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BONSAI Digest - 16 Sep 1997 to 17 Sep 1997

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Roger S. Case Jr.

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Sep 18, 1997, 3:00:00 AM9/18/97

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:10:24
-0400
Reply-To: Internet Bonsai Club <BON...@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender: Internet Bonsai Club <BON...@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From: Automatic digest processor <LIST...@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Subject: BONSAI Digest - 16 Sep 1997 to 17 Sep 1997
To: Recipients of BONSAI digests <BON...@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>

There are 81 messages totalling 3012 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

1. Use of Japanese terminology (9)
2. Help: Bonsai Magazine Info...
3. Member Profile (7)
4. Republicans vs. Meat (5)
5. ILSC question (2)
6. Help!. . .purple pots
7. Back on line & report on Jade plant pruning results
8. Member ! (2)
9. Longevity was: Wintering and Light (5)
10. tropical seeds
11. Member Profile - Zane
12. Use of Japanese terminology (fwd) (9)
13. "Understanding the original intent" (4)
14. Sabamiki (7)
15. Limerick Banter (2)
16. Question on Ficus
17. Fwd: Buttonwood Question
18. Juniper cuttings (3)
19. IBC member profile (2)
20. Adieu for now (4)
21. Use of Japanese terminology (fwd) BANTER WARNING!!
22. art
23. Oh No! He's back!!!
24. Trees leaning towards the viewer (3)
25. Another Member Profile
26. Kumquat (2)
27. NBV Bonsai Show - photgraphs
28. Share Some More?
29. Naka's Bonsai Techniques II (Was : Re: Sabamiki)

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:38:51
-0700
From: Lynn boyd <bo...@PEAK.ORG>
Subject: Re: Use of Japanese terminology
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Herb Gustafson wrote:

> No, No, I disagree.
> The nicest literati are those that rise effortlessly from their strong nebari. They lean out among the clouds and give us the notion of
> weightlessness. A literati without depth and spread of roots is just an odd stick in a pot.
>
Wait a minute, Herb . . . thinking I have seen some literati
up in the mountains with roots so down into rocks and shale that
nebari as I understand it was not a valid term, or was practically
non-existent. They seemed to be rootless because roots were
slender
and deep and searching for anchor.
They reach to the sky like a wing - or something free - I
am not certain I like the idea of a butt-heavy literati . . .
sure have to think that one over. Will the literati artists
support either one of these visual notions?
In Gustafson's :) latest book, _Keep Your Bonsai Perfectly
Shaped_ there are some photos of trees leaning over ravines,
growing out of rock that don't appear to be so strongly
anchored at the sight of the entrance to the grounding, but
we know that they are. Sometimes long slender roots are
stretching down the rocks or over the ground but the
base still does not look flared or heavy and probably the whole
tree bends supple and easily with snow cover. We likely have
seen the same trees since we inhabit the same territory so
we are seeing them differently. How much is actual sight and
how much a flight of imagination! Okay, I will give you the
benefit of the doubt, but I am scowling.
Perhaps supply your definition of nebari.
Lynn

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:17:30
-0700
From: Reiner Goebel <rgo...@TOR.HOOKUP.NET>
Subject: Re: Help: Bonsai Magazine Info...
MIME-Version: 1.0
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BonsaiCJW wrote:
>
> >International Bonsai
>
> also know as BCI, also has home page:
> Bons...@aol.com

I think 'International Bonsai' is actually Bill Valavanis'
publication,
and has nothing to do with the publication of Bonsai Clubs
International
(BCI), which is called 'Bonsai Magazine'.

Reiner Goebel
Toronto, Canada
rgo...@tor.hookup.net

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 00:52:02
-0400
From: Paul Welch <pwel...@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject: Member Profile
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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NAME: Paul Welch

E-MAIL ADDRESS: pwel...@worldnet.att.net

HOME LOCATION: Ormond Beach, Florida...just north of Daytona Beach

URL ADDRESS: not at this time

DATE OF BIRTH: 11/28/38

PERSONAL BIOGRAPHY: Retired International Service Manager for AT&T.
Married to Dona for 37 years. We had 3 sons. No grandchildren as of
yet. Currently have a Shih Zu dog living at home.

HOW IT BEGAN: In 1968 I was searching for an elusive MING TREE and
discovered Bonsai in the Regency Mall in Jacksonville, Florida. I
purchased a Sunset Bonsai Magazine and started on my almost 30 years
of
creating Bonsai.

PERSONAL PREFERENCES: Florida Maples and Tropicals...Bougainvillea,
Rosemary, Elms, Lantana, Serissa, Azaleas and Ficus. Most of mine are
in the informal upright style.

FAVOURITE TREE: Ancient Ficus Benjamina...looks 200 but is only 7.

OTHER AREAS OF INTEREST: Sailing on the Halifax River and singing in
a
choral group and our church choir. Golfing on Thursdays. I'm also a
full time Hospice Volunteer.

OTHER RELEVANT INFORMATION: I'm an officer in Kawa Bonsai Society in
Daytona Beach, Florida and the District II Trustee for the Bonsai
Societies of Florida. I have been a member of Bonsai Clubs
International for the past 20 years.

Paul Welch
KBS Daytona Beach FL/ Zone 9/ 76°F/ pwel...@worldnet.att.net

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 01:03:19
-0400
From: Ernie Kuo <erni...@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Use of Japanese terminology

On Tue, 16 Sep 1997 20:40:46 -0700, Reiner Goebel wrote:

>My understanding of nebari is very close to that of Lynn and Chris. But
>more than that, I have always identified it with _quality_ of rootage
>(sorry, Jim ;-) ) and buttress. In other words, nebari to me is not
>just any old visible root system, it is a _flawless_ root system.

>That's why I find it incongruous to see the term applied to some of the
>most awful root systems one would ever fear to have to tangle with. And
>that's why I shy away from using it: I yet have to encounter a flawless
>root system :-( (You can tell I haven't been to Japan. Or seen Ernie's
>trees close up. ;-) )
>
>Anyway, I was always full of admiration for the Japanese to have just
>the word to describe the perfect root system, for being able to conjure
>up in just one word the strength, maturity, symmetry and resulting
>beauty of the roots and lower trunk, and here it was all a figment of my
>imagination.

Reiner,

Sound like you have made the two simple Japanese words ne and bari a
deity.
I have not heard any Japanese bonsai people speak of ne-bari with such
reverence. :-)

But seriously, if we don't fully understand the words or phrase, maybe
it is not
a bad idea to stay with words that we can fully understand.

Regards,
Ernie Kuo, Zone 9, Southern California
http://members.aol.com/erniekuo/bonsai.html

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 15:52:02
-0500
From: Charlotte Cranberg <cran...@ONR.COM>
Subject: Re: Republicans vs. Meat
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 9:05 PM -0400 9/15/97, Phil Stephens wrote:
>Hmmmmm...Following this exchange,
>>>>"Life is merely a blur of Republicans and meat"
>
>>>For those of us who don't live in the U.S., how do you tell the difference?
>
>a very perceptive person (thank you! ;-{) ) pointed out an angle I hadn't
>considered:
>>Phil, SURELY he was asking for the difference between meat and republicans,
>>not the difference between republicans and democrats, which is harder and
>>harder to discern.
>
>An interesting point and an excellent question!
>Simpler to answer, though: the meat smells better.
>(Unless, perhaps, both are thoroughly cooked first. ;-{) )
>Phil Stephens
>Havre de Grace, Maryland USA
>USDA Zone 6/7
>"I want my fellow man to benefit from my knowledge and experience-
> because the sweetest words on this Earth are: 'I _told_ you so....'"
>This kind of humor(?) hardly merits a reply, but you should know that some
>of us out here are Republicans! There I've said it and I'm
>glad.-Charlotte Cranberg
> ***************
>To sign-off this list send email to list...@home.ease.lsoft.com with the
>text of the message reading SIGNOFF BONSAI.
>--- This service sponsored, in part, by Robert Crawford ---

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:31:30
-0700
From: Herb Gustafson <h...@EFN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Use of Japanese terminology
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> Herb Gustafson wrote:
>
> > No, No, I disagree.
> > The nicest literati are those that rise effortlessly from their strong
> > nebari. They lean out among the clouds and give us the notion of
> > weightlessness. A literati without depth and spread of roots is just
> > an odd stick in a pot.
-> In Gustafson's :) latest book, _Keep Your Bonsai Perfectly
> Shaped_ there are some photos of trees leaning over ravines,
> growing out of rock that don't appear to be so strongly
> anchored at the sight of the entrance to the grounding, but
> we know that they are. Sometimes long slender roots are
> stretching down the rocks or over the ground but the
> base still does not look flared or heavy and probably the whole
> tree bends supple and easily with snow cover. We likely have
> seen the same trees since we inhabit the same territory so
> we are seeing them differently. How much is actual sight and
> how much a flight of imagination! Okay, I will give you the
> benefit of the doubt, but I am scowling.
> Perhaps supply your definition of nebari.
> Lynn

I have seen this logic before and I do not approve. We take pictures
of trees in their natural environments because we like them. What
prevents us from taking a picture over there...... or over there ?
We do not take the picture because it does not suit us. What gives
us the right to chose what suits us and what does not ? It is
nature is it not ?
We instead, view the tree from the angle and direction that appeals
to us. We then go back to others and say ' here is proof '.
An exhibit of a literati without nebari would be weak at best. My
argument for rootage includes this style; not excludes it. Your
percieved rootage might work on a hike, but would fail in an
exhibit.

Herb.

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:33:00
GMT+0100
From: PEREIRA PEDRO <PEDRO....@PORTO.MOPE.MAILPAC.PT>
Subject: Member Profile

Name: Pedro Amorim Pereira

Email Address: pedro-...@techie.com

Home Location: Valbom - Gondomar (Next to Porto)

URL Address: http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Flats/2012

Date of Birth: May 27, 1969 (28)

Personal Biography:
Born in Porto - Portugal, lived there 8 years, moved to Valbom (in
Gondomar,
next to Porto) were I still live.

When and how did your intereste in bonsai begin?
I have always been interested in plants (mother and grand-mother
influences),
but I started in bonsai about twelve years ago. I really don't know
why, but
I always tried to shrink plants and place them in caps. I even tried
fruit-
-trees, but I had no experience and they always died. The first time
I saw
a bonsai was in a panphlet brought by my Chineese Gym teacher. I
loved it
and tried to learn has much has possible about it. Since then, I
learned a
lot... but it's never enough, I'm always thirst for more info.

What are your personal preferences as to material and style?
That's tough because I love plants. With no particular
preference as to
material, I'm always trying as many varieties of trees I can. As to
style I
like them all... i look at the tree if she says: "Cascading",
cascading it is
:-)

Tell us a little about your favourite tree.
I have a eleven years-old Chamaecyparis obtusa 'Nana' that is very
nice. I is
approximately 14,9inches (approx.38cm) tall. It was bought by my
mother
to be a garden tree, it had only 5,9inches (15cm). But I was
starting in
bonsai and she gave it to me latter on. :-)

Other areas of artistic/creative interest.
I enjoy writing, pencil drawing and charcoal drawing. My mask
collection. My
aquarium. And the lattest, I'm trying to write a Portuguese bonsai
book,
I really don't know if I will publish it, for now it's just for
me and
friends. I like to walk, collect plants and rocks. Recently
photography.

Any other personal or relevant information you may wish to add.
I am married, no children. I love pet animals, so... I have 3 dogs,
4 cats
I also have a 'Hot' water aquarium with: 3 Corydoras, one BIG
Loricaria parva,
three Barbus tetrazona and LOTS of Poecilia reticulata (Guppy).
I work with computers (Technical suport, etc.). I'm getting tired
of it...
the company I work for does not pay me properly, so, it is just a
matther of
time to quit... when i find something better. I think my goal job
would be to
work at home. Oh... I also teach people to work with some computer
programs.
I've been surfing the net for over 15 years... and only in the last 3
years
I knew the existence about alt.rec.bonsai. One day in a message was my
access
to this group. Now I'm a member and my mailbox was never the same :-)
I have learned a great deal... it's amazing how much info you can
"grab"
here. I think I'm a info junkie :-)

Other: I really would love to watch demonstrations and workshops...
but it
seems that there aren't any in Portugal!!! So... if any of you
come to
my country, or know that there will be some demonstration in
Portugal... just
don't forget me :-)

I saw another question... What dreams do you have?
I would love to learn about bonsai were it begun: China and
Japan. :-)
But... it also would be great to meet all of you... learn directly
from the
source. :-)

..::::::::.. Pedro Amorim Pereira E-Mail: pedro-...@techie.com
' ## ' http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Flats/2012
:=======: http://www.sunridge.net/index.phtml?id=23239
======= "A sabedoria escorre pelas teias do tempo"

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 06:30:08
-0400
From: "Billy M. Rhodes" <GOPHE...@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: ILSC question

In a message dated 9/16/97 7:46:48 PM, you wrote:

<<I'll repot it in pure sand as soon as I can..does anyone
have any other suggestions?>>

I would suggest that you took a tree that had been growing
outdoors or in a
greenhouse and located it to an air conditioned house and then you
were
inconsistent with the watering. It would have probably been better to
wait
till spring to re pot. The dwarf is probably more sensitive, but the
other
plants may show stress later in the fall or winter.

Billy on the Florida Space Coast

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 06:53:29
-0400
From: David Bockman <Fle...@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Help!. . .purple pots

In a message dated 97-09-16 23:45:01 EDT, Chris writes:

<< Lotus International distributes Chinese glazed pots they identify
as
purple
(catalog coded "PE"). Lotus also distributes pots called
multi-colored
(catalog coded "MC") that have purple as a substantial and the most
conspicuous part of the glaze.>>

I've seen these purple pots up close and it is a unique but beautiful
color.
The pots I handled were unglazed stoneware, the purple is quite
subdued and
pleasant. In other words, it doesn't scream "PURPLE!" :o)

Sincerely,

David Bockman
Fairfax, VA

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 07:01:32
-0400
From: "John R. Ellison" <JREl...@AOL.COM>
Subject: Back on line & report on Jade plant pruning results

Greetings gang;

I'm sure you all missed me terribly while I was away on
vacation... What
do you mean "I didn't notice you were gone"? Harrumph!

Alas, I did not come back with any new bonsai material, pots or
tools.
Kind of turned into a mostly rock hunting trip. Did come back with
some
gold from the area around Silverton, Colorado though.

When I got back to work yesterday though I noticed that my Jade
plant
(Crassula argentea) group that I had been doing some pruning on was
showing
some interesting results. It had, when I pruned it last month, a
trunk that
was growing in an undesirable spot, so I cut it off just below ground
level,
thinking I would pull it out later on. I took part of that severed
trunk and
stuck it in the pot to see what would happen (I gave the upper
portion, with
the leaves, to a friend). This trunk is now sprouting new leaves in 2
spots.
I also found that there are 2 new buds coming out from the stump
where the
cut was made.

This "trunk" that I had cut off was about 3/8 of an inch in
diameter and
did have the brown "bark" of the older growth. The piece I stuck in
the pot
was about 2 inches long, with about 3/4 of an inch in the soil.

I hope this has been of interest.

John Ellison, Dispatcher, NAUPD (pretty cool, huh?),
Flagstaff, AZ (7000 ft alt, USDA zone 5-ish)

JREl...@aol.com

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotamy!

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 07:01:29
-0400
From: "John R. Ellison" <JREl...@AOL.COM>
Subject: Member Profile

NAME : John R. Ellison

E-Mail Address : JREl...@aol.com or John.E...@nau.edu

Home Location : Flagstaff, Arizona, USA

URL Address : N/A

Date of Birth : August 1956

Personal Biography : (Family/pets/work/etc)

Grew up in Phoenix, Arizona. Joined the U.S. Navy in 1974 and got
out in
1982 (8 years). While in the Navy I was a missile technician on
balistic
missile submarines for a few years, then was on the Naval Base Police
Dept.
in San Diego, CA. Afterwards I cross trained to become an instrument
technician. Got married to Holly (a girl named Holly, not a plant) in
1977
and we're still married. I'm currently working as a police dispatcher
at the
Northern Arizona University Police Department and really like it. We
have 3
dogs (bichon frise's), 2 cats and a pet snake.

When & how did your interest in Bonsai begin :

In June of 1996 we went to Lincoln, Nebraska for a family reunion.
My
sister in law had recently become involved in bonsai, and after seeing
her
starts and looking through her books I was hooked.

What are your personal preferences as to material and style :

I'm not really sure yet, though I've always loved Pyracantha's and
currently have 2 potted up and in training. I'm not sure about a
favorite
style yet either. Hopefully after a few more years I can answer this
one.

Tell us a LITTLE about YOUR favourite Tree (optional) :

Actually my favorite, individual tree is a HUGE alligator juniper
(Juniperus deppeana) growing waaaay out in the woods. This tree (as
best as
I can recall) is about 20 feet tall, with a base diameter of at least
6 feet,
undoubtedly several hundred years old. Unfortunately I haven't been
out to
visit it in several years... sure hope it's still there.

As far as my favorite bonsai, it's got to be a Pyracantha I got
early
this year. It's got a severely slanting trunk and is already starting
to get
some nice ramification. Though I've got a couple of jades (Crassula
argentea) that are starting to look pretty good too.

Other areas of artistic/creative interest :

Music, both listening and playing (I play the harmonica). Making
arrowheads using ancient flint knapping methods (pressure flaking),
the same
technique used by pre-columbian natives of North America, though I'm
not very
good yet. I also write science fiction, but have not had anything
published
yet. I also dabble in macrame' and I carve pendulums (for divining or
as
pendants) from deer and elk antler.

Any other personal or relavent information you wish to add :

I'm also an amateur geoligist/minerologist and enjoy prospecting
for
gold.

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:09:40
+0200
From: Jaco Krüger <ja...@TST.CO.ZA>
Subject: Re: Member !
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
boundary="------------C47C6163D8530E0D09707EF6"

Julie E. Bruton-Gibney wrote:

> Hey I'm only 27, even younger ;-)
>
> The young Julie
> Wiltshire, UK

Same here...

Like a quote I read in a bonsai book: "It's not the age of the tree
that
counts, but how mature it looks to the viewer"
(Can't remember in what book it was)

Jaco
--
-/-
/ oo\
__ \ - / ___
--------vvv----\_/----vvv---------
Jaco Krüger (aka Elrin Vladimus)
E-mail: el...@tst.co.za
WWW: http://error0x1f.ee.up.ac.za/~mudos/UN3/creators/Elrin

Attachment Converted: "e:\program files\eudora\attach\vcard1.vcf"

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:29:08
+0200
From: Jaco Krüger <ja...@TST.CO.ZA>
Subject: Re: Longevity was: Wintering and Light
MIME-Version: 1.0
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boundary="------------7526A2721A124FD4365F3105"

- full name Marge Pierce wrote:

> In a message dated 97-09-16 04:21:43 EDT, you write:
>
> << -/-
> / oo\
> __ \ - / ___
> --------vvv----\_/----vvv------ >>
> What is your point?
>
> Marge, Curious One
>

I have no Idea... (Maybe I'm a bit slow, but I don't get what your'e
curious about.)

Jaco
--
-/-
/ oo\
__ \ - / ___
--------vvv----\_/----vvv---------
Jaco Krüger (aka Elrin Vladimus)
E-mail: el...@tst.co.za
WWW: http://error0x1f.ee.up.ac.za/~mudos/UN3/creators/Elrin

Attachment Converted: "e:\program files\eudora\attach\vcard2.vcf"

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 07:50:30
-0400
From: paul royko <ro...@ASTRAL.MAGIC.CA>
Subject: Re: Use of Japanese terminology
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>> >
>Gee, It seems like only 4 days ago, and about 50 posts, since Reiner and I
>were jumped all over because we said we prefered using AMERICANO words to
>describe tree parts, styles etc. Everyone, it seems, thought the Japanese
>were MUCH MORE DESCRIPTIVE, now it seems no one can decide JUST WHAT THE
>JAPANESE MEAN! In only another 50 or so posts we'll probably figure out
>that "More Descriptive" Nebari word , then we can move on to the next one!
>The old dead-horse beater watcher,
>Dale Cochoy

Obviously, everyone has a different vision of what 'nebari' means.
This
does not make for good communication. So, allow me chime in with my
suggestion. From now on, when we mean visible surface roots, we refer
to
them as Cochoy. However, the proper response to, "Great Cochoy!" is
NOT
"Gesundheit!"

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 12:03:13
+0100
From: ROMERO <CES...@UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: tropical seeds

Hola Jose, si no es mucha molestia si te acepto las semillas de
tamarindo.
yo vivo en Illinois, creo hemos hablado anteriormente via e-mail. Soy
nicaraguense.
Gracias

In article <01bcbfec$8ecb3380$de4d92cc@josorl>, "Jose O. Rivera"
<jos...@prtc.com> wrote:

> Hola Romero
> Aqui en Puerto Rico tenemos los arboles con flores y frutos ahora, Quizas
> te pueda conseguir semillas si te interesan. Dejame saber. No se de donde
> eres.
>
> ROMERO <CES...@uiuc.edu> wrote in article
> <CESARR-1009...@hawkweed.itcs.uiuc.edu>...
> > Where can I get Tamarind seeds?
> > Cesar
> >

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:07:35
+0200
From: Jaco Krüger <ja...@TST.CO.ZA>
Subject: Re: Member Profile
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
boundary="------------897E30B7DA667943512A6932"

MEMBER PROFILE

NAME: Jaco A. Krüger

E-Mail Address : el...@tst.co.za, ja...@ist.co.za,
t...@error0x1f.ee.up.ac.za, el...@bach.ee.up.ac.za

Home Location : I live in South Africa, on the plateau at an altitude
of
2500m above sea level. I live on a four hectare arcricultural holding
overgrown with trees - it looks like a sub-tropical rainforest. This
is
just south of Pretoria, the capitol city.

Date of Birth : 04/03/74

Personal Biography : Born in South Africa, grew up in Frankfurt in
Germany, came back, finished school and studied BioMedical Engineering
at the Univerity of Pretoria. I currently an doing the part-time half
of
my masters degree in the same field, while working on avionics
software
systems. I have 5 gorgeous Siamese cats (if there's not a kitten
litter), a German shephard, an big-eared owl, an Eagle I cannot
remember
the english name for, and have recently met the woman of my dreams (I
hope)

When & how did your interest in Bonsai begin : While growing up on a
farm, me and my brother tried to grow trees in pots. Not very
succesfull, but the idea sort-of stuck. I actually still have two of
those first trees I dug up as seedlings then.

What are your personal preferences as to material and style : I will
_allways_ go for the most natural look. For any specific tree, I will
go
study how they look in nature when full-grown, and try to style the
bonsai to look the same - yet small. That is what bonsai means to me
personally

Tell us a LITTLE about YOUR favorite Tree (optional) : A hundred year
old lavender bush at a local club. It is simply magnificent. It's
trunk
is about the same girth as me myself!

Other areas of artistic/creative interest : Whoopeee! Here goes:
Music
(allmost any) listening and composing, Writing Science Fiction,
Scubadiving, Sculpturing, Astronomy, Web designing, Computer art,
Artificial intelligence, philosophy and Siamese cats to name a few.

Any other personal or relevant information you wish to add : Hmmm.
I am currently working on a fully immersive virtual world that is
based
on a novel I am currently writing in parralel. When finished, about 30
people simultaneously will be able to visit and interact with the
world
and it's characters. You will be able to be part of the ongoing
storyline that will (hopefully) never end. I hope to use this virtual
world as the source and inspiration for my art.

--
-/-
/ oo\
__ \ - / ___
--------vvv----\_/----vvv---------
Jaco Krüger (aka Elrin Vladimus)
E-mail: el...@tst.co.za
WWW: http://error0x1f.ee.up.ac.za/~mudos/UN3/creators/Elrin

Attachment Converted: "e:\program files\eudora\attach\vcard3.vcf"

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:04:30
EDT
From: "Kris Rhen [CSS x135]" <rh...@AII.EDU>
Subject: Re: Member Profile

NAME : Kristopher W. Rhen

E-Mail Address : rh...@aii.edu

Home Location : Pittsburgh, PA

URL Address : http://www.lm.com/~rhenk (though it is VERY out of
date, like
it shows 3-1/2 month pictures of my 19 month old girl :-)

Date of Birth : October 3, 1967

Personal Biography : (Family/pets/work/etc)
Born in West Virginnie (hick by nature). Moved to PA at the
age of 3 and
lived in the Pittsburgh area ever since. Undergrad at CWRU in
Cleveland,
Biomedical Engineer. Masters at U. of Pitt in Electrical
Engineering.
Married wife (Theresa) while in grad school. First (and
current) job
doing Systems Programming for the Art Institutes
International, where I'm
now the webmaster. First child, Kristina, is my current first
hobby.
Dog named Shaka, half black-lab, half golden retriever, so
she's lovable
and lazy. Live in McMurray where I grew up. Nice place.

When & how did your interest in Bonsai begin :
About three years ago, father-n-law had a book borrowed from a
friend.
Got himself a juniper and kept it inside until it turned
crispy brown
and died. Read the book and have been hooked ever since.
First year killed
several trees. Now I'm starting to get the hang of it :-)

What are your personal preferences as to material and style :
Haven't developed any yet. I like them all. I've tried to
develop a
diverse starter collection so I'm still learning about species
etc. and
the "mechanics" behind the art.

Tell us a LITTLE about YOUR favourite Tree (optional) :
My little hornbeam, still developing, but I love it's leaves.

Other areas of artistic/creative interest :
Writing (fantasy/sci-fi/horror). Computers and anything to do
with them.
Art (out of practice, but mostly pen-and-ink and pencil, some
oils). Music,
listening and play keyboards/synthesizers. Martial Arts
(though again
out of practice). Collect books and antiques (Victorian
furniture,
Eastlake, Ren. Revival, and Moriage Dragonware [porcelain with
slip-
reliefs of dragons, beautiful stuff, someday I'll put pics on
my completely
out-of-date website] ). Website design on the side.

Any other personal or relavent information you wish to add :
nada.
-------------------------
KRIS RHEN
rh...@aii.edu
http://www.lm.com/~rhenk

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:24:41
-0400
From: - full name Marge Pierce <BONSA...@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Longevity was: Wintering and Light

In a message dated 97-09-17 07:26:25 EDT, you write:

<< << -/-
> / oo\
> __ \ - / ___
> --------vvv----\_/----vvv------ >> >>

I'm curious about the chicken scratches at the end of all your
postings.
Does it mean Kilroy was Here, or Stamp out Mental Health, or ??????/

Marge, Central Florida

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:10:13
-0400
From: DaleCochoy <DaleC...@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject: Re: ILSC question
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

"
> OK, I admit it..I am one of those perverted individuals
> that LOVE SERISSAS! They don't ALWAYS love me back, but
> I think I do better than average.
> The dwarf is not doing well at all. At first it looked like
> it was not getting enough water, but I was suspicious of the
> possibility of a root problem. I let the soil dry out fairly
> well before watering again. Now some of the leaves are turning
> brown from the tips.
>
> I'll repot it in pure sand as soon as I can..does anyone
> have any other suggestions?

I have a suggestion, get three more!
Dale Cochoy

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:17:56
-0400
From: DaleCochoy <DaleC...@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject: Re: Use of Japanese terminology
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> DaleCochoy wrote:
> >
> > > >
> > Gee, It seems like only 4 days ago, and about 50 posts, since Reiner
and I
> > were jumped all over because we said we prefered using AMERICANO words
>
> Now hold on a minute here! I never said anything about preferring
> AMERICANO words! I think I expressed my preference for ENGLISH words.
> Never even crossed my mind to suggest we revert to CANUCK lingo. Maybe
> we can hear from the AUSSIES and KIWIES about this.
>
> ;-))
>
> Reiner Goebel

You are absolutely right Reiner! I should have said NORTE AMERICANO
words,
thats sort of close to English, EH?. Do you suppose the Ausies (JEFF?)
have
a diferent word for rootage and root base? You did bring up a subject
I
hadn't thought of though, what is the CANUCK word for root base? No
French
now Reiner!
Dale

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:33:50
-0400
From: TomZ...@AOL.COM
Subject: Member Profile - Zane

NAME: Thomas (Tom) Zane

EMAIL ADDRESS: tomz...@aol.com

HOME LOCATION: Daytona Beach, Florida, USA in winters and since
retiring the
second time we flee the heat and humidity of Florida and spend summers
in
eastern Connecticut outside of New London.

URL ADDRESS: http://members.aol.com/tomz50925/indexbyb.html

DATE OF BIRTH: 26 November 1933

PERSONAL BIOGRAPHY: Born and raised in Daytona Beach, Florida. Met
Sena, my
wife of 40+ years, while we were both attending the University of
Florida
where I received a BA in Sociology. Later earned a Mcrim (Master of
Criminology) degree from the University of California at Berkeley.
Served in
the US Army Military Police Corps in several states and overseas in
Korea,
Germany, Panama Canal Zone and Japan, in that order, and retired as a
Lieutenant Colonel, moved back to Daytona Beach and used 16 months of
my GI
Bill to attend the Ornamental Horticulture Certification Program at
Daytona
Beach Community College. While attending the course I started BACKYARD
BONSAI, initially a bonsai nursery and now just a publishing company.
For 14
years taught various law enforcement and criminal justice courses at
DBCC.
Retired a second time in 1993 and became more deeply involved in
volunteer
activities.

WHEN & HOW DID YOUR INTEREST IN BONSAI BEGIN: Shortly after arriving
in Japan
I paid a liaison visit to the Chief of Police of the town adjacent to
my
headquarters. In his office was a beautiful five-needle pine which I
had
difficulty getting my eyes off. A few days later I received as a gift
my
first bonsai, a large slanting style five-needle pine which really got
me
started. For the next two plus years I took bonsai lessons and became
thoroughly hooked.

WHAT ARE YOUR PERSONAL PREFERENCES AS TO MATERIAL AND STYLE: Because I
spend
my year in two different places and take my 50 or so tree collection
with me,
I have been forced to specialize in miniature trees. I like all
styles.

TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT YOUR FAVORITE TREE: A cork bark elm in the
ancient
style, reminding me of some of the truly ancient (1200 - 1500 year
old) trees
I have seen in England.

OTHER AREAS OF ARTISTIC/CREATIVE INTEREST: Being an amateur
photographer, an
intermediate student of bonsai and a professional instructor, for the
past 20
years I have combined these talents in the area of bonsai education. I
began
by teaching basic bonsai. Then, in my search for audio visual material
to
accompany the instruction, I ended up managing the BCI AV rental
program for
15 years. During that time I created several new slide/tape and video
programs for the organization. Then not finding an appropriate
syllabus for
my students, I wrote and published, INTRODUCTION TO BONSAI - A COURSE
SYLLABUS which has been updated an untold number of times since the
first
printing. In the course of my managing the BCI AV program I recognized
a
significant increase in the number of people teaching bonsai and a
commensurate need for help in the teaching process. So I wrote and
published
the INSTRUCTOR'S MANUAL FOR INTRODUCTION TO BONSAI - A COURSE SYLLABUS
which
also is still in print and is revised with nearly every printing.
(Details on
both publications at my web page.)

ANY OTHER PERSONAL OR RELEVANT INFORMATION YOU WISH TO ADD: We have
three
children and nine grandchildren. No pets, the bonsai are enough. I
started
the Kawa Bonsai Society in Daytona Beach, Florida, am the past
president of
the Bonsai Societies of Florida and their current Membership Chairman,
a
has-been Director for Bonsai Clubs International and am their current
webmaster. I recently edited the American Bonsai Society's BONSAI
MANUAL FOR
APPRECIATING, JUDGING AND BUYING BONSAI. Am currently working with
both ABS
and BCI to develop programs which will be available to provide
assistance
when a bonsai's primary care giver is incapacitated or deceased. In
another
project, am working with ABS in developing a rather large and unique
bonsai
educational program which will make instruction on the art of bonsai
more
widely available.

Tom Zane, tomz...@aol.com

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:36:06
-0400
From: DaleCochoy <DaleC...@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject: Re: Use of Japanese terminology
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

"
> >> >
> >Gee, It seems like only 4 days ago, and about 50 posts, since Reiner and
I
> >were jumped all over because we said we prefered using AMERICANO words
to
> >describe tree parts, styles etc. Everyone, it seems, thought the
Japanese
> >were MUCH MORE DESCRIPTIVE, now it seems no one can decide JUST WHAT THE
> >JAPANESE MEAN! In only another 50 or so posts we'll probably figure out
> >that "More Descriptive" Nebari word , then we can move on to the next
one!
> >The old dead-horse beater watcher,
> >Dale Cochoy
>
> Obviously, everyone has a different vision of what 'nebari' means. This
> does not make for good communication. So, allow me chime in with my
> suggestion. From now on, when we mean visible surface roots, we refer to
> them as Cochoy. However, the proper response to, "Great Cochoy!" is NOT
> "Gesundheit!"

You could be on to something there Paul! It's just as descriptive.
Since my
grandfather was CANUCK, and had to change the name to suit immigration
personnel back in the early 1900's,
it was changed from Cochois, ( Michele Morin and I sorted this out and
she
even came up with a meaning for it) We should probably use the old
Canadian
version. Then again, we could use Goebel.
I'd love to have a tree with" a fine set of Goebels". What do you
think
Reiner.?
Dale
>
> ***************
> To sign-off this list send email to list...@home.ease.lsoft.com with the
> text of the message reading SIGNOFF BONSAI.
> --- This service sponsored, in part, by Robert Crawford ---

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:39:56
-0400
From: DaleCochoy <DaleC...@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject: Re: Use of Japanese terminology
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

. However, the proper response to, "Great Cochoy!" is NOT
> > "Gesundheit!"
>
> You could be on to something there Paul! It's just as descriptive. Since
my
> grandfather was CANUCK, and had to change the name to suit immigration
> personnel back in the early 1900's,
> it was changed from Cochois, ( Michele Morin and I sorted this out and
she
> even came up with a meaning for it) We should probably use the old
Canadian
> version. Then again, we could use Goebel.
> I'd love to have a tree with" a fine set of Goebels". What do you think
> Reiner.?
> Dale
>
THEN, the proper response would be "Geshundeit"!!!!
Dale

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:48:45
-0400
From: DaleCochoy <DaleC...@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject: Re: Use of Japanese terminology
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>
> THEN, the proper response would be "Geshundeit"!!!!
> Dale

Make that, "Gesundheit", Sorry Reiner, I thought I felt you wince!
Dale

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 12:09:39
-0400
From: paul royko <ro...@ASTRAL.MAGIC.CA>
Subject: Re: Use of Japanese terminology (fwd)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Words are merely convenient labels for concepts. They work as long as
everyone has the same concept. If Og the Neanderthal grunted, "There's
a
saber-tooth tiger behind you." and Gog thought he grunted, "They're
having
a sale on saber-tooths at Sears.", they'd have a problem...or at least
one
of them would.

It's obvious that everyone has a different concept of precisely what
'nebari' means. Ernie says it means 'rootage', nothing more, nothing
less.
Surface roots? All roots? Good-looking roots? Woody roots? Are other
Japanese bonsai terms equally misunderstood?

Every pursuit has its own jargon. If the jargon adds precision to a
discussion, then it should be used. If it obfuscates or confuses, then
it
should be discarded or changed. Who volunteers to fly to Japan and
take a
census of which of the above meanings of 'nebari' is correct, if any?

Paul

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:50:54
-0500
From: "Depau S. Depau" <de...@NORTHWEST.COM>
Subject: "Understanding the original intent"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi:
Has anyone considered that 'nebari' may mean nice ? solid?
well-balanced?
attractive? enviable? worthy of imitating? etc. roots. The Japanese
word
'nebari," in their language...being culturally polite...may be used
when
something is being praised, but not used when it is defficient.
Languages
do share some commonalities. In English, we use modifiers...sometimes
we
call them adjectives. Good rose, bad rose, ugly rose, perfumed rose;
but
the rose remains just a rose is a rose is a rose. When I see a tree
with
strong roots showing above the soil line I might say, if anyone was
interested, nice root structure; or, depending upon whom I really want
to
impress, Fantastic nebari. If the tree does not have a nice root
structure, why would I even want to mention it? To hurt someone's
feelings? I don't thinks so. If I was pushed to say anything at all
it
might be to say, "The nebari needs further development." Critique is
one
thing..criticism is another.
Just a thought...
Keith Davies
de...@northwest.com

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:34:09
-0400
From: Tom Nolan <tomn...@INFORAMP.NET>
Subject: Sabamiki
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

A recent post by Michael Persiano mentioned Sabamiki. From the
context of
the post it is related to Shari and Jin. I can't find any reference
to it
in any of my books. What is it?

Thanks.

Tom Nolan
Mississauga, Ontario
Canada
tomn...@inforamp.net

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:38:19
-0400
From: Bon...@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Member Profile

MEMBER PROFILE

NAME : Chris Chapman

E-Mail Address : Bon...@AOL.COM

Home Location : Philadelphia, PA, USA

URL Address : (if applicable)
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/6727

Date of Birth : (optional if you are age sensitive) 10-24-52

Personal Biography : (Family/pets/work/etc) Presently, I live with
my
spouse-equivalent, Todd and my two sons: David, 17 and Daniel, 16. I
lost
their father, my husband of 11 years to COPD 5 years ago. I work at
the U.
of Pennsylvania' Veterinary Hospital in the Medical Genetics research
department as a Laboratory Animal Technologist but will be stepping
"up"
shortly to Veterinary Technician.

I have 8 Italian Greyhounds that I breed occasionally and show at AKC
events
fairly often, 2 cats and one Citron-Crested Cockatoo (who's greatest
joke is
to yell "MOM" when I'm out in the yard and think it's one of my sons
calling
me. When I storm in because I don't get any response form the boys,
there
she is chuckling under her breath. Humph.)

When & how did your interest in Bonsai begin : I often admired
bonsai at a
local nursery but didn't get up the courage to try it myself until
Todd
bought me 'Bonsai Growing & Displaying Guide' by Colin Lewis and Neil
Sutherland about 3 years ago.

What are your personal preferences as to material and style : So far
I've
tried to stick with the less difficult species to reduce unnecessary
casualties but I do seem to lean towards the azaleas for my own
growing.

Tell us a LITTLE about YOUR favourite Tree (optional) : Probably my
Abelia
X 'Edward Goucher'. I bought it in the Fall of '95 for $1.50 because
it
looked like it had been crushed by a bag of landscaping rocks, all
flat and
sideways. So far I have come squeeking close to killing it each
winter, once
by forgetting to water it enough and once by watering it too much, I
think.
I'm learning, I'm learning. But this precious thing keeps coming
back and
gracing me with it's lovely pink flowers.

Other areas of artistic/creative interest : Hobbies: in no
particular
order: reading (sci-fi/fantasy mostly but almost anything, really),
remaking
and showing model horses (*this* is a bizarre hobby!), collecting old
veterinary texts, kennel management books, and group breed books, as
well as
books by Walter Farley (The Black Stallion)and Albert Payson Terhune
(Lad: A
Dog). Gee, you think there's a pattern here? I also collect dragon
figurines and just found a store near me that sells the Enchantica
series.
Hurray!

Any other personal or relavent information you wish to add : I tend
to lurk
on the list mostly because I don't feel that after only three years I
have
enough *valid* information to be honestly and truely helpful to those
with
questions. Rarely, however, does a day go by that I don't read the
list and
learn something new, even if it wasn't something I would have thought
to ask.
Thank you to all of our resident "experts".

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:40:26
+0000
From: James Kissinger <james_k...@EEE.ORG>
Subject: Re: Use of Japanese terminology (fwd)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

paul royko wrote:
>
>
> Who volunteers to fly to Japan and take a census of which of the above meanings of 'nebari' is correct, if any?
>
> Paul

I will volunteer to fly to Japan and find the true meaning of nebari.
Please have the secretary to the IBC make out a check to cover the
airline costs for me.

Sincerely,

--
Jim Kissinger
james_k...@eee.org
Golden Valley Middle School
San Bernardino Ca.
34:07:17N 117:18:08W
http://www.sbcusd.k12.ca.us/goldenvalley

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:58:23
-0400
From: Ernie Kuo <erni...@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Sabamiki

On Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:34:09 -0400, Tom Nolan wrote:

>A recent post by Michael Persiano mentioned Sabamiki. From the context of
>the post it is related to Shari and Jin. I can't find any reference to it
>in any of my books. What is it?

Tom,

You will find it in John Naka's Bonsai Techniques II, Page 67.

Regards,
Ernie Kuo, Zone 9, Southern California
http://members.aol.com/erniekuo/bonsai.html

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:20:06
-0500
From: Peter Aradi <par...@IONET.NET>
Subject: Re: Use of Japanese terminology (fwd)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

James Kissinger wrote:
>
> paul royko wrote:
> >
> >
> > Who volunteers to fly to Japan and take a census of which of the above meanings of 'nebari' is correct, if any?
> >
> > Paul
>
> I will volunteer to fly to Japan and find the true meaning of nebari.
> Please have the secretary to the IBC make out a check to cover the
> airline costs for me.
>
> Sincerely,
>
You maybe disappointed. Earlier this year we had an argument in this
newsgroup
over the correct Japanese term for a wooden base holding a suiseki
(viewing
rock.) According to several authors of magazine articles in the U.S.,
the
president of the Japanese Suiseki Association stated in a
correspondence
that
the "officially" accepted word is "DAIZA," not the previously used
"DAI."

Well, while visiting Japan in June, everybody I have conversed with
used
the
word "DAI" and corrected me when I used "DAIZA." Is it possible that
even the
Japanese disagree on some of the word usage and the "official" and
casual words and meanings could be different?
I certainly think so.

Peter Aradi
Tulsa, OK

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:05:29
-0400
From: Tom Pillichody <CEET...@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Limerick Banter
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

OK Then, How's this grab ya? -

An alien being named R'ee
Grew this fine bonsai thing, named E.T.
He cut off its toes,
And shortened its nose
'Cause R'ee was the tree, don't you see.

- R. Serling
the Twighlight Zone,
where it's eerie and chilly

also by Rod Serling -

There is a fifth dimension, beyond that which is known to man. It

is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is

the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and

superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fear and the

summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination.

It is an area which we call the Twilight Zone . . . . . .

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:48:51
-0400
From: Ernie Kuo <erni...@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Use of Japanese terminology (fwd)

On Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:20:06 -0500, Peter Aradi wrote:

>You maybe disappointed. Earlier this year we had an argument in this
>newsgroup
>over the correct Japanese term for a wooden base holding a suiseki
>(viewing
>rock.) According to several authors of magazine articles in the U.S.,
>the
>president of the Japanese Suiseki Association stated in a correspondence
>that
>the "officially" accepted word is "DAIZA," not the previously used
>"DAI."
>
>Well, while visiting Japan in June, everybody I have conversed with used
>the
>word "DAI" and corrected me when I used "DAIZA." Is it possible that
>even the
>Japanese disagree on some of the word usage and the "official" and
>casual words and meanings could be different?
>I certainly think so.

Peter,

Here in LA a bonsai stand is also referred to as "dai" by the Japanese
speaking
Bonsai people.

It seems that "dai" has a broader meaning than "diaza" according to
the dictionary.

"Dai" is defined as: stand, pedestal, rack, table.

Whereas "Daiza" is simply defined as pedestal.

Regards,
Ernie Kuo, Zone 9, Southern California
http://members.aol.com/erniekuo/bonsai.html

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 12:34:01
-0230
From: Trevor Keough <tke...@MORGAN.UCS.MUN.CA>
Subject: Question on Ficus
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Quick question for the group,
Last night I purchased a ficus (weeping fig) froma local
nursery.
It caught my attention as the trunk of the tree was twisted around a
rock
the top of the curve gave rise to two separate trees approximately 14"
and
16" tall. It was planted in 4" plastic pot. It was the best looking on
there and cost me $6 so why not give it a try.
I didn't find any reference to the genus ficus in my bonsai
book
so my question is about soil, watering, feeding and sunlight
requirements.
Any help would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Trevor Keough

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 15:09:26
-0400
From: Luis Fontanills <Man...@AOL.COM>
Subject: Fwd: Buttonwood Question

I thought this might help others.
---------------------
Forwarded message:
Subj: Re: Buttonwood Question

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: 97-09-17 15:07:14 EDT
From: ManFont
To: CEET...@compuserve.com

Tom Pillichody, in a message dated 97-09-17 13:38:23 EDT, you write:

<< My question(s) are - that I really don't know what the tree likes,
except
lots of sun. I've got it in regular bonsai soil, with as much sun as
I can
give it here in West Virginia. I don't know if it likes acid soil,
heavy
watering, heavy feeding, etc. I plan to bring it inside under lights
(with
the figs, serissas and other tropicals) for the winter before the
first
frost. >>

Tom,

I'd be happy to help.

Buttonwood / Conocarpus erectus:

Soil: Any well draining mix that retains moisture. They like to be
kept
moist.

Fertilizer: They are heavy feeders especially when growing in the hot
months. Feed full strength every week and every two weeks in the cold
season.
I use Miracid with excellent results. This maintains the soil PH
slightly
acid.

Light: Full sun for best growth.

Temperature: Do not let the temperature fall below 40 degrees F. This
is a
sub-tropical species native to the Florida Keys (USDA Zone 11).
Maintain
hot for best growth.

Watering: Every day - maintain a moist soil/media.

Repotting: Best done in the mid-summer heat. High humidity is very
helpful.
Can be root pruned hard if a balancing removal of the foliage is
performed at
the same time.

Shaping and Pruning: Wiring and clip & grow methods are both
successful. I
use both, and pinch new growth back to 1 or 2 nodes when the braches
have
reached the design length desired. Leaves will reduce through bonsai
culture.
Can be cut back hard and will back bud on old wood easily.

Deadwood : Many specimens have excellent deadwood. Preserve with lime
sulfur,
and as per recent posts, with Minwax Wood Hardener (see IBC archives
for
further info.).

Pests and Diseases: Very resistant in my experience to both.

Publications: Bonsai with Tropicals newsletter is featuring
buttonwood in
the most recent issue. Contact: Mary Miller (editor)
bons...@aol.com

Sincerely,

Luis Fontanills
Miami, Florida

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 15:12:51
EDT
From: "Kris Rhen [CSS x135]" <rh...@AII.EDU>
Subject: Juniper cuttings

Yesterday I decided to check on some Juniper Rubusta green cuttings
I'd
taken in the Spring as an experiment. I had seven cuttings in sand
and
Bonsai soil (generic bagged mix) because I didn't have enough sand to
go around. Anyway, only one truly rooted, with a couple long roots.
The others seem to have formed pale to reddish lumps at the base, but
no roots. What are these growths? Could they be the starts of roots
which couldn't penetrate well into the coarse bonsai soil (just
guessing here)?

Also, a nomeclature question. What does the 'Nana' mean in
scientific names like Juniperus procumbens 'Nana'? Just
curious... who was this Nana woman that discovered so
many species of plants :-)

-------------------------
KRIS RHEN
rh...@aii.edu
http://www.lm.com/~rhenk

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 15:12:45
-0400
From: Ernie Kuo <erni...@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: IBC member profile

Hi Folks,

My profile is much less impressive than Herb Gustafson's and more
boring. If
Lynn reads it she will say "Get a life, Ernie." I am not going to
waste band-width
by typing it all out here. For those who have nothing better to do you
can find
my biography and a picture of my wife and I at:

http://members.aol.com/erniekuo/bio.htm

Regards,
Ernie Kuo, Zone 9, Southern California
http://members.aol.com/erniekuo/bonsai html

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:37:51
-0500
From: Gary Sutton <gsu...@HALNET.COM>
Subject: Re: Republicans vs. Meat
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Good for you Charlotte Cranberg. I'm glad you said it. I admire Phil's
bonsai skills and his humor...can't go along with his politics
though...

Gary Sutton gsu...@halnet.com
Duncan, OK

///
>
>>"I want my fellow man to benefit from my knowledge and experience-
>> because the sweetest words on this Earth are: 'I _told_ you so....'"
>>This kind of humor(?) hardly merits a reply, but you should know that some
>>of us out here are Republicans! There I've said it and I'm
>>glad.-Charlotte Cranberg
>> ***************

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 15:51:09
-0400
From: paul royko <ro...@ASTRAL.MAGIC.CA>
Subject: Re: Use of Japanese terminology (fwd)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Peter Aradi wrote:
>>
>You maybe disappointed. Earlier this year we had an argument in this
>newsgroup
>over the correct Japanese term for a wooden base holding a suiseki
>(viewing
>rock.) According to several authors of magazine articles in the U.S.,
>the
>president of the Japanese Suiseki Association stated in a correspondence
>that
>the "officially" accepted word is "DAIZA," not the previously used
>"DAI."
>
>Well, while visiting Japan in June, everybody I have conversed with used
>the
>word "DAI" and corrected me when I used "DAIZA." Is it possible that
>even the
>Japanese disagree on some of the word usage and the "official" and
>casual words and meanings could be different?
>I certainly think so.
>
>Peter Aradi
>Tulsa, OK

Are there dialects in Japan? I know from my many visits to the island
of
Bornholm in Denmark that even a piece of real estate the size of Metro
Toronto had dialects. The folks on the island disparagingly referred
to the
language spoken in the main city , Ronne (population 12,000) as Ronne
fint
(sp.?) - Ronne fine. None of them lived more than 20 kilometres from
each
other.

So, maybe the term where you were was DAI but wherever the pres is
from
it's DAIZA. What do the Ainu call these items?

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:07:29
-0400
From: paul royko <ro...@ASTRAL.MAGIC.CA>
Subject: Re: Juniper cuttings
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Also, a nomeclature question. What does the 'Nana' mean in
>scientific names like Juniperus procumbens 'Nana'? Just
>curious... who was this Nana woman that discovered so
>many species of plants :-)
>
>-------------------------
>KRIS RHEN
>rh...@aii.edu

It's a little known fact that Nana Mouskouri is a rabid bonsaista (the
Greek word). So the term refers to her. :>)

Actually nana (or nanus) means dwarf or small.

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:09:29
-0400
From: paul royko <ro...@ASTRAL.MAGIC.CA>
Subject: Re: Republicans vs. Meat
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Good for you Charlotte Cranberg. I'm glad you said it. I admire Phil's
>bonsai skills and his humor...can't go along with his politics though...
>
>
>Gary Sutton gsu...@halnet.com
>Duncan, OK
>
>///
>>
>>>"I want my fellow man to benefit from my knowledge and experience-
>>> because the sweetest words on this Earth are: 'I _told_ you so....'"
>>>This kind of humor(?) hardly merits a reply, but you should know that some
>>>of us out here are Republicans! There I've said it and I'm
>>>glad.-Charlotte Cranberg

Come on! We Canadians know that there's really no such thing as a
Republican. The term was just created so we/you could have villains on
TV
shows.

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:13:17
-0400
From: Luis Fontanills <Man...@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Use of Japanese terminology (fwd)

Peter Aradi in a message dated 97-09-17 14:18:49 EDT, you write:

<< You maybe disappointed. Earlier this year we had an argument in
this
newsgroup
over the correct Japanese term for a wooden base holding a suiseki
(viewing
rock.) According to several authors of magazine articles in the U.S.,
the
president of the Japanese Suiseki Association stated in a
correspondence
that
the "officially" accepted word is "DAIZA," not the previously used
"DAI."

It's more likely to be a clever plot to retain Japanese supremacy over
bonsai
by sowing the seeds of semantic uncertainty to us Westerners ;-)

Luis Fontanills

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:21:06
+0200
From: Jaco Krüger <el...@TST.CO.ZA>
Subject: Re: Longevity was: Wintering and Light
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

- full name Marge Pierce wrote:

> In a message dated 97-09-17 07:26:25 EDT, you write:
>
> << << -/-
> > / oo\
> > __ \ - / ___
> > --------vvv----\_/----vvv------ >> >>
>
> I'm curious about the chicken scratches at the end of all your
> postings.
> Does it mean Kilroy was Here, or Stamp out Mental Health, or ??????/
>
> Marge, Central Florida
>

Oh! (LOL) That's a little ascii art picture I added to my sigfile...
First time someone calles my sigfile chickenscratches... Guess I'm not
such a good artist after all.

Is this one better?:

Jaco

--
___
| |
*-[*8*]-*
/- -\
I 0 0 I
(__-__)
+-------------------oOOo----------------------------------+
I Jaco Krüger (aka Elrin Vladimus) I
I el...@tst.co.za I
I http://error0x1f.ee.up.ac.za/~mudos/UN3/creators/elrin I
+----------------------------------oOOo-------------------+
I__I__I
###x###
II `II
_/_I I_\_
i__/I I\__i

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:43:59
+0200
From: Jaco Krüger <el...@TST.CO.ZA>
Subject: Re: Sabamiki
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Ernie Kuo wrote:

> On Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:34:09 -0400, Tom Nolan wrote:
>
> >A recent post by Michael Persiano mentioned Sabamiki. From the
> context of
> >the post it is related to Shari and Jin. I can't find any reference
> to it
> >in any of my books. What is it?
>
> Tom,
>
> You will find it in John Naka's Bonsai Techniques II, Page 67.
>
> Regards,
> Ernie Kuo, Zone 9, Southern California
> http://members.aol.com/erniekuo/bonsai.html
>

Ernie,

Being in extreme isolation is not good for you. I don't know what it
means either, and Naka's book is unobtainable here. Can't you tell us
info-hungry people here on the list?

Thanks,

Jaco

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:16:25
-0400
From: Jim Lewis <jkl...@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Limerick Banter
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

OK Then, How's this grab ya? -

An alien being named R'ee
Grew this fine bonsai thing, named E.T.
He cut off its toes,
And shortened its nose
'Cause R'ee was the tree, don't you see.

- R. Serling
the Twighlight Zone,
where it's eerie and chilly

==================================

Hud: Did your haikumatic move to a new owner and have a sex change
operation, or something? It seems to be cranking out all these . . .
these
. . . these . . . the. . .

Still no off switch though. ;)

also by Rod Serling -

There is a fifth dimension, beyond that which is known to man. It
is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is
the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and
superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fear and the
summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination.
It is an area which we call the Twilight Zone . . . . . .

***************
To sign-off this list send email to list...@home.ease.lsoft.com with
the
text of the message reading SIGNOFF BONSAI.
--- This service sponsored, in part, by Robert Crawford ---
----------

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:18:06
-0400
From: Jim Lewis <jkl...@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Longevity was: Wintering and Light
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Jaco . . . They seem to get scrambled a bit in the translation from
your
machine to (some of) ours (I assume they fix themselves when we send
them
back????)

jim

----------
> From: Jaco Krüger <el...@TST.CO.ZA>
> To: BON...@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM
> Subject: Re: Longevity was: Wintering and Light
>
********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wednesday, September 17, 1997
4:21 PM
>
> - full name Marge Pierce wrote:
>
> > In a message dated 97-09-17 07:26:25 EDT, you write:
> >
> > << << -/-
> > > / oo\
> > > __ \ - / ___
> > > --------vvv----\_/----vvv------ >> >>
> >
> > I'm curious about the chicken scratches at the end of all your
> > postings.
> > Does it mean Kilroy was Here, or Stamp out Mental Health, or ??????/
> >
> > Marge, Central Florida
> >
>
> Oh! (LOL) That's a little ascii art picture I added to my sigfile...
> First time someone calles my sigfile chickenscratches... Guess I'm not
> such a good artist after all.
>
> Is this one better?:
>
> Jaco
>
> --
> ___
> | |
> *-[*8*]-*
> /- -\
> I 0 0 I
> (__-__)
> +-------------------oOOo----------------------------------+
> I Jaco Krüger (aka Elrin Vladimus) I
> I el...@tst.co.za I
> I http://error0x1f.ee.up.ac.za/~mudos/UN3/creators/elrin I
> +----------------------------------oOOo-------------------+
> I__I__I
> ###x###
> II `II
> _/_I I_\_
> i__/I I\__i
>
> ***************
> To sign-off this list send email to list...@home.ease.lsoft.com with the
> text of the message reading SIGNOFF BONSAI.
> --- This service sponsored, in part, by Robert Crawford ---

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:18:19
-0500
From: Peter Aradi <par...@IONET.NET>
Subject: Re: Use of Japanese terminology (fwd)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

paul royko wrote:
>
>
> Are there dialects in Japan? I know from my many visits to the island of
> Bornholm in Denmark that even a piece of real estate the size of Metro
> Toronto had dialects. The folks on the island disparagingly referred to the
> language spoken in the main city , Ronne (population 12,000) as Ronne fint
> (sp.?) - Ronne fine. None of them lived more than 20 kilometres from each
> other.
>
Yes. Standard Japanese is spoken in the Kanto district, that is the
Tokyo area.
Kansai-ben is spoken around Osaka and Kyoto. Differences however are
fast
disappearing due to the mass media of TV and radio.
> So, maybe the term where you were was DAI but wherever the pres is from
> it's DAIZA. What do the Ainu call these items?
I have no clue! I doubt that there are many of the surviving ainu into
bonsai.

Cheers

Peter Aradi
Tulsa, OK

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:19:51
-0500
From: Peter Aradi <par...@IONET.NET>
Subject: Re: Use of Japanese terminology (fwd)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Luis Fontanills wrote:
>

> It's more likely to be a clever plot to retain Japanese supremacy over bonsai
> by sowing the seeds of semantic uncertainty to us Westerners ;-)
>
GREAT! That is what we really need, another conspiracy theory!!!!!!

Peter Aradi
Tulsa, OK

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:19:38
-0400
From: Jim Lewis <jkl...@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Member Profile
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

. I'm also a
> full time Hospice Volunteer.

GOOD for you!

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:30:29
-0400
From: Jim Lewis <jkl...@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Republicans vs. Meat
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>>some
> >of us out here are Republicans!

Gosh! I'm Sooooo sorry! I hope you recovery is an easy one. ;) <g>
etc.

jim

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:31:08
-0400
From: Tom Pillichody <CEET...@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Adieu for now
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Bonsai Cobbers:

I am dropping off the List for a while, and will also be unreachable
by
e-mail:

- vacation
- changing internet provider, thus quitting to rejoin with a new
e-mail
address. (I hope none of you will black-ball me)

I've enjoyed it and I will return!

Oh yes - I'd like to appoint Herb Gustafson as pome person Laureate
in my
absence

- Tom, in West Virginia, Zone 6
Where Tiny Oaks from Giant Acorns Grow
********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:36:36
-0400
From: Luis Fontanills <Man...@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Use of Japanese terminology (fwd) BANTER WARNING!!

<< Luis Fontanills wrote:
>

> It's more likely to be a clever plot to retain Japanese supremacy
over
bonsai
> by sowing the seeds of semantic uncertainty to us Westerners ;-)
>>

>GREAT! That is what we really need, another conspiracy theory!!!!!!

Peter Aradi
Tulsa, OK >>

Peter,

That's right go ahead and trash my theory. You sure your not an enemy
agent,
after all you've been to Japan a bit to frequently lately? :-))

On the other hand, maybe it's Fidel Castro behind it all :-)

Luis Fontanills
Miami, Florida

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:40:28
-0400
From: Oliver Muscio <oliver...@MURRAYSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Longevity was: Wintering and Light
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

At 05:18 PM 9/17/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Jaco . . . They seem to get scrambled a bit in the translation from your
>machine to (some of) ours (I assume they fix themselves when we send them
>back????)
>
Jim, I bet you,like me, are using a proportional screen font in your
email
reader--something like Arial or Times New Roman. Try a
non-proportional
screen font like Courier--the drawings look much better that way.

>>>> ___
>> | |
>> *-[*8*]-*
>> /- -\
>> I 0 0 I
>> (__-__)
>> +-------------------oOOo----------------------------------+
>> I Jaco Krüger (aka Elrin Vladimus) I
>> I el...@tst.co.za I
>> I http://error0x1f.ee.up.ac.za/~mudos/UN3/creators/elrin I
>> +----------------------------------oOOo-------------------+
>> I__I__I
>> ###x###
>> II `II
>> _/_I I_\_
>> i__/I I\__i
>>
>
Oliver Muscio oliver...@murraystate.edu
Murray KY (Zone 6)

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:51:50
-0400
From: - full name Marge Pierce <BONSA...@AOL.COM>
Subject: art

Is this one better?:

Jaco

--
___
| |
*-[*8*]-*
/- -\
I 0 0 I
(__-__)
+-------------------oOOo---- well--- but then It takes me
to see
the bat in the batman logo. Glad you have a sense of humor. Marge
Cent. Fl.

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 18:02:39
-0400
From: Chris Cochrane <sas...@EROLS.COM>
Subject: Re: Sabamiki
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Ernie writes re' sabamiki,
> You will find it in John Naka's Bonsai Techniques II, Page 67.

Naka describes "saba-miki" as the combination of a trunk debarked on
its
front side
along with "jin" branches. "Saba" (meaning mackerel) and "miki"
(meaning
trunk) are combined because the resulting debarked area resembles the
skeleton left by a fish's bones.

Yes, Dale/Reiner, we could call it "fish bones" or the more literal
"debarked, front-side trunk with some side branches debarked
(optionally:
that may remind the viewer of a mackerel skeleton)."

Chris... C. Cochrane, mailto:sas...@erols.com, Richmond VA USA

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:08:01
-0600
From: Roland Wyatt <wy...@AROS.NET>
Subject: Re: Adieu for now
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, Tom Pillichody wrote:
>
> I am dropping off the List for a while, and will also be unreachable by
> e-mail:
>
> Oh yes - I'd like to appoint Herb Gustafson as pome person Laureate in my
> absence

Pome person Laureate? Perhaps pom-pom person cheerleader laureate to
celebrate the, at least temporary, respite from those limericks.
Actually, they will be missed.

Roland

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 18:26:14
-0400
From: Andy Miksys <blac...@ICA.NET>
Subject: Oh No! He's back!!!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Forum;

I'm back and rarin' to go.

I've had messages continually arriving. After coming back from
vacation and
downloading some 900 messages, then being unable to set the time aside
to
read them, the messages started to pile up. Then to make matters worse
my
server jammed some 800 of my messages in their system and the tech.
support
juvenile couldn't (wouldn't) forward them to me. This led to an
uncomfortable situation between myself, the child tech. and his boss.
Eventually the little zygote saw the light and forwarded my mail.

It's overwhelming. Billions and Billions! I've deleted it all and am
starting fresh. As I'm using Eudora Lite and am unable to readily
distinguish whether the mail originates from the list server or
privately -
I apologize for any unreplied private e-mails. Please send again.

For any who may be interested. The sprinkler system failed yet again
during
my vacation and three small trees where lost. Like the song which goes
- "If
it wasn't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all." Unbelievable.

Any-who, I'm back.

Cheers;

Andy Miksys

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 18:26:20
-0400
From: Andy Miksys <blac...@ICA.NET>
Subject: Trees leaning towards the viewer
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Forum;

What's up with this bit about having trees lean slightly towards the
viewer?

We know that 'the rules' state that bonsai trees should lean slightly
towards the viewer. And I'll acknowledge that when a tree is elevated
high
enough (or when I crouch down) so that my eye is viewing the tree
straight
on (ie. parallel to the ground) to a point about mid-way up a tree (or
just
below), the slight lean on the trunk towards the viewer does enhance
the
bonsai's illusion of height, drama and I think a little depth. We know
all
this stuff.

The downside is though that when viewing down on this same tree, the
slight
lean aspect only hides the open front face of the trunk, thereby
foiling a
major design effort.

Here in the west when we view a live bonsai it is basically either in
a
backyard or in a show. And although we make our best efforts to
mitigate the
situation, the trees are invariably displayed too low.

Could it be that we are caught in a historical paradigm? Frozen from a
period when bonsai was 'meant to' be viewed from a kneeling position
in a
tokanoma, or - oooh this will hurt - when viewed by comparatively
shorter
individuals?

Consider - a table is about 30" high, add a stand say 6" high plus
half the
height of a 24" tall tree, a little for the pot and minus the distance
from
the eyes to the top of the head and presto - the ideal bonsai viewer
stands
about 4ft.3in. tall!

99.% of my bonsai viewing (and enjoyment) takes place in my backyard.
Since
I'm just over 6ft. tall, then I would have to construct benches some
5ft.
tall to get the full effect of the design. Heh - I'm into bonsai not
backyard construction!

So why is it that I'm styling my bonsai such that it's best view is
optimized for a dwarf?

And why is it that I'm reluctant to do otherwise?

Fire away;

Andy Miksys

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 18:16:21
-0400
From: Ernie Kuo <erni...@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Sabamiki

On Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:43:59 +0200, Jaco Krüger wrote:

>Ernie Kuo wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:34:09 -0400, Tom Nolan wrote:
>>
>> >A recent post by Michael Persiano mentioned Sabamiki. From the
>> context of
>> >the post it is related to Shari and Jin. I can't find any reference
>> to it
>> >in any of my books. What is it?
>>
>> Tom,
>>
>> You will find it in John Naka's Bonsai Techniques II, Page 67.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Ernie Kuo, Zone 9, Southern California
>> http://members.aol.com/erniekuo/bonsai.html
>>
>
>Ernie,
>
>Being in extreme isolation is not good for you. I don't know what it
>means either, and Naka's book is unobtainable here. Can't you tell us
>info-hungry people here on the list?

Jaco,

I was hoping Michael will jump in and explain the term because he
started it. :-)

I will quote from John Naka's book, page 67.

"This combination of the debarked trunk and JIN branches is known as
SABA-MIKI (referring to a sketch). SABA meaning mackerel and MIKI is
trunk, because the skeleton formed trunk is like the fish bones."

Regards,
Ernie Kuo, Zone 9, Southern California
http://members.aol.com/erniekuo/bonsai.html

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 18:52:34
-0400
From: Gail Zeigler <Aa...@AOL.COM>
Subject: Another Member Profile
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=unknown-8bit
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Name: Gail Zeigler

Home: 13 acres on the St. Johns River, 20 miles southwest of St.
Augustine
in the postal district of East Palatka, Florida, USA.

E-mail: Aa...@aol.com or GZei...@gbso.net

URL: nope

Date of Birth: 13 June 1936……submitted without comment.

Biography: Originally from Tennessee, I kept moving south with
stopovers
in Savannah, GA and Jacksonville, FL. I am twice retired; first from
25
years of obstetrical nursing and then from running my own
rehabilitation
company. Husband, Vernon, is a gynecologist and we have a son who is
a
newspaper editor in Dallas. We currently have one 17 year old horse
that
makes life unbearable for any equine competition, a 14 year old Amazon
parrot
that thinks she runs the world and (just arrived uninvited) a 4-6
month old,
25-30 pound mutt that is elevating small object destruction into a
fine art.

Interest in Bonsai began: About 30 years ago, and while I
had a
"regular job" I managed to collect and train a few trees that were
showing
real promise. Self-employment, frequent travel and the theft of my
best
trees dampened my enthusiasm for a number of years. Since our move
to the
"boonies" I have rekindled the interest and have begun to acquire some
nice
material (Brent, your big box of spring additions made it through
their first
summer in Florida remarkably well with minimal losses, and those were
my
fault). I am still a long way from having anything beyond the
potentsai
stage in my second attempt at this fascinating art.

Material and Styling Preferences: I prefer the southeast
natives.
Since I am allergic to junipers and most true cedars don't do very
well
here; deciduous becomes pretty much my default favorite. As to
styling, I
prefer the more natural styles and have not as yet learned to
appreciate the
"stump with twigs" way of bonsai. I currently have no single
favorite tree.
Things are still evolving too rapidly for that.

Other interests I have too many! I rotate between
watercolor,
sculpting portrait and character dolls using polymer clay,
genealogical
research trips and faceting gemstones. Remember what they say about
"Jack of
all trades"? This retirement thing can be exhausting!

Gail

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:35:36
-0700
From: "Klingenberg, Rolf" <ro...@NTERNET.COM>
Subject: Kumquat
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi guys (and gals),

Bought a canned grafted Sweet Kumquat yesterday. One year old and
about 4
feet high loaded with 'quats'. About a 4" trunk.

Questions:
Suitability for bonsai?
Viability of seeds? Best time?
When trunk chopped, how far above the graft? Best time for chop?
Soil mix?
Anything else to watch out for?

Thanks in advance.

Rolf

S/E Louisiana Zone 8/9

Ro...@nternet.com

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:37:34
-0700
From: "Klingenberg, Rolf" <ro...@NTERNET.COM>
Subject: Re: "Understanding the original intent"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

So it is okay to say, "Hey, check out those nebari's?" :)

Rolf

>Hi:
>Has anyone considered that 'nebari' may mean nice ? solid? well-balanced?
>attractive? enviable? worthy of imitating? etc. roots. The Japanese word
>'nebari," in their language...being culturally polite...may be used when
>something is being praised, but not used when it is defficient.

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:47:49
-0700
From: Herb Gustafson <h...@EFN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Adieu for now
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

>
> Oh yes - I'd like to appoint Herb Gustafson as pome person Laureate in my
> absence

UUuuuummmm.....................No

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:40:14
-0400
From: DaleCochoy <DaleC...@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject: Re: "Understanding the original intent"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

.Keith said:
When I see a tree with
> strong roots showing above the soil line I might say, if anyone was
> interested, nice root structure; or, depending upon whom I really want to
> impress, Fantastic nebari.

IMPRESS, I think herein lies the whole story of English speaking
persons
using Japanese words/terms that we don't REALLY know the meaning of !
A
lot of people just LIVE FOR the chance to hear themselves talk just a
little more when they get the response, "Whats that?"
Dale Cochoy

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:58:34
-0700
From: Herb Gustafson <h...@EFN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Trees leaning towards the viewer
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

>
> 99.% of my bonsai viewing (and enjoyment) takes place in my backyard. Since
> I'm just over 6ft. tall, then I would have to construct benches some 5ft.
> tall to get the full effect of the design. Heh - I'm into bonsai not
> backyard construction!
>
> So why is it that I'm styling my bonsai such that it's best view is
> optimized for a dwarf?

I do a compromise. Isn't that the way it seems to work best ?
My benches are 42 inches high. No stands outdoors of course. Most of
my trees are acceptable at that height. BTW, I do not believe the apex
should ever be in front of the nebari when viewed from the side.

Herb.

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:16:05
-0700
From: Lynn boyd <bo...@PEAK.ORG>
Subject: Re: IBC member profile
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, Ernie Kuo wrote:
> My profile is much less impressive than Herb Gustafson's and more boring. If
> Lynn reads it she will say "Get a life, Ernie." I am not going to waste band-width
> by typing it all out here. For those who have nothing better to do you can find
> my biography and a picture of my wife and I at:
--------------------
Ernie, :))
Oh, dear, you'd better know that was sarcasm!
Actually I am interested in people first and foremost than
anything, and not likely to get bored.
I think it unlikely you can bore anyone - make them envious,
YES!
Lynn

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 20:33:36
-0400
From: Jim Lewis <jkl...@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Use of Japanese terminology (fwd)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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----------
> From: James Kissinger <james_k...@EEE.ORG>
> paul royko wrote:
> >
> >
> > Who volunteers to fly to Japan and take a census of which of the above
meanings of 'nebari' is correct, if any?
> >
> > Paul
>
>
> I will volunteer to fly to Japan and find the true meaning of nebari.
> Please have the secretary to the IBC make out a check to cover the
> airline costs for me.
>
>

Last I looked, it was Paul. I'm sure the check'll be in the mail. ;)
However, the airline costs will be the least of your worries. You
probably
could fly round trip twice for what a couple of nights with meals will
cost
you in Tokyo.
---------
Jim Lewis (jkl...@ix.netcom.com) - Tallahassee, FL
The last word in ignorance is the man who says of an animal or
plant, 'What good is it?' -- Aldo Leopold

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 20:44:08
-0400
From: Bill Sikes <bj...@SURFSOUTH.COM>
Subject: Re: Use of Japanese terminology
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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paul royko wrote:

> >Obviously, everyone has a different vision of what 'nebari' means.
> This
> does not make for good communication. So, allow me chime in with my
> suggestion. From now on, when we mean visible surface roots, we refer
> to
> them as Cochoy. However, the proper response to, "Great Cochoy!" is
> NOT
> "Gesundheit!"

Seconded!

--
Bill Sikes (bj...@surfsouth.com)
Member, South Georgia Bonsai Club, USA USDA Zone 8
The Bonsai Shop & Nursery "Extraordinary by Nature"

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:40:55
-0700
From: James Kissinger <james_k...@OMAIL.EEE.ORG>
Subject: Re: Member !
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Jaco Krüger wrote:
>
> Julie E. Bruton-Gibney wrote:
>
> > Hey I'm only 27, even younger ;-)
> >
> > The young Julie
> > Wiltshire, UK
>
> Same here...
>
> Like a quote I read in a bonsai book: "It's not the age of the tree that
> counts, but how mature it looks to the viewer"
> (Can't remember in what book it was)
>
> Jaco
> --
Jaco,
Are you saying it doesn't matter what her age is just as long as she
looks old? I am glad you didn't ask about her great nebari's either. I
hesitate to suggest you might be spending too much time with your
trees;)

Sincerely,

--
Jim Kissinger
San Bernardino, Ca.
34:07:17N 117:18:08W
james_k...@eee.org
("<
/ )
L

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 20:56:45
-0400
From: Bill Sikes <bj...@SURFSOUTH.COM>
Subject: Re: Adieu for now
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Tom Pillichody wrote:

> Bonsai Cobbers:
>
> I am dropping off the List for a while, and will also be unreachable
> by
> e-mail:
>
> - vacation
> - changing internet provider, thus quitting to rejoin with a new
> e-mail
> address. (I hope none of you will black-ball me)
>
> I've enjoyed it and I will return!
>
> Oh yes - I'd like to appoint Herb Gustafson as pome person Laureate
> in my
> absence
>
> - Tom, in West Virginia, Zone 6
> Where Tiny Oaks from Giant Acorns Grow
>

Tom-

Hurry Back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

--
Bill Sikes (bj...@surfsouth.com)
Member, South Georgia Bonsai Club, USA USDA Zone 8
The Bonsai Shop & Nursery "Extraordinary by Nature"

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:00:07
GMT
From: Brian Smith <brian...@DCE.NL>
Subject: NBV Bonsai Show - photgraphs

I went to the Dutch Bonsai Associations (Nederlandse Bonsai
Vereniging)
annual show on sunday. It was an excellent display of the art of
bonsai.

I have put a photo-report on my Bonsai HP.

You are welcome to take a look, and add (clean) comments to my
guestbook.

Brian

http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/5842/Bons08.htm

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:36:08
-0400
From: Michael Persiano <IAS...@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Sabamiki

In a message dated 97-09-17 18:27:28 EDT, you write:

<< On Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:34:09 -0400, Tom Nolan wrote:
>>
>> >A recent post by Michael Persiano mentioned Sabamiki. From the
>> context of
>> >the post it is related to Shari and Jin. I can't find any
reference
>> to it
>> >in any of my books. What is it? >>

Tom:

Sabamiki translates roughly to "mackerel" and "trunk" or fish
bones/skeleton.
In this sense, it relates to the jinned branches and the artistically
connected, barkless portion of the trunk. Sabamiki also refers to a
narrowly
hollowed or split trunk which might be used as a technique to disguise
an
assemblage of scars. Wuromiki refers to a broadly opened or hollowed
trunk.

Japanese terminology for artistic concepts is quite interesting and
establishes our connection with the native origins of this art. Of
course,
if we truly wish to explore bonsai's earliest origins, we should
learn a few
of the Chinese equivalents. Ernie?
);-)

Cordially,

Michael Persiano
http://members.aol.com/IASNOB/index.html
http://www.stonelantern.com/bt/btinsights.html

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:41:07
-0400
From: Phil Stephens <ppa...@EROLS.COM>
Subject: Re: Republicans vs. Meat
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Uh-oh!
>>This kind of humor(?) hardly merits a reply, but you should know that some
>>of us out here are Republicans! There I've said it and I'm
>>glad.-Charlotte Cranberg

Well, that explains the lack of a sense of humor. ;-{)

I'm teasing, Charlotte. Again. I've been gone for a long while, but
eventually it hopefully gets through that I've _never_ deliberately
tried
to actually offend someone (unless, of course, I'm provoked into it
;-{) ).
I'm seriously (really!) sorry if I've offended you. And a few people,
beloved mutants, actually seem to _like_ some of my stuff....or at
least
realize that I truly do mean well. And beyond that, I also get around
to
bonsai stuff occasionally (again, if provoked into it ;-{) ) and might
have
a rare redeeming moment there, given a chance.

I do dearly love that sig file, and I resurrect it occasionally. And
it
does seem to generate a lot of quetions, and a lot of banter.....

Next time, instead of indulging in clever(?) sniping, please maybe try
teasing back. I can take it AND dish it out. Or, if there's no room
for
middle ground here, hey, there are easily 5 or 6 words of the Japanese
language that haven't been completely dissected on here yet. ;-{)

Already sporting a new non-partisan sig anyway,
Phil
Phil Stephens
Havre de Grace, Maryland USA
USDA Zone 6/7
"I want my fellow man to benefit from my knowledge and experience-
because the sweetest words on this Earth are: 'I _told_ you so....'"

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:40:26
-0400
From: Herr Family <her...@NBN.NET>
Subject: Share Some More?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hello All,

While everyone is sharing info and background on themselves I thought
this
would be a good time to ask people to share pics of there trees.
Unless I
receive some pics I won't be able to update the Picture Gallery
anymore!! I
for one have learned alot from the gallery and would like to see it
continue, so please send your pics now!!!! They can be sent to me at
her...@nbn.net .

Bill H.
her...@nbn.net

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 20:58:54
-0500
From: Alan Walker <awbo...@IAMERICA.NET>
Subject: Re: "Understanding the original intent"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Klingenberg, Rolf wrote: So it is okay to say, "Hey, check out those
nebari's?" :)
Has anyone considered that 'nebari' may mean nice ? solid?
well-balanced? attractive? enviable? worthy of imitating? etc. roots.
The Japanese word 'nebari," in their language...being culturally
polite...may be used when something is being praised, but not used
when
it is defficient.
RE: Nebari
Actually, my Japanese-English dictionaries which have the word nebari
translate it as meaning "sticky" or "viscous". How's that for a
detour?
They also, of course, show that ne means root. I have yet to find
bari.
I think the main point is true for most communication, that is, to be
understood. I guess it depends on to whom you communication is
directed
as to what jargon or terminology will clarify or obfuscate. (How's
that
for a fifty cent word?) This banter sounds like it could go on for a
couple more years, but I'm signing off on it for now.
Alan Walker, Lake Charles, LA, USA awbo...@iamerica.net

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:04:35
-0400
From: Michael Persiano <IAS...@AOL.COM>
Subject: Naka's Bonsai Techniques II (Was : Re: Sabamiki)

In a message dated 97-09-17 19:42:24 EDT, you write:

<< Naka describes "saba-miki" as the combination of a trunk debarked
on its
front side
along with "jin" branches. "Saba" (meaning mackerel) and "miki"
(meaning
trunk) are combined because the resulting debarked area resembles the
skeleton left by a fish's bones. >>

Chris:

All of this talk about saba is making me dream of Friday night sushi!
);-)

I am sure that you will agree that John Naka's Bonsai Techniques ll
should be
on the REQUIRED reading list for all serious practitioners. It is one
of the
few books that truly offers the artist an extremely creative and
inspirational perspective on the art.

Cordially,

Michael Persiano
http://members.aol.com/IASNOB/index.html
http://www.stonelantern.com/bt/btinsights.html

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:03:34
-0700
From: Reiner Goebel <rgo...@TOR.HOOKUP.NET>
Subject: Re: Sabamiki
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Chris Cochrane wrote:
>
> Ernie writes re' sabamiki,
> > You will find it in John Naka's Bonsai Techniques II, Page 67.
>
> Naka describes "saba-miki" as the combination of a trunk debarked on its
> front side
> along with "jin" branches. "Saba" (meaning mackerel) and "miki" (meaning
> trunk) are combined because the resulting debarked area resembles the
> skeleton left by a fish's bones.
>
> Yes, Dale/Reiner, we could call it "fish bones" or the more literal
> "debarked, front-side trunk with some side branches debarked (optionally:
> that may remind the viewer of a mackerel skeleton)."

Well, if the Japanese can call it fish-bones and know what is meant, I
dont' see why we can't. For even when we call it saba-miki, we're
really
calling it fish-bones. It's quite possible that Japanese not into
bonsai
are clueless when faced with the expression 'saba-miki', just like we
would be if someone referred to a mackerel-trunk (that, incidentally,
opens the door to 'holy-mackerel-trunk' for a particularly
well-crafted
one or 'stinking-mackerel-trunk' for one of mine ;-) )

Reiner Goebel
Toronto, Canada
rgo...@tor.hookup.net

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 22:14:33
-0400
From: Phil Stephens <ppa...@EROLS.COM>
Subject: Re: Kumquat
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi Rolf! I have a Meiwa Kumquat I bought in Florida early this
year....

>Bought a canned grafted Sweet Kumquat yesterday. One year old and about 4
>feet high loaded with 'quats'. About a 4" trunk.

Mine also had a lot of fruit on it when I bought it, which was
delicious
and provided tons of seeds. It's putting out a pretty good load of
fruit
this year too, considering its new damYankeeland living quarters
(Uh-oh...you don't suppose there are any damYankees on this list
too???
;-{) ), and a bit of a freeze it got one night in Ohio while moving
out
here last spring.
>
>Questions:
>Suitability for bonsai?
Probably not, but worth an experiment. The weird growth habit of most
commercial citrus species is proving hard to cope with. Kumquats do at
least have smaller leaves than lemons, oranges, tangerines, etc. And
the
worst that can happen, if you keep the tree healthy, is that you have
a
lovely, fragrant houseplant that produces tasty fruit.

>Viability of seeds? Best time?
Oh, my God. Viability beyond your wildest dreams. All your friends
will
eventually own kumquats too.....especially considering that each fruit
produces about an ounce of seeds per 3 grams of edible stuff. (I might
be
stretching these proportions a bit... ;-{) ) Plant them _IMMEDIATELY_
upon
extracting from the fresh fruit (which also pretty much defines a
"best
time")...and stand back!

>When trunk chopped, how far above the graft? Best time for chop?
Bonsai info on citrus is mostly kinda hard to come by....so I don't
really
know the answer here. I've been treating them largely like I would a
ficus,
with good results so far. All cutting I've done during the growing
seasons
seems to have been tolerated well. I don't know about yours, but the
graft
on mine is large and ugly and was definitely not performed with bonsai
in
mind.

>Soil mix?
So far don't seem extremely particular. Sandy, VERY-well-draining
soils
probably the best; I've been feeding them with Miracid, which they
seem to
like.

>Anything else to watch out for?
They don't like freezing even a little bit, which probably isn't much
of a
concern down your way. Kinda surprised mine came back....was
completely
defoliated in the freeze, and lost some branch tips. But it did come
back
very nicely! Also, the flowers are small and lack the cloying
fragrance of,
say, orange blossoms. But they do smell nice... unfortunately, the
bugs
love them so much that it was hard to get close enough to tell.
Pollenation, on the other hand, was NOT a problem. ;-{) Otherwise,
they
seem to be pretty tough, undemanding, and pleasant-looking trees. As
yours
grows out a while you'll see what I mean by a "weird" growth habit;
I'm
having a hard time describing it. Perhaps some of our Floridians,
Texans,
or Californians can help...

>Thanks in advance.
My pleasure, in retrospect. ;-{)

Phil

Phil Stephens
Havre de Grace, Maryland USA
USDA Zone 6/7
"I want my fellow man to benefit from my knowledge and experience-
because the sweetest words on this Earth are: 'I _told_ you so....'"

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:19:35
-0500
From: Alan Walker <awbo...@IAMERICA.NET>
Subject: Re: Trees leaning towards the viewer
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Andy Miksys wrote:
99.% of my bonsai viewing (and enjoyment) takes place in my backyard.
Since I'm just over 6ft. tall, then I would have to construct benches
some 5ft. tall to get the full effect of the design. Heh - I'm into
bonsai not backyard construction!
So why is it that I'm styling my bonsai such that it's best view is
optimized for a dwarf?
And why is it that I'm reluctant to do otherwise? Fire away; Andy
Miksys
Just a tip on how to get higher display tables in an exhibit. Most
exhibits I have seen use the common 6-8 foot folding tables as a
platform for the bonsai. These are standardized at 30" above the
ground. Bill Newman came up with an ingenious solution to fix the
relatively low viewing perspective. We cut 1.5-2" PVC pipe into
12-15"
lengths and slide one section under each leg of the table, effectively
raising it 8-12 inches. This helps to present the bonsai at a more
desirable height and has a nice security benefit in that it makes it
more difficult for octopus (taco?) children to get their curious
fingers
on the trees or companion plants or stands. It's also easier to spot
adults who are of a similarly juvenile inclination to need to touch
everything which interests them.
By the way, the exhibits I have seen in Japan and China also tend to
have their bonsai displayed at about 30". I saw a lot of very
vertically impaired Japanese, but only toddlers were that short!
Alan Walker, Lake Charles, LA, USA awbo...@iamerica.net

********* NEW MESSAGE ********** Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 23:19:19
-0400
From: "Billy M. Rhodes" <GOPHE...@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Juniper cuttings

In a message dated 9/17/97 3:15:25 PM, you wrote:

<<The others seem to have formed pale to reddish lumps at the base,
but
no roots. What are these growths? Could they be the starts of roots
which couldn't penetrate well into the coarse bonsai soil (just
guessing here)?>>

I would call them a callus, which is a prelude to rooting. If the
tops are
still alive I would repot them and wait. Juniper can sometimes be
slow to
root.

Billy

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