Jesus is not a sinner.
Michael Christ
Since Jesus does not sin, you are not in Christ.
Michael Christ
Randy ®
Michael Christ <Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
> If you say you are in Christ and sin, you are saying Jesus sins.
>
> Since Jesus does not sin, you are not in Christ.
And we know just from the way Michael behaves in here that he
still sins, so his own standard has just disqualified him as
being in Christ.
1 John 1:8 NIV
(8) If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the
truth is not in us.
Since Michael claims to be without sin, he deceives himself, and
the truth is not in him.
Galatians 2:17 NIV
(17) "If, while we seek to be justified in Christ, it becomes
evident that we ourselves are sinners, does that mean that Christ
promotes sin? Absolutely not!
Peter erred and had to be rebuked by Paul, and this occurred
after we know Peter was in fact saved. This verse also directly
says "God forbid" to the idea that if we sin, then it means
Christ must also sin.
Romans 7:18-25 NIV
(18) I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful
nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot
carry it out.
(19) For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I
do not want to do�this I keep on doing.
(20) Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who
do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
(21) So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is
right there with me.
(22) For in my inner being I delight in God's law;
(23) but I see another law at work in the members of my body,
waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of
the law of sin at work within my members.
(24) What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body
of death?
(25) Thanks be to God�through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I
myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful
nature a slave to the law of sin.
Paul describes his struggle with his "sinful nature"
Galatians 5:16-17 NIV
(16) So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the
desires of the sinful nature.
(17) For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the
Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature.
They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what
you want.
Paul instructs the Galatians to walk by the Spirit and not
gratify the desires of the "sinful nature". If they didn't have
a sinful nature, there would be no need for this instruction.
Ephesians 4:22 NIV
(22) You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to
put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful
desires;
"is being corrupted", is in the present, not past or aorist
tense. The old self is not eradicated until glory, else it
wouldn't still be in the process of corrupting, and they wouldn't
need any warning to put it off.
In fact, when is the last time someone read a piece of Scripture
that didn't warn _believers_ to avoid sin, or reference the
unfortunate consequences of their sin? The NT epistles
_constantly_ warn believers to avoid sin, put sin away, and to
yield to the Spirit, which would be unnecessary if the sin nature
were eradicated and true believers were incapable of sinning any
more.
Now we have seen the direct testimony of numerous passages of
Scripture that directly state we have a "sinful nature", that
show examples of people we know to have been saved having a
struggle with their sin nature and even committing sin and error.
We have the constant warnings throughout all Scripture, for the
righteous to avoid sin, and walk in the Spirit rather than their
old nature. All of this would be unnecessary, if the sin nature
were eradicated at the moment of salvation, or if believers did
not or could not sin.
Now let's consider another verse misused in an attempt to promote
the lie that we do not still have a sin nature or sin after we're
saved:
2 Corinthians 5:17 NIV
(17) Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation;
the old has gone, the new has come!
Notice this is referring to our _position_, not what we actually
experience in our daily walk. It is "in Christ" that we are a
new creation, just as in Ephesians 1, it is "in Christ" that we
are "seated in the heavenlies". Does that mean we are no longer
living on earth? No, it means that in our standing with God, we
are seated in the heavenlies, "in Christ", even though we know we
also still struggle with life here on earth. The fact that
spiritually, we are in heaven, doesn't change the fact we are
_also_ living on earth in our bodies.
Likewise, the fact that in our position in Christ, we have died
to sin and been raised to newness of life, have become a new
creation, etc., doesn't change the fact we also still have a sin
nature that we struggle with, so long as we walk on earth in
these unredeemed bodies (Romans 8).
Our position in Christ is the standing we have with God that
makes it possible for us to enjoy and live in the spiritual
benefits of salvation, but it does not mean our sin nature or our
struggle with sin has been eradicated.
--
Have you heard Christ died for our sins, and God raised Him
from the dead? Did you know God saves you from hell and
gives you eternal life through faith in this finished work alone,
not your merits (Jn. 3:16; 1 Cor. 15:1-3; Eph. 2:8-10; 2 Thess.
1:8-9)? This is so man cannot boast, and God alone gets the
glory (Eph. 2:8-9).
______________________________________________
www.faithguard.org
www.twitter.com/faithguard
www.facebook.com/faithguard
______________________________________________
Merlin
jesus can't sin unless jesus is in human form and jesus is not in
human form at the present time, so jesus can't sin at the moment.
temptation is not a sin, unless one commits to the temptation.
do human bodies have this 'original sin' in them as so many christians
say they do?
then jesus had original sin in jesus while in human form in a human
body.
in love with the living loving gay jesus,
merlin
alt.bible.prophecy, alt.christnet.christianlife,
alt.christnet.theology, alt.religion.christianity, alt.christnet
alt.bible, alt.christnet.bible, alt.christnet, alt.christnet.prayer
The Doctor
Point very well taken. Go and sin no more.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doc...@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.myspace.com/502748630
Merry Christmas 2009 and Happy New Year 2010
Michael Christ
If you say you are in Christ and sin, you are saying Jesus sins.
Since Jesus does not sin, you are not in Christ.
Ask the Lord Jesus Christ to come into your life and be your LORD and
SAVIOUR, not the Bible, but Him, Randy. Put your little self-styled Bible
and translations down and kneel and pray. Ask, seek, and knock and wait on
Him to show you the path in your daily life in which you have to walk in
faith to lose that horrible nature.
Joh 12:25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life
in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
Michael Christ
PS Jesus is not a sinner, Randy.
"Randy �" <pulpi...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5Kednczkm6iNdZbW...@giganews.com...
Michael Christ
"The Doctor" <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:heh1tq$m7d$1...@gallifrey.nk.ca...
> In article <2bPOm.57181$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
> Michael Christ <Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
>>If you say you are in Christ and sin, you are saying Jesus sins.
>>
>>Since Jesus does not sin, you are not in Christ.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Michael Christ
Doc wrote:
> Point very well taken. Go and sin no more.
According to the modern day Sanhedrin, you go and continue sinning and being
a sinner, but not habitually sin. Whatever state that is. :-).
No faith you see. What you get is a man-made convoluted lukewarm grey area
abyss that appears to accommodate. Buckleys, as we say here in Australia.
Michael Christ
Michael Christ
"Merlin" <merli...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3588be8a-5e41-4348...@m35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 24, 6:10 am, "Michael Christ" <JesusisL...@Father.com> wrote:
>> If you say you are in Christ and sin, you are saying Jesus sins.
>>
>> Since Jesus does not sin, you are not in Christ.
>>
>> Michael Christ
>
> jesus can't sin unless jesus is in human form and jesus is not in
> human form at the present time, so jesus can't sin at the moment.
>
> temptation is not a sin, unless one commits to the temptation.
>
> do human bodies have this 'original sin' in them as so many christians
> say they do?
> then jesus had original sin in jesus while in human form in a human
> body.
>
> in love with the living loving gay jesus,
>
> merlin
Nice to see you appreciate a loving happy Jesus.
In answer to your question, yes.
We are spirit beings, not just flesh and blood.
We are made in the image (spiritual) of God.
In the spirit is where true reality is.
Michael Christ
bob young
Michael Christ wrote:
Since Jesus is simply a myth from the far distant past,
you are . . . . . heading for the nut house..
[Of course if you have verifiable proof to the contrary please trot
it out.
Failing that please be good enough to refrain from spreading false
information]
bob young
Randy ° wrote:
> On Tue, 11/24/09, at 5:10:54AM,
> Michael Christ <Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
>
> > If you say you are in Christ and sin, you are saying Jesus sins.
> >
> > Since Jesus does not sin, you are not in Christ.
>
> And we know just from the way Michael behaves in here that he
> still sins, so his own standard has just disqualified him as
> being in Christ.
"Christians, it is needless to say, utterly detest each other. They
slander each other constantly with the vilest forms of abuse and
cannot come to any sort of agreement in their teachings. Each sect
brands its own, fills the head of its own with deceitful nonsense,
and makes perfect little pigs of those it wins over to its side."
[R.J.Hoffmann]
Does it not occur to you that were there a god, that god would make
doubly sure that those responsible for it's dogma would be in
complete agreement ?
That this is so obviously NOT the case, what are we to put this down
to ?
>
>
> 1 John 1:8 NIV
> (8) If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the
> truth is not in us.
>
> Since Michael claims to be without sin, he deceives himself, and
> the truth is not in him.
>
> Galatians 2:17 NIV
> (17) "If, while we seek to be justified in Christ, it becomes
> evident that we ourselves are sinners, does that mean that Christ
> promotes sin? Absolutely not!
>
> Peter erred and had to be rebuked by Paul, and this occurred
> after we know Peter was in fact saved. This verse also directly
> says "God forbid" to the idea that if we sin, then it means
> Christ must also sin.
>
> Romans 7:18-25 NIV
> (18) I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful
> nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot
> carry it out.
> (19) For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I
> do not want to do½this I keep on doing.
> (20) Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who
> do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
> (21) So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is
> right there with me.
> (22) For in my inner being I delight in God's law;
> (23) but I see another law at work in the members of my body,
> waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of
> the law of sin at work within my members.
> (24) What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body
> of death?
> (25) Thanks be to God½through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I
bob young
The Doctor wrote:
> In article <2bPOm.57181$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
> Michael Christ <Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
> >If you say you are in Christ and sin, you are saying Jesus sins.
> >
> >Since Jesus does not sin, you are not in Christ.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Michael Christ
>
> Point very well taken. Go and sin no more.
S I N . . . . . .
Sin has always been a tool of the clergy, used and adopted to bolster membership. It
is seized upon with zeal because there is a universal distaste for sin - even a
thief gets highly agitated if someone breaks into his home and steals his loot.
Sin was around long before man could speak in simple tongue, let alone write. Eons
later sin was
hijacked, applied, used, twisted and manipulated by the clergy with more force and
enthusiasm than any other example of religious dogma.
Until preachers and their hangers on, such as 'Doc' here, defer from manipulating
sin as a propagating tool - they too will never be free from sin themselves.
bob young
Michael Christ wrote:
> "The Doctor" <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
> news:heh1tq$m7d$1...@gallifrey.nk.ca...
> > In article <2bPOm.57181$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
> > Michael Christ <Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
> >>If you say you are in Christ and sin, you are saying Jesus sins.
> >>
> >>Since Jesus does not sin, you are not in Christ.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Michael Christ
>
> Doc wrote:
> > Point very well taken. Go and sin no more.
>
> According to the modern day Sanhedrin, you go and continue sinning and being
> a sinner, but not habitually sin. Whatever state that is. :-).
Sin has always been a tool of the clergy, used and adopted to bolster
membership. It is seized upon with zeal because there is a universal distaste
for sin - even a thief gets highly agitated if someone breaks into his home and
steals his loot.
Sin was around long before man could speak in simple tongue, let alone write.
Eons later sin was
hijacked, applied, used, twisted and manipulated by the clergy with more force
and enthusiasm than any other example of religious dogma.
Until preachers and their hangers on, such as cobber Mickey here, defer from
manipulating sin as a propagating tool - they too will never be free from sin
themselves.
>
>
merlin
> Sin
sin = the consequences of our actions.
> has always been a tool of the clergy, used and adopted to bolster
> membership.
yes, this may be true, yet there are always consequences for our
actions.
christian sin is as close as it gets to the eastern concept of karma.
> It is seized upon with zeal because there is a universal distaste
> for sin
by absolutely everyone? don't think so.
> - even a thief gets highly agitated if someone breaks into his home and
> steals his loot.
there is always a better a thief.
> Sin was around long before man could speak in simple tongue, let alone write.
> Eons later sin was
> hijacked, applied, used, twisted and manipulated by the clergy with more force
> and enthusiasm than any other example of religious dogma.
everyone human has the potential for creating their own religion.
not all religions speak as you do young bob about religion.
> Until
there is only now. and now is better than before, which might hint
that later will even better than now, tho there is only the now.
> preachers and their hangers on,
everyone seems to find someone or idea at their level in this now.
> such as cobber Mickey here, defer from
> manipulating sin as a propagating tool - they too will never be free from sin
> themselves.
we all make mistakes.
> > No faith you see. What you get is a man-made convoluted lukewarm grey area
> > abyss that appears to accommodate. Buckleys, as we say here in Australia.
>
> > Michael Christ
no artists? no poets? nothing that matters outside your faith?
ouch.
in love with the living loving gay jesus,
merlin
alt.bible, alt.bible.prophecy, alt.christnet.christianlife,
alt.christnet.theology, alt.christnet
alt.religion.christianity, alt.christnet.bible, alt.christnet,
alt.christnet.prayer
Fred Thomas
> On Nov 25, 4:50 am, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
>
>> Sin
>
> sin = the consequences of our actions.
>
Sin would be an action.
Consequences would be the result of the action.
Merlin
> merlin wrote:
> > On Nov 25, 4:50 am, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
>
> >> Sin
>
> > sin = the consequences of our actions.
>
> Sin would be an action.
> Consequences would be the result of the action.
what is the difference for you between result and consequences?
you splitting hairs?
The original idea of sin was missing the mark,
as in when one promises god to do something and then doesn't do it.
so it isn't the action itself that is sin, the accumulated weight of
our non action or inability to accomplish a promise.
this is where modern christianity has changed the concept to mean,
breaking a rule, rather than breaking a promise.
for rules have become important these days than anyone's personal word
is important.
so the meaning of sin was changed to enforce something from an
organized religious concept
rather than the responsibility of the individual to live up to his or
her ideals/principles/or promises.
consequences and sin can accrue with or without action.
for each is the wake of what we do and don't do for god.
Fred Thomas
> On Dec 10, 3:07 pm, Fred Thomas <f...@aol.com> wrote:
>> merlin wrote:
>>> On Nov 25, 4:50 am, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
>>>> Sin
>>> sin = the consequences of our actions.
>> Sin would be an action.
>> Consequences would be the result of the action.
>
> what is the difference for you between result and consequences?
> you splitting hairs?
>
Sin: an offense against religious or moral law.
Consequence: something produced by a cause or necessarily following from a set
of conditions
That's hardly splitting hairs. Have you won while still running a race? Running
is the action (sin), winning, coming in second or last is the result of running
the race (consequence).
Speeding is the action, getting caught and getting a ticket is the consequence.
Not getting caught is also a consequence in that you have a feeling of getting
away with it, that feeling is the consequence.
You ought to try using a dictionary sometime.
Thommadura
> Merlin wrote:
>> On Dec 10, 3:07 pm, Fred Thomas <f...@aol.com> wrote:
>>> merlin wrote:
>>>> On Nov 25, 4:50 am, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
>>>>> Sin
>>>> sin = the consequences of our actions.
>>> Sin would be an action.
>>> Consequences would be the result of the action.
>>
>> what is the difference for you between result and consequences?
>> you splitting hairs?
>>
>
> Sin: an offense against religious or moral law.
Since sin as used in this group is an offense against a god - and since
no god is proven to exist - it is NOT possible to actually sin - since
no one can actually establish what a god considers to be an offense.
A single creator - who created ALL things - all good and ALL evil -
logically would not consider ANY of his own actions bad - so evil
cannot be established to be a sin
Fred Thomas
That of course would be the second part of the discussion. IF a god does not
exist, there can be no transgression of said god's laws. With no transgression
of said gods law sin can not exist, religious laws can not exist. So the
equation sin=consequences can not be factual. There can be no consequences for
something that does not exist.
Ike E 12/10/2009
"Fred Thomas" <fr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:hfrqq3$9j2$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
[snip]
> Sin: an offense against religious or moral law.
Wrong.
Sin: An offense that does injury to another person and is therefore
prohibited.
And you don't get to define sin--God does.
[snip]
Ike
Ike E 12/10/2009
[snip]
> That of course would be the second part of the discussion. IF a god does
> not exist, there can be no transgression of said god's laws. With no
> transgression of said gods law sin can not exist, religious laws can not
> exist. So the equation sin=consequences can not be factual. There can be
> no consequences for something that does not exist.
LOL
And you be sure to tell God that when you see Him.
<chuckle>
Ike
Merlin
> Merlin wrote:
> > On Dec 10, 3:07 pm, Fred Thomas <f...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> merlin wrote:
> >>> On Nov 25, 4:50 am, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
> >>>> Sin
> >>> sin = the consequences of our actions.
> >> Sin would be an action.
> >> Consequences would be the result of the action.
>
> > what is the difference for you between result and consequences?
> > you splitting hairs?
>
> Sin: an offense against religious or moral law.
not god. Thank you for making merlin's point.
these are all rules set up by men for men.
and breaking man's laws are a sin in your eyes.
> Consequence: something produced by a cause or necessarily following from a set
> of conditions
a man made law is a pre-existing condition set up by other men
> That's hardly splitting hairs.
you have proved merlin's point.
this isn't about god, this is about the training other men to conform
to your faith.
and when others break the rules of your faith you say god will get
them.
god don't get people. or jesus would have condemned the guy on the
left of jesus on cross to hell.
when jesus did not.
> Have you won while still running a race?
no one race makes you a campion. being a champion comes from a series
of winning races.
> Running
> is the action (sin),
running is not a sin.
> winning, coming in second or last is the result of running
> the race (consequence).
coming in not first, is not a value judgement.
coming in not first is the prize of not quitting.
you are interested in winners and loosers, merlin is not.
god does not give up when at first we don't succeed, god wants us to
try and try again.
> Speeding is the action,
better choice. speeding to the hospital or away from a police offer
chasing you?
> getting caught and getting a ticket is the consequence.
the officer often not give a ticket and escort a car to the hospital,
often when the female in the care is about to give birth.
there are exceptions for every thing you say, yet you give no rooms
for personal issues.
you blanketly say all action is sin.
> Not getting caught is also a consequence
when cheating becomes a habit yes.
when fear becomes the motive, yes.
when hate is realized as the prise? yes.
> in that you have a feeling of getting
> away with it,
it is the habit of getting away with something that often trips people
up.
not anyone event, the repetition.
> that feeling is the consequence.
now you are talking about fear again.
do you only worship god cause you are afraid?
you only worship god so god will not get you?
> You ought to try using a dictionary sometime.
as your habit seems to want to lecture others?
why not share rather than be so rude?
in love with the living loving gay jesus,
merlin
when all we want to do is preach, we never learn or think.
Fred Thomas
"Ike E 12/10/2009" <xhermanei...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:hfsuif$kle$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> <chuckle>
>
> Ike
>
Fred Thomas
>
> "Fred Thomas" <fr...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:hfrqq3$9j2$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> [snip]
>
>> Sin: an offense against religious or moral law.
>
> Wrong.
>
> Sin: An offense that does injury to another person and is therefore
> prohibited.
sex out side of marriage does no harm, yet according to you myth book is a sin,
your god/man said it is a sin to even look at a woman with the intend to have
sex is a sin..............there are many other "examples: of "non-harming" sin
in the bible.
>
> And you don't get to define sin--God does.
>
God has not defined anything, god does not exist.
> [snip]
>
> Ike
>
fred thomas
> On Dec 10, 4:56 pm, Fred Thomas <f...@aol.com> wrote:
>> Merlin wrote:
>>> On Dec 10, 3:07 pm, Fred Thomas <f...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>> merlin wrote:
>>>>> On Nov 25, 4:50 am, bob young <alaspect...@netvigator.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Sin
>>>>> sin = the consequences of our actions.
>>>> Sin would be an action.
>>>> Consequences would be the result of the action.
>>> what is the difference for you between result and consequences?
>>> you splitting hairs?
>> Sin: an offense against religious or moral law.
>
> not god. Thank you for making merlin's point.
> these are all rules set up by men for men.
> and breaking man's laws are a sin in your eyes.
>
There is no question any rules or laws are man made, as that deity's so far have
been shown to no exist. However words bring implications, sin implies a rule or
law giving by a "higher authority" a definite religious implication. I doubt
very much you can find anybody that would call speeding a sin. Compare that to
sex outside marriage, that is looked at as a sin and is so defined as such
by...............you guess what and where? Now while we are on the subject of
sex out side the marriage, underage sex is called what? It can be a crime in
many states if not all, however is the subject even mentioned in your bible? The
answer is no. In fact it's not mentioned, why? The culture of the day.
>> Consequence: something produced by a cause or necessarily following from a set
>> of conditions
>
> a man made law is a pre-existing condition set up by other men
A consequence is a result both good and bad. You have a consequence wither you
break a law or not. The consequence for proper diet and exercising is good health.
>
>> That's hardly splitting hairs.
>
> you have proved merlin's point.
> this isn't about god, this is about the training other men to conform
> to your faith.
> and when others break the rules of your faith you say god will get
> them.
>
Not at all. I merely indicated what the definition of sin is ( action )
and consequence ( result ) which was arguing your statement "sin = the
consequences of our actions." implying sin is the consequence.
> god don't get people. or jesus would have condemned the guy on the
> left of jesus on cross to hell.
> when jesus did not.
>
>> Have you won while still running a race?
>
> no one race makes you a campion. being a champion comes from a series
> of winning races.
>
Where did I mention a "championship" Your reading more into it that stated. You
also do not understand a "companionships" There is a racing series that can have
a champion with our winning a race. Many winners of a single event are called
the champion of that event as well. Do you know why? The word "champion" simply
means a winner of first prize or first place in competition.
>> Running
>> is the action (sin),
>
> running is not a sin.
>
Way over your head.
>> winning, coming in second or last is the result of running
>> the race (consequence).
>
> coming in not first, is not a value judgement.
Who said anything about judgments? But If you insist, judgments are placed on
where you finish in any events.
> coming in not first is the prize of not quitting.
>
If it's a foot race I.E. running 10 laps, and you walk 5 of those ten laps, you
have in essence quit.
> you are interested in winners and loosers, merlin is not.
You have made more out of what I've said than is even remotely possible. I used
an analogy that I thought even some one like you could understand, and in that
thinking I was wrong, I should have used analogies designed for children or
mentally slow individuals as that it is obvious as simple as the analogies I
used, way over your head.
> god does not give up when at first we don't succeed, god wants us to
> try and try again.
>
Ok.............yea...................
>> Speeding is the action,
>
> better choice. speeding to the hospital or away from a police offer
> chasing you?
>
Speeding is going faster than the posted speed limit.
>> getting caught and getting a ticket is the consequence.
>
> the officer often not give a ticket and escort a car to the hospital,
> often when the female in the care is about to give birth.
>
You are so very simple. Many a ticket has been given for driving to fast even in
route to a hospital. You watch too many movies.
> there are exceptions for every thing you say, yet you give no rooms
> for personal issues.
> you blanketly say all action is sin.
>
No I did not.
>> Not getting caught is also a consequence
>
> when cheating becomes a habit yes.
> when fear becomes the motive, yes.
> when hate is realized as the prise? yes.
>
You actually do not understand what words mean do you? You did at least go to
elementary school?
>> in that you have a feeling of getting
>> away with it,
>
> it is the habit of getting away with something that often trips people
> up.
> not anyone event, the repetition.
>
>> that feeling is the consequence.
>
> now you are talking about fear again.
> do you only worship god cause you are afraid?
> you only worship god so god will not get you?
>
Who said anything about fear, if you actually read the reply you would see the
"feeling" is not fear, try it actually read it........
"Speeding is the action, getting caught and getting a ticket is the consequence.
Not getting caught is also a consequence in that you have a feeling of getting
away with it, that feeling is the consequence.
You ought to try using a dictionary sometime."
>> You ought to try using a dictionary sometime.
>
> as your habit seems to want to lecture others?
> why not share rather than be so rude?
>
It not being rude, it is obvious you do not understand the meanings of words,
and as a consequence do not know how to use them. The other consequence is that
you do not have the ability to comprehend what is being said. You have two
consequences for being partially illiterate. Very shocking in this day and age.
duke
Right, and it's telling God "no" to what he tells us, that we'll decide for
ourselves right v wrong.
The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Ike E 12/10/2009
You better hope not, huh?
Ike
Ike E 12/10/2009
>
> "Ike E 12/10/2009" <xhermanei...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:hfsugl$kd5$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> "Fred Thomas" <fr...@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:hfrqq3$9j2$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>> Sin: an offense against religious or moral law.
>>
>> Wrong.
>>
>> Sin: An offense that does injury to another person and is therefore
>> prohibited.
>
...said Satan.
[snip]
Ike
Ike E 12/10/2009
"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:8545i5tsan3ojsruq...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 02:05:40 -0600, "Ike E 12/10/2009"
> <xhermanei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Fred Thomas" <fr...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>news:hfrqq3$9j2$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>>[snip]
>>
>>> Sin: an offense against religious or moral law.
>>
>>Wrong.
>>
>>Sin: An offense that does injury to another person and is therefore
>>prohibited.
>>
>>And you don't get to define sin--God does.
>
> Right, and it's telling God "no" to what he tells us, that we'll decide
> for
> ourselves right v wrong.
You mean, like Catholics?
Ike
fred thomas
Not at all.
>
> Ike
>
>
fred thomas
Another mythical magical creature that does not exist.
>
> [snip]
>
> Ike
>
>
Ike E 12/10/2009
"fred thomas" <fr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:hfuavc$oba$2...@adenine.netfront.net...
Like I said before, you better hope so, huh?
Ike
Ike E 12/10/2009
"fred thomas" <fr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:hfuasc$oba$1...@adenine.netfront.net...
Precisely at all: As I demonstrated before, you, being absolutely ignorant,
presume to speak against what you don't know from the position of ignorance,
but if you don't know what the Word says, WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE ITS MERITS?
Answer: Nobody.
And that's precisely what you'll be in the end--Nobody.
Enjoy--you chose it.
Ike
Fred Thomas
>
> "fred thomas" <fr...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:hfuasc$oba$1...@adenine.netfront.net...
>> On 12/11/2009 3:35 PM, Ike E 12/10/2009 wrote:
>>> "Fred Thomas"<fr...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>> news:hftgbl$n4l$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>
>>>> "Ike E 12/10/2009"<xhermanei...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:hfsuif$kle$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Fred Thomas"<fr...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:hfrtf4$261$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>
>>>>> [snip]
>>>>>
>>>>>> That of course would be the second part of the discussion. IF a god does
>>>>>> not exist, there can be no transgression of said god's laws. With no
>>>>>> transgression of said gods law sin can not exist, religious laws can not
>>>>>> exist. So the equation sin=consequences can not be factual. There can be
>>>>>> no consequences for something that does not exist.
>>>>>
>>>>> LOL
>>>>>
>>>>> And you be sure to tell God that when you see Him.
>>>> No dange of that.............god has never been seen LOL!!!!
>>>
>>> You better hope not, huh?
>>
>> Not at all.
>
> Precisely at all: As I demonstrated before, you, being absolutely ignorant,
You have only demonstrated that you are a living fossil, and the ignorance is
all yours.
> presume to speak against what you don't know from the position of ignorance,
Tell me..................if this god is all knowing, the creator, magical and
such, why did god create such an imperfect being ( people ), get mad at the fact
the people are so imperfect, decided that it had to send it's "son" to be killed
by the imperfect people so that the imperfect people can be saved. The tales are
just that tales.
> but if you don't know what the Word says, WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE ITS MERITS?
If the "merits" were not so blatantly stupid no "judgment" would be necessary.
>
Fred Thomas
Laughing.......there is no need to hope on the subject. Satan is as fiction as
Bugs Bunny.
> Ike
>
Thommadura
Actually - more so -
Thommadura
Provide a list of all the things about your god that you can prove is
TRUTH in a testable and verifiable way that WE are ignorant about - that
all can confirm regardless of their belief - along with the PROOF(The
bible being a compilation of belief is NOT proof).
Actually - we know EVERYTHING about gods that anyone actually knows -
that is NOTHING
And your lack of a list will prove that one too
IF a god is everything that is said about him - he would have the power
to speak for himself as well as prove himslef
So - WE simply ignore what HUMANS say about gods - and call you to have
your god come forward and confirm your story - it ITS story (Since there
are millions of them - you do not have to be right either)
Until then - dream on
Now comes the celebration of the Saturnalia - at the Winter Solstice -
which is December 25th in the Julian Calendar. IT was celebrated long
before the christ myth was created by humans.
Thommadura
And since there have been over 28 million gods so far named - and over
39,000 different christian sects so far as well - even if there was a
god - your chances of being correct are minuscule as well.
So - you are the deluded one who clings to gods - therefore you are the
one who should HOPE you picked the right god to worship in the right way.
THose of us who do not believe - at least will not be mistaken in that
regard!
duke
<xhermanei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
>news:8545i5tsan3ojsruq...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 02:05:40 -0600, "Ike E 12/10/2009"
>> <xhermanei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Fred Thomas" <fr...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>news:hfrqq3$9j2$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>
>>>[snip]
>>>
>>>> Sin: an offense against religious or moral law.
>>>
>>>Wrong.
>>>
>>>Sin: An offense that does injury to another person and is therefore
>>>prohibited.
>>>
>>>And you don't get to define sin--God does.
>>
>> Right, and it's telling God "no" to what he tells us, that we'll decide
>> for
>> ourselves right v wrong.
>
>You mean, like Catholics?
Oh, we're fully in tune with God's words.
ThomM
> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 14:36:32 -0600, "Ike E 12/10/2009"
>
>
>
>
> >"duke" <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote in message
> >news:8545i5tsan3ojsruq...@4ax.com...
> >> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 02:05:40 -0600, "Ike E 12/10/2009"
>
> >>>"Fred Thomas" <f...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >>>news:hfrqq3$9j2$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> >>>[snip]
>
> >>>> Sin: an offense against religious or moral law.
>
> >>>Wrong.
>
> >>>Sin: An offense that does injury to another person and is therefore
> >>>prohibited.
>
> >>>And you don't get to define sin--God does.
>
> >> Right, and it's telling God "no" to what he tells us, that we'll decide
> >> for
> >> ourselves right v wrong.
>
> >You mean, like Catholics?
>
> Oh, we're fully in tune with God's words.
REALLY - and what exactly can you PROVE to be the words of a god
THe only things we have are those of humans!
Fred Thomas
> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 14:36:32 -0600, "Ike E 12/10/2009"
> <xhermanei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
>>news:8545i5tsan3ojsruq...@4ax.com...
>>> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 02:05:40 -0600, "Ike E 12/10/2009"
>>> <xhermanei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Fred Thomas" <fr...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:hfrqq3$9j2$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>
>>>>[snip]
>>>>
>>>>> Sin: an offense against religious or moral law.
>>>>
>>>>Wrong.
>>>>
>>>>Sin: An offense that does injury to another person and is therefore
>>>>prohibited.
>>>>
>>>>And you don't get to define sin--God does.
>>>
>>> Right, and it's telling God "no" to what he tells us, that we'll decide
>>> for
>>> ourselves right v wrong.
>>
>>You mean, like Catholics?
>
> Oh, we're fully in tune with God's words.
Just like the school kids........my dad is stronger that your dad...........my
brother can beat your brother...........my _________ is better than
your__________, someone needs to grow up.
Ike E 12/10/2009
You better hope so, huh?
>> presume to speak against what you don't know from the position of
>> ignorance,
>
> Tell me..................if this god is all knowing, the creator, magical
> and such, why did god create such an imperfect being ( people ), get mad
> at the fact the people are so imperfect, decided that it had to send it's
> "son" to be killed by the imperfect people so that the imperfect people
> can be saved.
Character development.
> The tales are just that tales.
You better hope so, huh?
>> but if you don't know what the Word says, WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE ITS
>> MERITS?
>
> If the "merits" were not so blatantly stupid no "judgment" would be
> necessary.
You don't even know what the merits are? Who are you to judge?
Ike
Ike E 12/10/2009
You better hope so, huh?
Ike
Ike E 12/10/2009
> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 14:36:32 -0600, "Ike E 12/10/2009"
> <xhermanei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
>>news:8545i5tsan3ojsruq...@4ax.com...
>>> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 02:05:40 -0600, "Ike E 12/10/2009"
>>> <xhermanei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Fred Thomas" <fr...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:hfrqq3$9j2$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>
>>>>[snip]
>>>>
>>>>> Sin: an offense against religious or moral law.
>>>>
>>>>Wrong.
>>>>
>>>>Sin: An offense that does injury to another person and is therefore
>>>>prohibited.
>>>>
>>>>And you don't get to define sin--God does.
>>>
>>> Right, and it's telling God "no" to what he tells us, that we'll decide
>>> for
>>> ourselves right v wrong.
>>
>>You mean, like Catholics?
>
> Oh, we're fully in tune with God's words.
Like a sixth grade orchestra.
Ike
Fred Thomas
That is an interesting part of the writing process, developing the character,
goes from concept, to story board, to dialogue, the evolution is quite
fascinating. All the argueing between the writers on what is the character is
all about, what it will do, what it has done.............sometimes the finished
product is worth reading.
>> The tales are just that tales.
>
> You better hope so, huh?
>
Dont need to hope in tales.
>>> but if you don't know what the Word says, WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE ITS MERITS?
>>
>> If the "merits" were not so blatantly stupid no "judgment" would be
>> necessary.
>
> You don't even know what the merits are? Who are you to judge?
>
The truth is simple, the merits are fiction.
> Ike
>
Ike E 12/10/2009
Not in the story, you moron--in the PEOPLE.
[snippeth]
Ike
Fred Thomas
>goes from concept, to story board, to dialogue, the evolution is quite
>fascinating. All the argueing between the writers on what is the character is
>all about, what it will do, what it has done.............sometimes the finished
>product is worth reading.
That is all you believe in you know a story. A story passed down from one
religion to another.
Merlin
> "Merlin" <merlina...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > On Nov 24, 6:10 am, "Michael Christ" <JesusisL...@Father.com> wrote:
> >> If you say you are in Christ and sin, you are saying Jesus sins.
>
> >> Since Jesus does not sin, you are not in Christ.
>
> >> Michael Christ
micheal this is very important. you can't claim who is and who isn't
in christ.
you can't claim you are sinless either. you can tell us your trails
and tribulations
to be the goodness you see in yourself.
this is the way of the anti christ. judging others as not in christ.
while claiming the false purity of the non natural jesus.
when we have human bodies we do function as humans to maintain that
body.
and that body has all the urges everyone else has.
when we bring our awareness into this body, we can learn to control
the body and mind.
this can take a life time.
did jesus sin? did jesus ever break a promise made to the father?
it appears not. so we break promises to god? you bet.
the christ is like a seed a nut a spark in each living being.
it is an infant inside of us that grow to take over our being a sense.
for that christ was nurtured in jesus, and jesus created the personal
control in jesus life from the ability to access and use the christ
within.
from the holding of temper to the control over temptation.
and this christ grows in us with each success.
that does not mean we suddenly become aware of the christ within.
most christians feel it, and nurture it as do other religions.
>
> > jesus can't sin unless jesus is in human form and jesus is not in
> > human form at the present time, so jesus can't sin at the moment.
>
> > temptation is not a sin, unless one commits to the temptation.
>
> > do human bodies have this 'original sin' in them as so many christians
> > say they do?
what is the nature of original sin? it is the innate nature of the
human body.
the urges, and needs of the body are original sin. not the perfect
indwelling sou.
the need to eat, the desire to procreate, the want of pleasures and
comfort.
these are the basic wants and needs of the human form.
and you call that original sin.
> > then jesus had original sin in jesus while in human form in a human
> > body.
>
> > in love with the living loving gay jesus,
>
> > merlin
>
> Nice to see you appreciate a loving happy Jesus.
jesus told merlin merlin could call jesus gay, as many christians have
made jesus an italian in appearance.
jesus was a simple carpenter rabbi in isreal, that is now worshipped
all over the world.
would not jesus rather everyone do as jesus did? love as jesus loves,
and respect all life?
respect for everyone says, jesus wants us to see jesus through our
eyes and our lives.
and to be the best we can be with what we got in god loves.
>
> In answer to your question, yes.
>
> We are spirit beings, not just flesh and blood.
so act like it and stop judging others and work harder to live a life
that is more like jesus?
stop acting so superior to a brother in christ?
for the anti christ will call himself the christ as you do here.
>
> We are made in the image (spiritual) of God.
and physically. for our bodies represent what organization there is
in the universe.
and from our minds coordination with our souls we can control
ourselves and
live in harmony.
>
> In the spirit is where true reality is.
>
> Michael Christ
you do not show us true reality, you show your ability to judge others
are inferior to you.
Merlin
> > jesus can't sin unless jesus is in human form and jesus is not in
> > human form at the present time, so jesus can't sin at the moment.
>
> ROFL Oh dear Oh dear. What form is 'He' in then "
the question was about carnal knowledge of jesus in 2009.
the answer was that when jesus was in human form
that was always possible, while jesus is spirit at the moment.
jesus is not having sex with anyone.
tho god had sex with his mother in the ledgend. so could jesus
impregnant someone now?
> Chuckles chuckles chuckles
it is important to feel some form of control over own bodies.
to believe that god will sex someone up today, is a major threat
as we are all so sexual in these days.
most of the talk on christnet seem sexually oriented.
>
> > temptation is not a sin, unless one commits to the temptation.
>
> Sin has always been a tool of the clergy, used and adopted to bolster
> membership. It is seized upon with zeal because there is a universal
> distaste for sin - even a thief gets highly agitated if someone breaks
> into his home and steals his loot.
you talk of clergy while we are talking about the individual and how
individuals can manage to control themselves.
tell us how you control yourself and do the values you have help you?
> Sin was around long before man could speak in simple tongue, let alone
> write. Eons later sin was
> hijacked, applied, used, twisted and manipulated by the clergy with more
> force and enthusiasm than any other example of religious dogma.
what are you calling sin? sin is breaking a promise to god, what does
it mean
to you young bob?
>
> Until preachers and their hangers on, like Mr. Merlin, defer from
> manipulating sin as a propagating tool - they too will never be free from
> sin themselves.
who can be free from the needs and desires of their body while still
in their body?
that is different from sin, for sin is breaking a promise to god.
don't get hungup in man made rules, be a nonconformist young bob, and
tell us
about your values outside of any influences of religion, for you have
yet to do this.
all you do is complain about religion while using the coloquy of
religion.
> > in love with the living loving gay jesus,
>
> > merlin
>
alt.bible.prophecy, alt.christnet.christianlife,
alt.christnet.theology, alt.religion.christianity, alt.christnet
> > alt.bible, alt.christnet.bible, alt.christnet, alt.christnet.prayer
alt.bible.prophecy, alt.christnet.christianlife,
alt.christnet.theology, alt.religion.christianity, alt.christnet
Merlin
> Sin: an offense against religious or moral law.
sin is about your relationship with god, sin has nothing to do with
religion.
religion is the interloper as you use it, getting between the
understanding
of the individual and their relationship with god.
cut out the middle men, and go directly to god. and the nature
and your cure for sin will change.
> Consequence: something produced by a cause or necessarily following from a set
> of conditions
that is what you say, that sin is about a set of man made rules.
Merlin
> Since sin as used in this group is an offense against a god - and since
> no god is proven to exist - it is NOT possible to actually sin - since
> no one can actually establish what a god considers to be an offense.
can you not break promises to yourself?
can you not live up to your own expectations?
can you not reach your goals with or with god?
this is the real nature of sin, our relationships with ourself, and
how
we negotiate with ourselves in our lives emotionally, mentally, and
subconciously
and you can do all this with out god hons.
you can live up to your standards, you can create your own art for
living.
>
> A single creator - who created ALL things - all good and ALL evil -
> logically would not consider ANY of his own actions bad - so evil
> cannot be established to be a sin
it can when we don't do as we say we will.
for then we are not trusted by ourselves or others.
and that may be like onto your concept of sin you use here.
Thommadura
> On Dec 10, 5:10 pm, Thommadura <tommad...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>> Since sin as used in this group is an offense against a god - and since
>> no god is proven to exist - it is NOT possible to actually sin - since
>> no one can actually establish what a god considers to be an offense.
>
> can you not break promises to yourself?
> can you not live up to your own expectations?
> can you not reach your goals with or with god?
WE have to - there are NO gods proven to exist
And I note YOU have yet to PROVIDE any proof of yours - even though YOU
claim all sorts of things that have NO basis in fact or truth that you
can PROVE either
>
> this is the real nature of sin,
THere is still NO real nature of sin - since religious sin is an offense
against a god - none of which are proven to exist
SO - YOUR statements are simply something for which you have NO proven
knowledges - ie - they are FAIRY TALES.
Thommadura
> On Dec 10, 4:56 pm, Fred Thomas <f...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> Sin: an offense against religious or moral law.
>
> sin is about your relationship with god, sin has nothing to do with
> religion.
> religion is the interloper as you use it, getting between the
> understanding
> of the individual and their relationship with god.
>
> cut out the middle men, and go directly to god. and the nature
> and your cure for sin will change.
Still no sin - no proven gods
Indeed - stop talking - and let your god appear and talk for himself
OF course - that NEVER happenes.!
And YOU are NOT a god - so why make claims
Merlin
> There is no question any rules or laws are man made, as that deity's so far have
> been shown to no exist.
god is a personal experience, that does not translate between people.
we each have our own personal experience.
what you are saying is god does not exist to fred.
merlin does not doubt people who make such claims
not does merlin have to.
> However words bring implications, sin implies a rule or
> law giving by a "higher authority"
it is a promise broken not a law broken.
you are using the tradition christian translation of the word sin, not
the original use of the word in greek.
> a definite religious implication.
not at all. we often make new years resolutions and can be considered
to have missed the mark (= sin) when we break them through out the
coming year.
> I doubt
> very much you can find anybody that would call speeding a sin.
depends on the nature of the speeding, when one promised to follow the
rules to get a license.
> Compare that to
> sex outside marriage, that is looked at as a sin and is so defined as such
> by...............you guess what and where?
it is illegal for merlin to get married in most the usa.
> Now while we are on the subject of
> sex out side the marriage, underage sex is called what? It can be a crime in
> many states if not all, however is the subject even mentioned in your bible? The
> answer is no. In fact it's not mentioned, why? The culture of the day.
it is illegal in all the state in the usa. tho legal age may differ.
> >> Consequence: something produced by a cause or necessarily following from a set
> >> of conditions
>
> > a man made law is a pre-existing condition set up by other men
>
> A consequence is a result both good and bad. You have a consequence wither you
> break a law or not. The consequence for proper diet and exercising is good health.
that is as close as you get to describing the concept of sin yes, and
karma.
>
> Where did I mention a "championship"
it goes with the concept of winning a race.
> Your reading more into it that stated.
so merlin has sinned in your eyes?
> You
> also do not understand a "companionships"
so merlin has sinned in your eyes?
> > running is not a sin.
>
> Way over your head.
you have made merlin's responses a sin in your eyes.
> >> winning, coming in second or last is the result of running
> >> the race (consequence).
>
> > coming in not first, is not a value judgement.
>
> Who said anything about judgments? But If you insist, judgments are placed on
> where you finish in any events.
then why did you bring winning and loosing up?
loosing is a value judgement. when no one looses that runs a race.
> > coming in not first is the prize of not quitting.
>
> If it's a foot race I.E. running 10 laps, and you walk 5 of those ten laps, you
> have in essence quit.
you do not allow people to do the best they can do at the moment?
so those that do not run as you define run have sinned in your eyes.
>
> > you are interested in winners and loosers, merlin is not.
>
> You have made more out of what I've said than is even remotely possible.
then why did you bring it up?
you just typing to make words?
> I used
> an analogy
and it isn't successful tho you have not sinned in merlin's eyes.
for nothing greater was anticipated.
> that I thought even some one like you could understand, and in that
> thinking I was wrong,
so merlin has sinned in your eyes fred?
> I should have used analogies
don't use analogies use real stories about your life.
> designed for children or
> mentally slow individuals as that it is obvious as simple as the analogies I
> used, way over your head.
all minds speak their own language it is a matter of competing with
others,
it is colloquial language of each mind that learns to think by
adapting to the brain each of us have.
some people will never learn to speak french.
> > god does not give up when at first we don't succeed, god wants us to
> > try and try again.
>
> Ok.............yea...................
>
> >> Speeding is the action,
>
> > better choice. speeding to the hospital or away from a police offer
> > chasing you?
>
> Speeding is going faster than the posted speed limit.
please fill in the blanks. speeding is not always wrong no matter the
sign.
we have personal judgement as well.
> You are so very simple.
so merlin has sinned in fred's eyes.
> Many a ticket has been given for driving to fast even in
> route to a hospital. You watch too many movies.
don't own a car, don't want to own a car. and do not understand those
that own cars.
>
> > there are exceptions for every thing you say, yet you give no rooms
> > for personal issues.
> > you blanketly say all action is sin.
>
> No I did not.
you just said speeding was a sin when their are signs that limit
speed.
and that one can get a ticket for it.
>
> >> Not getting caught is also a consequence
>
> > when cheating becomes a habit yes.
> > when fear becomes the motive, yes.
> > when hate is realized as the prise? yes.
>
> You actually do not understand what words mean do you?
so merlin has sinned in fred's eyes.
> You did at least go to
> elementary school?
when one is not caught cheating or stealing or driving to fast more
than once it is a habit born out of not being caught.
and that habit leads to constant breaking of the laws/rules/goals in
the individual.
most people caught turn style jumping in the metro have a record and
some are arrested not for jumping the turn style (usually a ticket)
rather for the existing legal actions against them.
> >> that feeling is the consequence.
>
> > now you are talking about fear again.
> > do you only worship god cause you are afraid?
> > you only worship god so god will not get you?
>
> Who said anything about fear,
fred you are saying that the only reason people follow the laws is out
of fear of being caught.
merlin says people follow rules cause they lead to a better community
and standards that
promote public safety.
> if you actually read the reply you would see the
> "feeling" is not fear, try it actually read it........
so merlin has sinned in fred's eyes.
>
> "Speeding is the action, getting caught and getting a ticket is the consequence.
there is more to the story. the motives of the person breaking law
are important.
> Not getting caught is also a consequence in that you have a feeling of getting
> away with it, that feeling is the consequence.
in some cases not all, and that feeling goes against the greater good
of community safety.
> You ought to try using a dictionary sometime."
for something fred says on christnet?
> >> You ought to try using a dictionary sometime.
>
> > as your habit seems to want to lecture others?
> > why not share rather than be so rude?
>
> It not being rude,
look how many times you have been disappointed in merlin in this
thread.
this has nothing to do with merlin. this is fred saying merlin must
speak to fred
as fred wants and demands merlin speak to fred. there is no room for
merlin to be merlin
as fred is being fred.
> it is obvious you do not understand the meanings of words,
reread some of what you wrote, they are short cuts of much larger
ideas.
and what you leave out is as important as the narrow focus you believe
you
are creating so successfully, when you are not in merlin eyes. tho you
have not sinned
in merlin's eyes fred is just being fred.
> and as a consequence do not know how to use them. The other consequence is that
> you do not have the ability to comprehend what is being said. You have two
> consequences for being partially illiterate. Very shocking in this day and age.
merlin has sinned according to fred's rules.
in love with the living loving gay jesus who never speed in a car in
jesus life,
merlin
Fred Thomas
"Merlin" <merli...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:481c88bd-61dc-4ec5...@g25g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 10, 5:10 pm, Thommadura <tommad...@optonline.net> wrote:
> Since sin as used in this group is an offense against a god - and since
> no god is proven to exist - it is NOT possible to actually sin - since
> no one can actually establish what a god considers to be an offense.
can you not break promises to yourself?
can you not live up to your own expectations?
can you not reach your goals with or with god?
this is the real nature of sin, our relationships with ourself, and
how
we negotiate with ourselves in our lives emotionally, mentally, and
subconciously
and you can do all this with out god hons.
you can live up to your standards, you can create your own art for
living.
*************************************************************
you seem to miss the point...........sin is a transgression against a
deity............no deity no sin.
********************************************************************
Fred Thomas
On Dec 11, 9:01 am, fred thomas <f...@aol.com> wrote:
> There is no question any rules or laws are man made, as that deity's so far
> have
> been shown to no exist.
god is a personal experience, that does not translate between people.
we each have our own personal experience.
what you are saying is god does not exist to fred.
merlin does not doubt people who make such claims
not does merlin have to.
************************************************************************
"god is a personal experience" means nothing.
***************************************************************************
> However words bring implications, sin implies a rule or
> law giving by a "higher authority"
it is a promise broken not a law broken.
you are using the tradition christian translation of the word sin, not
the original use of the word in greek.
****************************************************************************
You missed the mark............hint.....hint............Hamartia ( ??????? )
*****************************************************************************
> a definite religious implication.
not at all. we often make new years resolutions and can be considered
to have missed the mark (= sin) when we break them through out the
coming year.
****************************************************************************
no deity no sin, however I do not "celebrate" the new year, I do not make
resolutions.
***************************************************************************
> I doubt
> very much you can find anybody that would call speeding a sin.
depends on the nature of the speeding, when one promised to follow the
rules to get a license.
*************************************************************
Speeding is speeding, no getting around it, you will still not hear anybody say
it's a sin.
**********************************************************
> Compare that to
> sex outside marriage, that is looked at as a sin and is so defined as such
> by...............you guess what and where
it is illegal for merlin to get married in most the usa.
***************************************************************
That I'm sorry for you, not that I am homosexual, I believe that just as two
people of different sex have the right to marry I believe two people of the same
sex should also have that right. The reason that it's defeated so much in the
states IS because it IS A RELIGIOUS issue in the minds of those against it. That
being said..............the bible where your god is talked about, deems you an
abomination, your sexual orientation would be called a sin. Now, with out
religious books and religious organizations like the bible and the RCC it
would not be a religious issue but a personal and civil issue. The word "sin"
would be excluded from the language. As to what you were responding too, where
you went off tangent, the bible and religions regard sex out side of marriage as
a sin, if it were not for that it would not be looked at as "sin". No matter how
you slice it, the word "sin" carries a religious connotation and it is against a
religious or god law, not a civil law.
********************************************
> Now while we are on the subject of
> sex out side the marriage, underage sex is called what? It can be a crime in
> many states if not all, however is the subject even mentioned in your bible?
> The
> answer is no. In fact it's not mentioned, why? The culture of the day.
********************************************************************
it is illegal in all the state in the usa. tho legal age may differ.
***********************************************************************
First you need to define " underage sex", we'll then continue.
*************************************************
> >> Consequence: something produced by a cause or necessarily following from a
> >> set
> >> of conditions
>
> > a man made law is a pre-existing condition set up by other men
>
> A consequence is a result both good and bad. You have a consequence wither you
> break a law or not. The consequence for proper diet and exercising is good
> health.
that is as close as you get to describing the concept of sin yes, and
karma.
****************************************************
No that is the result of an action, which is what a "sin" is. Consequence is the
result
************************************************
>
> Where did I mention a "championship"
it goes with the concept of winning a race.
> Your reading more into it that stated.
so merlin has sinned in your eyes?
********************************************
Not at all.
**********************************************
> You
> also do not understand a "companionships"
so merlin has sinned in your eyes?
*******************************************
Not at all.
*************************************
> > running is not a sin.
>
> Way over your head.
you have made merlin's responses a sin in your eyes.
*******************************************
Not at all.
*****************************************
> >> winning, coming in second or last is the result of running
> >> the race (consequence).
>
> > coming in not first, is not a value judgement.
>
> Who said anything about judgments? But If you insist, judgments are placed on
> where you finish in any events.
then why did you bring winning and loosing up?
loosing is a value judgement. when no one looses that runs a race.
********************************************************
You lost what ever position you were intending to achieve if you came in even
one position less.
*********************************************************************.
> > coming in not first is the prize of not quitting.
>
> If it's a foot race I.E. running 10 laps, and you walk 5 of those ten laps,
> you
> have in essence quit.
you do not allow people to do the best they can do at the moment?
so those that do not run as you define run have sinned in your eyes.
*********************************************************************
No they just failed, starting at preparation.
*****************************************************************
>
> > you are interested in winners and loosers, merlin is not.
>
> You have made more out of what I've said than is even remotely possible.
then why did you bring it up?
you just typing to make words?
**********************************************************
Still way over your head.
***************************************************
> I used
> an analogy
and it isn't successful tho you have not sinned in merlin's eyes.
for nothing greater was anticipated.
*****************************************************
I do not sin, neither do you. It's not successful because A) you are
intentionally not allowing it B) really are............well slow.
**********************************************
> that I thought even some one like you could understand, and in that
> thinking I was wrong,
so merlin has sinned in your eyes fred?
Nope.
> I should have used analogies
don't use analogies use real stories about your life.
Why?
> designed for children or
> mentally slow individuals as that it is obvious as simple as the analogies I
> used, way over your head.
all minds speak their own language it is a matter of competing with
others,
it is colloquial language of each mind that learns to think by
adapting to the brain each of us have.
some people will never learn to speak french.
******************************************
which is a choice, your point? Many people will never learn to drive a car, fly
an airplane.
*****************************************
> > god does not give up when at first we don't succeed, god wants us to
> > try and try again.
>
> Ok.............yea...................
>
> >> Speeding is the action,
>
> > better choice. speeding to the hospital or away from a police offer
> > chasing you?
>
> Speeding is going faster than the posted speed limit.
please fill in the blanks. speeding is not always wrong no matter the
sign.
we have personal judgement as well.
****************************************************
Missed the context.....
************************************************
> You are so very simple.
so merlin has sinned in fred's eyes.
********************************
missed the context
******************************
> Many a ticket has been given for driving to fast even in
> route to a hospital. You watch too many movies.
don't own a car, don't want to own a car. and do not understand those
that own cars.
******************************************
Why don't you try to understand? In some places owning a vehicle is a need and
not a luxury
******************************************
>
> > there are exceptions for every thing you say, yet you give no rooms
> > for personal issues.
> > you blanketly say all action is sin.
>
> No I did not.
you just said speeding was a sin when their are signs that limit
speed.
and that one can get a ticket for it.
**************************************
I said speeding IS NOT A SIN, it is clear now your intent is just to argue, you
have contradicted your self.
******************************************
<snip looks to me to be redundant>
duke
Why do I have to prove anything? The bible is the word of God revealing God's
plans for mankind and the salvation of his soul.
Roman Catholics read the bible and say "yes". Protest_ants read the bible and
decide for themselves what they'll follow and not follow.
duke
And some Christians like Catholics heed the bible and some Christians like
protest_ants decide for themselves what they believe in the bible.
duke
<xhermanei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
>news:e3l5i5p5kvnj0q1jt...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 14:36:32 -0600, "Ike E 12/10/2009"
>> <xhermanei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
>>>news:8545i5tsan3ojsruq...@4ax.com...
>>>> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 02:05:40 -0600, "Ike E 12/10/2009"
>>>> <xhermanei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Fred Thomas" <fr...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>>>news:hfrqq3$9j2$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>
>>>>>[snip]
>>>>>
>>>>>> Sin: an offense against religious or moral law.
>>>>>
>>>>>Wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>>Sin: An offense that does injury to another person and is therefore
>>>>>prohibited.
>>>>>
>>>>>And you don't get to define sin--God does.
>>>>
>>>> Right, and it's telling God "no" to what he tells us, that we'll decide
>>>> for
>>>> ourselves right v wrong.
>>>
>>>You mean, like Catholics?
>>
>> Oh, we're fully in tune with God's words.
>
>Like a sixth grade orchestra.
That puts us 7 levels above you, herman.
Thommadura
YOu can't so - there is no point to your statement anyway
If you want to be in tune with a god -= shut up and let your god speak
All we hear is YOU - and YOU are not a god - nor do you represent a god.
Thommadura
Sorry - but ALL christians decide what the bible means for themselves -
there is NO proven single meaning for anyone to heed -= because it is
NOT proven to be anything but PARABLE - stories with a moral message.
Since the bible was compiled by Catholics - one would assume that their
opinion is the valid one = but since NONE of it can be proven to be TRUE
- then everyone can interpret.
I note YOU already have PROVEN you decide what to believe - in stating a
DIFFERENT time span for creation than is determined from the bible
Fred Thomas
Catholics do the same.
Fred Thomas
Merlin
> can you not break promises to yourself?
> can you not live up to your own expectations?
> can you not reach your goals with or with god?
>
> this is the real nature of sin, our relationships with ourself, and
> how
> we negotiate with ourselves in our lives emotionally, mentally, and
> subconciously
> and you can do all this with out god hons.
> you can live up to your standards, you can create your own art for
> living.
> *************************************************************
> you seem to miss the point...........sin is a transgression against a
> deity............no deity no sin.
you don't seem to understand that when one does not have a diety,
that their highest standards are their own, and when people
break their standards they are sinning against themselves and their
goals.
a man can cheat in a man's own mind where there is a god or not.
a man can do terrible or good things according to that man's standards
and living.
> > A single creator - who created ALL things - all good and ALL evil -
> > logically would not consider ANY of his own actions bad - so evil
> > cannot be established to be a sin
yet, when we do not eat we starve, when we break a law we may be
arrested.
we are not just talking about how god sees us, as you have no god.
so we have broadened the topic to man's rules also.
> it can when we don't do as we say we will.
we don't have to be involved yes, though in human form we tend to
gravitate towards each other.
and then community asks us to tell each other about our experiences.
and some have found god and some have not.
> for then we are not trusted by ourselves or others.
> and that may be like onto your concept of sin you use here.
when we break fred's rules fred chastizes us as other men say god
chastizes people.
when we love, we can open up more than just the logical and seeming
real world of earth,
and find our inner witness.
Merlin
> ************************************************************************
>
> "god is a personal experience" means nothing.
>
> ***************************************************************************
to you fred. that is accepted as your answer.
> > However words bring implications, sin implies a rule or
> > law giving by a "higher authority"
who wrote this?
> it is a promise broken not a law broken.
there are no laws for an anarchist.
> *************************************************************************** *
> You missed the mark............hint.....hint............Hamartia ( ??????? )
>
> *************************************************************************** **
it does not matter what you think or believe of merlin.
we all have our own path in life.
> *************************************************************************** *
> no deity no sin, however I do not "celebrate" the new year, I do not make
> resolutions.
>
> ***************************************************************************
it is about our goals you can leave god out of you dicussion all you
want.
you seem to want to shock rather than discuss these concepts.
your lack of deity is accepted, now merlin asks so what do you want
out of life anyways.
> *************************************************************
> Speeding is speeding, no getting around it, you will still not hear anybody say
> it's a sin.
>
> **********************************************************
this is your conundrum
> ***************************************************************
> That I'm sorry for you,
merlin is not sorry for you.
> not that I am homosexual, I believe that just as two
> people of different sex have the right to marry I believe two people of the same
> sex should also have that right.
merlin says the larger is picture, is respect, the laws will follow
when christians start to respect others.
and see others are living and in life.
> The reason that it's defeated so much in the
> states IS because it IS A RELIGIOUS issue in the minds of those against it.
actually is a lack of respect. and fear of god that includes the
fertility goddess concepts
of the farming community of 2000 years ago.
> That
> being said..............the bible where your god is talked about, deems you an
> abomination, your sexual orientation would be called a sin.
yes the man made scriptures conform to the views of the people that
lived 2000 years ago.
we all could grow up from those days as science and technology have
and learn something new about life and respect for life.
> Now, with out
> religious books and religious organizations like the bible and the RCC it
> would not be a religious issue but a personal and civil issue.
don't blame those books and concepts. they are maps, and with all
maps, people only understand what they have been taught to see. when
they know more, they will see the greater keys in the map called the
bible and not dwell on sexuality all the time.
> The word "sin"
> would be excluded from the language.
merlin is not afraid of sin. nor of god.
we can learn this by watching what jesus does through out jesus life.
the love no matter what happens to us. etc.
> As to what you were responding too, where
> you went off tangent, the bible and religions regard sex out side of marriage as
> a sin, if it were not for that it would not be looked at as "sin". No matter how
> you slice it, the word "sin" carries a religious connotation and it is against a
> religious or god law, not a civil law.
when one can marry and does, these rules apply, when marriage is
outlawed one is able to create rules outside of those previous rules,
cause they do not apply to those considered lawless by those that
enforce 2000 year old laws.
> ********************************************
> ***********************************************************************
> First you need to define " underage sex", we'll then continue.
> *************************************************
no we don't. unless this is a topic that interest you.
> ****************************************************
> No that is the result of an action, which is what a "sin" is. Consequence is the
> result
> ************************************************
consequences are the results of sin.
> ********************************************************
> You lost what ever position you were intending to achieve if you came in even
> one position less.
>
> *********************************************************************.
not trying to complete a test.
> ******************************************
> Why don't you try to understand? In some places owning a vehicle is a need and
> not a luxury
> ******************************************
that is because the community will not provide public transport.
we can take the bus in many places or just walk or bike.
> **************************************
> I said speeding IS NOT A SIN, it is clear now your intent is just to argue, you
> have contradicted your self.
> ******************************************
so merlin is punished for merlin's sins against fred.
such is the nature of religion in 2009.
in love with the living loving gay jesus,
merlin
Fred Thomas
On Dec 13, 10:22 am, "Fred Thomas" <f...@aol.com> wrote:
> can you not break promises to yourself?
> can you not live up to your own expectations?
> can you not reach your goals with or with god?
>
> this is the real nature of sin, our relationships with ourself, and
> how
> we negotiate with ourselves in our lives emotionally, mentally, and
> subconciously
> and you can do all this with out god hons.
> you can live up to your standards, you can create your own art for
> living.
> *************************************************************
> you seem to miss the point...........sin is a transgression against a
> deity............no deity no sin.
you don't seem to understand that when one does not have a diety,
that their highest standards are their own, and when people
break their standards they are sinning against themselves and their
goals.
a man can cheat in a man's own mind where there is a god or not.
a man can do terrible or good things according to that man's standards
and living.
**************************************************************
Which because the meaning of the word "sin" has evolved to mean a transgression
to a deity's laws..........a person can not "sin" against oneself.
Very much like the word "gay" has evolved to mean what? It does not mean happy
now does it? No it means a homosexual person, something that someone who is not
homosexual would want to be called. The word "pagan" evolved from the meaning of
country dweller too some one who practices religions other than one of the 28000
different Christian religions.
******************************************************************
> > A single creator - who created ALL things - all good and ALL evil -
> > logically would not consider ANY of his own actions bad - so evil
> > cannot be established to be a sin
yet, when we do not eat we starve, when we break a law we may be
arrested.
we are not just talking about how god sees us, as you have no god.
so we have broadened the topic to man's rules also.
> it can when we don't do as we say we will.
we don't have to be involved yes, though in human form we tend to
gravitate towards each other.
and then community asks us to tell each other about our experiences.
and some have found god and some have not.
> for then we are not trusted by ourselves or others.
> and that may be like onto your concept of sin you use here.
when we break fred's rules fred chastizes us as other men say god
chastizes people.
******************************************************************
You break my rules in my house, you may be chastised, I may over look it. It's
still not a sin.
*****************************************************************
when we love, we can open up more than just the logical and seeming
real world of earth,
and find our inner witness.
in love with the living loving gay jesus,
***********************************************************
gay or not, Jesus is most likey a myth, at best a legend.
*************************************************************
merlin
fred thomas
> On Dec 13, 10:59 am, "Fred Thomas"<f...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> ************************************************************************
>>
>> "god is a personal experience" means nothing.
>>
>> ***************************************************************************
>
> to you fred. that is accepted as your answer.
To anybody it's ambiguous.
>
>>> However words bring implications, sin implies a rule or
>>> law giving by a "higher authority"
>
> who wrote this?
>
>> it is a promise broken not a law broken.
>
> there are no laws for an anarchist.
>
Small segment of society.
>> *************************************************************************** *
>> You missed the mark............hint.....hint............Hamartia ( ??????? )
>>
>> *************************************************************************** **
>
> it does not matter what you think or believe of merlin.
> we all have our own path in life.
>
>> *************************************************************************** *
>> no deity no sin, however I do not "celebrate" the new year, I do not make
>> resolutions.
>>
>> ***************************************************************************
>
> it is about our goals you can leave god out of you dicussion all you
> want.
> you seem to want to shock rather than discuss these concepts.
You do not understand, I do not celebrate new year, that is a fact, it's not
meant to shock.
> your lack of deity is accepted, now merlin asks so what do you want
> out of life anyways.
>
Same thing anybody else would want. That of course depends on where one sits on
society's ladder.
>> *************************************************************
>> Speeding is speeding, no getting around it, you will still not hear anybody say
>> it's a sin.
>>
>> **********************************************************
>
> this is your conundrum
I fail to see how it's a difficult concept. Words evolve just as animals in
nature. Gay does not mean today what it meant 100 years ago. Same for the word
pagan.
>
>> ***************************************************************
>> That I'm sorry for you,
>
> merlin is not sorry for you.
>
>> not that I am homosexual, I believe that just as two
>> people of different sex have the right to marry I believe two people of the same
>> sex should also have that right.
>
> merlin says the larger is picture, is respect, the laws will follow
> when christians start to respect others.
> and see others are living and in life.
>
You are foolish to think religion and the teachings that come along with it will
ever evolve to that.
>> The reason that it's defeated so much in the
>> states IS because it IS A RELIGIOUS issue in the minds of those against it.
>
> actually is a lack of respect. and fear of god that includes the
> fertility goddess concepts
> of the farming community of 2000 years ago.
>
It is a religious issue. Poles and studies of why people vote the way they do
support the conclusion.
>> That
>> being said..............the bible where your god is talked about, deems you an
>> abomination, your sexual orientation would be called a sin.
>
> yes the man made scriptures conform to the views of the people that
> lived 2000 years ago.
>
All religious text conform to what the beliefs of the writes no matter when 2
years ago or 10000 years ago.
> we all could grow up from those days as science and technology have
> and learn something new about life and respect for life.
>
>> Now, with out
>> religious books and religious organizations like the bible and the RCC it
>> would not be a religious issue but a personal and civil issue.
>
> don't blame those books and concepts. they are maps, and with all
> maps, people only understand what they have been taught to see. when
> they know more, they will see the greater keys in the map called the
> bible and not dwell on sexuality all the time.
>
I don't blame the book or texts for anything, they are just tools for the
organizations that rule.
>> The word "sin"
>> would be excluded from the language.
>
> merlin is not afraid of sin. nor of god.
You shouldn't be, they don't exist.
> we can learn this by watching what jesus does through out jesus life.
> the love no matter what happens to us. etc.
>
Jesus is part of the deity thing, and not the only one to be born of a virgin
mother, have a short ministry, die a horrible death, come back to
life............in other words at that period of time a real common myth
>> As to what you were responding too, where
>> you went off tangent, the bible and religions regard sex out side of marriage as
>> a sin, if it were not for that it would not be looked at as "sin". No matter how
>> you slice it, the word "sin" carries a religious connotation and it is against a
>> religious or god law, not a civil law.
>
> when one can marry and does, these rules apply, when marriage is
> outlawed one is able to create rules outside of those previous rules,
> cause they do not apply to those considered lawless by those that
> enforce 2000 year old laws.
>
>> ********************************************
>
>> ***********************************************************************
>> First you need to define " underage sex", we'll then continue.
>> *************************************************
>
> no we don't. unless this is a topic that interest you.
>
being that you made a response to the topic, you do.
>
>> ****************************************************
>> No that is the result of an action, which is what a "sin" is. Consequence is the
>> result
>> ************************************************
>
> consequences are the results of sin.
There, now was that so hard? consequences are the results of actions. Sin is an
action.
>
>> ********************************************************
>> You lost what ever position you were intending to achieve if you came in even
>> one position less.
>>
>> *********************************************************************.
>
> not trying to complete a test.
A race or competition of any kind is a test.
>
>> ******************************************
>> Why don't you try to understand? In some places owning a vehicle is a need and
>> not a luxury
>> ******************************************
>
> that is because the community will not provide public transport.
Many do not, that makes having a vehicle a need.
>
> we can take the bus in many places or just walk or bike.
Only if there is a bus route locally, a bike is only good in certain types of
weather, and is not very good at anything more than a single person vehicle.
It's laughable to use a bicycle in what I do.
>
>> **************************************
>> I said speeding IS NOT A SIN, it is clear now your intent is just to argue, you
>> have contradicted your self.
>> ******************************************
>
> so merlin is punished for merlin's sins against fred.
>
No you were corrected. You did not sin.
Merlin
> > there are no laws for an anarchist.
>
> Small segment of society.
fred is not an anarchist?
tell us what form of the rules you follow then.
cause you are not suggesting you are part of any community.
> You do not understand,
then tell us about you, these analogies are not being understood.
> I do not celebrate new year, that is a fact, it's not
> meant to shock.
so you are an anarchist? what community do you subscribe to.
when we make promises to ourselves and do not gain those goals.
that is a sin is it not? in the original greek sense of missing our
own mark.
> > your lack of deity is accepted, now merlin asks so what do you want
> > out of life anyways.
>
> Same thing anybody else would want. That of course depends on where one sits on
> society's ladder.
then you want a religion that satisfies you? your answers are not
clear at all.
why defer, when given the opportunity to create a new universe in your
name.
> I fail to see how it's a difficult concept.
you invented the story, and refuse to discuss it in any way that
merlin can respond. so it is on you to resolve your question.
> Words evolve just as animals in
> nature. Gay does not mean today what it meant 100 years ago. Same for the word
> pagan.
neither are about your sense of government over your nature.
you are not revealing fred, you are side stepping what how you want to
see your world
for these non important distinctions.
> >> That I'm sorry for you,
>
> > merlin is not sorry for you.
>
> > and see others are living and in life.
>
> You are foolish to think religion and the teachings that come along with it will
> ever evolve to that.
merlin is not talking about standardized religion, merlin is talking
about a personal and abiding relationship with god. one that survives
all sorts of tribulations and celebrations.
> It is a religious issue.
because you want to complain about religion, you are limiting the
conversation to religion.
as you have no religions what are your values and how to do you follow
what you believe in when you fail and when you succeed?
> Poles and studies of why people vote the way they do
> support the conclusion.
it isn't important in this discussion we have already agreed you are
not part of religion and have no god. while merlin is saying merlin
has a personal relationship with god. so merlin asks what are you
values and how do you create community? how do you create law and
order and stability in your godless world.
> All religious text conform to what the beliefs of the writes no matter when 2
> years ago or 10000 years ago.
merlin historical religion goes back 5200 years to krishna.
yet this is not important to you, and merlin will not discuss this,
and simple wants
to know how you create a sense of family without your own relationship
with god.
> I don't blame the book or texts for anything, they are just tools for the
> organizations that rule.
you blame the books and the religions of the world constantly.
it doesn't matter, merlin wants you to move away from rebellion
and towards discussing what you want to see for this world and
yourself.
> > merlin is not afraid of sin. nor of god.
>
> You shouldn't be, they don't exist.
so what. what have you replaced god with in your life?
> Jesus is part of the deity thing,
not in merlin's life. jesus has never asked merlin to worship jesus,
no god merlin has met has asked merlin to worship that god. there are
protocols that are involved in any system.
> and not the only one to be born of a virgin
> mother,
hercules was born of a virgin mother also. it is the language of the
ancient religions. hercules and jesus were of the royal lignage and
outcasts that found their way with the father god's help.
> have a short ministry, die a horrible death, come back to
> life............in other words at that period of time a real common myth
this is the nature of the earth, the tree is cut down and grow again,
the main is cut down and lives again. the world constantly reinvents
itself.
>
>
>
>
>
> > no we don't. unless this is a topic that interest you.
>
> being that you made a response to the topic, you do.
not at all, it is a ruse used by many to defame all homosexuals.
you are randomly picking topics and then blaming them on the person
chatting you.
tell us what concerns you. tell us what is important to you.
you can criticize all day, that does not reveal anything about
yourself.
> > consequences are the results of sin.
>
> There, now was that so hard? consequences are the results of actions. Sin is an
> action.
who said it wasn't? inaction is an action as well.
> not trying to complete a test.
>
> A race or competition of any kind is a test.
then you are wasting both our energy and time.
for you are daudling and not carrying your weight in this
conversation.
there are points to be made, you are obviscating your own reality with
non real examples.
>
> > that is because the community will not provide public transport.
>
> Many do not, that makes having a vehicle a need.
that makes that community a problem for the poor.
that suggests that community has not made room for everyone.
public transportation is the best when designed the for those it
serves.
> > we can take the bus in many places or just walk or bike.
>
> Only if there is a bus route locally, a bike is only good in certain types of
> weather, and is not very good at anything more than a single person vehicle.
> It's laughable to use a bicycle in what I do.
so you only see a gas guzzle car as your local solution?
back in the day people hitched to find each other or simple walked
miles.
now everyone needs a car to go to the store around the block or down
the lane?
> > so merlin is punished for merlin's sins against fred.
>
> No you were corrected. You did not sin.
same thing. cause fred will never be happy with any response.
fred thomas
> On Dec 13, 5:44 pm, fred thomas<f...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>> there are no laws for an anarchist.
>>
>> Small segment of society.
>
> fred is not an anarchist?
> tell us what form of the rules you follow then.
> cause you are not suggesting you are part of any community.
>
Where Have I suggested such?
>
>> You do not understand,
>
> then tell us about you, these analogies are not being understood.
Please go first.
>
>> I do not celebrate new year, that is a fact, it's not
>> meant to shock.
>
> so you are an anarchist? what community do you subscribe to.
What does not celebrating new years have anything to do with anarchy?
>
> when we make promises to ourselves and do not gain those goals.
> that is a sin is it not?
No.
> in the original greek sense of missing our
> own mark.
>
Evolution of language........remember? How long has gay meant homosexual?
>>> your lack of deity is accepted, now merlin asks so what do you want
>>> out of life anyways.
>>
>> Same thing anybody else would want. That of course depends on where one sits on
>> society's ladder.
>
> then you want a religion that satisfies you?
Why would I want a religion?
> your answers are not
> clear at all.
Much more clear than yours.
> why defer, when given the opportunity to create a new universe in your
> name.
>
LOL!
>> I fail to see how it's a difficult concept.
>
> you invented the story, and refuse to discuss it in any way that
> merlin can respond. so it is on you to resolve your question.
>
You have been given more than ample opportunity.
So why do you refer to you in the third person?
>> Words evolve just as animals in
>> nature. Gay does not mean today what it meant 100 years ago. Same for the word
>> pagan.
>
> neither are about your sense of government over your nature.
> you are not revealing fred, you are side stepping what how you want to
> see your world
> for these non important distinctions.
Hmmmmmmmm..........changing topics again.
>
>>>> That I'm sorry for you,
>>
> merlin is not sorry for you.
>
I never said I was sorry for you.
>>> and see others are living and in life.
>>
>> You are foolish to think religion and the teachings that come along with it will
>> ever evolve to that.
>
> merlin is not talking about standardized religion, merlin is talking
> about a personal and abiding relationship with god. one that survives
> all sorts of tribulations and celebrations.
>
Does not sound much like a god then. Tell me about this god.
>> It is a religious issue.
>
> because you want to complain about religion, you are limiting the
> conversation to religion.
I'm not complaining about religion, I'm exposing it's influence on civilization.
> as you have no religions what are your values and how to do you follow
> what you believe in when you fail and when you succeed?
>
Ahhh the old you cant not be moral with out a deity to tell you how to be moral
game. Well my friend, people made gods, people made religions, people made morals.
>> Poles and studies of why people vote the way they do
>> support the conclusion.
>
> it isn't important in this discussion we have already agreed you are
> not part of religion and have no god. while merlin is saying merlin
> has a personal relationship with god. so merlin asks what are you
> values and how do you create community? how do you create law and
> order and stability in your godless world.
>
Merlin has taken the meaning out of context, and is now going in a different
direction.
What do you mean values? My possessions? What is the personal relation with god?
How do you have a personal relationship with something you can not see? Does
your god create laws? Does your god create life? Does your god heal? Does your
god provide things?
>> All religious text conform to what the beliefs of the writes no matter when 2
>> years ago or 10000 years ago.
>
> merlin historical religion goes back 5200 years to krishna.
Hmmmm Egyptian religions goes back to 2400-2300 BCE.
> yet this is not important to you, and merlin will not discuss this,
> and simple wants
Religious history is important.
> to know how you create a sense of family without your own relationship
> with god.
>
By working at it.
>
>> I don't blame the book or texts for anything, they are just tools for the
>> organizations that rule.
>
> you blame the books and the religions of the world constantly.
Blame what?
> it doesn't matter, merlin wants you to move away from rebellion
Rebellion how? do you want to talk about it?
> and towards discussing what you want to see for this world and
> yourself.
>
What do you what to discuss?
>>> merlin is not afraid of sin. nor of god.
>>
>> You shouldn't be, they don't exist.
>
> so what. what have you replaced god with in your life?
Nothing, there is nothing to replace.
>
>> Jesus is part of the deity thing,
>
> not in merlin's life. jesus has never asked merlin to worship jesus,
> no god merlin has met has asked merlin to worship that god. there are
> protocols that are involved in any system.
>
No deity ever asks to be worshiped, it's expected and demanded. However, you
must not be talking about the Jesus of the Christian bible. Tell me about this
Jesus.
>> and not the only one to be born of a virgin
>> mother,
>
> hercules was born of a virgin mother also. it is the language of the
> ancient religions. hercules and jesus were of the royal lignage and
> outcasts that found their way with the father god's help.
>
Is hercules a myth?
>> have a short ministry, die a horrible death, come back to
>> life............in other words at that period of time a real common myth
>
> this is the nature of the earth, the tree is cut down and grow again,
> the main is cut down and lives again. the world constantly reinvents
> itself.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> no we don't. unless this is a topic that interest you.
>>
>> being that you made a response to the topic, you do.
>
> not at all, it is a ruse used by many to defame all homosexuals.
As you should have noticed, I have made no such referral. So please tell me what
you mean underage sex? How is it a ruse used to defame all homosexuals? Once you
do we can move on.
>
> you are randomly picking topics and then blaming them on the person
> chatting you.
Randomly picking topics? Tell me how is this?
> tell us what concerns you. tell us what is important to you.
> you can criticize all day, that does not reveal anything about
> yourself.
>
>>> consequences are the results of sin.
>>
>> There, now was that so hard? consequences are the results of actions. Sin is an
>> action.
>
> who said it wasn't? inaction is an action as well.
Good progress, thank you for proving Fred's point.
>
> > not trying to complete a test.
>>
>> A race or competition of any kind is a test.
>
> then you are wasting both our energy and time.
> for you are daudling and not carrying your weight in this
> conversation.
>
I have been carrying the conservation.
> there are points to be made, you are obviscating your own reality with
> non real examples.
>
What points would you like to make?
>>
>>> that is because the community will not provide public transport.
>>
>> Many do not, that makes having a vehicle a need.
>
> that makes that community a problem for the poor.
Yes it does.
> that suggests that community has not made room for everyone.
Your suggestion is correct.
> public transportation is the best when designed the for those it
> serves.
Quite true.
>
>>> we can take the bus in many places or just walk or bike.
>>
>> Only if there is a bus route locally, a bike is only good in certain types of
>> weather, and is not very good at anything more than a single person vehicle.
>> It's laughable to use a bicycle in what I do.
>
> so you only see a gas guzzle car as your local solution?
A car would hardly do! I require a 16000 pound truck. It does not guzzle gas, it
guzzles diesel. Is it the full solution? Yes for work, not for other activities,
which is why I have more fuel efficient and alternative vehicles for my personal
use.
> back in the day people hitched to find each other or simple walked
> miles.
That can work, when your travels are not time sensitive.
> now everyone needs a car to go to the store around the block or down
> the lane?
>
No, everybody does not need a car to go around the block.
>
>>> so merlin is punished for merlin's sins against fred.
>>
>> No you were corrected. You did not sin.
>
> same thing.
Not the same thing.
> cause fred will never be happy with any response.
Fred would be happy with a honest response. Try it.
Ike E 12/10/2009
[snip]
> That is all you believe in you know a story. A story passed down from one
> religion to another.
Once more for the moron: What Christ said outstripped science by 2,000
years, but no one in His time had the science to say what He said, which
means what He knew DIDN'T COME FROM SCIENCE, but ETERNAL WISDOM.
And then you come along in your ignorance and blaspheme everything that is
God, when you don't even know what He said.
Go figure.
Ike
Ike E 12/10/2009
Nope. Eight levels below.
You people are so dumb you don't even see that you do Satan's work when you
pollute Jesus' Gospel with your "religion."
Ike
Thommadura
> On Dec 13, 10:22 am, "Fred Thomas" <f...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> can you not break promises to yourself?
>> can you not live up to your own expectations?
>> can you not reach your goals with or with god?
>>
>> this is the real nature of sin, our relationships with ourself, and
>> how
>> we negotiate with ourselves in our lives emotionally, mentally, and
>> subconciously
>> and you can do all this with out god hons.
>> you can live up to your standards, you can create your own art for
>> living.
>> *************************************************************
>> you seem to miss the point...........sin is a transgression against a
>> deity............no deity no sin.
>
> you don't seem to understand that when one does not have a diety,
> that their highest standards are their own, and when people
> break their standards they are sinning against themselves and their
> goals.
Nonsense
Since there are NO deities proven to exist -
ALl of the standards set for people were created by other people.
IF you actually READ confucius and Buddha - - you will see that the
morals of ethics which they professed 500 years before the christ cover
everything god based religions do -there is NOTHING new in the bible.
At the same time - if you look at the supposed ACTIONS of the god of the
Bible (It is supposed to be one god - according to christianity) - the
GENOCIDE - and horrific action like pounding children's heads against
rocks - and taking the young virgin women for yourselves - are
reprehensible.
THe word sin - as used in religion as an offense against a god is
meaningless unless you can prove a god - and them prove what that god
(In the case of a monotheism - who created all evil) considers an offense.
And then - when you actually compare theists to non-theists in the real
world - there is NO connection between belief and moral and ethical
behavior.
THe countries of the world with the highest numbers of non-believers
have the lowest crime rates. (According to the UN)
ANd when studied by christians themselves (THe Barbna Christian research
group_) Fundamental christians have higher murder - suicide - crime -
and divorce rates than non-believers.
Thommadura
> "Fred Thomas" <fr...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:hg2r43$kpf$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> [snip]
>
>> That is all you believe in you know a story. A story passed down from one
>> religion to another.
>
> Once more for the moron: What Christ said outstripped science by 2,000
> years, but no one in His time had the science to say what He said, which
> means what He knew DIDN'T COME FROM SCIENCE, but ETERNAL WISDOM.
Sorry - but that the christ said anything is NOT proven to be true
So - quote your belief all you want - without proof - ALL it is is belief.
>
> And then you come along in your ignorance and blaspheme everything that is
> God, when you don't even know what He said.
>
Again - since no gods are proven to exist - and YOU certainly are one
who have never proven any - your statement has NO real meaning in reality.
Go back to bed and dream on.
Merlin
you are stuck on christianity. you seem to want to prove something
for or against christianity and will not budge from being against or
for christianity.
as you say you are not religious, why do you dwell in religiosity? why
not dwell in fredology.
it might free your mind up to experience more.
in love with the living loving gay jesus,
merlin
Thommadura
> On Dec 13, 4:59 pm, "Fred Thomas" <f...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> you are stuck on christianity. you seem to want to prove something
> for or against christianity and will not budge from being against or
> for christianity.
Since nothing is PROVEN for christianity - there is NOTHING to be
against other than that statements of the deluded theists who claim
truths that are not established to be anything.
Fred Thomas
"Ike E 12/10/2009" <xhermanei...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:hg5b7c$k30$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> "Fred Thomas" <fr...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:hg2r43$kpf$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> [snip]
>
>> That is all you believe in you know a story. A story passed down from one
>> religion to another.
>
> Once more for the moron: What Christ said outstripped science by 2,000 years,
> but no one in His time had the science to say what He said, which means what
> He knew DIDN'T COME FROM SCIENCE, but ETERNAL WISDOM.
>
it with you, that is if you are able.
Fred Thomas
On Dec 13, 4:59 pm, "Fred Thomas" <f...@aol.com> wrote:
(you)
you are stuck on christianity. you seem to want to prove something
for or against christianity and will not budge from being against or
for christianity.
as you say you are not religious, why do you dwell in religiosity? why
not dwell in fredology.
it might free your mind up to experience more.
in love with the living loving gay jesus,
merlin
(me)
I find it interesting that you, a gay man believes in this Jesus. Tell me about
this Jesus, as that you are saying you are not a Christian ( that is what is
called a follower of Jesus ), yet you have this devotion to a person named
Jesus. Tell me about him. I've asked before, I'll assume you missed it. Is it
the same Jesus of the Christian bible or some other Jesus? Is this Jesus a
deity?
Fred Thomas
"Ike E 12/10/2009" <xhermanei...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:hg5bb4$kk1$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Ike E 12/10/2009
>
> "Ike E 12/10/2009" <xhermanei...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:hg5b7c$k30$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> "Fred Thomas" <fr...@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:hg2r43$kpf$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>> That is all you believe in you know a story. A story passed down from
>>> one religion to another.
>>
>> Once more for the moron: What Christ said outstripped science by 2,000
>> years, but no one in His time had the science to say what He said, which
>> means what He knew DIDN'T COME FROM SCIENCE, but ETERNAL WISDOM.
>>
> OK, tell me what "science" jesus talked about or taught. I'm willing to
> discuss it with you, that is if you are able.
Already did.
It was a waste of time.
You're not looking for Truth.
You're looking for an argument.
Dickhead.
Ike
Ike E 12/10/2009
Merlin does NOT "believe in Jesus."
He just abuses Jesus' name to advance his own private agenda.
Ike
Ike E 12/10/2009
Says the nitwit who condemns a book he totally doesn't understand.
Ike
Fred Thomas
>
> "Fred Thomas" <fr...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:hg6gkm$109$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> "Ike E 12/10/2009" <xhermanei...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:hg5b7c$k30$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>
>>> "Fred Thomas" <fr...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>> news:hg2r43$kpf$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>>> That is all you believe in you know a story. A story passed down from one
>>>> religion to another.
>>>
>>> Once more for the moron: What Christ said outstripped science by 2,000
>>> years, but no one in His time had the science to say what He said, which
>>> means what He knew DIDN'T COME FROM SCIENCE, but ETERNAL WISDOM.
>>>
>> OK, tell me what "science" jesus talked about or taught. I'm willing to
>> discuss it with you, that is if you are able.
>
> Already did.
>
I must have missed it or you were "discussing" it with some one else.
Fred Thomas
Fred Thomas
Merlin
> I find it interesting that you, a gay man believes in this Jesus.
jesus is alive and available today to anyone that seeks jesus out.
it does not have to be belief, it can be a living vital relationship.
as jesus is shown to have had with the father.
all it takes is following the concept of love to the max.
god isn't about sexuality, man is about sexuality.
there is no sex in god, god is the encompassing concepts of father and
mother.
as the mother is the universe known and unknown.
> Tell me about
> this Jesus, as that you are saying you are not a Christian ( that is what is
> called a follower of Jesus ),
you are saying you are not a christian, merlin is a christian
and does not live in fear of god.
you fred are the one saying you are not a christian hons.
> yet you have this devotion to a person named
> Jesus.
respect for the person called jesus, love for the soul that came be to
known as jesus.
we all have many faces, our family face, our private face, our public
face.
so to with spirit, we have our face in human form and our face in non
human form.
and each of has a character that does not exist in the same way in non
human form
as it does in human form. it helps to have an imagination, for merlin
does
believe the imagination to be god.
> Tell me about him.
what can one say of a friend that came before, and found and shared
what we may do now and almost take for granted. We have a key to the
whole universe in the life and stories of jesus, we have the example
of the simple life, we have the example of the goodness that life can
bring through love, and we have the example of someone that struggled
with and won and understanding of the two worlds we straddle in human
form, the seen and unseen worlds. We see jesus being a plain
ordinary hard working bloke as a carpenter, we see jesus as the loving
caring neighbor who word of mouth of his good deeds spread like a fire
to those in need, we see the sentient being in the story of jesus
being in a crowd and asking who touched my robe, we have the glorious
nature of man revealed in the conversation with the father god in the
garden before the arrest, as well as the compassionate man that
suffered in kindness when treated poorly in prison prolly being abuse
as the iraqis were abused in abu greb.
> I've asked before,
there is nothing you can't find out for yourself fred.
it is all a matter of loving so much god can't resist us.
> I'll assume you missed it.
assume is a funny word.
> Is it
> the same Jesus of the Christian bible or some other Jesus?
can anyone's life be totally contained in one book? does not any
biographer put their own stamp on the personage they reveal? the
total picture of jesus can be found the hearts of those that love
jesus and have found jesus, not just one story, the compendium of all
the stories makes up the greater and possibly clearer picture of the
man and witness within.
> Is this Jesus a
> deity?
no person nor being that ever was seen as a god has asked merlin to
worship them as a god. only men ask merlin to worship god.
what does deity do for anyone? how does it help us? we are all part
of god, and so in a sense are gods in the becoming. we will all one
day return to the state of wholeness when the big bang shrinks back to
the whole.
deity is something people call greater than the human experience.
merlin isn't into gods or deity rather into love and respect, and
learning the protocols of communion with those that are greater in
experience and understanding than merlin and the rest of us may be at
this time.
all life seen and unseen, can have older and younger brothers and
sisters, all life has teachers and students. all life has way showers
and seekers. it isn't about calling someone or something god, it is
about what we experience in our lives and how we rise to each occasion
and become better for that experience, and achieve another
understanding we may have forgotten.
all life is eternal, all souls live for ever, it is the condition of
lives that matters by the solutions we find in respect for ourselves
and each other that let us grasp concepts beyond our experience, and
that is the message of jesus life and love,
in love with the living loving gay jesus,
merlin
in humility thank you for asking.
Fred Thomas
On Dec 14, 6:14 pm, "Fred Thomas" <f...@aol.com> wrote:
> I find it interesting that you, a gay man believes in this Jesus.
jesus is alive and available today to anyone that seeks jesus out.
it does not have to be belief, it can be a living vital relationship.
as jesus is shown to have had with the father.
all it takes is following the concept of love to the max.
*******************************************************
A concept is not reality. Jesus IS a belief, how can a person have a
"relationship" with some one who is either a myth and if were alive dead?
********************************************8
god isn't about sexuality, man is about sexuality.
there is no sex in god, god is the encompassing concepts of father and
mother.
as the mother is the universe known and unknown.
**********************************************************
Why do you believe is a god? Especially the god in the bible?
**********************************************************
> Tell me about
> this Jesus, as that you are saying you are not a Christian ( that is what is
> called a follower of Jesus ),
you are saying you are not a christian, merlin is a christian
and does not live in fear of god.
**************************************************
That's good, there is no reason to ever have a fear of god.
****************************************************8
you fred are the one saying you are not a christian hons.
> yet you have this devotion to a person named
> Jesus.
respect for the person called jesus, love for the soul that came be to
known as jesus.
we all have many faces, our family face, our private face, our public
face.
so to with spirit, we have our face in human form and our face in non
human form.
and each of has a character that does not exist in the same way in non
human form
as it does in human form. it helps to have an imagination, for merlin
does
believe the imagination to be god.
**********************************************************
By definition, the imagination can not be a god/deity.
*****************************************************
> Tell me about him.
what can one say of a friend that came before, and found and shared
what we may do now and almost take for granted. We have a key to the
whole universe in the life and stories of jesus, we have the example
of the simple life, we have the example of the goodness that life can
bring through love, and we have the example of someone that struggled
with and won and understanding of the two worlds we straddle in human
form, the seen and unseen worlds. We see jesus being a plain
ordinary hard working bloke as a carpenter, we see jesus as the loving
caring neighbor who word of mouth of his good deeds spread like a fire
to those in need, we see the sentient being in the story of jesus
being in a crowd and asking who touched my robe, we have the glorious
nature of man revealed in the conversation with the father god in the
garden before the arrest, as well as the compassionate man that
suffered in kindness when treated poorly in prison prolly being abuse
as the iraqis were abused in abu greb.
*********************************************************
There are a number of real people in past history that you can look up to for
good works.
***********************************************************
> I've asked before,
there is nothing you can't find out for yourself fred.
it is all a matter of loving so much god can't resist us.
**********************************************************
Well dude, I could not disagree with you more, you can not love what does not
exist. What does not exist does not pass on information
******************************************************************
> I'll assume you missed it.
assume is a funny word.
> Is it
> the same Jesus of the Christian bible or some other Jesus?
can anyone's life be totally contained in one book? does not any
biographer put their own stamp on the personage they reveal? the
total picture of jesus can be found the hearts of those that love
jesus and have found jesus, not just one story, the compendium of all
the stories makes up the greater and possibly clearer picture of the
man and witness within.
*******************************************************
So I take it that the jesus of the bible is the Jesus you refer, as I said, you
a gay person I find very intresting.
**********************************************************
> Is this Jesus a
> deity?
no person nor being that ever was seen as a god has asked merlin to
worship them as a god. only men ask merlin to worship god.
what does deity do for anyone? how does it help us? we are all part
of god, and so in a sense are gods in the becoming. we will all one
day return to the state of wholeness when the big bang shrinks back to
the whole.
**********************************************************
Now there's a twist.
************************************************************
deity is something people call greater than the human experience.
merlin isn't into gods or deity rather into love and respect, and
learning the protocols of communion with those that are greater in
experience and understanding than merlin and the rest of us may be at
this time.
********************************************************
Love and respect for the fellow man does not require a deity
***********************************************************
Ike E 12/10/2009
>
> "Ike E 12/10/2009" <xhermanei...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:hg7ife$232$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
[snip]
>> Says the nitwit who condemns a book he totally doesn't understand.
>>
>> Ike
>>
> Would you like to discuss the collection of texts?
I already told you: There is no "discussion" with you.
You're not about "discussion."
You're about "argument."
That's why you're a "dickhead."
Ike
Fred Thomas
Thommadura
Since the BOOK is nothing more than a compilation of religious beliefs -
that were VOTED into the book by a bunch of catholic leaders - and HAS
no basis in PROVEN truth - what is there that YOU can prove - that we do
not understand.
By all means provide a list of ALL the TRUTH - and the PROOF of it -
that would be accepted by every religion in the world - regardless of
their beliefs. HA - you cannot even get all the christians of the world
to agree on it!
TO date - not a single theist has added ONE thing to this list - and you
are likely to do the same as well.
duke
<xhermanei...@gmail.com> wrote:
We follow Jesus' gospel. You make up parallel assessments to follow.
The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Ike E 12/10/2009
No, you are incapable of conceptualizing, as you've already demonstrated.
Nice attempt to goad me into a pointless argument though.
You are true to form, dickhead.
Ike
Ike E 12/10/2009
Hardly: Jesus' Gospel was a grassroots movement with no religious
overhead...until you people came along.
> You make up parallel assessments to follow.
No, we strip Jesus' Christianity of your religion.
Ike
Fred Thomas
science, and you know it. other wise you could have responded with something,
like the god "revealed" bats are birds. You have nothing, so you resort to your
normal name calling and antagonistic replies.If you really did not want a
pointless argument, you would have simply just not responded, or not even be
involved in discussion groups. But the fact is you are in discussion groups,
which implies you ARE looking for an argument and your only problem here is that
you have no real argument. In other words you came to a gun fight with nothing.
Fred Thomas
"Ike E 12/10/2009" <xhermanei...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:hgbbtf$pdh$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Ike E 12/10/2009
[snip]
> It's very simple Ike.
Yes it is...you're a dickhead.
God anything else to say, dickhead?
Ike
Ike E 12/10/2009
[snip]
> You both stole the myths from older religions.
"You say," but you're a dickhead, so what does it matter what "you say?"
Ike
Fred Thomas
>
>
Fred Thomas
Ike E 12/10/2009
LOL
Ike
Ike E 12/10/2009
LOL
2Co 11:12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from
them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even
as we.
Ike
Fred Thomas
How sporting of you, at least you can laugh at your loss.
> Ike
>
Fred Thomas
"Now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do."
God worries that people could build a tower high enough to reach him (them?) in
heaven, and that by so doing they will become omnipotent................ God
sends quails to feed his people until they were "two cubits [about a meter] high
upon the face of the earth." Taking the "face of the earth" to be a circle with
a radius of say 30 kilometers (an approximate day's journey), this would amount
to 3 trillion (3x1012) liters of quails. At 2 quails per liter, this would
provide a couple million quails for each of several million
people..........................."They ... cut down ... a branch with one
cluster of grapes, and they bare it between two upon a staff."
A single cluster of grapes was so heavy that it took two men to carry it. I
guess that's what you'd expect, though, since they were in the land of
giants...............................Og, the king of the giants, was a tall man,
even by NBA standards. His bed measured 9 by 4 cubits (13.5 feet long and 6 feet
wide). ......................................."The LORD shall make the rain of
thy land powder and dust: from heaven shall it come down upon thee, until thou
be destroyed." ...................Joshua says that those who try to rebuild
Jericho will be accursed by God, and will have to sacrifice both their oldest
and their youngest sons in its construction. Well, Jericho still exists today,
and is often considered to be the world's oldest, continuously occupied
city.................................In Joshua 8 the Israelites destroy Ai and
make it a desolate heap. But Ai was an abandoned city by the time of the
Israelites and this story is a myth invented to explain the ruins of an ancient
city that the Israelites encountered. See Archaeology and Biblical Accuracy by
Farrell Till.........................In a divine type of daylight savings time,
God makes the sun stand still so that Joshua can get all his killing done before
dark............................................."The stars in their courses
fought against Sisera." Unless astrology is true, how can the stars affect the
outcome of a battle?................Samson rips up a young lion when "the spirit
of the Lord came mightily upon him." Later, when going to "take" his Philistine
wife he notices a swarm of bees and honey in the lion's carcass (a Divine
miracle -- or just rotting flesh, flies, and maggots?). .............."The
pillars of the earth are the LORD's, and he hath set the world upon
them...................After Jonathan's first slaughter (20 men in one half
acre), God showed his approval with "a very great trembling."
........................Goliath was ten feet tall ("six cubits and a span").
...................................In what is surely a biblical exaggeration, we
are told that "the servants of David" killed 20,000 soldiers in one day. And
that "the wood [forest] devoured more people that day than the sword devoured."
It must have been spooky forest to have devoured more than 20,000 soldiers.
.............................................."There went up a smoke out of his
nostrils, and fire out of his mouth."
What happens when God gets mad? The earth shakes, the foundations of heaven
move, smoke comes out of his nostrils, and fire out of his
mouth."...........................Daniel's tree is tall enough to be seen from
"the end of all the earth." Only on a flat earth would this be
possible.................................."Belshazzar the king"
Apparently, the author of Daniel knew of only two Babylonian kings during the
period of the exile: Nebuchadnezzar and Belshazzar, who he wrongly thought was
the son of Nebuchadnezzar. But Nebuchadnezzar died in 562 BCE and was succeeded
by his son, Awil-Marduk (referred to in the bible as "Evilmerodach" [see 2
Kg.25:27 and Jer.52:31]). In 560 BCE, Amel-Marduk was assassinated by his
brother-in-law, Nergal-shar-usur. The next and last king of Babylon was
Nabonidus who reigned from 556 to 539, when Babylon was conquered by Cyrus. It
was Nabonidus, and not Belshazzar, who was the last of the Babylonian kings.
Belshazzar was a the son and viceroy of Nabonidus. But he was not a king, and
was not the son (or any other relation) of
Nebuchadnezzar.......................................Darius the Median is a
fictitious character whom the author perhaps confused with Darius I of Persia,
who came to the throne in 521 BCE, 17 years after the fall of Babylon. The
author of Daniel incorrectly makes him the successor of Belshazzar instead of
Cyrus. ............................Herod kills all boys in and around Bethlehem
that are two years old and under. Such a massacre would certainly have been
noted by contemporary historians. Yet not even Josephus, who documented Herod's
life in detail, mentioned this event. ........................The devil kidnaps
Jesus and takes him up to the top of the temple, and then to the top of "an
exceedingly high mountain," high enough to see "all the kingdoms of the world."
I guess the earth was flat in those
days........................................According to Matthew, people who
cannot speak are possessed by the devil. ..........................