Elohim creates evil according to Isaiah.
guardian Snow
honestly that our Father in heaven created evil and this is confusing
to me.
Isa 45:5 ‘I am יהוה, and there is none else – there is no Elohim
besides Me. I gird you, though you have not known Me,
Isa 45:6 so that they know from the rising of the sun to its setting
that there is none but Me. I am יהוה, and there is none else,
Isa 45:7 forming light and creating darkness, making peace and
creating evil. I, יהוה, do all these.’
Isa 45:8 “Rain down, O heavens, from above, and let clouds pour down
righteousness. Let the earth open, let them bring forth deliverance,
and let righteousness spring up together. I, יהוה, have created it.
Isa 45:9 “Woe to him who strives with his Maker! (a potsherd with the
potsherds of the earth). Does clay say to him who forms it, ‘What are
you making?’ Or your handiwork say, ‘He has no hands’?
But then we also read in the New Testament that he wills the stumbling
block:
Mat 18:7 “Woe to the world because of stumbling-blocks! For it is
necessary that stumbling-blocks come, but woe to that man by whom the
stumbling-block comes!
Luk 17:1 And He said to the taught ones, “It is inevitable that
stumbling-blocks should come, but woe to him through whom they come!
Rev 2:14 “But I hold a few matters against you, because you have there
those who adhere to the teaching of Bilʽam, who taught Balaq to put a
stumbling-block before the children of Yisra’ĕl, to eat food offered
to idols, and to commit whoring.
We find that these "stumbling blocks" are purposed so that we must
seek him out because he has hidden his face from us because of our
wickedness.
Regards,
Snow
Be the chief but never the lord.
Lao Tzu
Shapescare
> Something that I had not considered. I would never have thought
> honestly that our Father in heaven created evil and this is confusing
> to me.
Have you ever wondered who created Satan?
Zadok
"Shapescare" <> wrote in message ...
The argument can be made that God and Satan are one and the same.
In the bible, there is a story about numbering. 2 Samuel 24, and 1
Chronicles 21. If one reads both the stories, it is obvious that they are
telling the same story. BUT!!
In 2 Samuel 24: 1 - God moves David.
In 1 Chronicles 21: 1 - Satan provokes David.
In one story, God moves David. In the second version of the same story, it
is Satan,
If God and Satan are one and the same, it certainly would explain, why over
the course of biblical history, God likes to kill humans for being evil, but
refuses to kill Satan for being evil.
You have two choices, Either God lacks the power to kill Satan, or if he
does kill Satan, it would be suicide!!
Smile.
Nicodemus
re:smile
There is some other consideration, satan is some biblical phenomena the
Night Sky has very little information about, re matters of spirit
salvation that belongs to you and me that depends if you have a soul.
guardian Snow
> You have two choices, Either God lacks the power to kill Satan, or if he
> does kill Satan, it would be suicide!!
>
> Smile.
That actually is an interesting idea but then wouldn't explain why
Elohim would seek to lead his people out of the darkness and into the
light.
No, clearly Satan has attempted to overthrow. Isaiah talks about Satan
as not knowing shachar and it's translated many different ways such as
"Dawn" in Lucifer, Son of Dawn.
Here is where you'll find it...
Isa 47:10 “And you have trusted in your evil, you have said, ‘No one
sees me.’ Your wisdom and your knowledge have led you astray. And you
have said in your heart, ‘I am, and there is none but me.’
Isa 47:11 “But evil shall come upon you, you not knowing the Dawn, and
trouble fall upon you, you being unable to put it off, and ruin come
upon you suddenly, which you know not.
None of the translations say this but you have to look into the
original Hebrew using the concordance to find it.
Isa 8:20 -
In opposition to such a falling away to wretched superstition, the
watchword of the prophet and his supporters is this. “To the teaching
of God (torah, Gotteslehre), and to the testimony! If they do not
accord with this word, they are a people for whom no morning dawns.”
Isa 14:12 -
“How art thou fallen from the sky, thou star of light, sun of the
dawn, hurled down to the earth, thou that didst throw down nations
from above?” הֵילֵל is here the morning star (from hâlal, to shine,
resolved from hillel, after the form מֵאֵן, Jer_13:10, סֵעֵף,
Psa_119:113, or rather attaching itself as a third class to the forms
הֵיכָל, עֵירֹם: compare the Arabic sairaf, exchanger; saikal, sword-
cleaner). It derives its name in other ancient languages also from its
striking brilliancy, and is here called ben-shachar (sun of the dawn),
just as in the classical mythology it is called son of Eos, from the
fact that it rises before the sun, and swims in the morning light as
if that were the source of its birth.
(Note: It is singular, however, that among the Semitic nations the
morning star is not personified as a male (Heōsphoros or
Phōsphoros), but as a female (Astarte, see at Isa_17:8), and that it
is called Nâghâh, Ashtoreth, Zuhara, but never by a name derived
from hâlal; whilst the moon is regarded as a male deity (Sin), and in
Arabic hilâl signifies the new moon, which might be called ben-
shacar (son of the dawn), from the fact that, from the time when it
passes out of the invisibility of its first phase, it is seen at
sunrise, and is as it were born out of the dawn.)
Lucifer, as a name given to the devil, was derived from this passage,
which the fathers (and lately Stier) interpreted, without any warrant
whatever, as relating to the apostasy and punishment of the angelic
leaders.
Isa_14:19, “whilst thou,” or “whereas thou.” The har hammōēd (mount
of assembly) cannot be Zion, as is assumed by Schegg and others, who
are led astray by the parallel in Psa_48:3, which has been entirely
misunderstood, and has no bearing upon this passage at all. Zion was
neither a northern point of the earth, nor was it situated on the
north of Jerusalem.
The prophet makes the king of Babylon speak according to the general
notion of his people, who had not the seat of the Deity in the midst
of them, as the Israelites had, but who placed it on the summit of the
northern mountains, which were lost in the clouds, just as the Hindus
place it on the fabulous mountains of Kailâsa, which lie towards the
north beyond the Himalayas (Lassen, i. 34ff.). יַרְכָתַיִם (with an
aspirated כ in a loosely closed syllable) are the two sides into which
a thing parts, the two legs of an angle, and then the apex at which
the legs separate. And so here, צָפוֹן יַרְכְּתֵי (with an unaspirated
Caph in a triply closed syllable) is the uttermost extremity of the
north, from which the northern mountains stretch fork-like into the
land, and yarcethe-bor the interior of the pit into which its two
walls slope, and from which it unfolds or widens. All the foolhardy
purposes of the Chaldean are finally comprehended in this, “I will
make myself like the Most High;” just as the Assyrians, according to
Ctesias, and the Persians, according to the Persae of Aeschylus,
really called their king God, and the Sassanidae call themselves bag,
Theos, upon coins and inscriptions ('eddammeh is hithpael, equivalent
to 'ethdammeh, which the usual assimilation of the preformative Tav:
Ges. §34, 2, b). By the אַךְ in Psa_48:14, the high-flying pride of
the Chaldean is contrasted with his punishment, which hurls him down
into the lowest depths. אַךְ, which was originally affirmative, and
then restrictive (as rak was originally restrictive and then
affirmative), passes over here into an adversative, just as in
Psa_49:16; Job_13:15 (a change seen still more frequently in אָכֵן);
nevertheless thou wilt be hurled down; nothing but that will occur,
and not what you propose. The prophetic tūrad is language that
neither befits the inhabitants of Hades, who greet his advent, nor the
Israel singing the mashal; but the words of Israel have imperceptibly
passed into words of the prophet, who still sees in the distance, and
as something future.
guardian Snow
> There is some other consideration, satan is some biblical phenomena the
> Night Sky has very little information about, re matters of spirit
> salvation that belongs to you and me that depends if you have a soul.
See, you hit on the same idea. Night and Day. O Morning Star, Son of
the Dawn...
Leading the children into the light from darkness.
If Lucifer fell then it was into darkness, from the light. While he
is "son of the dawn" he's now dark and light no longer dwells in him.
I don't subscribe to Lucifer being Satan, btw.
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of
God shouted for joy?
He in whom יהוה came to His nation, and proclaimed to it, in the midst
of its self-induced misery, the way and work of salvation, is He who
speaks in:
Isa_50:4 : “The Master יהוה hath given me a disciple's tongue, that I
may know how to set up the wearied with words: He wakeneth every
morning; wakeneth mine ear to attend in disciple's manner.”
The morning stars are men that seek after יהוה who has hidden his face
and his name from the vast majority of men.
Regards,
Snow
He who controls others may be powerful, but he who has mastered
himself is mightier still.
Lao Tzu
Zadok
"guardian Snow" <> wrote in message ...
On Nov 22, 11:24 am, "Zadok" <nob...@accesswave.ca> wrote:
> You have two choices, Either God lacks the power to kill Satan, or if he
> does kill Satan, it would be suicide!!
>
> Smile.
>That actually is an interesting idea but then wouldn't explain why
>Elohim would seek to lead his people out of the darkness and into >the
light.
>No, clearly Satan has attempted to overthrow. Isaiah talks about >Satan as
not knowing shachar and it's translated many different >ways such as "Dawn"
in Lucifer, Son of Dawn.
But the post was to determine who created evil!!
And the bible tells you that God created evil.
A very simple exercise!! One creator of everything, so God as the only
creator, had to create evil.
If you take that one step further, and accept that the all knowing creator,
with the gift of prophecy, is the only creator, then what you end up with is
a creator that made Satan, already knowing that he would revolt.
You then are left with a creator, that made Adam, already knowing that he
would eat the apple.
Later, he drowns everyone with a flood, but saves Noah and his family,
already knowing that his scheme would fail.
Now if you accept that the old devil is the cause of evil, and God created
him, then why doesn't God just kill Satan off.
Again, I repeat. God prefers to kill humans. Read the story I mentioned in 2
Samuel and 1 Chronicles. The common factor is that 70,000 people had to die.
And God so loved the World??
Smile.
guardian Snow
> And God so loved the World??
Very much. Considering Master יהוה created us in his image actually
explains a log. If you are to live and learn in this life so that
when you attain your new body in heaven..
Imagine a thousand people with God like power to create with words all
battling it out for supremecy. At some point in the process, you had
to learn to make mistakes in a weaker human vessel so that you
wouldn't make them when you come into true light. You entire human
existence is set up so that you learn from your mistakes now and life
is your classroom.
Learn from your mistakes now and you get life, don't learn and.. maybe
you get a new chance on the new earth. I don't believe in eternal
hell, it's not supported in scripture.
To that end, I say Lucifer and Satan.. think training simulator.
Regards,
Snow
Knowing others is intelligence; knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength; mastering yourself is true power. Life
and death are one thread, the same line viewed from different sides.
Lao Tzu
Zadok
"guardian Snow" <> wrote in message ...
> And God so loved the World??
>Very much. Considering Master ???? created us in his image >actually
explains a log. If you are to live and learn in this life so >that when you
attain your new body in heaven..
>Imagine a thousand people with God like power to create with >words all
battling it out for supremecy. At some point in the >process, you had to
learn to make mistakes in a weaker human >vessel so that you wouldn't make
them when you come into true >light. You entire human existence is set up
so that you learn from >your mistakes now and life is your classroom.
What an interesting concept. We are all playthings in God's fish tank. The
thing you tend to forget, is that Goddie, already knows how it all turns
out.
Must be a bummer, to know it will fail once again.
But hey, just like human history, Goddie gets his death and destruction.
Kind of makes Goddie a vain freak, if he needs your worship to keep him
going!!
Smile.
guardian Snow
> But hey, just like human history, Goddie gets his death and destruction.
>
> Kind of makes Goddie a vain freak, if he needs your worship to keep him
> going!!
I take it you never played a video game. Ever play a game of Sim City
and nothing but hovels appear? You don't want hovels when your
playing do you? You want big rich towers of strength. What do you do
when things don't go your way in the city? Ever unleash one of those
tornadoes to wipe 'em out? Send in the aliens to zap those garbage
piles?
The same idea can apply to just about any video game and yes, Elohim
has the cheat codes because he wrote the program. My friend, welcome
to the Matrix, hope your ready when you unplug and find out he's been
watching you this whole time hoping you'd realize the truth and learn
from it.
Nice talking to you, keep smiling, it's a good temperament to have.
You'll smile even more when you realize you have been given a level
up, extra life by and the instruction guide. You just don't know how
to play..
Hos 4:6 "My people have perished for lack of knowledge. Because you
have rejected knowledge, I reject you from being priest for Me. Since
you have forgotten the Torah of your Elohim, I also forget your
children.
You can receive that extra life just for the asking.. The credits
already in your account.
Joh 3:16 "For Elohim so loved the world that He gave His only brought-
forth Son, so that everyone who believes in Him should not perish but
possess everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 "For Elohim did not send His Son into the world to judge the
world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
If you need any help after that, here's a cheat code for you,
Jas 1:5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of Elohim, who gives
to all generously and without reproach, and it shall be given to him.
Good luck, hope to see you make the grand finally.
Regards,
Snow
A little philosophy inclineth man's mind to atheism, but depth in
philosophy bringeth men's minds about to religion. For also knowledge
itself is power.
Francis Bacon
guardian Snow
I am curious as to why you chose a name like Nicodemus.
Joh 3:4 Naḵdimon said to Him, “How is a man able to be born when he
is old? Is he able to enter into his mother’s womb a second time and
be born?”
Joh 3:5 יהושע answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is
born of water and the Spirit, he is unable to enter into the reign of
Elohim.
Joh 3:6 “That which has been born of the flesh is flesh, and that
which has been born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 “Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You have to be born from
above.’
Joh 3:8 “The Spirit1 breathes where it wishes, and you hear the sound
of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it goes. So is
everyone who has been born of the Spirit.” Footnote: 1Or wind.
Barry OGrady
>>"guardian Snow" <> wrote in message ...
>On Nov 22, 12:48 pm, "Zadok" <nob...@accesswave.ca> wrote:
>
>> And God so loved the World??
>
>>>Very much. Considering Master ???? created us in his image
>>>actually explains a log. If you are to live and learn in this life so
>>>that when you attain your new body in heaven..
>
>>>Imagine a thousand people with God like power to create with
>>>words all battling it out for supremecy. At some point in the
>>>process, you had to learn to make mistakes in a weaker human
>>>vessel so that you wouldn't make them when you come into true
>>>light. You entire human existence is set up so that you learn from
>>>your mistakes now and life is your classroom.
It has been said that the day Microsoft makes a product that doesn't
suck will be the day they make a vacuum cleaner.
I've fixed your quoting as best I can but you really should get a
newsreader to replace Outlook express.
>What an interesting concept. We are all playthings in God's fish tank. The
>thing you tend to forget, is that Goddie, already knows how it all turns
>out.
Not only that but we never get to use what we learn.
>Must be a bummer, to know it will fail once again.
It's time for regime change in heaven.
>But hey, just like human history, Goddie gets his death and destruction.
>
>Kind of makes Goddie a vain freak, if he needs your worship to keep him
>going!!
We were made in God's image but we have advanced.
>Smile.
Barry
=====
Home page
http://members.iinet.net.au/~barry.og
I do not represent atheists or atheism
guardian Snow
> On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 02:39:59 GMT, "Zadok" <nob...@accesswave.ca> wrote:
> >>"guardian Snow" <> wrote in message ...
> >On Nov 22, 12:48 pm, "Zadok" <nob...@accesswave.ca> wrote:
>
> >> And God so loved the World??
>
> >>>Very much. Considering Master ???? created us in his image
> >>>actually explains a log. If you are to live and learn in this life so
> >>>that when you attain your new body in heaven..
>
> >>>Imagine a thousand people with God like power to create with
> >>>words all battling it out for supremecy. At some point in the
> >>>process, you had to learn to make mistakes in a weaker human
> >>>vessel so that you wouldn't make them when you come into true
> >>>light. You entire human existence is set up so that you learn from
> >>>your mistakes now and life is your classroom.
>
> It has been said that the day Microsoft makes a product that doesn't
> suck will be the day they make a vacuum cleaner.
> I've fixed your quoting as best I can but you really should get a
> newsreader to replace Outlook express.
>
> >What an interesting concept. We are all playthings in God's fish tank. The
> >thing you tend to forget, is that Goddie, already knows how it all turns
> >out.
>
> Not only that but we never get to use what we learn.
See, thats not true or else you wouldn't make that statement.
You can do great things but you never apply yourself or you never
really learned or you would be using it already.
> >Must be a bummer, to know it will fail once again.
>
> It's time for regime change in heaven.
Now he's just laughing at you. You can't even find him or heaven, how
are you going to overthrow your creator?
Psa 37:13 The Lord shall laugh at him: for he seeth that his day is
coming.
> >But hey, just like human history, Goddie gets his death and destruction.
>
> >Kind of makes Goddie a vain freak, if he needs your worship to keep him
> >going!!
>
> We were made in God's image but we have advanced.
You don't really believe that now and if you do. Copy is never better
then the original.
Regards,
Snow
Analysis brings no curative powers in its train; it merely makes us
conscious of the existence of an evil, which, oddly enough, is
consciousness. The real leader has no need to lead - he is content to
point the way.
Henry Miller
For Real
<snowp...@eck.net.au> wrote:
>Something that I had not considered. I would never have thought
>honestly that our Father in heaven created evil and this is confusing
>to me.
>
>Isa 45:5 ‘I am ????, and there is none else – there is no Elohim
>besides Me. I gird you, though you have not known Me,
>Isa 45:6 so that they know from the rising of the sun to its setting
>that there is none but Me. I am ????, and there is none else,
>Isa 45:7 forming light and creating darkness, making peace and
>creating evil. I, ????, do all these.’
>Isa 45:8 “Rain down, O heavens, from above, and let clouds pour down
>righteousness. Let the earth open, let them bring forth deliverance,
>and let righteousness spring up together. I, ????, have created it.
>Isa 45:9 “Woe to him who strives with his Maker! (a potsherd with the
>potsherds of the earth). Does clay say to him who forms it, ‘What are
>you making?’ Or your handiwork say, ‘He has no hands’?
>
>But then we also read in the New Testament that he wills the stumbling
>block:
>
>Mat 18:7 “Woe to the world because of stumbling-blocks! For it is
>necessary that stumbling-blocks come, but woe to that man by whom the
>stumbling-block comes!
>
>Luk 17:1 And He said to the taught ones, “It is inevitable that
>stumbling-blocks should come, but woe to him through whom they come!
>
>Rev 2:14 “But I hold a few matters against you, because you have there
>those who adhere to the teaching of Bil?am, who taught Balaq to put a
>stumbling-block before the children of Yisra’?l, to eat food offered
>to idols, and to commit whoring.
>
>We find that these "stumbling blocks" are purposed so that we must
>seek him out because he has hidden his face from us because of our
>wickedness.
>
>Regards,
>Snow
>
>Be the chief but never the lord.
>Lao Tzu
God creates evil for evil, not evil for good. Hell is evil not good.
God created Lucifer in the divine nature. Lucifer, out of his own free
will, chose to be evil. He became arrogant, vain and defiant. God had
no choice but to throw him out of heaven along with the other angels
that worshipped him. God did not intend Adam and Eve to turn to evil
but, out of their own free will, they chose it. Now, we live outside
of Eden where sin and evil abounds because we're on the Devil's
territory.
Shapescare
> On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 14:38:58 -0800 (PST), guardian Snow
>
>
>
>
>
> <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
> >Something that I had not considered. I would never have thought
> >honestly that our Father in heaven created evil and this is confusing
> >to me.
>
Why did God create inferior products?
Was it because he created them in his own image?
For Real
In the beginning, God created all things in the divine nature.
Lucifer, Adam and Eve chose to sin against God. Therefore, we live
under a fallen condition but not as God originally created and meant
for us to exist.
guardian Snow
> >Why did God create inferior products?
> >Was it because he created them in his own image?
>
> In the beginning, God created all things in the divine nature.
> Lucifer, Adam and Eve chose to sin against God. Therefore, we live
> under a fallen condition but not as God originally created and meant
> for us to exist.
Two issue here. Hell as most people understand it, doesn't exist.
Lucifer is not Satan and is a man.
Messengers or "angels" are not born but were created and they wouldn't
have fleshly identification.
For Real
<snowp...@eck.net.au> wrote:
>On Nov 26, 10:26 am, For Real <nospam-webex...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> >Why did God create inferior products?
>> >Was it because he created them in his own image?
>>
>> In the beginning, God created all things in the divine nature.
>> Lucifer, Adam and Eve chose to sin against God. Therefore, we live
>> under a fallen condition but not as God originally created and meant
>> for us to exist.
>
>Two issue here. Hell as most people understand it, doesn't exist.
>Lucifer is not Satan and is a man.
You deny scriptures from the KJV Bible. I guess you have the right and
free will to make up your own religion - even your own form of
Christianity. Many people do it but with all the religious knowledge
in the world, there can only be one truth because each one denies the
teachings of the other. Believe as you will, live as you will but
you'll tie the hands of Jesus in your life and he won't be able to
help you.
>
>Messengers or "angels" are not born but were created and they wouldn't
>have fleshly identification.
God created angels as adults but they do have their own names, like
Gabriel and Michael. Angels did breed with the human race for a time
in the OT until God put a stop to it.
guardian Snow
> On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 17:39:06 -0800 (PST), guardian Snow
>
The KJV is just a very bad translation of scriptures and thats a
fact. It was altered by orders of King James and certain words were
expunged from text in order to support a false doctrine. These
changes still occur even more in modern translations.
I agree with you on heavenly "messengers" having names but it is wrong
that you assumed Lucifer is one of these beings.
Isa 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and
consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble,
that did shake kingdoms;
Isa 14:25 That I will break the Assyrian in my land,
Lucifer is clearly identified as an Assyrian man. Please, don't think
that because somebody told you otherwise that what the "masses" have
been told is the truth.
Mar 1:1 The beginning of the Good News of יהושע Messiah, the Son of
Elohim.
Please don't blame me if you don't know the name of Yeshua Messiah, I
didn't make you except a bad translation.
Respect,
Snow
Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone
deeply gives you courage. From caring comes courage.
Lao Tzu
For Real
If what you state is true about the translations of the KJV Bible, how
do know that the word, man, could have been a replacement for another
word? The Bible cannot always be translated into literal expressions.
There are times when it euphemizes human beings in references to
Lucifer. Look at Ezekiel 28. It mentions the prince of Tyrus. However,
in reading further, one discovers that it's actually speaking of
Lucifer. Eze:28:13: Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God... Who
the prince of Tyrus? No, Lucifer, aka the Devil. Only Lucifer, Adam
and Eve were in the Garden of Eden.
Only a sincere and honest heart before Jehovah God will find the true
understanding of the Bible. Don't be fooled by how the Bible is
written or how people might have 'controlled' the way it was written.
The KJV Bible is written as God has permitted and allowed. His
thoughts are higher than our thoughts.
guardian Snow
> If what you state is true about the translations of the KJV Bible, how
> do know that the word, man, could have been a replacement for another
> word?
To quote the KJV Holy Bible’s first page: “The HOLY BIBLE containing
THE OLD
AND NEW TESTAMENT TRANSLATED OUT OF THE FORMER TONGUES AND WITH
THE FORMER TRANSLATIONS DILIGENTLY COMPARED AND REVISED BY HIS
MAJESTY’S SPECIAL COMMAND. APPOINTED TO BE READ IN CHURCHES.
Authorized King James Version”.
The King "authorized" scriptures to be altered and it's acknowledged
on page 1. The bible in NT form is not like Hebrew scriptures where
word for word details are preserved. When you consider the
canonization of those scriptures by the RCC, you find we have a
completely different doctrine then that which the Hebrew Messiah
יהושע preached.
Respect,
Snow
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish
and you feed him for a lifetime.
Lao Tzu
Debra
Mark says:
> Messengers or "angels" are not born but were created and they wouldn't
> have fleshly identification.
Debra asks:
Who was Abraham feeding?? Whose feet was he washing?? Who went to
Sodom?? Messengers or Angels?? Who did Lot have bread prepared for to
eat?? Just curious...Did they ever appear in the flesh?
Genesis 18
1And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in
the tent door in the heat of the day;
2And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him:
and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and
bowed himself toward the ground,
3And said, My LORD, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not
away, I pray thee, from thy servant:
4Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and
rest yourselves under the tree:
5And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts;
after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your
servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.
6And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready
quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the
hearth.
7And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetcht a calf tender and good,
and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it.
8And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and
set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did
eat.
9And they said unto him, Where is Sarah thy wife? And he said,
Behold, in the tent.
10And he said, I will certainly return unto thee according to the
time of life; and, lo, Sarah thy wife shall have a son. And Sarah
heard it in the tent door, which was behind him.
11Now Abraham and Sarah were old and well stricken in age; and it
ceased to be with Sarah after the manner of women.
12Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed
old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?
13And the LORD said unto Abraham, Wherefore did Sarah laugh, saying,
Shall I of a surety bear a child, which am old?
14Is any thing too hard for the LORD? At the time appointed I will
return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have
a son.
15Then Sarah denied, saying, I laughed not; for she was afraid. And
he said, Nay; but thou didst laugh.
16And the men rose up from thence, and looked toward Sodom: and
Abraham went with them to bring them on the way.
17And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I
do;
18Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation,
and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?
19For I know him, that he will command his children and his household
after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and
judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath
spoken of him.
20And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great,
and because their sin is very grievous;
21I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether
according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will
know.
22And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom:
but Abraham stood yet before the LORD.
23And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the
righteous with the wicked?
24Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou
also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are
therein?
25That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the
righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the
wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do
right?
26And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the
city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.
27And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to
speak unto the LORD, which am but dust and ashes:
28Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt
thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And he said, If I find
there forty and five, I will not destroy it.
29And he spake unto him yet again, and said, Peradventure there shall
be forty found there. And he said, I will not do it for forty's sake.
30And he said unto him, Oh let not the LORD be angry, and I will
speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said, I
will not do it, if I find thirty there.
31And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the
LORD: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I
will not destroy it for twenty's sake.
32And he said, Oh let not the LORD be angry, and I will speak yet but
this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will
not destroy it for ten's sake.
33And the LORD went his way, as soon as he had left communing with
Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.
Genesis 19
1And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate
of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed
himself with his face toward the ground;
2And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your
servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall
rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will
abide in the street all night.
3And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and
entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake
unleavened bread, and they did eat.
4But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of
Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people
from every quarter:
5And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which
came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know
them.
6And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after
him,
7And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.
8Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I
pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in
your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they
under the shadow of my roof.
9And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came
in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse
with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even
Lot, and came near to break the door.
10But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to
them, and shut to the door.
11And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with
blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to
find the door.
12And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law,
and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city,
bring them out of this place:
13For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen
great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to
destroy it.
14And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his
daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the LORD will
destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in
law.
15And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying,
Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou
be consumed in the iniquity of the city.
16And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon
the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the LORD
being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him
without the city.
17And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that
he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou
in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed.
18And Lot said unto them, Oh, not so, my LORD:
19Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou
hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast shewed unto me in saving my
life; and I cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, and
I die:
20Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a little one:
Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall
live.
21And he said unto him, See, I have accepted thee concerning this
thing also, that I will not overthrow this city, for the which thou
hast spoken.
22Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do anything till thou be
come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar.
23The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar.
24Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and
fire from the LORD out of heaven;
25And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the
inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.
26But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar
of salt.
27And Abraham gat up early in the morning to the place where he stood
before the LORD:
28And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of
the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as
the smoke of a furnace.
29And it came to pass, when God destroyed the cities of the plain,
that God remembered Abraham, and sent Lot out of the midst of the
overthrow, when he overthrew the cities in the which Lot dwelt.
30And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two
daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a
cave, he and his two daughters.
31And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and
there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of
all the earth:
32Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him,
that we may preserve seed of our father.
33And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn
went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay
down, nor when she arose.
34And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the
younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him
drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we
may preserve seed of our father.
35And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the
younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay
down, nor when she arose.
36Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.
37And the first born bare a son, and called his name Moab: the same
is the father of the Moabites unto this day.
38And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Benammi:
the same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day.
Debra
Mark says:
> Messengers or "angels" are not born but were created and they wouldn't
> have fleshly identification
Debra asks?? How did the sons of G-d mate with the daughters of men??
Could they become fleshly?
Genesis 6
1And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the
earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair;
and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for
that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty
years.
4There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that,
when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare
children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of
renown.
5And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and
that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil
continually.
6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it
grieved him at his heart.
Pastor Dave
<nospam-...@sbcglobal.net> said the following:
>>Two issue here. Hell as most people understand it,
>>doesn't exist. Lucifer is not Satan and is a man.
>
>You deny scriptures from the KJV Bible. I guess you
>have the right and free will to make up your own religion
>- even your own form of Christianity.
So we must all buy KJV's to be Christians?
I don't get your point.
--
When Christianity becomes religion it leaves the heart hungry.
Pastor Dave
<snowp...@eck.net.au> said the following:
>The KJV is just a very bad translation of scriptures
>and thats a fact.
No, that's your fantasy.
--
"If something in science suddenly becomes so sacrosanct
that you can't question it, then it ceases to be science",
he said. "And I really think that's what's become of
Darwinism." - Roger DeHart
Pastor Dave
<snowp...@eck.net.au> said the following:
>On Nov 26, 3:20 pm, For Real <nospam-webex...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> If what you state is true about the translations of the KJV Bible, how
>> do know that the word, man, could have been a replacement for another
>> word?
>
>To quote the KJV Holy Bible’s first page: “The HOLY BIBLE containing
>THE OLD
>AND NEW TESTAMENT TRANSLATED OUT OF THE FORMER TONGUES AND WITH
>THE FORMER TRANSLATIONS DILIGENTLY COMPARED AND REVISED BY HIS
>MAJESTY’S SPECIAL COMMAND. APPOINTED TO BE READ IN CHURCHES.
>Authorized King James Version”.
>
>The King "authorized" scriptures to be altered and it's acknowledged
>on page 1.
You just aren't too bright, huh?! Revised does not
mean, "we changed the wording to something it
doesn't really say".
--
The Last Days were in the first century:
"A LITTLE WHILE, and ye shall not see me:
and again, A LITTLE WHILE and ye shall
see me, because I go to the Father."
- John 16:16
guardian Snow
> On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 21:13:26 -0800 (PST), guardian Snow
>
> >On Nov 26, 3:20 pm, For Real <nospam-webex...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> >> If what you state is true about the translations of the KJV Bible, how
> >> do know that the word, man, could have been a replacement for another
> >> word?
>
> >To quote the KJV Holy Bible's first page: "The HOLY BIBLE containing
> >THE OLD
> >AND NEW TESTAMENT TRANSLATED OUT OF THE FORMER TONGUES AND WITH
> >THE FORMER TRANSLATIONS DILIGENTLY COMPARED AND REVISED BY HIS
> >MAJESTY'S SPECIAL COMMAND. APPOINTED TO BE READ IN CHURCHES.
> >Authorized King James Version".
>
> >The King "authorized" scriptures to be altered and it's acknowledged
> >on page 1.
>
> You just aren't too bright, huh?! Revised does not
> mean, "we changed the wording to something it
> doesn't really say".
Revise
REVI'SE, v.t. s as z. [L. revisus, reviso, to revisit; re and viso, to
see, to visit.]
1. To review; to re-examine; to look over with care for correction;
as, to revise a writing; to revise a proof sheet.
2. To review, alter and amend; as, to revise statutes.
I don't define words. Revise includes "alter and amend". While you
may not like the fact that it was revised the facts still remain that
many referances to Sabbath practice were removed from scriptures after
the death of the Messiah.
This is in fact because your modern church didn't want to maintain
sound doctrine but wanted to keep the man made tradition of Sun Day
worship. The fact of the matter is that you can give no scripture to
support changing the Sabbath and ones that you do provide.. I'll give
money have the word Sabbath removed. See if you can give 2
consecutive verses that give proof..
Care to try?
Regards,
Snow
To know yet to think that one does not know is best; Not to know yet
to think that one knows will lead to difficulty.
Lao Tzu
guardian Snow
> >Lucifer is clearly identified as an Assyrian man. Please, don't think
> >that because somebody told you otherwise that what the "masses" have
> >been told is the truth.
>
> If what you state is true about the translations of the KJV Bible, how
> do know that the word, man, could have been a replacement for another
> word?
Unlike the Christian church, the Hebrews did a much better job a
keeping originals and passing them on to ensure that the very jot of
every word was preserved for us. All we have to do is check into the
source, which I did.
> The Bible cannot always be translated into literal expressions.
> There are times when it euphemizes human beings in references to
> Lucifer.
The name "Lucifer" or "Morning Star" is only found in one spot in the
entire bible, Isaiah 14 is it.
> Look at Ezekiel 28. It mentions the prince of Tyrus. However,
> in reading further, one discovers that it's actually speaking of
> Lucifer.
Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious
stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the
beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the
carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes
was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
> Eze:28:13: Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God... Who
> the prince of Tyrus? No, Lucifer, aka the Devil. Only Lucifer, Adam
> and Eve were in the Garden of Eden.
It makes no connection between the two and what your failing to
recognize is that Lucifer is "Son of the Dawn". Satan is not a "son"
of anything being a created being.
> Only a sincere and honest heart before Jehovah God will find the true
> understanding of the Bible. Don't be fooled by how the Bible is
> written or how people might have 'controlled' the way it was written.
> The KJV Bible is written as God has permitted and allowed. His
> thoughts are higher than our thoughts.
The KJV Bible is written how men created it and while I recognize his
finger in the work gladly, I can also point out that the topic must be
addressed first by us humbling ourselves before the creator. I
respect that you have a different view because people have told you
one and the same but they are wrong, Lucifer is identified as a man
and given mortal status of being from the North, Assyria. It would
make no sense to use the name once and say, "Is this the man".
Regards,
Snow
To realize that you do not understand is a virtue; Not to realize that
you do not understand is a defect.
Lao Tzu
Libertarius
===>So, your "omniscient", "all-knowing" deity had no idea what
"Lucifer" would turn out to be
when he created "Lucifer in the divine nature"???
You guys are so funny in your total lack of
reason and logical thinking. -- L.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
::: good news :::
Dave, phase 2: telling the victim that he has twisted Dave's words
Dave, phase 3: telling the victim that he has twisted Dave's words and
snipped most of them
Dave, phase 4: telling the victim that he has twisted Dave's words and
snipped most of them, and calling the victim a liar
Dave, phase 5: telling the victim that he has twisted Dave's words and
snipped most of them, and calling the victim a liar and getting abusive
Dave, phase 6: telling the victim that he has twisted Dave's words and
snipped most of them, and calling the victim a liar and getting abusive,
starting a smear campaign
Dave, phase 7: telling the victim that he has twisted Dave's words and
snipped most of them, and calling the victim a liar and getting abusive,
starting a smear campaign, pretending to put the victim into his
kill-file
This is Dave in phase 5 below.... Snow, watch out, the next smear
campaign is ahead...
Sometimes it happens that he can add people to his false Christian sect
between phase 1 to 7.
In news:jf8lk3psd7a66dt44...@4ax.com,
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> typed:
For Real
Lucifer was created the most beautiful angel in heaven but his vanity
got the best of him.
>
>
>
>> Eze:28:13: Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God... Who
>> the prince of Tyrus? No, Lucifer, aka the Devil. Only Lucifer, Adam
>> and Eve were in the Garden of Eden.
>
>It makes no connection between the two and what your failing to
>recognize is that Lucifer is "Son of the Dawn". Satan is not a "son"
>of anything being a created being.
The sons of God were angels. God's only begotten Son is Jesus.
Ge:6:2: That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were
fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Ge:6:4: There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after
that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they
bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old,
men of renown.
Job:1:6: Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present
themselves before the LORD, and Satan (Lucifer) came also among them.
Job:2:1: Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present
themselves before the LORD, and Satan (Lucifer) came also among them
to present himself before the LORD.
>
>> Only a sincere and honest heart before Jehovah God will find the true
>> understanding of the Bible. Don't be fooled by how the Bible is
>> written or how people might have 'controlled' the way it was written.
>> The KJV Bible is written as God has permitted and allowed. His
>> thoughts are higher than our thoughts.
>
>The KJV Bible is written how men created it and while I recognize his
>finger in the work gladly, I can also point out that the topic must be
>addressed first by us humbling ourselves before the creator. I
>respect that you have a different view because people have told you
>one and the same but they are wrong, Lucifer is identified as a man
>and given mortal status of being from the North, Assyria. It would
>make no sense to use the name once and say, "Is this the man".
I'm not going to argue this with you but it's euphemism. Believe as
you will. This information isn't what saves a person's soul anyway.
God bless
For Real
<Liber...@nothingbutthe.truth> wrote:
>===>So, your "omniscient", "all-knowing" deity had no idea what
>"Lucifer" would turn out to be
>when he created "Lucifer in the divine nature"???
God chose to not look into the future of Lucifer, Adam and Eve. He
wanted to be able to trust in them. Looking into their future wouldn't
be an act of trust.
>
>You guys are so funny in your total lack of
>reason and logical thinking. -- L.
If you're a reasonable and logical thinking person, then why aren't
you standing out of the crowd and doing more for humanity when you
could be helping others with your reasoning and logical thinking?
guardian Snow
> On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 09:03:14 -0700, Libertarius
>
I disagree with you and you show that your fantasy belief is
unsupported by scriptures. You can't connect Lucifer and Satan as
one. You can't show scriptures that say the "sons of Elohim" are
angels/messengers and you can't show in scriptures anything that
supports all the fiction your putting out here to a non believer and I
have to question why?
If you can't put up, shut up.
Regards,
Snow
But what is liberty without wisdom, and without virtue? It is the
greatest of all possible evils; for it is folly, vice, and madness,
without tuition or restraint.
Edmund Burke
For Real
I don't know who you think the Devil is or how he came to be, but I
can't believe that you're stuck on this topic. Our conversation proves
that Christians are greatly divided over the Bible. I wouldn't doubt
that there are other topics where we disagree. If God is really
working in your life, nothing will be able to defeat you. I'll stick
with our ministry teachings where people are claiming to be healed of
AIDS, cancer and other diseases through the blood of Jesus.
guardian Snow
> I don't know who you think the Devil is or how he came to be, but I
> can't believe that you're stuck on this topic. Our conversation proves
> that Christians are greatly divided over the Bible.
Your absolutely correct about that.
> I wouldn't doubt
> that there are other topics where we disagree. If God is really
> working in your life, nothing will be able to defeat you.
You make a lot of assumptions from a simple conversation. My point
being that a lot of these things you are claiming, you can't support
with scriptures. Your claiming that Lucifer is Satan and that is not
scriptural when it says clearly that he is a Assyrian man. While
Lucifer is probably inspired by Satan, they are not the same.
> I'll stick
> with our ministry teachings where people are claiming to be healed of
> AIDS, cancer and other diseases through the blood of Jesus.
I'm happy to here this and I'm glad for you. I didn't ask you to
change your ministry but I do insist that before you go out putting
out fairy tales, you find support for what your saying in scriptures.
Scriptures are what are faith is built on and not just assumptions
that don't actually jibe with what is written.
Regards,
Snow
He that struggles with us strengthens our nerves, and sharpens our
skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
Edmund Burke
guardian Snow
> Dave, phase 1: presentation of the brain-washing material
> Dave, phase 2: telling the victim that he has twisted Dave's words
> Dave, phase 3: telling the victim that he has twisted Dave's words and
> snipped most of them
> Dave, phase 4: telling the victim that he has twisted Dave's words and
> snipped most of them, and calling the victim a liar
> Dave, phase 5: telling the victim that he has twisted Dave's words and
> snipped most of them, and calling the victim a liar and getting abusive
> Dave, phase 6: telling the victim that he has twisted Dave's words and
> snipped most of them, and calling the victim a liar and getting abusive,
> starting a smear campaign
> Dave, phase 7: telling the victim that he has twisted Dave's words and
> snipped most of them, and calling the victim a liar and getting abusive,
> starting a smear campaign, pretending to put the victim into his
> kill-file
>
> This is Dave in phase 5 below.... Snow, watch out, the next smear
> campaign is ahead...
>
> Sometimes it happens that he can add people to his false Christian sect
> between phase 1 to 7.
>
> Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> typed:
>
> > On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 21:13:26 -0800 (PST), guardian Snow
>
> >> On Nov 26, 3:20 pm, For Real <nospam-webex...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> >>> If what you state is true about the translations of the KJV Bible,
> >>> how do know that the word, man, could have been a replacement for
> >>> another word?
>
> >> To quote the KJV Holy Bible's first page: "The HOLY BIBLE containing
> >> THE OLD
> >> AND NEW TESTAMENT TRANSLATED OUT OF THE FORMER TONGUES AND WITH
> >> THE FORMER TRANSLATIONS DILIGENTLY COMPARED AND REVISED BY HIS
> >> MAJESTY'S SPECIAL COMMAND. APPOINTED TO BE READ IN CHURCHES.
> >> Authorized King James Version".
>
> >> The King "authorized" scriptures to be altered and it's acknowledged
> >> on page 1.
>
> > You just aren't too bright, huh?! Revised does not
> > mean, "we changed the wording to something it
> > doesn't really say".
>
> > --
>
> > The Last Days were in the first century:
>
> > "A LITTLE WHILE, and ye shall not see me:
> > and again, A LITTLE WHILE and ye shall
> > see me, because I go to the Father."
> > - John 16:16
Thanks for the heads up but I bet that Dave is going to surprise you
for a pleasant change. Possibly things GK says to him get into his
being or maybe scriptures.
Respect,
Snow
It is a general popular error to suppose the loudest complainers for
the public to be the most anxious for its welfare.
Edmund Burke
::: good news :::
news:8f1d14d5-133f-4d99...@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com,
guardian Snow <snowp...@eck.net.au> typed:
It would be nice to see that. But I think he cannot stop reacting like
he does - sooner or later. It is his pride.
> Respect,
>
> Snow
>
> It is a general popular error to suppose the loudest complainers for
> the public to be the most anxious for its welfare.
> Edmund Burke
Peace,
::: vera :::
guardian Snow
> Innews:8f1d14d5-133f-4d99...@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com,
> guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> typed:
I can hope, I can dream, I can give all my prayers that some people
are reachable with the truth that is in scriptures and that we can all
take a moment to evaluate for ourselves the mercy, grace and mystery
that is the greatest story ever told.
I'm sure even you share in a prayer of peace and revelation. I don't
subscribe to the idea that we should consider everybody lost and
without the possibility of being reached for יהוה and his truth. It
is by long suffering that we continue in the mission of outreach to
all our brothers and sisters.
Respect,
Snow
Liberty must be limited in order to be possessed. Nobody made a
greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a
little.
Edmund Burke
Pastor Dave
<snowp...@eck.net.au> said the following:
>On Nov 26, 9:38 pm, Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 21:13:26 -0800 (PST), guardian Snow
>> <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> said the following:
>>
>> >On Nov 26, 3:20 pm, For Real <nospam-webex...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>> >> If what you state is true about the translations of the KJV Bible, how
>> >> do know that the word, man, could have been a replacement for another
>> >> word?
>>
>> >To quote the KJV Holy Bible's first page: "The HOLY BIBLE containing
>> >THE OLD
>> >AND NEW TESTAMENT TRANSLATED OUT OF THE FORMER TONGUES AND WITH
>> >THE FORMER TRANSLATIONS DILIGENTLY COMPARED AND REVISED BY HIS
>> >MAJESTY'S SPECIAL COMMAND. APPOINTED TO BE READ IN CHURCHES.
>> >Authorized King James Version".
>>
>> >The King "authorized" scriptures to be altered and it's acknowledged
>> >on page 1.
>>
>> You just aren't too bright, huh?! Revised does not
>> mean, "we changed the wording to something it
>> doesn't really say".
>
>Revise
>REVI'SE, v.t. s as z. [L. revisus, reviso, to revisit; re and viso, to
>see, to visit.]
I can say, "The door is open" and then later find
that "The door is opened" is a better translation
and guess what? I have "revised" and "altered" it!
You can twist whatever you want to. You ascribe
a motive that didn't exist. Every translation is a
"revision". Hello??? Duh!!!
--
Exchange between Marge and Geoffrey the butler
on "Fresh Prince" (both African American):
Marge: "My brother, you have been oppressed,
repressed and suppressed. Don't you know
you can be free?"
Geoffrey: "I have known freedom. I don't like
the health plan."
guardian Snow
> I can say, "The door is open" and then later find
> that "The door is opened" is a better translation
> and guess what? I have "revised" and "altered" it!
>
> You can twist whatever you want to. You ascribe
> a motive that didn't exist. Every translation is a
> "revision". Hello??? Duh!!!
I find the use of the word, "Duh" an interesting choice for you and
befitting a man of your stature and condescention. If what you stated
were true then there would be no need for having two words since they
according to you, have the same meaning. A translation can be just
that and have no revision. The fact that the KJV bible was revised is
very obvious and I see you didn't take me up on my challenge to find 2
consecutive passages in the entire bible, including Paul, that would
allow you to change sabbath practice.
What you will find is that every instance of passages used have been
revised to remove the word Sabbath from the text. While you may not
like reality, it doesn't change just because your arrogant about it.
Regards,
Snow
Nothing is so fatal to religion as indifference which is, at least,
half infidelity. Sin has many tools, but a lie is the handle which
fits them all.
Edmund Burke
Pastor Dave
<snowp...@eck.net.au> said the following:
>On Nov 27, 9:43 pm, Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I can say, "The door is open" and then later find
>> that "The door is opened" is a better translation
>> and guess what? I have "revised" and "altered" it!
>>
>> You can twist whatever you want to. You ascribe
>> a motive that didn't exist. Every translation is a
>> "revision". Hello??? Duh!!!
>
>I find the use of the word, "Duh"
...appropriate for you? So do I!
--
If your bible is falling apart, chances are your life
is staying together.
guardian Snow
> >I find the use of the word, "Duh"
>
> ...appropriate for you? So do I!
It's good to know what for certain the level of maturity I'm dealing
with here. You do know it's better to be silent and let people think
your a fool then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
Regards,
Snow
Under the pressure of the cares and sorrows of our mortal condition,
men have at all times, and in all countries, called in some physical
aid to their moral consolations - wine, beer, opium, brandy, or
tobacco.
Edmund Burke
guardian Snow
wrote:
> ===>So, your "omniscient", "all-knowing" deity had no idea what
> "Lucifer" would turn out to be
> when he created "Lucifer in the divine nature"???
If you mean Satan then ask yourself first, how is it you fell from his
grace? Was it pride or arrogance? I'm not trying to be insulting but
clearly you don't believe in יהוה Elohim. If the creator wanted to
test you, then wouldn't it make perfect sense to allow those things
that would try your spirit? It does to me.
> You guys are so funny in your total lack of
> reason and logical thinking. -- L.
If you think I lack logic then please, explain to me what is logic and
more important, what's your's? Clearly you having a start of
understanding what I believe. Let's here what you think. For
starters, how did all of this come to be? Do you believe intelligent
design or "higher power".. are you just trolling Christian boards
looking to find fault or do you want to find truth?
Hope you find what your looking for, thanks for your input into the
debate:)
Peace,
Snow
Toleration is good for all, or it is good for none.
Edmund Burke
Barry OGrady
Christians are programmed to praise God so they say whatever they
think sounds good without thinking.
Barry
=====
Home page
http://members.iinet.net.au/~barry.og
I do not represent atheists or atheism
Barry OGrady
>On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 09:03:14 -0700, Libertarius
><Liber...@nothingbutthe.truth> wrote:
>
>>===>So, your "omniscient", "all-knowing" deity had no idea what
>>"Lucifer" would turn out to be
>>when he created "Lucifer in the divine nature"???
>
>God chose to not look into the future of Lucifer, Adam and Eve. He
>wanted to be able to trust in them. Looking into their future wouldn't
>be an act of trust.
You guys are so funny in your total lack of
reason and logical thinking.
Barry
Barry OGrady
Does your ministry say why God created those diseases?
Reality Check
<god_fre...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Does your ministry say why God created those diseases?
>
>Barry
>=====
>Home page
>http://members.iinet.net.au/~barry.og
>I do not represent atheists or atheism
All sickness and diseases come from the Devil. When Jesus prayed for
the sick and afflicted, he commanded devils to leave. Satan has the
power to destroy flesh and blood thanks to Adam and Eve.
Pastor Dave
<snowp...@eck.net.au> said the following:
>On Nov 28, 12:04 am, Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> >I find the use of the word, "Duh"
>>
>> ...appropriate for you? So do I!
>
>It's good to know....
what the truth is and I do.
--
The Last Days were in the first century:
Luke 21:20-22
20) And when YE shall see JERUSALEM compassed
with armies, then know that the desolation
THEREOF IS NIGH.
21) Then let them which are IN JUDEA flee to
the mountains; and let them which are in the
midst of it depart out; and let not them that
are in the countries enter thereinto.
22) For THESE be the days of vengeance, that
ALL THINGs WHICH ARE WRITTEN, MAY BE FULFILLED.
guardian Snow
wrote:
> All sickness and diseases come from the Devil. When Jesus prayed for
> the sick and afflicted, he commanded devils to leave. Satan has the
> power to destroy flesh and blood thanks to Adam and Eve.
Now this is a practice that I hate. Both Christians and non-believers
go around blaming everything wrong in the world on everybody but there
own lack of self control.
Deu 30:15 “See, I have set before you today life and good, and death
and evil,
Deu 30:16 in that I am commanding you today to love יהוה your Elohim,
to walk in His ways, and to guard His commands, and His laws, and His
right-rulings. And you shall live and increase, and יהוה your Elohim
shall bless you in the land which you go to possess.
Christians go around eating what is basically Elohim's toilet, pigs
and shell fish, they smoke, drink and don't take care of their bodies
and then blame Adam. Now I have to tell you... Paul is a false
apostle and most of his teaching are flat out wrong. You can't blame
Adam for your own lack of faith.
Eze 18:18 “His father, because he used oppression, robbed his brother,
and did what is not good among his people, see, he shall die for his
crookedness.
Eze 18:19 “And you said, ‘Why should the son not bear the crookedness
of the father?’ But the son has done right-ruling and righteousness,
he has guarded all My laws and he does them, he shall certainly live.
Eze 18:20 “The being who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the
crookedness of the father, nor the father bear the crookedness of the
son. The righteousness of the righteous is upon himself, and the
wrongness of the wrong is upon himself.
Eze 18:21 “But the wrong1, if he turns from all his sins which he has
done, and he shall guard all My laws, and shall do right-ruling and
righteousness, he shall certainly live, he shall not die. Footnote:
1Similar passages in 3:18-21, 33:8-20.
We see here that clearly the son does NOT die for the sins of the
father and so, man is not guilty of sin because of Adam, which is a
false teaching of Paul.
Rev 22:12 “And see, I am coming speedily, and My reward is with Me, to
give to each according to his work.
Each according to his work. Everybody is judge as individuals by his
own actions. Don't expect Yeshua to be your righteousness, be your
own righteousness and be an example in the community.
The biggest complaint of non-believers is that while "Christians"
profess faith with there mouth and act self-righteous because they
claim יהושע, the run around doing some of the most horrible things and
by there example drive people away from there false religion. I can
easily say it's false when you proclaim יהושע as your Messiah and act
like the devil himself and worse.
Regards,
Snow
Danger breeds best on too much confidence. Oh, how sweet it is to pity
the fate of an enemy who can no longer threaten us!
Pierre Corneille
Barry OGrady
>On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:38:38 +1100, Barry OGrady
><god_fre...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Does your ministry say why God created those diseases?
>>
>>Barry
>All sickness and diseases come from the Devil.
Does your ministry say why God created diseases via the Devil?
>When Jesus prayed for the sick and afflicted, he commanded devils to leave.
Modern medicine has shown that disease is not caused by devils.
>Satan has the power to destroy flesh and blood thanks to Adam and Eve.
Does your ministry say why God created Adam and Eve that way?
For Real
<god_fre...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 04:08:00 GMT, Reality Check <nospam-...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:38:38 +1100, Barry OGrady
>><god_fre...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Does your ministry say why God created those diseases?
>>>
>>>Barry
>
>>All sickness and diseases come from the Devil.
>
>Does your ministry say why God created diseases via the Devil?
I'm sorry God that so many people are pointing the finger at you.
>
>>When Jesus prayed for the sick and afflicted, he commanded devils to leave.
>
>Modern medicine has shown that disease is not caused by devils.
Modern medicine doesn't address supernatural affliction - the opposite
of divine healing. Too many people are claiming to have received
divine healing.
>
>>Satan has the power to destroy flesh and blood thanks to Adam and Eve.
>
>Does your ministry say why God created Adam and Eve that way?
God created Adam and Eve with free will and they chose wrong. You
exercise your free will and free choice everyday. You can do and say
whatever your heart desires. God for it!
For Real
<snowp...@eck.net.au> wrote:
>On Nov 28, 3:08 pm, Reality Check <nospam-webex...@sbcglobal.net>
>wrote:
>
>> All sickness and diseases come from the Devil. When Jesus prayed for
>> the sick and afflicted, he commanded devils to leave. Satan has the
>> power to destroy flesh and blood thanks to Adam and Eve.
>
>Now this is a practice that I hate. Both Christians and non-believers
>go around blaming everything wrong in the world on everybody but there
>own lack of self control.
You're fortunate if you've never suffered illness that you couldn't
help, even to the point of facing death.
>
>Deu 30:15 鉄ee, I have set before you today life and good, and death
>and evil,
>Deu 30:16 in that I am commanding you today to love ???? your Elohim,
>to walk in His ways, and to guard His commands, and His laws, and His
>right-rulings. And you shall live and increase, and ???? your Elohim
>shall bless you in the land which you go to possess.
>
>Christians go around eating what is basically Elohim's toilet, pigs
>and shell fish, they smoke, drink and don't take care of their bodies
>and then blame Adam. Now I have to tell you... Paul is a false
>apostle and most of his teaching are flat out wrong. You can't blame
>Adam for your own lack of faith.
Paul is a false prophet? Wow! Didn't Jesus choose Paul on his way to
Damascus? Paul became Christian after his personal experience.
>The biggest complaint of non-believers is that while "Christians"
>profess faith with there mouth and act self-righteous because they
>claim ?????, the run around doing some of the most horrible things and
>by there example drive people away from there false religion. I can
>easily say it's false when you proclaim ????? as your Messiah and act
>like the devil himself and worse.
I agree. "Wolves in sheep's clothing" has been such a problem down
through the years.
guardian Snow
> On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 21:07:44 -0800 (PST), guardian Snow
>
> >On Nov 28, 3:08 pm, Reality Check <nospam-webex...@sbcglobal.net>
> >wrote:
>
> >> All sickness and diseases come from the Devil. When Jesus prayed for
> >> the sick and afflicted, he commanded devils to leave. Satan has the
> >> power to destroy flesh and blood thanks to Adam and Eve.
>
> >Now this is a practice that I hate. Both Christians and non-believers
> >go around blaming everything wrong in the world on everybody but there
> >own lack of self control.
>
> You're fortunate if you've never suffered illness that you couldn't
> help, even to the point of facing death.
Actually, I have to give praise that Elohim is very merciful and I
have to credit him alone for a number of events where I not only faced
death but also can attribute his healing in my life.
When I first got out of the military, I had a sever back problem that
followed me for several years and cause me so much pain, I couldn't
even walk a block without pain shooting up and down my body. I went to
some of the best medical specialist in Los Angeles and they
recommended surgery. Then one day I remembered finally to ask יהוה
for his healing and within a matter of days.. I don't remember how
long.. but all of a sudden, the pain was gone.
I can only credit יהוה and his mercy. I can talk about a few
instances in my life where I've faced death from the hands of people
and felt him.. Seen tornadoes and been directly under one and was
protected by him...
No, I've been blessed and seen his hand in my life dozens of times...
I'll address those other issues later brother:)
Regards,
Snow
An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation,
nor does truth become error because nobody sees it.
Mohandas Gandhi
>
> >Deu 30:15 “See, I have set before you today life and good, and death
Mistylein
"For Real" <nospam-...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:h56sk3lljg45jrq6h...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 12:08:36 +1100, Barry OGrady
> <god_fre...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 04:08:00 GMT, Reality Check <nospam-...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:38:38 +1100, Barry OGrady
>>><god_fre...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Does your ministry say why God created those diseases?
>>>>
>>>>Barry
>>
>>>All sickness and diseases come from the Devil.
>>
>>Does your ministry say why God created diseases via the Devil?
>
> I'm sorry God that so many people are pointing the finger at you.
Isaiah 45:7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace,
and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
(KJV)
This like other place in the versions of the Bible is a translation
Error.
7 I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the LORD, do all these things. (NIV)
So compare the differecs God did not say that the
Bible translators said God said that
M,
guardian Snow
> "For Real" <nospam-webex...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>
> news:h56sk3lljg45jrq6h...@4ax.com...
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 12:08:36 +1100, Barry OGrady
>
> >>On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 04:08:00 GMT, Reality Check <nospam-webex...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> >>>On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:38:38 +1100, Barry OGrady
> >>><god_free_jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>Does your ministry say why God created those diseases?
>
> >>>>Barry
>
> >>>All sickness and diseases come from the Devil.
>
> >>Does your ministry say why God created diseases via the Devil?
>
> > I'm sorry God that so many people are pointing the finger at you.
>
> Isaiah 45:7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace,
> and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
> (KJV)
>
> This like other place in the versions of the Bible is a translation
> Error.
>
> 7 I form the light and create darkness,
> I bring prosperity and create disaster;
> I, the LORD, do all these things. (NIV)
>
> So compare the differecs God did not say that the
>
> Bible translators said God said that
>
> M,
I would say it's fairly frequent then only one version says calamity
instead of evil.
Isa 45:7
(ESV) I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create
calamity, I am the LORD, who does all these things.
(JPS) I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create
evil; I am the LORD, that doeth all these things.
(KJV+) I form3335 the light,216 and create1254 darkness:2822 I
make6213 peace,7965 and create1254 evil:7451 I589 the LORD3068 do6213
all3605 these428 things.
(KJVA) I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and
create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
(KJVR) I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and
create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
(The Scriptures 1998+) forming light and creating darkness, making
peace and creating evil. I, יהוה, do all these.’
(Webster) I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and
create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Isa 45:4-7 -
A second and third object are introduced by a second and third
לְמַעַן. “For the sake of my servant Jacob, and Israel my chosen, I
called thee hither by name, surnamed thee when thou knewest me not. I
Jehovah, and there is none else, beside me no God: I equipped thee
when thou knewest me not; that they may know from the rising of the
sun, and its going down, that there is none without me: I Jehovah, and
there is none else, former of the light, and creator of the darkness;
founder of peace, and creator of evil: I Jehovah am He who worketh all
this.” The וָאֶקְרָא which follows the second reason assigned like an
apodosis, is construed doubly: “I called to thee, calling thee by
name.” The parallel אֲכַנְּךָ refers to such titles of honour as “my
shepherd” and “my anointed,” which had been given to him by Jehovah.
This calling, distinguishing, and girding, i.e., this equipment of
Cyrus, took place at a time when Cyrus knew nothing as yet of Jehovah,
and by this very fact Jehovah made known His sole Deity. The meaning
is, not that it occurred while he was still worshipping false gods,
but, as the refrain-like repetition of the words “though thou hast not
know me” affirms with strong emphasis, before he had been brought into
existence, or could know anything of Jehovah. The passage is to be
explained in the same way as Jer_1:5, “Before I formed thee in the
womb, I knew thee” (see Psychol. pp. 36, 37, 39); and what the God of
prophecy here claims for Himself, must not be questioned by false
criticism, or weakened down by false apologetics (i.e., by giving up
the proper name Cyrus as a gloss in Isa_44:28 and Isa_45:1; or
generalizing it into a king's name, such as Pharaoh, Abimelech, or
Agag). The third and last object of this predicted and realized
success of the oppressor of nations and deliverer of Israel is the
acknowledgement of Jehovah, spreading over the heathen world from the
rising and setting of the sun, i.e., in every direction. The ah of
וּמִמַּעֲרָבָה is not a feminine termination (lxx, Targ., Jer.), but a
feminine suffix with He raphato pro mappic (Kimchi); compare
Isa_23:17-18; Isa_34:17 (but not נִצָּה in Isa_18:5, or מוּסָדָה in
Isa_30:32). Shemesh (the sun) is a feminine here, as in Gen_15:17,
Nah_3:17, Mal_4:2, and always in Arabic; for the west is invariably
called מַעֲרָב (Arab. magrib). In Isa_45:7 we are led by the context
to understand by darkness and evil the penal judgments, through which
light and peace, or salvation, break forth for the people of God and
the nations generally. But as the prophecy concerning Cyrus closes
with this self-assertion of Jehovah, it is unquestionably a natural
supposition that there is also a contrast implied to the dualistic
system of Zarathustra, which divided the one nature of the Deity into
two opposing powers (see Windischmann, Zoroastrische Studien, p. 135).
The declaration is so bold, that Marcion appealed to this passage as a
proof that the God of the Old Testament was a different being from the
God of the New, and not the God of goodness only. The Valentinians and
other gnostics also regarded the words “There is no God beside me” in
Isaiah, as deceptive words of the Demiurugs. The early church met them
with Tertullian's reply, “de his creator profitetur malis quae
congruunt judici,” and also made use of this self-attestation of the
God of revelation as a weapon with which to attack Manicheesism. The
meaning of the words is not exhausted by those who content themselves
with the assertion, that by the evil (or darkness) we are not to
understand the evil of guilt (malum culpae), but the evil of
punishment (malum paenae). Undoubtedly, evil as an act is not the
direct working of God, but the spontaneous work of a creature endowed
with freedom. At the same time, evil, as well as good, has in this
sense its origin in God - that He combines within Himself the first
principles of love and wrath, the possibility of evil, the self-
punishment of evil, and therefore the consciousness of guilt as well
as the evil of punishment in the broadest sense. When the apostle
celebrates the glory of free grace in Rom_9:11., he stands on that
giddy height, to which few are able to follow him without falling
headlong into the false conclusions of a decretum absolutum, and the
denial of all creaturely freedom.
Libertarius
> On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 09:03:14 -0700, Libertarius
> <Liber...@nothingbutthe.truth> wrote:
>
>
>>===>So, your "omniscient", "all-knowing" deity had no idea what
>>"Lucifer" would turn out to be
>>when he created "Lucifer in the divine nature"???
>
>
> God chose to not look into the future of Lucifer, Adam and Eve.
===>What a disgusting deity you believe in!
He refuses to look ahead so he could not be blamed for
his screw-ups?
But then in Genesis 6 he admits he is "sorry he made them".
He
> wanted to be able to trust in them.
===>Ah, more Bovine Manure!
Looking into their future wouldn't
> be an act of trust.
>
>
>>You guys are so funny in your total lack of
>>reason and logical thinking. -- L.
>
>
> If you're a reasonable and logical thinking person, then why aren't
> you standing out of the crowd and doing more for humanity when you
> could be helping others with your reasoning and logical thinking?
===>It do, but you and your kind are too closed-minded. You
don't listen. -- L.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Libertarius
> On Nov 27, 3:03 am, Libertarius <Libertar...@nothingbutthe.truth>
> wrote:
>
>
>>===>So, your "omniscient", "all-knowing" deity had no idea what
>>"Lucifer" would turn out to be
>>when he created "Lucifer in the divine nature"???
>
>
> If you mean Satan then ask yourself first, how is it you fell from his
> grace? Was it pride or arrogance? I'm not trying to be insulting but
> clearly you don't believe in יהוה Elohim.
===>Of course not.
he is depicted as a disgusting, malevolent alien screw-up of a "creator"
who ends by declaring he is "sorry he made them" (Gen. 6) -- L.
Barry OGrady
>On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 12:08:36 +1100, Barry OGrady
><god_fre...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 04:08:00 GMT, Reality Check <nospam-...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:38:38 +1100, Barry OGrady
>>><god_fre...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Does your ministry say why God created those diseases?
>>>>
>>>>Barry
>>
>>>All sickness and diseases come from the Devil.
>>
>>Does your ministry say why God created diseases via the Devil?
>
>I'm sorry God that so many people are pointing the finger at you.
So your ministry tries to deflect blame from God?
>>>When Jesus prayed for the sick and afflicted, he commanded devils to leave.
>>
>>Modern medicine has shown that disease is not caused by devils.
>
>Modern medicine doesn't address supernatural affliction
Modern medicine deals with real things.
>- the opposite
>of divine healing. Too many people are claiming to have received
>divine healing.
People claim all sorts of things but we do know devils don't cause
disease.
>>>Satan has the power to destroy flesh and blood thanks to Adam and Eve.
>>
>>Does your ministry say why God created Adam and Eve that way?
>
>God created Adam and Eve with free will and they chose wrong.
Did God learn from that or was God so embarrassed that he took it
out on all of creation?
>You exercise your free will and free choice everyday.
Some people can't choose to overcome their God given desires.
>You can do and say whatever your heart desires.
My heart desires to pump blood. My brain gives me desires which
are not always for the best.
Does God accept responsibility for desires which we can't control?
Why did God create us as just another mammal with the same
limitations as other mammals?
>God for it!
What does that mean?
>>Barry
For Real
<god_fre...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 20:53:48 -0500, For Real <nospam-...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 12:08:36 +1100, Barry OGrady
>><god_fre...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 04:08:00 GMT, Reality Check <nospam-...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:38:38 +1100, Barry OGrady
>>>><god_fre...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Does your ministry say why God created those diseases?
>>>>>
>>>>>Barry
>>>
>>>>All sickness and diseases come from the Devil.
>>>
>>>Does your ministry say why God created diseases via the Devil?
>>
>>I'm sorry God that so many people are pointing the finger at you.
>
>So your ministry tries to deflect blame from God?
There's no point having a free choice to love or not.
>
>>>>When Jesus prayed for the sick and afflicted, he commanded devils to leave.
>>>
>>>Modern medicine has shown that disease is not caused by devils.
>>
>>Modern medicine doesn't address supernatural affliction
>
>Modern medicine deals with real things.
>
>>- the opposite
>>of divine healing. Too many people are claiming to have received
>>divine healing.
>
>People claim all sorts of things but we do know devils don't cause
>disease.
>
>>>>Satan has the power to destroy flesh and blood thanks to Adam and Eve.
>>>
>>>Does your ministry say why God created Adam and Eve that way?
>>
>>God created Adam and Eve with free will and they chose wrong.
>
>Did God learn from that or was God so embarrassed that he took it
>out on all of creation?
I take it that God should have just created people that didn't have
any opportunity whatsoever to prove their genuine love for him.
>
>>You exercise your free will and free choice everyday.
>
>Some people can't choose to overcome their God given desires.
>
>>You can do and say whatever your heart desires.
>
>My heart desires to pump blood. My brain gives me desires which
>are not always for the best.
At least you have an idea of what's best for you and what isn't and
live your life accordingly.
>Does God accept responsibility for desires which we can't control?
God accepts responsibility for creating the human race which is why he
gave us Jesus. Of course, this is all bologna to you anyway. So your
only option is to live the best life that you can and try to be happy
as long as you can.
>Why did God create us as just another mammal with the same
>limitations as other mammals?
Speak for yourself.
>
>>God for it!
>
>What does that mean?
Live the best life that you can and try to be happy as long as you
can.
For Real
<Liber...@nothingbutthe.truth> wrote:
>guardian Snow wrote:
>
>> On Nov 27, 3:03 am, Libertarius <Libertar...@nothingbutthe.truth>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>===>So, your "omniscient", "all-knowing" deity had no idea what
>>>"Lucifer" would turn out to be
>>>when he created "Lucifer in the divine nature"???
>>
>>
>> If you mean Satan then ask yourself first, how is it you fell from his
>> grace? Was it pride or arrogance? I'm not trying to be insulting but
>> clearly you don't believe in ???? Elohim.
>
>===>Of course not.
>he is depicted as a disgusting, malevolent alien screw-up of a "creator"
>who ends by declaring he is "sorry he made them" (Gen. 6) -- L.
Live the best life that you can and try to be happy as long as you
can.
For Real
Live the best life that you can and try to be happy as long as you
can.
guardian Snow
> Live the best life that you can and try to be happy as long as you
> can.
See, this does nothing to prepare people for the fact that there will
be hardships. Having יהוה in your life isn't really saying that your
going to always be happy. To the contrary:
Luk 21:12 “But before all this, they shall lay their hands on you and
persecute you, delivering you up to the congregations and prisons, and
be brought before sovereigns and rulers for My Name’s sake.
Luk 21:16 “And you shall also be betrayed by parents and brothers and
relatives and friends. And some of you shall be put to death.
Luk 21:17 “And you shall be hated by all because of My Name.
We should be ready to bear our cross for the sake of יהושע our
Messiah. Nobody said this would be an easy life.
Shalom,
Snow
Back of every mistaken venture and defeat is the laughter of wisdom,
if you listen.
Carl Sandburg
For Real
<snowp...@eck.net.au> wrote:
>On Nov 30, 3:12 pm, For Real <nospam-webex...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> Live the best life that you can and try to be happy as long as you
>> can.
>
>See, this does nothing to prepare people for the fact that there will
>be hardships. Having ???? in your life isn't really saying that your
>going to always be happy. To the contrary:
>
>Luk 21:12 釘ut before all this, they shall lay their hands on you and
>persecute you, delivering you up to the congregations and prisons, and
>be brought before sovereigns and rulers for My Name痴 sake.
>Luk 21:16 鄭nd you shall also be betrayed by parents and brothers and
>relatives and friends. And some of you shall be put to death.
>Luk 21:17 鄭nd you shall be hated by all because of My Name.
>
>We should be ready to bear our cross for the sake of ????? our
>Messiah. Nobody said this would be an easy life.
>
>Shalom,
>
>Snow
>
>Back of every mistaken venture and defeat is the laughter of wisdom,
>if you listen.
>Carl Sandburg
I know, I agree with you but I was talking to an unbeliever. For
people that don't want to believe in God, this is the only way that
they can live the best life that they'll ever have.
guardian Snow
> I know, I agree with you but I was talking to an unbeliever. For
> people that don't want to believe in God, this is the only way that
> they can live the best life that they'll ever have.
Putting on faith is like putting on a parachute when the plane is
going to crash. The ride may not be any smoother but you'll be happy
you had it if the worst happens. Elohim and gravity have a lot in
common, you can feel the presence but you can't see it or really
describe it but you KNOW it's there. You just have to have faith that
when your jumping out that plane with your parachute that gravity is
going to have it's effect.
You can tell somebody there is gravity but unless they believe you,
they still might jump without that parachute because they couldn't see
what you know.
Regards,
Snow
Barry OGrady
>On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 14:16:35 +1100, Barry OGrady
><god_fre...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 20:53:48 -0500, For Real <nospam-...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 12:08:36 +1100, Barry OGrady
>>><god_fre...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 04:08:00 GMT, Reality Check <nospam-...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:38:38 +1100, Barry OGrady
>>>>><god_fre...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Does your ministry say why God created those diseases?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Barry
>>>>
>>>>>All sickness and diseases come from the Devil.
>>>>
>>>>Does your ministry say why God created diseases via the Devil?
>>>
>>>I'm sorry God that so many people are pointing the finger at you.
>>
>>So your ministry tries to deflect blame from God?
>
>There's no point having a free choice to love or not.
You may be right but it would be best if God behaved in such a way
that everybody desired to love him.
>>>>>When Jesus prayed for the sick and afflicted, he commanded devils to leave.
>>>>
>>>>Modern medicine has shown that disease is not caused by devils.
>>>
>>>Modern medicine doesn't address supernatural affliction
>>
>>Modern medicine deals with real things.
>>
>>>- the opposite
>>>of divine healing. Too many people are claiming to have received
>>>divine healing.
>>
>>People claim all sorts of things but we do know devils don't cause
>>disease.
>>
>>>>>Satan has the power to destroy flesh and blood thanks to Adam and Eve.
>>>>
>>>>Does your ministry say why God created Adam and Eve that way?
>>>
>>>God created Adam and Eve with free will and they chose wrong.
>>
>>Did God learn from that or was God so embarrassed that he took it
>>out on all of creation?
>
>I take it that God should have just created people that didn't have
>any opportunity whatsoever to prove their genuine love for him.
God needs to learn to be lovable and that love can't be commanded.
I take it God is incapable of learning.
>>>You exercise your free will and free choice everyday.
>>
>>Some people can't choose to overcome their God given desires.
>>
>>>You can do and say whatever your heart desires.
>>
>>My heart desires to pump blood. My brain gives me desires which
>>are not always for the best.
>
>At least you have an idea of what's best for you and what isn't and
>live your life accordingly.
Can we blame God for giving us desires we can't overcome?
>>Does God accept responsibility for desires which we can't control?
>
>God accepts responsibility for creating the human race which is why he
>gave us Jesus.
Jesus seems unable to overcome God's incompetence. Do you see
that as being part of God's desire to play cruel games with us or is
it part of God's incompetence?
>Of course, this is all bologna to you anyway. So your
>only option is to live the best life that you can and try to be happy
>as long as you can.
You too.
>>Why did God create us as just another mammal with the same
>>limitations as other mammals?
>
>Speak for yourself.
Do you have any thoughts on why God created us as just
another mammal with the same limitations as other mammals
rather than creating us completely separate from other animals?
>>>God for it!
>>
>>What does that mean?
>
>Live the best life that you can and try to be happy as long as you
>can.
What did you mean to write?
Debra
> On Nov 27, 6:56 am, For Real <nospam-webex...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 09:03:14 -0700, Libertarius
>
> > >===>So, your "omniscient", "all-knowing" deity had no idea what
> > >"Lucifer" would turn out to be
> > >when he created "Lucifer in the divine nature"???
>
> > wanted to be able to trust in them. Looking into their future wouldn't
> > be an act of trust.
>
> > >You guys are so funny in your total lack of
> > >reason and logical thinking. -- L.
>
> > If you're a reasonable and logical thinking person, then why aren't
> > you standing out of the crowd and doing more for humanity when you
> > could be helping others with your reasoning and logical thinking?
>
> unsupported by scriptures. �You can't connect Lucifer and Satan as
> one. �You can't show scriptures that say the "sons of Elohim" are
> angels/messengers and you can't show in scriptures anything that
> supports all the fiction your putting out here to a non believer and I
> have to question why?
>
> If you can't put up, shut up.
>
> Regards,
>
> Snow
>
> But what is liberty without wisdom, and without virtue? It is the
> greatest of all possible evils; for it is folly, vice, and madness,
> without tuition or restraint.
>
> - Show quoted text -
What does history say about the name "Lucifer" being added to the
Tanakh?
Debra
:) An amazing thought
pjmu...@sbcglobal.net
> Something that I had not considered. I would never have thought
> honestly that our Father in heaven created evil and this is confusing
> to me.
>
> besides Me. I gird you, though you have not known Me,
> Isa 45:6 so that they know from the rising of the sun to its setting
> Isa 45:7 forming light and creating darkness, making peace and
> creating evil. I, יהוה, do all these.’
> righteousness. Let the earth open, let them bring forth deliverance,
> Isa 45:9 “Woe to him who strives with his Maker! (a potsherd with the
> potsherds of the earth). Does clay say to him who forms it, ‘What are
> you making?’ Or your handiwork say, ‘He has no hands’?
If this is the G-D you follow, why don't you just shoot yourself in
the head and get it over with? This is a dark void that was filled by
the Incarnation. I pity those for whom it will never be filled.
Debra
>
> - Show quoted text -
Isaiah 45:7 says...I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace
AND CREATE EVIL: I the L-RD do all these things.
Just which G-d do you propose you are "the Messiah" for?
Debra
Mistylein
"Debra" <the2gol...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:534a88eb-35fb-4846...@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 4, 8:53 pm, pjmutn...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
> On Nov 21, 2:38 pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Something that I had not considered. I would never have thought
> > honestly that our Father in heaven created evil and this is confusing
> > to me.
>
> > besides Me. I gird you, though you have not known Me,
> > Isa 45:6 so that they know from the rising of the sun to its setting
> > Isa 45:7 forming light and creating darkness, making peace and
> > Isa 45:8 "Rain down, O heavens, from above, and let clouds pour down
> > righteousness. Let the earth open, let them bring forth deliverance,
> > Isa 45:9 "Woe to him who strives with his Maker! (a potsherd with the
> > potsherds of the earth). Does clay say to him who forms it, 'What are
> > you making?' Or your handiwork say, 'He has no hands'?
>
> If this is the G-D you follow, why don't you just shoot yourself in
> the head and get it over with? This is a dark void that was filled by
> the Incarnation. I pity those for whom it will never be filled.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Isaiah 45:7 says...I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace
AND CREATE EVIL: I the L-RD do all these things.
Just which G-d do you propose you are "the Messiah" for?
Do not rely on every word of only one Version of the Bible.
It is a glitch in your KJV and some other Versions.
it is what is called a tranlation error.
M,
Debra
Debra
> "Debra" <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
I am speaking directly to somebody who claimed to be a Messiah on
another thread.
Debra
Linda Lee
Evil originated in the 'covering cherub' whom God created as perfect
i.e. good.
Ezek. 28:15 "Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast
created, till iniquity was found in thee."
Isa. 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and
create evil: I the LORD do all these things."
This means only that God creates evil occurrences in a person's life
in order to drive him back to God so that he will obtain eternal life
and avoid death of the spirit for his original sin. This is all
through the Hebrew Scriptures and was even done to the Jews, God's
chosen people. IOW, God's intention in creating what we perceive as
evil in our lives is for our ultimate good and our salvation.
guardian Snow
> Isa. 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and
> create evil: I the LORD do all these things."
>
> This means only that God creates evil occurrences in a person's life
> in order to drive him back to God so that he will obtain eternal life
> and avoid death of the spirit for his original sin. This is all
> through the Hebrew Scriptures and was even done to the Jews, God's
> chosen people. IOW, God's intention in creating what we perceive as
> evil in our lives is for our ultimate good and our salvation.
Now can you relate this to Paul? You make the connection here but will
you understand the "chosen vessel" and "stumbling block".
Linda Lee
>
> - Show quoted text -
You really should be careful of judging God. God's purpose for
creating evil in our lives is to lead us back to Him so we might avoid
death of the spirit, the judgment for our original sin. Self-contented
people don't tend to seek God, and that complacency is very dangerous.
We are here because we've been given the chance to choose to return to
God or to reject God again and suffer the judgment for that.
Linda Lee
> On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 23:10:14 -0500, For Real <nospam-webex...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 14:16:35 +1100, Barry OGrady
>
> >>On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 20:53:48 -0500, For Real <nospam-webex...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> >>>On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 12:08:36 +1100, Barry OGrady
>
> >>>>On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 04:08:00 GMT, Reality Check <nospam-webex...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> >>>>>On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:38:38 +1100, Barry OGrady
> >>>>><god_free_jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>Does your ministry say why God created those diseases?
>
> >>>>>>Barry
>
> >>>>>All sickness and diseases come from the Devil.
>
> >>>>Does your ministry say why God created diseases via the Devil?
>
> >>>I'm sorry God that so many people are pointing the finger at you.
>
> >>So your ministry tries to deflect blame from God?
>
> >There's no point having a free choice to love or not.
>
> You may be right but it would be best if God behaved in such a way
> that everybody desired to love him.
LOL. What makes you think you have what it takes to judge God when you
don't know the Scriptures, and you don't know God. ?? What unmitigated
gall.
Linda Lee
> On Nov 30, 3:12 pm, For Real <nospam-webex...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> > Live the best life that you can and try to be happy as long as you
> > can.
>
> See, this does nothing to prepare people for the fact that there will
> be hardships. Having יהוה in your life isn't really saying that your
> going to always be happy. To the contrary:
>
> Luk 21:12 “But before all this, they shall lay their hands on you and
> persecute you, delivering you up to the congregations and prisons, and
> be brought before sovereigns and rulers for My Name’s sake.
> Luk 21:16 “And you shall also be betrayed by parents and brothers and
> relatives and friends. And some of you shall be put to death.
> Luk 21:17 “And you shall be hated by all because of My Name.
>
> We should be ready to bear our cross for the sake of יהושע our
> Messiah. Nobody said this would be an easy life.
Actually, Yeshua` said it would be easy to follow him.
Matt. 11:29-30 Yeshua` says, "Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me;
for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your
souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."
If you had not left out Luke 21:15, you would know why he says being
yoked/joined with him is easy:
Luke 21:15 Yeshua` says, "For I will give you a mouth and wisdom,
which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist."
Do you care if certain people hate you for being a believer? I don't.
They can go to hell if that's what they desire; I'm not changing my
mind to please them.
Mat 10:28 "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to
kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul
and body in hell."
Gen. 15:1 "After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in
a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding
great reward."
Debra
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yeah...Chastisement...Drove me to G-d.
Debra
Linda Lee
> On Nov 26, 3:20 pm, For Real <nospam-webex...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> > >Lucifer is clearly identified as an Assyrian man. Please, don't think
> > >that because somebody told you otherwise that what the "masses" have
> > >been told is the truth.
>
> > If what you state is true about the translations of the KJV Bible, how
> > do know that the word, man, could have been a replacement for another
> > word?
>
> Unlike the Christian church, the Hebrews did a much better job a
> keeping originals and passing them on to ensure that the very jot of
> every word was preserved for us. All we have to do is check into the
> source, which I did.
>
> > The Bible cannot always be translated into literal expressions.
> > There are times when it euphemizes human beings in references to
> > Lucifer.
>
> The name "Lucifer" or "Morning Star" is only found in one spot in the
> entire bible, Isaiah 14 is it.
>
> > Look at Ezekiel 28. It mentions the prince of Tyrus. However,
> > in reading further, one discovers that it's actually speaking of
> > Lucifer.
>
> Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious
> stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the
> beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the
> carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes
> was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
>
> > Eze:28:13: Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God... Who
> > the prince of Tyrus? No, Lucifer, aka the Devil. Only Lucifer, Adam
> > and Eve were in the Garden of Eden.
>
> It makes no connection between the two and what your failing to
> recognize is that Lucifer is "Son of the Dawn". Satan is not a "son"
> of anything being a created being.
>
> > Only a sincere and honest heart before Jehovah God will find the true
> > understanding of the Bible. Don't be fooled by how the Bible is
> > written or how people might have 'controlled' the way it was written.
> > The KJV Bible is written as God has permitted and allowed. His
> > thoughts are higher than our thoughts.
>
> The KJV Bible is written how men created it and while I recognize his
> finger in the work gladly, I can also point out that the topic must be
> addressed first by us humbling ourselves before the creator. I
> respect that you have a different view because people have told you
> one and the same but they are wrong, Lucifer is identified as a man
> and given mortal status of being from the North, Assyria. It would
> make no sense to use the name once and say, "Is this the man".
>
> Regards,
>
> Snow
>
> To realize that you do not understand is a virtue; Not to realize that
> you do not understand is a defect.
> Lao Tzu
Biblically, both "stars" and "morning stars" symbolize angels. The
Hebrew name of the fallen angel 'Lucifer', 'heylel', is defined as
"morning star". In Isa. 14:13 (see below), the "stars of God" are the
angels of God over whom Lucifer exalted himself causing some of them
to become fallen angels. In Rev. 12:4-7, where they are the "stars" of
the dragon/Satan, 'stars' symbolize fallen angels.
In Job 1:6, the "sons of God" and Satan present themselves before God
in Heaven. In addition, Job 38:6-7 says of the angels in the beginning
when God created the Earth, "the morning stars sang together, and all
the sons of God shouted for joy". Job 38:7 is a reference to the
angels' joy when God created the Earth. Again, the angels are called
"morning stars", just as "Lucifer" is.
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the
morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the
nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into
heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also
upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Linda Lee
wrote:
> For Real wrote:
> > On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 14:38:58 -0800 (PST), guardian Snow
> > <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
>
> >>Something that I had not considered. I would never have thought
> >>honestly that our Father in heaven created evil and this is confusing
> >>to me.
>
> >>Isa 45:5 'I am ????, and there is none else - there is no Elohim
> >>besides Me. I gird you, though you have not known Me,
> >>Isa 45:6 so that they know from the rising of the sun to its setting
> >>that there is none but Me. I am ????, and there is none else,
> >>Isa 45:7 forming light and creating darkness, making peace and
> >>creating evil. I, ????, do all these.'
> >>Isa 45:8 "Rain down, O heavens, from above, and let clouds pour down
> >>righteousness. Let the earth open, let them bring forth deliverance,
> >>and let righteousness spring up together. I, ????, have created it.
> >>Isa 45:9 "Woe to him who strives with his Maker! (a potsherd with the
> >>potsherds of the earth). Does clay say to him who forms it, 'What are
> >>you making?' Or your handiwork say, 'He has no hands'?
>
> >>block:
>
> >>Mat 18:7 "Woe to the world because of stumbling-blocks! For it is
> >>necessary that stumbling-blocks come, but woe to that man by whom the
> >>stumbling-block comes!
>
> >>Luk 17:1 And He said to the taught ones, "It is inevitable that
> >>stumbling-blocks should come, but woe to him through whom they come!
>
> >>Rev 2:14 "But I hold a few matters against you, because you have there
> >>those who adhere to the teaching of Bil?am, who taught Balaq to put a
> >>stumbling-block before the children of Yisra'?l, to eat food offered
> >>to idols, and to commit whoring.
>
> >>We find that these "stumbling blocks" are purposed so that we must
> >>seek him out because he has hidden his face from us because of our
> >>wickedness.
>
> >>Regards,
> >>Snow
>
> >>Be the chief but never the lord.
> >>Lao Tzu
>
> > God creates evil for evil, not evil for good. Hell is evil not good.
> > God created Lucifer in the divine nature. Lucifer, out of his own free
> > will, chose to be evil.
>
> ===>So, your "omniscient", "all-knowing" deity had no idea what
> "Lucifer" would turn out to be
> when he created "Lucifer in the divine nature"???
>
> reason and logical thinking. -- L.
>
> Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Where does it say in the Bible that God knows everything angels would
do? I believe that is applicable only to human behaviour. God knows
the heart of man, etc.
1Sa 16:7 "But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance,
or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the
LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward
appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart." This is in relation
to man, not angels. Your own logic has huge holes in it.
Linda Lee
God certainly allowed people, including Paul, to persecute believers.
We have never discussed this, so I don't know what you've said about
this or why you're addressing the "chosen vessel" and "stumbling
block" issue with me.
Are you saying you now believe Paul's three differing versions of
God's alleged appearance to him?
Yeshua` is the 'stumbling stone' of Israel.
In reference to "Immanuel" (meaning God with us), Isaiah continues in
Isa. 8:13-14, "Sanctify the Lord of hosts himself; and let him be your
fear, and let him be your dread. And he shall be for a sanctuary; but
for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses
of Israel".
The word here translated 'stone' - Heb. 68 - means to build; a stone,
and is from Heb. 1129 meaning literally and figuratively to obtain
children, to build, and set up.
The word here translated 'stumbling' - Heb. 5063 - is defined as a
trip (of the foot); fig. an infliction (of disease):--plague,
stumbling.
The word here translated 'rock' - Heb 6697 - in part is defined as
"(mighty) God (one), rock".
The word here translated 'offence' - Heb. 4383 - is defined as a
stumbling-block, literally or figuratively obstacle, enticement -
specifically an idol.
Israel's "stone of stumbling" and "rock of offence" would be their
view of the mighty God as an idol. The Jews have always rejected God's
incarnation in the flesh as Yeshua` the Messiah because they perceived
acceptance of God's incarnation as idol worship.
Linda Lee
>
> - Show quoted text -
How many people, when things are going great, turn to God? Not many.
How many people, when things are getting dangerous or disastrous, turn
to God? Many.
Linda Lee
P.S. I see now you commented on this at the beginning of the thread,
posting these verses:
Mat 18:7 “Woe to the world because of stumbling-blocks! For it is
necessary that stumbling-blocks come, but woe to that man by whom the
stumbling-block comes!
Luke 17:1 And He said to the taught ones, “It is inevitable that
stumbling-blocks should come, but woe to him through whom they come!
Rev. 2:14 “But I hold a few matters against you, because you have
there those who adhere to the teaching of Bilʽam, who taught Balaq to
put a stumbling-block before the children of Yisra’ĕl, to eat food
offered to idols, and to commit whoring.
Yes, I agree the verse in Rev. 2:14 certainly must be talking of
Paul's advice that knowledgable Gentiles were at liberty to eat things
sacrificed to idols, whereas James and the elders determined Gentiles
must refrain from doing so. However, I don't believe that God appeared
to Paul to appoint him as a chosen vessel in order to be a stumbling
block; Paul says the reason was much different. Again, although God
allowed Paul to persecute believers and infiltrate the apostles,
allowing something and designing something are two different things.
Personally, I believe Satan guided Paul, and God constrained him and
allowed the infiltration to stop his murderous persecution.
James pronounces this concerning the Gentile believers:
Act 15:19 - "Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which
from among the Gentiles are turned to God". And
Acts 15:20 - "But that we write unto them, that they abstain from
pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled,
and from blood."
Paul writes that knowledgable Gentiles are at "liberty" to eat things
sacrificed to idols:
1Co 8:4 "As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are
offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in
the world, and that there is none other God but one...".
1Co 8:7 "Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some
with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered
unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
1Co 8:8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat,
are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.
1Co 8:9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become
a stumblingblock to them that are weak."
Debra
>
> - Show quoted text -
Here is an interesting one in the Book of Judges...
Judges 5:20...says...They fought from heaven; the stars in their
courses fought against Sisera.
Debra
Debra
>
> - Show quoted text -
And I have a feeling not many went through what I experienced...How
many people so scared to death that it drives them to G-d...I saw into
the spriritual world for a couple of months...and it changed me for
life...and I don't have explanations for all of it still and
yet...Seeing a human move in a nonhuman fashion...defying the laws of
gravity...and so many other things...It was such a big picture thing
after it brought me to repentance and after I was caused to cry out
to
G-d to show me if I was followig any false teaching...This was not
your run of the mill...I am having some hard life
circumstances...Wonder if anybody else has had a spiritual
chastising??
Debra
guardian Snow
> > Now can you relate this to Paul? You make the connection here but will
> > you understand the "chosen vessel" and "stumbling block".
>
> God certainly allowed people, including Paul, to persecute believers.
> We have never discussed this, so I don't know what you've said about
> this or why you're addressing the "chosen vessel" and "stumbling
> block" issue with me.
>
> Are you saying you now believe Paul's three differing versions of
> God's alleged appearance to him?
Imagine that your living in Occupied Israel and you just wrote a
gospel account of יהושע and now you see a Roman false prophet going
around with great influence, wielding the authority of the occupation
army. How would you go about putting out a warning to your friends
and the church of believers in a way that if found... wouldn't be
destroyed?
When I read the book of Acts, it's not a flattering account of Paul..
It says Paul makes a lot of bold claims but it also reports on his
trials, his unrepentant false claims to Godship...
Act 14:11 And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up
their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down
to us in the likeness of men.
Act 14:12 And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius,
because he was the chief speaker.
Notice this...
Act 17:13 But when the Jews of Thessalonica had knowledge that the
word of God was preached of Paul at Berea,
Preached "of Paul"... not by Paul.
Act 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to
light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive
forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified
by faith that is in me.
Faith that is in ME.
Act 17:23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an
altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye
ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
Here he admits that he is declaring, "the unknown god".
Act 18:13 Saying, This fellow persuadeth men to worship God contrary
to the law.
Act 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they
call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers
They say he was a God and he did not rebuke them...
Act 28:6 Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen
down dead suddenly: but after they had looked a great while, and saw
no harm come to him, they changed their minds, and said that he was a
god.
Act 28:7 In the same quarters were possessions of the chief man of
the island, whose name was Publius; who received us, and lodged us
three days courteously.
Instead he "Lodged" with them and committed idolatry.
Without Luke's NT testimony of Paul, we would not have had the keys to
understanding that Paul was THE ANTICHRIST. Paul worked miracles by
the power of Satan to fool even the "elect".
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets,
and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were
possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
2Co 12:12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all
patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.
See how men worship the words of Paul... Paul says... and Abrams says,
"God said"...
Gal 1:24 And they glorified God in me.
Paul by Satan thought he was an angel of God..
Gal 4:14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor
rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.
He believed he had all the power to save men and forgive sin:
2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my
strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I
rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon
me.
He says the spirit made him wish he was accursed from Christ:
Rom 9:1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also
bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
Rom 9:2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my
heart.
Rom 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my
brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
What bold confessions and people are blinded to the truth because of
the wickedness of there heart and the desire to ignore the
Commandments for the sake of mens tradition.
I believe that Paul was giving us a warning and thats why he reports 3
different conversion stories.. Not that he believed them.. but so that
we could understand because otherwise... how would we have known for
certain?
Shalom my friend and my the hand of יהושע Messiah, the Son of Elohim
always touch your heart,
Snow
If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything. Let us
live so that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry.
Lord save us all from a hope tree that has lost the faculty of putting
out blossoms.
Mark Twain
guardian Snow
Linda Lee wrote:
> On Dec 8, 8:52 pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
> > On Dec 9, 12:44 pm, Linda Lee <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Isa. 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and
> > > create evil: I the LORD do all these things."
> >
> > > This means only that God creates evil occurrences in a person's life
> > > in order to drive him back to God so that he will obtain eternal life
> > > and avoid death of the spirit for his original sin. This is all
> > > through the Hebrew Scriptures and was even done to the Jews, God's
> > > chosen people. IOW, God's intention in creating what we perceive as
> > > evil in our lives is for our ultimate good and our salvation.
> >
> > Now can you relate this to Paul? You make the connection here but will
> > you understand the "chosen vessel" and "stumbling block".
>
> God certainly allowed people, including Paul, to persecute believers.
> We have never discussed this, so I don't know what you've said about
> this or why you're addressing the "chosen vessel" and "stumbling
> block" issue with me.
>
> Are you saying you now believe Paul's three differing versions of
> God's alleged appearance to him?
On Dec 9, 2:32 pm, Linda Lee <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
> > Now can you relate this to Paul? You make the connection here but will
> > you understand the "chosen vessel" and "stumbling block".
> God certainly allowed people, including Paul, to persecute believers.
> We have never discussed this, so I don't know what you've said about
> this or why you're addressing the "chosen vessel" and "stumbling
> block" issue with me.
> Are you saying you now believe Paul's three differing versions of
> God's alleged appearance to him?
Imagine that your living in Occupied Israel and you just wrote a
Notice this...
I believe that Luke was giving us a warning and thats why he reports 3
guardian Snow
> On Dec 8, 8:52 pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
>
> > On Dec 9, 12:44 pm, Linda Lee <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> > > Isa. 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and
> > > create evil: I the LORD do all these things."
>
> > > This means only that God creates evil occurrences in a person's life
> > > in order to drive him back to God so that he will obtain eternal life
> > > and avoid death of the spirit for his original sin. This is all
> > > through the Hebrew Scriptures and was even done to the Jews, God's
> > > chosen people. IOW, God's intention in creating what we perceive as
> > > evil in our lives is for our ultimate good and our salvation.
>
> > Now can you relate this to Paul? You make the connection here but will
> > you understand the "chosen vessel" and "stumbling block".
>
> God certainly allowed people, including Paul, to persecute believers.
> We have never discussed this, so I don't know what you've said about
> this or why you're addressing the "chosen vessel" and "stumbling
> block" issue with me.
>
> Are you saying you now believe Paul's three differing versions of
> God's alleged appearance to him?
Imagine that your living in Occupied Israel and you just wrote a
Barry OGrady
>
>"Debra" <the2gol...@aol.com> wrote in message
>> - Show quoted text -
If you want quoted text shown do it yourself.
>Isaiah 45:7 says...I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace
>AND CREATE EVIL: I the L-RD do all these things.
>
>Just which G-d do you propose you are "the Messiah" for?
What about the competition in the form of G_d, G*d, G+d?
You can group them by using G[-|_|*|+|o]d.
The idea of not writing God is a misunderstanding. It seems
that all the gods have a secret name and if you say the secret
name you can control the god.
>Do not rely on every word of only one Version of the Bible.
>It is a glitch in your KJV and some other Versions.
>it is what is called a tranlation error.
Seems G[-|_|*|+|o]d can't preserve his word, but it's very handy
to have different versions so you can choose what to reject.
>Debra
guardian Snow
> On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 03:03:01 -0600, "Mistylein" <yardhol...@charter.net> wrote:
>
> >"Debra" <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> If you want quoted text shown do it yourself.
>
> >Isaiah 45:7 says...I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace
> >AND CREATE EVIL: I the L-RD do all these things.
>
> >Just which G-d do you propose you are "the Messiah" for?
>
> What about the competition in the form of G_d, G*d, G+d?
> You can group them by using G[-|_|*|+|o]d.
>
> The idea of not writing God is a misunderstanding. It seems
> that all the gods have a secret name and if you say the secret
> name you can control the god.
>
> >Do not rely on every word of only one Version of the Bible.
> >It is a glitch in your KJV and some other Versions.
> >it is what is called a tranlation error.
>
> Seems G[-|_|*|+|o]d can't preserve his word, but it's very handy
> to have different versions so you can choose what to reject.
Personally, I prefer Elohim as apposed to the word God but I do
sometime omit the 'o' just out of reverence for his title and that he
is my set apart creator.
I do agree with you to a large extent because the the commandment says
is not to take his name in vain. To that end, God is not his name and
Christians are mistaken because they do not know this is his title in
a pagan terminology. It's almost funny that in order for Christians
to understand a majority of conversations dwell on pagan words to
describe the only set apart Elohim creator of the heavens and earth
יהוה Ěl Shaddai!
Shalom my friend,
Snow
I'm not afraid of death. It's the stake one puts up in order to play
the game of life. Only the mediocre are always at their best. Men
should only believe half of what women say. But which half?
Jean Giraudoux
pjmu...@sbcglobal.net
> Something that I had not considered. I would never have thought
> honestly that our Father in heaven created evil and this is confusing
> to me.
>
> besides Me. I gird you, though you have not known Me,
> Isa 45:6 so that they know from the rising of the sun to its setting
> Isa 45:7 forming light and creating darkness, making peace and
> Isa 45:8 “Rain down, O heavens, from above, and let clouds pour down
> righteousness. Let the earth open, let them bring forth deliverance,
> Isa 45:9 “Woe to him who strives with his Maker! (a potsherd with the
> potsherds of the earth). Does clay say to him who forms it, ‘What are
> you making?’ Or your handiwork say, ‘He has no hands’?
This LORD is a fraud, and this fraud is the biggest joke in history.
There is no LORD named JHVH, with or without ALHJM. The true name of
the LORD that Moses saw in the burning bush is Jehoshua: Jod He Vav
Shin Ayin.
The correct name is Jehoshua, Jod He Vav Shin Ayin, which is enough
like Jod He Vav He that Moses could have mistaken one for the other,
since he never knew the true identity of the LORD that he saw in the
burning bush. This is symbolized by the fact that he could only see
his backside. You can't identify someone, especially someone you
don't already know, from the back.
Linda Lee
> On Dec 8, 7:34 pm,LindaLee<lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 8, 9:33 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:
>
I have had a spiritual experience that caused me to realize I
shouldn't scoff at certain things, which happened soon after I'd
laughed at someone's personal account of a spiritual encounter in
something I'd read. Those spiritual experiences of yours were perhaps
either to teach you or heal you.
But I do know that epilepsy and other conditions affecting the brain
can cause hallucinations, so you might want to see a neurologist to
see if everything looks okay.
Also, is it possible someone may have drugged you back then? This is
an increasingly common occurrence nowadays (according to the local
news stations and according to battered women's shelters literature),
and is becoming very popular within abusive controlling relationships
because someone who has been drugged, but doesn't know it, is really
vulnerable and their behavior (or lack of self-control) is under
someone else's control. I think I noticed you saying that you recently
split with your husband (?). Perhaps you should have your blood tested
if you have this happen again. Speed and other drugs in overdosages
cause hallucinations and terror and psychotic episodes (not to mention
death by stroke, etc.), but pass through the body's system quickly and
are undetectable later. A mixture of drugs might slow you way down
first and then speed you up into a terror-stricken state. I also think
these may make you more aware of the spiritual world by making you
pray to God out of terror. I have known women whose ex-husbands/
husbands have drugged them.
Since you say these experiences have terrified you, I would check out
if you've been drugged by getting a blood test quick if it occurs
again. Spiritual experiences should not terrify, but should be
instructive or healing. The one 'scary' spiritual experience I had did
not scare me, although it should have, because I recognized right away
it happened because I'd scoffed at someone else's account of it
happening to them and didn't expect it to happen again; it was simply
instructive.
Don't let this go. If it happens again, get a blood test at the
emergency room immediately, and tell them you think you may have been
drugged. It sounds to me like you were drugged and started thinking
about God at the time because the drug overdose made you feel
terrified. Look up methamphetamine overdose on the internet and see if
it matches your symptoms from back then.
Yeshua` bless you and protect you, Debra :-)
Linda Lee
>
> - Show quoted text -
P.S. I'm not really keeping up with who believes what. If you don't
believe Yeshua` was God incarnate, then:
God bless you and protect you.
I don't think terrifying spiritual experiences are the norm, although
I've had several experiences that had to be spiritual because they
were impossible otherwise and one that should have been scary (but
wasn't because I 'got' what God was saying to me i.e. don't scoff at
what you do not know).
I have read that some have had terrifying visions when they were near
death, but that is all.
Maybe others will report if they've had any terrifying spiritual
experiences. Anybody?
pjmu...@sbcglobal.net
> I saw into
> the spriritual world for a couple of months...and it changed me for
> life...and I don't have explanations for all of it still
What do you mean by this? What did you perceive of the spiritual
world?
Linda Lee
>
> Men should only believe half of what women say. But which half?
Why would you post such a negative prejudical statement?
Do you want to get every female on the internet mad at you?
I can tell you that I personally have never lied to you nor to anyone
else on here.
I can also tell you from personal experience that some men lie a lot
and are well-known to be generally much more violent than men, if you
want to make this a contest.
Linda Lee
> On Dec 9, 2:32 pm,LindaLee<lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> > On Dec 8, 8:52 pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
>
>
> > > > Isa. 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and
> > > > create evil: I the LORD do all these things."
>
> > > > This means only that God creates evil occurrences in a person's life
> > > > in order to drive him back to God so that he will obtain eternal life
> > > > and avoid death of the spirit for his original sin. This is all
> > > > through the Hebrew Scriptures and was even done to the Jews, God's
> > > > chosen people. IOW, God's intention in creating what we perceive as
> > > > evil in our lives is for our ultimate good and our salvation.
>
> > > Now can you relate this to Paul? You make the connection here but will
> > > you understand the "chosen vessel" and "stumbling block".
>
> > God certainly allowed people, including Paul, to persecute believers.
> > We have never discussed this, so I don't know what you've said about
> > this or why you're addressing the "chosen vessel" and "stumbling
> > block" issue with me.
>
> > Are you saying you now believe Paul's three differing versions of
> > God's alleged appearance to him?
>
> Imagine that your living in Occupied Israel and you just wrote a
> gospel account of יהושע and now you see a Roman false prophet going
> around with great influence, wielding the authority of the occupation
> army. How would you go about putting out a warning to your friends
> and the church of believers in a way that if found... wouldn't be
> destroyed?
I believe John did this encoding thing with Revelation when he warned
of the man with the mark of the beast.
Luke was a Gentile, so he needn't have fear of a Roman, but he might
have had fear of a man he saw was taking over the movement if he were
already a believer before he met Paul. (Smith's Bible Dictionary does
say that the Gospel of Luke was written before Acts.) It appears he
was already a believer as there is no account of Paul converting him.
But it is feasible to me certainly that Luke was reporting honestly
what he saw when he was with Paul, whether it was flattering to Paul
or not. I don't think he feared Paul because he does contradict Paul's
accounts in Paul's other writings at times.
> When I read the book of Acts, it's not a flattering account of Paul..
> It says Paul makes a lot of bold claims but it also reports on his
> trials, his unrepentant false claims to Godship...
I agree. I think Luke wanted to write of the disputes between Paul and
the true apostles more than he wanted to laud Paul.
But he does take Paul's word for it when he wasn't an eyewitness to
certain events such as Paul's alleged appointment on the road to
Damascus.
>
> Act 14:11 And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up
> their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down
> to us in the likeness of men.
> Act 14:12 And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius,
> because he was the chief speaker.
But it then goes on to have them deny they were gods; apparently they
thought they were gods because they could do miracles. Of course,
Paul's claim that he being crafty, caught followers with guile (II
Cor. 12:16) might explain these alleged 'miracles'. This is also the
justification religious charlatans who fake healings have always used.
Act 14:11 And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up
their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down
to us in the likeness of men.
Act 14:12 And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius,
because he was the chief speaker.
Act 14:13 Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city,
brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done
sacrifice with the people.
Act 14:14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they
rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,
Act 14:15 And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men
of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn
from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth,
and the sea, and all things that are therein:
>
> Notice this...
>
> Act 17:13 But when the Jews of Thessalonica had knowledge that the
> word of God was preached of Paul at Berea,
>
> Preached "of Paul"... not by Paul.
Do you mean you think Paul's word was considered a god's word? The
Greek text shows the word used meant 'by' there.
> Act 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to
> light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive
> forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified
> by faith that is in me.
>
> Faith that is in ME.
It could be taken either way. The Greek text omits the words meaning
"that is" and translates simply "sanctified by faith in me". And the
Strong's shows that the word 'is' is not there in the Greek. That
pretty much proves it, huh?
Have you ever noticed this:
Paul reveals Christ did not send him to baptize saying in I Cor. 1:17,
“For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with
wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none
effect.”
Yet Yeshua` commanded his apostles to baptize people in his name,
saying in Matt. 28:19, “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations,
baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the
Holy Ghost” (Holy Spirit).
If Paul was really an apostle he should have been baptizing any and
all. And Paul goes on to say in 1Co 1:14-15 "I thank God that I
baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; Lest any should say that
I had baptized in mine own name." It sounds like he was being accused
of baptizing people in the name of Paul.
The fact that the sons of Sceva could not cast out demons in the name
Paul preached is also very suspect as those who cast out demons in the
name of Yeshua` did not even have to be believers.
Acts 19:8-9 continues with Paul relating how he preached for three
months to Ephesian disciples in Ephesus whom John had baptized, but
when many didn’t believe him he left separating the disciples who
believed in him from those who rejected him. After Paul left, some of
the Jews attempted to exorcise evil spirits from people using the name
that Paul had preached, and their exorcism failed miserably causing
the possessed person to attack them.
The name that Paul preached could not have been the name of Yeshua` as
people were not able to cast out evil spirits using the name he
preached.
The name that Paul preached could not have been the name of Yeshua`.
It had to have been the Gentile version of Yeshua`’s name, Iesous
Christos, because people who were not followers or disciples of
Yeshua` were able to successfully cast out evil spirits in the name of
Yeshua`.
The name that Paul preached could not have been the name of Yeshua`.
It had to have been the Gentile version of Yeshua`’s name, Iesous
Christos, because people who were not followers or disciples of
Yeshua` were able to successfully cast out evil spirits in the name of
Yeshua`.
Mark 9:38-40 says, “And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one
casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad
him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for
there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly
speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part.”
Luke 9:49-50 says the same, “And John answered and said, Master, we
saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he
followeth not with us. And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he
that is not against us is for us.” These unbelievers were able to cast
out demons in the name of Yeshua`. Those who did not follow Yeshua`
were still able to cast out devils using his name, but those who used
the name Paul preached and baptized people with were unable to cast
out devils using the name Paul preached.
Mark 9:38-40 says, “And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one
casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad
him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for
there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly
speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part.” Luke
9:49-50 says the same, “And John answered and said, Master, we saw one
casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he
followeth not with us. And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he
that is not against us is for us.” Those who did not follow Yeshua`
were still able to cast out devils using his name, but those who used
the name Paul preached and baptized people with were unable to cast
out devils using the name Paul preached.
And Luke writes the name of the Lord [Yeshua` ?] was magnified when
the sons could not cast out in the name [Iesous?] Paul preached. Act
19:17 "And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at
Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was
magnified."
Also notice this:
Acts 19:1-7 relates that Paul came upon certain disciples of Yeshua`,
and “He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye
believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether
there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye
baptized? And they said, Unto John’s baptism. Then said Paul, John
verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the
people, that they should believe on him which should come after him,
that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in
the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon
them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and
prophesied. And all the men were about twelve.”
John’s baptism was good enough for Yeshua`, but it was not good enough
for Paul who had to baptize them in the name he preached, which most
likely was the Greek name Iesous.
>
> Act 17:23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an
> altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye
> ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
>
> Here he admits that he is declaring, "the unknown god".
Himself? Or Iesous? Personally, I think he thought he was the chief
apostle of Iesous and did not equate Iesous with Yeshua` like people
do nowadays.
>
> Act 18:13 Saying, This fellow persuadeth men to worship God contrary
> to the law.
> Act 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they
> call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers
>
> They say he was a God and he did not rebuke them...
>
> Act 28:6 Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen
> down dead suddenly: but after they had looked a great while, and saw
> no harm come to him, they changed their minds, and said that he was a
> god.
I think Satan revived him.
> Act 28:7 In the same quarters were possessions of the chief man of
> the island, whose name was Publius; who received us, and lodged us
> three days courteously.
>
> Instead he "Lodged" with them and committed idolatry.
>
> Without Luke's NT testimony of Paul, we would not have had the keys to
> understanding that Paul was THE ANTICHRIST. Paul worked miracles by
> the power of Satan to fool even the "elect".
I agree Luke was doing us a service.
>
> Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets,
> and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were
> possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
>
> 2Co 12:12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all
> patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.
>
> See how men worship the words of Paul... Paul says... and Abrams says,
> "God said"...
>
> Gal 1:24 And they glorified God in me.
Very odd.
>
> Paul by Satan thought he was an angel of God..
>
> Gal 4:14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor
> rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.
See how it continues:
Gal 4:14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor
rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.
Gal 4:15 Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you
record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your
own eyes, and have given them to me.
Gal 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the
truth?
Would men who didn't worship someone "have plucked out your own eyes,
and have given them to" Paul? And he's missing this worship and wants
it back. These people who revere him have to have only read him
sporadically, a verse here and there.
>
> He believed he had all the power to save men and forgive sin:
Yeshua` said all the apostles could do that, although Paul wasn't one
of them.
>
> 2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my
> strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I
> rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon
> me.
>
> He says the spirit made him wish he was accursed from Christ:
>
> Rom 9:1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also
> bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
> Rom 9:2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my
> heart.
> Rom 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my
> brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
The word accursed here - Gk. 331 - means "a (religious) ban or
(concretely) excommunicated (thing or person)".
>
> What bold confessions and people are blinded to the truth because of
> the wickedness of there heart and the desire to ignore the
> Commandments for the sake of mens tradition.
>
> I believe that Luke was giving us a warning and thats why he reports 3
> different conversion stories.. Not that he believed them.. but so that
> we could understand because otherwise... how would we have known for
> certain?
>
> Shalom my friend and my the hand of יהושע
Yehoshua`/Joshua son of Nun?
Messiah, the Son of Elohim
> always touch your heart,
>
> Snow
>
> If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything. Let us
> live so that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry.
> Lord save us all from a hope tree that has lost the faculty of putting
> out blossoms.
> Mark Twain- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Peace.
guardian Snow
An excellent post. I just wanted to point one thing out..
Act 14:14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they
rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,
The apostles were not Barnabas and Paul. I point this out because
watch...
Act 15:2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and
disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and
certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and
elders about this question.
Note what the apostles said...
Act 14:15 And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men
of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn
from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth,
and the sea, and all things that are therein:
It's not what Paul said and Luke assumes you know the difference.
Shalom my friend,
Snow
Here is the test to find whether your mission on Earth is finished: if
you're alive, it isn't. In the United States Christmas has become the
rape of an idea.
Richard Bach
Linda Lee
> "For Real" <nospam-webex...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>
> news:h56sk3lljg45jrq6h...@4ax.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 12:08:36 +1100, Barry OGrady
> > <god_free_jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 04:08:00 GMT, Reality Check <nospam-webex...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> >>>On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:38:38 +1100, Barry OGrady
> >>><god_free_jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>Does your ministry say why God created those diseases?
>
> >>>>Barry
>
> >>>All sickness and diseases come from the Devil.
>
> >>Does your ministry say why God created diseases via the Devil?
>
> > I'm sorry God that so many people are pointing the finger at you.
>
> and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
>
> This like other place in the versions of the Bible is a translation
> Error.
>
> 7 I form the light and create darkness,
> I bring prosperity and create disaster;
> I, the LORD, do all these things. (NIV)
>
> So compare the differecs God did not say that the
>
> Bible translators said God said that
>
> M,
>
>
>
>
>
> >>>When Jesus prayed for the sick and afflicted, he commanded devils to leave.
>
> >>Modern medicine has shown that disease is not caused by devils.
>
> > Modern medicine doesn't address supernatural affliction - the opposite
> > of divine healing. Too many people are claiming to have received
> > divine healing.
>
> >>>Satan has the power to destroy flesh and blood thanks to Adam and Eve.
>
> >>Does your ministry say why God created Adam and Eve that way?
>
> > God created Adam and Eve with free will and they chose wrong. You
> > exercise your free will and free choice everyday. You can do and say
> > whatever your heart desires. God for it!> >>I do not represent atheists or atheism- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Actually, that isn't an error. The word here translated 'evil' is the
same word used for evil elsewhere, including in the term the tree of
knowledge of good and evil - Heb. 7451 - "bad or (as noun) evil
(naturally or morally)".
Natural evils would include disasters though.
And haven't you noticed that biblically God uses evil circumstances to
drive back to Him those who have fallen away?
Linda Lee
You erased it. What was an excellent post? The one about Paul or the
one where I objected that your quote denigrated all women (not even
half since you can't tell which half to trust)?
Linda Lee
I don't follow you on this. ??
Acts 15:2 is talking about circumcision according to Acts 15:3.
Acts 14:14-15 Luke calls Barnabas and Paul apostles and said they
objected to the sacrificial worship, apparently worship that was
directed towards them.
Linda Lee
If you're just going to let that stand, that half the time women are
liars ("Men
should only believe half of what women say. But which half?
Jean Giraudoux"), you're even going to tick me off.