Rank Insignia
Dale franks
the RMN at http://www.ben.com/manticoreranks.htm. It downloads faster with
Netscape than it does with IE.
I am creating an Honorverse website at http://honorverse.virtualave.net. It
will have complete Manticoran, Grayson, and Havenite service insignia when
it is done. It is under construction now, and it is very graphic intensive,
so please be patient. I will have it all up as soon as I can.
Paul Hillers
>the RMN at http://www.ben.com/manticoreranks.htm. It downloads faster with
>Netscape than it does with IE.
Dale, nice job on the rank insignia's! You left out an "a" on the
address - it should read
http://www.baen.com/manticoreranks.htm But I've done that myself
(leaving off all the proper address).
Would like to see your site when it comes up all the way. Any ideas on
what you are going to be putting up
on yours? I've gotten mine (http://web2.airmail.net/havoc1)mostly
finished, but still have some holes I need to fill, and when the Ashes
comes out I'll have to incorporate that info into it as well.
PH
Michael Evans
First I can't remember any mention of BDUs being worn in the books for use
of the subdued insignia, not that I couldn't be wrong.
and second the collar insignia with the red and green borders, is this for
dress uniforms, as the duty uniforms are stated to be turtlenecks?
seya
Mike
Jim Quinn wrote in message <38827183...@flash.net>...
>Try this
>
>http://www.baen.com/ManticoreRanks_files/v3_document.htm
>
>
>Dahak II wrote:
>
>> Dale franks wrote:
>>
>> > Baen books is displaying a copy of the service and rank insignia I drew
for
>> > the RMN at http://www.ben.com/manticoreranks.htm. It downloads faster
with
>> > Netscape than it does with IE.
>>
>> I received an error when I tried to reach this page. It was not found on
the
>> server.
>>
>> Mike
>
LARRY
"Dale franks" <da...@dalefranks.com> wrote:
> Baen books is displaying a copy of the service and rank insignia I
drew for
> the RMN at http://www.ben.com/manticoreranks.htm. It downloads faster
with
> Netscape than it does with IE.
Ummm, mot to be picky, but is this supposed to be
http://www.baen.com/manticoreranks.htm by any chance? Think you forgot
the "a" there.
>
> I am creating an Honorverse website at
http://honorverse.virtualave.net. It
> will have complete Manticoran, Grayson, and Havenite service insignia
when
> it is done. It is under construction now, and it is very graphic
intensive,
> so please be patient. I will have it all up as soon as I can.
>
>
Good luck, Glad to see people that have content for their site, too many
are just pointers to lists of sites that point to more lists, etc.
Original contributions always welcome.
Good luck Dale!
Larry
--
"Always expect the worst, you can never then be
other than pleasantly surprised"
Ben Franklin "Poor Richards Almanac"
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Dahak II
Dale franks wrote:
> Baen books is displaying a copy of the service and rank insignia I drew for
> the RMN at http://www.ben.com/manticoreranks.htm. It downloads faster with
> Netscape than it does with IE.
I received an error when I tried to reach this page. It was not found on the
server.
Mike
Jim Quinn
Martin Hohner
>Baen books is displaying a copy of the service and rank insignia I drew for
>the RMN at http://www.ben.com/manticoreranks.htm. It downloads faster with
>Netscape than it does with IE.
Like most of the badges, but one thing I'd like to point out::
In one of the early books, "The Honor of the Queen", I think, there is a
mention that "a vac helmet has been the universal symbol of naval service for a
thousand years" or something to that effect. I very much doubt that a
20th-century battleship is likely to be on the Naval Combat medal, for example,
more likely an impeller-drive warship or a vac helmet.
Also, the use of 19th-century cannon on a couple insignia is equally archaic.
The US military uses that because, well, when the insignia was first designed,
such weapons were either currently in use or were used in living memory, and
that's what guns and cannon looked like. Manticore was founded by a
spacefaring civilization and Warshawski-sail ships were available by the time
the first colonists landed. I very much doubt they ever used horse-drawn
artillery. More likely, their gunner's mate insignia would have a graser mount
or a stylized laser blast.
And as for the inclusion of a "torpedoman's badge", I doubt it as well. A
Missle Technician badge, perhaps, but not WW2 torpedoes.
Manticore has enough Naval tradition of their own, they don't need to borrow
from the US Navy or even British RN. At least, not more than is absolutely
necessary.
Martin "The Mess" Hohner ****** Simn...@aol.com
Game Designer and Maintainer of the Official Website
**** The Spectrum Wars III: The Last Crusade ****
http://gofast.to/spectrumwars / NetWord: Spectrumwars
Dale franks
Well, you could very well be right. I missed the comment about the vacuum
helmet in THOQ. Sorry. If I had remembered it, I would have incorporated
it.
On the other hand, military insignia tend to include conscious archaisms.
The US Combat Infantryman Badge was designed with a 300-year old Kentucky
rifle as its centerpiece. In the books, everybody has a "marine" corps,
even though they aren't doing any blue-water sailing.
I suspect that societies like Manticore or Grayson would use traditional
symbols more than most. On the other hand, wait until I do the Peep stuff.
I will be doing something much less traditional there.
Dale franks
> ... I can't remember any mention of BDUs being worn in the books for use
> of the subdued insignia, not that I couldn't be wrong.
>
> and second the collar insignia with the red and green borders, is this for
> dress uniforms, as the duty uniforms are stated to be turtlenecks?
David Weber says that the Mattingly covers are accurate in their protrayal
of the RMN uniform. And the books mention that the tunic is worn over the
turtleneck. The tunic has a loose-fitting "stand" collar which allows the
turtleneck to be worn comfortably underneath. In any event, the collar
adornments would be for the tunic.
Second, as for the subdued rank insignia, it is a logical extrapolation of
standard military practice. When you are out in an area where people are
shooting at you, pretty uniforms with sparkly gold thingies are like big
signs that say, "Please shoot me!, I'm too stupid to use camoflage."
I think the last major army NOT to have a subdued battlefield uniform was
the French Army in WWI. They had bright red pants. They got shot by
Germans a lot.
In the first part of the war, field commanders complained to General Joffre
that the troops were a little too visible. His response was "Le pantalons
rouges, c'est France!" After several thousand more needless casualties, the
French switched to a light blue that was much more difficult to see on the
misty, smoky battlefields.
Since then, It has been generally recognized that camouflage is inportant.
I think the RMN probably would have a subdued battle uniform, but Navy
people probably wouldn't get a chance to wear it very often. But, I'm
pretty damn sure the Marines and the Army would!
jcre...@my-deja.com
simn...@aol.comTREET (Martin Hohner) wrote:
> Dale Franks shaped the electrons to say:
>
> >Baen books is displaying a copy of the service and rank insignia I
drew for
> >the RMN at http://www.ben.com/manticoreranks.htm. It downloads
faster with
> >Netscape than it does with IE.
>
>
> In one of the early books, "The Honor of the Queen", I think, there is
a
> mention that "a vac helmet has been the universal symbol of naval
service for a
> thousand years" or something to that effect. I very much doubt that a
> 20th-century battleship is likely to be on the Naval Combat medal, for
example,
> more likely an impeller-drive warship or a vac helmet.
>
> Also, the use of 19th-century cannon on a couple insignia is equally
archaic.
> The US military uses that because, well, when the insignia was first
designed,
> such weapons were either currently in use or were used in living
memory, and
> that's what guns and cannon looked like. Manticore was founded by a
> spacefaring civilization and Warshawski-sail ships were available by
the time
> the first colonists landed. I very much doubt they ever used
horse-drawn
> artillery. More likely, their gunner's mate insignia would have a
graser mount
> or a stylized laser blast.
On a white field, a scarlet line horizontal, bisecting a scarlet star,
sinister, of eight square tips. Inferior, a legend sable sanserif,
"DANGER: LASER RADIATION".
:)
> And as for the inclusion of a "torpedoman's badge", I doubt it as
well. A
> Missle Technician badge, perhaps, but not WW2 torpedoes.
Somewhere there's a description of Harkness' crossed-missile shoulder
flash.
> Manticore has enough Naval tradition of their own, they don't need to
borrow
> from the US Navy or even British RN. At least, not more than is
absolutely
> necessary.
--
Jonathan C
Dale franks
> well. A
> > Missle Technician badge, perhaps, but not WW2 torpedoes.
>
>
or screw? No, you don't. Hmmm. Don't WWII torpedoes, and even modern
torpedoes have screws?
What, then, can we make of the fact that the torpedoman's rating insignia
doesn't have screws?
JØRGEN FAGERTHUN
Manticore such designs woudl have been keeps. They even went back to a not
symbolical House of Lords !!!
The rank designs could even have been created by some of the officers of the
ships that the manticore foundation sendt out to protect the claim on the
manticore system while the cold sleep ships were on their way.
Keep up the good work Dale
Best regards
Jørgen Fagerthun
Dale franks skrev i meldingen
Martin Hohner
>Well, you could very well be right. I missed the comment about the vacuum
>helmet in THOQ. Sorry. If I had remembered it, I would have incorporated
>it.
Ah, well. Too late to change now.
>On the other hand, military insignia tend to include conscious archaisms.
>The US Combat Infantryman Badge was designed with a 300-year old Kentucky
>rifle as its centerpiece. In the books, everybody has a "marine" corps,
>even though they aren't doing any blue-water sailing.
The Kentucky Rifle on that combat infantryman's badge is a symbol of a type of
rifle actually used by the US Army in it's first wars. I forgot to mention
that I quite liked the fact that you used a fairly futuristoc laser-rifle type
thing on your infantry badges, those were quite good.
As for the marines...very few nations in the real world have much of an
amphibious warfare capability. Marines have usually been simply "army-type
troops who serve on naval ships". Most Marines are glorified security guards
and boarding parties, as the Manticoran Marines are usually portrayed. The
fact that the USMC is part of the navy is due to interservice rivalries, just
like the various schemes in various nations to have naval aviation be either
part of the navy (US, France, Russia) or part of the Air Force (UK, Italy,
Brazil). Heck, the Italian air force tried to get construction of the Italian
CVH "Giuseppe Garibaldi" halted because it would be illegal for the Italian
Navy to operate fixed-wing aircraft, that being the Air Force's job. It is
mentioned in one of the early books (Basilisk, I think) that the Manticoran
Marines have in their history been absorbed by and then split off again from
the Army. I'm not sure if it's refreshing or discouraging that interservice
rivalries will last until after the year 4000.
>I suspect that societies like Manticore or Grayson would use traditional
>symbols more than most. On the other hand, wait until I do the Peep stuff.
>I will be doing something much less traditional there.
Oh, I wouldn't complain about archaisms on Grayson insignia. They kept
NECKTIES, for pete's sake, aside from the Gregorian calendar. And I look
forward eagerly to the Peep insignia. Like the Grayson coat of arms, and the
Peep one is interesting and original.
jcre...@my-deja.com
"Dale franks" <da...@dalefranks.com> wrote:
> > > And as for the inclusion of a "torpedoman's badge", I doubt it as
> > well. A
> > > Missle Technician badge, perhaps, but not WW2 torpedoes.
> >
> >
> OK. Look at The torpedoman's badge VERY carefully. Do you see a
propeller
> or screw? No, you don't. Hmmm. Don't WWII torpedoes, and even
modern
> torpedoes have screws?
>
> What, then, can we make of the fact that the torpedoman's rating
insignia
> doesn't have screws?
Not sure who you're replying to there. The portion quoted is not from my
post, which was whimsy, hence the :)...
If you don't want people interpreting the elements as torpedoes, maybe
change the "Torpedoman's Badge" caption below it to "Missile Tech" or
the like. Otherwise people are sort of *expecting* to see torpedoes.
To give the site a more serious feedback, then (Baen link seems broken):
- Loads quickly given the high graphic content. Good use of GIFs.
- Good rendering, like the elements used in the "surrounds" (I don't
know the heraldric term for that -- oak laves, laurels, braid, etc.)
- Perhaps a general use of colour other than gold? Silver shows up well
on black, and a blue-silver might represent battlesteel for naval
insignia. Gold might not be considered as relatively "precious" by then
-- maybe an exotic alloy?
- The anachronisms seem to be inconsistent to me. (YMMV.) Cannon from
1700AD, pulse-rifles from 4000AD, parachutes from 1930AD, computers from
1990AD. It might be better to go with one approach or the other --
either Napoleonic elements (fits the setting of the books in some ways),
or "futuristic" ones. They would have had a lot of time to work out the
designs (naval tech having been static for centuries while the RMN was
formed). The stylized wings for pilots are a good idea -- a mix of
traditional and modern look.
- Lose the three-prong receptacle for electrician's mate. Too mundane.
Hmm. Lightning bolts get used a lot nowadays as a representation of
either electricity or radio transmissions. Maybe a stylized "grav wave"
for grav tech applications? (5X5 grid, with depression in the center, as
curved spacetime?) Then you could keep the bolts for electrical apps.
Bolts + antennna = signals, bolts + binary code = computers, etc.
Grav + antenna = sensors, grav + oxygen molecule = lifesupport, etc. A
thought. (Once the grav comm comes off the official secrets list,
they'll need a grav signals badge...)
Overall? Good stuff. You won't be able to please *everyone* in any case,
so do what makes sense to you.