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Delete the D Kingsley G. Morse Jr.  
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 More options Jul 19, 5:02 am
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity, alt.child-support, alt.mens-rights
From: Kingsley G. Morse Jr. (Delete the D) <chan...@nas.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 11:02:03 +0200 (CEST)
Local: Sat, Jul 19 2008 5:02 am
Subject: Choice for Men Entertainment

               KEEP YOUR PANTS ON! (ON ALL DAY, ON ALL NIGHT)

                             (C) 1994-1995,2001

There are times when, as a man, I just have to hang my head between my knees
   and weep with joy when I contemplate my reproductive rights. We have no
 recourse or remedy in cases of accidental pregnancy, if we're lied to about
       contraception, or even if we're raped. I'm not making this up.

 While women's reproductive rights have been recognized since Roe v. Wade in
 1973, it has come to my attention that a certain other gender has never had
   the right to "choice", despite the fact that sexism has been shown, by
                   scientific laboratory tests, to be bad.

 Since 1973, millions(1) of women whose birth control failed, or who didn't
  use birth control, or whatever, have had abortions. How many men have had
 abortions? None! Why? (Besides the obvious I mean). Because the laws don't
   give men a reproductive choice. As you know if you follow world events,
  what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Yet our lawmakers, who
  apparently haven't read newspapers or the Constitution yet, believe women
                  should have a choice and men should not.

  It gets worse. Take the famous "Frank S." case(2) for example. The court
 ordered Frank to pay child support even though Pam lied to him about using
  birth control. Men can't use fraud as a defense. I'm not making this up.
  This demonstrates the "No" means "No" principle. When a man says "No" to
  parenthood, he really means 'Ignore me, I have "No" reproductive rights'.

  And it's not just Frank. Ask Shane Seyer(3). Despite the fact that he was
just twelve years old and too young to legally consent to sex, he was forced
   into parenthood by his baby sitter, and a court is making him pay child
       support. The February 12th 1995 issue of the St. Louis Missouri
  Post-Dispatch had article about another babysitter who forced a boy into
  fatherhood. This brings up the burning issue: did the boys' parents raise
                   their allowances to pay child support?

 And it's not just Frank and Shane. Lots of men are forced into parenthood.
Although Frank and Shane's cases are worse than most, you can bet that other
 guys want a choice too. How many? According to our own federal government,
  when its not busy deciding which picture to put on the Elvis stamp, over
 500,000(4) paternities are established each year. "Paternities established"
  is a secret code known only to the government, which can be translated as
   "dragged into court and forced to be a father". 500,000 is about one a
 minute, or the number of people living in Austin Texas. But this isn't the
 whole picture. Paternities are only established for unwed mothers. Husbands
    can dispense with the courtroom formality, proceed directly to forced
 parenthood, do not pass go and don't collect $200. Other government figures
show that one out of four children are born to unwed mothers and preliminary
 data indicates that 33%(5) of the four million(6) U.S. births each year may
                          be unintended by fathers.

At this point many reasonable readers might think that the best way to avoid
  parenthood would be for men to "keep their pants on". On all day, on all
  night, and on in the shower. Case law knows this as "the pants defense".
 Some men would probably be willing to wear two, three or even four pairs of
pants, whatever it takes, if it worked. Armed with this advance information,
    the determined men and women responsible for men's (current lack of)
reproductive rights have found more ways to force men into parenthood, and a
           way that doesn't even require the "father" to have sex!

I'm not making this up either. Ask Rodney Darnell(7). Officials in Iowa have
  begun garnishing his paycheck on behalf of a child with a different last
    name. A DNA test proving that he is not the child's father was ruled
 "irrelevant", as was the statement by the child's mother that he's not the
                                   father.

 Ultimately, there's the taxpayer, paying for children on welfare that he's
 never even met. He stares off into space, thinking that this is yet another
   case of our government serving him in a way he'd never have thought of
                  without the aid of a big bottle of booze.

 Child support isn't cheap. Count on about 1/4 of take home pay for eighteen
  years. Maybe guys should plea bargain to spend all of only four years in
 jail and let it go at that. That's the kind of men we are. Don't even think
  about the guys who are forced to pay for twins. I've decided to withhold
              their names pending notification of next of kin.

  So our laws are letting fraud, mistaken identity, and non consensual sex
force men into parenthood. Actually, I'm exaggerating. It turns out that our
laws DO give men a reproductive choice. men can always choose between paying
  and going to jail. If you think men are being treated as scapegoats, I'm
   sorry, you obviously have a bad attitude, and will most likely never be
    satisfied with the real choice that men have now. It's called "Men's
    Choice", and it's a hair color from Clairol. I'm not making this up.

 It's not just men who want to change the law. So does a former president of
   the National Organization of Women (NOW), Karen DeCrow. She was Frank's
    attorney and said "Justice therefore dictates that if a woman makes a
  unilateral decision to bring pregnancy to term, and the biological father
does not, and cannot, share in this decision, he should not be liable for 21
 years of support. Or, put another way, autonomous women making independent
 decisions about their lives should not expect men to finance their choice."

And it's not just men and Karen. My own survey found that more women want to
 give men a choice than do men!(8) That's right. I, myself, asked 102 people
 if men should have a choice, and more women said yes. Maybe women know just
   how important choice is, and want their brothers and sons to have it.

 And it's not just men and women. Its our environment. Too many births means
                overpopulation, pollution and deforestation.

 And it's not just humanity and the environment. This is also the opinion of
 Men's Rights Inc. and the National Center for Men, which want to reform our
                              paternity laws.

 So if Frank gets deceived again, he would have some recourse or remedy and
  Pam can do what she wants, which may well involve a career robbing banks.
                               Or, Pam could:

                             1. have an abortion.

                      2. put the child up for adoption.

    3. raise the child on her own, without any involvement or interference
                                 from the father.

   Unfortunately, at this point in time, people are treating reproductive
    rights as a matter of personal taste. Person A may think reproductive
freedom is a fundamental right, as women have enjoyed since 1973, yet person
    B might think all men are philandering scum who should be forced into
 parenthood, and, if necessary, sell that extra kidney to pay child support.
 But does this mean person B is wrong? Of course not. It simply means person
B is half-witted and should not be permitted to operate machinery. Of course
         I'm kidding, machinery will never be THAT easy to operate.

My survey also showed that only about a third of us think men shouldn't have
a choice. Sheesh, what's this country coming to? Emancipation in the 1800's,
  suffrage and choice for women in the 1900's, the next thing you know, men
 might get a reproductive choice too. Of course we may all be flying around
            in the Jetson's space ships by the time that happens.

  On the other hand, if you don't want to wait that long, join a free email
          based list server dedicated to legalizing Choice for Men.

                                 References

          1. Alan Guttmacher Institute, New York, NY, (212) 248-1111

     2. 5/3/83 L. Pamela P. v Frank S., Court of Appeals of New York: 462
                           N.Y.S.2d 819 (Ct.App. 1983)

  3. STATE of Kansas, ex rel., Colleen HERMESMANN, Appellee, v. Shane SEYER,
      a minor, and Dan and Mary Seyer, his parents, Appellants. No. 67,978.
                     Supreme Court of Kansas. March 5, 1993.

  4. Federal Office of Child Support Enforcement, 1992 Congressional Report

      5. DRAFT Unintended Births: Women's Attitudes vis-a-vis their Male
      Partners' Attitudes: 1982-1990, Joyce C. Abma and Linda J. Piccinino,
         NCHS, 6525 Belcrest Road, Hyattsville, MD 20782, (301) 436-8731

          6. Alan Guttmacher Institute, New York, NY, (212) 248-1111

     7. Des Moines Register, Jan94 and News of the Weird, March 11, 1994

     8. Survey conducted by Kingsley G. Morse Jr., October 1992, National
       Center for Men, P.O. Box 555 Old Bethpage, NY 11804 (516) 942-2020.


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pokieone  
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 More options Jul 21, 2:47 am
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity, alt.child-support, alt.mens-rights
From: "pokieone" <pokie...@shaw.ca>
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 06:47:05 GMT
Local: Mon, Jul 21 2008 2:47 am
Subject: Re: Choice for Men Entertainment

"Kingsley G. Morse Jr. (Delete the D)" <chan...@nas.com> wrote in message
news:g5saia$9ja$1@aioe.org...

Your post is very long and didn't read all of it, but you're under some
strange illusion that men should actually have rights. Are you serious!
Don't you know we men are nothing more than a penis with a wallet, and we
get it both ways! Consider one medical procedure, it really doesn't hurt
that much and the all worries will be in the past. And when a woman shares
her little lump in the belly with you; Then you can share your snippin'
secrete with her. The look on the woman's face is a very precious and wonder
experience...Well, I mean for the ...

read more »


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