Interactive Reviews: Horror's New Horror
Zarok
just chanced across one of the very worst: the 'interactive review',
where reviewer and author prance around each other for an unendurable
two weeks:
http://www.knibbworld.com/campbelldiscuss/messages/1/1606.html?1236331361
This is worse than watching a car crash in slow motion. Rarely have
such minor achievements been celebrated in such exhausting detail.
It's like watching a ten hour documentary on the maing of 'Keeping Up
Appearances'.
Irony reaches a new level when Mr Fry - hardly the literary equivalent
of Ballard or Greene himself - pokes fun at Shaun Hutson, imagining
him to have desecrated Oscar Wilde's grave. Well, bearing in mind that
Fry sets out to ape Thomas Ligotti, Reggie Oliver and Robert Aickman -
but fails miserably - then a charge of desecration could just as
easily be levelled at him.
But enough of these politics! If you enjoy a cheesy toe-curling read,
you could do a lot worse than glance through the unfolding nightmare
that is 'The Interactive Review Of A Reasonably Good But Far From
Special Book' by Gary Fry.
NB. Why oh why oh why does no one else speak out about such matters?
Everybody's too busy kissing everybody else's derriere. It's a
shocking state of affairs, especially amongst writers and readers who
by virtue of their wide reading should know better. To call it
parochial, provincial and incestuous would be an understatement.
[Strides off into the night muttering about spineless sycophants and
diseased dictators.]
williemeikle
> Undoubtedly the internet has facilitated many innovations but I have
> just chanced across one of the very worst: the 'interactive review',
> where reviewer and author prance around each other for an unendurable
> two weeks:
>
Thanks for the link. Des Lewis usually has good judgement when it
comes to writers, so I'll probably buy the book concerned.
Shrike
Do as you want, Willy. You're hardly going to spite me if you buy GF's
book as I have no interest in it either way.
The creation of the two-week interactive-review in a back-scratching
environment is _not_ a healthy development, regardless of Des's
various talents.
williemeikle
I wasn't even considering doing it to -spite- you. Not everything is
about you old chap. I trust Des Lewis judgement, and what him and Gary
Fry get up to on RCs message board means absolutely nothing to me. I
just wonder why it gets you so hot and bothered?
cone zero
I genuinely think 'The Impelled' by Gary Fry is a great book, for the
reasons given.
This is one of a number of books I've reviewed in this manner since
late last year:
http://weirdmonger.blog-city.com/recent_reviews_of_books_by_dfl.htm
riley...@ntlworld.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
You don't need to defend your reviews, Des, certainly not to the kind
of barmy accusations levelled out by cranks like CB. They're only good
for a bit of a laugh.
David
Shrike
> On Mar 7, 2:34 pm, cone zero <bfitzwo...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mar 7, 1:58 pm, Shrike <hauntedri...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Mar 6, 9:44 pm, williemeikle <meiklewill...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Mar 6, 7:28 am, Zarok <hauntedri...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > Undoubtedly the internet has facilitated many innovations but I have
> > > > > just chanced across one of the very worst: the 'interactive review',
> > > > > where reviewer and author prance around each other for an unendurable
> > > > > two weeks:
>
> > > > >http://www.knibbworld.com/campbelldiscuss/messages/1/1606.html?123633...
>
> > > > Thanks for the link. Des Lewis usually has good judgement when it
> > > > comes to writers, so I'll probably buy the book concerned.
>
> > > > Williehttp://www.williammeikle.com
>
> > > Do as you want, Willy. You're hardly going to spite me if you buy GF's
> > > book as I have no interest in it either way.
>
> > > The creation of the two-week interactive-review in a back-scratching
> > > environment is _not_ a healthy development, regardless of Des's
> > > various talents.
>
> > I genuinely think 'The Impelled' by Gary Fry is a great book, for the
> > reasons given.
>
> > This is one of a number of books I've reviewed in this manner since
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> You don't need to defend your reviews, Des, certainly not to the kind
> of barmy accusations levelled out by cranks like CB. They're only good
> for a bit of a laugh.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
It speaks volumes that you deem it 'cranky' and 'barmy' to be
sceptical of a two-week interactive-review.
I make a valid point, even if I say so myself. And let's face it, you
aren't going to make it, are you? I could find that funny but I just
find it sad.
As for Gary Fry and Gary MacMahon claiming that their pals only say
nice things about their work because they are shrewd, clever, astute
judges of weird fiction......please, somebody pass the sick bucket.
The two Garies are constantly politicking and promoting themselves on
every available message board with all the energy and enthusiasm of
P.T. Barnum. As for GF strutting around quoting that notorious seller-
of-honours Ramsey Campbell in his sig ("Gary Fry is a master"), well,
either he's omitted the word "baiter" from the sentence or else it's
as Shaun Hutson says, Campbell will happily furnish a flattering quote
for any friend or fan.
(The interesting question here is why: who does RC ladle out praise
upon undeserved writers? The answer is: he likes to see his name in
print, and he likes to collect the scalps of his debtors.)
Now, seeing as RC and his minions are ignoring my comments while I
ignore theirs (!), I'd just like to comment on Campbell's 'Pavlovian'
reference. He's quite right, of course: whenever he pops up on usenet
(and it's almost always in response to something I've said, just like
his blog), I can't resist slapping him in the face with a big juicy
raspberry Pavlova.
Shrike
>
> - Show quoted text -
I wasn't criticising your reviewing talents, though I can understand
why you might think I had. No, what irked me was the whole drawn out
comedy of a two-week interactive-review in which the author leapt
about enthusing about his own work while helpfully pointing-out the
literary brilliance or subtlety that readers more ignorant than Gary
MacMahon may have missed. It was a stomach-churning display of pompous
egocentricty.
At the one extreme we have artists who cultivate mystery. They prefer
not to discuss their work and refuse to talk about specific details.
They allow the critic and viewer to draw their own conclusions. At the
other end, we have the artists who are control-freaks, who like to
dictate how their work should be viewed. These people like to get up
close to the reviewers, and either bully or flatter them.
I'm an advocate for the former and am suspicious of anyone who likes
to discuss their work in detail. The moment I stumbed into the small
press horror world, I realised that a genre I loved was dominated by a
culture of flattery and control-freakery.
Arguably the unhealthy and incestuous reviewing habits on the RCMB and
at All Hallows stem from the example set by their respective leaders.
RC has been a very aggressive and confrontational 'hands-on' advocate
of his own talents for over thirty years, so it's little wonder that
his disciples follow suit.
Oh, and it can't help that Fry is the RCMB moderator. Who on that
board would dare disagree with him? He can prevaricate all he likes
about people speaking their minds, but the truth is, they don't. They
don't want to be frozen out and they don't want to be argued into
submission.
riley...@ntlworld.com
> On Mar 7, 2:57 pm, rileybo...@ntlworld.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mar 7, 2:34 pm, cone zero <bfitzwo...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > On Mar 7, 1:58 pm, Shrike <hauntedri...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Mar 6, 9:44 pm, williemeikle <meiklewill...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Mar 6, 7:28 am, Zarok <hauntedri...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > Undoubtedly the internet has facilitated many innovations but I have
> > > > > > just chanced across one of the very worst: the 'interactive review',
> > > > > > where reviewer and author prance around each other for an unendurable
> > > > > > two weeks:
>
> > > > > >http://www.knibbworld.com/campbelldiscuss/messages/1/1606.html?123633...
>
> > > > > Thanks for the link. Des Lewis usually has good judgement when it
> > > > > comes to writers, so I'll probably buy the book concerned.
>
> > > > > Williehttp://www.williammeikle.com
>
> > > > Do as you want, Willy. You're hardly going to spite me if you buy GF's
> > > > book as I have no interest in it either way.
>
> > > > The creation of the two-week interactive-review in a back-scratching
> > > > environment is _not_ a healthy development, regardless of Des's
> > > > various talents.
>
> > > I genuinely think 'The Impelled' by Gary Fry is a great book, for the
> > > reasons given.
>
> > > This is one of a number of books I've reviewed in this manner since
>
> - Show quoted text -
Chris, after having published two extraordinarily well produced and
beautiful books as The Dreams of Cardinal Vittorini and The Complete
Symphonies of Adolf Hitler, I can't understand why you could not sit
back on your laurels, even if some people may have criticised them.
They're books whose qualities speak for themselves. Involving yourself
in internet feuds has only isolated you. Personally, I don't care how
other people may or may not over exagerate the qualities of various
writers or whether they are involved in some kind of sycophancy. I
don't care who wins various awards. At the end of the day, readers
will make their own minds up about whether a writer is any good or
not, if their reputations are over-inflated. Striking out like you do
at so many targets - contunually - diminishes your credibility.
David
cone zero
>
>
> I wasn't criticising your reviewing talents, though I can understand
> why you might think I had. No, what irked me was the whole drawn out
> comedy of a two-week interactive-review in which the author leapt
> about enthusing about his own work while helpfully pointing-out the
> literary brilliance or subtlety that readers more ignorant than Gary
> MacMahon may have missed. It was a stomach-churning display of pompous
> egocentricty.
Hi, Chris.
I don't agree on your last bit above. There may have been some
extaneous badinage on that RC Discussion thread, but I have shown the
interchange between me and GF (ie.the exchanges that were not included
in the final review) in the comments at the bottom here:
http://weirdmonger.blog-city.com/the_impelled__other_headtrips_by_gary_fry.htm
(I posted them there yesterday before I saw this Google thread). This
exchange shows sober and philosophical points, not bombast.
Hope you're well.
Not seen you on Shocklines lately.
des
Shrike
> On Mar 7, 6:01 pm, Shrike <hauntedri...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mar 7, 2:57 pm, rileybo...@ntlworld.com wrote:
>
> > > On Mar 7, 2:34 pm, cone zero <bfitzwo...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > > On Mar 7, 1:58 pm, Shrike <hauntedri...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Mar 6, 9:44 pm, williemeikle <meiklewill...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Mar 6, 7:28 am, Zarok <hauntedri...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > Undoubtedly the internet has facilitated many innovations but I have
> > > > > > > just chanced across one of the very worst: the 'interactive review',
> > > > > > > where reviewer and author prance around each other for an unendurable
> > > > > > > two weeks:
>
> > > > > > >http://www.knibbworld.com/campbelldiscuss/messages/1/1606.html?123633...
>
> > > > > > Thanks for the link. Des Lewis usually has good judgement when it
> > > > > > comes to writers, so I'll probably buy the book concerned.
>
> > > > > > Williehttp://www.williammeikle.com
>
> > > > > Do as you want, Willy. You're hardly going to spite me if you buy GF's
> > > > > book as I have no interest in it either way.
>
> > > > > The creation of the two-week interactive-review in a back-scratching
> > > > > environment is _not_ a healthy development, regardless of Des's
> > > > > various talents.
>
> > > > I genuinely think 'The Impelled' by Gary Fry is a great book, for the
> > > > reasons given.
>
> > > > This is one of a number of books I've reviewed in this manner since
It's the Withnail in me, I'm afraid.
jpe...@cnw.com
> Undoubtedly the internet has facilitated many innovations but I have
> just chanced across one of the very worst: the 'interactive review',
> where reviewer and author prance around each other for an unendurable
> two weeks:
>
>
> This is worse than watching a car crash in slow motion. Rarely have
> such minor achievements been celebrated in such exhausting detail.
> It's like watching a ten hour documentary on the maing of 'Keeping Up
> Appearances'.
>
> Irony reaches a new level when Mr Fry - hardly the literary equivalent
> of Ballard or Greene himself - pokes fun at Shaun Hutson, imagining
> him to have desecrated Oscar Wilde's grave. Well, bearing in mind that
> Fry sets out to ape Thomas Ligotti, Reggie Oliver and Robert Aickman -
> but fails miserably - then a charge of desecration could just as
> easily be levelled at him.
>
> But enough of these politics! If you enjoy a cheesy toe-curling read,
> you could do a lot worse than glance through the unfolding nightmare
> that is 'The Interactive Review Of A Reasonably Good But Far From
> Special Book' by Gary Fry.
>
> NB. Why oh why oh why does no one else speak out about such matters?
> Everybody's too busy kissing everybody else's derriere. It's a
> shocking state of affairs, especially amongst writers and readers who
> by virtue of their wide reading should know better. To call it
> parochial, provincial and incestuous would be an understatement.
>
> [Strides off into the night muttering about spineless sycophants and
> diseased dictators.]
What a sad, spiteful litle creature you are. After being off-line for
two weeks it's a shame to log on and instead of seeing discussion of
ghostly fiction, there are pages and pages of Barkerspew. Shameful.
I see that the folks at Ex Occident are foredooming themselves to
failure by actually publishing a Barker collection...
Puppet Master (the artist formerly known as Shrike)
>
> - Show quoted text -
Oh dear, been sacked again from your day job, Pelan?
I notice that your various publishing sites have all disappeared,
presumably because (according to one of your previous writing
partners), you've left a trail of debts and defrauded writers in your
wake.
According to your vainglorious, self-authored Wikipedia entry you were
meant to be publishing several new books. Of course, the information
is several years old, but the promised books have failed to
materialise. In the interests of accuracy, perhaps you should revise
your entry.
I also seem to recall your announcing a few years ago that some
friends of yours would be publishing a collection of your quite
frankly unreadable short stories. That too has failed to materialise.
Let's face it, old bean, you're all washed-up, and as I've now
finished grieving for my sons' debilitating disabilities, and am
moving on with more positive projects, I myself no longer have any use
for you, even as a combatant (inadequate though you were). I'm no
longer interested in your opinions, your arguments or your sordid
little life. You are irrelevant.
Consider this my final response to your pathetic bleats for attention.
You've said and alleged some incredibly nasty things over the years,
things that only a psychopath would say, but I now see that you are
poisoned inside, and that you can't help yourself.
I pity your wife and her children and anyone else you try to sink your
claws into but your own embarrassing downward spiral leaves me
unmoved.
Lesmond
known as Shrike) wrote:
>
>Consider this my final response
Not fucking likely.
--
It doesn't matter if I'm still the lost ball in the weeds.
jpe...@cnw.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
What a sad little wanker you prove yourself to be. As to projects
announced, all are going ahead as planned. We've just released a very
nice volume of Joseph Payne Brennan, (which is likely outside your
price range). As to my own collection, it remains with a publisher
whom I trust to make a good job of it, so no worries there (again, it
will likely be outside your price range, unless the cabbages have a
good season.
As to being "all washed up"? I'm currently editing two massive single-
author collections (which again will be unaffordable to a dumpster-
diving dole scrounger like yourself), have two novels under contarct
in NY, two books with speciality presses, and will be a consluting
editor on a new journal of weird fiction studies. Unfortunately, with
a consulting business in water/wastewater treatment equipment and a
rather large territory, that's all I've time for at present.
I'm sure that between your "novel" and trips to the playground to leer
at little boys, you're probably quite busy yourself...
riley...@ntlworld.com
nice volume of Joseph Payne Brennan"
I think it's a lot, lot better than "very nice"! It's one of the best
single-author collections I've read in a long time. Normally I tend to
dip in and out of single-author collections, but not this time.
Brennan is definitely an underrated writer, though I'm sure The
Feaster From Afar will go a long way towards rectifying this.
I would add, too, that the book itself was splendidly printed.
David
Puppet Master (the artist formerly known as Shrike)
> What a sad little wanker you prove yourself to be. As to projects
> announced, all are going ahead as planned. We've just released a very
> nice volume of Joseph Payne Brennan, (which is likely outside your
> price range). As to my own collection, it remains with a publisher
> whom I trust to make a good job of it, so no worries there (again, it
> will likely be outside your price range, unless the cabbages have a
> good season.
>
Cabbages?
Is this is cruel reference to my mentally disabled children, or a
racist reference to my east European wife, or both?
[Not that Messrs Lesmond, Riley or Campbell have any concerns about
such such bigotry.]
Jonathan Harker II
"Puppet Master (the artist formerly known as Shrike)"
news:6e5c0746-4aa4-4012...@l28g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
Cabbages?
"Misstress Lesmond" please. You sexist dolt.
An in answer to your question it is not a reference to either. It is a
reference to "asparagus". wink wink.
TTFN,
Cris Barfer
Puppet Master (the artist formerly known as Shrike)
<ohthosevilebod...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Puppet Master (the artist formerly known as Shrike)"<hauntedri...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
Coward.
Lesmond
>
>
>"Misstress Lesmond" please. You sexist dolt.
Thank you, kind sir.
--
It doesn't matter if I'm still a lost ball in the weeds.
riley...@ntlworld.com
I would have thought it obvious the reference to cabbages was a dig at
your personal lifestyle, rather than to your children or to your East
European wife.
I have nothing against East Europeans - as I am sure neither does JP.
Hell, I even have a house in Bulgaria, in which I intend to start
spending at least half my year in the near future. This is in a
village of 600 people, where we already have a number of good friends
amongst the locals.
David
Puppet Master (the artist formerly known as Shrike)
Pelan is perfectly well aware that my (autistic) children have been
branded 'cabbages' and my wife a stupid itinerant 'cabbage picker' in
another forum which he gleefully stalked me into. That's what he is
referring to, not some vague nonsense about God-knows what else.
Your claim to know what goes on in the mind of a sick and psychotic
sadistic bully like John Pelan does not reassure me much of your own
character. His language is routinely offensive; he has been chastised
by his own ISP lying in addition to having defrauded numerous Ebay and
Midnight House customers; and he has been behind some truly disgusting
sock puppets and discussion groups. Why, even his former writing
partner openly brandishes him a dishonest and devious conman (Edward
Lee, in various fora).
By all means, you ally yourself to him, it's a free world. But don't
ever expect me to think of you as anything but a blinkered old fool
who is prepared to befriend a monstrous hypocrite and nasty bully
simply because he's been sucked up to or offered a good deal on cheap
books. I despise Pelan for personal reasons, but I'd despise him
anyway after seeing and hearing how he has treated other people.
Lesmond
known as Shrike) wrote:
>On May 5, 8:48ÿam, rileybo...@ntlworld.com wrote:
>> On May 2, 5:28ÿpm, "Puppet Master (the artist formerly known asShrike)" <hauntedri...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Apr 29, 2:49ÿam, jpe...@cnw.com wrote:
>>
>> "[Not that Messrs Lesmond, Riley or Campbell have any concerns about
>> such such bigotry.]"
>>
>> I would have thought it obvious the reference to cabbages was a dig at
>> your personal lifestyle, rather than to your children or to your East
>> European wife.
>>
>> I have nothing against East Europeans - as I am sure neither does JP.
>> Hell, I even have a house in Bulgaria, in which I intend to start
>> spending at least half my year in the near future. This is in a
>> village of 600 people, where we already have a number of good friends
>> amongst the locals.
>>
>> David
>
>Pelan is perfectly well aware that my (autistic) children have been
>branded 'cabbages' and my wife a stupid itinerant 'cabbage picker' in
>another forum which he gleefully stalked me into. That's what he is
>referring to, not some vague nonsense about God-knows what else.
>
>Your claim to know what goes on in the mind of a sick and psychotic
>sadistic bully like John Pelan does not reassure me much of your own
>character. His language is routinely offensive; he has been chastised
>by his own ISP lying in addition to having defrauded numerous Ebay and
>Midnight House customers; and he has been behind some truly disgusting
>sock puppets and discussion groups. Why, even his former writing
>partner openly brandishes him a dishonest and devious conman (Edward
>Lee, in various fora).
Do you have a link for that? I'm curious.
Puppet Master (the artist formerly known as Shrike)
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yes, but you can do your own legwork seeing as you've been less than
respectful to me on this forum, "Lesmond".
Lesmond
known as Shrike) wrote:
>On May 5, 4:26ÿpm, "Lesmond" <lesm...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 5 May 2009 06:32:21 -0700 (PDT), Puppet Master (the artist formerly
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> known as Shrike) wrote:
>> >On May 5, 8:48˜am, rileybo...@ntlworld.com wrote:
>> >> On May 2, 5:28˜pm, "Puppet Master (the artist formerly known asShrike)" <hauntedri...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > On Apr 29, 2:49˜am, jpe...@cnw.com wrote:
>>
>> >> "[Not that Messrs Lesmond, Riley or Campbell have any concerns about
>> >> such such bigotry.]"
>>
>> >> I would have thought it obvious the reference to cabbages was a dig at
>> >> your personal lifestyle, rather than to your children or to your East
>> >> European wife.
>>
>> >> I have nothing against East Europeans - as I am sure neither does JP.
>> >> Hell, I even have a house in Bulgaria, in which I intend to start
>> >> spending at least half my year in the near future. This is in a
>> >> village of 600 people, where we already have a number of good friends
>> >> amongst the locals.
>>
>> >> David
>>
>> >Pelan is perfectly well aware that my (autistic) children have been
>> >branded 'cabbages' and my wife a stupid itinerant 'cabbage picker' in
>> >another forum which he gleefully stalked me into. That's what he is
>> >referring to, not some vague nonsense about God-knows what else.
>>
>> >Your claim to know what goes on in the mind of a sick and psychotic
>> >sadistic bully like John Pelan does not reassure me much of your own
>> >character. His language is routinely offensive; he has been chastised
>> >by his own ISP lying in addition to having defrauded numerous Ebay and
>> >Midnight House customers; and he has been behind some truly disgusting
>> >sock puppets and discussion groups. Why, even his former writing
>> >partner openly brandishes him a dishonest and devious conman (Edward
>> >Lee, in various fora).
>>
>> Do you have a link for that? ÿI'm curious.
>>
>> --
>> It doesn't matter if I'm still a lost ball in the weeds.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>Yes, but you can do your own legwork seeing as you've been less than
>respectful to me on this forum, "Lesmond".
In other words, "No, sorry, I don't."
And here I was giving you a chance.
Puppet Master (the artist formerly known as Shrike)
Erm, yes I can, "Lesmond", but why should I?
Giving me a chance indeed - what arrogance.
riley...@ntlworld.com
Silly man. Only someone with a monstrous chip on their shoulder would
see "it
will likely be outside your price range, unless the cabbages have a
good season" as anything other than a jibe at you personally, not at
either your chgildren or your wife. Is it not true that you work from
home and live in the country? Is it not conceivable that this suggests
you make your income from selling cabbages you grow yourself, as if
you were a peasant farmer?
I can see that you prefer to twist anyone's comments into an attack
against either your autistic children or your wife, but, really, that
won't do. I doubt anyone else saw in this comment anything other than
a jibe suggesting you rely on growing cabbages to raise a few pounds.
From what I can see, looking back over some of your debates stretching
back to 2004, you have very little room to call others for making
personal or abusive attacks. Even when someone like myself tries to
make a fair point with you, couched in totally non-abusive language,
you cannot resist retaliating with remarks such as "blinkered old
fool". Although I wear glasses, I don't regard myself as blinkered. At
57 I don't regard myself as old. Nor do I regard myself as a fool. At
least I can engage in a debate on boards like this without resorting
to personal abuse. Of course, if personal abuse against me persists ,
I can't speak for the future. Not that that would bother you much, I
am sure, since you do seem to go out of your way to engender it.
David
Puppet Master (the artist formerly known as Shrike)
>
> - Show quoted text -
You're talking utter rubbish. What's more, you're a hypocrite, as per
your own words. You object to my insulting you.....and then insult
me.
Unless you've read a couple of years archives at uk.tv.media.misc you
won't know that a) my wife has been racially and sexually disparaged
by people who joke about "slit eyed bastards" (i.e. orientals) and
"mail order brides"; b) that as soon as I mentioned I had two autistic
children, "jokes" about cabbages and mongs flew thick and fast, and c)
not only did Pelan stalk me there several years ago (this is Pelan,
resident of Texas, suddenly developing an interest in UK media
issues), but a couple of Pelanesque sock puppets were quickly flushed
out and sent packing.
Good grief, I don't think I've ever heard such a weaker argument
offered up in defence of a third party. Pelan was only joking about my
growing a few cabbages to raise some money.....what absolute complete
and utter bollocks! Pelan's the man notorious for money troubles, not
me. My book collection alone is insured for £30k and I've got a brand
new car on the driveway. I'd have to be the Bernard Matthews of the
Brassicaceae family to afford that, surely. In contrast, Pelan has
stiffed many of his suppliers, colleagues and customers (he's
blacklisted with certain printers; he had his jpelan Ebay account
terminated; people have been grumbling about his failing to pay them
on many a message board; etc etc.0
Growing cabbages indeed......if Pelan told you to bend over so that he
could insert his [coughs discretely] into your [coughs even more
discretely] no doubt you'd believe him when he said he was just giving
you a back rub.
Let me guess....he kept you ala Riley Books sweet by supplying you
with a handful of signed Midnight House books that he never actually
paid for himself, eh?
riley...@ntlworld.com
You're very easily insulted, Chris, if that's what you think I did. As
for John keeping me sweet by supplying me with a handful of signed
Midnight Houses books, dream on. He's had no need to do anything
ridiculous like that since I have never had any reason to think
anything bad about him and our dealings have been straightforward and
equitable.
You know, I have managed over the last thirty odd years of my
involvement in the fantasy/SF/horror genres to get on with most people
I have come into contact with. I certainly haven't had the multitude
of feuds, vendettas and flamewars you have garnered about yourself
with some of the most respected people in the genre, whether it's
Ramsey Campbell, Chris and Barbara Roden, John Pelan, Gary Fry, the
BFS, so on and so forth.
You are somewhat unique in drawing so much hostility onto yourself,
and if I were you I would seriously have to wonder just why that was.
All of these people seem to get on with most other members of the
community.
I also wonder why you are so eager to repeat all these alleged insults
against your wife and children. Isn't that just perpetuating them?
Isn't that just making even more people aware of them? If that had
been me I would never have dreamed of repeating them as you constantly
seem to do.
David
Puppet Master (the artist formerly known as Shrike)
If you expect me to respect people just because you or others respect
them then that's your problem. I respect people who earn and deserve
respect. All of the people you mention have done some pretty shabby
things in their time, and what's more, I think some of them manipulate
a literary genre I happen to care for for their own personal gain.
It's a view I share with several friends, friends who prefer to keep
quiet on such issues lest they find themselves in the firing-line.
Publishing is a very incestuous world: say the wrong thing, offend the
wrong person, and suddenly you can find yourself out in the cold.
On the secod issue, suffice to say that when a nasty piece of work
like John Pelan - a man who set up two Yahoo groups openly dedicated
to harrassing me in addition to a sock puppet whose password was made
available in the groups for anyone to use - starts making jokes about
"cabbages" then it's pretty obvious he's referencing my oft-mocked
children and not these imaginary ad somewhat farcical legumes that you
have conjured up in your imagination.
Jessica Salmonson once used Pelan's sock puppet to post vile
allegations that I sexually abused my children a few years ago
(Salmonson is obsessed with child abuse having allegedly been a victim
of it herself). If you don't believe me go ask the Rodens or Jim
Rockhill. I think that even they were uncomfortable with how malicious
things had become. In fact I distinctly recall JR saying that although
he usually sided with JAS, that she had gone too far, and that he had
told her so.
Sure, I might irritate the hell out of you by suggesting that Ramsey
Campbell is an over-rated writer who has ill-served the BFS whilst
milking it for awards, but I've never stooped so low as your
"respected" friends. I've always tried to argue issues; they've always
evaded the arguments by making them personal.
So please, don't _ever_ dare to suggest that I am dragging my family
into situations like this. Pelan is a malicious thug who knew exactly
what he was doing when he mentioned 'cabbages'. You may be content to
turn the other cheek but I am not. I'm a parent and naturally
defensive of my kids.
It appalls me that the proprietor of Riley Books is prepared to try
and defend Pelan's behaviour with such a weak argument; worse, that
you try to accuse me of imagining the slight and then blame me for
referencing my family. The archives of UMTM are littered with sick
jokes about 'mongs' and 'cabbages' as Pelan is well aware.
On ethical grouds I wouldn't buy a book from you if you were the last
bookshop in the world. You don't like me because I've slighted you;
Miekle doesn't like me because I've called his work low-brow; Campbell
doesn't like me because I think he's an over-rated hypocrite; etc etc;
but notwithstanding all of these 'professional' disagreements and
conflicts, it beggars belief that some of you will turn a blind eye or
even defend personal attacks on my family members. Sure, I would
probably turn the other way if I saw someone toss a brick through your
shop window, but if someone did it to your family home I wouldn't
hesitate to chase them down the street, irrespective of my personal
dislike for you.
Puppet Master (the artist formerly known as Shrike)
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
And I note that you stock books by most of your "respected" friends:
Well, seeing as the two Reggie Oliver books I published are sold out
and you can't hold of copies, there's no reason for you to treat me
with the same respect as you accord others, is there?
In fact I think I'll drop a line to Dan at Ex Occ Press to say that I
would object to your stocking copies of my forthcoming book. Of
course, it's his decision who he supplies (and yours as to who you buy
from), but I've found some of your arguments offensive, and I would
not feel comfortable with Riley Books selling copies with anything
that has my name on it.
riley...@ntlworld.com
"You don't like me because I've slighted you; "
I didn't know you had, which makes something of a mockery of the first
comment. I neither like nor dislike you, Chris. In some respects I
pity you. Your paranoias have driven you into a corner from which I
can see no way for you to get out.
Incidentally, as you should know, since I bought them from you, I do
own the two Reggie Oliver books you published. And splendid books they
are too. But they are part of my personal collection and, along with
Oliver's Ash-Tree Press and Ex-Occidente collections, I have no
intention of selling them.
You needn't worry about Riley Books purchasing copies of your Ex-
Occidente collection, as we are slowly winding down prior to our move
to Bulgaria. If I did buy a copy it would be for my own collection and
I would probably buy it through Dead Letter Press, as I did Reggie
Oliver's, since they package their books better, I'm afraid, than
direct from Dan Ghettu, who only uses bubble-wrap envelopes which have
resulted, for some people, in dented corners to the binding.
David
riley...@ntlworld.com
While you are on about Dan Ghettu at Ex-Occidente, last year he
emailed me with the offer of publishing the collection of my stories,
The Lurkers in the Abyss, that are scheduled for Midnight House, with
the added incentive that this would be brought out either before or
just after Christmas last year. Since I have no reason to jump ship at
this stage, I turned him down.
David
Puppet Master (the artist formerly known as Shrike)
Ah, so John Pelan is meant to be publishing your work....and here you
are, defending him against an allegation which is true.
You do know that paranoia is defined as the _unreasonable_ belief that
you are being victimised, don't you? I didn't 'imagine' the two Yahoo
groups that Pelan set up, nor the sock puppet that his friends used to
post vile allegations. They were real, they existed. But instead of
checking out the truth of the situation out, you prefer to fall back
upon the easy speculation that it must be paranoia on my behalf.
Anyone who knows me in real life would laugh outright at the notion
that I am or could be paranoid. Sure, I'm suspicious of certain
internet activity, but I've good reason to be. People like Pelan and
Salmonson have been screwing around with sock puppets and suchlike for
a good ten years or so, and even the "respectable" BFS Life President
is not beyond issuing calls-to-arms against his enemies on his message
board (activity that the likes of Reggie Oliver or Thomas Ligotti
would never dream of engaging in).
So, you've thrown your lot in with John Pelan have you, a man who has
had Ebay accounts terminated because of fraud; who leaves a trail of
unhappy, unpaid writers and printers in his wake, and who was
humiliatingly outed as a liar by his very own ISP.
Bad call, old bean. You should have dumped Pelan and gone with Ex
Occidente.
But it certainly explains quite a lot.
riley...@ntlworld.com
You're surprise sounds false. And probably is since, if you looked at
my website, you would have seen all this already. It's hardly a
secret.
You say I should have "dumped" John Pelan and gone with Ex Occidente?
The only thing is I don't go around "dumping" people. And I can see no
reason why such a thought should have ever occured to me with regard
to John Pelan, who may be your enemy but is certainly not mine.
Indeed, from some of the comments I have read about Ex Occidente on
these threads, and about Dan Ghettu in particular, going with him and
them might well have been a "bad call", if one is to believe
everything one reads online, though I am prepared to keep an open mind
about that.
David
Puppet Master (the artist formerly known as Shrike)
Hmm....so you're happy to give oblique credence to malicious
speculations made about a publisher you're _not_ working with, but you
turn a blind eye to negative comments about a publisher that you _are_
working with (many having been made by others who have worked with
Pelan, not just me).
Yes, you should "dump" Pelan. He has defrauded a succession of writers
and printers and lied outright about various publishing projects. You
owe him nothing and, like many others, you'll almost certainly have
cause to regret working with him in the future. Your particular brand
of loyalty is twisted anyway: you ignore objective evidence proving
that JP has lied, cheated and been very unpleasant, yet happily
swallow any old nonsense he or his cronies coughs up against me.
PS. I've glanced at the front page of your website twice, nothing
more. Your stock looks dull and I prefer C19th and C20th reading
matter. Having said that, I sympathise hugely with the plight of
bookshop owners, knowing many and having seen many go bust, so I wish
you better fortune in Bulgaria.
riley...@ntlworld.com
I suppose our stock will look dull to you at first glance on our front
page since so much of what's shown includes small press books from the
likes of Gray Friar Press, the BFS, Mortbury Press, etc., some of
which are far from dear to your heart. As for the rest, I did say we
are deliberately winding down. It's a couple of years now since we
last did much buying and much of the cream has been sold, thank
goodness. By the way, Bulgaria is for rest, writing, gardening,
viniculture and enjoyment, where we intend to stay six months of the
year (the spring and summer), spending the rest in the UK. This isn't
because our bookshop has failed. Between shop sales and internet sales
it has done very well, thank you, but we will shortly be in a position
where we won't need it and can spend our time doing other things.
I found it amusing you made out that you didn't previously know that
John Pelan will be publishing my collection, since I received this
email from you in February this year (surely you haven't forgotten it
already?):
"Dear David:
I hate to say 'I told you so' but, well, I did tell you so!
I have a few contacts in the book collecting / dealing world and
they've been warning for at least a couple of years that Pelan was a
fraudster teetering on the edge of bankruptcy. He doesn't pay his
printer bills, he doesn't pay his writers or contributors, he often
doesn't send customers their books, he lies about condition and
rariety on Ebay, he has ripped people off at bookfairs, and he'll sell
off private letters together with allegedly sold-out books on Ebay
(often the letters of writers and contributors he hasn't paid). Quite
how the HWA ever made him a Trustee beggars belief.
If he's still stringing you along then I wish you the best of luck in
your dealings with him but would advise you to extricate yourself as
quickly as possible. Even if your book appears - and he doesn't rip
you, the printer or the customers off - you'll still be tainted by
association.
TTFN,
CB"
"Even if your book appears" sounds like you already knew about it to
me.
Have fun.
David
Puppet Master (the artist formerly known as Shrike)
>
> - Show quoted text -
Well, what can I say? I exchange hundreds of emails and texts with
many dozens of people. I certainly did not remember our exchange and
do not deny it took place.
But that isn't the point, is it? You're defending a man who will
publishing your work for making a snide and cruel reference to my
disabled kids. That's the central point, not all of this meandering
nonsense about Bulgaria, paranoia, old emails and bookshops.
And, as has become crystal clear, you have a vested interest in
portraying Pelan in a positive light.
'Nuff said.
osc
known as Shrike) wrote:
> Unless you've read a couple of years archives at uk.tv.media.misc you
> won't know that a) my wife has been racially and sexually disparaged by
> people who joke about "slit eyed bastards" (i.e. orientals) and "mail
> order brides"; b) that as soon as I mentioned I had two autistic
> children, "jokes" about cabbages and mongs flew thick and fast, and c)
> not only did Pelan stalk me there several years ago (this is Pelan,
> resident of Texas, suddenly developing an interest in UK media issues),
> but a couple of Pelanesque sock puppets were quickly flushed out and
> sent packing.
Barky, as you well know (but will never admit), no-one gives a toss about
your wife and kids in uk.media.tv.misc. They only time the subject comes
up is when you bring it up, and the only reason anyone ever says anything
in reply is to irk you and watch you hop around croaking - and on special
occasions (when they hit the right button) go right off the fucking deep
end.
In fact, the only thing I personally feel for your wife and kids is a
genuine sense of pity. And BTW, the cabbages thing was started because
you gave everyone the impression that your poor wife (bought from
RussianPlumpers4U.com) would be put to work picking cabbages to support
your worthless dole-dossing life style. *YOU* made the "cabbage"
association with your neglected offspring.
riley...@ntlworld.com
"But that isn't the point, is it? You're defending a man who will
publishing your work for making a snide and cruel reference to my
disabled kids."
A snide and cruel reference to your disabled kids which exists, I am
sure, in your mind and your mind only. Everyone else would see it as a
dig at you.
It's a pity you can't help keep dredging up their unfortunate
condition and particulars about your wife at each and every
opportunity. I wonder whether you get some perverse enjoyment out of
it.
Anyway, life's too short. And there are too many other things to do.
Ciao.
David
Puppet Master (the artist formerly known as Shrike)
Whatever.
Puppet Master (the artist formerly known as Shrike)
Ooh, a stalker from UMTM, only a very stupid who in just two short
paragraphs my point that my wife has been racially and sexistly
disparaged.
osc
You never learn.
It's an important quality for internet fuckwits... they burn out quickly
otherwise and stop providing normal people with a spectacle. You
though... you've been at it for years, with the same self-loathing
powered feuding, with the same people... none of whom care one jot about
you.
williemeikle
Shrike)" <hauntedri...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Jessica Salmonson once used Pelan's sock puppet to post vile
> > > > allegations that I sexually abused my children a few years ago
Not that you would ever make vile allegations, would you? Oh, wait...
>Willy "Slaphead" Mickle.... resembling one of those faces you see on Interpol "Most Wanted
Sex Criminal" lists