Demons, Schism
guardian Snow
it doesn't get lost in the blur between the cut and paste of Mark T's
post that I typically skip past.
That is a good question and one I was hoping to answer today in a
different way. Keep in mind I'm glad that you continue to post to me
but you have a troubled spirit Mark and while I'd like to help you
identify it, until you answer my previous question honestly, I can't
speak to you directly.
Joh 7:43 So a division* came about among the people because of Him.
*schisma
skhis'-mah
From G4977; a split or gap (“schism”), literally or figuratively: -
division, rent, schism.
Schism
SCHISM, n. 1. In a general sense, division or separation; but
appropriately, a division or separation in a church or denomination of
christians, occasioned by diversity of opinions; breach of unity among
people of the same religious faith.
A better question is to identify what is a demon.
Act 5:3 But Kĕpha said, “Hananyah, why has Satan filled your heart to
lie to the Set-apart Spirit and keep back from the price of the land
for yourself?
A demon is a spirit that lies to us just as in this example from Acts
5. Hananyah was demonically possessed. A demon comes to create
division amongst us. Here is a fact, we are all descendants of Adam
and Eve and so we are all brothers. Yes, Mr. Tindall, even you are my
brother and while you may not identify yourself as such because of our
different beliefs, I have no reason to think any less of you. I'm sure
you'll continue to try but even your evil prayers are of no effect to
me.
Luk 21:10 Then He said to them, “Nation shall rise against nation, and
reign against reign.
One of the greatest demons that has possessed the world with a spirit
of a lie is the one I call, "Brother P" and it is the spirit of
labeling people for the sake of creating division. You call me a
"Yank" but really thats just a label you use to hide your fears and
the demon that hides in you.
Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name,
there am I in the midst of them.
Other labels people use and there are many.. and they are all equally
wrong don't just include nationality but race, religion and political
labels. They are all schisms to create division amongst us and this in
fact denies us our true power of working together as brother and
sisters. The demons want to create and will create schisms to pick us
off one at a time, to divide and conquer.
Luk 12:52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house
divided, three against two, and two against three.
We know this demon is going to grow in power because of the prophesies
by the Messiah but in the aspect of spiritual warfare, we can identify
this spirit and remove it from our midst with prayer and fasting.
Shalom,
Snow
Have you ever been hated or discriminated against? I have. I've been
protested and demonstrated against. Picket signs for my wicked rhymes,
Look at the times.
Eminem
Debra
Define Demons with the TANAKH.
Debra
guardian Snow
> Define Demons with the TANAKH.
1Sa 16:14 And the Spirit of יהוה turned aside from Sha’ul, and an evil
spirit from יהוה troubled him.
2Ch 18:22 “And now, see, יהוה has put a spirit of falsehood1 in the
mouth of these prophets of yours, and יהוה has spoken evil concerning
you.” Footnote: 12 Thess. 2:11.
Gen 3:1 And the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field
which יהוה Elohim had made, and he said to the woman, “Is it true that
Elohim has said, ‘Do not eat of every tree of the garden’?”
You of all people are not ignorant of demonic activity, so why would
you play games with me?
I can give you a dozens more references but I think you should address
your own experience rather then being ignorant.
Lev 17:7 “And let them no longer slaughter their slaughterings to
demons, after whom they whored. This is a law forever for them
throughout their generations.” ’
Shalom,
Snow
One sword keeps another in the sheath. He that cannot forgive others,
breaks the bridge over which he himself must pass if he would ever
reach heaven; for everyone has need to be forgiven.
George Herbert
Debra
I want you to take a look in some of the differences between the
TANAKH... and the NT thinking on evil spirits...
You sited Saul...Well...YHWH put that evil spirit on Saul himself...Is
that a teaching of the NT evil spirits in the modern churches.
And I now believe in my experience I had with that person...that YHWH
did do that perhaps in that way...Similar to Saul because of
disobedience???...I originally looked at it from a NT viewpoint but I
had to go back to the TANAKH view to see if it lines up or not.
I have also years ago had an experience with an old coworker who
professed an alternative lifestyle...standing face to face with me and
I got pushed hard by something you couldn't see...but I stood
firm...Knew it was evil...that person used to make weird gutteral
noises...and when I and a coworker asked her why...she replied because
she could.
The weird thing about her...she could profess Jesus as Lord and "pass
the NT test"
and as in Job to test me.
You cited Micaiah...and YHWH sent the lying spirits to speak in the
mouths of 400 prophets...that is also in I Kings 18 I believe...I saw
that too...personally... Funny...got shown that verse when... I am not
joking...Many people said the same exact phrase to me...and the way I
stood up to the test was to trust YHWH and to take him as counsel with
his word... It was very strange like there was some sort of
orchestration to it.
Again...do people teach that YHWH sends spirits to cause people to
lie?? In the modern church do they teach that...Why is the TANAKH
concept different than the NT concept...did something change?
Like I said...I think you should really study the TANAKH and learn
those concepts by themselves...and then go to the NT...If YHWH does
not change...why a change in concepts?
Debra
Mark T
> I thought this post was particularly important
I didn't.
PLONK!
--
DISTINGUISHING FEATURES OF A CHRISTUS OBNOXIUM
... quoting from James Barr's book "Fundamentalism" on the three
distinguishing features of the Fundamentalist:
'Firstly, a fundamentalist has a very strong emphasis on the inerrancy of
the Bible, and believes in the absence from it of any sort of error.
Two, a strong hostility to modern theology and to the method, results and
implications of modern critical study of the Bible.
And three, an assurance that those who do not share their religious
viewpoint are not really true Christians at all.'
Peter Cameron "Heretic" (Doubleday; Sydney: 1994) p. 178
--
My Blog - MARK T - my thoughts on Christianity & links
http://www.blognow.com.au/strooth/
FUNDY FUNHOUSE -
http://fundamentalistfunhouse.blogspot.com/
- a resource on the current Fundamentalist Dark Age and Christian
fundamentalism.
My Soundclick Page - download my original songs in mp3 format
http://www.soundclick.com/marktindall
Linda Lee
Over the ages, it was common belief that evil spirits were either the
fallen angels or the spirits of dead wicked men. They were both.
Some of these demons/devils received worship as 'other gods'.
Deut. 32:17 says, “They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods
whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers
feared not.”
The word here translated ‘devils’ – Heb. 7700 – ‘shade’ – means “a
daemon (as malignant)”.
Webster's New World Third Coll. Dictionary defines ‘demon’ as
meaning: 1.) DAEMON - senses 1 & 2 [see below]. 2. ) a devil; evil
spirit. 3.) a person or thing regarded as evil, cruel, etc. 4.a.) a
person who has great energy or skill. b.) an enthusiast or devotee.
Webster’s New World Third Coll. Dictionary defines ‘daemon’ as
meaning: 1.) Greek mythology – any of the secondary divinities
ranking between the gods and men. 2.) a guardian spirit, inspiring or
inner spirit. 3.) DEMON - sense 2 [“a devil; evil spirit” – see
above].
Demon can be used in a good or bad sense, depending upon the religious
basis. The pagan Greeks considered daemons/demons as good or divine
intermediaries between their ‘gods’ and men, but the Scriptures
identify them as evil and as the ‘other gods’ of the pagans.
Deut. 32:17 equates them with ‘other gods’ (‘gods’ other than the LORD
God) to whom the pagans offered sacrificial worship. Therefore, a
demon as an “inner spirit” would represent demon possession
biblically.
Lev. 17:7 says, “And they shall no more offer their sacrifices unto
devils, after whom they have gone a whoring”.
The same word translated “devils” in Lev. 17:7 is translated “satyr”
in Isaiah 34:14, which says, “The wild beasts of the desert shall also
meet with the wild beasts of the island, and the satyr shall cry to
his fellow; the screech owl also shall rest there, and find for
herself a place of rest”.
The word here translated ‘screech owl’ – Heb. 3917 – ‘liyliyth’ (known
in apocryphal Jewish texts as a demon called Lilith) – is defined “a
night spectre”. A ‘spectre’ (or ‘specter’) is defined by Webster’s New
World Third Coll. Dictionary as “a ghost; apparition” [i.e. a spirit/
devil] and “any object of fear or dread”.
The word translated “devils” in Lev. 17:7 and “satyr” in Isa. 34:14 is
analogous to a Roman deity. The word ‘devils’ and ‘satyr’ – Heb. 8163
– is defined “shaggy; as noun, a he goat; by analogy a faun”; from
Heb. 8175 – meaning “a primitive root; to storm; by implication to
shiver, i.e., fear”.
A ‘faun’ is defined by Webster’s New World Third Coll. Dictionary as
“any of a class of minor Roman deities, usually represented as having
the body of a man, but the horns, pointed ears, tail and hind legs of
a goat: see also SATYR”. Undoubtedly, this is the origin of the same
depiction of The Devil.
guardian Snow
You seem to think we are talking about different religions just
because OT and NT in bibles are separated. In Christian terms they
are all one set of scriptures and my disagreement with Paul is in no
way related to the Messiah Yeshua. It is forgivable to speak against
a man who rambled on so much his message can be twisted to mean
anything. Yeshua kept his points clear and his message one sided and
I have many written witnesses to his message of forgiveness. That
seems to be the very problem you have in that you are unforgiving.
You spoke nothing about demons and only about your objection to the
NT, which I don't care about. Thats not my business, it's yours, let
it rest.
As to; do people teach that YHWH sends spirits to cause people to
lie??
Yes, they do because Christian ministers use OT books in sermons also
and thats the part you glance over.
Shalom,
Snow
I am proud of the fact that I never invented weapons to kill.
Thomas A. Edison (Inventor of the "Westinghouse" current Electric
Chair)
If someday they say of me that in my work I have contributed something
to the welfare and happiness of my fellow man, I shall be satisfied.
George Westinghouse
guardian Snow
Great post. Can't argue with a word your saying;)
Shalom,
Snow
Let the future tell the truth, and evaluate each one according to his
work and accomplishments. The present is theirs; the future, for which
I have really worked, is mine.
Nikola Tesla
Linda Lee
Snow,
So you believe that evil spirits are the fallen angels and/or the
spirits of dead wicked men?
It is sort of ironic that people believe demons/devils are so *weird*,
when they're no weirder than human beings, disembodied though they may
be.
guardian Snow
> > I thought this post was particularly important
>
> I didn't.
>
> PLONK!
The only thing I can tell you serve is yourself. From what I've seen
your a humanist and you think of yourself as a God. I'd like you to
stop being a coward and just tell me outright.. not in a cut and
paste, what your statement of faith is.
Shalom,
Snow
If we all worked on the assumption that what is accepted as true is
really true, there would be little hope of advance.
Orville Wright
Mark T
>> > I thought this post was particularly important
>> I didn't.
>> PLONK!
>
> The only thing I can tell you is serve yourself.
"Serve Yourself" - John Lennon
You say you found Jesus. Christ!
He's the only one
...
Well there's somethin' missing in this God Almighty stew
.....
You got to serve yourself
nobody gonna do for you
...
Well you may believe in devils and you may believe in laws
But if you don't go out and serve yourself, la, ain't no room service here
It's still the same old story
A bloody Holy War
I fight for love and glory
Ain't gonna study war no more
I fight for God and country
We're gonna set you free
or put you back in the Stone Age
If you won't be like me - y'get it?
...
'But Christ, you're gonna have to serve yourself and that's all there is to
it.
So get right back here it's in the bloody fridge. God, when I was a kid.
Didn't have stuff like this, TV-fuckin' dinners and all that crap.
You fuckin' kids (are) all the fuckin' same! Want a fuckin' car now...
Lucky to have a pair of shoes!'
...
Ain't nobody gonna do for you ('that's right, la, you better get that
straight
in your fuckin' head')
You gotta serve yourself ('you know that, who else is gonna do it for you,
it ain't me, kid, I tell you that')
Well, you may believe in Jesus, and you may believe in Marx
And you may believe in Marks and Spencer's and you maybe believe in bloody
Woolworths
But there's something missing in this whole bloody stew
...
If you won't be like me, you know, get down on your knees and pray
....
guardian Snow
Thats all fine and I give John Lennon credit for at least having the
kohona's to tell the world what he believes but what do you believe.
Spare me the line about how your Christian because, anybody thats read
two words you posted, knows thats a lie.
Shalom,
Snow
Be courageous. I have seen many depressions in business. Always
America has emerged from these stronger and more prosperous. Be brave
as your fathers before you. Have faith! Go forward!
Thomas A. Edison
Mark T
Er ... WHAT are you guarding??? .... Your stupidity????
--
DISTINGUISHING FEATURES OF A CHRISTUS OBNOXIUM
... quoting from James Barr's book "Fundamentalism" on the three
distinguishing features of the Fundamentalist:
'Firstly, a fundamentalist has a very strong emphasis on the inerrancy of
the Bible, and believes in the absence from it of any sort of error.
Two, a strong hostility to modern theology and to the method, results and
implications of modern critical study of the Bible.
And three, an assurance that those who do not share their religious
viewpoint are not really true Christians at all.'
Peter Cameron "Heretic" (Doubleday; Sydney: 1994) p. 178
--
guardian Snow
> "guardian Snow" <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
Psa 19:7 The Torah of יהוה is perfect, bringing back the being; The
witness of יהוה is trustworthy, making wise the simple;
Psa 19:8 The orders of יהוה are straight, rejoicing the heart; The
command of יהוה is clear, enlightening the eyes;
Psa 19:9 The fear of יהוה is clean, standing forever; The right-
rulings of יהוה are true, They are righteous altogether,
Psa 19:10 More desirable than gold, Than much fine gold; And sweeter
than honey and the honeycomb.
> Er ... WHAT are you guarding??? .... Your stupidity????
Psa 19:11 Also, Your servant is warned by them, In guarding them there
is great reward.
So, what are you guarding that your to cowardly to just make a
statement of your faith?
Shalom,
Snow
How is it they live in such harmony the billions of stars - when most
men can barely go a minute without declaring war in their minds about
someone they know.
Saint Thomas Aquinas
Linda Lee
Mark isn't really sure of what he believes, except what **God can't**
do, according to the gospel of Mark T.
You've chosen an interesting nic for yourself. See the verse you cited
(below in the KJV), and notice that the word 'keeping' (or guarding)
is Heb. 8104.
Psa 19:11 Moreover1571 by them is thy servant5650 warned:2094 and in
keeping8104 of them there is great7227 reward.6118
Heb. 8104 is the root form of the word translated below as 'watches'.
Ps. 63:6 says of God, “I remember thee upon my bed, and meditate on
thee in the night watches.” He is remembering and thinking of God
while ‘watching’ i.e. lying on his bed, awake, and in stillness.
Ps. 119:146-148 says, “I cried unto thee; save me, and I shall keep
thy testimonies …I hoped in thy word. Mine eyes prevent the night
watches, that I might meditate in thy word.” His “eyes prevent the …
watches” because he has fallen asleep, being unable to keep awake so
that he can watch and meditate “in thy word” – “the Word” – Yeshua`.
The word translated in both of these Scriptures as ‘watches’ – Heb.
821 – means a night watch. In its root form – Heb. 8104 – it means
properly to hedge about (as with thorns), i.e., guard; generally to
protect, attend to, etc.
Laying in stillness and ‘watching’ for God surrounds us with
protection.
Here Heb. 8104 is translated "wait": Prov. 8:34-35 "Blessed is the
man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, ***waiting*** at the
posts of my doors. For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain
favor of the LORD."
Yeshua` on the subject of watching:
In Rev. 3:1-3 the Messiah says to the people in a church in Sardis, “…
I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art
dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are
ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast,
and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as
a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.”
Yeshua` is warning those in this church that they could have eternal
life (“thou hast a name that thou livest”), but they are in danger of
death because they refuse to repent and watch (“If …thou shalt not
watch”). They are to repent of not watching and begin watching in
prayer if they want to live eternally. If they do not repent and begin
praying in that manner, their living name (their immortal spirit) will
die.
In Mark 13:33, the Messiah tells them to pay attention to his warning,
saying, “Take ye heed, watch and pray”.
In this instance, the word translated ‘watch’ – Gk. 69 – means to be
sleepless, i.e. keep awake. It is from two words, one a negative
particle (meaning ‘not’) and the other – Gk. 5258 – is defined as
“sleep, i.e. (figuratively) spiritual torpor” [stupor]; and is
“perhaps akin” to Heb. 5259 indicating a specifically covertly
[hidden] and especially inferior position or condition.
Those who ‘watch’, as the Messiah directs us to do, will not be in an
inferior condition of spiritual stupor, which remains hidden from
those in that state. To neglect to watch keeps you in a condition of
spiritual stupor, a sleep that consigns your spirit to death and
nonexistence.
Watch in stillness in the name of Yeshua` to be literally roused from
death and avoid the second death of the soul, which is the
nonexistence caused by the death of the spirit.
There's lots more from Yeshua` on watching, but I just thought you
might find this interesting.
guardian Snow
You know, I find it interesting that of all the people here, we don't
really consider ourselves to be "Christian", but we love Yeshua and we
stand by guarding his words and we treasure them. It's my
inspiration, Psalm 19. It means the a lot that you totally understood
why I have taken this name for myself.
While I believe it is a given we can't "keep" the entire law, we can
guard his truth and write it on our hearts.
Deu 4:9 “Only, guard yourself, and guard your life diligently, lest
you forget the Words your eyes have seen, and lest they turn aside
from your heart all the days of your life. And you shall make them
known to your children and your grandchildren.
It's one of the reasons I've enjoyed this version of scriptures so
much.
That and I enjoy seeing the creators name יהוה, in it's original
Hebrew writing. The title lord gets used for all sorts of things and
doesn't distinguish the creator.
Shalom,
Snow
Law; an ordinance of reason for the common good, made by him who has
care of the community.
Saint Thomas Aquinas
Linda Lee
I would consider myself Christian IF that didn't always mean a 'Paul-
worshipper who doesn't much care about the Saviour and what he
taught'.
My son suggested I call myself a 'non-denominational Messianic' like
he does. It seems the only solution. Messianic would be shorter, I
guess. So I am a Messianic, someone who believes God came in the flesh
as Yeshua` the Messiah to act as our Saviour and who developed his own
ministry and chose his own apostles prior to his death and
resurrection and said "It is finished" when he left the flesh behind.
Mark T
> > Er ... WHAT are you guarding??? .... Your stupidity????
...
> Snow
Oh, a snow job.
--
"I believe that the Goths spoke like that ... and if God wished us to speak
through our backsides we should speak like that too." - Rabelais (Gargantua
& Pantagruel)
Mark T
>> Er ... WHAT are you guarding??? .... Your stupidity????
...
> In guarding them there is great reward.
A distinguishing feature of the Fundamentalist is "an assurance that those
who do not share their religious viewpoint are not really true Christians at
all."
Therefore, according to guardian Snore ...er ... Snow, if a Christian does
not believe exactly as he / she / it believes then that person is not a
"Trew Kristyun".
Guardian Snow is an ignorant little person.
--
A Trew Kristyun is a deranged individual living in the current
Fundamentalist Dark Age who believes:
- The One God Yahweh is really three gods.
- Jesus, a finite Jew from Nazareth, is the infinite One God Yahweh
- A human sacrifice was required by God because God needs blood, gore and
guts in order to forgive sins.
- The Bible, a collection of fallible ancient Near Eastern books / letters /
myths, is "God's word" and inerrant
guardian Snow
> I would consider myself Christian IF that didn't always mean a 'Paul-
> worshipper who doesn't much care about the Saviour and what he
> taught'.
>
> My son suggested I call myself a 'non-denominational Messianic' like
> he does. It seems the only solution. Messianic would be shorter, I
> guess. So I am a Messianic, someone who believes God came in the flesh
> as Yeshua` the Messiah to act as our Saviour and who developed his own
> ministry and chose his own apostles prior to his death and
> resurrection and said "It is finished" when he left the flesh behind.
I consider you to be very "Christian" in the kindest of ways that you
represent what is good and true about the faith and the words of
Messiah Yeshua. May you always prevail in his truth.
Shalom,
Snow
The memories of men are too frail a thread to hang history from.
John Still
Qadosh Stephanos
<snowp...@eck.net.au> wrote:
>I consider you to be very "Christian" in the kindest of ways that you
>represent what is good and true about the faith and the words of
>Messiah Yeshua. May you always prevail in his truth.
Oh my God! Linda is "Christian"! I'm not talking to Linda anymore. ;-)
Qadosh Stephanos
<lindag...@juno.com> wrote:
>I would consider myself Christian IF that didn't always mean a 'Paul-
>worshipper who doesn't much care about the Saviour and what he
>taught'.
>
>My son suggested I call myself a 'non-denominational Messianic' like
>he does. It seems the only solution. Messianic would be shorter, I
>guess. So I am a Messianic, someone who believes God came in the flesh
>as Yeshua` the Messiah to act as our Saviour and who developed his own
>ministry and chose his own apostles prior to his death and
It is a bit a trial trying to explain who are the people of God.
The people back than were Messianic tribes of Judah. Separation.
The 10 lost tribes of Israel aren't found in the state of Israel.
Linda Lee
wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 04:13:03 -0800 (PST), Linda Lee
>
Qadosh,
Since the ten tribes were scattered and assimilated into other
cultures, none of us know who the ten tribes are; they could be you or
me or anyone.
I've decided I could be 'labeled' a Messianic Christian (since Christ
simply means anointed) versus a Pauline Christian (which is most
everyone else claiming to be Christian, but who worship Paul over the
Messiah).
Debra
>
> - Show quoted text -
Interesting...so how about the quotes regarding the evil spirits sent
on Saul...and the Lying spirit put into the mouths of the 400 prophets
regarding Micaiah?
Debra
Linda Lee
What's to explain? God sent an evil spirit to influence and punish
Saul,
1Sa 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil
spirit from the LORD troubled him.
This was not unusual:
Psa 78:49 says "He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath,
and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them" (the
Israelites).
Jdg 9:23 Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men
of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with
Abimelech:
And the following is self-explanatory.
2Ch 18:20 Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the LORD,
and said, I will entice him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith?
2Ch 18:21 And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the
mouth of all his prophets. And the LORD said, Thou shalt entice him,
and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so.
2Ch 18:22 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in
the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against
thee.
1Ki 22:21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD,
and said, I will persuade him.
1Ki 22:22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will
go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his
prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go
forth, and do so.
1Ki 22:23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in
the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil
concerning thee.
guardian Snow
I think we will find that most of these instances come because of the
practice of Witchcraft. My next topic:)
Shalom,
Snow
Qadosh Stephanos
It is written that only the tribe of Judah remained in those lands.
Although some Levites also remained. The tribe of Judah is Messiah.
Some accepted the Messiah. Others are still awaiting their Messiah.
Sometime in this century, the Christian's stopped killing the Jews.
The lost tribes can be Muslim, Paganists, Atheists, or Christian's.
The people in Israel are tribes of Judah. The others lost religion.
Maybe we can be called Messianic Gentiles. We don't know our blood.
It doesn't matter anyway, God don't care either. God is not racist.
God gives where He is. The people of demons speak in other tongues.
Australians speak funny: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0haowbRsmw
Debra
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yes...It is self explanatory...So why the difference in the NT
thinking?
Linda Lee
You're being very vague and non-specific, but I'll take a guess at
what you mean by "the difference in the NT thinking".
Ps. 78:49 says of God, "He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger,
wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among
them."
In the NT, Yeshua` cast out demons which had caused blindness,
deafness, insanity, illness in general. Is that what you're referring
to? Yeshua` cast out evil spirits, rather than sent evil spirits?
In the Hebrew Scriptures, God may have occasionally sent an evil
spirit to accomplish certain things, but God did not cause all
illnesses or lies, etc. so you can't attribute it all to God.
Actually, you seem to be making a case for someone like Terry Cross
who presumes the God of the OT and the NT to be different gods, and
sees the God of the OT as evil and the God of the NT as good and
loving.
I think the difference in the NT thinking is that God incarnated as
Yeshua` to act as our Saviour, so he did not exhibit wrath towards
evil people, but instead it was the time for forgiveness of sins.
I realize that the teaching of Yeshua` concerning God can be confusing
as he sometimes refers to him as if he's a separate person, but he was
a teacher teaching about such things, and God spoke of himself in the
third person as well in the OT. For example:
Jer. 22:5 "But if ye will not hear these words, **I swear by myself,
saith the LORD,** that this house shall become a desolation."
Notice however, that Yeshua` was worshipped:
Matt. 2:2 "Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen
his star in the east, and are come to worship him."
As an adult, Yeshua` did not admonish people not to worship him:
Matt. 20:20 "Then came to him the mother of Zebedee's children with
her sons, worshiping him, and desiring a certain thing of him".
Here Yeshua` 'owns' the commandments as his own:
John 14:15 Yeshua` says, "If ye love me, keep my commandments."
But an angel tells John not to worship him in Rev 22:8-9.
guardian Snow
Excellent posting Linda and I can't disagree with you at all. As
always you show that you have an excellent grasp of the connections
between the OT and Messianic scriptures. You know what story really
convinces me that Yeshua is the Messiah... it's an interesting
connection from the book of Daniel.
I want to point this out to you because it's really a cool story.
What do these to passages have in common?
Dan 4:7 So the magicians, the astrologers, the Chaldeans, and the
diviners came in, and I related the dream to them, but its
interpretation they did not make known to me.
Mat 2:7 Then Herodes, having called the Magi secretly, learned exactly
from them what time the star appeared.
When you figure out this connection, you understand the gifts that are
brought and why:) It also explains why Yeshua complained that people
didn't pay attention to the signs already given. The hint is: The
Magi understood, why didn't Israel?
Shalom,
Snow
The Bible is a wonderful source of inspiration for those who don't
understand it. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to
repeat it.
George Santayana
George Santayana
Linda Lee
Didn't he say the only sign was the sign of Jonah?
> The hint is: The
> Magi understood, why didn't Israel?
You'll have to explain to me the connection you see between Dan. 4:7
and Matt. 2:7 because the Chaldeans *could not* reveal the dream's
meaning, but Daniel could.
Dan 4:7 Then came in the magicians, the astrologers, the Chaldeans,
and the soothsayers: and I told the dream before them; but they did
not make known unto me the interpretation thereof.
Dan 4:8 But at the last Daniel came in before me, whose name was
Belteshazzar, according to the name of my god, and in whom is the
spirit of the holy gods: and before him I told the dream, saying,
Dan 4:9 O Belteshazzar, master of the magicians, because I know that
the spirit of the holy gods is in thee, and no secret troubleth thee,
tell me the visions of my dream that I have seen, and the
interpretation thereof.
Dan 4:10 Thus were the visions of mine head in my bed; I saw, and
behold a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof was
great.
>
> Shalom,
>
> Snow
>
> The Bible is a wonderful source of inspiration for those who don't
> understand it. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to
> repeat it.
> George Santayana
> George Santayana
Snow,
??? What is that quote saying except the bible is invalid?
guardian Snow
Because Daniel was able to interpret the dreams He became greatly
revered by the Magi.. He saved all there lives after all,
Nebuchadnezzar we going to have them all killed, except Daniel saved
them. The Magi are the ones who came to Israel in search of the new
born king.. Remember the clue I gave you, the gifts... They new what
gifts to bring the new prince in Israel but Daniel never talks about
where he would be born...
Mat 16:3 and in the morning, 'Stormy weather today, for the heaven is
red and overcast.' You know how to discern the face of the heaven, but
you are unable to discern the signs of the times!
Thats why they went to King Herod, to ask of them. They didn't have
all the scriptures, only the book of Daniel! This is the prophesy that
gives absolute proof, Yeshua was the Messiah!!! Even the Magi knew
and understood and thats why Yeshua made that statement in Mat 16:3
was because the heathen Magi saw the signs and yet his own people
didn't!!!
Dan 9:24 "Seventy weeks are decreed for your people and for your set-
apart city, to put an end to the transgression, and to seal up sins,
and to cover crookedness, and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
and to seal up vision and prophet, and to anoint the Most Set-apart.
Dan 9:25 "Know, then, and understand: from the going forth of the
command to restore and build Yerushalayim until Messiah the Prince is
seven weeks and sixty-two weeks. It shall be built again, with streets
and a trench, but in times of affliction.
Dan 9:26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off and
have naught. And the people of a coming prince shall destroy the city
and the set-apart place. And the end of it is with a flood. And wastes
are decreed, and fighting until the end.
He was a Prince, so they brought Gold. The Messiah would die... and
they brought the Frankincense and myrrh for his burial. The Magi knew
the time of the arrival of the Messiah and saw the star!
Dan 12:3 "And those who have insight shall shine like the brightness
of the expanse, and those who lead many to righteousness like the
stars forever and ever.
Mat 2:10 And seeing the star, they rejoiced with exceedingly great
joy.
Mat 2:11 And coming into the house, they saw the Child with Miryam His
mother, and fell down and did reverence to Him, and opening their
treasures, they presented to Him gifts of gold, and frankincense, and
myrrh.
I just wanted you to understand that connection:) Check out the
frankincense and myrrh and you will see they are tied to royalty being
"cut off". Now thats a Christmas story:)
Shalom,
Snow
A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than
a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on
the walls of his cell.
C. S. Lewis
guardian Snow
> Yes...It is self explanatory...So why the difference in the NT
> thinking?
Because once again mankind failed to reconnect with our creator and
out of his mercy he sent his son into the world just like he told Adam
and Eve.
Gen 3:15 "And I put enmity between you and the woman, and between your
seed and her Seed1. He shall crush your head, and you shall crush His
heel." Footnote: 1First promise of the Messiah.
Shalom,
Snow
But men must know, that in this theatre of man's life it is reserved
only for God and angels to be lookers on.
Francis Bacon