> > It was the point of the fourteenth amendment to make all > > the states respect the rights, including the second, of all > > the people.
> All the states have always had state militias and Congress has > never disarmed them. Most states have provided a personal > rkba.
> Success.
The disarming of freed blacks and the violations of blacks property rights, among others, was just some of the reasons for the fourteenth amendment. Congress, mostly Republicans, wanted it stopped.
> > If personal gun rights were understood to be > > only a state right there would never have been a fourteenth > > amendment. That was whole point of the fourteenth amendment
> Mark you are a shameless fraud. Cite any of the framers of the > Fourteenth Amendment saying that the Second Amendment is the > real reason we needed the Fourteenth Amendment.
Not just the second amendment but all rights. JUST ONE EXAMPLE: During the drafting of Fourteenth Amendment Senator Jacob Howard said in regards to the Dred Scott decision and what the Fourteenth Amendment should be "is it not essential to the unity of the people that the citizens of each state shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of citizens of the United States? Is it not essential that all persons, whether citizens or strangers, within this land, shall have equal protection in every State in this Union in the rights of life and liberty and property"?
> Anybody here ever read the Fourteenth Amendment? I notice that > while you make up lies about it you don't actually post the > text of that amendment.
> [begin excerpt]
> FOURTEENTH AMENDMENT
> Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United > States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are > citizens of the United States and the State wherein they > reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall > abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the > United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of > life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor > deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal > protection of the laws.
> [end excerpt]
> Why don't you get a job with Wayne's old crew in the > televangelical racket, Mark? You're a shameless liar and > apparently could take anybody's money on false pretenses.
> Just be a good little crook and leave the Constitution out of > it, okay slick?
I guess you missed the part "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws".
I think that pretty much includes the second amendment in individual rights terms.
The only "shameless fraud" and "shameless liar" is you trying to discard what is clearly stated time and time again by the authors of the Constitution and all of the Bill of Rights.
Mark
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
Thomas Jefferson Proposed Virginia Constitution(1776), Jefferson Papers 344,(J.Boyd,ed.1950)
>> > It was the point of the fourteenth amendment to make all >> > the states respect the rights, including the second, of >> > all the people.
>> All the states have always had state militias and Congress >> has never disarmed them. Most states have provided a >> personal rkba.
>> Success.
> The disarming of freed blacks and the violations of blacks > property rights, among others, was just some of the reasons > for the fourteenth amendment. Congress, mostly Republicans, > wanted it stopped.
Gee, Mark, I just did a Google search:
+disarm +"freed blacks"
And all the hits were just gunlobby propaganda.
Then I did another search:
+"freed blacks" +"property rights"
And got the typical jumble of webpages, but none of them having anything to do with gun rights.
Then I combined the searches:
+"freed blacks" +"property rights" +disarm
And from 8 billion webpages indexed by Google, I got exactly one hit:
Conflict Policy Research Project (CPRP) The Netherlands and Liberia Dutch Policies and Interventions with respect to the Liberian Civil War
Klaas van Walraven
Needless to say, not about the United States.
Okay dumbass, cite a source other than your own gunlobby claptrap on the disarming of freed blacks. If it's really a historical event there must be some independent record in some legitimate history book, by a real historian...
Not Dr. Crammer...
Laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh.
_____________________
“The Second Amendment has no place in modern society.”
- Alan Dershowitz. Harvard Crimson, April 9, 2003.
Leif speaking: Five months after the 14th Amendment was proclaimed, President Johnson told Congress that denying states "the right to protect themselves by the means of their own militia" was to violate the Second Amendment. Agreeing with Thomas Jefferson, he viewed the Second Amendment as a militia provision:
"The act of March 2, 1867, making appropriations for the support of the army for the year ending June 30, 1868, and for other purposes, contains provisions which interfere with the President's constitutional functions as commander-in-chief of the army, and deny to States of the Union the right to protect themselves by means of their own militia. These provisions should be at once annulled; for while the first might, in times of great emergency, seriously embarrass the Executive in efforts to employ and direct the common strength of the nation for its protection and preservation, the other is contrary to the express declaration of the Constitution, that 'a well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.'
"It is believed that the repeal of all such laws would be accepted by the American people as at least a partial return to the fundamental principles of the government, and an indication that hereafter the Constitution is to be made the nation's safe and unerring guide. They can be productive of no permanent benefit to the country, and should not be permitted to stand as so many monuments of the deficient wisdom which has characterized our recent legislation."
(President Andrew Johnson, State of the Union Address, Appendix to the Congressional Globe, 40th Congress, 3rd Session, December 9, 1868)
to remember RFK saying these words: What the Alliance for Progress has come down to then is that [the native rulers] can close down newspapers, abolish Congress, fail religious opposition, and deport your political enemies, and you'll get lots of help, but if you fool around with a U.S. oil company, we'll cut you off without a penny. Is that right?
It was no day at the beach answering that kind of question with Bobby staring a hole through you.
By 1963, after the Bay of Pigs, the Missile Crisis and the cries for escalation in Vietnam, Kennedy was moving toward the Sorenson- Schlesinger side of the White House. By 1968, RFK was further to the left than that, being hooked up with labor leaders like Walter Reuther and Cesar Chavez. As Otis Chandler, a firm member of the establishment, said after Bobby's death: "I guess there's no one to stand up for the weak and the poor now." That memory is now being replaced by those of RFK cavorting with Monroe on the beach; of JFK drinking martinis with Monroe's buddy Giancana; and the Kennedys tryi
> > The disarming of freed blacks and the violations of blacks > > property rights, among others, was just some of the reasons > > for the fourteenth amendment. Congress, mostly Republicans, > > wanted it stopped.
> Gee, Mark, I just did a Google search:
> +disarm +"freed blacks"
> And all the hits were just gunlobby propaganda.
> Then I did another search:
> +"freed blacks" +"property rights"
> And got the typical jumble of webpages, but none of them having > anything to do with gun rights.
> Then I combined the searches:
> +"freed blacks" +"property rights" +disarm
> And from 8 billion webpages indexed by Google, I got exactly > one hit:
> Conflict Policy Research Project (CPRP) > The Netherlands and Liberia > Dutch Policies and Interventions with respect to the Liberian > Civil War
> Klaas van Walraven
> Needless to say, not about the United States.
> Okay dumbass, cite a source other than your own gunlobby > claptrap on the disarming of freed blacks. If it's really a > historical event there must be some independent record in some > legitimate history book, by a real historian...
> Not Dr. Crammer...
> Laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh.
There was disarming of blacks. It was one of many so called "Black Codes" used to continue slavery in the south. In 1866 various southern white militias, often "composed of Confederate veterans still wearing their gray uniforms, frequently terrorized the black population, ransacking their homes to seize shotguns and other property and abusing those refused to sign plantation labor contracts". No "gunlobby claptrap" here. These are remarks of Sen. Henry Wilson 39th Congress 1866. Quoting from a Dec. 13 1865 letter from Colonel Samuel Thomas to Major General O.O. Howard.
Also, As far as an individual right to bear arms under the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, Joel Tiffany's treatise, which became a basic handbook for many Republicans, said this about the Fourteenth amendment and the Constitution. "The colored citizen, under our Federal Constitution, has now as full and perfect a right to keep and bear arms as any other; and no State law, or State regulation has authority to deprive him of that right".
So much for your state rights only theory.
BTW: You still haven't answered my question. Point out one, just one, of the original debates on the second amendment where it was argued whether the individual RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS even existed. State, federal or otherwise. There is no such argument.
>> > The disarming of freed blacks and the violations of >> > blacks property rights, among others, was just some of >> > the reasons for the fourteenth amendment. Congress, >> > mostly Republicans, wanted it stopped.
>> Gee, Mark, I just did a Google search:
>> +disarm +"freed blacks"
>> And all the hits were just gunlobby propaganda.
>> Then I did another search:
>> +"freed blacks" +"property rights"
>> And got the typical jumble of webpages, but none of them >> having anything to do with gun rights.
>> Then I combined the searches:
>> +"freed blacks" +"property rights" +disarm
>> And from 8 billion webpages indexed by Google, I got >> exactly one hit:
>> Conflict Policy Research Project (CPRP) >> The Netherlands and Liberia >> Dutch Policies and Interventions with respect to the >> Liberian Civil War
>> Klaas van Walraven
>> Needless to say, not about the United States.
>> Okay dumbass, cite a source other than your own gunlobby >> claptrap on the disarming of freed blacks. If it's really >> a historical event there must be some independent record >> in some legitimate history book, by a real historian...
>> Not Dr. Crammer...
> There was disarming of blacks. It was one of many so called > "Black Codes" used to continue slavery in the south. In > 1866 various southern white militias, often "composed of > Confederate veterans still wearing their gray uniforms, > frequently terrorized the black population, ransacking > their homes to seize shotguns and other property and > abusing those refused to sign plantation labor contracts". > No "gunlobby claptrap" here. These are remarks of Sen. > Henry Wilson 39th Congress 1866. Quoting from a Dec. 13 > 1865 letter from Colonel Samuel Thomas to Major General > O.O. Howard.
One quote? That's what your theory's based on?
There's no question that blacks had been violently oppressed by whites for centuries, or that whites assaulted the property rights of recently freed blacks.
But if I recall, Crammer says whites outlawed cheap handguns so blacks wouldn't be able to buy new guns. I haven't seen any evidence of that.
It's time you proved your point instead of just posting another time hoping I'm bored with your bullshit.
> Also, As far as an individual right to bear arms under the > Constitution and the Bill of Rights, Joel Tiffany's > treatise, which became a basic handbook for many > Republicans, said this about the Fourteenth amendment and > the Constitution. "The colored citizen, under our Federal > Constitution, has now as full and perfect a right to keep > and bear arms as any other; and no State law, or State > regulation has authority to deprive him of that right".
Yeah, as citizens of a US state they'd have the same rights as whites to own guns, and as US citizens they'd have the same right to serve in the state militia, from which they were barred by the Militia Act of 1792.
> So much for your state rights only theory.
You forgot about the racism written into the Militia Act of 1792 which was unconstitutional as soon as the 14th Amendment was ratified, which insured blacks would be US citizens and so eligible for militia duty.
Pretty obvious those those who don't have to lie about it, isn't it Markie?
> BTW: You still haven't answered my question.
Yes, I have. There was much discussion of including a militia amendment to the Constitution. See Eliot's Debates, dumbass.
No discussion of any personal right to have guns, which makes sense because that was a state matter under their internal police power. It wouldn't be discussed at ratifying conventions for the Constitution, or in debates on amendments to the Constitution.
But you'd need to understand that before you could effectively lie about it, eh Markie?
___________________
In order to have a just and precise idea of the meaning of the clause of the constitution under consideration, it will be useful to look at the state of things in the history of our ancestors, and thus comprehend the reason of its introduction into our constitution.
By the act of 22 & 23 Car. II., ch. 25, sec. 3, it is provided that no person who has not lands of the yearly value of 100 pounds, other than the son and heir apparent of an esquire, or other person of higher degree, etc., shall be allowed to keep a gun, etc. By this act, persons of a certain condition in life were allowed to keep arms, while a large proportion of the people were entirely disarmed. But King James II, by his own arbitrary power, and contrary to law, disarmed the Protestant population, and quartered his Catholic soldiers among the people. This, together with other abuses, produced the revolution by which he was compelled to abdicate the throne of England. William and Mary succeeded him, and, in the first year of their reign, Parliament passed an act recapitulating the abuses which existed during the former reign, and declared the existence of certain rights which they insisted upon as their undoubted privileges. Among these abuses they say, in sec. 5, that he had kept a "standing army within the kingdom in time of peace, without the consent of Parliament, and quartered soldiers contrary to law." Sec. 6. "By causing several good subjects, being Protestants, to be disarmed, at the same time when Papists were both armed and employed contrary to law."
In the declaration of rights that follows, sec. 7 declares that "the subjects which are Protestant may have arms for their defence, suitable to their condition and as allowed by law." This declaration, although it asserts the right of the Protestants to have arms, does not extend the privilege beyond the terms provided in the act of Charles II, before referred to. "They may have arms," says the Parliament, "suitable to their condition and as allowed by law." The law, we have seen, only allowed persons of a certain rank to have arms, and consequently this declaration of right had reference to such only. It was in reference to these facts, and to this state of the English law, that the 2d section of the amendments to the constitution of the United States was incorporated into that instrument. It declares that, "a well-regu- lated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
In the same view the section under consideration of our own bill of rights was adopted.
> >> Okay dumbass, cite a source other than your own gunlobby > >> claptrap on the disarming of freed blacks. If it's really > >> a historical event there must be some independent record > >> in some legitimate history book, by a real historian...
> >> Not Dr. Crammer...
> > There was disarming of blacks. It was one of many so called > > "Black Codes" used to continue slavery in the south. In > > 1866 various southern white militias, often "composed of > > Confederate veterans still wearing their gray uniforms, > > frequently terrorized the black population, ransacking > > their homes to seize shotguns and other property and > > abusing those refused to sign plantation labor contracts". > > No "gunlobby claptrap" here. These are remarks of Sen. > > Henry Wilson 39th Congress 1866. Quoting from a Dec. 13 > > 1865 letter from Colonel Samuel Thomas to Major General > > O.O. Howard.
> One quote? That's what your theory's based on?
Well, that's all you asked for. You got it. But if want more, keep reading.
> There's no question that blacks had been violently oppressed by > whites for centuries, or that whites assaulted the property > rights of recently freed blacks.
If you knew this, then why did you demand I give an example? But like I said, if you want more, keep reading.
> But if I recall, Crammer says whites outlawed cheap handguns so > blacks wouldn't be able to buy new guns. I haven't seen any > evidence of that.
After the Civil War, mass-production techniques led to a reduction in the prices of many goods, including firearms. New among purchasers of handguns and other guns were former slaves who, newly-freed, were entitled to exercise the right to arms, long considered one of the features distinguishing citizenship from servitude. As the Supreme Court had ruled in Dred Scott v. Sanford (19 How. 393, 1857):
"It [citizenship] would give to persons of the negro race, who were recognized as citizens in any one State of the Union, the right to enter every other State whenever they pleased . . . and it would give them the full liberty of speech in public and in private upon all subjects upon which its own citizens might speak; to hold public meetings upon political affairs, and to keep and carry arms wherever they went. . . ."
Efforts to prevent blacks from arming had a well-established history in the United States. The French Black Code (1751) required Louisiana colonists to stop and, "if necessary," beat "any black carrying any potential weapon. . . ." After Nat Turner`s rebellion, the Virginia legislature made it illegal for free blacks "to keep or carry any firelock of any kind, any military weapon, or any powder or lead." Maryland considered dogs to be weapons, and permitted any white to shoot any unlicensed dog owned by a free black. Mississippi prohibited blacks from owning dogs. In 1834, Tennessee revised Article XI, Section 26 of its Constitution to read "That the free white men of this State have a right to keep and bear arms for their common defense," inserting the words "free white men" to replace "freemen," whose rights were protected when the Constitution was ratified in 1796.12
After the Civil War, southern states enacted the Black Codes, which "fixed the black population in serfdom, denying all political rights, excluding them from virtually any chance at economic or social advancement Ð and, of course, forbidding them to own arms."13 Following ratification of the 14th Amendment (1868) and enactment of the Civil Rights Act (1875), several states passed laws race-neutral on their face, but not in their effect. Attorney Robert Dowlut observed, "It does not matter that a law on its face applies to all. A law will be deemed unconstitutional if the `the reality is that the law`s impact falls on the minority.`" 14 Among these laws, the forerunners of modern SNS legislation, was Tennessee`s "Army and Navy" law (1879), which prohibited the sale of any "belt or pocket pistols, or revolvers, or any other kind of pistols, except army or navy pistol" models, among the most expensive, largest handguns of the day. The law thus prohibited small derringers and rimfire revolvers that most Blacks could afford. From 1915-1921, a U.S. Senator from Tennessee, John K. Shields, sponsored bills in Congress to impose an "Army/Navy" law nationwide.15
A law to prohibit the mailing of pistols (with a view to prevent mail orders of SNSs by teenagers) was imposed by Congress in 1927. In 1968, Congress imposed the Gun Control Act, which, among other things, included provisions intended to stop the importation of SNSs16 [18 U.S.C. 925(d)(3)] and to prohibit interstate mail order purchases of firearms [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3)]. The Act was ostensibly imposed in response to the assassinations of President John F. Kennedy, Senator Robert F. Kennedy and the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King. But even supporters of "gun control" have recognized that there was another purpose unspoken by the nation`s lawmakers. Anti-gun journalist Robert Sherrill wrote that "The Gun Control Act of 1968 was passed not to control guns but to control blacks. . . . Inasmuch as the legislation finally passed in 1968 had nothing to do with the guns used in the assassinations of King and Robert Kennedy, it seems reasonable to assume that the law was directed at that other threat of the 1960s, more omnipresent than the political assassinÐnamely, the black rioter. . . . With the horrendous rioting of 1967 and 1968, Congress again was panicked toward passing some law that would shut off weapons access to blacks."17 B. Bruce-Briggs noted, "It is difficult to escape the conclusion that the `Saturday night special` is emphasized because it is cheap and is being sold to a particular class of people. The name is sufficient evidenceÐthe reference is to `n[.....]-town Saturday Night.`"18
During the 1990s, low-income Blacks saw their right to arms threatened by the Chicago public housing authorities and the Clinton Administration, which suggested prohibiting residents of housing projects from possessing firearms. Portland, Maine`s, housing authority imposed such a provision during the 1970s, but it was overturned by the state Supreme Court in a case brought forward with help from the NRA. On appeal, the U.S. Supreme Court declined to review the Maine Court`s decision, thus letting it stand.19
The race-oriented history of many federal and state "gun control" laws is one that has escaped the attention of many in the academic and civil rights communities. Legal scholars Robert J. Cottrol and Raymond T. Diamond observe, "The history of blacks, firearms regulations, and the right to bear arms should cause us to ask new questions regarding the Second Amendment . . . Much of the contemporary crime that concerns Americans is in poor black neighborhoods and a case can be made that greater firearms restrictions might alleviate this tragedy. But another, perhaps stronger case can be made that a society with a dismal record of protecting a people has a dubious claim on the right to disarm them. Perhaps a re-examination of this history can lead us to a modern realization of what the framers of the Second Amendment understood: that it is unwise to place the means of protection totally in the hands of the state, and that self-defense is also a civil right."20
> It's time you proved your point instead of just posting another > time hoping I'm bored with your bullshit.
I would say it is you who needs to prove your point. I ask again, point out one, just one, of the original debates on the second amendment where it was argued whether the individual RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS even existed. State, federal or otherwise. There is no such argument.
> > Also, As far as an individual right to bear arms under the > > Constitution and the Bill of Rights, Joel Tiffany's > > treatise, which became a basic handbook for many > > Republicans, said this about the Fourteenth amendment and > > the Constitution. "The colored citizen, under our Federal > > Constitution, has now as full and perfect a right to keep > > and bear arms as any other; and no State law, or State > > regulation has authority to deprive him of that right".
> Yeah, as citizens of a US state they'd have the same rights as > whites to own guns, and as US citizens they'd have the same > right to serve in the state militia, from which they were > barred by the Militia Act of 1792.
No, this clearly states "The colored citizen, under our Federal Constitution, has now as full and perfect a right to keep and bear arms as any other". Maybe you missed that part as you conveniently miss so many others.
> > So much for your state rights only theory.
> You forgot about the racism written into the Militia Act of > 1792 which was unconstitutional as soon as the 14th Amendment > was ratified, which insured blacks would be US citizens and so > eligible for militia duty. > Pretty obvious those those who don't have to lie about it, > isn't it Markie?
No, I was the one who pointed it out in the first place after you demanded I prove this. Please try to keep track of this debate.
> > BTW: You still haven't answered my question.
> Yes, I have. There was much discussion of including a militia > amendment to the Constitution. See Eliot's Debates, dumbass.
Really, were. Exactly where did you show that there was no such individual RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS .
> No discussion of any personal right to have guns, which makes > sense because that was a state matter under their internal > police power. It wouldn't be discussed at ratifying > conventions for the Constitution, or in debates on amendments > to the Constitution.
> But you'd need to understand that before you could effectively > lie about it,
> B. Bruce-Briggs > noted, "It is difficult to escape the conclusion that the > `Saturday night special` is emphasized because it is cheap > and is being sold to a particular class of people. The name > is sufficient evidenceÐthe reference is to `n[.....]-town > Saturday Night.`"18
Your entire argument hinges on this word you're afraid to spell out. You'll have to dispense with ellipsis or concede the argument right now, little shill.
When you gather the courage to spell out that racist phrase, tell us who Bruce-Briggs is. And who published "Public Interest" in the Fall of 1976, which is where this quote comes from?
This guy's not a linguist, is he Markie? But he talks about "evidence", he makes a "conclusion". Based on what linguistic principle? Maybe Bruce-Briggs refers to the term "saturday night social", fondly recalling cross burnings and "lynching bees".
You have some explaining to do, little gunloon. You'd better start with the actual word under consideration. Spell it out, or just admit your argument is bogus.
________________
[Saturday 3.]
Saturday Night
1. Used attrib. of activities taking place on or as on a Saturday night, esp. some form of revelry. [1847 H. Melville Omoo xii. 49 The evening of the last day of the week was always celebrated by what is styled on board of English vessels, ‘The Saturday-night bottles’. Two of these were sent down into the forecastle, just after dark.] 1896 ‘M. Rutherford’ Clara Hopgood xii. 121 Saturday- night drunkenness and looseness in the relations between the young men and young women. [1938 G. Greene Brighton Rock iii. 124 ‘Saturday,’ he thought, ‘today's Saturday,’ remembering the room at home, the frightening weekly exercise of his parents which he watched from his single bed. Ibid. vii. 320 The Boy was shaken again with his nocturnal Saturday disgust. He couldn't blame his father now.+ You couldn't even blame the girl.] 1942 Berrey & Van den Bark Amer. Thes. Slang §509/17 Saturday- night habit, week-end habit, indulgence in small amounts of narcotics at irregular intervals. 1951 Evening Sun (Baltimore) 27 Mar. 4/1 The graduate ‘hype’ was a ‘student’ or ‘hoosier fiend’ who ‘dabbled’ with drugs occasionally. He had what is known as ‘chippy habit’, a ‘Saturday night habit’, or an ‘ice cream habit’. 1963 R. I. McDavid Mencken's Amer. Lang. xi. 742 Most cats consider it necessary to probe the mystic depths with the assistance of wine, a joint of pot+, peyote buttons and large infusions of invigorating jazz music-+in any event indulged in with friends as part of the Saturday night kicks. 1964 New Statesman 17 Apr. 606/2 Is the Saturday-night blind+any less characteristic of the modern urbanised proletariat than of the traditional rural peasantry? 1976 N.Y. Times Mag. 10 Oct. 111/2 [In the southern States of the U.S.] there were all those cross burnings, lynching bees and Sairday Nite Socials.
2. spec. attrib. uses: Saturday night palsy or paralysis, temporary local paralysis of the arm, esp. wrist drop, after it has rested on a hard edge for a long time, as during sleep following a bout of drinking (colloq.); Saturday night pistol (U.S. colloq.) = Saturday night special; Saturday night soldier, a member of a volunteer army, as opp. a regular soldier; Saturday night special (U.S. colloq.), a cheap, low-calibre pistol or revolver such as might be used by a petty criminal. 1927 I. S. Wechsler Textbk. Clin. Neurol. iii. 249 The frequent occurrence of wrist drop in alcoholics who fall asleep and lean heavily on the arm has given rise to the common designation of ‘Saturday night palsy’. 1942 Sun (Baltimore) 23 Apr. 22/2 A similar ailment is called ‘shelter paralysis’-formerly known as ‘Saturday night paralysis’ because its victims were generally payday tipplers. 1951 E. Paul Springtime in Paris xii. 216 Berthe was suffering from what is known in the United States as Saturday-night paralysis,+when drunken men go to sleep in gutters, with one arm across a sharp kerbstone. 1974 Passmore & Robson Compan. Med. Stud. III. xxxiv. 35/1 Wrist drop thus produced is known as a ‘Saturday night palsy’.
1929 M. A. Gill Underworld Slang, Saturday night pistol, 25 automatic.
1917 A. G. Empey Over Top 311 ‘Terrier’, Tommy's nickname for a Territorial or ‘Saturday-night soldier’. 1974 Maclean's Mag. Oct. 30/1 My husband was a Saturday Night soldier, the militia, and he couldn't wait for the war and when it started, zoom, he was called up and then he was happy.
1968 N.Y. Times 17 Aug. 1/1 Title IV of that law bans the importation of the cheap, small-caliber ‘Saturday night specials’ that are a favorite of holdup men. 1976 Pioneer (Big Timber, Montana) 30 June 4/2 A ban on ‘Saturday Night Special’ handguns. 1977 C. McFadden Serial xlvi. 98/1 I'm not packing a Saturday-night special, really.
Hence Saturday nighter, a person who attends an entertainment on a Saturday night; Saturday-night v. intr., to spend a Saturday night in enjoyment or revelling. 1962 D. Lessing Golden Notebk. iv. 462 The fellows were out Saturday- nighting true-hearted, the wild-hearted Saturday- night gang of true friends. 1966 Listener 24 Mar. 422/2 The Korean script announced that Dr No was showing inside. So he was+and half the population of Korea was inside, too+all of us lapping up James Bond like Surbiton Saturday nighters.
> >> But if I recall, Crammer says whites outlawed cheap > >> handguns so blacks wouldn't be able to buy new guns. I > >> haven't seen any evidence of that.
> > After the Civil War, mass-production techniques led to a
There sources are all there. You are more than welcome to check them out.
> > B. Bruce-Briggs > > noted, "It is difficult to escape the conclusion that the > > `Saturday night special` is emphasized because it is cheap > > and is being sold to a particular class of people. The name > > is sufficient evidenceÐthe reference is to `n[.....]-town > > Saturday Night.`"18
> Your entire argument hinges on this word you're afraid to > spell out. You'll have to dispense with ellipsis or concede > the argument right now, little shill.
The author is trying to be politically correct and you use this as evidence that the whole argument is wrong? You are reaching.
> When you gather the courage to spell out that racist phrase, > tell us who Bruce-Briggs is. And who published "Public > Interest" in the Fall of 1976, which is where this quote > comes from?
> This guy's not a linguist, is he Markie? But he talks about > "evidence", he makes a "conclusion". Based on what > linguistic principle? Maybe Bruce-Briggs refers to the term > "saturday night social", fondly recalling cross burnings and > "lynching bees".
You evidence is?
> You have some explaining to do, little gunloon. You'd better > start with the actual word under consideration. Spell it > out, or just admit your argument is bogus.
No, It is you that has "some explaining to do". Like stop avoiding my question and answer it. I ask again, point out one, just one, of the original debates on the second amendment where it was argued whether the individual RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS even existed. State, federal or otherwise. There is no such argument.
> 1. Used attrib. of activities taking place on or as on a > Saturday night, esp. some form of revelry. [1847 H. Melville > Omoo xii. 49 The evening of the last day of the week was > always celebrated by what is styled on board of English > vessels, 'The Saturday-night bottles'. Two of these were > sent down into the forecastle, just after dark.] 1896 'M. > Rutherford' Clara Hopgood xii. 121 Saturday- night > drunkenness and looseness in the relations between the young > men and young women. [1938 G. Greene Brighton Rock iii. 124 > 'Saturday,' he thought, 'today's Saturday,' remembering the > room at home, the frightening weekly exercise of his parents > which he watched from his single bed. Ibid. vii. 320 The > Boy was shaken again with his nocturnal Saturday disgust. He > couldn't blame his father now.+ You couldn't even blame the > girl.] 1942 Berrey & Van den Bark Amer. Thes. Slang > §509/17 Saturday- night habit, week-end habit, indulgence in > small amounts of narcotics at irregular intervals. 1951 > Evening Sun (Baltimore) 27 Mar. 4/1 The graduate 'hype' was > a 'student' or 'hoosier fiend' who 'dabbled' with drugs > occasionally. He had what is known as 'chippy habit', a > 'Saturday night habit', or an 'ice cream habit'. 1963 R. I. > McDavid Mencken's Amer. Lang. xi. 742 Most cats consider it > necessary to probe the mystic depths with the assistance of > wine, a joint of pot+, peyote buttons and large infusions of > invigorating jazz music-+in any event indulged in with > friends as part of the Saturday night kicks. 1964 New > Statesman 17 Apr. 606/2 Is the Saturday-night blind+any less > characteristic of the modern urbanised proletariat than of > the traditional rural peasantry? 1976 N.Y. Times Mag. 10 > Oct. 111/2 [In the southern States of the U.S.] there were > all those cross burnings, lynching bees and Sairday Nite > Socials.
> 2. spec. attrib. uses: Saturday night palsy or paralysis, > temporary local paralysis of the arm, esp. wrist drop, after > it has rested on a hard edge for a long time, as during > sleep following a bout of drinking (colloq.); Saturday night > pistol (U.S. colloq.) = Saturday night special; Saturday > night soldier, a member of a volunteer army, as opp. a > regular soldier; Saturday night special (U.S. colloq.), a > cheap, low-calibre pistol or revolver such as might be used > by a petty criminal. 1927 I. S. Wechsler Textbk. Clin. > Neurol. iii. 249 The frequent occurrence of wrist drop in > alcoholics who fall asleep and lean heavily on the arm has > given rise to the common designation of 'Saturday night > palsy'. 1942 Sun (Baltimore) 23 Apr. 22/2 A similar ailment > is called 'shelter paralysis'-formerly known as 'Saturday > night paralysis' because its victims were generally payday > tipplers. 1951 E. Paul Springtime in Paris xii. 216 Berthe > was suffering from what is known in the United States as > Saturday-night paralysis,+when drunken men go to sleep in > gutters, with one arm across a sharp kerbstone. 1974 > Passmore & Robson Compan. Med. Stud. III. xxxiv. 35/1 Wrist > drop thus produced is known as a 'Saturday night palsy'.
> 1929 M. A. Gill Underworld Slang, Saturday night pistol, 25 > automatic.
> 1917 A. G. Empey Over Top 311 'Terrier', Tommy's nickname > for a Territorial or 'Saturday-night soldier'. 1974 > Maclean's Mag. Oct. 30/1 My husband was a Saturday Night > soldier, the militia, and he couldn't wait for the war and > when it started, zoom, he was called up and then he was > happy.
> 1968 N.Y. Times 17 Aug. 1/1 Title IV of that law bans the > importation of the cheap, small-caliber 'Saturday night > specials' that are a favorite of holdup men. 1976 Pioneer > (Big Timber, Montana) 30 June 4/2 A ban on 'Saturday Night > Special' handguns. 1977 C. McFadden Serial xlvi. 98/1 I'm > not packing a Saturday-night special, really.
> Hence Saturday nighter, a person who attends an > entertainment on a Saturday night; Saturday-night v. intr., > to spend a Saturday night in enjoyment or revelling. 1962 D. > Lessing Golden Notebk. iv. 462 The fellows were out > Saturday- nighting true-hearted, the wild-hearted Saturday- > night gang of true friends. 1966 Listener 24 Mar. 422/2 The > Korean script announced that Dr No was showing inside. So he > was+and half the population of Korea was inside, too+all of > us lapping up James Bond like Surbiton Saturday nighters.
> - OED, 2nd Edition
I have no idea why you posted this useless bit of tripe. Please try to keep on track with the issue. Now answer my question. Point out one, just one, of the original debates on the second amendment where it was argued whether the individual RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS even existed. State, federal or otherwise. There is no such argument.
>> >> But if I recall, Crammer says whites outlawed cheap >> >> handguns so blacks wouldn't be able to buy new guns. I >> >> haven't seen any evidence of that.
>> > After the Civil War, mass-production techniques led to a
> There sources are all there. You are more than welcome to > check them out.
>> > B. Bruce-Briggs >> > noted, "It is difficult to escape the conclusion that >> > the `Saturday night special` is emphasized because it is >> > cheap and is being sold to a particular class of people. >> > The name is sufficient evidenceÐthe reference is to >> > `n[.....]-town Saturday Night.`"18
>> Your entire argument hinges on this word you're afraid to >> spell out. You'll have to dispense with ellipsis or >> concede the argument right now, little shill.
> The author is trying to be politically correct and you use > this as evidence that the whole argument is wrong? You are > reaching.
Where's your linguistic evidence that Bruce-Briggs' "niggertown saturday night" has a direct relationship to "saturday night special", Mark? Nobody has ever brought a shred of evidence of that, and yet that's your claim.
I think it proves you're a bunch of ignorant gunloons who are now exposed as racists, because you made a connection between "niggertown" and "saturday night" and cheap handguns in your own mind.
So you're all racists and you can't prove otherwise without specific, rigorous linguistic evidence to prove your assumption.
And that evidence does not exist, you racist gunwhore.
>> When you gather the courage to spell out that racist >> phrase, tell us who Bruce-Briggs is. And who published >> "Public Interest" in the Fall of 1976, which is where this >> quote comes from?
>> This guy's not a linguist, is he Markie? But he talks >> about "evidence", he makes a "conclusion". Based on what >> linguistic principle? Maybe Bruce-Briggs refers to the >> term "saturday night social", fondly recalling cross >> burnings and "lynching bees".
> You evidence is?
There's no etymology, just Bruce-Briggs, you pathetic dunce.
>> You have some explaining to do, little gunloon. You'd >> better start with the actual word under consideration. >> Spell it out, or just admit your argument is bogus.
> No, It is you that has "some explaining to do". Like stop > avoiding my question and answer it. I ask again, point out > one, just one, of the original debates on the second > amendment where it was argued whether the individual RIGHT > TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS even existed. State, federal or > otherwise. There is no such argument. >> [Saturday 3.]
>> Saturday Night
>> 1. Used attrib. of activities taking place on or as on a >> Saturday night, esp. some form of revelry. [1847 H. >> Melville Omoo xii. 49 The evening of the last day of the >> week was always celebrated by what is styled on board of >> English vessels, 'The Saturday-night bottles'. Two of >> these were sent down into the forecastle, just after >> dark.] 1896 'M. Rutherford' Clara Hopgood xii. 121 >> Saturday- night drunkenness and looseness in the relations >> between the young men and young women. [1938 G. Greene >> Brighton Rock iii. 124 'Saturday,' he thought, 'today's >> Saturday,' remembering the room at home, the frightening >> weekly exercise of his parents which he watched from his >> single bed. Ibid. vii. 320 The Boy was shaken again with >> his nocturnal Saturday disgust. He couldn't blame his >> father now.+ You couldn't even blame the girl.] 1942 >> Berrey & Van den Bark Amer. Thes. Slang §509/17 Saturday- >> night habit, week-end habit, indulgence in small amounts >> of narcotics at irregular intervals. 1951 Evening Sun >> (Baltimore) 27 Mar. 4/1 The graduate 'hype' was a >> 'student' or 'hoosier fiend' who 'dabbled' with drugs >> occasionally. He had what is known as 'chippy habit', a >> 'Saturday night habit', or an 'ice cream habit'. 1963 R. >> I. McDavid Mencken's Amer. Lang. xi. 742 Most cats >> consider it necessary to probe the mystic depths with the >> assistance of wine, a joint of pot+, peyote buttons and >> large infusions of invigorating jazz music-+in any event >> indulged in with friends as part of the Saturday night >> kicks. 1964 New Statesman 17 Apr. 606/2 Is the >> Saturday-night blind+any less characteristic of the modern >> urbanised proletariat than of the traditional rural >> peasantry? 1976 N.Y. Times Mag. 10 Oct. 111/2 [In the >> southern States of the U.S.] there were all those cross >> burnings, lynching bees and Sairday Nite Socials.
>> 2. spec. attrib. uses: Saturday night palsy or paralysis, >> temporary local paralysis of the arm, esp. wrist drop, >> after it has rested on a hard edge for a long time, as >> during sleep following a bout of drinking (colloq.); >> Saturday night pistol (U.S. colloq.) = Saturday night >> special; Saturday night soldier, a member of a volunteer >> army, as opp. a regular soldier; Saturday night special >> (U.S. colloq.), a cheap, low-calibre pistol or revolver >> such as might be used by a petty criminal. 1927 I. S. >> Wechsler Textbk. Clin. Neurol. iii. 249 The frequent >> occurrence of wrist drop in alcoholics who fall asleep and >> lean heavily on the arm has given rise to the common >> designation of 'Saturday night palsy'. 1942 Sun >> (Baltimore) 23 Apr. 22/2 A similar ailment is called >> 'shelter paralysis'-formerly known as 'Saturday night >> paralysis' because its victims were generally payday >> tipplers. 1951 E. Paul Springtime in Paris xii. 216 >> Berthe was suffering from what is known in the United >> States as Saturday-night paralysis,+when drunken men go to >> sleep in gutters, with one arm across a sharp kerbstone. >> 1974 Passmore & Robson Compan. Med. Stud. III. xxxiv. 35/1 >> Wrist drop thus produced is known as a 'Saturday night >> palsy'.
>> 1929 M. A. Gill Underworld Slang, Saturday night pistol, >> 25 automatic.
>> 1917 A. G. Empey Over Top 311 'Terrier', Tommy's nickname >> for a Territorial or 'Saturday-night soldier'. 1974 >> Maclean's Mag. Oct. 30/1 My husband was a Saturday Night >> soldier, the militia, and he couldn't wait for the war and >> when it started, zoom, he was called up and then he was >> happy.
>> 1968 N.Y. Times 17 Aug. 1/1 Title IV of that law bans the >> importation of the cheap, small-caliber 'Saturday night >> specials' that are a favorite of holdup men. 1976 Pioneer >> (Big Timber, Montana) 30 June 4/2 A ban on 'Saturday Night >> Special' handguns. 1977 C. McFadden Serial xlvi. 98/1 I'm >> not packing a Saturday-night special, really.
>> Hence Saturday nighter, a person who attends an >> entertainment on a Saturday night; Saturday-night v. >> intr., to spend a Saturday night in enjoyment or >> revelling. 1962 D. Lessing Golden Notebk. iv. 462 The >> fellows were out Saturday- nighting true-hearted, the >> wild-hearted Saturday- night gang of true friends. 1966 >> Listener 24 Mar. 422/2 The Korean script announced that Dr >> No was showing inside. So he was+and half the population >> of Korea was inside, too+all of us lapping up James Bond >> like Surbiton Saturday nighters.
>> - OED, 2nd Edition
> I have no idea why you posted this useless bit of tripe.
That's because you're a moron, Markie.
Does anybody at the NRA have a linguistically refereed etymology for that word you, as a racist, are afraid to spell but dishonestly bring to the argument to sell more new guns?
> Please try to keep on track with the issue. Now answer my > question. Point out one, just one, of the original debates > on the second amendment where it was argued whether the > individual RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS even existed. State, > federal or otherwise. There is no such argument.
That's because the right was always collective until the 19th century, you ignorant gunlobby whore.
So I guess you lose both arguments. You're not only wrong on the Second Amendment, you're also a blithering racist gunlobby shill. They apparently go together...
Laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh.
__________________
The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed, and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country; but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms, shall be compelled to render military service in person.
> > The author is trying to be politically correct and you use > > this as evidence that the whole argument is wrong? You are > > reaching.
> Where's your linguistic evidence that Bruce-Briggs' > "niggertown saturday night" has a direct relationship to > "saturday night special", Mark? Nobody has ever brought a > shred of evidence of that, and yet that's your claim.
Where's your evidence it isn't? It seems to be common knowledge except in your mind.
> I think it proves you're a bunch of ignorant gunloons who are > now exposed as racists, because you made a connection between > "niggertown" and "saturday night" and cheap handguns in your > own mind.
> So you're all racists and you can't prove otherwise without > specific, rigorous linguistic evidence to prove your > assumption.
> And that evidence does not exist, you racist gunwhore.
> >> When you gather the courage to spell out that racist > >> phrase, tell us who Bruce-Briggs is. And who published > >> "Public Interest" in the Fall of 1976, which is where this > >> quote comes from?
> >> This guy's not a linguist, is he Markie? But he talks > >> about "evidence", he makes a "conclusion". Based on what > >> linguistic principle? Maybe Bruce-Briggs refers to the > >> term "saturday night social", fondly recalling cross > >> burnings and "lynching bees".
> > You evidence is?
> There's no etymology, just Bruce-Briggs, you pathetic dunce.
The fact that all you can do is call me names and make up ridiculous accusations is proof of your lack of any substantive argument. Insults and crying racist are always the last effort of the losing side.
> >> You have some explaining to do, little gunloon. You'd > >> better start with the actual word under consideration. > >> Spell it out, or just admit your argument is bogus.
> > No, It is you that has "some explaining to do". Like stop > > avoiding my question and answer it. I ask again, point out > > one, just one, of the original debates on the second > > amendment where it was argued whether the individual RIGHT > > TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS even existed. State, federal or > > otherwise. There is no such argument.
> >> [Saturday 3.]
> >> Saturday Night
> >> 1. Used attrib. of activities taking place on or as on a > >> Saturday night, esp. some form of revelry. [1847 H. > >> Melville Omoo xii. 49 The evening of the last day of the > >> week was always celebrated by what is styled on board of > >> English vessels, 'The Saturday-night bottles'. Two of > >> these were sent down into the forecastle, just after > >> dark.] 1896 'M. Rutherford' Clara Hopgood xii. 121 > >> Saturday- night drunkenness and looseness in the relations > >> between the young men and young women. [1938 G. Greene > >> Brighton Rock iii. 124 'Saturday,' he thought, 'today's > >> Saturday,' remembering the room at home, the frightening > >> weekly exercise of his parents which he watched from his > >> single bed. Ibid. vii. 320 The Boy was shaken again with > >> his nocturnal Saturday disgust. He couldn't blame his > >> father now.+ You couldn't even blame the girl.] 1942 > >> Berrey & Van den Bark Amer. Thes. Slang §509/17 Saturday- > >> night habit, week-end habit, indulgence in small amounts > >> of narcotics at irregular intervals. 1951 Evening Sun > >> (Baltimore) 27 Mar. 4/1 The graduate 'hype' was a > >> 'student' or 'hoosier fiend' who 'dabbled' with drugs > >> occasionally. He had what is known as 'chippy habit', a > >> 'Saturday night habit', or an 'ice cream habit'. 1963 R. > >> I. McDavid Mencken's Amer. Lang. xi. 742 Most cats > >> consider it necessary to probe the mystic depths with the > >> assistance of wine, a joint of pot+, peyote buttons and > >> large infusions of invigorating jazz music-+in any event > >> indulged in with friends as part of the Saturday night > >> kicks. 1964 New Statesman 17 Apr. 606/2 Is the > >> Saturday-night blind+any less characteristic of the modern > >> urbanised proletariat than of the traditional rural > >> peasantry? 1976 N.Y. Times Mag. 10 Oct. 111/2 [In the > >> southern States of the U.S.] there were all those cross > >> burnings, lynching bees and Sairday Nite Socials.
> >> 2. spec. attrib. uses: Saturday night palsy or paralysis, > >> temporary local paralysis of the arm, esp. wrist drop, > >> after it has rested on a hard edge for a long time, as > >> during sleep following a bout of drinking (colloq.); > >> Saturday night pistol (U.S. colloq.) = Saturday night > >> special; Saturday night soldier, a member of a volunteer > >> army, as opp. a regular soldier; Saturday night special > >> (U.S. colloq.), a cheap, low-calibre pistol or revolver > >> such as might be used by a petty criminal. 1927 I. S. > >> Wechsler Textbk. Clin. Neurol. iii. 249 The frequent > >> occurrence of wrist drop in alcoholics who fall asleep and > >> lean heavily on the arm has given rise to the common > >> designation of 'Saturday night palsy'. 1942 Sun > >> (Baltimore) 23 Apr. 22/2 A similar ailment is called > >> 'shelter paralysis'-formerly known as 'Saturday night > >> paralysis' because its victims were generally payday > >> tipplers. 1951 E. Paul Springtime in Paris xii. 216 > >> Berthe was suffering from what is known in the United > >> States as Saturday-night paralysis,+when drunken men go to > >> sleep in gutters, with one arm across a sharp kerbstone. > >> 1974 Passmore & Robson Compan. Med. Stud. III. xxxiv. 35/1 > >> Wrist drop thus produced is known as a 'Saturday night > >> palsy'.
> >> 1929 M. A. Gill Underworld Slang, Saturday night pistol, > >> 25 automatic.
> >> 1917 A. G. Empey Over Top 311 'Terrier', Tommy's nickname > >> for a Territorial or 'Saturday-night soldier'. 1974 > >> Maclean's Mag. Oct. 30/1 My husband was a Saturday Night > >> soldier, the militia, and he couldn't wait for the war and > >> when it started, zoom, he was called up and then he was > >> happy.
> >> 1968 N.Y. Times 17 Aug. 1/1 Title IV of that law bans the > >> importation of the cheap, small-caliber 'Saturday night > >> specials' that are a favorite of holdup men. 1976 Pioneer > >> (Big Timber, Montana) 30 June 4/2 A ban on 'Saturday Night > >> Special' handguns. 1977 C. McFadden Serial xlvi. 98/1 I'm > >> not packing a Saturday-night special, really.
> >> Hence Saturday nighter, a person who attends an > >> entertainment on a Saturday night; Saturday-night v. > >> intr., to spend a Saturday night in enjoyment or > >> revelling. 1962 D. Lessing Golden Notebk. iv. 462 The > >> fellows were out Saturday- nighting true-hearted, the > >> wild-hearted Saturday- night gang of true friends. 1966 > >> Listener 24 Mar. 422/2 The Korean script announced that Dr > >> No was showing inside. So he was+and half the population > >> of Korea was inside, too+all of us lapping up James Bond > >> like Surbiton Saturday nighters.
> >> - OED, 2nd Edition
> > I have no idea why you posted this useless bit of tripe.
> That's because you're a moron, Markie.
The fact that all you can do is call me names and make up ridiculous accusations is proof of your lack of any substantive argument. Insults and crying racist are always the last effort of the losing side.
> Does anybody at the NRA have a linguistically refereed > etymology for that word you, as a racist, are afraid to spell > but dishonestly bring to the argument to sell more new guns?
Pointing out the racists roots of gun control is to sell more guns? How so?
> > Please try to keep on track with the issue. Now answer my > > question. Point out one, just one, of the original debates > > on the second amendment where it was argued whether the > > individual RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS even existed. State, > > federal or otherwise. There is no such argument.
> That's because the right was always collective until the 19th > century, you ignorant gunlobby whore.
Wrong. It was understood by nature. That's why, as I previously pointed out, they argued whether it was even necessary to clarify it in the Bill of Rights.
> So I guess you lose both arguments. You're not only wrong on > the Second Amendment, you're also a blithering racist > gunlobby shill. They apparently go together...
The fact that all you can do is call me names and make up ridiculous accusations is proof of your lack of any substantive argument. Insults and crying racist are always the last effort of the losing side.
> Laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh.
I grow tired of your childish antics. Answer my question or I must assume you are only grappling for anything to save face. I ask again, point out one, just one, of the original debates on the second amendment where it was argued whether the individual RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS even existed. State, federal or otherwise. There is no such argument.
>> > The author is trying to be politically correct and you >> > use this as evidence that the whole argument is wrong? >> > You are reaching.
>> Where's your linguistic evidence that Bruce-Briggs' >> "niggertown saturday night" has a direct relationship to >> "saturday night special", Mark? Nobody has ever brought a >> shred of evidence of that, and yet that's your claim.
> Where's your evidence it isn't? It seems to be common > knowledge except in your mind.
I have the OED; "tripe" according to you. It's pretty fucking great tripe, Markie. Your racist pals like Bruce Briggs probably mistook "saturday night special" with "saturday night social", intentionally mistook it of course.
So you're all busted for being shameless racists and idiot hucksters. Benny Hinn would be ashamed of your tawdry performance.
Okay, your turn Markup. Provide your linguistic evidence that saturday night special has any kind of racist word orgin.
>> I think it proves you're a bunch of ignorant gunloons who >> are now exposed as racists, because you made a connection >> between "niggertown" and "saturday night" and cheap >> handguns in your own mind.
>> So you're all racists and you can't prove otherwise >> without specific, rigorous linguistic evidence to prove >> your assumption.
>> And that evidence does not exist, you racist gunwhore.
You're so terrified of being found out as a racist that you wouldn't spell-out "niggertown" - but gleefully used the ellipseed word which all your pals would be sure to know, eh Markoid?
>> >> When you gather the courage to spell out that racist >> >> phrase, tell us who Bruce-Briggs is. And who published >> >> "Public Interest" in the Fall of 1976, which is where >> >> this quote comes from?
>> >> This guy's not a linguist, is he Markie? But he talks >> >> about "evidence", he makes a "conclusion". Based on >> >> what linguistic principle? Maybe Bruce-Briggs refers >> >> to the term "saturday night social", fondly recalling >> >> cross burnings and "lynching bees".
>> > You evidence is?
>> There's no etymology, just Bruce-Briggs, you pathetic >> dunce.
> The fact that all you can do is call me names and make up > ridiculous accusations is proof of your lack of any > substantive argument. Insults and crying racist are always > the last effort of the losing side.
You have nothing, you ridiculous ignoramus. You lose.
>> >> You have some explaining to do, little gunloon. You'd >> >> better start with the actual word under consideration. >> >> Spell it out, or just admit your argument is bogus.
>> > No, It is you that has "some explaining to do". Like >> > stop avoiding my question and answer it. I ask again, >> > point out one, just one, of the original debates on the >> > second amendment where it was argued whether the >> > individual RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS even existed. >> > State, federal or otherwise. There is no such argument.
>> >> [Saturday 3.]
>> >> Saturday Night
>> >> 1. Used attrib. of activities taking place on or as on >> >> a Saturday night, esp. some form of revelry. [1847 H. >> >> Melville Omoo xii. 49 The evening of the last day of >> >> the week was always celebrated by what is styled on >> >> board of English vessels, 'The Saturday-night bottles'. >> >> Two of these were sent down into the forecastle, just >> >> after dark.] 1896 'M. Rutherford' Clara Hopgood xii. >> >> 121 Saturday- night drunkenness and looseness in the >> >> relations between the young men and young women. [1938 >> >> G. Greene Brighton Rock iii. 124 'Saturday,' he >> >> thought, 'today's Saturday,' remembering the room at >> >> home, the frightening weekly exercise of his parents >> >> which he watched from his single bed. Ibid. vii. 320 >> >> The Boy was shaken again with his nocturnal Saturday >> >> disgust. He couldn't blame his father now.+ You >> >> couldn't even blame the girl.] 1942 Berrey & Van den >> >> Bark Amer. Thes. Slang §509/17 Saturday- night habit, >> >> week-end habit, indulgence in small amounts of >> >> narcotics at irregular intervals. 1951 Evening Sun >> >> (Baltimore) 27 Mar. 4/1 The graduate 'hype' was a >> >> 'student' or 'hoosier fiend' who 'dabbled' with drugs >> >> occasionally. He had what is known as 'chippy habit', a >> >> 'Saturday night habit', or an 'ice cream habit'. 1963 >> >> R. I. McDavid Mencken's Amer. Lang. xi. 742 Most cats >> >> consider it necessary to probe the mystic depths with >> >> the assistance of wine, a joint of pot+, peyote buttons >> >> and large infusions of invigorating jazz music-+in any >> >> event indulged in with friends as part of the Saturday >> >> night kicks. 1964 New Statesman 17 Apr. 606/2 Is the >> >> Saturday-night blind+any less characteristic of the >> >> modern urbanised proletariat than of the traditional >> >> rural peasantry? 1976 N.Y. Times Mag. 10 Oct. 111/2 >> >> [In the southern States of the U.S.] there were all >> >> those cross burnings, lynching bees and Sairday Nite >> >> Socials.
>> >> 2. spec. attrib. uses: Saturday night palsy or >> >> paralysis, temporary local paralysis of the arm, esp. >> >> wrist drop, after it has rested on a hard edge for a >> >> long time, as during sleep following a bout of drinking >> >> (colloq.); Saturday night pistol (U.S. colloq.) = >> >> Saturday night special; Saturday night soldier, a >> >> member of a volunteer army, as opp. a regular soldier; >> >> Saturday night special (U.S. colloq.), a cheap, >> >> low-calibre pistol or revolver such as might be used by >> >> a petty criminal. 1927 I. S. Wechsler Textbk. Clin. >> >> Neurol. iii. 249 The frequent occurrence of wrist drop >> >> in alcoholics who fall asleep and lean heavily on the >> >> arm has given rise to the common designation of >> >> 'Saturday night palsy'. 1942 Sun (Baltimore) 23 Apr. >> >> 22/2 A similar ailment is called 'shelter >> >> paralysis'-formerly known as 'Saturday night paralysis' >> >> because its victims were generally payday tipplers. >> >> 1951 E. Paul Springtime in Paris xii. 216 Berthe was >> >> suffering from what is known in the United States as >> >> Saturday-night paralysis,+when drunken men go to >> >> sleep in gutters, with one arm across a sharp >> >> kerbstone. 1974 Passmore & Robson Compan. Med. Stud. >> >> III. xxxiv. 35/1 Wrist drop thus produced is known as a >> >> 'Saturday night palsy'.
>> >> 1929 M. A. Gill Underworld Slang, Saturday night >> >> pistol, 25 automatic.
>> >> 1917 A. G. Empey Over Top 311 'Terrier', Tommy's >> >> nickname for a Territorial or 'Saturday-night soldier'. >> >> 1974 Maclean's Mag. Oct. 30/1 My husband was a >> >> Saturday Night soldier, the militia, and he couldn't >> >> wait for the war and when it started, zoom, he was >> >> called up and then he was happy.
>> >> 1968 N.Y. Times 17 Aug. 1/1 Title IV of that law bans >> >> the importation of the cheap, small-caliber 'Saturday >> >> night specials' that are a favorite of holdup men. >> >> 1976 Pioneer (Big Timber, Montana) 30 June 4/2 A ban on >> >> 'Saturday Night Special' handguns. 1977 C. McFadden >> >> Serial xlvi. 98/1 I'm not packing a Saturday-night >> >> special, really.
>> >> Hence Saturday nighter, a person who attends an >> >> entertainment on a Saturday night; Saturday-night v. >> >> intr., to spend a Saturday night in enjoyment or >> >> revelling. 1962 D. Lessing Golden Notebk. iv. 462 The >> >> fellows were out Saturday- nighting true-hearted, the >> >> wild-hearted Saturday- night gang of true friends. >> >> 1966 Listener 24 Mar. 422/2 The Korean script announced >> >> that Dr No was showing inside. So he was+and half the >> >> population of Korea was inside, too+all of us lapping >> >> up James Bond like Surbiton Saturday nighters.
>> >> - OED, 2nd Edition
>> > I have no idea why you posted this useless bit of tripe.
>> That's because you're a moron, Markie.
> The fact that all you can do is call me names and make up > ridiculous accusations is proof of your lack of any > substantive argument. Insults and crying racist are always > the last effort of the losing side.
This is your last ditch and you're laying face down in it, eh Murkwad?
Does the NRA know you're a complete washout as a propagandist? And you misplaced the next official lie to add to the stack of lies covering your gunlobby's ass about this "niggertown saturday night special" scandal?
It's quite a scandal to invent a racist phrase just to sell more cheap handguns. How will you cover ass for yourself and the NRA, where we found this claptrap, Markie?
>> Does anybody at the NRA have a linguistically refereed >> etymology for that word you, as a racist, are afraid to >> spell but dishonestly bring to the argument to sell more >> new guns?
> Pointing out the racists roots of gun control is to sell > more guns? How so?
Racism sells more guns than wars, doesn't it Mark?
So when you boys invented this racist lie you put the scare in good ole white boys all over the country. Black people are armed. White people need to buy more new guns to keep the black gunloons under control. It's just like the old slave patrol days but now the black folks have guns, not just shovels and hoes.
>> > Please try to keep on track with the issue. Now answer >> > my question. Point out one, just one, of the original >> > debates on the second amendment where it was argued >> > whether the individual RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS even >> > existed. State, federal or otherwise. There is no such >> > argument.
> >> > The author is trying to be politically correct and you > >> > use this as evidence that the whole argument is wrong? > >> > You are reaching.
> >> Where's your linguistic evidence that Bruce-Briggs' > >> "niggertown saturday night" has a direct relationship to > >> "saturday night special", Mark? Nobody has ever brought a > >> shred of evidence of that, and yet that's your claim.
> > Where's your evidence it isn't? It seems to be common > > knowledge except in your mind.
> I have the OED; "tripe" according to you. It's pretty > fucking great tripe, Markie. Your racist pals like Bruce > Briggs probably mistook "saturday night special" with > "saturday night social", intentionally mistook it of course.
> So you're all busted for being shameless racists and idiot > hucksters. Benny Hinn would be ashamed of your tawdry > performance.
> Okay, your turn Markup. Provide your linguistic evidence > that saturday night special has any kind of racist word > orgin.
> >> I think it proves you're a bunch of ignorant gunloons who > >> are now exposed as racists, because you made a connection > >> between "niggertown" and "saturday night" and cheap > >> handguns in your own mind.
> >> So you're all racists and you can't prove otherwise > >> without specific, rigorous linguistic evidence to prove > >> your assumption.
> >> And that evidence does not exist, you racist gunwhore.
> You're so terrified of being found out as a racist that you > wouldn't spell-out "niggertown" - but gleefully used the > ellipseed word which all your pals would be sure to know, eh > Markoid?
> It's a dead giveaway of your complicity.
> >> >> When you gather the courage to spell out that racist > >> >> phrase, tell us who Bruce-Briggs is. And who published > >> >> "Public Interest" in the Fall of 1976, which is where > >> >> this quote comes from?
> >> >> This guy's not a linguist, is he Markie? But he talks > >> >> about "evidence", he makes a "conclusion". Based on > >> >> what linguistic principle? Maybe Bruce-Briggs refers > >> >> to the term "saturday night social", fondly recalling > >> >> cross burnings and "lynching bees".
> >> > You evidence is?
> >> There's no etymology, just Bruce-Briggs, you pathetic > >> dunce.
> > The fact that all you can do is call me names and make up > > ridiculous accusations is proof of your lack of any > > substantive argument. Insults and crying racist are always > > the last effort of the losing side.
> You have nothing, you ridiculous ignoramus. You lose.
> >> >> You have some explaining to do, little gunloon. You'd > >> >> better start with the actual word under consideration. > >> >> Spell it out, or just admit your argument is bogus.
> >> > No, It is you that has "some explaining to do". Like > >> > stop avoiding my question and answer it. I ask again, > >> > point out one, just one, of the original debates on the > >> > second amendment where it was argued whether the > >> > individual RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS even existed. > >> > State, federal or otherwise. There is no such argument.
> >> >> [Saturday 3.]
> >> >> Saturday Night
> >> >> 1. Used attrib. of activities taking place on or as on > >> >> a Saturday night, esp. some form of revelry. [1847 H. > >> >> Melville Omoo xii. 49 The evening of the last day of > >> >> the week was always celebrated by what is styled on > >> >> board of English vessels, 'The Saturday-night bottles'. > >> >> Two of these were sent down into the forecastle, just > >> >> after dark.] 1896 'M. Rutherford' Clara Hopgood xii. > >> >> 121 Saturday- night drunkenness and looseness in the > >> >> relations between the young men and young women. [1938 > >> >> G. Greene Brighton Rock iii. 124 'Saturday,' he > >> >> thought, 'today's Saturday,' remembering the room at > >> >> home, the frightening weekly exercise of his parents > >> >> which he watched from his single bed. Ibid. vii. 320 > >> >> The Boy was shaken again with his nocturnal Saturday > >> >> disgust. He couldn't blame his father now.+ You > >> >> couldn't even blame the girl.] 1942 Berrey & Van den > >> >> Bark Amer. Thes. Slang §509/17 Saturday- night habit, > >> >> week-end habit, indulgence in small amounts of > >> >> narcotics at irregular intervals. 1951 Evening Sun > >> >> (Baltimore) 27 Mar. 4/1 The graduate 'hype' was a > >> >> 'student' or 'hoosier fiend' who 'dabbled' with drugs > >> >> occasionally. He had what is known as 'chippy habit', a > >> >> 'Saturday night habit', or an 'ice cream habit'. 1963 > >> >> R. I. McDavid Mencken's Amer. Lang. xi. 742 Most cats > >> >> consider it necessary to probe the mystic depths with > >> >> the assistance of wine, a joint of pot+, peyote buttons > >> >> and large infusions of invigorating jazz music-+in any > >> >> event indulged in with friends as part of the Saturday > >> >> night kicks. 1964 New Statesman 17 Apr. 606/2 Is the > >> >> Saturday-night blind+any less characteristic of the > >> >> modern urbanised proletariat than of the traditional > >> >> rural peasantry? 1976 N.Y. Times Mag. 10 Oct. 111/2 > >> >> [In the southern States of the U.S.] there were all > >> >> those cross burnings, lynching bees and Sairday Nite > >> >> Socials.
> >> >> 2. spec. attrib. uses: Saturday night palsy or > >> >> paralysis, temporary local paralysis of the arm, esp. > >> >> wrist drop, after it has rested on a hard edge for a > >> >> long time, as during sleep following a bout of drinking > >> >> (colloq.); Saturday night pistol (U.S. colloq.) = > >> >> Saturday night special; Saturday night soldier, a > >> >> member of a volunteer army, as opp. a regular soldier; > >> >> Saturday night special (U.S. colloq.), a cheap, > >> >> low-calibre pistol or revolver such as might be used by > >> >> a petty criminal. 1927 I. S. Wechsler Textbk. Clin. > >> >> Neurol. iii. 249 The frequent occurrence of wrist drop > >> >> in alcoholics who fall asleep and lean heavily on the > >> >> arm has given rise to the common designation of > >> >> 'Saturday night palsy'. 1942 Sun (Baltimore) 23 Apr. > >> >> 22/2 A similar ailment is called 'shelter > >> >> paralysis'-formerly known as 'Saturday night paralysis' > >> >> because its victims were generally payday tipplers. > >> >> 1951 E. Paul Springtime in Paris xii. 216 Berthe was > >> >> suffering from what is known in the United States as > >> >> Saturday-night paralysis,+when drunken men go to > >> >> sleep in gutters, with one arm across a sharp > >> >> kerbstone. 1974 Passmore & Robson Compan. Med. Stud. > >> >> III. xxxiv. 35/1 Wrist drop thus produced is known as a > >> >> 'Saturday night palsy'.
> >> >> 1929 M. A. Gill Underworld Slang, Saturday night > >> >> pistol, 25 automatic.
> >> >> 1917 A. G. Empey Over Top 311 'Terrier', Tommy's > >> >> nickname for a Territorial or 'Saturday-night soldier'. > >> >> 1974 Maclean's Mag. Oct. 30/1 My husband was a > >> >> Saturday Night soldier, the militia, and he couldn't > >> >> wait for the war and when it started, zoom, he was > >> >> called up and then he was happy.
> >> >> 1968 N.Y. Times 17 Aug. 1/1 Title IV of that law bans > >> >> the importation of the cheap, small-caliber 'Saturday > >> >> night specials' that are a favorite of holdup men. > >> >> 1976 Pioneer (Big Timber, Montana) 30 June 4/2 A ban on > >> >> 'Saturday Night Special' handguns. 1977 C. McFadden > >> >> Serial xlvi. 98/1 I'm not packing a Saturday-night > >> >> special, really.
> >> >> Hence Saturday nighter, a person who attends an > >> >> entertainment on a Saturday night; Saturday-night v. > >> >> intr., to spend a Saturday night in enjoyment or > >> >> revelling. 1962 D. Lessing Golden Notebk. iv. 462 The > >> >> fellows were out Saturday- nighting true-hearted, the > >> >> wild-hearted Saturday- night gang of true friends. > >> >> 1966 Listener 24 Mar. 422/2 The Korean script announced > >> >> that Dr No was showing inside. So he was+and half the > >> >> population of Korea was inside, too+all of us lapping > >> >> up James Bond like Surbiton Saturday nighters.
> >> >> - OED, 2nd Edition
> >> > I have no idea why you posted this useless bit of tripe.
> >> That's because you're a moron, Markie.
> > The fact that all you can do is call me names and make up > > ridiculous accusations is proof of your lack of any > > substantive argument. Insults and crying racist are always > > the last effort of the losing side.
> This is your last ditch and you're laying face down in it, eh > Murkwad?
> Does the NRA know you're a complete washout as a > propagandist? And you misplaced the next official lie to add > to the stack of lies covering your gunlobby's ass about this > "niggertown saturday night special" scandal?
> It's quite a scandal to invent a racist phrase just to sell > more cheap handguns. How will you cover ass for yourself and > the NRA, where we found this claptrap, Markie?
> >> Does anybody at the NRA have a linguistically refereed > >> etymology for that word you, as a racist, are afraid to > >> spell but dishonestly bring to the argument to sell more > >> new guns?
> > Pointing out the racists roots of gun control is to sell > > more guns? How so?
> Racism sells more guns than wars, doesn't it Mark?
> So when you boys invented this racist lie you put the scare > in good ole white boys all over the country. Black people > are armed. White people need to buy more new guns to keep > the black
>> >> > The author is trying to be politically correct and >> >> > you use this as evidence that the whole argument is >> >> > wrong? You are reaching.
>> >> Where's your linguistic evidence that Bruce-Briggs' >> >> "niggertown saturday night" has a direct relationship >> >> to "saturday night special", Mark? Nobody has ever >> >> brought a shred of evidence of that, and yet that's >> >> your claim.
>> > Where's your evidence it isn't? It seems to be common >> > knowledge except in your mind.
>> I have the OED; "tripe" according to you. It's pretty >> fucking great tripe, Markie. Your racist pals like Bruce >> Briggs probably mistook "saturday night special" with >> "saturday night social", intentionally mistook it of >> course.
>> So you're all busted for being shameless racists and idiot >> hucksters. Benny Hinn would be ashamed of your tawdry >> performance.
>> Okay, your turn Markup. Provide your linguistic evidence >> that saturday night special has any kind of racist word >> orgin.
>> >> I think it proves you're a bunch of ignorant gunloons >> >> who are now exposed as racists, because you made a >> >> connection between "niggertown" and "saturday night" >> >> and cheap handguns in your own mind.
>> >> So you're all racists and you can't prove otherwise >> >> without specific, rigorous linguistic evidence to prove >> >> your assumption.
>> >> And that evidence does not exist, you racist gunwhore.
>> You're so terrified of being found out as a racist that >> you wouldn't spell-out "niggertown" - but gleefully used >> the ellipseed word which all your pals would be sure to >> know, eh Markoid?
>> It's a dead giveaway of your complicity.
>> >> >> When you gather the courage to spell out that racist >> >> >> phrase, tell us who Bruce-Briggs is. And who >> >> >> published "Public Interest" in the Fall of 1976, >> >> >> which is where this quote comes from?
>> >> >> This guy's not a linguist, is he Markie? But he >> >> >> talks about "evidence", he makes a "conclusion". >> >> >> Based on what linguistic principle? Maybe >> >> >> Bruce-Briggs refers to the term "saturday night >> >> >> social", fondly recalling cross burnings and >> >> >> "lynching bees".
>> >> > You evidence is?
>> >> There's no etymology, just Bruce-Briggs, you pathetic >> >> dunce.
>> > The fact that all you can do is call me names and make >> > up ridiculous accusations is proof of your lack of any >> > substantive argument. Insults and crying racist are >> > always the last effort of the losing side.
>> You have nothing, you ridiculous ignoramus. You lose.
>> >> >> You have some explaining to do, little gunloon. >> >> >> You'd better start with the actual word under >> >> >> consideration. Spell it out, or just admit your >> >> >> argument is bogus.
>> >> > No, It is you that has "some explaining to do". Like >> >> > stop avoiding my question and answer it. I ask again, >> >> > point out one, just one, of the original debates on >> >> > the second amendment where it was argued whether the >> >> > individual RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS even existed. >> >> > State, federal or otherwise. There is no such >> >> > argument.
>> >> >> [Saturday 3.]
>> >> >> Saturday Night
>> >> >> 1. Used attrib. of activities taking place on or as >> >> >> on a Saturday night, esp. some form of revelry. >> >> >> [1847 H. Melville Omoo xii. 49 The evening of the >> >> >> last day of the week was always celebrated by what >> >> >> is styled on board of English vessels, 'The >> >> >> Saturday-night bottles'. Two of these were sent down >> >> >> into the forecastle, just after dark.] 1896 'M. >> >> >> Rutherford' Clara Hopgood xii. 121 Saturday- night >> >> >> drunkenness and looseness in the relations between >> >> >> the young men and young women. [1938 G. Greene >> >> >> Brighton Rock iii. 124 'Saturday,' he thought, >> >> >> 'today's Saturday,' remembering the room at >> >> >> home, the frightening weekly exercise of his parents >> >> >> which he watched from his single bed. Ibid. vii. >> >> >> 320 The Boy was shaken again with his nocturnal >> >> >> Saturday disgust. He couldn't blame his father now.+ >> >> >> You couldn't even blame the girl.] 1942 Berrey & >> >> >> Van den Bark Amer. Thes. Slang §509/17 Saturday- >> >> >> night habit, week-end habit, indulgence in small >> >> >> amounts of narcotics at irregular intervals. 1951 >> >> >> Evening Sun (Baltimore) 27 Mar. 4/1 The graduate >> >> >> 'hype' was a 'student' or 'hoosier fiend' who >> >> >> 'dabbled' with drugs occasionally. He had what is >> >> >> known as 'chippy habit', a 'Saturday night habit', >> >> >> or an 'ice cream habit'. 1963 R. I. McDavid >> >> >> Mencken's Amer. Lang. xi. 742 Most cats consider it >> >> >> necessary to probe the mystic depths with the >> >> >> assistance of wine, a joint of pot+, peyote buttons >> >> >> and large infusions of invigorating jazz music-+in >> >> >> any event indulged in with friends as part of the >> >> >> Saturday night kicks. 1964 New Statesman 17 Apr. >> >> >> 606/2 Is the Saturday-night blind+any less >> >> >> characteristic of the modern urbanised proletariat >> >> >> than of the traditional rural peasantry? 1976 N.Y. >> >> >> Times Mag. 10 Oct. 111/2 [In the southern States of >> >> >> the U.S.] there were all those cross burnings, >> >> >> lynching bees and Sairday Nite Socials.
>> >> >> 2. spec. attrib. uses: Saturday night palsy or >> >> >> paralysis, temporary local paralysis of the arm, >> >> >> esp. wrist drop, after it has rested on a hard edge >> >> >> for a long time, as during sleep following a bout of >> >> >> drinking (colloq.); Saturday night pistol (U.S. >> >> >> colloq.) = Saturday night special; Saturday night >> >> >> soldier, a member of a volunteer army, as opp. a >> >> >> regular soldier; Saturday night special (U.S. >> >> >> colloq.), a cheap, low-calibre pistol or revolver >> >> >> such as might be used by a petty criminal. 1927 I. >> >> >> S. Wechsler Textbk. Clin. Neurol. iii. 249 The >> >> >> frequent occurrence of wrist drop in alcoholics who >> >> >> fall asleep and lean heavily on the arm has given >> >> >> rise to the common designation of 'Saturday night >> >> >> palsy'. 1942 Sun (Baltimore) 23 Apr. 22/2 A similar >> >> >> ailment is called 'shelter paralysis'-formerly known >> >> >> as 'Saturday night paralysis' because its victims >> >> >> were generally payday tipplers. 1951 E. Paul >> >> >> Springtime in Paris xii. 216 Berthe was suffering >> >> >> from what is known in the United States as >> >> >> Saturday-night paralysis,+when drunken men go to >> >> >> sleep in gutters, with one arm across a sharp >> >> >> kerbstone. 1974 Passmore & Robson Compan. Med. Stud. >> >> >> III. xxxiv. 35/1 Wrist drop thus produced is known >> >> >> as a 'Saturday night palsy'.
>> >> >> 1929 M. A. Gill Underworld Slang, Saturday night >> >> >> pistol, 25 automatic.
>> >> >> 1917 A. G. Empey Over Top 311 'Terrier', Tommy's >> >> >> nickname for a Territorial or 'Saturday-night >> >> >> soldier'. >> >> >> 1974 Maclean's Mag. Oct. 30/1 My husband was a >> >> >> Saturday Night soldier, the militia, and he couldn't >> >> >> wait for the war and when it started, zoom, he was >> >> >> called up and then he was happy.
>> >> >> 1968 N.Y. Times 17 Aug. 1/1 Title IV of that law >> >> >> bans the importation of the cheap, small-caliber >> >> >> 'Saturday night specials' that are a favorite of >> >> >> holdup men. 1976 Pioneer (Big Timber, Montana) 30 >> >> >> June 4/2 A ban on 'Saturday Night Special' handguns. >> >> >> 1977 C. McFadden Serial xlvi. 98/1 I'm not packing >> >> >> a Saturday-night special, really.
>> >> >> Hence Saturday nighter, a person who attends an >> >> >> entertainment on a Saturday night; Saturday-night v. >> >> >> intr., to spend a Saturday night in enjoyment or >> >> >> revelling. 1962 D. Lessing Golden Notebk. iv. 462 >> >> >> The fellows were out Saturday- nighting >> >> >> true-hearted, the wild-hearted Saturday- night gang >> >> >> of true friends. 1966 Listener 24 Mar. 422/2 The >> >> >> Korean script announced that Dr No was showing >> >> >> inside. So he was+and half the population of Korea >> >> >> was inside, too+all of us lapping up James Bond like >> >> >> Surbiton Saturday nighters.
>> >> >> - OED, 2nd Edition
>> >> > I have no idea why you posted this useless bit of >> >> > tripe.
>> >> That's because you're a moron, Markie.
>> > The fact that all you can do is call me names and make >> > up ridiculous accusations is proof of your lack of any >> > substantive argument. Insults and crying racist are >> > always the last effort of the losing side.
>> This is your last ditch and you're laying face down in it, >> eh Murkwad?
>> Does the NRA know you're a complete washout as a >> propagandist? And you misplaced the next official lie to >> add to the stack of lies covering your gunlobby's ass >> about this "niggertown saturday night special" scandal?
>> It's quite a scandal to invent a racist phrase just to >> sell more cheap handguns. How will you cover ass for >> yourself and the NRA, where we found this claptrap, >> Markie?
>> >> Does anybody at the NRA have a linguistically refereed >> >> etymology for that word you, as a racist, are afraid to >> >> spell but
> > You have become completely incoherent in your rants. > > Nothing but insults and race card baiting left.
> You can easily dispose of the race card, Markwad. Just admit > there's nothong racist about the term Saturday Night Special > or about regulating cheap handguns.
> Thank you
> You are so very welcome, shill. Contact your benevolent > gunlobby overlords and tell them the Saturday Night Special > disinformation campaign is now counterproductive.
> When the NRA deletes their Saturday Night Special page I'll > stop calling you a disgusting racist liar. That's fair, > isn't it Mark-vac?
BTW: You still have not answered my question. Point out one, just one, of the original debates on the second amendment where it was argued whether the individual RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS even existed. State, federal or otherwise. There is no such argument.
Mark
Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.
--- Jefferson's "Commonplace Book," 1774-1776, quoting from On Crimes and Punishment, by criminologist Cesare Beccaria, 1764
>> > You have become completely incoherent in your rants. >> > Nothing but insults and race card baiting left.
>> You can easily dispose of the race card, Markwad. Just >> admit there's nothong racist about the term Saturday Night >> Special or about regulating cheap handguns.
>> Thank you
>> You are so very welcome, shill. Contact your benevolent >> gunlobby overlords and tell them the Saturday Night >> Special disinformation campaign is now counterproductive.
>> When the NRA deletes their Saturday Night Special page >> I'll stop calling you a disgusting racist liar. That's >> fair, isn't it Mark-vac?
Now, explain how you get any racist origin from the term "Saturday Night Special", knowing as you do now that the racist term "Saturday Night Social", which means an attack by usually disguised racists against black people, is so close to your chosen and more blatantly racist precursor, "Niggertown Saturday Night."
See, your gunlobby's linguistic choices are far more revealing of racism than the term they tried to charge with racist meaning. Don't you think that's interesting, Poodwaddle?
> yes it's from the NRA fact sheet. All sources included. It > is up to you to refute it.
> BTW: You still have not answered my question. Point out
I didn't have to answer your loaded question but I did answer it and kicked your stupid ass with it.
Now tell us where in the world you got the racist notion that Saturday Night Special has a racist origin; or just keep running...
Laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh.
_____________________
“The Second Amendment has no place in modern society.”
- Alan Dershowitz. Harvard Crimson, April 9, 2003.
> >> > You have become completely incoherent in your rants. > >> > Nothing but insults and race card baiting left.
> >> You can easily dispose of the race card, Markwad. Just > >> admit there's nothong racist about the term Saturday Night > >> Special or about regulating cheap handguns.
> >> Thank you
> >> You are so very welcome, shill. Contact your benevolent > >> gunlobby overlords and tell them the Saturday Night > >> Special disinformation campaign is now counterproductive.
> >> When the NRA deletes their Saturday Night Special page > >> I'll stop calling you a disgusting racist liar. That's > >> fair, isn't it Mark-vac?
> Yeah, I already posted the url for you, dumbass.
> Now, explain how you get any racist origin from the term > "Saturday Night Special", knowing as you do now that the > racist term "Saturday Night Social", which means an attack by > usually disguised racists against black people, is so close > to your chosen and more blatantly racist precursor, > "Niggertown Saturday Night."
> See, your gunlobby's linguistic choices are far more > revealing of racism than the term they tried to charge with > racist meaning. Don't you think that's interesting, > Poodwaddle?
> > yes it's from the NRA fact sheet. All sources included. It > > is up to you to refute it.
> > BTW: You still have not answered my question. Point out
> I didn't have to answer your loaded question but I did answer > it and kicked your stupid ass with it.
> Now tell us where in the world you got the racist notion that > Saturday Night Special has a racist origin; or just keep > running...
> Laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh.
No, you didn't answer my question. Again I ask. Point out one, just one, of the original debates on the second amendment where it was argued whether the individual RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS even existed. State, federal or otherwise. There is no such argument.
>> >> > You have become completely incoherent in your rants. >> >> > Nothing but insults and race card baiting left.
>> >> You can easily dispose of the race card, Markwad. Just >> >> admit there's nothong racist about the term Saturday >> >> Night Special or about regulating cheap handguns.
>> >> Thank you
>> >> You are so very welcome, shill. Contact your >> >> benevolent gunlobby overlords and tell them the >> >> Saturday Night Special disinformation campaign is now >> >> counterproductive.
>> >> When the NRA deletes their Saturday Night Special page >> >> I'll stop calling you a disgusting racist liar. That's >> >> fair, isn't it Mark-vac?
>> Yeah, I already posted the url for you, dumbass.
>> Now, explain how you get any racist origin from the term >> "Saturday Night Special", knowing as you do now that the >> racist term "Saturday Night Social", which means an attack >> by usually disguised racists against black people, is so >> close to your chosen and more blatantly racist precursor, >> "Niggertown Saturday Night."
>> See, your gunlobby's linguistic choices are far more >> revealing of racism than the term they tried to charge >> with racist meaning. Don't you think that's interesting, >> Poodwaddle?
>> > yes it's from the NRA fact sheet. All sources included. >> > It is up to you to refute it.
>> > BTW: You still have not answered my question. Point out
>> I didn't have to answer your loaded question but I did >> answer it and kicked your stupid ass with it.
>> Now tell us where in the world you got the racist notion >> that Saturday Night Special has a racist origin; or just >> keep running...
>> Laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh.
> No, you didn't answer my question.
I answered it several times Markwad.
Now it's time to dispense with the typical gunlobby evasion of facts and tell everybody why your gunlobby heroes concocted a racist attack against liberals and centrists who support reasonable gun control.
> Again I ask. Point out > one, just one, of the original debates on the second > amendment where it was argued whether the individual RIGHT > TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS even existed. State, federal or > otherwise. There is no such argument.
How many times do I have to post it? As many times as you can delete it, eh little gunlobby stooge?
Now explain how your racist misuse of the term Saturday Night Special deserves anything besides condemnation.
As a racist supporter yourself, you must have smiled at the similarity of "Saturday Night Special" to "Saturday Night Social", right Markwad? And you knew by assigning fake racist origins to "Saturday Night Special" you'd sell lots more of those cheap handguns to poor whites.
BTW, you don't have any reliable sales statistics that show either blacks or whites buy Saturday Night Specials with greater frequency, do you? It's probably lower income people rather than any particular racial group that buys less expensive guns more often, right? And they'll be more likely to buy USED guns, which is exactly what the gun industry fears most.
So they get racist on the sales pitch. They play white fears off black stereotypes; black fears off white stereotypes.
Sell more new cheap handguns.
_______________
THE DECLINE AND FALL OF THE NRA - DEDICATION
"If we win, we'll have a president, with at least one of the people that's running, a president where we work out of their office. Unbelievably friendly relations..."
- NRA First Vice President Kayne Robinson telling members in California that the group enjoyed "unbelievably friendly relations" with Bush.
> >> >> > You have become completely incoherent in your rants. > >> >> > Nothing but insults and race card baiting left.
> >> >> You can easily dispose of the race card, Markwad. Just > >> >> admit there's nothong racist about the term Saturday > >> >> Night Special or about regulating cheap handguns.
> >> >> Thank you
> >> >> You are so very welcome, shill. Contact your > >> >> benevolent gunlobby overlords and tell them the > >> >> Saturday Night Special disinformation campaign is now > >> >> counterproductive.
> >> >> When the NRA deletes their Saturday Night Special page > >> >> I'll stop calling you a disgusting racist liar. That's > >> >> fair, isn't it Mark-vac?
> >> Yeah, I already posted the url for you, dumbass.
> >> Now, explain how you get any racist origin from the term > >> "Saturday Night Special", knowing as you do now that the > >> racist term "Saturday Night Social", which means an attack > >> by usually disguised racists against black people, is so > >> close to your chosen and more blatantly racist precursor, > >> "Niggertown Saturday Night."
> >> See, your gunlobby's linguistic choices are far more > >> revealing of racism than the term they tried to charge > >> with racist meaning. Don't you think that's interesting, > >> Poodwaddle?
> >> > yes it's from the NRA fact sheet. All sources included. > >> > It is up to you to refute it.
> >> > BTW: You still have not answered my question. Point out
> >> I didn't have to answer your loaded question but I did > >> answer it and kicked your stupid ass with it.
> >> Now tell us where in the world you got the racist notion > >> that Saturday Night Special has a racist origin; or just > >> keep running...
> >> Laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh.
> > No, you didn't answer my question.
> I answered it several times Markwad.
> Now it's time to dispense with the typical gunlobby evasion > of facts and tell everybody why your gunlobby heroes > concocted a racist attack against liberals and centrists who > support reasonable gun control.
To a Democrat that is total confiscation!!!! And that is stupid!! Every city that has made owning a firearm illegal has had their crime rate go up!!! What makes you so afraid of a gun "could it be when you are trying to break into my house that I might shoot you???? Answer that one!!! There are more people killed in Bicycle accidents than by guns!!! Should they be made illegal also?????
> > Again I ask. Point out > > one, just one, of the original debates on the second > > amendment where it was argued whether the individual RIGHT > > TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS even existed. State, federal or > > otherwise. There is no such argument.
> How many times do I have to post it? As many times as you > can delete it, eh little gunlobby stooge?
> Now explain how your racist misuse of the term Saturday Night > Special deserves anything besides condemnation.
> As a racist supporter yourself, you must have smiled at the > similarity of "Saturday Night Special" to "Saturday Night > Social", right Markwad? And you knew by assigning fake > racist origins to "Saturday Night Special" you'd sell lots > more of those cheap handguns to poor whites.
> BTW, you don't have any reliable sales statistics that show > either blacks or whites buy Saturday Night Specials with > greater frequency, do you? It's probably lower income people > rather than any particular racial group that buys less > expensive guns more often, right? And they'll be more likely > to buy USED guns, which is exactly what the gun industry > fears most.
> So they get racist on the sales pitch. They play white fears > off black stereotypes; black fears off white stereotypes.
> Sell more new cheap handguns.
> _______________
> THE DECLINE AND FALL OF THE NRA - DEDICATION
> "If we win, we'll have a president, with at least one of the > people that's running, a president where we work out of > their office. Unbelievably friendly relations..."
> - NRA First Vice President Kayne Robinson telling members in > California that the group enjoyed "unbelievably friendly > relations" with Bush.
> Now it's time to dispense with the typical gunlobby evasion > of facts and tell everybody why your gunlobby heroes > concocted a racist attack against liberals and centrists who > support reasonable gun control.
You can not prove this. Nobody "concocted a racist attack against liberals and centrists who support reasonable gun control". But we all know what your definition of "reasonable gun control" is.
> > Again I ask. Point out > > one, just one, of the original debates on the second > > amendment where it was argued whether the individual RIGHT > > TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS even existed. State, federal or > > otherwise. There is no such argument.
> How many times do I have to post it? As many times as you > can delete it, eh little gunlobby stooge?
You have not posted one of the original debates on the second amendment where it was argued whether the individual RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS even existed. State, federal or otherwise. There is no such argument.
> Now explain how your racist misuse of the term Saturday Night > Special deserves anything besides condemnation.
> As a racist supporter yourself, you must have smiled at the > similarity of "Saturday Night Special" to "Saturday Night > Social", right Markwad? And you knew by assigning fake > racist origins to "Saturday Night Special" you'd sell lots > more of those cheap handguns to poor whites.
You can continue to cry racism all you want. It doesn't make it so. The race card is last ditch effort of losing argument.
> BTW, you don't have any reliable sales statistics that show > either blacks or whites buy Saturday Night Specials with > greater frequency, do you? It's probably lower income people > rather than any particular racial group that buys less > expensive guns more often, right? And they'll be more likely > to buy USED guns, which is exactly what the gun industry > fears most.
I don't remember claiming blacks or whites bought Saturday Night Specials with greater frequency. Where did you get that? I did point out that the origins of gun control are racist.
> So they get racist on the sales pitch. They play white fears > off black stereotypes; black fears off white stereotypes.
> Sell more new cheap handguns.
You have evidence of this?
BTW: You still have not answered my question. Again I ask. Point out one, just one, of the original debates on the second amendment where it was argued whether the individual RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS even existed. State, federal or otherwise. There is no such argument.
>> Now it's time to dispense with the typical gunlobby >> evasion of facts and tell everybody why your gunlobby >> heroes concocted a racist attack against liberals and >> centrists who support reasonable gun control.
> You can not prove this. Nobody "concocted a racist attack > against liberals and centrists who support reasonable gun > control".
The gunlobby did it.
> But we all know what your definition of > "reasonable gun control" is.
There you go again. You say reasonable gun control is no gun control. I say reasonable gun control is some gun control.
Your position is not reasonable. Mine is.
>> > Again I ask. Point out >> > one, just one, of the original debates on the second >> > amendment where it was argued whether the individual >> > RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS even existed. State, federal >> > or otherwise. There is no such argument.
>> How many times do I have to post it? As many times as you >> can delete it, eh little gunlobby stooge?
> You have not posted one of the original debates on the > second amendment where it was argued whether the individual > RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS even existed. State, federal or > otherwise. There is no such argument.
I've podted them, Krulick's posted them, Leif's posted them, and you delete them.
See Eliot's Debates. Search for "militia". Tons of of it. Do your own homework, deleter.
>> Now explain how your racist misuse of the term Saturday >> Night Special deserves anything besides condemnation.
>> As a racist supporter yourself, you must have smiled at >> the similarity of "Saturday Night Special" to "Saturday >> Night Social", right Markwad? And you knew by assigning >> fake racist origins to "Saturday Night Special" you'd sell >> lots more of those cheap handguns to poor whites.
> You can continue to cry racism all you want. It doesn't > make it so. The race card is last ditch effort of losing > argument.
Not this time. You boys used racism to promote gun sales.
Bad idea.
>> BTW, you don't have any reliable sales statistics that >> show either blacks or whites buy Saturday Night Specials >> with greater frequency, do you? It's probably lower >> income people rather than any particular racial group that >> buys less expensive guns more often, right? And they'll >> be more likely to buy USED guns, which is exactly what the >> gun industry fears most.
> I don't remember claiming blacks or whites bought Saturday > Night Specials with greater frequency. Where did you get > that? I did point out that the origins of gun control are > racist.
The false description of gun control laws that regulate Saturday Night Specials as racist, and the name Saturday Night Special as having racist origins, is racist; it uses racism as a marketing ploy. For that you must confess in public and stop using racist marketing campaigns.
Starting tomorrow.
>> So they get racist on the sales pitch. They play white >> fears off black stereotypes; black fears off white >> stereotypes.
>> Sell more new cheap handguns.
> You have evidence of this?
> BTW: You still have not answered my question. Again I ask. > Point out one, just one, of the original debates on the > second amendment where it was argued whether the individual > RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS even existed. State, federal or > otherwise. There is no such argument.
Check out all the page headings that have something to do with the militia. That's what I did.
Search Google Groups for our previous posts, I don't intend to keep reposting text until it's drained of meaning. If you insist on remaining ignorant to protect your position with the gunlobby, go right ahead. But you'll have nothing to bitch about when we post facts that prove you wrong.
Like, recently I said the government began arming the militia soon after the War of 1812, and one of your gunloons challenged my statement. I ignored the challenge because I knew my statement was true, but tonoght I just happened on this, browsing Annals of Congress subject headers:
[begin text]
Annals of Congress, House of Representatives, 17th Congress, 2nd Session Pages 433 & 434 December 20, 1822
ARMING MILITIA WITH RIFLES.
Mr. WRIGHT submitted the following
Resolved, That the Committee on the Militia be instructed to inquire into the expediency of arming the militia with rifles, except those residing in cities, towns, and villages, and report thereon by bill or otherwise.
In offering this resolution, Mr. WRIGHT said he had Submitted it in confidence of the attention of the House to the subject, it being one of the first importance, the protection of the liberties of the people, and from his own experience in the use of fire arms, having taken a hand in two wars, he hoped for the attention of the House to his remarks. The militia in the country, said Mr. W., in their dispersed situation, can never be taught the use of the musket, and manmuvres necessary to fit them to contend with a regular foreign army. The labor they undergo in their periodical meetings, their marchings and counter-marches ; their lugging their rusty muskets five or six miles, or, per-adventure, the using sticks for firelocks, is truly painful to a spectator skilled in arms, I know vastly distressing to the country militia. They, sir, have such disgust to this business, and such antipathy to the duties of militiamen, have so little confidence in their fitness to contend with a regular army, that they consider themselves as sacrifices to the liberties of their country, when thus compelled to fight. But, sir, arm the country militia with rifles, and possess each of them with a rifle, compel them to meet as often as may be thought necessary, and distribute the fines and forfeitures into premiums for sharp shooting- taking care to have the fourth day of Jul, perpetual; one of those days and, sir, you will relieve the militia from an intolerable burden, give them a perfect confidence in their strength and power, and make them, as I have always thought they were, the real bulwark of the liberties of their country. They fight for themselves, and not like mercenaries for pay ; they in a little time, a hundred or two hundred yards, would be sure of their object ; and riflemen need not be told of the vast certainty to which the use of the rifle may be brought. The havoc made at New Orleans, near the close of' the last war, leaves no doubt on this subject. I have been told of a case, of two rifle-men there, who shot at the same officer, and each claimed him- one said that lie shot to hit him under the left eye; the other that he shot at his head ; he was found to have been shot just under the left eye, and also in the head; so that he would have been killed by either. The immense carnage at New Orleans seals the truth of all I have said. I have been told, further, that, after the battle, a bet of a supper was made between the officers of two rifle corps from Georgia and Tennessee, of six shots aside, an hundred yards; that they shot at a paper on the mouth of a musket, that the Tennessceans shot their six balls into the musket, on which the Georgians gave up the bet. When the British took possession of Kent Island there were said to be three rifles in the hands of the militia of the Island, and though concealed to avoid their getting them, kept them in a constant state of caution, for fear of being taken off, and which they were anxious to buy. Besides, the economy in the supply of rifles is of great consequence ; the rifle barrels can be kept good for a long time ; can be rebored, and by constant use of oil in their patches, are not liable to rust - when muskets, with the greatest care, are liable to rust, and may be bent, and thereby destroyed. Sir, I have no doubt if our militia shall be thus armed and thus prepared, and their feats of sharp shooting published to the world, that all the Powers of Europe would not be able to press their officers to land on our Coasts; but, sir, if they shall, notwith- standing, have the hardihood, I have no doubt they will pay for their temerity. I ask that the resolution may lie on the table, that the subject thus broke, may he acted on at an early day, understandingly, and the liberties of this country be thus preserved till the last trump.
Without further debate the motion of Mr. WRIGHT, was ordered to lie on the table.
[end text]
Of course if you're not smart enough to find your own cites, you can just give up now and, as usual, I'll win again.
> BTW: You still have not answered my question. Again I ask. > Point out one, just one, of the original debates on the > second amendment where it was argued whether the individual > RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS even existed. State, federal or > otherwise. There is no such argument.
Just so you get this perfectly clear, Markie: why would anybody discuss personal RKBA in the Federal Convention, or the US Constitution ratification debates, or in the First Congress debates on the Bill of Rights, when we all know there was no personal RKBA under the militia amendment but only a collective RKBA? You're asking me to prove a negative?
I assumed you'd catch on one of these days but I think you really don't understand the absurdity of your question, or realize that the only answer to it is to tediously explain why it has no answer.
Is that the time-wasting response you wanted?
Search Eliot's Debates for "militia" - you'll get plenty of evidence direct from the Founders that the Second Amendment was conceived as a militia amendment, collective right of the people to keep up a militia, Congress proscribed from disarming the people's militia, not a universal militia because not all citizens or persons were capable of militia service.
Try just once in your life to think for yourself, okay Mark?
Leif speaking: The federal government began supplying arms and equipment to the militia of the several states even before the War of 1812. Here are two sections of an act passed in 1808 during the Jefferson administration:
"An Act making provision for arming and equipping the whole body of the Militia of the United States
"Be it enacted, That the annual sum of two hundred thousand dollars be, and the same hereby is, appropriated for the purpose of providing arms and military equipments for the whole body of the militia of the United States, either by purchase or manufacture, by and on account of the United States.
"Sec 3. And be it further enacted, That all arms procured in virtue of this act shall be transmitted to the several States composing the Union, and Territories thereof, to each State and Territory respectively, in proportion to the number of the effective militia in each State and Territory, and by each State and Territory to be distributed to the militia in such State and Territory, under such rules and regulations as shall be by law prescribed by the Legislature of each State and Territory.
"Approved, April 23, 1808"
(10th Congress, 1st Session, Annals of Congress, Appendix, p. 2860)
> >> Now it's time to dispense with the typical gunlobby > >> evasion of facts and tell everybody why your gunlobby > >> heroes concocted a racist attack against liberals and > >> centrists who support reasonable gun control.
> > You can not prove this. Nobody "concocted a racist attack > > against liberals and centrists who support reasonable gun > > control".
> The gunlobby did it.
This is not proof. You must prove that the so called gunlobby "concocted a racist attack against liberals and centrists who support reasonable gun control".
> > But we all know what your definition of > > "reasonable gun control" is.
> There you go again. You say reasonable gun control is no gun > control. I say reasonable gun control is some gun control.
> Your position is not reasonable. Mine is.
A states only right is not reasonable nor is it correct.
> >> > Again I ask. Point out > >> > one, just one, of the original debates on the second > >> > amendment where it was argued whether the individual > >> > RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS even existed. State, federal > >> > or otherwise. There is no such argument.
> >> How many times do I have to post it? As many times as you > >> can delete it, eh little gunlobby stooge?
> > You have not posted one of the original debates on the > > second amendment where it was argued whether the individual > > RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS even existed. State, federal or > > otherwise. There is no such argument.
> I've podted them, Krulick's posted them, Leif's posted them, > and you delete them.
> See Eliot's Debates. Search for "militia". Tons of of it. Do > your own homework, deleter.
The burden of proof is on you. You have not posted anything.
> >> Now explain how your racist misuse of the term Saturday > >> Night Special deserves anything besides condemnation.
> >> As a racist supporter yourself, you must have smiled at > >> the similarity of "Saturday Night Special" to "Saturday > >> Night Social", right Markwad? And you knew by assigning > >> fake racist origins to "Saturday Night Special" you'd sell > >> lots more of those cheap handguns to poor whites.
> > You can continue to cry racism all you want. It doesn't > > make it so. The race card is last ditch effort of losing > > argument.
> Not this time. You boys used racism to promote gun sales.
> >> BTW, you don't have any reliable sales statistics that > >> show either blacks or whites buy Saturday Night Specials > >> with greater frequency, do you? It's probably lower > >> income people rather than any particular racial group that > >> buys less expensive guns more often, right? And they'll > >> be more likely to buy USED guns, which is exactly what the > >> gun industry fears most.
> > I don't remember claiming blacks or whites bought Saturday > > Night Specials with greater frequency. Where did you get > > that? I did point out that the origins of gun control are > > racist.
> The false description of gun control laws that regulate > Saturday Night Specials as racist, and the name Saturday Night > Special as having racist origins, is racist; it uses racism as > a marketing ploy. For that you must confess in public and stop > using racist marketing campaigns.
> Starting tomorrow.
The burden of proof of this is on you. Please show your evidence of what you claim.
> >> So they get racist on the sales pitch. They play white > >> fears off black stereotypes; black fears off white > >> stereotypes.
> >> Sell more new cheap handguns.
> > You have evidence of this?
> > BTW: You still have not answered my question. Again I ask. > > Point out one, just one, of the original debates on the > > second amendment where it was argued whether the individual > > RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS even existed. State, federal or > > otherwise. There is no such argument.
> Check out all the page headings that have something to do with > the militia. That's what I did.
> Search Google Groups for our previous posts, I don't intend to > keep reposting text until it's drained of meaning. If you > insist on remaining ignorant to protect your position with the > gunlobby, go right ahead. But you'll have nothing to bitch > about when we post facts that prove you wrong.
> Like, recently I said the government began arming the militia > soon after the War of 1812, and one of your gunloons challenged > my statement. I ignored the challenge because I knew my > statement was true, but tonoght I just happened on this, > browsing Annals of Congress subject headers:
> [begin text]
> Annals of Congress, House of Representatives, 17th Congress, > 2nd Session Pages 433 & 434 December 20, 1822
> ARMING MILITIA WITH RIFLES.
> Mr. WRIGHT submitted the following
> Resolved, That the Committee on the Militia be instructed > to inquire into the expediency of arming the militia with > rifles, except those residing in cities, towns, and > villages, and report thereon by bill or otherwise.
> In offering this resolution, Mr. WRIGHT said he had > Submitted it in confidence of the attention of the House to > the subject, it being one of the first importance, the > protection of the liberties of the people, and from his own > experience in the use of fire arms, having taken a hand in > two wars, he hoped for the attention of the House to his > remarks. The militia in the country, said Mr. W., in their > dispersed situation, can never be taught the use of the > musket, and manmuvres necessary to fit them to contend with > a regular foreign army. The labor they undergo in their > periodical meetings, their marchings and counter-marches ; > their lugging their rusty muskets five or six miles, or, > per-adventure, the using sticks for firelocks, is truly > painful to a spectator skilled in arms, I know vastly > distressing to the country militia. They, sir, have such > disgust to this business, and such antipathy to the duties > of militiamen, have so little confidence in their fitness to > contend with a regular army, that they consider themselves > as sacrifices to the liberties of their country, when thus > compelled to fight. But, sir, arm the country militia with > rifles, and possess each of them with a rifle, compel them > to meet as often as may be thought necessary, and distribute > the fines and forfeitures into premiums for sharp shooting- > taking care to have the fourth day of Jul, perpetual; one of > those days and, sir, you will relieve the militia from an > intolerable burden, give them a perfect confidence in their > strength and power, and make them, as I have always thought > they were, the real bulwark of the liberties of their > country. They fight for themselves, and not like mercenaries > for pay ; they in a little time, a hundred or two hundred > yards, would be sure of their object ; and riflemen need not > be told of the vast certainty to which the use of the rifle > may be brought. The havoc made at New Orleans, near the > close of' the last war, leaves no doubt on this subject. I > have been told of a case, of two rifle-men there, who shot > at the same officer, and each claimed him- one said that lie > shot to hit him under the left eye; the other that he shot > at his head ; he was found to have been shot just under the > left eye, and also in the head; so that he would have been > killed by either. The immense carnage at New Orleans seals > the truth of all I have said. I have been told, further, > that, after the battle, a bet of a supper was made between > the officers of two rifle corps from Georgia and Tennessee, > of six shots aside, an hundred yards; that they shot at a > paper on the mouth of a musket, that the Tennessceans shot > their six balls into the musket, on which the Georgians gave > up the bet. When the British took possession of Kent Island > there were said to be three rifles in the hands of the > militia of the Island, and though concealed to avoid their > getting them, kept them in a constant state of caution, for > fear of being taken off, and which they were anxious to buy. > Besides, the economy in the supply of rifles is of great > consequence ; the rifle barrels can be kept good for a long > time ; can be rebored, and by constant use of oil in their > patches, are not liable to rust - when muskets, with the > greatest care, are liable to rust, and may be bent, and > thereby destroyed. Sir, I have no doubt if our militia shall > be thus armed and thus prepared, and their feats of sharp > shooting published to the world, that all the Powers of > Europe would not be able to press their officers to land on > our Coasts; but, sir, if they shall, notwith- standing, have > the hardihood, I have no doubt they will pay for their > temerity. I ask that the resolution may lie on the table, > that the subject thus broke, may he acted on at an early > day, understandingly, and the liberties of this country be > thus preserved till the last trump.
> Without further debate the motion of Mr. WRIGHT, was ordered > to lie on the table.
> > BTW: You still have not answered my question. Again I ask. > > Point out one, just one, of the original debates on the > > second amendment where it was argued whether the individual > > RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS even existed. State, federal or > > otherwise. There is no such argument.
> Just so you get this perfectly clear, Markie: why would > anybody discuss personal RKBA in the Federal Convention, or > the US Constitution ratification debates, or in the First > Congress debates on the Bill of Rights, when we all know > there was no personal RKBA under the militia amendment but > only a collective RKBA? You're asking me to prove a > negative?
> I assumed you'd catch on one of these days but I think you > really don't understand the absurdity of your question, or > realize that the only answer to it is to tediously explain > why it has no answer.
> Is that the time-wasting response you wanted?
> Search Eliot's Debates for "militia" - you'll get plenty of > evidence direct from the Founders that the Second Amendment > was conceived as a militia amendment, collective right of the > people to keep up a militia, Congress proscribed from > disarming the people's militia, not a universal militia > because not all citizens or persons were capable of militia > service.
> Try just once in your life to think for yourself, okay Mark?
I see several debates on arming the militias and the composition of militias. I see nothing in any of this that expressly discusses whether the individual RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS even existed. State, federal or otherwise. There is no such argument.
Again I ask. Point out one, just one, of the original debates on the second amendment where it was argued whether the individual RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS even existed. State, federal or otherwise. There is no such argument.
