By way of being an introduction.
Rob
active member of this Newsgroup. I also mentioned that I thought I had
posted a message in reply to something that Poppy had said, but it only
went to her. Well at least I never saw it on the list and received a
reply only from her. Anyway here's that original post. I plan on hanging
around for a while. I love Poppy's books, and would love to get find
some similar books and to meet similar minded people.
Heres the original letter.
A quick introduction. My name is Rob Clark. I've been an avid reader for
most of my life. Yet I'm sad to say that I just discovered your books
over the last year or so!
Previously I did not read much in the way of "horror" or as I prefer to
call it "Dark Fantasy" type literature. I had read a few Stephen King
novels, some Anne Rice, and ages ago some Poe and lots of Ray Bradbury.
I love Ray Bradburys Vampire Family stories! I'm not a "Goth" or a
"Vampire" or anything like that. Over the last few years I've also
developed a bit of an interest in Beat Literature, Cyber Punk, and Neil
Gaiman stuff but in general I seem to stick to more pedestrian types of
science fiction or fantasy novels.
Anyway! Several of my friends had read your books and recommended them
to me. Damn! I must say I'm hooked! I read The Lazarus Heart last spring
and just fell in love with it! Not too long after I picked up a copy of
Silk (on your recommendation alone!) and an issue of The Dreaming to
find out that not only was Caitlin writing that comic but was receiving
a glowing endorsement from Neil Gaiman. (I met Neil last January! He was
great, and as I've mentioned I'm a big fan of his!) Soon after I did a
web search and found Pandora Station.
Silk was fantastic and I immediately ran out and grabbed Lost Souls! I
fell absolutely in love with the story and with Ghost. I love your prose
style! Its very lyrical and unique!
I have a couple of questions. Would you consider yourself a "Post
Modern" writer? I've only just really become aware of Post Modernism in
the last few years, and am not really sure about its definitions.
Also I grew up in Mercer County West Virginia but lived most of my adult
life in the town of Blacksburg near Roanoke VA. I lived in Chicago for a
little while, and in Southern California as well. I also lived in the
small town Bunn NC for a little while and have spent a lot of time in
NC.
I enjoy all the references to that area in your books and I understand
that you've spent time all around the same area! Thats cool! It has its
charms. Its beautiful for one! I love the Blue Ridge mountains
especially in the fall! Lots of cool people, and some freaks hiding out
in the mountains!
But at the same time bigotry, World Wide Wrestling, Nascar, illiteracy,
and willful ignorance are also to be found in abundance in that area as
well!
I now reside in Denver CO and I'm happier than I have been in a long
time!
Also you write a lot about Cyber Punk books and was wondering if you
were familiar with Lewis Shiner. He wrote one of my all time favorite
books, Glimpses.
Well I would imagine that you are busy and will try to keep this short.
I just finished Wormwood a few weeks ago, and Drawing Blood a few months
before that. I'm still trying to track down some of your short stories.
I am a huge Nirvana fan (but a smaller Hole fan) and got caught up into
the whole Kurt/Courtney drama. I read an excerpt from Courtney Love the
real story the other day, and want to read it soon.
One last thing please more Steve and Ghost stories! That is if you have
any in mind. Shit! Actually I just want some more Poppy Z. Brite stuff
to read! Preferably novels! I'm hooked!
Thanks.
Rob.
P.S. If you have the time you can find my website here:
http://members.tripod.com/~Robman76/
Rob
Poppy,
Thank you for the quick reply.
>Dear Rob,
>
>Thanks for your message and for the kind words. I hope you'll decide to
>frequent the newsgroup -- they're a cranky bunch, but good-hearted.
>
Yeah I'll try and hang and post some more, when I have anything I feel like
sharing.
>I don't even know two people who agree on what that means. I dropped out of
>my freshman year of college to write LOST SOULS and have remained blissfully
>ignorant of most "lit theory."
Yeah I understand. I never even made it to college! I've tried to teach myself
about a lot of things; literature, art, psychology, history and philosophy. I'm
still not as aware of as many things as I would like to be. I've done a pretty good
job of educating myself, so I've been told anyway!
My understanding of the "post modern" movement in literature, film making, and art,
is that it readily acknowledges its influences and makes references to them. Tim
Burton has been called a post modern film maker, and his movies reflect and
reference the B movies and horror films that he watched while growing up. I noticed
that you make numerous references to the authors of the Beat movement, R. Crumb,
Tim Burton (!), and so on throughout your books. Certain elements of Beat
Literature seem to show up in your books as well, the road trip, drugs, the sort of
lost, and god help me, Slacker lifestyles. Honestly these are some of the things
that appeal to me most about your books!
>
>Hoo boy ... you should do a Dejanews search for Rice on the newgroup (or
>"Anne Lice," as most of them call her). I've tried to read a couple of her
>books and couldn't get interested in them. I read a short story of hers that
>was a real stinker.
I did a search last night for interviews with you and read about half a dozen!
Sorry about the Anne Rice comparisons! Unfortunately a lot of my friends that read
your books also like Anne's stuff as well. So I must admit that I've made certain
associations!
Yeah a lot of her stuff really blows! The books that I've read and enjoy the most
are Belinda, Interview with the Vampire, and the Mayfair Witch books. Some of the
later Vampire books are really bad, and I wish she would just stop it!
Mostly, though, she irritates me by being a bad citizen
>of my hometown -- buying churches out from under their parishioners, taking
>out full-page ads in the paper telling us who to vote for and where not to
>eat, creating traffic jams with her huge ill-planned events. Earlier in my
>career, I was also annoyed by readers assuming she was a big influence on me,
>but that's dissipated a great deal since I have refrained from writing 40,000
>vampire novels.
That I can definitely understand! I've never been to New Orleans, and want to
visit, especially now! One of my favorite movies is partially set there, Easy
Rider. Great flick!
Finally I was a huge fan of Poe, and Ray Bradbury, as I mentioned before, and read
a lot of their books in Junior High School. I was very happy to read in one of your
posts and in an interview that you liked Bradbury too! I used to read Dandelion
Wine every summer, and love his prose style too! Have you ever met him? Do you know
if he's aware of your writing?
Thanks again.
And best wishes in the New Year!
Rob.
Rob
Brad Heck wrote:
> >
> >I don't even know two people who agree on what that means.
>
> No matter how one spells it (Post Modern,
> Postmodern, PoMo etc.), it is a word with nothing in it. It can mean anything
> from the nihilistic "Marxism isn't true so nothing else is" school of
> clapped-out old New Left academics (read: smelly old hippies with tenure still
> fancying themselves at the barricades) to a rather cheap, smirking
> "knowingness" redolent with pop-culture references, "self-referentiality"
> (read: narcissitically staring up one's own asshole and making clever-clever
> asides about it) and "irony" meant to preclude the least chance of earnestness,
> sincerity and genuine emotional committment (so that one does not appear naive
> or have to take a real risk).
> As for this second category, I think Ms. Brite's work has far too much
> raw emotion and genuine humor to ever be classed with palid PoMo stuff.
Thanks for the nice clarification! As I mentioned in my reply to Poppy Tim Burton
is considered by some to be a "Post Modern" director. Or at least I have heard him
described that way on the net. Would you concur?
Tim is one of my favorite directors BTW. I loved Sleepy Hollow!
Rob
WhoShotJR wrote:
> Rob wrote:
>
> > I enjoy all the references to that area in your books and I understand
> > that you've spent time all around the same area! Thats cool! It has its
> > charms. Its beautiful for one! I love the Blue Ridge mountains
> > especially in the fall! Lots of cool people, and some freaks hiding out
> > in the mountains!
>
> Hey, watch it. Those mountain freaks are most likely relatives of
> mine. You best be careful, or they might skin you and eat you (but they're
> usually too drunk for that). Anyway, hello.
Yeah they're probably my relatives too! Most of my family are drunks! I love 'em
too. I do wish I had a sweet little witchy grandmother like Ghost though!
>
>
> > But at the same time bigotry, World Wide Wrestling, Nascar, illiteracy,
> > and willful ignorance are also to be found in abundance in that area as
> > well!
>
> The bigotry and illiteracy doesn't bother me...but, shew lordy, somebody
> do something about this NASCAR shit! It's really gotten ridiculous in the
> last few years. Everywhere you go there's a group of rednecks yeehawin'
> about it. I've driven to different parts of this state (Kentucky...I drove
> by Jim Beam, Maker's Mark, AND Seagrams yesterday!) just to see if NASCAR
> appreciation varied, and it's the same ALL OVER...the rednecks in Eastern
> Kentucky are generally pretty different from the Western Kentucky rednecks,
> except when it comes to NASCAR...it's amazing, and annoying...it has to stop
> and I mean now!
I agree whole heartedly. My father took my mother to see a race on their 25
wedding anniversary! Hows that for white trash credibility!
BTW. I hate bigotry of any sort. So if you are a bigot I can't hate you can I?
The old liberal conundrum I guess. Nah I love my family even though they're
mostly bigots too. I just don't talk to 'em about it!
Rob
WhoShotJR wrote:
> Rob wrote:
>
> > Yeah they're probably my relatives too! Most of my family are drunks! I love 'em
> > too. I do wish I had a sweet little witchy grandmother like Ghost though!
>
> All the people in Virginia and Kentucky, plus large portions of Indiana and
> Tennessee, are related somehow, someway. And we're all drunks, too.
Yep my point exactly! I used to live in a little "Holler" in West Virginia where
everyone was related and intermarried. Most of the children that lived there were in
Special Ed courses too! I'm not a drunk, at least not yet. I am a huge Pothead though!
>
>
> Certain relatives have NASCAR clothing, license plates, and neon thingies
> hanging in the living room. I used to think "Go Cats!" merchandise was tacky...
>
> > BTW. I hate bigotry of any sort. So if you are a bigot I can't hate you can I?
>
> Nope. :)
That would be my conclusion as well. I try to respect everyone, but damn its hard
sometimes!
> > The old liberal conundrum I guess. Nah I love my family even though they're
> > mostly bigots too. I just don't talk to 'em about it!
>
> As long as you buy Amrrrrican, you're okay...
Yeah? Cool! BTW. Thanks for the welcome!
Rob.
Rob
WhoShotJR wrote:
> Rob wrote:
>
> > Yeah a lot of her stuff really blows! The books that I've read and enjoy the most
> > are Belinda, Interview with the Vampire, and the Mayfair Witch books. Some of the
> > later Vampire books are really bad, and I wish she would just stop it!
>
> I'll tell ya what I think Ms. Lice's problem is: She writes one decent book (like
> Interview and The Witching Hour), then gets caught believing in her own publicity
> machine. The next twenty follow-up books are all crap, because she's convinced her
> shit don't stink. Maybe once every 10 years or so, she'll write something good. That
> *used* to be the case anyway. I don't know if she has the marbles left to write her
> own name (bet half the time she signs Lestat), much less a whole book in which the
> sentences actually seem related to one another.
LOL! Yeah that sounds about right!
Is anyone here at all familiar with Nancy A. Collins? I've heard a lot of good stuff about
her. I read her Crow short story in Broken Lives, Shattered Dreams, and liked it. Could
anyone recommend any of her books?
Rob.
Rob
Brad Heck wrote:
> Rob wrote:
>
> >Thanks for the nice clarification! As I mentioned in my reply to Poppy Tim
> >Burton
> >is considered by some to be a "Post Modern" director. Or at least I have
> >heard him
> >described that way on the net. Would you concur?
>
> I'd have to say I strongly disagree with that assessment, Rob. I regard Mr.
> Burton as an Arch-Romantic and I have since _Beetlejuice_. That's not realy a
> criticism. I like his stuff ( even _James and the Giant Peach_). He's very
> entertaining. He's not PoMo, though, and you ought to be happy about that. I
> and the the SO haven't seen _Sleepy Hollow_ yet. How is it?
Pretty damn good IMHO.
Rob.
.
Rob wrote:
> I am a huge Nirvana fan (but a smaller Hole fan) and got caught up into
> the whole Kurt/Courtney drama.
Don't worry; most of us won't hold that against you.
> One last thing please more Steve and Ghost stories! That is if you have
> any in mind. Shit! Actually I just want some more Poppy Z. Brite stuff
> to read! Preferably novels! I'm hooked!
What *have* you read, aside from LS, DB and WW?
Poppy Z. Brite
> I have a couple of questions. Would you consider yourself a "Post Modern"
> writer?
I don't even know two people who agree on what that means. I dropped out of my
freshman year of college to write LOST SOULS and have remained blissfully
ignorant of most "lit theory."
> I've only just really become aware of Post Modernism in the last few years,
> and am
> not really sure about its definitions.
See? ;>
> Also I haven't read too many interviews with you and I'm not sure if you
> have
> addressed any of these topics, so please forgive me if I am tedious! Are you
> a fan
> of Anne Rice? I've read only a handful of her novels and enjoyed most of
> them.
> (Pandora sucked donkey balls!!) I have noticed some similarities in themes
> and in
> the depth and lyrical qualities or your descriptions. Please don't be
> offended by
> this statement if you are not a fan of Anne Rice! This is only my opinion.
> Besides
> the similarities could be unconscious or related to the fact that the two of
> you
> may have read and been influenced by the same authors. Regardless, these
> alleged
> similarities are minor! And I enjoy your books much more!
Hoo boy ... you should do a Dejanews search for Rice on the newgroup (or "Anne
Lice," as most of them call her). I've tried to read a couple of her books and
couldn't get interested in them. I read a short story of hers that was a real
stinker. Mostly, though, she irritates me by being a bad citizen of my
hometown -- buying churches out from under their parishioners, taking out
full-page ads in the paper telling us who to vote for and where not to eat,
creating traffic jams with her huge ill-planned events. Earlier in my career,
I was also annoyed by readers assuming she was a big influence on me, but
that's dissipated a great deal since I have refrained from writing 40,000
vampire novels.
PZB
Brad Heck
>I have a couple of questions. Would you consider yourself a "Post Modern"
>> writer?
>
>I don't even know two people who agree on what that means.
No matter how one spells it (Post Modern,
Postmodern, PoMo etc.), it is a word with nothing in it. It can mean anything
from the nihilistic "Marxism isn't true so nothing else is" school of
clapped-out old New Left academics (read: smelly old hippies with tenure still
fancying themselves at the barricades) to a rather cheap, smirking
"knowingness" redolent with pop-culture references, "self-referentiality"
(read: narcissitically staring up one's own asshole and making clever-clever
asides about it) and "irony" meant to preclude the least chance of earnestness,
sincerity and genuine emotional committment (so that one does not appear naive
or have to take a real risk).
As for this second category, I think Ms. Brite's work has far too much
raw emotion and genuine humor to ever be classed with palid PoMo stuff.
> I dropped out of my
>freshman year of college to write LOST SOULS and have remained blissfully
>ignorant of most "lit theory."
Wise choice ;-) I know enough about it to mock and dismiss it. Professional
critics, as I believe I've raved in here before, are parasites feeding upon
living and dead writers to whom they owe their living. Literature, as always,
is a live and dangerous thing not easily confined. I had far too much respect
for it to study it the "school" way.
Well, enough spew from me.
Brad
"What's he *building* in there?
What the *hell* is he building in there..."
-Mr. Tom Waits
WhoShotJR
> I enjoy all the references to that area in your books and I understand
> that you've spent time all around the same area! Thats cool! It has its
> charms. Its beautiful for one! I love the Blue Ridge mountains
> especially in the fall! Lots of cool people, and some freaks hiding out
> in the mountains!
Hey, watch it. Those mountain freaks are most likely relatives of
mine. You best be careful, or they might skin you and eat you (but they're
usually too drunk for that). Anyway, hello.
> But at the same time bigotry, World Wide Wrestling, Nascar, illiteracy,
Bernie
>do something about this NASCAR shit! It's really gotten ridiculous in the
>last few years. Everywhere you go there's a group of rednecks yeehawin'
>about it. I've driven to different parts of this state (Kentucky...I drove
>by Jim Beam, Maker's Mark, AND Seagrams yesterday!) just to see if NASCAR
>appreciation varied, and it's the same ALL OVER...the rednecks in Eastern
>Kentucky are generally pretty different from the Western Kentucky rednecks,
>except when it comes to NASCAR...it's amazing, and annoying...it has to stop
>and I mean now!
Yeh, geez.
I'm in northern KY, and i see the same damned thing.
I can build fire bombs if you can provide transportation =)
Bernie
"...Your best? Losers always whine about doing their best...Winners go home
and bang the prom queen"
"Carla was the prom Queen" - The Rock
Poppy Z. Brite
>>freshman year of college to write LOST SOULS and have remained blissfully
>>ignorant of most "lit theory."
>
>Wise choice ;-) I know enough about it to mock and dismiss it.
>Brad
Yeah, Chris was a lit major, and he tells me I definitely made the right
choice.
PZB
WhoShotJR
> Brad Heck wrote:
>
> > >
> > >I don't even know two people who agree on what that means.
> >
> > No matter how one spells it (Post Modern,
> > Postmodern, PoMo etc.), it is a word with nothing in it. It can mean anything
> > from the nihilistic "Marxism isn't true so nothing else is" school of
> > clapped-out old New Left academics (read: smelly old hippies with tenure still
> > fancying themselves at the barricades) to a rather cheap, smirking
> > "knowingness" redolent with pop-culture references, "self-referentiality"
> > (read: narcissitically staring up one's own asshole and making clever-clever
> > asides about it) and "irony" meant to preclude the least chance of earnestness,
> > sincerity and genuine emotional committment (so that one does not appear naive
> > or have to take a real risk).
> > As for this second category, I think Ms. Brite's work has far too much
> > raw emotion and genuine humor to ever be classed with palid PoMo stuff.
>
> Thanks for the nice clarification! As I mentioned in my reply to Poppy Tim Burton
> is considered by some to be a "Post Modern" director. Or at least I have heard him
> described that way on the net. Would you concur?
You could find a way to classify any author, living or dead, as "postmodern."
There's no way to define it; it's an empty word. You'd be just as right making up a
word and calling 'em that.
WhoShotJR
WhoShotJR
> >but, shew lordy, somebody
> >do something about this NASCAR shit! It's really gotten ridiculous in the
> >last few years. Everywhere you go there's a group of rednecks yeehawin'
> >about it. I've driven to different parts of this state (Kentucky...I drove
> >by Jim Beam, Maker's Mark, AND Seagrams yesterday!) just to see if NASCAR
> >appreciation varied, and it's the same ALL OVER...the rednecks in Eastern
> >Kentucky are generally pretty different from the Western Kentucky rednecks,
> >except when it comes to NASCAR...it's amazing, and annoying...it has to stop
> >and I mean now!
>
> Yeh, geez.
> I'm in northern KY, and i see the same damned thing.
> I can build fire bombs if you can provide transportation =)
That'll never work. Here's my plan: You start rounding up all their male
kids (you'll have to recruit some help for this one, I think), and I'll get all
the rubber bands and newspaper I can find. Anybody have some scissors we could
borrow?
WhoShotJR
> WhoShotJR wrote:
>
> > Rob wrote:
> >
> > > I enjoy all the references to that area in your books and I understand
> > > that you've spent time all around the same area! Thats cool! It has its
> > > charms. Its beautiful for one! I love the Blue Ridge mountains
> > > especially in the fall! Lots of cool people, and some freaks hiding out
> > > in the mountains!
> >
> > Hey, watch it. Those mountain freaks are most likely relatives of
> > mine. You best be careful, or they might skin you and eat you (but they're
> > usually too drunk for that). Anyway, hello.
>
> Yeah they're probably my relatives too! Most of my family are drunks! I love 'em
> too. I do wish I had a sweet little witchy grandmother like Ghost though!
All the people in Virginia and Kentucky, plus large portions of Indiana and
Tennessee, are related somehow, someway. And we're all drunks, too.
> >
> >
> > > But at the same time bigotry, World Wide Wrestling, Nascar, illiteracy,
> > > and willful ignorance are also to be found in abundance in that area as
> > > well!
> >
> > The bigotry and illiteracy doesn't bother me...but, shew lordy, somebody
> > do something about this NASCAR shit! It's really gotten ridiculous in the
> > last few years. Everywhere you go there's a group of rednecks yeehawin'
> > about it. I've driven to different parts of this state (Kentucky...I drove
> > by Jim Beam, Maker's Mark, AND Seagrams yesterday!) just to see if NASCAR
> > appreciation varied, and it's the same ALL OVER...the rednecks in Eastern
> > Kentucky are generally pretty different from the Western Kentucky rednecks,
> > except when it comes to NASCAR...it's amazing, and annoying...it has to stop
> > and I mean now!
>
> I agree whole heartedly. My father took my mother to see a race on their 25
> wedding anniversary! Hows that for white trash credibility!
Certain relatives have NASCAR clothing, license plates, and neon thingies
hanging in the living room. I used to think "Go Cats!" merchandise was tacky...
> BTW. I hate bigotry of any sort. So if you are a bigot I can't hate you can I?
Nope. :)
> The old liberal conundrum I guess. Nah I love my family even though they're
.
Rob wrote:
>
> And just because I'm a little obsessive-compulsive heres my reply.
>
> Poppy,
>
> Thank you for the quick reply.
>
> >Dear Rob,
> >
> >Thanks for your message and for the kind words. I hope you'll decide to
> >frequent the newsgroup -- they're a cranky bunch, but good-hearted.
Hi ROb,
As one of the cranky bunch, I have a feeling this wasn't meant for pubic consumption.
.
Rob wrote:
> Is anyone here at all familiar with Nancy A. Collins? I've heard a lot of good stuff about
> her. I read her Crow short story in Broken Lives, Shattered Dreams, and liked it. Could
> anyone recommend any of her books?
If you don't mind, could you put a * in her name somewhere? That way we
don't have to undergo invasion by that sick fuck of a husband's SPAM
when he Dejas for targets.
.
Cliff Evans wrote:
> Shit, I'm not even good-hearted.
>
> And I won't point out your most Freudian of spelling errors.
Bitch.
.
Brad Heck wrote:
>
> >If you don't mind, could you put a * in her name somewhere? That way we
> >don't have to undergo invasion by that sick fuck of a husband's SPAM
> >when he Dejas for targets.
> >
> >
>
> Is *that* what Stanley the Ghastly Poet does for occupation these days? God,
> what a sad bastard! The gent's work, it pretty much goes without saying, is
> unspeakable. Plain fact.
Wasn't talking Lice. I was talking the mess of a male, J*e C*r*st.
WhoShotJR
> Rob wrote:
> >
> > And just because I'm a little obsessive-compulsive heres my reply.
> >
> > Poppy,
> >
> > Thank you for the quick reply.
> >
> > >Dear Rob,
> > >
> > >Thanks for your message and for the kind words. I hope you'll decide to
> > >frequent the newsgroup -- they're a cranky bunch, but good-hearted.
>
> Hi ROb,
>
> As one of the cranky bunch, I have a feeling this wasn't meant for pubic consumption.
Heh...PZB and The Cranky Bunch...Ah hell yeah...yo Molly B., bust a rhyme...
Cliff Evans
>
> Rob wrote:
> >
> > And just because I'm a little obsessive-compulsive heres my reply.
> >
> > Poppy,
> >
> > Thank you for the quick reply.
> >
> > >Dear Rob,
> > >
> > >Thanks for your message and for the kind words. I hope you'll decide to
> > >frequent the newsgroup -- they're a cranky bunch, but good-hearted.
>
> Hi ROb,
> As one of the cranky bunch, I have a feeling this wasn't meant for pubic consumption.
Shit, I'm not even good-hearted.
And I won't point out your most Freudian of spelling errors.
--
Cliff Evans
<boz...@earthlink.net>
--------------------------------------------
"My foolish capering destroyed more young
minds than syphilis and pinball combined."
-Sideshow Bob
--------------------------------------------
Brad Heck
> All the people in Virginia and Kentucky, plus large portions of Indiana and
>Tennessee, are related somehow, someway. And we're all drunks, too.
>
You forgot *West* Virginia, you silly English major boy, you! ;-)
Brad Heck
> That'll never work. Here's my plan: You start rounding up all their male
>kids (you'll have to recruit some help for this one, I think), and I'll get
>all
>the rubber bands and newspaper I can find. Anybody have some scissors we
>could
>borrow?
>
Hell, I've got a nice set of docking shears and bloodless castrators I
inherited from my uncle the vet. All we need is a nice hot fire for
sterilization and cauturising wounds and we could have that job done lickety
split!
Brad, shamefully raving while drunk ;-)
Brad Heck
>don't have to undergo invasion by that sick fuck of a husband's SPAM
>when he Dejas for targets.
>
>
Is *that* what Stanley the Ghastly Poet does for occupation these days? God,
what a sad bastard! The gent's work, it pretty much goes without saying, is
unspeakable. Plain fact.
Brad
Brad Heck
>Thanks for the nice clarification! As I mentioned in my reply to Poppy Tim
>Burton
>is considered by some to be a "Post Modern" director. Or at least I have
>heard him
>described that way on the net. Would you concur?
I'd have to say I strongly disagree with that assessment, Rob. I regard Mr.
Burton as an Arch-Romantic and I have since _Beetlejuice_. That's not realy a
criticism. I like his stuff ( even _James and the Giant Peach_). He's very
entertaining. He's not PoMo, though, and you ought to be happy about that. I
and the the SO haven't seen _Sleepy Hollow_ yet. How is it?
Brad
Brad Heck
> You could find a way to classify any author, living or dead, as
>"postmodern."
>There's no way to define it; it's an empty word. You'd be just as right
>making up a
>word and calling 'em that.
Well, yeah, pretty much. I guess I was really ranting about John Barf, er,
Barth and the Horrible Brothers Barthelme (sp?) there. Sorry. Jim is better
informed about LitCrit stuff than just about all of us, so I defer to him on
this.
Cliff Evans
> I and the the SO haven't seen _Sleepy Hollow_ yet. How is it?
Pretty good. I wouldn't say amazing, but pretty darned good.
Gratuitous Christopher Walken, nice explanation for the whole thing,
suitable creepy/haunted setting, lots and lots of gore. And Christina
"The Human Forehead" Ricci in push-up bodices. Worth a look.
WhoShotJR
> > > BTW. I hate bigotry of any sort. So if you are a bigot I can't hate you can I?
> >
> > Nope. :)
>
> That would be my conclusion as well. I try to respect everyone, but damn its hard
> sometimes!
I rarely say anything to anyone's face, so I consider myself respectful :)
> > > The old liberal conundrum I guess. Nah I love my family even though they're
> > > mostly bigots too. I just don't talk to 'em about it!
> >
> > As long as you buy Amrrrrican, you're okay...
>
> Yeah? Cool! BTW. Thanks for the welcome!
Well, ummm, you're welcome. hehe
Mélanie Fazi
>I'd have to say I strongly disagree with that assessment, Rob. I regard Mr.
Burton as an Arch-Romantic and I have since _Beetlejuice_. That's not realy
a criticism. I like his stuff ( even _James and the Giant Peach_).
He didn't do 'James and the Giant Peach'. That one was directed by Henry
Selick, who also did 'The Nightmare Before Christmas', but Tim Burton was
not involved in it (or did he produce it maybe? I'm not sure.)
>I and the the SO haven't seen _Sleepy Hollow_ yet. How is it?
Dunno yet. It will only be released next month here in France. I'm dying to
see it, though.
>"What's he *building* in there?
> What the *hell* is he building in there..."
"We have a right to know" ;-)
Melanie
http://www.welcome.to/electriclight
WhoShotJR
> Is anyone here at all familiar with Nancy A. Collins? I've heard a lot of good stuff about
> her. I read her Crow short story in Broken Lives, Shattered Dreams, and liked it. Could
> anyone recommend any of her books?
I've read a few, but no, I can't recommend any. She's often very good in the short form,
but her novels pretty much suck. Sunglasses After Dark is just crap (as are all its sequels,
that I've read). If you want to check-out a really bad Collins book, though, pick up a copy
of the werewolf thingy...Wild Blood, i think it's called. Ugh. Sold that baby for less than
a quarter, and I still feel I cheated Book & Music Exchange on that deal...
Ian McDowell
> Wasn't talking Lice. I was talking the mess of a male [name deleted]
The thing is, this person is always _exceedingly_ nice to me whenever we
are at a convention together, and as far as I can tell, there's nothing he
wants from me and nothing I can do for him -- indeed, he seems to have
gone out of his way to do me a good turn as far as suggesting outlets for
my artwork goes (yes, I illustrate as well as write -- one day I'd love to
do an illo for something by our topic hostess). I never know quite how to
react to his, since, among other things, he once seriously sexually
harassed a friend of mine.
Anyone else ever run into a similar conflict, where someone who gives you
the creeps is always unaccountably nice to you, and you can't quite bring
yourself to do cut them dead? It's very distressing.
Ian, who wouldn't be mentioning this at all if not for the tequila shots
Ian McDowell
> Pretty good. I wouldn't say amazing, but pretty darned good.
> Gratuitous Christopher Walken, nice explanation for the whole thing,
> suitable creepy/haunted setting, lots and lots of gore. And Christina
> "The Human Forehead" Ricci in push-up bodices. Worth a look.
While Ms. Ricci doesn't do for me the things that she apparently does for
some people I know (including one who has trolled this group), I
appreciate the fact that she doesn't conform to the Hollywood norm and
hasn't gone the "I can now afford a personal trainer and am going for the
Auschwitz look" mindset that has afflicted even a goddess like Angelina
Jolie. Plus, I really like her as an actress, and the bulging baby-bird
forehead doesn't bug me like it does on the vile Juliette Lewis.
However, I don't much like her as a blonde, and while watching SLEEPY
HOLLOW I kept thinking that she had a creepy resemblence to a ten-year-old
with a boob job. For me, the real feminine pulchitrude in the film was
the luminous Lisa Marie. I wish she'd do movies for somebody other than
her boyfriend. Somebody needs to give her the Barbara Steele role in a
remake of Mario Bava's BLACK SUNDAY (I'd say that Burton would be perfect
for the job, except that he's such an asexual director).
Ian
.
Ian McDowell wrote:
> Anyone else ever run into a similar conflict, where someone who gives you
> the creeps is always unaccountably nice to you, and you can't quite bring
> yourself to do cut them dead? It's very distressing.
Yes, I teach with a person who was so completely foul in his divorce
proceedings that I almost shudder at the mention of his name. And yet,
he's as sweet as pie to me.
> Ian, who wouldn't be mentioning this at all if not for the tequila shots
Have one for me; I need it.
Franklin Harris
"Ian McDowell" <ian...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:iankmcd-0801...@pool-207-205-135-80.atln.grid.net...
> In article <3876B65F...@earthlink.net>, boz...@earthlink.net wrote:
>
> However, I don't much like her as a blonde, and while watching SLEEPY
> HOLLOW I kept thinking that she had a creepy resemblence to a ten-year-old
> with a boob job. For me, the real feminine pulchitrude in the film was
> the luminous Lisa Marie.
And for me, it was Miranda Richardson. But then I've been a sucker for her
since she was threatening to lop off Blackadder's head. (Hey, gotta go for
the bad girl.)
--
Franklin Harris
Pulp Culture Online
www.pulpculture.net
Mélanie Fazi
>And for me, it was Miranda Richardson. But then I've been a sucker for her
since she was threatening to lop off Blackadder's head. (Hey, gotta go for
the bad girl.)
She's fine in about every movie she did, but she was particularly cool as
the Queen in 'Black Adder'. And in 'The Crying Game' too. Can't wait to see
her in 'Sleepy Hollow'.
WhoShotJR
> Anyone else ever run into a similar conflict, where someone who gives you
> the creeps is always unaccountably nice to you, and you can't quite bring
> yourself to do cut them dead? It's very distressing.
Yes, and when they're nice, it just creeps me out even more. I always
wonder when the axe is going to come out. But I'm the creepy person for lots
of people, so I guess it's only fair.
Lively Cadaver
Brad Heck wrote:
> Rob wrote:
>
> >Thanks for the nice clarification! As I mentioned in my reply to Poppy Tim
> >Burton
> >is considered by some to be a "Post Modern" director. Or at least I have
> >heard him
> >described that way on the net. Would you concur?
>
> I'd have to say I strongly disagree with that assessment, Rob. I regard Mr.
> Burton as an Arch-Romantic and I have since _Beetlejuice_. That's not realy a
> criticism. I like his stuff ( even _James and the Giant Peach_). He's very
> entertaining. He's not PoMo, though, and you ought to be happy about that. I
> and the the SO haven't seen _Sleepy Hollow_ yet. How is it?
_Sleepy Hollow_ is a visual orgasm!
Lively Cadaver
WhoShotJR
> Franklin Harris wrote:
>
> >And for me, it was Miranda Richardson. But then I've been a sucker for her
> since she was threatening to lop off Blackadder's head. (Hey, gotta go for
> the bad girl.)
>
> She's fine in about every movie she did, but she was particularly cool as
> the Queen in 'Black Adder'. And in 'The Crying Game' too. Can't wait to see
> her in 'Sleepy Hollow'.
I haven't seen Sleepy Hollow (I don't know if I like Tim Burton enough to
sit through 2 hours of Johnny Depp...now, I will sit through however-many hours
of Depp for Roman Polanski when The Ninth Gate comes out, but Burton ain't no
Polanski), but I like most of the movies I've seen that Miranda Richardson is
in...don't know if it has much to do with her acting, but she certainly has
good taste...
Tom & Viv was on HBO the other day, btw...love that one...
from...@postoffice.swbell.net
today helping a friend move after she and her ex-boyfriend had a fight so
desperate he pulled out a baseball bat. When I was in his company, he was the
picture of gentility and politeness, the sort of person you'd think you'd be
proud to show off to the folks, and then he turns around and damn near kills one
of my best friends. (Hes a former Marine, shes a 5'1" former ballerina) If I ever
run into him again, I will not stop, but turn and flee, because anyone that
Jeckyll-and-Hyde is a border sociopath.
PEACELOVE&NAKEDRABBITS
b
Mélanie Fazi
> I haven't seen Sleepy Hollow (I don't know if I like Tim Burton enough
to
>sit through 2 hours of Johnny Depp...now, I will sit through however-many
hours
>of Depp for Roman Polanski when The Ninth Gate comes out, but Burton ain't
no
>Polanski),
No, Tim Burton is not Polanski - the former has never disappointed me,
whereas I'm beginning to have serious doubts about the latter.
Let me warn you about The Ninth Gate: if you like Polanski, you'd better
forget about that film, it's a complete mess. Nothing to save in there. I
don't have anything against Polanski, far from it, but I wish I had never
seen The Ninth Gate.
Talking of Depp and Burton - does that mean you never saw Edward
Scissorhands? And Ed Wood? Really?
but I like most of the movies I've seen that Miranda Richardson is
>in...don't know if it has much to do with her acting, but she certainly has
good taste...
Well, I'm not sure about Enchanted April - but she's one of the few
actresses for which I would go and see about any film. And I'm dying to see
Sleeping Hollow.
WhoShotJR
> WhoShotJR wrote:
>
> > I haven't seen Sleepy Hollow (I don't know if I like Tim Burton enough
> to
> >sit through 2 hours of Johnny Depp...now, I will sit through however-many
> hours
> >of Depp for Roman Polanski when The Ninth Gate comes out, but Burton ain't
> no
> >Polanski),
>
> No, Tim Burton is not Polanski - the former has never disappointed me,
> whereas I'm beginning to have serious doubts about the latter.
> Let me warn you about The Ninth Gate: if you like Polanski, you'd better
> forget about that film, it's a complete mess. Nothing to save in there. I
> don't have anything against Polanski, far from it, but I wish I had never
> seen The Ninth Gate.
Well, we shall see...
> Talking of Depp and Burton - does that mean you never saw Edward
> Scissorhands? And Ed Wood? Really?
No, I saw them. Edward Scissorhands is perhaps the only character Johnny
Depp has played without annoying me. (Notice how bad actors are generally
pretty good in roles where they don't have to speak or act like real humans?)
Ed Wood was total crap, though.
> but I like most of the movies I've seen that Miranda Richardson is
> >in...don't know if it has much to do with her acting, but she certainly has
> good taste...
>
> Well, I'm not sure about Enchanted April - but she's one of the few
> actresses for which I would go and see about any film. And I'm dying to see
> Sleeping Hollow.
I enjoyed Enchanted April, but it's not my favorite with her in it...I never
die to see movies, because I've seen too many and it's just not that fun
anymore...
Mélanie Fazi
>Edward Scissorhands is perhaps the only character Johnny
>Depp has played without annoying me.
He was not bad in Dead Man either - not my favourite Jarmusch movie, though.
I'm afraid you're going to hate his character in The Ninth Gate, then.
There's absolutely nothing to save from that film, and yet I expected a lot
from it. I can't believe it was directed by the same person as Rosemary's
Baby.
>I never die to see movies, because I've seen too many and it's just not
that fun anymore...
I used to die to see movies when I was about 16 - and it was around that
time I first got interested in Miranda Richardson, among others. But I agree
with you, when you've seen too many it's not as exciting as before. I'm more
into music and books these days.
Still, expecting a Tim Burton movie always makes me feel like a kid waiting
for Christmas - and I can't wait to see that Lord of the Rings movie that
will be out next year.
Melanie
http://www.welcome.to/electriclight
Ian McDowell
Burton, I forget which, said in some interview that he conceived the
character as a combination of Peter Cushing and an eleven year old girl,
and that's just what Depp plays.
Ian
Brad Heck
>then he turns around and damn near kills one
>of my best friends. (Hes a former Marine, shes a 5'1" former ballerina)
And *there's* your explanation! Once a Jarhead, always a Jarhead. Dimwits and
hardons with too much bollocks and too little sense, every last motherfucking
one of them. They're great for making frontal assaults and other idiotically
"glorious" manuvers, but they really shouldn't let them out of the cage too
often. I got thrown out of one of my favorite bars for knocking a few teeth out
of an ex-jarhead who had married a friend of mine and immediately started
slapping her around. She had the sense to divorce him. He's in law school now,
which I take as further evidence of his character flaws ;-) What a shitheel!
I'm glad you helped your friend get away from her jarhead asshole.
Brad, sorry to rant about this but I have a Thing against Marines...
"What's he *building* in there?
What the *hell* is he building in there..."
-Mr. Tom Waits
Franklin Harris
Oooo. That *is* an excellent description. Depp does have much of Cushing's
demeanor and delivery about him at times, especially when uttering lines
like, "We have murders in New York without benefit of ghosts and goblins."
MrHedd
Mélanie Fazi <faz...@club-internet.fr> wrote in message
news:856hp5$jjb$1...@front7m.grolier.fr...
> Brad Heck wrote:
>
> >I'd have to say I strongly disagree with that assessment, Rob. I regard
Mr.
> Burton as an Arch-Romantic and I have since _Beetlejuice_. That's not
realy
> a criticism. I like his stuff ( even _James and the Giant Peach_).
>
> He didn't do 'James and the Giant Peach'. That one was directed by Henry
> Selick, who also did 'The Nightmare Before Christmas', but Tim Burton was
> not involved in it (or did he produce it maybe? I'm not sure.)
>
> >I and the the SO haven't seen _Sleepy Hollow_ yet. How is it?
I don't believe Burton had anything to do with Giant Peach. He was listed
as producer on Nightmare before Christmas though, maybe that's what you're
thinking of.
I'd recommend Sleepy Hollow though. Good script and performances, and one of
the most visually beautiful films I've seen in a while.
An Exquisite Corpse
Johnny
> Depp has played without annoying me. (Notice how bad actors are generally
> pretty good in roles where they don't have to speak or act like real
humans?)
> Ed Wood was total crap, though.
I personally love Depp, and he is an amazing actor, but you have to remember
he is truelly a mime, he studied Buster Keaton and Chaplin. This is why he
is predominantly quiet in his films, Look at Benny and June & Dead man for
true Depp. He is a wonder to watch if you bother about watching his every
move. However if you really don't like him I would stay clear of Sleepy
Hollow, it is so much about Depp's take on comedy, which is brillient. I
have seen it twice and must say it was worth seeing the second time as you
don't need to worry about the plot so you get far more of the comedy.
Lord Nhudri
An Exquisite Corpse
> as producer on Nightmare before Christmas though, maybe that's what you're
> thinking of.
>
> I'd recommend Sleepy Hollow though. Good script and performances, and one
of
> the most visually beautiful films I've seen in a while.
DO any of you know anything about Dark Town (NOT CITY, which is a wonderful
film) I heard a lot about it around the time Nightmare came out but nothing
since
Lord Nhudri
WhoShotJR
I rarely worry about plot in Johnny Depp movies. And I won't argue with you
about the man's brains (he could be very smart for all I know), but I don't know
where you get this great actor crap. He's a friggin' cartoon.
An Exquisite Corpse
> > I personally love Depp, and he is an amazing actor, but you have to
remember
> > he is truelly a mime, he studied Buster Keaton and Chaplin. This is why
he
> > is predominantly quiet in his films, Look at Benny and June & Dead man
for
> > true Depp. He is a wonder to watch if you bother about watching his
every
> > move. However if you really don't like him I would stay clear of Sleepy
> > Hollow, it is so much about Depp's take on comedy, which is brillient. I
> > have seen it twice and must say it was worth seeing the second time as
you
> > don't need to worry about the plot so you get far more of the comedy.
>
> I rarely worry about plot in Johnny Depp movies. And I won't argue
with you
> about the man's brains (he could be very smart for all I know), but I
don't know
> where you get this great actor crap. He's a friggin' cartoon.
And how many people do you know that can actually be a cartoon in real life.
He is one of the best in his selected type of actimg. And personally I
believe the greatest artists are the ones that do what they do because they
are experimenting on a theme, and don't tred the most walked paths everyone
expects them to. I mean would we all like Christopher Walken as much if he
wasn't the mad kind of asocial maniac that eats two whole chickens [1] for
lunch in a restaurant every day. Always requesting the same waitress and
then throws the bones on the floor. Greatness comes from being different.
Lord Nhudri.
[1] Damnit I hate the man. I wish I had this kind of metabolism.
WhoShotJR
> > > I personally love Depp, and he is an amazing actor, but you have to
> remember
> > > he is truelly a mime, he studied Buster Keaton and Chaplin. This is why
> he
> > > is predominantly quiet in his films, Look at Benny and June & Dead man
> for
> > > true Depp. He is a wonder to watch if you bother about watching his
> every
> > > move. However if you really don't like him I would stay clear of Sleepy
> > > Hollow, it is so much about Depp's take on comedy, which is brillient. I
> > > have seen it twice and must say it was worth seeing the second time as
> you
> > > don't need to worry about the plot so you get far more of the comedy.
> >
> > I rarely worry about plot in Johnny Depp movies. And I won't argue
> with you
> > about the man's brains (he could be very smart for all I know), but I
> don't know
> > where you get this great actor crap. He's a friggin' cartoon.
>
> And how many people do you know that can actually be a cartoon in real life.
In real life I'm a fucking cartoon (depending on my mood). We're not
talking about real life, though. We're talking about movies, so here's a list
of movie cartoons: Adam Sandler, Deuce Bigalow, Jim Carrey, Robin Williams...and
I can't stand their movies either.
> He is one of the best in his selected type of actimg. And personally I
> believe the greatest artists are the ones that do what they do because they
> are experimenting on a theme, and don't tred the most walked paths everyone
> expects them to.
And what else would you expect from Cry Baby Depp? His few attempts at
stepping out of the weirdo mode have been disastrous...why? Because he's a bad
actor. He's got one note, and Ace Ventura plays it better.
> I mean would we all like Christopher Walken as much if he
> wasn't the mad kind of asocial maniac that eats two whole chickens [1] for
> lunch in a restaurant every day. Always requesting the same waitress and
> then throws the bones on the floor.
Glenn Close said recently on the Rosie O'Donnell Show (add her to the
cartoon list) that Christopher Walken is actually a very nice, very shy and
intelligent person. Glenn Close...now there's an actor.
> Greatness comes from being different.
I'm sure every bad actor in the world wants us to believe this. Lowers our
standards when we're not supposed to compare.
Carla Pettigrew
> Glenn Close...now there's an actor.
She's absolutely brilliant.
My favorite GC will always be Fatal Attraction. My copy has rehearsal
footage. . .watching her reshape the nuances of a scene gives me chills.
Ever seen her cameo in Hook? She plays a *man*. Check out the pirate who
gets shut in the boo box with the scorpion.
O:) Carla
--
grimoire: horror literature discussion list
http://www.mindspring.com/~screamqueen/grimoire/
To subscribe: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/grimoire
JHodges611
>Ever seen her cameo in Hook? She plays a *man*. Check out the pirate who
>gets shut in the boo box with the scorpion.
>
>O:) Carla
>
>--
>grimoire: horror literature discussion list
>http://www.mindspring.com/~screamqueen/grimoire/
>To subscribe: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/grimoire
No way. No I have to run to the video store.
My favorite cameo is when Larry King plays himself in that movie with him in
it.
That was a joke.
And speaking of cameos, anybody know where in Exorcist III is Samuel L.
Jackson's cameo?
Blessed Be,
Jason Hodges
Ian McDowell
jhodg...@aol.com (JHodges611) wrote:
> And speaking of cameos, anybody know where in Exorcist III is Samuel L.
> Jackson's cameo?
>
Hmm, I know where Fabio's cameo is in the film (an angel in the dream
sequence). Don't remember Jackson's.
Ian
Carla Pettigrew
Though I don't remember seeing him, I would assume he is in the dream
sequence along with everyone else. :)
JHodges611
>In article <20000117231543...@ng-ca1.aol.com>,
>jhodg...@aol.com (JHodges611) wrote:
>
>> And speaking of cameos, anybody know where in Exorcist III is Samuel L.
>> Jackson's cameo?
>>
>
>Hmm, I know where Fabio's cameo is in the film (an angel in the dream
>sequence). Don't remember Jackson's.
>
>Ian
>
I remember Fabio's. Larry King and Donald Trump I believe are also in the
movie. And Patrick Ewing is also an angel.
The back of the DVD says "And look for Samuel L. Jackson..." So unless there's
some lies being spread, he's in the movie somewhere. My best guess is the
Heaven stuff. But I could be wrong.
JHodges611
>Mélanie Fazi <faz...@club-internet.fr> wrote in message
>news:856hp5$jjb$1...@front7m.grolier.fr...
>> Brad Heck wrote:
>>
>> >I'd have to say I strongly disagree with that assessment, Rob. I regard
>Mr.
>> Burton as an Arch-Romantic and I have since _Beetlejuice_. That's not
>realy
>> a criticism. I like his stuff ( even _James and the Giant Peach_).
>>
>> He didn't do 'James and the Giant Peach'. That one was directed by Henry
>> Selick, who also did 'The Nightmare Before Christmas', but Tim Burton was
>> not involved in it (or did he produce it maybe? I'm not sure.)
>>
>> >I and the the SO haven't seen _Sleepy Hollow_ yet. How is it?
>
>
>I don't believe Burton had anything to do with Giant Peach. He was listed
>as producer on Nightmare before Christmas though, maybe that's what you're
>thinking of.
>
>I'd recommend Sleepy Hollow though. Good script and performances, and one of
>the most visually beautiful films I've seen in a while.
>
I thought Burton produced James and the Giant Peach. Not only that, I thought
it was the same people, the ones that did the modeling and stuff for Nightmare.