Cat.5 Tornado-Proof houses
George Orwell
for tornado-proof houses. I think it can be done and done cost affordably.
The grain elevator survived. It is a cylinderical concrete structure.
That is a clue.
The specs for this new type dwelling is Cat.5 and grapefruit size hail
protection level 100% with only "paint damage" allowable. In fair weather,
it should provide attractive, comfortable and economical living for a
family of six. Larger and smaller models would follow.
A cylinder topped with a dome like a nuclear reactor containment might
work. Another approach is a three sided pyramidal structure, made of
reinforced concrete. A sphere on a low pedestal is another design.
Such a building design could be tested in a wind tunnel after being
mathematically evaluated by structural engineers. It would be build on site
in huge inverted molds, using factory-preformed steel reinforcement and
poured. Then, the cured structure would be hoisted by crane and bolted to
a well-anchored slab foundation. Windows would be equipped with steel
storm shutters and the garage would be built into the North side with 3
block walls forming the auto storage space. A steel roll-up door would
protect the garage opening.
The object is to build for not exceeding a $5 per sq. ft. premium. Lowered
insurance costs and a government stipend of about $1,000 a year to owners
willing to open up their dwelling to neighors for shelter in tornado
attacks would substidize the additional cost of acquisition.
The government could be convinced to underwrite the R & D of this project
to a 50% level. We need a small team of about 20 to do this: architect,
engineer, lobbyist, patent attorney, contractors, real estate developers
and so forth. The project should begin at Greensburg.
Ken S. Tucker
That has been discussed before, but it's interesting.
A 60 mph wind produces pressure of ~ 10#/sq. stick
your hand out of a car to feel it.
The max tornado wind speeds are ~ 300mph, which
is 5x greater. However pressure increases with the
square of the velocity so it'll be 25x10#/sq. ft.
The smallest practical home is ~ 20x20, with 200 sq. ft
per side, so it would need to withstand 200x250 # of
force = 50,000# = 25 tons.
I think your cylindrical house idea is practical,
either concrete or corrogated steel. Also quite
fire & earthquake & flood & burglar proof, so it
would be a good place to keep valuables and
essentials.
>From that you could spoke off some cheap wings
that would blow away, but are cheap to replace.
Ken
RicodJour
>
> I think your cylindrical house idea is practical,
> either concrete or corrogated steel. Also quite
> fire & earthquake & flood & burglar proof, so it
> would be a good place to keep valuables and
> essentials.
And it keeps people from pissing in the corners. ;)
R
Bob Morrison
> That has been discussed before, but it's interesting.
> A 60 mph wind produces pressure of ~ 10#/sq. stick
> your hand out of a car to feel it.
>
> The max tornado wind speeds are ~ 300mph, which
> is 5x greater. However pressure increases with the
> square of the velocity so it'll be 25x10#/sq. ft.
>
> The smallest practical home is ~ 20x20, with 200 sq. ft
> per side, so it would need to withstand 200x250 # of
> force = 50,000# = 25 tons.
>
Continuing Ken's example:
Assuming 9-foot walls, that 50,000 pounds has an overturning moment of
50,000 x 4.5 feet = 225,000 pound-ft. It will require a pretty hefty
footing to resist that kind of overturing force.
--
Bob Morrison, PE, SE
R L Morrison Engineering Co
Structural & Civil Engineering
Poulsbo WA
bob at rlmorrisonengr dot com
Don
> In a previous post Ken S. Tucker wrote...
>> That has been discussed before, but it's interesting.
>> A 60 mph wind produces pressure of ~ 10#/sq. stick
>> your hand out of a car to feel it.
>>
>> The max tornado wind speeds are ~ 300mph, which
>> is 5x greater. However pressure increases with the
>> square of the velocity so it'll be 25x10#/sq. ft.
>>
>> The smallest practical home is ~ 20x20, with 200 sq. ft
>> per side, so it would need to withstand 200x250 # of
>> force = 50,000# = 25 tons.
>>
>
> Continuing Ken's example:
>
> Assuming 9-foot walls, that 50,000 pounds has an overturning moment of
> 50,000 x 4.5 feet = 225,000 pound-ft. It will require a pretty hefty
> footing to resist that kind of overturing force.
Driven concrete pilings 30' long.
Ken S. Tucker
> In a previous post Ken S. Tucker wrote...
>
> > That has been discussed before, but it's interesting.
> > A 60 mph wind produces pressure of ~ 10#/sq. stick
> > your hand out of a car to feel it.
>
> > The max tornado wind speeds are ~ 300mph, which
> > is 5x greater. However pressure increases with the
> > square of the velocity so it'll be 25x10#/sq. ft.
>
> > The smallest practical home is ~ 20x20, with 200 sq. ft
> > per side, so it would need to withstand 200x250 # of
> > force = 50,000# = 25 tons.
>
> Continuing Ken's example:
>
> Assuming 9-foot walls, that 50,000 pounds has an overturning moment of
> 50,000 x 4.5 feet = 225,000 pound-ft. It will require a pretty hefty
> footing to resist that kind of overturing force.
Yes, Torque, I'd imagine a 1/2 ass basement with some
serious threaded rod, anchored and extended from the
foundation to connect to the walls, would provide a safe
room in an F-5 (300 mph) wind.
If after a big F-5, you have an essential core of
operations in a 16' dia or 20' dia, it really is not
a big problem .
Why I lean toward G. Orewell's ideas is because
the town (Greensburg) would have survived, and
would be operational the next day.
I can engineer that.
Ken
PS: Say Bob, what about that bridge?
Don
> PS: Say Bob, what about that bridge?
Speaking of bridges, looks like building or rebuilding one is in my future.
We have a small one, about 12-14 foot long going from the gravel walkway to
the front porch and one side has partially collapsed.
Because of how its built I can't see what exactly the problem is other then
one of the longitudal stringers has broken lengthwise and the end has broken
loose from the abuttment.
I'm gonna have to yank some of the deck boards so I can see inside.
I already warned my wife that I just wanna yank the whole thing and build an
all new and improved version - Don style.
She's skeptically apprehensive. LOL
PS: I used to build bridges in the army, combat engineers (D Co. 54th Engr
Bn - Wildflecken, Ger.) and then blow em up. heh
TheRebarGuy
>
> Assuming 9-foot walls, that 50,000 pounds has an overturning moment of
> 50,000 x 4.5 feet = 225,000 pound-ft. It will require a pretty hefty
> footing to resist that kind of overturing force.
>
>
> --
> Bob Morrison, PE, SE
> R L Morrison Engineering Co
> Structural & Civil Engineering
> Poulsbo WA
> bob at rlmorrisonengr dot com
rebar, lots and lots of rebar.
And since I get paid by the ton, make it out of the big stuff. None of this
#3, #4 and #5 bar.
Ken S. Tucker
Would a load of fill do? or is the bridge the
best thing?
Ken
Don
"Ken S. Tucker" <dyna...@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
news:1178593210....@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
My wife likes her bridge.
Scott Cox
examples of Florida built geodesic domes surviving hurricanes while
neighboring stick-framed houses vanished.
"George Orwell" <nob...@mixmaster.it> wrote in message
news:b24096cbc51a783c...@mixmaster.it...
RicodJour
Well, as opposed to sipping dinner through a straw, I guess the bridge
work is a good thing. ;)
You should check out the US military manuals for rigging and bridge
building. You probably read them decades ago, but you'll get a lot
more out of them now, and particularly with a "play" project in the
offing.
R
Don
My brand new house *survived* Charley and 2 other hurricanes but it cost
about $9k.
"Scott Cox" <no...@nohow.com> wrote in message
news:NQ_%h.12866$3P3....@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Don
"RicodJour" <rico...@worldemail.com> wrote in message
news:1178631538.5...@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On May 8, 6:27 am, "Don" <one-if-by-l...@concord.com> wrote:
>>
>> My wife likes her bridge.
>
> Well, as opposed to sipping dinner through a straw, I guess the bridge
> work is a good thing. ;)
LOL, took me a second.
> You should check out the US military manuals for rigging and bridge
> building. You probably read them decades ago, but you'll get a lot
> more out of them now, and particularly with a "play" project in the
> offing.
This isn't very complex.
In fact, the most difficult part is convincing my wife I need to yank the
old one out completely.
Then she'll have to walk all the way to the otherside of the house to get
out, where we have a set of stairs down to ground level.
This current bridge connects to the main house on a 45 degree angle and I've
never liked that.
I'm thinking about coming up with a whole nuther design.
The current one doesn't have a railing.
So on the new one I'd like it to come straight out from the side of the
front porch and to have a railing, and extended posts up to 9' high or so
and then arbor rafters and trellis work on top of that.
I bought my wife some grape vines recently so I think they'd be cool all
over something like that.
Maybe some ivy too.
RicodJour
> "RicodJour" <ricodj...@worldemail.com> wrote in message
Oh, sure. Ivy - the architect's eraser. Sheesh. Maybe a nice
gingham dust ruffle to hide the underside of the bridge...?
Grow some fuzzy ones, man! She's boss of the decorating, you're the
structure king. There's no input from the distaff side. A nice cable-
stayed bridge, or better yet, a bridge that's only connected on one
side and is entirely cantilevered. Possibly carbon fiber. Then
invite the landscape architect over again. Ask him what Wright would
have thought...
R
Bob Morrison
>
Too damn busy to work on it!
I'm cranking out the structurals for about 3-4 houses a month now, plus I
just finished (2) 12,000 sq. ft tilt up concrete warehouses.
I seem to be doing a lot of beach access stairs now too. Hood Canal where
I live has a lot of "high-bank" waterfront. This requires 30-40 foot high
stair towers to access the beach.
--
Bob Morrison, PE, SE
RicodJour
> In a previous post Ken S. Tucker wrote...
>
> > PS: Say Bob, what about that bridge?
>
> Too damn busy to work on it!
>
> I'm cranking out the structurals for about 3-4 houses a month now, plus I
> just finished (2) 12,000 sq. ft tilt up concrete warehouses.
Is the 12KSF before or after it's tilted up? ;)
> I seem to be doing a lot of beach access stairs now too. Hood Canal where
> I live has a lot of "high-bank" waterfront. This requires 30-40 foot high
> stair towers to access the beach.
I'm in a good mood, so I'm going to give you an invention that will
require you to hire many minions to handle all of the work, and force
you to buy an island to hide from the papparazzi. I am sorry if the
gorgeous gal groupies' groping creates marital stress, but I can only
do so much.
Nano-gabions. Micro-structures - cages - that hold sand the same way
that full size gabions hold riprap. You're stairs would appear to be
made simply of sand that refused to move and held the configuration.
The ultimate in green building. Extrapolate the technology to
foundations, entire buildings, furniture, etc. Hell, I know a few
people that could be replaced by the technology with no apparent
difference.
I'm in for 15% of the gross earnings.
R
Bob Morrison
> Is the 12KSF before or after it's tilted up? ;)
12,000 sf of floor area with panel height = 32 feet. Designed to allow a
partial or full second floor as a tenant improvement.
>
> > I seem to be doing a lot of beach access stairs now too. Hood Canal where
> > I live has a lot of "high-bank" waterfront. This requires 30-40 foot high
> > stair towers to access the beach.
>
> I'm in a good mood, so I'm going to give you an invention that will
> require you to hire many minions to handle all of the work, and force
> you to buy an island to hide from the papparazzi. I am sorry if the
> gorgeous gal groupies' groping creates marital stress, but I can only
> do so much.
>
> Nano-gabions. Micro-structures - cages - that hold sand the same way
> that full size gabions hold riprap. You're stairs would appear to be
> made simply of sand that refused to move and held the configuration.
> The ultimate in green building. Extrapolate the technology to
> foundations, entire buildings, furniture, etc. Hell, I know a few
> people that could be replaced by the technology with no apparent
> difference.
>
> I'm in for 15% of the gross earnings.
>
Not a bad idea except in this case using a mini-gabion would require
covering a portion of the beach with sand. This is of course an
environmental no-no.
Ken S. Tucker
> "RicodJour" <ricodj...@worldemail.com> wrote in message
How about snow, would you need to shovel it
or would it be covered?
What would be the maximum load?
Ken
Don
HA!
Don
Maximum?
Hmmm....well, the current one held quite a bit when we were moving in.
I guess no more than 8 people at a time would ever be on it and thats
stretching it.
Like I said its only about 12-14' long.
Its about 4' wide and it has 3 evenly spaced 2x12's running the full length.
It bounces a little.
The one I build won't bounce.
Snow isn't an issue, couple scoops with the shovel and its done.
Don
> Nano-gabions. Micro-structures - cages - that hold sand the same way
> that full size gabions hold riprap. You're stairs would appear to be
> made simply of sand that refused to move and held the configuration.
> The ultimate in green building. Extrapolate the technology to
> foundations, entire buildings, furniture, etc. Hell, I know a few
> people that could be replaced by the technology with no apparent
> difference.
Say that again?
In english this time.....
Ken S. Tucker
> "Ken S. Tucker" <dynam...@vianet.on.ca> wrote in messagenews:1178644028.6...@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
With a railing in the way? Ok, just thought I'd
remind ya of the time when you will have 3' of
snow :-).
Ken
Don
I'd keep the railing 4" above the floor.
Ken S. Tucker
> "Ken S. Tucker" <dynam...@vianet.on.ca> wrote in messagenews:1178650393.7...@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
Don trust me on this one. You should go
a covered bridge, all frilly n' tresselly on the
sides that livens up in the spring with that
fine scent of spring flowers gently flowing
from a light spring breeze twisting about
out of your misty forests.
The gay guys know what turns the wife on,
((Weird how that works)) so she throws herself
on her back and....
So you have to think 1/2 gay, your fine
entrance is about her, not you.
All the while, you're building that fine entrance
way, while thinking girls, you can think no snow
shovelling too.
Pink flowers
Ken
Don
> Don trust me on this one. You should go
> a covered bridge,
Less than a mile from me, due east:
http://tinyurl.com/36xpga
BTW: Just a few mins ago my wife was putting pressure on me to get moving on
the rear porch deal.
Here's the thing, I can't find anybody around here that handles aluminum
extrusions for the screened enclosure part.
This is sort of unbelieveable.
Down in FL I'd say at least 99% of the homes have a screened porch but
around here almost NOBODY has one. WTF????
Its nice outside right now but the flys and other bugs can get rather
bothersome.
In fact an hour ago a horsefly nailed me on my leg, at the cost of his life.
eds
"Don" <one-if-...@concord.com> wrote in message
news:f1qps...@news5.newsguy.com...
wood.
EDS
Don
"eds" <sno...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:4YidnXk46P3pl9zb...@comcast.com...
I may have to do that.
I helped a friend do it that way on his house about 20 years ago so I'm
familiar with what it takes.
But because of maintenance issues (I don't wanna paint it now or in the
future) I'd prefer aluminum.
aaron
> in huge inverted molds,
>
huge inverted molds sound impractical
perhaps consider the old inflatable dome form? see:
http://www.domtec.com/process.html
can't beat a dome structurally. if FRC concrete isn't strong enough
(cheap enough to make strong...) it might be cheap to get structural
steel curved in large quantity (all of it would be the radius of the
dome) to make a steel support frame that could be installed after
concreting.
it would probably be easy to chainsaw out openings for doors and windows
as necessary.
I am probably under-qualified to give structural advice for the project
(no license) but i would be interested to see where it goes.
Don
At some point a cost/value ratio must be dealt with.
That is, it just ain't worth it to build under some circumstances.
So unless this dome concept can be mass produced under factory setting, in
pieces and then assembled on-site, it is far too expensive for many people.
(large parabolic wedges with internal bolting flanges)
Then there's the aesthetic value, face it, a dome itself is rather blah and
seriously non-traditional, not that there's anything wrong with that.
As a 40 year resident of SW FL, and a home designer there for 35 years, and
more recently a survivor of 3 hurricanes in a row, it was a mere 10 years
ago I predicted here and elsewhere that the building officials will have
there way finally and all FL residents will live in reinforced concrete
domes designed to withstand 300 mph sustained wind velocity AND 10 foot
tidal surges.
mhuett
more practical. What if the buildings were built to appear to be
underground. Clusters of multi-family housing communities, that are
half buried in the earth. What is cut could be used as fill over the
top of the homes, creating both a beautiful roof garden and a thermal
mass barrier to help with energy consumption. Perhaps then the tornado
would skim across the top of the homes leaving them unharmed.
Thoughts?
eds
"mhuett" <mhu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1178721680.3...@e51g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
problem enough, a flooded house even worse.
EDS
nicks...@ece.villanova.edu
>"mhuett" <mhu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> The dome idea is interesting. The concrete reinforced walls is much
>> more practical. What if the buildings were built to appear to be
>> underground. Clusters of multi-family housing communities, that are
>> half buried in the earth. What is cut could be used as fill over the
>> top of the homes, creating both a beautiful roof garden and a thermal
>> mass barrier to help with energy consumption. Perhaps then the tornado
>> would skim across the top of the homes leaving them unharmed.
>> Thoughts?
>>
>Couldn't use them on the coast or near flood plains. A flooded basement is
>problem enough, a flooded house even worse.
No problem. They are very strong and waterproof. Some are used as water
tanks. At one point someone asked if he could build one 60' underground.
"No problem" for a Monolithic Dome...
Nick
Ken S. Tucker
> "Ken S. Tucker"> wrote
>
> > Don trust me on this one. You should go
> > a covered bridge,
>
> Less than a mile from me, due east:http://tinyurl.com/36xpga
Nice!
> BTW: Just a few mins ago my wife was putting pressure on me to get moving on
> the rear porch deal.
> Here's the thing, I can't find anybody around here that handles aluminum
> extrusions for the screened enclosure part.
> This is sort of unbelieveable.
> Down in FL I'd say at least 99% of the homes have a screened porch but
> around here almost NOBODY has one. WTF????
> Its nice outside right now but the flys and other bugs can get rather
> bothersome.
> In fact an hour ago a horsefly nailed me on my leg, at the cost of his life.
Well ship it up and DIY it.
Personally I avoid screens that are in front of
view windows, so I put screened transom vents
above the picture windows, they work really well.
We're considering a Gazebo, I like the idea of
a cozy octagon 4' per side, with a habachi-fundue
TV table in the middle, we enjoyed watching TV
outside, just a cheapo B&W.
Ken
Ken S. Tucker
In news articles, people who have been hit hard
are hurt most by losing precious belongings,
photo's...losing a bedroom, that's got replaceable
junk, is like who gives a rat's ass.
What's needed is a minimal "core structure", that
keeps you operational while you rebuild.
Ken
Don
> The dome idea is interesting. The concrete reinforced walls is much
> more practical. What if the buildings were built to appear to be
> underground.
Have you ever noticed that hurricanes assimilate in areas that are barely
above sea level?
Where I lived in SW FL you could dig a hole 2' deep and in 1/2 an hour it
was full of water.
So if you build underground you better make it waterproof and ya know what?
Big containers full of air have a tendency to float.
Thats right, in FL, if you drain your swimming pool you run the risk of it
popping right up out of the ground.
Florida - Its like a whole nuther country........
Don
<nicks...@ece.villanova.edu> wrote in message
news:f1sq2i$3...@acadia.ece.villanova.edu...
Money makes all things possible.
I designed the only Wafflehouse in the country that is waterproof to a depth
of 10' and guaranteed to never float no matter how high the tide.
(all the windows were provided by the company that glassed SeaWorld. Its on
Fort Myers Beach.
Don
Those are called *safe rooms* and are quite popular right after a hurricane
strike.
Don
You create an idyllic scene like this:
> We're considering a Gazebo, I like the idea of
> a cozy octagon 4' per side, with a habachi-fundue
Then you up and ruin it with this:
> TV table in the middle, we enjoyed watching TV
> outside, just a cheapo B&W.
TV???
With a nature show on all around you 24/7????
I don't get it!
Bob Morrison
> No problem. They are very strong and waterproof. Some are used as water
> tanks. At one point someone asked if he could build one 60' underground.
> "No problem" for a Monolithic Dome...
>
That's all fine if you want to live in a water tank.
aaron
>>>>> The dome idea is interesting. The concrete reinforced walls is much
>>>>> more practical. What if the buildings were built to appear to be
>>>>> underground. Clusters of multi-family housing communities, that are
>>>>> half buried in the earth. What is cut could be used as fill over the
>>>>> top of the homes, creating both a beautiful roof garden and a thermal
>>>>> mass barrier to help with energy consumption. Perhaps then the tornado
>>>>> would skim across the top of the homes leaving them unharmed.
>>>>> Thoughts?
with enough mass, it would be very hard for a tornado to pick you up,
but if a big wind goes over a dome thats buried, it would cause a large
negative pressure inside the structure, helping the dirt to cave it in.
this could easily be quantified, anticipated and designed for i guess.
people do like to have open spaces and windows in their houses though...
>>>> Couldn't use them on the coast or near flood plains. A flooded basement
>>>> is
>>>> problem enough, a flooded house even worse.
>>> No problem. They are very strong and waterproof. Some are used as water
>>> tanks. At one point someone asked if he could build one 60' underground.
>>> "No problem" for a Monolithic Dome...
>>> Nick
>> In news articles, people who have been hit hard
>> are hurt most by losing precious belongings,
>> photo's...losing a bedroom, that's got replaceable
>> junk, is like who gives a rat's ass.
>> What's needed is a minimal "core structure", that
>> keeps you operational while you rebuild.
>
> Those are called *safe rooms* and are quite popular right after a hurricane
> strike.
>
safe rooms are a relatively easy design problem. I believe the intent of
the project is to come up with something that does not need rebuilding.
IMHO its more important to spend the resources making public service
structures (fire stations, hospitals, etc) indestructible, but if
somebody wants a hurricane proof house and is willing to pay, and suffer
the architectural consequences... why not?
Don
> IMHO its more important to spend the resources making public service
> structures (fire stations, hospitals, etc) indestructible, but if somebody
> wants a hurricane proof house and is willing to pay, and suffer the
> architectural consequences... why not?
Yes, its far better to allow *other* people to spend your money than to
spend it yourself, right?
Ken S. Tucker
When I watch TV I rarely "stare" at the tube,
it's 90% listening, especially better shows,
poop shows I don't bother listening, so lookin'
about and feeling a breeze is nice on a warm
afternoon, while doodling.
Our house is 240' from the far lot line so we
figure we'll put up a screen tent as a gazebo,
then if we use it, we'll install something
permanent.
Ken
Don
> On May 9, 12:46 pm, "Don" <one-if-by-l...@concord.com> wrote:
>> "Ken S. Tucker"> wrote
>>
>> You create an idyllic scene like this:
>>
>> > We're considering a Gazebo, I like the idea of
>> > a cozy octagon 4' per side, with a habachi-fundue
>>
>> Then you up and ruin it with this:
>>
>> > TV table in the middle, we enjoyed watching TV
>> > outside, just a cheapo B&W.
>>
>> TV???
>> With a nature show on all around you 24/7????
>> I don't get it!
>
> When I watch TV I rarely "stare" at the tube,
> it's 90% listening,
Uh, whatever you say man. LOL
especially better shows,
> poop shows I don't bother listening, so lookin'
> about and feeling a breeze is nice on a warm
> afternoon, while doodling.
Attaboy.
Half of nature is appreciated with the eys, the rest is for the other
senses.
Unfortunately I only get to hear about half of whats going on.
> Our house is 240' from the far lot line so we
> figure we'll put up a screen tent as a gazebo,
> then if we use it, we'll install something
> permanent.
I've seen those 4 poster things, made out of aluminum posts, canvas/plastic
hip roof, roll down screens on all 4 sides.
Lotta people around here have them out in the back yard.
People also set em up when they're having a party outside.
Ken S. Tucker
> "Ken S. Tucker" <dynam...@vianet.on.ca> wrote in messagenews:1178823006.3...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Being camper's we've owned quite a few cook tents,
while building our 1st 8x12 office on this site we lived in
one, it would accumulate rain, PITA, crummy design.
I really love those hex and octogonal gazebo's, but my
skill and patience level match a square 8x8 enclosure.
Needs a new thread.
Ken
Bob Morrison
> I've seen those 4 poster things, made out of aluminum posts, canvas/plastic
> hip roof, roll down screens on all 4 sides.
> Lotta people around here have them out in the back yard.
> People also set em up when they're having a party outside.
>
Don't leave them up if the wind is going to blow. I made that mistake and
now have a pile of bent tubing. The "cloth" part is still okay, so maybe
I can make some electrical conduit sub for the bent tubes.
RicodJour
>
> When I watch TV I rarely "stare" at the tube,
> it's 90% listening, especially better shows,
> poop shows I don't bother listening, so lookin'
> about and feeling a breeze is nice on a warm
> afternoon, while doodling.
Holy crap! Did you just say you smoke but you don't inhale?!
You know, Ken, they've invented TVs that are 100% listening - they're
called R-A-D-I-O-S.
R
Ken S. Tucker
I figure TV is talk radio with an occasional picture.
Listened to an excellent show on Lake Toba a few
days ago on TV....
http://volcano.und.edu/vwdocs/volc_images/southeast_asia/indonesia/toba.html
Well if I weren't a guy that would cream jeans.
Ken
PS: I smoke a touch of tobaccy, I leave the THC
stuff to mature adults, you know.
Warm Worm
:D
Warm Worm
They do? Sounds like a scenerio there for a straight guy to enjoy as
well. :)
I've fancied a completely wired, winterized and heated all-glass
triple-glazed gazebo with cozy solarium-type furnishings, set upon the
end of a fairly long wharf, with its end being about the same size and
shape as the gazebo and set over a peaceful lake or river with about
15 feet of lake immediately below. Roughly in the middle of its floor
it might have a well-sealed high-quality trap door for direct access
to the water below when it was warm enough to swim or cold enough to
skate upon, and with room for a small boat to be moored to one of its
pilings during the ice-free seasons. Imagine enjoying a winter
blizzard from within, or a Jacuzzi inside that piped the water up from
the lake and heated it.
> ((Weird how that works)) so she throws herself
> on her back and....
> So you have to think 1/2 gay, your fine
> entrance is about her, not you.
>
> All the while, you're building that fine entrance
> way, while thinking girls, you can think no snow
> shovelling too.
> Pink flowers
> Ken
Strawberry buttercream hearts to you, Kennie-kins.
Warm Worm
(Dark-chocolate-covered and with a trace of kirsch.)
Ken S. Tucker
You have the Frazer river nearby, a pontoon
boat would be something close to your vision
as a start. We have used a water filled rubber
dingy as a tub, works good, warm after sitting
in the sun.
I've built pontoon boats, fun stuff, start small
and evolve upward.
I had something like what you described, but
it's stuck in one place...boring.
For transport you could go a 6'-8' wide boat,
then set up a gazebo, and deploy some
out-rigging pontoons for improved stability.
> > Pink flowers
> > Ken
>
> Strawberry buttercream hearts to you, Kennie-kins.
With that can I (we) bring my rubber ducky and
get a ride on your new boat???
Ken
Warm Worm
Ken S. Tucker wrote:
> On May 12, 3:01 am, Warm Worm <glome...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > On May 8, 3:58 pm, "Ken S. Tucker" <dynam...@vianet.on.ca> wrote:
>
> > I've fancied a completely wired, winterized and heated all-glass
> > triple-glazed gazebo with cozy solarium-type furnishings, set upon the
> > end of a fairly long wharf, with its end being about the same size and
> > shape as the gazebo and set over a peaceful lake or river with about
> > 15 feet of lake immediately below. Roughly in the middle of its floor
> > it might have a well-sealed high-quality trap door for direct access
> > to the water below when it was warm enough to swim or cold enough to
> > skate upon, and with room for a small boat to be moored to one of its
> > pilings during the ice-free seasons. Imagine enjoying a winter
> > blizzard from within, or a Jacuzzi inside that piped the water up from
> > the lake and heated it.
>
> You have the Frazer river nearby, a pontoon
> boat would be something close to your vision
> as a start.
The Fraser seems a little too busy, big and unintimate for my fantasy.
I was thinking more along the lines of an average or small-sized lake
or river in the sticks-- maybe a bit like the kind in Ontario's
Algonquin park or Quebec's Laurentians.
A pontoon boat would be fun, and it's an interesting idea to consider,
but I think it would be preferable in it's intended context.
> I had something like what you described, but it's stuck in one place...boring.
Maybe so, but to put it in a clearer perspective; think of it more as
an octagonally or hexagonally-shaped, 1-bedroom-appartment-sized
insulated-glass greenhouse on a slightly-larger equally-shaped wooden
platform at the end of a long and narrow wharf over the water of a
tranquil misty lake or a deep slow-moving river.
Inside it would be all the amenities, including such green things as a
compost toilet and light furniture, and a windmill on the rooftop,
like a weather-vane, for electricity.
To assuage boredom from such a stationary country-crib, your rubber-
dingy, rowboat or kayak would be waiting for you, moored directly
below, or you could fish off one side of the deck, play cards or
Scrabble indoors, surf the net, invite friends, throw a party, soak in
the hot-tub, etc..
> For transport you could go a 6'-8' wide boat,
> then set up a gazebo, and deploy some
> out-rigging pontoons for improved stability.
>
> > > Pink flowers
> > > Ken
> >
> > Strawberry buttercream hearts to you, Kennie-kins.
>
> With that can I (we) bring my rubber ducky and
> get a ride on your new boat???
And more! We could lie on our air-matresses on lazy summer days in the
middle of the lake.
We should create a project-based building-investment syndicate hereon
for just such a project.
Naturally, I could provide some of the financing, manual labour and
design.
Spencer W Hunter
Perhaps this is a smaller-scale version of what you have in mind:
http://www.hammacher.com/publish/10183.asp
<quote>
Aquatic Pod Suite
A Hammacher Schlemmer catalog exclusive, this is the world's only
aquatic pod suite that offers panoramic views simultaneously above and
below the surface of the water. Circular, with a 'flying saucer'
aspect, the suite rests directly on the water, the lower portion
submerged approximately five feet. Perfect as a getaway at a favorite
lagoon, beach, lake or river, the suite offers spectacular 300 views
of the environment.
[...]
Item 10183 .................. $91,100.00
SOLD OUT
Due to the popularity of this item, we are unexpectedly sold out.
<\quote>
Spencer Hunter, Tucson, AZ.
gopher://www.u.arizona.edu:80/hGET%20/%7Eshunter
aaron
> Yes, its far better to allow *other* people to spend your money than to
> spend it yourself, right?
>
the US is still self governed (in theory), so would it really be *other*
people? my opinion is based on the well being of society as a whole. one
working hospital or fire station should benefit more people after a
storm than one intact residence. maybe the individual in that one
surviving house might not think so... but the 100 families in destroyed
houses might need some assistance perhaps?
Señor Popcorn-Coconut
Hi Spencer,
While interesting, my idea is more along the lines of a stand-alone
"conservatory", a little like the following, but perhaps more
"high-end-contemporary" in style:
http://www.tanglewoodconservatories.com/conservatory/victorian.htm
http://www.tanglewoodconservatories.com/conservatory/beauty-inside.htm
Don
"aaron" <kr4...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:f2bem7$qpi$1...@aioe.org...
>>
>> Yes, its far better to allow *other* people to spend your money than to
>> spend it yourself, right?
>
> the US is still self governed (in theory), so would it really be *other*
> people?
Take every thing you own, including your bank account(s) and give it all to
*other people* right now.
Then give them your life, moron.
Don
> While interesting, my idea is more along the lines of a stand-alone
> "conservatory", a little like the following, but perhaps more
> "high-end-contemporary" in style:
>
> http://www.tanglewoodconservatories.com/conservatory/victorian.htm
> http://www.tanglewoodconservatories.com/conservatory/beauty-inside.htm
You could use a series of airtight 55 gal drums arranged in the proper
pattern as a floating platform to assemble the structure upon to avoid
having to install any sort of pilings to set the structure on.
If the body of water is relatively calm this would be the easiest way to do
it.
After it was built you could add ballast to make the structure *sink* to a
level that would put the whole thing down to water level so that the barrels
were not apparent (submerged).
nicks...@ece.villanova.edu
>"Señor Popcorn-Coconut"> wrote
>> While interesting, my idea is more along the lines of a stand-alone
>> "conservatory", a little like the following, but perhaps more
>> "high-end-contemporary" in style:
http://www.tanglewoodconservatories.com/conservatory/victorian.htm
http://www.tanglewoodconservatories.com/conservatory/beauty-inside.htm
These look expensive and cold at night.
>You could use a series of airtight 55 gal drums arranged in the proper
>pattern as a floating platform to assemble the structure upon to avoid
>having to install any sort of pilings to set the structure on.
>After it was built you could add ballast to make the structure *sink* to a
>level that would put the whole thing down to water level so that the barrels
>were not apparent (submerged).
Alternatively, we could make an icosahedron with some ballast stone in
the bottom point and a plastic bag above that to adjust bouyancy. One layer
of polycarbonate (eg GE HP92W Lexan) on each side of 7" waterproof glazing
cavities filled with soap bubble foam could provide US R30 insulation at
night and allow sun and views during the day, with no foam. With extra
care, this could become a submarine.
Nick
20 PI=4*ATN(1)'icosa sphere
30 PRINT" L Di Do H FW FL FA FC Af"
40 PRINT
50 DATA 4,8,9,10,12,18
60 FOR I=1 TO 6
70 READ L'strut length (feet)
80 ANG=36*PI/180
90 R0=L/(2*SIN(ANG))
100 D0=2*R0'outer diameter (feet)
110 D0R=INT(D0+.5)
120 D1=L/TAN(ANG)'inner diameter (feet)
130 D1R=INT(D1+.5)
140 FILMWIDTH=L*COS(30*PI/180)
150 FWR=INT(FILMWIDTH+.5)'film roll width (feet)
160 H=FILMWIDTH+SQR(L^2-R0^2)
170 HR=INT(H+.5)'height above ground (feet)
180 FILMLENGTH=10.5*L
190 FLR=INT(FILMLENGTH+.5)'film roll length (feet)
200 FILMAREA=FILMWIDTH*FILMLENGTH
210 FAR=INT(FILMAREA+.5)'film roll area (ft^2)
220 FCR=INT(FILMAREA/20+.5)'face area (ft^2)
230 AF=10*L/2*D1/2
240 AFR=INT(AF+.5)'floor area (ft^2)
250 PRINT L;"'";TAB(8);D1R;TAB(16);D0R;TAB(24);HR;TAB(32);FWR;
260 PRINT TAB(40);FLR;TAB(48);FAR;TAB(56);FCR;TAB(64);AFR
270 NEXT
L Di Do H FW FL FA FC Af
4 6 7 6 3 42 145 7 55
8 11 14 11 7 84 582 29 220
9 12 15 13 8 95 737 37 279
10 14 17 14 9 105 909 45 344
12 17 20 17 10 126 1309 65 495
18 25 31 25 16 189 2946 147 1115
Ken S. Tucker
Reality check: There are very strict rules about
building structures over water or even near
shoreline. (We put in a 4x8 3 sides screened a
few feet from the shore, but it was a pump house).
However: If it's a boat, you can build just about
anything that's sit's on the water and you'll not
need the $ for a waterfront property.
Cheers
Ken
Warm Worm
> "Señor Popcorn-Coconut"> wrote
>
> > While interesting, my idea is more along the lines of a stand-alone
> > "conservatory", a little like the following, but perhaps more
> > "high-end-contemporary" in style:
>
> >http://www.tanglewoodconservatories.com/conservatory/victorian.htm
> >http://www.tanglewoodconservatories.com/conservatory/beauty-inside.htm
>
> You could use a series of airtight 55 gal drums arranged in the proper
> pattern as a floating platform to assemble the structure upon to avoid
> having to install any sort of pilings to set the structure on.
> If the body of water is relatively calm this would be the easiest way to do
> it.
Interesting, although I'd prefer the structure on pilings and the idea
of it above the water, rather than floating on or under it, like a
modern Crannog:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crannog
Remember last year's alt.architecture's Architecture of the Month? :)
That way, you can moor watercraft underneath and thus have it function
as a bit of a boathouse and water-launch in general. If I was going to
get something to float, I'd rather live on a boat. (that rhymes)
> After it was built you could add ballast to make the structure *sink* to a
> level that would put the whole thing down to water level so that the barrels
> were not apparent (submerged).
I've also always fancied the idea of living or at least exploring in a
submarine, but preferably in a real and well-engineered one-- very
similar to the scientific deep-sea research ones. I never liked
houseboats.
Warm Worm
My idea is essentially a cozy gazebo on a wharf, and of course there
are wharves just about everywhere.
(And/Or what if you own the entire lake? ;) Unsure I am for ownership
of those kinds of things anyway though.)
In any case, I suppose I'd be happy enough with a nice ocean-going
sailing boat that slept 5 comfortably. :)
> However: If it'swa boat, you can build just about
> anything that's sit's on the water and you'll not
> need the $ for a waterfront property.
I could save that money for its parking spaces.
Don
"Warm Worm" <glom...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:1179259893....@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On May 15, 6:58 am, "Don" <one-if-by-l...@concord.com> wrote:
> "Señor Popcorn-Coconut"> wrote
>
> > While interesting, my idea is more along the lines of a stand-alone
> > "conservatory", a little like the following, but perhaps more
> > "high-end-contemporary" in style:
>
> >http://www.tanglewoodconservatories.com/conservatory/victorian.htm
> >http://www.tanglewoodconservatories.com/conservatory/beauty-inside.htm
>
> You could use a series of airtight 55 gal drums arranged in the proper
> pattern as a floating platform to assemble the structure upon to avoid
> having to install any sort of pilings to set the structure on.
> If the body of water is relatively calm this would be the easiest way to
> do
> it.
Interesting, although I'd prefer the structure on pilings and the idea
of it above the water, rather than floating on or under it, like a
modern Crannog:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crannog
Remember last year's alt.architecture's Architecture of the Month? :)
That way, you can moor watercraft underneath and thus have it function
as a bit of a boathouse and water-launch in general. If I was going to
get something to float, I'd rather live on a boat. (that rhymes)
You're sort of describing a restaurant I designed in the mid 90's.
200' off the shore of North Captiva Island in Safety Harbor.
Was originally an old ice house built back in the 20's for the fisherman to
ice their fish down and it was on pilings in the middle of Pine Iland Sound
off the coast of Punta Rassa.
It was cut off the rotten pilings and craned onto a barge and shipped
further north in the sound about 15 miles and set down on new concrete
pilings at its new location.
There is a 6' wide boardwalk from the land out to the retsaurant and it has
wide decking all around it for boats to pier up. A very exclusive place with
old Florida Cracker charm.
Mesquite Grouper, Blakened Snapper, Jerk Snook, Smoked Mullet, Conch
Chowder, Butterfly Scampi, Mmmmmmmm........Starts at about $50 a plate.
When I took on that project I of course broached the committee with the
usual topics pertaining to the legalities of building over water and the
fact that it was a historical structure and was told by the committee
president, 'Don't worry about the Historical Society, the Corp of Engineer,
the County Council, the Mayor, the Govenor or anybody else cause *we own em
all*'. LOL and they did.....
per.c...@privat.dk
> In a previous post Ken S. Tucker wrote...
>
> > That has been discussed before, but it's interesting.
> > A 60 mph wind produces pressure of ~ 10#/sq. stick
> > your hand out of a car to feel it.
>
> > The max tornado wind speeds are ~ 300mph, which
> > is 5x greater. However pressure increases with the
> > square of the velocity so it'll be 25x10#/sq. ft.
>
> > The smallest practical home is ~ 20x20, with 200 sq. ft
> > per side, so it would need to withstand 200x250 # of
> > force = 50,000# = 25 tons.
>
> Continuing Ken's example:
>
> Assuming 9-foot walls, that 50,000 pounds has an overturning moment of
> 50,000 x 4.5 feet = 225,000 pound-ft. It will require a pretty hefty
> footing to resist that kind of overturing force.
>
> --
> Bob Morrison, PE, SE
> R L Morrison Engineering Co
> Structural & Civil Engineering
> Poulsbo WA
> bob at rlmorrisonengr dot com
Hi.
Looking for clues well , these tornado's don't make much of a hole in
the ground , it's what is over ground level that is taken away
so ..... beside you gentlemen allway's do the calculations as if the
form the shape ,has nothing to do with the calculations they do, the
forces can possible be distribuated different by shaping the houses
towerds the forces so these in fact, act opposite that they force the
house down instead of away , a tricky engineering and expensive I
guess , but all newthinking and innovation are and, why shuldn't it be
possible.
It is possible to build so , that the house consist of a heavy inner
structure where the paneling are easily changed or rebuild --- maybe
that's another direction , build the new houses so that they are
easily repaired , like this example where even the core structure to,
is cheap and strong in sheet steel ;
Don
> Looking for clues well , these tornado's don't make much of a hole in
> the ground , it's what is over ground level that is taken away
> so ..... beside you gentlemen allway's do the calculations as if the
> form the shape ,has nothing to do with the calculations they do, the
> forces can possible be distribuated different by shaping the houses
> towerds the forces so these in fact, act opposite that they force the
> house down instead of away , a tricky engineering and expensive I
> guess , but all newthinking and innovation are and, why shuldn't it be
> possible.
Possible?
Why isn't it possible to install Saturn 5 rockets under all houses
everywhere and in the event of approaching peril no matter the source the
houses and occupants would be instantly jettisoned into the stratosphere
until the danger has passed?
Just think of all the people that wouldn't have perished in the tsunami if
the above possibility has been enacted?
Do it for the children.
Or, you can consider that Gaia is straining under the impact of
exponentially *increased human population* and is flexing it might to gain
equilibrium and that no matter what humans invent, discover or create they
will never exceed Gaia's capacity to defend itself.
It is, afterall, an entity unto itself.
**As volume expands, quality contracts.
Warm Worm
wrote:
Hi Per, how are you? Nice to catch you.
I may have mentioned this already, but have you thought of rapid
prototyping (and prefab) for 3DH? There are different ways to do
that:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid_Prototyping
Also, I presume it's patented!
Richard