Well heres a question...Gor here and now
kajira
only hope the results are somewhat less "energetic" than previously.
For those of us who try and live the Gorean lifestyle here as best we
can, what are some of the hardest parts of integrating it into your
24/7 life as it was? What modifications are made and how can it be
done so as to enhance what we believe to be true.
For example, a slavegirl who is instructed to go and purchase
something (albeit not from the local supermarket) may be sent with a
change purse around her neck - the purse portion resting between her
breasts. She may ask the shopkeeper to please take the money and
return the receipt and change to the purse- all without her touching
it at all.
Apparently this stems from the Gorean belief that a slavegirl does
not touch money. Though a girl has known of this for some time and
those who may live this way when the occasion permits, she has no
particular reference in the Books.
The question is...how do others here integrate Gorean ways iinto the
practice both of their Mastery and their slavery?
shai^tana
slave@Masters feet
Dremaer
In article <36f65e6a...@news.csolve.net>, sl...@masters.feet (kajira)
wrote:
> A girl is prompted to try and launch a discussion theme again. One can
> only hope the results are somewhat less "energetic" than previously.
>
> For those of us who try and live the Gorean lifestyle here as best we
> can, what are some of the hardest parts of integrating it into your
> 24/7 life as it was? What modifications are made and how can it be
> done so as to enhance what we believe to be true.
One theme that Cabot comes back to again and again is that even on Gor there
IS no "one true way." Some masters let their girls use their names, some
don't. Also, the rules can vary tremendously from master to master and girl
to girl. A man might have one "tower" slave who is allowed to wear shoes,
gets opaque clothing, even learns to read and write. He might have a kettle
girl who is lucky to get a rag to wear. And if the tower slave irritates
him, or if he just feels it would be good for her, or even just on a *whim,*
they might trade places as easy as *that.* I agree with this wholeheartedly.
I might say something to another master if I felt his slave was
disrespectful to me in general (say, she had a snotty tone of voice or
turned her back on me while I was speaking to her) but I'd never, uninvited,
tell him I thought she was doing something "wrong" (kneeling with her legs
closed, etc.)
> For example, a slavegirl who is instructed to go and purchase
> something (albeit not from the local supermarket) may be sent with a
> change purse around her neck - the purse portion resting between her
> breasts. She may ask the shopkeeper to please take the money and
> return the receipt and change to the purse- all without her touching
> it at all.
>
> Apparently this stems from the Gorean belief that a slavegirl does
> not touch money. Though a girl has known of this for some time and
> those who may live this way when the occasion permits, she has no
> particular reference in the Books.
Cabot talks about it all the time. I *think,* though I'm not sure, he
actually does it once, in "Hunters," when he sends a girl with coins in her
mouth and a note which says "Two loaves of sa-tarna" into the city from the
ship he's on to buy bread.
I let my kajira handle money because it would not be practical not to do so
given the things she is required to do. However, she *is* forbidden to touch
weapons, for instance, including whips, paddles and so forth, with her
hands, which is another common rule on Gor. If I tell her to bring me
something to punish her with, she must bring it in her teeth.
> The question is...how do others here integrate Gorean ways iinto the
> practice both of their Mastery and their slavery?
Here's what we do:
1) My live-in kajira wears a locked steel collar
(http://www.geocities.com/area51/lair/9251/geocollar.html) at all times
except one night a week when she works and there is a supervisor at her job
who would not approve, or when her family is visiting. At times when she is
not wearing it, she has a chain bracelet which she is required to wear. My
other kajira has a collar, which she can put on and take off after following
a little ritual. She has a token (a silver anklet) which she wears at all
times and is not allowed to take off.
2) We have a lot of other rules, too, which can be read at
http://www.geocities.com/area51/lair/9251/rules.html. I won't post them all,
it's sort of long and lots of people might not be interested. Rules, of
course, are always subject to change without notice, including suspension
for indefinite times. The one thing I *don't* do is punish a slave for
breaking a rule she didn't know. Subjecting an animal to an unpredictable
environment will eventually produce psychosis. I don't want psychotic slave
girls.
I wish you well.
Dremaer
--
Cutter John's Theory of Temporo-Natal Irrelevance:
"It's never too late to have a happy childhood!"
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/9251/geohome.html
If you live near Chicago, you should check out "Galleria Domain," a
BDSM/Fetish club open nightly. It's way cool. See it at:
http://www.galleriadomain.com
This is a totally unsolicited testimonial, but the operators are friends of
mine, if that makes a difference.
slavekef
> For example, a slavegirl who is instructed to go and purchase
> something (albeit not from the local supermarket) may be sent with a
> change purse around her neck - the purse portion resting between her
> breasts. She may ask the shopkeeper to please take the money and
> return the receipt and change to the purse- all without her touching
> it at all.
>
Greetings slavegirl :>
Welllllllllllll.... this city where i live being as it is.. most likely the
grocer would try to cop a feel and take the money anyway LOL :>
Some things clearly would be difficult if not ridiculous. It's necessary to
handle money - if you want to get on the bus or use coin-operated laundry
machines. What i'm more worried about, is how the Gorean attention to
*discipline*, formality and structure is MAINTAINED in everyday (middle
class) life, not necessarily carrying over customs.. however, Happy New Year.
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Dremaer
i...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> link typo; try
> <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/9251/slaverules.html>
Whoops! *lol* Thanks for the correction.
> Nice site. Liked the wish story.
Thank you. I wish you well.
Dremaer
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Alaric Tr
>not touch money.
For a slave girl to not touch weapons,
remove her collar etc. Makes a great
deal of sense, both from a practical and
psychological stand point.....but I can't
say I follow Mr. Norman on the money
"thing".
The fact that she owns nothing should be
well driven into her by her training, and
the culture at large. To restrict her from
touching money, simply limits her usefullness.
And..ask yourself..would you want to sell
items to a kajira in exchange for saliva
coated lucre?
Needless to say, I'm happy to see shai^tana's master makes use of the
purse..
Be well,
Alaric
Alaric Tr(Spammersaresleen)@Aol.Com
....remove the insult to respond.....
kajira
i`Chya) wrote:
>>A girl is prompted to try and launch a discussion theme again. One can
>>only hope the results are somewhat less "energetic" than previously.
>
> Is that sarcasm?
No Master it is not .
>
>>For example, a slavegirl who is instructed to go and purchase
><snip>
>
> Why do you think Men invented credit cards, hon? <chuckles>
To be frank Master there are many things Men do that a girl has no
ability to understand. she has long since stopped in many cases trying
to understand. (chuckles back)
>
>>The question is...how do others here integrate Gorean ways iinto the
>>practice both of their Mastery and their slavery?
>
> I don't integrate. I either do or do not. Gorean traditions are simply
>elaborate acts. It's what's in your heart that matters.
Master, cannot this be said of most traditions, ideals, values and
beliefs?
The question was meant to ask how those of us living here and now
(obviously) and espousing to the Gorean ways, values, attitudes
(whatever word may be chosen)...how we can put into our day to day
lives, those values or elements of Gor that we particularly find
beneficial.
ie: does Your slave kneel nadu when You enter the home each evening?
> In terms of simple
>biology, women are *designed* to submit to the invasion of men. Unlike
>women, men can receive pleasure regardless
Master...this concept is a bit of a difficult one to get around...both
genders can and do receive pleasure in the absence of the other.
For just as physiologically the female is meant to be impaled by the
Male, so is He designed to be accommodated inside the woman.
Giving of pleasure or pain is
>ultimately the choice of the man. There is no tradition. It's just the way
>it is, and *that* is Gorean. ;)
ThankYou for Your response Master
shai^tana kajira
slave@Masters feet
>
> Nhi`Vanye i`Chya <tblade&evansinet.com>
> Header addresses encoded with ROT13 to foil Irth spammers.
Angel Sparrow
about to get explicit
Nhi`Vanye i`Chya wrote:
> Quoting msg <36f65e6a...@news.csolve.net>
> kajira said:
>
> >A girl is prompted to try and launch a discussion theme again. One can
> >only hope the results are somewhat less "energetic" than previously.
>
> Is that sarcasm?
No, I take it as a delicate way of saying she wishes to
avoid a flamewar. As she is apparently a delicate
little flower, entirely appropriate...
>
>
> >For example, a slavegirl who is instructed to go and purchase
> <snip>
>
> Why do you think Men invented credit cards, hon? <chuckles>
I always found the idea of being unable to handle money
obnoxious, especially when the slaves do the shopping.
I would personally never hand over my whole wallet
or any money I was responsible for to a clerk.
Perhaps Gorean shopkeepers are more
honest than American.
> >The question is...how do others here integrate Gorean ways iinto the
> >practice both of their Mastery and their slavery?
I am not owned, but I have been.
My former master used a modification of the
pleasure slave position (hands behind the back instead of on the thighs),
but never demanded I speak in third person.
My husband has almost no interest in Gor, but
does play a mean Kaissa game.
of course he's good at jetan as well...
> elaborate acts. It's what's in your heart that matters. In terms of simple
> biology, women are *designed* to submit to the invasion of men.
And men are designed to be encompassed
by women.
I won't argue biology. (I dearly love penetration,
as evinced by a 10 year marriage and 3 kids)
> Unlike
> women, men can receive pleasure regardless. Giving of pleasure or pain is
> ultimately the choice of the man. There is no tradition. It's just the way
> it is, and *that* is Gorean. ;)
Hmmm, tell that to my girlfriend, who says I wield a mean riding crop.
I must even disagree that in a het relationship
pain is the perogative of the man.
I have (inadvertantly) put more than
one lover into pain with a misplaced knee,
a too-hard suction, a too sharp teak of
his nipples. (with a couple of them,
I did it again on purpose. They loved it)
As for setting the sexual pace, that occurs only if
the man is on top. Before you protest that
that is the only appropriate way, consider the
ease of access that putting a woman on top affords.
(My former master used to cuff my ankles to my
wrists and set me atop him with a time limit)
Just my two cents.
I'm not a feminist. I am a man's
woman. I just prefer being free.
Angel
-=- kajira hill -=-
Yes, hello, it's me. i was tipped off that i was being asked for
here, so i thought i'd poke my head in. We did not have discussions
like this when this newsgroup formed!
On to the subject:
=======================================
For those of you who don't know me, i need to do a bit of intro. i
have read, i'd estimate, approximately 2 1/2 books of the Gor series.
i own almost all of them, but find them, frankly, hard to read. (i do
know how to read, i just like words that are put together in a more
readable fashion.)
i was introduced to Gor, simply because my first Master is/was Gorean,
the president at one time of a national Gorean Society. i went to Him
untrained (technically), but from a very strict Victorian upbringing,
causing my Master on more than one occasion to stop and quietly thank
my parents for sending me pre-trained. lol.
i lived in His home for two years as first girl to many and varied
girls. We had rules, and i'm sure i will forget some, but here's what
i recall at this time:
i was not allowed on the furniture. Furniture is not for pets, it's
for freepersons.
before entering any room that had a freeperson within, i stopped and
*did not ask* permission to enter. i just stopped. When
acknowledged, whether by words or a nod, i was allowed entry.
Yes, i *did* greet my Master naked, in nadu, every night when He
returned home. This sometimes led to some mighty rug burns, when i
didn't hear Him enter, and ran and SLID to my knees as quickly as
possible. He was highly amused on these occasions, and sometimes
would purposefully remain very quiet, just to see my frantic attempts.
:)
We discarded nadu as He entered the room as just too much -- not
practical for life on earth.
As my collar was then of black leather, it was removed by Him before i
showered and replaced by Him after. i had a dress collar for formal
dinners, guests, etc.
i was naked at all times when in the house, or as quickly as possible
after doing whatever it was i was doing outside the house.
There was no mention of my not handling money, as it was i who did the
shopping, etc., as was mentioned here before.
After He showered, i would lick his body dry. i *loved* this ritual!
For three months we had another girl who slept chained in the dungeon.
my Master preferred His bed warm, and therefore i slept with Him.
Sometimes chained to the bed, sometimes not, dependent upon His whim.
i did, however, have to ask permission to enter the bed if He was
already in it.
i asked permission to exit His presence for any reason, and had to
have a good reason to do so, or would not be allowed leave.
Otherwise, i was at His feet when He sat in His chair... roaming on my
knees if there was a group of folks. NOTE: being on one's knees all
the time is impossible. my Master, after a time, allowed me to shift
to one side, resting my weight on my hips, legs to the side. He was
kind. :)
Exception here would be when we had large gatherings of The Tribe, and
He was entertaining. i then had free reign in the household to be
sure the guests were all taken care of and happy.
Drinks were always, of course, served correctly -- and fetched without
word to do so, after i learned my Master's needs.
i did not eat food unless i received permission from my Master. For
instance, when dinner was served, He had His plate on the table, i,
mine on the floor. He could eat for as long as He pleased without
allowing me a bite. When i got a nod, i could then begin.
Contrary to what i've seen here, i was allowed to handle the
implements, as it was my duty to pack them and assure their safe
passage from one place to another, when we traveled. However, when at
home, i, too, used my teeth or lips only to touch an implement.
Most of the time i did not speak in third person, but i was made aware
VERY early on that if i *truly* wanted something, third person was the
best thing for me. i was never told to say "this girl" this or "this
girl" that. For instance, "slave begs permission to speak, Master."
His preference was the initial "slave begs" for whatever. i did say
"she" and "her" when speaking -- again, never "this girl," etc.
There were other slaves who lived in other houses in the area that
were also owned by my Master. i was first girl, therefore it was my
duty to keep them in line. Some girls say they are slaves but are
not, and think rules and discipline and respect for the Master a
bother, i suppose. For instance, i did enter a room one day and slave
jasmine was on the couch. i told her to get off the couch
immediately. We had an animated discussion (no, we did not yell)
about why she would need to be on the floor when Master was not there.
She eventually got to the floor, begging me not to tell. i believe i
gave her until midnight. When the time came, i reminded her, her
promise. It took some goading, but finally she confessed and got her
punishment.
Being first girl to many can alienate a slave from the others. There
was that drawback, sadly.
Who slept in our bed with us was, of course, up to Him, and often
times i would awake to find a girl in the bed that hadn't been there
when i'd gone to sleep. Always an adventure!
i'm sure i must be forgetting something, but there is what is
remaining in my mind at this time.
Again, let me say i enjoyed reading this discussion very much. It's
been a long time since i've had reason to hearken back to my Gorean
beginnings. Thanks for the memories. :)
=============================================================
p.s. The web site has been down since June. i have taken note,
however, that Dremear (hello :)) has a FAQ. i have not been to His
site to look it over, but i *am* interested to know if there are those
who are interested in my Gorean pages going back up in some form or
another? It was the first Gorean info on the web, and so many more
have cropped up since i began that project -- some real life and well
-- some not, that i just have no idea whether anyone would give a
hoot. Feedback most welcome. Thank you!
Oh, gosh.
p.s.2. i wrote for the SandMUtopia Guardian about my life as a Gorean
slavegirl a few years back. i know i included rules in that article,
so there may be some there that i've forgotten here, and vice-versa.
safe travels :)
kajira
--
****************************************************************************************
-- @ -- kajira hill -- @ -- odalisque -- @ -- bonkers -- @ -- blissful -- @ --
****************************************************************************************
A true gentleman does not get excited, even after losing his entire fortune.
-- Dosteyevsky, "The Gambler"
kajira
<odal...@iols.net> wrote:
>
>i lived in His home for two years as first girl to many and varied
>girls. We had rules, and i'm sure i will forget some, but here's what
>i recall at this time:
*smile*...Thankyou kajira...it seems the discussion this one attempted
to launch was misunderstood by some. It was designed to prompt
discussion and to explore how those of us living the lifestyle,
integrate its aspects into life in a world that does not understand
our cravings to be as we are. It was not meant to advocate that slaves
not handle money...that was merely an example.
this one is pleased you have returned.
shai^tana
slave@Masters feet
Dremaer
i...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> Well here's a question by one who is intrigued by the Gorean worldview. Do
> slaves rear children in this world?
On Gor, absolutely. And sometimes the same ones who warm the master's furs at
night. "Many children would be surprised, doubtless, to see their friend and
governess lana or bina (or whatever) at the master's feet after they have
retired." Or some such. In any case, the point is, yes, kajirae are sometimes
responsible for the childrearing, even ones who are also used often for the
master's pleasure.
> How is that handled in real life?
It depends on the individual parents. The only answer I can give is, "as seems
best to them."
-=- kajira hill -=-
the following, and i quote:
:>Well here's a question by one who is intrigued by the Gorean worldview. Do
:>slaves rear children in this world? How is that handled in real life?
:>
:>iji
Ah! While my master did have a daughter (well, hopefully he still
does), he did not have custody, and in fact had moved from Chicago to
South Florida to be close to his prized child. We did, however, have
her over on some weekends. On these weekends, all things "scene" were
locked in the dungeon. i was clothed, of course. And the fact that i
was always on the floor brought the child and i closer together than
would have been possible if i was like all those other adults up there
on the furniture. <g>
--
****************************************************************************************
-- @ -- kajira hill -- @ -- odalisque -- @ -- bonkers -- @ -- blissful -- @ --
****************************************************************************************
You look simply sexual my dear.
khannea...@gmail.com
mark.a....@gmail.com
It is interesting to see that Gorean 24/7 lifestyle topics still pop up every now and then.
A lifestyle is an individual thing. In the case of a Gorean M/s relationship in the here and now, concessions do need to be understood from all parties involved.
I won't say what makes a good Master or what makes a good slave, that is for them to decide. How you decide to conduct yourselves inside the Master's home is something that develops and evolves over time. Roles get cemented, rituals adapt to feasibility and practicality.
We are all getting older, as well, and age brings on it's own challenges. So we adapt and evolve even more.
What's at the heart of the matter isn't what "some other Master/slave" does, but how you act and react in the relationship you have.
If both are comfortable and relish what they have, the "details" are just minutae distractions from what is taking place in the heart. Sometimes that takes bravery by throwing away what society thinks is correct, and going ahead to behave how you wish to conduct yourself.
Regards,
Wodun
mikemey...@gmail.com
I won't get into the issues I have with gorean m/s (lack of capitalization on purpose) but suffice it to say, any system that is that top heavy isn't a functional system, it is a system designed for abuse and when the author of the books says you're nuts if you try to live by those codices, then you have something very, very wrong with you.
And yes, I'm ballsy enough to say what makes a good Master and a good slave, it's one word, one word only: COMMUNICATION. If they don't communicate, then you're going to have a very dysfunctional and abusive relationship.
No, it isn't about throwing away societal conventions, it is about saying society has these conventions, and we understand that the exist, but you are choosing not to follow them. That statement about throwing away is dangerous because it is why there is this fallacy in the lifestyle that "vanilla" is a bad thing. It isn't bad, it is someone's preference and a lot of people in the lifestyle seem to forget that fact.