Another tough day...
Pod Brother
kidney failure. It happened for all kinds of reasons
but I have come to the conclusion that doctors
kill as many as they save. This is a wake-up call
for me for if I do not act, they will get me eventually,
too.
No, not paranoid, just realizing that their short term
fixes can lead to long term problems and that the
responsibility for our health really lies with us and
our habits and practices. The sons-of-bitches have
come to rely too damn much on pills and we have
gone along with it. The general exception are the
surgeons who generally have to really have their
shit together...however, AFTER he had worked on
me I found out the surgeon my lovely GP sent me to
had removed arteries from a woman's leg instead of
veins and her leg had to be removed...this was from
a vascular surgeon. In time, the lawsuit came to trial
and the very same doctor who had chided me for
being overweight (probably being as overweight as
I and of FAR more sedentary habits and more stress)
did the plaintiff the disservice of dropping dead
during the trial. My loverly GP probably sent me
over there for my mundane surgery as a way of sending
him some business. I must consider that he might not
have been a bad surgeon, but hey...what's a leg or two
among friends?
So I am sitting here with this sense of fucking dread
about my last link to my family as originally constituted
being severed. Of course, I have my sister-in-law and
my niece and nephew, but the niece took off from
home and got knocked up without even finishing high
school and the nephew seems to have the initiative of
a dead trout. In any event, they have never seemed to
have time for their Uncle although I suppose that may
change if they run short of money or something.
So here you have it...a genuine fucking awakening
to the nasty realities and to tell the truth, I am not
grief stricken, just sort of disgusted. Now I know
why people run to cults and become religious fanatics.
They get to the point where they say, "Hey, this person
seems pretty confident in his bullshit...seems to be
working for him and what the fuck have I got to lose?"
I drive by the Unitarian Church every day on my way
to work every day and I have started to look longingly
at it even as I know that going in there will bring me in
contract with a lot of nice feelings and a load of unmitigated
bullshit. I have come to the conclusion over the years
that God is real, but most people haven't the slightest
fucking idea what is going on. As best as I can tell, God
(or whatever name you choose) is the system itself.
He (or it) created without acting, maintains without
intervening, giveth and taketh away with a precision
that can best be described like Brownian motion (you
can't trace a single atom but you can describe the net
effect of trillions), and just does what it does. With
time and discernment, we attempt to figure out what
this God "wants" and build a society and morality
around it with varying success.
Thinking on my mortality, I think that in death, I will
return to the state before I was conceived and in time,
all things will do that. If I want to be cute, I could say
we return to being potentials within the system.
I am rapidly, it seems, approaching that state that
Dr. Joplin described as nothing left to lose, although
that is not necessarily a bad thing. You know they tell
those stories about Jesus trucking along and people
just up and following him...I can just see one of those
fisher guys:
Hmmmm...fish this nasty ass lake for the rest of my
life in poverty and boredom...or follow this guy and
HAVE A FUCKING ADVENTURE! Of course,
the adventure could end up with some Roman spear
sticking out of your anus, or crucified upside down,
or fed to some lions, or having to listen to that dick
Judas bitch about how Jesus cannot stay on budget, but
in the end, what is the fucking difference?
I kid people saying "Life is beautiful until that sudden stop."
and they laugh because I think that deep down inside
that when I clap my hands together, symbolizing the
bug hitting the windshield, that we really are that way,
especially if we are lucky. There's this bug...didly bopping
along doing bug stuff, not concerned about non-bug
stuff, just being a bug. Bugs got business...bug gotta eat,
drink, shit, and if he is very, very lucky...reproduce.
(if his species is kinky she takes his dick deep inside
and just as she has him rolling his bug eyes and thinking
about that sandwich she is going to make him post-coital
she bites his fucking head off and he doesn't GET a
sandwich, he IS the sandwich.) In any event, this didly-
bopping bug is doing his shit and at some speed that
is a million times beyond the comprehension of his bug
mind...he is obliterated...no prayer...no fear...nothing...
except bug guts.
The best thing that I could compare this to for the human
race is if the sun...somehow...through some misplaced
part of an equation in the physicist's mind...just goes
nova without and warning...or maybe Betelgeuse throws
off one of those theoretical intense energy bursts that
hits the earth without any warning whatsoever and our
little brains are all microwaved...or cooked...or basically
the plug is pulled without warning. Stavros sitting on the
American Standard in mid-poop...can you imagine...POW!
...and he falls off the john like that guy from Laugh-In used
to fall off his tricycle...CLUNK. Me, I suppose I might
be caught with my ...hands full, but hey...I won't even
know it.
So here I am thinking that I should go off the grid and
become some sort of desperado...I liked that thing in
the TV show Kung Fu where he sort of just walks from
town to town and tries to spread the dharma and shit
by just being his little old self. You see...I am SMARTER
than Caine. In any number of situations he walks into
some fucking bar way out west and there is always some
guy hanging out getting drunk that if he was alive today
would be some sort of high-school drop out skinhead
with an attitude. And Caine comes in and orders a glass
of water or some shit since he can live by eating the
dust off of the furniture or some shit like that...well this
guy always calls out some abusive shit like HEY CHINAMAN
WE DON'T LIKE YOUR KIND AROUND HERE !
Caine then makes a big fucking mistake of trying to
REASON with someone who has the mind of a five
year old when he is sober...and a nasty, shitty five
year old at that: "I cannot understand why you hate
me, all I want is water." Then of course he ALWAYS
comes back with something that a five year old would
consider really clever like: "WELL CHINKY BOY
LETS SEE OF YOU CAN DRINK THAT WATER
WITH THAT GLASS STICKING OUT OF YOUR
ASS."
Still, Caine is fucking impenetrable..."I do not want any
trouble..." this is like yelling "NICE DOGGY!!!" after
the pit bull has torn your leg off hoping that he will
have a sudden canine fucking-epiphany and decide he
wants to be your friend. We all know what happens
next...Caine administers a carefully measured ass whipping
so precise that nobody actually gets killed, but a lot
of furniture gets broken.
Now me, I once walked into a situation like that right
here in Florida. WOT??!! you say, potential violence?
Yes...bear with me here: "The BEST VIOLENCE IS
THE VIOLENCE THAT NEVER HAPPENS?" I
had been to a particular bar many times although I
couldn't be considered a regular. Its a working class
bar...and it is getting late and I walk in and right at
the end of the bar are two drunk women who proclaim
"Hey there Fat Boy!" Now do I perhaps engage these
middle aged drunken wives of carpenters with witty
comebacks like "Hey there fat women!" or perhaps
do I stand upon my rights and say "That isn't very
nice!" No...cause of the same reason I will NEVER
be eaten by an alligator, because first of all, I avoid
the swamp and secondly, should I have to be in the
swamp, I will stay away from the bastards. (The
typical hick takes a rifle because he proclaims that
he ain't afraid of no gators...and then when he
falls off the back of the boat and loses his rifle
because he has consumed a case of beer, the alligator,
(doing what he do) snaps him up with glee because
not only is man tasty, but this one came MARINATED)
But, I need to get back to the story...sooo....
as I said, I walked in and I am immediately
confronted with these two women and their
forceful verbal assertion regarding my physical
and without pause, without blinking, without
answering, without asserting my rights, I do
an about face and walk out the door I came in
before it has even closed from my coming
in. By doing so, I may have missed a golden
opportunity to get laid but I might have also
missed a golden opportunity to have my ass
shattered by their men over at the pool table.
The world may never know and I don't need
to know. Its like having Shrodinger meet you
at the door to the lab and he says: "I have this
cat in a box..." and before he can finish you
are out the door and headed for Dunkin Donuts
because you don't want to be beaten to death
when the Anti-Vivisection Society finds out
what he is doing. THIS my friend is TRUE
RELATIVITY! Is the Cat alive? Is the Cat
dead? WOT FUCKING CAT? WHERE ARE
MY DONUTS?
So if I decide to lose my mind and go on
the road...just remember, I am very careful
fucking desperado!
--
Pod Brother
God is conscience. He is even the
atheism of the atheist. - Gandhi
Donald Shepherd
>
>
> I drive by the Unitarian Church every day on my way
> to work every day and I have started to look longingly
> at it even as I know that going in there will bring me in
> contract with a lot of nice feelings and a load of unmitigated
> bullshit.
If you go in you will find many liberals. But if you can handle that I
think you'll like the spirit of free, responsible inquiry.
Don
bonoboyana superfly
> So if I decide to lose my mind and go on
> the road...just remember, I am very careful
> fucking desperado!
OK, a poll: which should Sanfy chose:
1. The circus
2. The merchant marines
3. Disaster relief crew
4. Other...
bonoboyana superfly
> So I am sitting here with this sense of fucking dread
> about my last link to my family as originally constituted
> being severed. Of course, I have my sister-in-law and
> my niece and nephew, but the niece took off from
> home and got knocked up without even finishing high
> school and the nephew seems to have the initiative of
> a dead trout. In any event, they have never seemed to
> have time for their Uncle although I suppose that may
> change if they run short of money or something.
You knew them when they were little. They still are and maybe will find
they'll want you more before they know it. Losing a parent or a child
his something very fundamental. Think of them as other homeless that
need ministering. Everyone's facing that clock and it's another reminder
to watch a sibling run up against the terms of the lease.
> So here you have it...a genuine fucking awakening
> to the nasty realities
Oh, absolutely.
> I drive by the Unitarian Church every day on my way
> to work every day and I have started to look longingly
> at it even as I know that going in there will bring me in
> contract with a lot of nice feelings and a load of unmitigated
> bullshit.
The thing I like about the Unitarians is they look for the most
economical approach. Dunno if they've managed to clean out the "original
sin" mess as well. I'm still looking for a UU Church that isn't
wallowing in vainglory, someone might find me yet in the back pews of
the next-worse thing, like you, the straight-on Unitarians that went for
the UU merger.
> I have come to the conclusion over the years
> that God is real, but most people haven't the slightest
> fucking idea what is going on.
Sure, God is real. In the sense that it's a real sense that we
experience that is otherwise unmeasurable & untestable. I've noticed
that I enjoy reinventing God not b/c I need a big nobodaddy in the sky
or a personal reassurance that all will be well (altho that'd be nice)
but in the Deist and Taoist sense, that out of chaos we ride on a wave
of negentropy. Many of the original quantum physicists made this very point.
> As best as I can tell, God
> (or whatever name you choose) is the system itself.
Yup.
> I am rapidly, it seems, approaching that state that
> Dr. Joplin described as nothing left to lose, although
> that is not necessarily a bad thing.
No it's a great thing! Maybe I've got ten good years left. Maybe twenty.
So what am I going to do with them?
> Hmmmm...fish this nasty ass lake for the rest of my
> life in poverty and boredom...or follow this guy and
> HAVE A FUCKING ADVENTURE! Of course,
> the adventure could end up with some Roman spear
> sticking out of your anus, or crucified upside down,
> or fed to some lions, or having to listen to that dick
> Judas bitch about how Jesus cannot stay on budget, but
> in the end, what is the fucking difference?
One of things I admire about Xianity is that it's clearly structured to
craft the balance of the positivist sense of progress against noumenal
terror (nihilism). The good votary's inner candle that whatever may
come, there's a better tomorrow, they can soldier through with
compassion and serenity knowing there's that final fallback option, and
there's still an innate goodness to a seemingly indifferent universe.
Xianity is unique in that it seeks to be charitable to all, outside it's
own confines. It was a step up from the cruel, henotheistic mess of the
day, that's why Constantine opted for what was already becoming a
sweeping trend.
> I kid people saying "Life is beautiful until that sudden stop."
> and they laugh because I think that deep down inside
> that when I clap my hands together, symbolizing the
> bug hitting the windshield, that we really are that way,
> especially if we are lucky.
:-)
> this didly-
> bopping bug is doing his shit and at some speed that
> is a million times beyond the comprehension of his bug
> mind...he is obliterated...no prayer...no fear...nothing...
> except bug guts.
I feel a country song coming ...
He had his dog
his wife, his truck
Good ol' George had it all
but like a bug
on the windshield
he was taken out by life....
> The best thing that I could compare this to for the human
> race is if the sun...somehow...through some misplaced
> part of an equation in the physicist's mind...just goes
> nova without and warning...
Geez. Another old fart wishing for the giant cosmic shit hammer!? What's
with our generation?
> I may have missed a golden
> opportunity to get laid
I doubt they were flirting that far. Redneck facetious banter is fun,
it's some of the friendliest most easy going social repartee I enjoy -
it's easy to strike up, older folk know how to do it. Lots of kidding
around, mostly. The one thing I've repeatedly noticed is when I go to
Whole Foods the Yuppy twits there NEVER DO IT, don't know how. One time
my bro & I went in to the one in Winter Park & we were making jokes like
we were a gay couple (I was just holding some flowers for his wife). You
coulda cut the air with a knife & we were just laughing about it.
> but I might have also
> missed a golden opportunity to have my ass
> shattered by their men over at the pool table.
I'm assuming you mean getting punched & not made to squeal like a pig.
> The world may never know and I don't need
> to know. Its like having Shrodinger meet you
> at the door to the lab and he says: "I have this
> cat in a box..."
Look at it this way: YOU are the cat in the box. You are either alive or
dead. So long as God keeps observing you like this he collapses your
wave form & you keep having a measurable experience.
/leebert
bonoboyana superfly
The Unitarians are a bit more conservative than the UUers who these days
are almost completely unmoored.
/leebert
bonoboyana superfly
> someone might find me yet in the back pews of
> the next-worse thing, like you, the straight-on Unitarians that went for
> the UU merger.
TYPO: Should have read, "the straight-on Unitarians that NEVER went for
the UU merger..."
/leebert
Lee Rudolph
>Pod Brother wrote:
>
>> So if I decide to lose my mind and go on
>> the road...just remember, I am very careful
>> fucking desperado!
>
>OK, a poll: which should Sanfy chose:
>
>1. The circus
_Toby Tyler_ or _Killer Klowns from Outer Space_?
>2. The merchant marines
Richard Henry Dana or B. Traven?
>3. Disaster relief crew
Job's comforters or Helluva Job Brownie?
Lee Rudolph
Lee Rudolph
In this particular part of New England the UUers don't seem to be
very thick on the ground (for all that Universalism started here; well,
hell, so did the Baptists), but there's a fair number of Quaker meetings.
The thing about Quakers is, they may or may not be Christian, but at
least they don't talk about it.
And don't let being a warmonger stop you; look at RMN!
Lee Rudolph
bonoboyana superfly
I've thought about hem. A good many Quakers are pretty militant in their
pacificism & I'd rather that shit be left at the door, so I can leave my
shit at the door.
/leebert
Donald Shepherd
The Chippendales.
Don
bonoboyana superfly
As the opener he could come out in a chipmunk suit, looking for his
nuts. That'd get the girls really relaxed.
/leebert
Lee Rudolph
And, once they're relaxed, fluffing is the next stage. Brilliant!!!
Lee Rudolph
Benjamin
Are there any? I know there are a bunch of congregationalist churches,
but I don't know any churches which call them selves Unitarian as
distinct from UU.
Ben
bonoboyana superfly
They're rare, but they do exist, esp. Back East.
/leebert
Edgar
news:MtXti.4638$QP5....@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
I always thought you could write a good book. I'd read it.
--
Edgar
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Pod Brother
I was pretty surprised reading what I wrote...
sort of channeling Louis Black who I feel is
incredibly funny.
--
Pod Brother
I have gotten in touch with my inner child
and the little bastard turned me
in as a molester.
Giggles Like a Girl
says...
I totally hear that.
> Now I know
>why people run to cults and become religious fanatics.
>They get to the point where they say, "Hey, this person
>seems pretty confident in his bullshit...seems to be
>working for him and what the fuck have I got to lose?"
Heh, more than a grain of truth there. Religion (of
any kind, not just cults) is a response to a world that
is perceived as wanting.
>I drive by the Unitarian Church every day on my way
>to work every day and I have started to look longingly
>at it even as I know that going in there will bring me in
>contract with a lot of nice feelings and a load of unmitigated
>bullshit. I have come to the conclusion over the years
>that God is real, but most people haven't the slightest
>fucking idea what is going on. As best as I can tell, God
>(or whatever name you choose) is the system itself.
>He (or it) created without acting, maintains without
>intervening, giveth and taketh away with a precision
>that can best be described like Brownian motion (you
>can't trace a single atom but you can describe the net
>effect of trillions), and just does what it does. With
>time and discernment, we attempt to figure out what
>this God "wants" and build a society and morality
>around it with varying success.
Damn, now I am jealous. I haven't managed to talk
myself into belief in even that kind of God, and
that would be about the closest to my own potential
view of God that you could get. If I could get just
that far I could go back to the Church myself, which
is something I would like to do.
LOL!
Sanford, the careful desperado potential unitarian.
Now you know why I want to get involved with UFO
chasers or sasquatch hunters or sumpthin.
--
Giggles Like a Girl
Lee Rudolph
>Now you know why I want to get involved with UFO
>chasers or sasquatch hunters or sumpthin.
Walk across the street and tell'em you want to distribute
sex questionnaires to sasquatches on flying saucers.
I'm sure they'll put you on soft money in no time.
Lee Rudolph
KittyP
> Edgar said:
>> "Pod Brother" <p...@absfg.org> wrote in message
>> news:MtXti.4638$QP5....@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
>>>
>>
>
> I was pretty surprised reading what I wrote...
> sort of channeling Louis Black who I feel is
> incredibly funny.
>
Try channeling Gore Vidal and make some real money.
Kitty
dt
> Edgar said:
>
>>"Pod Brother" <p...@absfg.org> wrote in message
(snip)
>>>So if I decide to lose my mind and go on
>>>the road...just remember, I am very careful
>>>fucking desperado!
>>>
>>
>>I always thought you could write a good book. I'd read it.
Just save all his posts. You can edit them into "The Collected Writings
of..."
> I was pretty surprised reading what I wrote...
> sort of channeling Louis Black who I feel is
> incredibly funny.
Sorry to hear about your brother, man. Doctors definitely aren't
infallible; most of the time they play the odds, and most of the time it
works out. A friend of mine has a saying about psychotropic meds, which
really applies to a whole lot of health care: We are all our own guinea
pigs. What works for one person doesn't necessarily work for every
person. And sometimes the doctors just screw up.
DT
Bj
> Apparently, my brother is in the hospital with
> kidney failure. It happened for all kinds of reasons
> but I have come to the conclusion that doctors
> kill as many as they save. This is a wake-up call
> for me for if I do not act, they will get me eventually,
> too.
"Doctors will have more lives to answer for in the next world than even we
generals. "
- Napoleon
Bj
Kirsten Bayes
> Apparently, my brother is in the hospital with
> kidney failure. It happened for all kinds of reasons
> but I have come to the conclusion that doctors
> kill as many as they save. This is a wake-up call
> for me for if I do not act, they will get me eventually,
> too.
Goodness, that is terrible. Modern industrialised medicine has many
benefits, but it is not run for the individual: it operates on a law of
averages. Big hugs to you and your brother.
The Buddha talked about a sick man as one of the "divine messengers"
reminding us of mortality and the need to discover the dharma. We are
here for a finite time, and while that should dispel our pretensions of
making a long term difference, it also means we can make a great
difference to the time we ourselves live in.
What I would say is that you can make any changes you want to make on a
part time basis, and see how they fit. If you want to write the great
American novel, walk the Earth getting into adventures, or help a good
man (or woman) run for President, you can do it in your time off. What
you will find is that your day job will go better for it - any work you
do, always teaches you something.
I always joke that I have the best job in the world - it's just for
three different employers.
Best wishes
Kirsten
spincycle
> Apparently, my brother is in the hospital with
> kidney failure. It happened for all kinds of reasons
> but I have come to the conclusion that doctors
> kill as many as they save. This is a wake-up call
> for me for if I do not act, they will get me eventually,
> too.
They will get you eventually.
[...]
> I drive by the Unitarian Church every day on my way
> to work every day and I have started to look longingly
> at it even as I know that going in there will bring me in
> contract with a lot of nice feelings and a load of unmitigated
> bullshit.
[....]
Save yourself the heart-ache. Too much do-gooding in a UU Church -
It'll put you off your feed.
If you act - you might do more harm then good.
If you do not act - your inaction might do more harm than good.
Can you just sit with your brother?
Take care.
Diane
bonfils
alt.buddha.short.fat.guy and expostulated:
> So here you have it...a genuine fucking awakening
> to the nasty realities and to tell the truth, I am not
> grief stricken, just sort of disgusted. Now I know
> why people run to cults and become religious fanatics.
> They get to the point where they say, "Hey, this person
> seems pretty confident in his bullshit...seems to be
> working for him and what the fuck have I got to lose?"
Hm. Well, personally I feel strangely attracted to reality. Dunno why -
cause yes, it's often painful. But actively seeking delusion doesn't
appeal to me.
--
bonfils
http://kim.bonfils.com
"Chicks are for fags."
-Ben, alt.buddha.short.fat.guy
To send me a massage, please remove your.underwear to reply.
leebert
> On 7 Aug, 05:05, "Pod Brother" <p...@absfg.org> wrote:
>> Apparently, my brother is in the hospital with
>> kidney failure. It happened for all kinds of reasons
>> but I have come to the conclusion that doctors
>> kill as many as they save. This is a wake-up call
>> for me for if I do not act, they will get me eventually,
>> too.
>
> They will get you eventually.
>
> [...]
>
>> I drive by the Unitarian Church every day on my way
>> to work every day and I have started to look longingly
>> at it even as I know that going in there will bring me in
>> contract with a lot of nice feelings and a load of unmitigated
>> bullshit.
>
> [....]
>
> Save yourself the heart-ache. Too much do-gooding in a UU Church -
> It'll put you off your feed.
The UUers are a bit too self-consciously cool. The older, non-reformed
Xian Unitarians who didn't go with the big UU merger, are purported to
be more conventional. ;-)
ShelShokT
"bonoboyana superfly" <"leebertarian["@t]yahoo[dot.]com> wrote in message
news:13bgrpt...@corp.supernews.com...
4.) Other.
I recommend the Independent Bikers Association - you get to wear a scary
looking jacket that doesn't really mean anything and hang out with people
who believe in irresponsibility as a virtue.
--
Wally
Synergism inheres negentropy. Or vice versa. I forget which.
/leebert
Keynes
Black is probably good, but he ought to speak up.
Sometimes I can hardly hear him.
Giggles Like a Girl
k...@bonfils.your.underwear.com says...
>
>On 07 aug 2007, someone posing as "Pod Brother" came to
>alt.buddha.short.fat.guy and expostulated:
>
>> So here you have it...a genuine fucking awakening
>> to the nasty realities and to tell the truth, I am not
>> grief stricken, just sort of disgusted. Now I know
>> why people run to cults and become religious fanatics.
>> They get to the point where they say, "Hey, this person
>> seems pretty confident in his bullshit...seems to be
>> working for him and what the fuck have I got to lose?"
>
>Hm. Well, personally I feel strangely attracted to reality. Dunno why -
>cause yes, it's often painful. But actively seeking delusion doesn't
>appeal to me.
But surely going into delusion with your eyes open
is way better than stumbling into it blindly.
I respect a person who can convince himself of
something he doesn't believe. It's not that easy.
Giggles Like a Girl
says...
>
>
>"bonoboyana superfly" <"leebertarian["@t]yahoo[dot.]com> wrote in message
>news:13bgrpt...@corp.supernews.com...
>> Pod Brother wrote:
>>
>>> So if I decide to lose my mind and go on
>>> the road...just remember, I am very careful
>>> fucking desperado!
>>
>> OK, a poll: which should Sanfy chose:
>>
>> 1. The circus
>> 2. The merchant marines
>> 3. Disaster relief crew
>> 4. Other...
>
>4.) Other.
>
>I recommend the Independent Bikers Association - you get to wear a scary
>looking jacket that doesn't really mean anything and hang out with people
>who believe in irresponsibility as a virtue.
They have offices on K street, don't they?
Giggles Like a Girl
says...
>
>I always joke that I have the best job in the world - it's just for
>three different employers.
Hey, that's another way that we are alike. I work
for three different employers too: the Father, the
Son, and the Holy Ghost!
bonfils
alt.buddha.short.fat.guy and expostulated:
> In article <Xns9985E9962F4...@212.242.40.170>,
> k...@bonfils.your.underwear.com says...
>>Hm. Well, personally I feel strangely attracted to reality. Dunno why
>>- cause yes, it's often painful. But actively seeking delusion doesn't
>>appeal to me.
>
> But surely going into delusion with your eyes open
> is way better than stumbling into it blindly.
Why?
You might as well argue the opposite: Stumbling into it blindly is at
least an excuse. Like those who are raised within a certain religious
faith may have a hard time seeing its shortcomings. Whereas someone from
the outside who converts to a crackpot faith doesn't have that excuse.
> I respect a person who can convince himself of
> something he doesn't believe. It's not that easy.
Why the heck would you respect bizarre behaviour like that?
Okay, you may be more adept at playing tricks with your mind than I am.
But heck, it takes all my mental power to just get *rid* of old
delusions and accept facts. Even when reality is staring me right in the
face.
But the idea of "hey, this is dead wrong. I want to believe in that!" I
can't imagine mustering the necessary strength to do such a thing.
Unless, of course, you don't fully believe it, but just play with the
idea - the way you pretend to live in the universe of a computer game,
even though you know it's make-believe. I wouldn't call that "belief"
though - as you're ready to snap out of it any second when the phone
rings.
Lee Rudolph
"Scratch that order for a 'My Boss is a Jewish Carpenter' bumpersticker.
It should read 'My Bosses are a Psychopathic Mass Murderer, A Jewish
Carpenter, And An Aural Statutory Rapist'!"
Lee Rudolph
bonoboyana superfly
> On 07 aug 2007, someone posing as "Pod Brother" came to
> alt.buddha.short.fat.guy and expostulated:
>
>> So here you have it...a genuine fucking awakening
>> to the nasty realities and to tell the truth, I am not
>> grief stricken, just sort of disgusted. Now I know
>> why people run to cults and become religious fanatics.
>> They get to the point where they say, "Hey, this person
>> seems pretty confident in his bullshit...seems to be
>> working for him and what the fuck have I got to lose?"
>
> Hm. Well, personally I feel strangely attracted to reality. Dunno why -
> cause yes, it's often painful. But actively seeking delusion doesn't
> appeal to me.
The critical point made by prophets & sages is you already *ARE*
actively seeking delusion. So follow them instead, b/c their's is better.
New & Improved, etc.
/leebert
deelek Exterminate!
> to the nasty realities and to tell the truth, I am not
> grief stricken, just sort of disgusted. Now I know
> why people run to cults and become religious fanatics.
> They get to the point where they say, "Hey, this person
> seems pretty confident in his bullshit...seems to be
> working for him and what the fuck have I got to lose?"
>
> the road...just remember, I am very careful
> fucking desperado!
>
> Pod Brother
> God is conscience. He is even the
> atheism of the atheist. - Gandhi
Best wishes to you and your inner organs!
Ok everyone knows this one:
A duck walks into a bar, asks the barman, "Do you have any peanuts?".
"No peanuts," says the barman. The duck walks out. It comes back a
while later, asks, "Do you have any peanut?". "No," the barman
replies. The duck walks out again, and comes back again, asks, "Do
you have any peanuts?" The barman glares at the duck, warns, "Look,
we don't have any peanuts. And if you don't stop asking for peanuts,
I'm going to nail your damn beak to the bar!" The duck walks out,
comes back again, asks, "Do you have any nails?" A bit surprised, the
barman says, "No." "Do you have any peanuts?" asks the duck.
bonoboyana superfly
As not for whom the bell tolls....
/leebert
deelek Exterminate!
Cheers for the ideas, that's what my landlady used to say to me.
Ultimately I would better have a job to save up enough to walk the
earth or something like that.
bonoboyana superfly
It's that kind of family business that leads to morale problems.
/leebert
bonoboyana superfly
I missed that part in the Bible. Who raped the statue?
/leebert
bonoboyana superfly
One of my favorite "safe all kinds of mixed company" jokes.
I heard it as grapes. I think it's b/c kids have a hard time pronouncing
"peanuts" carefully enough. I suspect that's why my parents would
mention the cartoon strip as "Charlie Brown," as in "Did you the Charlie
Brown today?"
/leebert
bonoboyana superfly
So if you go for that theoretical physics gig, you know you can get six
figure gigs afterwards using chaos modeling for stock brokers.
/leebert
Pete Watters
And all kinds of trouble with prophet sharing.
Pete
bonoboyana superfly
Ewwwwww. Groan. Pete, you're in top form this A.M.
/leebert
bonoboyana superfly
And they leave messiahs everywhere for other people to clean up.
/leebert
Lee Rudolph
You know that salt lick, just outside the former gates of Sodom?
Lee Rudolph (and you thought Pasiphae had it hard)
Wilson
As a human being it's impossible to escape belief. I approach
belief as a verb, trying one on the same way I'd try on an
overcoat. See if it fits, how it makes me feel. Does it help
me be where I want to be. If it turns out I don't like it I
can discard it and try another for awhile.
--
Wilson
"Caricature became simulacrum
sometime in the last decade, but the
old neurons still tickle in the familiar
way so WTF, pwn me one more time,
baby." -Giggles
KittyP
"Pete Watters" <eldu...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:eldupree-2A217C...@news.west.cox.net...
And don't forget about a Job.
K
Keynes
God - "WHAT'S THAT IN YOUR HAND?"
Adam - "That's what I want to know."
Keynes
<"leebertarian["@t]yahoo[dot.]com> wrote:
Not only that.
They say there will be a second coming.
And we haven't even cleaned up the first one yet.
bonoboyana superfly
Yeh, but it takes a typical lascivious pyg male on a mission to lay some
innocent galatea.
> Lee Rudolph (and you thought Pasiphae had it hard)
She was pretty normal tho, minos that one mistake.
/leebert
Lee Rudolph
>As a human being it's impossible to escape belief. I approach
>belief as a verb, trying one on the same way I'd try on an
>overcoat. See if it fits, how it makes me feel. Does it help
>me be where I want to be. If it turns out I don't like it I
>can discard it and try another for awhile.
Wilson, the Dirty Old Man of belief.
Lee Rudolph (at last I understand what they mean by "flash of insight")
bonoboyana superfly
> bonoboyana superfly" <"leebertarian[ wrote:
>> bonfils wrote:
>>> On 07 aug 2007, someone posing as "Pod Brother" came to
>>> alt.buddha.short.fat.guy and expostulated:
>>>
>>>> So here you have it...a genuine fucking awakening
>>>> to the nasty realities and to tell the truth, I am not
>>>> grief stricken, just sort of disgusted. Now I know
>>>> why people run to cults and become religious fanatics.
>>>> They get to the point where they say, "Hey, this person
>>>> seems pretty confident in his bullshit...seems to be
>>>> working for him and what the fuck have I got to lose?"
>>>
>>> Hm. Well, personally I feel strangely attracted to reality.
>>> Dunno why - cause yes, it's often painful. But actively
>>> seeking delusion doesn't appeal to me.
>>
>> The critical point made by prophets & sages is you already
>> *ARE* actively seeking delusion. So follow them instead, b/c
>> their's is better.
>> New & Improved, etc.
>
>
> As a human being it's impossible to escape belief. I approach belief as
> a verb, trying one on the same way I'd try on an overcoat. See if it
> fits, how it makes me feel. Does it help me be where I want to be. If
> it turns out I don't like it I can discard it and try another for awhile.
>
Belief is a psychological state of mind. Belief reifies itself through
dialectics. Just like self and belief in self.
Self is a headsack that fits like a burkha. Once we try it on for size
it's hard to take off.
/leebert
Kirsten Bayes
>
> So if you go for that theoretical physics gig, you know you can get six
> figure gigs afterwards using chaos modeling for stock brokers.
>
> /leebert
The husband of my best friend at college did just that. One moment,
devoted to science at CERN, next moment working for 40 times the salary
at a merchant bank. It turns out that feeding and housing the kids was
more important to him than discovering the mass of a neutrino.
Now me, I sold out from the get-go.
Best wishes
Kirsten
bonoboyana superfly
Well that's not as nasty to get after es schatons left in the throne.
It'd be better if they weren't so eminent and only incoproreal.
/leebert
bonoboyana superfly
Ahhhh.... Pink Flamingos.
/leebert
Keynes
>bonoboyana superfly" <"leebertarian[ wrote:
>> bonfils wrote:
>>> On 07 aug 2007, someone posing as "Pod Brother" came to
>>> alt.buddha.short.fat.guy and expostulated:
>>>
>>>> So here you have it...a genuine fucking awakening
>>>> to the nasty realities and to tell the truth, I am not
>>>> grief stricken, just sort of disgusted. Now I know
>>>> why people run to cults and become religious fanatics.
>>>> They get to the point where they say, "Hey, this person
>>>> seems pretty confident in his bullshit...seems to be
>>>> working for him and what the fuck have I got to lose?"
>>>
>>> Hm. Well, personally I feel strangely attracted to reality.
>>> Dunno why - cause yes, it's often painful. But actively
>>> seeking delusion doesn't appeal to me.
>>
>> The critical point made by prophets & sages is you already
>> *ARE* actively seeking delusion. So follow them instead, b/c
>> their's is better.
>> New & Improved, etc.
>
>
>As a human being it's impossible to escape belief. I approach
>belief as a verb, trying one on the same way I'd try on an
>overcoat. See if it fits, how it makes me feel. Does it help
>me be where I want to be. If it turns out I don't like it I
>can discard it and try another for awhile.
Belief is involuntary.
Otherwise who could believe the worst?
If folks could willfully believe, wouldn't they
give themselves a free ticket to heaven and
avoid a trip to hell? (If they were raised xian.)
But the western world is of two minds, and
doubt creeps in. We can't believe what we want,
but we believe what we think we must.
The common materialist belief of gain and loss,
birth and death in time is taught to all children
in the western world as the facts of life. Even
the abrahamic religions take that premise for
granted. Kids uncritically accept what they
are told and they believe it. (If they can.)
Traditional and primitive societies teach
different beliefs, and they become their
true facts of life.
All beliefs are prisons. If one thinks he
knows what's going on, how can he ever
find out what is really happening?
Julian
"bonoboyana superfly" <"leebertarian["@t]yahoo[dot.]com> wrote in message
news:13bjftn...@corp.supernews.com...
That reminds me of the bright boys at LTCM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-Term_Capital_Management
Donald Shepherd
>
> Belief is involuntary.
>
>
Not for everyone. Some people can sincerely believe whatever is
convenient for them. They become successful salesmen and politicians.
Don
bonoboyana superfly
Beliefs are gilded so we like sitting inside them. Scary beliefs keep
some from picking the lock. But we can just pass in & out of the cage if
we want to. Then it's not a cage, it's just a structure to work with.
There are two types of beliefs based in learning. Belief from direct
experience and belief from indirect modeled - taught - experience,
either providing expectations as to how to cope in the world. Either
type of belief has its root in an experience, and both can be
deconstructed both back to their origins or on their merits.
We can learn through direct experience. We can peel back the onion skin
of beliefs until we have direct access to what is actually being
experienced, not what our expectations are of what we are experiencing.
I think many people who are drawn to direct, intense and raw experiences
do so because they've discovered so many of their beliefs are vicarious
and find them wanting. S&M is exciting because both parties are
surrendering to something much more raw and intense than a belief system
of inculcated and vicarious expectations. But its easy to get addicted
to raw and intense experiences, and the cravings become delusory.
Ritualistic sex and S&M were very much sanctioned and inside society
under the Roman pantheon, but fell outside society under Christiandom.
Western religion first mandates its votaries to submit to a greater
realm, a greater purpose than raw impulse. Sublimating and redirecting
those cravings brings things sublime and/or organized.
Sometimes the terms of surrender are too odious in the peace a person
must negotiate with his culture. Spiritual doctrine vs. materialism. But
it's easy to go off the rails in the process. Belief vs. disbelief.
Certitude vs. apognosis. Hope vs. ennui.
Fleeing from one extreme to another just means we're changing cages.
Dualism inheres dialectics. Dialectics inhere their controverse.
After Sarte, belief is a trap for fools.
/leebert
bonoboyana superfly
I liked the fact that we had to bail out them & their creditors to
prevent a worldwide meltdown.
If downtown Miami got hit by a hurricane, it'd become a ghost town of
giant skeletons b/c the insurance industry would have to destroy itself
in order to rebuild Miami.
/leebert
ShelShokT
"Lee Rudolph" <lrud...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:f9c9h5$clt$1...@panix2.panix.com...
> not.a.s...@now.go.away (Giggles Like a Girl) writes:
>
>>>three different employers.
>>
>>for three different employers too: the Father, the
>>Son, and the Holy Ghost!
>
> It should read 'My Bosses are a Psychopathic Mass Murderer, A Jewish
> Carpenter, And An Aural Statutory Rapist'!"
Saw a bumper sticker t'other day on a local militiaman's pickup that said
"My boss is an Austrian painter."
--
Wally
Synergism inheres negentropy. Or vice versa. I forget which.
/leebert
bonoboyana superfly
Eeks.
/leebert
Wilson
> Julian wrote:
>>
>> That reminds me of the bright boys at LTCM
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-Term_Capital_Management
>
> I liked the fact that we had to bail out them & their
> creditors to prevent a worldwide meltdown.
>
> If downtown Miami got hit by a hurricane, it'd become a
> ghost town of giant skeletons b/c the insurance industry
> would have to destroy itself in order to rebuild Miami.
Naw. They'd just go to that bottomless well of financial
solvitude, the Federal Government.
Julian
"Wilson" <Wil...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:9amui.7499$CE4.4740@trndny03...
> bonoboyana superfly" <"leebertarian[ wrote:
>> Julian wrote:
>>>
>>> That reminds me of the bright boys at LTCM
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-Term_Capital_Management
>>
>> I liked the fact that we had to bail out them & their
>> creditors to prevent a worldwide meltdown.
>>
>> If downtown Miami got hit by a hurricane, it'd become a
>> ghost town of giant skeletons b/c the insurance industry
>> would have to destroy itself in order to rebuild Miami.
>
> Naw. They'd just go to that bottomless well of financial solvitude, the
> Federal Government.
>
They don't even need to do that.
Insurers can just ramp up premiums
since insurance is often compulsory.
Wilson
But of course we're all fools here.
I like the "gilded cage" perspective. Perhaps it's a gilded
spaceship on an interstellar journey. As near as I can tell I
can't operate without beliefs. It seems the best I can do is
to be aware of which ones are in operation at the moment.
--
Wilson
bonoboyana superfly
Y'know? I'm really tired of waiting for that asteroid.
/leebert
dt
> In article <eI2dnfWkZbMRtSTb...@bright.net>, shel...@yahoo.com
> says...
>
>>
>>"bonoboyana superfly" <"leebertarian["@t]yahoo[dot.]com> wrote in message
>>news:13bgrpt...@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>>>Pod Brother wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>So if I decide to lose my mind and go on
>>>>the road...just remember, I am very careful
>>>>fucking desperado!
>>>
>>>OK, a poll: which should Sanfy chose:
>>>
>>>1. The circus
>>>2. The merchant marines
>>>3. Disaster relief crew
>>>4. Other...
>>
>>4.) Other.
>>
>>I recommend the Independent Bikers Association - you get to wear a scary
>>looking jacket that doesn't really mean anything and hang out with people
>>who believe in irresponsibility as a virtue.
>
>
> They have offices on K street, don't they?
Probably. All the big, tough, mean-looking bikers I know are doctors,
lawyers, accountants, etc. They're just bikers on weekends.
DT
dt
Obviously the "LT" was a misnomer.
DT
bonoboyana superfly
Of our own device. ;-)
Speaking of whom, the threads have lacked a certain somebody today.
I might go join him for a while.
> I like the "gilded cage" perspective. Perhaps it's a gilded spaceship
> on an interstellar journey. As near as I can tell I can't operate
> without beliefs. It seems the best I can do is to be aware of which
> ones are in operation at the moment.
Same here.
I think I'm doing something right tho 'cuz they seem to be getting
lighter as I go.
/leebert
Julian
"dt" <dal...@ATnewsguy.com> wrote in message
news:f9cva6$i0q$5...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu...
And CM.
Then again, those responsible for the trillion dollar black hole
got away scot free after collecting massive fees and were back
in business, using the same methods, within days.
Want to buy a Tulip?
Uncle Weasel
(in message <MtXti.4638$QP5....@bignews1.bellsouth.net>):
> I drive by the Unitarian Church every day on my way
> to work every day and I have started to look longingly
> at it even as I know that going in there will bring me in
> contract with a lot of nice feelings and a load of unmitigated
> bullshit.
No, Sanford! Stay away from the Unitarians! They will smother you with
reasonableness!
---Uncle Weasel
--
"The Bible is pretty straightforward and easy to understand,
so long as you go into it knowing what you want it to say."
---Daryl the Canuckistani
dt
Good idea! That way you avoid the rush.
DT
dt
Sounds like they M-ed the C just fine, then. At least from their
perspective.
DT
Giggles Like a Girl
says...
>
>On 08 aug 2007, someone posing as "Giggles Like a Girl" came to
>alt.buddha.short.fat.guy and expostulated:
>
>> In article <Xns9985E9962F4...@212.242.40.170>,
>> k...@bonfils.your.underwear.com says...
>
>>>Hm. Well, personally I feel strangely attracted to reality. Dunno why
>>>- cause yes, it's often painful. But actively seeking delusion doesn't
>>>appeal to me.
>>
>> is way better than stumbling into it blindly.
>
>Why?
>
>You might as well argue the opposite: Stumbling into it blindly is at
>least an excuse. Like those who are raised within a certain religious
>faith may have a hard time seeing its shortcomings. Whereas someone from
>the outside who converts to a crackpot faith doesn't have that excuse.
We don need no steenking excuses...
>> I respect a person who can convince himself of
>> something he doesn't believe. It's not that easy.
>
>Why the heck would you respect bizarre behaviour like that?
I respect the ability to do something difficult.
Also, it could be a handy skill if the enemy ever
hooks you up to a lie detector and gives you a shot
of truth serum.
>Okay, you may be more adept at playing tricks with your mind than I am.
I do consider it a playground. WTF, I'm not using it
for anything important 90% of the time anyway. Ask
anyone (especially T). :)
>But heck, it takes all my mental power to just get *rid* of old
>delusions and accept facts. Even when reality is staring me right in the
>face.
Yeah, desire is a bitch.
>But the idea of "hey, this is dead wrong. I want to believe in that!" I
>can't imagine mustering the necessary strength to do such a thing.
It can't be done that directly. First you have to find
that grain of doubt in your disbelief, then you have to
nurture it. It also helps if it's something that you
can't actually prove isn't true. Disbelief isn't usually
a matter of knowing that something is "dead wrong". It's
usually a matter of considering it highly improbable.
There's where you would stick the wedge in.
>Unless, of course, you don't fully believe it, but just play with the
>idea - the way you pretend to live in the universe of a computer game,
>even though you know it's make-believe. I wouldn't call that "belief"
>though - as you're ready to snap out of it any second when the phone
>rings.
Heh, that would be more my style. If I join a sasquatch
hunting, UFO chasing, spirit contacting group, I will
merely suspend my commitment to calling those things
"flakey" long enough to enjoy the thrill of hoping that I
was wrong about one of them.
There's a third possibility, though. It could be that
you neither disbelieve or believe fully, but find belief
valuable enough that you choose to engage belief rather
than disbelief. (I personally think that this is what a
lot of modern, liberal Christians do. Likewise with
gamblers who gamble just for the entertainment.)
Believer, non-believer, agnostic. Have we left anyone
out?
--
Giggles Like a Girl
Giggles Like a Girl
>
>not.a.s...@now.go.away (Giggles Like a Girl) writes:
>
>>In article <11865184...@damia.uk.clara.net>,
kir...@nospamplease.org.uk
>>says...
>>>
>>>three different employers.
>>
>>for three different employers too: the Father, the
>>Son, and the Holy Ghost!
>
>"Scratch that order for a 'My Boss is a Jewish Carpenter' bumpersticker.
>It should read 'My Bosses are a Psychopathic Mass Murderer, A Jewish
>Carpenter, And An Aural Statutory Rapist'!"
Hee hee!
Giggles Like a Girl
"leebertarian["@t]yahoo[dot.]com says...
>
>bonfils wrote:
>> On 07 aug 2007, someone posing as "Pod Brother" came to
>> alt.buddha.short.fat.guy and expostulated:
>>
>>> to the nasty realities and to tell the truth, I am not
>>> grief stricken, just sort of disgusted. Now I know
>>> why people run to cults and become religious fanatics.
>>> They get to the point where they say, "Hey, this person
>>> seems pretty confident in his bullshit...seems to be
>>> working for him and what the fuck have I got to lose?"
>>
>> cause yes, it's often painful. But actively seeking delusion doesn't
>> appeal to me.
>
>actively seeking delusion. So follow them instead, b/c their's is better.
>
>New & Improved, etc.
I'll be impressed when they offer warrantees.
Giggles Like a Girl
don...@nauticom.net says...
"If there's a regular paycheque in it, I'll
believe whatever you say."
Giggles Like a Girl
>
Going for more taglines, eh? :)
>After Sarte, belief is a trap for fools.
Is that so?
--
Giggles Like a Girl
"S&M is exciting because both parties are surrendering to
something much more raw and intense than a belief system
of inculcated and vicarious expectations." --Leebert
Giggles Like a Girl
>
>Giggles Like a Girl said:
>
>>
>> It can't be done that directly. First you have to find
>> that grain of doubt in your disbelief, then you have to
>> nurture it. It also helps if it's something that you
>> can't actually prove isn't true. Disbelief isn't usually
>> a matter of knowing that something is "dead wrong". It's
>> usually a matter of considering it highly improbable.
>> There's where you would stick the wedge in.
>
>"It's highly improbable that you are going to let me
>do it, so lets stick this wedge in."
>
>I used to call the avoidance manuver "pointy things."
>She because a mass of knees and elbows.
Well, a net is better than a wedge in that circumstance.
The opening scenes of "Zardoz" are quite instructive.
Giggles Like a Girl
says...
Indeed, insurers have reinsurance, too, causing
risk in one area to affect premiums in another
entirely different area.
bonfils
alt.buddha.short.fat.guy and expostulated:
> In article <Xns99864BDD49C...@212.242.40.170>,
> k...@bonfils.your.underwear.com says...
>>Why the heck would you respect bizarre behaviour like that?
>
> I respect the ability to do something difficult.
And that includes something difficult *and* stupid (and potentially harmful
to others)?
> Also, it could be a handy skill if the enemy ever
> hooks you up to a lie detector and gives you a shot
> of truth serum.
Okay. Got me there.
>>Okay, you may be more adept at playing tricks with your mind than I
>>am.
>
> I do consider it a playground. WTF, I'm not using it
> for anything important 90% of the time anyway. Ask
> anyone (especially T). :)
Playground? Woah. Yeah - I may be taking my brain much too seriously. Btw,
I'm in therapy at the moment, which is basically just a way of deliberately
messing with your own mind. But for a purpose - and hopefully bringing you
closer to reality.
>>But heck, it takes all my mental power to just get *rid* of old
>>delusions and accept facts. Even when reality is staring me right in
>>the face.
>
> Yeah, desire is a bitch.
>
>>But the idea of "hey, this is dead wrong. I want to believe in that!"
>>I can't imagine mustering the necessary strength to do such a thing.
>
> It can't be done that directly. First you have to find
> that grain of doubt in your disbelief, then you have to
> nurture it. It also helps if it's something that you
> can't actually prove isn't true. Disbelief isn't usually
> a matter of knowing that something is "dead wrong". It's
> usually a matter of considering it highly improbable.
> There's where you would stick the wedge in.
Ah. But to me, that would be a whole different kettle of fish.
Choosing betwen a number of different beliefs where one is just as
plausible as the other is just a matter of taste or something.
I can imagine someone skipping from one religion to another (most religions
being equally probable/improbable) - but I find it harder (like in
Sanford's original example) to imagine *consciously* taking the jump from
cool rational agnostic to fervent believer in something *totally* wacko -
like rastafarianism.
And - people *do* that. Which I find very interesting. So I hoped that was
what we were discussing - and you advocating - but it wasn't. Oh well.
>>Unless, of course, you don't fully believe it, but just play with the
>>idea - the way you pretend to live in the universe of a computer game,
>>even though you know it's make-believe. I wouldn't call that "belief"
>>though - as you're ready to snap out of it any second when the phone
>>rings.
>
> Heh, that would be more my style. If I join a sasquatch
> hunting, UFO chasing, spirit contacting group, I will
> merely suspend my commitment to calling those things
> "flakey" long enough to enjoy the thrill of hoping that I
> was wrong about one of them.
Ooh, flashback.
Remember the UFO poster above Fox Mulder's wall saying "I want to believe"?
I always wondered about that. You'd think Mulder *was* a believer, if
anyone was. But that poster suggests that he was actually struggling to
keep the faith...
> There's a third possibility, though. It could be that
> you neither disbelieve or believe fully, but find belief
> valuable enough that you choose to engage belief rather
> than disbelief.
>
> (I personally think that this is what a
> lot of modern, liberal Christians do. Likewise with
> gamblers who gamble just for the entertainment.)
Heh. Good analogy.
> Believer, non-believer, agnostic. Have we left anyone
> out?
Nope. We inslut all sorts...
--
bonfils
http://kim.bonfils.com
"Chicks are for fags."
-Ben, alt.buddha.short.fat.guy
To send me a massage, please remove your.underwear to reply.
Giggles Like a Girl
says...
>
>On 08 aug 2007, someone posing as "Giggles Like a Girl" came to
>alt.buddha.short.fat.guy and expostulated:
>
>> In article <Xns99864BDD49C...@212.242.40.170>,
>> k...@bonfils.your.underwear.com says...
>
>>>Why the heck would you respect bizarre behaviour like that?
>>
>> I respect the ability to do something difficult.
>
>And that includes something difficult *and* stupid (and potentially harmful
>to others)?
Sure, but in some cases that respect might be more like
one respects high voltage lines or volcanos.
>> I do consider it a playground. WTF, I'm not using it
>> for anything important 90% of the time anyway. Ask
>> anyone (especially T). :)
>
>Playground? Woah. Yeah - I may be taking my brain much too seriously. Btw,
>I'm in therapy at the moment, which is basically just a way of deliberately
>messing with your own mind. But for a purpose - and hopefully bringing you
>closer to reality.
Hey, I do hope that goes well for you. But I thought
the purpose of therapy these days was less metaphysical
than that; more like bringing you closer to "normal
function". (the actual phrase is on my lips but I can't
seem to spit it out, maybe Kimberly or someone knows
what I mean...?)
>>>But the idea of "hey, this is dead wrong. I want to believe in that!"
>>>I can't imagine mustering the necessary strength to do such a thing.
>>
>> It can't be done that directly. First you have to find
>> that grain of doubt in your disbelief, then you have to
>> nurture it. It also helps if it's something that you
>> can't actually prove isn't true. Disbelief isn't usually
>> a matter of knowing that something is "dead wrong". It's
>> usually a matter of considering it highly improbable.
>> There's where you would stick the wedge in.
>
>Ah. But to me, that would be a whole different kettle of fish.
>Choosing betwen a number of different beliefs where one is just as
>plausible as the other is just a matter of taste or something.
>I can imagine someone skipping from one religion to another (most
>religions being equally probable/improbable)
Heh, not exactly how *actual* religionists might see it.
> - but I find it harder (like in
>Sanford's original example) to imagine *consciously* taking the jump from
>cool rational agnostic to fervent believer in something *totally* wacko -
>like rastafarianism.
>And - people *do* that. Which I find very interesting. So I hoped that was
>what we were discussing - and you advocating - but it wasn't. Oh well.
Well, not exactly too far off topic. Maybe what appears
to be a conscious jump is in fact preceded by something
more like the gradual method I describe and only *seems*
to manifest as a sudden switch. I'd find it hard to
believe in the truly sudden extreme change myself.
(Barring God telling you to become a golf pro.)
>>>Unless, of course, you don't fully believe it, but just play with the
>>>idea - the way you pretend to live in the universe of a computer game,
>>>even though you know it's make-believe. I wouldn't call that "belief"
>>>though - as you're ready to snap out of it any second when the phone
>>>rings.
>>
>> Heh, that would be more my style. If I join a sasquatch
>> hunting, UFO chasing, spirit contacting group, I will
>> merely suspend my commitment to calling those things
>> "flakey" long enough to enjoy the thrill of hoping that I
>> was wrong about one of them.
>
>Ooh, flashback.
>Remember the UFO poster above Fox Mulder's wall saying "I want to believe"?
>I always wondered about that. You'd think Mulder *was* a believer, if
>anyone was. But that poster suggests that he was actually struggling to
>keep the faith...
Yeah, it struck me exactly like that too. Another possible
interpretation is that he was reminding himself to be
careful of what he believes because he knows that he's a
sucker for believing weird things.
Lee Rudolph
>Ah. But to me, that would be a whole different kettle of fish.
I read that (being over at the end of the line there, at the very
edge of the spectacles-enhanced part of my visual field, where all
kinds of fuzziness happens) as "a whole different kettle of faith".
Which I plan to steal.
Lee Rudolph
Benjamin
I definitely find myself inspired by people who believe rediculous
things. Sometimes I wonder if we've moved to a point where truth has
become so important we ignore myth and metaphor.
I've followed some paths hoping to suspend my disbelief enough to at
least claim belief, but it doesn't usually work. As much as I want to
believe in shape-shifting-reptilian-humanoids, it just doesn't work.
I can argue myself around it by thinking of the utility of belief. If I
believed in a God would it be useful? Would believing in faeries help
me in my daily life?
Mostly I just settle on beliefs about how the world should be. There
should be luxury derigibles. People should wear purple top hats. We
should cover our cities in domes to control the weather.
Capitalism makes us boring. I don't want the market to decide how we
live. I want our imaginations to do it.
Ben
Ned
"Benjamin" <eggplan...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:46bb2214$0$12166$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
>
>>> Believer, non-believer, agnostic. Have we left anyone
>>> out?
>>
>> Nope. We inslut all sorts...
>
> I definitely find myself inspired by people who believe rediculous
> things. Sometimes I wonder if we've moved to a point where truth
> has become so important we ignore myth and metaphor.
> I've followed some paths hoping to suspend my disbelief enough to
> at least claim belief, but it doesn't usually work. As much as I
> want to believe in shape-shifting-reptilian-humanoids, it just
> doesn't work.
> I can argue myself around it by thinking of the utility of belief.
> If I believed in a God would it be useful? Would believing in
> faeries help me in my daily life?
> Mostly I just settle on beliefs about how the world should be. There
> should be luxury derigibles. People should wear purple top hats.
> We should cover our cities in domes to control the weather.
> Capitalism makes us boring. I don't want the market to decide how
> we live. I want our imaginations to do it.
> Ben
>
A sweet rant. But that would be like saying 'I don't the want
the motion picture industry deciding what movies we see, I want
our imaginations to do it'. To deliver the luxury dirigibles and
purple top hats unfortunately requires the ungainly monster of
capitalism. At least for now. Gotta pay the piper if you want
to get rid of the rats.
Ned
Keynes
We are the rats. We are the pipple.
Some other guys drank all the ripple.
Let's make the world a better place.
Cause we've already f*cked up this place.
(Let's all go to the moon and escape the crowds.)
Kimberly
Hey, whatever happened to that absfg mission to Mars, anyway? I've got my
cribbage board and my froggy slippers all packed up and ready to go.
--Kimberly (who wishes she really could relocate off the planet, given the
way things are going here lately)
deelek Exterminate!
> On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 09:34:52 -0500, Keynes said:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >>"Benjamin" <eggplantonto...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
Hey Kimberly! How is your study? I am OK, I I I I I really really
would like to have a job and win the lottery hahha
deelek Exterminate!
> I definitely find myself inspired by people who believe rediculous
> things. Sometimes I wonder if we've moved to a point where truth has
> become so important we ignore myth and metaphor.
>
> I've followed some paths hoping to suspend my disbelief enough to at
> least claim belief, but it doesn't usually work. As much as I want to
> believe in shape-shifting-reptilian-humanoids, it just doesn't work.
>
> I can argue myself around it by thinking of the utility of belief. If I
> believed in a God would it be useful? Would believing in faeries help
> me in my daily life?
>
> Mostly I just settle on beliefs about how the world should be. There
> should be luxury derigibles. People should wear purple top hats. We
> should cover our cities in domes to control the weather.
>
> Capitalism makes us boring. I don't want the market to decide how we
> live. I want our imaginations to do it.
>
> Ben
There is something I have noticed so far, if I pay enough attention, I
will get an answer to whatever question I have in mind from someone
(either a person I met, a person I passed by, or on TV). It's usually
in a form of specific instruction or relevant answer, e.g. maybe in
the morning I have been thinking in my mind about something but don't
know how to proceed or wondered about something I didn't know, so then
maybe in an interview in the afternoon, the person would be telling me
something very specific that answered what I asked about in my mind
that morning. To recognise that I have been answered I must first
remember that I have asked it previously, secondly I must remember
that that person was answering me even though that person didn't
consciously know that I had asked that question. Sometimes if I asked
very specifically to have a thing, very very specific description,
then it usually would come eventually e.g. I asked for Snickers in my
mind, a month ago, I had nearly forgotten about it, then suddenly my
dad started to bring home a Snicker a day because where he worked
there was free Snickers for the workers. I want to win the lottery.
Ha ha.
Benjamin
Bleh. It just takes a bit of work. We just can't imagine doing it any
other way. The desire to make money is one of our more boring instincts.
Ned
"Kimberly" <kap...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:13bma65...@corp.supernews.com...
>
>>>> Mostly I just settle on beliefs about how the world should be. There
>>>> should be luxury derigibles. People should wear purple top hats.
>>>> We should cover our cities in domes to control the weather.
>>>> Capitalism makes us boring. I don't want the market to decide how
>>>> we live. I want our imaginations to do it.
>>>> Ben
>>>
>>> motion picture industry deciding what movies we see, I want our
>>> imaginations to do it'. To deliver the luxury dirigibles and
>>> purple top hats unfortunately requires the ungainly monster of
>>> capitalism. At least for now. Gotta pay the piper if you want
>>> to get rid of the rats.
>>> Ned
>>
>> We are the rats. We are the pipple.
>> Some other guys drank all the ripple.
>> Let's make the world a better place.
>> Cause we've already f*cked up this place.
>>
>> (Let's all go to the moon and escape the crowds.)
>
> Hey, whatever happened to that absfg mission to Mars, anyway? I've got
> my cribbage board and my froggy slippers all packed up and ready to go.
> --Kimberly (who wishes she really could relocate off the planet, given
> the way things are going here lately)
>
My 15,432nd Rant on Usenet
You know, every age has had its end-of-the-worlders - persons
absolutely convinced that the known world was imminently coming
to an end. This age is no exception, but what IS exceptional is
that the predominant and most emphatic group who believes this
are the scientists.
Perhaps science is the new religion - a claim strenuously rejected
by the scientists. Although the science of Physics has recently
postulated the existence of massive amounts of otherwise undetectable
substances of 'dark' matter and 'dark' energy (comprising 95+ percent
of the known universe!), and is entertaining a new paradigm - string
theory - which by their own admission is untestable. Untestable
theories are not matters of science, they are matters of faith.
Thus there appears to be a convergence, or morphing, of science
into religion.
And every religion known to mankind has had an 'end-time' which is
NEAR and at hand.
Previously science had claimed an end-time of four billion years
from now, when the sun burns out, or a billion or so years when the
sun goes nova, or a few hundred years, when Malthus claimed population
would out-strip resources. But now the religious nature of science
demands an imminent end-time, and scientists have fulfilled that need
with theories and measurements of global warming and climate change
that, they assure us, will guarantee our doom.
Ned
Giggles Like a Girl
We went and came back already. The trip was the best
part. Mars itself doesn't even have anywhere you can
get a latte yet.
>--Kimberly (who wishes she really could relocate off the planet, given the
>way things are going here lately)
No shite, tell me about it.
dt
Well put, sir.
I spent close to 30 years of my life expecting TEOTWAWKI just any day
now. Now that I've mellowed somewhat, I'm gonna be really pissed if it
happens.
DT
Wilson
> "Kimberly" <kap...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:13bma65...@corp.supernews.com...
>>
Global warming is the primary tenet of the new faith.
Everything (every single thing) that happens to the weather can
and is described as being caused by it. And to be skeptical of
it to be labeled a heretic.
Lines for burning at the stake to start on the right.
--
Wilson
"Caricature became simulacrum
sometime in the last decade, but the
old neurons still tickle in the familiar
way so WTF, pwn me one more time,
baby." -Giggles
Wilson
> doing it any other way. The desire to make money is one of
> our more boring instincts.
Yeah, where's the all powerful altruistic motivation today?
None to be found, unless you look at religion, non-profit
social organizations, and other worthless donations of time and
money.
Seriously, who's going to donate money or time to flying cars,
domed cities and luxury blimps? The blowback of righteous
indignation would be incredible. I mean, what about the
starving children?
Keynes
It's never the end of the world,
but it always is the end of the world as we know it.
Keynes
Correct. Start with the guys on the right.
Keynes
wrote:
And spending money is a universal talent.