Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss

MENTAL ILLNESS & PARANOID DELUSIONS among Jehovah's Witnesses

147 views
Skip to first unread message

Watchtower Aspostate

unread,
Mar 11, 2008, 5:55:16 PM3/11/08
to
Rates of MENTAL ILLNESS & PARANOID DELUSIONS among Jehovah's Witnesses
--------------------------------------------------------------------


Many of us here have direct anecdotal evidence of how many JWs are, well,
simply put - *N*U*T*S*. Extremely self-centered - they think the whole
universe LITERALLY revolves around their door-to-door harassment of people
(the Almighty Creator of the Universe is waiting for this work to conclude,
and then He will "release" Armageddon!!!!). Like, seriously
delusional..... Paranoid. Suffering all sorts of neuroses, psychoses,
guilt, persecution and other complexes (indeed, their whole cult is based
around the precept of "VALIDATION BY PERSECUTION" - i.e., they will
actively lie and dissemble to try to portray themselves as being
persecuted, as that "proves" to them - misapplying Scripture as the
Watchtower always does - that they are the "one true faith", and that ALL
earthly authorities are in the direct control of Satan The Devil), etc.
Schizoid behavior is not uncommon...

So would you be if you really, truly, actually, LITERALLY believed the sky
was going to open up any second and a mad killer "gawd" Jehovah was going
to swoop down and massacre six billion people (basically, everyone not
associated with the Jehovah's Witnesses, two billion kids included). They
are trained that everything on earth outside the Watchtower is EVIL and
"SATANIC" - indeed, one loopy jW has taken to referring to me as Satan
himself. So sad.... they are the victims of a very greedy
magazine-publishing MLM organization run from Brooklyn, but they have been
thoroughly brain-washed and cannot see it.

Jehovah's Witnesses are encouraged not to read the following scholarly
paper, as the truths that are contained therein will quite likely hurt
their delicate sensibilities, and FURTHER fuel their already over-developed
persecution and martyr complexes! Also, I have no wish to be on the
receiving end of the rage of these cult fanatics - I have received several
death threats merely for exposing the Watchtower's sins over the years, and
been the victim of the foulest abuse and lying imaginable.

Let us see why the medical and psychiatric professions have not been able
to help JWs: and what the EXPERTS say about this particular JW Armageddon
Cult.
You will also see PROOF that rates of MENTAL ILLNESS are up to FORTY TIMES
HIGHER among JWs than among the general population. So watch out for them!
You have been warned!

JWs EQUATE MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONALS WITH *MONKEYS*

"..as a rule, for a Christian to go to a worldly psychiatrist is an
admission of defeat, it amounts to 'going down to Egypt for help.' -Isaiah
31:1. Often when a Witness of Jehovah goes to a psychiatrist, the
psychiatrist will try to persuade him that his troubles are caused by his
religion, entirely overlooking the fact that the Christian witnesses of
Jehovah are the best-oriented, happiest and most contented group of people
on the face of the earth.. They have the least need for psychiatrists.
Also, more and more psychiatrists are resorting to hypnosis, which is a
demonic form of worldly wisdom." {Awake Mar 8 1960 p27 - going further than
they went 6 years earlier, when they printed this insulting jibe against
the mental health profession in Awake!: "Without doubt psychologists ..
have a lot to learn and they think they know more than they actually do, or
they would not have let two chimpanzees make such monkeys out of them". The
ignorant Watchtower publishers did not even know that chimps are APES, not
MONKEYS...)

"Is the turning of people from the clergy to the psychiatrists a healthy
phenomenon? No, for it really is a case of jumping from the frying pan
into the fire. They are worse off than they were before.. That
[psychologists and psychiatrists] are not the ones to go to for help when
one is depressed and beset with all manner of problems is to be seen from
the fact that suicides among them are twice as frequent as among the
population in general .. what is needed at such times is not worldly
psychiatrists who may wholly ignore the change that the truth and God's
holy spirit have made in one's life and who know nothing of their power to
help one put on a new Christian personality. Rather, what is needed at
such times is a mature Christian in whom one has confidence and who is
vitally interested in one's welfare and who will not shrink back from
administering needed reproof or counsel so that one may get healed."
{Awake Aug 22 1975 p25}

This means - all JWs must stay away from psychiatrists and mental health
professionals, and instead go to JW Elders if there is a problem. We'll
see the consequences of this terrible advice...

*ALL* PUBLISHED STUDIES SHOW JWs HAVE HIGH RATES OF MENTAL ILLNESS

The JW claim to be the "best-oriented, happiest and most contented group
of people on the face of the earth.. They have the least need for
psychiatrists." is significantly refuted by ALL the scientific evidence.
The real reason for the warnings about psychiatrists from the JW Society
is to hide the truth from JWs - ALL known studies on the mental health of
JWs are outlined here.. so I am not merely selecting the worst ones.

The most recent is termed 'Wifely Subjection: Mental Health Issues in
Jehovah's Witness Women', Psychological Manipulation and Society, Cultic
Studies Journal Vol. 14, No. 1, 1997 by Kaynor Weishaupt MS and Michael
Stensland; and concludes that the WTBTS Society exerts a great deal of
control over the everyday life of JWs, and female JWs suffer most from
psychological stresses in the high-control environment. Strong patriarchal
JW attitudes limit women and predominate in their relationships with men
(and having relationships with non-JW men are strongly condemned, and
sexual contact before marriage is totally prohibited). JW women (who left)
were found to have a significant degree of mental health problems, which
lessened when they left. Also, their relationships with men improved after
leaving and became more egalitarian.

Dr Kjell Totland's study 'The Mental Health of Jehovah's' Witnesses.'
appeared in the 1996 Journal of the Norwegian Psychological Association
and concluded that JWs suffered from an abnormally high number of mental
disorders.

Dr Elmer Koppl in 1985 in 'Die Zeugen Jehovas; Eine Psychologische
Analyses' also found that the incidence of mental health problems among
JWs were unusually high.

In the same year, Dr R.Potter (A Social Psychological Study of
Fundamentalist Christianity, Sussex University) concluded that there
exists "a strong positive correlation between Witness membership and
clinical schizophrenia."

And again in the same year, Dr U.Sack (Case Studies of Voluntary Defectors
from Intensive Religious Groups, University of California) reached the
same conclusions via a different (case-study based) route.

Havor Montague, a licensed therapist, in 'The Pessimistic Sect's Influence
on the Mental Health of Its Members: The Case of Jehovah's Witnesses,'
Social Compass, Vol 24, 1977 135-47, monitored admissions to mental
hospitals and clinics in Ohio during 1972-76, and from a JW mentally-ill
sample size of 102 estimated that "the mental illness rate of Jehovah's
Witnesses is approximately 10 to 16 times higher than the rate for the
general, non-Witness population.." While persons who had emotional
problems were attracted to the JWs, the JW involvement was a larger part
of the issue - evident as the majority who had mental problems and who
left, reported they were much happier after leaving.. Montague went on to
conclude "The staff of most large mental hospitals are usually quite
familiar with the JWs. One hospital, a doctor told this writer, is
'clogged with them'. Another mental hospital is even nick-named 'The
Watchtower House' because it has so many Witness patients."

In 1976 Dr Jerry Bergman published 'The Evaluation of an Experimental
Program Designed to Reduce Recidivism Among Second Felony Offenders.'
(Detroit, Mi; Wayne State University), wherein examination of Oakland
County court records from 1965-73 revealed that the mental illness rate,
suicide rate and crime (especially aggressive crimes against people) rate
for JWs are all significantly higher than average.

Dr J.Spencer studied 'The Mental Health of Jehovah's Witnesses' in the
British Journal of Psychiatry's Journal of Mental Science, Vol 126 1975
556-9, by examining records of all 7,546 admissions in 1971-3 to all West
Australian Psychiatric Hospitals. Using the patients' self-reported
religious affiliation, Spencer conservatively computed JWs had psychiatric
admission rates 165%, diagnosed neurosis 195%, schizophrenia 300% and
paranoid schizophrenia 370% of the respective averages for the non-JW
population! The author stated "The study .. suggests that either the
Jehovah's Witnesses sect tends to attract an excess of pre-psychotic
individuals who may then break down, or else being a Jehovah's Witness is
itself a stress which may precipitate a psychosis." But even these
extraordinarily high rates for JWs are very significantly under-reported
for the following reasons:
(a) JWs, may be unwilling to admit to being JWs due to the low
socio-economic ranking of JWs (30th out of 30 per a recent study by Kosmin
& Lachman 1993; this also makes it unlikely people would pretend to be
JWs).
(b) Also the Society strongly criticised psychiatry and equated going to a
psychiatrist to "going down to Egypt". In addition to the headline quote,
see {AWAK Aug 22 1975 25-6, AWAK Apr 22 1975, WT Jul 1 1975 415-6, WT 1975
255-6, WT 1963 319-20} for additional examples.
(c) JWs are usually careful about "bringing reproach on Jehovah's visible
organization" and would therefore hide the fact that they were JWs. See
Heather & Gary Botting: 'The Orwellian World of Jehovah's Witnesses'
(University of Toronto Press, 1984). Also, theocratic lying to protect the
Society is commendable to JWs, as is seen in other quotes.
(d) JWs aware of their poor mental state are typically ashamed as they are
taught that good JWs are happy ("Happy is everyone fearing Jehovah..
walking in His ways .. happy you will be and it will be well with you."
Psalm 128:1-2) and so cannot become mentally ill {WT Apr 1 1993 28-30, WT
1970 358, WT 1968 515-6, WT 1960 95} unless they have displeased God, and
will thus hide their problems from even a trusted therapist. Donald
Salzman: 'A Study of Isolation and Immunization of Individuals from the
Larger Society in Which They Live' (University of Chicago 1951)
(e) Many JWs avoid obtaining medical help, despite being psychotic, in a
catatonic state, severely depressed or brain damaged, because of their
inherent distrust of professionals, ingrained by the Society. See Barbara
Harrison: 'Visions of Glory: A History and a Memory of Jehovah's
Witnesses' (Simon and Schuster, N.Y. 1978)
(f) The Society actively discourages JWs from social or spiritual contact
with non-JWs, so the JW's psychiatric condition is less likely to be
reported.
(g) Many JW-students or temporarily non-associating JWs including those
brought up as JWs would be unlikely to classify themselves as JWs when
asked - though in assessing the number of JWs in Western Australia such
people were included. Many persons raised around the influence of the
Witnesses (especially during their formative years) who leave as adults
often remain largely JW in belief (Penton 1985).
(h) There was no pressure on patients to disclose this information -
proportions are worked out on the basis that many stated no religious
affiliation.
(i) JWs do not view their faith, which they call "the truth" as being a
religious affiliation at all - and so would not need to answer the survey
with other than "none".
(j) JWs would be afraid that if any member of the staff of the
psychiatrist or interviewer was a JW, they would get reported to their
elders and disciplined/disfellowshipped (with consequent lifelong shunning
in the vast majority of cases).
(k) For the reasons set out at (d), a troubled JW is likely to go to his
elders, who are liable to recommend against seeing a mental health
professional (for obvious reasons, unrelated to what is best for that JW)
and in serious cases even to remove (or get him to remove himself by
making him feel unwelcome) the suffering one from the congregation lest he
bring shame to the JWs. This way he no longer gets counted as a "demonized
JW" but as a "non-JW, worldly lunatic".
For these ELEVEN reasons it is estimated that there is a 2-4 times
under-representation in the mental health figures, indicating that ~10% of
Jehovah's Witnesses are in urgent need of serious psychiatric help. Many
have grown able to conceal their mental illness from outsiders, convincing
householders how happy JWs are, while immediately after speaking for hours
to fellow JWs of severe depression and feelings of hopelessness, hatred
and suppressed anger towards JWs and outsiders etc.

Spencer's studies reinforced those of Dr J. von Janner in the Forensic
Psychiatric and military medical assessment of Conscientious Objectors,
published in the Schweizerische Medizinische Wochenschrift 1962 Vol 93, No
23 819-26. Janner examined 100 randomly selected Swiss citizens whose
objection to military service resulted in imprisonment. 85% were JWs, and
a significant proportion of these were introverted, with high levels of
fear anxiety, severe neuroticism and/or social isolation tendencies. 96%
of JWs were unskilled or semi-skilled workers. Over a twentienth of the
JWs had been previously convicted of a sexual offence (e.g. paedophilia,
exhibitionism) and another twentieth of non-sexual offences. Janner
concluded the JWs were "quite colorless .. somewhat removed from reality".
It was observed that the Society was detrimental to many regardless of
their problems at the time they were indoctrinated.

An even more telling earlier study on the mental health of JWs was by Dr
M.J.Pescor M.D. in 1949, published in The American Journal of Psychiatry,
Vol 105 No 9, pp641-52, with a sample size of 177 JWs. He found that 44%
of Conscientious Objector JWs who were hospitalized were clinically
psychotic (if faking, they would surely fake less unpleasant things -
psychotic patients may need restraining, would get a permanent medical
record that was liable to restrict their future choices - as well as mean
they were likely to be released LATER than anyone else)! This represented
7.5% of ALL the 177 C.O. JWs in the study - a rate TWENTY to FORTY times
the average for the general population (0.2-0.4%)! The ratio is fair as
nearly all male JWs of draft age were included: though some JWs accepted
alternative service and probably exhibited a less psychotic profile, most
did not and were imprisoned - so the adjustment would be negligible. On
the other hand, the most psychotic of JWs would have been excluded from
Pescor's sample as they would have been judged medically unfit for service
(and thus not C.O.s at all) - so the real figures for JW psychotics could
be even worse than forty times more than in the general population.
Another 4% of the whole JW population studied (not just the hospitalized)
had other serious mental abnormalities and 24% were rated socially
maladjusted. Almost 50% of JWs were raised on farms and over 50% were
engaged in agricultural work, usually as laborers. Under half had some
high school education (but the median grade was only 9.2). Spanish was the
most popular class pursued while in prison.

The earliest study I found was by Swedish psychiatrist Dr Gosta Rylander,
in 'A Psychological and Sociological Study of Jehovah's Witnesses',
published in Nordisk Medicin 1946, Vol 29 p526-33. Over 93% of the
randomly-selected Conscientious Objectors he studied were JWs. Of the JWs,
41% were diagnosed as neurotic, over 33% as psychotic, over 25% as
mentally retarded, and 4% as brain-damaged. Again, these figures are
under-estimates because the more obviously "crazy" JWs would not have been
classified as Conscientious Objectors but just as lunatics (who are
automatically excluded from military service). Diagnosis was on the basis
of pathological behavior, including irrational paranoia and severe
long-term depression. Rylander observed some of the symptoms were evident
before conversion to JWs, but the Society's influence was often
detrimental to mental health, sometimes severely so. c4% of the eligible
armed service Swedish population were judged, on a borad index,
psychologically unfit for service - the corresponding figure for JWs was
21% - five times higher! Most of the JWs were actively involved in the
Watchtower (which is why they had to reject military service). Rylander
concluded that many lacked education, job skills, emotional stability and
quality social relations. Unsatisfactory employment records existed
because of psychological deficiencies, lack of ability and immaturity.
Rylander found that JWs committed "a relatively large number of small
crimes and other misdemeanors which generally resulted only in a fine.. 3%
of the JWs had been imprisoned for stealing or harboring of stolen
property, and 29% have been fined for various offenses (traffic
violations, drunkenness, unlawful selling of alcohol, poaching, unlawful
entering, etc.)". The neurotic symptoms widespread in the JW sample
included "feelings of discomfort, general anxiety, poor sleep habits,
times of brooding over what they see as the meaninglessness of life, the
wrongs they have suffered and the mistakes they have made." He concluded
that individual Witnesses tended to be burdened with a variety of serious
concerns and often joined the sect in an effort to solve their many
problems.

Unsurprising then is this internal report from the Jehovah's Witnesses'
OWN psychologist Dr Onoda to the sect's Governing Body (as quoted in
M.J.Penton's: 'Apocalypse Delayed' (1985) by: "I would like to consider
another reason why Jehovah's people have mental problems, but I want to be
cautious that some do not misunderstand the following statements..
Jehovah's true organization .. can contribute to or accelerate an existing
problem rather than making it better. What Biblical teaching contributes
to making a problem worse? It is guilt. Jehovah's people are confronted
with a higher standard and thus have greater psychological pressure. The
'world' says, if it makes you feel guilty get rid of it. But we have to
maintain the high level of Christian conduct in our families, daily lives
and personalities. We cannot think a wrong thought without feeling guilty.
If the Witness becomes unbalanced, he/she may become overly despondent and
feel like a failure because perfection cannot be attained in mind, body
and thought. In essence, some of the 'Friends' try so hard to please
Jehovah that they become mentally ill."

TYPICAL RESPONSE TO THIS OVERWHELMING PROOF FROM A JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

A typical JW reply to this overwhelming evidence - even from their "own"
official psychiatrist - is along the lines of "The only true Christians
are us JWs, and we are persecuted for Jehovah's sake. These statistics
about the high mental illness rate are just another example of this." (a
brain-washed response in line with the findings of Penton 1985 and
Harrison 1978) or to outright refuse to acknowledge its validity (as found
by Botting 1984 - a natural ego-based reaction) and even notwithstanding
their own personal experiences of unhappiness and extremely odd behaviour
among JWs (Harrison 1978 and Hickman 1984). Lage 1984 and Bergman observed
among almost a hundred JWs repeated examples of proselytizing (claiming
happiness) while confiding immense doubts, troubles, fears and inter-JW
personality conflicts a few minutes later.

WHAT CAUSES THE HIGH RATE OF MENTAL ILLNESS AMONG JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES?

(A) Endless change in policy and doctrine, flip-flopping as many as eight
times on a single issue. Vaccinations were absolutely prohibited {GAGE Feb
4 1931 293} into the 1960s but are now extolled; all organ transplants
were banned in {WT Nov 15 1967 702-4} - even corneal, kidney and other
transplants were considered cannibalism. Then most transplants became
acceptable except for bone marrow ones {WT Mar 15 1980 31}, but the
exception was over-ruled 4 years later. In {WT 1961 63-4} they reversed
themselves and prohibited blood transfusions of ANY sort (as being eating
blood and being punishable by automatic disfellowshipping and lifelong
shunning - JWs were compelled to watch their children die - and hundreds
did). Even the use of adhesives based on blood was prohibited, as well as
the use of pet food containing any part of blood! This was followed by
thirty years of changing back and forth, allowing (and disallowing) the
use of various blood fractions including serum, albumin, globulins, factor
VIII, factor IX, own stored and even circulating blood. The ban on blood
fractions for hemophiliacs was lifted in 1978. Even the quantity of blood
was made an issue - "a tiny amount" was OK in some defined cases. Finally
in {WT Jun 15 1991 30-1} the doctrine was turned about provided "a court
authorized transfusion seems likely" and the JW had "put forth strenuous
efforts to avoid a violation of God's law on blood" and that he "could
view it as suffering for the sake of righteousness". In the Journal of the
American Medical Association, Feb 1997 Vol 277 No 5 425, it was estimated
that the doctrine had "led thousands to die needlessly". Even now the
Society encourages and joins with people suing doctors either due to
failed procedures arising from non-use of blood or for using blood without
full consent. Other JW flip-flops are to be found throughout this List.
Guilt and suppressed rage are predictable phenomena in JWs whose lives
have been affected by such changes - typical is 'if only the Society had
changed its mind a few years earlier, then..'. No wonder mental health of
many suffer.

(B) The teaching that all outside their Organization are Satanic and to be
destroyed at Armageddon produces all sorts of aberrant behavior.
Pennsylvania teenagers Bryan (17) and David (16) Freeman murdered their
parents and young brother in 1995, had strict upbringing as Jehovah's
Witnesses, Carl Taylor, a Michigan State University criminologist, noted
(The Detroit News. Mar 3 1995 8a). William Carlson (16) murdered both his
parents is another of perhaps hundreds of similar cases (Chicago News Sun
29-30 Oct 19-30 1990). In 1999, JW-student Timothy Barton murdered his
children, wife and many others in Atlanta - his wife was actively anti-JW
and did not wish the children to be indoctrinated (so by murdring them
Barton was giving them a better chance to see Paradise, as his death note
suggested).

(C) Every single prophecy or prediction of any import made by the JWs has
failed (the world has ended but no one noticed - many times over), as this
List amply indicates (hundreds of failures...). As the Society's
publications are (at least) quasi-inspired as they repeatedly claim ("a
new Bible chapter that arrives each week" is how critic Bergman puts it),
this awareness creates in the mind of the JW a deep-rooted phobia that the
Society is indeed false and Satanic (exactly what they accuse all others
of) - and that all the things they sacrificed to become and stay JWs were
a total waste, at best. This reality is terrifying for most JWs, whose
only way of coping with the trauma is to suppress and deny, rather than
deal with it. The resultant cognitive dissonance is hardly beneficial to
mental health either.

(D) The knowledge that most informed "worldly" people (who outnumber JWs
by almost 1,000:1) regard the JWs at best as severely dysfunctional and
deluded, and at worst as raving lunatics, is hardly calming. Recent
articles (Newsweek Jul 20 1981 75 'Are They False Witnesses?', Dec 18 1995
59) ridiculing JW failures - the claim that the "last days" countdown to
Armageddon began in 1914 (earlier, 1874), and that the generation of 1914
would witness Armageddon are replaced by now "all millennial bets are off
the sect's leaders quietly acknowledged that Jesus was right in the
first place". The widespread view of JWs as ignorant fools just reinforces
their foolish conduct, belief they are persecuted etc.

(E) The belief that their own ability to understand through independent
Bible study is zero, and only the very highest Society leaders (the
Governing Body: previously, individual charismatic Presidents) can discern
God's will, reinforces stupid activities.

(F) The repeated focus and total belief in Armageddon whose aftermath
shall be 6,000,000,000 corpses including thousands of millions of young
children, including all ones' loved ones alive at Armageddon who are not
associated with the JWs - is a belief structure liable to cause emotional
turmoil and even enough to derange.

(G) The Society is seen as the (only) Ark - doing good deeds or being
"christian" is irrelevant to salvation, all that really counts is
membership and compliance with the Society's often illogical rules and
minutiea. This unhealthy atmosphere is hardly conducive to mental
well-being.

(H) There is no honorable way to leave the JWs, and all JWs know this.
Both voluntary and involuntary (religious "Court") departures lead to
shunning by all JWs, which in practice is lifelong: ex-JWs who discuss JW
matters are viewed as "dogs returning to their own vomit". There are many
cases of parent-child links being severed forever as a result of shunning.
Shunning is a terrible threat, especially as the Society has actively
discouraged all contact with non-JWs except for proselytizing, so all
non-JW friends are usually lost while becoming a JW - and now all the JW
contacts (and family?) will be lost on leaving (the whole purpose being to
discourage disloyalty). The fear that there is no way out, and that they
have to go along while no longer believing the numerous false JW
teachings, can cause schizophrenia and worse.

(I) The Society's "historical archives provide a seemingly inexhaustible
pool of craziness, superficially written articles, and naive acceptance of
formerly in-vogue ideas .. their incredibly superficial research, and the
fact that the attitude of 'God directs us' tends to cause laziness - why
work hard if God directs the way? God will ensure that only what is true
will be published." (Bergman: JW Research Vol 1 No 4 Fall 1994 28). A
brain trained not to be used... "The size of the nose, as also the size of
the eyes, is not without significance. The small-nosed man cannot have a
judicial mind, whatever his other excellencies may be. And a man whose
nose upturns can no more be expected to administer justice than a pug dog
can be expected to act as a shepherd." {GA Jan 19 21 p224} is a typical
example. To see a hundred more absurd JW teachings, read my "List" at
http://www.intrex.net/tallyman/the_list.html

(J) The pressure of following all JW prescriptions and proscriptions,
jumping through hoops covering every aspect of life, from permitted
conduct in the marital bed, banning celebration of birthdays or holidays
(even non-religious ones), participation in school events, strongly
discouraging higher education, sports or career advancement (menial jobs
were encouraged - the JW was less likely to come into contact with those
who could logically show him his views were ill-founded), condemnation for
missing any of the numerous mandatory "meetings" each week,
excommunication for smoking and so on places so much pressure on the
individual that mental problems often develop.

(K) JWs - including children - are taught all in the outside world are
evil - the worldly ones who appear to be kind are simply part of a Satanic
trick to lure people out of "God's Organization". This produces all sorts
of persecution complexes and paranoia.

(L) JWs are forbidden to read or watch anything even remotely critical of
JWs on pain of excommunication. "Apostate literature" is "spiritual
pornography", JWs must have "nothing to do with" critics, and "will not be
curious about what such people have to say." {WT Mar 15 1996 17}.

(M) There is little time for calm reflection - frenzied spreading of the
Society's "Good News" before Jehovah destroys "this wicked system of
things" is uppermost at all times. Such single-mindedness also exacerbates
mental problems and delusions.

(N) JWs are overwhelmingly lower class - upper-middle-class or upper-class
JWs are virtually unheard of (see Pescor above). One branch overseer
stated to Montague that: "of 40,000 Witnesses, I know of only 2 families
that might be termed upper-middle class, but no one else. University
professors are almost totally unknown." Almost no intelligent or
well-educated people join the JWs - and those few who do, usually leave if
only because the dominant, controlling, conformist ideological hierarchy
is unbearable. Even JWs who correctly anticipated doctrinal shifts and
policy swings were condemned for doing so, and stayed condemned even after
the change! Montague reports the statement: "One of the things that
bothers me most about the Society is the incredibly arrogant attitude of
those at Bethel - refusing to listen to reason or even give credit for the
individual members having a mind .. it is predominantly a lower-class
religion with extremely few college graduates. Actually, virtually
everyone I know that is fairly well educated has left them.." The JW
environment is such that those with serious problems often do not socially
encounter intelligent people who could detect and help address the
problems.

(O) The sacrifices - loved ones, careers, opportunities - made by a JW
will, at times when the JW is disillusioned, become irrationally bitter
about what he chose to give up. The feeling of failure contributes to
mental problems - also failure at converting others, as the Society
acknowledges it spends 3,000+ proselytizing hours per baptism EVEN while
counting "easy" baptisms of JW children and dependents. Most JWs never
make a successful conversion of an outsider (which might take as much as
10,000 publishing hours - for a 10 publishing hrs/week JW, that is 20
years!).

(P) Another key causal factor in the high incidence of mental illness rate
among JWs is the discouragement of JWs from consulting or seeking
professional help (mainly, to avoid bad publicity for the cult), as can be
seen from this List and also W.S.Salisbury: 'Religion in American Culture:
A sociological interpretation' (Homewood, Illinois, Dorsey Press, 1965
202). Instead, submission to JW Elders (as prescribed in the headline 1975
quote) results in the application of one disciplinarian solution for all
mental problems: study and pray more, and comply more closely with the
Soceity's dictates (which are probably part or all of the problem). Elders
are taught that mental illness is caused either by sin or demonism, and
may probe the JW for more information - creating more fear and guilt - and
threaten expulsion/shunning or probation. Elders have no recognized
training in counselling ("janitors and brush salesmen" is how Montague
reports one JW viewed them) and often mistake natural defensiveness when
confronted with a lack of repentance. The mentally ill JW is thus unlikely
to get better.

(Q) People with mental problems, and also the unintelligent (a different
matter altogether) are FAR more likely to join the JWs in the first place
(Rylander and Spencer above) than "normal" people. The problems are likely
to get worse within the Organization (same source).

(R) The closed and hierarchical JW environment exacerbates JW-JW conflicts
and power struggles. As steam cannot be let off, with everyone spying on
everyone else, hostilities build up and may finally erupt into real
physical violence (evidenced by above average crime figures for JWs as
already seen) or bitterness - or else remain bottled up and frustrated
forever, giving more mental problems to the JW. A JW told Montague: "95%
of the Witnesses are very corrupt people - but that still does not mean it
is not God's organization".

(S) JWs are ACTIVELY TAUGHT that to HATE PEOPLE is good (in fact, divinely
commanded):
Watchtower October 1, 1952 pages 596-604:-
"Haters of God and His people [Jehovah's Witnesses] are to be hated .. We
must hate in the truest sense, which is to regard with extreme and active
aversion, to consider as loathsome, odious, filthy, to detest. Surely any
haters of God are not fit to live on His beautiful earth"

(T) JWs are ACTIVELY TAUGHT that LYING is commendable:
"[a lie is] 'a false statement by one to another one who is entitled to
hear and to know the truth, and which false statement tends to work injury
to the other'" {Riches p177, written by the President of the JWs}.
"LIE [definition] .. Lying generally involves saying something false to a
person who is entitled to know the truth and doing so with the intent to
deceive or to injure him or another person.. this does not mean that a
person is under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who
are not entitled to it. ... {Insight 2 p244-5}
"a person is not obligated to divulge truthful information" {WT Dec 15
1993 p25}
"The enemies [of Jehovah's Witnesses] did not deserve to learn the truth"
{WT Feb 1 1956 p80/86}
"No, she replied, and went on her way. Did she tell a lie? No, she did
not. She was not a liar. Rather, she was using theocratic war strategy,
hiding the truth by action and word for the sake of the ministry." {WT May
1 1957 p284-5}
"As a soldier of Christ he is in theocratic warfare and he must exercise
caution when dealing with God's foes. Thus the Scriptures show that for
the purpose of protecting the interests of God's cause, it is proper to
hide the truth from God's enemies." {WT Jun 1 1960 p352}

(U) JWs are taught to despise family members who turn away from the JWs:-
"We are not living today among theocratic nations where such members of
our fleshly family relationship could be EXTERMINATED for apostasy from
God and his theocratic organization, as was possible and was ORDERED ..
Thou shalt surely KILL him; THY HAND shall be first upon him to PUT HIM TO
DEATH.. Being limited by the laws of the
worldly nation in which we live .. we can take action against apostates
only to a certain extent." {WT Nov 15 1952, emphases mine}

(V) JWs are focussed on brutality and cultivated to be insanely
unreasonable by their official binding publications. The doctrine on rape
summarised below has often been maintained:
---------------------------------------------------------------
Per JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES' OFFICIAL TEACHINGS 3/8/74: JW ANSWER
Is the woman compelled to strongly Resist a rapist? [Yes]
Even if the rapist(s) is/are armed? Knife? Gun? [Yes]
Even if he threatened to kill if she did not submit? [Yes]
Would Jehovah's Laws be breached if she did not resist? [Yes]
Even in the last circumstance -"I'll kill you unless"? [Yes]
Even if she is actually in the process of being killed? [Yes]
If she fails in ANY of this, is she is a FORNICATOR? [Yes]
Is that per the OFFICIAL JEHOVAH'S WITNESS BIBLE? [Yes]
Are fornicators subject to JW's DISCIPLINARY ACTION? [Yes]
Is usual outcome where there is fornication, Removal? [Yes]
Is the person removed (DF'd) to be TOTALLY SHUNNED for
LIFE by all JWs (a grudging part-exception for very
close family, but even they must spiritually shun) [Yes]
Will another JW who breaks the shunning be SHUNNED? [Yes]
As JWs PREDOMINANTLY HAVE JW FRIENDS & CONTACTS, does
this SHUNNING have a very considerable bad effect? [Yes]
Has it been found to cause DEPRESSION even SUICIDES? [Yes]
Is SHUNNING a tool to CONTROL JWs and make them comply? [Yes]
Has the Poor Victim of Violent-Rape been raped AGAIN? [Yes]
---------------------------------------------------------------

In the Internet group alt.religion.jehovahs-witn, a JW asscoaite described
this policy as "compassionate"!

(X) JWs have often been encouraged to beat their children - and not just
with the hand, and HARD. Preferably not just with the hand. "the child
must suffer pain." {WT Aug 15 1963 p498}, "beat him with a rod" {WT Sep 1
1978 p5, May 1 1979 p30, Mar 1 1955 p136, You Can Live Forever 1982 p132},
"the lessons learned at mother's knee do not make as lasting an impression
as those learned while stretched across daddy's." {WT Jan 5 1954 p54-60}.
Evn "Modern parents, in this age of delinquent youngsters, can take a
lesson from the .. koala. When baby koalas 'are really naughty .. the
mother turns them over her knee and spanks them on their bottoms for
minutes on end with the flat of her hand, during which time their screams
are soul-rending." {WT Feb 1 1956 p95}. Beating for not paying attention
at JW meetings is recommended {WT Jun 15 1957 p373} .. and so on. Dozens
more examples are there.

(Y) JWs are trained to avoid "independent thinking". "Avoid Independent
Thinking .. Why is it so dangerous? Such thinking is an evidence of pride.
And the Bible says: 'Pride is before a crash, and a haughty spirit before
stumbling.' (Proverbs 16:18) If we get to thinking that we know better
than the organization .. No, we cannot!.. Fight against independent
thinking.. From the very outset of his rebellion Satan called into
question God's way of doing things. He promoted independent thinking.. How
is such independent thinking manifested? A common way is by questioning
the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization.. Yet certain
ones have professed to know better. They have rebelled against such
counsel and have done what is right in their own eyes." {WT Jan 15 1983
p22-7}. By this sort of teaching (many more examples in the List) that to
do right as one sees it is actually wrong, can but encourage evil and
mental illness.

(Z) "Although the overseers are imperfect men, there is no need for anyone
in the congregation to hold back from being submissive since it is
Jehovah's arrangement and he will hold the overseers responsible for their
actions." {OAOM 1983 p39} Many more examples in The List. Mental
submissiveness to injustice can lead to psychological problems galore.

These 26 reasons contribute to the abnormally high levels of mental
illness and violent crime among JWs.

Non-JWs: YOU PROBABLY HAVE NO CONCEPTION ON HOW BINDING THE OFFICIAL JW
TEACHINGS ARE ON THE BRAIN-WASHED CULT MEMBERS...

More Reading: Richard Hickman: 'The Mental Health of Jehovah's Witnesses;
Reflections of Twenty-Five Years' (Love Agape Ministries Press, Worthville
Ky 1984), David Reed: 'Worse than Waco - Jehovah's Witnesses hide a
tragedy' (Comments from the Friends, Soughton Ma 1993), Dr Jerry Bergman:
'The Problem of Mental Health and Jehovah's Witnesses' (Witnesses Inc,
Clayton Ca 1992), Dr Eli Chesen: Religion may be Hazardous to Your Health'
(Collier Books, N.Y. 1972), C Moxon: 'Religion in the Light of
Psychoanalysis' (The Psychoanalytic Review, Jan 1921 92-8), Werner Cohn:
'Jehovah's Witnesses as a Proletarian Movement' (The American Scholar Vol
24 1955 281-98), Steve Hassan: 'Combating Cult Mind Control' (Park St.
Press, 1990) Dr Jules Masserman: 'Faiths and Delusion in Psychotherapy'
(American Journal of Psychiatry Vol 110 1953 324-33)

CONCLUSION

The prevalence of mental illness among Jehovah's Witnesses is
significantly higher - up to FORTY TIMES HIGHER - than among the general
population, per ALL scientific studies encountered (and are more likely to
be involved in violent crimes).

JWs deny there is any problem at all, consider all this evidence to be
fake, proclaim they are the happiest and best adjusted people on earth and
are instructed by their "god" (the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society, the
Jehovah's Witnesses Organization) to avoid contact with mental health
professionals (who are derided).

There are about 15,000,000 JWs (and close associates, in the pipe-line to
becoming a JW) in the World.

When you hear the knock.. remember. THERE IS DANGER AT YOUR DOORSTEP.

Gerry Ford

unread,
Mar 11, 2008, 8:35:59 PM3/11/08
to

"Watchtower Aspostate" <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:fr6vak$h6q$1...@registered.motzarella.org...

> Rates of MENTAL ILLNESS & PARANOID DELUSIONS among Jehovah's Witnesses
> --------------------------------------------------------------------

> JWs deny there is any problem at all, consider all this evidence to be


> fake, proclaim they are the happiest and best adjusted people on earth and
> are instructed by their "god" (the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society, the
> Jehovah's Witnesses Organization) to avoid contact with mental health
> professionals (who are derided).
>
> There are about 15,000,000 JWs (and close associates, in the pipe-line to
> becoming a JW) in the World.
>
> When you hear the knock.. remember. THERE IS DANGER AT YOUR DOORSTEP.
>

I just can't imagine a more-flawed methodology of reading the bible than the
watchtower method. Mormons come close with their "Joseph Smith
Translation." My favorite JST verses come at the end of the 5 books of
Moses, where JS jr writes himself into the pentateuch. It would be
hilarious if it weren't sad.


--
Gerry Ford

"Anybody who says, that a high-speed collision with water is the same as
with concrete, likely has more experience with the former than the latter."


Watchtower Aspostate

unread,
Mar 11, 2008, 9:52:59 PM3/11/08
to

"Gerry Ford" <inv...@invalid.net> wrote in message
news:120527...@news.newsgroups.com...

>
> "Watchtower Aspostate" <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:fr6vak$h6q$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>> Rates of MENTAL ILLNESS & PARANOID DELUSIONS among Jehovah's Witnesses
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>> JWs deny there is any problem at all, consider all this evidence to be
>> fake, proclaim they are the happiest and best adjusted people on earth
>> and
>> are instructed by their "god" (the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society, the
>> Jehovah's Witnesses Organization) to avoid contact with mental health
>> professionals (who are derided).
>>
>> There are about 15,000,000 JWs (and close associates, in the pipe-line to
>> becoming a JW) in the World.
>>
>> When you hear the knock.. remember. THERE IS DANGER AT YOUR DOORSTEP.
>>
> I just can't imagine a more-flawed methodology of reading the bible than
> the watchtower method. Mormons come close with their "Joseph Smith
> Translation." My favorite JST verses come at the end of the 5 books of
> Moses, where JS jr writes himself into the pentateuch. It would be
> hilarious if it weren't sad.

It's probably safest to avoid them all.

Siteldawgnumber1

unread,
Mar 11, 2008, 10:30:34 PM3/11/08
to
"Watchtower Aspostate" <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote in
news:fr7d20$d9c$1...@registered.motzarella.org:

>
> "Gerry Ford" <inv...@invalid.net> wrote in message
> news:120527...@news.newsgroups.com...
>>
>> "Watchtower Aspostate" <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:fr6vak$h6q$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>>> Rates of MENTAL ILLNESS & PARANOID DELUSIONS among Jehovah's
>>> Witnesses
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> --
>>
>>> JWs deny there is any problem at all, consider all this evidence to
>>> be fake, proclaim they are the happiest and best adjusted people on
>>> earth and
>>> are instructed by their "god" (the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society,
>>> the Jehovah's Witnesses Organization) to avoid contact with mental
>>> health professionals (who are derided).
>>>
>>> There are about 15,000,000 JWs (and close associates, in the
>>> pipe-line to becoming a JW) in the World.
>>>
>>> When you hear the knock.. remember. THERE IS DANGER AT YOUR
>>> DOORSTEP.
>>>
>> I just can't imagine a more-flawed methodology of reading the bible
>> than the watchtower method. Mormons come close with their "Joseph
>> Smith Translation." My favorite JST verses come at the end of the 5
>> books of Moses, where JS jr writes himself into the pentateuch. It
>> would be hilarious if it weren't sad.
>
> It's probably safest to avoid them all.

Actually, the Book of Mormon is an interesting read. Quite funny and
entertaining in places, you know, with naked angels and that sort of
thing. Why a supreme being would hide knowledge that important under a
rock in upstate New York is beyond me, but then hey, maybe that's why I'm
not a supreme being. ;>D

Gerry Ford

unread,
Mar 12, 2008, 12:31:13 AM3/12/08
to

"Siteldawgnumber1" <Siteldaw...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A5EE088ED41DSi...@66.250.146.159...
The BOM an interesting read? BOM is a class they make you take at BYU. I
got a C while having gotten all A's otherwise. When I transfered next
semester to a school back east, I got credit for a philosophy class.

My statement about the "truth" of the BOM is try writing "and it came to
pass" in metal, and see how many times you do it before you give up.

Siteldawgnumber1

unread,
Mar 11, 2008, 11:17:51 PM3/11/08
to
"Gerry Ford" <inv...@invalid.net> wrote in
news:120529...@news.newsgroups.com:

>
> "Siteldawgnumber1" <Siteldaw...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9A5EE088ED41DSi...@66.250.146.159...
>> "Watchtower Aspostate" <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote in
>> news:fr7d20$d9c$1...@registered.motzarella.org:
>>
>>>
>>> "Gerry Ford" <inv...@invalid.net> wrote in message
>>> news:120527...@news.newsgroups.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Watchtower Aspostate" <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>>> news:fr6vak$h6q$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>>>>> Rates of MENTAL ILLNESS & PARANOID DELUSIONS among Jehovah's
>>>>> Witnesses
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------

>>>>> -- --

Lol...

I'll have to pass. ;>D

Watchtower Aspostate

unread,
Mar 11, 2008, 11:52:07 PM3/11/08
to

"Siteldawgnumber1" <Siteldaw...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A5EE088ED41DSi...@66.250.146.159...

I read the book of Mormon and agree. I also found the entire book absurd.

Watchtower Aspostate

unread,
Mar 11, 2008, 11:53:37 PM3/11/08
to

"Gerry Ford" <inv...@invalid.net> wrote in message
news:120529...@news.newsgroups.com...

It's such a fabrication of a few con men anyone who reads it can see right
through it.

Siteldawgnumber1

unread,
Mar 11, 2008, 11:29:40 PM3/11/08
to
"Watchtower Aspostate" <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote in
news:fr7k19$qc8$1...@registered.motzarella.org:

>
> "Siteldawgnumber1" <Siteldaw...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9A5EE088ED41DSi...@66.250.146.159...
>> "Watchtower Aspostate" <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote in
>> news:fr7d20$d9c$1...@registered.motzarella.org:
>>
>>>
>>> "Gerry Ford" <inv...@invalid.net> wrote in message
>>> news:120527...@news.newsgroups.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Watchtower Aspostate" <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>>> news:fr6vak$h6q$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>>>>> Rates of MENTAL ILLNESS & PARANOID DELUSIONS among Jehovah's
>>>>> Witnesses
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------

>>>>> -- --

>>>>
>>>>> JWs deny there is any problem at all, consider all this evidence
>>>>> to be fake, proclaim they are the happiest and best adjusted
>>>>> people on earth and
>>>>> are instructed by their "god" (the Watchtower Bible & Tract
>>>>> Society, the Jehovah's Witnesses Organization) to avoid contact
>>>>> with mental health professionals (who are derided).
>>>>>
>>>>> There are about 15,000,000 JWs (and close associates, in the
>>>>> pipe-line to becoming a JW) in the World.
>>>>>
>>>>> When you hear the knock.. remember. THERE IS DANGER AT YOUR
>>>>> DOORSTEP.
>>>>>
>>>> I just can't imagine a more-flawed methodology of reading the bible
>>>> than the watchtower method. Mormons come close with their "Joseph
>>>> Smith Translation." My favorite JST verses come at the end of the
>>>> 5 books of Moses, where JS jr writes himself into the pentateuch.
>>>> It would be hilarious if it weren't sad.
>>>
>>> It's probably safest to avoid them all.
>>
>> Actually, the Book of Mormon is an interesting read. Quite funny and
>> entertaining in places, you know, with naked angels and that sort of
>> thing. Why a supreme being would hide knowledge that important under
>> a rock in upstate New York is beyond me, but then hey, maybe that's
>> why I'm not a supreme being. ;>D
>
> I read the book of Mormon and agree. I also found the entire book
> absurd.

Sartre was, I'm sure, envious. It was probably an inspiration.

TruthCheck

unread,
Mar 12, 2008, 12:45:51 AM3/12/08
to
It seems to be popular. This guy thinks he owns 50% of reality.

Bible Codes of a new kind. Not the X-Team, but the XP-Team.

http://www.outersecrets.com/real/biblecode2.htm

http://www.outersecrets.com/real/biblecode_shroud_turin.htm

Siteldawgnumber1

unread,
Mar 12, 2008, 12:14:03 AM3/12/08
to
TruthCheck <flop...@idirect.com> wrote in news:bc3ee47c-2d60-406f-9b87-
3b1c78...@c33g2000hsd.googlegroups.com:

Yes, and once upon a time AOL'ers were ridiculed. That was before Google
came along.

Did that help?

Kathy C

unread,
Mar 12, 2008, 12:51:36 AM3/12/08
to

"Siteldawgnumber1" <Siteldaw...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A5EE88CA1AESi...@66.250.146.159...

>
> I'll have to pass. ;>D

I see you're using Shared-Secrets. It's that a paid news server now? It was
free at one time.

Siteldawgnumber1

unread,
Mar 12, 2008, 12:40:09 AM3/12/08
to
"Kathy C" <Kath...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:47d7613f$0$1342$834e...@reader.greatnowhere.com:

No it's not a paid server now, well it was/maybe still is. When AOL
dumped their Usenet access (the swine, with no notice mind you) Robb was
offering free accounts, so I signed up. I also signed up when Mike
Horwath offered free access with posting to ReadFreeNews, but that has
apparently gone away. Between all that and AOL dumping newsgroup access,
I had a paid account with news.individual.net. Anyway, Shared-Secrets it
is at this time. ;>D

All praise to Robb!

Kathy C

unread,
Mar 12, 2008, 1:51:14 AM3/12/08
to

"Siteldawgnumber1" <Siteldaw...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A5F25B6C7C1Si...@66.250.146.159...

Yeah, he seems like a really nice guy.


>

"john p"

unread,
Mar 12, 2008, 2:47:38 AM3/12/08
to
On Mar 11, 7:52 pm, "Watchtower Aspostate" <inva...@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
> "Siteldawgnumber1" <Siteldawgnumb...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:Xns9A5EE088ED41DSi...@66.250.146.159...
>
>
>
> > "Watchtower Aspostate" <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote in
> >news:fr7d20$d9c$1...@registered.motzarella.org:
>
> >> "Gerry Ford" <inva...@invalid.net> wrote in message
> >>news:120527...@news.newsgroups.com...
>
> >>> "Watchtower Aspostate" <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message

It is only absurd to rational people.

bob young

unread,
Mar 12, 2008, 4:46:02 AM3/12/08
to

Watchtower Aspostate wrote:

> Rates of MENTAL ILLNESS & PARANOID DELUSIONS among Jehovah's Witnesses
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Many of us here have direct anecdotal evidence of how many JWs are, well,
> simply put - *N*U*T*S*. Extremely self-centered - they think the whole
> universe LITERALLY revolves around their door-to-door harassment of people
> (the Almighty Creator of the Universe is waiting for this work to conclude,
> and then He will "release" Armageddon!!!!).

All religions have this effect on people to some extent,
it is just that JW's are a little more paranoid than the rest.

Gerry Ford

unread,
Mar 12, 2008, 7:11:30 AM3/12/08
to

""john p"" <john....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7a734add-64a9-4b4f...@u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com...

I've read the _The Stranger_ and 2nd Nephi.

One is literature. The other is a bunch of words that sounds kind of like
Isaiah.

One is absurd. The other, despite repeated attempts, I've never made it
through.

Pastor Frank

unread,
Mar 12, 2008, 5:31:59 AM3/12/08
to
"Watchtower Aspostate" <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:fr7d20$d9c$1...@registered.motzarella.org...

> "Gerry Ford" <inv...@invalid.net> wrote in message
> news:120527...@news.newsgroups.com...
>> "Watchtower Aspostate" <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:fr6vak$h6q$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>>>
>>> Rates of MENTAL ILLNESS & PARANOID DELUSIONS among Jehovah's Witnesses
>>> JWs deny there is any problem at all, consider all this evidence to be
>>> fake, proclaim they are the happiest and best adjusted people on earth
>>> and
>>> are instructed by their "god" (the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society, the
>>> Jehovah's Witnesses Organization) to avoid contact with mental health
>>> professionals (who are derided).
>>> There are about 15,000,000 JWs (and close associates, in the pipe-line
>>> to
>>> becoming a JW) in the World.
>>> When you hear the knock.. remember. THERE IS DANGER AT YOUR DOORSTEP.
>>
>> I just can't imagine a more-flawed methodology of reading the bible than
>> the watchtower method. Mormons come close with their "Joseph Smith
>> Translation." My favorite JST verses come at the end of the 5 books of
>> Moses, where JS jr writes himself into the pentateuch. It would be
>> hilarious if it weren't sad.
>
> It's probably safest to avoid them all.
>
Don't!!! Unless you yourself are not solidly grounded in your faith.
It's Christian to invite them in for a cup of coffee and pray with them. Be
aware however, that they will likely not accept your invitation to pray. In
that case give them your blessings and let them go.


紐. L. Measures

unread,
Mar 12, 2008, 10:33:13 AM3/12/08
to
In article <1f078$47d7b93d$d1d89a4e$18...@PRIMUS.CA>, "Pastor Frank"
<P...@christfirst.edu> wrote:

** but not without the fun of asking 'em about the somewhat less than
accurate WTBATS prediction for Armageddon in 1975.

--
R.L. Measures. 805-386-3734, www.somis.org

Ips-Switch

unread,
Mar 12, 2008, 11:12:59 AM3/12/08
to

".R. L. Measures" <2...@vc.net> wrote in message
news:2-1203080...@10.0.1.199...

They're taught to LIE and blame the victims - those who suffered most by
this failed prediction! The GB never did apologize or take responsibility
for any of the failed predictions for Armageddon. They always found a way to
blame "over eager" elders or followers. Many don't know they're lying as
they joined post 1975.

Message has been deleted

Siteldawgnumber1

unread,
Mar 12, 2008, 10:24:41 PM3/12/08
to
"\"john p\"" <john....@gmail.com> wrote in
news:7a734add-64a9-4b4f...@u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com:

> On Mar 11, 7:52 pm, "Watchtower Aspostate" <inva...@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
>> "Siteldawgnumber1" <Siteldawgnumb...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:Xns9A5EE088ED41DSi...@66.250.146.159...
>>
>>
>>
>> > "Watchtower Aspostate" <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote in
>> >news:fr7d20$d9c$1...@registered.motzarella.org:
>>
>> >> "Gerry Ford" <inva...@invalid.net> wrote in message
>> >>news:120527...@news.newsgroups.com...
>>
>> >>> "Watchtower Aspostate" <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>> >>>news:fr6vak$h6q$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>> >>>> Rates of MENTAL ILLNESS & PARANOID DELUSIONS among Jehovah's
>> >>>> Witnesses
>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------

>> >>>> ---- --

A high-speed collision with water or the Book of Mormon?

Siteldawgnumber1

unread,
Mar 12, 2008, 10:25:33 PM3/12/08
to
"Gerry Ford" <inv...@invalid.net> wrote in
news:120531...@news.newsgroups.com:

Well, you know, Joe Smith did the best he could with what he had.

Siteldawgnumber1

unread,
Mar 12, 2008, 10:27:34 PM3/12/08
to
"Pastor Frank" <P...@christfirst.edu> wrote in
news:1f078$47d7b93d$d1d89a4e$18...@PRIMUS.CA:

Would it be un-Christian to throw a cup of coffee at them?

> Be aware however, that they will likely not accept your
> invitation to pray. In that case give them your blessings and let them
> go.

Very kind and Christian of you, Frank.

TruthCheck

unread,
Mar 14, 2008, 8:41:13 PM3/14/08
to
http://www.outersecrets.com/real/biblecode2.htm
http://www.outersecrets.com/real/biblecode_shroud_turin.htm

Hmmmmm.

Well.... if there is a God, and the God exists elsewhere, call it a
higher plane of reality, and so does Satan exist but in his negative
higher plane of reality, then both of these places are real and are
therefore part of the complete truth.

If Satan has some vicious plans, then he would want none of us to know
the truth about them.

Now over time..... we have become less dependant upon beliefs, and
have uncovered more truths, thus the axis of the mind is moving
further away from being in-line with beliefs, and is rotating closer
toward being in-line with truths instead.

Thus if some of today's people are beginning to align their minds very
very close being in-line with only truths, then they have no choice
but to end up tapping into Satan's higher plane since it is part of
the complete truth. Satan would then set these poor people up to
appear to be on the nutty side, even though they are not, thus Satan's
plans remain out of site since no one believes a single word spoken by
his new victims who have tapped into his world.

And so people are kept away from truths, thus they remain as
believers / disbelievers, thus if what I have just said is true, then
you wont believe it since it sits outside the limited scope of mere
beliefs.

0 new messages