Decline of LA
Chris Allen
Im a long time resident of LA that has slowly watched the quality of life
diminish here. Im not sure what has caused this to happen. Does anybody
have any opinions? Does anyone think immigration is responsible?
-
SKADANKS LKT...@prodigy.com
Angelmoon
Chris Allen <LKT...@prodigy.com> wrote in article
<4tpnut$n...@usenetw1.news.prodigy.com>...
Check out the illegal immigration posts, Chris. You will find that some
people (a fair percentage of them NOT US citizens) think illegal
immigration is perfectly OK. Then there are those that think that
immigrants are the only cause. Most of us against illegal immigration
(imagine that, there's actually a group of us against breaking the law <g>)
seem to think it it may be a part of the problem. I personally, think it
has a number of causes: decline of moral values; increase in number of
bums; increase in number of people moving here for higher welfare rates;
too much welfare to start with; increase in number of illegal immigrants;
increase in number of immigrants of all kinds expecting the taxpayers to
support them; increase in number of parents who don't care for their
children or teach them values, but instead expect society -- in the form of
welfare and schools -- to take care of them; etc. There are some legal
immigrants who come here, learn English, get a job and work hard,
encourage their children to do well in school, etc. I do *not* think these
people are a part of the problem. If you do check out the illegal
immigration posts, do lurk for a while as there is some really unbelievable
stupidity there (the US has no right to stop illegals from coming to the
US, but rather should open it's borders -- especially to Mexico -- as in
they don't understand the idea of a soverign nation; illegals aren't
criminals -- as in they don't understand that when people *break the law*
getting here, getting a job, getting welfare, etc. that those are criminal
acts; and anti-illegal=pro-legal and anti-illegal does not = racist). It
constantly amazes me that people are so stupid, but they've had it
explained to them over and over and over and still just don't get it. So
if you believe in obeying the law, patriotism, etc., be prepared to be
shocked. :) (BTW, I'm one of those obey the law, respect the laws of
other nations as well as their right to make their own laws, and ask for
the same courtesy from those who live in other countries.)
--
Angelmoon
[The Libyan army] is capable of destroying America and breaking its nose.
... Libyan leader Muammar Qaddafi
Henry Dan Lambright
On 2 Aug 1996, Psyberdude wrote:
> In article <4tpnut$n...@usenetw1.news.prodigy.com>, LKT...@prodigy.com
> says...
> >
> >Im a long time resident of LA that has slowly watched the quality of life
> >diminish here. Im not sure what has caused this to happen. Does anybody
> >have any opinions? Does anyone think immigration is responsible?
> >-
> > SKADANKS LKT...@prodigy.com
> >
> >
> Let me tell you something. I lived in Los Angeles from 1976 to 1994 and
> toward the end of my stay there I thought just like you. I watched many
> areas of L.A. decline, and I'd had enough of bumper to bumper traffic, smog,
> illegal aliens, earthquakes, gangs, etc,. When the Northridge quake struck I
> decided that it was time to go. I figured that I would move out and find a
> better place to live. I left my job as a technical support representative for
> Packard Bell Computers and moved to Baltimore Maryland where my folks lived.
>
> I've been out here now for 20 months and I hate it. The only good thing
> about it, is that the air is cleaner. The people living here are completely
> different from Californians. They don't have much of a positive attitude.
> They approach life with a sort of resignation. They have no tolerance for
> new ideas. Many of them are very religious and they have a nasty habit of
> laughing at other peoples lifestyles that may be different from their own.
>
> These people think that California is either full of crazy fruitcakes
> and/or full of "fags". It got so bad that I quit mentioning that I was from
> Cal. Now I don't mention it until I find out what the other person is like.
> In Cal I did not find it hard to make friends. Out here I still have no
> friends. It's hard to make friends with people who have "holier than thou"
> attitudes and who think that they already know it all.
I think that Balitimore is a cool town. Harborplace is alot of fun, and
there are alot of interesting old ethnic neighborhoods. Seafood is
incredible. The entire chesapeake bay area is interesting- ocean city is
a great family-style beach town (I think.) But I can see how it would be
difficult to move there flat out without knowing anyone. California is
perpetually reinventing itself with newcomers from both inside and outside
of the country and this gives it a special tolorance for new and different
ideas. On top of that, the climate is unbeatable. On top of *that*,
there is some great scenery is the state (though unfortunately it is under
preasure by development and overpopulation in some cases.)
I left Orange County after 4 years and landed in Tucson for graduate
school, and I am now facing a decision as to wether to return to
California. It sure was a fun place to live in my early 20s, but I am not
sure if going back east to Boston where you have that stability and sense
of history isn't something I'll want to go back to. The downside of
California life for me was that sense of uncontrolable growth- that
absesnse of stability.. the sense that there were no rules, anything
goes; we'll all party like pros while the state is going to hell in a
handbasket (I knew alot of selfish people, but maybe thats just Newport
Beach for you.) Back east, things are boring, but sensible, and you dont
feel like the world falling apart around you. But its not as much fun,
either, nowhere even close. And thats for _sure_..
>
> The weather is quite humid, as it rains a lot in Maryland. And the winters
> are really very cold, what with the snow and all. The ocean sucks out here.
> You're lucky if the waves are two feet high. I'm saving my money so I can
> scoot back to L.A. as soon as I can, and once I get back there I'll never
> complain again. I'm only telling you this because even with the decline in
> the quality of living, Los Angeles and the rest of California is still the
> best place to be. I learned it the hard way, but at least now I know and I'll
> never make the same mistake again. I hope that you don't have to learn all
> of this the way I did. If you do decide to leave someday because of the
> decline of the quality of life, at least don't leave California. If you
> move, stay in the state and you'll be fine. The state of California has a
> special magic that no other state has. I didn't know that until I was no
> longer there.
>
>
>
Angelmoon
Trh2130 <trh...@aol.com> wrote in article
<4ttcdm$6...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>...
> Did it start when Ronald Reagan became governor of California?
>
> Tim
>
Actually, the government statistics and the stories that are told by those
who had lived here for many years before and who continue to live here,
those were pretty darn good times for CA. Plenty of work, not as many
bums, etc.
Remember a few years back when CA tried to limit welfare for those who
moved into the state alredy on welfare? People would be in one state, hear
about CA higher welfare rates, and *somehow* get the money to move out here
to collect the larger sum. The proposed idea was to say that new welfare
arrivals could collect only the amount they had collected in their previous
state of residence if it was less than CA's for one year. Feds said we
couldn't do it.
Then, there's 187. Feds said we couldn't do (most of) it.
I think judges, legislators, etc. who don't even live here have probably
done us more harm than our state government. Too much butting in from
outsiders. The voters of CA speak and somebody who has no business butting
into our state tells us we can't run our own state. Not a good situation.
--
Angelmoon
Go see it and see for yourself why you shouldn't go see it.
... Samuel Goldwyn
DaveHatunen
In article <4ttcdm$6...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, Trh2130 <trh...@aol.com> wrote:
>Did it start when Ronald Reagan became governor of California?
It's a question better addressed to the Californios of 1847...
--
********** DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@netcom.com) **********
* Daly City California *
* Between San Francisco and South San Francisco *
*******************************************************
Trh2130
Did it start when Ronald Reagan became governor of California?
Tim
Psyberdude
The weather is quite humid, as it rains a lot in Maryland. And the winters
Madmartigan
On 2 Aug 1996 13:03:50 -0400, trh...@aol.com (Trh2130) wrote:
>Did it start when Ronald Reagan became governor of California?
It started with Jerry Brown and Rose Bird.
Rudolph Lopez - Politically InCorrect Since 1972
Attention Spelling Nerds! I may have misspelled some
words in my posts. I acknowledge that, so don't even
think of wasting bandwidth to correct me.
Aztlan = Let's make the Southwest into Tijuana
It's ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, Stupid!
La Raza = KKK w/suntan
"Remember, Proposition 187 was the last gasp of
white America in California."
-Former CA State Senator, Art Torres, Now Chairman of the CA Democratic Nat'l Committee
The current White House has WhitewaterGate, TravelGate and FileGate.
Only one more gate is needed at the White House - FUMIGATE.
Michael Higby
LKT...@prodigy.com (Chris Allen) writes:
>Im a long time resident of LA that has slowly watched the quality of life
>diminish here. Im not sure what has caused this to happen. Does anybody
>have any opinions? Does anyone think immigration is responsible?
I think immigration is ONE reason, but immigration in all, not just illegal
immigration. LA is made up of people almost all from somewhere else. Even
within LA, people never stay in one neigborhood more than a generation. This
lack of people putting down roots does not create any emotional investment in
the city, as you would have in more classic cities like New York, Chicago,
Boston, San Francisco, even San Diego. Whether the person is from Mexico or
Iowa, there is no civic pride amongst Angelenos. This lends greatly to the
decline you describe.
The other reason is our political structure. Maybe because of what I
described in the previous paragraph, the general apathy, the downtown
developers, lawyers, unions, etc. run the show with little input from the
average citizenry. Until this is dealt with, LA will not be a great city.
So to answer your question - its immigrants, lawyers, developers and unions!
-----
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Visit Also Our El Chupacabra Page And
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-----
Payam Nicolai Minoofar
I have to disagree. I think it's the general, appalling apathy and
complacency of the residents here. It seems as though I am the only
person who ever gets mad over the fact that traffic is a nightmare no
matter where you are in Southern Cal, and there are NO ALTERNATIVE MODES
OF TRANSPORTATION. I am always the only person who is furious over the
air quality of the basin.
I don't know how the people in LA can breathe the shitty air, waste hours
of their precious days sitting in fucking traffic, and smile through it
all.
San Francisco's public transportation system and air quality are
infinitely superior to LA's, and people are still complaining. In almost
every metropolitan city, people are willing and have the good sense to
spend a little bit more to get the things they need. In LA, we have a
joke of a transit system that is direly needed, and not a soul seems to
give a shit, especially the multimillionaires who like driving their gas
guzzlers around but don't want to pay any more taxes.
Payam
Michael Higby (MHi...@Primenet.com) wrote:
: LKT...@prodigy.com (Chris Allen) writes:
:
Michael Higby
>On 2 Aug 1996, Psyberdude wrote:
>> Let me tell you something. I lived in Los Angeles from 1976 to 1994 and
>> toward the end of my stay there I thought just like you. I watched many
>> areas of L.A. decline, and I'd had enough of bumper to bumper traffic, smog,
>> illegal aliens, earthquakes, gangs, etc,. When the Northridge quake struck I
>> decided that it was time to go. I figured that I would move out and find a
>> better place to live. I left my job as a technical support representative for
>> Packard Bell Computers and moved to Baltimore Maryland where my folks lived.
>>
>> I've been out here now for 20 months and I hate it. The only good thing
>> about it, is that the air is cleaner. The people living here are completely
>> different from Californians. They don't have much of a positive attitude.
>> They approach life with a sort of resignation. They have no tolerance for
>> new ideas. Many of them are very religious and they have a nasty habit of
>> laughing at other peoples lifestyles that may be different from their own.
>>
>> These people think that California is either full of crazy fruitcakes
>> and/or full of "fags". It got so bad that I quit mentioning that I was from
>> Cal. Now I don't mention it until I find out what the other person is like.
>> In Cal I did not find it hard to make friends. Out here I still have no
>> friends. It's hard to make friends with people who have "holier than thou"
>> attitudes and who think that they already know it all.
>> The weather is quite humid, as it rains a lot in Maryland. And the winters
>> are really very cold, what with the snow and all. The ocean sucks out here.
>> You're lucky if the waves are two feet high. I'm saving my money so I can
>> scoot back to L.A. as soon as I can, and once I get back there I'll never
>> complain again. I'm only telling you this because even with the decline in
>> the quality of living, Los Angeles and the rest of California is still the
>> best place to be. I learned it the hard way, but at least now I know and I'll
>> never make the same mistake again. I hope that you don't have to learn all
>> of this the way I did. If you do decide to leave someday because of the
>> decline of the quality of life, at least don't leave California. If you
>> move, stay in the state and you'll be fine. The state of California has a
>> special magic that no other state has. I didn't know that until I was no
>> longer there.
I too have left LA to live other places a few times (more for personal rather
than LA-centered reasons) and have always come back.
I agree this is the place to live, even though I can't explain why. There is
a lot I hate about LA (things other than the usual smog & crime whining you
hear - you have that in every city and most small towns too!). The main thing
I hate about LA is that there is no civic pride, no identity and no energy to
the town like New York, for example. Maybe if the city spilts up into smaller
units or boroughs and things are run locally as opposed to downtown, civic
identities will emerge.
The point is, that although Baltimore may be a great place, the grass is never
really greener on the other side. Many, many people think that if they leave
a place, their life will be better. But they don't realize its not the place
always, because you still bring yourself with you.
Brad
: LKT...@prodigy.com (Chris Allen) writes:
: >Im a long time resident of LA that has slowly watched the quality of life
: >diminish here. Im not sure what has caused this to happen. Does anybody
: >have any opinions? Does anyone think immigration is responsible?
In my neighborhood it is major factor, although it is not illegal
immigration or even the immigration of legal poor imigrants, but of
rich Iranian immigrants. Their arrogance and utter lack of consideration
for anyone but themselves has made our neighborhood hell since we have
an iranian cultural school on our street. The parents can't be bothered
to get out of their BMWs and Mercedes when they pick up their children
so they just sit in the car and HONK HONK HONK HONK HONK, until the brats
notice and come. They can never have a conversation, they have to yell to
each other from accross the street. When you complain you are met with
either a sudden lose of the ability to understand english, or in the case
of the men, threats and homophobic insults.
The classic example was when some old iranian women pulled into my
driveway in her top of the line Mercedes with gold trim and walked intoi
my yard and starting taking the lemons off my tree on my property.
She told me that she was taking my lemons because they where fresher
then the ones at the store, when I informed her that she was a common
thief, she throw my lemon at me (I really should have pressed charges).
On that subject, I am currently persueing a hate crime case against one
of these Iranians after he threated to burn my house down, and to fuck me
and my wife up the ass, because we have been very agressive (but legally)
in defending our right to privacy and to enjoy our property.
I have to admit, hate crime laws work for non-minorities too. Next time
someone tries to intimidate you because your skin is pale, file a hate
crime report.
--
Li...@cris.com - Luna Information Services.
... trust memory over history. Memory, like fire, is radiant & immutable,
while history serves only those who seek to control it. Those who would
douse the flame of memory in order to put out the dangerous fires of truth
- beware these men, for they are dangerous themselves and unwise. Their
false history is written in the blood of those who might remember and of
those who seek the truth.
Angelmoon
Michael Higby <MHi...@Primenet.com> wrote in article
<MHigby.303...@Primenet.com>...
>
> I too have left LA to live other places a few times (more for personal
rather
> than LA-centered reasons) and have always come back.
>
> I agree this is the place to live, even though I can't explain why.
There is
> a lot I hate about LA (things other than the usual smog & crime whining
you
> hear - you have that in every city and most small towns too!). The main
thing
> I hate about LA is that there is no civic pride, no identity and no
energy to
> the town like New York, for example. Maybe if the city spilts up into
smaller
> units or boroughs and things are run locally as opposed to downtown,
civic
> identities will emerge.
>
> The point is, that although Baltimore may be a great place, the grass is
never
> really greener on the other side. Many, many people think that if they
leave
> a place, their life will be better. But they don't realize its not the
place
> always, because you still bring yourself with you.
>
Your last graph makes a very good point. I've lived all over (ex was
military) and decided a long time ago that I could be happy where ever I
was planted. There has been only one place I really didn't like -- more
due to the attitude of the people there than anything else -- everywhere
else had its good and bad points, but I was always able to be quite
content.
I will admit, though that humidity can make life "less pleasant."
--
Angelmoon
I thought he was going to dive and decapitate himself ... badly.
- Mike Hendrick, BBC
Stan
Payam Nicolai Minoofar wrote:
>
> I don't know how the people in LA can breathe the shitty air, waste hours
I have to disagree with this. While it's true that LA air won't win the Pepsi
Challenge, it's a lot better than it used to be. When I was a bicycle racer
here back in 1978, we didn't go on training rides after 10 AM. If we did, we
came back with irritated throats. That doesn't happen any more. Also, our
coach at the time had been a racer training here back in the 60s and he said
that the smog was even worse back then.
Incidentally, the 'quality of life' is an entirely subjective thing. I think
that life here has never been better, in large part *because* of the surge in
immigration. That has made LA a much more interesting place.
And don't talk to me about leaving LA. I've done it twice and I always come
back. There is no other place like it.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stan Schwarz | "I just want to live like Yogi Bear
st...@bombay.gps.caltech.edu | He kicks ass on the average bear."
---------------------------------------------------- -Stukas Over Bedrock -----
Karl Dahlquist
I would say some of the blame is the stupid media and their repetitive
reporting the WORST this region has to offer. I mean, once I stopped
watching the news, I had a different outlook on this city.
I was born in Van Nuys in 1967, and in 1985, went to college in Seattle.
When I returned here in 1991, boy was IT different. I was depressed for
two years, then the riots, then the earthquake. But you look at New
York City...Traveling on business, I have spent about four weeks there
in the past two years. One, it has gotten better because of their
crackdown on crime. I feel safer there that I do in say, Studio City or
Sherman Oaks. I believe their immigrant population is near LA's
(percentage wise?!?) but the atmosphere is different.
And the LA politicians are now the scourge of the nation. Needle
exchanges in front of schools? Tom Hayden just bought a house in LA
and wants to run for mayor. Why can't he run for Santa Monica mayor? Now
the county is suing the tobacco companies. Everyone trying to screw
everyone else.
Robert McMillin
On 06 Aug 1996 20:40:21 PDT, sch...@crl.com (Payam Nicolai Minoofar) said:
> I have to disagree. I think it's the general, appalling apathy and
> complacency of the residents here. It seems as though I am the only
> person who ever gets mad over the fact that traffic is a nightmare no
> matter where you are in Southern Cal, and there are NO ALTERNATIVE MODES
> OF TRANSPORTATION. I am always the only person who is furious over the
> air quality of the basin.
> I don't know how the people in LA can breathe the shitty air, waste hours
> of their precious days sitting in fucking traffic, and smile through it
> all.
> San Francisco's public transportation system and air quality are
> infinitely superior to LA's, and people are still complaining. In almost
> every metropolitan city, people are willing and have the good sense to
> spend a little bit more to get the things they need. In LA, we have a
> joke of a transit system that is direly needed, and not a soul seems to
> give a shit, especially the multimillionaires who like driving their gas
> guzzlers around but don't want to pay any more taxes.
How many times do I have to keep repeating that LA is a much larger
and far less densely populated place than San Francisco? Public mass
transportation is necessarily more expensive and inconvenient than
private cars because of that.
--
Robert L. McMillin | r...@helen.surfcty.com | Netcom: r...@netcom.com
Ever feel like you're being watched? You will.
Robert S. Helfman
In article <MHigby.303...@Primenet.com> MHi...@Primenet.com (Michael Higby) writes:
>...LA is made up of people almost all from somewhere else.
Sorry, Michael, but this is a crock.
About 10 years ago, the L.A. Times reported statistics showing that
65% of the people in Los Angeles County were BORN HERE.
You are probably looking at a limited subset of L.A. folks, more than
likely young professionals who always seem to want to come here
(from Keokuk, Iowa or Peoria, Illinois, or some other benighted
garden spot). I know a LOT of people who were born here, grew up
here, were educated here, and have never left (or left and came
back -- chastened by the weather or other horrors of the rest of the
world).
>Even within L.A., people never stay in one neighborhood more than
a generation.
This is largely a function of economic mobility. People move up
in their careers, make more money, and find that what was
once attractive to them now seems 'beneath' them. The real estate
folks call it 'trading up'. The hillside home in Riverside that
I owned in the '70s seems pretty grim compared to what I live in
now. On a recent visit out there, I drove by and it wasn't just
my old house that looked 'lower class'. The whole neighborhood
had the same feeling, and it wasn't because it had become run-down.
It looked exactly the same; my perspective had changed. (And, BTW,
it isn't the ethnic flavor of my old vs. new neighborhood. Where I
live now is much more ethnically diverse than the velly-velly-white
neighborhood I lived in back in Riverside.)
Aileen71
I've been reading people's perspectives on this subject, and wanted to put
my 2 cents in. I LOVE LA.
I grew up in Los Angeles and left two years ago for a job in Connecticut;
now I work and live in Manhattan.
You wanna talk about horrible traffic no matter what time of day it is and
on what road? Funny how people say, "Oh, you're not a true New Yorker
until you sell your car" -- but there are millions of cars!! At least in
LA, there ARE tricks and routes and times to avoid jams, and people
actually obey the rules of the road on local streets. In NY, there are NO
lanes (just painted white lines that happen to be there), cabbies out to
kill and potholes that literally send your car airborne. Weird exits leave
you stranded, and workers grow old on the same construction jobs. YOu get
ticketed, towed and fined for EVERYTHING.
The sunsets here are just as bronzed by smog as they are in LA.
YOu wanna talk about crime? I used to jog at midnight in Eagle Rock, Long
Beach and Toluca Lake -- now I get mugged during daylight walking back to
my apartment. People in general are ruder -- yeah, it gets pretty fake in
certain parts of LA with the "do lunch" crowd and plastic pretty people,
but when I'm dealing with someone in passing (like a waiter) I'd rather
have a civil exchange than an "honest" rude verbal bashing.
As an Asian American female, I encounter more out and out stereotypes and
attitudes in NY. I used to walk through East LA barrios and felt safe. Now
I live in an area with lots of Dominicans and other Latinos -- and get
verbally harassed, even hassled. It's like the quality of life is just so
"who-gives-a-shit."
Yet it's true that LA lacks a unified sense of civic pride, whereas you
gotta hand it to New Yorkers -- they got a city, and they live in it. The
public transportation here is extensive -- but it's just as frustrating
waiting for a subway train that broke down as it is sitting on the 405.
(the railroad, however, is cool).
But there are no PALM TREES! and the WEATHER SUCKS!
I'm goin' back to Cali...someday.
--acey
Angelmoon
Aileen71 <aile...@aol.com> wrote in article
<4ud0po$4...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>...
> I've been reading people's perspectives on this subject, and wanted to
put
> my 2 cents in. I LOVE LA.
> people
> actually obey the rules of the road on local streets.
Must not have been here for a while. While some drivers are great, more
and more just do as they darn well please. I could give you examples that
would curl your hair -- or straighten it if it's already curly <g>
I know the NY area is bad, but it is getting worse here and it is something
to be concerned about and work to improve.
> YOu get
> ticketed, towed and fined for EVERYTHING.
I'll give you that one. They don't do enough ticketing here. Guess the
LAPD is too afraid they'll stop another person who will kill them or sue
them.
>
> As an Asian American female, I encounter more out and out stereotypes and
> attitudes in NY. I used to walk through East LA barrios and felt safe.
Now
> I live in an area with lots of Dominicans and other Latinos -- and get
> verbally harassed, even hassled. It's like the quality of life is just so
> "who-gives-a-shit."
Some others could give you a better line on this, but it's gotten worse
here too. I have gotten to the point that I rarely go out alone, except to
places I am VERY sure about. I was less harrassed on the NY subway --
which was a real surprise to me.
>
> But there are no PALM TREES! and the WEATHER SUCKS!
I don't mind the kind of trees so much, but I'll give you the weather!!!!!
<vbg>
>
> --acey
>
I don't hate LA. I thought it was an interesting discussion to try to look
at the whole picture and try to find reasons for decline. We can't work to
improve things until we have thought out what needs to be changed. I have
found the posts interesting and several have pointed out different ideas
that are worth investigation and further thought. That is how I
interpreted the original question, as well.
BTW, good luck on the East coast and enjoy summer while it lasts. :)
--
Angelmoon
Reporter: Were you apprehensive in the twelfth inning?
Yogi Berra: No, but I was scared.
Michael Higby
hel...@aerospace.aero.org (Robert S. Helfman) writes:
>Michael Higby writes:
>>Even within L.A., people never stay in one neighborhood more than
>a generation.
>This is largely a function of economic mobility. People move up
>in their careers, make more money, and find that what was
>once attractive to them now seems 'beneath' them. The real estate
>folks call it 'trading up'.
That's true anywhere, but in many cities, various neighborhoods have varied
enough housing so that families can stay close to each other. Brooklyn, NY is
an example of this.
Unfortuanately, most housing in LA is WWII vintage stock and completely cookie
cutter. There was no way many people could move out of their parents home and
stay close, whether they were just starting out and needed lower rent
accomodations, or once they made it in the world and wanted something a little
better.
The planning of neighborhoods in this manner literally destroyed the
opportunities for extended families and the development of traditional
communities. Much of this, I believe, is the cause for our social and moral
crisis in LA.
Michael Higby
r...@netcom.com (Robert McMillin) writes:
>How many times do I have to keep repeating that LA is a much larger
>and far less densely populated place than San Francisco? Public mass
>transportation is necessarily more expensive and inconvenient than
>private cars because of that.
Houston is even bigger and they have a pretty good system. No doubt, more
cars is not the answer any more.
Michael Higby
Li...@cris.com (Brad) writes:
>The classic example was when some old iranian women pulled into my
>driveway in her top of the line Mercedes with gold trim and walked intoi
>my yard and starting taking the lemons off my tree on my property.
>She told me that she was taking my lemons because they where fresher
>then the ones at the store, when I informed her that she was a common
>thief, she throw my lemon at me (I really should have pressed charges).
You should have chased her off your property with a shotgun. I find such
behaivor appalling by these immigrants, and we should require acculturation
classes for new immigrants and citizens.
Don McKenzie
> LKT...@prodigy.com (Chris Allen) writes:
>
> >Im a long time resident of LA that has slowly watched the quality of life
> >diminish here. Im not sure what has caused this to happen. Does anybody
> >have any opinions? Does anyone think immigration is responsible?
>
been mind-boggling except for the few years of our recent recession. Sure,
it's been a source of problems; we haven't coped with the increased population
at all well. But, although I'm no fan of Riordan, I do believe he's right in
laying much of the blame on our city charter, which gives total power to our
city council. Because the council members' primary loyalty is to their local
constituents, they seem unable to deal with problems on a citywide scale.
It's like the former government of Yugoslavia, composed of warring
factions. The LA County supervisors are no better, which adds to the city's
problems.
If you read the LA Times, you know that Riordan is trying to get an initiative
on an early '97 ballot to ameliorate the situation.
--
Don McKenzie, Hollywood, CA
"Liberal = 1. Favorable to progress or reform..."
Random House unabridged dictionary
Charles P. Hobbs
MHi...@Primenet.com (Michael Higby) wrote:
> r...@netcom.com (Robert McMillin) writes:
>
>>How many times do I have to keep repeating that LA is a much larger
>>and far less densely populated place than San Francisco? Public mass
>>transportation is necessarily more expensive and inconvenient than
>>private cars because of that.
>
>Houston is even bigger and they have a pretty good system. No doubt, more
>cars is not the answer any more.
I don't know that much about Houston. Don't they mostly use
reversible busways (single lanes that operate into the city in the
morning, and out of the city in the evening?)
Michael Higby
I thought they had a lot of high tech type stuff, like peoplemovers???
Michael Higby
mca...@wavenet.com (Don McKenzie) writes:
>I've been here 50 years. Immigration, including that from other states, has
>been mind-boggling except for the few years of our recent recession. Sure,
>it's been a source of problems; we haven't coped with the increased population
>at all well. But, although I'm no fan of Riordan, I do believe he's right in
>laying much of the blame on our city charter, which gives total power to our
>city council. Because the council members' primary loyalty is to their local
>constituents, they seem unable to deal with problems on a citywide scale.
>It's like the former government of Yugoslavia, composed of warring
>factions. The LA County supervisors are no better, which adds to the city's
>problems.
>If you read the LA Times, you know that Riordan is trying to get an initiative
>on an early '97 ballot to ameliorate the situation.
Its not just the council, because populists get elected and can be effective,
if strong. The problem is with the myriad of city commissions that actually
weaken the power of the elected mayor and council. The commission members are
almost like a landed nobility with czar-like powers over the daily operation
of the city. All of these commissioners come from an exclusive club of well
heeled political donors, downtown lawyers and developers, public employee
union officials and special interest group "leaders." The commissioners are
nearly impossible to remove from office (other than being strongarmed to
resign) and are answerable to no one. Worse, the heads of each city
department report only to the commissions and are accountable only to them.
Other than some minor changes to allow the Chief of Police to be removed (a
response to the reign of Daryl Gates), it is nearly impossible to remove a
department head. Since most of the commissioners do not come from the
communities in which they serve, local residents voices are not heard at City
Hall.
The only answer, in my view, is to completely restructure LA city government,
starting with the abolishment of all these commissions. We need a New York
City style of borough government, where decisions are made in the local
communities in which they occur. If residents want to redevelop a local park,
it would be decided upon in the local neighborhood. Local issues would be
decided locally. Each community would have its own borough or neighborhood
council, made up of members elected locally. They would also send their
represenatives to the larger City Council, a part time body that would decide
the city budget and deal with issues larger than a neighborhood focus. In
order to provide checks and balances, citizens could appeal controversial
decisions by their neighborhood council to the City Council, if necessary.
Department heads would be appointed by the mayor and approved or rejected by
the City Council. A majority of neighborhood councils could overturn a
confirmation or veto of a mayoral appointee by the City Council. The
department heads would report daily to the mayor.
I also think the MTA (Metropolitan Transportation Authority) should be
reformed as well. First off, their board should be elected so that they are
accountable to the public. Secondly, they should be broken up so that their
only mission is to build rail systems and provide inter-city transportation
(commuter bus, etc.). Individual cities would take over their own local
intra-city bus operations (as many already do) and merge them into the various
public transit operations they already run (such as the City of LA's DASH).
Cities unable to run their own operations, could contract with other
cities, the MTA or private concerns.
While we're at it, get rid of LA County. County government is a throwback to
a more rural time. Now that LA County is nearly all urban, there is no need
for this extra layer of government, which has been more ineffective than
anything else.
County functions (many of which are duplications of city functions) could be
turned over to the respective citites. Unincorporated areas and smaller
cities could contract out their services to either the larger cities (who
could compete for these contracts!) and/or private enterprise (where
appropriate).
Unfortuanately, the powers that be are so entrenched, reform is unlikely on
all three fronts. The public employee unions, developers, lawyers and special
interest groups are far too powerful, and, until they are reined in, true
reform and good government is unlikely.
Nosnag Selrahc
Michael Higby wrote:
>
> Li...@cris.com (Brad) writes:
>
> >The classic example was when some old iranian women pulled into my
> >driveway in her top of the line Mercedes with gold trim and walked intoi
> >my yard and starting taking the lemons off my tree on my property.
>
> >She told me that she was taking my lemons because they where fresher
> >then the ones at the store, when I informed her that she was a common
> >thief, she throw my lemon at me (I really should have pressed charges).
>
> You should have chased her off your property with a shotgun.
A slight overreaction?
Why not just borrow her car for a little drive,
since it looked so much fresher ...
Unless you really needed the target practice,
of course.
... --- ...
http://nosnag.home.ml.org
http://www.hooked.net/~cganson
(I was just joking, as was Michael ... I hope)
Brad
: >The classic example was when some old iranian women pulled into my
: >driveway in her top of the line Mercedes with gold trim and walked intoi
: >my yard and starting taking the lemons off my tree on my property.
: >She told me that she was taking my lemons because they where fresher
: >then the ones at the store, when I informed her that she was a common
: >thief, she throw my lemon at me (I really should have pressed charges).
: You should have chased her off your property with a shotgun. I find such
: behaivor appalling by these immigrants, and we should require acculturation
: classes for new immigrants and citizens.
They she would have gone to the local iranian community center, and they
would have called the cops and filed a false police report. These people
may be rude and obnoxious but they know how to milk that "I'm a refugee"
routine to the max. I actually had another Iranian smash my front window
and she confessed to police and the DA refused to prosecute after she
went into the "I'm a refugee song & dance." (this was after I screamed at
her for dumping trash on my lawn).
Of course my little feud turned the corner when one of them start talking
about burining down my house and raping my wife. Hate crimes laws are
such fun...
What was really disgusting was how 'our' old city council man
(Yaroslavsky) would sabotage every attempt by people in our neighborhood
to get the city to enforce zoning, traffic, and noise laws against our
Iranian neighbors. He would actively interfear, double deal with us, even
get parking enforcement to stop ticketing them for blocking alleys. The
typically useless LAPD actually admitted to me and few other neighbors
that they would NEVER cite them for noise violations (when they had
parties with a sound system that could be heard a block away).
When we got a new city councilman (yaroslavsky is now screwing up the
entire county of LA as a supervisor), things changed really quick. The
city started looking to zoning problems, we got permit only parking,
and the city is making about $10,000 a month in parking tickets on
one block in my neighborhood.
In spite of all the claims that Los Angeles is racist, I have found
that many ethnic groups are basically allowed to ignore the law if they
are a politically correct group. I never see the LAPD ticketing hispanics
for illegal vending (which is a health hazard, tax evasion, and takes
business anyway from local unionized supermarkets, not to mention that
many street venders are also in possession of stolen property, shopping
carts which they steal from local unionized super markets, loses which
contribute to lower wages for unionized employees and consumers).
Also compare the way the R. L. Master (white) was treated by the legal
system for defending himself against armed La Raza skinheads, to how
lightly that korean storekeeper was treated after shooting a 14 yearold
black girl in the back of the head for shop lifting.
: -----
: BooZoo Comics - The Net's Newest Zine
: Meet Jennifer, our sweetheart.
: Visit Also Our El Chupacabra Page And
: North Hollywood, our hometown. Go now to
: http://www.primenet.com/~mhigby/index.htm
: -----
:
welsh@otter.monterey.edu Shari Welsh
Gee I'd like to pick your lemons too, who can blame her???
welsh@otter.monterey.edu Shari Welsh
welsh@otter.monterey.edu Shari Welsh
welsh@otter.monterey.edu Shari Welsh
Ray Mullins
In article <4ugp5q$3...@nnrp1.news.primenet.com>,
Charles P. Hobbs <tra...@primenet.com> wrote:
>MHi...@Primenet.com (Michael Higby) wrote:
>> r...@netcom.com (Robert McMillin) writes:
>>
>>>How many times do I have to keep repeating that LA is a much larger
>>>and far less densely populated place than San Francisco? Public mass
>>>transportation is necessarily more expensive and inconvenient than
>>>private cars because of that.
>>
>>Houston is even bigger and they have a pretty good system. No doubt, more
>>cars is not the answer any more.
>
>I don't know that much about Houston. Don't they mostly use
>reversible busways (single lanes that operate into the city in the
>morning, and out of the city in the evening?)
>
business in the CBD of Houston, and therefor a lot of service via
the busway lanes. Many of the busway lanes, which are also HOV lanes,
are 2 lanes, so cars can pass the buses.
Bus service to IAH isn't that good (102 IAH Express, M-F only, but all day),
but to HOU (Hobby) it's excellent. Five lines serve Hobby, with 3
terminating there, including the 73 Bellfort Crosstown which gives good
crosstown service and serves the Galleria so you can easily get to areas
in Western Houston.
Later,
Ray
--
M. Ray Mullins, Arlington TX (the largest city without a transit system,
and site of the regional headquarters of the FTA)
m...@lerami.lerctr.org
http://www.lerctr.org/~mrm; SoCalTIP: http://socaltip.lerctr.org
Don McKenzie
In article <MHigby.303...@Primenet.com>, MHi...@Primenet.com
(Michael Higby) wrote:
> Li...@cris.com (Brad) writes:
>
> >The classic example was when some old iranian women pulled into my
> >driveway in her top of the line Mercedes with gold trim and walked intoi
> >my yard and starting taking the lemons off my tree on my property.
>
> >She told me that she was taking my lemons because they where fresher
> >then the ones at the store, when I informed her that she was a common
> >thief, she throw my lemon at me (I really should have pressed charges).
>
> You should have chased her off your property with a shotgun. I find such
> behaivor appalling by these immigrants, and we should require acculturation
> classes for new immigrants and citizens.
> -----
Bad advice. Starting armed warfare is a Hatfield/McCoy solution. The law
it invokes is mainly the law of unintended consequences.
da...@gateway.ecn.com
The reason of "decline" is the corruption of the "people representatives"
who represent only their real supporters, the ones with the money and
business interests. E.g., the councilmen...
Mark Levy
bad. I agree with Dan on this one.
The city is too big and represents so many interests that it cannot get
on the whole, anything good done.
Take a look at the cities that are self-incorporated and are not part of
L.A. City like Santa Monica,
El Segundo, the beach cities(Manhattan, Hermosa and Redondo) also Culver
City. These cities are in much
better shape because they make decisions that directly affect their own
communities. I say break up L.A.
into smaller more managable chunks. It would be better all around.
Brad
Xander (xand...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: On 9 Aug 1996 13:11:02 -0700, MHi...@Primenet.com (Michael Higby)
: wrote:
: > Li...@cris.com (Brad) writes:
: >
: >>The classic example was when some old iranian women pulled into my
: >>driveway in her top of the line Mercedes with gold trim and walked intoi
: >>my yard and starting taking the lemons off my tree on my property.
: >
: >>She told me that she was taking my lemons because they where fresher
: >>then the ones at the store, when I informed her that she was a common
: >>thief, she throw my lemon at me (I really should have pressed charges).
: >
: >You should have chased her off your property with a shotgun. I find such
: >behaivor appalling by these immigrants, and we should require acculturation
: >classes for new immigrants and citizens.
: ....Where you would presumably teach them to act what? American? Do you
: think that it is Iranian custom to pick lemons from your neighbor's
: yards or that it was a PERSONAL shortcoming of that particular woman?
: Do you not know any Americans brazen enough to have done the same
: thing?
Although other may steal lemons off my tree that at least have the
politeness not to do it in front of my face, or while flauting the
fact that they are so wealth they can drive a car that costs about double
what most people in my neighbor make in a year. It is an example of a
pattern of excessively rude and amazing self-centered (even by american
standards) behavior. In spite of her obvious wealth, what I was reminded
of was how gang members act. - What is ours is ours, and what is yours is
ours. - But what can you expect from people who are refugees from they own
people.
Robert McMillin
Feh. Lynwood and Compton are independent cities, and what good does
it do them? The cities you cite are have largely white and fairly to
very affluent residents. Corruption, real or imagined, by dat ol'
debbil 'money power' has a lot less to do with the health of a
community than the wealth of the people who live there. Take the
Valley out of LA and you've got another Washington, DC: high crime,
50%+ unemployment, and on.
If you've got to pin a tail to the donkey of decline, I'd say it's the
vaguely liberal leanings of the city council. Not, of course, that
anyone could blame them, given that the franchise is presently
extended to anyone too clueless or lazy to get a job. Welfare has
become a job, and the stats from LA county bear me out. The {Times},
in a fit of honesty, actually published a precinct-by-precinct map
showing what percentage in each is on the dole. In some places -- I'm
not making this up -- 50% or more are sucking it in. It's just
astonishing -- some of the city's oldest neighborhoods are completely
overrun with welfare recipients.
So... given all of this, and given the upcoming welfare reform
effects, I think we can all look forward to the following:
- Lower housing prices. The rental real estate market, especially
that in the city's core, will plummet in value as those who used to
get a check for channel surfing, don't. Adjacent cities will see
similar markdowns.
- Higher crime. Hey, ex-welfare recipients gotta eat somehow, right?
Expect LAPD to be absolutely worthless if this turns into real mass
hysteria. They don't come *now* unless there's blood on the
street...
- Winking at civil rights. If you think Rodney King had it bad in his
15 minutes, wait 'til you see what cheap, replaceable private
security guards will be able to get away with.
I'm normally pretty libertarian on these matters, but I'm wondering if
maybe the best idea here WRT welfare isn't something like this:
- If you're presently on welfare, you can stay there indefinitely.
- No children beyond what you currently have made are allowed or will
be paid for. You make a mouth, you feed it.
- No new AFDC cases will be taken in after January 1, 1997.
The idea here is to cut off benefits slowly enough to prevent total
rioting. But it must be done; resources are not infinite.
Robert S. Helfman
In article <320e2b26...@nntp.ix.netcom.com> xand...@ix.netcom.com writes:
>On 9 Aug 1996 13:11:02 -0700, MHi...@Primenet.com (Michael Higby)
>wrote:
>
>> Li...@cris.com (Brad) writes:
>>
>>>The classic example was when some old iranian women pulled into my
>>>driveway in her top of the line Mercedes with gold trim and walked intoi
>>>my yard and starting taking the lemons off my tree on my property.
>>
>>>She told me that she was taking my lemons because they where fresher
>>>then the ones at the store, when I informed her that she was a common
>>>thief, she throw my lemon at me (I really should have pressed charges).
>>
>Do you think that it is Iranian custom to pick lemons from your neighbor's
>yards or that it was a PERSONAL shortcoming of that particular woman?
>Do you not know any Americans brazen enough to have done the same
>thing?
This little demi-war brings to mind an amusing (and possibly, but not
likely, apocryphal) story from early-60's Riverside lore.
In the days before the 60 (Pomona) freeway, the eastern approach to
Riverside was via Box Springs Grade and Pennsylvania Avenue (now
Martin Luther King, Jr. Blvd.). Pennsylvania Ave. ran through a mile or
so of orange groves. Apparently, some freshly-arriving
East-coast family was so amazed to
see the oranges growing on trees that they stopped to pick some. A
passing Riverside County sheriff was not amused and arrested the whole family
for grand theft (It is a felony in California to steal -- and
that means picking fruit off trees as well as
hijacking trucks-full -- oranges, lemons, grapefruit,
or avocadoes.)
A couple of months ago, a friend and I were in the Riverside area on a
nostalgic visit (I lived there from 1963 to 1979). I
drove my friend out to the northeast corner of town where I had once lived
in a rented orange-grove house. When I mentioned that I often walked through
the groves picking oranges and eating them on the spot, my friend insisted
that we stop and sample fruit off the (few) remaining trees in the
neighborhood (it's clean-and-prissy light industry now). We did so, and
finished off a couple of juicy Washington navel oranges. When we got back in
the car, we were astounded to discover that not more than 500 feet
farther down the road at the next intersection was the
headquarters of the Riverside County Sheriff's Dept. -- apparently
built during my 15 year absence.
We both fell out with laughter. Fortunately, no deputies had happened by to
John Kawakami
In article <4um0s0$5...@herald.concentric.net>, Li...@cris.com (Brad) wrote:
> Xander (xand...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
> : On 9 Aug 1996 13:11:02 -0700, MHi...@Primenet.com (Michael Higby)
> : wrote:
>
> : > Li...@cris.com (Brad) writes:
> : >
> : >>The classic example was when some old iranian women pulled into my
> : >>driveway in her top of the line Mercedes with gold trim and walked intoi
> : >>my yard and starting taking the lemons off my tree on my property.
> : >
> : >>She told me that she was taking my lemons because they where fresher
> : >>then the ones at the store, when I informed her that she was a common
> : >>thief, she throw my lemon at me (I really should have pressed charges).
> : >
> : >You should have chased her off your property with a shotgun. I find such
> : >behaivor appalling by these immigrants, and we should require
acculturation
> : >classes for new immigrants and citizens.
>
> : ....Where you would presumably teach them to act what? American? Do you
> : think that it is Iranian custom to pick lemons from your neighbor's
> : yards or that it was a PERSONAL shortcoming of that particular woman?
> : Do you not know any Americans brazen enough to have done the same
> : thing?
>
> Although other may steal lemons off my tree that at least have the
> politeness not to do it in front of my face, or while flauting the
> fact that they are so wealth they can drive a car that costs about double
> what most people in my neighbor make in a year. It is an example of a
> pattern of excessively rude and amazing self-centered (even by american
> standards) behavior. In spite of her obvious wealth, what I was reminded
> of was how gang members act. - What is ours is ours, and what is yours is
> ours. - But what can you expect from people who are refugees from they own
> people.
Personally, I think that this woman's attitude was a personal one, and not
representative of the behavior of all Iranians. The fact that she threw
the lemon at you indicates to me that she's a little loony.
In many countries with a small affluent class and a large number of poor
people, the rich feel that the poor have no rights. This attitude usually
stems from the fact that, in fact, the poor have no rights <grin>.
Furthermore, when middle class people come to this country (whether from
Iran, France, Taiwan, or Japan), they make some effort to "blend in", but
won't change their basic attitudes about people, life, and other core
values. After all, they have money, so how can they be wrong? <double
grin>
It's just like when Americans go over to Mexico, buy a house, and boss the
Mexicans around. After all, they have the money, so how can they be
wrong? <triple grin>
These middle class immigrants, whom I call the global mobile middle class,
come to America because it's the center of the capitalist world, the taxes
are low (lower than other western nations), and it's easy to start a
business. These people know the business game, and play it to win.
Perhaps they believe that they can abuse people on the street as well as
in the marketplace.
John K.
John Kawakami
jo...@crl.com
Aileen71
<Must not have been here for a while. While some drivers <are great, more
<and more just do as they darn well please. I could give <you examples
that
<would curl your hair -- or straighten it if it's already <curly <g>
<I know the NY area is bad, but it is getting worse here and <it is
something
<to be concerned about and work to improve.
drive-by freeway shootings. :)
>> YOu get
>> ticketed, towed and fined for EVERYTHING.
>I'll give you that one. They don't do enough ticketing here. >Guess the
>LAPD is too afraid they'll stop another person who will >kill them or sue
>them.
Not in my cases. I think they were just more susceptible to my tears than
NY cops are. :)
<<stuff deleted>>
>
>I don't hate LA. I thought it was an interesting discussion >to try to
look
Ditto.
>BTW, good luck on the East coast and enjoy summer while >it lasts. :)
--
>Angelmoon
Thanks. Summer's been good. Last winter kicked my ass.
--acey
Michael Higby
<some...@hooked.net> writes:
>Michael Higby wrote:
>>
>> Li...@cris.com (Brad) writes:
>>
>> >The classic example was when some old iranian women pulled into my
>> >driveway in her top of the line Mercedes with gold trim and walked intoi
>> >my yard and starting taking the lemons off my tree on my property.
>>
>> >She told me that she was taking my lemons because they where fresher
>> >then the ones at the store, when I informed her that she was a common
>> >thief, she throw my lemon at me (I really should have pressed charges).
>>
>> You should have chased her off your property with a shotgun.
>A slight overreaction?
>Why not just borrow her car for a little drive,
>since it looked so much fresher ...
>Unless you really needed the target practice,
>of course.
Damn! Just for fun, I take a Republican point of view and my liberal
chickens come home to roost!
>http://nosnag.home.ml.org
>http://www.hooked.net/~cganson
>(I was just joking, as was Michael ... I hope)
-----
Raul Franco
On 10 Aug 1996, Brad wrote:
> Michael Higby (MHi...@Primenet.com) wrote:
> : Li...@cris.com (Brad) writes:
>
> : >The classic example was when some old iranian women pulled into my
> : >driveway in her top of the line Mercedes with gold trim and walked intoi
> : >my yard and starting taking the lemons off my tree on my property.
>
> : >She told me that she was taking my lemons because they where fresher
> : >then the ones at the store, when I informed her that she was a common
> : >thief, she throw my lemon at me (I really should have pressed charges).
Yeah, right!!! And santa claus came into your house and took back the
gifts he had left the previous night, right? Pathetic what stories
people make up to advance their agenda... even more pathetic are the
people who believe them...
Raul... c/s
.
. .
Nosnag Selrahc
Colin R. Leech wrote:
>
> Michael Higby (MHi...@Primenet.com) writes:
> > Department heads would be appointed by the mayor and approved or rejected by
> > department heads would report daily to the mayor.
>
> (perhaps substituting "council" for "mayor" appointing the heads, but
> that's a minor quibble) that I find it amazing that this isn't already the
> case.
>
> > While we're at it, get rid of LA County. ...
> > Now that LA County is nearly all urban, there is no need
> > for this extra layer of government, which has been more ineffective than
> > anything else.
>
>
> > County functions (many of which are duplications of city functions) could be
> > turned over to the respective citites. Unincorporated areas and smaller
> > cities could contract out their services to either the larger cities (who
> > could compete for these contracts!) and/or private enterprise (where
> > appropriate).
>
> somebody has to provide a government.
The funny part is that whenever somebody makes reasonable suggestions
such as those quoted above, the average person says it can't be done,
for various off-hand reasons. The same average person distrusts all
politicians, all government, etc., playing both ends against the middle.
And so year after year, the average person flip-flops
from one party to the other, Tweedledee and Tweedledum,
usually voting against whatever he voted for last time,
(when he can even remember which way he voted last time).
The result is stagnation and corruption in government.
(I reduced the newsgroups line, and hope that is appropriate.)
... --- ...
Angelmoon
Aileen71 <aile...@aol.com> wrote in article
<4uo9r3$o...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>...
> >I'll give you that one. They don't do enough ticketing here. >Guess
the
> >LAPD is too afraid they'll stop another person who will >kill them or
sue
> >them.
> Not in my cases. I think they were just more susceptible to my tears than
> NY cops are. :)
>
LOL! Lately I worry more about the cops than ever before. Every few weeks
one of them is shot while performing regulare cop-type duties. We (as a
whole state of people) need to support them more. They are human and do
make mistakes, but golly, they put their lives on the line every day.
> <<stuff deleted>>
> >
> >I don't hate LA. I thought it was an interesting discussion >to try to
> look
> Ditto.
>
> >BTW, good luck on the East coast and enjoy summer while >it lasts. :)
> --
> >Angelmoon
>
> Thanks. Summer's been good. Last winter kicked my ass.
> --acey
>
This winter probably will, too. (This expert information comes from hubby
who grew up on the East coast.) <g>
--
Angelmoon
Line up alphabetically by height.
Casey Stengel
Colin R. Leech
Michael Higby (MHi...@Primenet.com) writes:
> Department heads would be appointed by the mayor and approved or rejected by
> the City Council. ... The
> department heads would report daily to the mayor.
This seems like such an obvious way to structure a municipal government
(perhaps substituting "council" for "mayor" appointing the heads, but
that's a minor quibble) that I find it amazing that this isn't already the
case.
> While we're at it, get rid of LA County. ...
> Now that LA County is nearly all urban, there is no need
> for this extra layer of government, which has been more ineffective than
> anything else.
Ditto.
> County functions (many of which are duplications of city functions) could be
> turned over to the respective citites. Unincorporated areas and smaller
> cities could contract out their services to either the larger cities (who
> could compete for these contracts!) and/or private enterprise (where
> appropriate).
No need for duplication. There should not be any unincorporated areas -
somebody has to provide a government.
--
##### |\^/| Colin R. Leech ag414 or crl...@freenet.carleton.ca
##### _|\| |/|_ Civil engineer by training, transport planner by choice.
##### > < Opinions are my own. Consider them shareware if you want.
##### >_./|\._< "If you can't return a favour, pass it on." - A.L. Brown
Syd
Mark Levy (mark...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: Take a look at the cities that are self-incorporated and are not part of
: L.A. City like Santa Monica,
: El Segundo, the beach cities(Manhattan, Hermosa and Redondo) also Culver
: City. These cities are in much
: better shape because they make decisions that directly affect their own
: communities.
Like keeping out those pesky "ethnic" people?
--
Dennis P. Hilgenberg
s...@cyberverse.com
Fringe Ryder
Robert S. Helfman (hel...@aerospace.aero.org) wrote:
: In article <MHigby.303...@Primenet.com> MHi...@Primenet.com (Michael Higby) writes:
: >...LA is made up of people almost all from somewhere else.
: Sorry, Michael, but this is a crock.
: About 10 years ago, the L.A. Times reported statistics showing that
: 65% of the people in Los Angeles County were BORN HERE.
3 years ago the L.A. times reported that 90% of the babies born in public
hospitals were to illegal or first generation immigrants from Central
America (including Mexico.) Given that rate, sure, 65% of the people in
L.A. are born there, but they don't speak English or have an education.
Stan
Not necessarily. Pasadena, for example, has a significant non-Anglo
population, yet city services here are much better than in Los Angeles.
"Ethnic"
has nothing to do with it. The fact remains that smaller
independent cities tend to be easier to manage than a huge city like LA.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stan Schwarz | "I just want to live like Yogi Bear
st...@bombay.gps.caltech.edu | He kicks ass on the average bear."
---------------------------------------------------- -Stukas Over Bedrock -----
Jeremy Leader
Colin R. Leech wrote:
> Michael Higby (MHi...@Primenet.com) writes:
> > Now that LA County is nearly all urban, there is no need
> > for this extra layer of government, which has been more ineffective than
> > anything else.
Except LA County *isn't* "nearly all urban". There are several large
rural (and even wilderness) areas within the county. Currently, some
of the outlying parts of the City of LA complain that they don't get
enough attention from city government; imagine how someone out in
Antelope Valley would feel!
> > County functions (many of which are duplications of city functions) could be
> > turned over to the respective citites. Unincorporated areas and smaller
> > cities could contract out their services to either the larger cities (who
> > could compete for these contracts!) and/or private enterprise (where
> > appropriate).
>
> No need for duplication. There should not be any unincorporated areas -
> somebody has to provide a government.
Which is what the county does. "Unicorporated areas" are areas that
have only county government, with no local city. I don't see how having
the county providing functions to some areas, and cities providing them
to other areas, is any worse than having different cities providing them
to different areas.
Now if the cities and the County are providing the same functions to the
same areas, that's wasteful duplication, and should be eliminated. But
that doesn't mean the County shouldn't still provide those functions to
areas that need them.
Note that I'm no great fan of how LA County is run, nor of how the City
of LA is run. I'm just dubious that combining the two would improve
things.
Incidentally, isn't ca.general for CAnada, not CAlifornia?
--
Jeremy Leader
Worlds, Inc.
Tujunga, CA, USA
818-951-0608, fax 818-273-0026
Angelmoon
Fringe Ryder <fri...@netcom.com> wrote in article
<fringeDw...@netcom.com>...
>
> 3 years ago the L.A. times reported that 90% of the babies born in public
> hospitals were to illegal or first generation immigrants from Central
> America (including Mexico.) Given that rate, sure, 65% of the people in
> L.A. are born there, but they don't speak English or have an education.
>
Wow! that explains the decline alright.
--
Angelmoon
Fiction wrtiting is great. You can make up almost anything. - Ivana Trump
DaveHatunen
In article <32109A6D...@bombay.gps.caltech.edu>,
Stan <st...@bombay.gps.caltech.edu> wrote:
[...]
>"Ethnic"
> has nothing to do with it. The fact remains that smaller
>independent cities tend to be easier to manage than a huge city like LA.
Well, duh.
--
********** DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@netcom.com) **********
* Daly City California *
* Between San Francisco and South San Francisco *
*******************************************************
Michael Higby
ag...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Colin R. Leech) writes:
>No need for duplication. There should not be any unincorporated areas -
>somebody has to provide a government.
Thanks for your "endorsement" of my "platform" in the snipped part.
I agree regarding unincorporated areas in LA. I think most of the previously
unincorporated areas have become cities of their own. Most of the
unincorporated areas now are populated by jackrabbits, but there may be a few
communities with significant populations left in LA County. East LA may be
one. Lets get those incorporated and then dump the county.
-----
BooZoo Comics - The Net's Newest Zine
Visit North Hollywood, our hometown.
Michael Higby
Jeremy Leader <jle...@alumni.caltech.edu> writes:
>> Michael Higby (MHi...@Primenet.com) writes:
>> > While we're at it, get rid of LA County. ...
>> > Now that LA County is nearly all urban, there is no need
>> > for this extra layer of government, which has been more ineffective than
>> > anything else.
>Except LA County *isn't* "nearly all urban". There are several large
>rural (and even wilderness) areas within the county. Currently, some
>of the outlying parts of the City of LA complain that they don't get
>enough attention from city government; imagine how someone out in
>Antelope Valley would feel!
Most of those areas have very small populations. Your argument about how
someone in the AV would feel makes the point that the county is useless.
Palmdale and Lancaster are two decent sized cities in the AV and are probably
better suited to serve the needs of places like Pearblossom and Little Rock
that big, bad King Mike Antonovich all the way (almost 100 miles!) in downtown
LA. Even if towns like PB and LR wanted to remain unincorporated and not be
annexed by Palmdale, there is no reason they couldn't contract with Palmdale
or Lancaster for essential services, or form a township.
>> > County functions (many of which are duplications of city functions) could
>> >be turned over to the respective citites. Unincorporated areas and
>> >smaller cities could contract out their services to either the larger
>> >cities (who could compete for these contracts!) and/or private
>> >enterprise (where appropriate).
>> >No need for duplication. There should not be any unincorporated areas
>> >somebody has to provide a government.
>Which is what the county does. "Unicorporated areas" are areas that
>have only county government, with no local city. I don't see how having
>the county providing functions to some areas, and cities providing them
>to other areas, is any worse than having different cities providing them
>to different areas.
Because the county duplicates many, many functions of city government. For
example, the City of West Hollywood, completely surrounded in a salamander
type shape by the City of LA, uses the LA County Sheriff for law enforcement.
Why not just contract with LAPD, which is right next door. Or better yet,
with the county out of the way, local governments could compete with each
other to provide services to these cities. For example, maybe Santa Monica,
LA, Culver City and Burbank would all put in bids to provide police
protection. Santa Monica makes the best offer and gets the bid. The other
cities study this, make changes to their operation, and try again next time
the services are out to bid. Maybe this time Burbank wins. This is how its
done in the corporate world and I think the competition would make the service
of a higher quality and more cost-effective. Eventually, West Hollywood could
develop their own local force. No reason for a county here.
>Now if the cities and the County are providing the same functions to the
>same areas, that's wasteful duplication, and should be eliminated. But
>that doesn't mean the County shouldn't still provide those functions to
>areas that need them.
Whose going to decide who should stop providing duplicate services? The
county will want to do their thing, as will the city. If the county is too
far away from the area where services are being provided, that could hamper
delivery as well.
>Note that I'm no great fan of how LA County is run, nor of how the City
>of LA is run. I'm just dubious that combining the two would improve
>things.
I'm not suggesting combining, but it makes sense that within the City of LA,
for example, the few services the County of LA provides to it, could be
handled by the city. Other areas will find similar things.
>Incidentally, isn't ca.general for CAnada, not CAlifornia?
Not to my understanding.
Jeremy Leader
I wrote:
> >Incidentally, isn't ca.general for CAnada, not CAlifornia?
and Michael Higby corrected me:
> Not to my understanding.
Sorry, I was confusing the newsgroup hierarchy ca.* (for California)
with the DNS domain name *.ca (for Canada). The newsgroup hierarchy
for Canada is can.*.
Brad
Raul Franco (rfr...@charon.usc.edu) wrote:
: Raul... c/s
So Raul what agenda am I advancing? Stating one of numerious examples of
excessively rude behavior by the Iranian Community in my neighborhood,
does not make an agenda. Just a statement of how many immigrants
(including legal ones) have played a direct role in the rising tide of
anti-immigration feelings in California. I used to be very pro-immigrant
rights, and I used to think that most people who bitched about illegals
where just racist. Then I moved to LA, and my liberalism got a dose of
reality.
: .
: . .
John Kawakami
In article <fringeDw...@netcom.com>, fri...@netcom.com (Fringe Ryder)
wrote:
> 3 years ago the L.A. times reported that 90% of the babies born in public
> hospitals were to illegal or first generation immigrants from Central
> America (including Mexico.) Given that rate, sure, 65% of the people in
> L.A. are born there, but they don't speak English or have an education.
I don't get it. They wouldn't speak english because their parents are
illegals? That doesn't make any sense. Why wouldn't they have an
education? They can go to school.
John Kawakami
jo...@crl.com
Gsoma
Li...@cris.com (Brad) writes:
>
>In spite of all the claims that Los Angeles is racist, I have found
>that many ethnic groups are basically allowed to ignore the law if they
>are a politically correct group. I never see the LAPD ticketing hispanics
>for illegal vending (which is a health hazard, tax evasion, and takes
>business anyway from local unionized supermarkets, not to mention that
>many street venders are also in possession of stolen property, shopping
>carts which they steal from local unionized super markets, loses which
>contribute to lower wages for unionized employees and consumers).
What is the definition of a "politically correct group"?
LAPD ran a raid of (probably) illegal (hispanic) street vendors over at
Olvera Street about a month ago.
Many of them were not bothered which leads me to believe that they have
permits
---
"He threw him like a dart"
-The Living Legend Larry Zybysko on Nash planting Rey Misterio
jr. into the side of the trailer
Ray Mullins
In article <MHigby.306...@Primenet.com>,>>No need for duplication. There should not be any unincorporated areas -
>>somebody has to provide a government.
>
>
>I agree regarding unincorporated areas in LA. I think most of the previously
>unincorporated areas have become cities of their own. Most of the
>unincorporated areas now are populated by jackrabbits, but there may be a few
>communities with significant populations left in LA County. East LA may be
>one. Lets get those incorporated and then dump the county.
>
An alternative plan is to merge City and County services, a la Miami and
Seattle. Of course then you have the standoff between Chief Willie and
Sheriff Peter, which is easily solved by sending them both off on a
prepaid trip to Las Vegas and hiring someone from outside to run things.
You will still need a county-level government, which should be expanded to
between 9 and 15 supervisors. I believe the 5 comes from something in the
California Constitution that limits supervisors to 5, which worked in the
early 20th century.
But 100? Egad, then you have another Congress.
Later,
Ray
--
M. Ray Mullins, Arlington TX (the largest city without a transit system,
and site of the regional headquarters of the FTA)
m...@lerami.lerctr.org
http://www.lerctr.org/~mrm; SoCalTIP: http://socaltip.lerctr.org
R_G
John Kawakami wrote:
> illegals? That doesn't make any sense. Why wouldn't they have an
> education? They can go to school.
>
Education? You been to the LA City schools lately?
Robert S. Helfman
In article <fringeDw...@netcom.com> fri...@netcom.com (Fringe Ryder) writes:
>Robert S. Helfman (hel...@aerospace.aero.org) wrote:
>: In article <MHigby.303...@Primenet.com> MHi...@Primenet.com (Michael Higby) writes:
>
>: >...LA is made up of people almost all from somewhere else.
>
>: Sorry, Michael, but this is a crock.
>
>: About 10 years ago, the L.A. Times reported statistics showing that
>: 65% of the people in Los Angeles County were BORN HERE.
>
>hospitals were to illegal or first generation immigrants from Central
>America (including Mexico.) Given that rate, sure, 65% of the people in
>L.A. are born there, but they don't speak English or have an education.
First, public hospitals are very much the minority in Southern California.
The vast majority of hospitals are private. The public (county)
hospitals are specifically there for the indigent population.
Your alarmist figures would have a lot more impact if you showed what
percentage of babies born in ALL area hospitals were children of
illegals. (And your ill-disguised dislike for immigrants is showing.
You seem to be lumping legal immigrants in with illegal ones. How
very convenient...)
They won't have an education if you and the Republicans and the nativists
deny them an education. Sure, keep them out of the schools so they
can stand on some street corner trying to make a hustle any way
they can. I hope it's YOUR house they break into instead of mine.
If you're born in America, you are an American, regardless of what
language you speak. When are you nativist creeps going to remember
why your own forebearers came here? You're worse than the Germans,
who still deny citizenship to their gast-arbeiters from Turkey, despite
those workers having been in Germany for nearly 30 years. It's repulsive.
Raul Franco
On 14 Aug 1996, Brad wrote:
> Raul Franco (rfr...@charon.usc.edu) wrote:
> : On 10 Aug 1996, Brad wrote:
>
> So Raul what agenda am I advancing? Stating one of numerious examples of
> excessively rude behavior by the Iranian Community in my neighborhood,
> does not make an agenda. Just a statement of how many immigrants
> (including legal ones) have played a direct role in the rising tide of
> anti-immigration feelings in California. I used to be very pro-immigrant
> rights, and I used to think that most people who bitched about illegals
> where just racist. Then I moved to LA, and my liberalism got a dose of
> reality.
>
Let's just say I didn't believe your "story."
So, you moved to LA too, just like *all* the other immigrants... maybe we
should build a wall *all* around the state.
Raul.... c/s
.
. .
Raul Franco
On Wed, 14 Aug 1996, Tony wrote:
> Li...@cris.com (Brad) wrote:
>
> Well Brad, welcome to the club. As I said in another thread -- I used
> to feel sorry for all the illegals until watched in horror those who
> were illegally from Mexico protesting (on US soil) against the issue of
> US citizens simply even considering having the possibility to vote for
> (or even against) California's prop 187. This is not to say that prop
> 187 was good law. In fact I had planned to vote against it.
How the _FU**_ do you know they were illegal??? I was there and my entire
family was there, and you better believe we don't run from authority- INS
or LAPD.
> However, from this US citizen's point of view -- I saw the ultimate
> acts of both insult and hypocrisy as I watched illegals from Mexico
> exercising the US constitution's right to protest (free speech) while
> burning the US flag and waving the Mexican flag on US soil. Burning
> the very flag that symbolized the freedom of allowing these illegals
> to voice their objections. Talk about cojones!
Wow, so you DID see me... a _USofA_ citizen acting like a USofA citizen!!
> I say if illegal or even legal immigrants can't respect US sovereignty
> and the citizens of this country, then screw them! They are only guest
> in our country and should be deported.
What about the _USofA_ citizens who were out there?? Screw them too?
Screw you tone (or should I say Antonio?), 'cause you ain't a screwin'
anybody!!!
Raul Franco
> Li...@cris.com (Brad) writes:
>
> >
> >In spite of all the claims that Los Angeles is racist, I have found
> >that many ethnic groups are basically allowed to ignore the law if they
> >are a politically correct group. I never see the LAPD ticketing hispanics
> >for illegal vending (which is a health hazard, tax evasion, and takes
> >business anyway from local unionized supermarkets, not to mention that
> >many street venders are also in possession of stolen property, shopping
> >carts which they steal from local unionized super markets, loses which
> >contribute to lower wages for unionized employees and consumers).
>
You're full of it. the LAPD only acts professional when you've got a
camera on them. Go to EastLos and then drive to the West side and you'll
see a very big difference, not only in police conduct, but citations and
so forth. No, they don't stop a homeless person with a shopping cart
everytime they see one, only when they want to, and when it's convinient
to do so- like if they happen to wonder into beverly hills or some other
"wealthy" neighborhoods. Heck you'll get stopped if you're driving and
your license plate lights "are too dim" - I've gotten this excuse from a
rogue cop. The point is they can stop you for whatever they want, but
they'll only do it when they don't like you, or when it's convenient for
them.
BajaRat
Raul Franco <rfr...@charon.usc.edu> wrote:
>On Wed, 14 Aug 1996, Tony wrote:
>
>> Li...@cris.com (Brad) wrote:
>>
>> Well Brad, welcome to the club. As I said in another thread -- I used
>> to feel sorry for all the illegals until watched in horror those who
>> were illegally from Mexico protesting (on US soil) against the issue of
>> US citizens simply even considering having the possibility to vote for
>> (or even against) California's prop 187. This is not to say that prop
>> 187 was good law. In fact I had planned to vote against it.
>
>How the _FU**_ do you know they were illegal??? I was there and my entire
>family was there, and you better believe we don't run from authority- INS
>or LAPD.
The sad part is that many of the counter-demonstrators at the recent
VCT rallies were U.S. citizens..... including the communists, no
doubt. Pathetic. Nobody ever said that every single U.S. citizen was a
goodie-two-shoes. One has to question anyone, regardless of
citizenship, when he/she proposes to "take back" (in other
words...steal) part of the most powerful nation on earth, que no?
>
>> However, from this US citizen's point of view -- I saw the ultimate
>> acts of both insult and hypocrisy as I watched illegals from Mexico
>> exercising the US constitution's right to protest (free speech) while
>> burning the US flag and waving the Mexican flag on US soil. Burning
>> the very flag that symbolized the freedom of allowing these illegals
>> to voice their objections. Talk about cojones!
>
>Wow, so you DID see me... a _USofA_ citizen acting like a USofA citizen!!
>
>
>> I say if illegal or even legal immigrants can't respect US sovereignty
>> and the citizens of this country, then screw them! They are only guest
>> in our country and should be deported.
>
>What about the _USofA_ citizens who were out there?? Screw them too?
>Screw you tone (or should I say Antonio?), 'cause you ain't a screwin'
>anybody!!!
>
>Raul.... c/s
>
Isn't your whole idea based on starting some sort of civil war and
snatching "Aztlan" for yourselves, Raul? I assume that's what that
"c/s" thing symbolizes. Good luck... you'll need it :-D
-=BajaRat=-
"It's time for a change.
Ferreting out, arresting and deporting illegals, for instance."
http://www.hooked.net/~junior1/no_more/illegals.htm
Mark W. Schaeffer
In article <Dw4o4...@lerami.lerctr.org>, m...@lerami.lerctr.org (Ray
Mullins) wrote:
Far more serious than a city police vs sheriff is getting the cities
involved to agree on consolidation.
A few anecdotes that suggest that to me.
(1) There's a monument in Beverly Hills, at Beverly Drive and Olympic
Boulevard, dating from around 1963 and honoring people in "the business"
who fought to keep B.H. as a seperate city, to paraphrase the inscription.
(If you're looking for it, it has a spiral that looks like movie film).
Are they going to let any of their fought-for autonomy go?
(2) South Pasadena has been fighting the Long Beach Freeway over thirty
years now, and they can because they are an independent city, and a city
along a proposed freeway can block construction there. Would they give up
the source of their clout freely?
(3) There are at least 82 cities (this may not include Malibu or Santa
Clarita) in LA County and many of these have a strong class, race or
industrial orientation. Will they give up their power and identity?
I am in favor of consolidation of our overly layered government structure,
and believe that there's too many people benefiting from the status quo
for change to come any time soon.
--
Mark W. Schaeffer | The man who is turning mothballs
mark...@ucla.edu | into a Ph.D.
http:\\web.chem.ucla.edu\~mws\
Brad
Raul Franco (rfr...@charon.usc.edu) wrote:
I never said the LAPD acts professional. You forget the the main reason
they stop you is to make money for the State of California, money that
the State needs to provide mandated services.
: Raul... c/s
: .
: . .
--
Brad
Raul Franco (rfr...@charon.usc.edu) wrote:
Great I'm from San Francisco, and I've always liked the idea of a
California succession. In fact, after we succeed, we should give Southern
California back to Mexico so that it will not drag the rest of the
Republic down with it (and suck it dry of water).
: Raul.... c/s
Brad
: >
: >In spite of all the claims that Los Angeles is racist, I have found
: >that many ethnic groups are basically allowed to ignore the law if they
: >are a politically correct group. I never see the LAPD ticketing hispanics
: >for illegal vending (which is a health hazard, tax evasion, and takes
: >business anyway from local unionized supermarkets, not to mention that
: >many street venders are also in possession of stolen property, shopping
: >carts which they steal from local unionized super markets, loses which
: >contribute to lower wages for unionized employees and consumers).
: What is the definition of a "politically correct group"?
: LAPD ran a raid of (probably) illegal (hispanic) street vendors over at
: Olvera Street about a month ago.
: Many of them were not bothered which leads me to believe that they have
: permits
In that case the politically correct group was probably the hispanics with
permits pressuring the police to drive off their unpermitted competitors.
I have seen the LAPD turn a blind eye towards gross violations of noise
and nuisance laws when committed by the Iranian Community, but come out
with 10 cars, 1 helicopter, and the fire department to break up a much
less nuisance causing party attended by african-americans.
Once after calling (and after a three hour wait) get an officer to respond
to a call about an Iranian Party with music so loud it could be heard 2
blocks away (and FELT inside my house) the police told me they would NEVER
cite them because their party was of a religious nature, and not in the
best interest of city to cite them (ie: bad for the local politicians
re-election). Then on Venice beach, I've seen the LAPD response
agressively towards a group of deadhead playing drums.
So why are the residents of Venice Beach entitled to be protected from
white drummers, but I'm not entitled to be protected from Iranian bands
playing at 120+ dB.
The LAPD is not racist, they are classist. If you have money or political
power they will protect you. If not, no matter what your race the best
you can hope for is a traffic ticket or to "file a report."
: ---
: "He threw him like a dart"
: -The Living Legend Larry Zybysko on Nash planting Rey Misterio
: jr. into the side of the trailer
Erick Calder
It's for people like you that LA is turning into TJ - the Germans at least
have the guts to make some kind of a stand and keep their country clean.
Erick Calder
Brad <Li...@cris.com> wrote in article <4uu34q$i...@herald.concentric.net>...
> Raul Franco (rfr...@charon.usc.edu) wrote:
>
> : > Li...@cris.com (Brad) writes:
> : >
> : > >
> : > >In spite of all the claims that Los Angeles is racist, I have found
> : > >that many ethnic groups are basically allowed to ignore the law if
they
> : > >are a politically correct group. I never see the LAPD ticketing
hispanics
> : > >for illegal vending (which is a health hazard, tax evasion, and
takes
> : > >business anyway from local unionized supermarkets, not to mention
that
> : > >many street venders are also in possession of stolen property,
shopping
> : > >carts which they steal from local unionized super markets, loses
which
> : > >contribute to lower wages for unionized employees and consumers).
> : >
>
> : camera on them. Go to EastLos and then drive to the West side and
you'll
> : see a very big difference, not only in police conduct, but citations
and
> : so forth. No, they don't stop a homeless person with a shopping cart
> : everytime they see one, only when they want to, and when it's
convinient
> : to do so- like if they happen to wonder into beverly hills or some
other
> : "wealthy" neighborhoods. Heck you'll get stopped if you're driving and
> : your license plate lights "are too dim" - I've gotten this excuse from
a
> : rogue cop. The point is they can stop you for whatever they want, but
> : they'll only do it when they don't like you, or when it's convenient
for
> : them.
>
> I never said the LAPD acts professional. You forget the the main reason
> they stop you is to make money for the State of California, money that
> the State needs to provide mandated services.
> : Raul... c/s
to pay for county hospitals full of illegals
Elson Trinidad
Fringe Ryder wrote:
>
> Robert S. Helfman (hel...@aerospace.aero.org) wrote:
> : About 10 years ago, the L.A. Times reported statistics showing that
> : 65% of the people in Los Angeles County were BORN HERE.
> 3 years ago the L.A. times reported that 90% of the babies born in public
> hospitals were to illegal or first generation immigrants from Central
> America (including Mexico.) Given that rate, sure, 65% of the people in
> L.A. are born there, but they don't speak English or have an education.
Oh you'd be surprised...
Most children of non-English speaking immigrants do speak English. And
yes, they do get an education. It's becoming an interesting social
incident as English-speaking teenagers of non-English speaking
immigrants are known to take advantage of their parents in various
ways...
Also, better an immigrant than those retards who relocate from the East
Coast or Midwest, in search of that "movie deal" (or some other
pipedream), only to live a life of crap dictated by the guidelines
listed in "Los Angeles" and "Buzz" magazines and blame "L.A." (They're
so dumb, they don't know how to pronounce "Los Angeles," so they only
refer to it in its abbreviated form) for everything. (I just wanna slap
'em, you know?)
I say we ship em out. *THOSE* are the kinds of people who are taking
*MY* jobs away.
Elson
Locals RULE!
--
- 30 -
======================================================================
Elson Trinidad * el...@westworld.com * http://www.westworld.com/~elson
Transmitting live from Los Angeles, CA, USA
======================================================================
Ray Mullins
In article <markscha-140...@ts17-14.wla.ts.ucla.edu>,
I advocated consolidation of the City of Los Angeles and County of Los
Angeles agencies, not condensation of all 83 L.A. County city agencies plus
L.A. County. Cities such as Burbank and Torrance can keep their own
PD's. Cities like West Hollywood and Temple City would have to make
a choice; continue contracting out their services to the new unified
PD or set up their own. San Fernando would be interesting; they are
currently served by LAPD and LAFD.
While we're at it, since transit agencies can span counties, what
about making transit police a division of the California State Police
or Highway Patrol? (If you don't know, the State Police is the agency
which protects state facilities and other specific types of law
enforcement.)
Raul Franco
On 15 Aug 1996, Brad wrote:
>
> I never said the LAPD acts professional. You forget the the main reason
> they stop you is to make money for the State of California, money that
> the State needs to provide mandated services.
Actually, they stop _anyone_ under the pretext of "upholding the law," it
just seems that if you black, brown, poor, or a combination, your chances
of getting stop for "breaking" the law, are higher than other groups.
That is, you're more likely to get stop for not wearing a seat belt while
driving in East or South Central LA, than you are in West LA, especially
when they put up those road blocks.
Interesting point you brough up in a previous post about the LAPD being
classist and not racists. I've been trying to figure out what's more
important, race or class, and there just isn't a simple answer (like
anything else). Class does seem seem to play an important role, but I
have seen to many cases or blatant racism from the lapd to dismiss.
Raul Franco
On 15 Aug 1996, Brad wrote:
> Raul Franco (rfr...@charon.usc.edu) wrote:
> : On 14 Aug 1996, Brad wrote:
>
> : So, you moved to LA too, just like *all* the other immigrants... maybe we
> : should build a wall *all* around the state.
>
> Great I'm from San Francisco, and I've always liked the idea of a
> California succession. In fact, after we succeed, we should give Southern
> California back to Mexico so that it will not drag the rest of the
> Republic down with it (and suck it dry of water).
>
Well, the seccession of southern calif is already happening... well, maybe
not seccession, but latin/mexicanation. Pretty soon, you might have to
move back to sf and leave SoCal to those of us who appreciate everything
it has to offer. But of course, we won't stop at southern cal... you
might have to move further north...
Raul Franco
On Wed, 14 Aug 1996, BajaRat wrote:
>
> Isn't your whole idea based on starting some sort of civil war and
> snatching "Aztlan" for yourselves, Raul? I assume that's what that
> "c/s" thing symbolizes. Good luck... you'll need it :-D
Your ignorance is so overwhelming that if I continue to answer it, I might
catch some of it. So I'll leave _you_ with a short answer to the above
question:
The revolution will _not_ be televised.
Try to figure it out rata... try really hard, I know you can do it.
Raul Franco
Just took a drive down Broadway in downtown LA. As much as everyone says
it's change, it really hasn't. Some of the stores are gone, but who gives
a damn about may co? as long as the central market is there (and it is) it
allllright. And it was busy- _alot_ of people (@12pm). It's always
great to see people interacting.
Oh yeah, and the Santa Monica pier is a pretty cool spot too, especially
with the new roller coaster (and yes, I _do_ think of santa monica as part
of Los Angeles.... when I refer to LA, I'm thinking of the entire county).
LA is changing, but it seems that the new people coming in appreciate the
city and area more than the people complaining, and there's _nothing_
wrong with that.....
Lee F. Mellinger
In article <Pine.SUN.3.92.960812...@calvin.usc.edu>,
rfr...@charon.usc.edu says...
>
>On 10 Aug 1996, Brad wrote:
>
>> : Li...@cris.com (Brad) writes:
>>
>> : >The classic example was when some old iranian women pulled into my
>> : >driveway in her top of the line Mercedes with gold trim and walked intoi
>> : >my yard and starting taking the lemons off my tree on my property.
>>
>> : >She told me that she was taking my lemons because they where fresher
>> : >then the ones at the store, when I informed her that she was a common
>> : >thief, she throw my lemon at me (I really should have pressed charges).
>
>Yeah, right!!! And santa claus came into your house and took back the
>gifts he had left the previous night, right? Pathetic what stories
>people make up to advance their agenda... even more pathetic are the
>people who believe them...
>
>Raul... c/s
>
If you don't believe that, how about this: Two Mexicans in pickup truck stop
in front of my house, walk into my yard and hack off about half of the fronds
on the palm tree. Apparently they were for decorative use, but they butchered
my tree, they took them all from one side. They never attempted to ask
permission and took off when approached.
--
Lee
"You have to move to limit freedom" - Bill Clinton, 1994
"Mit Pulver und Blei, die Gedanken sind frei."
|Lee F. Mellinger Caltech/Jet Propulsion Laboratory - NASA
|4800 Oak Grove Drive, Pasadena, CA 91109 818/354-1163
|le...@tsunami.JPL.NASA.GOV
|Disclaimer: These comments are the personal opinions of the author, and
|have not been adopted, authorized, ratified, or approved by JPL.
Syd
Michael Higby (MHi...@Primenet.com) wrote:
: I agree regarding unincorporated areas in LA. I think most of the previously
: unincorporated areas have become cities of their own. Most of the
: unincorporated areas now are populated by jackrabbits, but there may be a few
: communities with significant populations left in LA County. East LA may be
: one. Lets get those incorporated and then dump the county.
Yes, East LA is still unincorporated, along with most of the Baldwin Hills,
Florence, Hacienda Heights, Marina Del Rey, parts of what would generically
be called South Central, and Carson. If I'm not mistaken it's only
somewhat recently that West Hollywood and Malibu were incorporated.
--
Dennis P. Hilgenberg
s...@cyberverse.com
Gsoma
Raul Franco <rfr...@charon.usc.edu> writes:
>You're full of it. the LAPD only acts professional when you've got a
>camera on them. Go to EastLos and then drive to the West side and you'll
>see a very big difference, not only in police conduct, but citations and
I hate to nitpick (but I'm going to do it anyway).
But EastLos is patrolled by the LA Sheriff's Deputies.
Robert McMillin
On 12 Aug 1996 16:05:27 PDT, jo...@crl.com (John Kawakami) said:
[deletia about a woman stealing lemons off someone else's tree]
> Personally, I think that this woman's attitude was a personal one, and not
> representative of the behavior of all Iranians. The fact that she threw
> the lemon at you indicates to me that she's a little loony.
Yeah... I saw something that made me just sick yesterday. A woman in
a very late model Ford Explorer was parked by the office park where I
work. After changing her baby, she just dropped the dirty disposable
diaper in the street! A friend and I, returning from lunch, pointed
out that she dropped something. She got out, inspected the diaper,
and drove off.
Had I any real presence of mind, it occurs to me that I should have
left the diaper, stool side down, on the hood of her car. Lady,
whereever you are, I hope your sewer line backs up. Into your
kitchen.
--
Robert L. McMillin | r...@helen.surfcty.com | Netcom: r...@netcom.com
Ever feel like you're being watched? You will.
Robert McMillin
On 14 Aug 1996 03:13:30 PDT, jo...@crl.com (John Kawakami) said:
> In article <fringeDw...@netcom.com>, fri...@netcom.com (Fringe Ryder)
> wrote:
>> 3 years ago the L.A. times reported that 90% of the babies born in public
>> hospitals were to illegal or first generation immigrants from Central
>> America (including Mexico.) Given that rate, sure, 65% of the people in
>> L.A. are born there, but they don't speak English or have an education.
> I don't get it. They wouldn't speak english because their parents are
> illegals? That doesn't make any sense. Why wouldn't they have an
> education? They can go to school.
... where they are taught in Spanish in "bilingual" classes? Gimme a
break.
Fringe Ryder
Raul Franco (rfr...@charon.usc.edu) wrote:
: Just took a drive down Broadway in downtown LA. As much as everyone says
: Raul... c/s
You've got a point. L.A. (if you count Santa Monica, etc.) is still doing
well in some ways, and has been improving in others. However, it also still
has some real problems, some of which are getting worse.
Good things:
1) L.A. has more cultural events and fun events than anywhere else. For a
while, I wrote a weekly newsletter "Fun In L.A." listing the events,
fairs,etc., and there were always tons. I'm no longer in L.A., but I'm sure
the events are still there.
2) There isn't as much tolerance as in Central California (where I grew up),
but it is a very diverse place.
3) It is physically beautiful
4) Anything you want to do, you can do here.
5) Great weather.
Down sides:
1) L.A. has lots of crime. I think the statistics don't tell the full story
because we've given up on the police. When my car was stripped, the LAPD
told me "Don't touch it for four days - we'll be out next Wednesday."
Needless to say, not only did they not take prints, I never even filled out
a police report. So... that crime never occurred, statistically.
I've seen a LOT of crime, I've been a victim a few times as have my friends.
It just doesn't get reported. Where I live now (Oregon), crime DOES get
reported, and the police respond immediately. So the stats will be more
accurate and disproportionately higher.
2) L.A. has lots of taxes and bureaucracy. This is actually the biggest
reason I moved. It is much harder to run a business in L.A. especially, but
also in California over-all, than elsewhere. They're trying to fix this,
but it's not going so well yet.
3) Because of the problems with crime and businesses, highly educated and
motivated people like me move out. Yes, you still get illegal immigrants
and other hard workers, but you're losing the people who would pay the bulk
of the taxes. Property values are declining, which also affects tax
revenues (and makes people unhappy).
4) L.A. is not REALLY tolerant. Tolerance does not include shouting for
special rights. There's a difference between requiring mathematical
equality and being treated the same. Mathematical equality highlights the
differences that color/gender blindness ignores. In some ways, L.A. is very
racist, sexist, etc., and it extends in every direction. There is no one
victim or any one oppressor in L.A. - everybody has oppressed somebody and
everybody has been oppressed, including (for the last 15 years especially)
white males.
Tolerance exists more in places like San Francisco and Portland, where the
bigotry is mostly confined to hating Republicans. I think they'd hate
anybody they could perceive as being in power - it's a rebellion thing - so
I don't think that's a real intolerance so much as wanting the world to
change and unifying against the perceived power structure.
5) The people who are leaving are more likely to vote conservatively. The
people who are staying or coming are more likely to vote liberal. This
isn't going to be perceived as a problem by the liberals, but liberals do
not create successful economies. Socialism does not work. There are never
enough resources, or enough tax revenue, for their ideals. So there will
ALWAYS be some sort of class warfare in L.A. until even the liberals decide
that self-responsibility is the first priority.
(I know I'll get flamed for #5. Just try to be civil, okay?)
So yes, L.A. is a wonderful place, and much of it is still as wonderful as
ever. But it's different in other ways.
Fringe
BajaRat
Raul Franco <rfr...@charon.usc.edu> wrote:
>Raul... c/s
>
> .
>. .
>
Hmmmm.... guess we shouldn't get onto the subject of your arrogance,
eh Raul? Indeed. Kinda makes one wonder what that "c/s" graffiti of
yours really means. Like I said..... good fuckin' luck, asshole. You
will need it :-D
Michael Higby
m...@lerami.lerctr.org (Ray Mullins) writes:
>An alternative plan is to merge City and County services, a la Miami and
>Seattle. Of course then you have the standoff between Chief Willie and
>Sheriff Peter, which is easily solved by sending them both off on a
>prepaid trip to Las Vegas and hiring someone from outside to run things.
>You will still need a county-level government, which should be expanded to
>between 9 and 15 supervisors. I believe the 5 comes from something in the
>California Constitution that limits supervisors to 5, which worked in the
>early 20th century.
This is not a bad idea, but it still concerns me that the size of government
would be too big. The only way I could go for it is if the County/City was
only responsible for the yearly budget and issues that affect the region as a
whole. Day to day stuff should be handled by local community councils.
-----
BooZoo Comics - The Net's Newest Zine
Visit North Hollywood, our hometown.
Go now to http://www.primenet.com/~mhigby/index.htm
-----
Michael Higby
m...@lerami.lerctr.org (Ray Mullins) writes:
>I advocated consolidation of the City of Los Angeles and County of Los
>Angeles agencies, not condensation of all 83 L.A. County city agencies plus
>L.A. County. Cities such as Burbank and Torrance can keep their own
>PD's. Cities like West Hollywood and Temple City would have to make
>a choice; continue contracting out their services to the new unified
>PD or set up their own. San Fernando would be interesting; they are
>currently served by LAPD and LAFD.
I don't see merging LA County and LA City as being anything much different
than dissolving LA County all together. The only thing it might do is allow a
few bureaucrats to keep their job in the merger. That is not acceptable.
BTW, San Fernando is served by LAFD, but has its own police department. This
is behind the reason why they no longer sell fireworks in that fine city.
LAFD told SF that if they sold fireworks, they would not sell them fire
services. Apparently, SF was not able to field a fire department of their own
and needed the LAFD. The unfortuanate part was that a number of charitable
groups in San Fernando depended on those fireworks sales, as all sales had to
be handled by non-profits. My alma matter, San Fernando High School, funded a
lot of its great athletic program with fireworks sales.
>While we're at it, since transit agencies can span counties, what
>about making transit police a division of the California State Police
>or Highway Patrol? (If you don't know, the State Police is the agency
>which protects state facilities and other specific types of law
>enforcement.)
I believe the State Police and CHP are planning to merge, if they have not
already. I would be opposed to the state handling law enforcement for local
transit agencies due to the local control issue. Plus, we want law
enforcement to be of the community here, not commanded from Sacramento.
Michael Higby
s...@rodelo.cyberverse.com (Syd) writes:
>Michael Higby (MHi...@Primenet.com) wrote:
West Hollywood actually has been incorporated since 1984! Santa Clarita
incorporated I believe in 1990 and Malibu in 1992.
The other areas you mention should either be incorporated or annexed to LA (or
maybe Long Beach in the case of Carson). Then, dump the county.
I thought Marina Del Rey had recently incorporated. I know they've wanted it
for years.
Don McKenzie
[snip]
>
> 5) The people who are leaving are more likely to vote conservatively. The
> people who are staying or coming are more likely to vote liberal. This
> isn't going to be perceived as a problem by the liberals, but liberals do
> not create successful economies. Socialism does not work. There are never
> enough resources, or enough tax revenue, for their ideals. So there will
> ALWAYS be some sort of class warfare in L.A. until even the liberals decide
> that self-responsibility is the first priority.
>
> (I know I'll get flamed for #5. Just try to be civil, okay?)
>
Why would anyone flame a thoughtful post like this?
But even a conservative should admit there are poor managers on both sides,
although conservatives tend to subordinate everything to money. Making a
profit on every transaction is not always good economic policy. It also tends
to favor short-term gains over long term with predictable results in many
instances.
Despite my sig, I'm not a *fiscal* liberal.
--
Don McKenzie, Hollywood, CA
"Liberal = 1. Favorable to progress or reform..."
Random House unabridged dictionary
BajaRat
Raul Franco <rfr...@charon.usc.edu> wrote:
And you have the cojones to brand other people "racist"?
Bwahahahahahaha!
Brad
Don McKenzie (mca...@wavenet.com) wrote:
: In article <fringeDw...@netcom.com>, fri...@netcom.com (Fringe Ryder)
: wrote:
: [snip]
: >
: > 5) The people who are leaving are more likely to vote conservatively. The
: > people who are staying or coming are more likely to vote liberal. This
: > isn't going to be perceived as a problem by the liberals, but liberals do
: > not create successful economies. Socialism does not work. There are never
: > enough resources, or enough tax revenue, for their ideals. So there will
: > ALWAYS be some sort of class warfare in L.A. until even the liberals decide
: > that self-responsibility is the first priority.
: >
: > (I know I'll get flamed for #5. Just try to be civil, okay?)
: >
: Why would anyone flame a thoughtful post like this?
: But even a conservative should admit there are poor managers on both sides,
: although conservatives tend to subordinate everything to money. Making a
: profit on every transaction is not always good economic policy. It also tends
: to favor short-term gains over long term with predictable results in many
: instances.
: Despite my sig, I'm not a *fiscal* liberal.
: --
: Don McKenzie, Hollywood, CA
: "Liberal = 1. Favorable to progress or reform..."
: Random House unabridged dictionary
--
Ray Mullins
In article <MHigby.306...@Primenet.com>,
Michael Higby <MHi...@Primenet.com> wrote:
>
>>I advocated consolidation of the City of Los Angeles and County of Los
>>Angeles agencies, not condensation of all 83 L.A. County city agencies plus
>>L.A. County. Cities such as Burbank and Torrance can keep their own
>>PD's. Cities like West Hollywood and Temple City would have to make
>>a choice; continue contracting out their services to the new unified
>>PD or set up their own. San Fernando would be interesting; they are
>>currently served by LAPD and LAFD.
>
>I don't see merging LA County and LA City as being anything much different
>than dissolving LA County all together. The only thing it might do is allow a
>few bureaucrats to keep their job in the merger. That is not acceptable.
So you would then make places like Gorman and Elizabeth Lake part of the
City of L.A.? That wouldn't go over very well. The idea is to merge
services like FD, PD, public works, and have an independent board manage
them, separate from the Supervisors and the City Council. Yes, more
politicians, but I really can't see a good way to merge the entire City
and County governments.
>
>BTW, San Fernando is served by LAFD, but has its own police department. This
>is behind the reason why they no longer sell fireworks in that fine city.
>LAFD told SF that if they sold fireworks, they would not sell them fire
>services. Apparently, SF was not able to field a fire department of their own
>and needed the LAFD. The unfortuanate part was that a number of charitable
>groups in San Fernando depended on those fireworks sales, as all sales had to
>be handled by non-profits. My alma matter, San Fernando High School, funded a
>lot of its great athletic program with fireworks sales.
I stand corrected, and you're right, I'd forgotten about the controversy
when LAFD came in. I remember that SFPD does call on LAPD a lot for backup.
That's probably where my mistaken impression came from.
>
>>While we're at it, since transit agencies can span counties, what
>>about making transit police a division of the California State Police
>>or Highway Patrol? (If you don't know, the State Police is the agency
>>which protects state facilities and other specific types of law
>>enforcement.)
>
>I believe the State Police and CHP are planning to merge, if they have not
>already. I would be opposed to the state handling law enforcement for local
>transit agencies due to the local control issue. Plus, we want law
>enforcement to be of the community here, not commanded from Sacramento.
>
How about training, payroll, etc. by Sacto but the local transit oversight
agency (MTA, OCTA, etc.) doing day to day? One of the biggest problems
with crime on buses is figuring out which local jurisdiction to call
(which side of the street is the bus on), and the MTA force is too small
to even be deployed effectively.
Syd
Elson Trinidad (el...@westworld.com) wrote:
: Also, better an immigrant than those retards who relocate from the East
: Coast or Midwest [...]
: I say we ship em out. *THOSE* are the kinds of people who are taking
: *MY* jobs away.
Bitter, are we?
Brad
Erick Calder (e...@arix.com) wrote:
: It's for people like you that LA is turning into TJ - the Germans at least
: have the guts to make some kind of a stand and keep their country clean.
When was the last time you where in Germany. They worse problems then we
do because their immigration system is very liberal. The have gangsterism,
cop killing, armed robbery, cross border auto-theft, and high taxes to
support all of that (70%+ income tax).
: > If you're born in America, you are an American, regardless of what
: > language you speak. When are you nativist creeps going to remember
: > why your own forebearers came here? You're worse than the Germans,
: > who still deny citizenship to their gast-arbeiters from Turkey, despite
: > those workers having been in Germany for nearly 30 years. It's repulsive.
Brad
BajaRat (Baj...@netcom.com) wrote:
: Raul Franco <rfr...@charon.usc.edu> wrote:
: >On Wed, 14 Aug 1996, Tony wrote:
: >
: >> Li...@cris.com (Brad) wrote:
: >>
: >> Well Brad, welcome to the club. As I said in another thread -- I used
: >> to feel sorry for all the illegals until watched in horror those who
: >> were illegally from Mexico protesting (on US soil) against the issue of
: >> US citizens simply even considering having the possibility to vote for
: >> (or even against) California's prop 187. This is not to say that prop
: >> 187 was good law. In fact I had planned to vote against it.
: >
: >How the _FU**_ do you know they were illegal??? I was there and my entire
: >family was there, and you better believe we don't run from authority- INS
: >or LAPD.
: The sad part is that many of the counter-demonstrators at the recent
: VCT rallies were U.S. citizens..... including the communists, no
: doubt. Pathetic. Nobody ever said that every single U.S. citizen was a
: goodie-two-shoes. One has to question anyone, regardless of
: citizenship, when he/she proposes to "take back" (in other
: words...steal) part of the most powerful nation on earth, que no?
What I find weird is how anyone can believe that the communists
really care about the rights of anything except the communist party.
Look how illegal immigrants and illegal border crosses where treated
in eastern europe and USSR. Communists don't even believe that people
have a right to travel internally in their nations.
If communism is so compassionate why does cuba kill people who try and
leave. It sounds like communism is actually the solution to illegal
immigration, since if the communists took over mexico, they would build
a wall on the border and kill their own people to stop them to coming
here. So Via la Revolution in Mexico!
On to socialism.. Mexico's current government is basically a one party
socialist, centralized, nationalized, government where the party in
power stays in power by the redistribution of wealth (from the private
sector to the gov't). If socialism is so great then why do mexicans
want to come to the evil capitalist USA?
Erick Calder
Fringe Ryder <fri...@netcom.com> wrote in article
> You've got a point. L.A. (if you count Santa Monica, etc.) is still
doing
> well in some ways, and has been improving in others. However, it also
still
> has some real problems, some of which are getting worse.
>
> Good things:
>
> 1) L.A. has more cultural events and fun events than anywhere else.
California's basic idea of culture is yoghurt. Insofar as art is
concerned, when was the last time that a major exhibition came here?
Paris, London, New York - now you're talking. If exhibitions come to
California at all, they come to SF, *not* to LA. The people who live here
simply lack the appreciation of a Matisse or a Van Gogh for the art
industry to bother.
> 3) It is physically beautiful
beautiful? the "architecture" here is shoddy, and slapped together lacking
any design - fine if you like stucco. As for natural beauty, great if you
find brown hills aesthetically pleasing - when you can see them!
> 4) Anything you want to do, you can do here.
like what? grass, coke, bum, "hang-out" and drive, drive, drive and get
nowhere
> 5) Great weather.
hot, hotter, hottest. dry, drier, drietst. ...and smoggy. ne'er a rain
drop to clean the air. Oh, I forgot! standing ON the shore and you can't
even smell the sea!
> Down sides:
>
> Tolerance exists more in places like San Francisco and Portland, where
the
> bigotry is mostly confined to hating Republicans. I think they'd hate
> anybody they could perceive as being in power - it's a rebellion thing -
so
> I don't think that's a real intolerance so much as wanting the world to
> change and unifying against the perceived power structure.
that's just because they haven't yet gotten overrun with wetbacks. Take up
living in Pacoima for a couple of months.
Erick Calder
Sounds like you should move to a more civilized country. Either that or
get rid of your trees!
Erick Calder
Raul Franco <rfr...@charon.usc.edu> wrote in article
<Pine.SOL.3.92.96081...@calvin.usc.edu>...
> On 15 Aug 1996, Brad wrote:
>
> >
I read the other day on the WSJ that California spends $1 billion a year on
police... does that seem reasonable? what exactly does the police do
anyway other than drive around aimlessly looking for trouble?
Oh, sorry, I forgot the doughnuts!
- Erick.
Nosnag Selrahc
Joking, we were.
... --- ...
http://[find it yourself]
Erick Calder
Elson Trinidad <el...@westworld.com> wrote in article
<3212E4...@westworld.com>...
> Fringe Ryder wrote:
> >
> > Robert S. Helfman (hel...@aerospace.aero.org) wrote:
>
> > : About 10 years ago, the L.A. Times reported statistics showing that
> > : 65% of the people in Los Angeles County were BORN HERE.
>
> > 3 years ago the L.A. times reported that 90% of the babies born in
public
> > hospitals were to illegal or first generation immigrants from Central
> > America (including Mexico.) Given that rate, sure, 65% of the people
in
> > L.A. are born there, but they don't speak English or have an education.
>
>
> Most children of non-English speaking immigrants do speak English.
Your're right to some extent, they do spek some kind of
whatever-pidgeon-English.
> And yes, they do get an education.
Thanks to US taxes. And mostly only the part that's complimentary.
> Also, better an immigrant than those retards who relocate from the East
> Coast or Midwest, in search of that "movie deal" (or some other
> pipedream), only to live a life of crap dictated by the guidelines
> listed in "Los Angeles" and "Buzz" magazines and blame "L.A." (They're
> so dumb, they don't know how to pronounce "Los Angeles," so they only
> refer to it in its abbreviated form) for everything. (I just wanna slap
> 'em, you know?)
>
> I say we ship em out. *THOSE* are the kinds of people who are taking
> *MY* jobs away.
If these people are taking your job away, you must be chasing that ever
elusive "movie deal" you refer to. In that case, perhaps you should take
you own advice and ship yourself out.
Erick Calder
> So, you moved to LA too, just like *all* the other immigrants... maybe we
> should build a wall *all* around the state.
last time I checked, California was still part of the US so I don't see how
a wall to separate it from Nevada would quite be appropriate. The wall you
refer to need be placed on the border with Mexico, to keep the beaners from
slithering in.