Baptist preachers and the Holy Spirit
Askjo
thru the preacher as he preaches.
Askjo
@
"Askjo" <Ao...@indy.rr.com> wrote in message
news:hn1s9.105780$Cz.11...@twister.neo.rr.com...
> I need to find some verses about the subject of the Holy Spirit speaking
> thru the preacher as he preaches.
>
> Askjo
Here's a few;
Luke 4:18-19 / Isaiah 61:1-2
Acts 1:16,18
2 Peter 1:21
I hope that these examples are helpful to you, and what you had in mind.
@
"@" <i.am@home> wrote in message
news:1TbWuRx...@newsthru.thrunet.com...
>
> "Askjo" <Ao...@indy.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:hn1s9.105780$Cz.11...@twister.neo.rr.com...
> > I need to find some verses about the subject of the Holy Spirit speaking
> > thru the preacher as he preaches.
> >
> > Askjo
>
>
> Here's a few;
>
> Luke 4:18-19 / Isaiah 61:1-2
> Acts 1:16,18
Correction: this should read Acts 1:16, 2:18
> 2 Peter 1:21
>
> I hope that these examples are helpful to you, and what you had in mind.
There will be others as well - perhaps others can provide a few more
references
Askjo
"@" <i.am@home> wrote in message
news:1TbWuRx...@newsthru.thrunet.com...
>
Luke 4:18-19 refer to the quotation from the O.T.-- not our current
lifetime. The Holy Spirit ANOINTED anyone for service only. Saul, for
example, in the O.T. was anointed by God, but one person asked David to kill
Saul, and David declined it because he told his man that Saul was anointed
that David CANNOT take his life.
Acts 1:16 refers to the Earliest Church during the Apostles' lifetime -- not
our current lifetime.
2 Peter 1:21 refers to the Human Penmanship and the Divine Authorship -- our
current lifetime.
Any other verses for the Holy Spirit speaking thru a preacher as he
preaches????
Askjo
Dore
I need to find some verses about the subject of the Holy Spirit speaking
> thru the preacher as he preaches.
First you have to determine who is TRULY a preacher of God and who is false.
Any preacher of any certain denomination, is NOT of GOD, for they are those
who have purchased their education through colleges of earthly men and NOT
of GOD. God chooses..
1 Cor 1:26-28
26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the
flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise;
and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things
which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God
chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
(KJV)
A TRUE preacher is one who has OBEYED and followed in ALL of the ways of
Christ, forsaking, money, possessions, family, sex, homes, lands, careers,
etc for the sake of the kingdom, not those who sought authority through
earthly man's collegic degrees bought with money. The HOLY SPIRIT comes ONLY
to those who have repented of ALL sin, stopped sinning and have made
themselves pure, holy, righteous, and blameless, and have forsaken all
things of the earth to teach, as the apostles did. NO modern day CHURCH or
denomination has done this, nor teaches it, but says all things that pleases
the itchy ears of his sheep, to support him financially, forsaking the
truth, for his own exaltation.
--
Dore
http://spirit_of_prophecy.tripod.com/
Rev 21:7
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he
shall be my son.
(KJV)
"Askjo" <Ao...@indy.rr.com> wrote in message
news:hn1s9.105780$Cz.11...@twister.neo.rr.com...
@
"Dore" <spiri...@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:ur60dcn...@corp.supernews.com...
> you wrote
> etc for the sake of the kingdom, not those who sought authority through
> earthly man's collegic degrees bought with money. The HOLY SPIRIT comes
ONLY
> to those who have repented of ALL sin, stopped sinning and have made
I agree that those who are chosen for ministry should be taken from the body
of believers who have shown evidence of the Holy Spirit working in their
lives, rather than theoretical academics that have never been "born-again"
and as such, do not have the full understanding and guidance of the Holy
Spirit.
Warning! No-one receives God's gift of the Holy Spirit as a result of their
own works
John 3:5-7
Galatians 3:2-5, 11
Ephesians 2:4-9
> themselves pure, holy, righteous, and blameless, and have forsaken all
> things of the earth to teach, as the apostles did. NO modern day CHURCH or
> denomination has done this, nor teaches it, but says all things that
pleases
It needs to be made clear that Dore preaches a "works gospel" that does not
have the power to save. She shares the values and beliefs of the Pharisees,
who Jesus warned about, so beware! (see also Galatians 1:6-12)
Do not be deceived - the repentance, cleansing and good works are the
product/evidence/fruit of the Holy Spirit working in the believer in faith,
from a willing heart to do the work of the Lord, not the other way around.
Unlisted Number
Just a few questions for you;
Are you suggesting that the Holy Spirit, and the gifts of the spirit, ceased
to be given at the time the Bible was written?
Do you think that the Bible is irrelevant for believers today, because it
was not written or referring to events in "our current lifetime"?
Do you believe that the God we worship is a living and an active God?
> Any other verses for the Holy Spirit speaking thru a preacher as he
> preaches????
Please further clarify the question in a specific manner - I thought that
all the verses I had provided had indicated the evidence of the working of
the Holy Spirit in the proclamation of the gospel message.
Vernono
"Unlisted Number" <spamc...@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:3db3...@clear.net.nz...
>
> Just a few questions for you;
>
> Are you suggesting that the Holy Spirit, and the gifts of the spirit,
ceased
> to be given at the time the Bible was written?
Have you visited the third heaven lately?
Have you raised the dead lately?
Have you been bitten by a poisonous snake lately?
Have you seen anyone speak an unfamiliar tongue to them and had anyone
accurately interpret?
Have you healed anyone lately (FYI no documented evidence exists, cancer is
transient)?
No you haven't.
Why persist in a lie?
>
> Do you think that the Bible is irrelevant for believers today, because it
> was not written or referring to events in "our current lifetime"?
>
Maybe you need to read Hebrews a few dozen times from different
translations.
Have you ever read or studied Hebrews in its entirety?
Phar-Lap
<Ao...@indy.rr.com> wrote:
I think you need a hobby
:-)
++++++++++
Askjo
>
> Are you suggesting that the Holy Spirit, and the gifts of the spirit,
ceased
> to be given at the time the Bible was written?
Yes, during the Apostolic time, this question refers to the Jews only. (for
example, tongue-speaking).
No, the tongue-speaking is not for our current lifetime. My question is that
I heard many preachers saying, "The Holy Spirit speaks through me during
preaching and this message is not mine, but God's" like that many times. I
caught their wrong preaching then asked myself, "Does the Holy Spirit makes
any mistakes to speak as a preacher preaches?" Many preachers made some
mistakes during preaching.
>
> Do you think that the Bible is irrelevant for believers today, because it
> was not written or referring to events in "our current lifetime"?
No, the Bible is quick and is God's guidebook for our lives.
>
> Do you believe that the God we worship is a living and an active God?
Of course! Indeed.
Askjo
bobe
Vernono <verno...@contractor.net> wrote in message
news:l4Gs9.146314$Pa.18...@news1.west.cox.net...
The Baptists believe they received the Holy Spirit at conversion, we
Pentecostals know we receive Him subsequent to conversion.
When He comes, there will be doubt in your mind or heart.
Don
>The Baptists believe they received the Holy Spirit at conversion, we
>Pentecostals know we receive Him subsequent to conversion.
>
>When He comes, there will be doubt in your mind or heart.
>
>bobe
You are more than a little arrogant, aren't you!?! Typical of many
self-proclaimed super-spiritual pentecostals.
"We have it and THEY don't."
Been there, done that, got tired of the false spirituality based upon
subjective experience and fake leaders.
D*
Qualem blennum!
Dore
> Warning! No-one receives God's gift of the Holy Spirit as a result of
their
> own works
>
> John 3:5-7
> Galatians 3:2-5, 11
> Ephesians 2:4-9
John 3:5-8
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of
water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the
Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but
canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that
is born of the Spirit.
(KJV)
Except you haven't considered what it takes to be born of the spirit?
Obviously, if one who is born of the spirit, is like the wind, not knowing
where it comes or goes, those who are anchored to possessions, homes,
family, mammon and the things of THIS world are NOT like the wind, but are
simply like the wicked.
Gal 3:2-5
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the
law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by
the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles
among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
(KJV)
The works of the law are the LAWS of MOSES, NOT obedience to ALL Christ
said.
Luke 6:46-49
46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will
shew you to whom he is like:
48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the
foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently
upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a
foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat
vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
(KJV)
Matt 7:21
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the
kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in
heaven.
(KJV)
Gal 3:11
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is
evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
(KJV)
Again, the LAWS of MOSES, that no man is justified, but the just shall live
by faith, and having faith in Christ, means that you also BELIEVE everything
that HE SAID.
Eph 2:4-9
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ,
(by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly
places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace
in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is
the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
(KJV)
And that grace IS the opportunity to BE forgiven IF you repent, deny
yourself, pick up the cross, lay down your lives, follow Christ, and walk as
Christ walked. And if you do many great works, even miraculous, casting out
demons, prophesying, etc, and still DO iniquity, and NOT the will of the
Father, you will still perish.
Matt 7:21-27
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the
kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in
heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in
thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many
wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye
that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will
liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat
upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not,
shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat
upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
(KJV)
Luke 13:3
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
(KJV)
you wrote.
>
> It needs to be made clear that Dore preaches a "works gospel" that does
not
> have the power to save. She shares the values and beliefs of the
Pharisees,
> who Jesus warned about, so beware! (see also Galatians 1:6-12)
No, it needs to be made clear that you have NO idea of what you are talking
about, since you throw out the scriptures that causes you to discipline your
heart, mind, actions to follow Christ and be His disciple, therefore
pretending that you can be saved, while ignoring Christ, disobeying GOD,
still in sin and earthliness, and NOT DOING THE WILL OF GOD. And you also
throw out these scriptures and pretend they don't exist, because they
testify against your concepts.
James 2:20
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
(KJV)
Rev 14:13
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the
dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they
may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
(KJV)
Rev 2:2
2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not
bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are
apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
(KJV)
Rev 2:5
5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the
first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy
candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
(KJV)
Rev 2:9
9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I
know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the
synagogue of Satan.
(KJV)
Rev 2:13
13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is:
and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those
days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where
Satan dwelleth.
(KJV)
Rev 2:19
19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience,
and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.
(KJV)
Rev 2:23
23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know
that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto
every one of you according to your works.
(KJV)
Rev 2:26
26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I
give power over the nations:
(KJV)
Rev 3:1-2
1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he
that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works,
that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to
die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
(KJV)
Rev 3:8
8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man
can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and
hast not denied my name.
(KJV)
Rev 3:15-16
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert
cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue
thee out of my mouth.
(KJV)
Rev 20:12-13
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were
opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead
were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according
to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell
delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man
according to their works.
(KJV)
You see, YOU want to stay in sin, do as your please, disobey God, walk in
your desires, wants and pleasures and still be saved, so you make up these
excuses using scripture, that you have NO clue to their meaning and throw
out the ones that condemn your theology, hypocrisy and pretense.
you wrote.
>
> Do not be deceived - the repentance, cleansing and good works are the
> product/evidence/fruit of the Holy Spirit working in the believer in
faith,
> from a willing heart to do the work of the Lord, not the other way around.
NO, the repentance, cleansing and good works are YOUR CHOICES to please GOD,
because YOU fear hellfire and condemnation, and after you have chosen to
OBEY GOD, and stop sinning, then He gives you the Holy Spirit of truth, to
guide you into all truths, and as you walk the straight and narrow road to
salvation, His mercy, grace and Spirit places you in awe and you come to
LOVE HIM with all of your heart, all of your mind, all of your soul and ALL
of your STRENGTH. You know, you say all of the right words, but have NO deep
emotional bond and understanding of them in experiencing them intimately,
for they are just the superficial and shallow rhetoric of one who has
studied the bible and learned the correct verbiage, but have NO personal,
initimate, sincere, honest and pure understanding and experience of them.
When you LIVE these words, and ALL of the words of the gospel, then you will
acquire understanding of their meaning, but until then, you really have NO
idea of what you are talking about.
--
Dore
http://spirit_of_prophecy.tripod.com/
Rev 21:7
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he
shall be my son.
(KJV)
"@" <i.am@home> wrote in message
news:pngZTSI...@newsthru.thrunet.com...
Dore
--
Dore
http://spirit_of_prophecy.tripod.com/
Rev 21:7
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he
shall be my son.
(KJV)
" Phar-Lap" <grandn...@aintree.com> wrote in message
news:grandnational-2...@ppp172.dyn27.pacific.net.au...
@
Tell me Dore - Do you actually know God?
I don't need endless pages of verses (just 1 or 2 verses would suffice) that
show us what you think God is.
@
> you wrote.
>
> Except you haven't considered what it takes to be born of the spirit?
> Obviously, if one who is born of the spirit, is like the wind, not knowing
> where it comes or goes, those who are anchored to possessions, homes,
> family, mammon and the things of THIS world are NOT like the wind, but are
> simply like the wicked.
>
Matthew 21:25-26
>
> The works of the law are the LAWS of MOSES, NOT obedience to ALL Christ
> said.
>
What did Christ say about the Law?
Matthew 5:17-19
>
> Again, the LAWS of MOSES, that no man is justified, but the just shall
live
> by faith, and having faith in Christ, means that you also BELIEVE
everything
> that HE SAID.
>
Yes, that no man (including Dore) is justified.
Matthew 5:17-19
Matthew 9:10-13
I hope that you aren't placing your faith in works to save you, but instead
placing your faith in obedience to Christ.
Matthew 22:37-40
John 1:17
>
> And that grace IS the opportunity to BE forgiven IF you repent, deny
> yourself, pick up the cross, lay down your lives, follow Christ, and walk
as
> Christ walked. And if you do many great works, even miraculous, casting
out
> demons, prophesying, etc, and still DO iniquity, and NOT the will of the
> Father, you will still perish.
>
Ah, good. I see you are beginning to accept that the "works gospel"
approach does have its shortcomings, and does not have the power to save.
Congratulations!
>
> No, it needs to be made clear that you have NO idea of what you are
talking
> about, since you throw out the scriptures that causes you to discipline
your
> heart, mind, actions to follow Christ and be His disciple, therefore
> pretending that you can be saved, while ignoring Christ, disobeying GOD,
> still in sin and earthliness, and NOT DOING THE WILL OF GOD. And you also
> throw out these scriptures and pretend they don't exist, because they
> testify against your concepts.
>
The problem is, is that you have thrown out the Laws of Moses, so that you
do not realise exactly how great the grace, forgiveness and mercy we have in
the Saviour really is.
The problem Jesus had with the Pharisees is that they chose to ignore
important aspects of the Law - justice, mercy and honesty. This was a
"servant heart" issue, which was highlighted in the Parable of the Good
Samaritan.
>
> NO, the repentance, cleansing and good works are YOUR CHOICES to please
GOD,
> because YOU fear hellfire and condemnation, and after you have chosen to
> OBEY GOD, and stop sinning, then He gives you the Holy Spirit of truth, to
> guide you into all truths, and as you walk the straight and narrow road to
> salvation, His mercy, grace and Spirit places you in awe and you come to
> LOVE HIM with all of your heart, all of your mind, all of your soul and
ALL
> of your STRENGTH. You know, you say all of the right words, but have NO
deep
> emotional bond and understanding of them in experiencing them intimately,
> for they are just the superficial and shallow rhetoric of one who has
> studied the bible and learned the correct verbiage, but have NO personal,
> initimate, sincere, honest and pure understanding and experience of them.
> When you LIVE these words, and ALL of the words of the gospel, then you
will
> acquire understanding of their meaning, but until then, you really have NO
> idea of what you are talking about.
1 John 4:18
You continue to misrepresent the gift of the Holy Spirit to a believer, by
stating that it is only given after a person has been completely purified,
in contravention to both Scripture and centuries of testimony.
I will re-state;
Do not be deceived - the repentance, cleansing and good works are the
product/evidence/fruit of the Holy Spirit working in the believer in faith,
from a willing heart to do the work of the Lord, not the other way around.
Acts 10:44-45
Galatians 3:2,5
Titus 3:4-8
Your views are consistent with those of the Pharisees, whom Jesus warned
about.
I also note that you repeatedly contradict yourself when responding to
posts.
Hebrews 9:28
Vernono
"bobe" <amo...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:lTTs9.287$8C1.13...@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com...
Whatever turns you on.
>
> bobe
>
>
>
Dore
> > Except you haven't considered what it takes to be born of the spirit?
> > Obviously, if one who is born of the spirit, is like the wind, not
knowing
> > where it comes or goes, those who are anchored to possessions, homes,
> > family, mammon and the things of THIS world are NOT like the wind, but
are
> > simply like the wicked.
> >
>
> Matthew 21:25-26
Matt 21:25-26
25 The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they
reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say
unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?
26 But if we shall say, Of men; we fear the people; for all hold John as a
prophet.
(KJV)
The baptism of John was with water, not of the spirit. It was the washing
away of the old man of sin and earthliness, for didn't Christ, after coming
out of the desert and his earthly life to begin His ministry, begin by being
baptized by John, in WATER, and THEN taught how to be baptized in the
spirit.
it was written.
> > The works of the law are the LAWS of MOSES, NOT obedience to ALL Christ
> > said.
> >
>
> What did Christ say about the Law?
>
> Matthew 5:17-19
Matt 5:17-19
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not
come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one
tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and
shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:
but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the
kingdom of heaven.
(KJV)
And He did fulfill the LAW of Moses, for when He came, the Old covenant was
made non-affect and now HIS words, and teachings were the requirements of
the WILL of GOD. And regarding the commandments that He spoke are all of
those that HE Himself, spoke for His commandments are many under the NEW
covenant.
it was written.
> > Again, the LAWS of MOSES, that no man is justified, but the just shall
> live
> > by faith, and having faith in Christ, means that you also BELIEVE
> everything
> > that HE SAID.
> >
>
> Yes, that no man (including Dore) is justified.
I don't follow the Laws of Moses, for they were fulfilled and finished. I am
justified by walking and DOING the WILL of GOD, by OBEDIENCE to every word
that Christ taught.
>
> Matthew 5:17-19
> Matthew 9:10-13
Matt 9:10-13
10 And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many
publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples.
11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth
your Master with publicans and sinners?
12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not
a physician, but they that are sick.
13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not
sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to
repentance.
(KJV)
Yes, and all were called 2,000 years ago into repentance and given ALL of
the words of Christ to OBEY. What is taking you so long to do it?
you wrote.
> I hope that you aren't placing your faith in works to save you, but
instead
> placing your faith in obedience to Christ.
>
> Matthew 22:37-40
> John 1:17
You see you don't know the difference between works and obedience to GOD, in
purity, forsaking earthly things, being righteous, holy, walking in spirit
and truth, which are NOT works, but necessary to walk in the kingdom of GOD
to be redeemed.
Matt 22:37-40
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart,
and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
(KJV)
And what does it mean to LOVE GOD with ALL of your heart, ALL of your mind,
ALL of your soul and ALL of your STRENGTH? IT means that you OBEY every word
that God has provided, and DO ALL that He says according to His will, with
the laying down of your WHOLE life, denying yourself, picking of the cross,
following Christ by living and DOING all that HE did and LIVED. And when you
do the first, the second comes naturally.
John 1:7
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men
through him might believe.
(KJV)
And not only do you have to believe in Christ, but BELIEVE that every word,
command, demand and requirements out of His mouth was from God as well and
MUST be obeyed and adhered to.
it was written.
> > And that grace IS the opportunity to BE forgiven IF you repent, deny
> > yourself, pick up the cross, lay down your lives, follow Christ, and
walk
> as
> > Christ walked. And if you do many great works, even miraculous, casting
> out
> > demons, prophesying, etc, and still DO iniquity, and NOT the will of the
> > Father, you will still perish.
> >
>
> Ah, good. I see you are beginning to accept that the "works gospel"
> approach does have its shortcomings, and does not have the power to save.
> Congratulations!
>
> >
NO, there are works and there are requirements to purify your soul and walk
in the spirit to be holy, sinless, Godly, righteous and perfect before the
throne, prepared for judgment. The works of great things are the fluff that
comes after, but to do the works without FIRST doing the will of GOD, is
worthless.
Matt 7:21-27
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the
kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in
heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in
thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many
wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye
that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will
liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat
upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not,
shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat
upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
(KJV)
you wrote.
> The problem is, is that you have thrown out the Laws of Moses, so that you
> do not realise exactly how great the grace, forgiveness and mercy we have
in
> the Saviour really is.
I have thrown out the laws of Moses, because they have been finished and
completed 2,000 years ago and no longer apply. What YOU have thrown out is
the requirements to be OBEDIENT to GOD and DO the WILL of the Father, which
the previous scripture clearly demands to be given the kingdom of heaven.
you wrote. .
>
> The problem Jesus had with the Pharisees is that they chose to ignore
> important aspects of the Law - justice, mercy and honesty. This was a
> "servant heart" issue, which was highlighted in the Parable of the Good
> Samaritan.
And the problem I have with your Christians today is that you are exactly
like the Pharisees, IGNORING the commands, demands, and requirements of the
WILL of the Father, while living in sin and earthliness, and then EXPECTING
to be given the promises, grace, love and forgiveness without repentance as
well.
it was written.
I Jn 4:8
8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
(KJV)
Yes, God is LOVE, and gives it generously, when are YOU going to LOVE HIM in
return by being obedient to His will?
you wrote.
>
> You continue to misrepresent the gift of the Holy Spirit to a believer, by
> stating that it is only given after a person has been completely purified,
> in contravention to both Scripture and centuries of testimony.
No, common sense, tells you that the Holy Spirit cannot dwell with iniquity.
Matt 23:27-28
27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto
whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within
full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are
full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
(KJV)
Acts 5:32
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost,
whom God hath given to them that obey him.
(KJV)
The reason I stated thus, is because a woman asked me to lay hands on her
and pray for her to receive the gift of tongues, and the Holy Spirit did not
come. Afterwards, I asked the Father, why she did not receive the Holy
Spirit and an angel told me that she had sin in her heart.
you wrote.
>
> I will re-state;
> Do not be deceived - the repentance, cleansing and good works are the
> product/evidence/fruit of the Holy Spirit working in the believer in
faith,
> from a willing heart to do the work of the Lord, not the other way around.
NO, in order to provide evidence that you are serious about your faith, you
begin by learning what sin is and then repent of it, and when you have
repented of all sin, you are completely cleansed. How can you receive the
Holy Spirit if there has been no change of heart, repentance and purity for
Him to want to dwell within your heart? Good works come after you change
your heart and live as Christ.
you wrote.>
> Your views are consistent with those of the Pharisees, whom Jesus warned
> about.
No, My views are consistent with scriptural truths.
Luke 6:46-49
46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will
shew you to whom he is like:
48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the
foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently
upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a
foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat
vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
(KJV)
Matt 7:21
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the
kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in
heaven.
(KJV)
you wrote.
>
> I also note that you repeatedly contradict yourself when responding to
> posts.
No, I don't you don't understand my words.
you wrote.
>
> Hebrews 9:28
>
Heb 9:28
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that
look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
(KJV)
Mal 3:18
18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked,
between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.
(KJV)
1 Pet 4:17-19
17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if
it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel
of God?
18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the
sinner appear?
19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the
keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
(KJV)
--
Dore
http://spirit_of_prophecy.tripod.com/
Rev 21:7
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he
shall be my son.
(KJV)
"@" <i.am@home> wrote in message
news:LZvYMwV...@newsthru.thrunet.com...
@
> > You continue to misrepresent the gift of the Holy Spirit to a believer,
by
> > stating that it is only given after a person has been completely
purified,
> > in contravention to both Scripture and centuries of testimony.
>
> No, common sense, tells you that the Holy Spirit cannot dwell with
iniquity.
Based upon your "common sense", Jesus would have never set foot in the
temple, because it was over-run with money-changers and Pharisees.
Perhaps that is part of the problem, you apply your own human values,
instead of referring to Scripture and centuries of testimony that prove your
false claims to be incorrect.
Galatians 5:16-25 does tell us very clearly about the work of the Holy
Spirit in the believer.
The problem here, is that you still continue to falsely claim that the gift
of the Holy Spirit is given as a result of "righteous acts" rather than by
believing the Gospel message.
Perhaps it is as a result of people like you, who make an excellent advocate
for instilling doubt to the benefit of Satan, that people end up thinking
they will never be good enough, and put off decisions to commit to the Lord.
Matthew 23:13-14
I notice you completely ignored the following three verses that deal
specifically with the gift of the Holy Spirit;
Acts 10:44-45
Galatians 3:2,5
Titus 3:4-8
The reason is clear - they contradict your false claims in regard to your
"Pharisaical requirements" to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
People do not receive the Holy Spirit because they practice purity, they
receive it because they believe the gospel message.
You are also in conflict with Ephesians 2:8-9
Perhaps you would care to explain what acts of righteousness and repentence
Saul engaged in prior to his conversion?
-----------------
Luke 18:9-14
Matthew 21:31
Dore
> Based upon your "common sense", Jesus would have never set foot in the
> temple, because it was over-run with money-changers and Pharisees.
Christ in the flesh walking the earth, has nothing to do with the Holy
Spirit and HIS indwelling in souls and spirits. They are two completely
different things and purposes.
you wrote.
>
> Perhaps that is part of the problem, you apply your own human values,
> instead of referring to Scripture and centuries of testimony that prove
your
> false claims to be incorrect.
Ha, I apply NO human values to anything, but apply ALL commands, demands,
requirements and truths of GOD regarding the SPIRIT, HEART AND SOULS OF MEN.
The scriptures is the information for men to discipline their physical lives
into walking in the kingdom of God in spirit and truth. YOU prefer to stand
outside of LIVING in scriptural truths, and just using them to support your
wrong thinking.
you wrote.
>
> Galatians 5:16-25 does tell us very clearly about the work of the Holy
> Spirit in the believer.
Gal 5:16-26
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of
the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the
flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the
things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery,
fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife,
seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I
tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do
such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering,
gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections
and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one
another.
(KJV)
Yea, the Holy Spirit works in the believer IF he walks IN THE SPIRIT,
instead of in the lusts of the flesh. Now the question is, how does one walk
IN THE SPIRIT, and NOT in the lusts of the flesh? By OBEDIENCE to all Christ
said, forsaking the things of the earth, purifying himself, and NOT sinning.
I Jn 3:2-10
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we
shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for
we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is
pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the
transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no
sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him,
neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is
righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the
beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might
destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in
him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil:
whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not
his brother.
(KJV)
you wrote.
>
> The problem here, is that you still continue to falsely claim that the
gift
> of the Holy Spirit is given as a result of "righteous acts" rather than by
> believing the Gospel message.
What good is believing in the gospel message without DOING what it says.
That is like looking at a piece of fruit, believing that it nourishes your
body, but NOT eating it to receive the benefit thereof.
James 2:20
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
(KJV)
Purifying and disciplining yourself into holiness and righteousness is NOT
acts, but necessary for a pure, and holy soul.
you wrote.
> Perhaps it is as a result of people like you, who make an excellent
advocate
> for instilling doubt to the benefit of Satan, that people end up thinking
> they will never be good enough, and put off decisions to commit to the
Lord.
>
> Matthew 23:13-14
No, it is people like me, who inspires the complacent and those who take God
for granted to stop living in their lies, earthliness, deception and
self-imagined security and comforts of being saved, when they are NOT. I am
NOT talking to unbelievers, but those who already CLAIM to believe, and
PRETEND that already have committed themselves to Christ. If they believe in
God, believe in the bible, then they should also believe that if they submit
and obey God, that He will teach, uplift, support, sustain, lead them where
He wants them to go and be, cleanse them from all iniquity if they repent,
and bring them into the righteousness, purity and truth required to be
redeemed, IF they are willing, obedient and have faith. There is only two
choices. Submit and obey God, and DO HIS WILL, to receive salvation or be
condemned to hell.
Matt 23:13
13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the
kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither
suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
(KJV)
And this is exactly what YOU and modern Christianity is doing. Lying and
deceiving men into thinking that they can be saved, and encouraging them to
seek and attain the things of this world, believe lies and heresies, and
don't have to bother DOING what GOD has commanded, demanded and required.
YOU are teaching them that they don't have to honor, obey, honor, respect or
please God in any way, as if GOD is their servant, to do THEIR will, and
please themselves. YOU shut up heaven to men, with your lies and falsehoods,
telling them that all that they have to do is believe, while still living in
sin, darkness and evil, walking in the lusts and things of the flesh. YOU
are HYPOCRITES, pretending to BELIEVE the gospel, while IGNORING everything
that it says that requires something from you. I am NO hypocrite, for I have
laid down my whole life, committed all things, forsaken all things, and DONE
all things to honor, respect, love and OBEY GOD.
I don't understand you people. When I got serious about my walk, and began
to doubt what modern Christianity had taught me and sought the truth on my
own and discovered that the word clearly stated that I cannot serve God and
mammon and that I had to forsake all things, go sell everything that I
possessed and give the money to the poor, lay down my life, deny myself,
pick up the cross, and FOLLOW and WALK as Christ did, as it was written. I
had NO hesitation, but did it immediately, because I BELIEVED and trusted
GOD and ALL that was written and wanted to PLEASE HIM, be first in His
kingdom, and KNOW HIM intimately. Why don't you people feel the same way?
you wrote.
> I notice you completely ignored the following three verses that deal
> specifically with the gift of the Holy Spirit;
>
> Acts 10:44-45
> Galatians 3:2,5
> Titus 3:4-8
Acts 10:44-45
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which
heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as
came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift
of the Holy Ghost.
(KJV)
And didn't all of those people BELIEVE the gospel that Peter taught and DO
what was required of them? If they didn't then they wouldn't have been there
in the first place, but out still wondering what Peter was talking about.
Gal 3:2-5
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the
law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by
the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles
among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
(KJV)
You seem to ignore what it means to be WALKING IN FAITH. It is NOT
pretending to believe, while NOT DOING what Faith requires. What I teach is
NOT the laws of MOSES, but the commands, demands and requirements that
Christ taught under the NEW covenant. What do you think they were suffering
from? BECAUSE they believed, and sacrificed their lives to OBEY the words of
Christ, to forsake the things of the world, and suffer the persecution and
rejection of Jewish society and religion. You quote scriptures with a
shallow and superficial understanding, having NO idea of what you are
talking about, NOT considering, and contemplating each and every word and
statement and what it means.
Titus 3:4-8
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man
appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his
mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy
Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to
the hope of eternal life.
8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm
constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to
maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
(KJV)
You don't know the difference between works of righteousness and
purification of the soul, through obedience to God. Consider " the washing
of regeneration" and what that means. It means their souls have been
regenerated back onto the earth for as many times that God required for them
to see and believe the time and teachings of Christ and follow in His ways
to receive the grace of forgiveness for their repentance, and justification
because of their obedience to Christ. Belief in GOD, is as much BELIEVING in
ALL that Christ said, and thus having the FAITH to be obedient to it.
you wrote.
>
> The reason is clear - they contradict your false claims in regard to your
> "Pharisaical requirements" to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
No, your ignorance, and blindness, because of your superficial and shallow
faith, by NOT LIVING the word, but simply CLAIMING belief, is worthless.
you wrote.
>
> People do not receive the Holy Spirit because they practice purity, they
> receive it because they believe the gospel message.
Again, what good is pretending to believe without BELIEVING in what was
said, commanded, demanded and required, according to all of the words of
Christ. The fact is, if you do NOT DO what Christ said, YOU have NO faith or
belief at all.
you wrote.
>
> You are also in conflict with Ephesians 2:8-9
Eph 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is
the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
(KJV)
NO, your lack of understanding and comprehension, misinterpreting this
verse, is what is in conflict. What is faith? Is faith pretending to
believe, but not having any faith to DO what Christ said? If you BELIEVE in
Christ, then you BELIEVE that every word from His mouth is valid and comes
from GOD and MUST be obeyed. Works are doing acts of goodness, WITHOUT
believing in Christ, and dismissing His commands, demands and requirements,
thinking you will still be saved.
you wrote.
>
> Perhaps you would care to explain what acts of righteousness and
repentance
> Saul engaged in prior to his conversion?
>
He had none prior to his conversion, and it was the miraculous experience
with Christ, that caused his conversion into repentance. Then when he
repented, he sought Peter and the apostles to learn of all that Christ said,
and then DID IT to become righteous.
1 Cor 4:9-13
9 For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were
appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to
angels, and to men.
10 We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak,
but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised.
11 Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked,
and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace;
12 And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being
persecuted, we suffer it:
13 Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are
the offscouring of all things unto this day.
(KJV)
Matt 19:27
27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and
followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
(KJV)
Perhaps you would like to explain how you can consider yourself a follower
of Christ and yet NOT DOING all that He did, nor living as HE lived, nor
being obedient to anything that He said, and still THINK you will be saved?
--
Dore
http://spirit_of_prophecy.tripod.com/
Rev 21:7
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he
shall be my son.
(KJV)
"@" <i.am@home> wrote in message
news:iP8rIbI...@newsthru.thrunet.com...
@
>> Based upon your "common sense", Jesus would have never set foot in the
>> temple, because it was over-run with money-changers and Pharisees.
>
>Christ in the flesh walking the earth, has nothing to do with the Holy
>Spirit and HIS indwelling in souls and spirits. They are two completely
>different things and purposes.
I am surprised that someone who claims to have such a deep understanding of
the Biblical message could not appreciate the obvious analogy, but then that
is probably because you have previously preached a "works" gospel, and don't
seem to understand the cleansing work of the Holy Spirit in the believer..
> > Perhaps you would care to explain what acts of righteousness and
> repentance
> > Saul engaged in prior to his conversion?
> >
> He had none prior to his conversion, and it was the miraculous experience
> with Christ, that caused his conversion into repentance. Then when he
> repented, he sought Peter and the apostles to learn of all that Christ
said,
> and then DID IT to become righteous.
So, just to confirm your understanding....
Does belief in the gospel message lead to acts of repentence, or
Do acts of repentence lead to belief in the gospel message?
(In other words, when does one receive the Holy Spirit)
Useful reading: 1 Corinthians 13:1-13
JesusCult.org
<snip>
Based on what? Your perceptions?
Jesus specifically contradicts your statement.
"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the
gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be
saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs
shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils;
they shall speak with new tongues;
They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it
shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall
recover." Mark 16:15-18
If your individual Christian experience (or even mine) does not live
up to the standards of the Word of God, that does not make the Word
void.
JesusCult.org
> I need to find some verses about the subject of the Holy Spirit speaking
> thru the preacher as he preaches.
>
> Askjo
What really is the point of this question? We are ALL called to be
preachers or proclaimers of the Gospel. There is no ministry office
of "preacher" in the Church. Everyone who believes is called to
proclaim the Gospel.
The question should be, "How do YOU know when the Holy Spirit is
speaking through YOU?" If you know the voice of the Spirit in your
own life, then He will show you when He is speaking through others
because He leads you into all truth.
Every Christian is commanded to be in submission to Christ through the
leading of the Holy Spirit, bringing us into obedience to God the
Father. Being led by the Spirit of God is not a special calling of
ministers.
Unless you are not a Christian, I am completely perplexed by the point
of your question.
Aaron
>I need to find some verses about the subject of the Holy Spirit speaking
>thru the preacher as he preaches.
There are no instances of this happening to a Gentile.
There are instances of this happening to Jews, particularly Moses.
Of course you have to use the Original Hebrew because the English
translations cloud the issue.
>
>Askjo
>
bobe
JesusCult.org <in...@jesuscult.org> wrote in message
news:9cfae194.02102...@posting.google.com...
Can't say anything, except Amen!
bobe