Goodbye to all that: The Pub
general...@googlemail.com
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/food_and_drink/article3778484.ece
P.S.Burton
> Destroyed by Thatcher's reforms, Labour's taxes and smoking ban:
>
The slug and lettuce chain going to the wall is excellent news. There
are definitely far, far too many shit pubs. I have been served some
shocking beer and shocking meals recently and hopefully this will lead
to a general increase in standards. In London at least I think this is
going to hit bad and mediocre pubs the hardest. I have managed to find
5 or 6 great places to drink and they are always busy and, I imagine,
profitable. The jerusalem tavern and the lamb are two examples. Both
absolutely heaving most nights of the week. But the goose in Brixton
seems to have shut down. Boo fucking hoo.
"The licensees’ real wrath, however, is reserved for the companies,
such as Enterprise Inns and Punch Taverns, that own the freeholds to
their pubs. There is even an attack website, Punchsucks.co.uk.
These businesses charge tenants a rent and sign them up to beer-supply
contracts. Tenants say rivals not tied to one of the pub companies can
buy beer cheaply and charge drinkers less. The tenanted pub, it is
claimed, is forced to charge higher prices to meet the bigger cost.
This creates a vicious circle: as trade deteriorates, money for
improvements becomes scarce"
With everyone getting so excited about "authenticity" and organic food
and drink, I imagine that there's potential for small breweries to
really take off again. Admittedly a lot those people aren't
necessarily people you'd want to have a drink with, but their money
counts and it'll help independent pubs do well in the battle against
wetherspoons, jukeboxes and the toxic fizzy piss they serve up for
£3.50 a pint. .
general...@googlemail.com
> On 20 Apr, 20:57, generalcony...@googlemail.com wrote:
>
> > Destroyed by Thatcher's reforms, Labour's taxes and smoking ban:
>
> >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/food_and_drink/articl...
>
> The slug and lettuce chain going to the wall is excellent news. There
> are definitely far, far too many shit pubs. I have been served some
> shocking beer and shocking meals recently and hopefully this will lead
> to a general increase in standards.
That last sentence doesn't make sense. I'm sure *you* know what you
mean...
In London at least I think this is
> going to hit bad and mediocre pubs the hardest. I have managed to find
> 5 or 6 great places to drink and they are always busy and, I imagine,
> profitable. The jerusalem tavern and the lamb are two examples. Both
> absolutely heaving most nights of the week. But the goose in Brixton
> seems to have shut down. Boo fucking hoo.
>
> "The licensees’ real wrath, however, is reserved for the companies,
> such as Enterprise Inns and Punch Taverns, that own the freeholds to
> their pubs. There is even an attack website, Punchsucks.co.uk.
>
> These businesses charge tenants a rent and sign them up to beer-supply
> contracts. Tenants say rivals not tied to one of the pub companies can
> buy beer cheaply and charge drinkers less. The tenanted pub, it is
> claimed, is forced to charge higher prices to meet the bigger cost.
> This creates a vicious circle: as trade deteriorates, money for
> improvements becomes scarce"
>
> With everyone getting so excited about "authenticity" and organic food
> and drink, I imagine that there's potential for small breweries to
> really take off again. Admittedly a lot those people aren't
> necessarily people you'd want to have a drink with, but their money
> counts and it'll help independent pubs do well in the battle against
> wetherspoons, jukeboxes and the toxic fizzy piss they serve up for
> £3.50 a pint. .
I think one of the biggest reasons for the death of the pub is that
breweries are intent on giving twentysomethings the type of pubs they
want - gastropub food (ten quid a dish), hard benches, hardwood
floors, fairy lights, gold buddhas, jelly baby dispensers, concrete
walls painted purple, tin bars, punishingly loud music (which bounces
off the uncarpeted floor), vast TV sets with football on all day every
day. Flat lager sold at 4 quid a pop. They recently did this to a pub
in Balham. It had an ornate Victorian bar, all glass and mirrors and
what have you. The brewery ripped the whole lot out. Tin bar now; bar
staff with T shirts with the pub's name on it - which had been
truncated. Fucking vandalism. It's bad luck to change a pub's name. We
ran a front page splash on it, but you know what? We couldn't anyone
in the office under 30 who disliked the refurb. It's 4,25 for a pint
of lager in there now.
If I had a quid for every pub I know in London and Brighton that has
had variations of this inflicted on it I'd have enough to buy
overpriced flat lager all night for a week. History will record that
the smoking ban was the real end of it. When you walk in pubs now all
you can smell is disinfectant and B.O. Tobacco smoke and beer fumes
were a great combination.
Bar service has almost completely collapsed; rudeness, incompetence,
ignorance, impertinance (yes!) and irregularity are all running riot
behind the bar. And very few people I know under 30 even know it was
ever any different. Spirits served in wash-marked half-pint beakers;
bar staff asking *you* who's next; blank looks when asked for a bloody
mary; Stella-fuelled punch ups in front of the roaring football telly;
Guinness with inch-high heads. It's fucked. Down the back doubles you
find the odd boozer that's got it right, but they're all seem to be on
the verge of going out of business.
Joe Fineman
With an half&half mixture of ullage & gas.
And what has become of the old Rose & Crown,
The Ship, the King's Arms, and the World Upside Down?
For oak, brass, & leather, and a pint of the best
Fade away like the sun as it sinks in the west.
--
--- Joe Fineman jo...@verizon.net
||: It is only the dead who have seen the end of war. :||
P.S.Burton
> On 21 Apr, 09:43, "P.S.Burton" <dlb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On 20 Apr, 20:57, generalcony...@googlemail.com wrote:
>
> > > Destroyed by Thatcher's reforms, Labour's taxes and smoking ban:
>
> > >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/food_and_drink/articl...
>
> > The slug and lettuce chain going to the wall is excellent news. There
> > are definitely far, far too many shit pubs. I have been served some
> > shocking beer and shocking meals recently and hopefully this will lead
> > to a general increase in standards.
>
> That last sentence doesn't make sense. I'm sure *you* know what you
> mean...
yeah, I do. by "this" I meant the wave of pub closures we were
discussing.
P.S.Burton
> breweries are intent on giving twentysomethings the type of pubs they
> want - gastropub food (ten quid a dish), hard benches, hardwood
> floors, fairy lights, gold buddhas, jelly baby dispensers, concrete
> walls painted purple, tin bars, punishingly loud music (which bounces
> off the uncarpeted floor), vast TV sets with football on all day every
> day. Flat lager sold at 4 quid a pop. They recently did this to a pub
> in Balham. It had an ornate Victorian bar, all glass and mirrors and
> what have you. The brewery ripped the whole lot out. Tin bar now; bar
> staff with T shirts with the pub's name on it - which had been
> truncated. Fucking vandalism. It's bad luck to change a pub's name. We
> ran a front page splash on it, but you know what? We couldn't anyone
> in the office under 30 who disliked the refurb. It's 4,25 for a pint
> of lager in there now.
I don't know anyone who wants pubs like that. It's what the big chains
THINK people want, which is something else entirely. All the grotesque
souless all bar one type pubs round my way are only inhabited by
raging alcoholics and office workers who don't know any better. TV is
bad unless it's for football, in which case you're better off in a
dedicated pub - eg the bailey for arsenal, the cock and lion for
newcastle etc etc. Piped music is always bad. Jukeboxes have their
place, but only good ones and only in a certain type of pub for a
certain type of night - boogaloo, and the hope and anchor are two good
examples. Otherwise no. Fruit machines are the worst of all. Noisy,
flashing bastards,
> If I had a quid for every pub I know in London and Brighton that has
> had variations of this inflicted on it I'd have enough to buy
> overpriced flat lager all night for a week. History will record that
> the smoking ban was the real end of it. When you walk in pubs now all
> you can smell is disinfectant and B.O. Tobacco smoke and beer fumes
> were a great combination.
A clean pub wouldn't smell bad. Beer fumes on their own are a nice
smell. Saying pubs stink since the smoking ban is like saying your dog
smells worse when you run out of febreeze.
> Bar service has almost completely collapsed; rudeness, incompetence,
> ignorance, impertinance (yes!) and irregularity are all running riot
> behind the bar. And very few people I know under 30 even know it was
> ever any different.
True almost everywhere. Someone holding the door for you when you've
got 3 pints in your hands is an event these days.
Spirits served in wash-marked half-pint beakers;
> bar staff asking *you* who's next; blank looks when asked for a bloody
> mary; Stella-fuelled punch ups in front of the roaring football telly;
> Guinness with inch-high heads.
had every one of these last night. But
It's fucked. Down the back doubles you
> find the odd boozer that's got it right, but they're all seem to be on
> the verge of going out of business.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
general...@googlemail.com
Very poor construction from such a demanding connoisseur...
P.S.Burton
>
> - Show quoted text -
yeah well this is a newsgroup, not a novel old son.
general...@googlemail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Gotta make sense though. Know what I mean?
P.S.Burton
>
> - Show quoted text -
That's a bit rich coming from someone who got so baffled he was
cutting and pasting bits of his own posts and arguing against them.
Know what I mean?
general...@googlemail.com
No, I don't. The length of that debate was very long and running to
many hundreds of words posted over different days. It was an easy
mistake to make. Whereas you were writing one par about pubs and it
didn't make sense because of poor grammar. It's OK, higher education
has been dumbed down so I don't expect you to make sense, nor do I
expect you have a grain of humility when it's pointed out to you. You
give it the big one about clarity - as well you might: you're an
Orwell fan after all - but I wonder if you're really that interested.
P.S.Burton
> > cutting and pasting bits of his own posts and arguing against them.
> > Know what I mean?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> No, I don't. The length of that debate was very long and running to
> many hundreds of words posted over different days. It was an easy
> mistake to make. Whereas you were writing one par about pubs and it
> didn't make sense because of poor grammar. It's OK, higher education
> has been dumbed down so I don't expect you to make sense, nor do I
> expect you have a grain of humility when it's pointed out to you. You
> give it the big one about clarity - as well you might: you're an
-
Breathtaking. You really are capable of being a staggering prick
sometimes.
">> It's own output reveals it's agenda.
> Now it's an agenda? I thought it was a manifesto. Watch those
> apostrophes.
I never sub news group posts, it's a sign of weak arguments."
Not my words Rob, yours (I know you sometimes get confused between the
two)
The full thread is here:
Now you'll doubtless accuse me of stalking you, or of taking this too
seriosuly or SOMETHING. God knows you won't admit that you're wrong,
or that makes you look a hypocrite at best. But it does. Caught and
bowled old bean.
general...@googlemail.com
> > > That's a bit rich coming from someone who got so baffled he was
> > > cutting and pasting bits of his own posts and arguing against them.
> > > Know what I mean?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > No, I don't. The length of that debate was very long and running to
> > many hundreds of words posted over different days. It was an easy
> > mistake to make. Whereas you were writing one par about pubs and it
> > didn't make sense because of poor grammar. It's OK, higher education
> > has been dumbed down so I don't expect you to make sense, nor do I
> > expect you have a grain of humility when it's pointed out to you. You
> > give it the big one about clarity - as well you might: you're an
> > Orwell fan after all - but I wonder if you're really that interested.- Hide quoted text -
>
> -
>
> Breathtaking. You really are capable of being a staggering prick
> sometimes.
>
> ">> It's own output reveals it's agenda.
>
> > Now it's an agenda? I thought it was a manifesto. Watch those
> > apostrophes.
>
> I never sub news group posts, it's a sign of weak arguments."
>
> Not my words Rob, yours (I know you sometimes get confused between the
> two)
>
> The full thread is here:
>
>
> Now you'll doubtless accuse me of stalking you, or of taking this too
> seriosuly or SOMETHING. God knows you won't admit that you're wrong,
> or that makes you look a hypocrite at best. But it does. Caught and
> bowled old bean.
Copy-subbing apostrophes and spelling mistakes is VERY different from
mentioning to a strident and even rather pompous critic of prose that
a peice of his own writing MAKES NO SENSE.
Get yourself a copy of Eric Partridge and stop trying to get one over
on me. You're supposed to Mr Grown Up Sensible Legal Schmegal I've Got
Kids, a Big Heart and a First Class Critical Faculty.
Bowled and out? As PG Wodehouse said: One simply shakes one's head and
passes on.
general...@googlemail.com
> > > cutting and pasting bits of his own posts and arguing against them.
> > > Know what I mean?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > No, I don't. The length of that debate was very long and running to
> > many hundreds of words posted over different days. It was an easy
> > mistake to make. Whereas you were writing one par about pubs and it
> > didn't make sense because of poor grammar. It's OK, higher education
> > has been dumbed down so I don't expect you to make sense, nor do I
> > expect you have a grain of humility when it's pointed out to you. You
> > give it the big one about clarity - as well you might: you're an
> > Orwell fan after all - but I wonder if you're really that interested.- Hide quoted text -
>
> -
>
> Breathtaking. You really are capable of being a staggering prick
> sometimes.
>
> ">> It's own output reveals it's agenda.
>
> > Now it's an agenda? I thought it was a manifesto. Watch those
> > apostrophes.
>
> I never sub news group posts, it's a sign of weak arguments."
>
> Not my words Rob, yours (I know you sometimes get confused between the
> two)
>
> The full thread is here:
>
>
> Now you'll doubtless accuse me of stalking you, or of taking this too
> seriosuly or SOMETHING. God knows you won't admit that you're wrong,
> or that makes you look a hypocrite at best. But it does. Caught and
> bowled old bean.
PS: I am perfectly happy to admit I was wrong about many things:
Tony Blair
The Invasion of Iraq
Ken Livingstone
Thinking that you can give up smoking at 30 with ease
Marijuana
Cocaine
Tartan trousers (maybe I was right about them, undecided)
Believing you can't get a bad glass of wine in Paris (happened on my
last visit)
Writing satire in a world that has passed beyond it
And many, many more. BUT I was right about Pete Doherty and his
spastic skiffle...
P.S.Burton
>
> - Show quoted text -
fair cop - it was a very bad sentence. You'll have to take my word for
it that it would never have survived a second reading