CDRWIN, PIRACY, and WAREZ
Jeff Arnold
March 17, 1998
CDRWIN, PIRACY, AND WAREZ...
It has come to my attention that many people are not interested in
doing anything about software piracy on the Internet. While I have
received many Email messages supporting my stance against piracy, I
have also received just as many messages against it.
Since it is quite obvious that the average Internet user would rather
believe the pack of lies being spread by the software pirates instead
of believing a legitimate developer like myself, I have released a new
version of the software...
CDRWIN version 3.4B is now available from our web page... It contains
absolutely no "malicious protection" against piracy. All copies of
V3.4A have been deleted.
Please feel free to download it from our FTP site and distribute it to
all of your friends. I'll gladly pay all of the download fees...
ftp://ftp.cdarchive.com/pub/goldenhawk/download/cdr34b-e.exe
There isn't even a password protecting it from being downloaded. Maybe
somebody will develop a new pirate key generator and distribute it all
over the world, so everybody else has join in on the fun. It is very
clear from the Email that I have received over the last two days, that
I have no right to stop you from doing anything... Heck, why don't you
put the software on a floppy and sell it for $20 a copy (like a number
of pirate sites already do). You deserve to make a little money from
your efforts too. But wait, don't stop there... How about ordering our
software with a stolen credit card number (which happens many times
every month) and then distribute the unlock keys all over the net. If
there is anything else that I can do to help you distribute illegal
copies of our software, then please feel free to contact me...
I am *truly* disappointed in the number of people (including other
software developers) who are not willing to take a stand against the
WAREZ sites and who actually defend the pirates. The Internet piracy
rate is completely out of control and unfortunately there are currently
no laws that protect developers from this kind of fraud.
When all software distribution moves to the Internet (which it will
when high-speed fiberoptic connections because commonplace in the
future), the big developers like Microsoft and Sony are going to come
down hard on the pirates and WAREZ. These big companies are not going
to allow the Internet to become a "candy store" where software can be
stolen with the push of a button from the comfort of your home. If you
think that all of these "bits" are free, then try developing a really
good software product yourself and see how much money and time you have
to invest in it.
I would like to refute some of the lies that are being spread about
CDRWIN and myself personally...
- I have seen many postings calling me "nutty" and "hostile". This
couldn't be further from the truth. If you talk to most of my
customers (who were the only ones defending me in the newsgroups),
you will find that I fully support and stand by my products. You won't
find many software companies where the developer answers the phone
and handles tech support questions, but I do...
- There have been many postings telling potential customers that they
will screw up their systems if they make a mistake when entering their
unlock codes... THIS IS A COMPLETE LIE!! Find me a customer who this
has happened to and I'll send you $1000.
- No customer has ever been harmed by any of our anti-piracy schemes in
the 3 years that we have been selling the software. The only people
whining are the pirates who think they can get everything for free and
then spread lies when they don't get their way.
All I ask is that you take the negative comments about CDRWIN with a
grain of salt... In 90% of the cases, I think you'll find that a
software pirate is on the other end of the comments. Please take the
time to ask the person if they are a legitimate customer or just
somebody who's upset because we put a dent into their illegal supply
of free software.
As far as I'm concerned, this battle with the pirates and WAREZ is over
and I have no interest in trying to defeat them in the future. I'm not
about to lose everything that I have worked so hard for just to get
revenge on a bunch of low-lifes... This is obviously what the Internet
community wants, so lets hope you like what you've wished for...
Please feel free to call me at 603-429-1027 to discuss any concerns
that you have about CDRWIN, Golden Hawk Technology, or myself.
One final note... If anybody is interested in reading the best article
(in my opinion) ever written about piracy and copyright infringement,
then please see the February 1998 issue of Playboy (page 46). You will
see quotes from Internet pirates that are very similar to what has been
posted in these newsgroups about CDRWIN. The opening paragraph reads...
"We're used to being attacked by anti-sex zealots and religious nuts.
Now there's a new breed of moron sending us hate mail...".
Sincerely,
Jeff Arnold
Golden Hawk Technology
P.S. This is not a joke... all malicious protection has been removed
from our software. The pirates and WAREZ have won... I hope you can all
sleep better now knowing that's the kind of Internet you want for the
future.
Chris Phillipo
> I am *truly* disappointed in the number of people (including other
> software developers) who are not willing to take a stand against the
> WAREZ sites and who actually defend the pirates. The Internet piracy
> rate is completely out of control and unfortunately there are currently
> no laws that protect developers from this kind of fraud.
Oh cry me a river. Everyone here has said time and again what to do,
you already know how the key jen works, you know how to defeat it, why
don't you just make the program unusable if this keyjen is used? The
only logical reason for your actions can be petty revenge. I can see no
other motivation, because I can see no added protection or increase in
sales that could be generated by doing more than making the program
unusable, i.e. making a mess of a drive. I bet you thought you were
pretty clever with that little trick, but doing something that's illegal
makes you no better than those who would pirate your software.
>
> P.S. This is not a joke... all malicious protection has been removed
> from our software. The pirates and WAREZ have won... I hope you can all
> sleep better now knowing that's the kind of Internet you want for the
> future.
Boo hoo, if you want to suck on sour grapes go ahead, the smart money
would be on the guy who still uses his knowledge of how this keygen
works and defeats it by less hostile means.
--
___________________________________________
Chris Phillipo - webm...@tread.pair.com.
TREAD Online! Cycle Magazine - Authoring & Image Scanning.
http://tread.pair.com/ - http://tread.pair.com/treadpub/.
Allan Chan
Chris Phillipo wrote:
>
> > I am *truly* disappointed in the number of people (including other
> > software developers) who are not willing to take a stand against the
> > WAREZ sites and who actually defend the pirates. The Internet piracy
> > rate is completely out of control and unfortunately there are currently
> > no laws that protect developers from this kind of fraud.
Has anyone d/led this new version yet?? It is the registered copy or do
you still need a key for it to unlock?
Brian Rademacher
Allan Chan wrote:
>
> Chris Phillipo wrote:
> >
> > > I am *truly* disappointed in the number of people (including other
> > > software developers) who are not willing to take a stand against the
> > > WAREZ sites and who actually defend the pirates. The Internet piracy
> > > rate is completely out of control and unfortunately there are currently
> > > no laws that protect developers from this kind of fraud.
>
> you still need a key for it to unlock?
I think Jeff is frustrated, not stupid :)
Acman%
On Tue, 17 Mar 1998 19:49:36 -0800, Allan Chan
<nite...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>Chris Phillipo wrote:
>>
>> > I am *truly* disappointed in the number of people (including other
>> > software developers) who are not willing to take a stand against the
>> > WAREZ sites and who actually defend the pirates. The Internet piracy
>> > rate is completely out of control and unfortunately there are currently
>> > no laws that protect developers from this kind of fraud.
>
>Has anyone d/led this new version yet?? It is the registered copy or do
>you still need a key for it to unlock?
You still need a key.
Sorry I cant give it to you.
That would be PIRACY.<G>
Chris Severance
>March 17, 1998
>CDRWIN, PIRACY, AND WAREZ...
>It has come to my attention that many people are not interested in
>doing anything about software piracy on the Internet. While I have
>received many Email messages supporting my stance against piracy, I
>have also received just as many messages against it.
Nothing can be done. It is too well supported by those who can do
against it.
>Since it is quite obvious that the average Internet user would rather
>believe the pack of lies being spread by the software pirates instead
>of believing a legitimate developer like myself, I have released a new
>version of the software...
I suppose this pack of lies goes something like "sales of ___ greatly
benefit from piracy."
>CDRWIN version 3.4B is now available from our web page... It contains
>absolutely no "malicious protection" against piracy. All copies of
>V3.4A have been deleted.
Good, at least you have a way out when the lawyers come. That wasn't
malicious code like I posted before, that was a bug and I fixed it.
>There isn't even a password protecting it from being downloaded. Maybe
>somebody will develop a new pirate key generator and distribute it all
>over the world, so everybody else has join in on the fun. It is very
This happens anyways. You can make it hard but you can't stop it.
>I have no right to stop you from doing anything...
Yes you do and there's ways to do it that aren't illegal by the Laws
of the State of New Hampshire and the United States of America.
>How about ordering our
>software with a stolen credit card number (which happens many times
>every month)
That's illegal and should be reported. It has nothing to do with
software piracy. Perhaps your sales method of codes needs to be
updated. Maybe the web site hands them out too easy. Illegal codes can
be written into future versions so they don't work.
>and then distribute the unlock keys all over the net.
Illegaly distributed keys can be written out too.
>I am *truly* disappointed in the number of people (including other
>software developers) who are not willing to take a stand against the
>WAREZ sites and who actually defend the pirates.
Your stance is illegal. Society has an interest in preventing time
bombs. Certain kinds of retarded and psychotic people are time bombs
to themselves and others and that's why they end up in an asylum. Now,
we have CDRWIN34a that is a time bomb. Not only that, it can also be a
tool in the wrong hands. I can destroy computer systems simply by
installing that software and I may never get blamed for it. Jeeves
gets fired and I get the promotion. We have enough time bombs in our
computer society without decent authors making them.
>The Internet piracy
>rate is completely out of control and unfortunately there are currently
>no laws that protect developers from this kind of fraud.
Someday when laws can be found, they will be implemented. Laws have to
mightwork before they are considered. The few internet laws that have
showed up I've read the commentary and snippits and they are simply
impossible.
>- I have seen many postings calling me "nutty" and "hostile". This
Your postings *are* nutty and hostile and I'll add psychotic and
anarchist so you ain't no better than the pirates. The difference
between you and the rest of us psychotics lurking in the free world is
that we don't damage enough to get the policeman to show up. In fact,
I don't believe that you really wrote them and I refuse to check it
out given the possibility my hopes will be dashed.
>couldn't be further from the truth. If you talk to most of my
>customers (who were the only ones defending me in the newsgroups),
Some legal customers beat you up too including one who claims to have
a legal key and his HD was trashed too. The few people who supported
you didn't seem to have a clear grasp of the law. Not only is the
specific law clear on this, the general purpose of law is also quite
clear.
>you will find that I fully support and stand by my products. You won't
>find many software companies where the developer answers the phone
>and handles tech support questions, but I do...
Your tech support and products are very fine. However, what you found
is that there are some unacceptable practices in software creation.
Endangering an unimaginable number of computers in unexpected places
is something you take to your grave, not to the market.
I think you'll find that with your update, this will soon pass. The
number of burnt customers will be relatively few. What you must
remember is that the "end justifies the means" NOT!
>- No customer has ever been harmed by any of our anti-piracy schemes in
>the 3 years that we have been selling the software. The only people
>whining are the pirates who think they can get everything for free and
>then spread lies when they don't get their way.
I think you will find that pirates spread cracks when the form of
protection is too obtrusive. Learning the balance between free use
prevention and providing good service to the freeloaders is very
tricky.
>All I ask is that you take the negative comments about CDRWIN with a
>grain of salt... In 90% of the cases, I think you'll find that a
>software pirate is on the other end of the comments. Please take the
>time to ask the person if they are a legitimate customer or just
>somebody who's upset because we put a dent into their illegal supply
>of free software.
But if they were illegal would they respond, "Oh yes, I wrote that but
I am really a pirate! I just wanted to get his goat and make it sound
convincing! Don't tell anyone!"
>As far as I'm concerned, this battle with the pirates and WAREZ is over
That's a good way to be. You shouldn't view it as a battle with swords
but a battle of wits.
>and I have no interest in trying to defeat them in the future.
Here again, you are wrong. Defeating the pirates isn't so hard. I'll
e-mail some hints that will accomplish what you were trying to do but
not do mean things to unsuspecting users. The secret is to be annoying
but not destructive.
>Please feel free to call me at 603-429-1027 to discuss any concerns
>that you have about CDRWIN, Golden Hawk Technology, or myself.
No, someday when the support shows for my DAO compatible Memorex and I
register, I will consider calling that number. For now, I will not
waste your time with your family with petty comments. AFAIam
concerned, I have to contribute money before I can use your phone.
>One final note... If anybody is interested in reading the best article
>(in my opinion) ever written about piracy and copyright infringement,
>then please see the February 1998 issue of Playboy (page 46). You will
It's too bad that Playboy writes such good articles but puts them with
smut so most decent folks won't have them around. "I don't look at the
pictures, I read the articles." We need a Playboy-PG13
>all malicious protection has been removed
>from our software.
A very wise choice. MDOP is not a good thing to have attached to your
software.
>The pirates and WAREZ have won...
Not. You stumbled on the secret I knew about long ago but you failed
to do the right thing about it. Instead, MDOP seemed to be your
preferred choice.
You filled your response with cynacism. Again, this is not the mark of
a professional. Try to avoid this writing unless you want to write
fiction or anti-government spam.
severachATja...@m.com
Michael
Jeff Arnold wrote:
>
>snip
>
> CDRWIN version 3.4B is now available from our web page... It contains
> absolutely no "malicious protection" against piracy.
>
ALL keygenerators floating around are disabled now in this version.
As in former times you'll get a fake-registration and all CDs you'll
try to burn will be coasters (after 20-30% the CD will be ejected).
<snip>
>
> P.S. This is not a joke... all malicious protection has been removed
> from our software. The pirates and WAREZ have won... I hope you can all
> sleep better now knowing that's the kind of Internet you want for the
> future.
Not a joke, no, just the same childish try to fuck people.
What you want to say is YOU have won, at least you think so.
I for myself really can sleep better because I'll do the
right thing and hope many others will do the same:
Stay away from this piece of crap - use Nero, or any other
really clean software.
Michael
Patrick
>>and I have no interest in trying to defeat them in the future.
>Here again, you are wrong. Defeating the pirates isn't so hard. I'll
>e-mail some hints that will accomplish what you were trying to do but
>not do mean things to unsuspecting users. The secret is to be annoying
>but not destructive.
The point is though that the more difficult a program is to crack -
the more the eager youngish crackers are to show their skill in
cracking it.
Lawrence Dillard
I dont remember anything about software piracy in Playboy, but then again I
don't buy it for the articles...
Jeff Arnold wrote in message
<350F4...@mainstream.net>...
>March 17, 1998
>(in my opinion) ever written about piracy and copyright infringement,
>then please see the February 1998 issue of Playboy (page 46). You will
>
>Jeff Arnold
>Golden Hawk Technology
>
>
.
inqui...@skuz.net
[snip]
# All copies of V3.4A have been deleted.
Yeah, right...
=Current directory is /pub/goldenhawk/download
=
=
=Welcome
=
=Up to higher level directory
= cdr34a-a.exe 644 Kb Mon Mar 09
19:44:00 1998 Binary Executable
= cdr34b-e.exe 465 Kb Wed Mar 18
06:42:00 1998 Binary Executable
= cdr34b-g.exe 458 Kb Wed Mar 18
06:42:00 1998 Binary Executable
= dao16v34.zip 961 Kb Wed Mar 18
06:42:00 1998 WinZip File
= dao32v34.zip 732 Kb Wed Mar 18
06:42:00 1998 WinZip File
= dem34b-e.exe 465 Kb Wed Mar 18
06:42:00 1998 Binary Executable
[snip]
Paul Creamer
This portion says it all...
The simple fact that malicious code was there to start with makes the
product
and all future versions ...worthless..
Even if all the comments against CDRWIN were wrong...
His own comments says enough...
Malicious code often can accidently (unintentionally) crossover and affect
the valid user ......
That reason alone makes CDRWIN a stay-away product....
Even if no valid user has ever been hit .... the chance is still there...
:>
:>P.S. This is not a joke... all malicious protection has been removed
:
***********
Man, what a thread....
This would be great for a talk show.
Jerry Springer?
Oprah?-forget her, she doesn't like meat.....hehe
The DEMON
aka
TCP
--
__
/B/\
/L/ D\
/A/ /\E\
/C/ /\ \M\
/K/_/__\ \0\
/________\ \N\
\___________\/
A message said "Requires Windows 95 or better", so I installed LINUX.
Jim H.
On Wed, 18 Mar 1998 15:25:18 -0800, "Lawrence Dillard"
<LDILLARD/ITD/Harland@Harland> wrote:
>I dont remember anything about software piracy in Playboy, but then again I
>don't buy it for the articles...
>
>
>
>Jeff Arnold wrote in message
><350F4...@mainstream.net>...
>>March 17, 1998
>
>>(in my opinion) ever written about piracy and copyright infringement,
>>then please see the February 1998 issue of Playboy (page 46). You will
>>
>>Jeff Arnold
>>Golden Hawk Technology
>>
>>
>.
>
I tried to scan the Playboy article for everyone here to read, but
after I scanned it, all the girlie pictures in the magazine filled up
with text. Damn! how'd you do that Jeff! ;)
Lighten up everybody, but try for a sec to put yourself in Jeff's
shoes. We all would respond differently, but Jeff put his talents in
hyperdrive, and I believe he's trying to correct his possible PR
mis-judgement. I, for one, try to encourage software developers
by purchasing their products if it's good, and Jeff's software is one
I have purchased. He's got the disabled demo, but he also has the no
question return policy:
"We offer a 30-day money back guarantee (no questions asked) on all
of our products. . ."
Sorry Jeff I copied that from your web page. ;)
<looking at my HD light for massive activity>
so if you want to "try" it, buy it. If you don't like it, you'll get
your money back. nuff said.
GORT
Clean out the "spamicide" from my address to contact me via E-mail
mark
On Wed, 18 Mar 1998 14:57:11 +0100, Michael
<mfer...@radio-regenbogen.de> wrote:
>Jeff Arnold wrote:
>>
>>snip
>>
>> CDRWIN version 3.4B is now available from our web page... It contains
>> absolutely no "malicious protection" against piracy.
>>
>You forgot to say one important thing:
>ALL keygenerators floating around are disabled now in this version.
>As in former times you'll get a fake-registration and all CDs you'll
>try to burn will be coasters (after 20-30% the CD will be ejected).
>
good try making a key generator that works
><snip>
>>
>> P.S. This is not a joke... all malicious protection has been removed
>> from our software. The pirates and WAREZ have won... I hope you can all
>> sleep better now knowing that's the kind of Internet you want for the
>> future.
>
>Not a joke, no, just the same childish try to fuck people.
>What you want to say is YOU have won, at least you think so.
>I for myself really can sleep better because I'll do the
>right thing and hope many others will do the same:
>Stay away from this piece of crap - use Nero, or any other
>really clean software.
>
never had a problem with my regestered version of cdrwin and if it
realy is a peice of crap why all the bullsh* post about it. I find it
realy funny that people who are breaking the law and trying to steal
software and are suposed to be elite are crying like a bunch of
babys. If you guys are that good, bust his code and post the key
generator that works. with the hate thats been posted if you could you
would, so stop crying and take your lumps.
>Michael
to reply remove nospam from email
Smith
There's no point in arguing the piracy issue from a stationary point,
becuase it simply does not apply everywhere. I believe that in CDRWIN's
arena, the piracy of the software IS a crime becuase the majority of users
ARE potential customers. As soon as I get my CDR, the first thing I am
doing is getting a regged copy of CDRWIN -- for $20, it's saving $1000's on
software and other intellectual properties. And it's not a switchstance of
advocacy...
For companies like Sony and Columbia and Microsoft, the "millions lost" to
software piracy in reality is quite small. The reason is, most of those who
do copy PSX games, Office 98, and Photoshop are NOT potential customers --
your typical warez "kids" are NOT execs pulling in 100k a year who can throw
down $500 for a program, and no real dollars are being lost. It's a unique
situation becuase intellectual properties are a very new issue. It's not
something quantifiable like a television or bar of gold, becuase there's no
cost degredation to the production company. 12 year old Billy who's using
Photoshop to electronicly undress a picture of Sandra Bullock is not a
customer, and would have never been one. And him using the software does
nothing to Adobe. In fact, it helps them...
wawawawhat?!?!? That's right. It helps it become a standard. The more
users a software has, either regged or "stolen", is great for a company
becuase standards develop, as does demand. Word of mouth also makes an
impression that millions in advertising could never achieve -- and it's for
free.
I'll go so far as to say that the losses incurred from potential customers
whom actually opted to use a pirated copy are FAR LESS than the advantage of
additional 1000's of users working paths for the comanies. It's applies for
everyone.
And you know what, the big boys know this, and that's why they don't do
anything about it. Microsoft knows, and they don't care -- becuase they're
smart. The SPA is a great front for them letting you know that "this is
bad", but it's a proverbial DARE program in it's lack of enforcement and
ability. They know it doesn't work, and that's exactly what it's there for.
To show of a failing effort, and to show a little human victim in the
Microsoft machine.
But smaller programs arn't like that. When you find a great shareware
program, in which you really could and would buy if the link to a crack
wern't next to it, you are costing the author money. And were not talking
about moguls here either -- we're talking hard working individuals who have
provided something even the big boys didn't. And they deserve to be
rewarded for their efforts.
USENuts
>March 17, 1998
>
>
>CDRWIN, PIRACY, AND WAREZ...
>
>
-- snips --
Jamie
E...@earth.net wrote:
> me neither I paid my 69.00 and no problems but pirates are born saying
>
> I have a right, I'm due all I survey, they re-incarnations of
> old pirates,thieves and scumm of the earth. they killed the
> atari,amiga,atari st, commodores,and all else that would copy, I know
> I used to do it. now I buy yes I buy
ROTFL!!! I owned a Commodore 64 and Amiga for years and I can assure
you, without question, that COMMODORE killed them! Gawd! That company
had the absolute worst marketing department on the planet earth. They
came up with a great piece of hardware in the Amiga, and a wonderful OS
that was so buggy you couldn't work for an hour without a crash. They
acted as if popular media and software support wasn't important to the
success of their machine. And then, just when it seemed as if it might
catch on, they let the hardware become obsolete as run-of-the-mill PCs
and Macs easily outperformed them in their strong suits.
The pirates killed them! Ha hahahahha....
Jamie
Jamie
AdaptecCD-R (Deirdre' Straughan)
Smith wrote:
>
> For companies like Sony and Columbia and Microsoft, the "millions lost" to
> software piracy in reality is quite small. The reason is, most of those who
> do copy PSX games, Office 98, and Photoshop are NOT potential customers --
> your typical warez "kids" are NOT execs pulling in 100k a year who can throw
> down $500 for a program, and no real dollars are being lost.
Jeff's software costs $69, our Easy CD Creator costs $99. I don't think you can
call those prices deterrents to buying, especially considering that your
hypothetical kid went out and bought a CD recorder, and presumably isn't
stealing the blanks he's recording to. (I dunno, maybe he's a shoplifter, too.)
For the same reason, almost every copy of our software that is used *would* be
bought if there was no other way to get it, because you need some sort of
software to use the CD recorder *at all*. You can live without naked pictures of
Sandra Bullock, but presumably if you bought a recorder, you're going to use it
one way or the other.
> It's a unique
> situation becuase intellectual properties are a very new issue.
Not that new. When I worked as a secretary in Washington in 1986, we had only
one copy of WordPerfect between about 20 workstations, as I discovered when I
went looking for a manual. At the time I honestly did not know that that was
illegal. But I think that by now most people are well aware of what software
piracy means, especially anyone who's computer-savvy enough to be in these
newsgroups in the first place.
> And you know what, the big boys know this, and that's why they don't do
> anything about it. Microsoft knows, and they don't care -- becuase they're
> smart.
A couple of years ago Microsoft cared enough to have a piracy police squad
headed by a woman who was the most hated person in the pirate groups -- because
she succeeded in busting pirates. I doubt that they've stopped all action on the
issue since then.
> But smaller programs arn't like that. When you find a great shareware
> program, in which you really could and would buy if the link to a crack
> wern't next to it, you are costing the author money. And were not talking
> about moguls here either -- we're talking hard working individuals who have
> provided something even the big boys didn't. And they deserve to be
> rewarded for their efforts.
I fully agree. But please keep in mind that piracy hurts the "big boys," too.
And those costs, one way or another, cannot fail to get back to you, the
consumer.
--
Best regards, Deirdre' Straughan
"Largo al factotum del CD-R"
Adaptec Software Products Group
Got a question about CD-R? http://www.adaptec.com/cdrec
Get help from other users through the Adaptec CD-R list.
http://listserv.adaptec.com/
Quentyn Taylor
as a further bit to this message. Jeff arnold who is so pissed off about
software piracy actually supports it!!!
I quote off the web page of goldenhawk
Will your software copy PlayStation discs?
You can't play a CD-R copy by just dropping it into the
Playstation. You have to get a special "chip"
installed inside your console that defeats the copy protection
scheme (we do not do this modification).
Even though our software is capable of copying many game discs
What the fuck is this guy on? maybe Sony should have a word with him, how
would he like it if his playstation suddenly blew up with a CDR copy in
side. although the odds of it happening with a legit copy are 1:270 trillion
(from the thread above)
Quentyn
Paul Creamer wrote:
> This portion says it all...
>
> The simple fact that malicious code was there to start with makes the
> product
> and all future versions ...worthless..
>
> Even if all the comments against CDRWIN were wrong...
> His own comments says enough...
>
> Malicious code often can accidently (unintentionally) crossover and affect
> the valid user ......
>
> That reason alone makes CDRWIN a stay-away product....
> Even if no valid user has ever been hit .... the chance is still there...
>
> :>
> :>P.S. This is not a joke... all malicious protection has been removed
> :
H. James
>There's no point in arguing the piracy issue from a stationary point,
>becuase it simply does not apply everywhere. I believe that in CDRWIN's
>arena, the piracy of the software IS a crime becuase the majority of users
>ARE potential customers. As soon as I get my CDR, the first thing I am
>doing is getting a regged copy of CDRWIN -- for $20, it's saving $1000's on
>software and other intellectual properties. And it's not a switchstance of
>advocacy...
>
That's right. Because Mr. Arnold is himself a former (?) pirate, and
wired into that market with his software solution for copying
expensive CD's that mainstream software couldn't duplicate.
>For companies like Sony and Columbia and Microsoft, the "millions lost" to
>software piracy in reality is quite small. The reason is, most of those who
>do copy PSX games, Office 98, and Photoshop are NOT potential customers --
>your typical warez "kids" are NOT execs pulling in 100k a year who can throw
>down $500 for a program, and no real dollars are being lost. It's a unique
>situation becuase intellectual properties are a very new issue. It's not
>something quantifiable like a television or bar of gold, becuase there's no
>cost degredation to the production company. 12 year old Billy who's using
>Photoshop to electronicly undress a picture of Sandra Bullock is not a
>customer, and would have never been one. And him using the software does
>nothing to Adobe. In fact, it helps them...
>
>wawawawhat?!?!? That's right. It helps it become a standard. The more
>users a software has, either regged or "stolen", is great for a company
>becuase standards develop, as does demand. Word of mouth also makes an
>impression that millions in advertising could never achieve -- and it's for
>free.
>I'll go so far as to say that the losses incurred from potential customers
>whom actually opted to use a pirated copy are FAR LESS than the advantage of
>additional 1000's of users working paths for the comanies. It's applies for
>everyone.
>
My goodness, your "decent logic" is so cogent and lacking in sweeping
generalizations and characterizations -- NOT! If you were a
shareholder of MS or Sony stock, you'd think twice before ignoring an
estimated billion dollars in lost revenue from piracy. Your cartoonish
analogy of the pimply kid using costly software to promote the
ultimate sales of said software is the fuzziest logic I've seen on the
subject.
>
>And you know what, the big boys know this, and that's why they don't do
>anything about it. Microsoft knows, and they don't care -- becuase they're
>smart. The SPA is a great front for them letting you know that "this is
>bad", but it's a proverbial DARE program in it's lack of enforcement and
>ability. They know it doesn't work, and that's exactly what it's there for.
>To show of a failing effort, and to show a little human victim in the
>Microsoft machine.
>
Ah, yet another conspiracy theory about the "big (bad) boys" and their
half-hearted efforts to curb piracy. Too bad you aren't aware of the
1288 MS-instigated piracy court cases pending (ref: Feb. 18 issue of
Software Reseller News). You're as well-informed as your are
"logical"...
>
>But smaller programs arn't like that. When you find a great shareware
>program, in which you really could and would buy if the link to a crack
>wern't next to it, you are costing the author money. And were not talking
>about moguls here either -- we're talking hard working individuals who have
>provided something even the big boys didn't. And they deserve to be
>rewarded for their efforts.
>
Duh! Of course small shareware guys need financial support. And if you
look at the ones who made it big-time (McAfee, Intuit, Quarterdeck,
Jasc......the list reads like a software Who's-Who), they all began as
shareware publishers whose software was (still is) cracked and offered
on the 'net and BBS sites every time a new version would pop up. But
did that put them out of business, Mr. Logic? Shit, wish I had a small
fraction of their profits. If there was ever a case made for
propagating and promoting a product, extensive distribution -- legal
or otherwise -- has proven to serve these companies very well.
Especially in the case of Mr. Arnold, whose product's reputation was
enhanced and promoted none other than the warez crowd who were his
primary target audience. His publicly neurotic and antagonistic
relationship with them only serves to scare away potential paying
customers.
Lastly, Mr. Decent Logic, the whole issue that's filled the newsgroups
with this interminable thread is not the morality of pirating. That's
a non-issue which is obvious to even the lowest warez hacker. The
issue is Arnold's own admission to seeding his program with a virus
and/or trojan in order to thwart pirates (something that's been, my
estimate, less than 3% effective). If I were the least bit interested
in the alleged benefits of his software, I wouldn't want a malicious
time-bomb running on my computer -- regardless of his statistical
assurances to the contrary. And I also wouldn't want to encourage the
recklessness of his practices. If his product is so good, it's
inevitable, then, that we'll eventually see it bundled with CD-R units
and on the shelves of CompUSA and other retail outlets. Right?
H. James
Smith
hmmmm.......
H. James
>as a further bit to this message. Jeff arnold who is so pissed off about
>software piracy actually supports it!!!
>
>I quote off the web page of goldenhawk
>
>Will your software copy PlayStation discs?
>
> You can't play a CD-R copy by just dropping it into the
>Playstation. You have to get a special "chip"
> installed inside your console that defeats the copy protection
>scheme (we do not do this modification).
> Even though our software is capable of copying many game discs
>
>What the fuck is this guy on? maybe Sony should have a word with him, how
>would he like it if his playstation suddenly blew up with a CDR copy in
>side. although the odds of it happening with a legit copy are 1:270 trillion
>(from the thread above)
>
>Quentyn
>
>Paul Creamer wrote:
>
>> This portion says it all...
>>
Excellent point!! Which is why several people in this vast thread
pointed out what a hypocrite Mr. Arnold is. Your post is a keeper!!
H. James
David Van Dromme
>I think Jeff is frustrated, not stupid :)
Well, I'm not surprised - I would be too. He's working his ass off to
get this program working the way it is and he gets tons of emails of
misguided lamers and pirates to complain to him and bother him on his
private number about so-called "malicious" code that isn't even
malicious at all + they don't even have the right to complain about it
since they never purchased the product at all (so they shouldn't be
expecting support for it) & they're only stealing his time, money and
rest... BTW.: Malicious would be: e.g. having it format the harddisc,
mix up the FAT or something ;-)
Chris Phillipo
> realy funny that people who are breaking the law and trying to steal
> software and are suposed to be elite are crying like a bunch of
> babys. If you guys are that good, bust his code and post the key
> generator that works. with the hate thats been posted if you could you
> would, so stop crying and take your lumps.
> >Michael
Why bother when so many valid, paid for keys are being passed around?
You seem to be under the impressio they people here are whining that
their key generator has some how bee thwarted. I have yet to see a post
with regard to this. People, myself included, are outraged that anyone
who buys this program is put at risk because of one man's petty need for
revenge.
David Van Dromme
On Thu, 19 Mar 1998 09:17:47 -0500, Jamie <ja...@treworgy.com> wrote:
>ROTFL!!! I owned a Commodore 64 and Amiga for years and I can assure
>you, without question, that COMMODORE killed them! Gawd! That company
I have to join in with that comment, however it does not have that
much to do with the CDRWIN subject here. I see no benefit for a
pirate to bother a small company with low profits - who don't ask too
much for their software anyway. I think CDRWIN is worth purchasing,
and I don't see why people should be bothered with complaining so much
about the protection Jeff has implemented. I haven't seen a single
legit user here yet (although some pirates seem to have, but this
looks like a staged setup to me) complaining that cdrwin does
malicious stuff on his machine.
Jamie
AdaptecCD-R (Deirdre' Straughan) wrote:
> Jeff's software costs $69, our Easy CD Creator costs $99. I don't think you can
> call those prices deterrents to buying, especially considering that your
> hypothetical kid went out and bought a CD recorder, and presumably isn't
> stealing the blanks he's recording to. (I dunno, maybe he's a shoplifter, too.)
The flaw in this logic is that the hypothetical kid's parents bought the
CD recorder. This kid has no job and an allowance of 20 bucks a week.
He copies playstation games and/or PC games from his friends, which his
parents bought. Truly, it is hard to argue that this form of piracy
really costs the industry a lot of money. Not many of these would have
translated into actual sales in the absence of copying.
> For the same reason, almost every copy of our software that is used *would* be
> bought if there was no other way to get it, because you need some sort of
> software to use the CD recorder *at all*. You can live without naked pictures of
Many (not all) CD recorders come with a software package of some kind. I
do agree that _actual_ lost revenues to piracy are probably greater in
the case of certain types of software, such as yours, though - for now.
As time goes on, though, I expect basic CD copying/recording software
will become part of windoze 3000. But I still maintain that with some
exceptions, the billions of dollars estimated to be lost are way
inflated. Why? Estimating the number of illegal copies in existance is
far, far removed from the _actual_ number of lost sales. The logic that
(1) illegal copy = (1) lost sale is completely flawed.
In the case of very expensive application software, most of the
customers are businesses and professionals. The pirates are hacks.
These people would _never_ spend $500 for a piece of software which they
might use only occasionaly. They simply wouldn't have it, or would use
a much cheaper shareware product. As another example, many people
"pirate" software for use at home which is owned by their office. But
it's ridiculous for a software company to expect a person to actually
*pay* for their own copy when they use a licensed one at work -- both
copies would never be used at the same time. Technically it's illegal,
but technically it would also be legal to uninstall it every day before
going home and re-install it on your PC at home.
In the case of games, much of the piracy comes from kids who simply
wouldn't have the money to buy them. Their parents sure as hell
wouldn't buy them racks of $49 game progams. That's not to say this
type of piracy is without cost to society - think of the millions of
wasted education dollars! I bet average test scores would go way up if
there was no piracy of video games. ;-)
> When I worked as a secretary in Washington in 1986, we had only
> one copy of WordPerfect between about 20 workstations, as I discovered when I
> went looking for a manual. At the time I honestly did not know that that was
This is where I believe 95% of *actual* revenues are lost. Although the
absence of a manual doesn't necessarily indicate the absence of a
license. Most companies negotiate licensing agreements with software
companies which don't include manuals. Maybe not in 1986, but when we
used WordPerfect in my corporate life of old, we didn't have manuals but
were actually licensed. But that's not the point - this happens, and
these situations are *really* where the anti-piracy folks should be
focusing their efforts.
For these reasons, I believe that shutting down every "warez" channel on
earth would improve sales only slightly. By and large, those people
just aren't potential customers; and the biggest thieves won't be found
there at all.
Jamie
Jamie
Sorry. I should have changed the topic to "COMMODORE, PIRACY and
WAREZ". I was responding to a ridiculous proposition that piracy killed
these machines; I was no longer talking about CDRWIN.
But back to your return to the thread, this has little to do with
whether a legitimate user has been burned. It also has little to do
with actually selling software. It has to do with revenge.
Jamie
Wapscallion Flea!
I'm pretty much sick of seeing this topic drone on and on and on and
on....
(So what do I do?.. throw my two cents in :)
I don't own a CD-R(W) unit yet. I plan on getting one this summer. All
I have read about CDRWIN on the newsgroups points to it being a really
cool program with LOTS of good features.
However... I've invested ALOT of time and money in my system. And I
don't want to chance it getting screwed up by me making a typo or a
system glitch activating hidden coding.
No matter how infintessimal the chances are.. there "is" still a
chance. And with my luck, it would happen to me.
I understand the author's desire to protect his work, and at the same
I think people need to understand that not everyone wants to take the
chance (however slight)!
Smith
>My goodness, your "decent logic" is so cogent and lacking in sweeping
>generalizations and characterizations -- NOT!
If you were a
>shareholder of MS or Sony stock, you'd think twice before ignoring an
>estimated billion dollars in lost revenue from piracy. Your cartoonish
>analogy of the pimply kid using costly software to promote the
>ultimate sales of said software is the fuzziest logic I've seen on the
>subject.
Then quantify losses for me. That's what no one, included you can seem to
do. Sony is not suffering in the US do to piracy. In China, they are, just
like all software publishers do. But even that still exists, and if you
read how "well" they enforce the laws there, even under strong international
pressure, you would realize that there IS no problem, even in a market where
you can walk into a place as easy as you can Wal-Mart, and buy all the
latest for under $10 a disc.
Part of this is China's own intentions to prosecute, but it also represents
a lack of US pressure to really do anything.
>Ah, yet another conspiracy theory about the "big (bad) boys" and their
>half-hearted efforts to curb piracy. Too bad you aren't aware of the
>1288 MS-instigated piracy court cases pending (ref: Feb. 18 issue of
>Software Reseller News). You're as well-informed as your are
>"logical"...
Again, you fail to quantify anything. What, if anything does that mean?
And it doesn't disprove my theory, either. Prosecuting offenses will
obviously happen, but this doesn't mean that Msoft is hurting by any means.
First, this IS appropriate because the Author of CDRWIN is obviously a
pirtate -- it was born with the surname "PSXCOPY". And it is based on other
threds immediatly following his initial posting.
The game changes when you go big, becuase you get something called
DISTRIBUTION. Small authors don't have this, and must rely on a form of
download-register that is MUCH more suseptiable to piracy.
I commend him on having the balls to put some malicious code in his
software -- it's a great idea. It may not be foolproof, but it works.
I take the mockery with a grain of salt becuase you offer no counters that I
have not heard a million times before. You offer no loss in actual numbers
that can be quantified by realistic potential customers. It's not a gimmick
or a farce, it's a simple request with something that *DOES make sense. How
can it not? You don't refute this, nor do you offer any better logic to
calculate losses.
@sprynet.com curious doug
> You can live without naked pictures of
> Sandra Bullock, but presumably if you
> bought a recorder, you're going to use it
> one way or the other.
How was the vacation?
Jamie
rt...@bigfoot.con wrote:
> again I was reffreing more to the software makers than the machines
> themselves but ultimately a machine without software gets dumped for
> those WITH . IF you want keep watching the Macs those are next! tell
> me how much software you see on the store shelves for them. or how
> many companies are producing software for it versus 5 years ago?
I might argue a completely different point of view: Commodore 64 and
Amiga put a number of very successful software companies on the map.
Such as Electronic Arts and Activision, off the top of my head.
And to suggest that software piracy will be responsible for the death of
Macintosh ..... ?? Where have you been, on Mars? Mac has, for years,:
1) Not licensed (except for one brief exception) their technology to be
produced by third parties
2) Subsquently a mac has traditionally cost *significantly* more than an
roughly equivalent PC
As a result, most people, except zealots, see their dollar going a lot
farther on a PC. So, now, there is a very simple reason why you don't
see much Macintosh software on the shelves. THEY HAVE LESS THAN 10% OF
THE PC MARKET!!!
Jamie
Paul Creamer
Actually what killed the AMIGA was lack of SOFTWARE outside the
GAMES & VIDEO area....
Ie; A former (as of Summer 97) longtime AMIGA owner...
Though that 25mhz 68030 AMIGA 3000 downloaded files using the same
33.6 modem ...much quicker than the PC ever could ..PC being 200mhz...
Reason: AMIGA's OS was UNIX style multiple shells ,etc....
I regularly downloaded dozens of files simultaniously.... with virtually no
degrading on CPS ..
whereas on my 200mhz machine ...after I attempt to download more than a
couple..
It almost dies many a time...and the CPS is never as good as it was on
AMIGA..
DOnt get me wrong....I needed APPLICATIONS that didnt exist .....
& that was due to going from Video developement to PROGRAMMING...
rt...@bigfoot.con wrote in message <3515b871...@news.supernews.com>...
:On Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:36:59 -0500, Jamie <ja...@treworgy.com> wrote:
:
:>David Van Dromme wrote:
:>>
:>> On Thu, 19 Mar 1998 09:17:47 -0500, Jamie <ja...@treworgy.com> wrote:
:>>
:>> >ROTFL!!! I owned a Commodore 64 and Amiga for years and I can assure
:>> >you, without question, that COMMODORE killed them! Gawd! That company
:>> I have to join in with that comment, however it does not have that
:>> much to do with the CDRWIN subject here. I see no benefit for a
:>> pirate to bother a small company with low profits - who don't ask too
:>> much for their software anyway. I think CDRWIN is worth purchasing,
:>> and I don't see why people should be bothered with complaining so much
:>> about the protection Jeff has implemented.
:
: I do agree it's worth buying IF you REALLY need it, and I do
:beleive it killed a lot of software MAKERS thats what I really meant.
:
:
: And I love the winers crying over though keys hope jeff makes
:them twice as hard to crack
:>> I haven't seen a single
:>> legit user here yet (although some pirates seem to have, but this
:>> looks like a staged setup to me) complaining that cdrwin does
:>> malicious stuff on his machine.
:EXTREMELY STAGGED !!!!
:
:>
:>Sorry. I should have changed the topic to "COMMODORE, PIRACY and
:>WAREZ". I was responding to a ridiculous proposition that piracy killed
:>these machines; I was no longer talking about CDRWIN.
:
:again I was reffreing more to the software makers than the machines
:themselves but ultimately a machine without software gets dumped for
:those WITH . IF you want keep watching the Macs those are next! tell
:me how much software you see on the store shelves for them. or how
:many companies are producing software for it versus 5 years ago?
:
:>
:>But back to your return to the thread, this has little to do with
:
Newman
> >>
> >>snip
> >>
> >> CDRWIN version 3.4B is now available from our web page... It contains
> >> absolutely no "malicious protection" against piracy.
> >>
> >You forgot to say one important thing:
> >ALL keygenerators floating around are disabled now in this version.
> >As in former times you'll get a fake-registration and all CDs you'll
> >try to burn will be coasters (after 20-30% the CD will be ejected).
> >
> good try making a key generator that works
> ><snip>
> >>
> >> from our software. The pirates and WAREZ have won... I hope you can all
> >> sleep better now knowing that's the kind of Internet you want for the
> >> future.
> >
> >What you want to say is YOU have won, at least you think so.
> >I for myself really can sleep better because I'll do the
> >right thing and hope many others will do the same:
> >Stay away from this piece of crap - use Nero, or any other
> >really clean software.
> >
> never had a problem with my regestered version of cdrwin and if it
> realy is a peice of crap why all the bullsh* post about it. I find it
> software and are suposed to be elite are crying like a bunch of
> babys. If you guys are that good, bust his code and post the key
> generator that works. with the hate thats been posted if you could you
> would, so stop crying and take your lumps.
Your the shithead paying good money to someone who can't deal with a
normal part of computer life such as piracy... its not only Jeff's
problem, its every programmers problem. Thats why he has no right to
deliberately code malicious code in his programs, that could harm both
'good' and 'bad' users alike. What a selfish prick, and you, all high and
mighty because you handed over the money. Its not only the hackers that
are whining, its everybody with half a brain in their head who know that
once this whole malicious code thing becomes common practice, we're all
screwed.
mark
>
>Your the shithead paying good money to someone who can't deal with a
>normal part of computer life such as piracy... its not only Jeff's
>problem, its every programmers problem. Thats why he has no right to
>deliberately code malicious code in his programs, that could harm both
>'good' and 'bad' users alike. What a selfish prick, and you, all high and
>mighty because you handed over the money. Its not only the hackers that
>are whining, its everybody with half a brain in their head who know that
>once this whole malicious code thing becomes common practice, we're all
>screwed.
>
Lets see, I'm a shithead for being honest. Piracy seems to be a normal
part of your life not mine.Yes piracy is a problem and jeff is doing
something about it. He has raised the bar, so if you can not hack it
or crack it then buy it. As for this being a problem, even if everyone
started putting such codes in there software my money would be on the
hackers and crackers will eventualy learn to bust them. The real
point I'm making, stop crying about getting caught with your pants
down and either buy it or crack it. Also why did the developer of the
key generator post it before it was test and perfected. A rush to
fame?
Newman
>
> Then quantify losses for me. That's what no one, included you can seem to
> do. Sony is not suffering in the US do to piracy. In China, they are, just
> like all software publishers do. But even that still exists, and if you
> read how "well" they enforce the laws there, even under strong international
> pressure, you would realize that there IS no problem, even in a market where
> you can walk into a place as easy as you can Wal-Mart, and buy all the
> latest for under $10 a disc.
Actually, about $3.50 a disc (US dollars). And thats all most of
Miscro$hits (tm) software is worth.
> Part of this is China's own intentions to prosecute, but it also represents
> a lack of US pressure to really do anything.
No no no, the US has done MORE than it can. If it (once again) threatens
sanctions, China will just (once again) look to Europe for trading
partners, and the US will (once again, like with the failed US$1
billion subway contract that France ended up getting) lose out. The US
has done a lot, but as long as the US needs China more than China needs
the US, piracy will continue aboveground.
AdaptecCD-R (Deirdre' Straughan)
curious doug wrote:
>
> How was the vacation?
Excellent! Thanks for asking.
AdaptecCD-R (Deirdre' Straughan)
Jamie wrote:
>
> AdaptecCD-R (Deirdre' Straughan) wrote:
> > Jeff's software costs $69, our Easy CD Creator costs $99. I don't think you can
> > call those prices deterrents to buying, especially considering that your
> > hypothetical kid went out and bought a CD recorder, and presumably isn't
> > stealing the blanks he's recording to. (I dunno, maybe he's a shoplifter, too.)
>
> The flaw in this logic is that the hypothetical kid's parents bought the
> CD recorder.
And it's their responsibility to know what their kid is doing with it.
> This kid has no job and an allowance of 20 bucks a week.
> He copies playstation games and/or PC games from his friends, which his
> parents bought. Truly, it is hard to argue that this form of piracy
> really costs the industry a lot of money. Not many of these would have
> translated into actual sales in the absence of copying.
It probably doesn't cost the industry a lot of money, because I am willing to
bet that at least some pricing decisions are made based on "we're bound to lose
x% to piracy," particularly among game makers. The consumer ends up paying for
it. A vicious circle which little Johnny is only helping to perpetuate.
> Estimating the number of illegal copies in existance is
> far, far removed from the _actual_ number of lost sales. The logic that
> (1) illegal copy = (1) lost sale is completely flawed.
Agreed. But I never made any claims about how many billions anyone is losing.
It's probably very difficult to estimate, especially in the context of the
Internet.
> In the case of games, much of the piracy comes from kids who simply
> wouldn't have the money to buy them. Their parents sure as hell
> wouldn't buy them racks of $49 game progams. That's not to say this
> type of piracy is without cost to society - think of the millions of
> wasted education dollars! I bet average test scores would go way up if
> there was no piracy of video games. ;-)
So you're saying "He's a kid and can't afford it, he'd never buy it anyway, so
we should just look the other way when he steals it." ?? How does that logic
apply to, say, the kid who wants to drive a Porsche?
Sure, in the case of software you can make the argument that the software
company isn't really losing anything because there are no tangible physical
goods involved. But the implications for public morals are... interesting. "If
you can't afford it, just steal it, it's okay." Is that how you want to raise
your kids? It sure isn't how I want to raise mine.
> This is where I believe 95% of *actual* revenues are lost. Although the
> absence of a manual doesn't necessarily indicate the absence of a
> license. Most companies negotiate licensing agreements with software
> companies which don't include manuals. Maybe not in 1986, but when we
> used WordPerfect in my corporate life of old, we didn't have manuals but
> were actually licensed. But that's not the point - this happens, and
> these situations are *really* where the anti-piracy folks should be
> focusing their efforts.
Currently, that's where SPA seems to be focusing its efforts almost exclusively.
But I think that all of us in the online community have a responsibility to make
the Internet a cleaner place. And I think we'd better do it on our own
initiative before governments get interested in cleaning up our act for us --
with all the implications that *that* has for free speech etc. We need to police
ourselves, but it's going to take a strong moral stance by a lot of people
online to make it work.
> For these reasons, I believe that shutting down every "warez" channel on
> earth would improve sales only slightly. By and large, those people
> just aren't potential customers; and the biggest thieves won't be found
> there at all.
I can't even begin to be sure about this one way or the other, since it's
practically impossible to know how many people really do use warez as a way to
try before buying, how many would or would not ever pay for the software they
pirate, etc. etc. I'd certainly be interested to see some sort of objective
survey and study done on the matter, but clearly the computer industry is not
objective on the topic.
I would advocate closing down the Warez groups because they support online
theft, pure and simple. I don't think we need to tolerate, let alone encourage,
that kind of behavior, and we surely don't need to teach our kids that it's
okay. On the Internet or anywhere else.
AdaptecCD-R (Deirdre' Straughan)
Gambler wrote:
>
> On Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:13:20 -0800, "AdaptecCD-R (Deirdre' Straughan)"
> <adapt...@wnt.dc.lsoft.com> was heard to mutter:
> presumably if you bought a recorder, you're going to use it
> >one way or the other.
> >
> version of one or more of the packages, the user does have something
> to write with. The companies get their financial rewards, albiet not
> at full retail, and the end user gets software to record with, usually
> for a few $$ more than a bare drive.
Very true, and if what you got with the recorder works for you, by all means
keep using it. My fight is not to encourage everyone to upgrade (well, if you
want to... <grin>), but against those who figure that they're entitled to
whatever upgrade they want for *free*.
Nuno Neves
>
>So you're saying "He's a kid and can't afford it, he'd never buy it anyway, so
>we should just look the other way when he steals it." ?? How does that logic
>apply to, say, the kid who wants to drive a Porsche?
That is so old.
You can't replicate a Porsche and leave the original at the spot. :)
Nuno Neves (Lisbon,West of Europe)
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Jakar
It seems that most of you, CDRWIN included, keep forgetting about the REAL
cause of software piracy. The fact that every software developer thinks
he has a god given right to millions of $ just because!
Software is way too expensive!
You know damn well, if the software was reasonably priced, you would
kill 80% (just a guess) of the piracy.
You also know that if there was a way to see it, feel it, test it,
before buying, that would help too.
I really like the idea of time-limited, full versions. If I really like
it, can use, then I send in the 15$ and get a dl of all the docs, free.
Trouble is, software makers are so greedy, they all want to be Billy
Gates, that they encourage the very thing they hate most, piracy!
Think about it....when copper hit X amount of $ a pound, didn't it start
disappearing all over? When aluminum goes up, all those cans disappear
too! Its called "Price Point". What the customer is willing to spend.
I guarantee you, if you sell a full, no buggy version of CDRWIN for
around 14-29$, probably 19.95$, you couldn't keep them on the shelves, and
there would be practically NO piracy! You would make up with quantity, what
you lost, and would probably still be able to buy your 50 million$ yacht.
Dennis L
>never had a problem with my regestered version of cdrwin and if it
>realy is a peice of crap why all the bullsh* post about it. I find it
>realy funny that people who are breaking the law and trying to steal
>software and are suposed to be elite are crying like a bunch of
My legal copy has never fucken up on me either. I think it says something about
the software when everyone just *has* to have it.
Why would you *have* to own a piece of 'shit' ??
** To respond to me via email, remove the x's from primenet **
Dennis L
>ROTFL!!! I owned a Commodore 64 and Amiga for years and I can assure
>you, without question, that COMMODORE killed them! Gawd! That company
>came up with a great piece of hardware in the Amiga, and a wonderful OS
>that was so buggy you couldn't work for an hour without a crash. They
>acted as if popular media and software support wasn't important to the
>success of their machine. And then, just when it seemed as if it might
>catch on, they let the hardware become obsolete as run-of-the-mill PCs
>and Macs easily outperformed them in their strong suits.
>
>The pirates killed them! Ha hahahahha....
Find me a person who owns an Amiga or C64 that does NOT have tons of pirated
software.
When 3rd party support quits making software due to poor sales, the system goes
too.
Minotaur
Everyone! pirates. Piracy has NOTHING to do with a machines death, I know
most people would rather
rush out & buy the original if its a worth while game/program to purchase(as
with pirated games all the movies etc are riped from the pirated release
unless you buy copyed CDR's etc). Point is without getting into a huge
pointless software piracy debate is, those who can afford will buy those who
can't won't, also many will pirate to try out the game/program as most
titles are crap & over hyped in the press(mostly games). Commodore killed
the Amiga & anyone who knows, knows thats the truth. l8'r Tony *8)
Dennis L wrote in message <3545a6ee...@news.primenet.com>...
@sprynet.com curious doug
> > How was the vacation?
>
> Excellent! Thanks for asking.
Great. Now that you're back to work. I got a question,
Is there a way to get DirectCD to default to 6X read
speed? Sometimes when I load it I get 2X, sometimes
6X. I would like for it to always load at 6X so I dont
have to click the icons to change it. I could not find
a .ini file, so I am curious if there is a way to do
this. Thanks.
Jamie
AdaptecCD-R (Deirdre' Straughan) wrote:
> And it's their responsibility to know what their kid is doing with it.
True. But it's a pretty tough job; especially when a lot of kids
understand the computer better than their parents.
> It probably doesn't cost the industry a lot of money, because I am willing to
> bet that at least some pricing decisions are made based on "we're bound to lose
> x% to piracy," particularly among game makers. The consumer ends up paying for
> it. A vicious circle which little Johnny is only helping to perpetuate.
It is an interesting situation. I assume that there must be a lot of
supply and demand economics that go into the price point. For example I
buy about one game per year. (I actually do like games quite a bit; but
I just don't have enough time to play them!) But for a buyer such as
myself the price doesn't matter much because I buy so infrequently. But
for the real target audience; I might think that you'd do a lot better
selling games for $25 instead of $50 --- maybe even more than twice as
well. Because $25 is kinda not that much money. But $50 is kinda a lot
of money. But I digresss...
> So you're saying "He's a kid and can't afford it, he'd never buy it anyway, so
> we should just look the other way when he steals it." ?? How does that logic
> apply to, say, the kid who wants to drive a Porsche?
That's not what I'm saying - wrong is still wrong. I'm just trying to
argue that the losses to the industry (particularly the gaming industry)
are not as substantial as they might have us believe. I make this
statement without a value judgement one way or the other attached.
> Sure, in the case of software you can make the argument that the software
> company isn't really losing anything because there are no tangible physical
> goods involved. But the implications for public morals are... interesting. "If
> you can't afford it, just steal it, it's okay." Is that how you want to raise
> your kids? It sure isn't how I want to raise mine.
I agree. I just think it's a very difficult area for most parents.
They probably don't understand half of what their kids are doing. I know
mine didn't when I was a kid (in the *first* generation of computer
geeks), they were just worried that I would turn into a robot and did
everything possible to tear me away from the machine ;-)
Anyway, I've already decided I'm going to encourage my kids to fix cars
instead of play with computers. (You want to talk about thieves...)
[snip]...
> I can't even begin to be sure about this one way or the other, since it's
> practically impossible to know how many people really do use warez as a way to
> try before buying, how many would or would not ever pay for the software they
> pirate, etc. etc. I'd certainly be interested to see some sort of objective
> survey and study done on the matter, but clearly the computer industry is not
> objective on the topic.
It's a strange issue. Some research really would be useful. Although
it seems unlikely, it is certainly possible that the revenue due to
people "trying before buying" offsets revenue lost to piracy. But while
you could objectively ask folks if they've ever bought a package after
using a pirate copy; it would be harder to ask people if they've ever
*not* bought something because a pirate copy was available. I guess a
better question would be, have you ever bought something because a
pirate copy was *not* available! Anyway this would be an interesting
study.
> I would advocate closing down the Warez groups because they support online
> theft, pure and simple. I don't think we need to tolerate, let alone encourage,
> that kind of behavior, and we surely don't need to teach our kids that it's
> okay. On the Internet or anywhere else.
Agreed.
Jamie
AdaptecCD-R (Deirdre' Straughan)
As far as I know, DirectCD shouldn't have any effect on your read speed. ???
--
AdaptecCD-R (Deirdre' Straughan)
Jakar wrote:
>
> It seems that most of you, CDRWIN included, keep forgetting about the REAL
> cause of software piracy. The fact that every software developer thinks
> he has a god given right to millions of $ just because!
> Software is way too expensive!
> You know damn well, if the software was reasonably priced, you would
> kill 80% (just a guess) of the piracy.
It's hard to say what's a reasonable price, but in my experience, prices are not
set as high as the market will possibly bear. Developing software is not cheap,
however, especially when you get into the commercial arena with all the support
requirements that that entails. Considering today's commercial software prices
compared with what average prices were a few years ago, I hardly think anyone's
got much to complain about.
AdaptecCD-R (Deirdre' Straughan)
Jamie wrote:
>
> AdaptecCD-R (Deirdre' Straughan) wrote:
> > And it's their responsibility to know what their kid is doing with it.
>
> True. But it's a pretty tough job; especially when a lot of kids
> understand the computer better than their parents.
Maybe it's easy for me to say because I am not yet the mother of a teenager, but
it seems to me that parents can ask the same kinds of questions about computers
as they would about cars and friends: Who are you hanging out with? What kinds
of things do you do together? Just where do you think you're going in the family
car with that sixpack?
It's partly a matter of educating the public, parents included. Just because you
_can_ do it doesn't mean you should or that it's legal. Your kid _can_ drive a
car 150 mph down a suburban street. Surely as a responsible parent you've
(theoretical "you" in this case) made it clear that he shouldn't? Of course the
laws against speeding are familiar to most parents. We now have to explain what
are and are not valid uses of the Internet (and CD recorders, for that matter).
David Van Dromme
On 22 Mar 1998 17:06:01 -0700, dl...@xprimenetx.com (Dennis L) wrote:
>Find me a person who owns an Amiga or C64 that does NOT have tons of pirated
>software.
Yes, Amiga died before its time. C64 has lived it out a bit longer.
>When 3rd party support quits making software due to poor sales, the system goes
>too.
In the case of the C64, software companies simply felt the need to
stop dealing with this "outdated" technology and bit by bit moved onto
the Amiga and later (faster) to the PC and console-market.
Today many hobbyists worldwide are still making software for c64 and
Amiga, but without the "support" (wondeirng if they ever really had
it....) of the mothercompany Commodore - which got bankrupt after
trying to take a (failed) attempt in the PC market and investing too
much money in it without a really good marketing-strategy.
(their PCs weren't -that- bad at all).
Dave Wright
>>> David Van Dromme <stor...@skynet.be> wrote:
» Yes, Amiga died before its time.
That would be news to Gateway 2000, its owners. And India's government, which
recently ordered hundreds of thousands of them from Gateway. And the makers of
Wonder TV in eastern Asia, who've based their interactive computer TV box on the
Amiga and are selling millions of them. And the makers of Quake, who are
porting it to the Amiga. And the makers of Myst, who have ported it. And the
companies who are licensing the Amiga OS for clones, Amigas on cards for Intel
machines, and so on. The Amiga dances very well for a corpse.
--
:Dave Wright * Gentaur on FurryMUCK
DUELING MODEMS * http://www.dm.net * news://news.dm.net:120
Head Sysop, BESTIARIA Furry Forum & AH!LOGY Science and Research Forum
http://beastie.dm.net * news://news.dm.net:120/dm.ahlogy.*
--
At every step the child should be allowed to meet the real experiences of
life; the thorns should never be plucked from the roses. --Ellen Key
Ray Akey
mark wrote in message <351515d4.13152300@news>...
>On Sat, 21 Mar 1998 23:30:54 +1000, Newman
><n154...@sparrow.qut.edu.au> wrote:
>>Your the shithead paying good money to someone who can't deal with a
>>normal part of computer life such as piracy... its not only Jeff's
>>problem, its every programmers problem. Thats why he has no right to
>Lets see, I'm a shithead for being honest. Piracy seems to be a normal
No, but you'll be the one screaming loudest when a legit installation
(or a missing file due to a family member accidentally putting your key into
the recycle bin) suddenly goes awry.
Condoning programmer practices like the one used in this case is like
inviting trojan/virus coders to your system with open arms.
>part of your life not mine.Yes piracy is a problem and jeff is doing
>something about it. He has raised the bar, so if you can not hack it
>or crack it then buy it. As for this being a problem, even if everyone
>started putting such codes in there software my money would be on the
>hackers and crackers will eventualy learn to bust them. The real
Speaking as a software developer, I can tell you that Jeff's approach is
not only potentially harmful to someone who just comes upon the program
normally, via "friends trading software" (not necesarily being pirates..)
but it is also harmful to LEGIT owners of the software ... what with
Windows 95 screwing up and corrupting registry entries etc.
This type of "piracy prevention" is the type of thing that makes people
nervous about programs that DO NOT do this type of thing. I wouldn't touch
software with trojan measures like this with a 10-foot pole -- LEGIT or
otherwise!
Gavan Moran
On Thu, 19 Mar 1998 09:16:56 -0500, Jamie <ja...@treworgy.com> wrote:
>ROTFL!!! I owned a Commodore 64 and Amiga for years and I can assure
>you, without question, that COMMODORE killed them! Gawd! That company
>had the absolute worst marketing department on the planet earth. They
>came up with a great piece of hardware in the Amiga, and a wonderful OS
>that was so buggy you couldn't work for an hour without a crash. They
>acted as if popular media and software support wasn't important to the
>success of their machine. And then, just when it seemed as if it might
>catch on, they let the hardware become obsolete as run-of-the-mill PCs
>and Macs easily outperformed them in their strong suits.
>
>The pirates killed them! Ha hahahahha....
Commodore played a VERY MAJOR part in the demise of the Amiga, sure. But
the fact remains that it *could* have survived if widespread piracy hadn't
delivered the death blow.
A market as large as the PC can 'support' a certain level of piracy. But
when the Amiga market stopped expanding due to dimwitted Commodore execs
policies, software piracy meant that the games writers jumped ship for the PC
a lot sooner than they needed to.
The Amiga 'died' for all intents and purposes, once new software
availability fell below a certain level. It was piracy that put the final
nail in the coffin.
Gavan
--
email: gmo...@nyx.net <-preferred
or Gavan_...@ccm.ir.intel.com
DISCLAIMER: I work for Intel, but I don't speak for Intel
Ray Akey
Ray Akey
Dennis L wrote in message <3545a6ee...@news.primenet.com>...
>>ROTFL!!! I owned a Commodore 64 and Amiga for years and I can assure
>>you, without question, that COMMODORE killed them! Gawd! That company
Commodore DID kill them but, they aren't completely dead. Trust me..
>>came up with a great piece of hardware in the Amiga, and a wonderful OS
>>that was so buggy you couldn't work for an hour without a crash. They
Bzzt! Wrong. I still develop software for the Amiga and also for the
PC. I'll tell you this much.. My Amiga stays up and running free of
lockups and crashes far longer than the Wintel PC. Perhaps you ran so much
pirated software that you got trojans, viruses and bad cracks, hmm?
>>acted as if popular media and software support wasn't important to the
>>success of their machine. And then, just when it seemed as if it might
Funny.. My amiga does multimedia just as good as the PC. Sure, it had
8-bit sound right out of the box, but that doesn't mean a 16-bit audio card
wouldn't do it justice... Not to mention a decent video card like the
Retina or Picasso..
>>catch on, they let the hardware become obsolete as run-of-the-mill PCs
>>and Macs easily outperformed them in their strong suits.
>>
>>The pirates killed them! Ha hahahahha....
>
>Find me a person who owns an Amiga or C64 that does NOT have tons of
pirated
>software.
(raises hand) .. I had SOME pirate software but nothing more than I
could USE.
>When 3rd party support quits making software due to poor sales, the system
goes
>too.
There is a lot of 3rd party Amiga support. Hit
http://www.cucug,org/amiga.html or just http://www.cucug.org and lok for the
Amiga Web directory. you'll be quite surprised how many freeware, shareware
and commercial Amiga software developers there are, still .. and since
GATEWAY 2000 owns the amiga technology now, don't be surprised if the PCs
old nemesis returns. Maybe not to outsource or take it down a peg, it will
at least compete. :)
..and yes, the aniga can even burn CDs.. WOW eh? (sarc)
...it's funny what people say when they don't have the slightest clue about
current events..
Eric B.
Dave Wright wrote in message <1071.386T19...@dm.net>...
>>>> David Van Dromme <stor...@skynet.be> wrote:
> » Yes, Amiga died before its time.
>
>That would be news to Gateway 2000, its owners. And India's government,
which
>recently ordered hundreds of thousands of them from Gateway. And the
makers of
>Wonder TV in eastern Asia, who've based their interactive computer TV box
on the
>Amiga and are selling millions of them.
Maybe you can buy Amiga software in India hahaha
And the makers of Quake, who are
>porting it to the Amiga. And the makers of Myst, who have ported it. And
the
>companies who are licensing the Amiga OS for clones, Amigas on cards for
Intel
>machines, and so on. The Amiga dances very well for a corpse.
Yea, and MS is doing Windows for Amiga right?
Funny, I haven't seen an Amiga software section in a single store in like 5
years. Amiga owners tend to exaggerate all the software they have "coming
soon" so as not to be labeled as the goobers they are.
I have a 1962 jukebox I can still get "software" (45's) for. You don't see
me in rec.audio.pro saying how vinyl technology is not dead. Your Amiga is a
antique like my jukebox. Deal with it.
Michael E. Miller
Gavan Moran wrote:
> >The pirates killed them! Ha hahahahha....
>
> Commodore played a VERY MAJOR part in the demise of the Amiga, sure. But
> the fact remains that it *could* have survived if widespread piracy hadn't
> delivered the death blow.
I know five people who bought Amiga's purely because they could pirate games off
friends, and would not have bought more than two titles. I know another ten that
bought Amiga's mostly for games, and partly for other things.
If it wasn't for piracy, these people would probably have stuck with the consoles,
and traded games anyway.
The Amiga was the ultimate games machine of its time, no question. And if the
games weren't free, it wouldn't have been the no.1 selling home computer.
--
Michael E. Miller
Sydney, Australia
CM...@whom.co.uk
In article <6fajni$n...@camel12.mindspring.com>,
"Eric B." <nycguy@*mindspring.com> wrote:
> Your Amiga is a antique like my jukebox. Deal with it.
I swapped from my 68040 Amiga a year ago, "Regrets I had a few ..."
Now I can backup the CD+Gs I have but I still need the CD32 to play them :-?
CMoS, http://www.whom.co.uk
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Gavan Moran
>I know five people who bought Amiga's purely because they could pirate games off
>friends, and would not have bought more than two titles. I know another ten that
>bought Amiga's mostly for games, and partly for other things.
>
>If it wasn't for piracy, these people would probably have stuck with the consoles,
>and traded games anyway.
From the point of view of generating software sales, their purchase of the
Amiga was meaningless. In fact, since they were actively pirating games they
probably hurt software (sales if they had any impact all).
Without software sales - no one makes software - once no one makes
software, the platform dies.
>The Amiga was the ultimate games machine of its time, no question. And if the
>games weren't free, it wouldn't have been the no.1 selling home computer.
No point being the #1 seller when no-one was buying the software. Once
companies saw a better market they jumped ship and the Amiga died.
The fact that the Amiga was once a top seller means nothing - as soon as
the software dried up no-one wanted to own the hardware. If the Amiga had
sold only half as many units but generated 2x the software sales it would most
probably have had a longer life and an even better library of games. It might
even still be alive today.
C.H.Skilbeck
All I can say is fair play - CDRWin is cheaper and better compared to most
other
CD Writing software (although can we please have CR585 reader support!?),
and
anyone downloading dodgy pirate wares should look out for themselves...
It sprayed files all over my hard disk, everyone laughed at me, I felt silly
for a while,
deleted them all, and figured I deserved it.....
John Beardmore
In article <6evcv0$6...@mercury.galstar.com>, Paul Creamer
<cre...@galstar.com> writes
>Actually what killed the AMIGA was lack of SOFTWARE outside the
>GAMES & VIDEO area....
>
>Ie; A former (as of Summer 97) longtime AMIGA owner...
>
>Though that 25mhz 68030 AMIGA 3000 downloaded files using the same
>33.6 modem ...much quicker than the PC ever could ..PC being 200mhz...
Hmmm. I bet a 10 MHz 286 could do it under DOS !
Or a Z80 with a Zilog duart in IM2. Fast serial comms isn't a big deal;
it's just that windows was terrible at it !
Cheers, J/.
--
John Beardmore
John Beardmore
In article <6eqf9k$l8$1...@usenet48.supernews.com>, Smith
<NOSPAMg...@media-net.net> writes
> It's not
>something quantifiable like a television or bar of gold, becuase there's no
>cost degredation to the production company. 12 year old Billy who's using
>Photoshop to electronicly undress a picture of Sandra Bullock is not a
>customer, and would have never been one. And him using the software does
>nothing to Adobe. In fact, it helps them...
Indeed, because it stops him buying from Adobes cheaper competitors.
>wawawawhat?!?!? That's right. It helps it become a standard. The more
>users a software has, either regged or "stolen", is great for a company
>becuase standards develop, as does demand. Word of mouth also makes an
>impression that millions in advertising could never achieve -- and it's for
>free.
>I'll go so far as to say that the losses incurred from potential customers
>whom actually opted to use a pirated copy are FAR LESS than the advantage of
>additional 1000's of users working paths for the comanies. It's applies for
>everyone.
>
>And you know what, the big boys know this, and that's why they don't do
>anything about it. Microsoft knows, and they don't care -- becuase they're
>smart. The SPA is a great front for them letting you know that "this is
>bad", but it's a proverbial DARE program in it's lack of enforcement and
>ability. They know it doesn't work, and that's exactly what it's there for.
>To show of a failing effort, and to show a little human victim in the
>Microsoft machine.
:) Maybe.
J/.
--
John Beardmore
John Beardmore
In article <3513285c...@news.mindspring.com>, Gambler
<gam...@whoisme.com> writes
>Wrong............Since most of the cdr units are offered with an oem
>version of one or more of the packages, the user does have something
>to write with. The companies get their financial rewards, albiet not
>at full retail, and the end user gets software to record with, usually
>for a few $$ more than a bare drive.
>
>Ofr course, companies try to entice the end user to purchase new
>"flagships" in order to fatten up their balance sheets........
Yup. The bugs in the OEM versions can be terrible !
>but then
>that is the free enterprise system. Until I see a package that I just
>have to have (which hasn't happened yet), I just say NO!
You'd be glad about that if you'd gone for the flagship ECDCD; the bugs
in the flagship versions can be terrible too !
John Beardmore
In article <35319956...@news.alt.net>, gor...@jungle.com writes
>Jeff, if you'd lower the price of the damb software maybe more people
>would use it.
>
>Many many, people are now getting cdrs, and
>wish to copy all sorts of stuff and will not be selling it, but at
>us 80$ , thats a lot of money to many people when one consideres the
>prices of the competition.
It was 69 USD when I purchased it yesterday.
Now Adaptecs ECDCD seems to be the brand leader. Look at their price of
99 USD and the bugs and features on offer. It seems to me Jeffs price
is perfectly reasonable when you think
a) about the competition
and
b) what the software is worth to you.
Bob Cardinali
On Wed, 25 Mar 1998 14:57:09 GMT,
Gavan_M_Moran@remove_this_to_reply.ccm.ir.intel.com (Gavan Moran)
wrote:
> No point being the #1 seller when no-one was buying the software. Once
>companies saw a better market they jumped ship and the Amiga died.
>
> The fact that the Amiga was once a top seller means nothing - as soon as
>the software dried up no-one wanted to own the hardware. If the Amiga had
>sold only half as many units but generated 2x the software sales it would most
>probably have had a longer life and an even better library of games. It might
>even still be alive today.
>
>Gavan
News to me that the Amiga was at one time a "#1 top seller". It was
popular with a niche, but certainly didn't outsell clones or Macs. I
personally believe it was Commodore's abysmal marketing that killed
the Ami, bless it's little heart. Had nothing to do with piracy. If
that were the case, I suppose you could say the C-64 was dead too as a
result? Since 90% of the Ami market migrated there from the C-64
platform? And when 32 bit Intels die their lonely death, I suppose the
lament will be that folks who pirated Jeff Arnold's software were
responsible. Heh...
Bob
Marc van Lierop
Eric B. wrote:
> Yea, and MS is doing Windows for Amiga right?
Indeed, if that is done, THEN THE AMIGA *IS* DEAD!
> Funny, I haven't seen an Amiga software section in a single store in like 5
> years. Amiga owners tend to exaggerate all the software they have "coming
> soon" so as not to be labeled as the goobers they are.
Maybe you are walking into the wrong stores!
> I have a 1962 jukebox I can still get "software" (45's) for. You don't see
> me in rec.audio.pro saying how vinyl technology is not dead. Your Amiga is a
> antique like my jukebox. Deal with it.
This sounds like a more normal reaction to me. I can live with this
argument.
Cheers,
<<marc>>
Ps. Don't want to start an PC/Amiga flame war again, but looks like it
is burning already anyway ;-)
Gavan Moran
On Wed, 25 Mar 1998 23:41:38 GMT, rcar...@mindspring.com (Bob Cardinali)
wrote:
>News to me that the Amiga was at one time a "#1 top seller". It was
>popular with a niche, but certainly didn't outsell clones or Macs.
It was a for a long time the top selling home computer in most parts of
Europe. There was loads of European written software for it as a result but
once the publishers realised how low the sales were due to piracy, they
jumped ship to the PC and then Amiga hardware sales just died off totally.
The US was of course a different story - it never really caught on.
>personally believe it was Commodore's abysmal marketing that killed
>the Ami, bless it's little heart. Had nothing to do with piracy.
C= incompentence played a big part in the Amigas demise - but saying it had
'nothing to do with piracy' is just plain wrong.
Gavan Moran
On Sun, 22 Mar 1998 19:51:22 GMT, uk...@hotmail.com (Jakar) wrote:
>It seems that most of you, CDRWIN included, keep forgetting about the REAL
>cause of software piracy. The fact that every software developer thinks
>he has a god given right to millions of $ just because!
> Software is way too expensive!
> You know damn well, if the software was reasonably priced, you would
>kill 80% (just a guess) of the piracy.
Rubbish - if you don't think a piece of sofware is reasonably priced then
simply don't buy it and DON'T STEAL IT.
I want a ferrari but have you seen the prices? I guess I'll just go and
steal one as the price isn't right for me........
Pirates think that paying ANYTHING is too much. I'm surprised they bother
paying for their hardware and don't try breaking into computer shops for it.
Too much work on their part, probably. They prefer someone else to do the
work so they can take the credit when they pirate it.
Robert Adamson
well said - a man amongst men!
--
Bob
**Views expressed are not necessarily those of Nortel**
Glen Zabriskie
In article <35193763...@news.supernews.com>, jedcl...@bigfoot.com wrote:
>On Wed, 25 Mar 1998 04:45:21 -0500, "Eric B." <nycguy@*mindspring.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Dave Wright wrote in message <1071.386T19...@dm.net>...
>>>>>> David Van Dromme <stor...@skynet.be> wrote:
>>> » Yes, Amiga died before its time.
>>>
>>>That would be news to Gateway 2000, its owners. And India's government,
>>which
>>>recently ordered hundreds of thousands of them from Gateway. And the
>>makers of
>>>Wonder TV in eastern Asia, who've based their interactive computer TV box
>>on the
>>>Amiga and are selling millions of them.
>>
>>Maybe you can buy Amiga software in India hahaha
>>
>> And the makers of Quake, who are
>>>porting it to the Amiga. And the makers of Myst, who have ported it. And
>>the
>>>companies who are licensing the Amiga OS for clones, Amigas on cards for
>>Intel
>>>machines, and so on. The Amiga dances very well for a corpse.
>>
>>
>>
>>years. Amiga owners tend to exaggerate all the software they have "coming
>>soon" so as not to be labeled as the goobers they are.
>>
>>me in rec.audio.pro saying how vinyl technology is not dead. Your Amiga is a
>>antique like my jukebox. Deal with it.
>>
>"obsolete" it definitely had BETTER tech in it than a new 333 PII.
>This machine was designed by the team that left Atari and made the
>"800" it built in separate ic's did 10 years ago what "MMX" still
>CAN'T do and Intel does not wan't you to know. So yes i'll agree it's
>dead and yes IMHO it was pirating that killed it. All the tv and movie
>people were using it due to it's advanced nature even over the
>"MAC's". and NO I don't own one and never did, my loyalty will always
>be to ATARI.
>
Oh shit i almost pissed my pants laughing at this one!!! Sure alot of video
production houses may have used it for prepress work , but the final work was
done on high end Macs with professional software. Nobody but you even care
who the hell designed the chipset, Whoopedy doo that Atari or its programmers
had anything to do with the amiga. Both are 6 feet under!!! Now the atari
people are making shit hard disks for the PC and amiga's in India, hmmm must
go good with curry?
> But no matter what the "ibm" pc's will win in the long run
>just because the "white shirts" or "suits" will always be "impressed"
>by the hoopla their own kind(other white shirts at MS) generate, you
>see they have lived so long in their own world of lies,exagerations,
>and misinformation they can't tell the difference anymore.
>
> And going by this rationale the Mac's are next even with the
>loan Gates gave them he's ego won't be filled until it's dead, and
>just like Cain&Able Gates won't be happy until IBM is also Dead. Look
>at how they have managed to scare every software house and business
>out there to stay away from OS2 or loose their(ms) support.
>
> Were I work we have a nationwide WAN based on OS2 whose up
>time is 99.99%, it runs circles around NT, and yet for all intent OS2
>is also dead mostly due to MS misinformation and threats
>
Chris Severance
On Wed, 25 Mar 1998 17:32:44 GMT, jedcl...@bigfoot.com wrote:
> You are right that it's dead. But WRONG about "antique" or
>"obsolete" it definitely had BETTER tech in it than a new 333 PII.
>This machine was designed by the team that left Atari and made the
>"800" it built in separate ic's did 10 years ago what "MMX" still
>CAN'T do and Intel does not wan't you to know.
Eh? What is it that the Atari 800 can do that MMX can't? I programmed
for those years ago and they were very fine but I'd still prefer a
333.
>So yes i'll agree it's
>dead and yes IMHO it was pirating that killed it.
The orignal poster was pretty clear that it's not dead some places
overseas. Sure, here in the US it's dead dead.
>All the tv and movie
>people were using it due to it's advanced nature even over the
>"MAC's". and NO I don't own one and never did,
It did very good for video but the manufacturers soon learned more
money was to be made hacking the hardware onto the PC bus instead of
the Amiga.
>my loyalty will always
>be to ATARI.
Me too, but I don't see what difference it makes.
> Were I work we have a nationwide WAN based on OS2 whose up
>time is 99.99%, it runs circles around NT, and yet for all intent OS2
>is also dead mostly due to MS misinformation and threats
I agree, OS2 is heads above the competition except it doesn't do what
the people want. Face it, Win95 is the only OS besides DOS that runs
all of our games. I'd like to run NT here but it would mean the loss
of a game machine. I ran OS2 for a bit but after finding how few games
run, bad fax support, and no peer-peer networking without the
"connect" version, I decided it wasn't ready for prime time. NT is the
same way. IMHO, unless Gates removes Multi-User (and many other
things), NT will never amount to anything. Computers need to work more
like toasters, not less.
severachAATTjac...@M.DOT.com
bkwiat...@hotmail.com
Hey Jeff,
I just stumbled across a page at:
http://www.mainstream.net/~jarnold/psxmod/psxmod.html
This looks a lot like the encouragement of piracy to me. If SONY
playstation game copies were meant to be played, modification of
the hardware wouldn't be necessary.
Sounds like you are throwing stones from within a glass house.
regards,
-bob
PlayStation Hardware Conversions
We offer the finest PlayStation conversion in the world!
High quality factory-like conversion.
Play import games and CD-R discs.
No disc "swapping" or other tricks required.
Properly handles multiple disc games.
Why is our conversion the best?
Don't trust your PlayStation conversion to "somebody in their basement
with a
soldering iron". We've seen other conversions... most of them are very
low quality
with poor/uncleaned solder joints and loose wires held to the board
with electrical
tape.
Our conversions are done by a professional circuit board assembly
house. We use
a special wire that is used by the industry to make factory-like
modifications to PC
boards. Both the conversion "chip" and the wire are semi-permanantly
bonded to
the PlayStation's circuit board (both can be removed without damaging
the board).
Pictures of our conversion work...
PSXBOARD.GIF (190K) or PSXBOARD.JPG (330K)
Price: $75.00 (includes shipping within the USA)
Payment can be made by check, money order, or COD (add $5).
No credit cards will be accepted.
NOTE: All units will be tested before and after the conversion. All
units that fail
the initial test will be returned unaltered.
You can contact me at...
Jeff Arnold
125 Indian Rock Road
Merrimack, NH
03054
On Tue, 17 Mar 1998 20:26:05 -0800, Jeff Arnold
<jar...@mainstream.net> wrote:
>March 17, 1998
>
>
>CDRWIN, PIRACY, AND WAREZ...
>
>
>It has come to my attention that many people are not interested in
>doing anything about software piracy on the Internet. While I have
>received many Email messages supporting my stance against piracy, I
>have also received just as many messages against it.
Ian Donen
Just to add fuel to the fire of this off-topic post, the following was on
BootNet (www.bootnet.com) recently:
German hardware manufacturer Phase 5 Digital Products will try to breath new
life into the corpse of Amiga when it ships several boxes based on the Amiga
O/S 3.1 later this year.
Dubbed the pre\box, the machines will shove four PowerPC's into an ATX form
factor case, with PCI, 100MHz SDRAM, a 100MHz system bus, and a "special
slot" that will plug a Voodoo2-based card into the 8MB onboard graphics
chip. An Ultra-Wide SCSI II controller and 100Mbit Ethernet network card
will be integrated, as well as support for USB, serial, parallel and E-IDE
peripherals.
Suggested retail pricing on a pre/box outfitted with four 200MHz PPC604e
sans CD-ROM, RAM and hard drive is $1,995. Dump in quad 250MHz PPC604r's and
the price skips to $2,495. For a system with 300MHz PPC604r's the cost will
be $3,395 and for PPC750 at 300MHz with 1MB of backside cache, the price
hits $4,995.
What's that? You don't remember the Amiga? Shame on you. That plucky
Commodore computer is credited by many as kick-starting multimedia in the
1980s. And after years of floating free and declining market share,
German-based Amiga International was purchased by Gateway 2000 early last
year. Unfortunately, Gateway hasn't announced any plans for new Amiga
O/S-based machines. Yet.
--------------------
Phoenix
Which brings to mind the adage "if the show fits...."
P
Stefan
>>It seems that most of you, CDRWIN included, keep forgetting about the REAL
>>cause of software piracy. The fact that every software developer thinks
>>he has a god given right to millions of $ just because!
>> Software is way too expensive!
>> You know damn well, if the software was reasonably priced, you would
>>kill 80% (just a guess) of the piracy.
>
>
> Rubbish - if you don't think a piece of sofware is reasonably priced then
>simply don't buy it and DON'T STEAL IT.
Sometimes I think I'm alone in the world.. Yes, I freely admit I
pirated some games. Quake 1. Quake 2. Red Alert. Warcraft 2. Those are
games I really liked and I bought them after I'd played them. Sure I
could have bought them in the first place, but if I wait a couple
months I see that it's a good product from reviews and also save a
couple bucks as the price goes down (Spare me that argument, it's only
the store that loses a few bucks there, and with the prices they
charge they can afford to lose it).
> I want a ferrari but have you seen the prices? I guess I'll just go and
>steal one as the price isn't right for me........
That's totally different. Nobody loses out if you copy a piece of
software. If you have a cool watch and I have a cloning machine, and I
pop out a replica of that watch, is that stealing? Apparently so, but
if I don't copy that watch I won't buy it because it's expensive. I'll
just live without it.
> Pirates think that paying ANYTHING is too much. I'm surprised they bother
>paying for their hardware and don't try breaking into computer shops for it.
>Too much work on their part, probably. They prefer someone else to do the
>work so they can take the credit when they pirate it.
All generalizations are false. Give me a break. Did you see MDK? That
sold for $75 up here. It's a piece of crap.. After that, it's try
before I buy.
Joshua McMinn
>That's totally different. Nobody loses out if you copy a piece of
>software. If you have a cool watch and I have a cloning machine, and I
>pop out a replica of that watch, is that stealing? Apparently so, but
>if I don't copy that watch I won't buy it because it's expensive. I'll
>just live without it.
You're wrong here. People do lose out when you copy software. Ok, maybe
in *your* case you'd have just lived without if you didn't copy it, but
there ARE a good number of people that end up with copied games that would
have bought the game if they hadn't gotten the "free" copy, and this is
lost money for both the developers and the retailers. In alot of cases
the higher prices you pay at the stores are not for your copy of the
program alone, but for the 5 copies of it that get pirated. Admittedly
it's a chicken/egg cycle, but there is harm in pirating games.
-Josh
Digital-Imager
Stefan wrote in message <353634f7...@news.intergate.bc.ca>...
>>>It seems that most of you, CDRWIN included, keep forgetting about the
REAL
>>>cause of software piracy. The fact that every software developer thinks
>>>he has a god given right to millions of $ just because!
>>> Software is way too expensive!
>>> You know damn well, if the software was reasonably priced, you would
>>>kill 80% (just a guess) of the piracy.
While I guess everyones steals knowingly or not, sometimes I try before I
buy and not shareware, I must admit, I have bought alot of programs and alot
were junk! What I dont understand, even if you buy it, it still is not
yours. You are only licensed to use it not own it. So really, I dont think
stealing is an appropriate word.
While I do support everyone to make a living, there always seems to be a
time were a program hasnt screwed my machine up and a few of them to the
point of reinstalling the whole damn thing. Why wont the warranty of the
license accept responsibily of this or possibly burning out my video card,
my hard drive etc.
I would feel more secure if the license agreement would honor any
malfunction of my PC due to bad programming. Hey that would be nice. Even
how about lettting me keep the program even if the majority of license do
expire in 25 years. True, the computer world will change dramatically in 25
years but $1.00 is still $1.00
Dont know, but just my $.02.
John Beardmore
In article <6h3f6l$p...@bolivia.earthlink.net>, Digital-Imager
<Digita...@hotmail.com> writes
>While I guess everyones steals knowingly or not, sometimes I try before I
>buy and not shareware, I must admit, I have bought alot of programs and alot
>were junk! What I dont understand, even if you buy it, it still is not
>yours. You are only licensed to use it not own it. So really, I dont think
>stealing is an appropriate word.
Denial of income might be theft. Non payment of rental might be seen as
theft. I think a court would laugh at you !
>While I do support everyone to make a living, there always seems to be a
>time were a program hasnt screwed my machine up and a few of them to the
>point of reinstalling the whole damn thing. Why wont the warranty of the
>license accept responsibily of this or possibly burning out my video card,
>my hard drive etc.
Read the warranty and understand the nature of the contract. You get
what you pay for; the more you pay, the more support you can have.
You don't seem to be somebody who like to pay much; you don't get much
support !
>I would feel more secure if the license agreement would honor any
>malfunction of my PC due to bad programming. Hey that would be nice.
You'd have to prove it of course ! If you could prove it, you might be
able to redress in the courts now.
> Even
>how about lettting me keep the program even if the majority of license do
>expire in 25 years.
??
> True, the computer world will change dramatically in 25
>years
True.
> but $1.00 is still $1.00
True. So ?
>Dont know,
True.
> but just my $.02.
Indded.
J/.
--
John Beardmore
Svend Svin
Go kill yourself
John Beardmore wrote in message ...
John Beardmore
In article <6hl6ok$b2k$1...@dalen.get2net.dk>, Svend Svin
<svend...@bigfoot.com> writes
>Go kill yourself
No thanks ! Life is too short !