How is Morgan related to Camber?

[ken.p...@gmail.com]

Hi everyone, I am a long-time lurker. I have been rereading everything
and poring over the Codex trying to figure this out. This is what I
have come up with. If anyone can help fill in the blanks or point out
errors, that'd be great. Or I guess, Katherine, just hasn't told us
yet. :-)

1. Camber (846-905[917]) -- Jocelyn de la Marche (849-896)
2. Evaine (882-918) -- Rhys Thuryn (877-917)
3. Tieg Joram Thuryn (914-948) -- Karis d'Oriel (917-948)
4. Either Aine, Jacuth, or Lassa (?) -- ?
5. Grania d'Oriel (?) -- Airlie Duke of Corwyn
6. Stevana de Corwyn (1042-1075) -- Keryell Cynfyn (?-1086)
7. Alice de Corwyn (1070-1095) -- Kenneth Morgan (1046-1100)
8 Alaric Anthony Morgan.

I suppose their could be another group in between 4 and 5. but since I
can't find some of the dates, I don't know.

The other interesting things I noticed were that the MacAthans, the
MacGregors and the deCourcys are all decendants of Camber. I am
interested in whether the Arilans are too, but there isn't any text
evidence for that.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Ken Padgett

[ken.p...@gmail.com]

[Imladris]

I believe the MacGregors are decended from Gregory the Earl of Ebor.

[lenni]

Ken,

I think that EVERYBODY is related to Camber! Maybe even you and me.

> and poring over the Codex trying to figure this out. This is what I
> have come up with. If anyone can help fill in the blanks or point out
>

> <snip>

>
> I suppose their could be another group in between 4 and 5. but since I
> can't find some of the dates, I don't know.

About the Camber-Morgan relationship:
Morgan is directly descended from Camber via Rhysel.
Camber MacRorie (846 - ) == Jocelyn de la Marche (848-896)
+ Evaine MacRorie (882-918) == Rhys Thuryn (877-917)
+ Rhysel Thuryn (910-974) == Robert Ainslie (901-949)
+ Tiphane Ainslie () == Tammaron Fitz-Arthur Quinnell (934-?)
+ Fane F-A Quinnell (952-1016) == Ardana de Courcy ()
+ Tambert II F-A Quinnell (-1025) == ?? ()
+ Adelicia F-A Quinnell () == Arnall McLain (992-1076)
+ Madonna McLain () == Kai II Anthony Morgan (1001-1076)
+ Kenneth Morgan (1046-1100) == Alyce de Corwyn
(1070-1095)
+ Alaric Morgan (1091)

But I'm fairly certain that Morgan (and, of course, Duncan) don't get
their Healing powers from this descent. I believe that Ms. Kurtz said
at sometime in the past that Duncan and Morgan get their Healing powers
through descent from either Tieg or Jerusha (but we don't know which
one yet).

Regarding your original thought - I think that there would be three or
four generations between Aine/Jacuth/Lassa and Grania d'Oriel (figuring
generations around 20-25 years each):
Camber MacRorie (846 - ) == Jocelyn de la Marche (848-896)
+ Evaine MacRorie (882-918) == Rhys Thuryn (877-917)
+ Tieg Thuryn (914-948) == Karis d'Oriel (917-948)
+ Aine or Jacuth or Lassa (c. 940-)
+
+
+
+ Grania d'Oriel (-1068) == Airlie de Corwyn (1011-)
+ Stevana de Corwyn (1042-1075) == Keryell Cynfyn (-1086)
+ Alyce de Corwyn (1070-1095 == Kenneth Morgan
(1046-1100)
+ Alaric Morgan (1091)

And what about from Rhysel through the de Courcy line (although the
previous possibly-remembered comment from Ms. Kurtz would scotch this):
Camber MacRorie (846 - ) == Jocelyn de la Marche (848-896)
+ Evaine MacRorie (882-918) == Rhys Thuryn (877-917)
+ Rhysel Thuryn (910-974) == Robert Ainslie (901-949)
+ Bethany Ainslie () == Alphard de Courcy ()
+
+
+ Javana de Courcy () == Stiofan de Corwyn (985-1068)
+ Airlie de Corwyn (1011-) == Grania d'Oriel (-1068)
+ Stevana de Corwyn (1042-1075) == Keryell Cynfyn (-1086)
+ Alyce de Corwyn (1070-1095 == Kenneth Morgan
(1046-1100)
+ Alaric Morgan (1091)

Of course, I'm not sure that either of these two is likely based on my
understanding of the Kristy School of Deryni Genetics and Healing (to
which I subscribe) - http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~khensche/kk.html.
According to Kristy, Healing is X-(female) linked, so a male inherits
his Healing powers from his mother, while a female could inherit the
Healing powers from either her mother OR her father. Because this
X-linked Healing is recessive, a female must have TWO (one of EACH of
her parents) to be a Healer instead of simply a carrier. The problem
with the above two scenarios (Camber->Tieg->Grania and
Camber->Rhysel->Javana) is that the name usually passes along the male
line. So that while Aine/Jacuth/Lassa may have taken d'Oriel as a
protective surname, I think that the next generation (or the one after
that) would have lost the d'Oriel surname. The same holds true for any
child of Bethany and Alphard.

So we still have no clue.

Now, we know almost nothing about Keryell's line. But we do know that
Keryell is Deryni. Maybe the Healing sneaks in from there?

> The other interesting things I noticed were that the MacAthans, the
> MacGregors and the deCourcys are all decendants of Camber. I am
> interested in whether the Arilans are too, but there isn't any text
> evidence for that.

I assume that the current day de Courcy line (or is that lines?!) are
descended from Camber as follows but I don't know (they, or some of
them, could be descended from Alphard's Uncle Huon):
Camber MacRorie (846 - ) == Jocelyn de la Marche (848-896)
+ Evaine MacRorie (882-918) == Rhys Thuryn (877-917)
+ Rhysel Thuryn (910-974) == Robert Ainslie (901-949)
+ Bethany Ainslie () == Alphard de Courcy ()

I'm fairly certain that the MacGregors aren't descended from Camber.

I haven't got much on the Arilans either.

Kathleen

[ken.p...@gmail.com]

Thanks, for responding. I thought I remembered Katherine saying that it
was Tieg, that's why I went that way. Also, since Tieg married a
d'Oriel, I figured that's how you get to Grania d'Oriel, but that may
be a faulty assumption.

You are correct, we don't know anything about the Cynfyns, but maybe
Keryell himself is a clue (Keryell -> Kyriell)

I know the original MacGregors aren't descended from Camber, but one of
Rhys and Evaine's grandkids married a de Courcy, but I don't have my
Codex handy right now.

That puzzles me too because in "The Priesting of Arilan" Jorian is
mentioned as being a weak Deryni with not much family left to be
betrayed if he was discovered, but Michon is a strong Deryni with
several kids, I think, from what I am getting from re-reading ITKS.

Oh well, maybe the searching is the fun part.

Ken

[ken.p...@gmail.com]

>snip

> I know the original MacGregors aren't descended from Camber, but one of
> Rhys and Evaine's grandkids married a de Courcy, but I don't have my
> Codex handy right now.

Oops! I meant marries a MacGregor

Ken Padgett

[jemler]

According to Codex Michon is the Titular Baron de Courcy, whereas Jorian
was the son of the Baron de Courcy.

Titular means "in name only", so maybe the family that got the title
renamed themselves de Courcy, and later one of the True heirs (Tutular)
married into the line, creating a weaker Deryni line, and blood link, to
the old title.

Or, as the case of Kierney, the new human holder married the daughter of
the old Deryni line, to establish at least an acceptable link to the old
line.

[Prai Jei]

lenni (or somebody else of the same name) wrote thusly in message
<1136914500.6...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>:

> + Tiphane Ainslie () == Tammaron Fitz-Arthur Quinnell (934-?)
> + Fane F-A Quinnell (952-1016) == Ardana de Courcy ()
> + Tambert II F-A Quinnell (-1025) == ?? ()
> + Adelicia F-A Quinnell () == Arnall McLain (992-1076)

We need somebody to set up an FAQ about this lot :)
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