Problem getting bread to brown with Miele H5240BP oven
tiger
I have just replaced a 12 year old Scholtes (French) oven with a new
expensive Miele. The old oven temperature had become erratic and it
was too expensive to repair. However I did make great bread with it.
I find with my new oven that I am unable to get the crust to go brown.
The instruction book for the oven says to bake bread at 160 to 180C
which seems very low, for 40 minutes which seemed very long. I tried
this and the bread came out a light biscuit colour. I then reverted
to my more traditional 220-240C and 30 - 25 minutes but it still comes
out an unattractive light biscuit shade. I have tried, fan,
conventional, combination and all kids of setting with no good
results. I have increase the time to 35 minutes and still no good -
the bread is overcooked but still a poor shade.
Any ideas?
Thanks
Dick Margulis
I'm going to begin with the presumption that you haven't changed
anything about the way you make bread--same flour, same formula, same
technique--and that the oven is the problem, as you say.
Can you describe the differences between the old oven and the new oven?
Material, fuel, BTU per hour rating, geometry, how you're loading it
(position in the oven, etc.)?
For example, is the old oven cast iron with black enamel and the new one
shiny stainless steel? Is the old oven wider, allowing more space around
the sides of your baking tiles for convection?
Also, have you calibrated the new oven with a thermometer, so that you
have some confidence that it is actually as hot as what you've set it for?
Just shooting in the dark here. Maybe something will trigger a thought.
John Andrews
Tiger,
It looks to me that the oven is not getting hot enough. My oven
has a special bread setting that gives the oven extra time to
get hot. Are you sure that the oven is heating to the
temperature that you think it is. Use an oven thermometer to
check it out. (But don't trust a cheap thermometer too much!)
Is there any way that you can get the vendor to check the
operation for you. This oven is very expensive and should work
correctly from the start, but sometimes they break right away.
There should be a warrenty on it for at least one year. One of
the vendors on the internet indicates there is a 2 year warrenty.
Browning occurs in part from the radiant energy from the oven
interior. If the temperature is OK, you might want to add a
pizza stone on the rack above the bread. I assume you are
baking on a stone to start with. If not, you might want to add
a pizza stone under the bread. The stones become radiators that
help the bread bake. They also take more time to get hot. It
might be worth while to verify the oven temperature using the
thermometer before you put the bread in to bake.
Are you using steam? I use a cast iron frying pan in the bottom
of the oven to create steam. The pan takes a while to heat up,
too. But it generates a lot of steam quickly without cooling
the oven too much.
Let us know what you find.
John Andrews, Knoxville, Tennessee
Dick Margulis
> tiger wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> I have just replaced a 12 year old Scholtes (French) oven with a new
>> expensive Miele. The old oven temperature had become erratic and it
>> was too expensive to repair. However I did make great bread with it.
>>
>
>
> It looks to me that the oven is not getting hot enough. My oven has a
> special bread setting that gives the oven extra time to get hot.
Tiger,
This reminds me of what I left out in my earlier list of questions, and
John makes a good point.
I asked what the old oven and new oven were constructed of. One of the
important considerations is how long you preheat the oven. The more
massive the oven body, the longer it takes to preheat, and if the newer
oven is the heavier of the two, that could be the only problem you're
having.
Dick
tiger
I am suspecting that it may be a temperatire problem, depsite that
fact that the Miele literature says that their ovens are very fast at
hitting their temperature and very accurate.
I did try to calibtrate it from abpout 130C to 200C and it appeard to
be about 5 degrees low- probably not enough to casue the probelm - but
as John sasy dont trust cheap thermometers and I think mine is a
probably a cheap one. I will get the shop to come out and check it
out. It does not go above 200C
I am still making bread the same way - I am sticking with plain white
yeast bread as a starting point. Both ovens are plack pyrolitc
interior. I am not using a bakign stone - but that spounds liek a good
investment any way - I thin I will look out for one.
Cheers
T
Dick Margulis
> I am not using a bakign stone - but that spounds liek a good
> investment any way - I thin I will look out for one.
>
>
I'm not sure what country you're in. In the US, we'd send you to Home
Depot to get some CHEAP unglazed clay tiles, rather than paying catalog
prices for a brand-name baking stone. The main consideration is that you
do not want to cover the entire surface of an oven shelf; you want an
inch or preferably two inches all around to assist with air circulation
(convection) in the oven.
I still think you may want to preheat the new oven longer than you did
the old one. See what happens when you preheat for an hour.
Boron Elgar
The temperature goal itself, as well as the pre-heat and thermal mass
of the oven may affect the loaves.
I had an adventure yesterday about an hour before I was to bake some
bread. I shattered the glass baffle sandwiched in between the inner
glass and outer door of my main oven (don't ask).
At that point, nervous about using the oven, I pre-heated my microwave
convection oven, which is quite decent size. Although it allows a heat
of up to 450 F, it never quite makes it and this was a bread that
needed a high heat. Additionally, the M/C oven loses a tremendous
amount of heat if opened. I'm a mister and the small oven would not
have been able to keep up with misting
The M/C oven has a turntable that is of a stone-like material, so I
plopped the loaf directly on it, but with parchment in between.
Still, I had to do something with the loaves, so I popped one in, a 2
pound loaf of whole wheat, rye, white, steel cut oats, corn meal and
enough seeds of various sorts to keep a canary happy for a week.
The loaf baked well enough, the slashes opened somewhat, but the
crust had that dull look, that one sometimes gets when a loaf is over
proofed. This loaf was not over proofed, though, as witness its twin
sister, that I decided to toss caution to the winds with, and fired up
the regular oven and to bake.
Photos here, as Multi-Grain Two Ovens
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25648800@N04/
The bread, by the way, is mighty fine. Sourdough based, with two
separate preferments over 24 hours, before I mixed the final dough,
and I ended it with a long, cool proof in the fridge. Since this had
so much whole wheat and rye, I also added in a bit of vital wheat
gluten and ascorbic acid. My, oh, my, did the dough fly with that.
Boron
Barry Harmon
news:U6GdncUjl48W3lDV...@supernews.com:
This sounds like it's not a matter of a few degrees, but of 30-50C, which
would prevent the Maillard reaction from taking place. This is somthing
for the factory to check out.
The home fix is to reorient the control knob, but this works only for a
small error. Since you have the factory on the hook, I wouldn't bother
with this.
Barry
Nyssa
Lovely loaves, Boron!
Now for the burning questions:
What is your recipe for the onion-filled rolls?
and
Whatever did you make with that bowl of Vanilla-
Butter Pecan-Chocolate Chip batter? And whatever
it was, may I please have the recipe for that
too? <grin>
It's pictures like that that make me wish
I weren't trying to lose another eleven
pounds! <sigh> Thank goodness the pictures
don't have calories.
Nyssa, who has been sticking to occasional
batches of sandwich buns or whole wheat bread
lately
Boron Elgar
wrote:
>Boron Elgar wrote:
>
>> Photos here, as Multi-Grain Two Ovens
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/25648800@N04/
>>
>> The bread, by the way, is mighty fine. Sourdough based, with two
>> separate preferments over 24 hours, before I mixed the final dough,
>> and I ended it with a long, cool proof in the fridge. Since this had
>> so much whole wheat and rye, I also added in a bit of vital wheat
>> gluten and ascorbic acid. My, oh, my, did the dough fly with that.
>>
>> Boron
>
>Lovely loaves, Boron!
>
>Now for the burning questions:
>
>What is your recipe for the onion-filled rolls?
Use any standard brioche dough -with lots of eggs and butter. Then you
can use this KA recipe as a guide. My dough recipe is much more deadly
and much richer than theirs, but the filling ideas and procedure for
folding are fine to follow.
http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/RecipeDisplay?RID=R195
>and
>
>Whatever did you make with that bowl of Vanilla-
>Butter Pecan-Chocolate Chip batter? And whatever
>it was, may I please have the recipe for that
>too? <grin>
Ahh..that was ice cream. A basic custard based vanilla ice cream -
again, lots of eggs and this time, cream, instead of butter, then I
just added in pecans toasted in a bit of butter and brown sugar and
semi-sweet chocolate chips. What you saw was my ice cream maker.
I do not have my recipe here, but this isn't too far from it. You can
but the egg yolks down a couple and vary the ratio of half & half to
cream any way you like. The vanilla bean is sacred, though.
>
>It's pictures like that that make me wish
>I weren't trying to lose another eleven
>pounds! <sigh> Thank goodness the pictures
>don't have calories.
I have just about gotten my weight down where I want it. I now do a
lot of exercise to keep it there, though. Still, my idea has always
been to keep up the caloric output enough so that I can eat just about
anything - in moderation. If the kids have ice cream, I have a couple
of spoons, no more. In case of a rich dough like the onion rolls, I
will have half of one. It wasn't fun, but I had really packed on the
big pounds and losing it all was not enjoyable. Looking back on it,
having lost it and wearing size 8s again, I am happy.
Dieting is so difficult and recidivism so rampant, that a person just
has to find whatever works best for him/herself. It sucks.
>Nyssa, who has been sticking to occasional
>batches of sandwich buns or whole wheat bread
>lately
Bread is the easy part. Fill it with whole grains, seeds and sourdough
starter and it can be a really nice part of a healthy diet - again -
in moderation.
And thank you for all the kind words. I really appreciate them.
Boron
Nyssa
You're most welcome. :)
Yes, the losing is extremely difficult, if done
right, and all to easy to gain back. I've gone
through the cycle many times.
Lucky you a size 8! My normal size is a 12, which
I'll be back to after those 11 remaining pounds
go bye-bye, probably by the end of the year at
the rate I'm losing it.
Portion control is a BIG part of keeping it off.
And ice cream is my main nemesis. A serving
size is a quart, right? lol Actually I found
something new in the store a couple of weeks
ago: tiny Haagen Daz cartons that contain about
a half cup each. They were on sale, so I snagged
five of 'em and am proud to say I haven't opened
one yet, but they are there as a special treat
whenever I feel I've earned the right to indulge.
ObBread: I've been using the KA hamburger bun
recipe for sandwich buns (and freezing them),
and have found that adding a tablespoon and a
half of the KA pizza dough flavor to them
instead of the dried onions makes a very nice
change. Terrific with turkey sandwiches!
Nyssa, who limits the sandwiches to one or two
a week for now
Reunite Gondwanaland (Mary Shafer)
<boron...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I had an adventure yesterday about an hour before I was to bake some
> bread. I shattered the glass baffle sandwiched in between the inner
> glass and outer door of my main oven (don't ask).
That's like telling water to run uphill. I'm intrigued because you
broke the glass baffle, but not the other glass in the door. That
sounds like a real challenge. Not that I have any doubts about your
ability to rise to a challenge, of course.
Per your request, I won't ask. However, I will beg. Please tell us
more of the details.
Mary "Pretty please?"
--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer
We didn't just do weird stuff at Dryden, we wrote reports about it.
reunite....@gmail.com or mil...@qnet.com
Visit my blog at http://thedigitalknitter.blogspot.com/
Boron Elgar
Shafer)" <reunite....@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 14:13:55 -0400, Boron Elgar
><boron...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I had an adventure yesterday about an hour before I was to bake some
>> bread. I shattered the glass baffle sandwiched in between the inner
>> glass and outer door of my main oven (don't ask).
>
>That's like telling water to run uphill. I'm intrigued because you
>broke the glass baffle, but not the other glass in the door. That
>sounds like a real challenge. Not that I have any doubts about your
>ability to rise to a challenge, of course.
>
>Per your request, I won't ask. However, I will beg. Please tell us
>more of the details.
>
>Mary "Pretty please?"
I had a 10" tri-clad frying pan (part of the Kirkland set), a hefty
little mother, filled with this tomato tartin, ready to be baked in
the oven.
I slid it in the oven, then realized I had forgotten to add the fresh
thyme and went to remove the pan out immediately and it started to
wobble, as I was holding it left-handed and only by the handle, with
no support on the opposite side. Not a good idea as I am a rightie
with arthritis. The pan and ingredients were much heavier than I could
hold that way.
I am way too smart to drop the pan on the glass, so I didn't. I
lowered it, oh, perhaps a tad too fast, onto the metal part of the
door, about half way between the inner glass and the rim of the door.
Everything seemed intact, including the puff pastry on top of all the
ingredients. I went to shut the oven door and when it was just about
closed, the baffle shattered (or had shattered and retained itself
until moved) and spewed tempered glass chunks out the bottom door
vents.
$32 with shipping. The part will be here in a few days.
And my goodness, can that door get super clean when it is removed from
the range and tidied up in the corners when the rims are off and where
the self-clean doesn't reach.
Although it looked like hell, the tomato tart was very, very tasty,
especially so when served with a nice creamy piece of chevre.
Boron
Espressopithecus
79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com>, tim.r...@gmail.com says...
everything from light sandwich bread to heavy sourdough. At the Miele
baking course I took, the instructor recommended using "Intensive Bake"
setting, starting at 400F and reducing to 350F after 15 minutes. I find
browns the crust very well for loaves as small as ~ 390 grams and as
large as 1000 grams. I'd reduce it a little for larger loaves.
I baked two 390 gram boules that way this morning. Put the loaves into
a cold oven set to 400F, reduced it to 350F after 15 minutes, and baked
an additional 15 minutes. They came out perfect.
Java
flitterbit
beautiful of the two. The onion-filled buns look scrumptious! ;~D
Boron Elgar
wrote:
>Boron Elgar wrote:
>> Photos here, as Multi-Grain Two Ovens
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/25648800@N04/
>>
>> The bread, by the way, is mighty fine. Sourdough based, with two
>> separate preferments over 24 hours, before I mixed the final dough,
>> and I ended it with a long, cool proof in the fridge. Since this had
>> so much whole wheat and rye, I also added in a bit of vital wheat
>> gluten and ascorbic acid. My, oh, my, did the dough fly with that.
>>
>> Boron
> >
> >
>Those are gorgeous loaves, albeit the one with the sheen is most
>beautiful of the two. The onion-filled buns look scrumptious! ;~D
Thank you very much.
I've caught up on baking for awhile, now. I have a full shelf of
breads and rolls in the freezer and don't have to bake for at least
2-3 weeks. Doesn't mean I won't bake...just that I don't have to...
Boron
Mary Fisher
"Boron Elgar" <boron...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1h72e4ljlbip5gc25...@4ax.com...
>
>
> Thank you very much.
>
> I've caught up on baking for awhile, now. I have a full shelf of
> breads and rolls in the freezer and don't have to bake for at least
> 2-3 weeks. Doesn't mean I won't bake...just that I don't have to...
>
> Boron
Which is you at the wedding?
Mary
Boron Elgar
I'm in the center of the thumbnail on the opening Flickr page.
Boron
Mary Fisher
"Boron Elgar" <boron...@hootmail.com> wrote in message
news:5bj2e4dfov12664g4...@4ax.com...
>>
>>Which is you at the wedding?
>>
>>Mary
>>
> I'm in the center of the thumbnail on the opening Flickr page.
I can only go strzight to the bread :-(
Mary
>
> Boron
Boron Elgar
This should get you to the main page. The full folder's "sets" of
photos are shown on the right hand side.