My theory about Lucifer, can you prove me wrong?

[SnowPheonix]

This is my theory, that self proclaimed Apostle Paul fits the prophesy
of Lucifer as recorded in the book of Isaiah. I'm putting this
forward for critical review and would like evidence that shows I'm
wrong. For my personal acceptance, please understand that Paul's
claims to visions recorded by Luke are not evidence. I realize that
the vast majority of people believe otherwise but I'm putting this
forward because I want to find a piece that doesn't fit with Paul, to
show that I'm wrong.

Isa 14:1 For the LORD will have compassion on Jacob, and will yet
choose Israel, and set them in their own land; and the stranger shall
join himself with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.

Now we see the chapter is beginning talking about gentiles joining
with the house of Jacob.

Isa 14:2 And the peoples shall take them, and bring them to their
place; and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the
LORD for servants and for handmaids; and they shall take them captive,
whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.

The Gentiles become servants in Israel.

Isa 14:3 And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall
give thee rest from thy travail, and from thy trouble, and from the
hard service wherein thou wast made to serve,
Isa 14:4 that thou shalt take up this parable against the king of
Babylon, and say: How hath the oppressor ceased! the exactress of gold
ceased!

Now the king of Babylon I see as a reference to the leader of the
church of Babylon.

Isa 14:5 The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, the sceptre of
the rulers,

Now this is interesting because a "staff" is used to guide sheep. So
the staff of the wicked must in fact be something that leads the sheep
to wickedness.

Isa 14:6 That smote the peoples in wrath with an incessant stroke,
that ruled the nations in anger, with a persecution that none
restrained.

The "persecution that none restrained" is in my opinion because people
don't understand that Paul is Lucifer. Nobody would restrain somebody
they believed to be good.

Isa 14:7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet; they break forth
into singing.
Isa 14:8 Yea, the cypresses rejoice at thee, and the cedars of
Lebanon: 'Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.'

Lebanon is the location of Damascus and the synagogue of the
Libertines (Acts 6:9). It is the same spot where we see the
introduction of Saul stoning the disciple Stephen. It brought to mind
this parallel in Jeremiah.

Jer 22:22 The wind shall eat up all thy pastors, and thy lovers shall
go into captivity: surely then shalt thou be ashamed and confounded
for all thy wickedness.
Jer 22:23 O inhabitant of Lebanon, that makest thy nest in the
cedars, how gracious shalt thou be when pangs come upon thee, the pain
as of a woman in travail!

Isa 14:9 Sheol beneath is stirred up to meet you when you come; it
rouses the shades to greet you,

Now when Paul was canonized into scriptures, he was long dead!

all who were leaders of the earth; it raises from their thrones all
who were kings of the nations.

Isa 14:10 All of them will answer and say to you: 'You too have
become as weak as we! You have become like us!'

All the kings begin to ask this question and I would say due to lack
of moral standards, "have you become secular and worldly?" might be
another way of saying this.

Isa 14:11 Your pomp is brought down to Sheol, the sound of your
harps; maggots are laid as a bed beneath you, and worms are your
covers.
Isa 14:12 "How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn!
How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low!

Lucifer or Day Star, weakens many nations and this would fit with
moral corruption of the commandments of Elohim

Isa 14:13 You said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven;
2Co 11:10 As the truth of Christ is in me,
2Co 12:9 ...that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

above the stars of God I will set my throne on high;
1Ti 5:21 In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of the elect
angels (I charge you to keep these rules) without prejudging, doing
nothing from partiality.

I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far reaches of the north;
It's important to note that All of Paul's Assemblies were to the north
of Jerusalem.
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in
heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up
together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so
we will always be with the Lord.

I will make myself like the Most High.'
1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me
Gal 1:24 And they glorified God in me.
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I,
but Christ liveth in me:..
Gal 4:14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor
rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.
Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation
of God which is given to me for you,...

Isa 14:15 But you are brought down to Sheol, to the far reaches of
the pit.
Isa 14:16 Those who see you will stare at you and ponder over you:
'Is this the man who made the earth tremble, who shook kingdoms,
We see in verse 16 that Lucifer is in fact a man. Probably they stare
and ponder because of the surprise of it being Saul.

Isa 14:17 who made the world like a desert and overthrew its cities,
who did not let his prisoners go home?'

We see that prisoners are people that sit in the shadow of darkness
and death, Prisoners of sin.
Psa 107:10 Some sat in darkness and in the shadow of death, prisoners
in affliction and in irons,

Isa 14:18 All the kings of the nations lie in glory, each in his own
tomb;
Isa 14:19 but you are cast out, away from your grave,
Paul was brought out of his grave by having his work canonized in the
scriptures and his words live today as his gospel.

like a loathed branch,

A loathed branch probably because it's been fixed in scriptures and we
must find the many examples about trees:
Luk 3:9 Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every
tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown
into the fire."

clothed with the slain, those pierced by the sword, who go down to
the stones of the pit, like a dead body trampled underfoot.
Isa 14:20 You will not be joined with them in burial, because you
have destroyed your land, you have slain your people. "May the
offspring of evildoers nevermore be named!
We never knew if or who Paul's "offspring" was. This in fact helps to
show that it is not Nebuchadnezzar because Daniel names his son.

Isa 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his sons because of the guilt of
their fathers, lest they rise and possess the earth, and fill the face
of the world with cities."
Isa 14:22 "I will rise up against them," declares the LORD of hosts,
"and will cut off from Babylon name and remnant, descendants and
posterity," declares the LORD.
This passage also makes it clear it is a future event because it's
speaking of Babylon and the Saints, also known as the remnant.
Rev 17:5 And on her forehead was written a name of mystery: "Babylon
the great, mother of prostitutes and of earth's abominations."

Isa 14:23 "And I will make it a possession of the hedgehog, and pools
of water, and I will sweep it with the broom of destruction," declares
the LORD of hosts.
Isa 14:24 The LORD of hosts has sworn: "As I have planned, so shall
it be, and as I have purposed, so shall it stand,
Isa 14:25 that I will break the Assyrian in my land, and on my
mountains trample him underfoot; and his yoke shall depart from them,
and his burden from their shoulder."
Assyrian country was where Tarsus was located and the birthplace of
Saul/Paul. When we consider this passage we must understand that his
"yoke" and his "burden" are placed on the followers and not that of
Elohim's. This false yoke is that of a false belief and a the burden
of conflicting scriptures that divide the true churches of the Messiah
Yeshua.

Isa 14:26 This is the purpose that is purposed concerning the whole
earth, and this is the hand that is stretched out over all the
nations.
Notice also that it effect the "whole earth" and this is also proof it
is a modern day living prophesy. To me, this passage seals it that
the Assyrian is Paul whose false burden effects the whole earth by
being in the #1 best selling book in world history, the bible.

Isa 14:27 For the LORD of hosts has purposed, and who will annul it?
His hand is stretched out, and who will turn it back?
Isa 14:28 In the year that King Ahaz died came this oracle:
Isa 14:29 Rejoice not, O Philistia, all of you, that the rod that
struck you is broken, for from the serpent's root will come forth an
adder, and its fruit will be a flying fiery serpent.
Isa 14:30 And the firstborn of the poor will graze, and the needy lie
down in safety; but I will kill your root with famine, and your
remnant it will slay.
Isa 14:31 Wail, O gate; cry out, O city; melt in fear, O Philistia,
all of you! For smoke comes out of the north, and there is no
straggler in his ranks.
Isa 14:32 What will one answer the messengers of the nation? "The
LORD has founded Zion, and in her the afflicted of his people find
refuge."

I also found it interesting this mention of the "messengers of the
nations". It seems to be speaking of the scriptures to me. So, that's
why I came to that opinion and I'd like to see somebody find a reason
to show me wrong outside of "he's an apostle". It's a theory and I
don't say this is fact.. so consider it a challenge to find me
wrong:) Thanks.

With respect,

Snow

Constant development is the law of life, and a man who always tries to
maintain his dogmas in order to appear consistent drives himself into
a false position.
Mohandas Gandhi

[Abrams1117]

I'm just going to add who I think 'Lucifer' is and why.

Obviously, most people immediately think of Satan when they hear the
word/name 'Lucifer'; and I agree w/them.

Verse 13 'Lucifer' has a throne - 'Lucifer' says 'I' will ascend into
Heaven - I will exalt 'my' throne above the stars (angels) of G-D.

'Lucifer' wanted to ascend to Heaven and place his throne over
Almighty G-D's Throne.

G-D says 'Lucifer will be brought to the sides of the pit and people
will stare at him and ask questions about him.

Isaiah 14:13-17:
14:13: For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I
will exalt my throne above the stars of G-D: I will sit also upon the
mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14:14: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like
the most High.
14:15: Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the
pit.
14:16: They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider
thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did
shake kingdoms;
14:17: That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities
thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

Satan will be sealed in this pit for 1,000 years.

Revelation 20:1-3A:
20:1: And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the
bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
20:2: And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the
Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
20:3: And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a
seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more,

That Satan rules/has the throne of the earth is obvious, this ruler
and god of this world offered to give 'to' Jesus Christ all the
kingdoms of the world.

Matthew 4:8-9:
4:8: Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain,
and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
4:9: And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou
wilt fall down and worship me.

He rules, but only for a time.

[Qadosh Stephanos]

It is too bad a nation rules for a short time cannot see the maker.

The tabernacle of people planted where the prophecy was determined.

Reflection is an image of the beast who they refuse to acknowledge.

The Pharisees of Paulism were determined to bring about situations.

The synagogues of Satan are placed in areas you would think not so.

Falsifying prophesy, deluding the people, thinking that God did it.

It is very difficult there when God reveals everything about them.

The mountain of salvation seems as far away as the planet Neptune.

Disparity is shared amongst everyone of your brothers and sisters.

If you know, you then understand. If you understand, then speak.

[Qadosh Stephanos]

On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 08:25:48 -0800 (PST), SnowPheonix
<snowp...@eck.net.au> wrote:

>This is my theory, that self proclaimed Apostle Paul fits the prophesy
>of Lucifer as recorded in the book of Isaiah. I'm putting this
>forward for critical review and would like evidence that shows I'm
>wrong. For my personal acceptance, please understand that Paul's
>claims to visions recorded by Luke are not evidence. I realize that
>the vast majority of people believe otherwise but I'm putting this
>forward because I want to find a piece that doesn't fit with Paul, to
>show that I'm wrong.

There is doubt in your post. This is disturbing. You want to be right.

Stop talking of yourself. Everything given is God. Don't seek rewards.

You are given the correct knowledge, but your attitude is a shit hole.

[guardian Snow]

On Nov 18, 12:24 pm, Qadosh Stephanos <qadosh.stepha...@yahoo.ca>
wrote:

> On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 08:25:48 -0800 (PST), SnowPheonix
>

I thought it best to approach the topic with humility and let the
readers research with me. It is my hope that further revelations are
about to occur. While I do believe I am write, I would not presume to
know the will of our Father, let's he provide somebody with a even
deeper insight to make a fool of me. The only thing I really doubt is
that they can show proof I'm wrong:)

With all due respect,

Snow

Just before she died she asked, What is the answer? No answer came.
She laughed and said, In that case, what is the question? Then she
died.
Gertrude Stein

[guardian Snow]

The unscriptural view that Satan and Lucifer are one in the same is
wrong, Satan is not a man here on earth.

Zec 3:1 Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the
angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to accuse
him.

While you are correct to speak about Lucifer having a throne, you
forget that millions of Christians around the world submit to his
authority and consider his words to be that of El's.

Gal 1:24 And they glorified God in me.

Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into
heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also

upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

A careful distinction is made here, "in the sides of the north". I'm
sure that Satan would want to rule more then just Asia and Europe to
the north.

Psa 109:4 For my love they are my adversaries: but I give myself unto
prayer.
Psa 109:5 And they have rewarded me evil for good, and hatred for my
love.
Psa 109:6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his
right hand.

A wicked man is set over the people but Satan stands at his right
hand. They are in fact very different people.

[Abrams1117]

On Nov 17, 5:12 pm, Qadosh Stephanos <qadosh.stepha...@yahoo.ca>
wrote:

> On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 15:15:20 -0800 (PST), Abrams1117
>

That made no sense.

[Abrams1117]

A careful reading would reveal Scripture plainly says this 'sides of
the north' is IN Heaven.

> Psa 109:4 For my love they are my adversaries: but I give myself unto
> prayer.
> Psa 109:5 And they have rewarded me evil for good, and hatred for my
> love.
> Psa 109:6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his
> right hand.
>
> A wicked man is set over the people but Satan stands at his right

> hand. They are in fact very different people.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Qadosh Stephanos]

The beauty of a real newsgroups reader is spell check and archival.

The transitional effect of delusion are mired in the religious mud.

Conversations tainted with self righteousness are a proof of error.

Conclusion: There are too many "I" in those self absorbing sponges.

[guardian Snow]

On Nov 19, 6:16 am, Abrams1117 <John1...@peoplepc.com> wrote:

> A careful reading would reveal Scripture plainly says this 'sides of
> the north' is IN Heaven.

(Isa 14:13 KJVR) For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend

into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit
also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

(Isa 14:13 The Scriptures 1998+) "For you have said in your heart,
'Let me go up to the heavens, let me raise my throne above the stars
of El, and let me sit in the mount of meeting on the sides of the
north;

Whether this location is in heaven or on earth gives no indication
since it is only something said in the heart of Lucifer. This passage
doesn't give a real indication of reality but what Lucifer believes to
be true or what he says "in his heart".

I strongly disagree with the idea that Lucifer is Satan.

Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake
kingdoms;

Clearly it is a man. This point is highlighted in V. 16 but if that
isn't enough

Isa 14:19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable
branch,

Being cast out of the grave shows that he is mortal. It is my
understanding that this is done by his scriptures being canonized as
the word of El after his death.

Isa 14:25 That I will break the Assyrian in my land,

This being the final proof to me that Satan is not Lucifer because an
angelic being wouldn't receive a fleshly ancestry having created and
not born of man.

With humble respect,

Snow

Action may not always bring happiness; but there is no happiness
without action. How much easier it is to be critical than to be
correct.
Benjamin Disraeli

[Abrams1117]

On Nov 18, 1:44 pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
> On Nov 19, 6:16 am, Abrams1117 <John1...@peoplepc.com> wrote:
>
> > A careful reading would reveal Scripture plainly says this 'sides of
> > the north' is IN Heaven.
>
> (Isa 14:13 KJVR) For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend
> into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit
> also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
>
> (Isa 14:13 The Scriptures 1998+) "For you have said in your heart,
> 'Let me go up to the heavens, let me raise my throne above the stars
> of El, and let me sit in the mount of meeting on the sides of the
> north;
>

> Whether this location is in heaven or on earth gives no indication
> since it is only something said in the heart of Lucifer.

Isaiah 14:12:
How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You
have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!
NIV

Compare these verses to Revelation 22:13-16.

Revelation 22:13-16:
22:13: I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and
the last.
22:14: Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have
right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the
city.
22:15: For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and
murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
22:16: I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things
in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the
bright and morning star.

In these verses our Master Jesus Christ is referring to when he rules
the Earth from Jerusalem (v. 22:14). He calls himself the morning
star.

Revelation 22:16B:
I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning
star.

Right now Satan is the morning star.

Isaiah 14:12A:
How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn!
NIV

Now read Revelation 2:24-28.

Revelation 2:24-28:
2:24: But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as
have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan,
as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
2:25: But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
2:26: And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to
him will I give power over the nations:
2:27: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a
potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my
Father.
2:28: And I will give him the morning star.

In these verses Jesus Christ is telling the church at Thyatira to
hold fast. When he comes to the Earth he will give them power over the
nations to rule them with a rod of iron and the morning star.

Revelation 2:28:
And I will give him the morning star.

Jesus Christ will share this power of the morning star with the
saints. He will give the saints power to reign on Earth with him.

Revelation 20:6:
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on
such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of G D
and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The morning star simply refers to the throne of the Earth.

[guardian Snow]

I'll have to pray and consider your points and would show you
something you've probably never seen before.
I'm not going to say that your wrong but at this stage I'd like to
point you to a second, more hidden prophesy that nobody considers
because of the change in the way a word was translated:

Isa 47:10 For thou hast trusted in thy wickedness: thou hast said,
None seeth me. Thy wisdom and thy knowledge, it hath perverted thee;
and thou hast said in thine heart, I am, and none else beside me.
Isa 47:11 Therefore shall evil come upon thee; thou shalt not know
from whence it riseth: and mischief shall fall upon thee; thou shalt
not be able to put it off: and desolation shall come upon thee
suddenly, which thou shalt not know.

The word "riseth" is translated Dawn in Isaiah 14. Consider less the
"Morning Star" and think more about "Son of the dawn". Then let me
show you whats hidden from us in the English translation which are
very poor.

Isa 14:12 How349 art thou fallen5307 from heaven,4480, 8064 O Lucifer,
1966 son1121 of the morning!7837

What might support your idea is 8064. "Heaven"

Gen 1:9 And God430 said,559 Let the waters4325 under4480, 8478 the
heaven8064

Ironically, 8478 means "bottom".. waters under the bottom heaven..

Fallen from under Heaven Lucifer.. Not fallen from heaven.

You might notice I put a little study time into this before I put this
out. Sorry if this makes it feel like a circular argument.

Jer 8:8 “How do you say, ‘We are wise, and the Torah of יהוה YHWY is
with us’? But look, the false pen of the scribe has worked falsehood.

With respect,

Snow

A man's felicity consists not in the outward and visible blessing of
fortune, but in the inward and unseen perfections and riches of the
mind. A strong mind always hopes, and has always cause to hope.
Thomas Carlyle

[Debra]

> Thomas Carlyle- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Author quotes:
Isaiah 47:10...For thou hast trusted in thy wickedness: thou has said,

None seeth me. Thy wisdom and thy knowledge, it hath perverted thee;

and thou hast said in thine heart, I am, and there is none else beside
me....verse 11...Therefore shall evil come upon thee; thou shalt not
be able to know from whence it riseth: and mischief shall fall upon
thee; thou shalt not be able to put if off: and desolation shall come
upon thee suddenly, which thou shalt not know....

Reply:
Now here is a book of irony...The Book of Job...where G-d allows
Satan, the adversary to go and to tempt Job...Job was being tested
although he had lived righteously...and his friends in the irony of it
all gave him speeches concerning his supposed wickedness...You have to
look to see who is speaking in this Book...and the irony... G-d
allowed for this and rebukes these friends at the end as not being
right in any of their speeches although they were right in their head
knowledge of what would normally be g-dly as they spoke with Job...And
although Job was righteous and maintained his integrity...He still
repents in dust and ashes...because in comparison to G-d...He is
nothing... He realized he did not understand the working of G-d....The
three friends had not spoken right as Job had... He allowed Job to
pray on their behalf instead of dealing with them according to their
folly...and then Job was blessed more in the latter part of his life
than the earlier...Irony...sometimes things aren't always what they
seem.

Debra

Job 3:16-18 (King James Version)

16Or as an hidden untimely birth I had not been; as infants which
never saw light.

17There the wicked cease from troubling; and there the weary be at
rest.

18There the prisoners rest together; they hear not the voice of the
oppressor.

Job 4:7-9 (King James Version)

7Remember, I pray thee, who ever perished, being innocent? or where
were the righteous cut off?

8Even as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness,
reap the same.

9By the blast of God they perish, and by the breath of his nostrils
are they consumed.

Job 8:21-22 (King James Version)

21Till he fill thy mouth with laughing, and thy lips with rejoicing.

22They that hate thee shall be clothed with shame; and the dwelling
place of the wicked shall come to nought.

Job 9:21-25 (King James Version)

21Though I were perfect, yet would I not know my soul: I would
despise my life.

22This is one thing, therefore I said it, He destroyeth the perfect
and the wicked.

23If the scourge slay suddenly, he will laugh at the trial of the
innocent.

24The earth is given into the hand of the wicked: he covereth the
faces of the judges thereof; if not, where, and who is he?

25Now my days are swifter than a post: they flee away, they see no
good

Job 9:28-30 (King James Version)

28I am afraid of all my sorrows, I know that thou wilt not hold me
innocent.

29If I be wicked, why then labour I in vain?

30If I wash myself with snow water, and make my hands never so clean;

Job 10:2-4 (King James Version)

2I will say unto God, Do not condemn me; shew me wherefore thou
contendest with me.

3Is it good unto thee that thou shouldest oppress, that thou
shouldest despise the work of thine hands, and shine upon the counsel
of the wicked?

4Hast thou eyes of flesh? or seest thou as man seeth?

Job 10:6-8 (King James Version)

6That thou enquirest after mine iniquity, and searchest after my
sin?

7Thou knowest that I am not wicked; and there is none that can
deliver out of thine hand.

8Thine hands have made me and fashioned me together round about; yet
thou dost destroy me.

Job 10:14-16 (King James Version)

14If I sin, then thou markest me, and thou wilt not acquit me from
mine iniquity.

15If I be wicked, woe unto me; and if I be righteous, yet will I not
lift up my head. I am full of confusion; therefore see thou mine
affliction;

16For it increaseth. Thou huntest me as a fierce lion: and again thou
shewest thyself marvellous upon me.

Job 11:10-12 (King James Version)

10If he cut off, and shut up, or gather together, then who can hinder
him?

11FOR HE KNOWETH VAIN MEN: HE SEETH WICKEDNESS ALSO; WILL HE NOT THEN
CONSIDER IT?

12For vain men would be wise, though man be born like a wild ass's
colt.

Job 11:13-15 (King James Version)

13If thou prepare thine heart, and stretch out thine hands toward
him;

14If iniquity be in thine hand, put it far away, and let not
wickedness dwell in thy tabernacles.

15For then shalt thou lift up thy face without spot; yea, thou shalt
be stedfast, and shalt not fear:

Job 11:19-20 (King James Version)

19Also thou shalt lie down, and none shall make thee afraid; yea,
many shall make suit unto thee.

20But the eyes of the wicked shall fail, and they shall not escape,
and their hope shall be as the giving up of the ghost.

Job 13:6-8 (King James Version)

6Hear now my reasoning, and hearken to the pleadings of my lips.

7WILL YE SPEAK WICKEDLY FOR G-D? AND TALK DECEITFULLY FOR HIM?

8Will ye accept his person? will ye contend for God?

Job 15:19-21 (King James Version)

19Unto whom alone the earth was given, and no stranger passed among
them.

20The wicked man travaileth with pain all his days, and the number of
years is hidden to the oppressor.

21A dreadful sound is in his ears: in prosperity the destroyer shall
come upon him.

Job 16:10-12 (King James Version)

10They have gaped upon me with their mouth; they have smitten me upon
the cheek reproachfully; they have gathered themselves together
against me.

11God hath delivered me to the ungodly, and turned me over into the
hands of the wicked.

12I was at ease, but he hath broken me asunder: he hath also taken me
by my neck, and shaken me to pieces, and set me up for his mark.

Job 18:4-6 (King James Version)

4He teareth himself in his anger: shall the earth be forsaken for
thee? and shall the rock be removed out of his place?

5Yea, THE LIGHT OF THE WICKED SHALL BE PUT OUT,and the spark of his
fire shall not shine.

6The light shall be dark in his tabernacle, and his candle shall be
put out with him.

Job 18:20-21 (King James Version)

20They that come after him shall be astonied at his day, as they that
went before were affrighted.

21Surely such are THE DWELLINGS OF THE WICKED, and THIS IS THE PLACE
OF HIM THAT KNOWETH NOT G-D.

Job 20:4-6 (King James Version)

4Knowest thou not this of old, since man was placed upon earth,

5That THE TRIUMPHING OF THE WICKED IS SHORT,and THE JOY OF THE
HYPOCRITE BUT FOR A MOMENT?

6Though his excellency mount up to the heavens, and his head reach
unto the clouds;

Job 20:11-13 (King James Version)

11His bones are full of the sin of his youth, which shall lie down
with him in the dust.

12THOUGH WICKEDNESS BE SWEET IN HIS MOUTH, THOUGH HE HIDE IT UNDER
HIS TONGUE;

13Though he spare it, and forsake it not; but keep it still within
his mouth:

Job 20:21-23 (King James Version)

21There shall none of his meat be left; therefore shall no man look
for his goods.

22In the fulness of his sufficiency he shall be in straits: every
hand of the wicked shall come upon him.

23When he is about to fill his belly, God shall cast the fury of his
wrath upon him, and shall rain it upon him while he is eating.

Job 20:28-29 (King James Version)

28The increase of his house shall depart, and his goods shall flow
away in the day of his wrath.

29This is the portion of a wicked man from God, and the heritage
appointed unto him by God.

Job 21:6-8 (King James Version)

6Even when I remember I am afraid, and trembling taketh hold on my
flesh.

7Wherefore do the wicked live, become old, yea, are mighty in power?

8Their seed is established in their sight with them, and their
offspring before their eyes.

Job 21:15-18 (King James Version)

15What is the Almighty, that we should serve him? and what profit
should we have, if we pray unto him?

16Lo, their good is not in their hand: the counsel of the wicked is
far from me.

17How oft is the candle of the wicked put out! and how oft cometh
their destruction upon them! God distributeth sorrows in his anger.

18They are as stubble before the wind, and as chaff that the storm
carrieth away.

Job 21:27-31 (King James Version)

27Behold, I know your thoughts, and the devices which ye wrongfully
imagine against me.

28For ye say, Where is the house of the prince? and where are the
dwelling places of the wicked?

29Have ye not asked them that go by the way? and do ye not know their
tokens,

30That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall
be brought forth to the day of wrath.

31Who shall declare his way to his face? and who shall repay him what
he hath done?

Job 22:4-6 (King James Version)

4Will he reprove thee for fear of thee? will he enter with thee into
judgment?

5Is not thy wickedness great? and thine iniquities infinite?

6For thou hast taken a pledge from thy brother for nought, and
stripped the naked of their clothing.

Job 22:14-16 (King James Version)

14Thick clouds are a covering to him, that he seeth not; and he
walketh in the circuit of heaven.

15Hast thou marked the old way which wicked men have trodden?

16Which were cut down out of time, whose foundation was overflown
with a flood:

Job 22:17-19 (King James Version)

17Which said unto God, Depart from us: and what can the Almighty do
for them?

18Yet he filled their houses with good things: but the counsel of the
wicked is far from me.

19The righteous see it, and are glad: and the innocent laugh them to
scorn.

Job 24:5-7 (King James Version)

5Behold, as wild asses in the desert, go they forth to their work;
rising betimes for a prey: the wilderness yieldeth food for them and
for their children.

6They reap every one his corn in the field: and they gather the
vintage of the wicked.

7They cause the naked to lodge without clothing, that they have no
covering in the cold.

Job 24:19-21 (King James Version)

19Drought and heat consume the snow waters: so doth the grave those
which have sinned.

20The womb shall forget him; the worm shall feed sweetly on him; he
shall be no more remembered; and wickedness shall be broken as a
tree.

21He evil entreateth the barren that beareth not: and doeth not good
to the widow.

Job 27:3-8 (King James Version)

3All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my
nostrils;

4My lips shall not speak wickedness, nor my tongue utter deceit.

5God forbid that I should justify you: till I die I will not remove
mine integrity from me.

6My righteousness I hold fast, and will not let it go: my heart shall
not reproach me so long as I live.

7Let mine enemy be as the wicked, and he that riseth up against me as
the unrighteous.

8For what is the hope of the hypocrite, though he hath gained, when
God taketh away his soul?

Job 27:12-14 (King James Version)

12Behold, all ye yourselves have seen it; why then are ye thus
altogether vain?

13This is the portion of a wicked man with God, and the heritage of
oppressors, which they shall receive of the Almighty.

14If his children be multiplied, it is for the sword: and his
offspring shall not be satisfied with bread.

Job 29:16-18 (King James Version)

16I was a father to the poor: and the cause which I knew not I
searched out.

17And I brake the jaws of the wicked, and plucked the spoil out of
his teeth.

18Then I said, I shall die in my nest, and I shall multiply my days
as the sand.

Job 31:2-4 (King James Version)

2For what portion of God is there from above? and what inheritance of
the Almighty from on high?

3Is not destruction to the wicked? and a strange punishment to the
workers of iniquity?

4Doth not he see my ways, and count all my steps?

Job 34:7-13 (King James Version)

7What man is like Job, who drinketh up scorning like water?

8Which goeth in company with the workers of iniquity, and walketh
with wicked men.

9For he hath said, It profiteth a man nothing that he should delight
himself with God.

10Therefore hearken unto me ye men of understanding: far be it from
God, that he should do wickedness; and from the Almighty, that he
should commit iniquity.

11For the work of a man shall he render unto him, and cause every man
to find according to his ways.

12Yea, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty
pervert judgment.

13Who hath given him a charge over the earth? or who hath disposed
the whole world?

Job 34:17-19 (King James Version)

17Shall even he that hateth right govern? and wilt thou condemn him
that is most just?

18Is it fit to say to a king, Thou art wicked? and to princes, Ye are
ungodly?

19How much less to him that accepteth not the persons of princes, nor
regardeth the rich more than the poor? for they all are the work of
his hands.

Job 34:25-27 (King James Version)

25Therefore he knoweth their works, and he overturneth them in the
night, so that they are destroyed.

26He striketh them as wicked men in the open sight of others;

27Because they turned back from him, and would not consider any of
his ways:

Job 34:35-37 (King James Version)

35Job hath spoken without knowledge, and his words were without
wisdom.

36My desire is that Job may be tried unto the end because of his
answers for wicked men.

37For he addeth rebellion unto his sin, he clappeth his hands among
us, and multiplieth his words against God.

Job 35:7-9 (King James Version)

7If thou be righteous, what givest thou him? or what receiveth he of
thine hand?

8Thy wickedness may hurt a man as thou art; and thy righteousness may
profit the son of man.

9By reason of the multitude of oppressions they make the oppressed to
cry: they cry out by reason of the arm of the mighty.J

Job 36:5-7 (King James Version)

5Behold, God is mighty, and despiseth not any: he is mighty in
strength and wisdom.

6He preserveth not the life of the wicked: but giveth right to the
poor.

7He withdraweth not his eyes from the righteous: but with kings are
they on the throne; yea, he doth establish them for ever, and they are
exalted.

Job 36:16-18 (King James Version)

16Even so would he have removed thee out of the strait into a broad
place, where there is no straitness; and that which should be set on
thy table should be full of fatness.

17But thou hast fulfilled the judgment of the wicked: judgment and
justice take hold on thee.

18Because there is wrath, beware lest he take thee away with his
stroke: then a great ransom cannot deliver thee.

Job 38:12-14 (King James Version)

12Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the
dayspring to know his place;

13That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked
might be shaken out of it?

14It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.

Job 38:14-16 (King James Version)

14It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.

15And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm
shall be broken.

16Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked
in the search of the depth?

Job 40:11-13 (King James Version)

11Cast abroad the rage of thy wrath: and behold every one that is
proud, and abase him.

12Look on every one that is proud, and bring him low; and tread down
the wicked in their place.

13Hide them in the dust together; and bind their faces in secret.

[Debra]

On Nov 17, 5:12�pm, Qadosh Stephanos <qadosh.stepha...@yahoo.ca>
wrote:

> On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 15:15:20 -0800 (PST), Abrams1117
>

Here's my swing at speaking what Qadosh has said from the insight of
my experience

***He rules, but only for a time.

Adversary ruling the nations...but for a short time.

***It is too bad a nation rules for a short time cannot see the
maker.

We want everyone to see our maker...but only he will reveal himself
when the timing is right...
For myself...Amazingly...over two years have passed since he chastised
me and caused me to cry out to him to show me if I was following any
false teaching...and I trust him implicitly to hold me up as I
continue to seek him to be sure I am not following any...people need
to seek their maker...wholeheartedly...repenting...confessing
sin...and asking him to teach them...and to show them if they are
following deception at all...and we need to continue to...The trials
help us to depend on him...and to seek him.

***The tabernacle of people planted where the prophecy was
determined.

G-d's people are dispersed throughout the world all over the earth
until he gathers them... In the right places.

***Reflection is an image of the beast who they refuse to
acknowledge.

People in the modern "churches" are blind to who they follow...the
image of a beast vs G-d himself in obedience to him

***The Pharisees of Paulism were determined to bring about
situations.

And they did...The brought about the false worshipping "churches" that
stand today where so many think they are worshipping him in Spirit and
in truth...but again...they are blind...and he allows for this
blindness.

***The synagogues of Satan are placed in areas you would think not
so.

All of the modern "churches"...false church growth messages...false
doctrine...watered down feel good gospels...poorly translated "very
modern paraphrased type bibles"...congregants are unrepentant of their
sins...and they think again that they are obeying G-d because they are
led astray by false pastors as prophesied in Jeremiah who teach
rebellion against G-d...all over the world...all different
"denominations"...The feel good churches with the tolerant love and
the worldly methods to reach the world...Many who live one way and
then profess to teach his word...So many of these modern teachers are
being exposed as fraudulant and hypocritical...
G-d calling his children back to a more Hebrew faith.

***Falsifying prophesy, deluding the people, thinking that God did
it.

These rebellious pastors do not seek G-d...Down on their knees
repentant seeking him for wisdom, discernment, knoweldge and
understanding...They read the latest authors...or the "popular
pastors" through the centuries for "their worldly knowledge"...taking
the ideas of men as the teaching of G-d...and the majority believe
because traditions stand...basically if everybody else thinks this way
"It must be the truth"...They create new manmade traditions...All in
rebellion to G-d...and they claim all the while that G-d is doing
it...as though they are blessed in the truth...Personal revealing to
me was the Purpose Driven/Emerging/New Age movements... and nobody
obey's G-d's commandments entirely.

***It is very difficult there when God reveals everything about them.

I think people who have this revealed to them go through the biggest
roller coaster ride of their life as they sort out truth from G-d vs
manmade thoughts about G-d they have always been taught...Especially
from the diametrically opposed teaching of Paul that all "churches"
still hold dear....You have to choose which relationships you
keep...You have to let go the ones that will not stand...and you have
to obey G-d and choose to live righteously...To come out of Spiritual
Adultery...To turn to reconciliation with G-d...Difficult is an
understatement when you realize these men have been leading you astray
when the entire time you looked to them to preach truth.

***mountain of salvation seems as far away as the planet Neptune.

Yes...G-d gathering his people...Us sharing what is revealed to us as
we go along with our own learning silmutaneously...Asking him to hold
us up...Giving up what we once held as truth... and remembering that
we have to share with others although it is sometimes difficult when
they refuse to listen...Because they are still in rebellion...Not
knowing who will repent and who won't.

***Disparity is shared amongst everyone of your brothers and sisters.

Disparity...Isolatedness...As G-d uses this time to strengthen us in
our faith so that we depend on him and him only...To teach us
truth...Hoping we are not disobeying him...but trusting him to reveal
it as we go in prayer before him and seek him to teach us through his
word.

***If you know, you then understand. If you understand, then speak.

Debra

[guardian Snow]

On Nov 19, 12:39 pm, Abrams1117 <John1...@peoplepc.com> wrote:

> The morning star simply refers to the throne of the Earth.

I tend to see it differently. The difference between "morning star"
and "Son of the Dawn" is perspective.

While one is a heavenly body the son of the Dawn is on earth looking
at and emulating the morning star.

Does that make any sense?

With respect,

Snow

Anger and intolerance are the enemies of correct understanding.
Mohandas Gandhi

[Abrams1117]

The word 'heaven' in Isaiah 14:12 could mean either 'heaven' or
'Heaven':

Strong's Hebrew Definition for # 08064

08064 // Mymv // shamayim // shaw-mah'-yim // dual of an unused
singular
// hmv // shameh // shaw-meh' //

from an unused root meaning to be lofty; TWOT - 2407a; n m

AV - heaven 398, air 21, astrologers + 01895 1; 420

1) heaven, heavens, sky
1a) visible heavens, sky
1a1) as abode of the stars
1a2) as the visible universe, the sky, atmosphere, etc
1b) Heaven (as the abode of G-D)

As for separating 'O morning star' 'comma' 'son of dawn!' into two
separate entities I would have to see other examples in Scripture
where a 'continious' description such as 'morning star' and 'son of
dawn' (morning/dawn) were separated by a comma and describes two
different things.

Isaiah 14:12:
How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn!
You
have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!
NIV

Later verses may be about (Satan then) 'the' 'Anti-Christ' as many
people believe; such as found in Ezekiel 28 - with Satan here
described second:

The anti-Christ:

Ezekiel 28
1The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
2Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord G-D;
Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a G-D, I
sit in the seat of G-D, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man,
and not G-D, though thou set thine heart as the heart of G-D:
3Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can
hide from thee:
4With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee
riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures:
5By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy
riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:
6Therefore thus saith the Lord G-D; Because thou hast set thine heart
as the heart of G-D;
7Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of
the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of
thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.
8They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths
of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.
9Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am G-D? but thou
shalt be a man, and no G-D, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.
10Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of
strangers: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord G-D.
11Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

Satan:

12Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say
unto him, Thus saith the Lord G-D; Thou sealest up the sum, full of
wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13Thou hast been in Eden the garden of G-D; every precious stone was
thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the
onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle,
and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared
in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so:
thou wast upon the holy mountain of G-D; thou hast walked up and down
in the midst of the stones of fire.
15Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created,
till iniquity was found in thee.
16By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of
thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee
as profane out of the mountain of G-D: and I will destroy thee, O
covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted
thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the
ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine
iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring
forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will
bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that
behold thee.
19All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at
thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

Maybe I should, but I don't sweat the small stuff - when people 'over'
think Scripture they go off on all kinds of and endless tangents; such
as the woman in Revelation - obviously anyone can see 'her' in
Joseph's dream. Some people read it and say She is Mary! they are
simply 'guessing'. Others find Joseph's dream and say she is Isreal.
But others look for deeper meanings in everything and say yes she is
Israel -but - the church and Christ came out of Israel so now she
represnts the church...etc.

I'll just stick w/her being Israel.

I never get into 'strong's'. I believe that G-D did all of the hard
work and the 66 books we have are the only ones we are supposed to
have. Theres no value in any other books.

Since I believe that G-D wants us to read these things in Ezekiel 28
that all plainly point to an angel named Satan I work from there and
base other beliefs on that - without having to look for 'the deep
hidden things' that take other people into crazy places filled with
pride because only 'they' are in the know - they dont know that they
may be wrong - they cant see this through their own pride. I hope I
made sense at 3:30 A.M.

:)

Thou hast been in Eden the garden of G-D

Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth;

and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of G-D; thou
hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created,
till iniquity was found in thee.

By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee
with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as
profane out of the mountain of G-D:

* It is child's play to find other Scriptures to support these verses
as refering to 'Satan' the angel fallen from Heaven.

PS Mohandas Gandhi was 'kewl' ; I made a pic of me and Lincoln and
King and Ghandi 'hanging out' just to remind myself of what we 'can'
be. Yet, I do not understand how people post to a 'Bible' group and
cannot find a Scripture to use in their sig. At least someone with the
title 'Pastor' should do this.

'PSS' as for using the phrase 'The' anti-Christ Ive gone back and
forth on this one many times - first, when you say the Beast or False
Prophet, some people think they are the same person, others think they
are two people, others thing the Beast is a country or a church and
the other is a person and some think the opposite - second, back to
using 'the' - the much argued verse says there are many - that cannot
be debated, yet it still mentions the 'one'. I just used it here not
to get into the 'Beast/False Prophet' debate in this thread.

[guardian Snow]

By the way, I understand we disagree with the premise but how awesome
is it that we can study the word together and learn from each other.

I wasn't really thinking of Lucifer, son of the dawn as separate
entities personally. To me it's more like a name and surname. In his
heart he wants to be the morning star but his surname is Son of the
Dawn. I see Dawn as Satan and so, it is more like, "Messiah, Son of
Satan" in Christian speak.

Sorry.. I'm going into the rest of your post now but I find it's best
to get these thoughts out as they come to me. Oh and one other
thing... That Genesis passage I pointed out..

See, I have such reverance for the word of Elohim that I attempt to
leave what the scribes put in there words..

So, while I put "waters under the bottom heaven" in modern terms I
would say "waters under the lower atmosphere". That in effect agrees
with your understanding.

With humble respect,

Snow

It is the quality of our work which will please God and not the
quantity.
Mohandas Gandhi

Gandhi was a favorite of mine to... would love to see that picture
some day. Not as Christ but I do respect his wisdom.

[Debra]

Author quotes:

> Anger and intolerance are the enemies of correct understanding.
> Mohandas Gandhi

Sometimes I find it odd that somebody who is trying to speak for G-d
is quoting Gandhi who did not live according to Torah or G-d's
principles at all...Correct understanding and knowledge only come from
YHWH....Because those that FEAR him and SEEK him will have it...Did
Gandhi worship the god with correct understanding??

Debra

[Debra]

> some day. Not as Christ but I do respect his wisdom.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Author quotes

> Gandhi was a favorite of mine to... would love to see that picture

> some day. Not as Christ but I do respect his wisdom.- Hide quoted text -
>

Debra

Sometimes I find it odd that somebody who is trying to speak for G-d
is quoting Gandhi who did not live according to Torah or G-d's
principles at all...Correct understanding and knowledge only come
from
YHWH....Because those that FEAR him and SEEK him will have it...Did

Gandhi worship the god with correct understanding?? I wonder how YHWH
feels about people who profess to speak for him who quote another's
understanding of wisdom that is not directly from YHWH??

Debra

[Debra]

> Debra- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Is the Hindu god followed by Gandhi considered a satan(adversary) to
the G-d of Israel? The G-d people on these forums profess to be
reconciled to? What does G-d say about putting other gods before him?
If we follow the wisdom of a man who follows another god he professes
to get understanding from...Should YHWH's people follow that wisdom?
Although his life was peaceful, did Gandhi have anything to do with
the ecumenical linking of today's various religions? Was he trying to
bring world peace before Messiah's World Peace?

Debra

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism

Psalm 1
1Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly,
nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the
scornful.

2But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he
meditate day and night.

3And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that
bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not
wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

4The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind
driveth away.

5Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners
in the congregation of the righteous.

6For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the
ungodly shall perish.

Proverbs 1
1The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel;

2To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of
understanding;

3To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and
equity;

4To give subtilty to the simple, to the young man knowledge and
discretion.

5A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of
understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:

6To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the
wise, and their dark sayings.

7The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools
despise wisdom and instruction.

8My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and forsake not the law
of thy mother:

9For they shall be an ornament of grace unto thy head, and chains
about thy neck.

10My son, if sinners entice thee, consent thou not.

11If they say, Come with us, let us lay wait for blood, let us lurk
privily for the innocent without cause:

12Let us swallow them up alive as the grave; and whole, as those that
go down into the pit:

13We shall find all precious substance, we shall fill our houses with
spoil:

14Cast in thy lot among us; let us all have one purse:

15My son, walk not thou in the way with them; refrain thy foot from
their path:

16For their feet run to evil, and make haste to shed blood.

17Surely in vain the net is spread in the sight of any bird.

18And they lay wait for their own blood; they lurk privily for their
own lives.

19So are the ways of every one that is greedy of gain; which taketh
away the life of the owners thereof.

20Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:

21She crieth in the chief place of concourse, in the openings of the
gates: in the city she uttereth her words, saying,

22How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners
delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?

23Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you,
I will make known my words unto you.

24Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my
hand, and no man regarded;

25But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my
reproof:

26I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear
cometh;

27When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as
a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.

28Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall
seek me early, but they shall not find me:

29For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the
LORD:

30They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof.

31Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be
filled with their own devices.

32For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the
prosperity of fools shall destroy them.

33But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet
from fear of evil.

Exodus 20
1And God spake all these words, saying,

2I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of
Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

3Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of
any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or
that is in the water under the earth.

5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the
LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers
upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that
hate me;

6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my
commandments.

7Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the
LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou
shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy
manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that
is within thy gates:

11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all
that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD
blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

12Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon
the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

13Thou shalt not kill.

14Thou shalt not commit adultery.

15Thou shalt not steal.

16Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

17Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet
thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his
ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

18And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the
noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people
saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.

19And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but
let not God speak with us, lest we die.

20And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove
you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not.

21And the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near unto the thick
darkness where God was.

22And the LORD said unto Moses, Thus thou shalt say unto the children
of Israel, Ye have seen that I have talked with you from heaven.

23Ye shall not make with me gods of silver, neither shall ye make
unto you gods of gold.

24An altar of earth thou shalt make unto me, and shalt sacrifice
thereon thy burnt offerings, and thy peace offerings, thy sheep, and
thine oxen: in all places where I record my name I will come unto
thee, and I will bless thee.

25And if thou wilt make me an altar of stone, thou shalt not build it
of hewn stone: for if thou lift up thy tool upon it, thou hast
polluted it.

26Neither shalt thou go up by steps unto mine altar, that thy
nakedness be not discovered thereon.

Deuteronomy 5
1And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the
statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye
may learn them, and keep, and do them.

2The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.

3The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even
us, who are all of us here alive this day.

4The LORD talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst
of the fire,

5(I stood between the LORD and you at that time, to shew you the word
of the LORD: for ye were afraid by reason of the fire, and went not up
into the mount;) saying,

6I am the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt,
from the house of bondage.

7Thou shalt have none other gods before me.

8Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any
thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or
that is in the waters beneath the earth:

9Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the
LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers
upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that
hate me,

10And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my
commandments.

11Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the
LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

12Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath
commanded thee.

13Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:

14But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou
shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy
manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any
of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy
manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.

15And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and
that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand
and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee
to keep the sabbath day.

16Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath
commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go
well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

17Thou shalt not kill.

18Neither shalt thou commit adultery.

19Neither shalt thou steal.

20Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.

21Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour's wife, neither shalt thou
covet thy neighbour's house, his field, or his manservant, or his
maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any thing that is thy
neighbour's.

22These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out
of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness,
with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two
tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.

23And it came to pass, when ye heard the voice out of the midst of
the darkness, (for the mountain did burn with fire,) that ye came near
unto me, even all the heads of your tribes, and your elders;

24And ye said, Behold, the LORD our God hath shewed us his glory and
his greatness, and we have heard his voice out of the midst of the
fire: we have seen this day that God doth talk with man, and he
liveth.

25Now therefore why should we die? for this great fire will consume
us: if we hear the voice of the LORD our God any more, then we shall
die.

26For who is there of all flesh, that hath heard the voice of the
living God speaking out of the midst of the fire, as we have, and
lived?

27Go thou near, and hear all that the LORD our God shall say: and
speak thou unto us all that the LORD our God shall speak unto thee;
and we will hear it, and do it.

28And the LORD heard the voice of your words, when ye spake unto me;
and the LORD said unto me, I have heard the voice of the words of this
people, which they have spoken unto thee: they have well said all that
they have spoken.

29O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me,
and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them,
and with their children for ever!

30Go say to them, Get you into your tents again.

31But as for thee, stand thou here by me, and I will speak unto thee
all the commandments, and the statutes, and the judgments, which thou
shalt teach them, that they may do them in the land which I give them
to possess it.

32Ye shall observe to do therefore as the LORD your God hath
commanded you: ye shall not turn aside to the right hand or to the
left.

33Ye shall walk in all the ways which the LORD your God hath
commanded you, that ye may live, and that it may be well with you, and
that ye may prolong your days in the land which ye shall possess.

Deuteronomy 6
1Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments,
which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them
in the land whither ye go to possess it:

2That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes
and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy
son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be
prolonged.

3Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well
with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy
fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and
honey.

4Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

5And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with
all thy soul, and with all thy might.

6And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine
heart:

7And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt
talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest
by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

8And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall
be as frontlets between thine eyes.

9And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy
gates.

10And it shall be, when the LORD thy God shall have brought thee into
the land which he sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to
Jacob, to give thee great and goodly cities, which thou buildedst
not,

11And houses full of all good things, which thou filledst not, and
wells digged, which thou diggedst not, vineyards and olive trees,
which thou plantedst not; when thou shalt have eaten and be full;

12Then beware lest thou forget the LORD, which brought thee forth out
of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

13Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God, and serve him, and shalt swear by
his name.

14Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which
are round about you;

15(For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you) lest the anger of
the LORD thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off
the face of the earth.

16Ye shall not tempt the LORD your God, as ye tempted him in Massah.

17Ye shall diligently keep the commandments of the LORD your God, and
his testimonies, and his statutes, which he hath commanded thee.

18And thou shalt do that which is right and good in the sight of the
LORD: that it may be well with thee, and that thou mayest go in and
possess the good land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers.

19To cast out all thine enemies from before thee, as the LORD hath
spoken.

20And when thy son asketh thee in time to come, saying, What mean the
testimonies, and the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD our
God hath commanded you?

21Then thou shalt say unto thy son, We were Pharaoh's bondmen in
Egypt; and the LORD brought us out of Egypt with a mighty hand:

22And the LORD shewed signs and wonders, great and sore, upon Egypt,
upon Pharaoh, and upon all his household, before our eyes:

23And he brought us out from thence, that he might bring us in, to
give us the land which he sware unto our fathers.

24And the LORD commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the
LORD our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as
it is at this day.

25And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these
commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

[Abrams1117]

On Nov 19, 7:05 am, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:

> On Nov 18, 11:57?pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 19, 12:39 pm, Abrams1117 <John1...@peoplepc.com> wrote:
>
> > > The morning star simply refers to the throne of the Earth.
>

> > I tend to see it differently. ?The difference between "morning star"

> > and "Son of the Dawn" is perspective.
>
> > While one is a heavenly body the son of the Dawn is on earth looking
> > at and emulating the morning star.
>
> > Does that make any sense?
>
> > With respect,
>
> > Snow
>
> > Anger and intolerance are the enemies of correct understanding.
> > Mohandas Gandhi
>
> Author quotes:
>
> > Anger and intolerance are the enemies of correct understanding.
> > Mohandas Gandhi
>
> Sometimes I find it odd that somebody who is trying to speak for G-d
> is quoting Gandhi who did not live according to Torah or G-d's
> principles at all...Correct understanding and knowledge only come from
> YHWH....Because those that FEAR him and SEEK him will have it...Did
> Gandhi worship the god with correct understanding??
>

Clearly Gandhi showed more true 'Christian' love than an untold number
of those calling themselves 'Pastor'.

My favorite Gandhi quote, 'I am a Muslim, and a Hindu, and a
Christian, and a Jew, and so are all of you.'

> Debra- Hide quoted text -

[::: good news :::]

In
news:275b9512-cb77-4335...@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com,
Abrams1117 <John...@peoplepc.com> typed:

What I honor is that Ghandi did not fight but used peaceful means to
stop a war.

Something we can learn from.

I have a Hindu friend (of thirteen years of age), and they have several
good things in their faith. The problem is not to honor this, but to
know that their gods are not G-d, and that they believe in a lie. There
is just One G-d.

::: vera :::

[Abrams1117]

We can learn from each other....if you 'learn' anything from talking
with me I hope it is not to judge. PD, nwd, M, Fred, Heej etc can call
me 'liar!', 'idiot', 'moron!', etc...and thats fine, thus I know that
they do not know. Hate cannot understand love. And G-D is love. Yet,
you have judged worse by 1,000 times when you say I 'worship' Paul.
Make that a 1,000 x's 1,000 times worse and more.

I did reject Paul at one time until I understood more of G-D's Plan.
After the millennium comes the 100 years of the last great day when
all the dead will be resurrected and given a chance at salvation; When
Paul quotes Scriptures about those coming days and people having no
understanding of them at all they are lost so they reject him even
when he is directly q-u-o-t-i-n-g these very same Scriptures about
those coming days.

>
> I wasn't really thinking of Lucifer, son of the dawn as separate
> entities personally. To me it's more like a name and surname. In his
> heart he wants to be the morning star but his surname is Son of the
> Dawn. I see Dawn as Satan and so, it is more like, "Messiah, Son of
> Satan" in Christian speak.
>
> Sorry.. I'm going into the rest of your post now but I find it's best
> to get these thoughts out as they come to me. Oh and one other
> thing... That Genesis passage I pointed out..
>
> See, I have such reverance for the word of Elohim that I attempt to
> leave what the scribes put in there words..
>
> So, while I put "waters under the bottom heaven" in modern terms I
> would say "waters under the lower atmosphere". That in effect agrees
> with your understanding.
>
> With humble respect,
>
> Snow
>
> It is the quality of our work which will please God and not the
> quantity.
> Mohandas Gandhi
>
> Gandhi was a favorite of mine to... would love to see that picture

> some day. Not as Christ but I do respect his wisdom.- Hide quoted text -

[Abrams1117]

On Nov 19, 10:37 am, " ::: good news :::" <veral...@lycos.com> wrote:
> Innews:275b9512-cb77-4335...@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com,
> Abrams1117 <John1...@peoplepc.com> typed:

> ::: vera :::- Hide quoted text -

Hi Vera,

I have Hindu friends of over 30 years and they are 'family'.

And yet Hindus and Muslims 'are' deceived. When Jesus Christ comes to
rule the Earth everyone will learn the truth and 'Allah' will be no
more. Until then we should all live in peace, even on this forum, and
be civil to each other.

[guardian Snow]

On Nov 20, 5:37 am, " ::: good news :::" <veral...@lycos.com> wrote:
> Innews:275b9512-cb77-4335...@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com,

> Abrams1117 <John1...@peoplepc.com> typed:

I just hope somebody doesn't think Ghandi is Lucifer. (The topic) I
mean, India is no where near Assyria! I do agree with a lot of his
wisdom and it very "Christian".

Smile,

Snow

Politeness, n: The most acceptable hypocrisy.
Ambrose Bierce

[Debra]

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Abrams 117 says

> My favorite Gandhi quote, 'I am a Muslim, and a Hindu, and a
> Christian, and a Jew, and so are all of you.'

Which is in direct contradiction to Torah...G-d's laws, commandments,
precepts, etc...Interesting...I guess I don't know your personal
beliefs at this point.

But it does line up with the Universalism the "modern church" is
embracing by incorporating what we call New Age, etc...it is the
incorporation of these Muslim and Hindu beliefs, etc... they slipped
through the door of the "churches" with "Christian Terminology"...and
have been embraced by those not seeking G-d to show them if they are
following any false teaching... I think everyone should seek G-d and
continually seek him to be sure they are not...Reading his word and
praying for his wisdom, discernment, knowledge and understanding.

The Mantras, The Prayer Labyrinths or Prayer Paths, The Contemplative
Prayers, etc... a good sight to read about this is called Lighthouse
Trails...I don't agree with all they teach because I have realized the
falseness of the Apostle Paul...but they do expose how this is in what
we call the "Chrisitian Churches" of various denominations.

http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/contemplativespirituality.htm

http://www.lighthousetrails.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=LTP&Category_Code=AU

I have read A Time of Departing, For Many Shall Come in My Name, On
The Other Side of the River, and Running Against the Wind

Very personal to me because the people I personally care about where I
live are in these churches being exposed to and participating in the
practices this group is warning about...They even mention Simpson
University...Which is a huge part of my towns "chrisitan educational
seminary"...etc...and they are misleading so many...Many of my former
"pastors" are very influential at this University...and it was very
educational as G-d taught me through his word to see that these men
were leading the masses in the church in Spiritual Adultery to him.

The blind leading the blind....But I know G-d will cause eyes to be
opened...and some will see the truth.

They do expose practices Christians are many times unknowingly doing
and that have been forbidden by YHWH in the Torah and Tanakh.

I found it interesting that Gandhi has played a huge role in joining
world religions...I did not know that until I just read about it
today.

Debra

[::: good news :::]

In
news:56c093f7-f85a-42ea...@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com,
Abrams1117 <John...@peoplepc.com> typed:

Sorry for my misspelling Gandhi.

>> did not fight but used peaceful means to
>> stop a war.
>>
>> Something we can learn from.
>>
>> I have a Hindu friend (of thirteen years of age), and they have
>> several good things in their faith. The problem is not to honor
>> this, but to know that their gods are not G-d, and that they believe
>> in a lie. There is just One G-d.
>>
>> ::: vera :::- Hide quoted text -
>
> Hi Vera,
>
> I have Hindu friends of over 30 years and they are 'family'.
>
> And yet Hindus and Muslims 'are' deceived. When Jesus Christ comes to
> rule the Earth everyone will learn the truth and 'Allah' will be no
> more. Until then we should all live in peace, even on this forum, and
> be civil to each other.

That is right. I fully agree. G-d loves all the people and wants them
all to come to full the full knowledge. We can give witness of our faith
and spread the Gospel, and we can pray for the people, but it is not our
right to force them into our views. G-d will touch those whom He wants
to touch, that is what I believe.

::: vera :::

[Abrams1117]

On Nov 19, 10:37 am, " ::: good news :::" <veral...@lycos.com> wrote:
> Innews:275b9512-cb77-4335...@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com,

> Abrams1117 <John1...@peoplepc.com> typed:

This worked against the British because they are not evil.

What would have happened if this was tried against the Nazis?

This would be planet 'Hitler'.

Many people do not realise his plan. He was going to rule the Earth -
all of it.

He designed the Capitol of Earth with a long wide street lined with
ever larger matching building on either side until you reach the
largest building, the Capitol at the end - with his office on top.
Each year representatives from each nation were to walk down that
street to pay tribute to him.

If he listened to his generals and invaded Britain this Capitol might
exist now.

Today there would be no Jews. Also he said 'the Jews are ALMOST as bad
as the blacks'. There would be no dark skin people on Earth.
Eventually it would be German only. Then they would ask 'How German
are YOU?'

WWII was a necessary evil. Non-violence would not work against him.

There were many 'miracles' in WWII, such as the miracle of Britain
that gave us victory. G-D has His own plans.....

The coming war will not be one of 'non-violence'.....

Revelation 19:19-21:
19:19: And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their
armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the
horse, and against his army.
19:20: And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that
wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had
received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image.
These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with
brimstone.
19:21: And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon
the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls
were filled with their flesh.

Zechariah 14:12:
And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the
people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume
away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume
away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their
mouth.

Zechariah 14:9:
And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall
there be one LORD, and his name one.

>
> I have a Hindu friend (of thirteen years of age), and they have several
> good things in their faith. The problem is not to honor this, but to
> know that their gods are not G-d, and that they believe in a lie. There
> is just One G-d.
>

> ::: vera :::- Hide quoted text -

[Abrams1117]

On Nov 19, 11:12 am, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:

When I saw that you posted to this thread I knew you were calling me
on this.

Gandhi spoke out of love, not judging or asuming someone else to be
evil or ignorant.

What he said was 'beautiful'; we are all the same 'people' no one is
beter than anyone else. He wasn't saying that everyone had to worship
as a Christian, and as a Jew and as Muslim and as a Hindu -and this
point is 100% obvious - there is no doubt that he did NOT mean for
everyone to worship each way.

I believe he will enter into G-D's Kingdom, if only I were lucky
enough to be close behind him.

You won't understand this either, but thats ok. G-D has it all under
control.

> But it does line up with the Universalism the "modern church" is
> embracing by incorporating what we call New Age, etc...it is the
> incorporation of these Muslim and Hindu beliefs, etc... they slipped
> through the door of the "churches" with "Christian Terminology"...and
> have been embraced by those not seeking G-d to show them if they are
> following any false teaching... I think everyone should seek G-d and
> continually seek him to be sure they are not...Reading his word and
> praying for his wisdom, discernment, knowledge and understanding.
>
> The Mantras, The Prayer Labyrinths or Prayer Paths, The Contemplative
> Prayers, etc... a good sight to read about this is called Lighthouse
> Trails...I don't agree with all they teach because I have realized the
> falseness of the Apostle Paul...but they do expose how this is in what
> we call the "Chrisitian Churches" of various denominations.
>
> http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/contemplativespirituality.htm
>

> http://www.lighthousetrails.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&St...

>
> I have read A Time of Departing, For Many Shall Come in My Name, On
> The Other Side of the River, and Running Against the Wind
>
> Very personal to me because the people I personally care about where I
> live are in these churches being exposed to and participating in the
> practices this group is warning about...They even mention Simpson
> University...Which is a huge part of my towns "chrisitan educational
> seminary"...etc...and they are misleading so many...Many of my former
> "pastors" are very influential at this University...and it was very
> educational as G-d taught me through his word to see that these men
> were leading the masses in the church in Spiritual Adultery to him.
>
> The blind leading the blind....But I know G-d will cause eyes to be
> opened...and some will see the truth.
>
> They do expose practices Christians are many times unknowingly doing
> and that have been forbidden by YHWH in the Torah and Tanakh.
>
> I found it interesting that Gandhi has played a huge role in joining
> world religions...I did not know that until I just read about it
> today.
>

[Abrams1117]

Matthew 10:16:
Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye
therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

[Debra]

> Ambrose Bierce- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Yes...the original topic is Lucifer...and it will be discussed as the
original topic...

Gandhi, however ties into the big picture perspective as a historical
religious leader...who has apparently promoted some of the ecumenical
thinking that is now accepted within the "modern church"...His
political influence seems to have been huge?

And if there is an AntiChrist setting a stage for something...Perhaps
Gandhi played a part in the history of putting it all
together...Looking at the big picture of how society becomes accepting
of various religious views and tolerance...tolerance for all religions
and the blending of their doctrines.

For YHWH's people...He has a different Commandments for the people who
are called his people...and in the Ten Commandments we shall have no
other gods before him...

Those who will come out of the Mystery Babylon System of
Churches...and who will repent and turn to YHWH will have to undo some
of that tolerant thinking as they learn how YHWH thinks... as being
acceptable for their personal religious views.

To do that...People should read what we call the entire OT seeking
him...Something I have learned is that many do not ever or have never
read through the entire OT...It shows who G-d is...His character...His
expectations of his people...and the prophetic things that will
happen.

On a side note here:

Author quotes:

> Politeness, n: The most acceptable hypocrisy.

> Ambrose Bierce- Hide quoted text -

Debra thinks:
Being polite should have a genuineness behind it...not a hypocritical
attitude although one appears polite

Let's see what the Bible says about hypocrites/hypocrisy

Job 8:13
So are the paths of all that forget God; and the hypocrite's hope
shall perish:
Job 8:12-14 (in Context) Job 8 (Whole Chapter)
Job 13:16
He also shall be my salvation: for an hypocrite shall not come before
him.
Job 13:15-17 (in Context) Job 13 (Whole Chapter)
Job 15:34
For the congregation of hypocrites shall be desolate, and fire shall
consume the tabernacles of bribery.
Job 15:33-35 (in Context) Job 15 (Whole Chapter)
Job 17:8
Upright men shall be astonied at this, and the innocent shall stir up
himself against the hypocrite.
Job 17:7-9 (in Context) Job 17 (Whole Chapter)
Job 20:5
That the triumphing of the wicked is short, and the joy of the
hypocrite but for a moment?
Job 20:4-6 (in Context) Job 20 (Whole Chapter)
Job 27:8

For what is the hope of the hypocrite, though he hath gained, when God
taketh away his soul?

Job 27:7-9 (in Context) Job 27 (Whole Chapter)
Job 34:30
That the hypocrite reign not, lest the people be ensnared.
Job 34:29-31 (in Context) Job 34 (Whole Chapter)
Job 36:13
But the hypocrites in heart heap up wrath: they cry not when he
bindeth them.
Job 36:12-14 (in Context) Job 36 (Whole Chapter)
Proverbs 11:9
An hypocrite with his mouth destroyeth his neighbour: but through
knowledge shall the just be delivered.
Proverbs 11:8-10 (in Context) Proverbs 11 (Whole Chapter)
Isaiah 9:17
Therefore the LORD shall have no joy in their young men, neither shall
have mercy on their fatherless and widows: for every one is an
hypocrite and an evildoer, and every mouth speaketh folly. For all
this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out
still.
Isaiah 9:16-18 (in Context) Isaiah 9 (Whole Chapter)
Isaiah 33:14
The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the
hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who
among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
Isaiah 33:13-15 (in Context) Isaiah 33 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 6:2
Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before
thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that
they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their
reward.
Matthew 6:1-3 (in Context) Matthew 6 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 6:5
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for
they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the
streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They
have their reward.
Matthew 6:4-6 (in Context) Matthew 6 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 6:16
Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad
countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto
men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
Matthew 6:15-17 (in Context) Matthew 6 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 7:5
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then
shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
Matthew 7:4-6 (in Context) Matthew 7 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 15:7
Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
Matthew 15:6-8 (in Context) Matthew 15 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 16:3
And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red
and lowering. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but
can ye not discern the signs of the times?
Matthew 16:2-4 (in Context) Matthew 16 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 22:18
But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye
hypocrites?
Matthew 22:17-19 (in Context) Matthew 22 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 23:13
But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up
the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves,
neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Matthew 23:12-14 (in Context) Matthew 23 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 23:14
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows'
houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall
receive the greater damnation.
Matthew 23:13-15 (in Context) Matthew 23 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 23:15
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea
and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him
twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Matthew 23:14-16 (in Context) Matthew 23 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 23:23
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of
mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of
the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and
not to leave the other undone.
Matthew 23:22-24 (in Context) Matthew 23 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 23:25
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the
outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of
extortion and excess.
Matthew 23:24-26 (in Context) Matthew 23 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 23:27
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto
whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are
within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Matthew 23:26-28 (in Context) Matthew 23 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 23:29
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the
tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
Matthew 23:28-30 (in Context) Matthew 23 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 24:51
And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the
hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 24:50-51 (in Context) Matthew 24 (Whole Chapter)
Mark 7:6
He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you
hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their
lips, but their heart is far from me.
Mark 7:5-7 (in Context) Mark 7 (Whole Chapter)
Luke 6:42
Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the
mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam
that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out
of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote
that is in thy brother's eye.
Luke 6:41-43 (in Context) Luke 6 (Whole Chapter)
Luke 11:44
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves
which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of
them.
Luke 11:43-45 (in Context) Luke 11 (Whole Chapter)
Luke 12:56
Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth;
but how is it that ye do not discern this time?
Luke 12:55-57 (in Context) Luke 12 (Whole Chapter)
Luke 13:15
The Lord then answered him, and said, Thou hypocrite, doth not each
one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass from the stall, and
lead him away to watering?
Luke 13:14-16 (in Context) Luke 13 (Whole Chapter)
Isaiah 32:6
For the vile person will speak villany, and his heart will work
iniquity, to practise hypocrisy, and to utter error against the LORD,
to make empty the soul of the hungry, and he will cause the drink of
the thirsty to fail.
Isaiah 32:5-7 (in Context) Isaiah 32 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 23:28
Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are
full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
Matthew 23:27-29 (in Context) Matthew 23 (Whole Chapter)
Mark 12:15
Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy,
said unto them, Why tempt ye me? bring me a penny, that I may see it.
Mark 12:14-16 (in Context) Mark 12 (Whole Chapter)
Luke 12:1
In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable
multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he
began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven
of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.
Luke 12:1-3 (in Context) Luke 12 (Whole Chapter)
James 3:17
But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable,
gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits,
without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
James 3:16-18 (in Context) James 3 (Whole Chapter)

[Debra]

Abram...You are right that I "won't understand" because obedience to
YHWH and following his word trumps this deception in the "churches"...

Deception looks nice, sounds nice, tastes nice, etc... but if it isn't
from YHWH...and if YHWH is your G-d...Then it is him you follow...

He will have NO OTHER gods BEFORE HIM...Hindu gods included...for
those who are called "his people"...

as I said...I am looking at the big picture of people around the world
being deceived...and the people who will come out of these
"churches"...

and no...I wasn't thinking of you...I was thinking of the original
author of this post who quotes all these worldly wisdoms when Gandhi's
wisdom in fact contradicts G-d's wisdom if we take the time to compare
it to the Scriptures...which is the truth for the people of the G-d of
the whole nation of Israel whereever they may be.

You believe he will enter into G-ds Kingdom?? Interesting.

Debra

[guardian Snow]

On Nov 20, 6:56 am, Abrams1117 <John1...@peoplepc.com> wrote:

You know, the beauty of the killfile for me is that I get to miss how
she's about to explain how she's more righteous then Gandhi. I'll
roll with the punches here and play along.

Is Gandhi AntiChrist?

[Debra]

On Nov 19, 10:37�am, " ::: good news :::" <veral...@lycos.com> wrote:
> Innews:275b9512-cb77-4335...@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com,

> Abrams1117 <John1...@peoplepc.com> typed:

> � �::: vera :::- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Vera says:
> What I honor is that Ghandi did not fight but used peaceful means to
> stop a war.

Debra questions:
How did G-d fight his wars...How will he fight the end times war? When
he judges the world?

Debra

[Debra]

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Abrams 117 says:
> We can learn from each other....if you 'learn' anything from talking
> with me I hope it is not to judge

Debra says:
There is a difference between righteous judgment and "judmentalism"

The Bible says regarding righteous judgment...Even among G-d's people
Genesis 18:25
That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous
with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that
be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

Leviticus 19:15
Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the
person of the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty: but in
righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.

Deuteronomy 1:16
And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes
between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his
brother, and the stranger that is with him.

Deuteronomy 25:1
If there be a controversy between men, and they come unto judgment,
that the judges may judge them; then they shall justify the righteous,
and condemn the wicked.

1 Kings 8:32
Then hear thou in heaven, and do, and judge thy servants, condemning
the wicked, to bring his way upon his head; and justifying the
righteous, to give him according to his righteousness.

2 Chronicles 6:23
Then hear thou from heaven, and do, and judge thy servants, by
requiting the wicked, by recompensing his way upon his own head; and
by justifying the righteous, by giving him according to his
righteousness.

Job 9:15
Whom, though I were righteous, yet would I not answer, but I would
make supplication to my judge.

Job 23:7
There the righteous might dispute with him; so should I be delivered
for ever from my judge.

Psalm 7:8
The LORD shall judge the people: judge me, O LORD, according to my
righteousness, and according to mine integrity that is in me.

Psalm 7:11
God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.

Psalm 9:8
And he shall judge the world in righteousness, he shall minister
judgment to the people in uprightness.

Psalm 35:24
Judge me, O LORD my God, according to thy righteousness; and let them
not rejoice over me.

Psalm 50:6
And the heavens shall declare his righteousness: for God is judge
himself. Selah.

Psalm 58:1
Do ye indeed speak righteousness, O congregation? do ye judge
uprightly, O ye sons of men?

Psalm 58:11
So that a man shall say, Verily there is a reward for the righteous:
verily he is a God that judgeth in the earth.

Psalm 67:4
O let the nations be glad and sing for joy: for thou shalt judge the
people righteously, and govern the nations upon earth. Selah.

Psalm 72:2
He shall judge thy people with righteousness, and thy poor with
judgment.

Psalm 96:10
Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be
established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people
righteously.

Psalm 96:13
Before the LORD: for he cometh, for he cometh to judge the earth: he
shall judge the world with righteousness, and the people with his
truth.

Psalm 98:9
Before the LORD; for he cometh to judge the earth: with righteousness
shall he judge the world, and the people with equity.

Proverbs 31:9
Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and
needy.

Ecclesiastes 3:17
I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked:
for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.

Isaiah 1:26
And I will restore thy judges as at the first, and thy counsellors as
at the beginning: afterward thou shalt be called, The city of
righteousness, the faithful city.

Isaiah 11:4
But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with
equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with
the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay
the wicked.

Isaiah 51:5
My righteousness is near; my salvation is gone forth, and mine arms
shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon me, and on mine arm
shall they trust.

Jeremiah 11:20
But, O LORD of hosts, that judgest righteously, that triest the reins
and the heart, let me see thy vengeance on them: for unto thee have I
revealed my cause.

Ezekiel 16:52
Thou also, which hast judged thy sisters, bear thine own shame for thy
sins that thou hast committed more abominable than they: they are more
righteous than thou: yea, be thou confounded also, and bear thy shame,
in that thou hast justified thy sisters.

Ezekiel 23:45
And the righteous men, they shall judge them after the manner of
adulteresses, and after the manner of women that shed blood; because
they are adulteresses, and blood is in their hands.

John 7:24
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Acts 17:31
Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world
in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath
given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the
dead..

1 Peter 2:23
Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he
threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

Revelation 16:5
And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord,
which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.

Revelation 19:2
For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great
whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath
avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

Revelation 19:11
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat
upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth
judge and make war.

[Abrams1117]

Debra is very fierce in her beliefs. For me its 'too much'.

When I read prophecies I notice that many of them are written in the
'past tense'. When Isaiah wrote about Jesus Christ he wrote much of
them in the past tense. Like the Prophet David, he actually 'saw'
these events - before they happened.
Everything written 'will happen' exactly as written. Even if everyone
got together and tried to change even part of a prophecy 'we' could
not.

Its already a 'done deal'.

G-D is in control and everything will happen exactly according to His
Plan. Theres no need to offend, condemn, judge or attack.

G-D is more forgiving than we. The day is coming when all the graves
will be opened and all will have a chance at salvation.

Love G-D with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself.

[Abrams1117]

On Nov 19, 12:15 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:

Which church teaches Gandhi?

> Deception looks nice, sounds nice, tastes nice, etc... but if it isn't
> from YHWH...and if YHWH is your G-d...Then it is him you follow...
>
> He will have NO OTHER gods BEFORE HIM...Hindu gods included...for
> those who are called "his people"...
>

Exactly how many Christian Hindus do you know?

> as I said...I am looking at the big picture of people around the world
> being deceived...and the people who will come out of these
> "churches"...
>

There will be deceived people until Jesus Christ comes to rule the
Earth; just as there will be poor people until then.

> and no...I wasn't thinking of you...

This was to me and when I saw that you had posted I knew you had
posted about this point:

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

> Abrams 117 says
> > My favorite Gandhi quote, 'I am a Muslim, and a Hindu, and a
> > Christian, and a Jew, and so are all of you.'

> Which is in direct contradiction to Torah...G-d's laws, commandments,
> precepts, etc...Interesting...I guess I don't know your personal
> beliefs at this point.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

>I was thinking of the original
> author of this post who quotes all these worldly wisdoms when Gandhi's
> wisdom in fact contradicts G-d's wisdom if we take the time to compare
> it to the Scriptures...which is the truth for the people of the G-d of
> the whole nation of Israel whereever they may be.
>
> You believe he will enter into G-ds Kingdom?? Interesting.
>
> Debra

You tell G-D He cannot let Hitler in.

There will be 'surprises' both on his right side and on his left.

A minister told me that the most famous minister on Earth said he
lies to people about what the bible says because they wouldn't listen
to him if he told them the truth. If he ends up on the left side it
would shock many people. Almighty G-D is not fooled.

[Abrams1117]

On Nov 19, 12:42 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:

> > I have a Hindu friend (of thirteen ?years of age), and they have several

> > good things in their faith. The problem is not to honor this, but to
> > know that their gods are not G-d, and that they believe in a lie. There
> > is just One G-d.
>

> > ? ?::: vera :::- Hide quoted text -

>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Vera says:
>
> > What I honor is that Ghandi did not fight but used peaceful means to
> > stop a war.
>
> Debra questions:
> How did G-d fight his wars...How will he fight the end times war? When
> he judges the world?
>

> Debra-

Gandhi was right about peace; the allies were right about war; Jesus
Christ will destroy all the armies that attack Jerusalem.

There is a time for war and a time for peace.

[Debra]

On Nov 19, 11:12�am, " ::: good news :::" <veral...@lycos.com> wrote:
> Innews:56c093f7-f85a-42ea...@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com,

> � �::: vera :::- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>

> - Show quoted text -

Vera says:
> That is right. I fully agree. G-d loves all the people and wants them
> all to come to full the full knowledge.

The Old Testament states

Psalm 7:11
God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.

Psalm 7:10-12 (in Context) Psalm 7 (Whole Chapter)

Debra questions
Repentance is important for those who will repent and turn to G-d and
who learn his ways...

What about the wicked who don't repent? Does he love them? How will he
judge them? Did he love the heathen he drove out and had the
Israelites kill in the Old Testament? How is that different now?

Debra

[Abrams1117]

On Nov 19, 12:54 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:

> On Nov 19, 10:49?am, Abrams1117 <John1...@peoplepc.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 19, 1:25 am, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 19, 7:47 pm, Abrams1117 <John1...@peoplepc.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Nov 18, 11:57 pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Nov 19, 12:39 pm, Abrams1117 <John1...@peoplepc.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > The morning star simply refers to the throne of the Earth.
>

> > > > > I tend to see it differently. ?The difference between "morning star"

> > > > > and "Son of the Dawn" is perspective.
>
> > > > > While one is a heavenly body the son of the Dawn is on earth looking
> > > > > at and emulating the morning star.
>
> > > > > Does that make any sense?
>
> > > > > With respect,
>
> > > > > Snow
>
> > > > > Anger and intolerance are the enemies of correct understanding.
> > > > > Mohandas Gandhi
>
> > > > The word 'heaven' in Isaiah 14:12 could mean either 'heaven' or
> > > > 'Heaven':
>
> > > > Strong's Hebrew Definition for # 08064
>

> > > > ?08064 // Mymv // shamayim // shaw-mah'-yim // dual of an unused

> > > entities personally. ?To me it's more like a name and surname. ?In his

> > > heart he wants to be the morning star but his surname is Son of the

> > > Dawn. ?I see Dawn as Satan and so, it is more like, "Messiah, Son of

> > > Satan" in Christian speak.
>
> > > Sorry.. I'm going into the rest of your post now but I find it's best
> > > to get these thoughts out as they come to me. Oh and one other
> > > thing... That Genesis passage I pointed out..
>
> > > See, I have such reverance for the word of Elohim that I attempt to
> > > leave what the scribes put in there words..
>
> > > So, while I put "waters under the bottom heaven" in modern terms I

> > > would say "waters under the lower atmosphere". ?That in effect agrees

> judge and make war.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Luke 6:36-38:
6:36: Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
6:37: Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall
not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
6:38: Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed
down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your
bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be
measured to you again.

[Debra]

You know the beauty of "killfile" is that he doesn't get to read G-d's
word...Then again... Maybe he is "peeking anyway".

Did "she explain how she's more righteous than Gandhi" or did she
share Scripture refuting Gandhi's "wisdom"

Debra

[Abrams1117]

On Nov 19, 1:09 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:

> > >> I have a Hindu friend (of thirteen ?years of age), and they have

> > >> several good things in their faith. The problem is not to honor
> > >> this, but to know that their gods are not G-d, and that they believe
> > >> in a lie. There is just One G-d.
>

> > >> ? ?::: vera :::- Hide quoted text -

>
> > > Hi Vera,
>
> > > I have Hindu friends of over 30 years and they are 'family'.
>
> > > And yet Hindus and Muslims 'are' deceived. When Jesus Christ comes to
> > > rule the Earth everyone will learn the truth and 'Allah' will be no
> > > more. Until then we should all live in peace, even on this forum, and
> > > be civil to each other.
>
> > That is right. I fully agree. G-d loves all the people and wants them
> > all to come to full the full knowledge. We can give witness of our faith
> > and spread the Gospel, and we can pray for the people, but it is not our
> > right to force them into our views. G-d will touch those whom He wants
> > to touch, that is what I believe.
>

> > ? ?::: vera :::- Hide quoted text -

>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Vera says:
>
> > That is right. I fully agree. G-d loves all the people and wants them
> > all to come to full the full knowledge.
>
> The Old Testament states
> Psalm 7:11
> God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.
> Psalm 7:10-12 (in Context) Psalm 7 (Whole Chapter)
>
> Debra questions
> Repentance is important for those who will repent and turn to G-d and
> who learn his ways...
>

> What about the wicked who don't repent?

If Jesus Christ were living on the Earth and ruling from Jerusalem
having all the armies of Heaven with him and no more wars, famine,
disease, or poverty how many would be wicked?

If every time someone thought to do evil they heard a voice
commanding them not to do it - how many would sin?

If a lake of fire burned continually reminding people of the fate of
the wicked would people be scared to sin?

If G-D resurrected all the dead under these conditions how many would
choose to be evil?

G-D will not condemn anyone sinply because they lived and died in
'China' and never even heard the name of Jesus Christ. HIS Plan is one
of love.

>Does he love them? How will he> judge them?

You have made my point, here, and in several Scriptures that you have
posted that plainly say Almighty G-D will judge.

Judge not.

Did he love the heathen he drove out and had the
> Israelites kill in the Old Testament? How is that different now?
>

> Debra- Hide quoted text -

[Debra]

Abrahms 117 says:
> Debra is very fierce in her beliefs. For me its 'too much'.

and

> Love G-D with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself.

Oh yes Abrams...I am fierce in what I believe because I myself sat in
DISOBEDIENCE AND DECEPTION to G-ds ways for many years in the "modern
church"...I was chastised...and I have come out of the false church
system...and I cried out to G-d to show me if I was following any
false teaching...Perhaps you have never been chastised...Not a fun
thing to go through...I had a Job moment for a couple of months a
couple of years ago...and it brought me to repentance...and it brought
me to TRUTH...Psalm 119...and chastisement teaches you to
FEAR G-D!!!

Mark always quotes Psalm 19

They both speak of the TRUTH of G-d's Torah.

I realize he will not fogive unrepentance.

And if I love my neighbor as I love myself...Chastisment is the best
thing that ever happened to me although it has caused alot of life
consequences...I will try to point out truth whether or not it is the
"popular belief" in the churches or not...I know it is all in G-ds
hands...In the last days sons and daughters shall prophesy...so if I
believe I see an error in thinking that we have in our society been
"trained to believe"...through the churches, through the schools,
through the media, through the government, etc, all through
history...then I will show Scripture that speaks in direct
contradiction to those "beliefs and tolerance of beliefs people have
been trained to believe"

BECAUSE G-D'S TORAH IS TRUTH.

We have not been trained up in the way we should go...We have been
trained up in deceptive church systems.

Proverbs 22:6 says...Train up a child in the way he should go: and
when he is old he will not depart from it.

Funny thing is...like I said...We were trained up in many false
teachings...So G-d will take us on paths we have never
known...Chastising us...and teaching us HIS TRUTH...WITH HIS SPIRIT.

Debra

[Debra]

Abrams 117 says:
> Exactly how many Christian Hindus do you know?

Debra replies:
I do not know people who profess to be "Christian Hindus"...

I do know in my community of 50 something churches that are
ecumenically linked...They are indeed practicing some of the teaching
of Hinduism, etc that has been stealth moded into the church through
the church growth movements such as Purpose Driven and Emerging along
with the New Age...and they have been putting aside their differences
and joining together for over a decade now...I participated in many
ministries...So I know firsthand...and had to repent as I went through
the Old Testament and realized all of these false teachings I myself
had followed in ignorance.

The point is not that they profess to be "Christian Hindus"...the
point is that they are deceived and partaking in Hindu practices that
have crept into the "churches"

Read the Lighthouse Trails site...Ask G-d to show you himself...Read
his word...He will reveal it if you seek him and ask him to show you
if this is in the "Christian Churches"

I am not telling G-d who he will or won't let in...He is the RIGHTEOUS
JUDGE OF THOSE WHO LIVE REPENTANT LIVES AND TURN TO HIM.

Did Gandhi? Doesn't appear he did.

Did Hitler? Doesn't appear he did

He shows us in his word how the righteous should be living according
to his word.

Debra

[guardian Snow]

On Nov 20, 8:25 am, Abrams1117 <John1...@peoplepc.com> wrote:

> Judge not.

Thought I'd share some quotes since we both enjoy his wisdom.

A coward is incapable of exhibiting love; it is the prerogative of the
brave. A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he
becomes.

A nation's culture resides in the hearts and in the soul of its
people. A policy is a temporary creed liable to be changed, but while
it holds good it has got to be pursued with apostolic zeal.

A principle is the expression of perfection, and as imperfect beings
like us cannot practise perfection, we devise every moment limits of
its compromise in practice.

A religion that takes no account of practical affairs and does not
help to solve them is no religion.

A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in
their mission can alter the course of history.

A weak man is just by accident. A strong but non-violent man is unjust
by accident.

A man who was completely innocent, offered himself as a sacrifice for
the good of others, including his enemies, and became the ransom of
the world. It was a perfect act.
Mohandas Gandhi

[Abrams1117]

On Nov 19, 1:31 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:

> On Nov 19, 12:56?pm, Abrams1117 <John1...@peoplepc.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 19, 12:28 pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 20, 6:56 am, Abrams1117 <John1...@peoplepc.com> wrote:
>
> > > You know, the beauty of the killfile for me is that I get to miss how

> > > she's about to explain how she's more righteous then Gandhi. ?I'll

> > > roll with the punches here and play along.
>
> > > Is Gandhi AntiChrist?
>
> > Debra is very fierce in her beliefs. For me its 'too much'.
>

> > ?When I read prophecies I notice that many of them are written in the
> > 'past tense'. ?When Isaiah wrote about Jesus Christ he wrote much of

> > them in the past tense. Like the Prophet David, he actually 'saw'
> > these events - before they happened.

> > ?Everything written 'will happen' exactly as written. Even if everyone

> > got together and tried to change even part of a prophecy 'we' could
> > not.
>
> > Its already a 'done deal'.
>

> > ?G-D is in control and everything will happen exactly according to His

> > Plan. Theres no need to offend, condemn, judge or attack.
>

> > ?G-D is more forgiving than we. The day is coming when all the graves

I agree with all of this.

If anyone used Gandhi's words as 'doctrine' or said they came 'from'
G-D I would be first in line to condemn that belief.

There are countless 'good' people (Only G-D is good) that aren't
Christians. G-D will not condemn them but give them a chance at
salvation.

We are not to 'judge' anyone.

That doesnt mean if we see someone beating another person to death we
arent to stop them or when PD threatens someone with physical violence
we are to ignore it; it means we are not to 'judge' them - to act as
their judge - G-D is our judge, every knee will bend and every mouth
will confess before G-D Almighty.

Point out the mistakes but don't judge 'the person'.

G-D will do that.

As for the churches....

The world pictures Jesus Christ as a helpless baby or dead on a
cross; the world wears crosss on chains or hung on a wall; the world
keeps Sunday holy; the world believes that the saved go to Heaven at
death and the evil burn in hell forever at death; the world prays to
the dead - all of these teachings come from the deceiver of the world.
Thats why he has that name.

Point out the mistakes with Scripture.

Who knows if that person won't see the truth a year from now - if -
they are not 'judged' harshly?

By judging 'you' may be responsible for pushing them AWAY from the
truth.

- Hide quoted text -
>

[Debra]

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Abrams 117

> Gandhi was right about peace; the allies were right about war;

Here is another big picture thinking...ironically...the Paul teaching
of "peace"...but the peace Gandhi was trying to bring was not
necessarily bad works...but it was a false peace he was a part of
orchestrating in history before the Messiah appears...and he served
the false Hindu gods his entire life according to those who record
about his life...

Daniel prophecies about Peace...the destruction brought about through
peace...So even "peace" seeming "good" can be "deceptive"

Daniel 8:24-26

24And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he
shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall
destroy the mighty and the holy people.

25And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his
hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and BY PEACE HE SHALL
DESTROY MANY: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes;
but he shall be broken without hand.

26And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is
true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many
days.

Daniel 11:20-25 (King James Version)

20Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the glory of
the kingdom: but within few days he shall be destroyed, neither in
anger, nor in battle.

21And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, TO WHOM THEY SHALL
GIVE THE HONOUR OF THE KINGDOM: BUT HE SHALL COME IN PEACEABLY, and
obtain THE KINGDOM BY FLATTERIES.

22And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before
him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.

23And after the league made with him HE SHALL WORK DECEITFULLY: for he
shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.

24HE SHALL ENTER PEACEABLY even upon the fattest places of the
province; and he shall do that which his fathers have not done, nor
his fathers' fathers; he shall scatter among them the prey, and spoil,
and riches: yea, and he shall forecast his devices against the strong
holds, even for a time.

25And he shall stir up his power and his courage against the king of
the south with a great army; and the king of the south shall be
stirred up to battle with a very great and mighty army; but he shall
not stand: for they shall forecast devices against him.

Ephesians 6:15...PAUL'S PEACE GOSPEL...Different from repent for the
kingdom of heaven is near... AND in the modern church movements we
have Rick Warren's PEACE Plan...and the United Nations PEACE Plan...I
have to go back and look again...but I think in those links I posted
about Gandhi he was involved in the UN somehow...Will have to go look
again.

15And your feet shod with the preparation of the GOSPEL OF PEACE;

Micah 7:5-7

5Trust ye not in a friend, put ye not confidence in a guide: keep the
doors of thy mouth from her that lieth in thy bosom.

6For the son dishonoureth the father, the daughter riseth up against
her mother, the daughter in law against her mother in law; a man's
enemies are the men of his own house.

7Therefore I will look unto the LORD; I will wait for the God of my
salvation: my God will hear me.

Matthew 10:34-36

34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send
peace, but a sword.

35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the
daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her
mother in law.

36And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

[Abrams1117]

On Nov 19, 1:39 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:

> > ?A minister told me that the most famous minister on Earth said he

> > lies to people about what the bible says because they wouldn't listen
> > to him if he told them the truth. If he ends up on the left side it
> > would shock many people. Almighty G-D is not fooled.
>
> > - Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Abrams 117 says:
>
> > Exactly how many Christian Hindus do you know?
>
> Debra replies:
> I do not know people who profess to be "Christian Hindus"...
>

Neither do I; thats the point. No one said Gandhi's words are
'scripture' or 'doctrine'.

> I do know in my community of 50 something churches that are
> ecumenically linked...They are indeed practicing some of the teaching
> of Hinduism, etc that has been stealth moded into the church through
> the church growth movements such as Purpose Driven and Emerging along
> with the New Age...and they have been putting aside their differences
> and joining together for over a decade now...I participated in many
> ministries...So I know firsthand...and had to repent as I went through
> the Old Testament and realized all of these false teachings I myself
> had followed in ignorance.
>
> The point is not that they profess to be "Christian Hindus"...the
> point is that they are deceived and partaking in Hindu practices that
> have crept into the "churches"
>
> Read the Lighthouse Trails site...Ask G-d to show you himself...Read
> his word...He will reveal it if you seek him and ask him to show you
> if this is in the "Christian Churches"
>

People always assume - and they are usually wrong; thats why it is a
must not to judge.

> I am not telling G-d who he will or won't let in...He is the RIGHTEOUS
> JUDGE OF THOSE WHO LIVE REPENTANT LIVES AND TURN TO HIM.
>
> Did Gandhi? Doesn't appear he did.
>
> Did Hitler? Doesn't appear he did
>

They did not - they may yet still.

> He shows us in his word how the righteous should be living according
> to his word.
>

[Debra]

Yes...Speaking truth again is not judgmental...It is G-d's Word...Do
you think Scripture is too judgmental...The parts we don't want to
hear...That show the truth of whether somebody's actions match or
not...I have simply pointed out that Ganhi's wisdom is in
contradiction to Torah and Tanakh which is G-d's wisdom.

Who is G-d merciful too...Let's go take a look...

In what we call the ten commandments it says...

Exodus 20...verses 4 and 5...says...Thou shalt not bow down thyself to
them, nor serve them: for I the L-RD thy G-d am a JEALOUS G-
D...VISITING THE INIQUITY of the fathers upon the children unto the
THIRD AND FOURTH generation of THEM THAT HATE ME:

And SHOWING MERCY unto THOUSANDS OF THEM THAT LOVE ME AND KEEP MY
COMMANDMENTS.

Deuteronomy 5 recaps the above...

Deuteronomy 5...verses 9-10...says...Thous shalt not bow down thyself
unto them, nor serve them: for I the L-RD thy G-d am a JEALOUS G-
D...VISITING THE INIQUITY of the fathers upon the children unto the
THIRD AND FOURTH generation of THEM THAT HATE ME,

And SHOWING MERCY unto THOUSANDS OF THEM THAT LOVE ME AND KEEP MY
COMMANDMENTS.

Abram...Is Commandment Keeping for today...If so which commandments??

Debra

[Abrams1117]

On Nov 19, 1:49 pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
> On Nov 20, 8:25 am, Abrams1117 <John1...@peoplepc.com> wrote:
>
> > Judge not.
>
> Thought I'd share some quotes since we both enjoy his wisdom.
>
> A coward is incapable of exhibiting love; it is the prerogative of the
> brave. A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he
> becomes.
>
> A nation's culture resides in the hearts and in the soul of its
> people. A policy is a temporary creed liable to be changed, but while
> it holds good it has got to be pursued with apostolic zeal.
>
> A principle is the expression of perfection, and as imperfect beings
> like us cannot practise perfection, we devise every moment limits of
> its compromise in practice.
>
> A religion that takes no account of practical affairs and does not
> help to solve them is no religion.
>
> A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in
> their mission can alter the course of history.
>
> A weak man is just by accident. A strong but non-violent man is unjust
> by accident.
>

Can't argue with this:

[Abrams1117]

On Nov 19, 2:07 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:

> 36And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Gandhi is the anti-Christ, Paul is the anti-Christ....when the real
one shows up you will miss him.

[Debra]

Those questions are soooo though provoking Abram...exactly why I am
taking the prophets against the NT to see what is futristic vs what
has already happened...Seems the prophecies say that when Messiah
comes world peace will truly be ushered in...

It is not here at this point...and not for all the trying of the
people of the world who are trying to alleviate situations of
starvation, homelessness, etc...and there is nothing wrong with those
things...

but a forced world peace before the world peace Messiah ushers in seem
to be two different things.

Debra

[Debra]

On Nov 19, 1:49�pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:

In all those quotes...Where is glory given to YHWH??

Is that what Scripture says??

Debra

[Debra]

On Nov 19, 1:49�pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:

Maybe Mark is a Hindu professing a different faith?

Debra

[guardian Snow]

On Nov 20, 9:22 am, Abrams1117 <John1...@peoplepc.com> wrote:

> Gandhi is the anti-Christ, Paul is the anti-Christ....when the real
> one shows up you will miss him.

So, it goes to question then, are we more righteous then Gandhi?

All compromise is based on give and take, but there can be no give and
take on fundamentals. Any compromise on mere fundamentals is a
surrender. For it is all give and no take.

An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation,
nor does truth become error because nobody sees it.

An eye for eye only ends up making the whole world blind.
Mohandas Gandhi

[Debra]

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Abrams117:

G-D will not condemn them but give them a chance at
salvation.

Where does this appear in Scripture...I am curious if you would please
quote the Scripture that backs up that when we are judged we will have
another chance for salvation

vs we will be judged by the works we did while we are on earth...

I am looking forward to that group of Scriptures...I have heard that
thinking when I checked out what the UCOG believes.

I believe G-d will bring his people to truth...Period...he does
it...We are to speak his truth only.

I do point out mistakes with Scripture...some people don't want to
listen to G-d's Word... G-d does call his people stiffnecked and
rebellious.

Did you read the righteous judgment verses...all of them...they are
about judgment right now while we are living on earth too.

Debra

[Abrams1117]

On Nov 19, 2:19 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:

Not at all. Who said that?

Maybe a simple example will help; Ive been called: idiot! moron! liar!
etc. That is judging 'me'.

That is wrong.

You can post any Scripture, any and all, that refute a false belief -
in fact you have an obligation to do this.

>The parts we don't want to
> hear...That show the truth of whether somebody's actions match or
> not...I have simply pointed out that Ganhi's wisdom is in
> contradiction to Torah and Tanakh which is G-d's wisdom.
>
> Who is G-d merciful too...Let's go take a look...
>
> In what we call the ten commandments it says...
>
> Exodus 20...verses 4 and 5...says...Thou shalt not bow down thyself to
> them, nor serve them: for I the L-RD thy G-d am a JEALOUS G-
> D...VISITING THE INIQUITY of the fathers upon the children unto the
> THIRD AND FOURTH generation of THEM THAT HATE ME:
>
> And SHOWING MERCY unto THOUSANDS OF THEM THAT LOVE ME AND KEEP MY
> COMMANDMENTS.
>
> Deuteronomy 5 recaps the above...
>
> Deuteronomy 5...verses 9-10...says...Thous shalt not bow down thyself
> unto them, nor serve them: for I the L-RD thy G-d am a JEALOUS G-
> D...VISITING THE INIQUITY of the fathers upon the children unto the
> THIRD AND FOURTH generation of THEM THAT HATE ME,
>
> And SHOWING MERCY unto THOUSANDS OF THEM THAT LOVE ME AND KEEP MY
> COMMANDMENTS.
>
> Abram...Is Commandment Keeping for today...If so which commandments??

Trick question?

Love G-D with all your heart, love your neighbor as yourself, and....

Exodus 20:
20:1: And G-D spake all these words, saying,
20:2: I am the LORD thy G-D, which have brought thee out of the land
of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
20:3: Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
20:4: Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness
of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath,
or that is in the water under the earth:
20:5: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I
the LORD thy G-D am a jealous G-D, visiting the iniquity of the
fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them
that hate me;
20:6: And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep
my commandments.
20:7: Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy G-D in vain; for
the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
20:8: Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
20:9: Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
20:10: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy G-D: in it
thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy
manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that
is within thy gates:
20:11: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and
all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD
blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
20:12: Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long
upon the land which the LORD thy G-D giveth thee.
20:13: Thou shalt not kill.
20:14: Thou shalt not commit adultery.
20:15: Thou shalt not steal.
20:16: Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
20:17: Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not
covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant,
nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
20:18: And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and
the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the
people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.

Many people say the Ten Commandments are no longer in effect.

A ruler asked Jesus Christ, "What shall I do to inherit eternal
life?"

Jesus Christ told this ruler that he already knows the commandments.
Then Jesus Christ listed many of the Ten Commandments so there would
be no doubt what commandments he meant.

Thou Knowest the Commandments

Luke 18:18-20:
18:18: And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall
I do to inherit eternal life?
18:19: And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is
good, save one, that is, G-D.
18:20: Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not
kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and
thy mother.

If Ye Love Me

Luke 1:6:
And they were both righteous before G-D, walking in all the
commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

John 14:21:
He that hath my commandments, and kept them, he it is that loft me:
and he that loft me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him,
and will manifest myself to him.

Nehemiah 1:5:
And said, I beseech thee, O LORD G-D of heaven, the great and
terrible G-D, that keepeth covenant and mercy for them that love him
and observe his commandments:

John 14:15:
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

>
> Debra

[Abrams1117]

On Nov 19, 2:25 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:

> > ?If Jesus Christ were living on the Earth and ruling from Jerusalem

> > having all the armies of Heaven with him and no more wars, famine,
> > disease, or poverty how many would be wicked?
>

> > ?If every time someone thought to do evil they heard a voice

> > commanding them not to do it - how many would sin?
>

> > ?If a lake of fire burned continually reminding people of the fate of

> > the wicked would people be scared to sin?
>
> > If G-D resurrected all the dead under these conditions how many would
> > choose to be evil?
>

> > ?G-D will not condemn anyone sinply because they lived and died in

> > 'China' and never even heard the name of Jesus Christ. HIS Plan is one
> > of love.
>
> > >Does he love them? How will he> judge them?
>

> > ?You have made my point, here, and in several Scriptures that you have

> > posted that plainly say Almighty G-D will judge.
>

> > ?Judge not.

>
> > Did he love the heathen he drove out and had the
>
> > > Israelites kill in the Old Testament? How is that different now?
>
> > > Debra- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Those questions are soooo though provoking Abram...exactly why I am
> taking the prophets against the NT to see what is futristic vs what
> has already happened...Seems the prophecies say that when Messiah
> comes world peace will truly be ushered in...
>
> It is not here at this point...and not for all the trying of the
> people of the world who are trying to alleviate situations of
> starvation, homelessness, etc...and there is nothing wrong with those
> things...
>
> but a forced world peace before the world peace Messiah ushers in seem
> to be two different things.
>
> Debra

I dont see how the Jews going out to meet Alexander the Great (so he
wouldnt come and slaughter them) in hopes of peace was trying to
replace the millennial reign of Jesus Christ. Alexander was shown the
Book of Daniel and recognized his victory over the Persians before it
happened. I dont see how Gandhi saying use peace instead of force to
remove the British was trying to replace the reign of Jesus Christ; I
dont see how Chamberlain, however misguided and foolish; trying to
gain peace with Hitler was trying to replace the reign of Jesus
Christ.

The ambassadors of peace will weep bitterly but that won't change the
fact that Jesus Chrits is coming to rule the Earth as King:

The Kingdom of G-D

In Christ shall all be made alive.

1 Corinthians 15:22:
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

When Jesus Christ comes to rule the Earth Almighty G-D resurrects the
saints. G-D resurrects everyone else after 1,000 years.

Revelation 20:4-6:
20:4: And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was
given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for
the witness of Jesus, and for the word of G-D, and which had not
worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark
upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned
with Christ a thousand years.
20:5: But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand
years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
20:6: Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection:
on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of G-
D and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

* People often call the 1,000 years the saints reign on Earth the
millennium.

The saints surviving the tribulation and the resurrected saints shall
reign with Jesus Christ as kings and priests.

Revelation 1:6:
And hath made us kings and priests unto G-D and his Father; to him be
glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

They Shall Reign On Earth

Revelation 5:
[9] and they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy art thou to take the
scroll and to open its seals, for thou wast slain and by thy blood
didst ransom men for G-D from every tribe and tongue and people and
nation,
[10] and hast made them a kingdom and priests to our G-D, and they
shall reign on earth." RSV

Revelation 20:6:
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on
such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of G-D
and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Notice that Revelation 20:6 says they shall reign with Jesus Christ.

Authority Over Ten Cities

The saints are going to be rulers and teachers while Jesus Christ
rules the Earth as King. In Luke chapter 19 Jesus Christ uses a
parable to explain that the saints will rule over cities.

Luke 19:
19:12: He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country
to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
19:13: And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds,
and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
19:14: But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him,
saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
19:15: And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received
the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him,
to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man
had gained by trading.
19:16: Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten
pounds.
19:17: And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou
hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten
cities.
19:18: And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five
pounds.
19:19: And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
19:20: And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound,
which I have kept laid up in a napkin:
19:21: For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest
up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.
19:22: And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge
thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man,
taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:
19:23: Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at
my coming I might have required mine own with usury?
19:24: And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound,
and give it to him that hath ten pounds.
19:25: (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds. )
19:26: For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be
given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken
away from him.

Jesus Christ will give the saints power over the nations to rule them
with a rod of iron.

Revelation 2:25-27:
2:25: But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
2:26: And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to
him will I give power over the nations:
2:27: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a
potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my
Father.

Some people claim the apostles expected Jesus Christ to set up the
Kingdom of G-D then. Others deny that Jesus Christ will reign for
1,000 years. They say he would have to give up his rule and allow
Satan the Devil to reign in his stead when the 1,000 years have ended.
They base their claims on Scriptures that say G-D's Kingdom will never
end and the saints will possess the kingdom forever.

Daniel 7:18:
But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess
the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

They ask, "How could Jesus Christ only reign for 1,000 years and
there also be no end to Almighty G-D's Kingdom?"

1 Corinthians chapter 15 answers their question. Almighty G-D will
come to the Earth after the 1,000 years then Jesus Christ will deliver
the Kingdom to G-D.

1 Corinthians 15:22-28:
15:22: For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made
alive.
15:23: But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits;
afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
15:24: Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the
kingdom to G-D, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule
and all authority and power.
15:25: For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his
feet.
15:26: The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
15:27: For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith
all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted,
which did put all things under him.
15:28: And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the
Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him,
that G-D may be all in all.

* This occurs after the Last Great Day. We will cover this in another
chapter.

The Good News of the Kingdom of Almighty G-D

* If the world understood these Scriptures the end would have already
come.

Matthew 24:14:
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for
a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

In the Encyclopedia Britannica Eleventh Edition under millennium it
says: After Christ has appeared from heaven in the guise of a warrior,
and vanquished the antichristian world-power, the wisdom of the world
and the devil, those who have remained steadfast in the time of the
last catastrophe, and have given up their lives for their faith, shall
be raised up, and shall reign with Christ on this earth as a royal
priesthood for one thousand years. E.Q.

We know that Jesus Christ shall rule as King over all the Earth.

Job 19:25:
For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the
latter day upon the earth:

Isaiah 9:6-7:
9:6: For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the
government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called
Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty G-D, The everlasting Father, The
Prince of Peace.
9:7: Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no
end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and
to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even
for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

I Will Bring You to Zion - Jerusalem the Throne of the Lord

Jeremiah 3:14-17:
3:14: Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married
unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and
I will bring you to Zion:
3:15: And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall
feed you with knowledge and understanding.
3:16: And it shall come to pass, when ye be multiplied and increased
in the land, in those days, saith the LORD, they shall say no more,
The ark of the covenant of the LORD: neither shall it come to mind:
neither shall they remember it; neither shall they visit it; neither
shall that be done any more.
3:17: At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD;
and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the
LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the
imagination of their evil heart.

The Lord Shall Reign Over Them in Mount Zion

Micah 4:1-7:
4:1: But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of
the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the
mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall
flow unto it.
4:2: And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to
the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the G-D of Jacob; and he
will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law
shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
4:3: And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations
afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their
spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against
nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
4:4: But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig
tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of
hosts hath spoken it.
4:5: For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we
will walk in the name of the LORD our G-D for ever and ever.
4:6: In that day, saith the LORD, will I assemble her that halteth,
and I will gather her that is driven out, and her that I have
afflicted;
4:7: And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast
far off a strong nation: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount
Zion from henceforth, even for ever.

Revelation 19:11-16:

19:11: And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that
sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he
doth judge and make war.

19:12: His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many
crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
19:13: And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name
is called The Word of G-D.
19:14: And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white
horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
19:15: And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he
should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron:
and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty
G-D.
19:16: And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written,
KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

In that day the Lord shall be King of all the Earth.

Zechariah 14:3-9:
14:3: Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations,
as when he fought in the day of battle.
14:4: And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives,
which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall
cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and
there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall
remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
14:5: And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley
of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye
fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah:
and the LORD my G-D shall come, and all the saints with thee.
14:6: And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not
be clear, nor dark:
14:7: But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not
day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it
shall be light.
14:8: And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out
from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them
toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
14:9: And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall
there be one LORD, and his name one.

Jesus Christ told us that he is going to return to the Earth and he
questioned whether he would find faith on the Earth.

Luke 18:8:
I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the
Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

Faith in G-D means trusting that G-D means what He says throughout
Scripture. This includes the knowledge that Jesus Christ will return
to the Earth fulfilling the good news of the coming Kingdom of
Almighty G-D on the Earth.

A resurrected King David shall rule over the tribes of Israel.

Psalm 17:15:
As for me, I will behold thy face in righteousness: I shall be
satisfied, when I awake, with thy likeness.

Psalm 71:20-21:
20:20: Thou, which hast shewed me great and sore troubles, shalt
quicken me again, and shalt bring me up again from the depths of the
earth.
20:21: Thou shalt increase my greatness, and comfort me on every
side.

Jeremiah 30:9:
But they shall serve the LORD their G-D, and David their king, whom I
will raise up unto them.

* The Prophet Jeremiah lived over 400 years after King David.

Ezekiel 34:23-24:
34:23: And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed
them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their
shepherd.
34:24: And I the LORD will be their G-D, and my servant David a prince
among them; I the LORD have spoken it.

Ezekiel 37:24-25:
37:24: And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all
shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and
observe my statutes, and do them.
37:25: And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob
my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell
therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children
for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

* The Prophet Ezekiel lived about 400 years after King David.

Hosea 3:5:
Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD
their G-D, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his
goodness in the latter days.

* The Prophet Hosea lived about 200 years after King David.

Abraham, Isaac and Jacob shall be in the Kingdom of G-D.

Matthew 8:11:
And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and
shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of
heaven.

Moses and Elijah

The Apostles Peter, James and John saw a vision of the future Kingdom
of G-D.

Matthew 16:28:
Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not
taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Matthew 17:1-9:
17:1: And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his
brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
17:2: And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the
sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
17:3: And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking
with him.
17:4: Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for
us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one
for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
17:5: While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them:
and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved
Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
17:6: And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and
were sore afraid.
17:7: And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not
afraid.
17:8: And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save
Jesus only.
17:9: And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them,
saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again
from the dead.

As expected, Moses and Elijah will have exalted positions in the
Kingdom of G-D. In the vision of the Kingdom of G-D Moses and Elijah
were talking face to face with Jesus Christ the King of all the
Earth.

Preterists deny that these verses in Matthew chapter 17 fulfill the
prophecy made by Jesus Christ in the verse that immediately precedes
them in chapter 16.

That verse is Matthew 16:28.

Matthew 16:28:
Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not
taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

These preterists argue that all the apostles were still alive when
the events of Matthew 17:1-9 occurred. They say Jesus Christ's
statement that only some of those standing there would not taste of
death till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom proves that
these verses describe two events.

The preterists do not consider that except for the apostles standing
there that eye witnessed the vision; the other apostles did die
without seeing the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Here is something else these preterists will not consider: 2 Peter
1:16-18 is describing the events witnessed by those apostles.

2 Peter 16-18:
1:16: For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made
known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were
eyewitnesses of his majesty.
1:17: For he received from G-D the Father honour and glory, when there
came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved
Son, in whom I am well pleased.
1:18: And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were
with him in the holy mount.

These Scriptures plainly teach that they were eyewitnesses of the
power and coming of the Lord Jesus Christ when they saw the vision of
Jesus Christ talking with Moses and Elijah. Yet the preterists still
deny that they were eyewitnesses to the power and coming of our Lord.

The Twelve Apostles in The Kingdom

Matthew 19:27-28:
19:27: Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken
all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
19:28: And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which
have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in
the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones,
judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

His Office Let Another Take

Acts 1:
[15] In those days Peter stood up among the brethren (the company of
persons was in all about a hundred and twenty), and said,
[16] "Brethren, the scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy
Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David, concerning Judas who
was guide to those who arrested Jesus.
[17] For he was numbered among us, and was allotted his share in this
ministry.
[18] (Now this man bought a field with the reward of his wickedness;
and falling headlong he burst open in the middle and all his bowels
gushed out.
[19] And it became known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, so that
the field was called in their language Akel'dama, that is, Field of
Blood. )
[20] For it is written in the book of Psalms, `Let his habitation
become desolate,and let there be no one to live in it'; and "His
office let another take.
[21] So one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time
that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
[22] beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was
taken up from us--one of these men must become with us a witness to his
resurrection."
[23] And they put forward two, Joseph called Barsab'bas, who was
surnamed Justus, and Matthi'as.
[24] And they prayed and said, "Lord, who knowest the hearts of all
men, show which one of these two thou hast chosen
[25] to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which
Judas turned aside, to go to his own place."
[26] And they cast lots for them, and the lot fell on Matthi'as; and
he was enrolled with the eleven apostles. RSV

Life in the Kingdom of G-D

Living Waters

In that day living waters shall flow from Jerusalem after the Mount
of Olives divides.

Zechariah 14:8:
And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from
Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward
the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

Zechariah 14:1-8:
14:1: Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be
divided in the midst of thee.
14:2: For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and
the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women
ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the
residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
14:3: Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations,
as when he fought in the day of battle.
14:4: And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives,
which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall
cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and
there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall
remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
14:5: And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley
of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye
fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah:
and the LORD my G-D shall come, and all the saints with thee.
14:6: And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not
be clear, nor dark:
14:7: But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not
day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it
shall be light.
14:8: And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out
from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them
toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

These waters shall issue from the Temple of the Lord.

Ezekiel 47:
47:1: Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house; and,
behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house
eastward: for the forefront of the house stood toward the east, and
the waters came down from under from the right side of the house, at
the south side of the altar.
47:2: Then brought he me out of the way of the gate northward, and led
me about the way without unto the utter gate by the way that looketh
eastward; and, behold, there ran out waters on the right side.
47:3: And when the man that had the line in his hand went forth
eastward, he measured a thousand cubits, and he brought me through the
waters; the waters were to the ancles.
47:4: Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through the waters;
the waters were to the knees. Again he measured a thousand, and
brought me through; the waters were to the loins.
47:5: Afterward he measured a thousand; and it was a river that I
could not pass over: for the waters were risen, waters to swim in, a
river that could not be passed over.
47:6: And he said unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen this? Then he
brought me, and caused me to return to the brink of the river.
47:7: Now when I had returned, behold, at the bank of the river were
very many trees on the one side and on the other.
47:8: Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east
country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being
brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.
47:9: And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which
moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there
shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall
come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live
whither the river cometh.
47:10: And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it
from En-gedi even unto En- eglaim; they shall be a place to spread
forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish
of the great sea, exceeding many.
47:11: But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not
be healed; they shall be given to salt.
47:12: And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on
that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade,
neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new
fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of
the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf
thereof for medicine.

Joel 3:18:
In that day the mountains will drip new wine, and the hills will flow
with milk; all the ravines of Judah will run with water. A fountain
will flow out of the LORD's house and will water the valley of
acacias. NIV

Come Unto Mount Zion

Hebrews 12:22-28:
12:22: But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the
living G-D, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of
angels,
12:23: To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are
written in heaven, and to G-D the Judge of all, and to the spirits of
just men made perfect,
12:24: And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood
of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
12:25: See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped
not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we
escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
12:26: Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised,
saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
12:27: And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those
things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things
which cannot be shaken may remain.
12:28: Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us
have grace, whereby we may serve G-D acceptably with reverence and
godly fear:

G-D Gives Humanity a Machine to Remove Mountains

Isaiah 41:15-16:
41:15: Behold, I will make thee a new sharp threshing instrument
having teeth: thou shalt thresh the mountains, and beat them small,
and shalt make the hills as chaff.
41:16: Thou shalt fan them, and the wind shall carry them away, and
the whirlwind shall scatter them: and thou shalt rejoice in the LORD,
and shalt glory in the Holy One of Israel.

In That Day the Blind Will See and the Deaf Will Hear

Isaiah 29:18:
And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the
eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

In That Day it Shall be Light In the Evening

Zechariah 14:5-7:
14:5: And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley
of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye
fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah:
and the LORD my G-D shall come, and all the saints with thee.
14:6: And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not
be clear, nor dark:
14:7: But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not
day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it
shall be light.

The Wolf Shall Dwell with the Lamb

Isaiah 11:4-9:

11:4: But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with
equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with
the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay
the wicked.

11:5: And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and
faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
11:6: The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall
lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling
together; and a little child shall lead them.
11:7: And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie
down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
11:8: And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the
weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
11:9: They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the
earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover
the sea.

The Law Shall Go Forth from Jerusalem

Isaiah 2:1-4:
2:1: The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and
Jerusalem.
2:2: And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of
the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and
shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
2:3: And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to
the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the G-D of Jacob; and he
will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of
Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
2:4: And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many
people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their
spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against
nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

We Have Heard That G-D Is with You

Zechariah 8:20-23:
8:20: Thus saith the LORD of hosts; It shall yet come to pass, that
there shall come people, and the inhabitants of many cities:
8:21: And the inhabitants of one city shall go to another, saying, Let
us go speedily to pray before the LORD, and to seek the LORD of hosts:
I will go also.
8:22: Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the LORD
of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the LORD.
8:23: Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to
pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the
nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew,
saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that G-D is with you.

Almighty G-D Shall Provide a Pure Language

Zephaniah 3:8-9:
3:8: Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the LORD, until the day that I
rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations,
that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation,
even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the
fire of my jealousy.
3:9: For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may
all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.

You already know the meaning of Zechariah 3:8B.

Zephaniah 3:8B:
for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble
the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation

Zephaniah reminds us that before any of these blessings happen Satan
will gather armies to fight against him when Jesus Christ comes to
rule the Earth.

[Abrams1117]

On Nov 19, 2:29 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:

> On Nov 19, 1:49?pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 20, 8:25 am, Abrams1117 <John1...@peoplepc.com> wrote:
>

> > > ?Judge not.

>
> > Thought I'd share some quotes since we both enjoy his wisdom.
>
> > A coward is incapable of exhibiting love; it is the prerogative of the
> > brave. A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he
> > becomes.
>
> > A nation's culture resides in the hearts and in the soul of its
> > people. A policy is a temporary creed liable to be changed, but while
> > it holds good it has got to be pursued with apostolic zeal.
>
> > A principle is the expression of perfection, and as imperfect beings
> > like us cannot practise perfection, we devise every moment limits of
> > its compromise in practice.
>
> > A religion that takes no account of practical affairs and does not
> > help to solve them is no religion.
>
> > A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in
> > their mission can alter the course of history.
>
> > A weak man is just by accident. A strong but non-violent man is unjust
> > by accident.
>
> > A man who was completely innocent, offered himself as a sacrifice for
> > the good of others, including his enemies, and became the ransom of
> > the world. It was a perfect act.
> > Mohandas Gandhi
>
> In all those quotes...Where is glory given to YHWH??

First, we are simply discussing Gandhi. He was a Hindu, would you
expect him to give glory to Jesus Christ?

No.

Yet, he does:

A man who was completely innocent, offered himself as a sacrifice for
the good of others, including his enemies, and became the ransom of
the world. It was a perfect act.
Mohandas Gandhi

Are you saying that only Christians can be discussed on this forum?

Or that any one is in any way saying that the word of G-D was spoken
by Gandhi?

I see no one saying that and would reject it.

Go back to discussing Paul and leave Gandhi alone. He was a great man
of peace.

>
> Is that what Scripture says??
>

[Abrams1117]

On Nov 19, 2:29 pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
> On Nov 20, 9:22 am, Abrams1117 <John1...@peoplepc.com> wrote:
>
> > Gandhi is the anti-Christ, Paul is the anti-Christ....when the real
> > one shows up you will miss him.
>
> So, it goes to question then, are we more righteous then Gandhi?
>

Isn't that for G-D to judge?

> All compromise is based on give and take, but there can be no give and take on fundamentals. Any compromise on mere fundamentals is a surrender. For it is all give and no take.
>

What do you mean by fundamentals?

> An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation,
> nor does truth become error because nobody sees it.

Obviously.

>
> An eye for eye only ends up making the whole world blind.
> Mohandas Gandhi

Jesus Christ took care of that one when he said turn the other cheek.

[Abrams1117]

On Nov 19, 2:39 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:

> > ?If anyone used Gandhi's words as 'doctrine' or said they came 'from'

> > G-D I would be first in line to condemn that belief.
>

> > ?There are countless 'good' people (Only G-D is good) that aren't

> > Christians. G-D will not condemn them but give them a chance at
> > salvation.
>
> > We are not to 'judge' anyone.
>

> > ?That doesnt mean if we see someone beating another person to death we

> > arent to stop them or when PD threatens someone with physical violence
> > we are to ignore it; it means we are not to 'judge' them - to act as
> > their judge - G-D is our judge, every knee will bend and every mouth
> > will confess before G-D Almighty.
>
> > Point out the mistakes but don't judge 'the person'.
>
> > G-D will do that.
>
> > As for the churches....
>

> > ?The world pictures Jesus Christ as a helpless baby or dead on a

> > cross; the world wears crosss on chains or hung on a wall; the world
> > keeps Sunday holy; the world believes that the saved go to Heaven at
> > death and the evil burn in hell forever at death; the world prays to
> > the dead - all of these teachings come from the deceiver of the world.
> > Thats why he has that name.
>
> > Point out the mistakes with Scripture.
>

> > ?Who knows if that person won't see the truth a year from now - if -

> > they are not 'judged' harshly?
>

> > ?By judging 'you' may be responsible for pushing them AWAY from the

> > truth.
>
> > - Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Abrams117:
> G-D will not condemn them but give them a chance at
> salvation.
>
> Where does this appear in Scripture...I am curious if you would please quote the Scripture that backs up that when we are judged we will have another chance for salvation

I wondered how long it would take you to get to this question. You
have an assumption in there about being judged twice. First, I have a
question....do you reject Paul's writings?

If so, I'm not even going into it. Not that I'm sure I would have to
use them or even if it would just simply be easier to use some of them
- its just that it is a very complex question if you don't know about
the Holy Days, etc. And honestly a lot of work.

You could just as easily search 'last day' in the New Testament (like
you have several terms in this thread) in Scripture and see what they
say, then look up the last day of the feast of tabernacles.

When (on what day) was the Passover fulfilled? The wave sheaf?
Pentecost?

The remaining days are:

Feast of Trumpets
Day of Atonement
Feast of Tabernacles
The Last Great Day

G-D's Plan for Humanity....the annual Holy Days

>
> vs we will be judged by the works we did while we are on earth...
>
> I am looking forward to that group of Scriptures...I have heard that
> thinking when I checked out what the UCOG believes.
>
> I believe G-d will bring his people to truth...Period...he does
> it...We are to speak his truth only.
>
> I do point out mistakes with Scripture...some people don't want to
> listen to G-d's Word... G-d does call his people stiffnecked and
> rebellious.
>
> Did you read the righteous judgment verses...all of them...they are
> about judgment right now while we are living on earth too.
>

> Debra- Hide quoted text -

[Abrams1117]

On Nov 19, 2:39 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:

> > ?If anyone used Gandhi's words as 'doctrine' or said they came 'from'

> > G-D I would be first in line to condemn that belief.
>

> > ?There are countless 'good' people (Only G-D is good) that aren't

> > Christians. G-D will not condemn them but give them a chance at
> > salvation.
>
> > We are not to 'judge' anyone.
>

> > ?That doesnt mean if we see someone beating another person to death we

> > arent to stop them or when PD threatens someone with physical violence
> > we are to ignore it; it means we are not to 'judge' them - to act as
> > their judge - G-D is our judge, every knee will bend and every mouth
> > will confess before G-D Almighty.
>
> > Point out the mistakes but don't judge 'the person'.
>
> > G-D will do that.
>
> > As for the churches....
>

> > ?The world pictures Jesus Christ as a helpless baby or dead on a

> > cross; the world wears crosss on chains or hung on a wall; the world
> > keeps Sunday holy; the world believes that the saved go to Heaven at
> > death and the evil burn in hell forever at death; the world prays to
> > the dead - all of these teachings come from the deceiver of the world.
> > Thats why he has that name.
>
> > Point out the mistakes with Scripture.
>

> > ?Who knows if that person won't see the truth a year from now - if -

> > they are not 'judged' harshly?
>

> > ?By judging 'you' may be responsible for pushing them AWAY from the

> > truth.
>
> > - Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Abrams117:
> G-D will not condemn them but give them a chance at
> salvation.
>
> Where does this appear in Scripture...I am curious if you would please
> quote the Scripture that backs up that when we are judged we will have
> another chance for salvation
>
> vs we will be judged by the works we did while we are on earth...
>
> I am looking forward to that group of Scriptures...I have heard that
> thinking when I checked out what the UCOG believes.
>
> I believe G-d will bring his people to truth...Period...he does
> it...We are to speak his truth only.
>
> I do point out mistakes with Scripture...some people don't want to
> listen to G-d's Word... G-d does call his people stiffnecked and
> rebellious.
>

> Did you read the righteous judgment verses...all of them...they are
> about judgment right now while we are living on earth too.

Who is being judged? Unbelievers?

Luke 9:62
And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough,
and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of G-D.

>
> Debra- Hide quoted text -

[::: good news :::]

In
news:0dba76e9-d0b8-4432...@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com,
Debra <the2gol...@aol.com> typed:

>> What I honor is that Ghandi did not fight but used peaceful means to

>> stop a war.
>>
>> Something we can learn from.
>>
>> I have a Hindu friend (of thirteen ?years of age), and they have
>> several good things in their faith. The problem is not to honor
>> this, but to know that their gods are not G-d, and that they believe
>> in a lie. There is just One G-d.
>>

>> ? ?::: vera :::- Hide quoted text -

>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>

> Vera says:
>> What I honor is that Ghandi did not fight but used peaceful means to
>> stop a war.
>

> Debra questions:
> How did G-d fight his wars...How will he fight the end times war? When
> he judges the world?

Supernaturally. :-)

> Debra

::: vera :::

[::: good news :::]

In
news:de431032-a78b-4095...@s36g2000prg.googlegroups.com,
Abrams1117 <John...@peoplepc.com> typed:

>> Debra-
>
>
> Gandhi was right about peace; the allies were right about war; Jesus
> Christ will destroy all the armies that attack Jerusalem.

That is right.

> There is a time for war and a time for peace.

Solomon...

Amen.

[Qadosh Stephanos]

On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:17:31 -0800 (PST), Abrams1117
<John...@peoplepc.com> wrote:

>Are you saying that only Christians can be discussed on this forum?

It is disturbing to imagine that God ignored the Inca people.

It is equally distributing to believe God forgot the Eskimos.

But what is most disturbing is a belief that God is a racist.

[Abrams1117]

On Nov 19, 6:30 pm, Qadosh Stephanos <qadosh.stepha...@yahoo.ca>
wrote:

> On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:17:31 -0800 (PST), Abrams1117
>

> <John1...@peoplepc.com> wrote:
> >Are you saying that only Christians can be discussed on this forum?
>
> It is disturbing to imagine that God ignored the Inca people.
>
> It is equally distributing to believe God forgot the Eskimos.
>
> But what is most disturbing is a belief that God is a racist.

Now I finally understand why I can never understand you.

I understood you the entire time.

[Debra]

> one shows up you will miss him.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

How about there are many antichrists? Meaning people who are against
Christ?

Debra

[guardian Snow]

On Nov 20, 8:55 am, Abrams1117 <John1...@peoplepc.com> wrote:

Going to reply to your post I see another person here... I'll give her
a quick response.

> > BECAUSE G-D'S TORAH IS TRUTH.

So are the gospels of Yeshua written by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

> > Proverbs 22:6 says...Train up a child in the way he should go: and
> > when he is old he will not depart from it.
>
> > Funny thing is...like I said...We were trained up in many false
> > teachings...So G-d will take us on paths we have never
> > known...Chastising us...and teaching us HIS TRUTH...WITH HIS SPIRIT.

I'm not your child and you don't need to train me. I'll take my
training on my terms from scriptures. It's a good thing your not the
Almighty creator and so I do not have to accept your repeated
"chastising" and over critical judgment. You seem to be under the
false impression that I should learn from your poor examples. Lucky
for me your a boring read.

On the wisdom of Gandhi,

Joh 3:31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the
earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from
heaven is above all.

On the wisdom of Yeshua,
Joh 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how
shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down
from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even
so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have
eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten
Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have
everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the
world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Amen, bless his name Yeshua! If Yeshua didn't come to condemn, men
shouldn't either.

Gandhi does have earthly wisdom and while I do not ascribe the same
value to his words there are things to be learned of even by "earthly"
wisdom. For example:

Be the change that you want to see in the world. Even if you are a
minority of one, the truth is the truth.

Gentleness, self-sacrifice and generosity are the exclusive possession
of no one race or religion.

God is, even though the whole world deny him. Truth stands, even if
there be no public support. It is self-sustained.

God, as Truth, has been for me a treasure beyond price. May He be so
to every one of us. It is the quality of our work which will please

God and not the quantity.

It is easy enough to be friendly to one's friends. But to befriend the
one who regards himself as your enemy is the quintessence of true
religion. The other is mere business.

I am prepared to die, but there is no cause for which I am prepared to
kill. I believe that a man is the strongest soldier for daring to die
unarmed.

It has always been a mystery to me how men can feel themselves honored
by the humiliation of their fellow beings. I look only to the good
qualities of men. Not being faultless myself, I won't presume to probe
into the faults of others.

Before the throne of the Almighty, man will be judged not by his acts
but by his intentions. For God alone reads our hearts. In a gentle
way, you can shake the world.
Mohandas Gandhi

Can anybody tell me this isn't wisdom to aspire to? Mohandas Gandhi
is a great example of a human being.

[Abrams1117]

On Nov 19, 7:23 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:

> > > ?24And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he

> > > shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall
> > > destroy the mighty and the holy people.
>

> > > ?25And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his

> > > hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and BY PEACE HE SHALL
> > > DESTROY MANY: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes;
> > > but he shall be broken without hand.
>

> > > ?26And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is

> > > true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many
> > > days.
>
> > > Daniel 11:20-25 (King James Version)
>

> > > ?20Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the glory of

> > > the kingdom: but within few days he shall be destroyed, neither in
> > > anger, nor in battle.
>

> > > ?21And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, TO WHOM THEY SHALL

> > > GIVE THE HONOUR OF THE KINGDOM: BUT HE SHALL COME IN PEACEABLY, and
> > > obtain THE KINGDOM BY FLATTERIES.
>

> > > ?22And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before

> > > him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.
>
> > > 23And after the league made with him HE SHALL WORK DECEITFULLY: for he
> > > shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.
>

> > > ?24HE SHALL ENTER PEACEABLY even upon the fattest places of the

> > > province; and he shall do that which his fathers have not done, nor
> > > his fathers' fathers; he shall scatter among them the prey, and spoil,
> > > and riches: yea, and he shall forecast his devices against the strong
> > > holds, even for a time.
>

> > > ?25And he shall stir up his power and his courage against the king of

> > > the south with a great army; and the king of the south shall be
> > > stirred up to battle with a very great and mighty army; but he shall
> > > not stand: for they shall forecast devices against him.
>
> > > Ephesians 6:15...PAUL'S PEACE GOSPEL...Different from repent for the
> > > kingdom of heaven is near... AND in the modern church movements we
> > > have Rick Warren's PEACE Plan...and the United Nations PEACE Plan...I
> > > have to go back and look again...but I think in those links I posted
> > > about Gandhi he was involved in the UN somehow...Will have to go look
> > > again.
>

> > > ?15And your feet shod with the preparation of the GOSPEL OF PEACE;
>
> > > Micah 7:5-7
>
> > > ?5Trust ye not in a friend, put ye not confidence in a guide: keep the

> > > doors of thy mouth from her that lieth in thy bosom.
>

> > > ?6For the son dishonoureth the father, the daughter riseth up against

> > > her mother, the daughter in law against her mother in law; a man's
> > > enemies are the men of his own house.
>

> > > ?7Therefore I will look unto the LORD; I will wait for the God of my

> > > salvation: my God will hear me.
>
> > > Matthew 10:34-36
>

> > > ?34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send
> > > peace, but a sword.
>
> > > ?35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the

> > > daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her
> > > mother in law.
>

> > > ?36And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.- Hide quoted text -

>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Gandhi is the anti-Christ, Paul is the anti-Christ....when the real
> > one shows up you will miss him.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>

> How about there are many antichrists? Meaning people who are against Christ?

That there are many is obvious:

1 John 2:18
Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the
antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how
we know it is the last hour.

But, 1 John 2:18 also says 'you have heard that THE anti-Christ is
coming'.

Who is an anti-Christ?

1 John 2:22
Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ.
Such a man is the antichrist--he denies the Father and the Son.

Based on these verses you cannot call either Paul or Gandhi an anti-
Christ.

1 John 4:3
but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from G-D. This
is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and
even now is already in the world.

2 John 1:7
Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the
flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver
and the antichrist.

But people will ignore Scripture. They believe that Paul could 'fool'
Peter, James, Luke and Timothy; if they were there they of course
would not be fooled by Paul. And they believe that G-D would let them
remain fooled - and also allow Paul to write more books of the New
Testament than anyone else to be included in Almighty G-D's Sacred
Writings.

These people know 'better' and would have 'saved' Peter, James, Luke
and Timothy.

Amazing.

> Debra- Hide quoted text -

[::: good news :::]

In
news:aa1e5416-3e40-4c4a...@s6g2000prc.googlegroups.com,
Debra <the2gol...@aol.com> typed:
> On Nov 19, 11:12?am, " ::: good news :::" <veral...@lycos.com> wrote:
>> Innews:56c093f7-f85a-42ea...@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com,
>> Abrams1117 <John1...@peoplepc.com> typed:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Nov 19, 10:37 am, " ::: good news :::" <veral...@lycos.com>

>> Sorry for my misspelling Gandhi.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

>>>> did not fight but used peaceful means to
>>>> stop a war.
>>
>>>> Something we can learn from.
>>
>>>> I have a Hindu friend (of thirteen ?years of age), and they have
>>>> several good things in their faith. The problem is not to honor
>>>> this, but to know that their gods are not G-d, and that they
>>>> believe in a lie. There is just One G-d.
>>
>>>> ? ?::: vera :::- Hide quoted text -
>>

>>> Hi Vera,
>>
>>> I have Hindu friends of over 30 years and they are 'family'.
>>
>>> And yet Hindus and Muslims 'are' deceived. When Jesus Christ comes
>>> to rule the Earth everyone will learn the truth and 'Allah' will be
>>> no more. Until then we should all live in peace, even on this
>>> forum, and be civil to each other.
>>
>> That is right. I fully agree. G-d loves all the people and wants them
>> all to come to full the full knowledge. We can give witness of our
>> faith and spread the Gospel, and we can pray for the people, but it
>> is not our right to force them into our views. G-d will touch those
>> whom He wants to touch, that is what I believe.
>>

>> ? ?::: vera :::- Hide quoted text -
>>

>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>

> Vera says:
>> That is right. I fully agree. G-d loves all the people and wants them
>> all to come to full the full knowledge.
>
> The Old Testament states
> Psalm 7:11
> God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.
> Psalm 7:10-12 (in Context) Psalm 7 (Whole Chapter)
>
>
> Debra questions
> Repentance is important for those who will repent and turn to G-d and
> who learn his ways...

Repentance is what G-d works in us, Debra.

> What about the wicked who don't repent? Does he love them?

Yes, He loves them, too. G-d loves everybody, and we have all been
wicked. What makes Christians special is that they have confessed that
Yeshua died for their sins in their place..

> How will he judge them?

According to their works. He is just and reliable.

> Did he love the heathen he drove out and had the
> Israelites kill in the Old Testament? How is that different now?

Had Yeshua died for their sins already?

> Debra

::: vera :::

--
___________________________________________________
::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::::::
::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::::::
::::::: http://www.e-sword.net :::::::
::::::: http://alpha.org/default.asp :::::::

[Debra]

On Nov 19, 2:53�pm, Abrams1117 <John1...@peoplepc.com> wrote:

Debra

> > Abram...Is Commandment Keeping for today...If so which commandments??
>

Abram

Debra
We are to live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of G-
d...So says Messiah in the gospels...His words proceeded out of his
mouth...Begins in Exodus 20 and continues on for some chapters...and
Israel agrees to live by the words that proceeded out of his
mouth...To them as a nation...and to Moses to present to them...the
commandments...613 Mitzvahs are there...and all cannot be kept by
everyone or at this time...but they are the words G-d spoke.

More than just the 10??

Deuteronomy 8:3
And he humbled thee and suffered thee to hunger and fed the with manna
which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might
make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word
that proceedeth out of the mouth of the L-RD doth man live.

Matthew 4:4
4But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread
alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

So back to Paul...Does he always keep the commandments??

Debra

[Debra]

Abrams...Thanks for sharing all that Scripture...I will look over it
in depth...I have learned much of that teaching...going to be testing
what I have learned though...

I don't regard Paul as truth... I think you already know that..

With all that Prophecy you just quoted that will happen when Messiah
comes...like the pure language, etc...

How do you specifically see it fulfilled right now...as in the
prophecy of Jeremiah 31 specifically compared to the Book of Hebrews?

Are the two houses joined? Is his law perfectly on everyone's heart?
Or do they have to go to the Old Testament to see what it really is?
Are people still sorrowing?

Debra

Jeremiah 31

1AT THE SAME TIME, saith the LORD, will I be the God of all the
families of Israel, and they shall be my people.

2Thus saith the LORD, The people which were left of the sword found
grace in the wilderness; even Israel, when I went to cause him to
rest.

3The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved
thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I
drawn thee.

4Again I will build thee, and thou shalt be built, O virgin of
Israel: thou shalt again be adorned with thy tabrets, and shalt go
forth in the dances of them that make merry.

5Thou shalt yet plant vines upon the mountains of Samaria: the
planters shall plant, and shall eat them as common things.

6For there shall be a day, that the watchmen upon the mount Ephraim
shall cry, Arise ye, and let us go up to Zion unto the LORD our God.

7For thus saith the LORD; Sing with gladness for Jacob, and shout
among the chief of the nations: publish ye, praise ye, and say, O
LORD, save thy people, the remnant of Israel.

8Behold, I will bring them from the north country, and gather them
from the coasts of the earth, and with them the blind and the lame,
the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together: a
great company shall return thither.

9They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead
them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight
way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and
Ephraim is my firstborn.

10Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, and declare it in the
isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and
keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock.

11For the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and ransomed him from the hand of
him that was stronger than he.

12Therefore they shall come and sing in the height of Zion, and shall
flow together to the goodness of the LORD, for wheat, and for wine,
and for oil, and for the young of the flock and of the herd: and their
soul shall be as a watered garden; and they shall not sorrow any more
at all.

13Then shall the virgin rejoice in the dance, both young men and old
together: for I will turn their mourning into joy, and will comfort
them, and make them rejoice from their sorrow.

14And I will satiate the soul of the priests with fatness, and my
people shall be satisfied with my goodness, saith the LORD.

15Thus saith the LORD; A voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation, and
bitter weeping; Rahel weeping for her children refused to be comforted
for her children, because they were not.

16Thus saith the LORD; Refrain thy voice from weeping, and thine eyes
from tears: for thy work shall be rewarded, saith the LORD; and they
shall come again from the land of the enemy.

17And there is hope in thine end, saith the LORD, that thy children
shall come again to their own border.

18I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast
chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the
yoke: turn thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art the LORD my
God.

19Surely after that I was turned, I repented; and after that I was
instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even
confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth.

20Is Ephraim my dear son? is he a pleasant child? for since I spake
against him, I do earnestly remember him still: therefore my bowels
are troubled for him; I will surely have mercy upon him, saith the
LORD.

21Set thee up waymarks, make thee high heaps: set thine heart toward
the highway, even the way which thou wentest: turn again, O virgin of
Israel, turn again to these thy cities.

22How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter? for the
LORD hath created a new thing in the earth, A woman shall compass a
man.

23Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; As yet they shall
use this speech in the land of Judah and in the cities thereof, when I
shall bring again their captivity; The LORD bless thee, O habitation
of justice, and mountain of holiness.

24And there shall dwell in Judah itself, and in all the cities
thereof together, husbandmen, and they that go forth with flocks.

25For I have satiated the weary soul, and I have replenished every
sorrowful soul.

26Upon this I awaked, and beheld; and my sleep was sweet unto me.

27Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will sow the house of
Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man, and with the seed
of beast.

28And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them,
to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and
to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith
the LORD.

29In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour
grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.

30But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth
the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.

31Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new
covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the
day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of
Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto
them, saith the LORD:

33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of
Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their
inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and
they shall be my people.

34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man
his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from
the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I
will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

35Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and
the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night,
which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts
is his name:

36If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the
seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for
ever.

37Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the
foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off
all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

38Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the city shall be built
to the LORD from the tower of Hananeel unto the gate of the corner.

39And the measuring line shall yet go forth over against it upon the
hill Gareb, and shall compass about to Goath.

40And the whole valley of the dead bodies, and of the ashes, and all
the fields unto the brook of Kidron, unto the corner of the horse gate
toward the east, shall be holy unto the LORD; it shall not be plucked
up, nor thrown down any more for ever.

[Debra]

On Nov 19, 3:17�pm, Abrams1117 <John1...@peoplepc.com> wrote:

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Abrams...I just don't think believers should be touting the wisdom of
Gandhi as proven by all the Scripture.

To me it is taking his wisdom from his false religion and applying it
to my life if I feel it is to be quoted and followed...So I choose not
to...Torah is THE TRUTH OF MY LIFE.

Gandhi's teachings are the truth for the Hindu's beliefs and the
people who are blending with religious tolerance as truth in what I
see.

You don't see that I don't think...I think you are of a more
ecumenical thinking perhaps?

You agree Paul is truth...did you say you didn't for awhile...What
changed your mind specifically?

Debra

[Debra]

Are you a part of the Worldwide Church of God ?? or a part of the
Hebrew Roots or Messianic Movements?

I was wondering because of your mention of people having a second
chance for repentance...I do realize about the Feasts of G-d...
However...that does not make Paul truth...

and I think I have already asked you, but show me why you changed your
mind from Paul being false back to being truth?

Debra

[Debra]

No...righteous judgment between professed believers.

Debra

[Debra]

On Nov 19, 5:50�pm, " ::: good news :::" <veral...@lycos.com> wrote:
> Innews:0dba76e9-d0b8-4432...@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com,
> Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> typed:

> � �::: vera :::- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Supernaturally...or with Peace?? Will it be a war...Is G-d a fighter
unlike Gandhi was the question I was getting at.

Debra

[Debra]

On Nov 19, 5:51�pm, " ::: good news :::" <veral...@lycos.com> wrote:
> Innews:de431032-a78b-4095...@s36g2000prg.googlegroups.com,

> Amen.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

And G-d chooses when the times of war and the times of peace
are...David's reign was a time of war...And G-d gave Solomon peace
during his reign.

Debra

[Debra]

> is a great example of a human being.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Told ya he was "peeking"
Debra

[Debra]

On Nov 19, 7:36�pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:

> is a great example of a human being.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Apparently he doesn't agree with the Scriptures that refute Gandhi's
wisdom...but when somebody is in rebellion to G-d...they don't always
see things it seems.

Debra

[Debra]

On Nov 19, 7:40�pm, " ::: good news :::" <veral...@lycos.com> wrote:
> Innews:aa1e5416-3e40-4c4a...@s6g2000prc.googlegroups.com,
> Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> typed:

> � �:::::::http://alpha.org/default.asp:::::::- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

So you believe everybody is saved no matter what? Perhaps I
misunderstood when you said, "Had Yeshua died for their sins
already?"...Did you mean he died for the wicked or the heathen G-d
destroyed?

Debra

[Debra]

On Nov 19, 7:36�pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:

> is a great example of a human being.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Mark comes off of Killfile to comment:

I'm not your child and you don't need to train me. I'll take my
training on my terms from scriptures. It's a good thing your not the
Almighty creator and so I do not have to accept your repeated
"chastising" and over critical judgment. You seem to be under the
false impression that I should learn from your poor examples. Lucky
for me your a boring read.

Debra replies...I am just discussing on your post...Not training you
in anything...Did you get the part of your sentence that said

"MY TERMS"

Are you willing to learn on "HIS TERMS"...YHWH'S??

We learn on G-d's terms...not our own...His Word and Spirit teach us.

Well...Qadosh commented in the beginning of the post regarding the I's
and the me's, etc.

My child is in shock actually that Mark is quoting Gandhi as
wisdom...I have trained my child that Scripture is truth.

We have discussed what has been going on...and whether or not it is
righteous behavior or not... and irony...My child immediately
retorted, "Why is he quotiing Gandhi...Isn't he Hindu or something?"

This isn't a chastising for Mark...This is me refuting Gandhi's wisdom
with YHWH's TRUTH according to Scripture.

Debra

[::: good news :::]

In
news:264ca489-828f-484b...@b40g2000prf.googlegroups.com,
Debra <the2gol...@aol.com> typed:

> Supernaturally...or with Peace?? Will it be a war...Is G-d a fighter
> unlike Gandhi was the question I was getting at.

I do not think that God will judge this world in peace but just.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which
the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall
melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein
shall be burned up. 2 Peter 3:10 KJV

And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a
great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the
moon became as blood; (13) And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth,
even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a
mighty wind. (14) And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled
together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
(15) And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men,
and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every
free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
(16) And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from
the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the
Lamb: (17) For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able
to stand? Revelation 6:12-17 KJV

(10) And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See
thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have
the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the
spirit of prophecy. (11) And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white

horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in

righteousness he doth judge and make war. (12) His eyes were as a flame

of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written,

that no man knew, but he himself. (13) And he was clothed with a vesture
dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. (14) And the

armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in

fine linen, white and clean. (15) And out of his mouth goeth a sharp

sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them
with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and

wrath of Almighty God. Revelation 19:10-15 KJV

[::: good news :::]

In
news:f7c56fbb-6d59-45bf...@i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com,
Debra <the2gol...@aol.com> typed:

>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ::: vera :::
>>
>> ?--
>> ?___________________________________________________
>> ? ?:::::::http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de:::::::
>> ? ?:::::::http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm:::::::
>> ? ?:::::::http://www.e-sword.net:::::::
>> ? ?:::::::http://alpha.org/default.asp:::::::- Hide quoted text -

>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> So you believe everybody is saved no matter what? Perhaps I
> misunderstood when you said, "Had Yeshua died for their sins
> already?"...Did you mean he died for the wicked or the heathen G-d
> destroyed?

Sure, Yeshua died for everybody. But when they died, G-d's plan had not
been fulfilled yet. Yeshua had not died for their sins then.

But no, not everybody will be saved according to Scripture. Only those
who confess that Jesus died for their sins. Those who have understood
that they cannot become righteous by their own deeds. Those who humble
themselves and let Him be the leader. Those who have understood that
they cannot bring anything to G-d.

We are saved through faith by grace only. If we think we can justify
ourselves, Yeshua died in vain.

[guardian Snow]

On Nov 20, 3:39 pm, " ::: good news :::" <veral...@lycos.com> wrote:
> Innews:f7c56fbb-6d59-45bf...@i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com,

> >> ? ?:::::::http://alpha.org/default.asp:::::::-Hide quoted text -

>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > So you believe everybody is saved no matter what? Perhaps I
> > misunderstood when you said, "Had Yeshua died for their sins
> > already?"...Did you mean he died for the wicked or the heathen G-d
> > destroyed?
>
> Sure, Yeshua died for everybody. But when they died, G-d's plan had not
> been fulfilled yet. Yeshua had not died for their sins then.
>
> But no, not everybody will be saved according to Scripture. Only those
> who confess that Jesus died for their sins. Those who have understood
> that they cannot become righteous by their own deeds. Those who humble
> themselves and let Him be the leader. Those who have understood that
> they cannot bring anything to G-d.
>
> We are saved through faith by grace only. If we think we can justify
> ourselves, Yeshua died in vain.

You know, there is an irony in all of this. You and me had a very
long debate in the past and yet, to your credit, here you are as a
true representative of Christ preaching forgiveness and mercy. I've
got a lot of respect for you Ms. Good News.

These words scream out to you:

Mat 5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Mat 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the
children of God.
Mat 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness'
sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute
you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my
sake.
Mat 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in
heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
Mat 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his
savor, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for
nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
Mat 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill
cannot be hid.
Mat 5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel,
but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the
house.
Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your
good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Bless your dear heart,

Snow

1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which
according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively
hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

[::: good news :::]

In
news:3e60d7a3-2f4d-486c...@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com,
Debra <the2gol...@aol.com> typed:

Amen, Debra.

> Debra

::: vera :::

[Qadosh Stephanos]

On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:09:05 -0800 (PST), Debra
<the2gol...@aol.com> wrote:

>Told ya he was "peeking"

Why didn't you reply to his or her (Snow's) questions?

It's time to grow up and conduct in intellectual talk.

Do not be poky. People are sick and tired of children.

[Qadosh Stephanos]

Provocative. You probably wasted 8 seconds of thought.

Your intelligence has enamoured the predatory asphalt.

Obviously asphaltic religion fumes give determination.

[Abrams1117]

On Nov 20, 3:33 pm, Qadosh Stephanos <qadosh.stepha...@yahoo.ca>
wrote:

You're invulnerable to any response because what you don't understand
can't hurt you.

[Abrams1117]

On Nov 19, 8:02 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:

> > ?And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough,

> > and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of G-D.
>
> > > Debra- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> No...righteous judgment between professed believers.

The 'No' I understand - this part I do not: '...righteous judgment
between professed believers'.

'Professed believers' decide who is fit for the Kingdom of G-D?

[Debra]

On Nov 19, 12:15 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Nov 19, 11:26�am, Abrams1117 <John1...@peoplepc.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 19, 11:12 am, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:

> > > > > Debra- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>

> > > Abrams 117 says

>
> > > > My favorite Gandhi quote, 'I am a Muslim, and a Hindu, and a
> > > > Christian, and a Jew, and so are all of you.'
>

> > > Which is in direct contradiction to Torah...G-d's laws, commandments,
> > > precepts, etc...Interesting...I guess I don't know your personal
> > > beliefs at this point.
>
> > When I saw that you posted to this thread I knew you were calling me
> > on this.
>
> > Gandhi spoke out of love, not judging or asuming someone else to be
> > evil or ignorant.
>
> > What he said was 'beautiful'; we are all the same 'people' no one is
> > beter than anyone else. He wasn't saying that everyone had to worship
> > as a Christian, and as a Jew and as Muslim and as a Hindu -and this
> > point is 100% obvious - there is no doubt that he did NOT mean for
> > everyone to worship each way.
>
> > I believe he will enter into G-D's Kingdom, if only I were lucky
> > enough to be close behind him.
>
> > You won't understand this either, but thats ok. G-D has it all under
> > control.
>
> > > But it does line up with the Universalism the "modern church" is
> > > embracing by incorporating what we call New Age, etc...it is the
> > > incorporation of these Muslim and Hindu beliefs, etc... they slipped
> > > through the door of the "churches" with "Christian Terminology"...and
> > > have been embraced by those not seeking G-d to show them if they are
> > > following any false teaching... I think everyone should seek G-d and
> > > continually seek him to be sure they are not...Reading his word and
> > > praying for his wisdom, discernment, knowledge and understanding.
>
> > > The Mantras, The Prayer Labyrinths or Prayer Paths, The Contemplative
> > > Prayers, etc... a good sight to read about this is called Lighthouse
> > > Trails...I don't agree with all they teach because I have realized the
> > > falseness of the Apostle Paul...but they do expose how this is in what
> > > we call the "Chrisitian Churches" of various denominations.
>
> > >http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/contemplativespirituality.htm
>
> > >http://www.lighthousetrails.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&St...
>
> > > I have read A Time of Departing, For Many Shall Come in My Name, On
> > > The Other Side of the River, and Running Against the Wind
>
> > > Very personal to me because the people I personally care about where I
> > > live are in these churches being exposed to and participating in the
> > > practices this group is warning about...They even mention Simpson
> > > University...Which is a huge part of my towns "chrisitan educational
> > > seminary"...etc...and they are misleading so many...Many of my former
> > > "pastors" are very influential at this University...and it was very
> > > educational as G-d taught me through his word to see that these men
> > > were leading the masses in the church in Spiritual Adultery to him.
>
> > > The blind leading the blind....But I know G-d will cause eyes to be
> > > opened...and some will see the truth.
>
> > > They do expose practices Christians are many times unknowingly doing
> > > and that have been forbidden by YHWH in the Torah and Tanakh.
>
> > > I found it interesting that Gandhi has played a huge role in joining
> > > world religions...I did not know that until I just read about it
> > > today.

>
> > > Debra- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>

> Abram...You are right that I "won't understand" because obedience to
> YHWH and following his word trumps this deception in the "churches"...
>
> Deception looks nice, sounds nice, tastes nice, etc... but if it isn't
> from YHWH...and if YHWH is your G-d...Then it is him you follow...
>
> He will have NO OTHER gods BEFORE HIM...Hindu gods included...for
> those who are called "his people"...
>
> as I said...I am looking at the big picture of people around the world
> being deceived...and the people who will come out of these
> "churches"...
>
> and no...I wasn't thinking of you...I was thinking of the original
> author of this post who quotes all these worldly wisdoms when Gandhi's
> wisdom in fact contradicts G-d's wisdom if we take the time to compare
> it to the Scriptures...which is the truth for the people of the G-d of
> the whole nation of Israel whereever they may be.
>
> You believe he will enter into G-ds Kingdom?? Interesting.

>
> Debra- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Debra said...And Snowpheonix REMOVED HIS FIRST POST TO THE
CONVERSATION HE STARTED...He started this thread...and his deception
continues.

> and no...I wasn't thinking of you...I was thinking of the original
> author of this post who quotes all these worldly wisdoms when Gandhi's
> wisdom in fact contradicts G-d's wisdom if we take the time to compare
> it to the Scriptures...which is the truth for the people of the G-d of
> the whole nation of Israel whereever they may be.

Debra

[Debra]

Debra said...and the original posters first responder below...The one
I told I wasn't thinking of... Snowpheonix was the original poster on
this thread and created it.

> and no...I wasn't thinking of you...I was thinking of the original
> author of this post who quotes all these worldly wisdoms when Gandhi's
> wisdom in fact contradicts G-d's wisdom if we take the time to compare
> it to the Scriptures...which is the truth for the people of the G-d of
> the whole nation of Israel whereever they may be

Just posting this to show "who" the original poster is on this
thread...he removed it after I posted the above...And Abrams117 was
responding to him in this post below...Debra

Abrams1117 View profile
(1 user) More options Nov 17, 3:15 pm

Newsgroups: alt.bible, alt.bible.prophecy,
alt.christnet.christianlife, alt.messianic, aus.religion.christian
From: Abrams1117 <John1...@peoplepc.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 15:15:20 -0800 (PST)
Local: Sat, Nov 17 2007 3:15 pm
Subject: Re: My theory about Lucifer, can you prove me wrong?
Reply | Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show
original | Report this message | Find messages by this author

On Nov 17, 8:25 am, SnowPheonix <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:

- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

> This is my theory, that self proclaimed Apostle Paul fits the prophesy
> of Lucifer as recorded in the book of Isaiah. I'm putting this
> forward for critical review and would like evidence that shows I'm
> wrong. For my personal acceptance, please understand that Paul's
> claims to visions recorded by Luke are not evidence. I realize that
> the vast majority of people believe otherwise but I'm putting this
> forward because I want to find a piece that doesn't fit with Paul, to
> show that I'm wrong.

> Isa 14:1 For the LORD will have compassion on Jacob, and will yet
> choose Israel, and set them in their own land; and the stranger shall
> join himself with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.

> Now we see the chapter is beginning talking about gentiles joining
> with the house of Jacob.

> Isa 14:2 And the peoples shall take them, and bring them to their
> place; and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the
> LORD for servants and for handmaids; and they shall take them captive,
> whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.

> The Gentiles become servants in Israel.

> Isa 14:3 And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall
> give thee rest from thy travail, and from thy trouble, and from the
> hard service wherein thou wast made to serve,
> Isa 14:4 that thou shalt take up this parable against the king of
> Babylon, and say: How hath the oppressor ceased! the exactress of gold
> ceased!

> Now the king of Babylon I see as a reference to the leader of the
> church of Babylon.

> Isa 14:5 The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, the sceptre of
> the rulers,

> Now this is interesting because a "staff" is used to guide sheep. So
> the staff of the wicked must in fact be something that leads the sheep
> to wickedness.

> Isa 14:6 That smote the peoples in wrath with an incessant stroke,
> that ruled the nations in anger, with a persecution that none
> restrained.

> The "persecution that none restrained" is in my opinion because people
> don't understand that Paul is Lucifer. Nobody would restrain somebody
> they believed to be good.

> Isa 14:7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet; they break forth
> into singing.
> Isa 14:8 Yea, the cypresses rejoice at thee, and the cedars of
> Lebanon: 'Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.'

> Lebanon is the location of Damascus and the synagogue of the
> Libertines (Acts 6:9). It is the same spot where we see the
> introduction of Saul stoning the disciple Stephen. It brought to mind
> this parallel in Jeremiah.

> Jer 22:22 The wind shall eat up all thy pastors, and thy lovers shall
> go into captivity: surely then shalt thou be ashamed and confounded
> for all thy wickedness.
> Jer 22:23 O inhabitant of Lebanon, that makest thy nest in the
> cedars, how gracious shalt thou be when pangs come upon thee, the pain
> as of a woman in travail!

> Isa 14:9 Sheol beneath is stirred up to meet you when you come; it
> rouses the shades to greet you,

> Now when Paul was canonized into scriptures, he was long dead!

> all who were leaders of the earth; it raises from their thrones all
> who were kings of the nations.

> Isa 14:10 All of them will answer and say to you: 'You too have
> become as weak as we! You have become like us!'

> All the kings begin to ask this question and I would say due to lack
> of moral standards, "have you become secular and worldly?" might be
> another way of saying this.

> Isa 14:11 Your pomp is brought down to Sheol, the sound of your
> harps; maggots are laid as a bed beneath you, and worms are your
> covers.
> Isa 14:12 "How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn!
> How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low!

> Lucifer or Day Star, weakens many nations and this would fit with
> moral corruption of the commandments of Elohim

> Isa 14:13 You said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven;
> 2Co 11:10 As the truth of Christ is in me,
> 2Co 12:9 ...that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

> above the stars of God I will set my throne on high;
> 1Ti 5:21 In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of the elect
> angels (I charge you to keep these rules) without prejudging, doing
> nothing from partiality.

> I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far reaches of the north;
> It's important to note that All of Paul's Assemblies were to the north
> of Jerusalem.
> Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in
> heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

> Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
> 1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up
> together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so
> we will always be with the Lord.

> I will make myself like the Most High.'
> 1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me
> Gal 1:24 And they glorified God in me.
> Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I,
> but Christ liveth in me:..
> Gal 4:14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor
> rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.
> Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation
> of God which is given to me for you,...

> Isa 14:15 But you are brought down to Sheol, to the far reaches of
> the pit.
> Isa 14:16 Those who see you will stare at you and ponder over you:
> 'Is this the man who made the earth tremble, who shook kingdoms,
> We see in verse 16 that Lucifer is in fact a man. Probably they stare
> and ponder because of the surprise of it being Saul.

> Isa 14:17 who made the world like a desert and overthrew its cities,
> who did not let his prisoners go home?'

> We see that prisoners are people that sit in the shadow of darkness
> and death, Prisoners of sin.
> Psa 107:10 Some sat in darkness and in the shadow of death, prisoners
> in affliction and in irons,

> Isa 14:18 All the kings of the nations lie in glory, each in his own
> tomb;
> Isa 14:19 but you are cast out, away from your grave,
> Paul was brought out of his grave by having his work canonized in the
> scriptures and his words live today as his gospel.

> like a loathed branch,

> A loathed branch probably because it's been fixed in scriptures and we
> must find the many examples about trees:
> Luk 3:9 Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every
> tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown
> into the fire."

> clothed with the slain, those pierced by the sword, who go down to
> the stones of the pit, like a dead body trampled underfoot.
> Isa 14:20 You will not be joined with them in burial, because you
> have destroyed your land, you have slain your people. "May the
> offspring of evildoers nevermore be named!
> We never knew if or who Paul's "offspring" was. This in fact helps to
> show that it is not Nebuchadnezzar because Daniel names his son.

> Isa 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his sons because of the guilt of
> their fathers, lest they rise and possess the earth, and fill the face
> of the world with cities."
> Isa 14:22 "I will rise up against them," declares the LORD of hosts,
> "and will cut off from Babylon name and remnant, descendants and
> posterity," declares the LORD.
> This passage also makes it clear it is a future event because it's
> speaking of Babylon and the Saints, also known as the remnant.
> Rev 17:5 And on her forehead was written a name of mystery: "Babylon
> the great, mother of prostitutes and of earth's abominations."

> Isa 14:23 "And I will make it a possession of the hedgehog, and pools
> of water, and I will sweep it with the broom of destruction," declares
> the LORD of hosts.
> Isa 14:24 The LORD of hosts has sworn: "As I have planned, so shall
> it be, and as I have purposed, so shall it stand,
> Isa 14:25 that I will break the Assyrian in my land, and on my
> mountains trample him underfoot; and his yoke shall depart from them,
> and his burden from their shoulder."
> Assyrian country was where Tarsus was located and the birthplace of
> Saul/Paul. When we consider this passage we must understand that his
> "yoke" and his "burden" are placed on the followers and not that of
> Elohim's. This false yoke is that of a false belief and a the burden
> of conflicting scriptures that divide the true churches of the Messiah
> Yeshua.

> Isa 14:26 This is the purpose that is purposed concerning the whole
> earth, and this is the hand that is stretched out over all the
> nations.
> Notice also that it effect the "whole earth" and this is also proof it
> is a modern day living prophesy. To me, this passage seals it that
> the Assyrian is Paul whose false burden effects the whole earth by
> being in the #1 best selling book in world history, the bible.

> Isa 14:27 For the LORD of hosts has purposed, and who will annul it?
> His hand is stretched out, and who will turn it back?
> Isa 14:28 In the year that King Ahaz died came this oracle:
> Isa 14:29 Rejoice not, O Philistia, all of you, that the rod that
> struck you is broken, for from the serpent's root will come forth an
> adder, and its fruit will be a flying fiery serpent.
> Isa 14:30 And the firstborn of the poor will graze, and the needy lie
> down in safety; but I will kill your root with famine, and your
> remnant it will slay.
> Isa 14:31 Wail, O gate; cry out, O city; melt in fear, O Philistia,
> all of you! For smoke comes out of the north, and there is no
> straggler in his ranks.
> Isa 14:32 What will one answer the messengers of the nation? "The
> LORD has founded Zion, and in her the afflicted of his people find
> refuge."

> I also found it interesting this mention of the "messengers of the
> nations". It seems to be speaking of the scriptures to me. So, that's
> why I came to that opinion

...
read more »

[Qadosh Stephanos]

On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 15:56:18 -0800 (PST), Abrams1117
<John...@peoplepc.com> wrote:

> You're invulnerable to any response because what you don't understand
>can't hurt you.

I don't need to understand you, I'm beyond the village of religion.

I'm Superman! Hahaha, I mean that is what you want to make me into.

I'm narrow minded with a ridiculous notion of there is 12 Apostles.

I guess if I was religiously indoctrinated, I'd add a few Apostles.

Fortunately for whatever particular reason, Father gave me a brain.

I suspect in your case, freedom was bound by the books of religion.

Although there is a certain amount of animosity in your displeasure.

The people of 300 hundred years ago were able to conduct themselves.

I mean in proper language and in civil and in eloquent conversation.

Unfortunately references are equated to a lack of freedom education.

Democratic fortitudes and elusions of religion, and self deceptions.

These all lead to the present situations of questionable characters.

[Abrams1117]

On Nov 20, 5:20 pm, Qadosh Stephanos <qadosh.stepha...@yahoo.ca>
wrote:

> On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 15:56:18 -0800 (PST), Abrams1117
>

http://www.dailygrammar.com/

[::: good news :::]

In
news:5b88e0f5-ed89-45f5...@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com,
guardian Snow <snowp...@eck.net.au> typed:

Thanks, ditto. Maybe we share much more things than we differ in. Let us
give it another try, or at least agree to disagree. You see, I have many
friends in real life who do not even believe in God, and this works. So
why should we not get along while praising the same God?

> These words scream out to you:
>
> Mat 5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
> Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
> Mat 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the
> children of God.
> Mat 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness'
> sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
> Mat 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute
> you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my
> sake.
> Mat 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in
> heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
> Mat 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his
> savor, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for
> nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
> Mat 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill
> cannot be hid.
> Mat 5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel,
> but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the
> house.
> Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your
> good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Thanks! I really needed to read that today. That was very kind of you.

> Bless your dear heart,
>
> Snow

Be blessed, too,

::: vera :::

[Abrams1117]

On Nov 19, 7:51 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:

> > ?In Christ shall all be made alive.
>
> > 1 Corinthians 15:22:
> > ?For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
>
> > ?When Jesus Christ comes to rule the Earth Almighty G-D resurrects the

> > saints. G-D resurrects everyone else after 1,000 years.
>
> > Revelation 20:4-6:
> > 20:4: And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was
> > given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for
> > the witness of Jesus, and for the word of G-D, and which had not
> > worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark
> > upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned
> > with Christ a thousand years.
> > 20:5: But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand
> > years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
> > 20:6: Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection:
> > on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of G-
> > D and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
>
> > * People often call the 1,000 years the saints reign on Earth the
> > millennium.
>

> > ?The saints surviving the tribulation and the resurrected saints shall

> > reign with Jesus Christ as kings and priests.
>
> > Revelation 1:6:

> > ?And hath made us kings and priests unto G-D and his Father; to him be

> > glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
>

> > ?They Shall Reign On Earth

>
> > Revelation 5:
> > [9] and they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy art thou to take the
> > scroll and to open its seals, for thou wast slain and by thy blood
> > didst ransom men for G-D from every tribe and tongue and people and
> > nation,
> > [10] and hast made them a kingdom and priests to our G-D, and they
> > shall reign on earth." RSV
>
> > Revelation 20:6:

> > ?Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on

> > such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of G-D
> > and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
>

> > ?Notice that Revelation 20:6 says they shall reign with Jesus Christ.
>
> > ?Authority Over Ten Cities
>
> > ?The saints are going to be rulers and teachers while Jesus Christ

> > ?Jesus Christ will give the saints power over the nations to rule them

> > with a rod of iron.
>
> > Revelation 2:25-27:
> > 2:25: But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
> > 2:26: And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to
> > him will I give power over the nations:
> > 2:27: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a
> > potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my
> > Father.
>

> > ?Some people claim the apostles expected Jesus Christ to set up the

> > Kingdom of G-D then. Others deny that Jesus Christ will reign for
> > 1,000 years. They say he would have to give up his rule and allow
> > Satan the Devil to reign in his stead when the 1,000 years have ended.
> > They base their claims on Scriptures that say G-D's Kingdom will never
> > end and the saints will possess the kingdom forever.
>
> > Daniel 7:18:

> > ?But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess

> > the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.
>

> > ?They ask, "How could Jesus Christ only reign for 1,000 years and

> > there also be no end to Almighty G-D's Kingdom?"
>

> > ?1 Corinthians chapter 15 answers their question. Almighty G-D will

> > come to the Earth after the 1,000 years then Jesus Christ will deliver
> > the Kingdom to G-D.
>
> > 1 Corinthians 15:22-28:
> > 15:22: For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made
> > alive.
> > 15:23: But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits;
> > afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
> > 15:24: Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the
> > kingdom to G-D, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule
> > and all authority and power.
> > 15:25: For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his
> > feet.
> > 15:26: The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
> > 15:27: For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith
> > all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted,
> > which did put all things under him.
> > 15:28: And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the
> > Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him,
> > that G-D may be all in all.
>
> > * This occurs after the Last Great Day. We will cover this in another
> > chapter.
>

> > ?The Good News of the Kingdom of Almighty G-D

>
> > * If the world understood these Scriptures the end would have already
> > come.
>
> > Matthew 24:14:

> > ?And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for

> > a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
>

> > ?In the Encyclopedia Britannica Eleventh Edition under millennium it

> > says: After Christ has appeared from heaven in the guise of a warrior,
> > and vanquished the antichristian world-power, the wisdom of the world
> > and the devil, those who have remained steadfast in the time of the
> > last catastrophe, and have given up their lives for their faith, shall
> > be raised up, and shall reign with Christ on this earth as a royal
> > priesthood for one thousand years. E.Q.
>

> > ?We know that Jesus Christ shall rule as King over all the Earth.
>
> > Job 19:25:
> > ?For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the

> > latter day upon the earth:
>
> > Isaiah 9:6-7:
> > 9:6: For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the
> > government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called
> > Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty G-D, The everlasting Father, The
> > Prince of Peace.
> > 9:7: Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no
> > end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and
> > to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even
> > for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
>

> > ?I Will Bring You to Zion - Jerusalem the Throne of the Lord

>
> > Jeremiah 3:14-17:
> > 3:14: Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married
> > unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and
> > I will bring you to Zion:
> > 3:15: And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall
> > feed you with knowledge and understanding.
> > 3:16: And it shall come to pass, when ye be multiplied and increased
> > in the land, in those days, saith the LORD, they shall say no more,
> > The ark of the covenant of the LORD: neither shall it come to mind:
> > neither shall they remember it; neither shall they visit it; neither
> > shall that be done any more.
> > 3:17: At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD;
> > and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the
> > LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the
> > imagination of their evil heart.
>

> > ?The Lord Shall Reign Over Them in Mount Zion

> > ?In that day the Lord shall be King of all the Earth.

>
> > Zechariah 14:3-9:
> > 14:3: Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations,
> > as when he fought in the day of battle.
> > 14:4: And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives,
> > which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall
> > cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and
> > there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall
> > remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
> > 14:5: And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley
> > of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye
> > fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah:
> > and the LORD my G-D shall come, and all the saints with thee.
> > 14:6: And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not
> > be clear, nor dark:
> > 14:7: But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not
> > day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it
> > shall be light.
> > 14:8: And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out
> > from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them
> > toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
> > 14:9: And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall
> > there be one LORD, and his name one.
>

> > ?Jesus Christ told us that he is going to return to the Earth and he

> > questioned whether he would find faith on the Earth.
>
> > Luke 18:8:

> > ?I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the

> > Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
>

> > ?Faith in G-D means trusting that G-D means what He says throughout

> > Scripture. This includes the knowledge that Jesus Christ will return
> > to the Earth fulfilling the good news of the coming Kingdom of
> > Almighty G-D on the Earth.
>

> > ?A resurrected King David shall rule over the tribes of Israel.
>
> > Psalm 17:15:
> > ?As for me, I will behold thy face in righteousness: I shall be

> > satisfied, when I awake, with thy likeness.
>
> > Psalm 71:20-21:
> > 20:20: Thou, which hast shewed me great and sore troubles, shalt
> > quicken me again, and shalt bring me up again from the depths of the
> > earth.
> > 20:21: Thou shalt increase my greatness, and comfort me on every
> > side.
>
> > Jeremiah 30:9:

> > ?But they shall serve the LORD their G-D, and David their king, whom I

> > will raise up unto them.
>
> > * The Prophet Jeremiah lived over 400 years after King David.
>
> > Ezekiel 34:23-24:
> > 34:23: And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed
> > them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their
> > shepherd.
> > 34:24: And I the LORD will be their G-D, and my servant David a prince
> > among them; I the LORD have spoken it.
>
> > Ezekiel 37:24-25:
> > 37:24: And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all
> > shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and
> > observe my statutes, and do them.
> > 37:25: And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob
> > my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell
> > therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children
> > for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
>
> > * The Prophet Ezekiel lived about 400 years after King David.
>
> > Hosea 3:5:

> > ?Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD

> > their G-D, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his
> > goodness in the latter days.
>
> > * The Prophet Hosea lived about 200 years after King David.
>

> > ?Abraham, Isaac and Jacob shall be in the Kingdom of G-D.
>
> > Matthew 8:11:
> > ?And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and

> > shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of
> > heaven.
>

> > ?Moses and Elijah
>
> > ?The Apostles Peter, James and John saw a vision of the future Kingdom

> > of G-D.
>
> > Matthew 16:28:

> > ?Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not

> > taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
>
> > Matthew 17:1-9:
> > 17:1: And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his
> > brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
> > 17:2: And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the
> > sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
> > 17:3: And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking
> > with him.
> > 17:4: Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for
> > us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one
> > for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
> > 17:5: While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them:
> > and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved
> > Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
> > 17:6: And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and
> > were sore afraid.
> > 17:7: And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not
> > afraid.
> > 17:8: And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save
> > Jesus only.
> > 17:9: And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them,
> > saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again
> > from the dead.
>

> > ?As expected, Moses and Elijah will have exalted positions in the

> > Kingdom of G-D. In the vision of the Kingdom of G-D Moses and Elijah
> > were talking face to face with Jesus Christ the King of all the
> > Earth.
>

> > ?Preterists deny that these verses in Matthew chapter 17 fulfill the

> > prophecy made by Jesus Christ in the verse that immediately precedes
> > them in chapter 16.
>

> > ?That verse is Matthew 16:28.
>
> > Matthew 16:28:
> > ?Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not

> > taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
>

> > ?These preterists argue that all the apostles were still alive when

> > the events of Matthew 17:1-9 occurred. They say Jesus Christ's
> > statement that only some of those standing there would not taste of
> > death till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom proves that
> > these verses describe two events.
>

> > ?The preterists do not consider that except for the apostles standing

> > there that eye witnessed the vision; the other apostles did die
> > without seeing the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
>

> > ?Here is something else these preterists will not consider: 2 Peter

> > 1:16-18 is describing the events witnessed by those apostles.
>
> > 2 Peter 16-18:
> > 1:16: For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made
> > known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were
> > eyewitnesses of his majesty.
> > 1:17: For he received from G-D the Father honour and glory, when there
> > came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved
> > Son, in whom I am well pleased.
> > 1:18: And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were
> > with him in the holy mount.
>

> > ?These Scriptures plainly teach that they were eyewitnesses of the

> > power and coming of the Lord Jesus Christ when they saw the vision of
> > Jesus Christ talking with Moses and Elijah. Yet the preterists still
> > deny that they were eyewitnesses to the power and coming of our Lord.
>

> > ?The Twelve Apostles in The Kingdom

>
> > Matthew 19:27-28:
> > 19:27: Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken
> > all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
> > 19:28: And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which
> > have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in
> > the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones,
> > judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
>

> > ?His Office Let Another Take

> > ?Life in the Kingdom of G-D
>
> > ?Living Waters
>
> > ?In that day living waters shall flow from Jerusalem after the Mount

> > of Olives divides.
>
> > Zechariah 14:8:

> > ?And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from

> > ?These waters shall issue from the Temple of the Lord.

> > ?In that day the mountains will drip new wine, and the hills will flow

> > with milk; all the ravines of Judah will run with water. A fountain
> > will flow out of the LORD's house and will water the valley of
> > acacias. NIV
>

> > ?Come Unto Mount Zion

>
> > Hebrews 12:22-28:
> > 12:22: But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the
> > living G-D, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of
> > angels,
> > 12:23: To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are
> > written in heaven, and to G-D the Judge of all, and to the spirits of
> > just men made perfect,
> > 12:24: And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood
> > of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
> > 12:25: See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped
> > not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we
> > escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
> > 12:26: Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised,
> > saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
> > 12:27: And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those
> > things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things
> > which cannot be shaken may remain.
> > 12:28: Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us
> > have grace, whereby we may serve G-D acceptably with reverence and
> > godly fear:
>

> > ?G-D Gives Humanity a Machine to Remove Mountains

>
> > Isaiah 41:15-16:
> > 41:15: Behold, I will make thee a new sharp threshing instrument
> > having teeth: thou shalt thresh the mountains, and beat them small,
> > and shalt make the hills as chaff.
> > 41:16: Thou shalt fan them, and the wind shall carry them away, and
> > the whirlwind shall scatter them: and thou shalt rejoice in the LORD,
> > and shalt glory in the Holy One of Israel.
>

> > ?In That Day the Blind Will See and the Deaf Will Hear
>
> > Isaiah 29:18:
> > ?And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the

> > eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.
>

> > ?In That Day it Shall be Light In the Evening

>
> > Zechariah 14:5-7:
> > 14:5: And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley
> > of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye
> > fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah:
> > and the LORD my G-D shall come, and all the saints with thee.
> > 14:6: And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not
> > be clear, nor dark:
> > 14:7: But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not
> > day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it
> > shall be light.
>

> > ?The Wolf Shall Dwell with the Lamb

>
> > Isaiah 11:4-9:
> > 11:4: But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with
> > equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with
> > the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay
> > the wicked.
> > 11:5: And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and
> > faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
> > 11:6: The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall
> > lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling
> > together; and a little child shall lead them.
> > 11:7: And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie
> > down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
> > 11:8: And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the
> > weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
> > 11:9: They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the
> > earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover
> > the sea.
>

> > ?The Law Shall Go Forth from Jerusalem

>
> > Isaiah 2:1-4:
> > 2:1: The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and
> > Jerusalem.
> > 2:2: And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of
> > the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and
> > shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
> > 2:3: And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to
> > the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the G-D of Jacob; and he
> > will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of
> > Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
> > 2:4: And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many
> > people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their
> > spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against
> > nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
>

> > ?We Have Heard That G-D Is with You

>
> > Zechariah 8:20-23:
> > 8:20: Thus saith the LORD of hosts; It shall yet come to pass, that
> > there shall come people, and the inhabitants of many cities:
> > 8:21: And the inhabitants of one city shall go to another, saying, Let
> > us go speedily to pray before the LORD, and to seek the LORD of hosts:
> > I will go also.
> > 8:22: Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the LORD
> > of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the LORD.
> > 8:23: Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to
> > pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the
> > nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew,
> > saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that G-D is with you.
>

> > ?Almighty G-D Shall Provide a Pure Language

>
> > Zephaniah 3:8-9:
> > 3:8: Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the LORD, until the day that I
> > rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations,
> > that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation,
> > even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the
> > fire of my jealousy.
> > 3:9: For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may
> > all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.
>

> > ?You already know the meaning of Zechariah 3:8B.
>
> > Zephaniah 3:8B:
> > ?for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble

> > the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation
>

> > ?Zephaniah reminds us that before any of these blessings happen Satan

> > will gather armies to fight against him when Jesus Christ comes to
> > rule the Earth.
>
> > - Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> Abrams...Thanks for sharing all that Scripture...I will look over it
> in depth...I have learned much of that teaching...going to be testing
> what I have learned though...
>
> I don't regard Paul as truth... I think you already know that..
>
> With all that Prophecy you just quoted that will happen when Messiah
> comes...like the pure language, etc...
>
> How do you specifically see it fulfilled right now...as in the
> prophecy of Jeremiah 31

Fulfilled now?

Do you believe that Jeremiah 31 has been fulfilled?

[::: good news :::]

In
news:1893e5b7-51a7-40c8...@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com,
Abrams1117 <John...@peoplepc.com> typed:

>> What I honor is that Ghandi did not fight but used peaceful means to

>> stop a war.
>>
>> Something we can learn from.
>
>

> This worked against the British because they are not evil.
>
> What would have happened if this was tried against the Nazis?
>
> This would be planet 'Hitler'.

That is right. there was no other way to stop him but force. The German
people were deceived by all the propaganda, and the Nazis would have
found a way to discredit and mock peaceful means of resistance. There
was no real chance of resistance, I think. They were only allowed to
listen to one Nazi radio station where they had most of their
information from. And they were frightened that the neighbor might
report them...

I for one am more than glad that Hitler could be stopped in the end,
though by force.

> Many people do not realise his plan. He was going to rule the Earth -
> all of it.

Right.

> He designed the Capitol of Earth with a long wide street lined with
> ever larger matching building on either side until you reach the
> largest building, the Capitol at the end - with his office on top.
> Each year representatives from each nation were to walk down that
> street to pay tribute to him.
>
> If he listened to his generals and invaded Britain this Capitol might
> exist now.
>
> Today there would be no Jews. Also he said 'the Jews are ALMOST as bad
> as the blacks'. There would be no dark skin people on Earth.
> Eventually it would be German only. Then they would ask 'How German
> are YOU?'

Right - they would never have stopped.

> WWII was a necessary evil. Non-violence would not work against him.

I agree.

> There were many 'miracles' in WWII, such as the miracle of Britain
> that gave us victory. G-D has His own plans.....
>
> The coming war will not be one of 'non-violence'.....

I know.

> Revelation 19:19-21:
> 19:19: And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their
> armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the
> horse, and against his army.
> 19:20: And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that
> wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had
> received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image.
> These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with
> brimstone.
> 19:21: And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon
> the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls
> were filled with their flesh.
>
> Zechariah 14:12:
> And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the
> people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume
> away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume
> away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their
> mouth.
>
> Zechariah 14:9:

> And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall
> there be one LORD, and his name one.

Yes, that is what will happen.

::: vera :::

>> I have a Hindu friend (of thirteen years of age), and they have

>> several good things in their faith. The problem is not to honor
>> this, but to know that their gods are not G-d, and that they believe
>> in a lie. There is just One G-d.
>>

[Debra]

On Nov 19, 6:30�pm, Qadosh Stephanos <qadosh.stepha...@yahoo.ca>
wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:17:31 -0800 (PST), Abrams1117

>
> <John1...@peoplepc.com> wrote:
> >Are you saying that only Christians can be discussed on this forum?
>
> It is disturbing to imagine that God ignored the Inca people.
>
> It is equally distributing to believe God forgot the Eskimos.
>
> But what is most disturbing is a belief that God is a racist.

Israel was chosen as YHWH's inheritance...Only they are told to have
no other gods before him...Yet Solomon prayed that if anyone(not a
part of Israel) came and prayed toward his temple that G-d would hear
them and answer their prayers...so...can people who are not "G-d's
inheritance" put other gods before him...but only Israel cannot???

Micah Chapter 4...especially verse 5...I keep asking about it.

Debra

[Abrams1117]

On Nov 19, 7:57 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:

> > ?A man who was completely innocent, offered himself as a sacrifice for

> > the good of others, including his enemies, and became the ransom of
> > the world. It was a perfect act.
> > Mohandas Gandhi
>
> > Are you saying that only Christians can be discussed on this forum?
>

> > ?Or that any one is in any way saying that the word of G-D was spoken

> > by Gandhi?
>
> > I see no one saying that and would reject it.
>
> > Go back to discussing Paul and leave Gandhi alone. He was a great man
> > of peace.
>
> > > Is that what Scripture says??
>
> > > Debra- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Abrams...I just don't think believers should be touting the wisdom of
> Gandhi as proven by all the Scripture.

I do not understand what you mean by 'as proven by Scripture'.

Do you disagree with any of these?:

Gandhi is not in Scripture, Gandhi was not a Christian, his words are
not G-D inspired, he was a great man.

>
> To me it is taking his wisdom from his false religion and applying it
> to my life if I feel it is to be quoted and followed...So I choose not
> to...Torah is THE TRUTH OF MY LIFE.
>
> Gandhi's teachings are the truth for the Hindu's beliefs and the
> people who are blending with religious tolerance as truth in what I
> see.
>
> You don't see that I don't think...I think you are of a more
> ecumenical thinking perhaps?
>
> You agree Paul is truth...did you say you didn't for awhile...What
> changed your mind specifically?

Paul is still difficult, at one point I wished he had never even
existed. The way he speaks to different people with many different
beliefs and uses their beliefs to explain the Gospel w/his very
advanced knowledge of Scripture often makes his teaching completely
frustrating to all but a Scholar or a fool.

The Scholar understands while the fool simply agrees.

This verse made me reconsider that Paul knows a lot more than I:

Colossians 2:
16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink
in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day- NASB

The Sabbath in the Millennium

Many people use Colossians 2:16 to teach that we can decide for
ourselves which day to keep holy.

Colossians 2:
16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink
in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day- NASB

In Colossians 2:16 Paul is quoting Ezekiel 45:17.

Compare Colossians 2:16B to Ezekiel 45:17B.

Colossians 2:16B:
to food or drink in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath
day- NASB

Ezekiel 45:17B:
and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the
new moons, and in the sabbaths

Ezekiel 45:17 teaches that everyone will keep the Sabbath during the
millennium while Jesus Christ rules the Earth.

Ezekiel 45:17:
And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat
offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons,
and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he
shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt
offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the
house of Israel.

The People Shall Worship on the Sabbath

Ezekiel 46:1-3:
46:1: Thus saith the Lord G-D; The gate of the inner court that
looketh toward the east shall be shut the six working days; but on the
sabbath it shall be opened, and in the day of the new moon it shall be
opened.
46:2: And the prince shall enter by the way of the porch of that gate
without, and shall stand by the post of the gate, and the priests
shall prepare his burnt offering and his peace offerings, and he shall
worship at the threshold of the gate: then he shall go forth; but the
gate shall not be shut until the evening.
46:3: Likewise the people of the land shall worship at the door of
this gate before the LORD in the sabbaths and in the new moons.

Paul taught that everyone will keep the Sabbath during the millennium
while Jesus Christ rules the Earth.

[Abrams1117]

On Nov 19, 8:01 pm, Debra <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:

> > ?I wondered how long it would take you to get to this question. You

> > have an assumption in there about being judged twice. First, I have a
> > question....do you reject Paul's writings?
>

> > ?If so, I'm not even going into it. Not that I'm sure I would have to

> > use them or even if it would just simply be easier to use some of them
> > - its just that it is a very complex question if you don't know about
> > the Holy Days, etc. And honestly a lot of work.
>

> > ?You could just as easily search 'last day' in the New Testament (like

> > you have several terms in this thread) in Scripture and see what they
> > say, then look up the last day of the feast of tabernacles.
>

> > ?When (on what day) was the Passover fulfilled? The wave sheaf?

> > Pentecost?
>
> > The remaining days are:
>
> > Feast of Trumpets
> > Day of Atonement
> > Feast of Tabernacles
> > The Last Great Day
>
> > G-D's Plan for Humanity....the annual Holy Days
>
> > > vs we will be judged by the works we did while we are on earth...
>
> > > I am looking forward to that group of Scriptures...I have heard that
> > > thinking when I checked out what the UCOG believes.
>
> > > I believe G-d will bring his people to truth...Period...he does
> > > it...We are to speak his truth only.
>
> > > I do point out mistakes with Scripture...some people don't want to
> > > listen to G-d's Word... G-d does call his people stiffnecked and
> > > rebellious.
>
> > > Did you read the righteous judgment verses...all of them...they are
> > > about judgment right now while we are living on earth too.
>
> > > Debra- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Are you a part of the Worldwide Church of God ?? or a part of the
> Hebrew Roots or Messianic Movements?

Isn't it interesting that you need to understand both the old and new
covenants to learn G-D's Plan?

>
> I was wondering because of your mention of people having a second
> chance for repentance...I do realize about the Feasts of G-d...
> However...that does not make Paul truth...

When did I say second?

>
> and I think I have already asked you, but show me why you changed your mind from Paul being false back to being truth?

[Debra]

On Nov 20, 3:20�pm, Qadosh Stephanos <qadosh.stepha...@yahoo.ca>
wrote:

> On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:09:05 -0800 (PST), Debra
>

> <the2goldilo...@aol.com> wrote:
> >Told ya he was "peeking"
>
> Why didn't you reply to his or her (Snow's) questions?
>
> It's time to grow up and conduct in intellectual talk.
>
> Do not be poky. People are sick and tired of children.

I am totally tired of his slandering behavior toward me...He repeated
the same offense yesterday...and then going around talking about
"killfiling me" to be looking around and commenting toward me that
way...I am calling him the author normally because he accuses me of
"abusing his name"

He hasn't repented truly...And I am tired of his childishness...Just
was mentioning that he was peeking...and I am tired of his attention
getting tactics.

The majority of the people here act with namecalling etc.

I have just been refuting his lies and accusations...Saying he is
peeking has nothing to do with anything...He peeked...and I mentioned
it...Because he is all over the place bragging about how he has
killfiled me...So what is he doing "noticing I am there and wanting to
respond for"??

Debra