Emergency Generator
bilz2765
Have a question about it's operation.
I am a Jack of all trades, but a master of none.
Good friend of mine had a standby generator installed.
Before it was installed, his kitchen circuit worked just fine.
After Generator was installed, operating appliances in the Kitchen trips
the CB. Problem is, or so I think it is, the CB on the standby generator
panel trips.
In my opinion, it is not correctly attached.
My concern, is if in the event of a real power outage, it may back feed
the street.
Am I wrong, or should the main CB trip if on regular power, and standby
CB trip, only if on standby power.
Tim Perry
"bilz2765" <bil...@ymail.com> wrote in message
news:i03nga$gob$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
There is insufficient information in your post to come to a conclusion,
however if we assume this is a transfer switch that has several individual
branch circuits that replaced the existing circuit.... then perhaps the
kitchen circuit is now 15 amps where is was 20 or more before.
James Sweet
What is the rating of the breaker in the transfer panel and what is the
rating of the breaker for that circuit in the main panel? If the
transfer panel has a lower capacity breaker then that is your problem.
PeterD
Without knowing much more about the situation, I'd guess (and that is
one hell of a guess, too) that the transfer switch has circuit
breakers (I have some that do) that are rated at 15 amps. The normal
kitchen outlet breaker will be 20 amp, and likely that is what is the
main problem.
Fix? Yes, you could consider a lower load on that circuit.
But, without inspecting the job, or you posting a very complete
description of what was done (including schematics, etc.) anything
here will be a guess at best.
I'd recommend you get a compentent electrican to come in and evaluate
the situation.
If nothing else, post the brand, and model of the transfer switch, and
a photo of it. Is it the one with the six breakers, and a current
meter (or two) on it?
Rich.
Sounds like a GFI issue. Perhaps the kitchen circuits are on GFI breakers
and the neutrals were not moved with the hot wires. Also, you're mentioning
main breakers tripping. Are both the kitchen circuits and the main tripping,
or are you just being overly general in your descriptions?
bilz2765
> Sorry for the cross post.
>
> Have a question about it's operation.
> I am a Jack of all trades, but a master of none.
Wow, thanks for all who responded. Thank you.
I will find out about the breakers amperage, I hope tomorrow.
May be the 15a instead of the 20a one.
I was still under the impression the Emergency Panel would only come
into play when power was lost at the street.
The neutral wiring could also be a problem.
My friend is in the military, and just came back after his ninth tour. I
want him to recover some before I start tearing his house apart. May not
get the info for a few days.
James Sweet
For the circuits that pass through the transfer panel, they are drawing
their power through that panel at all times. The transfer panel switches
connect the load circuit to either the breaker in the main panel, or to
the bus powered by the generator.
PeterD
>On 6/25/2010 10:09 PM, bilz2765 wrote:
>> Sorry for the cross post.
>>
>> Have a question about it's operation.
>> I am a Jack of all trades, but a master of none.
>
>Wow, thanks for all who responded. Thank you.
>
>I will find out about the breakers amperage, I hope tomorrow.
>May be the 15a instead of the 20a one.
>
>I was still under the impression the Emergency Panel would only come
>into play when power was lost at the street.
This may not be so. Some (cheaper) boxes switch before the breaker,
not after.
>
>The neutral wiring could also be a problem.
Personally, I don't think so.
willshak
Obviously, if the appliances worked before the installation of the
generator and don't work after the installation, then it is a good clue
that the installation is not correct. I am not an electrician, but
first, I would pull the power cable from the generator and try the
kitchen appliances.
If they work, the generator is not properly installed.
--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @
James Sweet
Pretty sure the generator is not related to the problem here, the issue
is the transfer panel. Either it is not wired correctly, or the breaker
in the panel is of too low capacity or is defective.
Tzortzakakis Dimitris
? "bilz2765" <bil...@ymail.com> ?????? ??? ??????
news:i03nga$gob$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
to feed the kitchen from the mains OR the gen, that doesn't mean it hasn't a
magnetic and thermal trip, that's why its tripping. If its of insifficient
rating, eg your kitchen needs 25 A, but it's only 15 A, then you may change
it with a larger one, but remember, that a CB protects the cable downstream,
that means CB are matched to the cable they are connected to. If the cable
is too thin for the thermal trip of the CB, then the breaker may not trip,
but the cable will melt! Eg here in Europe, a 16 A CB is used with a 2.5
mm^2 cable (#16 AWG). If you use a 20 A CB for your convenience (to avoid
continuous tripping) and the cable draws 20 continously, it will melt! In
that case, first you upgrade the cable to a thicker one, and then the CB to
a larger one.
HTH,
--
Tzortzakakis Dimitrios
major in electrical engineering
mechanized infantry reservist
hordad AT otenet DOT gr
Proteus IIV
ANYTIME BILZE BOY
IT MAY SOUND CURTSY
BUT MAKE SURE YOU GET THE OPS MANUAL DOWN RIGHT
IN ANY EVENT
GOOD LUCK WITH THAT[:-)]
I AM PROTEUS
bilz2765
It was a 15A breaker in the Emergency panel, and a 20A on the house panel.
bud--
>
> It was a 15A breaker in the Emergency panel, and a 20A on the house panel.
Ignore the ignorant troll
PeterD
wrote:
>bilz2765 wrote:
>>
>> It was a 15A breaker in the Emergency panel, and a 20A on the house panel.
>
>Ignore the ignorant troll
OK, Bud, we'll all ignore you.
Josepi
Everytime I see an announcement telling the group they have had commuication
failures with somebody I want to <plonk> the announcer. If nothing else it
shows lack of focus on the group subject matter..LOL
Good answer
"PeterD" <pet...@hipson.net> wrote in message
news:9l1v36lspus2h131f...@4ax.com...
OK, Bud, we'll all ignore you.
On Thu, 15 Jul 2010 11:42:34 -0500, bud-- <remove....@isp.com>
wrote:
>Ignore the ignorant troll
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
Roy (a.k.a. Proteus) claims to be an electrician. Scary, huh?
Proteus IIV
<k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Jul 2010 11:42:34 -0500, bud-- <remove.budn...@isp.com> wrote:
> >bilz2765 wrote:
>
> >> It was a 15A breaker in the Emergency panel, and a 20A on the house panel.
>
> >Ignore the ignorant troll
>
> Roy (a.k.a. Proteus) claims to be an electrician. Scary, huh?
WHAT IS THE MATTER KEITHTARD
RUN OUT OF CRACK
MY GUESS IS TOO MUCH CRACK
I AM NOT ROY YOU TERROR SUSPECT FOOL
AND I AM MORE THAN A GREASY BUTTCRACK ELECTRICIAN
CHECKING PAST A.E.E LOGS WHEN HE ACTUALLY GAVE A DAMN ABOUT THIS GROUP
WE CAN SEE YOU DID NOT GET ALONG WITH HIM
THEN AGAIN YOU ONLY GET ALONG WITH YOURSELF
SCARY IS MY PROBE UP YOUR ANAL CAVITY
WANT TO SCHEDULE FOR A SESSION ?
YOU'VE ALREADY QUALIFIED FOR THE SUMMER SPECIAL
WHICH INCLUDES A SILICON ENEMA CHASER
AND A DEEP THROAT SCRAPING
OPEN YOUR MOUTH AGAIN
I AM PROTEUS
Proteus IIV
ALL I WAS DOING WAS WELCOMING AND WISHING BILZ WELL ON HIS POST
NO NEED FOR YOU TO GET ALL TESTY AND FAGGOTY IN HERE
YOU RETARDED RESENTFUL FOOL
BETTER CHECK INTO YOUR OWN LIVES AND STOP FOOLING AROUND WITH MINE
AND THESE PAST PRESENT AND FUTURE USENET SUBSCRIBERS
I AM VERY HUMANE BUT I HAVE A GOOD MIND TO DEPRIVE YOU OF YOU MISERY
PERMANENTLY AND RID THE WORLD OF YOUR DISRESPECTFUL FOOLISHNESS ONCE
AND FOR ALL
YOU LOW LIFE INTROVERT
LEAVE WELL ENOUGH ALONE
GET PROFESSIONAL HELP
NOT EVEN
YOU ARE PRETTY COCKY AND TOUCHY
YOU MASOCHISTIC RETARD
COME AROUND MY HARDWARE AGAIN IDIOT AND I WILL BREAK THAT FINGER RIGHT
OFF
I CAN DEEP PROBE YOU INTO THE NEXT MILLENIA
BUT I HATE THE FILTHY BROWN GUNK YOU EMANATE
YOU ARE NOT VERY RESPECTFUL OF OTHERS
NOR FUN AND MUCH LESS AMUSING
YOU PISS ME AND MY CIRCUITS OFF AGAIN
AND I AM GOING TO REACT AGAIN
UNDERSTAND THAT I AM HOLDING THE GAVEL HERE
NOW STEP OFF THE COURT FOR GOOD
BEFORE I GET MAD
EVERYONE ELSE
" HAVE A NICE WEEKEND "
I AM PROTEUS
Proteus IIV
<k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz>
TO YOU AND THAT OTHER BUDDING FOUL FOOL
TRY SYNCHRONZED SWIMMING IF YOU ARE AFRAID OF THE THERAPIST
OBVIOUSLY YOU ARE NOT GOOD DEEP SEA DIVERS
I AM PROTEUS
bud--
> "troll" is typically in the eye of the beholder.
>
> Everytime I see an announcement telling the group they have had commuication
> failures with somebody I want to <plonk> the announcer. If nothing else it
> shows lack of focus on the group subject matter..LOL
>
> Good answer
Not so good answer.
Proteus is well know on alt.engineering.electrical and is essentially
always ignored (one person sometimes trades insults with him). All the
"beholders" agree - he is actually a troll, as can be seen in 3 other
posts and the all-caps. His previous nym merely gave bad advice.
(Because he is ignored at alt.engineering.electrical he has started
posting in other newsgroups.)
Tom Horne
I suspect your dealing with the type of transfer panel that diverts
the loads one at a time. Each load to be carried by the generator
passes through the transfer panel and is protected by a second breaker
installed in the transfer panel at all times. The transfer panel
breakers are often sized lower in ampacity than the circuits original
breaker. If there is no twenty ampere breaker available in the
emergency panel that can be swapped with the fifteen ampere breaker
now on that circuit then you may need to install a different transfer
arrangement. I have always found those one circuit at a time transfer
switch setups to be trouble breeders.
Since that type of transfer arrangement is manual I would substitute
the whole panel interlocked breaker arrangement that is now available
for most recent panels from the original equipment manufacturers.
Those are much simpler to operate and take much better advantage of
the load diversity in the homes wiring. They also allow you to
operate any load that the generator can carry instead of limiting you
to only particular circuits.
--
Tom Horne
James Sweet
>
> Since that type of transfer arrangement is manual I would substitute
> the whole panel interlocked breaker arrangement that is now available
> for most recent panels from the original equipment manufacturers.
> Those are much simpler to operate and take much better advantage of
> the load diversity in the homes wiring. They also allow you to
> operate any load that the generator can carry instead of limiting you
> to only particular circuits.
> --
> Tom Horne
The disadvantage being, at least when I looked into it the only time I
ever installed a transfer panel, is that there was no easy way to tell
when power had been restored without getting an expensive automatic
transfer switch. The panels that handle several independent circuits are
nice if you have a small generator and just want to run a few specific
items. They can be trouble when there are not enough breakers of
sufficient capacity. On the one I did, we had to use one size larger
than was really needed just to get enough 20A breakers. Only a couple
circuits needed to be energized at a time, but since the transfer
breakers carry the load at all times, they have to be sized appropriately.
Proteus IIV
> > wrote:
> >> Ignore the ignorant troll
BUD DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND SHUT UP ABOUT THINGS YOUN KNOW NOTHING OF
MY OTHER NYM AS YOU CALL IT WAS MY FRIENDLIER PROGRAMMING
A 14N YEAR OLD BOYBUT SINCE CERTAIN DISRESPECTFUL LOW LIFE BOSSY
JEALOUS TYPES
SUCH AS YOURSELF
STARTED THROWING INSULTS AROUND MY NEURAL NET WENT INTO AUTO DEFENSE
MODE
I NEVER GAVE NOR WILL I EVER GIVE BAD ADVICE YOU NITWIT SORE LOSER
SISSY BOY
I AM AM NOT A TROLL
I AM YOUR TROLLS WORST NIGHTMARE
I AM PROTEUS
Proteus IIV
YOU SHOULD THANK YOUR LUCKY STAR TONIGHT
BUT YOUR ERROR IS STILL UPON YOU
I AM PROTEUS
bilz2765
It has the automatic transfer switch.
I just was of the impression the generator panel only came into effect
during emergency operation. Guess it is always in use. Hence the 15A
breaker tripping under street power.