Good Cop=Dead Cop
Tristaan
Hmmm...sounds like one of Salv9's cronies...
Tristaan (wondering what kinda doll THIS guy will make...)
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faceless_...@my-deja.com
rmar...@i.hate.spam.ptd.net wrote:
> <snippage>
>
> Hmmm...sounds like one of Salv9's cronies...
>
> Tristaan (wondering what kinda doll THIS guy will make...)
Brian Brunner here (Brute #11 faceless_...@hotmail.com)
Doll-style: Large, Purple, with co-centric circles alternating black
& white centered around the junction of heart & lungs, designed to
be pinned on cardboard and fired upon from a few hundred feet with
whatever shootin'iron is at hand. No use aiming for the brain,
ain't nothing there.
If we use the right ammo, "Blow-up doll" could take on a whole
new meaning.
"You may commence firing." (this has nothing to do with reductions
in work force or employees, some of whom aren't on the *work* force,
they're just clocking hours and getting paid.)
Welcome Back Tris.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
JamHpp
>& white centered around the junction of heart & lungs, designed to
>be pinned on cardboard and fired upon from a few hundred feet with
>whatever shootin'iron is at hand. No use aiming for the brain,
>ain't nothing there.
Actually, I would have place the circles a bit lower, say two feet lower? Make
it sing soprano, briefly.
I agree about the head shots though.
Formerly posting as Lur...@The.Threshold
He's BAA-AACK!!!!
Star Creature
> Hmmm...sounds like one of Salv9's cronies...
Awwww. I missed this one. Deja auto-filtered it. Just as well,
probably; my blood pressure's better off without reading Salv9
imitations!
Star
Tristaan
brain with:
>
>> Hmmm...sounds like one of Salv9's cronies...
>
>Awwww. I missed this one. Deja auto-filtered it. Just as well,
>probably; my blood pressure's better off without reading Salv9
>imitations!
I think he's been here before. Something on the lines of complaining
about a white cop getting shot in New Jersey. <shrug> I agree, that's
a bad thing...but he slanted it to be most definitely an anti-black,
anti-WASP thingie...
Tristaan
Star Creature
> >Awwww. I missed this one. Deja auto-filtered it. Just as well,
> >probably; my blood pressure's better off without reading Salv9
> >imitations!
>
> I think he's been here before. Something on the lines of complaining
> about a white cop getting shot in New Jersey. <shrug> I agree, that's
> a bad thing...but he slanted it to be most definitely an anti-black,
> anti-WASP thingie...
I hate it when people do that. I hate very little, but I hate it when
people hate and turn situations into hating situations when in fact
they may or may not be (and probably aren't). Well, it looks like he's
on his way to having his spam grilled out of cyberspace, so at least
something's being done.
Tristaan
brain with:
>I hate it when people do that. I hate very little, but I hate it when
>people hate and turn situations into hating situations when in fact
>they may or may not be (and probably aren't). Well, it looks like he's
>on his way to having his spam grilled out of cyberspace, so at least
>something's being done.
<sigh> Highly doubtful. The only thing he is guilty of, besides a bit
of cross-posting, is being terminally stupid. It's still legal to
speak your mind in the US, even if you don't have one to begin with.
Star Creature
> <sigh> Highly doubtful. The only thing he is guilty of, besides a bit
> of cross-posting, is being terminally stupid. It's still legal to
> speak your mind in the US, even if you don't have one to begin with.
Don't I know it. The Internet, of course, is not the US and so first
ammendment rights don't really count... But you're probably right.
Dang. I wish there was something we can do; I hate to let these poor
people wander around the Internet. They might run into people less
kind than we... <EG>
Tristaan
brain with:
>Don't I know it. The Internet, of course, is not the US and so first
>ammendment rights don't really count... But you're probably right.
>Dang. I wish there was something we can do; I hate to let these poor
>people wander around the Internet. They might run into people less
>kind than we... <EG>
You mean making an effigy doll of the person and subjecting it to
various tortures is kind? <G>
JamHpp
>various tortures is kind? <G>
>
Better that than tracking them down and torturing them for real.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
. isn't it?
Tristaan
>Better that than tracking them down and torturing them for real.
>
>. isn't it?
Hmmm...a very good question? Who shall we get to test that
hypothesis?
C M
>>You mean making an effigy doll of the person and subjecting it to
>>various tortures is kind? <G>
>>
>
>Better that than tracking them down and torturing them for real.
Especially if you can do do that voodoo that you do so well!
\~^~/
\\|||||//
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\\\\\|///// copper_...@yahoo.com
\\\\|////
\\|//
#
#
# `
# ))
# (( (:B)
# )) )(@ ~*
# (((((@)& The Copper Squirrel in his virtual tree
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Star Creature
> Hmmm...a very good question? Who shall we get to test that
> hypothesis?
Is Salviedorie (Salv9) still around?...
Star Creature
> You mean making an effigy doll of the person and subjecting it to
> various tortures is kind? <G>
Well... Not to the effigy, of course... Better to be virtually burned
in effigy than to be mailbombed or have a virus sent your way that
wipes out everything useful...
D'you know, there are people here who are so upset about Bob Knight
being fired that they burnt an effigy of Myles Brandt (the guy who
fired Coach Knight)? Yeesh. Only in Bloomington.
Tristaan
brain with:
>Is Salviedorie (Salv9) still around?...
Haven't seen him in a dork's age...
Jesse Hein
>D'you know, there are people here who are so upset about Bob Knight
>being fired that they burnt an effigy of Myles Brandt (the guy who
>fired Coach Knight)? Yeesh. Only in Bloomington.
>
And I have some friends throwing parties up in Lafayette. Of course, I
think that after all he did, and got away with, firing him for grabbing
someone by the arm is a bit silly.
--
Jesse
(remove NOSPAM from reply address)
Star Creature
> And I have some friends throwing parties up in Lafayette. Of course,
I
> think that after all he did, and got away with, firing him for
grabbing
> someone by the arm is a bit silly.
Heh. Yeah, I suppose Purdue fans are celebrating.
You can't forget the lecture! Don't forget the lecture! He lectured
the kid about respect! Yeesh. That's what ticks me off, that people
are just as upset about Knight reminding a freshman about respect (call
him "Coach Knight" or "Mr. Knight", not just "Knight") as they are
about the arm-grabbing thing. If the kid doesn't know that a student
is expected to respect a faculty member enough to use a title before
the last name, or for that matter that usually it's polite for a
ninteen-year-old to show that same respect to a sixty-year-old...
Well, I think he deserved a lecture.
Star (feeling opinionated today)
John Oliver
wrote:
>D'you know, there are people here who are so upset about Bob Knight
>being fired that they burnt an effigy of Myles Brandt (the guy who
>fired Coach Knight)? Yeesh. Only in Bloomington.
>
>
>Star
Could a baffled aussie ask what you are talking about? <g>
John (jdol...@aspire.com.au)
ICQ 15071293
Susan Sebranek
"John Oliver" <jdol...@aspire.com.au> wrote in message
news:vpntrs4kuuhmigrqh...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 12 Sep 2000 18:33:07 GMT, Star Creature <sta...@my-deja.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> >D'you know, there are people here who are so upset about Bob Knight
> >being fired that they burnt an effigy of Myles Brandt (the guy who
> >fired Coach Knight)? Yeesh. Only in Bloomington.
> >
> >
> >Star
>
> Could a baffled aussie ask what you are talking about? <g>
>
I believe it's about the great god of American sports called football.
Coaches are fired all the time. I saw the headlines, but sports mean
less than nothing to me. I think having a sports section in a newspaper
is a waste of ink and paper. It's not news, for crying out loud! (But
then, they put Dear Abby and the funnies page in a newspaper, and I do
read that, so go figure. <shrug>)
Susan
Jesse Hein
> <snip>
> > Actually, I agree. I'm no fan of Bobby Knight (when he strangled a kid --
> > THAT'S when they should have tossed his butt on the street).
>
> YES. He should have been fired THEN. At the time that
> video tape was made public, several other students stepped
> forward and claimed that Knight did similar things to them --
> things that would normally be called *ASSULT & BATTERY*.
> Knight should have been fired *THEN*.
>
> >But grabbing
> > him on the arm and lecturing him? I don't care how loudly he (Knight)
> > screamed, that is what a coach does, and is supposed to do. I mean,
> Sheesh!
>
> Yes, *this* infraction shouldn't have been a firing offense, but
> you need to take into account one other thing: after that throttling
> incident, the school instituted a *Zero* *Tolerance* policy with
> Knight's behavior. He was warned that the *next* time he did
> _ANYTHING_ out of line, he would be fired.
>
See the thing is, I don't think he was out of line this time. BUt your
point is taken.
> Ladies and Gentlemen, *this* is why I'm opposed to Zero
> Tolerance policies. The punishment should fit the *crime*
> for goodness sakes!!!
>
> Yes, the SOB should have been removed as coach, but
> he should have been removed MONTHS ago. Waiting until
> he "slipped up" again is just wrong, IMNSHO.
>
> Zero tolerance example: 8th grader expelled from school for
> "pushing drugs" at school with Zero Tolerance Drug Policy.
> Student offered another student *an* *asprin* for a *headache*.
>
In all the schools I attended, I was not allwed to bring any medication to
school. All medication had to be checked through the nurse. If you had a
pill you needed to take hourly or bi-hourly (I did once) you had to get
permission to leave the classroom, go to the nurse, and come
back. Needless to say, this was disruptive of the learning enviroment for
me and others. As this was a decade ago, I hate to think what it must
be like now.
> Or the other example where the 1st grade boy was suspended
> for 2 weeks while the school board considered expulsion.
> School had a ZT Policy on sexual harassment. The 6 yr old
> kissed a 5yr old girl on the cheek, and a teacher saw him.
> (The girl did NOT object, by the way...)
>
Of course, if he had hit her, he would have only gotten a "time-out" in a
corner. "Make war, not love!"
> <carefully getting off her soapbox and hiding it under a table>
>
<She notices several other soapboxes already being hid under there by
several others>
Jesse Hein
-----------
(Remove NOSPAM to reply)
Jesse Hein
> On Wed, 13 Sep 2000 07:40:05 -0400, Woof stomped through my brain
> with:
>
>
> >Zero tolerance example: 8th grader expelled from school for
> >"pushing drugs" at school with Zero Tolerance Drug Policy.
> >Student offered another student *an* *asprin* for a *headache*.
> >
> >Or the other example where the 1st grade boy was suspended
> >for 2 weeks while the school board considered expulsion.
> >School had a ZT Policy on sexual harassment. The 6 yr old
> >kissed a 5yr old girl on the cheek, and a teacher saw him.
> >(The girl did NOT object, by the way...)
> >
> ><carefully getting off her soapbox and hiding it under a table>
>
> <retrieves the soapbox>
>
> Or how about this...
>
> A school in the Philadelphia area has a zero tolerance policy on
> weapons...
>
> A 3rd grader was arrested and hence expelled from school because of
> this policy...
>
> He had a pair of nail clippers...
>
> Tristaan
We always laughed about our school weapons policy. They go to great
lengths telling you this list of silly things you are not allowed to have,
then you walk into math clas and they hand you a compass, metal, with a
*very* sharp point.
(And the class where you are most likely to go nuts!)
Jesse Hein
>
> > > Could a baffled aussie ask what you are talking about? <g>
> > >
> >
> > I believe it's about the great god of American sports called football.
>
> Basketball. Basketball regins in Indiana, not football--especially in
> Bloomington.
>
> Indiana University's head basketball coach was fired a few days ago.
> Jesse's account is mosty accurate, except that the kid said, "Hey,
> what's up, Knight?" Knight's lecture basically came down to telling
> the kid to call him "Coach Knight" or "Mr. Knight", not just "Knight".
> The whole thing is insane--there were riots on campus the night it was
> announced, and as I mentioned, they burned Myles Brandt in effigy.
> Knight seems surprised, but also seems to be taking it fairly well. He
> says he's not done coaching.
>
Its hard following Indiana basketball in CA. Since out here the whole
thing is a joke (and I really can't argue about that, too much) it was
summed up in five words or less.
> > I think having a sports section in a newspaper
> > is a waste of ink and paper. It's not news, for crying out loud!
>
Shhh! <look around furitivly> In Indiana that type of statement can get
you tarred and feathered.
Tristaan
brain with:
>We always laughed about our school weapons policy. They go to great
>lengths telling you this list of silly things you are not allowed to have,
>then you walk into math clas and they hand you a compass, metal, with a
>*very* sharp point.
For that matter, some times the very book bags that students carry
around on a daily basis can be lethal. I mean, they have 20 pounds of
books in there, one good swing and you're in the hospital...
>(And the class where you are most likely to go nuts!)
Hey! I resemble that remark!
Tristaan (Math Pedant)
Star Creature
> Its hard following Indiana basketball in CA. Since out here the whole
> thing is a joke (and I really can't argue about that, too much) it was
> summed up in five words or less.
Whereas here it's been front-page every day since Friday, AFAIK. I saw
a car this morning with "Viva le General!" written in masking tape on
the back window. The local car wash's sign says "Bob Knight Vs IU:
We're Staying Out of It". You can't go anywhere and not hear or see
something about it.
> > > I think having a sports section in a newspaper
> > > is a waste of ink and paper. It's not news, for crying out loud!
> >
> Shhh! <look around furitivly> In Indiana that type of statement can
get
> you tarred and feathered.
No kidding. Right now, sports (read: Basketball) is not only news, it
seems to be the ONLY news. Poor Jill Behrman (student who disappeared
in May and still hasn't been found) isn't even getting much attention
lately. The flyers about rewards for info and stuff are still up, but
no one's talking about it, no one seems to be doing anything--her
disappearance is no longer the biggest gig in town, I guess. That
really makes me sad.
Jesse Hein
>
> seems to be the ONLY news. Poor Jill Behrman (student who disappeared
> in May and still hasn't been found) isn't even getting much attention
> lately. The flyers about rewards for info and stuff are still up, but
> no one's talking about it, no one seems to be doing anything--her
> disappearance is no longer the biggest gig in town, I guess. That
> really makes me sad.
>
there *isn't* much you can do about missing persons. If you don't get a
lead in the initial followup, the chances of informtion dropping in your
lap is dismayingly small.
I often have thought that having some people along the line of the
Finders in Anne McCaffery's Pegasus books would do the world much good. No
more kidnappings, missing people, murders gone unsolved for lack of a
body, or fugitives hiding out for years undetected.
Of course, I've never been sure the cure would not be worse. In the real
world keeping criminals or despots from using the same technology/people
would be impossible. So no more witness protection program, or hiding from
the government, or even from a stalker or abusive husband.
Which always leads me to the question, if you invented such a technology
(mimicks the Finders) would you release it or destroy it? For that matter
in any groundbreaking line of work, especially if done by the "lone
inventor", there is a moment of decision where if you are at all
responsible you try to look at the consequences of what you are about to
do and try to weight the forseen good vs. bad. How do you make such a
decision? Actually this could as easily be applied to political decisions
as well.
Star Creature
> I know what you mean, but unfortantly after the initial investigation,
> there *isn't* much you can do about missing persons. If you don't get
a
> lead in the initial followup, the chances of informtion dropping in
your
> lap is dismayingly small.
I know... It's just that things seemed to still be fairly active as
far as a search, until the whole thing with Bob Knight happened.
That's what disappoints me.
I keep getting this really bad feeling about the whole thing... The
disappearance, I mean, not Knight's stuff.
> Which always leads me to the question, if you invented such a
technology
> (mimicks the Finders) would you release it or destroy it? For that
matter
> in any groundbreaking line of work, especially if done by the "lone
> inventor", there is a moment of decision where if you are at all
> responsible you try to look at the consequences of what you are about
to
> do and try to weight the forseen good vs. bad. How do you make such a
> decision? Actually this could as easily be applied to political
decisions
> as well.
It's difficult to second-guess the future. It's even more difficult to
weigh the forseeable good against the forseeable bad involved in a
decision or invention. I think I'd be doing some long, hard thinking
and a lot of praying (and I'm not usually all that religious, so this
is saying quite a bit). It wouldn't be a decision I could make quickly
or easily. Ultimately, I'm sure that Fate would plan something to
prove me wrong, whichever decision I made...
Susan Sebranek
"Jesse Hein" <jesse...@NOSPAM.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.21.00091...@shay.ecn.purdue.edu...
> > > I think having a sports section in a newspaper
> > > is a waste of ink and paper. It's not news, for crying out loud!
> >
> Shhh! <look around furitivly> In Indiana that type of statement can
get
> you tarred and feathered.
>
Let them come and get me. <shrug>
I've always been opinionated, but the older I get, the less often I
state them out loud. This is just a subject that's irritated me since
High School. I guess I was born in the wrong country. Perhaps I should
start a petition to promote acceptance of comic books, and turn the
local newspaper's sports section into some kind of shared interests
section that covers all kinds of things including sports.
Since I am into comics and writing and drawing, my head is populated by
lots of characters. So, when they come and get me, tell 'em to bring
lots (and I mean a LOT) of butterfly nets. <g>
Susan
Jesse Hein
>
Actually, I agree. I'm no fan of Bobby Knight (when he strangled a kid --
THAT'S when they should have tossed his butt on the street). But grabbing
him on the arm and lecturing him? I don't care how loudly he (Knight)
screamed, that is what a coach does, and is supposed to do. I mean, Sheesh!
--
Jesse Hein
>On Tue, 12 Sep 2000 18:33:07 GMT, Star Creature <sta...@my-deja.com>
>wrote:
>
>
>>D'you know, there are people here who are so upset about Bob Knight
>>being fired that they burnt an effigy of Myles Brandt (the guy who
>>fired Coach Knight)? Yeesh. Only in Bloomington.
>>
>>
>>Star
>
>Could a baffled aussie ask what you are talking about? <g>
>
Coach Bobby Knight is (was) the head coach of the Indiana University men's
basketball. He is well known for throwing raging fits about the referees
(and getting tossed out of the game), the reporters, the players, you name
it. He is also a highly successful coach, whatever else you may say about
him. However, he has had over the years several charges of abuse filed
against him, including recently throttling a player. He has always been
severly reprimended and taken "anger management" classes and gone on much
as before, although IU has been coming under more pressure to control him.
(As a student at their rival team's college, Purdue, I heard about how they
should throw him out more then once. But he is also something of an icon.)
Anyway, he has just retired/been fired over an incident where he was
apperently called "Bobby" by a student and grabbed the student by the arm
and lectured him on respect. The thing is, for once I (and quite a few
others) feel he was in line and firing him over *this*, after everything
else, is ludicrus.
Woof
> Actually, I agree. I'm no fan of Bobby Knight (when he strangled a kid --
> THAT'S when they should have tossed his butt on the street).
YES. He should have been fired THEN. At the time that
video tape was made public, several other students stepped
forward and claimed that Knight did similar things to them --
things that would normally be called *ASSULT & BATTERY*.
Knight should have been fired *THEN*.
>But grabbing
> him on the arm and lecturing him? I don't care how loudly he (Knight)
> screamed, that is what a coach does, and is supposed to do. I mean,
Sheesh!
Yes, *this* infraction shouldn't have been a firing offense, but
you need to take into account one other thing: after that throttling
incident, the school instituted a *Zero* *Tolerance* policy with
Knight's behavior. He was warned that the *next* time he did
_ANYTHING_ out of line, he would be fired.
Ladies and Gentlemen, *this* is why I'm opposed to Zero
Tolerance policies. The punishment should fit the *crime*
for goodness sakes!!!
Yes, the SOB should have been removed as coach, but
he should have been removed MONTHS ago. Waiting until
he "slipped up" again is just wrong, IMNSHO.
Zero tolerance example: 8th grader expelled from school for
"pushing drugs" at school with Zero Tolerance Drug Policy.
Student offered another student *an* *asprin* for a *headache*.
Or the other example where the 1st grade boy was suspended
for 2 weeks while the school board considered expulsion.
School had a ZT Policy on sexual harassment. The 6 yr old
kissed a 5yr old girl on the cheek, and a teacher saw him.
(The girl did NOT object, by the way...)
<carefully getting off her soapbox and hiding it under a table>
> Jesse
--
woof (aka pam) -- woof at vei dot net (home account)
"Reading is power, and power corrupts, and corruption is a crime, and crime
doesn't pay, so if you keep reading, you'll go broke!" -- Dogbert (Scott
Adams)
Tristaan
with:
>Zero tolerance example: 8th grader expelled from school for
>"pushing drugs" at school with Zero Tolerance Drug Policy.
>Student offered another student *an* *asprin* for a *headache*.
>
>Or the other example where the 1st grade boy was suspended
>for 2 weeks while the school board considered expulsion.
>School had a ZT Policy on sexual harassment. The 6 yr old
>kissed a 5yr old girl on the cheek, and a teacher saw him.
>(The girl did NOT object, by the way...)
>
><carefully getting off her soapbox and hiding it under a table>
<retrieves the soapbox>
Or how about this...
A school in the Philadelphia area has a zero tolerance policy on
weapons...
A 3rd grader was arrested and hence expelled from school because of
this policy...
He had a pair of nail clippers...
Tristaan
Woof
>
> Especially if you can do do that voodoo that you do so well!
"
Voodoo lady
Shakin' that stick and drivin' me crazy
Eyes are red and hazy
Doin' that stuff that you do
Messin' me up with your voodoo
You drive me crazy with that
boogyoogyoogyoogyoogyoogyoogyoogy
Star Creature
> > Could a baffled aussie ask what you are talking about? <g>
> >
>
> I believe it's about the great god of American sports called football.
Basketball. Basketball regins in Indiana, not football--especially in
Bloomington.
Indiana University's head basketball coach was fired a few days ago.
Jesse's account is mosty accurate, except that the kid said, "Hey,
what's up, Knight?" Knight's lecture basically came down to telling
the kid to call him "Coach Knight" or "Mr. Knight", not just "Knight".
The whole thing is insane--there were riots on campus the night it was
announced, and as I mentioned, they burned Myles Brandt in effigy.
Knight seems surprised, but also seems to be taking it fairly well. He
says he's not done coaching.
> I think having a sports section in a newspaper
> is a waste of ink and paper. It's not news, for crying out loud!
It is here. Bloomington (where the main Indiana University campus is
located, and all this is happening) has a major thing for sports.
Especially basketball. Sports is definitely news here. I don't follow
it, I don't care for sports, but it's part of living here that
basketball gets front-page headlines sometimes.
Susan Sebranek
"Star Creature" <sta...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8pnttq$f8j$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>
> > > Could a baffled aussie ask what you are talking about? <g>
> > >
> >
> > I believe it's about the great god of American sports called
football.
>
> Basketball. Basketball regins in Indiana, not football--especially in
> Bloomington.
>
Well, like I said, I only saw the headlines. It said a coach was fired.
Around here, the main sport is high school football. During the Friday
night games, they close access to the main road where the closest High
School is so people can exit the parkinglot. When I'm at my parent's
house on those nights and I want to go home, I have to take alternate
routes. Life should not revolve around a stupid game!
Besides, it's usually football coaches who get fired a lot. This is the
first time it's been a Basketball coach. At least, it's the first time
I heard of. But then, I don't follow it or any sport, so I just don't
pay attention to it (until it shows up in headlines).
> Indiana University's head basketball coach was fired a few days ago.
> Jesse's account is mosty accurate, except that the kid said, "Hey,
> what's up, Knight?" Knight's lecture basically came down to telling
> the kid to call him "Coach Knight" or "Mr. Knight", not just "Knight".
> The whole thing is insane--there were riots on campus the night it was
> announced, and as I mentioned, they burned Myles Brandt in effigy.
> Knight seems surprised, but also seems to be taking it fairly well.
He
> says he's not done coaching.
>
> > I think having a sports section in a newspaper
> > is a waste of ink and paper. It's not news, for crying out loud!
>
> It is here. Bloomington (where the main Indiana University campus is
> located, and all this is happening) has a major thing for sports.
> Especially basketball. Sports is definitely news here. I don't
follow
> it, I don't care for sports, but it's part of living here that
> basketball gets front-page headlines sometimes.
>
That's the way it was in Idaho, when I lived there. Those little towns
revolve around sports. But then, I've usually always been the outsider
who never fit in. Being an air force brat, I knew it would be a waste
of time trying to fit in, since I'd be leaving every few years, anyway.
There were several cliques in that school: the cowboys, the townies,
and the military brats.
>
> Star
Susan
Jai of Li
wrote:
>
>"Jesse Hein" <jesse...@NOSPAM.yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:Pine.GSO.4.21.00091...@shay.ecn.purdue.edu...
>
>> > > I think having a sports section in a newspaper
>> > > is a waste of ink and paper. It's not news, for crying out loud!
>> >
>> Shhh! <look around furitivly> In Indiana that type of statement can
>get
>> you tarred and feathered.
>>
>
>Let them come and get me. <shrug>
>
They can come and get me tooo. Grew up in Indiana. Live in Indiana.
Hate Basketball, Football *American*, soccer, tennis, wrestling,
volleyball, baseball, softball, etc.....
But then as the child of two sports officials, and having been dragged
unwilling to many a sport event, perhaps that has colored my view.....
Jai of Li
Daughter of the house of Li
Domestic goddess of ABML
onee chan to a wonderful flying squirrel
President of the ABML happy campers club
Woof
> (mimicks the Finders) would you release it or destroy it? For that matter
> in any groundbreaking line of work, especially if done by the "lone
> inventor", there is a moment of decision where if you are at all
> responsible you try to look at the consequences of what you are about to
> do and try to weight the forseen good vs. bad. How do you make such a
> decision? Actually this could as easily be applied to political decisions
> as well.
I would release it carefully, but to a very BROAD audience.
Once something has been thought of by one person, then someone
else is _guaranteed_ to come up with something very similar.
Maybe not soon, but within a few years (less than 20).
Just look at how many theories were discovered "simultaneously"
by people in very distant areas?
You can't keep something undiscovered for very long once
_somebody_ has made the connection. Period.
So I'd do what Kethry did with that nasty trap spell
she came up with. She sent out the spell *and* it's counter
to every _REPUTABLE_ mage school she knew about.
Knowledge that is buried doesn't stay buried long, so I'd
make sure that the _right_ people know about it *first*.
> Jesse Hein
Jesse Hein
> > Which always leads me to the question, if you invented such a technology
> > (mimicks the Finders) would you release it or destroy it? For that matter
> > in any groundbreaking line of work, especially if done by the "lone
> > inventor", there is a moment of decision where if you are at all
> > responsible you try to look at the consequences of what you are about to
> > do and try to weight the forseen good vs. bad. How do you make such a
> > decision? Actually this could as easily be applied to political decisions
> > as well.
>
> I would release it carefully, but to a very BROAD audience.
> Once something has been thought of by one person, then someone
> else is _guaranteed_ to come up with something very similar.
> Maybe not soon, but within a few years (less than 20).
>
> Just look at how many theories were discovered "simultaneously"
> by people in very distant areas?
>
> You can't keep something undiscovered for very long once
> _somebody_ has made the connection. Period.
>
> So I'd do what Kethry did with that nasty trap spell
> she came up with. She sent out the spell *and* it's counter
> to every _REPUTABLE_ mage school she knew about.
> Knowledge that is buried doesn't stay buried long, so I'd
> make sure that the _right_ people know about it *first*.
>
I'm not so sure of that. Sometimes genius (or luck) lead to making
connections that would have remained unconnected for perhaps forever,
given the current mindset of society. While there are many discoveries
that had multiple simultaneos releases, there are also those that were
loners, and had an uphill battle getting the word out, sometimes not even
recognized until after their deaths.
Even if that is not true, does knowing that someone else would have made
the same discovery make *me* any less responsible if I release it? One
could argue that the atomic bomb would have been invented without Einstein
or any of the particular men who worked on it. Does that mean they should
not take the responsibility of creating it?
And the other side of your argument, about what Kerthy did and what could
be argued for the bomb, means only that the power is not contained *soley*
in the hands of evil, but evil could still use it, or it can even be
misused by good people.
Jesse Hein
-----------
I find television very educating. Every time somebody turns on
the set, I go into the other room and read a book. -- Grouch Marx
(Remove NOSPAM to reply)
Woof
> school and was told about this. My son John got 1 week suspension and
> the new kid got nothing. IMNSHO boys will be boys when it come to I am
> bigger and better then you, its just some boys never out grew it.
<shaking her head> That's just the "my dad can beat up your
dad" thing, and there isn't anything more to it than that. Sometimes
the direction that society is taking us _really_ scares me....
> Nyka: Mother of 8, packrat, WENCH! SPAMuri Warrior!
Woof
> Or how about this...
> A school in the Philadelphia area has a zero tolerance policy on
> weapons...
> A 3rd grader was arrested and hence expelled from school because of
> this policy...
> He had a pair of nail clippers...
Absurd, but not unlikely. I hope the parents of that kid
challenge the school and the school board, even legally
if that's what it takes... <sadly shaking her head>
> Tristaan
Woof
>
> Hey! I resemble that remark!
Tristaan is stunning today in his top hat, cane, and monicle,
and that light, salty scent of peanut oil.....
> Tristaan (Math Pedant)
(Math Peanut)
Woof
> point is taken.
I don't think he was out of line this time. This offense should
*not* have been a firing offense. But throttling that other
student _should_ have been a firing offense, but it wasn't.
Go figure. <shrug>
> Of course, if he had hit her, he would have only gotten a "time-out" in a
> corner. "Make war, not love!"
POINT!
> Jesse Hein
Woof
> connections that would have remained unconnected for perhaps forever,
> given the current mindset of society. While there are many discoveries
> that had multiple simultaneos releases, there are also those that were
> loners, and had an uphill battle getting the word out, sometimes not even
> recognized until after their deaths.
Yes, but recognition usually came when someone else stumbled
onto a similar train of thought or experimentation, and duplicated
the "early" work that led to the original discovery.
> Even if that is not true, does knowing that someone else would have made
> the same discovery make *me* any less responsible if I release it? One
> could argue that the atomic bomb would have been invented without Einstein
> or any of the particular men who worked on it. Does that mean they should
> not take the responsibility of creating it?
They should take the responsibility for creating it, yes. I never said
that I wouldn't take responsibility for my creation. I just said that
if I *had* something that world-changing, I would share it, but
carefully.
From the perspective of the group that created the atomic bomb,
it was a really good invention, because the _threat_ of nuclear
warfare was thought to be the _greatest_ war deterrant *ever*
invented. The _cost_ was many many lives. The _gain_ was
the number of lives that _would_ have been lost if the second
world war had continued, and the number of lives that would
have been lost in the ensuing wars that the "cold war" prevented.
There is never an invention without a cost. There is never
progress without pain of some sort. Period.
Yes, I am still _responsible_ for unleashing something on
the world, but I probably _would_ unleash it, because
there is always that gamble: what if one of the "bad" guys
thinks of this first?
> And the other side of your argument, about what Kerthy did and what could
> be argued for the bomb, means only that the power is not contained *soley*
> in the hands of evil, but evil could still use it, or it can even be
> misused by good people.
*Any* tool can be used and misused. The tool in itself is not
inherently evil. A handgun is not inherently evil. If a cop
shoots a terrorist to defuse a hostage situation, then the _use_
of the gun is good. If a terrorist shoots hostages, then the
_use_ of the gun is evil. The gun itself is neutral.
Would we be better off if guns had never been invented?
Maybe. The world would be different, and there would
be many many less "Americans", because most of those
European early settlers would not have been able to
_catch_ game for dinner.... <shrug>
Woof
Woof
C M
<rmar...@i.hate.spam.ptd.net> wrote:
><snippage>
>
>Hmmm...sounds like one of Salv9's cronies...
>
>Tristaan (wondering what kinda doll THIS guy will make...)
It's the Ouroborous Salv9 doll! It's not good for kicking because
its head is where its Gluteus Maximus ought to be, but its great for
baseball, croquet, polo and mega-golf! With its hardness and circular
thinking it will always roll to the extreme rightwing, so be sure to
apply liberal amounts of bias when hitting it! Available from Brass
Squirrel Enterprises, home of things you never imagined wanting,
needing, using or sharing a planet with! :-)
\~^~/
\\|||||//
\\\\\|/////
\\\\\|///// copper_...@yahoo.com
\\\\|////
\\|//
#
#
# `
# ))
# (( (:B)
# )) )(@ ~*
# (((((@)& The Copper Squirrel in his virtual tree
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Jesse Hein
> Yes, but recognition usually came when someone else stumbled
> onto a similar train of thought or experimentation, and duplicated
> the "early" work that led to the original discovery.
>
Yes, I would agree. 90% of discovery is being in the right place at the
right time with the right tools.
> They should take the responsibility for creating it, yes. I never said
> that I wouldn't take responsibility for my creation. I just said that
> if I *had* something that world-changing, I would share it, but
> carefully.
I never meant you wouldn't. But since there is responsibility, a choice
has to be made whether *I* want to be responsible for the foreseeable
result - even if I think it will eventually (perhaps soon) be found by
someone else.
>
> From the perspective of the group that created the atomic bomb,
> it was a really good invention, because the _threat_ of nuclear
> warfare was thought to be the _greatest_ war deterrant *ever*
> invented. The _cost_ was many many lives. The _gain_ was
> the number of lives that _would_ have been lost if the second
> world war had continued, and the number of lives that would
> have been lost in the ensuing wars that the "cold war" prevented.
Yet Einstein regretted inventing it.
> There is never an invention without a cost. There is never
> progress without pain of some sort. Period.
>
> Yes, I am still _responsible_ for unleashing something on
> the world, but I probably _would_ unleash it, because
> there is always that gamble: what if one of the "bad" guys
> thinks of this first?
>
Agreed.
> *Any* tool can be used and misused. The tool in itself is not
> inherently evil. A handgun is not inherently evil. If a cop
> shoots a terrorist to defuse a hostage situation, then the _use_
> of the gun is good. If a terrorist shoots hostages, then the
> _use_ of the gun is evil. The gun itself is neutral.
>
> Would we be better off if guns had never been invented?
> Maybe. The world would be different, and there would
> be many many less "Americans", because most of those
> European early settlers would not have been able to
> _catch_ game for dinner.... <shrug>
I agree that no tool is inherintly good or bad. I guess the question is
"does more good come of this then bad?" If you think not, then wouldn't it
be your responsibility to try to surpress at least your own results?While
I would not agree, you could even make a case for surpressing someone
else's research (by government). The problem, of course, is that being
human you might be wrong.There may be a good you don't see, like radiation
leading to killing cancer. On the other hand there might be unforseen bad
as well.
I always thought an interesting take on the debate was a short story I
read by Asimov called "Fishbowl" about a device used to look through
time. With my memory for names, both author and title may be incorrect.
Jesse Hein
> It's the Ouroborous Salv9 doll! It's not good for kicking because
> its head is where its Gluteus Maximus ought to be, but its great for
> baseball, croquet, polo and mega-golf! With its hardness and circular
> thinking it will always roll to the extreme rightwing, so be sure to
> apply liberal amounts of bias when hitting it! Available from Brass
> Squirrel Enterprises, home of things you never imagined wanting,
> needing, using or sharing a planet with! :-)
POINT! <ROTFL>
Gyre Hart
>
> Tristaan is stunning today in his top hat, cane, and monicle,
> and that light, salty scent of peanut oil.....
>
> > Tristaan (Math Pedant)
>
> (Math Peanut)
Gyre wanders up, looking only black and white. Plops down a
child and a small piano next to woof, and begins to dance, arms straight
down at his sides and legs blurring.
-gh
--
Playing with a full deck...
unfortunately with no idea what the rules are...
- aa 1520
Woof
<snip triple post material>
Sorry about that, y'all. I only hit the <send> button
once, I swear!
Tristaan
> It's the Ouroborous Salv9 doll! It's not good for kicking because
>its head is where its Gluteus Maximus ought to be, but its great for
>baseball, croquet, polo and mega-golf! With its hardness and circular
>thinking it will always roll to the extreme rightwing, so be sure to
>apply liberal amounts of bias when hitting it! Available from Brass
>Squirrel Enterprises, home of things you never imagined wanting,
>needing, using or sharing a planet with! :-)
Woo-hoo! I'll buy one. How much?
Tristaan (BTW, POINT!)
Tristaan
with:
> Gyre wanders up, looking only black and white. Plops down a
>child and a small piano next to woof, and begins to dance, arms straight
>down at his sides and legs blurring.
<blink> sorry...too obscure for me....NEXT!
Tristaan
with:
>Absurd, but not unlikely. I hope the parents of that kid
>challenge the school and the school board, even legally
>if that's what it takes... <sadly shaking her head>
They did....and lost....that's what makes it even MORE ridiculous that
the court system actually upheld the school decision...
Gyre Hart
> On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 12:15:40 -0700, Gyre Hart stomped through my brain
> with:
>
> > Gyre wanders up, looking only black and white. Plops down a
> >child and a small piano next to woof, and begins to dance, arms straight
> >down at his sides and legs blurring.
>
> <blink> sorry...too obscure for me....NEXT!
>
> Tristaan
<pssst>
Snoopy.
<blink>
Kevin Lighton
> I always thought an interesting take on the debate was a short story I
> read by Asimov called "Fishbowl" about a device used to look through
> time. With my memory for names, both author and title may be incorrect.
I think the story you're thinking of is "The Dead Past" by Asimov.
"Fishbowl" as a title would have been too much of a giveaway of the end.
Ja, mata
--
Kevin Lighton lig...@bestweb.net or shin...@operamail.com
http://members.tripod.com/~shinma_kl/main.html
"Townsfolk can get downright touchy over the occasional earth-elemental in
the scullery. Can't imagine why..." Quenten _Winds of Fate_
Tristaan
with:
>> > Gyre wanders up, looking only black and white. Plops down a
>> >child and a small piano next to woof, and begins to dance, arms straight
>> >down at his sides and legs blurring.
>>
>> <blink> sorry...too obscure for me....NEXT!
>>
>> Tristaan
>
><pssst>
>Snoopy.
>
><blink>
Tristaan re-reads the previous post....and again....suddenly he smacks
himself in the forehead...
...when he wakes up, he turns to Gyre, "You know, my brain just has
not been making those connections lately. I think the 4 hours of
sleep per night are starting to take their toll."
Woof
> > and that light, salty scent of peanut oil.....
> > > Tristaan (Math Pedant)
> >
> > (Math Peanut)
>
> child and a small piano next to woof, and begins to dance, arms straight
> down at his sides and legs blurring.
<SPLORT> POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<helpless giggling>
Woof
> >challenge the school and the school board, even legally
> >if that's what it takes... <sadly shaking her head>
>
> They did....and lost....that's what makes it even MORE ridiculous that
> the court system actually upheld the school decision...
WHAT?!?!?!?!? That's ABSURD!!!
Ok, so what do we have to do to repeal the "nominated for
life" thing that those stupid judges have?!?
> Tristaan
Woof
> has to be made whether *I* want to be responsible for the foreseeable
> result - even if I think it will eventually (perhaps soon) be found by
> someone else.
True.
> > From the perspective of the group that created the atomic bomb,
> > it was a really good invention, because the _threat_ of nuclear
> > warfare was thought to be the _greatest_ war deterrant *ever*
> > invented. The _cost_ was many many lives. The _gain_ was
> > the number of lives that _would_ have been lost if the second
> > world war had continued, and the number of lives that would
> > have been lost in the ensuing wars that the "cold war" prevented.
>
> Yet Einstein regretted inventing it.
And, if I was the inventor, I probably would regret it too.
But I _still_ think that I would regret _inventing_ the
damned thing, but still distribute it. Hypothetically, of course.
<grin>
> I agree that no tool is inherintly good or bad. I guess the question is
> "does more good come of this then bad?" If you think not, then wouldn't it
> be your responsibility to try to surpress at least your own results?
The problem is that we can *not* predict the future. Now, if
I managed to invent something that made crimes against a person
very easy, but I couldn't think of a *good* application for it,
then yes, I'd probably destroy it and move on. But if I invent
something that *I* intend to be used for good, but I can see
how it will be misused, I would probably release it. I guess
my basic tenant is that most people are good, and the few bad
apples should spoil *everything* for the rest of us.
>While
> I would not agree, you could even make a case for surpressing someone
> else's research (by government).
<nodding aggrement> Exactly. Censorship is a *very* dangerous thing.
And once _anything_ gets censored, everything else is suspect....
>The problem, of course, is that being
> human you might be wrong.There may be a good you don't see, like radiation
> leading to killing cancer. On the other hand there might be unforseen bad
> as well.
Or the other way: rock and roll leading to the Spice Girls.
There just isn't any way to know.
> I always thought an interesting take on the debate was a short story I
> read by Asimov called "Fishbowl" about a device used to look through
> time. With my memory for names, both author and title may be incorrect.
Asimov sounds right, but I think it was "The Dead Past." People
spending too much time watching themselves or other loved ones
in the past, instead of doing anything about the _now_....
I've read several short stories based on that premise, so I may
be mixing up details.
> Jesse Hein
Jesse Hein
> Jesse Hein <jesse...@NOSPAM.yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > I always thought an interesting take on the debate was a short story I
> > read by Asimov called "Fishbowl" about a device used to look through
> > time. With my memory for names, both author and title may be incorrect.
>
> I think the story you're thinking of is "The Dead Past" by Asimov.
> "Fishbowl" as a title would have been too much of a giveaway of the end.
You're probably right. I just love the line so much, that's what I thnk of
the story as. At least I got the right author. :^)
Jesse Hein
>
> ...when he wakes up, he turns to Gyre, "You know, my brain just has
> not been making those connections lately. I think the 4 hours of
> sleep per night are starting to take their toll."
You have a baby and are getting 4 hours of sleep?
Either she is really an angel or you are using sleeping pills (on her).
Jesse Hein (always happy to hand a new father a straight line)
Tristaan
with:
>> They did....and lost....that's what makes it even MORE ridiculous that
>> the court system actually upheld the school decision...
>
>WHAT?!?!?!?!? That's ABSURD!!!
Precisely...
>
>Ok, so what do we have to do to repeal the "nominated for
>life" thing that those stupid judges have?!?
Two words:
Smith and Wesson...
Tristaan
brain with:
>You have a baby and are getting 4 hours of sleep?
>Either she is really an angel or you are using sleeping pills (on her).
I never said that I was getting 4 hours of sleep in a row...that'2 4
hours per day....period....<yawn>
>Jesse Hein (always happy to hand a new father a straight line)
Tristaan (too tired to come up with a joke...)
Jesse Hein
> Or the other way: rock and roll leading to the Spice Girls.
> There just isn't any way to know.
>
I am just hoping this isn't your example of an unforseen *good*
event. :^)
But seriously, you make some good points. I'll have to think about
it. (Ethics is such a *tricky* subject.)
> > I always thought an interesting take on the debate was a short story I
> > read by Asimov called "Fishbowl" about a device used to look through
> > time. With my memory for names, both author and title may be incorrect.
>
> Asimov sounds right, but I think it was "The Dead Past." People
> spending too much time watching themselves or other loved ones
> in the past, instead of doing anything about the _now_....
> I've read several short stories based on that premise, so I may
> be mixing up details.
>
I hope I'm not spoiling it for anyone, but the thing I remeber about it is
that the government was keeping tight control of the technology for and
leading to a device to look into the past. A scientist along with a few
friends decides this is unfair as it is impeding his work, so he
independently develops and publishes the device, using another technology
as a basis. To late he finds out that not only is it liable to be used (as
demonstrated by his wife being obsessed by their dead daughter) to be
morbid about the past. He also finds out that it works better the more
recent the time was, and as is pointed out by the government agent who
gets there too late to stop him from publishing, the "past" starts an
instant ago, making it the perfect spy tool. The final line, and the one
that sticks in my head, is said by the agent as he walks out the door:
"Welcome to the fishbowl, gentleman"
Jesse Hein
Jesse Hein
> On Fri, 15 Sep 2000 11:04:44 -0500, Jesse Hein stomped through my
> brain with:
>
> >Jesse Hein (always happy to hand a new father a straight line)
>
> Tristaan (too tired to come up with a joke...)
No, no. You are supposed to exclaim "Of COURSE she's an angel." You slept
through the new father guidance course, huh? ;^)
Tristaan
brain with:
>> >Jesse Hein (always happy to hand a new father a straight line)
>>
>> Tristaan (too tired to come up with a joke...)
>
>No, no. You are supposed to exclaim "Of COURSE she's an angel." You slept
>through the new father guidance course, huh? ;^)
WEll, I thought it was obvious that she was an angel. At least that's
what I see...
and I dare you to say anything different...<glare>
Tristaan
Iva
>Woof wrote:
>>Ok, so what do we have to do to repeal the "nominated for
>>life" thing that those stupid judges have?!?
>
>Two words:
>
>Smith and Wesson...
Coughdrops and cooking oil? Ooooo, that's _really_ kinky! (evil evil feline
smirk)
Purrt the ghatta
Newest Disciple to the Goddess of Chocococolate
Owner of a Full Pedant's Licens/ce
JamHpp
>>life" thing that those stupid judges have?!?
>
>Two words:
>
>Smith and Wesson...
Nah, I prefer Remington or Winchester. Do the job just as completely, from a
longer distance so you can get away with it <grin>
Actually an even better tool might be a Weatherby.
Formerly posting as Lur...@The.Threshold
He's BAA-AACK!!!!
Woof
> > There just isn't any way to know.
> >
> I am just hoping this isn't your example of an unforseen *good*
> event. :^)
NONONONONO! That was my example for a *good*
thing that was released that generated a VERY VERY bad
use!
(And, I will admit, I have been caught humming a couple
of their songs, but I don't have to claim to like it! <stare>)
> But seriously, you make some good points. I'll have to think about
> it. (Ethics is such a *tricky* subject.)
Yes, quite complicated. And the only way to actually get
to a proper decision is through discussion like this..... I may
not always agree with what you have said, but I *am* enjoying
our discussion.
> > Asimov sounds right, but I think it was "The Dead Past." People
<snip>The final line, and the one
> that sticks in my head, is said by the agent as he walks out the door:
> "Welcome to the fishbowl, gentleman"
Yes, that sounds right. As I said, I've read a few along
those lines, and the details tend to get mixed up. I remembered
the obsession with the dead daughter (and the house fire),
but I couldn't remember the rest of the setup.
One of the other stories (that I was mixing with Asimov's)
revolved around a new drug that enabled you to "relive"
any memory that you had. You concentrate on the moment
in time you want to relive, pop the cork and breathe deeply.
The story showed in detail the ruin this drug caused in the
US (and virtually everywhere except China, where is was
outlawed with deadly force (and some hints about China
being the inventor and producer of the drug)), because
people are all too willing to live in the happy moments of
their past instead of dealing with the dreary day-to-day
of the present.... Still makes me shudder thinking about it.
Woof
> >life" thing that those stupid judges have?!?
>
> Two words:
> Smith and Wesson...
(that's actually three words, but I won't ding you for that)
A hammer-maker and some vegetable oil? How will that help?
Actually, Tris, your answer made me a bit uneasy. Just saw
the Dateline (or something) show last week about the lawsuit
filed by the abortion doctors against the anti-abortion group.
Quick details: Anti-abortion group published a poster with
12 doctors names and *home* addresses, with words
on the posters that actually said that these "murderers"
must be stopped, by any means necessary. The doctors
sued the anti-abortion group for making death threats.
The group said that no threat was made or implied.
The doctors point out that the last two posters _this_
group has published has resulted in:
poster 1 -> that doctor shot and killed,
poster 2 -> that doctor shot and killed,
poster 3 -> DEATH THREAT.
The case is ongoing.
I'm probably just overreacting to your comment, Tris,
but it just made me wonder.....
> Tristaan
Woof
> Either she is really an angel or you are using sleeping pills (on her).
>
Just make sure you don't hand him a straight pin -- only
baby-safe diaper pins please!
Tristaan
with:
>Just make sure you don't hand him a straight pin -- only
>baby-safe diaper pins please!
Because of time restraints and such, we're going with the
disposables...with the way Charis has been, we don't know WHEN we
would have been able to wash all those diapers let alone be able to
afford a diaper service.
Tristaan
>Coughdrops and cooking oil? Ooooo, that's _really_ kinky! (evil evil feline
>smirk)
Depends on where you apply the coughdrops...
Tristaan (whaaaat?)
Tristaan
with:
<snippage>
>I'm probably just overreacting to your comment, Tris,
>but it just made me wonder.....
Clarification: I am in _no_ way advocating violence against another
person. I'm sorry, but that just defeats the whole purpose of trying
to _correct_ the problems of society.
I'm sorry if my comment caused unease, it was meant as a jest. In
fact, I abhor the use of violence for any means. As a Mennonite, I
personally abhor war and related violences as a matter of faith and
principle. I take "Thou shalt not murder" to it's extreme when
concerning human life.
Tristaan
Woof
> >but it just made me wonder.....
>
> Clarification: I am in _no_ way advocating violence against another
> person. I'm sorry, but that just defeats the whole purpose of trying
> to _correct_ the problems of society.
<whew!> Exactly. Just checking, dear.
> I'm sorry if my comment caused unease, it was meant as a jest. In
> fact, I abhor the use of violence for any means. As a Mennonite, I
> personally abhor war and related violences as a matter of faith and
> principle. I take "Thou shalt not murder" to it's extreme when
> concerning human life.
As I have said before, _tone_ is difficult to convey in a
newsgroup. Besides, I _was_ confused that you would say
such a thing, because it seemed to be very much not like you...
Glad I checked. I feel better now.
> Tristaan
C M
<rmar...@i.hate.spam.ptd.net> wrote:
>On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 11:42:23 -0700, C M stomped through my brain with:
>
>> It's the Ouroborous Salv9 doll! It's not good for kicking because
>>its head is where its Gluteus Maximus ought to be, but its great for
>>baseball, croquet, polo and mega-golf! With its hardness and circular
>>thinking it will always roll to the extreme rightwing, so be sure to
>>apply liberal amounts of bias when hitting it! Available from Brass
>>Squirrel Enterprises, home of things you never imagined wanting,
>>needing, using or sharing a planet with! :-)
>
>Woo-hoo! I'll buy one. How much?
>
Just $99.99 for 99 months....
\~^~/
\\|||||//
\\\\\|/////
\\\\\|///// copper_...@yahoo.com
\\\\|////
\\|//
#
#
# `
# ))
# (( (:B)
# )) )(@ ~*
# (((((@)& The Copper Squirrel in his virtual tree
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Gyre Hart
> > >I'm probably just overreacting to your comment, Tris,
> > >but it just made me wonder.....
> >
> > Clarification: I am in _no_ way advocating violence against another
> > person. I'm sorry, but that just defeats the whole purpose of trying
> > to _correct_ the problems of society.
>
> <whew!> Exactly. Just checking, dear.
<smile>
You know, I've never understood that... This is in agreement
with Tris, btw. I've never understood the whole "I will fight for peace"
thing, or the "I believe in the sanctity of life, so I will kill anyone
who is a murderer in my eyes". Wierd.
> > I'm sorry if my comment caused unease, it was meant as a jest. In
> > fact, I abhor the use of violence for any means. As a Mennonite, I
> > personally abhor war and related violences as a matter of faith and
> > principle. I take "Thou shalt not murder" to it's extreme when
> > concerning human life.
>
> As I have said before, _tone_ is difficult to convey in a
> newsgroup. Besides, I _was_ confused that you would say
> such a thing, because it seemed to be very much not like you...
I thought so, too. But then I assumed, knowing Tris, it was a
joke. <smile>
On a slight tangent... I can't remember who said it, but some
one once noted the people to fear the most were the pacificst, because
they would do anything to stop violence. I think it was Spider Robinson
I first saw say this, and you know in some cases I have to agree.
<smile>
And I get to say that... I am a pacificst. A strange path I am
never sure I've gotten right. A constant struggle. <shrug>
Jesse Hein
> > >Ok, so what do we have to do to repeal the "nominated for
> > >life" thing that those stupid judges have?!?
> >
> > Two words:
> > Smith and Wesson...
>
> Actually, Tris, your answer made me a bit uneasy. Just saw
> the Dateline (or something) show last week about the lawsuit
> filed by the abortion doctors against the anti-abortion group.
<snip details>
I'll admit, I laughed, but it made me uneasy as well. I know *he* didn't
mean it, but when you think about it. . .
Jesse Hein
> (And, I will admit, I have been caught humming a couple
> of their songs, but I don't have to claim to like it! <stare>)
Ahem, yes. Well, just between you and me, I have *somehow* aquired a CD of
theirs. I find the songs catchy (mostly) even though I don't think much of
the group. But then, I try to keep my feelings about many artists seperate
from their work. There are artists I despise recodings songs I love, and
visa versa.
> > But seriously, you make some good points. I'll have to think about
> > it. (Ethics is such a *tricky* subject.)
>
> Yes, quite complicated. And the only way to actually get
> to a proper decision is through discussion like this..... I may
> not always agree with what you have said, but I *am* enjoying
> our discussion.
And, depending on the day and my mood, *I* don't always agree with what I
say. :^)
> One of the other stories (that I was mixing with Asimov's)
> revolved around a new drug that enabled you to "relive"
> any memory that you had. You concentrate on the moment
> in time you want to relive, pop the cork and breathe deeply.
> The story showed in detail the ruin this drug caused in the
> US (and virtually everywhere except China, where is was
> outlawed with deadly force (and some hints about China
> being the inventor and producer of the drug)), because
> people are all too willing to live in the happy moments of
> their past instead of dealing with the dreary day-to-day
> of the present.... Still makes me shudder thinking about it.
I was thinking much the same thought the other day about VR. It was one of
those trains of thought that start out "Wouldn't it be nice. . ." and end
"Would it?"
The basic thought was based on a Direct Nueral Interface designed for VR
based on a book by James Hogan. The interesting thing (at least I had
never heard it anywhere else) was he positied the ability to get a faster
time rate though DNI, about 200 minutes virtual time to 1 real time.
I was thinking about how setting up a role-playing game with such a system
would be kinda cool, but if you spend more time in the virtual world then
the real world, I have the feeling the virtual would become more real then
real for most people. Why would most people stay in the real world? And if
you designed such a system, you would have to do something to encourage
people not to lose touch with the real world, but I'm not sure what
incentive you could offer.
Iva
<major snippage>
>I was thinking much the same thought the other day about VR. It was one of
>those trains of thought that start out "Wouldn't it be nice. . ." and end
>"Would it?"
>would be kinda cool, but if you spend more time in the virtual world then
>the real world, I have the feeling the virtual would become more real then
>real for most people. Why would most people stay in the real world? And if
>you designed such a system, you would have to do something to encourage
>people not to lose touch with the real world, but I'm not sure what
>incentive you could offer.
That's very close to the story line in Tad Williams' newest series
"Otherland", where some of his characters have been "trapped" in VR. Very
dark series with flashes of occasional brilliance. Darker than his first
series too.
Jesse Hein
> That's very close to the story line in Tad Williams' newest series
> "Otherland", where some of his characters have been "trapped" in VR. Very
> dark series with flashes of occasional brilliance. Darker than his first
> series too.
I avoid Tad Williams. I don't particularly like dark books, in general. I
prefer happy, or at least optimistic, endings.
Tristaan
>That's very close to the story line in Tad Williams' newest series
>"Otherland", where some of his characters have been "trapped" in VR. Very
>dark series with flashes of occasional brilliance. Darker than his first
>series too.
I love that series. The scary thing is how close modern technology is
to what he is potraying in that book. I'm having a hard time figuring
out if Otherland is fantasy or sci-fi...it has elements of both.
Jesse Hein
> On Fri, 15 Sep 2000 12:02:35 -0500, Jesse Hein stomped through my
> brain with:
>
> >> >Jesse Hein (always happy to hand a new father a straight line)
> >>
> >> Tristaan (too tired to come up with a joke...)
> >
> >No, no. You are supposed to exclaim "Of COURSE she's an angel." You slept
> >through the new father guidance course, huh? ;^)
>
> WEll, I thought it was obvious that she was an angel. At least that's
> what I see...
>
> and I dare you to say anything different...<glare>
All babies are angels. Love them. I have yet to go to your web site to
check out her picture, but I'm sure she's adorable.
Then at 2 they metamophasize to demons, or is that 12?
Iva
>Iva wrote:
>
>>That's very close to the story line in Tad Williams' newest series
>>"Otherland", where some of his characters have been "trapped" in VR. Very
>>dark series with flashes of occasional brilliance. Darker than his first
>>series too.
>
>I love that series. The scary thing is how close modern technology is
>to what he is potraying in that book. I'm having a hard time figuring
>out if Otherland is fantasy or sci-fi...it has elements of both.
Exactly! That's one of the things that I really like about this series. It
could, possibly, maybe, perhaps, happen. Guess we'll have to wait for the
next book in the series to find out.
Captain Wolf
: >Ok, so what do we have to do to repeal the "nominated for
: >>life" thing that those stupid judges have?!?
: >
: >Two words:
: >
: >Smith and Wesson...
: Nah, I prefer Remington or Winchester. Do the job just as completely, from a
: longer distance so you can get away with it <grin>
: Actually an even better tool might be a Weatherby.
Naaaaaahhhhhh. Drop a rock on them. Hmmmmmmmmm. Now what did I do with
Little David's Sling.
Wolf,
Bard
--
******
Goddess of Fall
SuperKlutz
Linux - Choice of a GNU generation
prpldrgn
Jesse Hein <jesse...@NOSPAM.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.21.000915...@shay.ecn.purdue.edu...
I thought it was both but maybe it is neither...
Woofster, how old are you?
--
prpldrgn
the small dragon who likes to get into trouble.
C M
<jdol...@aspire.com.au> wrote:
>On 15 Sep 2000 23:23:28 GMT, capta...@monarchy.modusvarious.com
>(Captain Wolf) wrote:
>
>
>>: >Smith and Wesson...
>>
>>: Nah, I prefer Remington or Winchester.
>
>>: Actually an even better tool might be a Weatherby.
>
>I recognize Smith and Wesson, Remington and Winchester, but what is a
>Weatherby?
>
I don't know. I prefer a Webley .455 myself.
John Oliver
(Captain Wolf) wrote:
>: >Smith and Wesson...
>
>: Nah, I prefer Remington or Winchester.
>: Actually an even better tool might be a Weatherby.
I recognize Smith and Wesson, Remington and Winchester, but what is a
Weatherby?
John (jdol...@aspire.com.au)
ICQ 15071293
Captain Wolf
: On 15 Sep 2000 23:23:28 GMT, capta...@monarchy.modusvarious.com
: (Captain Wolf) wrote:
I did NOT write this. **I** said to drop a big rock on them. <sniffle>
NOW people are saying I said things I didn't <sniffle><sniffle><sniffle>
: >: >Smith and Wesson...
: >
: >: Nah, I prefer Remington or Winchester.
: >: Actually an even better tool might be a Weatherby.
: I recognize Smith and Wesson, Remington and Winchester, but what is a
: Weatherby?
Wolf, the put upon <G>,
JamHpp
>person. I'm sorry, but that just defeats the whole purpose of trying
>to _correct_ the problems of society.
>
I'm with Tristaan on this one, I was just adding to the joke and not intending
to cause any unease myself. The only way to _legititmately_ solve the "judge
for life" problem is to get congress off of their collective a$$e$ and change
the blasted law.
JamHpp
>those trains of thought that start out "Wouldn't it be nice. . ." and end
>"Would it?"
>
>based on a book by James Hogan. The interesting thing (at least I had
>never heard it anywhere else) was he positied the ability to get a faster
>time rate though DNI, about 200 minutes virtual time to 1 real time.
>
>would be kinda cool, but if you spend more time in the virtual world then
>the real world, I have the feeling the virtual would become more real then
>real for most people. Why would most people stay in the real world? And if
>you designed such a system, you would have to do something to encourage
>people not to lose touch with the real world, but I'm not sure what
>incentive you could offer.
Sort of like the "wireheading" problem in Niven's Known Space series. That
problem took care of itself, in the books at least. Those with a tendency to
become a "current addict" tended _not_ to breed. Unlike the drug problems in
the real world.
Brian Brunner
::On 15 Sep 2000 23:23:28 GMT, capta...@monarchy.modusvarious.com
::(Captain Wolf) wrote:
::
::
::>: >Smith and Wesson...
::>
::>: Nah, I prefer Remington or Winchester.
::
::>: Actually an even better tool might be a Weatherby.
::
::I recognize Smith and Wesson, Remington and Winchester, but what is a
::Weatherby?
Brand of rifles, generally used for African big game.
I don't know of a Weatherby rifle where "Weatherby" isn't followed by
"magnum".
=====================================================
Brian. ABML Brute Squad Badge #11 (Nuclear Ordinance Division)
The (MisSpelled) High Priest Conscript of the Goddess of Libraries
Pedant (target) most likely to experience self-inflicted mishaps.
Discoverer of the Fountain of Chocolate (Innocent!)
Klein Bottle for Rent. Enquire Within.
The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck,
is the day they start making vacuum cleaners.
John Oliver
(Captain Wolf) wrote:
>John Oliver (reaching for the coffee) wrote:
>: On 15 Sep 2000 23:23:28 GMT, capta...@monarchy.modusvarious.com
>
>: (Captain Wolf) wrote:
>
>I did NOT write this. **I** said to drop a big rock on them. <sniffle>
>NOW people are saying I said things I didn't <sniffle><sniffle><sniffle>
> Wolf, the put upon <G>,
> Bard
Sorry, I was piggybacking on your post.
OOPS! Back kinkies Back!!!
John (jdol...@aspire.com.au)
ICQ 15071293
JamHpp
>Weatherby?
An extremely accurate hunting Rifle. Also favored by the fictional character
Mack Bolan in the Executioner series of books
JamHpp
>I don't know of a Weatherby rifle where "Weatherby" isn't followed by
>"magnum".
Actually, they _have_ started to make some non magnum rifles. I think trying
to get a bit more of the deer hunting market. Still cost some serious $$$$$
though. Take a look at www.weatherby.com
Mummy Az
<jesse...@NOSPAM.yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 15 Sep 2000, Tristaan wrote:
>> WEll, I thought it was obvious that she was an angel. At least that's
>> what I see...
>>
>> and I dare you to say anything different...<glare>
>
>All babies are angels. Love them. I have yet to go to your web site to
>check out her picture, but I'm sure she's adorable.
>
>Then at 2 they metamophasize to demons, or is that 12?
>
>Jesse Hein
Well, Ishtar-Goddess started her metamorphosis at 8 months. At 4.5,
she's *just* starting to come out the other side. I'm NOT looking
forward to her hitting puberty. She's *way* too much like my sister
(whom she has never met) for me to feel happy or comfortable about the
coming years.
Az
--
There are truths which are not for all men, nor for all time.
Voltaire
Woof
> would be kinda cool, but if you spend more time in the virtual world then
> the real world, I have the feeling the virtual would become more real then
> real for most people. Why would most people stay in the real world? And if
> you designed such a system, you would have to do something to encourage
> people not to lose touch with the real world, but I'm not sure what
> incentive you could offer.
Sounds very much like the "wireheads" premise. Addiction took care
of itself, because they refused to come out of VR for food anymore...
Scary stuff.
> Jesse Hein
Woof
> And I get to say that... I am a pacificst. A strange path I am
> never sure I've gotten right. A constant struggle. <shrug>
Gyre, you came *thiiiiiiiiiiiiis* close to temporarially becoming
a pacifier.....
> -gh
Woof
> > check out her picture, but I'm sure she's adorable.
> > Then at 2 they metamophasize to demons, or is that 12?
> > Jesse Hein
>
> Woofster, how old are you?
Huh?!? Are you trying to find out at what point *I*
metamorphed from angel to demon? About age 0.5.
(I'm now 27.)
> prpldrgn
> the small dragon who likes to get into trouble.
Tristaan
brain with:
>All babies are angels. Love them. I have yet to go to your web site to
>check out her picture, but I'm sure she's adorable.
Actually, there is a pretty decent pictoral history on the ABML Family
page. If you need access, let me know. It's at www.myfamily.com
Tristaan
with:
> <smile>
> You know, I've never understood that... This is in agreement
>with Tris, btw. I've never understood the whole "I will fight for peace"
>thing, or the "I believe in the sanctity of life, so I will kill anyone
>who is a murderer in my eyes". Wierd.
<nod> That's kinda why that whole mess in Bosnia recently just didn't
make any sense.
"You're killing a bunch of innocent people. That's wrong. Here's
about 200 tons of bombs to prove it."
> I thought so, too. But then I assumed, knowing Tris, it was a
>joke. <smile>
<G> Good. <G>
> On a slight tangent... I can't remember who said it, but some
>one once noted the people to fear the most were the pacificst, because
>they would do anything to stop violence. I think it was Spider Robinson
>I first saw say this, and you know in some cases I have to agree.
><smile>
> And I get to say that... I am a pacificst. A strange path I am
>never sure I've gotten right. A constant struggle. <shrug>
I don't consider myself a pacifist. That has a connotation in the
world of "woosiness". I consider my self a follower of
non-resistance.