Mini rant - What are they teaching our kids?
Uncle Sky
stated that high school kids in AZ were given a test made up of ten
questions selected at random from the US Citizenship Test. Something like
7% passed. They listed the questions. I admit I only got eight right but
geeeez. Passing was 60%. Here they are. Do you think they are so hard?
1. What is the supreme law of the land?
2. What do we call the first ten ammendments of the U.S. Constitution?
3. What are the two parts of the U.S. Congress?
4.How many justices are on the Supreme Court?
5. Who wrote the Declaration Of Independence?
6. What ocean is on the east coast of the U.S.?
7. What are the two major political parties in the United States?
8. We elect a U.S. Senator for how many years?
9. Who was the first president?
10. Who is in charge of the executive branch?
The full report that the story was based on is at:
http://www.goldwaterinstitute.org
--
Uncle Sky
ka.mi...@gmail.com
Oooh, a quiz!
1. The Constitution.
2. The Bill of Rights
3. The House of Representatives and The Senate
4. Nine.
5. Thomas Jefferson.
6. The Atlantic, unless you're talking about Hawai'i, then the
Pacific.
7. The Democratic Party and The Republican Party.
8. Six years.
9. George Washington.
10. Barack Hussein Obama, the President of the United States.
How'd I do?
Captain Jack
news:20090702030613.489$N...@newsreader.com:
Well *I* don't think they're that hard (got 8 out of 10), but then, I'd
be willing to wager we paid attention in school.
They're probably teaching this stuff, Sky, but most of the kids in the
classroom couldn't give a damn about learning it- they don't see a need
to know this stuff so they ignore it. You can't teach someone who's not
willing to put out the effort to learn.
The Cap'n
Uncle Sky
Ten out of ten. You were a bit more specific on #10 than was expected but
were correct. The question was meant to be more general as were the others.
The expected answer is "The President".
--
Uncle Sky
Uncle Sky
I'm sure you're right. I must also note that I have seen "on the street"
interviews that asked adults similar questions that got really dumb answers
or none at all.
--
Uncle Sky
Canth
wrote:
FWIW, my Oz take:
1 Constitution [Some would say The GUN]
2 Don't Know - didn't realise they were named separately.
3 Senate & House of Representatives [See I paid attention during
the West Wing]
4 ISTR 9 for full bench decisions.
5 Jefferson
6 Atlantic [Hawaii & Alaska could dispute this.]
7 Republican & Democrat
8 6 [See above - wasn't West Wing marvelous]
9 Washington. ISTR that the Constitutional commission took as
their brief writing a constitution which would induce Washington to
want to be President. After all, there was a real expectation that he
would become King George I of the USA [as a cadet member of the
powerful De Washington family in UK, he wasn't all that far from the
British Throne.].
10 President of the USA [but if the machinations of the West Wing
are to be believed, de facto power is in the hands of the Secretary of
mumble mumble you know the guy that controls all communication from
the WW to the Prez.]
How do I score?
AS! ds++:+++ a++ c+++ p++ t+ f-- S+ p+ e++ h++ r++ n++ i+ P+ m++ M
ka.mi...@gmail.com
To be fair, a lot of them don't need to know this stuff.
Also, all of it is fairly easy to look up (although that's not
why I managed to score as well as I did - I'm a bit of a
political junkie).
For example, if the question was "name the nine Supreme
Court Justices", and it was an assignment instead of a test,
I'd bet that kids today would have a heck of an easier time
answering than kids twenty years ago.
Incidentally, and this is from memory:
Chief Roberts, Alito, Ginsberg, Thomas, Souter, Kennedy,
Scalia. I'm drawing a blank on the other two.
Magus Firecow.
MargW
> I saw an article in the local paper today that really makes me wonder. It
> stated that high school kids in AZ were given a test made up of ten
> questions selected at random from the US Citizenship Test. Something like
> 7% passed. They listed the questions. I admit I only got eight right but
> geeeez. Passing was 60%. Here they are. Do you think they are so hard?
>
Hmm - I'm a Canadian, but let me see if I know these.
> 1. What is the supreme law of the land?
The Constitution
>
> 2. What do we call the first ten ammendments of the U.S. Constitution?
Bill of Rights
>
> 3. What are the two parts of the U.S. Congress?
Senate and House of Reps
>
> 4.How many justices are on the Supreme Court?
12
>
> 5. Who wrote the Declaration Of Independence?
>
> 6. What ocean is on the east coast of the U.S.?
Atlantic
>
> 7. What are the two major political parties in the United States?
Republicans and Democrats
>
> 8. We elect a U.S. Senator for how many years?
4 years
>
> 9. Who was the first president?
GW
>
> 10. Who is in charge of the executive branch?
The President
>
> The full report that the story was based on is at:
>
> http://www.goldwaterinstitute.org
>
Don't think it's just US kids - Canadian kids know just as little about
our system. It's not mandatory in a lot of places to take more than one
year of history, and, IIRC, in Ontario where I live, that is all 20th C
history.
MargW
MargW
Oppps - replaying to my own message - skipped question 5 - Jefferson.
MargW
Jim Hetley
Hey, I've seen "man on the street" surveys that tried to get people to
approve of the Bill of Rights. Nobody wanted it . . .
Jim
David
want to learn it.
--
David
No email replies please.
The fashion wears out more apparel than the man. -- William
Shakespeare, "Much Ado About Nothing"
Tom the Alien Cat
It would be funny if it wasn't so serious. People (and the schools)
are in a "the news will tell me if I need to know it" mode, only it
doesn't work that way.
Sometimes I find myself coming to the defense of Dan Quayle, of all
people. In 1992, running for reelection, he mentioned that the next
election would be in 1994. A lot of people jumped on that and called
him stupid. People don't keep in mind that there are congressional
elections every two years, after all, senators are on six year terms.
So this stuff is necessary, though most people think they'll do fine
without it.
Pure and simply, the schools aren't doing their jobs. We WILL pay the
price for that, unfortunately.
tom tac
Barry Gold
Uncle Sky <Uncl...@home.alone.invalid> wrote:
>I saw an article in the local paper today that really makes me wonder. It
>stated that high school kids in AZ were given a test made up of ten
>questions selected at random from the US Citizenship Test. Something like
>7% passed. They listed the questions. I admit I only got eight right but
>geeeez. Passing was 60%. Here they are. Do you think they are so hard?
>
>1. What is the supreme law of the land?
The constitution (per article VI)
>2. What do we call the first ten ammendments of the U.S. Constitution?
The Bill of Rights
>3. What are the two parts of the U.S. Congress?
House of representatives, Senate
>4.How many justices are on the Supreme Court?
9
>5. Who wrote the Declaration Of Independence?
Thomas Jefferson is the conventional wisdom. I'll stick with that,
although there are those who credit Paine.
>6. What ocean is on the east coast of the U.S.?
The Atlantic Ocean
>7. What are the two major political parties in the United States?
Democratic and Republican
>8. We elect a U.S. Senator for how many years?
6
>9. Who was the first president?
George Washington
>10. Who is in charge of the executive branch?
The President
--
Barry Gold, webmaster:
Alarums & Excursions, Xenofilkia: http://places.to/xeno
Conchord: http://www.conchord.org
Los Angeles Science Fantasy Society, Inc.: http://www.lasfsinc.org
John W. Vinson
>I'm sure you're right. I must also note that I have seen "on the street"
>interviews that asked adults similar questions that got really dumb answers
>or none at all.
The incident I remember from a few years back was unsettling as well: a group
of students from an American Government class printed out the Bill of Rights,
verbatim, right from the constitution; and set up a card table in a mall
trying to get signatures to get these amendments adopted.
LOTS of people refused to sign, and some threatened to have them arrested for
advocating such radical ideas.
--
John the Wysard JVinson *at* Wysard Of Info *dot* com
Sean Cleary
> >5. Who wrote the Declaration Of Independence?
>
> Thomas Jefferson is the conventional wisdom. I'll stick with that,
> although there are those who credit Paine.
>
original committee of 5.
Paine could write well. Would he have really written a complaint list?
Sean
Sean Cleary
> >5. Who wrote the Declaration Of Independence?
>
> Thomas Jefferson is the conventional wisdom. I'll stick with that,
> although there are those who credit Paine.
>
Sean
Erin
> Captain Jack <whoda...@NOSPAM.US.yahoo.com> wrote:
Also remember that the "on the street" interviews are being done for
either shock factor or entertainment factor. They have the power of
selective editing -- they're *only* going to show you those stupid/
ignorant/dumb answers, not the plethora of correct answers.
Erin
Phatchick
<jvinson@STOP_SPAM.WysardOfInfo.com> wrote:
> The incident I remember from a few years back was unsettling as well: a group
> of students from an American Government class printed out the Bill of Rights,
> verbatim, right from the constitution; and set up a card table in a mall
> trying to get signatures to get these amendments adopted.
Do you have a cite for that? I'd like to have a look at that article.
Phatchick
(who got all 10 right!)
Erin
Can't find an official/original cite, but there's this...
http://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/2005/winter/weinstein.html
"Not so some citizens of Maryland, Virginia, and the District of
Columbia—according to a widespread but possibly apocryphal story heard
decades ago by this historian. It concerned an experiment conducted in
shopping malls on weekends by students carrying petitions on which
they had written in longhand the provisions of the first 10
amendments. Not only did most of those approached decline to sign but
their negative response was punctuated with expressions of concern for
the supposed "radicalism" of the petition's demands. True story or
fable? Either way, it gains some credibility if only because of the
apparently widespread ignorance of Americans concerning that crucial
founding document."
The Rocket Scientist
<some snippage>
>
> 4.How many justices are on the Supreme Court?
>
Currently there are nine. The Constitution makes no provision for the
number of justices on the Supreme Court. The first Supreme Court
consisted of six justices. Franklin Roosevelt attempted to appoint
five additional justices, a move referred to as "Packing the Supreme
Court," so as to have a majority of justices that would not overturn
his New Deal. The attempt failed.
>
> 5. Who wrote the Declaration Of Independence?
>
While Jefferson wrote the basic document, it was amended with
additions and deletions by the Continental Congress. One example was
a paragraph condemning the slave trade which was deleted at the
insistence of certain Southern states. Ironically, Jefferson was a
slave owner. (He loved his slaves.)
>
> 7. What are the two major political parties in the United States?
>
Again, the Constitution makes no specific provision for any political
parties. The current Democratic and Republican parties did not exist
at the time of the first Presidential election. The Democratic Party
was formed as a vehicle to promote the presidency of Andrew Jackson,
who was defeated on his first attempt when the Electoral College could
not reach a majority and the election was sent to the House of
Representatives. Jackson was furious that he was not elected despite
having the largest plurality in the popular elections. The GOP was
formed as a radical anti-slavery party in the nineteenth century.
Bill Sullivan
John W. Vinson
Thanks Erin. That's in agreement with my memory - and it was at least 20 years
ago.
Uncle Sky
Very good. All ten correct. Yes The West Wing was wonderfull. (IMHO)
--
Uncle Sky
Uncle Sky
> On Jul 2, 2:00=A0am, Uncle Sky<Uncle_...@home.alone.invalid> wrote:
> > Captain Jack <whoda...@NOSPAM.US.yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Uncle Sky<Uncle_...@home.alone.invalid> wrote in
> > >news:20090702030613.489$N...@newsreader.com:
> >
> > > > I saw an article in the local paper today that really makes me
> .
> > > > It stated that high school kids in AZ were given a test made up of
> n
> > > > questions selected at random from the US Citizenship Test.
> > > > Something like 7% passed. They listed the questions. I admit I only
> > > > got eight right but geeeez. Passing was 60%. Here they are. Do you
> > > > think they are so hard?
> >
> > > > 1. What is the supreme law of the land?
> >
> > > > 2. What do we call the first ten ammendments of the U.S.
> ?
> >
> > > > 3. What are the two parts of the U.S. Congress?
> >
> > > > 4.How many justices are on the Supreme Court?
> >
> > > > 5. Who wrote the Declaration Of Independence?
> >
> > > > 6. What ocean is on the east coast of the U.S.?
> >
> > > > 7. What are the two major political parties in the United States?
> >
> > > > 8. We elect a U.S. Senator for how many years?
> >
> > > > 9. Who was the first president?
> >
> > > > 10. Who is in charge of the executive branch?
> >
> > > > The full report that the story was based on is at:
> >
> > > >http://www.goldwaterinstitute.org
> >
> > > Well *I* don't think they're that hard (got 8 out of 10), but then,
> > > I'd be willing to wager we paid attention in school.
> >
> > > They're probably teaching this stuff, Sky, but most of the kids in
> > > the classroom couldn't give a damn about learning it- they don't see
> > > someone who's =
> not
> > > willing to put out the effort to learn.
> >
> > > The Cap'n
> >
> > I'm sure you're right. I must also note that I have seen "on the
> > street" interviews that asked adults similar questions that got really
> rs
> > or none at all.
>
> Also remember that the "on the street" interviews are being done for
> either shock factor or entertainment factor. They have the power of
> selective editing -- they're *only* going to show you those stupid/
> ignorant/dumb answers, not the plethora of correct answers.
>
> Erin
Point.
--
Uncle Sky
Nick Chopper
> Canth <kwar6...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> > On 02 Jul 2009 07:08:29 GMT, Uncle Sky<Uncle_...@home.alone.invalid>
> > wrote:
>
> > >I saw an article in the local paper today that really makes me wonder.
> > >It stated that high school kids in AZ were given a test made up of ten
> > >questions selected at random from the US Citizenship Test. Something
> > >like 7% passed. They listed the questions. I admit I only got eight
> > >right but geeeez. Passing was 60%. Here they are. Do you think they are
> > >so hard?
The tin man sips his WD40 again. "This was an important point many of
us seem to miss.
"I do math. I do science. I am a nerd (in RL) and think politics is
popadoodle (in the words of Odd Bodkins). But I got all ten right.
That is not the point. The point is that we don't require our natural-
born citizens to know this, but do require immigrants to know this to
become citizens!
"Another example of differential expectations (requirement): To adopt
a kid you have to do a good job of emulating St Augustine, and turn
your home into an ICU. But to have one the normal (fun) way, you could
be Jack the Ripper and live in the city dump (where such things still
exist). You don't have to be married, you don't have to have the
economic means, you don't even have to be sane. YOU CAN EVEN BE IN
PRISON! But nobody cares if you have the kid until something happens
to him or her.
"I'm sure ingenious Callahaners can come up with other examples. In
any case, I think this is important knowledge for citizenship and am
glad they test immigrants. Maybe schools could challenge students to
compete with immigrants in quizzes or something to win prizes.
"It might even be productive to start a whole new thread here on what
citizenship should mean (perhaps Uncle Sky's objective). I'd be
willing to discuss this."
Nick proposes a modest toast: "To the US Constitution! A monstrous
hodgepodge whose redeeming quality is that it has done well to
preserve our freedoms and the union for 220 years!" CRASH
Matthew Russotto
Uncle Sky <Uncl...@home.alone.invalid> wrote:
>I saw an article in the local paper today that really makes me wonder. It
>stated that high school kids in AZ were given a test made up of ten
>questions selected at random from the US Citizenship Test. Something like
>7% passed. They listed the questions. I admit I only got eight right but
>geeeez. Passing was 60%. Here they are. Do you think they are so hard?
Well, I know the answers they want, but I managed to get my old friend
"TinfoilHatMan" out of his bunker long enough to ask him, and here's
what he has to say:
>1. What is the supreme law of the land?
"Them that's got the gold, makes the rules"
>2. What do we call the first ten ammendments of the U.S. Constitution?
"Void where prohibited by law"
>3. What are the two parts of the U.S. Congress?
"It don't matter, they same people are pulling the strings for both of
them"
>4.How many justices are on the Supreme Court?
"There ain't no justice on the Supreme Court, or anywhere else for
that matter"
>5. Who wrote the Declaration Of Independence?
"I ain't admitting to nothing. I've never even read that subversive
document, no sir."
>6. What ocean is on the east coast of the U.S.?
"What kind of question is that? And why are you asking me all these things?"
>7. What are the two major political parties in the United States?
"Just like Congress, it don't matter"
>8. We elect a U.S. Senator for how many years?
"We don't elect anyone. The Bilderburgers and the Triliaterals and the
CFR, they elect them for as long as they want"
>9. Who was the first president?
"George Washington, but he was just a figurehead for the Illuminati of
the time."
>10. Who is in charge of the executive branch?
"Well, that Obama fellow thinks he is, but I tell you it's still Dick
Cheney."
--
It's times like these which make me glad my bank is Dial-a-Mattress
Wes Struebing
wrote:
>I saw an article in the local paper today that really makes me wonder. It
>stated that high school kids in AZ were given a test made up of ten
>questions selected at random from the US Citizenship Test. Something like
>7% passed. They listed the questions. I admit I only got eight right but
>geeeez. Passing was 60%. Here they are. Do you think they are so hard?
>
>1. What is the supreme law of the land?
>
>2. What do we call the first ten ammendments of the U.S. Constitution?
>
>3. What are the two parts of the U.S. Congress?
>
>4.How many justices are on the Supreme Court?
>
>5. Who wrote the Declaration Of Independence?
>
>6. What ocean is on the east coast of the U.S.?
>
>7. What are the two major political parties in the United States?
>
>8. We elect a U.S. Senator for how many years?
>
>9. Who was the first president?
>
>10. Who is in charge of the executive branch?
>
>The full report that the story was based on is at:
>
>http://www.goldwaterinstitute.org
Curious - which ones did you miss? (not to embarrass you, understand
- just curious)
Wes Struebing
wrote:
>"ka.mi...@gmail.com" <ka.mi...@gmail.com> wrote:
...and, actually, the "first president" was John Hanson(sp?) under the
Articles of Confederation. I'd go with George Washington, anyway,
though.
Wes Struebing
wrote:
>Captain Jack <whod...@NOSPAM.US.yahoo.com> wrote:
Geographical questions concerning the US are even worse, IIRC (world
geography - fuggedaboutit)
Wes Struebing
wrote:
...and a Senator is elected for 6 years...<G>
Denny Wheeler
>
>To be fair, a lot of them don't need to know this stuff.
>
>Also, all of it is fairly easy to look up (although that's not
>why I managed to score as well as I did - I'm a bit of a
>political junkie).
>
>For example, if the question was "name the nine Supreme
>Court Justices", and it was an assignment instead of a test,
>I'd bet that kids today would have a heck of an easier time
>answering than kids twenty years ago.
30-40 years ago, I could easily rattle 'em off. Not now. I'm lucky
to know more than two or three. (Clarence Thomas is the one I most
easily remember now)
--
-denny-
Some people are offence kleptomaniacs -- whenever they see
an offence that isn't nailed down, they take it ;-)
--David C. Pugh, in alt.callahans
Know the signs!
http://www.heartinfo.org/ms/guides/9/main.html
Denny Wheeler
<whod...@NOSPAM.US.yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Well *I* don't think they're that hard (got 8 out of 10), but then, I'd
>be willing to wager we paid attention in school.
>
>They're probably teaching this stuff, Sky, but most of the kids in the
>classroom couldn't give a damn about learning it- they don't see a need
>to know this stuff so they ignore it. You can't teach someone who's not
>willing to put out the effort to learn.
I've read of--unfortunately, don't have cites--polls taken that were
of the form, "do you think these laws should be enacted"--and the
majority of those polled said no.
The 'laws' in question? The bill of rights.
Denny Wheeler
>I saw an article in the local paper today that really makes me wonder. It
>stated that high school kids in AZ were given a test made up of ten
>questions selected at random from the US Citizenship Test. Something like
>7% passed. They listed the questions. I admit I only got eight right but
>geeeez. Passing was 60%. Here they are. Do you think they are so hard?
Well, since I got 100%, as did Desi, and as would most of my friends,
no I don't think they're hard at all. To get some of 'em wrong, you'd
have to be making a major effort at avoiding any knowledge.
Denny Wheeler
wrote:
>Oppps - replaying to my own message - skipped question 5 - Jefferson.
given this, 8/10
9 justices on SCOTUS
6 year term for Senators
(2 for Representatives)
Denny Wheeler
<boo...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Nick proposes a modest toast: "To the US Constitution! A monstrous
>hodgepodge whose redeeming quality is that it has done well to
>preserve our freedoms and the union for 220 years!" CRASH
I'll damnwell drink to that grand document.
######## CRASH #########
Chris Zakes
bg...@nyx.net (Barry Gold) to write:
>Uncle Sky <Uncl...@home.alone.invalid> wrote:
(snip)
>>5. Who wrote the Declaration Of Independence?
>Thomas Jefferson is the conventional wisdom. I'll stick with that,
>although there are those who credit Paine.
Actually, the basis for the Declaration of Independance was written by
a mouse named Amos, who lived with Ben Franklin.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0045550/
-Chris Zakes
Texas
If I've reached the place where I'm a good influence on anybody, it's time I
cultivated some new vices.
-Oscar Jensen in "Space Cadet" by Robert Heinlein
Desideria
<den...@TANSTAAFL.zipcon.net.INVALID> wrote:
>On 02 Jul 2009 07:08:29 GMT, Uncle Sky<Uncl...@home.alone.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>I saw an article in the local paper today that really makes me wonder. It
>>stated that high school kids in AZ were given a test made up of ten
>>questions selected at random from the US Citizenship Test. Something like
>>7% passed. They listed the questions. I admit I only got eight right but
>>geeeez. Passing was 60%. Here they are. Do you think they are so hard?
>
>Well, since I got 100%, as did Desi, and as would most of my friends,
>no I don't think they're hard at all. To get some of 'em wrong, you'd
>have to be making a major effort at avoiding any knowledge.
Thanks, sweetie, but I didn't get 100%. As I recall, I went over the
questions briefly with you, and didn't get Senatorial term length
right, for one, nor the # of justices on the Supreme Court.
Desideria
Denny Wheeler
Are...are you telling me you're NOT perfect??? Oh, the humanity!!
Desideria
<den...@TANSTAAFL.zipcon.net.INVALID> wrote:
>On Thu, 02 Jul 2009 21:14:15 -0700, Desideria
><deside...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 02 Jul 2009 18:29:11 -0700, Denny Wheeler
>><den...@TANSTAAFL.zipcon.net.INVALID> wrote:
>>
>>>On 02 Jul 2009 07:08:29 GMT, Uncle Sky<Uncl...@home.alone.invalid>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>I saw an article in the local paper today that really makes me wonder. It
>>>>stated that high school kids in AZ were given a test made up of ten
>>>>questions selected at random from the US Citizenship Test. Something like
>>>>7% passed. They listed the questions. I admit I only got eight right but
>>>>geeeez. Passing was 60%. Here they are. Do you think they are so hard?
>>>
>>>Well, since I got 100%, as did Desi, and as would most of my friends,
>>>no I don't think they're hard at all. To get some of 'em wrong, you'd
>>>have to be making a major effort at avoiding any knowledge.
>>
>>Thanks, sweetie, but I didn't get 100%. As I recall, I went over the
>>questions briefly with you, and didn't get Senatorial term length
>>right, for one, nor the # of justices on the Supreme Court.
>
>Are...are you telling me you're NOT perfect??? Oh, the humanity!!
"Shhhh, be vewy vewy qwiet."
Desideria
ka.mi...@gmail.com
would be more useful than "how many supreme court
justices are there?" These questions are for americans:
1. The Bill of Rights grants US citizens certain specific
protections. Famously, The Second Amendment allows
persons the right to bear arms. Name three other rights
granted by the Bill of Rights.
2. The Civil Rights Act and various other laws prohibit
discrimination based on certain characteristis. For
example, it is illegal to discriminate based on race.
Name two other characteristics that are protected from
discrimination.
3. Some countries have universal healthcare. Does
the US?
4. What types of identification are required for you to
legally cross your nearest state border and your
nearest national border?
Any other suggestions for questions?
Magus Firecow.
Uncle Sky
doubt on the survey. I now believe that things are not as bad as it seemed.
It was a telephone survey of teenagers. Some of the naswers give rise to
the suspicion that the kids thought it was a joke.
Here's the editorial:
http://www.azstarnet.com/allheadlines/299331.php
Things are still not good but the survey is not either.
--
Uncle Sky
Uncle Sky
5 & 8, I knew the answers but couldn't pull them up. Old age sucks.
--
Uncle Sky
Denny Wheeler
<deside...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 02 Jul 2009 22:54:37 -0700, Denny Wheeler
><den...@TANSTAAFL.zipcon.net.INVALID> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 02 Jul 2009 21:14:15 -0700, Desideria
>><deside...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 02 Jul 2009 18:29:11 -0700, Denny Wheeler
>>><den...@TANSTAAFL.zipcon.net.INVALID> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 02 Jul 2009 07:08:29 GMT, Uncle Sky<Uncl...@home.alone.invalid>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I saw an article in the local paper today that really makes me wonder. It
>>>>>stated that high school kids in AZ were given a test made up of ten
>>>>>questions selected at random from the US Citizenship Test. Something like
>>>>>7% passed. They listed the questions. I admit I only got eight right but
>>>>>geeeez. Passing was 60%. Here they are. Do you think they are so hard?
>>>>
>>>>Well, since I got 100%, as did Desi, and as would most of my friends,
>>>>no I don't think they're hard at all. To get some of 'em wrong, you'd
>>>>have to be making a major effort at avoiding any knowledge.
>>>
>>>Thanks, sweetie, but I didn't get 100%. As I recall, I went over the
>>>questions briefly with you, and didn't get Senatorial term length
>>>right, for one, nor the # of justices on the Supreme Court.
>>
>>Are...are you telling me you're NOT perfect??? Oh, the humanity!!
>
>"Shhhh, be vewy vewy qwiet.
<whispered>
Are we hunting wabbits?
MargW
> On Thu, 02 Jul 2009 07:34:24 -0400, MargW <mwhi...@sympatico.ca>
> wrote:
>
>> Oppps - replaying to my own message - skipped question 5 - Jefferson.
>
> given this, 8/10
>
> 9 justices on SCOTUS
> 6 year term for Senators
> (2 for Representatives)
>
Yah, I blew it on SCOTUS, and I actually knew that. Was the term for
Senators always six years? I seemed the remember from studying US
history in High School (probably wrongly) that Senator terms were four
years with half the senate being elected alternately. If not, I've no
idea where I came up with that.
When I went to school (the dark ages, don't you know), high school
history was basically (IIRC):
Grade 9 - Settlement of North America and exploration
Grade 10 - British and European History
Grade 11 - Canadian History - exploration to Confederation (including
the move to responsible government)
Grade 12 - 19th and 20th C World history - US Civil War,
post-Confederation Canadian History, WWI and II
Grade 13 (which was pre-University in Ontario)* - more in depth study of
US/Canadian relations, and the role of Canada in the 20th C
(constitution history and the move to fully autonomous self-government,
i.e no oversight or control by Westminster)
Now kids can graduate with only one history credit, and it's 20th C
history with no background.
*Note: Ontario had an interesting Secondary School system. Grade 13 was
instituted during the 1930s. You graduated from HS with your diploma at
the end of Grade 12, but if you were going on to University in Ontario
you did Grade 13, or Honour's Graduation. It was really the equivalent
of first year University. My understanding is that it was put in place
to help rural students who might never get to go to University, and to
keep more kids out of the work force for one more year during a time of
depression.
The Harris government did away with it more than 10 years ago. It meant
five years of learning crammed into four years, twice as many kids
hitting university the first year (known as the double cadre)and of
course, the universities didn't change what they expected of first year
students.
MargW
Denny Wheeler
wrote:
>Old age sucks.
Beats hell out of the only alternative I'm aware of.
Denny Wheeler
Well, I can answer all of them, though for #3, it'd be best to define
"universal healthcare"--it could be stretched to include a lot of
arrangements that most wouldn't consider to be 'universal healthcare.'
And while national border crossings are the purview of the federal
government, the requirements vary a bit from state to state, in that
at least some states now offer an 'enhanced driver's license' which is
acceptable ID for returning to the country, at least if coming back to
one's home state. (yes, WA is one such state)
MargW
Not sure I can answer all of these, but as a non-American,I'll try
ka.mi...@gmail.com wrote:
> I'm going to try and come up with some questions that
> would be more useful than "how many supreme court
> justices are there?" These questions are for americans:
>
> 1. The Bill of Rights grants US citizens certain specific
> protections. Famously, The Second Amendment allows
> persons the right to bear arms. Name three other rights
> granted by the Bill of Rights.
>
Religious freedom, right to assemble, right not to incriminate oneself
(the fifth)
> 2. The Civil Rights Act and various other laws prohibit
> discrimination based on certain characteristis. For
> example, it is illegal to discriminate based on race.
> Name two other characteristics that are protected from
> discrimination.
Disability and place of origin (?)
>
> 3. Some countries have universal healthcare. Does
> the US?
>
> 4. What types of identification are required for you to
> legally cross your nearest state border and your
> nearest national border?
Nothing between states, but you had better have your passport if you are
leaving the country.
>
> Any other suggestions for questions?
>
> Magus Firecow.
MargW
Rowan Hawthorn
> On 03 Jul 2009 10:46:01 GMT, Uncle Sky<Uncl...@home.alone.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> Old age sucks.
>
> Beats hell out of the only alternative I'm aware of.
>
Yeah, but I sometimes question that, too...
--
Rowan Hawthorn
"Occasionally, I'm callous and strange." - Willow Rosenberg, "Buffy the
Vampire Slayer"
DE Wolf
> I'm going to try and come up with some questions that
> would be more useful than "how many supreme court
> justices are there?" These questions are for americans:
>
> 1. The Bill of Rights grants US citizens certain specific
> protections. Famously, The Second Amendment allows
> persons the right to bear arms. Name three other rights
> granted by the Bill of Rights.
Third Amendment guarantees that soldiers may not be forcibly
quartered in the homes of citzenry.
Sixth Amendment guarantees the right to a speedy trial in
all criminal cases.
Eighth Amendment guarantees that if arrested you may not be
required to pay excessive bail. [Now, define excessive. :D]
> 2. The Civil Rights Act and various other laws prohibit
> discrimination based on certain characteristis. For
> example, it is illegal to discriminate based on race.
> Name two other characteristics that are protected from
> discrimination.
Creed {ie religion} and national origin.
> 3. Some countries have universal healthcare. Does
> the US?
Not really. If you have the money, or your employer offers
insurance coverage, and are too healthy to need it you have
insurance. [Bitter much? ME?]
> 4. What types of identification are required for you to
> legally cross your nearest state border and your
> nearest national border?
Used to be just none to cross a state border and a drivers
license to cross into Mexico (the nearest national border).
To the best of my knowledge, that still holds true for the
state borders, but we now need a passport to cross into
either Mexico or Canada.
> Any other suggestions for questions?
>
> Magus Firecow.
Bard Wolf
--
******
SpecOp 27
**************************************
Linux - Choice of a GNU generation
**************************************
I do not fear computers. I fear the
lack of them.
- Isaac Asimov
**************************************
There is no shame in walking away from
a fight; but if they won't let you
walk away...have fun.
- S. Hersha
**************************************
You can have Freedom or Peace,
Don't EVER count on having both.
**************************************
ka.mi...@gmail.com
<den...@TANSTAAFL.zipcon.net.INVALID> wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 03:03:50 -0700 (PDT), "ka.ming....@gmail.com"
The "universal healthcare" question is supposed
to be a "trick" question. There has even recently
been a holder of a very high public office that
claimed that there was universal healthcare in the
US since anyone can go to an emergency room.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2007/07/11/BL2007071101146_pf.html
The border crossing question was also supposed
to be a "trick" question since the rules changed
only one month ago. Congrats on nailing it though
http://www.getyouhome.gov/html/lang_eng/index.html
So you managed to outfox both my attempts at
being clever. Nice Denny. I guess I owe you a
BOYC.
Magus Firecow.
Sean Cleary
wrote:
> I'm going to try and come up with some questions that
> would be more useful than "how many supreme court
> justices are there?" These questions are for americans:
>
> 1. The Bill of Rights grants US citizens certain specific
> protections. Famously, The Second Amendment allows
> persons the right to bear arms. Name three other rights
> granted by the Bill of Rights.
have compilers back then)
>
> 2. The Civil Rights Act and various other laws prohibit
> discrimination based on certain characteristis. For
> example, it is illegal to discriminate based on race.
> Name two other characteristics that are protected from
> discrimination.
>
Sex and religion?
> 3. Some countries have universal healthcare. Does
> the US?
>
No
> 4. What types of identification are required for you to
> legally cross your nearest state border and your
> nearest national border?
>
None, passport currently.
Marten Kemp
(snip}
> 4. What types of identification are required for you to
> legally cross your nearest state border and your
> nearest national border?
I'd say 'a U.S. valid passport' for the second part,
and 'none at the moment' for the first. I inserted the
qualifier because, even though Dubya and his cabal are
out of power at the moment, the mindset is deeply rooted.
--
-- Marten Kemp
(Fix name and ISP to reply)
Marten Kemp
> On Jul 2, 9:18 am, Phatchick <phatchic...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Jul 2, 11:04 am, John W. Vinson
>>
>> <jvinson@STOP_SPAM.WysardOfInfo.com> wrote:
>>> The incident I remember from a few years back was unsettling as well: a group
>>> of students from an American Government class printed out the Bill of Rights,
>>> verbatim, right from the constitution; and set up a card table in a mall
>>> trying to get signatures to get these amendments adopted.
>> Do you have a cite for that? I'd like to have a look at that article.
>>
>> Phatchick
>> (who got all 10 right!)
>
> Can't find an official/original cite, but there's this...
>
> http://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/2005/winter/weinstein.html
>
> "Not so some citizens of Maryland, Virginia, and the District of
> Columbia�according to a widespread but possibly apocryphal story heard
> decades ago by this historian. It concerned an experiment conducted in
> shopping malls on weekends by students carrying petitions on which
> they had written in longhand the provisions of the first 10
> amendments. Not only did most of those approached decline to sign but
> their negative response was punctuated with expressions of concern for
> the supposed "radicalism" of the petition's demands. True story or
> fable? Either way, it gains some credibility if only because of the
> apparently widespread ignorance of Americans concerning that crucial
> founding document."
I probably would have told them that I'd support it
if they changed the 2nd Amendment to "The right to
keep and bear any arms shall not be infringed," or
at least dropped the bit about the Militia.
Uncle Sky
> Denny Wheeler wrote:
> > On Thu, 02 Jul 2009 07:34:24 -0400, MargW <mwhi...@sympatico.ca>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Oppps - replaying to my own message - skipped question 5 - Jefferson.
> >
> > given this, 8/10
> >
> > 9 justices on SCOTUS
> > 6 year term for Senators
> > (2 for Representatives)
> >
>
> Yah, I blew it on SCOTUS, and I actually knew that. Was the term for
> Senators always six years? I seemed the remember from studying US
> history in High School (probably wrongly) that Senator terms were four
> years with half the senate being elected alternately. If not, I've no
> idea where I came up with that.
You were half right. The terms are alternated.
>
> When I went to school (the dark ages, don't you know), high school
> history was basically (IIRC):
> Grade 9 - Settlement of North America and exploration
> Grade 10 - British and European History
> Grade 11 - Canadian History - exploration to Confederation (including
> the move to responsible government)
> Grade 12 - 19th and 20th C World history - US Civil War,
> post-Confederation Canadian History, WWI and II
When I went to school, mmmbbble years ago things were different here in the
US. Each state had differing requirements for graduation from high school.
(grades 9 - 12) My state required:
1 year of World History
1 year of American History
1 year of American Government
High School was grades 10, 11 and 12. World History was required in grade
10. I had to take it twice as I had it in grade 9 in a different state and
moved between grades 9 and 10. You could take the other two in either grade
11 or 12 or both at once in either year.
>
> Grade 13 (which was pre-University in Ontario)* - more in depth study of
> US/Canadian relations, and the role of Canada in the 20th C
> (constitution history and the move to fully autonomous self-government,
> i.e no oversight or control by Westminster)
>
> Now kids can graduate with only one history credit, and it's 20th C
> history with no background.
>
> *Note: Ontario had an interesting Secondary School system. Grade 13 was
> instituted during the 1930s. You graduated from HS with your diploma at
> the end of Grade 12, but if you were going on to University in Ontario
> you did Grade 13, or Honour's Graduation. It was really the equivalent
> of first year University. My understanding is that it was put in place
> to help rural students who might never get to go to University, and to
> keep more kids out of the work force for one more year during a time of
> depression.
>
> The Harris government did away with it more than 10 years ago. It meant
> five years of learning crammed into four years, twice as many kids
> hitting university the first year (known as the double cadre)and of
> course, the universities didn't change what they expected of first year
> students.
>
> MargW
--
Uncle Sky
Erin
wrote:
>
> 4. What types of identification are required for you to
> legally cross your nearest state border and your
> nearest national border?
That's an interesting question for folks in my state, since they are
-- regardless of where in the state you live -- one and the same (we
don't have a state border that isn't also a national border).
Erin
Marten Kemp
> I'm going to try and come up with some questions that
> would be more useful than "how many supreme court
> justices are there?" These questions are for americans:
>
> 1. The Bill of Rights grants US citizens certain specific
> protections. Famously, The Second Amendment allows
> persons the right to bear arms. Name three other rights
> granted by the Bill of Rights.
Well, let's see:
The 1st Amendment guarantees:
-Freedom of religion;
-Freedom of speech [expanded to 'freedom of expression']
except for "shouting 'fire' in a crowded theatre,'
presumably if there isn't a fire (I hope it's okay to
shout if there is such a fire);
-Freedom of the press [expanded to include other media];
-The right of the people peacefully to assemble, if they
are granted parade permits or other permissions by the
local constabulary;
-The right to petition the government for the redress of
grievances. There's nothing in that right that forces the
government to do anything with the petition.
The 2nd Amendment guarantees "the right of the people to keep
and bear arms shall not be infringed," unless that right has
been infringed by the Federal, State, County or Municipal laws.
The 3rd Amendment prohibits the government from installing
soldiers in private homes unless in time of war. This is about
the only Amendment that the Bush cabal left alone, because
they couldn't find any way for Halliburton to make a profit
from violating it.
The 4th Amendment guarantees against warrantless searches and
seizures. It doesn't provide any protection against damage caused
by the search or the destruction or loss of the evidence seized.
The 5th Amendment provides (among other things):
-A person can't be tried for the same crime twice, except in cases
where the person is tried at the State level, again at the Federal
level for a separate crime based on the same circumstances (usually
for violating someone's civil rights), and yet again in a civil
proceeding;
-A person can't be compelled to be a witness against himself
in a criminal case - civil cases aren't covered by this;
-No one can be deprived of life, liberty or property without the
process of law, unless they've been accused of being a terrorist
whereupon they can be confined and have their property stolen, or
if the property catches the eye of any law-enforcement person who
can "arrest" the property in a civil action by asserting it's used
in or the the proceeds of drug activity and require the owner to sue
to get the property back;
-Prohibits private property from being taken for public use without
just compensation, except where the property can be return more
revenue to the local government in other hands.
The 6th Amendment guarantees many things about trials, but they're
only valid if the assertion of terrorism hasn't been made.
Matthew Russotto
Denny Wheeler <den...@zipcon.netREMOVETHIS> wrote:
>On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 03:03:50 -0700 (PDT), "ka.mi...@gmail.com"
><ka.mi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I'm going to try and come up with some questions that
>>would be more useful than "how many supreme court
>>justices are there?" These questions are for americans:
>>
>>1. The Bill of Rights grants US citizens certain specific
>>protections. Famously, The Second Amendment allows
>>persons the right to bear arms. Name three other rights
>>granted by the Bill of Rights.
>>
>>2. The Civil Rights Act and various other laws prohibit
>>discrimination based on certain characteristis. For
>>example, it is illegal to discriminate based on race.
>>Name two other characteristics that are protected from
>>discrimination.
>>
>>3. Some countries have universal healthcare. Does
>>the US?
>>
>>4. What types of identification are required for you to
>>legally cross your nearest state border and your
>>nearest national border?
>>
>>Any other suggestions for questions?
>
>Well, I can answer all of them, though for #3, it'd be best to define
>"universal healthcare"--it could be stretched to include a lot of
>arrangements that most wouldn't consider to be 'universal healthcare.'
You mean like the latest suggestion where we get "universal
healthcare" by making it illegal not to have health insurance,
complete with fines for noncompliance? If I didn't know better I'd
think that one came from the mind of a Republican; actually, it's the
kind of idea that unreformed Ebeneezer Scrooge could really get his
head around.
(Of course, everyone knows that when you create demand for a product
by making it required by law, its price will go down. Right?)
>And while national border crossings are the purview of the federal
>government, the requirements vary a bit from state to state, in that
>at least some states now offer an 'enhanced driver's license' which is
>acceptable ID for returning to the country, at least if coming back to
>one's home state. (yes, WA is one such state)
The border crossing requirements are complex. If you're flying, I
believe you need a passport, unless you're under a certain age. And
you need a passport for any country but Canada or Mexico (I
think... the non-US Virgin Islands may have exceptions as well). If
you're crossing to Canada over land there's one set of rules, and to Mexico
another. I'm not sure about water crossings to Canada or cruises to
Mexico. A passport is always sufficient, though.
--
It's times like these which make me glad my bank is Dial-a-Mattress
David
<karen...@hushmail.com> typed:
LOL. The exception that proves the rule.
--
David
No email replies please.
The fashion wears out more apparel than the man. -- William
Shakespeare, "Much Ado About Nothing"
Chris Zakes
caused Marten Kemp <marte...@thisplanet-link.net> to write:
>Erin wrote:
>> On Jul 2, 9:18 am, Phatchick <phatchic...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Jul 2, 11:04 am, John W. Vinson
>>>
>>> <jvinson@STOP_SPAM.WysardOfInfo.com> wrote:
>>>> The incident I remember from a few years back was unsettling as well: a group
>>>> of students from an American Government class printed out the Bill of Rights,
>>>> verbatim, right from the constitution; and set up a card table in a mall
>>>> trying to get signatures to get these amendments adopted.
>>> Do you have a cite for that? I'd like to have a look at that article.
>>>
>>> Phatchick
>>> (who got all 10 right!)
>>
>> Can't find an official/original cite, but there's this...
>>
>> http://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/2005/winter/weinstein.html
>>
>> "Not so some citizens of Maryland, Virginia, and the District of
>> Columbia�according to a widespread but possibly apocryphal story heard
>> decades ago by this historian. It concerned an experiment conducted in
>> shopping malls on weekends by students carrying petitions on which
>> they had written in longhand the provisions of the first 10
>> amendments. Not only did most of those approached decline to sign but
>> their negative response was punctuated with expressions of concern for
>> the supposed "radicalism" of the petition's demands. True story or
>> fable? Either way, it gains some credibility if only because of the
>> apparently widespread ignorance of Americans concerning that crucial
>> founding document."
>
>I probably would have told them that I'd support it
>if they changed the 2nd Amendment to "The right to
>keep and bear any arms shall not be infringed," or
>at least dropped the bit about the Militia.
That's because people have tried to redefine "milita" by restricting
it to the National Guard, not because the folks who wrote the Second
Amendment were wrong. US law clearly says that the militia has *two*
parts: the organized militia--which is the National Guard and Naval
Militia--and the unorganized militia, which is pretty much everybody
else. (It was the unorganized militia who stopped the terrotists on
Flight 93, for example.)
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/10/311.shtml
And "well regulated" simply meant "well organized" or "properly
running." http://www.constitution.org/cons/wellregu.htm
Chris Zakes
laser caused "ka.mi...@gmail.com" <ka.mi...@gmail.com> to write:
>I'm going to try and come up with some questions that
>would be more useful than "how many supreme court
>justices are there?" These questions are for americans:
>
>1. The Bill of Rights grants US citizens certain specific
>protections. Famously, The Second Amendment allows
>persons the right to bear arms. Name three other rights
>granted by the Bill of Rights.
Freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, the
right to peaceably assemble and petition the government for redress of
grievances, the right to *not* have soldiers quartered in your home
(funny how this was such a big deal during the Revolution, but most
people today would say "Huh?"), the right to trial by a jury of your
peers. Is that sufficient?
>2. The Civil Rights Act and various other laws prohibit
>discrimination based on certain characteristis. For
>example, it is illegal to discriminate based on race.
>Name two other characteristics that are protected from
>discrimination.
Creed, color, gender or national origin. (But not--yet--sexual
preference.)
>3. Some countries have universal healthcare. Does
>the US?
Not yet. Check back this time next year to see what Prexy and the
Congresscritters have come up with.
>4. What types of identification are required for you to
>legally cross your nearest state border and your
>nearest national border?
For most state borders, no documents are required. The exceptions are
Alaska or Hawaii, where you'll need photo ID to fly to the other
states--just as you would if you were flying anywhere else in the US.
Or if you're driving from Alaska, you'll need whatever documents are
now required for crossing national borders (see below.) I don't know
what (if any) documentation is needed to take a ship to the other
states.
For most national borders, it used to be a passport (although that
wasn't required when we drove around Mexico or Canada for a few hours
when I was a kid) but I understand they've recently made that
requirement stricter. I don't know what the new, stricter requirements
are. (I could easily look them up, but I'm presuming that this *isn't*
an open book test.)
Jim Hetley
wrote:
>
> The border crossing requirements are complex. If you're flying, I
> believe you need a passport, unless you're under a certain age. And
> you need a passport for any country but Canada or Mexico (I
> think... the non-US Virgin Islands may have exceptions as well). If
> you're crossing to Canada over land there's one set of rules, and to Mexico
> another. I'm not sure about water crossings to Canada or cruises to
> Mexico. A passport is always sufficient, though.
Need a passport for Canada and Mexico -- even land crossings, since
the start of June. As we have relatives in Canada, we now have
passports . . .
Jim
Wes Struebing
<den...@TANSTAAFL.zipcon.net.INVALID> wrote:
>On 02 Jul 2009 07:08:29 GMT, Uncle Sky<Uncl...@home.alone.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>I saw an article in the local paper today that really makes me wonder. It
>>stated that high school kids in AZ were given a test made up of ten
>>questions selected at random from the US Citizenship Test. Something like
>>7% passed. They listed the questions. I admit I only got eight right but
>>geeeez. Passing was 60%. Here they are. Do you think they are so hard?
>
>Well, since I got 100%, as did Desi, and as would most of my friends,
>no I don't think they're hard at all. To get some of 'em wrong, you'd
>have to be making a major effort at avoiding any knowledge.
There was another one posted today (I think on msnbc.com). 20
questions. A little harder than this one, but not much - but more
inclusive. 95%, and if I had read more carefully, it should have been
100% (I knew the answer, and still picked the wrong one!<grr>)
Wes Struebing
<den...@TANSTAAFL.zipcon.net.INVALID> wrote:
>On Thu, 02 Jul 2009 21:14:15 -0700, Desideria
><deside...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 02 Jul 2009 18:29:11 -0700, Denny Wheeler
>><den...@TANSTAAFL.zipcon.net.INVALID> wrote:
>>
>>>On 02 Jul 2009 07:08:29 GMT, Uncle Sky<Uncl...@home.alone.invalid>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>I saw an article in the local paper today that really makes me wonder. It
>>>>stated that high school kids in AZ were given a test made up of ten
>>>>questions selected at random from the US Citizenship Test. Something like
>>>>7% passed. They listed the questions. I admit I only got eight right but
>>>>geeeez. Passing was 60%. Here they are. Do you think they are so hard?
>>>
>>>Well, since I got 100%, as did Desi, and as would most of my friends,
>>>no I don't think they're hard at all. To get some of 'em wrong, you'd
>>>have to be making a major effort at avoiding any knowledge.
>>
>>Thanks, sweetie, but I didn't get 100%. As I recall, I went over the
>>questions briefly with you, and didn't get Senatorial term length
>>right, for one, nor the # of justices on the Supreme Court.
>
>Are...are you telling me you're NOT perfect??? Oh, the humanity!!
But what a human...
(running away...)
Wes Struebing
wrote:
I think you're right, but I can't remember for sure...
;-)
Wes Struebing
Only if one is returning to the USA via (not air?) Otherwise
passport/visa is required. (Or is it the other way around? (I don't
remember...).)
Desideria
Why run? Resistance is futile. ;-)
{{{{{Wes}}}}}
Desideria
Erin
>
> >4. What types of identification are required for you to
> >legally cross your nearest state border and your
> >nearest national border?
>
> For most state borders, no documents are required. The exceptions are
> Alaska or Hawaii, where you'll need photo ID to fly to the other
> states--just as you would if you were flying anywhere else in the US.
> Or if you're driving from Alaska, you'll need whatever documents are
> now required for crossing national borders (see below.) I don't know
> what (if any) documentation is needed to take a ship to the other
> states.
If you're beginning and ending your cruise in the same port, you don't
need additional documentation aside from official photo ID (state-
issued driver's license, military ID, etc.) and proof of citizenship
(certified birth certificate, for example). If you're starting and
ending in different ports (either US or non-US) then you have to have
a passport. It's recommended that you have a passport even if it's
not required, just in case you miss a departure after an embarkment
and have to fly from a foreign port. I think you also have to have a
passport if your cruise includes any European stops, even if you're in
the "same port" exception.
If you're taking the Alaska Marine Highway System between Alaska and
an US port, I don't think you need a passport (it's treated like air
travel). But if you're on the AMHS between Alaska and a Canadian
port, you do (passport or other acceptable form of ID).
Technically, a passport isn't the ONLY acceptable form of ID for
travel between the US and Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean or Bermuda,
it's just the most common and probably the easiest to travel with.
Erin
Erin
Technically, a passport isn't the ONLY acceptable form of ID for
travel between the US and Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean or Bermuda,
it's just the most common and probably the easiest to get and travel
with.
(from http://travel.state.gov/travel/cbpmc/cbpmc_2223.html) Other
documents acceptable are:
Trusted Traveler Cards (NEXUS, SENTRI, or FAST)
State Issued Enhanced Driver’s License (when available)
Enhanced Tribal Cards (when available)
U.S. Military Identification with Military Travel Orders
U.S. Merchant Mariner Document when traveling in conjunction with
official maritime business
Native American Tribal Photo Identification Card
Form I-872 American Indian Card
Erin
> Uncle Sk wrote :> >>> On Thu, 02 Jul 2009 07:34:24 -0400, MargW <mwhit...@sympatico.ca>
> >>> wrote:
>
> >>>> Oppps - replaying to my own message - skipped question 5 - Jefferson.
>
> >>> given this, 8/10
> >>> 9 justices on SCOTUS
> >>> 6 year term for Senators
> >>> (2 for Representatives)
> >> Yah, I blew it on SCOTUS, and I actually knew that. Was the term for
> >> Senators always six years? I seemed the remember from studying US
> >> history in High School (probably wrongly) that Senator terms were four
> >> years with half the senate being elected alternately. If not, I've no
> >> idea where I came up with that.
>
> > You were half right. The terms are alternated.
>
> case.
>
> >> When I went to school (the dark ages, don't you know), high school
> >> history was basically (IIRC):
> >> Grade 9 - Settlement of North America and exploration
> >> Grade 10 - British and European History
> >> Grade 11 - Canadian History - exploration to Confederation (including
> >> the move to responsible government)
> >> Grade 12 - 19th and 20th C World history - US Civil War,
> >> post-Confederation Canadian History, WWI and II
>
> > When I went to school, mmmbbble years ago things were different here in the
> > US. Each state had differing requirements for graduation from high school.
> > (grades 9 - 12) My state required:
> > 1 year of World History
> > 1 year of American History
> > 1 year of American Government
>
> 10th grade - (No history or gov't classes)
> 11th grade - US History to 1865
> 12th grade - Comparative Political Systems
When I was in HS back in Oklahoma (in the mid-80s), we were allowed to
choose when we took the classes, but by the time we graduated we were
required to have:
1 semester of Oklahoma history
3 semesters of US history (which included 1 semester of US Government)
1 semester of World history
It wasn't nearly enough. HS today (at least here in Alaska) requires
a bit more (4 full years of 'social studies', which includes both
history and civics/government). Since requirements are set by the
individual states, it's *impossible* to say that "all schools today"
aren't teaching. In fact...nope. Nevermind. This teacher is done
with that particular flame war.
Erin
Marten Kemp
> On Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:36:45 -0400, an orbital mind-control laser
> caused Marten Kemp <marte...@thisplanet-link.net> to write:
>
>> Erin wrote:
>>> On Jul 2, 9:18 am, Phatchick <phatchic...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Jul 2, 11:04 am, John W. Vinson
>>>>
>>>> <jvinson@STOP_SPAM.WysardOfInfo.com> wrote:
>>>>> The incident I remember from a few years back was unsettling as well: a group
>>>>> of students from an American Government class printed out the Bill of Rights,
>>>>> verbatim, right from the constitution; and set up a card table in a mall
>>>>> trying to get signatures to get these amendments adopted.
>>>> Do you have a cite for that? I'd like to have a look at that article.
>>>>
>>>> Phatchick
>>>> (who got all 10 right!)
>>> Can't find an official/original cite, but there's this...
>>>
>>> http://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/2005/winter/weinstein.html
>>>
>>> "Not so some citizens of Maryland, Virginia, and the District of
>>> decades ago by this historian. It concerned an experiment conducted in
>>> shopping malls on weekends by students carrying petitions on which
>>> they had written in longhand the provisions of the first 10
>>> amendments. Not only did most of those approached decline to sign but
>>> their negative response was punctuated with expressions of concern for
>>> the supposed "radicalism" of the petition's demands. True story or
>>> fable? Either way, it gains some credibility if only because of the
>>> apparently widespread ignorance of Americans concerning that crucial
>>> founding document."
>> I probably would have told them that I'd support it
>> if they changed the 2nd Amendment to "The right to
>> keep and bear any arms shall not be infringed," or
>> at least dropped the bit about the Militia.
>
> That's because people have tried to redefine "milita" by restricting
> it to the National Guard, not because the folks who wrote the Second
> Amendment were wrong. US law clearly says that the militia has *two*
> parts: the organized militia--which is the National Guard and Naval
> Militia--and the unorganized militia, which is pretty much everybody
> else. (It was the unorganized militia who stopped the terrotists on
> Flight 93, for example.)
> http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/10/311.shtml
>
> And "well regulated" simply meant "well organized" or "properly
> running." http://www.constitution.org/cons/wellregu.htm
You know that and I know that but I'd rather the Amendment
itself didn't have anything in it that could be misconstrued.
Erin
wrote:
> Chris Zakes wrote:
> > On Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:36:45 -0400, an orbital mind-control laser
> > caused Marten Kemp <marten.k...@thisplanet-link.net> to write:
>
> >> Erin wrote:
> >>> On Jul 2, 9:18 am, Phatchick <phatchic...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> On Jul 2, 11:04 am, John W. Vinson
>
> >>>> <jvinson@STOP_SPAM.WysardOfInfo.com> wrote:
> >>>>> The incident I remember from a few years back was unsettling as well: a group
> >>>>> of students from an American Government class printed out the Bill of Rights,
> >>>>> verbatim, right from the constitution; and set up a card table in a mall
> >>>>> trying to get signatures to get these amendments adopted.
> >>>> Do you have a cite for that? I'd like to have a look at that article.
>
> >>>> Phatchick
> >>>> (who got all 10 right!)
> >>> Can't find an official/original cite, but there's this...
>
> >>>http://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/2005/winter/weinstein.html
>
> >>> "Not so some citizens of Maryland, Virginia, and the District of
As long as human beings (as opposed to infallible deities) are writing
the founding documents, they will be able to be misconstrued. There's
not a section in the Bill of Rights (or in any other constitutional or
governmental document) that can't be misconstrued if someone wants to.
Erin
Jim Hetley
> On Jul 3, 3:18 pm, Jim Hetley <jhet...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 3, 5:40 pm, russo...@grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew Russotto)
> > wrote:
>
> > > The border crossing requirements are complex. If you're flying, I
> > > believe you need a passport, unless you're under a certain age. And
> > > you need a passport for any country but Canada or Mexico (I
> > > think... the non-US Virgin Islands may have exceptions as well). If
> > > you're crossing to Canada over land there's one set of rules, and to Mexico
> > > another. I'm not sure about water crossings to Canada or cruises to
> > > Mexico. A passport is always sufficient, though.
>
> > Need a passport for Canada and Mexico -- even land crossings, since
> > the start of June. As we have relatives in Canada, we now have
> > passports . . .
>
> Technically, a passport isn't the ONLY acceptable form of ID for
> travel between the US and Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean or Bermuda,
> it's just the most common and probably the easiest to get and travel
> with.
>
> documents acceptable are:
>
> Trusted Traveler Cards (NEXUS, SENTRI, or FAST)
> State Issued Enhanced Driver’s License (when available)
> Enhanced Tribal Cards (when available)
> U.S. Military Identification with Military Travel Orders
> U.S. Merchant Mariner Document when traveling in conjunction with
> official maritime business
> Native American Tribal Photo Identification Card
> Form I-872 American Indian Card
The "trusted traveler cards" are considered a form of passport, issued
on the same basis but good for one border (Canada or Mexico) only.
The tribal IDs are, according to local news reports (I live in a
border state), considered on a case by case basis, temporarily.
Border officers are not required to accept them.
Maine legislature has voted against issuing any kind of enhanced
driver's license, and even against full compliance with the so-called
Real ID. Several Maine tribes do not even issue tribal ID.
Jim
Purple Kat
>I'm going to try and come up with some questions that
>would be more useful than "how many supreme court
>justices are there?" These questions are for americans:
>
>1. The Bill of Rights grants US citizens certain specific
>protections. Famously, The Second Amendment allows
>persons the right to bear arms. Name three other rights
>granted by the Bill of Rights.
Right to free speach
Right to peaceably gather
?????????????????
>
>2. The Civil Rights Act and various other laws prohibit
>discrimination based on certain characteristis. For
>example, it is illegal to discriminate based on race.
>Name two other characteristics that are protected from
>discrimination.
creed, religion, sexual orientation, sex
>
>3. Some countries have universal healthcare. Does
>the US?
It should!!!!
>
>4. What types of identification are required for you to
>legally cross your nearest state border and your
>nearest national border?
To go outside of NJ - $$$$ (tolls on most major roads OUT of NJ)
to go outside of US - Valid Passport
All answers done without looking at what others have said
Purple Kat
Purple Kat
<purp...@optonline.net> wrote:
Replying to my own post:
>On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 03:03:50 -0700 (PDT), "ka.mi...@gmail.com"
><ka.mi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>1. The Bill of Rights grants US citizens certain specific
>>protections. Famously, The Second Amendment allows
>>persons the right to bear arms. Name three other rights
>>granted by the Bill of Rights.
>
>Right to free speach
>Right to peaceably gather
>?????????????????
AAAGGGHHHHH - free press -- should have remembered that! I worked in 3
newspapers in my life....
>>2. The Civil Rights Act and various other laws prohibit
>>discrimination based on certain characteristis. For
>>example, it is illegal to discriminate based on race.
>>Name two other characteristics that are protected from
>>discrimination.
>creed, religion, sexual orientation, sex
I thought Sexual orientation was added either this year or last?????
>>3. Some countries have universal healthcare. Does
>>the US?
>It should!!!!
>
>>4. What types of identification are required for you to
>>legally cross your nearest state border and your
>>nearest national border?
>To go outside of NJ - $$$$ (tolls on most major roads OUT of NJ)
>to go outside of US - Valid Passport
I am part of a worldwide organization and the US East Coast Annual
event is going on in the end of July/early Aug - so lots of Canadians
had to fill out paperwork to get passports in time to be able to cross
the border.
>All answers done without looking at what others have said
>Purple Kat
Purple Kat
David
<marte...@thisplanet-link.net> typed:
>Chris Zakes wrote:
>> On Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:36:45 -0400, an orbital mind-control laser
>> caused Marten Kemp <marte...@thisplanet-link.net> to write:
>>
>>> Erin wrote:
>>>> On Jul 2, 9:18 am, Phatchick <phatchic...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Jul 2, 11:04 am, John W. Vinson
>>>>>
>>>>> <jvinson@STOP_SPAM.WysardOfInfo.com> wrote:
>>>>>> The incident I remember from a few years back was unsettling as well: a group
>>>>>> of students from an American Government class printed out the Bill of Rights,
>>>>>> verbatim, right from the constitution; and set up a card table in a mall
>>>>>> trying to get signatures to get these amendments adopted.
>>>>> Do you have a cite for that? I'd like to have a look at that article.
>>>>>
>>>>> Phatchick
>>>>> (who got all 10 right!)
>>>> Can't find an official/original cite, but there's this...
>>>>
>>>> http://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/2005/winter/weinstein.html
>>>>
>>>> "Not so some citizens of Maryland, Virginia, and the District of
>>>> Columbia�according to a widespread but possibly apocryphal story heard
Which completely cuts the "unorganised militia" out of the frame.
Chris Zakes
laser caused Erin <karen...@hushmail.com> to write:
>On Jul 3, 3:11�pm, Chris Zakes <donti...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> >4. �What types of identification are required for you to
>> >legally cross your nearest state border and your
>> >nearest national border?
>>
>> For most state borders, no documents are required. The exceptions are
>> Alaska or Hawaii, where you'll need photo ID to fly to the other
>> states--just as you would if you were flying anywhere else in the US.
>> Or if you're driving from Alaska, you'll need whatever documents are
>> now required for crossing national borders (see below.) �I don't know
>> what (if any) documentation is needed to take a ship to the other
>> states.
>
>If you're beginning and ending your cruise in the same port, you don't
>need additional documentation aside from official photo ID (state-
>issued driver's license, military ID, etc.) and proof of citizenship
>(certified birth certificate, for example). If you're starting and
>ending in different ports (either US or non-US) then you have to have
>a passport. It's recommended that you have a passport even if it's
>not required, just in case you miss a departure after an embarkment
>and have to fly from a foreign port. I think you also have to have a
>passport if your cruise includes any European stops, even if you're in
>the "same port" exception.
I was thinking specifically of taking a ship from Hawaii or Alaska to,
say, California.You actually need a passport for that? Weird. (I
wonder if that would also apply between, say, Texas and Florida? Or on
the ferry across Lake Michigan from Wisconsin to Michigan?)
-Chris Zakes
Texas
Have you ever noticed how much "political correctness" resembles a complete
lack of a sense of humor?
Chris Zakes
Have you ever noticed how much "political correctness" resembles a complete
Chris Zakes
caused Purple Kat <purp...@optonline.net> to write:
(snip)
>I am part of a worldwide organization and the US East Coast Annual
>event is going on in the end of July/early Aug - so lots of Canadians
>had to fill out paperwork to get passports in time to be able to cross
>the border.
Pennsic War?
-Chris Zakes
Texas
Marten Kemp
> On Sat, 04 Jul 2009 03:30:39 -0400, Marten Kemp
> <marte...@thisplanet-link.net> typed:
>
>> Chris Zakes wrote:
>>> On Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:36:45 -0400, an orbital mind-control laser
>>> caused Marten Kemp <marte...@thisplanet-link.net> to write:
>>>
>>>> Erin wrote:
>>>>> On Jul 2, 9:18 am, Phatchick <phatchic...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Jul 2, 11:04 am, John W. Vinson
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <jvinson@STOP_SPAM.WysardOfInfo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> The incident I remember from a few years back was unsettling as well: a group
>>>>>>> of students from an American Government class printed out the Bill of Rights,
>>>>>>> verbatim, right from the constitution; and set up a card table in a mall
>>>>>>> trying to get signatures to get these amendments adopted.
>>>>>> Do you have a cite for that? I'd like to have a look at that article.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Phatchick
>>>>>> (who got all 10 right!)
>>>>> Can't find an official/original cite, but there's this...
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/2005/winter/weinstein.html
>>>>>
>>>>> "Not so some citizens of Maryland, Virginia, and the District of
If everybody can keep and bear arms then some of 'em can
get organized and the rest are the "unorganized militia."
Organization has nothing to do with keeping and bearing
arms.
By the way, when I suggested "keep and bear any arms" I
meant just that - no nonsense about fully-automatic
weapons, suppressors, "sawed-off shotguns" or "assault
weapons." If you can afford it you can have it, just be
careful 'cause there is a rather steep downside for misuse.
No shooting artillery in the city limits because it's too
loud, no tanks on city streets because the ruin the pavement,
fighter aircraft have to follow the FAA's rules like all
other aircraft, etc.
Denny Wheeler
<str...@carpedementem.org> wrote:
>>And while national border crossings are the purview of the federal
>>government, the requirements vary a bit from state to state, in that
>>at least some states now offer an 'enhanced driver's license' which is
>>acceptable ID for returning to the country, at least if coming back to
>>one's home state. (yes, WA is one such state)
>
>Only if one is returning to the USA via (not air?) Otherwise
>passport/visa is required. (Or is it the other way around? (I don't
>remember...).)
Enhanced DL is good for land or sea re-entry. You're right, not air.
I didn't want to go through the whole dance.
--
-denny-
Some people are offence kleptomaniacs -- whenever they see
an offence that isn't nailed down, they take it ;-)
--David C. Pugh, in alt.callahans
Know the signs!
http://www.heartinfo.org/ms/guides/9/main.html
Denny Wheeler
<karen...@hushmail.com> wrote:
>On Jul 3, 2:03�am, "ka.ming....@gmail.com" <ka.ming....@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>> 4. �What types of identification are required for you to
>> legally cross your nearest state border and your
>> nearest national border?
>
>That's an interesting question for folks in my state, since they are
>-- regardless of where in the state you live -- one and the same (we
>don't have a state border that isn't also a national border).
How about taking your boat from, say, Juneau, to Hawaii?
Denny Wheeler
<jhe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Jul 3, 5:40锟絧m, russo...@grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew Russotto)
>wrote:
>
>>
>> The border crossing requirements are complex. 锟絀f you're flying, I
>> believe you need a passport, unless you're under a certain age. 锟紸nd
>> you need a passport for any country but Canada or Mexico (I
>> think... the non-US Virgin Islands may have exceptions as well). 锟絀f
>> you're crossing to Canada over land there's one set of rules, and to Mexico
>> another. 锟絀'm not sure about water crossings to Canada or cruises to
>> Mexico. 锟紸 passport is always sufficient, though.
>
>Need a passport for Canada and Mexico -- even land crossings, since
>the start of June. As we have relatives in Canada, we now have
>passports . . .
Actually, one doesn't need a passport for a land crossing to Canada.
(I have no information wrt Mexico border, as that's a long way from
here)
From the Washington State Department of Licensing website:
"Enhanced Driver License/ID Card
"We began issuing an Enhanced Driver License and ID Card (EDL/ID) on
January 22, 2008. The EDL/ID securely denotes identity and
citizenship, and is an acceptable alternative to a passport for
re-entry into the U.S. at land and sea border crossings."
(the above still applies, even since June)
Denny Wheeler
<mike...@unverbesserlich.org> wrote:
>A passport is required for US citizens to *enter* the US.
No. Enhanced DL also is good, via land or sea.
http://www.getyouhome.gov/html/lang_eng/eng_edl.html
Denny Wheeler
<ka.mi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Jul 3, 12:25�pm, Denny Wheeler
><den...@TANSTAAFL.zipcon.net.INVALID> wrote:
>> On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 03:03:50 -0700 (PDT), "ka.ming....@gmail.com"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <ka.ming....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >I'm going to try and come up with some questions that
>> >would be more useful than "how many supreme court
>> >justices are there?" �These questions are for americans:
>>
>> >1. �The Bill of Rights grants US citizens certain specific
>> >protections. �Famously, The Second Amendment allows
>> >persons the right to bear arms. �Name three other rights
>> >granted by the Bill of Rights.
>>
>> >2. �The Civil Rights Act and various other laws prohibit
>> >discrimination based on certain characteristis. �For
>> >example, it is illegal to discriminate based on race.
>> >Name two other characteristics that are protected from
>> >discrimination.
>>
>> >3. �Some countries have universal healthcare. �Does
>> >the US?
>>
>> >4. �What types of identification are required for you to
>> >legally cross your nearest state border and your
>> >nearest national border?
>>
>> >Any other suggestions for questions?
>>
>> Well, I can answer all of them, though for #3, it'd be best to define
>> "universal healthcare"--it could be stretched to include a lot of
>> arrangements that most wouldn't consider to be 'universal healthcare.'
>>
>> And while national border crossings are the purview of the federal
>> government, the requirements vary a bit from state to state, in that
>> at least some states now offer an 'enhanced driver's license' which is
>> acceptable ID for returning to the country, at least if coming back to
>> one's home state. �(yes, WA is one such state)
>
>The "universal healthcare" question is supposed
>to be a "trick" question. There has even recently
>been a holder of a very high public office that
>claimed that there was universal healthcare in the
>US since anyone can go to an emergency room.
>
>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2007/07/11/BL2007071101146_pf.html
>
>The border crossing question was also supposed
>to be a "trick" question since the rules changed
>only one month ago. Congrats on nailing it though
>
>http://www.getyouhome.gov/html/lang_eng/index.html
>
>So you managed to outfox both my attempts at
>being clever. Nice Denny. I guess I owe you a
>BOYC.
Well, I *do* live about 100 miles from the crossing into BC, just
beyond which is the beautiful city of Vancouver, so I pay attention to
that issue. On t'other, I know there are idjits making the claim you
mention.
Didn't realize you were being tricky, though.
Will have something cool, light, refreshing, and nonalcoholic today.
Perhaps lemonade, thank you.
Denny Wheeler
wrote:
>> When I went to school (the dark ages, don't you know), high school
>> history was basically (IIRC):
>> Grade 9 - Settlement of North America and exploration
>> Grade 10 - British and European History
>> Grade 11 - Canadian History - exploration to Confederation (including
>> the move to responsible government)
>> Grade 12 - 19th and 20th C World history - US Civil War,
>> post-Confederation Canadian History, WWI and II
>
>When I went to school, mmmbbble years ago things were different here in the
>US. Each state had differing requirements for graduation from high school.
>(grades 9 - 12) My state required:
>1 year of World History
>1 year of American History
>1 year of American Government
>
>High School was grades 10, 11 and 12. World History was required in grade
>10. I had to take it twice as I had it in grade 9 in a different state and
>moved between grades 9 and 10. You could take the other two in either grade
>11 or 12 or both at once in either year.
At this late date, I no longer recall the history, etc requirements
for HS graduation here, save one: the half-year Washington State
History course was an absolute MUST.
While the history of our state is kind of interesting, there just
isn't enough of it to justify that long a class. Massachusetts or
Virginia or Texas, now--much more to work with.
Denny Wheeler
<str...@carpedementem.org> wrote:
>There was another one posted today (I think on msnbc.com). 20
>questions. A little harder than this one, but not much - but more
>inclusive. 95%, and if I had read more carefully, it should have been
>100% (I knew the answer, and still picked the wrong one!<grr>)
Link?
Denny Wheeler
wrote:
>On Sat, 04 Jul 2009 10:28:28 -0400, an orbital mind-control laser
>caused Purple Kat <purp...@optonline.net> to write:
>
>(snip)
>
>>I am part of a worldwide organization and the US East Coast Annual
>>event is going on in the end of July/early Aug - so lots of Canadians
>>had to fill out paperwork to get passports in time to be able to cross
>>the border.
>
>Pennsic War?
Gee. Methinks CZ nailed it.
0mn1vore
[...]
>
> If everybody can keep and bear arms then some of 'em can
> get organized and the rest are the "unorganized militia."
> Organization has nothing to do with keeping and bearing
> arms.
>
> By the way, when I suggested "keep and bear any arms" I
> meant just that - no nonsense about fully-automatic
> weapons, suppressors, "sawed-off shotguns" or "assault
> weapons." If you can afford it you can have it, just be
> careful 'cause there is a rather steep downside for misuse.
>
> No shooting artillery in the city limits because it's too
> loud, no tanks on city streets because the ruin the pavement,
> fighter aircraft have to follow the FAA's rules like all
> other aircraft, etc.
http://www.stuartcheshire.org/rants/InfoHighway.html
Cheers,
Patrick [ducking and covering]
--
Email to; 0mn1-sneaking(a)sneakEmail,com
but fix the (a) and the comma first.
You are a fluke of the universe; you have no right to be here.
Alison Hiltabidle
Check the history of Maryland out sometime. Verrry interesting ... and
politics? Dirty as they come.
Denny Wheeler
<ahilt...@verizon.net> wrote:
(me)
>> At this late date, I no longer recall the history, etc requirements
>> for HS graduation here, save one: the half-year Washington State
>> History course was an absolute MUST.
>>
>> While the history of our state is kind of interesting, there just
>> isn't enough of it to justify that long a class. Massachusetts or
>> Virginia or Texas, now--much more to work with.
>
>Check the history of Maryland out sometime. Verrry interesting ... and
>politics? Dirty as they come.
I meant to put 'for example' in--the history of California is
fascinating, too. Though, to be fair, there is a lot of WA history
that the schools don't cover. Just finished a book titled _Skid
Road_, which is a history of Seattle 'from the bottom' as it were.
History books tend to be about prominent, 'respectable' (or notorious)
people, and that general class of people. _Skid Road_ isn't. Was
written in the late 50s, early 60s, so a fair number of folk were
still around who'd seen a lot of the local history.
Erin
That's interesting (that they're not required to accept tribal IDs)
since my information came from the Dept. of Homeland Security site.
Goes to show that the officials aren't always official, huh? I've
never seen the NEXUS or SENTRI or FAST cards.
Erin
Marten Kemp
{snippage}
> When I went to school (the dark ages, don't you know), high school
> history was basically (IIRC):
> Grade 9 - Settlement of North America and exploration
> Grade 10 - British and European History
> Grade 11 - Canadian History - exploration to Confederation (including
> the move to responsible government)
> Grade 12 - 19th and 20th C World history - US Civil War,
> post-Confederation Canadian History, WWI and II
>
> US/Canadian relations, and the role of Canada in the 20th C
> (constitution history and the move to fully autonomous self-government,
> i.e no oversight or control by Westminster)
>
> Now kids can graduate with only one history credit, and it's 20th C
> history with no background.
Dad was in the Army and we moved a lot so I studied whatever
the current school system was presenting. I had already studied
some stuff so school was boring, some stuff depended on other
stuff I'd never studied so school was really a grind.
ISTR that in three successive years, in three different schools,
American History covered the early days of the Spanish in Florida.
Purple Kat
wrote:
>On Sat, 04 Jul 2009 10:28:28 -0400, an orbital mind-control laser
Got it in One!!!
hubby and I are having a financial and transportation problem (no
money and no vehicle big enough to transport all our stuff), so we are
not going this year.
Purple Kat
aka Katheryne the Spinner
John W. Vinson
<marte...@thisplanet-link.net> wrote:
>If everybody can keep and bear arms then some of 'em can
>get organized and the rest are the "unorganized militia."
>Organization has nothing to do with keeping and bearing
>arms.
>
>By the way, when I suggested "keep and bear any arms" I
>meant just that - no nonsense about fully-automatic
>weapons, suppressors, "sawed-off shotguns" or "assault
>weapons." If you can afford it you can have it, just be
>careful 'cause there is a rather steep downside for misuse.
So... any restrictions about WHO can keep and bear arms?
Not being snarky here, just wanting to clarify your position.
Clearly convicted violent felons should be prohibited... or only until they've
completed probation? Persons adjudged to be delusional, paranoid, and a risk
to themselves and others... or does that give too much power to the medical
establishment?
--
John the Wysard JVinson *at* Wysard Of Info *dot* com
Wes Struebing
<deside...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 03 Jul 2009 19:27:48 -0600, Wes Struebing
><str...@carpedementem.org> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 02 Jul 2009 22:54:37 -0700, Denny Wheeler
>><den...@TANSTAAFL.zipcon.net.INVALID> wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 02 Jul 2009 21:14:15 -0700, Desideria
>>><deside...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 02 Jul 2009 18:29:11 -0700, Denny Wheeler
>>>><den...@TANSTAAFL.zipcon.net.INVALID> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On 02 Jul 2009 07:08:29 GMT, Uncle Sky<Uncl...@home.alone.invalid>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>I saw an article in the local paper today that really makes me wonder. It
>>>>>>stated that high school kids in AZ were given a test made up of ten
>>>>>>questions selected at random from the US Citizenship Test. Something like
>>>>>>7% passed. They listed the questions. I admit I only got eight right but
>>>>>>geeeez. Passing was 60%. Here they are. Do you think they are so hard?
>>>>>
>>>>>Well, since I got 100%, as did Desi, and as would most of my friends,
>>>>>no I don't think they're hard at all. To get some of 'em wrong, you'd
>>>>>have to be making a major effort at avoiding any knowledge.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks, sweetie, but I didn't get 100%. As I recall, I went over the
>>>>questions briefly with you, and didn't get Senatorial term length
>>>>right, for one, nor the # of justices on the Supreme Court.
>>>
>>>Are...are you telling me you're NOT perfect??? Oh, the humanity!!
>>
>>But what a human...
>>
>>(running away...)
>
>
>Why run? Resistance is futile. ;-)
>
>{{{{{Wes}}}}}
>
I surrender!
{{{Desideria}}}
Wes Struebing
<den...@TANSTAAFL.zipcon.net.INVALID> wrote:
>On Fri, 03 Jul 2009 19:27:15 -0600, Wes Struebing
><str...@carpedementem.org> wrote:
>
>>There was another one posted today (I think on msnbc.com). 20
>>questions. A little harder than this one, but not much - but more
>>inclusive. 95%, and if I had read more carefully, it should have been
>>100% (I knew the answer, and still picked the wrong one!<grr>)
>
>Link?
Your wish is my command.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31668064/ns/us_news-july_4th_special/