
Gabriel wrote:
> So you're claiming a person who is saved now lives perfectly
> sinless the rest of his or her life? This goes against what the
> Bible says in several places.
No, it goes against your experience, that's all.
You are trying to rationalize your sin instead of repenting of all you are
and surrendering in faith your all to the Lord Jesus Christ, which is only a
reasonable thing to do.
Like I said...
And what the hell is an 'occasional sinner', what kind of being is that??
Obviously, that being is not as bad as a **more than** occasional sinner.
You see how their theology falls apart when you go down that dead end street
only a little way.
They only seek to rationalize their sin with scripture, scripture seen only
through the faithlessness of their heart and minds.
Stop trying to judge me, it is not the job of 'occasional' sinners.
There are none so blind as sinners who point the finger of condemnation at
their neighbour. Matthew 7:1-5, read it, believe it.
Michael Christ
Fred Thomas
"Michael Christ" <Jesus...@Father.com> wrote in message
news:R3hTm.60923$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
not acceptable..........hmmmmmmmmm...........I wonder why god either A) wrote
that it's self B) inspired his medium to write it.........or is it just some of
the evidence that this book so often quoted is............shocking I
know..................FICTION?
>
>
> Michael Christ
>
gabriel
wrote:
:
: "gabriel" <gabriel...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
: news:oi1rh59jng2bvfrc1...@4ax.com...
: > On Mon, 07 Dec 2009 22:27:37 GMT, "Michael Christ"
: > <Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
: >
: > : ...and you can be an 'occasional' sinner as often as the spirit leads.
: >
: > The spirit doesn't lead us to sin, Michael.
: >
: > :
: > : Jesus is Lord?? Not in them He isn't.
: >
: > So you're claiming a person who is saved now lives perfectly
: > sinless the rest of his or her life? This goes against what the
: > Bible says in several places.
: >
: >
:
: Hmmmmmmmmm.........................seems you looked over this. Just one of the
: countless contradictions in the myth book.
:
: 1 John 3:9 (KJV): "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed
: remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
No - the word "commit" sin is of a form that means to live a
lifestyle of sin - not to sin a single time, which is often
falsely read into it.
I addressed this, specifically even the verses you quote, looking
at the actual Greek words, in another post. Here it is pasted:
The apostle John gives this warning to the church:
1 John 1:8-2:1 KJV
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and
the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to
forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar,
and his word is not in us.
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that
ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the
Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
It cannot be clearer than that. If we claim we are now perfectly
sinless we
[1] Make Christ a liar
[2] His Word is not in us
Some, however, might teach that we are to remain perfectly
sinless after being saved; That to commit even one sin is to have
never been saved at all. That we need to remain sinless to
maintain, or even earn salvation. The above verses contradict
that claim quite clearly.
2 Peter 1:20 KJV Knowing this first, that no prophecy of
the scripture is of any private interpretation.
But then those people quote 1 John 3:7-10 (shown below) and give
it a private interpretation without wondering why their
interpretation contradicts 1 John 1:8-2:1.
And just as importantly, they do not check the tense of the Greek
words that were translated into the English words they are
reading. They only pay attention to the English translation,
ignoring that it was originally written in Greek. When we look at
the actual Greek words, we see in and of itself it's not saying
what those who use it to promote a false gospel of sinless
perfection teach:
1 John 3:7 KJV Little children, let no man deceive you: he
that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
"Doeth" is translated from the Greek word poieo (poy-eh'-o),
which is a ~prolonged form~ of the word, which means over a
prolonged period of time to live in the manner described, or more
succinctly to live a lifestyle of the word that follows (in this
case, "doeth" righteousness) - a lifestyle of righteousness. It
does not mean ".. does one act of righteousness .." And the same
exact Greek word is spoken by God when referring to committing
~sin~ below - meaning a lifestyle of sin, not one act of sin:
1 John 3:8 KJV He that committeth sin is of the devil; for
the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of
God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
"Comitteth" is translated from the exact same Greek word poieo
(poy-eh'-o) above, that was used to say "DOETH righteousness." So
again, He that "lives a lifestyle of" sin is of the devil.
1 John 3:9 KJV Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;
for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is
born of God.
Here, does not "commit" sin - exact same Greek word poieo
(poy-eh'-o), exact same form yet again: prolonged form of the
word. So it should more accurately have been translated into
English "Whosoever is born of God does not live a lifestyle of
sin".
And when it says "he cannot ~sin~" - the Greek word used here for
sin is different than the word sin used in "commit sin" - it's
now the same Greek word used in the following verse as "sinneth"
over and over:
1 John 3:8 KJV He that committeth sin is of the devil;
for the devil SINNETH from the beginning. For this
purpose the Son of God was manifested, that
he might destroy the works of the devil.
Again, a plural sense of living in sin since the beginning. It
doesn't say "the devil SINNED ONCE from the beginning." It
clearly is talking about a lifestyle of sin.
1 John 3:10 KJV In this the children of God are manifest,
and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness
is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
Whosoever "doeth" not righteousness - exact same Greek
word: prolonged form: poieo (poy-eh'-o). So "whosoever does not
live a lifestyle of righteousness is not of God."
And consider: do you honestly think you've remained perfectly
sinless since being saved? That you have not sinned ~even once~?
You've remained perfect in thought, word, and deed? You've not
only never once done that which God commands us not to do, but
you've done everything God commands us ~to~ do? To not do what He
wants us to do is also sin. You've never once been angry? Never
been prideful?
You've never disobeyed God's command to love Him with all your
heart, all your mind, and all your soul?
You've never once disobeyed God's command to love your neighbor
as yourself?
To avoid this truth, some try to twist the definition of sin to
now be ~only~ breaking the original Ten Commandments.
The apostle John gives this warning to the church in the very
same letter, pointing out that anyone that claims they are
without sin deceive themselves and the truth is not in them:
1 John 1:8-2:1 KJV
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the
truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive
us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and
his word is not in us.
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye
sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father,
Jesus Christ the righteous:
And why are every one of God's children chastised if they live
perfectly sinless lives?
Hebrews 12:5-11 KJV
5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto
you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of
the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every
son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons;
for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are
partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected
us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in
subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own
pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of
his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but
grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit
of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
The truth is, we are to avoid sin at all costs (even more than
just the Ten Commandments) - we loathe sin - if we love God and
wish to abide in His love, we will do whatever it takes to avoid
sin and obey Him in thought, word and deed. We should pray to God
for strength as well.
But if we should happen to sin, we shouldn't hide from it and act
like it's not sin anymore simply because we have faith in the
Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 6:14-15 KJV
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not
under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law,
but under grace? God forbid.
No, we must still confess it to restore fellowship, pray to God
for strength to avoid it in the future, and take whatever steps
we can to avoid it as well.
We might stumble on occasion, and we loathe sin, but that's a far
cry from what we used to be, where sin had dominion over us, not
to mention that we didn't care in the least.
May God Bless the telling and the hearing of His Word.
:
:
: 1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not.
Michael Christ
Well no it is not fiction.
Its fact not yet revealed...to you.
You should look at the alternative and see that there is nothing for you and
nowhere for you to go. Better to have the hope that not. And, you can't
afford to be wrong.
Michael Christ
Michael Christ
Michael Christ
Michael Christ wrote:
>1 John 3:9 (KJV): "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his
>seed
>remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
Gabriel wrote:
> No - the word "commit" sin is of a form that means to live a
> lifestyle of sin - not to sin a single time, which is often
> falsely read into it.
You and Randy love to play this dead man's card so have it that way if you
like...
"Whosoever is born of God does not live a lifestyle of sin; for his seed
remainth in him: and he cannot live a lifestyle of sin, because he is born
of God."
There is no loop hole for 'occasional' sin theology.
If you sin you live the lifestyle buddy whatever way you want to paint it,
and that goes for all that other bible verses you two love to camel swallow.
Gabriel wrote:
>You've never once been angry? Never been prideful?
There is righteous anger for the sinner that just will not turn away from
his self-righteousness that is leading him to his death (that's caring),
there is pride in having a righteous Father.
You see, you see darkly, I speak of the light.
Gabriel wrote:
> You've never disobeyed God's command to love Him with all your
> heart, all your mind, and all your soul?
I love God with all, there are no degrees of obedience/disobedience in that.
You are either obedient or you are disobedient, no lukewarm hidey holes.
Gabriel wrote:
> You've never once disobeyed God's command to love your neighbor
> as yourself?
It is not about disobeying or obeying. It is about **what you are**. You
are either born again of His Spirit or you are not. And if born again, you
are of His seed/love/faith/hope/fruits of the Spirit. Dirty and clean water
do not come out of the same well, good tree good fruit, not good tree good
and bad fruit.
You know that by **what you are**, meaning by what God has made you, that in
all you do you do for the right motive. It is clearly before the born again
man, he sees himself doing all sorts of things, and there right in front of
Him he sees the glory of the Lord in His motives. By the way, freedom in
the Spirit is not bound by your dickhead sinner perceptions of what is right
and what is wrong.
Lets take a look you for instance, you are a self-righteous finger pointing
idiot, but it does not stop me from showing the path in which you should
walk to be in the kingdom of God. You want 'ear ticklers', then stay in the
Baptist Church.
If I didn't care about your sorry arse you would have been dumped a long
time ago because all you do is try to condemn me, and the reason you will
never succeed is because love never fails.
If you boil down everything that I have ever said to you, it will come down
to making Jesus ***truly*** the Lord of your life...***your good***.
Gabriel wrote:
> But if we should happen to sin, we shouldn't hide from it and act
> like it's not sin anymore simply because we have faith in the
> Lord Jesus Christ.
Why did Jesus say if you so much as look at a woman in that way, you have
committed (you live the lifestyle buddy) adultery with her??
Why? Why??
"If we should happen to sin???!!!"
What kind of bullshit is that??!!
"We shouldn't hide from it???!!!"
YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE OFFERED UP YOUR LIFE AND YOU WANT TO TOKEN GESTURE
IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stop wasting your life playing religion!!!
It didn't work with the Pharisees and it won't work with you.
Michael Christ
Fred Thomas
"Michael Christ" <Jesus...@Father.com> wrote in message
It is very much fiction.
> Its fact not yet revealed...to you.
>
It is a fact it is fiction.
> You should look at the alternative and see that there is nothing for you and
> nowhere for you to go. Better to have the hope that not.
So tell me Mikey, you have this belief, this hope that you will go to heaven
upon death. What are you going to be doing? Oh............use your myth book, no
speculation, no guessing. What does your god as per what is written in "it's
word" say you will be doing in heaven?
> And, you can't afford to be wrong.
>
According to your mythology, depending on which flavor you have swallowed, you
have quite a bit to be worried about. You have a fifty fifty chance of going to
hell to live out eternity in ever burning fire. There is also the little problem
that being there are over 28000 verities of the Christian myth, only one of them
will be correct that nasty little thing that keeps going around, the Pope
announced there is only one true church. Matt 16:18 says Jesus built his church,
not yours.................damn talk about playing the lottery! Maybe it's not
even the Christian myth that's correct, maybe
it's...............Islum.........or Zorostorisum................or any one of
the thousanands of religions man has made.
>
>
> Michael Christ
>
>
>
> Michael Christ
Fred Thomas
> On Mon, 7 Dec 2009 18:58:51 -0500, "Fred Thomas" <fr...@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
> :
> : "gabriel" <gabriel...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> : news:oi1rh59jng2bvfrc1...@4ax.com...
> : > On Mon, 07 Dec 2009 22:27:37 GMT, "Michael Christ"
> : > <Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
> : >
> : > : ...and you can be an 'occasional' sinner as often as the spirit leads.
> : >
> : > The spirit doesn't lead us to sin, Michael.
> : >
> : > :
> : > : Jesus is Lord?? Not in them He isn't.
> : >
> : > So you're claiming a person who is saved now lives perfectly
> : > sinless the rest of his or her life? This goes against what the
> : > Bible says in several places.
> : >
> : >
> :
> : Hmmmmmmmmm.........................seems you looked over this. Just one of
> the
> : countless contradictions in the myth book.
> :
> : 1 John 3:9 (KJV): "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his
> seed
> : remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
>
> No - the word "commit" sin is of a form that means to live a
> lifestyle of sin - not to sin a single time, which is often
> falsely read into it.
>
> I addressed this, specifically even the verses you quote, looking
> at the actual Greek words, in another post. Here it is pasted:
>
Show the word you say means "living a life style".
Thommadura
> On Mon, 7 Dec 2009 18:58:51 -0500, "Fred Thomas" <fr...@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
> :
> : "gabriel" <gabriel...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> : news:oi1rh59jng2bvfrc1...@4ax.com...
> : > On Mon, 07 Dec 2009 22:27:37 GMT, "Michael Christ"
> : > <Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
> : >
> : > : ...and you can be an 'occasional' sinner as often as the spirit leads.
> : >
> : > The spirit doesn't lead us to sin, Michael.
> : >
> : > :
> : > : Jesus is Lord?? Not in them He isn't.
> : >
> : > So you're claiming a person who is saved now lives perfectly
> : > sinless the rest of his or her life? This goes against what the
> : > Bible says in several places.
> : >
> : >
> :
> : Hmmmmmmmmm.........................seems you looked over this. Just one of the
> : countless contradictions in the myth book.
> :
> : 1 John 3:9 (KJV): "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed
> : remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
>
> No - the word "commit" sin is of a form that means to live a
> lifestyle of sin - not to sin a single time, which is often
> falsely read into it.
The word "sin" is a meaningless term in reality
Since a sin is defined as an offense against a god - and since NO gods
are proven to exist - sin also is not proven to exist
Since the bible is a compilation of religous belief as creatd by HUMANS-
and it open to interpretation - and theist often disagree in the
meaning of common words - it proves nothing.
AS we have noted in the past - Bible quoters ignore that it is possible
to contradict their quotes - with OTHER quotes from the bible itself -
the quote of JOHN above is a great example. YOU can quote ALL you want
about sin - but it is meaningless since it is contradicted by JOHN above.
Michael Christ
To be frank and not for reason of meaning to offend, my life is immeasurably
better than yours because of it, it has purpose. You have no purpose.
You eat, shit and die. Goodbye and end of story, an abyss of 'no point' and
nothingness, now and later.
And it is not about heaven, it is about knowing Him and the glory of His
nature.
We are able to converse, reason, relate, debate, discuss, chew the fat, chat
and rationalise between each other and so on. I live a normal life and pay
my bills and have enough priviledge to be more than thankful. I have a good
job and don't break into people's house bringing evil on my neighbour and so
on. My point, only this, by your own measure we have sound enough minds.
Well I say that God is real, real enough to be walking with Him for 25
years.
And I would drop all things you find to be real rather than ever let go of
Him.
When you argue with me about His existence, you may as well be telling me
that I haven't got hands to type with.
Michael Christ
Fred Thomas
"Michael Christ" <Jesus...@Father.com> wrote in message
> Hope is better than hopelessness, Fred, any old day in the week.
>
> To be frank and not for reason of meaning to offend, my life is immeasurably
> better than yours because of it, it has purpose. You have no purpose.
>
> You eat, shit and die. Goodbye and end of story, an abyss of 'no point' and
> nothingness, now and later.
>
>
Yea baby! The CHRISTIAN WAY! All this says to me is that you see the logic and
you can not dispute it, sore loser.
>
> And it is not about heaven, it is about knowing Him and the glory of His
> nature.
>
So now your not sure if there's a heaven, or it does not matter? If there is no
heaven, where is this god? The point is what's the point, you just contradicted
your self.
> We are able to converse, reason, relate, debate, discuss, chew the fat, chat
> and rationalise between each other and so on. I live a normal life and pay my
> bills and have enough priviledge to be more than thankful. I have a good job
> and don't break into people's house bringing evil on my neighbour and so on.
> My point, only this, by your own measure we have sound enough minds. Well I
> say that God is real, real enough to be walking with Him for 25 years.
>
You can get over the insecurity your are obviously feeling.
> And I would drop all things you find to be real rather than ever let go of
> Him.
>
Sad.
> When you argue with me about His existence, you may as well be telling me that
> I haven't got hands to type with.
>
Maybe you don't. I would not know, there are all types of software now that you
would never have to even own a key board.
>
>
> Michael Christ
>
>
>
>
>
Thommadura
> Hope is better than hopelessness, Fred, any old day in the week.
Reality is better than fantasy too
Fred Thomas
"Michael Christ" <Jesus...@Father.com> wrote in message
> Hope is better than hopelessness, Fred, any old day in the week.
>
>
your not hoping for that, so when you die what happens? It's one thing to hope
for a good job, your kids turn out well, your next boss is not an asshole, but
to hope that a known myth is true????????? That's just stupid.
Michael Christ
You offer nothing.
Because you have nothing.
Empty.
Pointless.
Dead...already.
Michael Christ
"Fred Thomas" <fr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:hfmie9$4vv$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Michael Christ
"Thommadura" <tomm...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:4b1ed27e$0$31263$607e...@cv.net...
Michael Christ
>> Hope is better than hopelessness, Fred, any old day in the week.
Fred wrote:
> Hope in what Mikey? What are you hoping for? You say heaven does not
> matter,
That is not what I said.
You write your own Fredbible.
You eat, shit and die. Goodbye and end of story, an abyss of 'no point' and
nothingness, now and later.
Dead man walking, buddy.
Rock...brick...duck...you.
You're the myth believer, but more than that you are just a plain fool.
Michael Christ
fred thomas
> Michael Christ wrote:
>>> Hope is better than hopelessness, Fred, any old day in the week.
>
>
> Fred wrote:
>> Hope in what Mikey? What are you hoping for? You say heaven does not
>> matter,
>
> That is not what I said.
>
Well.......let me refresh your memory.........
You (the hope part )
> Hope is better than hopelessness, Fred, any old day in the week.
>
> To be frank and not for reason of meaning to offend, my life is immeasurably
better than yours because of it, it has purpose. You have no purpose.
>
Me
And what is your purpose?
I love this one.....you
> You eat, shit and die. Goodbye and end of story, an abyss of 'no point' and
nothingness, now and later.
>
>
me
Yea baby! The CHRISTIAN WAY! All this says to me is that you see the logic and
you can not dispute it, sore loser.
you again ( the heaven part )
> And it is not about heaven, it is about knowing Him and the glory of His nature.
>
me
So now your not sure if there's a heaven, or it does not matter? If there is no
heaven, where is this god? The point is what's the point, you just contradicted
your self.
you
> We are able to converse, reason, relate, debate, discuss, chew the fat, chat
and rationalise between each other and so on. I live a normal life and pay my
bills and have enough priviledge to be more than thankful. I have a good job
and don't break into people's house bringing evil on my neighbour and so on. My
point, only this, by your own measure we have sound enough minds. Well I say
that God is real, real enough to be walking with Him for 25 years.
>
me
You can get over the insecurity your are obviously feeling.
you
> And I would drop all things you find to be real rather than ever let go of Him.
>
me
Sad.
you
> When you argue with me about His existence, you may as well be telling me
that I haven't got hands to type with.
>
me
Maybe you don't. I would not know, there are all types of software now that you
would never have to even own a key board.
> You write your own Fredbible.
Michael Christ
Free said:
>You say heaven does not matter,
...does not say that...
Michael Christ wrote:
>And it is not about heaven, it is about knowing Him and the glory of His
>nature.
Look, I shared with you a little, you crapped on it. Great, your are very
clever, you win, off you go and enjoy your winnings.
As far as being converted to your religion, no, it won't ever be happening.
To me an infant knows better than you.
Rock...brick...duck...you.
Michael Christ
Fred Thomas
"Michael Christ" <Jesus...@Father.com> wrote in message
> This...
>
> Free said:
>>You say heaven does not matter,
>
> ...does not say that...
>
> Michael Christ wrote:
>>And it is not about heaven, it is about knowing Him and the glory of His
>>nature.
>
>
> Look, I shared with you a little, you crapped on it. Great, your are very
> clever, you win, off you go and enjoy your winnings.
>
> As far as being converted to your religion,
Sorry dude, I do not have a religion.
> no, it won't ever be happening. To me an infant knows better than you.
>
I always find it amusing.................
> Rock...brick...duck...you.
>
Again, you have it all wrong.
>
>
>
> Michael Christ
>
gabriel
wrote:
You deleted the answer you were seeking. Here it is again. Please
read it to find the answer to your question.
On Mon, 7 Dec 2009 18:58:51 -0500, "Fred Thomas" <fr...@aol.com>
wrote:
:
: "gabriel" <gabriel...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
: news:oi1rh59jng2bvfrc1...@4ax.com...
: > On Mon, 07 Dec 2009 22:27:37 GMT, "Michael Christ"
: > <Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
: >
: > : ...and you can be an 'occasional' sinner as often as the spirit leads.
: >
: > The spirit doesn't lead us to sin, Michael.
: >
: > :
: > : Jesus is Lord?? Not in them He isn't.
: >
: > So you're claiming a person who is saved now lives perfectly
: > sinless the rest of his or her life? This goes against what the
: > Bible says in several places.
: >
: >
:
: Hmmmmmmmmm.........................seems you looked over this. Just one of the
: countless contradictions in the myth book.
:
: 1 John 3:9 (KJV): "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed
: remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
No - the word "commit" sin is of a form that means to live a
lifestyle of sin - not to sin a single time, which is often
falsely read into it.
I addressed this, specifically even the verses you quote, looking
at the actual Greek words, in another post. Here it is pasted:
The apostle John gives this warning to the church:
1 John 3:9 KJV Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;
for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is
born of God.
Here, does not "commit" sin - exact same Greek word poieo
Michael Christ
>> > : 1 John 3:9 (KJV): "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for
>> > his
>> > seed
>> > : remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
Gabriel wrote:
>> > No - the word "commit" sin is of a form that means to live a
>> > lifestyle of sin - not to sin a single time, which is often
>> > falsely read into it.
Commit means commit!
Commit does not mean 'a form that means to live a lifestyle of sin'.
If you sin you live the lifestyle no matter what way you want to paint.
You are twisting the bible to suit your condition.
The Lord is not impressed with self-righteous 'occasional' (whatever the
hell that means) sinners.
I John 1 is for the unrepentant. Try repenting of all you are.
You are a fraud Gabriel, and are yet to meet the God in whom all things are
possible. All you see is the darkness of your sin-based bible
interpretations.
There is more than 'occasional sin acceptable theology', there is free and
free indeed.
Michael Christ
Fred Thomas
4160. poie�
to make, do
Original Word: ?????
Transliteration: poie�
Phonetic Spelling: (poy-eh'-o)
Short Definition: make
to make or do
Apparently a prolonged form of an obsolete primary; to make or do (in a very
wide application, more or less direct) -- abide, + agree, appoint, X avenge, +
band together, be, bear, + bewray, bring (forth), cast out, cause, commit, +
content, continue, deal, + without any delay, (would) do(-ing), execute,
exercise, fulfil, gain, give, have, hold, X journeying, keep, + lay wait, +
lighten the ship, make, X mean, + none of these things move me, observe, ordain,
perform, provide, + have purged, purpose, put, + raising up, X secure, shew, X
shoot out, spend, take, tarry, + transgress the law, work, yield.
The fact is the word simply means to do an act, do something. In both of your
"commentaries" you failed to show what you are trying to imply. The fact is the
word in the context of the passages imply exactly how the KJV lays it out.
Wild Bill
>
> "Michael Christ" <Jesus...@Father.com> wrote in message
> news:JUUTm.61366$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>> This...
>>
>> Free said:
>>>You say heaven does not matter,
>>
>> ...does not say that...
>>
>> Michael Christ wrote:
>>>And it is not about heaven, it is about knowing Him and the glory of His
>>>nature.
>>
>>
>> Look, I shared with you a little, you crapped on it. Great, your are
>> very clever, you win, off you go and enjoy your winnings.
>>
> More of that positive Christian attitude! So is this what your god wants
> of you?
>
>
>> As far as being converted to your religion,
>
> Sorry dude, I do not have a religion.
>
>> no, it won't ever be happening. To me an infant knows better than you.
>>
>
> I always find it amusing.................
Yeah, Fred so do I! Rather interesting to note that gabriel cut his losses
early on this thread while Michael doggedly continued to bluff his way.
Those two don't like each other one bit. Michael even called gabriel a
fraud...pot, kettle, black! Well, we could assemble ten Christians together
and you'd get ten different interpretations of any given verse. And of
course, their own particular sect or denomination is the only one that is
correct!
ThomM
> "Fred Thomas" <f...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:hfpisq$u64$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Michael Christ" <JesusisL...@Father.com> wrote in message
OF course - when you add up all the PROOF they give you - (none) -
they are all barking up the wrong tree
Michael Christ
"Wild Bill" <bils...@daytonwa.net> wrote in message
news:hgh8g7$orj$1...@news.parasun.com...
>
> "Fred Thomas" <fr...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:hfpisq$u64$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> "Michael Christ" <Jesus...@Father.com> wrote in message
>> news:JUUTm.61366$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>> This...
>>>
>>> Free said:
>>>>You say heaven does not matter,
>>>
>>> ...does not say that...
>>>
>>> Michael Christ wrote:
>>>>And it is not about heaven, it is about knowing Him and the glory of His
>>>>nature.
>>>
>>>
>>> Look, I shared with you a little, you crapped on it. Great, your are
>>> very clever, you win, off you go and enjoy your winnings.
>>>
>> More of that positive Christian attitude! So is this what your god wants
>> of you?
>>
>>
>>> As far as being converted to your religion,
>>
>> Sorry dude, I do not have a religion.
>>
>>> no, it won't ever be happening. To me an infant knows better than you.
>>>
>>
>> I always find it amusing.................
Bill wrote:
> Yeah, Fred so do I! Rather interesting to note that gabriel cut his losses
> early on this thread while Michael doggedly continued to bluff his way.
> Those two don't like each other one bit. Michael even called gabriel a
> fraud...pot, kettle, black! Well, we could assemble ten Christians
> together and you'd get ten different interpretations of any given verse.
If you got 2 geniune Christians you wouldn't.
Don't worry though, that day is coming.
I haven't found a genuine Christian in 25 years. Of those I have got to
know, everyone I have ever meet who claimed to be Christian has been a liar
and deluded.
I understand a hundred times more than any atheist what pretenders these
modern day christians are.
Michael Christ
Fred Thomas
And who said god is not the author of confusion?;)
Thommadura
Since there is NO WAY to establish what a "genuine christian" is - since
you have NO proof of anything you say - then there are NO genuine
christians.
gabriel
wrote:
To be done over and over again, not just one time. In other
words, a lifestyle of said activity.
1 John 3:7 KJV Little children, let no man deceive you: he
that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
"Doeth" is translated from the Greek word poieo (poy-eh'-o),
which is a ~prolonged form~ of the word, which means over a
prolonged period of time to live in the manner described, or more
succinctly to live a lifestyle of the word that follows (in this
case, "doeth" righteousness) - a lifestyle of righteousness. It
does not mean ".. does one act of righteousness .." And the same
exact Greek word is spoken by God when referring to committing
~sin~ below - meaning a lifestyle of sin, not one act of sin:
You're free to disagree, but the tense of the word, and the same
tense being used when talking about doing righteousness, makes it
clear it's not talking about a one time occurrence, but doing it
many times, whether they were speaking of acts of righteousness,
or acts of sinning.
gabriel
<jesus...@father.com> wrote:
> Fred wrote:
> >> > : 1 John 3:9 (KJV): "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for
> >> > his
> >> > seed
> >> > : remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
>
> Gabriel wrote:
> >> > No - the word "commit" sin is of a form that means to live a
> >> > lifestyle of sin - not to sin a single time, which is often
> >> > falsely read into it.
>
> Commit means commit!
Yes, but commit was not the original word written, Michael. The
original word in the Bible was Greek word poieo, and was poorly
translated into the English word commit, making it seem
potentially singular when the original Greek text shows it was
clearly in the pluralistic sense.
1 John 3:7 KJV Little children, let no man deceive you: he
that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
"Doeth" is translated from the Greek word poieo (poy-eh'-o),
which is a ~prolonged form~ of the word, which means over a
prolonged period of time to live in the manner described, or more
succinctly to live a lifestyle of the word that follows (in this
case, "doeth" righteousness) - a lifestyle of righteousness. It
does not mean ".. does one act of righteousness .." And the same
exact Greek word is spoken by God when referring to committing
~sin~ below - meaning a lifestyle of sin, not one act of sin:
1 John 3:8 KJV He that committeth sin is of the devil; for
the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of
God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
"Comitteth" is translated from the exact same Greek word poieo
(poy-eh'-o) above, that was used to say "DOETH righteousness." So
again, He that "lives a lifestyle of" sin is of the devil.
1 John 3:9 KJV Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;
for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is
born of God.
Here, does not "commit" sin - exact same Greek word poieo
(poy-eh'-o), exact same form yet again: prolonged form of the
word. So it should more accurately have been translated into
English "Whosoever is born of God does not live a lifestyle of
sin".
>
> Commit does not mean 'a form that means to live a lifestyle of sin'.
>
> If you sin you live the lifestyle no matter what way you want to paint.
If what you claim is true, Michael, then you've just condemned
yourself as you've sinned numerous times in your own posts.
::: Jesus is LORD :::
Michael Christ
There is no justification for sin.
Michael Christ wrote:
>> Commit does not mean 'a form that means to live a lifestyle of sin'.
>>
>> If you sin you live the lifestyle no matter what way you want to paint.
Gabriel wrote:
> If what you claim is true, Michael, then you've just condemned
> yourself as you've sinned numerous times in your own posts.
How many times do you need to hear it, 'Gabriel the holy sinner of
magnificence is NOT the judge'.
You are not God!
Commit means commit!
Commit does not mean 'a form that means to live a lifestyle of sin'.
If you sin you live the lifestyle no matter what way you want to paint.
You are twisting the bible to suit your condition.
The Lord is not impressed with self-righteous 'occasional' (whatever the
hell that means) sinners.
Admit your sin. All of you is sin. ***ADMIT IT BY SUBMITTING YOURSELF TO
THE LORD WHOLLY AND COMPLETELY***. Until you do...YOU ARE CLAIMING IN THE
SPIRIT IN YOUR ACTIONS THAT YOU DO NOT SIN, AND HAVE NOT SINNED.
The Lord is not interested in token gesture 'occasional sin is okayism'.
The lukewarm are spewed, as they should be.
Michael Christ
Michael Christ
Michael Christ
Fred Thomas
Michael Christ
> The fact is the word simply means to do an act, do something. In both of
> your
> "commentaries" you failed to show what you are trying to imply. The fact
> is the
> word in the context of the passages imply exactly how the KJV lays it out.
Mike writes to Gabriel:
God does not twist and turn things to accommodate the fallen human
condition. God's nature is not like man's nature.
Commit means commit...to do an act, do something.
This is what the verse says and means...
1 John 3:9 (KJV): Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed
remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Why, because in Him is no darkness at all. Forget about what your religion
tells you, its a lie, you have to come out of it to know God.
A man in Christ has left the past life behind for good. You only find
compromise in the spirits of men, there is no compromise in the Spirit of
God. And He has His Son to prove it!
Michael Christ
gabriel
So you're judging every single professing Christian you've ever
met for 25 years as not genuine and still on their way to hell.
And yet you've pointed out in your own posts not to judge others.
ThomM
> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 05:49:14 GMT, "Michael Christ"
>
>
>
>
> > "Wild Bill" <bilsg...@daytonwa.net> wrote in message
> >news:hgh8g7$orj$1...@news.parasun.com...
>
> > > "Fred Thomas" <f...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > >news:hfpisq$u64$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> > >> "Michael Christ" <JesusisL...@Father.com> wrote in message
Obviously - a religions rules do not apply to those who make the
religion up.
Just look at the history of the catholic church to see that one!
Michael Christ
I don't judge you or I wouldn't be speaking to you and trying to help you
would I? All I do is present the truth to stubborn thick-headed
stiff-necked self-righteous sinners like you (and you most certainly are
one), and hope like hell they wake up.
Most of the time they don't.
In which case off they go and continue their lives of habitual 'occasional'
sin, deluded in the notion that it is okay.
Michael Christ