Moving ABML to the Rec Hierarchy?
Kat Hein
for a usenet service..." thread: Thanks to the governor of NY putting
pressure on ISP's to stop carrying the binary groups (and I suspect the
ISP's being more than happy to comply, to free up the bandwidth) Verizon
has announced that they will no longer carry the ALT hierarchy, or
anything other than "the big 8" and it's possible that other ISP's will
follow Verizon's stupid move.
As a result, it's been suggested that we might want to move over to the
Rec Hierarchy. This plan was first suggested circa 1996, according to
William George Ferguson, but at that point, the Powers That Be wouldn't
let ABML move to rec.arts.books.m-lackey, but said their structure
system would put us under rec.arts.sf.written.m-lackey. Apparently there
was much heated debate and flames about it because people didn't want to
become RASWML and the move eventually got tabled.
Well, we don't get into massive wars like that around here anymore, but
I still want to hear opinions, just in case. :) Personally, I think not
liking the new name of the group isn't a compelling reason not to move
when staying could mean that eventually only a couple people would be
able to access ABML for free (other than via the joke that is google
groups) But ABML does have a long history, and maybe it would be too
hard for people to get used to the new name and digs.
So what does everyone think? Should we move over to Rec, even if it
means that likely we'd become RASWML, or should we only move if we can
become RAMBL, or not move at all? All opinions and suggestions are
welcome! :)
Kat-who-really-needs-to find-her-sig
Barry Ruck
To be absoluitly honest, this only affects US ISPs.
If you really want access, then take up an account with individual.net,
which is what I did when my ISP's news servers were really flaky.
--
Reality is what you bump into in the dark. - Raymond E. Feist
Barry Ruck - Harlow, Essex. UK.
John Oliver
I agree. And if we do move the group, how long would it take for news
servers to pick up the new group?
--
John Oliver
jdol...@westnet.com.au
AIM or MSN jdoliver98
Kat Hein
Ah, so you're okay with only you, Az ,John, Dave, et al having free
access to ABML and the rest of us can pay or not have access? Just as
long as it doesn't effect you?
I guess I thought better of the remaining ABML denizens than you do of
those of us in the U.S.
Kat
Dave Joll
> Barry Ruck wrote:
>> To be absoluitly honest, this only affects US ISPs.
>> If you really want access, then take up an account with individual.net,
>> which is what I did when my ISP's news servers were really flaky.
> Ah, so you're okay with only you, Az ,John, Dave, et al having free access
> to ABML and the rest of us can pay or not have access? Just as long as it
> doesn't effect you?
Actually Australia's got something similar going on -
when ihug.co.nz got taken over by tig.com.au, they
dropped all the alt.binaries.* groups, citing Australian
law - and I wouldn't put it past the current incompetents
in charge to mysteriously lose the rest of them at some point.
Barry Ruck
No. Quite simply what will happen is this. The new group will (
eventually ) be formed. It will eventually propogate it's way through
Usenet.
In the mean time, people will continue to find and use a.b.m.l
Eventually, there will be different people using both.
The reason for this is quite simple. Despite the wishes of US
politicians, the rest of the world will not go away, nor will we bow
down to their dictates. Usenet groups do not dissapear, they stay
there. Just see how many servers *still* have a feed for
soc.genealogy.uk+ireland
Bearing in mind that this was a "big 8" group that was supposedly
split and then killed off years ago.
If YOU have a problem, then, I am sorry, but YOU will have to sort it
out.
I am not being anti US, or anything else, but what the hell, I don't
like the climate in Canada - let's try moving the Gulf Stream !!!!
And actually Kat, I thought better of you, but perhaps I was wrong.
Edna
Hey, no fighting allowed here! The Internet is known for frequent
misinterpretations, due to the lack of face-to-face contact, and I think
there's been some on both ends here. Kat & Beldin, as a member of the
Brute Squad, Mommy Division, I hereby order y'all to apologize to each
other now, or go to your rooms and stay there until dinner :-)
1. As Beldin points out, yes, this only affects US customers of Verizon
right now, which is a small subset of our group. But, you never know
what the future holds for you and your ISP. (I certainly have my doubts
about my current ISP.) Dave Joll has already given us an example of
alt.* suppression starting in Australia, too.
2. Beldin is also correct that a.b.m-l will not just disappear, due to
the nature of Usenet. I propose that we keep a current FAQ and link to
the new group in a.b.m-l, so that new and returning members can find us,
if they choose.
3. I have assumed that everyone here will make the move with us? I see
no reason not to, but please enlighten me if you don't want to move.
4. No flames allowed :-)
Edna
---|)--- Edna Huelsenbeck (huelsenbeck@gmailDOTcom) ------------
---|---- Goddess of the ABML Out-of-Practice-Musicians Band -----
--/|---- Member, Brute Squad, Mommy Division --------------------
-| |')-- Provisional Member of the Sisterhood of Mess -----------
--\|/----Official Bard of the Book and Bridle -------------------
|
'
Mummy Az
wrote:
>Ah, so you're okay with only you, Az ,John, Dave, et al having free
>access to ABML and the rest of us can pay or not have access? Just as
>long as it doesn't effect you?
>
>I guess I thought better of the remaining ABML denizens than you do of
>those of us in the U.S.
>
>Kat
Actually, I already have to pay in order to get ABML. It's not
carried by my local server and although I have asked them to add it
they have yet to do so (and I've been with my current ISP for over a
year now so I'm not holding my breath).
I consider the small amount I pay per month to be well worth the
inconvenience of getting the group.
Az
Mummy Az
wrote:
Having double-checked, it's actually one of my OTHER groups that
resulted in my purchasing newsfeed. The sentiment remains, though. It
was worth it TO ME to do this. Other people will work out whether or
not it is worth it TO THEM to change abml to something different or to
buy a newsfeed from somewhere other than their ISP or to change ISPs
or whatever.
If abml becomes rabml or something else I suspect it will be my
paid-for newsfeed that will carry it soonest! Their response to each
request I've put in for them to carry something has been 'sure thing,
there you go' within 24 hours of putting in the request.
Az
SAMK
It is a matter of supreme indifference to me. Just tell me where
to find y'all, and I'll be there if I can.
SAMK
Joyce Haslam
> > So what does everyone think? Should we move over to Rec, even
> > if it means that likely we'd become RASWML, or should we only
> > move if we can become RAMBL, or not move at all? All opinions
> > and suggestions are welcome! :)
> It is a matter of supreme indifference to me. Just tell me where
> to find y'all, and I'll be there if I can.
Ditto from this lurker.
Joyce Haslam.
--
"The spear in the Other's heart is in your own: you are he." -- Surak
@aloha.net Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
news:xSR7k.10113$jI5....@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...
I don't mind moving. If RASWML or RABML or whatever turns up, I'll go
there.
I don't mind staying, either. I'll probably do that even if we move,
since I doubt anyone will delete ABML in the process.
All I care about is that somebody else does the paperwork. {Smile, wink}
> Kat-who-really-needs-to find-her-sig
Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
@aloha.net Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
"SAMK" <dima...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Aq2dnVqUxv35-v3V...@comcast.com...
Yes, exactly. Thank you for saying it better than I did! {BIG SMILE}
Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
> SAMK
@aloha.net Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
"Dave Joll" <do...@bother.trying> wrote in message
news:g3oune$57d$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
> "Kat Hein" <katen...@yahoo.com> wrote
>
>> Barry Ruck wrote:
>
>>> To be absoluitly honest, this only affects US ISPs.
>>> If you really want access, then take up an account with individual.net,
>>> which is what I did when my ISP's news servers were really flaky.
>
>> Ah, so you're okay with only you, Az ,John, Dave, et al having free
>> access
>> to ABML and the rest of us can pay or not have access? Just as long as it
>> doesn't effect you?
>
> Actually Australia's got something similar going on -
I'm afraid I'm not surprised. Censorship has never been limited to one
country before. {half-smile}
> when ihug.co.nz got taken over by tig.com.au, they
> dropped all the alt.binaries.* groups, citing Australian
> law - and I wouldn't put it past the current incompetents
> in charge to mysteriously lose the rest of them at some point.
How is your reception of the Big-8 newsgroups? I found an official list
here: http://moleski.net/newsgroups/checkgroups/list.htm Not that I expect
you to go thru the whole thing, but I'd like to know how rec.arts.* fares.
If we're going to bother to move, I'd like to feel sure you'd get the new
group. {Smile}
Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
@aloha.net Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
"Mummy Az" <ma...@westnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:o0o0645gf63sjcrae...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:46:21 +0930, Mummy Az <ma...@westnet.com.au>
> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 12:27:05 -0700, Kat Hein <katen...@yahoo.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Ah, so you're okay with only you, Az ,John, Dave, et al having free
>>>access to ABML and the rest of us can pay or not have access? Just as
>>>long as it doesn't effect you?
>>>
>>>I guess I thought better of the remaining ABML denizens than you do of
>>>those of us in the U.S.
>>>
>>>Kat
>>
>>Actually, I already have to pay in order to get ABML. It's not
>>carried by my local server and although I have asked them to add it
>>they have yet to do so (and I've been with my current ISP for over a
>>year now so I'm not holding my breath).
>>
>>I consider the small amount I pay per month to be well worth the
>>inconvenience of getting the group.
>>
>>Az
>
> Having double-checked, it's actually one of my OTHER groups that
> resulted in my purchasing newsfeed.
That's nice to know. {smile}
> The sentiment remains, though. It
> was worth it TO ME to do this. Other people will work out whether or
> not it is worth it TO THEM to change abml to something different or to
> buy a newsfeed from somewhere other than their ISP or to change ISPs
> or whatever.
I understand... but I'm concerned about excluding folks because they
can't afford the money required to keep up with us. {half-smile}
> If abml becomes rabml or something else I suspect it will be my
> paid-for newsfeed that will carry it soonest! Their response to each
> request I've put in for them to carry something has been 'sure thing,
> there you go' within 24 hours of putting in the request.
That's nice to know. A responsive provider is so nice to find! {Smile}
So... how are the two groups' coverage of Big-8 groups? I found a list
here: http://moleski.net/newsgroups/checkgroups/list.htm and I'm mainly
concerned with rec.arts. It looks a little small, but that's a secondary
concern. I mainly want to be sure folks are getting what's supposed to be
there. {Smile}
Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
> Az
Bruce Glassford
There's also web-based alternatives - a.b.m.l is carried in Google
Groups (easy to search the archives that way).
... Bruce (who's neutral on the move, especially since I post only about
once per year these days).
Tristaan
I vote no and here's why.
1) From what I understand, this only affects some ISP's and not
all, not even a majority.
2) There are alternatives for connection to this group, many
which are free. I'm using one (using the bnb servers) and there
are others (Google groups, individual.net, etc).
3) The reason for the shift is a US only problem and we pride
ourselves at being an international group (Oz, NZ, UK, Germany,
Canada, etc). To shift because of one nation's stupidity at the
inconvenience of the rest is unfair.
4) The alt.books.m-lackey group is not getting deleted so it
will still be here and there will still be people posting to it.
Adding another group will just create schism and disconnect in a
community we all hold dear
While I recognize and sympathize with those who have the
inconvenience of hunting down a newsfeed (I went through that
when my ISP decided to block usenet account access from non-ISP
IP addresses), I think that this is jumping the gun a bit much.
Now, please, let's be civil here. We pride ourselves in being an
accepting community, open to differing opinions and different
viewpoints. Accusing each other of nation-centricity is no way
to go forward with this. If we do so, then we might as well let
ABML die because, at that point, it already has.
There are a number of people here with influence, strings that
can be pulled, etc. Rather than pointing fingers and saying
"Well why don't you just...", wouldn't it be better to say, "Hey,
I know someone who..." and try and help each other keep the
community going?
Obviously, this is all my opinion and my observations. I don't
pretend to speak for everyone, or event the majority. But I want
to remember ABML as a nice place to visit, to participate in. If
we delve into flaming, name-calling, and finger-pointing, than
ABML is dead and I'll just have to find some other place to be.
Tristaan
--
Beware Spam Trap!: "us" is an "ogre"
*******************************************************
Ogre-Monk, AIM TristaanOgre
"So good-bye for now and I'll see you again
Some way, some how
When it's my time to go to the other side
I'll hold you again and melt at your smile
Now I have all the ones that I am with
You taught me not to take for granted
The time that we have to show that we care
Speak into their lives and their hearts while they're here
And say I LOVE YOU!!"
~Disciple "Things Left Unsaid"
Theologian in training http://ballymennoniteblogger.blogspot.com/
*******************************************************
Joe Morris
> To be absoluitly honest, this only affects US ISPs.
>
> If you really want access, then take up an account with individual.net,
> which is what I did when my ISP's news servers were really flaky.
As a counter-argument, while most of us have been here in abml for some
time, it would be to our advantage to bring new converts into the fold, with
new ideas, and <gasp> maybe some postings that actually discuss our Esteemed
Author. (Miracles *do* happen)
The US is not (obviously, except to certain politicians) the Center of the
Universe and the ability of non-US NSPs to distribute newsgroups isn't
likely to be impacted by the prospects of Senator Jack S. Phogbound's
upcoming election campaign. Nevertheless, there are lots of people whose
access to newsgroups will be whatever their ISP is willing to provide, so
moving abml into the Big 8 will improve the chances of being seen.
Joe Morris (reading and posting from a brand-new NewsGuy account)
Aaron Kemtek
Advantage to using google: I can visit ABML from work when things are
slow (I'm at home now though).
Disadvantage: It is clunky!!
Advantage to moving to "big8": I can use Thunderbird.
Disadvantage: Reading their rules, it seems as if they don't like
groups that do not stay on topic; ABML has rampant topic drift, and
that is good in my opinion. If moving to "big8" means losing the
family atmosphere of ABML, then my vote is to stay in the alt.
universe (and *what* an alternate universe!!).
Disadvantage: I doubt they would let us name the group
rec.arts.books.by.lackey so our name could officially be RABBL. :)
--
Aaron, who also lost his sig when going through google. :(
@aloha.net Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
news:g3s0g...@news1.newsguy.com...
{thoughtful look} Part of me would like to start a new group over there
just to see what develops. Maybe nothing much would, but maybe something
would. Maybe we'd meet new people with new ideas. Maybe we wouldn't like how
it turned out, but maybe we would. It could be interesting. {Smile}
If we don't try, we'll never know. And if we do try, and we don't like
the way it develops, we'll still have ABML.
> Joe Morris (reading and posting from a brand-new NewsGuy account)
Do you like NewsGuy so far? {Smile}
Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
@aloha.net Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
"Aaron Kemtek" <kemt...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:c58060e2-900a-4d89...@m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 24, 7:38 pm, "Joe Morris" <j.c.mor...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> "Barry Ruck" <barry.r...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> > To be absoluitly honest, this only affects US ISPs.
>>
>> > If you really want access, then take up an account with individual.net,
>> > which is what I did when my ISP's news servers were really flaky.
>>
>> As a counter-argument, while most of us have been here in abml for some
>> time,
>> it would be to our advantage to bring new converts into the fold, with
>> new ideas, and <gasp> maybe some postings that actually discuss our
>> Esteemed Author. (Miracles *do* happen)
>>
>> The US is not (obviously, except to certain politicians) the Center of
>> the
>> Universe and the ability of non-US NSPs to distribute newsgroups isn't
>> likely to be impacted by the prospects of Senator Jack S. Phogbound's
>> upcoming election campaign. Nevertheless, there are lots of people whose
>> access to newsgroups will be whatever their ISP is willing to provide, so
>> moving abml into the Big 8 will improve the chances of being seen.
>>
>> Joe Morris (reading and posting from a brand-new NewsGuy account)
>
> Advantage to using google: I can visit ABML from work when things are
> slow (I'm at home now though).
> Disadvantage: It is clunky!!
I'll try to remember that. I've been thinking idly of trying Google if my
providers act up again. {Smile}
> Advantage to moving to "big8": I can use Thunderbird.
> Disadvantage: Reading their rules, it seems as if they don't like
> groups that do not stay on topic; ABML has rampant topic drift, and
> that is good in my opinion.
We like it so much, we wrote it into the description of RABML/RASWML when
we tried to start it the last time. At that time, folks in the Big8 didn't
seem to mind. I don't know if they didn't realize what we meant, or if
they've changed... or if they're more open to topic drift than they appear
to be. {pause}
I think this might be worth a try. If we don't like how it works out,
we'll still have ABML to come back to. {Smile} Besides, would it be that bad
to have another newsgroup to point to when folks traipse in and demand to
know where the talk about Mercedes Lackey's books are? {AMUSED SMILE}
> If moving to "big8" means losing the
> family atmosphere of ABML, then my vote is to stay in the alt.
> universe (and *what* an alternate universe!!).
Then we come back here, and point folks who want to discuss the books and
not the rest over there. {shrug, Smile} (There's precedent for this. I was
checking out the book-groups that are in Big8, and that sounds like the
relationship between alt.fan.robert-jordan and
rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan . Sounds like a win-win situation to me,
since the folks who want to stay on topic and the folks who don't aren't in
each others' hair.{Smile})
> Disadvantage: I doubt they would let us name the group
> rec.arts.books.by.lackey so our name could officially be RABBL. :)
That would be a neat acronym! {BIG SMILE, REALLY BIG GRIN}
Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
Joe Morris
> {thoughtful look} Part of me would like to start a new group over there
> just to see what develops. Maybe nothing much would, but maybe something
> would. Maybe we'd meet new people with new ideas. Maybe we wouldn't like
> how it turned out, but maybe we would. It could be interesting. {Smile}
>
> If we don't try, we'll never know. And if we do try, and we don't like
> the way it develops, we'll still have ABML.
>
>> Joe Morris (reading and posting from a brand-new NewsGuy account)
>
> Do you like NewsGuy so far? {Smile}
Well..."so far" in this case equates to "I've used it twice, including this
session." I splurged and signed up for 12 months of service (plus an extra
month free because I'm a Verizon customer) which costs $39.95, with a 10
GB/month limit (unlikely I'll ever use that much; I've never downloaded a
movie and don't plan to do so) - and if I ever do go over the limit a
"Bandwidth on Demand" option automagically sells me another 10 GB for $2.50.
Unused bandwidth [*] rolls over to the following month with no limit. No
problems so far.
[*] it's *data volume*, not *bandwidth*, but the industry seems to have
latched onto the wrong word to describe it.
One item that came up during registration I found interesting: a question of
whether or not I wanted the account to have access to "adult" newsgroups.
There wasn't any definition of what NewsGuy considers an "adult" newsgroup
(name? reputation? something else?) but presumably a family account could
be set up to exclude at least some of the garbage that one can find --
accidentally or otherwise -- on USENET.
Joe
Edna
see what was there, and lo and behold, I found something called
rec.arts.sf.written.m-lackey. Does anyone else see this in their list of
newsgroups?
Aaron Kemtek
> Unused bandwidth [*] rolls over to the following month with no limit. No
> problems so far.
>
> [*] it's *data volume*, not *bandwidth*, but the industry seems to have
> latched onto the wrong word to describe it.
It isn't how fast you go, but how many total miles you drive they
don't like!
Aaron
Aaron Kemtek
> see what was there, and lo and behold, I found something called
> rec.arts.sf.written.m-lackey. Does anyone else see this in their list of
> newsgroups?
Nope, the only author I see there is Robert Jordan.
See, Verizon *really* does suck, they don't even have a complete
"big8" hierarchy!
A search using Thunderbird stops finding results at "lacke", therefore
no Misty. :(
Aaron
Don Bruder
Edna <huels...@gmailDOT.com> wrote:
> Okay, this is weird. I was looking around the rec.arts.* hierarchy, to
> see what was there, and lo and behold, I found something called
> rec.arts.sf.written.m-lackey. Does anyone else see this in their list of
> newsgroups?
I can see it on my server (Comcast = Outsourced to GigaNews/SuperNews)
but pulling headers on it shows me a total of 6 messages, all dated
between 21-NOV-2004 and 10-OCT-2005. Two of them are obvious "alphabet
spams" of a "MAKE MONEY FAST!!!" variant. Two more are variants on the
"I found this great store online..." spam. One is a "Buy your travel
tickets from us" spam, and the last one is a message that looks at least
semi-legit, even though it's flogging a "Robert Heinlein Centennial Con"
that was apparently scheduled for July of last year in Kansas City,
apparenty posted by one of the ConCom folks.
In other words, it looks a WHOLE LOT like a dead/abandoned/improperly
newgroup-ed group.
--
Don Bruder - dak...@sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist,
or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow"
somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my
ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info
Joe Morris
> Okay, this is weird. I was looking around the rec.arts.* hierarchy, to
> see what was there, and lo and behold, I found something called
> rec.arts.sf.written.m-lackey. Does anyone else see this in their list of
> newsgroups?
Whose news server were you using? Verizon did not, and NewsGuy does not,
carry any rasfw.* group other than the one for Robert Jordan.
rasfwrj was created to move the huge volume of postings about his Wheel of
Time series out of rasfw -- and also to move out of the original group the
incessant complaints about the lousy artwork on the book covers. The move
also damped the flamewars that were fanned by the people in rasfw who
detested Jordan.
Joe (who was there when rasfwrj was created)
m_thomas[numBksInLastHrldMage]
> Okay, this is weird. I was looking around the rec.arts.* hierarchy, to
> see what was there, and lo and behold, I found something called
> rec.arts.sf.written.m-lackey. Does anyone else see this in their list of
> newsgroups?
>
> Edna
Well... dang. I'm going to try cross-posting this email message
to rec.arts.sf.written.m-lackey -- a check for "live"ness.
Hmmmm.
--
Megan
Journeyperson Dancing Barbarian
Keeper o' the FAQ: http://home.earthlink.net/~m_thomas3/abml/
Barry Ruck
> Edna wrote:
>> Okay, this is weird. I was looking around the rec.arts.* hierarchy, to see
>> what was there, and lo and behold, I found something called
>> rec.arts.sf.written.m-lackey. Does anyone else see this in their list of
>> newsgroups?
>>
>> Edna
>
> Well... dang. I'm going to try cross-posting this email message to
> rec.arts.sf.written.m-lackey -- a check for "live"ness.
>
> Hmmmm.
Well it propogates, but only one of my news servers carry the group,
and it's not individual.net !
Nothing here exept cigarrette SPAM
--
Reality is what you bump into in the dark. - Raymond E. Feist
Barry Ruck - Harlow, Essex. UK.
John Oliver
<"m_thomas[numBksInLastHrldMage]"@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Edna wrote:
>> Okay, this is weird. I was looking around the rec.arts.* hierarchy, to
>> see what was there, and lo and behold, I found something called
>> rec.arts.sf.written.m-lackey. Does anyone else see this in their list of
>> newsgroups?
>>
>> Edna
>
>Well... dang. I'm going to try cross-posting this email message
>to rec.arts.sf.written.m-lackey -- a check for "live"ness.
>
>Hmmmm.
Doesn't appear to be on the bnb server
--
John Oliver
jdol...@westnet.com.au
AIM or MSN jdoliver98
victoreia
[snip of various excellent points]
>> Disadvantage: I doubt they would let us name the group
>> rec.arts.books.by.lackey so our name could officially be RABBL. :)
>
> That would be a neat acronym! {BIG SMILE, REALLY BIG GRIN}
>
--
victoreia (currently posting from a new [free!] account on
news.motzarella.org)
Goddess of Dark Chocolate
victoreia
> In case people missed the developments in the "I need a recommendation
> for a usenet service..." thread: Thanks to the governor of NY putting
> pressure on ISP's to stop carrying the binary groups (and I suspect the
> ISP's being more than happy to comply, to free up the bandwidth) Verizon
> has announced that they will no longer carry the ALT hierarchy, or
> anything other than "the big 8" and it's possible that other ISP's will
> follow Verizon's stupid move.
>
> As a result, it's been suggested that we might want to move over to the
> Rec Hierarchy.
While I don't see much reason to block such a move, unless ABML were to
completely disappear off the face of the earth/vanish from the
airwaves/whatever metaphor suits you, I personally am not really
enthused about moving.
Quite apart from the fact that I hate moving of any kind (living address
twice within the last six years, office space three times within the
last two years), this "Big8" issue really _does_ only affect folks in
the US, and only parts of the US, at that. Since my ISP
(TimeWarner/Roadrunner) just dropped all usenet access two days ago with
*no* warning, I've already found a free alternative-just since
discovering the change about an hour ago. (Thank you to whomever-it-was
that posted that list, btw; I'm currently trying out news.motzarella.org.)
All that being said, if the move becomes official & a permanent
migration occurs, I'll go with the flow.......
--
victoreia
Goddess of Dark Chocolate
@aloha.net Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
> "Anne Elizabeth Baldwin" <anneb @ aloha . net> wrote:
>
>> {thoughtful look} Part of me would like to start a new group over there
>> just to see what develops. Maybe nothing much would, but maybe something
>> would. Maybe we'd meet new people with new ideas. Maybe we wouldn't like
>> how it turned out, but maybe we would. It could be interesting. {Smile}
>>
>> If we don't try, we'll never know. And if we do try, and we don't like
>> the way it develops, we'll still have ABML.
>>
>>> Joe Morris (reading and posting from a brand-new NewsGuy account)
>>
>> Do you like NewsGuy so far? {Smile}
>
> Well..."so far" in this case equates to "I've used it twice, including
> this
> session."
I understand you haven't had a chance to feel it out or anything yet.
Still, it's good to know NewsGuy makes a good first impression. {SMILE}
> I splurged and signed up for 12 months of service (plus an extra
> month free because I'm a Verizon customer) which costs $39.95, with a 10
> GB/month limit (unlikely I'll ever use that much; I've never downloaded a
> movie and don't plan to do so) - and if I ever do go over the limit a
> "Bandwidth on Demand" option automagically sells me another 10 GB for
> $2.50.
That is nice, as long as you aren't budgeting too heavily. {Smile}
> Unused bandwidth [*] rolls over to the following month with no limit. No
> problems so far.
>
> [*] it's *data volume*, not *bandwidth*, but the industry seems to have
> latched onto the wrong word to describe it.
That happens a lot. {half-smile} Folks latch onto the wrong word for
something, and _nothing_ can get them to change. {lop-sided smile}
> One item that came up during registration I found interesting: a question
> of whether or not I wanted the account to have access to "adult"
> newsgroups. There wasn't any definition of what NewsGuy considers an
> "adult" newsgroup (name? reputation? something else?) but presumably a
> family account could
> be set up to exclude at least some of the garbage that one can find --
> accidentally or otherwise -- on USENET.
That is interesting. {Smile} I just hope they have good judgment about
what they consider "adult." I've found automated definitions of that leave
much to be desired. {lop-sided smile}
Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
@aloha.net Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
"Edna" <huels...@gmailDOT.com> wrote in message
news:huelsenbeck-3ECA...@newsgroups.comcast.net...
> Okay, this is weird. I was looking around the rec.arts.* hierarchy, to
> see what was there, and lo and behold, I found something called
> rec.arts.sf.written.m-lackey. Does anyone else see this in their list of
> newsgroups?
I see it on HOL/aloha.net, and on HawaiianTel. However, it's not on
Google groups, nor on the list of official Big-8 groups. {pause}
I seem to remember that it got involved in some wag's bogus propagation
messages towards the end of our RFD. Cancel messages were sent out, but not
every news carrier is good about acknowledging those, I guess. {smile}
I think if we want truly widespread access to it, we'll still need to go
thru the process to make it official. {Smile}
Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
@aloha.net Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
I guess they're only carrying the 100% official groups. {half-smile}
Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
@aloha.net Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
<"m_thomas[numBksInLastHrldMage]"@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:V9CdnW2Mz_19hP7V...@earthlink.com...
> Edna wrote:
>> Okay, this is weird. I was looking around the rec.arts.* hierarchy, to
>> see what was there, and lo and behold, I found something called
>> rec.arts.sf.written.m-lackey. Does anyone else see this in their list of
>> newsgroups?
>>
>> Edna
>
> Well... dang. I'm going to try cross-posting this email message to
> rec.arts.sf.written.m-lackey -- a check for "live"ness.
>
> Hmmmm.
Doing the same to reply. I see you on both HawaiianTel and HOL. So
messages do make the rounds where it's carried. {smile}
I don't even see the group on Google, tho. Nor do I see it on the
official Big-8 list. {small smile}
Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
Aphrael
Hm, apparently, not on the Swiss servers either (I asked a friend with
another ISP to check...). There is rec.arts.sf.written, and
rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan, and that is all.
Aphrael...
--
http://www.loutan.net/blog/
http://www.ludivers.ch
m_thomas[numBksInLastHrldMage]
sigh. And having it already set up would have saved paperwork...
If we move, that is. I'm trying to keep a mental tally to see if
we "lose" anyone. So far... I don't thiiiink so.
William George Ferguson
>In article <huelsenbeck-3ECA...@newsgroups.comcast.net>,
> Edna <huels...@gmailDOT.com> wrote:
>
>> Okay, this is weird. I was looking around the rec.arts.* hierarchy, to
>> see what was there, and lo and behold, I found something called
>> rec.arts.sf.written.m-lackey. Does anyone else see this in their list of
>> newsgroups?
>
>I can see it on my server (Comcast = Outsourced to GigaNews/SuperNews)
>but pulling headers on it shows me a total of 6 messages, all dated
>between 21-NOV-2004 and 10-OCT-2005. Two of them are obvious "alphabet
>spams" of a "MAKE MONEY FAST!!!" variant. Two more are variants on the
>"I found this great store online..." spam. One is a "Buy your travel
>tickets from us" spam, and the last one is a message that looks at least
>semi-legit, even though it's flogging a "Robert Heinlein Centennial Con"
>that was apparently scheduled for July of last year in Kansas City,
>apparenty posted by one of the ConCom folks.
>
>In other words, it looks a WHOLE LOT like a dead/abandoned/improperly
>newgroup-ed group.
inproperly newgrouped. raswm-l very definitely did not go through the
voting process required to create a new Big 8 group. Without that, many
(most) news servers won't carry it. Some servers will carry any group a
client requests, but that doesn't mean that group will be propogated. In
fact, it pretty strongly contra-indicates the group being propogated.
--
"Oh Buffy, you really do need to have
every square inch of your ass kicked."
- Willow Rosenberg
Edna
"Joe Morris" <j.c.m...@verizon.net> wrote:
I am on Comcast, which I believe uses GigaNews.
Joe Morris
> Anne Elizabeth Baldwin wrote:
>>>Okay, this is weird. I was looking around the rec.arts.* hierarchy, to
>>>see what was there, and lo and behold, I found something called
>>>rec.arts.sf.written.m-lackey. Does anyone else see this in their list of
>>>newsgroups?
>> I see it on HOL/aloha.net, and on HawaiianTel. However, it's not on
>> Google groups, nor on the list of official Big-8 groups. {pause}
> sigh. And having it already set up would have saved paperwork...
Does anyone know if the r.a.sf.w.m-l group is a rogue? Some news server
managers don't do a particularly good job of flushing out big-8 groups that
were never approved by The Usenet Cabal but were the subject of forged
control messages; this would be consistent with the appearance of the group
on only a small number of NSP servers.
If it is a rogue, I'm guessing that we shouldn't try to pick up its name
since there are probably a variety of (real) RMGROUP control messages still
floating around in an attempt to kill off the rogue.
Joe Morris
Don Bruder
"Joe Morris" <j.c.m...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "m_thomas[numBksInLastHrldMage]" wrote:
> > Anne Elizabeth Baldwin wrote:
> >> "Edna" <huels...@gmailDOT.com> wrote:
>
> >>>Okay, this is weird. I was looking around the rec.arts.* hierarchy, to
> >>>see what was there, and lo and behold, I found something called
> >>>rec.arts.sf.written.m-lackey. Does anyone else see this in their list of
> >>>newsgroups?
>
> >> I see it on HOL/aloha.net, and on HawaiianTel. However, it's not on
> >> Google groups, nor on the list of official Big-8 groups. {pause}
>
> > sigh. And having it already set up would have saved paperwork...
>
> Does anyone know if the r.a.sf.w.m-l group is a rogue? Some news server
> managers don't do a particularly good job of flushing out big-8 groups that
> were never approved by The Usenet Cabal but were the subject of forged
> control messages; this would be consistent with the appearance of the group
> on only a small number of NSP servers.
Yep, exactly.
>
> If it is a rogue, I'm guessing that we shouldn't try to pick up its name
> since there are probably a variety of (real) RMGROUP control messages still
> floating around in an attempt to kill off the rogue.
>
> Joe Morris
I'll second that. Chances are high that it's on a list of groups that
get sent RMGROUP messages periodically in an effort to remove bogus
groups.
More than likely the only reason that it still exists on Giga/SuperNews
servers is they've long had a reputation for wanting to be able to boast
the largest number of "available groups".
It wouldn't surprise me if the "Jerry Garcia" banner groups (all several
hundred of them - get them all, sort your grouplist correctly, print it
out on an old teletype terminal, turn it sideways, and you get a giant
banner that reads "Jerry Garcia" in ASCII-art) are lurking in the
Gigia/Supernews servers...
(Gawd... the fact that I remember those groups dates me horribly,
doesn't it?)
@aloha.net Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
news:i8o764pp7b41rm22f...@4ax.com...
That fits with what I remember. I believe that RASWM-L was one of a bunch
of Big-8 newsgroups that had been in discussion when someone decided to put
out the make-group signal as some sort of joke. {lop-sided smile}
Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
@aloha.net Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
"m_thomas[numBksInLastHrldMage]"
<"m_thomas[numBksInLastHrldMage]"@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:EsidnWcWOKkMff7V...@earthlink.com...
> Anne Elizabeth Baldwin wrote:
>> "Edna" <huels...@gmailDOT.com> wrote in message
>> news:huelsenbeck-3ECA...@newsgroups.comcast.net...
>>
>>>Okay, this is weird. I was looking around the rec.arts.* hierarchy, to
>>>see what was there, and lo and behold, I found something called
>>>rec.arts.sf.written.m-lackey. Does anyone else see this in their list of
>>>newsgroups?
>>
>> I see it on HOL/aloha.net, and on HawaiianTel. However, it's not on
>> Google groups, nor on the list of official Big-8 groups. {pause}
>>
>> I seem to remember that it got involved in some wag's bogus
>> propagation
>> messages
>> towards the end of our RFD. Cancel messages were sent out, but not every
>> news carrier is good about acknowledging those, I guess. {smile}
>>
>> I think if we want truly widespread access to it, we'll still need to
>> go thru the process to make it official. {Smile}
>
> sigh. And having it already set up would have saved paperwork...
Yes, it certainly would have. {small smile}
> If we move, that is. I'm trying to keep a mental tally to see if we
> "lose" anyone. So far... I don't thiiiink so.
{cross fingers hopefully, Smile}
Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
@aloha.net Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
> "m_thomas[numBksInLastHrldMage]" wrote:
>> Anne Elizabeth Baldwin wrote:
>>> "Edna" <huels...@gmailDOT.com> wrote:
>
>>>>Okay, this is weird. I was looking around the rec.arts.* hierarchy, to
>>>>see what was there, and lo and behold, I found something called
>>>>rec.arts.sf.written.m-lackey. Does anyone else see this in their list of
>>>>newsgroups?
>
>>> I see it on HOL/aloha.net, and on HawaiianTel. However, it's not on
>>> Google groups, nor on the list of official Big-8 groups. {pause}
>>
>> sigh. And having it already set up would have saved paperwork...
>
> Does anyone know if the r.a.sf.w.m-l group is a rogue?
I believe it is. My memory easily confuses dates, but it doesn't usually
create practical jokers out of whole cloth. {half-smile}
> Some news server managers don't do a particularly good job of flushing
> out big-8 groups that
> were never approved by The Usenet Cabal but were the subject of forged
> control messages; this would be consistent with the appearance of the
> group
> on only a small number of NSP servers.
That fits what I think I remember about this. {small smile}
> If it is a rogue, I'm guessing that we shouldn't try to pick up its name
> since there are probably a variety of (real) RMGROUP control messages
> still
> floating around in an attempt to kill off the rogue.
So... what alternate name would you suggest? {considering look}
Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
> Joe Morris
jam...@hotmail.com
On Jun 24, 7:38 pm, "Joe Morris" <j.c.mor...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "Barry Ruck" <barry.r...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> > To be absoluitly honest, this only affects US ISPs.
>
For NOW this is true. Will it be so next year? Sorry, my foresight is on
the fritz!
Disadvantage: I doubt they would let us name the group
rec.arts.books.by.lackey so our name could officially be RABBL. :)
Now THAT is a name that fits!
--
Aaron, who also lost his sig when going through google. :(
jam...@hotmail.com
"Edna" <huels...@gmailDOT.com> wrote in message
news:huelsenbeck-3ECA...@newsgroups.comcast.net...
> see what was there, and lo and behold, I found something called
> rec.arts.sf.written.m-lackey. Does anyone else see this in their list of
> newsgroups?
Yep, and today is the FIRST time I've seen any posts there!
jam...@hotmail.com
"Edna" <huels...@gmailDOT.com> wrote in message
> In article <g3unm...@news3.newsguy.com>,
> "Joe Morris" <j.c.m...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> "Edna" <huels...@gmailDOT.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Okay, this is weird. I was looking around the rec.arts.* hierarchy, to
>> > see what was there, and lo and behold, I found something called
>> > rec.arts.sf.written.m-lackey. Does anyone else see this in their list
>> > of
>> > newsgroups?
>>
>> Whose news server were you using? Verizon did not, and NewsGuy does not,
>> carry any rasfw.* group other than the one for Robert Jordan.
>>
>> rasfwrj was created to move the huge volume of postings about his Wheel
>> of
>> Time series out of rasfw -- and also to move out of the original group
>> the
>> incessant complaints about the lousy artwork on the book covers. The
>> move
>> also damped the flamewars that were fanned by the people in rasfw who
>> detested Jordan.
>>
>> Joe (who was there when rasfwrj was created)
>
> I am on Comcast, which I believe uses GigaNews.
Same here Edna, although those aren't (quite) the two names that _I_ usually
use to refer to those two companies!
jam...@hotmail.com
old posts, and I've held a subscription open on this group for quite a
while, just in case somebody posted something interesting!
"Barry Ruck" <barry...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:0qF8k.91325$P83....@newsfe20.ams2...
jam...@hotmail.com
"Anne Elizabeth Baldwin" <anneb @ aloha . net> wrote in message
news:mJudnXhbpoRezP7V...@hawaiiantel.net...
At least Comcast / Giganews carries this AND ABML for now at least!
jam...@hotmail.com
seem to be a problem, here in Michigan anyway. If the move has to come (for
the US contingent anyway), then hopefully it will be fairly transparent.
But then there ARE various off shore news servers available.
http://www.newzbot.com/ is just ONE searchable listing of servers.
jam...@hotmail.com
"m_thomas[numBksInLastHrldMage]"
<"m_thomas[numBksInLastHrldMage]"@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:EsidnWcWOKkMff7V...@earthlink.com...
>> "Edna" <huels...@gmailDOT.com> wrote in message
>> news:huelsenbeck-3ECA...@newsgroups.comcast.net...
>>
the newzbot search window:
http://www.newzbot.com/search.php?q=alt.books.m-lackey
A farily decent listing, although most of the servers listed DO have their
faults.
@aloha.net Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
"Lur...@The.Threshold" <jam...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:AeednUPwpefoMvvV...@comcast.com...
>
> "Aaron Kemtek" <kemt...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:c58060e2-900a-4d89...@m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 24, 7:38 pm, "Joe Morris" <j.c.mor...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> "Barry Ruck" <barry.r...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> > To be absoluitly honest, this only affects US ISPs.
>>
>
> For NOW this is true. Will it be so next year? Sorry, my foresight is
> on the fritz!
Actually, both Mummy Az and Dave that it isn't true only in the US.
Australia is currently having trouble, too, and Australia's problem is
affecting New Zealand as well. {half-smile}
> Disadvantage: I doubt they would let us name the group
> rec.arts.books.by.lackey so our name could officially be RABBL. :)
>
> Now THAT is a name that fits!
I agree. {BIG SMILE, REALLY BIG GRIN}
Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
@aloha.net Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
>I see yours and Anne's posts but no spam for coffin nails! Those MIGHT be
>old posts, and I've held a subscription open on this group for quite a
>while, just in case somebody posted something interesting!
You're right. The assorted spam is about 3-4 years old, give or take a
few months. So I'm not surprised if you don't see it. {Smile}
Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
@aloha.net Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
Thanks. I'll have to check those out. {Smile}
Currently I don't have a problem. However, I'd rather get a few
alternatives lined up now, when I have no reason to be upset. If I can
avoid a frantic hunt for a new news server because ABML has disappeared
from mine, I'd really prefer to. {BIG SMILE}
Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
Joe Morris
> "Lur...@The.Threshold" <jam...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Disadvantage: I doubt they would let us name the group
>> rec.arts.books.by.lackey so our name could officially be RABBL. :)
>>
>> Now THAT is a name that fits!
Serious suggestion: why not try to register that name? If we note that the
"obvious" name was poached by someone and is still on some NSP systems a
rogue group, we ought to use a different name, and I doubt that the
application process expects us to include a pronouncer for the initials.
Joe Morris
@aloha.net Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
{pause}
That really would be neat. {Smile} We might as well try. The worst they
can do is say "no." {SMILE}
You're right. We are stuck in that the name they wanted us to have is
now taken by a rogue. Since we can't use that, we might as well see if we
can use that to get a name we'd like better. {BIG SMILE}
"Poached" is a very good word for that. I believe that was never a
legitimate group. {Smile}
Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
Robotech_Master
> Well... dang. I'm going to try cross-posting this email message
> to rec.arts.sf.written.m-lackey -- a check for "live"ness.
Seems live to me!
Might be a good idea to move over here, or at least start crossposting
everything, given that some ISPs are beginning to drop the "alt" hierarchy.
--
Chris Meadows aka | WWW: http://www.terrania.us | Somebody
Robotech_Master | ICQ: 5477383 AIM: RoboMastr | help, I'm
robotec...@gmail.com | Skype, LJ-Gizmo: Robotech_Master | trapped in
robo...@eyrie.org | Yahoo: robotech_master_2000 | a sig file!
Tristaan
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 20:40:46 GMT, Robotech_Master stomped through
my brain with:
>On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:24:00 -0700, m_thomas[numBksInLastHrldMage] <"m_thomas[numBksInLastHrldMage]"@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Well... dang. I'm going to try cross-posting this email message
>> to rec.arts.sf.written.m-lackey -- a check for "live"ness.
>
>Seems live to me!
>
>Might be a good idea to move over here, or at least start crossposting
>everything, given that some ISPs are beginning to drop the "alt" hierarchy.
There is a problem. The bnb-lp server that I use for new reading
does not carry the rec.arts.sf.written.m-lackey group.
So... that means it is probably not 100% totally distributed to
all news servers so we'd still have the same problem. <shrug>
Ah, well.
--
Beware Spam Trap!: "us" is an "ogre"
*******************************************************
Ogre-Monk, AIM TristaanOgre
"So good-bye for now and I'll see you again
Some way, some how
When it's my time to go to the other side
I'll hold you again and melt at your smile
Now I have all the ones that I am with
You taught me not to take for granted
The time that we have to show that we care
Speak into their lives and their hearts while they're here
And say I LOVE YOU!!"
~Disciple "Things Left Unsaid"
Theologian in training http://ballymennoniteblogger.blogspot.com/
*******************************************************
@aloha.net Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
news:slrng7vbla....@terrania.homelinux.org...
> On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:24:00 -0700, m_thomas[numBksInLastHrldMage]
> <"m_thomas[numBksInLastHrldMage]"@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Well... dang. I'm going to try cross-posting this email message
>> to rec.arts.sf.written.m-lackey -- a check for "live"ness.
>
> Seems live to me!
Sort of. The servers that get it seem to be good at picking up posts.
However, not all servers carry it. Somebody suggested it's a "rogue," a
group that's been cancelled, but is still carried by some servers that are
better at picking up new groups, than at dropping non-legit ones. {small
smile}
> Might be a good idea to move over here, or at least start crossposting
> everything, given that some ISPs are beginning to drop the "alt"
> hierarchy.
I'd like to see that, but someone said there could be a problems with
trying to use a name that has been cancelled. {pause}
Who wants to see what they'd let us name a new group instead? I'm still
intrigued by the proposal to try for rec.arts.books.by.lackey because the
"obvious" name isn't really available. {SMILE}
Anne Elizabeth Baldwin