I'm taking over
Kay
Paul Mesken
wrote:
>Everybody out!
Hehe, this party is going down to the cream (I believe was the
expression :-)
Kay
Everyone else, SCRAM!
Paul Mesken wrote in message <37fed449...@news.euronet.nl>...
Kay
Me and Paul
OK, Stephen can stay.
Everyone else BEAT IT!
Stephen Morgana wrote in message <7tm81m$io1$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
|In article <BhgL3.1608$bj6....@news4.giganews.com>,
| "Kay" <K...@theriver.com> wrote:
|> Everybody out!
|>
|>
|
|Uhm... it seems as though everyone already left anyways.
|
|--
|Stephen
|http://homepages.go.com/~scm2000
|
|
|Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
|Before you buy.
Stephen Morgana
Lauri.L.
A free Usenet group - where as your friend Alison said
- one can write anything one likes.
She may jump when she reads your claim
- lauri
--
//www.saunalahti.fi/~laurleva/
The fact that I abuse my office address does not
imply that my employer agrees with or is aware of
my opinions expressed here
Kay
Yes, Alison *is* my friend, as much as anyone could claim to actually be a
friend in Usenet. Is that a problem with you? She may jump. I may jump. You
may jump. You can stay.
Everyone else - GET LOST!
Lauri.L. wrote in message <7tntue$lcf$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
John Haber
>Everybody out!
Don't be silly. This is my forum. You, Alison, everyone goes. I'm
just talking to myself (an old raf tradition, come to think of it).
John
John Haber
Someone sent a message to add us to a list of art groups (it showed up
on deja-news) - that might be fun - maybe we will get some new guys
with some zip in them
...... shall we talk aort (New York rubbing off here).
Gotta dash ... i'm cookin up a fish stew and he went to get me more
wine ;-) - see ya tomorrow !!!
Alison
John Haber
>Everybody out!
John
Who is Kaye, John ???????
This is MY forum ... and I think I will take over your apartment too
while i am at it. *You* go, from both ... fed up listening to you
talking to yourself anyway ;-) the rest can stay.
Alison
John Haber
painting ... damn thing IS a butcher's apron - I knew Burning Chrome
was smart !
Kay
John Haber wrote in message <37ffc861...@news.onepine.com>...
|Kaye:
|>Everybody out!
|
|Don't be silly. This is my forum. You, Alison, everyone goes. I'm
|just talking to myself (an old raf tradition, come to think of it).
|
|John
Getting militant now, John?
Kay
John Haber wrote in message <37ffcaff...@news.onepine.com>...
|hee hee !!!!!! get back, bitch !
(Why do I think Alison is writing this at John's computer?)
|Someone sent a message to add us to a list of art groups (it showed up
|on deja-news) - that might be fun - maybe we will get some new guys
|with some zip in them
Or lead in their pencils...
| ...... shall we talk aort (New York rubbing off here).
Making fun of their funny accent? I like the way some say "terlet" for
"toilet"
|Gotta dash ... i'm cookin up a fish stew and he went to get me more
|wine ;-) - see ya tomorrow !!!
|Alison
Fish stew, YUCK!
Kay
John Haber wrote in message <38009f74...@news.onepine.com>...
|and another thing that has to go from John's apartment is Mattison's
|painting ... damn thing IS a butcher's apron - I knew Burning Chrome
|was smart !
Hi Alison,
How about a critique of her work. I really like looking at the paint
surface which is always hard to come through on the net. What is it like?
Kay
Kay
I'm not a good administrator, therefore I abdicate my throne. I did notice
that my hostile takeover served it's purpose which was to draw out a few
lurkers.
Everyone is welcome. Even lurkers.
I forgot which of the alumni parties are on whatever sides, which is fine
with me. I glanced at Dan's new work. Excellent. Nice paint surface.
Thick. My cup of tea.
Art anyone?
Kay
"Do you know what he needs? Two or three shock treatments,"
Mary George said. "Get that artist business right out of his head once
and for all." (from "An Enduring Chill" by Flannery O'Connor)
John Haber
>(Why do I think Alison is writing this at John's computer?)
and in his cupboards .... now she just found out his clothes fit her
too ! Nothing is sacred here now.
>Making fun of their funny accent? I like the way some say "terlet" for
"toilet"
Funny bunch - someone told them that the Virgin Mary had shit on her
and they all dashed down to take a peek. Two hour long queue and then
when we got there it was almost impossible to see the works.
>Fish stew, YUCK!
A type of bouillabaisse actually - quite delicious. She can stay !
john
Lauri Levanto
You got me really fooled, I took it seriously.
Only last night I realized that this was a parody.
thans for a good joke
- lauri
John Haber
some of your posts, Kay.
Firstly: glad you dethroned ... I always get a crick in my neck
looking up ;-).
Secondly: Mattison's work. In all honesty, if I was sure that
Mattison was working and would have progressed in the last five years,
then I would say this painting had some potential. Unfortunately I
don't even think she paints anymore. It is alarming to think that it
hung in a gallery here in New York, even though John says the gallery
was minor and that not many people went to the exhibition. It reminds
me of some of the work that I used to do before I started studying
Fine Art - deliberately expressive and splashy but with no sense of
colour and poor use of paint. The surface texture is very brutal -
paint has been applied without concern so that colours mix on the
brush - dirty muddy green stuff - she slashes at the canvas just as
she writes - random and incohherent. John says he likes it because of
its naivety and he seems to be able to see something in it that I
can't ! He is too considerate to ever be an art critic. The work does
look much better on screen than it does in reality though we looked at
her website for the new work she said she had posted and could only
find old stuff - which is a shame.
So, Kay, what are you up to these days (as if i didn't know) ........
Best, Alison.
PS John says you have a grandmother's voice ...hee hee .... I guess he
means wise !!!!!!!!!
John Haber
I don't think I have a hope of reclaiming anything in my apartment. I
hope at least she keeps scrubbing the tiles before she leaves.
jh
Kay
Lauri Levanto wrote in message <380190...@nokia.com>...
Kay
John Haber wrote in message <3801d5af...@news.onepine.com>...
Tlhanks for the critique. Also, I shall kick John's ass for that last
remark!
Kay
Kay
Tinman may stay since no one else has taken over yet.
Kay
Keith O'Connor wrote in message <38052740...@home.com>...
|It has been a hard week and I realy needed a
|surprise laugh.
|A fantastic post!
|
|_______tinman end_____________
|
|Kay wrote:
|>
|> Everybody out!
John Haber
the abdicator in case the masses revolt .... talking of revolting
masses, where is our friend Marilyn ?
Paul Mesken
wrote:
>Kay: the trouble with taking the throne is that no one dares follow
>the abdicator in case the masses revolt .... talking of revolting
>masses, where is our friend Marilyn ?
I fear I scared her off ;-)
Ah, I'll be off, the gesso's dry again, 5 layers down, 15 to go :-)
Kay
Kay
John Haber wrote in message <3805c965...@news.onepine.com>...
|Kay: the trouble with taking the throne is that no one dares follow
|the abdicator in case the masses revolt .... talking of revolting
|masses, where is our friend Marilyn ?
Braiding her armpit hair.
John Haber
>I fear I scared her off ;-)
She is easily scared.
>Ah, I'll be off, the gesso's dry again, 5 layers down, 15 to go :-)
Really ? I thought I was the only one who did that. I have to have a
completely imporous surface to work on so prime it for days. In
between I post on Usenet !! Is your computer in the studio, Paul ? It
can be such a distraction but also a diversion from hours and hours of
painting. Just curious to see how other people work.... and dying to
see your work - I doubt it will be nasty paintings of cadets blowing
trumpets and girls picking flowers eh ;-)
John and i were just laughing at Marilyn's silly post on raf ...
telling me that *cool* people have a life away from the computer
!!!!! Here I am in New York City spending hours and hours in art
museums and exploring the city and at the same time have a whole body
of work to take back with me (having now trashed john's apartment).
Thats what I call a *life* !
Ta ta for now !
A
John Haber
>Braiding her armpit hair.
or ironing her pleats
Paul Mesken
wrote:
>
>
>>I fear I scared her off ;-)
>
>She is easily scared.
>
>>Ah, I'll be off, the gesso's dry again, 5 layers down, 15 to go :-)
>
>Really ? I thought I was the only one who did that. I have to have a
>completely imporous surface to work on so prime it for days. In
>between I post on Usenet !! Is your computer in the studio, Paul ? It
>can be such a distraction but also a diversion from hours and hours of
>painting. Just curious to see how other people work.... and dying to
>see your work - I doubt it will be nasty paintings of cadets blowing
>trumpets and girls picking flowers eh ;-)
>
Okay, you asked for it ;-)
Studio is a big word :-) perhaps I'm able to buy one when I start
selling work (I hope to do this next year). I hope to enter the ranks
of professional artists (making money with it) and am now working on a
series of 50 paintings (I hope :-) which are executed on _big_ mdf
boards (all are 5 feet high, 1.5 meters). I always worked on prepared
canvas and linen (and that bloody paper stuff which is only good for
some oil sketches) and am now doing the gesso experience which is
great since I now have control over my ground.
The mdf boards must be sandpapered thoroughly (the surface but also
the sharp edges must be rounded) and it needs quite some gesso both
because of the hazard of "outgassing" (which I think is somewhat
overexaggerated, we nowadays have european norms for them) and I just
want "white white". It's quite some work but it's also fun.
I'm trying out all kinds of different gesso (the real (rabbit skin and
chalk) thing will come next week, I've done some now with different
brands of acrylic gesso's). Doing it with a brush rather than a roller
(the brush is better, I use the roller for the few layers on the
back). The same goes for mediums, some copal and amber is on its way
to me (baptism of fire :-) I'll hope Garrett's copal medium is good
stuff for the amber is *darn* expensive and I don't want to spend more
than a 100-150 U$ on each painting.
The funny thing is that I also accidentaly got a jar of Daler Rowney's
black gesso (imagine my surprise when I opened it :-) The first three
boards have now black backs (I only do 3-4 layers on the back). So
when I end up as a big time artist you can say why there are three old
works that have black backs :-)
I don't do cadets with trumpets and girls picking flowers :-) and
although I'm working figurative like Chris I have quite a different
style. Actually, quite some are somewhat obscene (waddaya expect with
stories like the ones I sent :-) People always told me I should be
working as a painter or cartoonist but only now I believe I've
acquired enough skill to be able to sell (I still think I've a lot to
learn but it has become acceptable to my eyes now).
I work in layers (although I've also done some alla prima but that
just ain't my style of work). Typically setting up the sketch, the
grissaile (I almost always use burnt umber for this), a tone binding
layer in which the big areas are bound by a single semi transparant
color and then it becomes a chaotic applying of layers :-)
A friend visited me after spending a year in Africa and went through
my recent work. I'm doing quite realistic work (getting all the
shadows, textures, likeness and anatomy right) and work that tends to
have a more "manga" quality while keeping it very realistic regarding
shading, etc. (certain american comic artists like Bisley do this).
In this type of work I focus (which I always did) on more expression
by more emphasized postures and facial expressions and having anatomy,
colors, shading, shapes, etc support this instead of restricting it.
So, in a way I sacrifice a bit of realism to get a stronger expression
of the whole. It's quite a subtle balance not to overdo it and get
lost in total cartoon stuff.
He told me that should be the work I should be focusing on and that he
was sure it would sell like hell (especially in Rotterdam). Unlike me,
he actually goes places and knows about what's hot and what not in the
"scene" :-) He showed me some of my bizarre work which would receive a
warm welcome which made me happy coz that's the kind of designs I'm
the best at :-)
He also told me to do 50 of them so now I'm working on 50 of em. It's
the kind of "project" which I needed to really get started since I'm
always in doubt which sort of work I should be doing and what's proper
and not (so I was always somewhat inhibited to really work on my
"finer" works of art). I've turned 30 now and believe I shouldn't be
endlessly producing sketches and studies until I'm just as good as
Sheppard, Vargas, Vallejo or Olivia before I "come out", it's time for
action now. Only by producing the real thing I can really move
forward.
I've also taken a look at what's sold at galleries instead of
constantly comparing my work with the great masters (which are mostly
twice as old as I am :-) and believe I can do better (oh! what
unexpected arrogance ;-) than the majority of it which gives me the
confidence I need to embark on a great project like this.
The individual paintings are all different, some in hard and bright
colors and more manga like, some more realistic with complex
backgrounds, sunset light, wet streets etc. Some funny, romantic,
melancholistic, sexy, surrealistic ,sadistical or plainly perverted
and combinations :-) But they're all about one girl on roller skates,
in one case gracefully whirling around, clumsily stumbling, dancing,
standing, sitting, etc. It's always one of four girls and always
wearing roller skates which are of many different types (you won't
believe my imagination (and perversion) on this point ;-) I don't
think this has been done before (roller skate fetishist will
absolutely love it :-) , I've done quite some studies to get the
typical body postures in this case (especially videos of roller derby
helped a lot).
I reckon the first ones will go wrong but I will take pictures of em
all and when the project is right on course I will send some to my
(_still_ non existing) homepage for you all to scrutinize. If I'm
really confident about my skills I will ask Deli what he thinks of it
:-)
Paul Mesken
wrote:
>
>Paul Mesken wrote in message <3805f9ab...@news.euronet.nl>...
>|On Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:17:05 GMT, jha...@haberarts.com (John Haber)
>|wrote:
>|
>|>Kay: the trouble with taking the throne is that no one dares follow
>|>the abdicator in case the masses revolt .... talking of revolting
>|>masses, where is our friend Marilyn ?
>|
>|I fear I scared her off ;-)
>|
>|Ah, I'll be off, the gesso's dry again, 5 layers down, 15 to go :-)
>|
>
>Ahh, an impasto freak? Me too.
>Kay
Impasto? The first try outs might have looked like that (I didn't add
enough water) but now I'm perfectly capable to make a smooth and flat
finish ;-)
Erik A. Mattila
I did some serious experiements with grounds once, and one that might
interest you is a simulated 'ivory' surface.' Very hard, like ivory. It
was a pretty basic mixture of slaked plaster and rabbit hyde, but instead
of sanding you burnished the surface between layers. I can't remember now
what I used for burnishing -- it was something like piece of polished
brass (which would probably leave undesired marks) or steel. You can make
all the slaked plaster of Paris you want by simply putting some PofP in a
bucket of water, (about 20% PofP by volume) and letting it sit for three
or four days. This replaces the chemical water in the calcium carbonate,
so it won't 'set' like PofP does. Anyway, it was quite successful. Each
coat was applied thinly, and allowed to dry thoroughly, then burnished.
After about 4 layers, that 'ivory' surface was pretty certifyable. I used
masonite as a substrate. The surface also took a light stain of oils
remarkably well. It was really a nice surface to paint on. As I recall,
I also did some with Elmers glue in the mix. It worked too, but the
drying time between layers increased by about 50%. Acrylic resin may be a
little faster.
Erik
Kay
Paul Mesken wrote in message <380bc500...@news.euronet.nl>...
:On Sun, 17 Oct 1999 12:33:25 GMT, jha...@haberarts.com (John Haber)
:wrote:
:
:>One thing though - I sincerely hope you wear a mask when sanding the
:>mdf ? I use that board all the time and most places refuse to cut it
:>for me. In the USA it is illegal.
:>
:Well, there's been some controversy about mdf in the UK. The store I
:buy the mdf at does however cut it (I haven't heard of any store that
:doesn't cut it here, there's no concern here at all about mdf). We do
:have those european norms nowadays (class A and class B mdf concerning
:the amount of formaldehyde used)
:
:But for sanding, I did have all the windows opened but didn't wear a
:mask. The thing is... well, I hardly eat any fibres (vegetables and
:such), I'm a real meat eater. This reflects on the consistence of
:the... errrr... you know "George and Gilbert" stuff. Ahem. But for
:some days now... well... they're floaters! (blush) Must be the mdf
:dust I breathed in, they just *pop* out. They've never *popped* out
:before and maintained their shape! Meat eaters like me squeeze it out,
:like paint from a tube, buttery and.... well...
:
:Guess I should be wearing a mask although it does save me some toilet
:paper... ah well :-)
Paul, you are PRICELESS, simply PRICELESS!
Thanks :-)
Kay
Paul Mesken
<wq...@victoria.tc.ca> wrote:
>
>I heard that there was a price on his head in the Netherlands
>and if caught he will have to participate in DAG 8 just to
>prove that he is really a painter.
>
Ah! That wouldn't pose any problem. I've an old #16 flat bristle with
which I do a lot of tricks (It's completely battered from falling on
the ground and it's no longer a true flat :-) Stuff like drummers
normally do with their sticks (quickly twisting it between fingers in
multiple ways, rotating in air, etc.).
Everyone seeing me doing this will immediately be of the opinion that
I'm the greatest master alive ;-)
[ dark voice ]
"Only a master of evil, Brush Of Steel...."
Alison A Raimes
<usu...@euronet.nl> writes
>Well, there's been some controversy about mdf in the UK. The store I
>buy the mdf at does however cut it (I haven't heard of any store that
>doesn't cut it here, there's no concern here at all about mdf). We do
>have those european norms nowadays (class A and class B mdf concerning
>the amount of formaldehyde used)
>
>But for sanding, I did have all the windows opened but didn't wear a
>mask. The thing is... well, I hardly eat any fibres (vegetables and
>such), I'm a real meat eater. This reflects on the consistence of
>the... errrr... you know "George and Gilbert" stuff. Ahem. But for
>some days now... well... they're floaters! (blush) Must be the mdf
>dust I breathed in, they just *pop* out. They've never *popped* out
>before and maintained their shape! Meat eaters like me squeeze it out,
>like paint from a tube, buttery and.... well...
>
>Guess I should be wearing a mask although it does save me some toilet
>paper... ah well :-)
>
Hee hee ..... ok, let's talk bowel movements, I was bored with blow jobs
... speaking of which, did I hear Marilyn plopping in on us ?
Paul: PLEASE wear a mask ... take it from someone who has no lining on
her lungs because she didn't.
Cheers !
--
Alison
Paul Mesken
Well, okay, although it'll be hard doing my 20-30 cigarettes a day
wearing one :-)
BTW do you notice how all smoking right handed artists hold their
cigarettes in the left hand?
Paul Mesken
<wq...@victoria.tc.ca> wrote:
>
>Wow!
>I'm calling the techies to install my satellite dish.
>Paul Mesken the Master Paint Brush Twirller.
>
Yes, people are actually paying me to see me do it ;-)
Alison A Raimes
<emat...@tomatoweb.com> writes
>But if you want to burnish panels that are 5 feet high, you better get a large
>tool.
Let us all know about your tool extension, Paul .... dying to know if
this is really the way to burnish panels ;-)
Alison A Raimes
<usu...@euronet.nl> writes
>>
>Well, okay, although it'll be hard doing my 20-30 cigarettes a day
>wearing one :-)
Your a lost cause !!!! Well if its any consolation I actually lost the
lining to my lungs when I was 17 - I just like to blame the mdf. Parents
went away for the weekend and left four teenagers alone in the house
(which was three stories high, had twelve bedrooms, crystal chandeliers,
oak panelled walls and a tennis court on the lower lawn to which you
descended from the top lawn by a slope ideal for tobogganing down).
Incidentally we were, as children, forbidden ever to walk on those lawns
so NEVER went down it on a sledge. Parents away - you guessed it - party
time ! and nothing like a midnight drunken sledge race in T-shirts eh ?
and nothing like pleurisy to pay for the experience !! Hence the no
lining on the lungs .... feel better ?????
>
>BTW do you notice how all smoking right handed artists hold their
>cigarettes in the left hand?
Which hand do you use to jerk off with ;-)
Alison A Raimes
<usu...@euronet.nl> writes
>>
>Okay, you asked for it ;-)
>
>Studio is a big word :-) perhaps I'm able to buy one when I start
>selling work (I hope to do this next year). I hope to enter the ranks
>of professional artists (making money with it) and am now working on a
>series of 50 paintings (I hope :-) which are executed on _big_ mdf
>boards (all are 5 feet high, 1.5 meters).
Well, its a big step you are taking, Paul, but you sound ready. No doubt
you have given it a lot of thought and considered the consequences and
how it will affect you. Do you have a lot of artist friends who are
working professionally ? My own advise to you, which you can do what you
want with ;-), is to treat it just as you would any other business - or
sink. You need to start off with working capital and have cash flow
forecasts and a business plan which will at least give you an idea of
the worst scenario. Its almost impossible to survive without some other
means of income - try cleaning toilets, its easy work and you can be
working all the time you clean without your head getting in a twist.
On top of that you have to have absolute confidence in yourself and be
ready for the times when you will inevitably lose it. While the buzz of
selling and the boost of people telling you that your work is
*beautiful*, or whatever, it doesn't pay the bills - a mound of debts is
one of the most depressing anti-art weapons known.
Last year I was working in a 18,000 pounds a year job as a receptionist
for some Sir somebody or other when I decided to finally the plunge.
Going daily to a job I detested and being constantly turned down for a
mortgage as a bad risk ;-) it seemed ridiculous to continue doing
something that drained me - I wasn't making art - a few images, but not
art. They were shocked when I left - isn't everyone supposed to want a
well paid secure job ?
My studio costs 3,000 pounds per year plus heating .. and of course I
pay rent on a room in South London which costs me an additional 3,000
per year. The studio group is very active in London and regular agents
scouting for artists is frequent (for which you need to be in your
studio and have work available to show to them). Then there are
materials to buy as well as the money needed to promote the work,
telephone, computer and all the other peripheral costs. The co-op
gallery that I am part of has certainly introduced me to a whole range
of artists and exposed me to regular buyers and even agents. The rent is
just under 1,000 per year and in the last six months (its taken six
months of the last year to get a body of work together) I sold around
1,500 pounds worth of small works there. Now the winter is coming and
who knows if there will be any sales until Xmas .... certainly don't
expect any in Jan/Feb. Last year I had two solo shows and three group
shows and a small solo opening this Sunday - total sales from those
shows around 2,300 pounds to date. I seem to have been going full blast
all summer and yet haven't made enough money to even come close to
breaking even as the year ends... in fact I went through the last 10,000
pounds from the money my father left me when he died.
Sounds grim ? That's the worst side of it and to me the least important.
What I have had is the time and focus to *really* work. The guts work
that I talk about. Like you, its a matter of getting a body of work
together, increasing your confidence, having faith in what you are doing
and the balls to go out and do it. Artists should be able to make a
living like anyone else but they have to be prepared to put in the same
energy and meet the same pitfalls as any other business person.
Good Luck !
Paul Mesken
<ali...@address.in.signature> wrote:
>In article <380c7d8c...@news.euronet.nl>, Paul Mesken
><usu...@euronet.nl> writes
>
>>>
>>Well, okay, although it'll be hard doing my 20-30 cigarettes a day
>>wearing one :-)
>
>Your a lost cause !!!! Well if its any consolation I actually lost the
>lining to my lungs when I was 17 - I just like to blame the mdf. Parents
>went away for the weekend and left four teenagers alone in the house
>(which was three stories high, had twelve bedrooms, crystal chandeliers,
>oak panelled walls and a tennis court on the lower lawn to which you
>descended from the top lawn by a slope ideal for tobogganing down).
>Incidentally we were, as children, forbidden ever to walk on those lawns
>so NEVER went down it on a sledge. Parents away - you guessed it - party
>time ! and nothing like a midnight drunken sledge race in T-shirts eh ?
>and nothing like pleurisy to pay for the experience !! Hence the no
>lining on the lungs .... feel better ?????
Oh much better :-)
>>BTW do you notice how all smoking right handed artists hold their
>>cigarettes in the left hand?
>
>Which hand do you use to jerk off with ;-)
Actually, this is also my left hand. Very convenient to paint with the
right and jack off with the left at the same time (or smoking with it
afterwards) ;-) (really, I used to be left handed but very early on I
was taught to use my right hand for writing, I still do a whole lot
with my left hand which is also capable of writing and drawing,
although not as well as my better trained right hand)
Paul Mesken
<ali...@address.in.signature> wrote:
>In article <380a3e38...@news.euronet.nl>, Paul Mesken
><usu...@euronet.nl> writes
>
>>>
>>Okay, you asked for it ;-)
>>
>>Studio is a big word :-) perhaps I'm able to buy one when I start
>>selling work (I hope to do this next year). I hope to enter the ranks
>>of professional artists (making money with it) and am now working on a
>>series of 50 paintings (I hope :-) which are executed on _big_ mdf
>>boards (all are 5 feet high, 1.5 meters).
>
>
>Well, its a big step you are taking, Paul, but you sound ready. No doubt
>you have given it a lot of thought and considered the consequences and
>how it will affect you. Do you have a lot of artist friends who are
>working professionally ? My own advise to you, which you can do what you
>want with ;-), is to treat it just as you would any other business - or
>sink. You need to start off with working capital and have cash flow
>forecasts and a business plan which will at least give you an idea of
>the worst scenario. Its almost impossible to survive without some other
>means of income - try cleaning toilets, its easy work and you can be
>working all the time you clean without your head getting in a twist.
>
Yes, I've bought some books about selling art and they contained quite
some experiences of artists. Luckily I'm in a very fine financial
position (having my own house, car (a fine '65 404), etc.) and have
quite some time on my hands which I divide between programming (in
obscure Assembly languages, I'm almost an "old fart" :-) , reading
lots of books and painting and drawing. The only ever present
financial danger is the combination of my credit card and the
internet, amazon.com was made into a big bussiness by me ;-) Worse,
I've discovered Ebay now
I don't believe I get rich from this first series, some paintings will
fail, some will not sell and all are quite costly to make (I reckon
they will average between a 100-150 U$ on materials alone).
Considering that if somebody else will sell them, they'll need their
share as well and there are limits to the price one can ask.
>On top of that you have to have absolute confidence in yourself and be
>ready for the times when you will inevitably lose it. While the buzz of
>selling and the boost of people telling you that your work is
>*beautiful*, or whatever, it doesn't pay the bills - a mound of debts is
>one of the most depressing anti-art weapons known.
>
Yes, the confidence is the deciding factor. I'm no longer concerned
about my subjects (since people, even women, like them and I'm now of
the opinion that I'm not the only pervert :-) My main concerns are
with my skills now. I want them to be impressive (powerfull shading,
textures, etc.).
>Last year I was working in a 18,000 pounds a year job as a receptionist
>for some Sir somebody or other when I decided to finally the plunge.
>Going daily to a job I detested and being constantly turned down for a
>mortgage as a bad risk ;-) it seemed ridiculous to continue doing
>something that drained me - I wasn't making art - a few images, but not
>art. They were shocked when I left - isn't everyone supposed to want a
>well paid secure job ?
>
Yes, people don't understand why I'm not working as a programmer while
there's a big market and reasonable payment. But I know what kind of
work one has to do in IT and it has little to do with the real
programming I'm interested in (there's very little demand for real
programmers). I don't want to spend my time solving the Y2K problem or
maintain networks. Some of my friends have embarked on this career and
are somewhat dissappointed with the work they do. It's stressfull and
not what they expected it to be (acting most of the time as a trouble
shooter for lusers, I've very little patience with lusers and even
less with braindead OSes like M$ windoze)
Believe it or not but I'm working for almost ten years now as a bridge
operator. I have 11 historical bridges (man operated, that's where I
get my strength from :-) and equally historical gates. It's quite a
rare and ancient sight even in the Netherlands. I get almost paid as
much as my fellow programmers but the nice thing of this job is that I
don't do a thing most of the year but being at home with my walkie
talkie (and thus paint, program or read), even when it's mid season
it's still far from stressfull. In this time I often don't do a single
bridge a day :-) I still have to get up as early as 7 in the morning
which is somewhat of a set back. If I could live from my paintings or
the occasional programs then I'll be free from the terror of the alarm
clock :-)
>My studio costs 3,000 pounds per year plus heating .. and of course I
>pay rent on a room in South London which costs me an additional 3,000
>per year. The studio group is very active in London and regular agents
>scouting for artists is frequent (for which you need to be in your
>studio and have work available to show to them). Then there are
>materials to buy as well as the money needed to promote the work,
>telephone, computer and all the other peripheral costs. The co-op
>gallery that I am part of has certainly introduced me to a whole range
>of artists and exposed me to regular buyers and even agents. The rent is
>just under 1,000 per year and in the last six months (its taken six
>months of the last year to get a body of work together) I sold around
>1,500 pounds worth of small works there. Now the winter is coming and
>who knows if there will be any sales until Xmas .... certainly don't
>expect any in Jan/Feb. Last year I had two solo shows and three group
>shows and a small solo opening this Sunday - total sales from those
>shows around 2,300 pounds to date. I seem to have been going full blast
>all summer and yet haven't made enough money to even come close to
>breaking even as the year ends... in fact I went through the last 10,000
>pounds from the money my father left me when he died.
>
Yes, it's important to point this out for anyone wanting to embark on
a life as artist. In most cases it won't make you rich (although an
art babble might help :-)
>Sounds grim ? That's the worst side of it and to me the least important.
>What I have had is the time and focus to *really* work. The guts work
>that I talk about. Like you, its a matter of getting a body of work
>together, increasing your confidence, having faith in what you are doing
>and the balls to go out and do it. Artists should be able to make a
>living like anyone else but they have to be prepared to put in the same
>energy and meet the same pitfalls as any other business person.
>
Yes, the problem is that artists often don't want to devote their
energy unless it's spent on a very inspired product. They don't want
anything but the best. But at the same time there's need for
production in order to pay the rent etc. There's also the problem that
many artists don't "count" their hours they worked on a piece and may
end up earning a lot less an hour than somebody who waits tables or
cleans toilets (I don't gonna do that, I've a smart uniform with cap
and all as bridge operator :-)
Alison A Raimes
<usu...@euronet.nl> writes
>Yes, the problem is that artists often don't want to devote their
>energy unless it's spent on a very inspired product. They don't want
>anything but the best. But at the same time there's need for
>production in order to pay the rent etc. There's also the problem that
>many artists don't "count" their hours they worked on a piece and may
>end up earning a lot less an hour than somebody who waits tables or
>cleans toilets (I don't gonna do that, I've a smart uniform with cap
>and all as bridge operator :-)
>
Well you can always tell when it is a cleaning toilet day for me .... I
am constantly on newsgroups ;-) ........its such a big building here and
I am supposed to do twelve hours a week but I manage to make it look
like I am working all the time (leaving my mop strategically placed). I
probably actually do around five hours ;-) the rest of the time is spent
having coffee with fellow artists who always ask me if I have time (five
minutes becomes thirty) and writing to newsgroups. After that a tornado
impression around the toilets and voila ! I get an inane sense of
satisfaction knowing they are paying me (getting them back for charging
too much rent on the studio) and at the same time knowing they have the
best cleaner they ever had ! Its called making the system work for you.
You sound like you have it nicely sussed out. Well done !
Artists are hopeless business people ... that's why they are always
broke! I just had coffee with an Australian friend here who has started
making jewellery to earn a living. Really beautiful stuff, each piece
made by hand. As he was speaking to me I kept thinking about the
discussion on RAF about *real* art ...... as I enthused about the work
he kept talking about this jewellery with real disdain and saying how he
wanted to be able to churn the stuff out quickly so he could get back to
the *real* stuff (some amazing metal sculptures collecting dust in a
corner).
I had the same conversation with him as I wrote to you about, regarding
the business side of things and within a few minutes we had established
that there was no way he could ever make money from the jewellery on the
prices he was charging - he hadn't even considered the cost of the
studio, the heating, the equipment or the mobile phone he needed, just
the materials and his time. Maybe I should become an advisor .... I
wonder if it pays better than cleaning .... naw, I would have to
actually DO some work !