Campaign against violence: Messiah vs "common sense"?
guardian Snow
> On Nov 19, 7:07 pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
It should be noted that what I say here are things extremely hard to
put into practice in our own life because we must disregard what we
know as “common sense” for the teachings of Messiah.
> > “I am not only a pacifist but a militant pacifist. I am willing to
> > fight for peace. Nothing will end war unless the people themselves
> > refuse to go to war.”
> > Albert Einstein
> I hesitate to enter this conversation, mainly because my views on the
> subject are not as clear to me as they should be. I abhor violence and
> war. But I also understand it is evil to allow injustice when it is
> possible to stop it.
First off, I’m glad to see that you do have the courage to enter your
opinion in this discussion. Violence is a serious issue and I’m
grateful to discuss the topic of somebody of your caliber of faith,
even if we disagree on topics.
I suppose it becomes necessary to define the type of violent behavior,
defensive and aggressive. Defensive violence such the apprehension of
criminals by law enforcement should always be respected in my opinion
but the professional police officer with proper tools at his/her
disposal should hardly ever need to employ deadly force.
>If someone is attacking the innocent, is it wrong
> to use violence against violence unselfishly?
The law says that equal force for the detaining and apprehension of
criminals is required.
> The stereotypical
> situation is a man defending his wife and children. Should he allow
> them to be harmed?
You assume that violence is the only solution to defending your family
because of your conditioning but this is why Americans believe in the
right to bear arms with the idea that intruders can be held at the
threat of gun point without the need for actual violence.
Mat 26:52 Then יהושע [Yehoshua] said to him, “Return your sword to its
place, for all who take the sword shall die by the sword.
>If he uses violence he may also be laying down his
> life for his family. Is that evil or is it the highest form of love?
Mat 10:37 “He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of
Me, and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.
No, according to scriptures, the highest form of love is love of
Elohim Yahweh which is always put first before the love of neighbor as
the second greatest command. It’s assumed you love your own:
Mat 5:46 “For if you love those loving you, what reward have you? Are
the tax collectors not doing the same too?
The issues that you are raising are according to our secular beliefs,
not are religious beliefs which is why I believe you have such a hard
time with the issue.
> As Jesus said, greater love has no man than to lay down his life for
> his friends.
Lay down his life in the example of the Messiah didn’t include him
attacking anybody in self defense and you are attempting to reason
from your own perspective. Can you imagine Yehoshua the soldier
attacking anybody even for his own mother? His entire ministry was
non violence:
Mat 5:39 but I say to you, do not resist the wicked. But whoever slaps
you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.
Can you imagine the Messiah attacking any person for any reason?
> The American national anthem says in a verse seldom sung:
>
> "So conquer we must, when our cause it is just, and this be our motto,
> in God is our trust". - from a verse of the Star Spangled Banner.
>
> Interestingly, the self-declared "militant pacificist" quoted above
> was also the author of a letter to FDR concerning development of the
> first atom bomb. Einstein the pacifist knew that if the Allies did not
> have the bomb first, tyranny would then conquer freedom.
>
> The Bible tells us there is a time for every purpose under heaven.
> That includes times of peace and times of war. I hate war.
It does not say every purpose is righteous or that these times are a
call for your action. You are adding your own definition to the
times. Just because there is a time for war does not mean I should
participate, only that these things happen in their seasons.
> Any sane
> person should. But common sense declares that complete refusal to act
> with force is not the way to love those who cannot defend themselves.
In reading what you said, “common sense” stood out to me and the
knowledge of Yehoshua is not common because you are called to a higher
standard as priest and sovereigns of Elohim.
1Pe 2:5 you also, as living stones, are being built up, a spiritual
house, a set-apart priesthood, to offer up spiritual slaughter
offerings acceptable to Elohim through יהושע [Yehoshua] Messiah.
The question one such as yourself should be asking is “What would
Jesus do?” and you basically just called the Messiah INSANE! In
asking that question, do you think you would find the Messiah watching
violent movies and television? Do you think Yehoshua would be at the
next opening of Friday the 13th part 2 in 3-D or Saw or Nightmare on
Elm Street 2010? When Peter sought to defend the innocent Messiah,
did he not tell him to put away the sword and he did not resist evil
even though he had authority to call down all the messengers of the
heavens, including what you know as the “angel of death” to fight for
him and still he willingly gave the example to suffer like a lamb led
to slaughter….
> It is unjust to turn ones back on violence to the innocent. So I
> believe there must be causes worth fighting for.
Ever seen sheep fight back when a lamb’s neck is being sliced open
right before them?
1Pe 2:21 For to this you were called, because Messiah also suffered
for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps,
Is it your accusation that Elohim does not protect the innocent? I
found no example of the Messiah fighting with anybody. The closest
found in scriptures is:
Joh 2:15 And having made a whip of cords, He drove them all out of the
Set-apart Place, with the sheep and the oxen, and poured out the
moneychangers’ coins and overturned the tables.
I would point out that it doesn’t say he whipped the people and this
could just as easily have been that he snapped it at them to drive
them out and he used non-lethal force to do it.
> Very tough topic. Those are some of my thoughts.
You’ve got that right brother! I am so grateful that you had the
courage to inject those thoughts with honesty. Think long and hard
about that because unfortunately there are no applications of the New
Testament that directly speak to crime and war and the closest I can
determine to serve is:
Mat 10:16 “See, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves.
Therefore be wise as serpents and innocent as doves.
In determining how our behavior should be we should consider the
behavior of sheep!
Flee, not fight
Sheep are a prey animal. When they are faced with danger, their
natural instinct is to flee not fight. Their strategy is to use
avoidance and rapid flight to avoid being eaten.
Safety in numbers
After fleeing, sheep will reform their group and look at the predator.
They use their natural herding instinct to band together for safety. A
sheep that is by itself is vulnerable to attack.
Never a straight line
Sheep tracks are never straight. The winding of trails allows sheep to
observe their backside first with one eye, then the other. Sheep can
spot dogs or other perceived forms of danger from 1,200 to 1,500 yards
away.
Keen senses
Sheep have excellent senses. Their wide angle of vision allows them to
see predators. They can direct their ears to the direction of sound.
They are very sensitive to what different predators smell like.
Pain
Sheep have an amazing tolerance for pain. They do not show pain,
because if they do, they will be more vulnerable to predators that
look for those who are weak or injured.
http://www.sheep101.info/bahavior.html
"What we plant in the soil of contemplation, we shall reap in the
harvest of action."
Meister Eckhart
Num 6:24 “Yahweh bless you and guard you;
Num 6:25 Yahweh make His face shine upon you, and show favour to you;
Num 6:26 Yahweh lift up His face upon you, and give you peace.” ’
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
“Begin to see yourself as a soul with a body rather than a body with a
soul.”
Wayne Dyer
Exo 20:7 “You do not bring the Name of 'Yud-Heh-Vav-Heh [translated
Yahweh] your Elohim to naught, for Yahweh does not leave the one
unpunished who brings His Name to naught.
Respond directly:
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/messianic_Yehoshua/
singin4free
>snip<
For the record, below is my whole post from the other thread.
I hesitate to enter this conversation, mainly because my views on the
subject are not as clear to me as they should be. I abhor violence and
war. But I also understand it is evil to allow injustice when it is
possible to stop it. If someone is attacking the innocent, is it wrong
to use violence against violence unselfishly? The stereotypical
situation is a man defending his wife and children. Should he allow
them to be harmed? If he uses violence he may also be laying down his
life for his family. Is that evil or is it the highest form of love?
As Jesus said, greater love has no man than to lay down his life for
his friends. The American national anthem says in a verse seldom sung:
"So conquer we must, when our cause it is just, and this be our motto,
in God is our trust". - from a verse of the Star Spangled Banner.
Interestingly, the self-declared "militant pacificist" quoted above
was also the author of a letter to FDR concerning development of the
first atom bomb. Einstein the pacifist knew that if the Allies did not
have the bomb first, tyranny would then conquer freedom.
The Bible tells us there is a time for every purpose under heaven.
That includes times of peace and times of war. I hate war. Any sane
person should. But common sense declares that complete refusal to act
with force is not the way to love those who cannot defend themselves.
It is unjust to turn one's back on violence to the innocent. So I
believe there must be causes worth fighting for. But those causes are
rare indeed and not every cause is that kind of cause. We should not
be willing to go to war for the sake of the whims of politicians
alone. The reasons must be clear, the cause must be just and the need
must be great. Is there really any difference between those
firefighters who enter a burning building with axes and hoses at risk
to themselves to save lives and those who carry a weapon into battle
for the same reason, i.e. to rescue people from tyranny? I don't see
much difference, except that often times the moral reasons for an
armed conflict are obscure to those sent to do the job. The war
fighter is one who gives of him or herself. So the blame for an
immoral war must lie with those who send them. We cannot do without
our armed forces, because we live in a dangerous world. Sometimes a
soldier may be given an order he must refuse. That is hard test of
character, but with God's grace, he does what is right. When God's
commands conflict with those of men, it is better to obey God rather
than men.
singin4free
I won't oppose Snow on the non-violence issue, but I would like to
point out some things. Apparently Snow is advocating complete non-
violence, which is something that many Christians agree with. However,
his version of it stems from his belief that Jesus merely set an
example by allowing himself to be crucified, as opposed to being a
sacrificial offering for sin. Jesus did much more than just set an
example of non-resistance to violence on the cross. He did the dying
for us so that we would not have to suffer eternal damnation. Snow
finds his righteousness in works of righteousness that he has done,
rather than the finished work of Jesus accomplished upon the cross
once and for all. Snow opposes the thought of a blood sacrifice,
claiming that it violates the Torah. But Isaiah tells us that the
Messiah would be wounded for our transgressions, bruised for our
iniquities, and that the chastisement of our *peace* would be upon
him, so that by his stripes we are healed. Peter tells us this very
verse applies to Yeshua the Messiah. Jesus Christ died for our sins.
Snow quotes Peter as saying we should follow the example of Christ.
1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also
suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his
steps:
1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
1Pe 2:23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he
suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth
righteously:
But he should not forget the most important part - the reason for our
desire as believers in Yeshua to live peacefully among the world of
unbelievers -
1Pe 2:24 Who his own self ***bare our sins in his own body on the
tree***, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness:
by whose stripes ye were healed.
1Pe 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto
the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
guardian Snow
> desire as believers in Yeshua to live peacefully among the world of
> unbelievers -
>
> 1Pe 2:24 Who his own self ***bare our sins in his own body on the
> tree***, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness:
> by whose stripes ye were healed.
> 1Pe 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto
> the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
All your dogmatic views are fine unless you are saying that you have
no need to follow his example and be willing to lay down your own life
for your belief as we know even his disciples did.
The challenge for you is to find a single verse of scriptures that
supports your view of the need for any violence at any point in your
walk with Messiah. The problem you are going to run into is that if
you say you should defend the child that is about to be murdered by a
sociopath, you are using an application of the Torah and must
acknowledge it in effect.
No new testament teaching tells you to defend anything, even the
helpless are left for slaughter by the standards set solely by
Messiah.
You speak of righteousness and doing what is right but then attempt to
refute me with dogma that says another man is your righteousness...
which means that it is better to obey your master and leave the child
to his fate rather then attempt to apply the law which you have
claimed no part in.
Rev 22:11 “He who does wrong, let him do more wrong; he who is filthy,
let him be more filthy; he who is righteous, let him be more
righteous; he who is set-apart, let him be more set-apart.
In taking any action against the murderer, you become the judge of
this man the moment you have initiated any attempt to set the course
of righteousness by your own hand.
Mat 7:1 “Do not judge, lest you be judged.
Mat 7:2 “For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged. And
with the same measure you use, it shall be measured to you.
Is it wrong for the murderer to kill children? Are you his judge? Is
it in your hands to apply the law which is the only place in all of
scriptures that teaches us an eye for an eye and teaches us the
judgment of Elohim?
1Pe 2:18 Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear, not only
to the good and gentle, but also to the crooked ones.
Clearly you are to subject your will to even those who are evil
according to the New Testament:
1Pe 2:19 For this is favour, if because of conscience toward Elohim
anyone bears up under grief, suffering unrighteously.
1Pe 2:20 For what credit is there in enduring a beating when you sin?
But if you suffer for doing good and you endure, this finds favour
with Elohim.
Deu 17:12 “And the man who acts arrogantly, so as not to listen to the
priest who stands to serve there before Yahweh your Elohim, or to the
judge, that man shall die. So you shall purge the evil from IsraEL.
We have ONE JUDGE and ONE CREATOR who will judge all, don’t try to
think it’s you. Be Humble.
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
Respond directly:
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/messianic_Yehoshua/
The heart of another is a dark forest, always, no matter how close it
has been to one's own.
Willa Cather
An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation,
nor does truth become error because nobody sees it.
Mohandas Gandhi
http://www.isr-messianic.org/ <- download the scriptures free
http://messianicyehoshua.googlegroups.com/web/RNKJV.zip <--free
download of the Restored Names King James Version
Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other
time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are the change that
we seek.
Barack Obama
Linda Lee
Yes, sheep are harmless...
Mat 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves:
be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
But the analogy of sheep to believers is because of the following
verses relating how sheep will follow their own shepherd whose voice
they recognize; the believers' shepherd being God (incarnate or
otherwise):
Psa 78:52 But [GOD] made his own people to go forth like sheep, and
guided them in the wilderness like a flock.
Psa 95:7 For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and
the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice,
Eze 34:5 And they were scattered, because there is no shepherd: and
they became meat to all the beasts of the field, when they were
scattered.
Eze 34:6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every
high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth,
and none did search or seek after them.
Eze 34:7 Therefore, ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;
Eze 34:8 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely because my flock
became a prey, and my flock became meat to every beast of the field,
because there was no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my
flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock;
Eze 34:9 Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;
Eze 34:10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against the
shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them
to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed
themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth,
that they may not be meat for them.
PROPHECY OF GOD INCARNATE AS YAHASHUA` THE MESSIAH:
Eze 34:11 For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I, even I, will both
search my sheep, and seek them out.
Eze 34:12 As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is
among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and
will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in
the cloudy and dark day.
MESSIAH AS THE SHEPHERD:
Joh 10:4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before
them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
Joh 10:5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him:
for they know not the voice of strangers.
Joh 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of
mine.
Joh 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I
said unto you.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow
me:
Rod
>> But he should not forget the most important part - the reason for our
>> desire as believers in Yeshua to live peacefully among the world of
>> unbelievers -
>>
>> 1Pe 2:24 Who his own self ***bare our sins in his own body on the
>> tree***, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness:
>> by whose stripes ye were healed.
>> 1Pe 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto
>> the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
>
> All your dogmatic views are fine unless you are saying that you have
> no need to follow his example and be willing to lay down your own life
> for your belief as we know even his disciples did.
>
> The challenge for you is to find a single verse of scriptures that
> supports your view of the need for any violence at any point in your
> walk with Messiah.
I disagree, and here is why...
Mat 10:34 Think not that I came to send peace on the earth:
I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Very plainly, YHVH admits that He brought war to the world
by way of Christ, good against the evil
Luk 22:36 And he said unto them, But now, he that hath a purse,
let him take it, and likewise a wallet; and he that hath none,
let him sell his cloak, and buy a sword.
These verses stand by themselves without interpretation,
and are plainly clear as to their meaning.
The problem you are going to run into is that if
> you say you should defend the child that is about to be murdered by a
> sociopath, you are using an application of the Torah and must
> acknowledge it in effect.
>
> No new testament teaching tells you to defend anything, even the
> helpless are left for slaughter by the standards set solely by
> Messiah.
>
> You speak of righteousness and doing what is right but then attempt to
> refute me with dogma that says another man is your righteousness...
> which means that it is better to obey your master and leave the child
> to his fate rather then attempt to apply the law which you have
> claimed no part in.
>
> Rev 22:11 �He who does wrong, let him do more wrong; he who is filthy,
> let him be more filthy; he who is righteous, let him be more
> righteous; he who is set-apart, let him be more set-apart.
>
> In taking any action against the murderer, you become the judge of
> this man the moment you have initiated any attempt to set the course
> of righteousness by your own hand.
>
> Mat 7:1 �Do not judge, lest you be judged.
> Mat 7:2 �For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged. And
> with the same measure you use, it shall be measured to you.
>
> Is it wrong for the murderer to kill children? Are you his judge? Is
> it in your hands to apply the law which is the only place in all of
> scriptures that teaches us an eye for an eye and teaches us the
> judgment of Elohim?
>
> 1Pe 2:18 Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear, not only
> to the good and gentle, but also to the crooked ones.
>
> Clearly you are to subject your will to even those who are evil
> according to the New Testament:
>
> 1Pe 2:19 For this is favour, if because of conscience toward Elohim
> anyone bears up under grief, suffering unrighteously.
> 1Pe 2:20 For what credit is there in enduring a beating when you sin?
> But if you suffer for doing good and you endure, this finds favour
> with Elohim.
>
> Deu 17:12 �And the man who acts arrogantly, so as not to listen to the
> priest who stands to serve there before Yahweh your Elohim, or to the
> judge, that man shall die. So you shall purge the evil from IsraEL.
>
> We have ONE JUDGE and ONE CREATOR who will judge all, don�t try to
> think it�s you. Be Humble.
>
> Shalom,
> *��)
> �.�� �.�*��) �.�*�)
> (�.�� (�.� (Snow(.�.�*��)
Linda Lee
You're talking about vigilantism, which is illegal in America.
>
> Mat 7:1 “Do not judge, lest you be judged.
> Mat 7:2 “For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged. And
> with the same measure you use, it shall be measured to you.
>
> Is it wrong for the murderer to kill children? Are you his judge? Is
> it in your hands to apply the law which is the only place in all of
> scriptures that teaches us an eye for an eye and teaches us the
> judgment of Elohim?
Again, you're talking about vigilantism, which is illegal in America.
You take these difficult complicated subjects and try to simplify them
so much it ends up being idiocy. The way you're talking, murderers
should remain free to commit more murders.
>
> 1Pe 2:18 Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear, not only
> to the good and gentle, but also to the crooked ones.
In America, the "masters", i.e. rulers, hold court and punish those
who commit violent crimes against others.
>
> Clearly you are to subject your will to even those who are evil
> according to the New Testament:
>
> 1Pe 2:19 For this is favour, if because of conscience toward Elohim
> anyone bears up under grief, suffering unrighteously.
> 1Pe 2:20 For what credit is there in enduring a beating when you sin?
> But if you suffer for doing good and you endure, this finds favour
> with Elohim.
>
> Deu 17:12 “And the man who acts arrogantly, so as not to listen to the
> priest who stands to serve there before Yahweh your Elohim, or to the
> judge, that man shall die. So you shall purge the evil from IsraEL.
>
Deuteronomy is talking about people coming before a human judge due to
the consequences of their actions.
> We have ONE JUDGE and ONE CREATOR who will judge all, don’t try to
> think it’s you. Be Humble.
When are you going to quit being a hypocrite and retract your judgment
of me as a whore, a Jezebel witch, and a murderer? Never? Apparently
you need a lesson in being "Humble" yourself.
Rod
>> let him be more filthy; he who is righteous, let him be more
>> righteous; he who is set-apart, let him be more set-apart.
>>
>> In taking any action against the murderer, you become the judge of
>> this man the moment you have initiated any attempt to set the course
>> of righteousness by your own hand.
>
> You're talking about vigilantism, which is illegal in America.
In a sense, yes. But doing it in defense of another is
not a sin. Standing by and doing nothing is wrong.
>
>> Mat 7:1 �Do not judge, lest you be judged.
>> Mat 7:2 �For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged. And
>> with the same measure you use, it shall be measured to you.
>>
>> Is it wrong for the murderer to kill children? Are you his judge? Is
>> it in your hands to apply the law which is the only place in all of
>> scriptures that teaches us an eye for an eye and teaches us the
>> judgment of Elohim?
>
> Again, you're talking about vigilantism, which is illegal in America.
Vigilantism per se is illegal, not the defense of yourself
or another.
> You take these difficult complicated subjects and try to simplify them
> so much it ends up being idiocy. The way you're talking, murderers
> should remain free to commit more murders.
>
>> 1Pe 2:18 Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear, not only
>> to the good and gentle, but also to the crooked ones.
>
> In America, the "masters", i.e. rulers, hold court and punish those
> who commit violent crimes against others.
Only "if" they are apprehended. Many times some of the worst criminals
get off because of a good lawyer.
guardian Snow
> Only "if" they are apprehended. Many times some of the worst criminals
> get off because of a good lawyer.
That is an illusion. Many times criminals get off because of the
Freemasonry conspiricy... You can shake on that:) I hope you are
having a good day.. I'm sorry you are getting frustrated by the
behaviour of some people but they can't help themselves...
“Let it go.” It's not important and when you have nothing to defend,
the accuser has nothing to attack. The way of the “peaceful warrior”
is to defend and survive, not to attack. Ignore the insulting tongue;
duck the provoking blow, run from the assault of the strong. Are
these the actions of a coward? The wild boar runs from the tiger.
Knowing that each are well armed naturally with deadly strength and
may kill the other, by running he saves his own life, and that of the
tiger. This is not cowardice; it is the love of life. He who attacks
must vanquish. He who defends must merely survive.
Mat 10:16 “See, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves.
Therefore be wise as serpents and innocent as doves.
Num 6:24 “Yahweh bless you and guard you;
Num 6:25 Yahweh make His face shine upon you, and show favour to you;
Num 6:26 Yahweh lift up His face upon you, and give you peace.” ’
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
'Men have forgotten this truth,' said the fox. 'But you must not
forget it. You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed.'
And now here is my secret, a very simple secret; it is only with the
heart that one can see rightly, what is essential is invisible to the
eye.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery
“Begin to see yourself as a soul with a body rather than a body with a
soul.”
Wayne Dyer
Exo 20:7 “You do not bring the Name of 'Yud-Heh-Vav-Heh [translated
Yahweh] your Elohim to naught, for Yahweh does not leave the one
unpunished who brings His Name to naught.
Respond directly:
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/messianic_Yehoshua/
Rod
> On Nov 22, 4:59 am, Rod <spa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Only "if" they are apprehended. Many times some of the worst criminals
>> get off because of a good lawyer.
>
> That is an illusion. Many times criminals get off because of the
> Freemasonry conspiricy... You can shake on that:) I hope you are
> having a good day.. I'm sorry you are getting frustrated by the
> behaviour of some people but they can't help themselves...
I'm frustrated by the nature that hides in my ancestry. I keep
getting in my way.
Linda Lee
>
>
> Mat 10:16 “See, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves.
> Therefore be wise as serpents and innocent as doves.
Prophets don't have apostles, so why do you quote the Messiah's
instructions to his apostles when you falsely claim the Messiah was
"only a prophet" and you certainly do not act as a preacher of his
gospel, the good news of salvation through him?
guardian Snow
One needs to only listen and hear for an answer to be given.
singin4free
First, Snow likes to use the word"dogma" to insult people. I suppose
he considers himself a superior "free thinker". He fancies that he has
been able to rearrange the pieces of what he thinks is the gospel
puzzle so that they make sense to him. The problem is his gospel
puzzle looks more like a Picasso than a Michelangelo. The ears are
where the nose should be and the mouth is where the ear should be. He
has his masterpiece of his own making, a new gospel that opposes the
tradition passed down to us from the apostles for 2000 years. We are
told in scripture to hold fast to what we have heard from the
beginning, meaning, the gospel preached by the apostles. This is not
blind adherence to dogma. It is what we are commanded to do.
Second, he is trying to pull a clever trick with this non-violence
doctrine. I doubt he believes in it himself. He simply wants to trap
Christians with their own scriptures and by their own love for peace,
into some kind of admission that salvation is not by grace but by
works. If he can get Christians to admit that they feel obligated to
save a child from a murderer, then he claims this can only be
justified in the Old Testament, so they must accept that the Law is
still in effect. This kind of trickery was typical of the Pharisees
who came to try and trap Jesus, so it shows you who he is descended
from. In fact Jesus told us that no one has greater love than to lay
down his life for his friends. This can mean taking the punishment
they deserved as he did for our sins (which Snow denies) or, it can
mean that a man dies defending a child or his family. Snow says it
cannot mean this, but it can, there is no qualification in the
statement that says it doesn't. Justification for love is not needed.
If I love, I protect and nurture, not stand idly by and watch then be
harmed. The New Testament preaches love. When Jesus comes again it
will be to save those he loves and destroy those who tried to harm
them. He will be at the head of an army. Therefore we know that armed
use of force for good is not just Old Testament, it is also New
Testament. Snow is up to tricks here. This is not about anti-violence
at all. It's about replacing the redemption of the cross with
salvation by our own works. Christians believe in good works. But
works flow from the heart of one who has been saved by grace. That is
the gospel preached by the apostles that Snow calls "dogma". For him
it is foolishness.
guardian Snow
It is only an insult if you consider it to be but it is not intended
to be this way on my part.
Dogma
DOGMA, n. [Gr., to think; L.] A settled opinion; a principle, maxim or
tenet; a doctrinal notion, particularly in matters of faith and
philosophy; as the dogmas of the church
Nothing in it's definition implies an insult so if you take it to mean
an insult it is how you have defined it and not the excepted
definition.
>We are
> told in scripture to hold fast to what we have heard from the
> beginning, meaning, the gospel preached by the apostles. This is not
> blind adherence to dogma. It is what we are commanded to do.
This is not the beginning. The beginning is the Genesis:
Gen 1:1 In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth.
You have let go of what was from the beginning and redefined it to
your own understanding.
> Second, he is trying to pull a clever trick with this non-violence
> doctrine. I doubt he believes in it himself. He simply wants to trap
> Christians with their own scriptures and by their own love for peace,
> into some kind of admission that salvation is not by grace but by
> works. If he can get Christians to admit that they feel obligated to
> save a child from a murderer, then he claims this can only be
> justified in the Old Testament, so they must accept that the Law is
> still in effect.
It's not a trap or a trick if you already know the intent, which I
have made abundantly clear in all my message... I do believe in non-
violence and I do subscribe to the doctrine of Yehoshua as
interpreting the Torah of Moses for he did not have authority to alter
or change one jot and he gave no authority to do so either but you
fail to recognize his teachings.
Mat 5:16 “Let your light so shine before men, so that they see your
good works and praise your Father who is in the heavens.
Mat 5:17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Torah or the
Prophets.1 I did not come to destroy but to complete. Footnote: 1The
Law and the Prophets is a term used for the pre-Messianic Scriptures.
Mat 5:18 “For truly, I say to you, till the heaven and the earth pass
away, one jot or one tittle shall by no means pass from the Torah till
all be done.1 Footnote: 1Lk. 16:17.
Mat 5:19 “Whoever, then, breaks one of the least of these commands,
and teaches men so, shall be called least in the reign of the heavens;
but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the
reign of the heavens.
Mat 5:20 “For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds
that of the scribes and Pharisees,1 you shall by no means enter into
the reign of the heavens.
Num 6:24 “Yahweh bless you and guard you;
Num 6:25 Yahweh make His face shine upon you, and show favour to you;
Num 6:26 Yahweh lift up His face upon you, and give you peace.” ’
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
“Begin to see yourself as a soul with a body rather than a body with a
soul.”
Wayne Dyer
Exo 20:7 “You do not bring the Name of 'Yud-Heh-Vav-Heh [translated
Yahweh] your Elohim to naught, for Yahweh does not leave the one
unpunished who brings His Name to naught.
Respond directly:
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/messianic_Yehoshua/
http://www.isr-messianic.org/ <- download scriptures free
http://messianicyehoshua.googlegroups.com/web/RNKJV.zip
Restored Names King James for E-sword
“A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon.
Courage is like love; it must have hope for nourishment.”
Napoleon Bonaparte
“A person who won't read has no advantage over one who can't read.”
Mark Twain
guardian Snow
>
> http://www.isr-messianic.org/ <- download scriptures freehttp://messianicyehoshua.googlegroups.com/web/RNKJV.zip
> Restored Names King James for E-sword
>
> “A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon.
> Courage is like love; it must have hope for nourishment.”
> Napoleon Bonaparte
>
> “A person who won't read has no advantage over one who can't read.”
> Mark Twain
You know.. it's so sad that Christians like this are so brainwashed
that any time somebody points out the teachings of scriptures and it
doesn't agree with the dogma their institution have instilled in them
they must accuse people of nefarious activity.
Unable to make a case for his stand point of violence, he then turns
to accusations since this is always the tactic of those who are unable
to make a argument.. name calling and debasing the messenger rather
then continue to speak on the topic... it's a shame.
Linda Lee
>
> >http://www.isr-messianic.org/ <- download scriptures freehttp://messianicyehoshua.googlegroups.com/web/RNKJV.zip
> > Restored Names King James for E-sword
>
> > “A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon.
> > Courage is like love; it must have hope for nourishment.”
> > Napoleon Bonaparte
>
> > “A person who won't read has no advantage over one who can't read.”
> > Mark Twain
>
> You know.. it's so sad that Christians like this are so brainwashed
> that any time somebody points out the teachings of scriptures and it
> doesn't agree with the dogma their institution have instilled in them
> they must accuse people of nefarious activity.
Nefarious; the perfect word to describe your alleged preaching. (If
you could call your conglomeration of quotes from people ranging from
the murderer Charles Manson to Buddha "preaching".)
>
> Unable to make a case for his stand point of violence, he then turns
> to accusations since this is always the tactic of those who are unable
> to make a argument.. name calling and debasing the messenger rather
> then continue to speak on the topic... it's a shame.
LOL. You're such a hypocrite. You say here in your defense of
murderers that we should not judge murderers, but you've judged me as
a murderer for voting for Obama whom you've also judged as a
murderer. I have to wonder, are you not bright enough to see how
hypocritical you are or do you just not care?
Linda Lee
Then you need to listen up, viper. You have no business quoting the
Messiah because you are a false teacher who claims the Messiah was
"only a prophet", and obviously, you are too ignorant to realize that
prophets do not have apostles or anyone else they send to preach their
message.
God had prophets he sent to prophesy of his intention to act as our
Saviour, and God incarnate had "apostles" he sent to preach that God
as the Saviour had arrived.
The Messiah said even John the Baptist was a prophet and "more than a
prophet".
The Messiah said of John the Baptist:
Mat 11:9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto
you, and more than a prophet.
Mat 11:10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my
messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
Mat 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women
there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding
he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Mat 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom
of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
Mat 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
Rod
> On Nov 21, 11:08 pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
>> On Nov 22, 2:10 pm,LindaLee<lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Nov 21, 1:14 pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
>>>> Therefore be wise as serpents and innocent as doves.
>>> Prophets don't have apostles, so why do you quote the Messiah's
>>> instructions to his apostles when you falsely claim the Messiah was
>>> "only a prophet" and you certainly do not act as a preacher of his
>>> gospel, the good news of salvation through him?
>> One needs to only listen and hear for an answer to be given.
>
>
> Then you need to listen up, viper.
Well hey there "Sarge", we'll just snap right to it!
> You have no business quoting the
> Messiah because you are a false teacher who claims the Messiah was
> "only a prophet", and obviously, you are too ignorant to realize that
> prophets do not have apostles or anyone else they send to preach their
> message.
Oh really? If a message is prophetic, does that not make the man
delivering it a prophet? And if it is not prophetic doesn't this make
the man delivering it a "false prophet"? Sure it does! Didn't Christ
deliver many prophecies during His ministry? Sure He did!
But we know that Christ wasn't "just" a prophet, was He? No, of course
He wasn't. He was YHVH incarnated into the body of the Christ, made
mortal by His own will. Without this mortality it wouldn't have been
possible for Him to die.
I know, this is the part where you slam me with that bull about
denying the Christ, but really...Christ Himself stated that He could
do nothing of Himself. What he saw the Father do He was able to do.
Christ was in essence the spirit of the Father but without the
divinity, the power or the knowledge, become His own Son, a separate
spirit and a separate individual but of a like mind and lifeforce.
>
>
> God had prophets he sent to prophesy of his intention to act as our
> Saviour, and God incarnate had "apostles" he sent to preach that God
> as the Saviour had arrived.
>
>
> The Messiah said even John the Baptist was a prophet and "more than a
> prophet".
Your stupidity is a perfect example of why an ass like Paul would make
life difficult for women! You really ought to shutup and let another
women speak that actually knows something!
guardian Snow
> Linda Lee wrote:
> > On Nov 21, 11:08 pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
> >> On Nov 22, 2:10 pm,LindaLee<lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> >>> On Nov 21, 1:14 pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
It really is a shame that just because they can't justify the position
of violence they take up, they change to another topic as if we have
been talking about that topic. It's like a broken record where they
drag it out ever chance.. notice that singforfree is using the same
topic... saying.. I can't justify my position but Snow says this and
that on other topics and so he is a bad man.
1Jn 1:2 And the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear
witness, and announce to you that everlasting life which was with the
Father and was manifested to us.
They live in denial of the scriptures speaking of manifesting the
Father, not being incarnated. The two words speak of totally
different things and word "incarnate" is not in the scriptures even
once.
Rod
> On Nov 23, 8:19 am, Rod <spa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Linda Lee wrote:
>>> On Nov 21, 11:08 pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
>>>> On Nov 22, 2:10 pm,LindaLee<lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Nov 21, 1:14 pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
I'm sure the word is a little young to be in scripture, but perhaps
manifesting IS the correct word to use. One or the other can be
misleading:
1 : readily perceived by the senses and especially by the sight
2 : easily understood or recognized by the mind : obvious
1 a : invested with bodily and especially human nature and form b :
made manifest or comprehensible : embodied <a fiend incarnate>
2 : incarnadine <incarnate clover>
Not that you need these definitions, but it's easier for me if I have
them in front of me. It seems to me that both definitions would fit
well, but manifest might be more difficult to detect for someone
not having seen signs of a divine presence previously. It is an
interesting topic though..
singin4free
>
> >http://www.isr-messianic.org/ <- download scriptures freehttp://messianicyehoshua.googlegroups.com/web/RNKJV.zip
> > Restored Names King James for E-sword
>
> > “A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon.
> > Courage is like love; it must have hope for nourishment.”
> > Napoleon Bonaparte
>
> > “A person who won't read has no advantage over one who can't read.”
> > Mark Twain
>
> You know.. it's so sad that Christians like this are so brainwashed
> that any time somebody points out the teachings of scriptures and it
> doesn't agree with the dogma their institution have instilled in them
> they must accuse people of nefarious activity.
>
> Unable to make a case for his stand point of violence, he then turns
> to accusations since this is always the tactic of those who are unable
> to make a argument.. name calling and debasing the messenger rather
> then continue to speak on the topic... it's a shame.
I made a case, and I accused you of nothing you did not say in one of
your prior posts, for example:
Snow said "The challenge for you is to find a single verse of
scriptures that
supports your view of the need for any violence at any point in your
walk with Messiah. The problem you are going to run into is that if
you say you should defend the child that is about to be murdered by a
sociopath, you are using an application of the Torah and must
acknowledge it in effect. ".
Here you are admitting that you do not believe your non-violence
doctrine, but instead you want to use it to trap Christians into
saying the Law is still in effect so that you can deny the good news
of the grace of God in the cross of Jesus, instead turning his
sacrifice into just a show or example, when in fact the prophets have
told us he died in our place, so that sins could be forgiven. Love and
the Torah are in complete agreement. The New Testament shows us that
love is the fulfillment of the law. It is not love to not defend the
innocent.
guardian Snow
> guardian Snow wrote:
> > On Nov 23, 8:19 am, Rod <spa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> Linda Lee wrote:
> >>> On Nov 21, 11:08 pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
> >>>> On Nov 22, 2:10 pm,LindaLee<lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
> >>>>> On Nov 21, 1:14 pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
I'm the same way.. that is why when I speak on certain topics, I put
the verse up as a reference point on what I am speaking about. The
point being is that my dogma should match the scriptures and not sit
around like the many other people spinning my wheels trying to make
the scriptures fit my dogma.
It is a great practice and I hope that you continue to lay it out like
that!
singin4free
singin4free said:
> > First, Snow likes to use the word"dogma" to insult people.
Snow said:
> It is only an insult if you consider it to be but it is not intended
> to be this way on my part.
>
> Dogma
> DOGMA, n. [Gr., to think; L.] A settled opinion; a principle, maxim or
> tenet; a doctrinal notion, particularly in matters of faith and
> philosophy; as the dogmas of the church
>
> Nothing in it's definition implies an insult so if you take it to mean
> an insult it is how you have defined it and not the excepted
> definition.
>
No, you use this all the time as a put down, trying to make it look
like Christian faith is blind lemming-like behavior, while your avante
garde new gospel that you make up as you go along is somehow more
creative and exciting. Baloney!
> >We are
> > told in scripture to hold fast to what we have heard from the
> > beginning, meaning, the gospel preached by the apostles. This is not
> > blind adherence to dogma. It is what we are commanded to do.
>
> This is not the beginning. The beginning is the Genesis:
>
> Gen 1:1 In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth.
>
> You have let go of what was from the beginning and redefined it to
> your own understanding.
>
You are wrong. Context is important, The Apostle John told the
disciples to hold fast to what they heard from the beginning.
1Jn 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from
the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall
remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
To whom was he speaking? Christians. And where were they when the
world was made? They were not yet born. So how could they have heard
God say "Let there be light"? They could not. They were not yet born.
But they were born when the gospel was first preached. So what time is
John referring to? The beginning of the gospel, when they first heard
it. They are to adhere to what they heard from the apostles and to
avoid avante garde make-it-up -as-you-go-along false teachings of self-
proclaimed teachers not sent out by Yeshua, who do not preach the
cross or the blood or the atonement or grace, or the Name of Yeshua
for salvation.
> > Second, he is trying to pull a clever trick with this non-violence
> > doctrine. I doubt he believes in it himself. He simply wants to trap
> > Christians with their own scriptures and by their own love for peace,
> > into some kind of admission that salvation is not by grace but by
> > works. If he can get Christians to admit that they feel obligated to
> > save a child from a murderer, then he claims this can only be
> > justified in the Old Testament, so they must accept that the Law is
> > still in effect.
>
> It's not a trap or a trick if you already know the intent, which I
> have made abundantly clear in all my message... I do believe in non-
> violence and I do subscribe to the doctrine of Yehoshua as
> interpreting the Torah of Moses for he did not have authority to alter
> or change one jot and he gave no authority to do so either but you
> fail to recognize his teachings.
If that is true, then why did you suggest Christians can find
justification for self-defense in the Torah? You stated in your other
post that this would then force them to admit the Torah is still in
effect. If that statement were true, then it would mean you have
misinterpreted Yeshua's doctrine if you truly believe he preached
total non-violence, since you say he could not change the Torah. In
effect you are contradicting yourself by saying (1) Christians can
only find justification for self-defense in the Old Testament but (2)
Yeshua preached total non-violence (including self-defense) and cannot
change the Torah. So which is it? You are pitting the Messiah against
the Torah. The way to reconcile it is to allow force when it is done
to help the innocent and for self-defense. This doesn't contradict the
Messiah or the Torah, because it is an act of love.
guardian Snow
Not true.. remember:
Mat 7:1 “Do not judge, lest you be judged.
Mat 7:2 “For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged. And
with the same measure you use, it shall be measured to you.
As we apply the standards of Torah on other people, it is applied to
us. What this says is that while as sovereign I may decide to act on
the ability to save the child's life from the murderer, the judgment I
place on others, the same is measured to me and so violence should
always be a last option because it is a poor solution compared to
running away from danger with the child for example.
Evasion was practiced by Yehoshua also...
Joh 8:59 Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Yehoshua
was hidden and went out of the Set-apart Place, going through the
midst of them, and so passed by.
guardian Snow
Words form the thread on which we string our experiences. Without them
we should live spasmodically and intermittently. Hatred itself is not
so strong that animals will not forget it, if distracted, even in the
presence of the enemy. Watch a pair of cats, crouching on the brink of
a fight. Balefully the eyes glare; from far down in the throat of each
come bursts of a strange, strangled noise of defiance; as though
animated by a life of their own, the tails twitch and tremble.
With aimed intensity of loathing! Another moment and surely there must
be an explosion. But no; all of a sudden one of the two creatures
turns away, hoists a hind leg in a more than fascist salute and, with
the same fixed and focused attention as it had given a moment before
to its enemy, begins to make a lingual toilet. Animal love is as much
at the mercy of distractions as animal hatred. The dumb creation lives
a life made up of discreet and mutually irrelevant episodes. Such as
it is, the consistency of human characters is due to the words upon
which all human experiences are strung. We are purposeful because we
can describe our feelings in rememberable words, can justify and
rationalize our desires in terms of some kind of argument. Faced by an
enemy we do not allow an itch to distract us from our emotions; the
mere word “enemy” is enough to keep us reminded of our hatred, to
convince us that we do well to be angry. Similarly the word “love”
bridges for us those chasms of momentary indifference and boredom
which gape from time to time between even the most ardent lovers.
Feeling and desire provide us with our motive power; words give
continuity to what we do and to a considerable extent determine our
direction. Inappropriate and badly chosen words vitiate thought and
lead to wrong or foolish conduct. Most ignorances are vincible, and in
the greater number of cases stupidity is what the Buddha pronounced it
to be, a sin. For, consciously, or subconsciously, it is with
deliberation that we do not know or fail to understand — because
incomprehension allows us, with a good conscience, to evade unpleasant
obligations and responsibilities, because ignorance is the best excuse
for going on doing what one likes, but ought not, to do. Our egotisms
are incessantly fighting to preserve themselves, not only from
external enemies, but also from the assaults of the other and better
self with which they are so uncomfortably associated. Ignorance is
egotism’s most effective defense against that Dr. Jekyll in us who
desires perfection; stupidity, its subtlest stratagem. If, as so often
happens, we choose to give continuity to our experience by means of
words which falsify the facts, this is because the falsification is
somehow to our advantage as egotists. Consider, for example, the case
of war. War is enormously discreditable to those who order it to be
waged and even to those who merely tolerate its existence.
Furthermore, to developed sensibilities the facts of war are revolting
and horrifying. To falsify these facts, and by so doing to make war
seem less evil than it really is, and our own responsibility in
tolerating war less heavy, is doubly to our advantage. By suppressing
and distorting the truth, we protect our sensibilities and preserve
our selfesteem. Now, language is, among other things, a device which
men use for suppressing and distorting the truth. Finding the reality
of war too unpleasant to contemplate, we create a verbal alternative
to that reality, parallel with it, but in quality quite different from
it. That which we contemplate thenceforward is not that to which we
react emotionally and upon which we pass our moral judgments, is not
war as it is in fact, but the fiction of war as it exists in our
pleasantly falsifying verbiage. Our stupidity in using inappropriate
language turns out, on analysis, to be the most refined cunning. The
most shocking fact about war is that its victims and its instruments
are individual human beings, and that these individual human beings
are condemned by the monstrous conventions of politics to murder or be
murdered in quarrels not their own, to inflict upon the innocent and,
innocent themselves of any crime against their enemies, to suffer
cruelties of every kind. The language of strategy and politics is
designed, so far as it is possible, to conceal this fact, to make it
appear as though wars were not fought by individuals drilled to murder
one another in cold blood and without provocation, but either by
impersonal and therefore wholly non-moral and impassible forces, or
else by personified abstractions. Here are a few examples of the first
kind of falsification. In place of “cavalrymen” or “foot-soldiers”
military writers like to speak of “sabres” and “rules.” Here is a
sentence from a description of the Battle of Marengo: “According to
Victor’s report, the French retreat was orderly; it is certain, at any
rate, that the regiments held together, for the six thousand Austrian
sabres found no opportunity to charge home.” The battle is between
sabres in line and muskets in Echelon — a mere clash of ironmongery.
On other occasions there is no question of anything so vulgarly
material as ironmongery. The battles are between Platonic ideas,
between the abstractions of physics and mathematics. Forces interact;
weights are flung into scales; masses are set in motion. Or else it is
all a matter of geometry. Lines swing and sweep; are protracted or
curved; pivot on a fixed point. Alternatively the combatants are
personal, in the sense that they are personifications. There is “the
enemy,” in the singular, making “his” plans, striking “his” blows. The
attribution of personal characteristics to collectivities, to
geographical expressions, to institutions, is a source, as we shall
see, of endless confusions in political thought, of innumerable
political mistakes and crimes. Personification in politics is an error
which we make because it is to our advantage as egotists to be able to
feel violently proud of our country and of ourselves as belonging to
it, and to believe that all the misfortunes due to our own mistakes
are really the work of the Foreigner. It is easier to feel violently
toward a person than toward an abstraction; hence our habit of making
political personifications. In some cases military personifications
are merely special instances of political personifications. A
particular collectivity, the army or the warring nation, is given the
name and, along with the name, the attributes of a single person, in
order that we may be able to love or hate it more intensely than we
could do if we thought of it as what it really is: a number of diverse
individuals. In other cases personification is used for the purpose of
concealing the fundamental absurdity and monstrosity of war. What is
absurd and monstrous about war is that men who have no personal
quarrel should be trained to murder one another in cold blood. By
personifying opposing armies or countries, we are able to think of war
as a conflict between individuals. The same result is obtained by
writing of war as though it were carried on exclusively by the
generals in command and not by the private soldiers in their armies.
(“Rennenkampf had pressed back von Schubert.”) The implication in both
cases is that war is indistinguishable from a bout of fisticuffs in a
bar room. Whereas in reality it is profoundly different. A scrap
between two individuals is forgivable; mass murder, deliberately
organized, is a monstrous iniquity. We still choose to use war as an
instrument of policy; and to comprehend the full wickedness and
absurdity of war would therefore be inconvenient. For, once we
understood, we should have to make some effort to get rid of the
abominable thing. Accordingly, when we talk about war, we use a
language which conceals or embellishes its reality. Ignoring the
facts, so far as we possibly can, we imply that battles are not fought
by soldiers, but by things, principles, allegories, personified
collectivities, or (at the most human) by opposing commanders, pitched
against one another in single combat. For the same reason, when we
have to describe the processes and the results of war, we employ a
rich variety of euphemisms. Even the most violently patriotic and
militaristic are reluctant to call a spade by its own name. To conceal
their intentions even from themselves, they make use of picturesque
metaphors. We find them, for example, clamoring for war planes
numerous and powerful enough to go and “destroy the hornets in their
nests” — in other words, to go and throw thermite, high explosives and
vesicants upon the inhabitants of neighboring countries before they
have time to come and do the same to us. And how reassuring is the
language of historians and strategists! They write admiringly of those
military geniuses who know “when to strike at the enemy’s line” (a
single combatant deranges the geometrical constructions of a
personification); when to “turn his flank”; when to “execute an
enveloping movement.” As though they were engineers discussing the
strength of materials and the distribution of stresses, they talk of
abstract entities called “man power” and “fire power.” They sum up the
long-drawn sufferings and atrocities of trench warfare in the phrase,
“a war of attrition”; the massacre and mangling of human beings is
assimilated to the grinding of a lens. A dangerously abstract word,
which figures in all discussions about war, is “force.” Those who
believe in organizing collective security by means of military pacts
against a possible aggressor are particularly fond of this word. “You
cannot,” they say, “have international justice unless you are prepared
to impose it by force.” “Peace-loving countries must unite to use
force against aggressive dictatorships.” “Democratic institutions must
be protected, if need be, by force.” And so on. Now, the word “force,”
when used in reference to human relations, has no single, definite
meaning. There is the “force” used by parents when, without resort to
any kind of physical violence, they compel their children to act or
refrain from acting in some particular way. There is the “force” used
by attendants in an asylum when they try to prevent a maniac from
hurting himself or others. There is the “force” used by the police
when they control a crowd, and that other “force” which they used in a
baton charge. And finally there is the “force” used in war. This, of
course, varies with the technological devices at the disposal of the
belligerents, with the policies they are pursuing, and with the
particular circumstances of the war in question. But in general it may
be said that, in war, “force” connotes violence and fraud used to the
limit of the combatants’ capacity. Variations in quantity, if
sufficiently great, produce variations in quality. The “force” that is
war, particularly modern war, is very different from the “force” that
is police action, and the use of the same abstract word to describe
the two dissimilar processes is profoundly misleading. (Still more
misleading, of course, is the explicit assimilation of a war, waged by
allied League-of-Nations powers against an aggressor, to police action
against a criminal. The first is the use of violence and fraud without
limit against innocent and guilty alike; the second is the use of
strictly limited violence and a minimum of fraud exclusively against
the guilty.) Reality is a succession of concrete and particular
situations. When we think about such situations we should use the
particular and concrete words which apply to them. If we use abstract
words which apply equally well (and equally badly) to other, quite
dissimilar situations, it is certain that we shall think incorrectly.
Let us take the sentences quoted above and translate the abstract word
“force” into language that will render (however inadequately) the
concrete and particular realities of contemporary warfare. “You cannot
have international justice, unless you are prepared to impose it by
force.” Translated, this becomes: “You cannot have international
justice unless you are prepared, with a view to imposing a just
settlement, to drop thermite, high explosives and vesicants upon the
inhabitants of foreign cities and to have thermite, high explosives
and vesicants dropped in return upon the inhabitants of your cities.”
At the end of this proceeding, justice is to be imposed by the
victorious party — that is, if there is a victorious party. It should
be remarked that justice was to have been imposed by the victorious
party at the end of the last war. But, unfortunately, after four years
of fighting, the temper of the victors was such that they were quite
incapable of making a just settlement. The Allies are reaping in Nazi
Germany what they sowed at Versailles. The victors of the next war
will have undergone intensive bombardments with thermite, high
explosives and vesicants. Will their temper be better than that of the
Allies in 1918? Will they be in a fitter state to make a just
settlement? The answer, quite obviously, is: No. It is psychologically
all but impossible that justice should be secured by the methods of
contemporary warfare. The next two sentences may be taken together.
“Peace-loving countries must unite to use force against aggressive
dictatorships. Democratic institutions must be protected, if need be,
by force.” Let us translate. “Peace-loving countries must unite to
throw thermite, high explosives and vesicants on the inhabitants of
countries ruled by aggressive dictators. They must do this, and of
course abide the consequences, in order to preserve peace and
democratic institutions.” Two questions immediately propound
themselves. First, is it likely that peace can be secured by a process
calculated to reduce the orderly life of our complicated societies to
chaos? And, second, is it likely that democratic institutions will
flourish in a state of chaos? Again, the answers are pretty clearly in
the negative. By using the abstract word “force,” instead of terms
which at least attempt to describe the realities of war as it is
today, the preachers of collective security through military
collaboration disguise from themselves and from others, not only the
contemporary facts, but also the probable consequences of their
favorite policy. The attempt to secure justice, peace and democracy by
“force” seems reasonable enough until we realize, first, that this
noncommittal word stands, in the circumstances of our age, for
activities which can hardly fail to result in social chaos; and
second, that the consequences of social chaos are injustice, chronic
warfare and tyranny. The moment we think in concrete and particular
terms of the concrete and particular process called “modern war,” we
see that a policy which worked (or at least didn’t result in complete
disaster) in the past has no prospect whatever of working in the
immediate future. The attempt to secure justice, peace and democracy
by means of a “force,” which means, at this particular moment of
history, thermite, high explosives and vesicants, is about as
reasonable as the attempt to put out a fire with a colorless liquid
that happens to be, not water, but petrol. What applies to the “force”
that is war applies in large measure to the “force” that is
revolution. It seems inherently very unlikely that social justice and
social peace can be secured by thermite, high explosives and
vesicants. At first, it may be, the parties in a civil war would
hesitate to use such instruments on their fellow-countrymen. But there
can be little doubt that, if the conflict were prolonged (as it
probably would be between the evenly balanced Right and Left of a
highly industrialized society), the combatants would end by losing
their scruples. The alternatives confronting us seem to be plain
enough. Either we invent and conscientiously employ a new technique
for making revolutions and settling international disputes; or else we
cling to the old technique and, using “force” (that is to say,
thermite, high explosives and vesicants), destroy ourselves. Those
who, for whatever motive, disguise the nature of the second
alternative under inappropriate language, render the world a grave
disservice. They lead us into one of the temptations we find it
hardest to resist — the temptation to run away from reality, to
pretend that facts are not what they are. Like Shelley (but without
Shelley’s acute awareness of what he was doing) we are perpetually
weaving
A shroud of talk to hide us from the sun Of this familiar life.
We protect our minds by an elaborate system of abstractions,
ambiguities, metaphors and similes from the reality we do not wish to
know too clearly; we lie to ourselves, in order that we may still have
the excuse of ignorance, the alibi of stupidity and incomprehension,
possessing which we can continue with a good conscience to commit and
tolerate the most monstrous crimes:
The poor wretch who has learned his only prayers From curses, who
knows scarcely words enough To ask a blessing from his Heavenly
Father, Becomes a fluent phraseman, absolute And technical in
victories and defeats, And all our dainty terms for fratricide; Terms
which we trundle smoothly o’er our tongues Like mere abstractions,
empty sounds to which We join no meaning and attach no form! As if the
soldier died without a wound: As if the fibers of this godlike frame
Were gored without a pang: as if the wretch Who fell in battle, doing
bloody deeds, Passed off to Heaven translated and not killed; As
though he had no wife to pine for him, No God to judge him.
The language we use about war is inappropriate, and its
inappropriateness is designed to conceal a reality so odious that we
do not wish to know it. The language we use about politics is also
inappropriate; but here our mistake has a different purpose. Our
principal aim in this case is to arouse and, having aroused, to
rationalize and justify such intrinsically agreeable sentiments as
pride and hatred, self-esteem and contempt for others. To achieve this
end we speak about the facts of politics in words which more or less
completely misrepresent them. The concrete realities of politics are
individual human beings, living together in national groups.
Politicians — and to some extent we are all politicians — substitute
abstractions for these concrete realities, and having done this,
proceed to invest each abstraction with an appearance of concreteness
by personifying it. For example, the concrete reality of which
“Britain” is the abstraction consists of some forty-odd millions of
diverse individuals living on an island off the west coast of Europe.
The personification of this abstraction appears, in classical fancy-
dress and holding a very large toasting fork, on the backside of our
copper coinage; appears in verbal form, every time we talk about
international politics. “Britain,” the abstraction from forty millions
of Britons, is endowed with thoughts, sensibilities and emotions, even
with a sex — for, in spite of John Bull, the country is always a
female. Now, it is of course possible that “Britain” is more than a
mere name — is an entity that possesses some kind of reality distinct
from that of the individuals constituting the group to which the name
is applied. But this entity, if it exists, is certainly not a young
lady with a toasting fork; nor is it possible to believe (though some
eminent philosophers have preached the doctrine) that it should
possess anything in the nature of a personal will. One must agree with
T. H. Green that “there can be nothing in a nation, however exalted
its mission, or in a society however perfectly organized, which is not
in the persons composing the nation or the society. . . We cannot
suppose a national spirit and will to exist except as the spirit and
will of individuals.” But the moment we start resolutely thinking
about our world in terms of individual persons we find ourselves at
the same time thinking in terms of universality. “The great rational
religions,” writes Professor Whitehead, “are the outcome of the
emergence of a religious consciousness that is universal, as
distinguished from tribal, or even social. Because it is universal, it
introduces the note of solitariness.” (And he might have added that,
because it is solitary, it introduces the note of universality.) “The
reason of this connection between universality and solitude is that
universality is a disconnection from immediate surroundings.” And
conversely the disconnection from immediate surroundings, particularly
such social surrounding as the tribe or nation, the insistence on the
person as the fundamental reality, leads to the conception of an all-
embracing unity. A nation, then, may be more than a mere abstraction,
may possess some kind of real existence apart from its constituent
members. But there is no reason to suppose that it is a person;
indeed, there is every reason to suppose that it isn’t. Those who
speak as though it were a person (and some go further than this and
speak as though it were a personal god) do so, because it is to their
interest as egotists to make precisely this mistake. In the case of
the ruling class these interests are in part material. The
personification of the nation as a sacred being, different from and
superior to its constituent members, is merely (I quote the words of a
great French jurist, Léon Duguit) “a way of imposing authority by
making people believe it is an authority de jure and not merely de
facto.” By habitually talking of the nation as though it were a person
with thoughts, feelings and a will of its own, the rulers of a country
legitimate their own powers. Personification leads easily to
deification; and where the nation is deified, its government ceases to
be a mere convenience, like drains or a telephone system, and,
partaking in the sacredness of the entity it represents, claims to
give orders by divine right and demands the unquestioning obedience
due to a god. Rulers seldom find it hard to recognize their friends.
Hegel, the man who elaborated an inappropriate figure of speech into a
complete philosophy of politics, was a favorite of the Prussian
government. “Es ist,” he had written, “es ist der Gang Gottes in der
Welt, das der Staat ist.” The decoration bestowed on him by Frederick
William III was richly deserved. Unlike their rulers, the ruled have
no material interest in using inappropriate language about states and
nations. For them, the reward of being mistaken is psychological. The
personified and deified nation becomes, in the minds of the
individuals composing it, a kind of enlargement of themselves. The
superhuman qualities which belong to the young lady with the toasting
fork, the young lady with plaits and a brass soutien-gorge, the young
lady in a Phrygian bonnet, are claimed by individual Englishmen,
Germans and Frenchmen as being, at least in part, their own. Dulce et
decorum est pro patria mori. But there would be no need to die, no
need of war, if it had not been even sweeter to boast and swagger for
one’s country, to hate, despise, swindle and bully for it. Loyalty to
the personified nation, or to the personified class or party,
justifies the loyal in indulging all those passions which good manners
and the moral code do not allow them to display in their relations
with their neighbors. The personified entity is a being, not only
great and noble, but also insanely proud, vain and touchy; fiercely
rapacious; a braggart; bound by no considerations of right and wrong.
(Hegel condemned as hopelessly shallow all those who dared to apply
ethical standards to the activities of nations. To condone and applaud
every iniquity committed in the name of the State was to him a sign of
philosophical profundity.) Identifying themselves with this god,
individuals find relief from the constraints of ordinary social
decency, feel themselves justified in giving rein, within duly
prescribed limits, to their criminal proclivities. As a loyal
nationalist or party-man, one can enjoy the luxury of behaving badly
with a good conscience. The evil passions are further justified by
another linguistic error — the error of speaking about certain
categories of persons as though they were mere embodied abstractions.
Foreigners and those who disagree with us are not thought of as men
and women like ourselves and our fellow-countrymen; they are thought
of as representatives and, so to say, symbols of a class. In so far as
they have any personality at all, it is the personality we mistakenly
attribute to their class — a personality that is, by definition,
intrinsically evil. We know that the harming or killing of men and
women is wrong, and we are reluctant consciously to do what we know to
be wrong. But when particular men and women are thought of merely as
representatives of a class, which has previously been defined as evil
and personified in the shape of a devil, then the reluctance to hurt
or murder disappears. Brown, Jones and Robinson are no longer thought
of as Brown, Jones and Robinson, but as heretics, gentiles, Yids,
niggers, barbarians, Huns, communists, capitalists, fascists, liberals
— whichever the case may be. When they have been called such names and
assimilated to the accursed class to which the names apply, Brown,
Jones and Robinson cease to be conceived as what they really are —
human persons — and become for the users of this fatally inappropriate
language mere vermin or, worse, demons whom it is right and proper to
destroy as thoroughly and as painfully as possible. Wherever persons
are present, questions of morality arise. Rulers of nations and
leaders of parties find morality embarrassing. That is why they take
such pains to depersonalize their opponents. All propaganda directed
against an opposing group has but one aim: to substitute diabolical
abstractions for concrete persons. The propagandist’s purpose is to
make one set of people forget that certain other sets of people are
human. By robbing them of their personality, he puts them outside the
pale of moral obligation. Mere symbols can have no rights —
particularly when that of which they are symbolical is, by definition,
evil. Politics can become moral only on one condition: that its
problems shall be spoken of and thought about exclusively in terms of
concrete reality; that is to say, of persons. To depersonify human
beings and to personify abstractions are complementary errors which
lead, by an inexorable logic, to war between nations and to idolatrous
worship of the State, with consequent governmental oppression. All
current political thought is a mixture, in varying proportions,
between thought in terms of concrete realities and thought in terms of
depersonified symbols and personified abstractions. In the democratic
countries the problems of internal politics are thought about mainly
in terms of concrete reality; those of external politics, mainly in
terms of abstractions and symbols. In dictatorial countries the
proportion of concrete to abstract and symbolic thought is lower than
in democratic countries. Dictators talk little of persons, much of
personified abstractions, such as the Nation, the State, the Party,
and much of depersonified symbols, such as Yids, Bolshies,
Capitalists. The stupidity of politicians who talk about a world of
persons as though it were not a world of persons is due in the main to
self-interest. In a fictitious world of symbols and personified
abstractions, rulers find that they can rule more effectively, and the
ruled, that they can gratify instincts which the conventions of good
manners and the imperatives of morality demand that they should
repress. To think correctly is the condition of behaving well. It is
also in itself a moral act; those who would think correctly must
resist considerable temptations.
(From The Olive Tree)
guardian Snow
weaving, “A shroud of talk to hide us from the sun Of this familiar
life.”
conception of an all-embracing unity. A nation, then, may be more than
singin4free
If you say violence is a last option, then I agree. But it appears to
me you changed for total non-violence to this new view.
Linda Lee
His beliefs on every subject are mercurial because he is unstable.
Rod
>> Mat 7:2 �For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged. And
>> with the same measure you use, it shall be measured to you.
>>
>> As we apply the standards of Torah on other people, it is applied to
>> us. What this says is that while as sovereign I may decide to act on
>> the ability to save the child's life from the murderer, the judgment I
>> place on others, the same is measured to me and so violence should
>> always be a last option because it is a poor solution compared to
>> running away from danger with the child for example.
>>
>> Evasion was practiced by Yehoshua also...
>>
>> Joh 8:59 Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Yehoshua
>> was hidden and went out of the Set-apart Place, going through the
>> midst of them, and so passed by.
>
> If you say violence is a last option, then I agree. But it appears to
> me you changed for total non-violence to this new view.
Perhaps his view has been altered from learning something new,
or reviewing something old. But in the time I've been reading his
posts he has never refused to learn or alter his views if he found
them needing or wrong. I can't say this for to many people here
because the politics of usenet are those of hate. I'm not speaking
of you, but of many others I've read, and wish I hadn't. You've
argued with him and been reasonable about it, where there is another
here that the word reason means nothing short of slander.
I can't help but wonder why it is that many a usenetter believes that
once if your views change that you're unstable, but I suspect it is
because these are the same people that demonstrate pride, arrogance
and have stopped learning.
Linda Lee
> LindaLeewrote:
> > On Nov 21, 11:08 pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
> >> On Nov 22, 2:10 pm,LindaLee<lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> >>> On Nov 21, 1:14 pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
> >>>> Therefore be wise as serpents and innocent as doves.
> >>> Prophets don't have apostles, so why do you quote the Messiah's
> >>> instructions to his apostles when you falsely claim the Messiah was
> >>> "only a prophet" and you certainly do not act as a preacher of his
> >>> gospel, the good news of salvation through him?
> >> One needs to only listen and hear for an answer to be given.
>
> > Then you need to listen up, viper.
>
> Well hey there "Sarge", we'll just snap right to it!
>
> > You have no business quoting the
> > Messiah because you are a false teacher who claims the Messiah was
> > "only a prophet", and obviously, you are too ignorant to realize that
> > prophets do not have apostles or anyone else they send to preach their
> > message.
>
> Oh really? If a message is prophetic, does that not make the man
> delivering it a prophet? And if it is not prophetic doesn't this make
> the man delivering it a "false prophet"? Sure it does! Didn't Christ
> deliver many prophecies during His ministry? Sure He did!
>
> But we know that Christ wasn't "just" a prophet, was He? No, of course
> He wasn't. He was YHVH incarnated into the body of the Christ, made
> mortal by His own will. Without this mortality it wouldn't have been
> possible for Him to die.
>
> I know, this is the part where you slam me with that bull about
> denying the Christ, but really...Christ Himself stated that He could
> do nothing of Himself. What he saw the Father do He was able to do.
You're as ignorant as they come Snowjob-puppet. You've just become a
clone of Snowjob; spewing his confusion, and you're both too blind to
see the parallels between God and Christ that reveal they are one
because you are not of God; you are both the children of the evil
one.
Only the Father can forgive sins; the Messiah forgave sins. God will
judge everyone at Judgment Day; Christ will judge everyone at Judgment
Day. Israelite believers were 'married to' God; believers are 'married
to' Christ. DO YOU SEE A PATTERN HERE, MORON?
The Messiah couldn't do anything other than what the Father could do
because he was the Father, and the reason he said 'the Father is
greater' than I is because he was saying the Spirit is greater than
flesh.
> Christ was in essence the spirit of the Father but without the
> divinity, the power or the knowledge,
Of course the Messiah was divine; he was worshipped from the time he
was born and throughout his ministry.
Snowjob has never managed to convince one believer of his babble, and
I don't think Snowjob's confusion has done any damage on you because
you were never a believer.
> become His own Son, a separate
> spirit and a separate individual but of a like mind and lifeforce.
Gee where have I heard that claptrap before? Oh yeah, from "guardian
Snow"/Snowjob/guardian of Babble.
Here's something from the OT for you, devil-boy:
Psa 2:11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
Psa 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way,
when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put
their trust in him.
>
>
>
> > God had prophets he sent to prophesy of his intention to act as our
> > Saviour, and God incarnate had "apostles" he sent to preach that God
> > as the Saviour had arrived.
>
> > The Messiah said even John the Baptist was a prophet and "more than a
> > prophet".
>
> Your stupidity is a perfect example of why an ass like Paul would make
> life difficult for women! You really ought to shutup and let another
> women speak that actually knows something!
You're the ass. I guess you couldn't think of a proper reply to the
fact that prophets didn't send anyone out with their own message as
the Messiah sent his apostles and just as God had sent his prophets -
another parallel between God the Holy Spirit and God incarnate as the
Messiah you've missed.
Rod
> On Nov 22, 4:19 pm, Rod <spa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> LindaLeewrote:
>>> On Nov 21, 11:08 pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
>>>> On Nov 22, 2:10 pm,LindaLee<lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Nov 21, 1:14 pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
Yeah, the same pattern I see every time you post. You bring most of
what comes to you onto yourself, and you deserve it all. You are much
like the members of Al Quaeda in two ways; you spread hate and cry when
you have to reap what you sow.
Judging by the pattern always in your posts, and the whining you do
at the responses you elicit, one can't help but feel some compassion
for your inability to overcome the brain damage.
>
> The Messiah couldn't do anything other than what the Father could do
> because he was the Father, and the reason he said 'the Father is
> greater' than I is because he was saying the Spirit is greater than
> flesh.
This is what I was speaking about in another post; the "I'm right and
everyone not believing as I do is wrong" attitude. You ARE the
stereotypical, militant fundamentalist. You seem to have more in common
with a suicide bomber or a terrorist than you do with normal people.
Well I'm sorry Linda, but I'm not going to agree with you on this
any time soon. Linda, you may be very fond of preaching scripture,
but you are not fit to teach because you are not above reproach.
2Timothy 2:24 And the Lord's servant must not strive, but be gentle
towards all, apt to teach, forbearing,
2Timothy 2:25 in meekness correcting them that oppose themselves; if
peradventure God may give them repentance unto the knowledge of the truth,
2Timothy 2:26 and they may recover themselves out of the snare of the
devil, having been taken captive by him unto his will.
>
>
>> Christ was in essence the spirit of the Father but without the
>> divinity, the power or the knowledge,
>
> Of course the Messiah was divine; he was worshipped from the time he
> was born and throughout his ministry.
Being worshipped doesn't make him divine and it certainly doesn't
make those doing so correct.
>
> Snowjob has never managed to convince one believer of his babble, and
> I don't think Snowjob's confusion has done any damage on you because
> you were never a believer.
>
>
>> become His own Son, a separate
>> spirit and a separate individual but of a like mind and lifeforce.
>
> Gee where have I heard that claptrap before? Oh yeah, from "guardian
> Snow"/Snowjob/guardian of Babble.
>
> Here's something from the OT for you, devil-boy:
>
> Psa 2:11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
> Psa 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way,
> when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put
> their trust in him.
Psa 2:12 paints a picture of a psychopathic lord..and "Christians"
can't come to understand WHY some people would be hesitant at adopting
such a spiritual philosophy!
Thank you Linda, thru your effort you have just helped me to end being
a fence setter, and perhaps many other people as well. I can now see
full well why you are as you are. I retract what I've said all along,
I am wrong. You ARE a Christian after all. A perfect reflection of the
psychotic spoken of above in Psa 2:12.
So, when will you join with Al Quaeda to bring back the stoning's of
heretics and the crucifixions?
Yeah, I've pretty much have decided that Christianity is a religion
of fools, cowards and psychotics. I no longer want to be a part of it.
Thank you for your help, Linda.
Linda Lee
>
> > Psa 2:11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
> > Psa 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way,
> > when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put
> > their trust in him.
> Psa 2:12 paints a picture of a psychopathic lord..and "Christians"
> can't come to understand WHY some people would be hesitant at adopting
> such a spiritual philosophy!
LOL. So now it is not just Christianity you reject, but you view God
in the OT as psychotic as well. You do so because you're a fraud and a
psychotic, devil-boy. You're just like all evil people; offended at
God's judgment because you are evil.
Pro 28:5 Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the
LORD understand all things.
Pro 19:28 An ungodly witness scorneth judgment: and the mouth of the
wicked devoureth iniquity.
As I said before, you pray there is no hell awaiting you.
Psa 37:30 The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue
talketh of judgment.
Pro 18:5 It is not good to accept the person of the wicked, to
overthrow the righteous in judgment.
>
> Yeah, I've pretty much have decided that Christianity is a religion
> of fools, cowards and psychotics. I no longer want to be a part of it.
You've never been a part of it fraud. I hear you've been saying that
for years after you pretend to one person and another that you were a
Christian.
>
> Thank you for your help,Linda.
There are two kinds of people in the world; children of God and
children of the devil (the "wicked one"); you and Snowjob are children
of the Devil and so cannot hear the voice of the Shepherd (the
"Shepherd" being another parallel between God and the Christ to which
you are blind).
Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the
house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the
parable of the tares of the field.
Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good
seed is the Son of man;
Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of
the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the
end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire;
so shall it be in the end of this world.
Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall
gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do
iniquity;
Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be
wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the
kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Ecc 12:11 The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened
by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd.
God as the Shepherd:
Psa 80:1 <To the chief Musician upon Shoshannimeduth, A Psalm of
Asaph.> Give ear, O Shepherd of Israel, thou that leadest Joseph like
a flock; thou that dwellest between the cherubims, shine forth.
Psa 23:1 <A Psalm of David.> The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not
want.
Messiah as the Shepherd:
Joh 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life
for the sheep.
Joh 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of
mine.
Rod
> On Nov 23, 5:27 pm, Rod <spa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> Psa 2:11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
>>> Psa 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way,
>>> when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put
>>> their trust in him.
>
>> Psa 2:12 paints a picture of a psychopathic lord..and "Christians"
>> can't come to understand WHY some people would be hesitant at adopting
>> such a spiritual philosophy!
>
>
> LOL. So now it is not just Christianity you reject, but you view God
> in the OT as psychotic as well. You do so because you're a fraud and a
> psychotic, devil-boy. You're just like all evil people; offended at
> God's judgment because you are evil.
No, it's your judgment that I'm evil. I stand by what I said; Psalm
2:11 & 12 paint a picture of a psychotic lord. I'm not evil and I
certainly don't agree with what I've read in Psa 2:11 & 12. Anyone
willing to submit to such an overlord is a fool and begging to be
a victim.
>
> Pro 28:5 Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the
> LORD understand all things.
>
> Pro 19:28 An ungodly witness scorneth judgment: and the mouth of the
> wicked devoureth iniquity.
You misapply scriptures with impunity Linda. You are as psychotic
as the god described in psa 2:11 & 12.
>
> As I said before, you pray there is no hell awaiting you.
I have some news for you and your psychotic leader, I'm not going
to lay down and allow you to murder me in an overwhelming moment of
your madness!
If you would look closely at the madness you have been spouting
you might find that you are no better than a terrorist, and in
fact present a very real danger to society with your insanity.
>
> Psa 37:30 The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue
> talketh of judgment.
This is true, the mouth of the righteous also does not speak of
a quick temper, a personality that has to extort affection, and
murderous impulse control problems.
Seems like this leaves your god and his followers as unrighteous..
Prisons are filled to overflowing with murderous people that have
been put there by laws created by psychotics like you, Linda.
>
> Pro 18:5 It is not good to accept the person of the wicked, to
> overthrow the righteous in judgment.
>
>
>
>> Yeah, I've pretty much have decided that Christianity is a religion
>> of fools, cowards and psychotics. I no longer want to be a part of it.
>
> You've never been a part of it fraud. I hear you've been saying that
> for years after you pretend to one person and another that you were a
> Christian.
If believing isn't making yourself a part of it then I may be safe
after all.
>
>> Thank you for your help,Linda.
>
>
> There are two kinds of people in the world; children of God and
> children of the devil (the "wicked one"); you and Snowjob are children
> of the Devil and so cannot hear the voice of the Shepherd (the
> "Shepherd" being another parallel between God and the Christ to which
> you are blind).
Form what I've read today, I heard and SAW the true voice of your
shepherd in psalm 2:11 and 2:12. it was the voice of a murdering, evil
tempered psychotic
Psalm 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way,
when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put
their trust in him.
Anyone with good sense would turn and run at seeing these verses. The
only reason that other Christians don't speak is because they want
immortality at any price.
I don't want it so bad that I'm willing to follow a psychotic to
attain that.
And you label me as evil for recognizing it ans speaking out against
this evil...indeed.....
You can't hide the smell of death for long....may the evil inherent in
your religion die with you.
guardian Snow
> >> Mat 7:2 “For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged. And
Deu 19:15 “One witness does not rise up against a man concerning any
crookedness or any sin that he commits. At the mouth of two witnesses
or at the mouth of three witnesses a matter is established.
I am ONE, I do not foresee an instance for the use of violence and
you've refused to find a teaching of your deity in the New Testament
that supports the need for it. I do not see a change... I did say
police should always be respected.
"Defensive violence such the apprehension of criminals by law
enforcement should always be respected in my opinion but the
professional police officer with proper tools at his/her disposal
should hardly ever need to employ deadly force."
I did not change my perspective and as always, you care more about
what I say vs what your deity says because your only desire is to be
right in your own mind, not right according to the way taught by your
deity, shame on you.
You also forget that I am under the law and my deity [YAHWEH] says
their are times for violence.
Deu 13:6 “When your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or
your daughter, or the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as
your own being, entices you secretly, saying, ‘Let us go and serve
other mighty ones’– which you have not known, neither you nor your
fathers,
Deu 13:7 of the mighty ones of the people which are all around you,
near to you or far off from you, from one end of the earth to the
other end of the earth –
Deu 13:8 do not agree with him or listen to him, nor shall your eye
pardon him, nor spare him or conceal him,
Deu 13:9 but you shall certainly kill him. Your hand is first against
him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people,
Deu 13:10 and you shall stone him with stones until he dies, because
he sought to entice you away from יהוה [YAHWEH] your Elohim, who
brought you out of the land of Mitsrayim, from the house of bondage.
guardian Snow
Linda isn't even a Christian. Christians believe you must believe
apostle Paul, she doesn't but still practices his teaching minus the
stuff about woman learning in silence.
1Ti 2:11 Let a woman learn in silence, in all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 But I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority
over a man, rather, to be in silence.
1Ti 2:15 But she shall be saved in childbearing if they continue in
belief, and love, and set-apartness, with sensibleness.
Rod
You know snow, I'm not certain that I "want" a deity after what I've
read today. Had I looked closely at Psalm 2:11 & 12 years ago, I would
have turned tail and run at high speed away from Christianity or
Judaism. In truth at this moment, neither appeal to me.
>
> "Defensive violence such the apprehension of criminals by law
> enforcement should always be respected in my opinion but the
> professional police officer with proper tools at his/her disposal
> should hardly ever need to employ deadly force."
>
> I did not change my perspective and as always, you care more about
> what I say vs what your deity says because your only desire is to be
> right in your own mind, not right according to the way taught by your
> deity, shame on you.
I've seen the way taught by the deity in the old testament;
Psa 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way,
when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put
their trust in him.
and perhaps murdered if they anger him even slightly...
It is ugly and murderous, and I want no part of it...and SHAME on
you for ADORING such a hellish caricature of wickedness!
You have misled yourself into believing that you serve goodness,
when in fact goodness and righteousness do not KILL, nor do they
KILL out of ANGER, as in Psalm 2:12.
>
> You also forget that I am under the law and my deity [YAHWEH] says
> their are times for violence.
and as in Psalm 2:12, times of murder out of anger...don't forget this
tidbit of truth while ruminating on your blissful spirituality.
guardian Snow
I haven't... as with all things you have a choice and the choice is
yours to make my friend and I still respect you regardless of your
choice. A time for violence does not mean by my hand and something
many fail to grasp onto in Torah.
Deu 32:35 ‘Vengeance is Mine, and repayment, At the time their foot
slips; For near is the day of their calamity, And the matters prepared
are hastening to them.’
Consider that repayment of evil is not mine to account for and you
start to take in the whole of Torah and not just a passage out of
context:
Isa 55:7 Let the wrong forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his
thoughts. Let him return to Yahweh, who has compassion on him, and to
our Elohim, for He pardons much. 8 “For My thoughts are not your
thoughts, neither are your ways My ways,” declares Yahweh. 9 “For as
the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your
ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts.
Linda Lee
> On Nov 24, 11:04 am, Rod <spa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> >LindaLeewrote:
> > > On Nov 23, 5:27 pm, Rod <spa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > >>> Psa 2:11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
> > >>> Psa 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way,
> > >>> when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put
> > >>> their trust in him.
>
> > >> Psa 2:12 paints a picture of a psychopathic lord..and "Christians"
> > >> can't come to understand WHY some people would be hesitant at adopting
> > >> such a spiritual philosophy!
>
> > > LOL. So now it is not just Christianity you reject, but you view God
> > > in the OT as psychotic as well. You do so because you're a fraud and a
> > > psychotic, devil-boy. You're just like all evil people; offended at
> > > God's judgment because you are evil.
>
> > No, it's your judgment that I'm evil. I stand by what I said; Psalm
> > 2:11 & 12 paint a picture of a psychotic lord. I'm not evil and I
> > certainly don't agree with what I've read in Psa 2:11 & 12. Anyone
> > willing to submit to such an overlord is a fool and begging to be
> > a victim.
>
> > > Pro 28:5 Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the
> > > LORD understand all things.
>
> > > Pro 19:28 An ungodly witness scorneth judgment: and the mouth of the
> > > wicked devoureth iniquity.
>
LOL. Looks like you lost a follower of YHVH; he didn't last long. Your
evil buddy doesn't even believe in YHVH/YHWH; he is offended at God's
judgment because he knows he is evil and is just a fraud/troll like
yourself.
Prov. 28:5 "Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the
LORD understand all things."
>
> > And you label me as evil for recognizing it ans speaking out against
> > this evil...indeed.....
>
> > You can't hide the smell of death for long....may the evil inherent in
> > your religion die with you.
>
> Lindaisn't even a Christian. Christians believe you must believe
> apostle Paul, she doesn't but still practices his teaching minus the
> stuff about woman learning in silence.
More evidence of what a devil-boy you are. Christ never said that
believers had to accept Paul in order to be saved. Do you suppose
that all those believers whom Christ converted before Paul ever began
preaching are not Christians? Oh I forgot; thinking is not your forte,
and you don't care what Christ taught.
>
> 1Ti 2:11 Let a woman learn in silence, in all subjection.
> 1Ti 2:12 But I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority
> over a man, rather, to be in silence.
>
> 1Ti 2:15 But she shall be saved in childbearing if they continue in
> belief, and love, and set-apartness, with sensibleness.
You're an idiot.
Linda Lee
>
> >>> Psa 2:11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
> >>> Psa 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way,
> >>> when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put
> >>> their trust in him.
>
> >> Psa 2:12 paints a picture of a psychopathic lord..and "Christians"
> >> can't come to understand WHY some people would be hesitant at adopting
> >> such a spiritual philosophy!
>
> > LOL. So now it is not just Christianity you reject, but you view God
> > in the OT as psychotic as well. You do so because you're a fraud and a
> > psychotic, devil-boy. You're just like all evil people; offended at
> > God's judgment because you are evil.
>
> No, it's your judgment that I'm evil. I stand by what I said; Psalm
> 2:11 & 12 paint a picture of a psychotic lord. I'm not evil and I
> certainly don't agree with what I've read in Psa 2:11 & 12. Anyone
> willing to submit to such an overlord is a fool and begging to be
> a victim.
>
>
>
> > Pro 28:5 Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the
> > LORD understand all things.
>
> > Pro 19:28 An ungodly witness scorneth judgment: and the mouth of the
> > wicked devoureth iniquity.
>
> as the god described in psa 2:11 & 12.
>
>
>
> > As I said before, you pray there is no hell awaiting you.
>
> I have some news for you and your psychotic leader, I'm not going
> to lay down and allow you to murder me in an overwhelming moment of
> your madness!
>
> If you would look closely at the madness you have been spouting
> you might find that you are no better than a terrorist, and in
> fact present a very real danger to society with your insanity.
>
>
>
> > Psa 37:30 The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue
> > talketh of judgment.
>
> This is true, the mouth of the righteous also does not speak of
> a quick temper, a personality that has to extort affection, and
> murderous impulse control problems.
>
> Seems like this leaves your god and his followers as unrighteous..
>
> Prisons are filled to overflowing with murderous people that have
> been put there by laws created by psychotics like you,Linda.
You're upset that murderers are in prison and feel those that made the
laws that put them there are psychotic - proof of your own psychosis.
Their own murderous behavior put them in prison, just like evil
people's behavior will send them to Hell. You want to blame that on
the lawgiver, but it is the fault of the lawbreaker who victimizes
other people. Your sometimes nic "Psychotic Imp" suits you.
guardian Snow
You are a very intelligent lady who wants desperately to fit in with a
collective group that defines itself by a standard you do not hold
to. The Messiah may not have taught that you need Apostle Paul but
Christians do and they by majority view have defined what it is to be
Christian.
I understand this and respect this and call myself messianic. It is
your choice to attempt to define yourself as belonging to the group
known as Christian but isn't it better to recognize you practice the
teachings as you translate it?
Linda Lee
LOL!!! What timing! Rod reveals himself and turns on you, and now
you're trying to butter me up with your insincere compliments!
ROFLOL!!! Do you really think that will work at this late date? Why
not? Your phony compliments work on some...
I don't need your pretense of sympathizing with me, and I don't want
your false compliments; you're a manipulator pure and simple.
> to fit in with a
> collective group that defines itself by a standard you do not hold
> to.
I don't need to 'fit in' with any present-day Christian "group", as I
already 'fit in' with Christ. And it doesn't matter at all if some of
them add the stipulation that others must accept Paul. The Messiah
taught me all I need to know; that to have salvation I only need to
follow HIM and his teachings - nothing about agreeing with what some
Christians decided hundreds of years later was "standard" belief for
followers of Christ. Christ said nothing about accepting all apostles,
and especially nothing about accepting a person whom even the apostles
didn't call an apostle.
> The Messiah may not have taught that you need Apostle Paul but
> Christians do and they by majority view have defined what it is to be
> Christian.
Try to use your brain. Christ's teachings are based on Christ's view;
not the majority view. The teachings of Christ define Christianity;
not the decisions of a small group of 'church fathers' hundreds of
years after the death and resurrection of the Messiah and not the
beliefs of the likely thousands of different sects of Christianity
that exist now.
>
> I understand this and respect this and call myself messianic.
You are not messianic.
> It is
> your choice to attempt to define yourself as belonging to the group
> known as Christian but isn't it better to recognize you practice the
> teachings as you translate it?
I just differentiate between Pauline Christianity and the Messiah's
Christianity. Those who don't inordinately idolize Paul don't have a
problem with people who follow Christ who don't happen to believe
Paul. I don't worry about those who elevate Paul to the level of their
Saviour.
I hate to bring it up again, but you really are a control freak.
Linda Lee
From - http://groups.google.com/group/alt.bible.prophecy/msg/251a6ba855af762c
Rod says to Snowjob:
<begin quote>
"I've seen the way taught by the deity in the old testament;
Psa 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the
way,
when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that
put
their trust in him.
and perhaps murdered if they anger him even slightly...
It is ugly and murderous, and I want no part of it...and SHAME on
you for ADORING such a hellish caricature of wickedness!
You have misled yourself into believing that you serve goodness,
when in fact goodness and righteousness do not KILL, nor do they
KILL out of ANGER, as in Psalm 2:12.
> [Snowjob says] You also forget that I am under the law and my deity [YAHWEH] says
> their are times for violence.
and as in Psalm 2:12, times of murder out of anger...don't forget
this
tidbit of truth while ruminating on your blissful spirituality."
<end quote>
ROFLOL!!! He's attacked you and your beliefs just as he is known to
have done to all Christians on these newsgroups. Now your buddy Rod
says that God is "a hellish caricature of wickedness", and you should
be ashamed. ("SHAME on you for ADORING such a hellish caricature of
wickedness!")
This thread is the funniest most ironic thing I've seen in weeks!
Rod says, "Prisons are filled to overflowing with murderous people
that have been put there by laws created by psychotics like you,
Linda." - from http://groups.google.com/group/alt.bible.prophecy/msg/d8da772584d6195e
This guy is such a psycho he believes it is wrong to imprison
murderers; he thinks they should be free to murder good people! No
WONDER he rejects God and God's judgment on evil people.
It makes sense that only an evil psychotic like Rod/"Psychotic
Imp" (who rejects God because the Scriptures say God will judge and
punish him, and he knows his deeds are evil) would appear to 'follow'
your mess of babble and confusion for a time.
ROFLOL!!! :-)
singin4free
>
> Deu 19:15 “One witness does not rise up against a man concerning any
> crookedness or any sin that he commits. At the mouth of two witnesses
> or at the mouth of three witnesses a matter is established.
>
> I am ONE, I do not foresee an instance for the use of violence and
> you've refused to find a teaching of your deity in the New Testament
> that supports the need for it. I do not see a change... I did say
> police should always be respected.
>
> "Defensive violence such the apprehension of criminals by law
> enforcement should always be respected in my opinion but the
> professional police officer with proper tools at his/her disposal
> should hardly ever need to employ deadly force."
>
> I did not change my perspective and as always, you care more about
> what I say vs what your deity says because your only desire is to be
> right in your own mind, not right according to the way taught by your
> deity, shame on you.
>
> You also forget that I am under the law and my deity [YAHWEH] says
> their are times for violence.
I have not forgotten that at all. I see that you are using the non-
violence seen in Yeshua in the NT to try and trap Christians into
saying that they should be under the Law. But Yeshua also said there
is a time for carrying a sword:
Luk 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let
him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let
him sell his garment, and buy one.
So as always we find that the Son of Yahweh who was in the beginning
with Yahweh and WAS Yahweh is in harmony with what is found in the
Law. Christians do not abandon the Law, rather it has become a part of
them - written upon the heart by the Holy Spirit. The living Messiah
lives in those who are born of the Spirit. The essence of the Law is
fulfilled by the love of Christ that is poured out in the heart of the
born again believer. But we no longer live according to "touch not,
taste not", but by the law of liberty, as James called it, which is
faith working by love, as Paul said, and is the work by which faith
is shown to be alive, as James said "faith without works is dead,
being alone." We are saved by grace through faith in Yeshua. We are
born into his kingdom and baptized into his death, burial and
resurrection. We belong to him and he will in nowise cast us out. We
also belong through him to the Father, and no one can pluck us out of
the Father's hands. Our works are works of those who have the same
nature as Jesus, that is we are partakers of the divine nature.
Therefore we do not work to avoid punishment but to please our Father
in heaven, as we hope and wait for the fulfillment of his promise to
resurrect our mortal bodies and make as perfect, finally shedding the
likeness of sinful flesh forever, and putting on incorruptible bodies.
That is our great hope. We are peaceful in this world but violent in
the *spirit* toward the enemies of God, the powers and principalities
and spiritual wickedness in high places that wars against the truth.
As Paul said:
2Co 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the
flesh:
2Co 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty
through God to the pulling down of strongholds;)
2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that
exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into
captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
and
Eph 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the
power of his might.
Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand
against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against
principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of
this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Eph 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armor of God, that ye may
be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
So, as Christians our battles are not against the armies of this world
but against the armies of Satan and spiritual wickedness.
One should not seek after a form of religion, but the living Yeshua.
It is he that transforms you into a new creature, born of the Spirit.
He is the one who loved us so much he gave himself for us.
Linda Lee
>
> >>> Psa 2:11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
> >>> Psa 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way,
> >>> when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put
> >>> their trust in him.
>
> >> Psa 2:12 paints a picture of a psychopathic lord..and "Christians"
> >> can't come to understand WHY some people would be hesitant at adopting
> >> such a spiritual philosophy!
>
> > LOL. So now it is not just Christianity you reject, but you view God
> > in the OT as psychotic as well. You do so because you're a fraud and a
> > psychotic, devil-boy. You're just like all evil people; offended at
> > God's judgment because you are evil.
>
> No, it's your judgment that I'm evil. I stand by what I said; Psalm
> 2:11 & 12 paint a picture of a psychotic lord. I'm not evil and I
> certainly don't agree with what I've read in Psa 2:11 & 12. Anyone
> willing to submit to such an overlord is a fool and begging to be
> a victim.
>
>
>
> > Pro 28:5 Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the
> > LORD understand all things.
>
> > Pro 19:28 An ungodly witness scorneth judgment: and the mouth of the
> > wicked devoureth iniquity.
>
> as the god described in psa 2:11 & 12.
>
>
I doubt that anyone could receive a greater compliment or
recommendation of sanity.
Psa 2:11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
Psa 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way,
when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put
their trust in him.
Prov. 8:13 "The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and
arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward ["a perversity or fraud"]
mouth, do I hate."
I guess I do hate evil, pride, arrogancy, perversity, and fraudulence.
>
> > As I said before, you pray there is no hell awaiting you.
>
> I have some news for you and your psychotic leader, I'm not going
> to lay down and allow you to murder me in an overwhelming moment of
> your madness!
It is sad that you think you are exempt from God's judgment unless you
agree to be judged. Your only choice in the matter is to turn away
from evil and turn back to God so that you are not judged and punished
as evil.
Linda Lee
The Messiah had to have said that in relation to protecting themselves
from wild animals on their travels since he directed the apostles to
be as "harmless as doves" when he sent them forth to preach, so why
would they need to buy a sword to use against other people?
Here the Messiah tells Peter not to use the sword on a man in Matt.
26:52, "Then said Jesus unto him [Peter], Put up again thy sword into
his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the
sword".
Mat 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at
hand.
Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out
devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
Mat 10:9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
Mat 10:10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither
shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.
...
Mat 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as SHEEP IN THE MIDST OF WOLVES:
be ye therefore wise as serpents, and HARMLESS AS DOVES.
However, the Messiah told us to obey the laws of the land, and in at
least most states in America you are not breaking the law if you are
violent in defense of yourself or your family if they or you are under
the immediate threat of death. But vigilante violence is not exempt
from punishment.
guardian Snow
> > > You're an idiot.
>
> > You are a very intelligent lady who wants desperately
>
> LOL!!! What timing! Rod reveals himself and turns on you, and now
> you're trying to butter me up with your insincere compliments!
No, I have no need to follow your example. Rod has nothing to do with
my opinion of you. I am independent of his good opinion also, which he
is entitled to.
guardian Snow
Carry a sword does not mean use the sword.
Mat 26:52 Then יהושע said to him, “Return your sword to its place, for
all who take the sword shall die by the sword.
Mat 5:39 but I say to you, do not resist the wicked. But whoever slaps
you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.
Mat 5:40 “And he who wishes to sue you and take away your inner
garment, let him have your outer garment as well.
Mat 5:41 “And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two.
Mat 5:42 “Give to him who asks of you, and from him who wishes to
borrow from you, do not turn away.
Mat 5:43 “You heard that it was said,1 ‘You shall love your neighbour
and hate your enemy.’ Footnote: 1Hate your enemy was “said,” not
“written.”
Mat 5:44 “But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those cursing
you, do good to those hating you, and pray for those insulting you and
persecuting you,
Mat 5:45 so that you become sons of your Father in the heavens.
Because He makes His sun rise on the wicked and on the good, and sends
rain on the righteous and on the unrighteous.1 Footnote: 1Lk. 6:35,
Acts 14:16-17.
Linda Lee
> On Nov 25, 12:50 am,LindaLee<lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> > > > You're an idiot.
>
> > > You are a very intelligent lady who wants desperately
>
> > LOL!!! What timing! Rod reveals himself and turns on you, and now
> > you're trying to butter me up with your insincere compliments!
>
> No, I have no need to follow your example.
As always, you speak nonsense; I don't give insincere compliments -
you're the master of THAT. (Now according to you, I'm a "very
intelligent lady" and not a "whore".) And it's the ONLY thing you've
mastered as far as I can tell.
Oh, this must be an example of your advice to Rod:
Snowjob says to Rod, "You will find it is a common tactic to accuse
other people of the very thing you are guilty of... Excellent
thoughts." -
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.bible/msg/0adfc17f981beec2
> Rod has nothing to do with
> my opinion of you.
I suppose you think others are as dumb as you are and won't notice
that this is the first time in a year you've said anything besides
"Murderer!", "Whore!", or "Jezebel WITCH!" to me. As I said before, I
don't need your pretense of sympathizing with me, and I don't want
your false compliments; you're a manipulator pure and simple.
> I am independent of his good opinion also, which he
> is entitled to.
But you liked his opinion when you were replying to his posts to me
(in which he was calling me slut, whore, etc.) by saying he was your
"dear friend" and how much you 'appreciated' him.
From - http://groups.google.com/group/alt.bible.prophecy/msg/251a6ba855af762c
Rod says to Snowjob:
<begin quote>
"I've seen the way taught by the deity in the old testament;
Psa 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the
way,
when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that
put
their trust in him.
and perhaps murdered if they anger him even slightly...
It is ugly and murderous, and I want no part of it...and SHAME on
you for ADORING such a hellish caricature of wickedness!
You have misled yourself into believing that you serve goodness,
when in fact goodness and righteousness do not KILL, nor do they
KILL out of ANGER, as in Psalm 2:12.
> [Snowjob says] You also forget that I am under the law and my deity [YAHWEH] says
> their are times for violence.
and as in Psalm 2:12, times of murder out of anger...don't forget
this
tidbit of truth while ruminating on your blissful spirituality."
<end quote>
I guess he told you, didn't he, Snowjob? ROFLOL!!!
Linda Lee
Where did I just see that? Oh that's right, I just said it a half hour
ago in this very thread - as follows:
The Messiah had to have said that in relation to protecting themselves
from wild animals on their travels since he directed the apostles to
be as "harmless as doves" when he sent them forth to preach, so why
would they need to buy a sword to use against other people?
Here the Messiah tells Peter not to use the sword on a man in Matt.
26:52, "Then said Jesus unto him [Peter], Put up again thy sword into
his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the
sword".
Mat 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at
hand.
Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out
devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
Mat 10:9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
Mat 10:10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither
shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.
...
Mat 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as SHEEP IN THE MIDST OF WOLVES:
be ye therefore wise as serpents, and HARMLESS AS DOVES.
However, the Messiah told us to obey the laws of the land, and in at
least most states in America you are not breaking the law if you are
violent in defense of yourself or your family if they or you are under
the immediate threat of death. But vigilante violence is not exempt
from punishment.
>
guardian Snow
> I won't oppose Snow on the non-violence issue, but I would like to
Seems this statement went into the pooper!
Rod
You foolish, lying pile of baboon excrement! The heckI don't believe
in him, in fact I consider the god and some of his followers described
in psalms 2:11 and 2:12 as psychotics, and very real threats to human
life.
I would have to be a fool like you NOT to! You are SO WRONG!
> he is offended at God's
> judgment because he knows he is evil and is just a fraud/troll like
> yourself.
>
Remember the verses that talk about those calling good evil
and evil good? That would be you, and anyone that agrees with you
that I'm evil for reviling the evil described in psalm 2:11 & 12.
>
> Prov. 28:5 "Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the
> LORD understand all things."
>
>>> And you label me as evil for recognizing it ans speaking out against
>>> this evil...indeed.....
>>> You can't hide the smell of death for long....may the evil inherent in
>>> your religion die with you.
>
>> Lindaisn't even a Christian. Christians believe you must believe
>> apostle Paul, she doesn't but still practices his teaching minus the
>> stuff about woman learning in silence.
>
>
> More evidence of what a devil-boy you are.
Your post is evidence of what an idiot YOU are...the follower
of a psychotic god. I can well understand why you are as you are
now.
Christ never said that
> believers had to accept Paul in order to be saved. Do you suppose
> that all those believers whom Christ converted before Paul ever began
> preaching are not Christians? Oh I forgot; thinking is not your forte,
> and you don't care what Christ taught.
>
>> 1Ti 2:11 Let a woman learn in silence, in all subjection.
>> 1Ti 2:12 But I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority
>> over a man, rather, to be in silence.
>>
>> 1Ti 2:15 But she shall be saved in childbearing if they continue in
>> belief, and love, and set-apartness, with sensibleness.
>
> You're an idiot.
>
You're the follower of a psychotic, and likely will end up
as one of his victims...
Good luck with that....
Rod
Please don't consider what I said as turning on you. You are one of
the nicest people on usenet. We had a sharp disagreement, nothing more.
My apologies if I was out of line.
Rod
Wrong again, lying pile of goat excrement! I'm upset that you and your
"god" are still on the LOOSE, and a threat to human life. You should
be put DOWN by your own standards, and haven't been!
> Their own murderous behavior put them in prison, just like evil
> people's behavior will send them to Hell. You want to blame that on
> the lawgiver, but it is the fault of the lawbreaker who victimizes
> other people. Your sometimes nic "Psychotic Imp" suits you.
A lawgiver who is described as a psychotic Psalms 2:11 & 12. if you
doubt it, open your eyes and READ the verses until what little
intellect you possess overcomes the stupidity that has a death grip
on your ability to reason!
Eventually, even someone as stupid and homicidal as you are can
see the light of reason.
IF Psalm 2:11 and 12 are true...then ALL of US may be toast anyway,
and if it IS so, I want to die on my feet fighting that evil, not
cowering in fear of an egomaniacal psychotic as most of you will do!
Rod
And you'll believe anything you read without verifying it's
authenticity or validity, particularly when it flies in the face
of reason, as you've so deftly proven....
ASV
Psalm 2:11 Serve Jehovah with fear, And rejoice with trembling.
Psalm 2:12 Kiss the son, lest he be angry, and ye perish in the way,
For his wrath will soon be kindled. Blessed are all they that take
refuge in him.
Exo 34:6 And Jehovah passed by before him, and proclaimed, Jehovah,
Jehovah, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abundant in
lovingkindness and truth,
Exo 34:7 keeping lovingkindness for thousands, forgiving iniquity and
transgression and sin; and that will by no means clear the guilty,
visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the
children's children, upon the third and upon the fourth generation.
Main Entry: for·give
Pronunciation: \fər-ˈgiv, fȯr-\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): for·gave \-ˈgāv\; for·giv·en \-ˈgi-vən\; for·giv·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English forgifan, from for- + gifan
to give
Date: before 12th century
transitive verb
1 a : to give up resentment of or claim to requital for <forgive an
insult> b : to grant relief from payment of <forgive a debt>
2 : to cease to feel resentment against (an offender) : pardon <forgive
one's enemies>
>
>
>>> As I said before, you pray there is no hell awaiting you.
>> I have some news for you and your psychotic leader, I'm not going
>> to lay down and allow you to murder me in an overwhelming moment of
>> your madness!
>
>
> It is sad that you think you are exempt from God's judgment unless you
> agree to be judged. Your only choice in the matter is to turn away
> from evil and turn back to God so that you are not judged and punished
> as evil.
>
I'm told there is a chance that I won't have to do either. But what
has slipped beyond your ability to grasp is that I am guilty of
blasphemy of the Holy Spirit simply by recognizing that the two verses
in psalms describe a psychotic.
There is NO WAY BACK for ME, and I knew this the moment I recognized
what those verses were saying. I wouldn't return if I could.
People like you that believe Psalms 2:11 & 12 describe a loving god
are delusional, wishful non thinkers, and all of you should be dealt
with just as the law would with a psychotic on a rampage.
Rod
>>>>>>> Mat 7:2 �For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged. And
Evidently, you don't proof read your own posts....
>
> Rod says, "Prisons are filled to overflowing with murderous people
> that have been put there by laws created by psychotics like you,
> Linda." - from http://groups.google.com/group/alt.bible.prophecy/msg/d8da772584d6195e
>
> This guy is such a psycho he believes it is wrong to imprison
> murderers;
What a distortion of the truth. Does your god lie like you do?
> he thinks they should be free to murder good people!
Truly, if god is reflected in your actions, then the two of you
are liars in a very big way.
> No
> WONDER he rejects God and God's judgment on evil people.
You are to stupid to understand what you have read, and to
evil to speak the truth. A complete, delusional idiot.
>
> It makes sense that only an evil psychotic like Rod/"Psychotic
> Imp" (who rejects God because the Scriptures say God will judge and
> punish him, and he knows his deeds are evil) would appear to 'follow'
> your mess of babble and confusion for a time.
It makes you feel so good to tell these lies and cause me distress,
doesn't it??? Sure you do! Telling lies is a hobby for you, and god
will forgive you won't he? Sure, use him just as you would a door mat
and wipe your feet on his face, apologize for doing it, and walk on,
right?
guardian Snow
I have nothing to defend and you have nothing to apologize for. You
are entitled to your good opinion and to be treated with the decency
and respect that should be conveyed in the most eloquent fashion
possible.
If I am not helpful, disregard me. The sole purpose of my message is
enlightening you, not to pull you down. The teachings of the good
news is to be my brothers helper. By helping you, I help myself and
in this we see the selfish purpose of serving others and the
understanding of YAHWEH.
I also understand that we all have external forces in our life that
may cause stress and let's face it.. we all have bad days. The goal
is a destination and life is but a journey and the thing to remember
is that the destination is not what brings you happiness, it is the
journey shared. Take the long view and see short steps... a journey
of a thousand miles begins with that first step:) Come to understand
the power of belief and you would have a different perspective.
With love,
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/messianic_Yehoshua/
A public forum for those who believe.
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
Be thou the rainbow in the storms of life. The evening beam that
smiles the clouds away, and tints tomorrow with prophetic ray.
Lord Byron
http://www.isr-messianic.org/ <- download the scriptures free
or
http://messianicyehoshua.googlegroups.com/web/RNKJV.zip <--free
download of the Restored Names King James Version
Life is a gift, and it offers us the privilege, opportunity, and
responsibility to give something back by becoming more.
Rod
> �.�� �.�*��) �.�*�)
> (�.�� (�.� (Snow(.�.�*��)
>
> Be thou the rainbow in the storms of life. The evening beam that
> smiles the clouds away, and tints tomorrow with prophetic ray.
> Lord Byron
>
> http://www.isr-messianic.org/ <- download the scriptures free
> or
> http://messianicyehoshua.googlegroups.com/web/RNKJV.zip <--free
> download of the Restored Names King James Version
>
> Life is a gift, and it offers us the privilege, opportunity, and
> responsibility to give something back by becoming more.
>
>
>
Thank you
guardian Snow
> > ¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
>
> > Be thou the rainbow in the storms of life. The evening beam that
> > smiles the clouds away, and tints tomorrow with prophetic ray.
> > Lord Byron
>
> >http://www.isr-messianic.org/ <- download the scriptures free
> > or
> >http://messianicyehoshua.googlegroups.com/web/RNKJV.zip <--free
> > download of the Restored Names King James Version
>
> > Life is a gift, and it offers us the privilege, opportunity, and
> > responsibility to give something back by becoming more.
>
> Thank you
I simply followed the example of my master, he deserves the thanks for
teaching me the way of peace. My hope is that you will take this same
example to your family and be the person I know you can be, which is
kind, compassionate and loving, helpful and considerate of other
peoples needs.
You can be a healing force but first you must believe in your own
potential for greatness and goodness and only you can make that
choice. I'm just a messenger.
Live to win. Apostle Paul said:
1Co 9:24 Do you not know that those who run in a race indeed all run,
but one receives the prize? Run in such a way as to obtain it.
Ask yourself, does the person who is winning the race suddenly stop
before the finish to kick the person in last place? One of my
favorite songs says,
Runner by Manfred Mann
“Through the night, through the dawn
Behind you another runner is born
Don't look back, you've been there
Feel the mist as your breath hits the air
And it's underneath the moonlight
Passing some
Still your heart beats in the moonlight
Like a drum
And you will run your time
A shooting star across the sky
And you will surely cross the line
To pass on the flame” -
Not everybody is going to win this race but most certainly, you can be
on that winning team that comes to the truth and recognize your own
divine nature. Why do so many claim to “live in sin” which is a
present tense, self defeating negative statement of their own state?
If you are forgiven and made whole then if you are truly “one with the
spirit” you will no longer retain those old ways of thought and
perfection is within your reach but first, YOU MUST BELIEVE.
Mat 12:37 “For by your words you shall be declared righteous, and by
your words you shall be declared unrighteous.”
Words are awesome power and contain within them the very “mystery” of
life. I speak of a mystery not because it is any secret revelation
given to me but because so few understand that in reality science
shows your faith, your belief and your works can and do make you whole
and strong. As you believe, it will be done said the Messiah.
Mat 8:13 And Yehoshua said to the captain, “Go, and as you have
believed, so let it be done for you.” And his servant was healed that
hour.
So many people actually demonstrate a lack of faith and these people
do not need to be corrected or put down or even argued against because
this is not the Messianic doctrine of peace.
Simply put, if I spent all my days like some going around telling you
about all the false witnesses in the world, I would never truly obey
my Masters teachings to spread the Good News that the power of life,
forgiveness and even healing come to those who know, obey and keep to
the teachings of Torah.
I am a spiritual being with a body and connection to my source of
being, connects me to an infinite power that when understood grants me
the ability of source energy that Hebrew Scriptures names, YAHWEH. If
I spoke of the marvelous things that have manifested in my life by his
name, most would ridicule me and trample me down as a dog but this
understanding is clear, when we follow the true teachings of the Torah
and the spiritual giants of our Masters the prophets, conflict
disappears and we become one with the will of Yahweh and that source
and I say now that whether for good or evil, what we focus on will
manifest according to our belief.
So many have become slave to a dogma that says they must continue to
live in transgression of the Torah? Why would you believe you are
anything less that PERFECTION? Why believe you are unable to keep the
Torah when at it’s very core of the doctrine it says, “Do what is
right” and “Love Elohim, your neighbor and the stranger who sojourns
amongst you” for we were once strangers ourselves but now are called
to be Priest of the most high EL YAHWEH.
Mat 17:20 And Yehoshua said to them, “Because of your unbelief, for
truly, I say to you, if you have belief as a mustard seed, you shall
say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it shall move.
And no matter shall be impossible for you.”
If NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE, you are only demonstrating unbelief when you
confirm these teachings that you continue to live in sin for in it,
you deny that you are forgiven and made whole by your belief and now
should do the works accordingly as our Messiah taught, guarding ALL
that he commanded and living a life by the examples that he left for
us to follow after… only then do we understand what he taught us to
“take up your stake” and to “follow me” for in it, we understand that
we are equals with him as one brother is to another.
Mat 12:48 But He answering, said to the one who spoke to Him, “Who is
My mother and who are My brothers?”
Mat 12:49 And having stretched out His hand toward His taught ones, He
said, “See My mother and My brothers!
Mat 12:50 “For whoever does the desire of My Father who is in the
heavens is My brother and sister and mother.”
YAHWEH is not a respecter of your sex and this applies to woman as
well, that no person is left behind in this race to the finish… that
UNITY is by SPIRIT and the power of OUR WORD and so, carry your torch
and be that light, that beacon on the hill and recognize YOUR
righteousness in Yahweh and do what is right to win the race, keep
running underneath the moonlight and blaze your trail that others may
follow YOU in example. If not for yourself, do it for your children…
your friends, your family… you know what is right but first you must
believe that you are capable and put away self defeating thoughts of
imperfections and inability and truly adopt that euphemist that
President Obama made so famous that says, “Yes, WE CAN!” We can, when
we do what is right and connect to that infinite source to envision
what should be for the Torah is a Universal way of life, not a curse
to be shunned or feared.
Rom 3:31 Do we then nullify the Torah through the belief? Let it not
be! On the contrary, we establish the Torah.1 Footnote: 1See 7:12.
Establish the Torah in your life through belief because until you
actually work it by putting your beliefs into action, you have simply
gone into unbelief in your own ability to do what is right.
Mat 7:12 “Therefore, whatever you wish men to do to you, do also to
them, for this is the Torah and the Prophets.”
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
Be thou the rainbow in the storms of life. The evening beam that
smiles the clouds away, and tints tomorrow with prophetic ray.
Lord Byron
Please come post your comments at
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/messianic_Yehoshua/
A public forum for those who believe.
“You’re the voice” by John Farnham
We have
The chance to turn the pages over
We can write what we want to write
We gotta make ends meet, before we get much older
We're all someone's daughter
We're all someone's son
How long can we look at each other
Down the barrel of a gun?
Chorus:
You're the voice, try and understand it
Make a noise and make it clear
Oh-o-o-o, whoa-o-o-o!
We're not gonna sit in silence
We're not gonna live with fear
Oh-o-o-o, whoa-o-o-o!
This time
We know we all stand together
With the power to be powerful
Believing, we can make it better
Portions of this post have been reprinted from (Scriptures +1998)
version which you can download for free at
http://www.isr-messianic.org/
singin4free
Yes, I guess it did. Not intentionally, though, as you pushed the non-
violence issue right back at me in your very next post. Or have you
forgotten? Check the fourth time-sequential post of this thread. Posts
have a short half life don't they?
guardian Snow
Not at all... these post remain in archive for years and I get
responses in email long after I post them. The thing is, I want you
to talk about how you feel on this very important issue and when you
examine my post to you, I was grateful that you responded.
You keep changing the subject to issues you disagree with me about
because you are unable to justify your position on violence... so you
protect your own psyche by saying... "Your a bad man" who is trying to
trap me with your belief system rather then simply being honest. The
only person you are telling lies to is yourself.
I have no desire to harm you so why not speak on the topic and let's
work out why you feel violence is justified... let's have a serious
one to one discussion and let's test your belief system and my belief
system and really get to the core of the issue.
You are intelligent, reasonable and able to think for yourself.
Using that ability means that you can recognize truth and that’s
something very valuable in all of us. Now some of us make it a choice
that because we were raised as children to believe scriptures are all,
"The inspired word of God" that we should allow them to go
unchallenged.
Blind faith serves nobody! If as a believer, I can't reconcile truth
from a lie then it's no wonder we have so many people that don't
believe the bible.
Without Violence,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
If he who employs coercion against me could mould me to his purposes
by argument, no doubt he would. He pretends to punish me because his
argument is strong; but he really punishes me because his argument is
weak.
William Godwin
Argument is meant to reveal the truth, not to create it.
Edward de Bono
It is as absurd to argue men, as to torture them, into believing.
John Henry Newman
Linda Lee
> >>>>>>> Mat 7:2 “For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged. And
>
> > This guy is such a psycho he believes it is wrong to imprison
> > murderers;
>
> What a distortion of the truth.
Your statement could not be interpreted any other way. The posters in
ACC were right; you're simply a psychopath, a God-hater who likes to
pretend periodically he's considering become either a Christian or a
follower of YHWH.
Rod says, "Prisons are filled to overflowing with murderous people
that have been put there by laws created by psychotics like you,
Linda." - fromhttp://groups.google.com/group/alt.bible.prophecy/msg/d8da772584d6195e
Linda Lee
So you hate God; good luck with that, lunatic child of the Devil. It's
not up to you whether or not you'll be judged by God.
Luke 13:28 "There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye
shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the
kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out."
Linda Lee
> On Nov 25, 4:38 am, Rod <spa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > guardian Snow wrote:
>
> > >>>> You're an idiot.
> > >>> You are a very intelligent lady who wants desperately
> > >> LOL!!! What timing! Rod reveals himself and turns on you, and now
> > >> you're trying to butter me up with your insincere compliments!
>
> > > No, I have no need to follow your example. Rod has nothing to do with
> > > my opinion of you. I am independent of his good opinion also, which he
> > > is entitled to.
>
> > Please don't consider what I said as turning on you. You are one of
> > the nicest people on usenet. We had a sharp disagreement, nothing more.
>
> > My apologies if I was out of line.
>
> I have nothing to defend and you have nothing to apologize for. You
> are entitled to your good opinion and to be treated with the decency
> and respect that should be conveyed in the most eloquent fashion
> possible.
>
> If I am not helpful, disregard me. The sole purpose of my message is
> enlightening you, not to pull you down.
He hates and judges God and wants to be doomed and does not want
enlightened just like many people of the Devil (not that you have any
enlightenment yourself). He is here to speak against Christ and God
just as you are here to speak against God as Christ.
Rod said: "But what has slipped beyond your ability to grasp is that I
am guilty of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit simply by recognizing that
the two verses in psalms [Psa. 2:11-12] describe a psychotic. There is
NO WAY BACK for ME, and I knew this the moment I recognized what those
verses were saying. I wouldn't return if I could."
> The teachings of the good
> news is to be my brothers helper.
You certainly are his brother as you're both children of the Devil,
but The Good News is that God came to us to act as our only Saviour;
you do not teach the Good News (the meaning of the word Gospel).
Notice Christ says the 'time was fulfilled'; all of the prophesies in
the Hebrew Scriptures of God come to us as the only Saviour being
accomplished:
Mark 1:14-15 "Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into
Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The
time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and
believe the gospel."
Mat 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the
world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come".
Linda Lee
> LindaLeewrote:
> > On Nov 23, 7:04 pm, Rod <spa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> LindaLeewrote:
> >>>
>
> >> I have some news for you and your psychotic leader, I'm not going
> >> to lay down and allow you to murder me in an overwhelming moment of
> >> your madness!
>
> > It is sad that you think you are exempt from God's judgment unless you
> > agree to be judged. Your only choice in the matter is to turn away
> > from evil and turn back to God so that you are not judged and punished
> > as evil.
>
> I'm told there is a chance that I won't have to do either. But what
> has slipped beyond your ability to grasp is that I am guilty of
> blasphemy of the Holy Spirit simply by recognizing that the two verses
> in psalms describe a psychotic.
God does not destroy the spirits of good people. You are judging God
for intending to destroy evil.
>
> There is NO WAY BACK for ME,
That is not true.
> and I knew this the moment I recognized
> what those verses were saying. I wouldn't return if I could.
That is solely up to you. Your choice.
>
> People like you that believe Psalms 2:11 & 12 describe a loving god
> are delusional, wishful non thinkers, and all of you should be dealt
> with just as the law would with a psychotic on a rampage.
So you do not believe evil should be destroyed. I do not believe in
harming any living creature, human or beast, either through action
(violence) or inaction (neglect). But that does not mean I don't agree
with God's intention to destroy the evil spirits of evil people.
All of the evil in this world comes from the evil spirits of evil
people, and a realm without their influence on others sounds like
heaven to me.
God hates evil and intends to destroy it; that is his right as our
Creator. But it is not his desire to destroy his creation, so if you
do not want your evil spirit destroyed, you should repent and return
to worship of God, instead of trying to condemn and judge God for
intending to destroy evil.
AT JUDGMENT DAY:
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all
that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the
resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the
resurrection of damnation.
DEATH OF THE SPIRIT:
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is
the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was
cast into the lake of fire.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten
Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have
everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the
world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that
believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in
the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the
world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds
were evil.
NOTICE IN THE LAST COUPLE OF VERSES THAT GOD DOES NOT JUDGE MAN IN THE
FLESH ("he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil"); JUDGMENT OF
THE EVIL SPIRITS WITHIN EVIL PEOPLE DOES NOT COME UNTIL JUDGMENT DAY:
Luk 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so
did their fathers to the false prophets.
Luk 6:27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to
them which hate you,
Luk 6:28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which
despitefully use you.
Luk 6:29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also
the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy
coat also.
Luk 6:30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that
taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
Luk 6:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to
them likewise.
Luk 6:32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for
sinners also love those that love them.
Luk 6:33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank
have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
Luk 6:34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what
thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much
again.
Luk 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for
nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the
children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the
evil.
Luk 6:36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
Luk 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye
shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
Rod
> On Nov 24, 2:16 pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
>> On Nov 25, 4:38 am, Rod <spa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> guardian Snow wrote:
>>>> On Nov 25, 12:50 am,LindaLee<lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> You're an idiot.
>>>>>> You are a very intelligent lady who wants desperately
>>>>> LOL!!! What timing! Rod reveals himself and turns on you, and now
>>>>> you're trying to butter me up with your insincere compliments!
>>>> No, I have no need to follow your example. Rod has nothing to do with
>>>> my opinion of you. I am independent of his good opinion also, which he
>>>> is entitled to.
>>> Please don't consider what I said as turning on you. You are one of
>>> the nicest people on usenet. We had a sharp disagreement, nothing more.
>>> My apologies if I was out of line.
>> I have nothing to defend and you have nothing to apologize for. You
>> are entitled to your good opinion and to be treated with the decency
>> and respect that should be conveyed in the most eloquent fashion
>> possible.
>>
>
>
>> If I am not helpful, disregard me. The sole purpose of my message is
>> enlightening you, not to pull you down.
>
>
> He hates and judges God and wants to be doomed
You are verifying then that god is indeed the god described
in psalm 2:11 & 12..? You are also verifying then, that god
has no conscience, and can murder millions without the slightest
remorse ?
You can personally verify thru your own experience with him that
this Psalm 2:11 & 12 are speaking of the god whom you worship...
and that the inclusion of those verses in scripture was no mistake,
is this correct ?
> and does not want
> enlightened
Not by a psychopath, nor one of his "followers", especially a
probable psychopath such as you.
> just like many people of the Devil (not that you have any
> enlightenment yourself). He is here to speak against Christ and God
> just as you are here to speak against God as Christ.
>
> Rod said: "But what has slipped beyond your ability to grasp is that I
> am guilty of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit simply by recognizing that
> the two verses in psalms [Psa. 2:11-12] describe a psychotic. There is
> NO WAY BACK for ME, and I knew this the moment I recognized what those
> verses were saying. I wouldn't return if I could."
You have it.
Linda Lee
> On Nov 24, 1:39 pm, Rod <spa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > LindaLeewrote:
> > > On Nov 23, 7:04 pm, Rod <spa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >> LindaLeewrote:
>
> > >>> As I said before, you pray there is no hell awaiting you.
> > >> I have some news for you and your psychotic leader, I'm not going
> > >> to lay down and allow you to murder me in an overwhelming moment of
> > >> your madness!
>
> > > It is sad that you think you are exempt from God's judgment unless you
> > > agree to be judged. Your only choice in the matter is to turn away
> > > from evil and turn back to God so that you are not judged and punished
> > > as evil.
>
> > I'm told there is a chance that I won't have to do either. But what
> > has slipped beyond your ability to grasp is that I am guilty of
> > blasphemy of the Holy Spirit simply by recognizing that the two verses
> > in psalms describe a psychotic.
(I forgot a couple of things I intended to post.) Not quite,
blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is to say that the Holy Spirit in the
Messiah was an unclean evil Spirit.
The Messiah says in Mark 3:28-39, "Verily I say unto you, All sins
shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith
soever they shall blaspheme: But he that shall blaspheme against the
Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal
damnation". And Mark explains in Mark 3:30, "Because they said, He
[Messiah] hath an unclean spirit".
Notice it says all sins and blasphemies shall be forgiven to those who
turn to Christ as the "way" to salvation and eternal life.
I don't think believing God doesn't make sense and is crazy is quite
the same thing as believing God is evil, since the fact that he
doesn't make sense to you says more about you than Him. Even Job
questioned God's intentions and wondered if God hated him as an
adversary, and wondered if he had sinned, but never cursed God as
evil. Read Job Chapter 31. Doubts don't mean much.
>
> God does not destroy the spirits of good people. You are judging God
> for intending to destroy evil.
>
>
>
> > There is NO WAY BACK for ME,
>
> That is not true.
Again, it is NOT true that there is "NO WAY BACK" for you or for
anyone.
The Messiah is "the way, the truth, and the life" (eternal life)
through forgiveness of all sins.
THIS IS SALVATION AND ETERNAL LIFE:
Rod
Perhaps, and perhaps not. IF god is as you describe then yes, but if
he is not as the verses themselves proclaim, then not only may I not be
in hell, but he may be taking a closer look at some of his followers and
their lies...such would be YOU.
Of course, your rabid hatred for the truth has always outweighed your
better judgment.
Rod
>>>>>>>>> Mat 7:2 �For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged. And
That is because you are narrow minded, and suffer from
anger issues that cloud your ability to reason when you
are angry.
The posters in
> ACC were right; you're simply a psychopath,
The very fact that these same posters who have designated
me as a psychopath including you are still alive, is a testament
to their skill in building falsehoods. Were their words all true
as they claim, you would all be very dead right now.
Of course as most of us can see, you are in fact not dead as are the
others, though your brain in fact may be close to death, and I am
certainly not responsible for that, although there are a few that
may want to take the credit for it.
But as a liar, you will once again try to make something out of the
first paragraph above, but any reasonable person will conclude the
same thing, the majority of you are idiots...perhaps mingled with
and imbecile or two..but idiots nonetheless.
> a God-hater who likes to
> pretend periodically he's considering become either a Christian or a
> follower of YHWH.
Even my pretend interest has faded after seeing more of your "Bible",
Thanks, but I'll pass on being "like" your god.
>
> Rod says, "Prisons are filled to overflowing with murderous people
> that have been put there by laws created by psychotics like you,
> Linda." - fromhttp://groups.google.com/group/alt.bible.prophecy/msg/d8da772584d6195e
>
You have claimed that what I said can only be interpreted your way,
but what I said reflect the irony of murderers and would be murderers
jailed, but YOU and your god still running loose.
It is people like you that should be locked away with them.
Rod
> On Nov 24, 1:39 pm, Rod <spa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> LindaLeewrote:
>>> On Nov 23, 7:04 pm, Rod <spa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> LindaLeewrote:
>>>>> As I said before, you pray there is no hell awaiting you.
>>>> I have some news for you and your psychotic leader, I'm not going
>>>> to lay down and allow you to murder me in an overwhelming moment of
>>>> your madness!
>>> It is sad that you think you are exempt from God's judgment unless you
>>> agree to be judged. Your only choice in the matter is to turn away
>>> from evil and turn back to God so that you are not judged and punished
>>> as evil.
>> I'm told there is a chance that I won't have to do either. But what
>> has slipped beyond your ability to grasp is that I am guilty of
>> blasphemy of the Holy Spirit simply by recognizing that the two verses
>> in psalms describe a psychotic.
>
>
> God does not destroy the spirits of good people. You are judging God
> for intending to destroy evil.
Neither verse mentioned a thing about evil. Below is the entire
chapter. The only TRUE appearance of evil is in the last two verses,
and judging by those two verses I can well understand in the preceeding
verses WHY someone would FIGHT against your god.
You seem to be an exceedingly good liar..I'm sure you'll take this
as a compliment...
>
>> There is NO WAY BACK for ME,
>
> That is not true.
As far as I am concerned it IS TRUE. Now go away.
Rod
Ike E 11/23/9
"Linda Lee" <lindag...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:6a3b43e3-f3f7-41ba...@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
[snippeth]
> God does not destroy the spirits of good people.
There's that Satanic blasphemy again.
ALL men are "evil."
There ARE no "good" men, aside from Jesus.
Everything else proceeds from there--either one believes Jesus and acts on
it, or they don't, but they'll STILL be EVIL until the day of redemption,
just as Jesus said to His own Disciples, "if ye, being evil..."
Nevertheless, there's always some idiot trying to make this about THEIR
perceptions of "good" and "evil," rather than FAITH.
That's why God didn't give up on two premeditated murderers, Moses and
David--they had faith, even though they didn't always do right; and their
FAITH OVERCAME THEIR LAWLESSNESS.
One of this days, you MIGHT actually learn WHAT THE GOSPEL THAT JESUS, PAUL,
AND JOHN TAUGHT IS ALL ABOUT, antichrist.
[snippeth]
Ike
Ike E 11/23/9
[snip]
> (I forgot a couple of things I intended to post.)
It would have been better if you hadn't.
> Not quite,
> blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is to say that the Holy Spirit in the
> Messiah was an unclean evil Spirit.
Bullshit.
The blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is to DENY THE WORD to SAVE YOUR ASS...
Mr 8:35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall
lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
This is the ONLY sin unto death, which is why it's the major theme running
through John's "Revelation."
You are SO clueless...
Ike
Linda Lee
I guess self-hatred leads some to want destruction of their spirit.
Linda Lee
wrote:
> "LindaLee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote in message
>
> news:6a3b43e3-f3f7-41ba...@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>
> [snippeth]
>
> > God does not destroy the spirits of good people.
>
> There's that Satanic blasphemy again.
>
> ALL men are "evil."
More of your heresy. The Messiah taught otherwise; that good men bring
forth good things and evil men bring forth evil things (like you do
here every day):
Mat 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good
things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
Mat 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth
forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth
forth evil things.
Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall
speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Mat 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words
thou shalt be condemned.
You might remember verses 26-27 when you spout your lies about the
gospel of Christ.
Linda Lee
Excuse me, I meant verses 36-37, not 26-27.
Linda Lee
wrote:
> "LindaLee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote in message
What a moron you are. Don't you do anything but LIE?
Linda Lee
> > ACC were right; you're simply a psychopath,
> > pretend periodically he's considering become either a Christian or a
> > follower of YHWH.
>
> Even my pretend interest has faded after seeing more of your "Bible",
Thanks for confirming you're a fraud and a God-hating troll.
>
> Thanks, but I'll pass on being "like" your god.
>
>
>
> > Rod says, "Prisons are filled to overflowing with murderous people
> > that have been put there by laws created by psychotics like you,
> >Linda." - fromhttp://groups.google.com/group/alt.bible.prophecy/msg/d8da772584d6195e
>
> You have claimed that what I said can only be interpreted your way,
> but what I said reflect the irony of murderers and would be murderers
> jailed, but YOU and your god still running loose.
Oh, I see, you think murderers should be freed and non-violent
believers should be jailed.
>
> It is people like you that should be locked away with them.
You are sick.
guardian Snow
> What a moron you are. Don't you do anything but LIE?
I always find your "Christian" tactics amusing.. preachings scriptures
out the side of your mouth and ignoring them all the meantime when
they apply to you.
Mat 5:22 “But I say to you that whoever is wroth with his brother
without a cause shall be liable to judgment. And whoever says to his
brother, ‘Raka!’ shall be liable to the Sanhedrin. But whoever says,
‘You fool!’ shall be liable to fire of Gehenna.
guardian Snow
> > It is people like you that should be locked away with them.
>
> You are sick.
Live to win. Apostle Paul said:
Runner by Manfred Mann
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
Be thou the rainbow in the storms of life. The evening beam that
Rod
But YOU are STUPID......! And it's incurable, by the way....
Rod
Are you blonde?
Ike E 11/23/9
> On Nov 25, 6:33 pm, "Ike E 11/23/9" <xhermaneicklebe...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> "LindaLee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote in message
>
>> news:a281b111-f99c-45bf...@d10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
>
>> [snip]
>
>>> (I forgot a couple of things I intended to post.)
>
>> It would have been better if you hadn't.
>
>>> Not quite,
>>> blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is to say that the Holy Spirit in the
>>> Messiah was an unclean evil Spirit.
>
>> Bullshit.
>
>> The blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is to DENY THE WORD to SAVE YOUR ASS...
>
>> Mr 8:35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever
>> shall
>> lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
>
>> This is the ONLY sin unto death, which is why it's the major theme
>> running
>> through John's "Revelation."
>
>> You are SO clueless...
>
>> Ike
> What a moron you are.
And STILL the ignorant wench cackles on.
THERE IS ONLY ONE SIN UNTO DEATH, AND THIS IS IT...
Mr 8:35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it [hell in Revelation];
but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same
shall save it [death in Revelation].
One can DENY THE FAITH (which IS the "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit," idiot)
and DIE FOREVER; or they can KEEP THE FAITH, die today, and LIVE FOREVER.
That's it.
THIS is the ONE SIN no one can pray for.
It CAN'T be FORGIVEN.
Let me know when you HAVE A CLUE.
[snip]
Ike
Ike E 11/23/9
> On Nov 25, 6:30 pm, "Ike E 11/23/9" <xhermaneicklebe...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> "LindaLee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote in message
>
>> news:6a3b43e3-f3f7-41ba...@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>
>> [snippeth]
>
>>> God does not destroy the spirits of good people.
>
>> There's that Satanic blasphemy again.
>
>> ALL men are "evil."
> More of your heresy.
[snip]
Jesus to His Disciples...
Mt 7:8-11
For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to
him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him
a stone? Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
If ye then, BEING EVIL, know how to give good gifts unto your children,
how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them
that ask him?
Mr 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none
good but one, that is, God.
Ro 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God...
Ps 14:1-3
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God: They are corrupt, they
have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
The LORD looked down from heaven UPON THE CHILDREN OF MEN, to see if
there were any that did understand, and seek God.
They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is
NONE that doeth good, NO, NOT ONE.
Ike
Linda Lee
wrote:
> "Linda Lee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1b9dcf97-35e0-4f75...@a21g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Nov 25, 6:30 pm, "Ike E 11/23/9" <xhermaneicklebe...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >> "LindaLee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote in message
>
> >>news:6a3b43e3-f3f7-41ba...@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> [snippeth]
>
> >>> God does not destroy the spirits of good people.
>
> >> There's that Satanic blasphemy again.
The "Satanic blasphemy" is yours when you insinuate that God destroys
the spirits of all people, evil or good.
>
> >> ALL men are "evil."
> > More of your heresy.
>
> [snip]
Don't snip my quote, devil-child:
Matt. 12:35 "A GOOD MAN out of the good treasure of the heart
bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure
bringeth forth evil things."
There are "children of God" and "children of the devil" (and since you
claim that NO ONE CAN DO "righteousness", you are revealed in this
verse as one of the "children of the devil"):
1Jn 3:10 "In this the children of God are manifest, and the children
of the devil: whosoever DOETH NOT RIGHTEOUSNESS is NOT OF GOD, neither
he that loveth not his brother."
>
> Jesus to His Disciples...
>
> Mt 7:8-11
>
> For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to
> him that knocketh it shall be opened.
> Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him
> a stone? Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
> If ye then, BEING EVIL, know how to give good gifts unto your children,
> how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them
> that ask him?
Matt. 5:45 the Messiah said, "That ye may be the children of your
Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil
and on the GOOD, and sendeth rain on the JUST and on the unjust".
>
> Mr 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none
> good but one, that is, God.
>
> Ro 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God...
>
> Ps 14:1-3
>
> The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God: They are corrupt, they
> have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
> The LORD looked down from heaven UPON THE CHILDREN OF MEN, to see if
> there were any that did understand, and seek God.
> They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is
> NONE that doeth good, NO, NOT ONE.
Obviously, since Christ says both all are evil and also says that some
are evil and some are good, good and evil are relative to their
position in life. None of us would be here in the flesh if we hadn't
sinned against God, but those who return to God through belief in God
as the Saviour following his resurrection are called "good".
But you just stick your head back in the ground and pretend that all
believers are evil like you.
By the way, did you see where your buddy the antichrist Snowjob said
you were a "Christian demon" and "just as bad as" me in his diatribe
against all Christians?
"Ike, another Christian demon is just as bad as Linda" -
Snowjob/"guardian Snow" - http://groups.google.com/group/alt.messianic/msg/f664cfd9aefb9de3
Ike E 11/23/9
> On Nov 26, 3:09 am, "Ike E 11/23/9" <xhermaneicklebe...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> "Linda Lee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote in message
>
>> news:1b9dcf97-35e0-4f75...@a21g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
>
>>> On Nov 25, 6:30 pm, "Ike E 11/23/9" <xhermaneicklebe...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> "LindaLee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote in message
>
>>>>news:6a3b43e3-f3f7-41ba...@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>
>>>> [snippeth]
>
>>>>> God does not destroy the spirits of good people.
>
>>>> There's that Satanic blasphemy again.
> The "Satanic blasphemy" is yours when you insinuate that God destroys
> the spirits of all people, evil or good.
No, the Satanic blasphemy is when you say that "good" or "evil" people HAVE
ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God."
[snip the rest of Satan's diatribe]
Ike
guardian Snow
Let's revisit this post..
> I won't oppose Snow on the non-violence issue, but I would like to
> point out some things. Apparently Snow is advocating complete non-
> violence, which is something that many Christians agree with.
You start out on the topic of non violence and then move into strife
mode:
> However,
> his version of it stems from his belief that Jesus merely set an
> example by allowing himself to be crucified, as opposed to being a
> sacrificial offering for sin.
If people want to know what I believe, moderate several boards where
every post of significance I have ever made are for all to see and I
have a 40,000 post history in archive. So, rather then pay any
credence to important topics because they were important to the
Messiah who spoke many times on these issues... the issue is again
Snow beliefs.
Now to your credit, you did also post on the topic at hand but then
you didn't want to back up your view and then accused me of saying
violence was acceptable, which I never did. I said it was a poor
solution.
What really bothers me is that my "Compaign against violence" is
leading into more topics like suicide, abortion and the many other
violent solutions we use for our everyday problems and have a got a
single ounce of support from a single "Christian"... in 20 Christian
boards I posted to.. not a single person had a word to share that was
positive.
This is the great failure of Christanity.. no praise for it's deity..
ONLY STRIFE and no solutions to end it...
Mar 3:23 And calling them near He said to them in parables, “How is
Satan able to cast out Satan?
Mar 3:24 “And if a reign is divided against itself, that reign is
unable to stand.
Mar 3:25 “And if a house is divided against itself, that house is
unable to stand.
Mar 3:26 “And if Satan has risen up against himself, and is divided,
he is unable to stand, but has an end.
Linda Lee
wrote:
What you call Satan's diatribe were Scriptures that refute your
claims, so you hide and snip it.
Snow
> 1Jn 3:10 "In this the children of God are manifest, and the children
> of the devil: whosoever DOETH NOT RIGHTEOUSNESS is NOT OF GOD,
it would seem that there is plenty of condemnation to go around as we
read the rest of this verse you quoted!
>neither
> he that loveth not his brother."
Where is your love for Ike or your praise for your deity?
Mat 5:44 “But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those cursing
you, do good to those hating you, and pray for those insulting you and
persecuting you,
Mat 9:10 And it came to be, as Yehoshua sat at the table in the house,
that see, many tax collectors and sinners came and sat down with Him
and His taught ones.
Mat 9:11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to His taught ones,
“Why does your Teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”
Mat 9:12 And Yehoshua hearing this, said to them, “Those who are
strong have no need of a physician, but those who are sick.
1Co 5:11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone
called ‘a brother,’ if he is one who whores, or greedy of gain, or an
idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler – not even to eat
with such a one.
Mat 9:13 “But go and learn what this means, ‘I desire compassion and
not offering.’ For I did not come to call the righteous to repentance,
but sinners.”
Most of the Christians I know, speak of faith without works. They do
this because they do not understand the nature of sin. They have
subscribed to a lie that says that sin and death are a law. Yehoshua
Messiah spoke clearly about the errors of the Christian church but
because they have no desire to truly follow the Messiah, the Christian
church is a church of pure Pharisees doctrine. They follow a Pharisee
in Paul who never actually understood the Torah because he had no
desire to. Paul wanted to destroy the Church of Yahweh by his own
admission.
Gal 2:18 For if I build again the things which (I destroyed), I make
myself a transgressor.
We must first ask our self, “What have we destroyed by listening to
Paul?”
Pro 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and
reproofs of instruction are the way of life:
We are destroying the lamp that leads us, the light within it and the
way to our own life. By his many words Apostle Paul has condemned us
all to be cursed and wants to simply be open to the truth. As we go
into Deuteronomy 28, we find all these curses that have come on each
and every one of us.
Deu 28:30 “You become engaged to a wife, but another man does lie with
her. You build a house, but do not dwell in it. You plant a vineyard,
but do not use its fruit.
Cheating spouses and rampant pornography are a part of that curse.
With the institution of marriage in shambles these days, who can deny
this is in effect? 2 of 3 marriages fail because “love was cold”.
Nobody wants to stand up and be accountable and in fact this is why
they follow Paul, he gives them death by grace.
Jer 23:36 “But the message of Yahweh you no longer remember! For every
man’s message is his own word, for you have changed the Words of the
living Elohim, Yahweh of hosts, our Elohim!
The Torah is very clear in that curses take effect when we refuse to
keep the 10 commandments. The effects of this faulty belief of
“grace” without repercussions is killing the world and killing love.
If you want to have a good marriage, keep the 10 commandments... it’s
that simple. If you keep the Ten Commandments you won’t look at other
woman with lust, you will look at your wife with trust. If you want
to learn to love, first learn to HONOUR and OBEY. This applies in our
spiritual life as well as our personal relationships.
Yahweh does love you and he made Compassion the law and it’s this
compassion that the Pharisee’s never, ever understood. A Pharisee is
a man without compassion and Paul was a murderer who by his judgment
and condemnation in all his scriptures delivered men to Satan as he
wrote.
1Ti 1:20 Among these are Humenaios and Alexander, whom I delivered to
Satan, in order to be taught not to blaspheme.
Yehoshua the Messiah prayed that men be delivered from evil and Paul
delivered to evil and Christians are blinded by this contradiction
that requires you to judge “Humenaios and Alexander” and others. So
what about this compassion that Paul never saw?
Mat 5:7 “Blessed are the compassionate, because they shall obtain
compassion.
You want compassion... then you had better be first in line and
dishing it out.
Mat 9:13 “But go and learn what this means, ‘I desire compassion and
not offering.’ For I did not come to call the righteous to repentance,
but sinners.”
In this verse, we can recognize two faulty teachings of Paul. First
off, you can be righteous. The prophets say that Yahweh is our
righteousness but next he calls sinners to repent and this is a work
of faith. Need help? Pray and ask Yahweh to free you from your curse
and then OBEY HIM.
Joh 5:14 Afterward Yehoshua found him in the Set-apart Place, and said
to him, “See, you have been made well. Sin no more, so that no worse
matter befalls you.”
If you continue to disobey believing in infinite grace, it only gets
worse. Sin is death to your soul like a car accident, you might walk
away being hit by a car but the damage stays with you and it takes a
long time to heal.
Psa 7:11 Elohim is a righteous judge. And Ěl is enraged every day,
Psa 7:12 If one does not repent! He sharpens His sword, He bends His
bow and makes it ready,
Psa 7:13 And He has prepared for Himself instruments of death, He
makes His arrows hot for pursuers.
Psa 7:14 See, he who is bound with wickedness, And has conceived
trouble and brought forth falsehood,
Psa 7:15 He has made a pit and dug it out, And falls into the ditch he
made!
If you continue to sin, you are just another accident waiting to
happen and one of these times, you will have dug a ditch to deep to
climb out of... so stop digging your own grave. Just a like a car
accident can change your life and scar you forever, so it’s the same
with sin... I’ll bet many of you already have a lot of scars and
you’ve become so apathetic you look for people to hate and people that
tell you truth are a good target because we don’t hold mans tradition
that says, “Love believes all things”.. No it doesn’t... you love
your children but you know when they tell lies and you don’t love
it... it breaks your heart to hear a lie from the mouths of babes but
why do we lie to them first and teach them Santa/Satan Clause?
Men’s traditions are worthless and the Pharisee Paul is worthless.
You want compassion, LIVE IT, take it and make it your practice.
Deu 4:31 “For Yahweh your Elohim is a compassionate Ěl, He does not
forsake you, nor destroy you, nor forget the covenant of your fathers
which He swore to them.
The law of Compassion is NOT GRACE. Grace means it is forgotten by
Yahweh but if this were true, how come you still bear the scars and
wounds of ALL YOUR SINS? How come the curse is so evident in our
lives?
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from the heaven saying, “Come out
of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of
her plagues.1 Footnote: 1Jer. 51:6 & 45.
Rev 18:5 “Because her sins have piled up to reach the heaven, and
Elohim has remembered her unrighteousnesses.
Your sins are remembered and are piling up against you... suicide by
false grace. You want to live, you better stop thinking that you have
been washed clean by “faith alone” and start coming clean about what
you do, become clean.
If saving your own life isn’t enough then remember that everybody you
love, your family and your friends are all in the same collision with
sin. Your sin doesn’t just destroy you; it affects the life of
everybody you love.
Mic 6:13 “So I also, I shall smite you with a grievous wound, to lay
you waste because of your sins:
Sin is a wound and wounds take time to heal but they must be cleaned
and treated with care. The nature of our relationship with Elohim is
a marriage by blood. If you cheat on somebody you love, they may have
compassion and forgive you but do you want to take that chance?
Deu 11:1 “And you shall love Yahweh your Elohim and guard His Charge:
even His laws, and His right-rulings, and His commands, always.
Do you love Yahweh and his Torah or do you love Paul more?
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love for Elohim, that we guard His commands,
and His commands are not heavy,
Finally, why is false apostle Paul in scriptures.. Why has Yahweh
allowed this lie to continue?
Deu 13:3 do not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of
dreams, for יהוה [Yahweh] your Elohim is trying you to know whether
you love Yahweh your Elohim with all your heart and with all your
being.
Your being tested... will you pass?
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
Remember, a real decision is measured by the fact that you've taken
new action. If there's no action, you haven't truly decided.
Tony Robbins
Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path
and leave a trail. Though we travel the world over to find the
beautiful, we must carry it with us or we find it not.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua <-- please join
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/messianic_Yehoshua/
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download of the Restored Names King James for E-sword
http://www.e-sword.net/ Free bible software
If history is any indication, all truths will eventually turn out to
be false.
Dean Kamen
Linda Lee
> On Nov 28, 3:26 am,LindaLee<lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> > 1Jn 3:10 "In this the children of God are manifest, and the children
> > of the devil: whosoever DOETH NOT RIGHTEOUSNESS is NOT OF GOD,
>
> it would seem that there is plenty of condemnation to go around as we
> read the rest of this verse you quoted!
>
> >neither
> > he that loveth not his brother."
>
> Where is your love for Ike or your praise for your deity?
>
Where was yours when you were calling me whore, murderer, and Jezebel
witch, you damn HYPOCRITE?
Ike denies being my brother; I'll accept that, and of course you're
blind to the Scriptures I quoted.
Ike E 11/23/9
[snip]
> What you call Satan's diatribe were Scriptures that refute your
> claims, so you hide and snip it.
[snip to the scriptures]
Jesus to His Disciples...
Mt 7:8-11
For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and
to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give
him a stone? Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
If ye then, BEING EVIL, know how to give good gifts unto your children,
how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them
that ask him?
> Matt. 5:45 the Messiah said, "That ye may be the children of your
> Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil
> and on the GOOD, and sendeth rain on the JUST and on the unjust".
The "good" and "evil" here are defined by FAITH, not THEIR OWN WORKS.
Mr 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none
good but one, that is, God.
Ro 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God...
Ps 14:1-3
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God: They are corrupt,
they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
The LORD looked down from heaven UPON THE CHILDREN OF MEN, to see if
there were any that did understand, and seek God.
They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is
NONE that doeth good, NO, NOT ONE.
> Obviously..
...you're an idiot.
There are NONE "good" by the law except Jesus. Anyone otherwise called
"good" is by faith in God, NOT BY THEIR OWN WORKS.
That's the difference between Pharisaical legalists (such as yourself), and
the believers: The believers know their state--you heretics don't.
Lk 18:9-14
And [Jesus] spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves
that they were righteous, and despised others:
Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the
other a publican.
The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that
I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this
publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his
eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a
sinner.
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the
other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that
humbleth himself shall be exalted.
[snippeth]
Ike
Snow
> Ike denies being my brother; I'll accept that, and of course you're
> blind to the Scriptures I quoted.
Instead of quoting scriptures to everybody else, live them for
yourself and try putting them into practice. To you scriptures are a
weapon to attack everybody else and the only thing this does is expose
your low self esteem. You are an intelligent person but
unfortunately, you are only worth ignoring. Truth needs no defense
and people recognize truth when it is spoken and it is best to speak
truth.
How do we change for the better?
“Faith is an excitement and an enthusiasm: it is a condition of
intellectual magnificence to which we must cling as to a treasure, and
not squander on our way through life in the small coin of empty words,
or in exact and priggish argument.”
George Sand
In scriptures, YHWH calls on all of humanity to change, to become a
renewed creature. Humanity stuck in its old ways has used this word
of YHWH in all the wrong ways. Seeking to dominate each other rather
than themselves, they fear change. Raised into a belief system, they
spend the rest of that lifetime defending it rather than perfecting
it.
Mat 5:48 “Therefore, be perfect, as your Father in the heavens is
perfect.”
A clear example of this type of behavior are those who reject Elohim
YHWH EL Shaddai for other beliefs such as Evolution. On a regular
bases, you will find the heathens scouting around and they say the
Genesis account of scriptures is not true. I personally believe in
the 6 day creation. The very concept of evolution is CHANGE and so,
it begs the question again, Can we change?
“If you change the way you look at things, the things you look at
change.”
Wayne Dyer
When a person goes to work in a new occupation, they learn new words
and a new vocabulary as they grow and learn new ideas and
understandings. Those words establish certain ideas in the mind of
the person that uses them. This same idea carries on in our entire
life and science has established this in what is called, “Neuro
Linguistic Programming”.
Now some people have come to associate words differently and a clear
example of this is the word, “GOD”.
To some, if you said “God”, they might think of Jesus Christ and
others might think Allah, Buddha, Krishna or even the Dalai Lama.
The Dalai Lama teaches, “Open your arms to change, but don't let go of
your values.”, but what if what you value is wrong? Some men value
authority, conquest, control and money and use any means to acquire
more of it. Shouldn’t you want to let go of those values that serve
nobody but the self and in fact can be destructive forces in the
world? Do you think it’s a coincidence that the entire world worships
“God”? Ask the Muslim, Jew, Christian, Catholic or any monotheistic
worshiping person who they worship and the word always enters the
conversation even if they all mean different deities.
Ironically, each religion says that the other religions are not true
and yet they all have the same vocabulary in speaking of what they
believe except when it comes to one thing, A Name. Christians will
tell you that the Greek name of Jesus Christ is God which is ironic
when they claim he was a Jew that doesn’t have a Jewish name, as given
in Zechariah 6: 11,12.
Jew’s will say, Adonai HeShem (Lord name) or some other silly title is
the name of their creator, because they choose to bring his name to
naught by never teaching it by man made traditions.
Muslim’s say Allah is God but in all these religions, the worship of
“God” as creator is what unifies them all. The name “God” is
worshiped by all.
Rev 13:7 And it was given to him to fight with the set-apart ones and
to overcome them. And authority was given to him over every tribe and
tongue and nation.
Many people forget the, “fight of the tongue” and have submitted to
authority of false worship by use of the very words they speak that
have the power of life and death. They have forgotten:
Mat 12:37 “For by your words you shall be declared righteous, and by
your words you shall be declared unrighteous.”
Most of the time, we sit around and never really consider the power of
words in our daily life but the words we think actually relate to how
we react to any given situation and form the bases of our moral
understanding. Are you in the “favor” of YHWH, or “grace”? Grace by
implication means all is forgiven and forgotten, while favor implies
privileged opportunity.
The case for grace:
In Christian doctrine, everything on Mt. Sinai is now a “weak and
unprofitable” (Heb 7:18) mistake and now we can pick and choose “moral
laws” ourselves that we follow regardless of the fact that the
commandments were written by the hand (Exo 31:18) of the same
“perfect” creator.
YHWH chooses Israel and then proceeds to tell them, not to murder (Exo
20:13), not to sacrifice their children (Psa 106:38), not to spill
innocent blood (Deu 19:10) and then somehow in Christianity, all these
things that are evil and repugnant became an act (committed by the
Romans but blamed on the Jews) that saves the world… How do murder,
human sacrifice and the spilling of his son’s blood redeem the
world? The use of “grace” leads all who practice this faith to hate
YHWH and love “Jesus”. YHWH becomes the evil villain that commands
bad Jews who never listen, Jesus becomes savior for allowing exactly
what men shouldn’t do, be done to him and this act brings about
“grace”. Grace by murder and bloodshed…
The fruit of this grace is that they go to church on a day commanded
by church men, because somehow the unchanging “God”, changed his mind
about what he wrote. Is it a wonder why there are so many atheists
who observe Christians pretending to be self righteous and then raping
altar boys and behaving like devils in use net every day?
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Taste like a lemon to me.
The doctrine of Favor says that YHWH was always forgiving and that his
Son was sent to be a light to the world. Favor says that the perfect
offering is a spiritual offering done in communion to YHWH and that we
should worship are Father in the spirit and ask for forgiveness.
Favor says that we acknowledge our love of YHWH by keeping his Torah
as best we know how and establishing the commandments in our lives and
in return he blesses his children.
Favor says that your beliefs must become action, where as grace says
nothing different then, “Live as you please and if you believe, Ye
shall not die but shall be as God.”
The words you come to associate with your beliefs will become the
instigator of your actions. To change, you must choose to associate
new words to correspond with how you react.
“If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always
gotten. “
Tony Robbins
The clearest way to demonstrate this is by answer a simple question,
“Life is like _______” How do you fill in the blank?
If life is a game, then it might have rules and you want to win, so
you play to dominate the other players. If life is a war, then you
must determine if the people that you meet are friends or foes and
there is little room for in between. If life is a dance it might be
something wonderful and beautiful… it all depends on what you
associate to the words that gives these things it’s meaning… but can
you see where your reaction might change if you’re on either a
battlefield or a dance floor to any given situation???
Change the words you associate to something and you change the way you
feel and the way you react and behave. So, change is instant and
happens from one moment to the next and we can change and have… the
question is are you willing to change who you are and do you even want
to?
The keys to change rest in a simple passage:
Mat 7:7 “Ask and it shall be given to you, seek and you shall find,
knock and it shall be opened to you.
Mat 7:8 “For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and
to him who knocks it shall be opened.
Mat 7:9 “Or is there a man among you who, if his son asks for bread,
shall give him a stone?
Mat 7:10 “Or if he asks for a fish, shall he give him a snake?
Mat 7:11 “If you then, being wicked, know how to give good gifts to
your children, how much more shall your Father who is in the heavens
give what is good to those who ask Him!
Mat 7:12 “Therefore, whatever you wish men to do to you, do also to
them, for this is the Torah and the Prophets.
Are you asking the right questions? Questions are the control to your
life. Do you ask disempowering questions of yourself or questions
that empower you? You should ask yourself, “What would make the
biggest difference in my life? How can I bring about the change in my
life that helps me better serve YHWH?”
Change your questions and you’ll change your experience. Whatever we
ask for, we’ll get an answer to, whether it’s true or not, so ask
better questions of yourself and YAHWEH.
The most quoted remarks of President Kennedy got us to, “Ask not what
my country can do for me, ask what I can do for my country.”
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/messianic_Yehoshua/
Each friend represents a world in us, a world not born until they
arrive, and it is only by this meeting that a new world is born.
Anais Nin
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http://www.isr-messianic.org/ <- download the scriptures free
or
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua/web/RNKJV.zip <--
free download of the Restored Names King James Version
We fear to know the fearsome and unsavory aspects of ourselves, but we
fear even more to know the godlike in ourselves.
Abraham Maslow
Psa 82:6 I, I said, “You are elohim, And all of you are sons of the
Most High.
Psa 82:7 “But as men you die, And fall as one of the heads.”
Linda Lee
> On Nov 28, 2:55 pm,LindaLee<lyndalee8...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> > Ike denies being my brother; I'll accept that, and of course you're
> > blind to the Scriptures I quoted.
>
> Instead of quoting scriptures to everybody else, live them for
> yourself and try putting them into practice.
You might do the same, hypocrite.
> To you scriptures are a
> weapon to attack everybody else and the only thing this does is expose
> your low self esteem.
You're talking about yourself.
> You are an intelligent person
Now you're talking about me.
> but
> unfortunately, you are only worth ignoring. Truth needs no defense
> and people recognize truth when it is spoken
That's why no one believes you.
> and it is best to speak
> truth.
Yes. Try it sometime.
Linda Lee
wrote:
> "LindaLee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote in message
>
> news:7e0feb6b-6a48-4028...@r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>
> [snip]
>
> > What you call Satan's diatribe were Scriptures that refute your
> > claims, so you hide and snip it.
>
> [snip to the scriptures]
Matt. 12:35 "A GOOD MAN out of the good treasure of the heart
bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure
bringeth forth evil things."
There are "children of God" and "children of the devil" (and since you
claim that NO ONE CAN DO "righteousness", you are revealed in this
verse as one of the "children of the devil"):
1Jn 3:10 "In this the children of God are manifest, and the children
of the devil: whosoever DOETH NOT RIGHTEOUSNESS is NOT OF GOD, neither
he that loveth not his brother."
Matt. 5:45 the Messiah said, "That ye may be the children of your
Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil
and on the GOOD, and sendeth rain on the JUST and on the unjust".
>
> Jesus to His Disciples...
>
> Mt 7:8-11
>
> For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and
> to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
> Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give
> him a stone? Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
> If ye then, BEING EVIL, know how to give good gifts unto your children,
> how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them
> that ask him?
>
> > Matt. 5:45 the Messiah said, "That ye may be the children of your
> > Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil
> > and on the GOOD, and sendeth rain on the JUST and on the unjust".
>
> The "good" and "evil" here are defined by FAITH, not THEIR OWN WORKS.
You're obsessed about works; obviously you have no good works to
claim.
So you are saying the apostles didn't have faith ("If ye then, BEING
EVIL")?
>
> Mr 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none
> good but one, that is, God.
>
> Ro 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God...
>
> Ps 14:1-3
>
> The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God: They are corrupt,
> they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
> The LORD looked down from heaven UPON THE CHILDREN OF MEN, to see if
> there were any that did understand, and seek God.
> They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is
> NONE that doeth good, NO, NOT ONE.
>
> > Obviously..
>
> ...you're an idiot.
Statement Ike can't answer and so deleted restored:
Obviously, since Christ says both all are evil and also says that some
are evil and some are good, good and evil are relative to their
position in life. None of us would be here in the flesh if we hadn't
sinned against God, but those who return to God through belief in God
as the Saviour following his resurrection are called "good".
But you just stick your head back in the ground and pretend that all
believers are evil like you.
>
> There are NONE "good" by the law except Jesus. Anyone otherwise called
> "good" is by faith in God, NOT BY THEIR OWN WORKS.
>
> That's the difference between Pharisaical legalists (such as yourself), and
> the believers: The believers know their state--you heretics don't.
>
> Lk 18:9-14
>
> And [Jesus] spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves
> that they were righteous, and despised others:
> Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the
> other a publican.
> The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that
> I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this
> publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
> And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his
> eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a
> sinner.
> I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the
> other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that
> humbleth himself shall be exalted.
>
> [snippeth]
>
> Ike
Don't delude yourself that you are humble, Lying Ike; you are one of
the least humble people on Usenet.
Snow
> > and it is best to speak
> > truth.
>
> Yes. Try it sometime.
Is your life like a prison? Fight it out if you have a problem,
you’re not alone, we all have problems but the solution rest in how we
resolve them. You say you’re happy but I see apprehension in the
world. Ask advice and get busy pulling the weeds that grow naturally,
not just in the garden but in life. Entropy is a law that governs our
life and the life of all those around us, we all grow older and then
meet change.
I do not preach a universal faith but the fact remains that we have
laws created by YAHWEH, which are universal having come from one
source and creator. This source is spiritual and not physical where
our body dwells. We must begin to see ourselves as spiritual beings
with a body but too often we image a body with spirit. To make this
understanding clear we must first recognize the spirit of, “I AM THAT
WHICH I AM”.
Exo 3:14 And Elohim said to Mosheh, “I am that which I am.” …
You are a being created in his image and you are that which you are
but you must also recognize that you have disconnected from the
universal source of his spirit. The image is a container of your
spirit in this plain of life and the evidence of this is in this
universal truth, the brain of itself does not think! Remove the brain
from the body and like all parts of this interconnected organism, all
function ceases. What this means in the simplest form is that behind
this organism we call our brain is a thinker that is unseen like all
forces of nature such as electricity and gravity.
What this means is that electricity, which also flows through your
body has certain laws that govern where it goes just like wires in
your house make a circuit. Disconnect the wires and things start to
fail and go wrong.
The SPIRIT of Yahweh is perfect and in that perfection, our heavenly
Father has no need to change and if he did it would be to change
perfection. This same spirit was born into all of us and by entropy
diminished with every word spoken that was not of the Spirit of
Yahweh. It is for this reason that we are called to be perfect and
reborn that we reconnect with the perfect spirit of Yahweh.
At this very moment, as you read, each of us has a choice from one
moment to the next, we can reconnect to that universal spirit and
creator of all or we can rebel against the tide where the vast
majority of people reside. In our state of rebellion against his
spirit, we have made a disconnection and as a result, things go wrong,
organs fail, teeth fall out, rot and decay set in and weeds overtake
the garden.
Understanding Yahweh’s perfection resides in the fact that we all are
what we are. We have 3 choices, reconnect, disconnect further or do
nothing and allow entropy to destroy us. Reconnecting requires work
to be done and by the work that you do, you can connect others and
yourself with his set apart Spirit but the tide of humanity is in
opposition to this based in fear of change.
Rev 17:13 “They have one mind, and they shall give their power and
authority to the beast.”
The world has imprisoned itself and going against the tide of humanity
is an almost impossible task of your own.
Ecc 4:12 Although one might be overpowered, two withstand him. And a
threefold cord is not readily broken.
But it is not impossible! Even Solomon in his wisdom acknowledges
that one “might” be overpowered but not certainly.
Mat 17:20 And יהושע [Yehoshua] said to them, “Because of your
unbelief, for truly, I say to you, if you have belief as a mustard
seed, you shall say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and
it shall move. And no matter shall be impossible for you.
It is a more difficult task on your own but not impossible, no matter
is impossible by the set apart Spirit of Yahweh. Belief is the first
establishment in the laws that govern the flow of electricity through
the mind, belief of the thinker behind the physical organism of your
mind. The first obstacle in the flow of the current of electricity in
your mind begins with belief that a matter is not possible, change the
belief and you reconnect.
Beliefs come from the words we understand, which is to stand under or
over the words. The words of this understanding come from either the
tree of life or the tree of knowledge.
Psa 19:7 The Torah of [Yahweh] יהוה is perfect, bringing back the
being; The witness of [Yahweh] יהוה is trustworthy, making wise the
simple;
The first key of understanding in the scriptures is that we have only
a translation of that perfect Torah which was originally written in
what is for the most part today, a lost language, ancient Hebrew.
Altering the Torah was the first rebellion from a disconnected people
that didn’t follow it, the nation of Israel. Even the best
translations I’ve found still have many flaws and beyond that, many
ideas that were conveyed in single words are lost in a distant past.
We do not have that perfect Torah that existed and through translation
and time, knowledge has passed away from humanity. It may be that
words have changed in meaning, just as gay use to mean one was happy
and ass was a donkey but one thing is constant, the spirit of the
Yahweh EL Shaddai.
Mat 28:20 teaching them to guard all that I have commanded you. And
see, I am with you always, until the end of the age.” Amĕn.
This spirit is in you and it always has been, so while we can glean
trickles of information from translations of scriptures, we must seek
out the Spirit of YHWH.
Pro 20:27 The spirit of man is the candle of YHWH, searching all the
inward parts of the belly.
Yehoshua told you this same message in another way:
Mat 5:14 “You are the light of the world. It is impossible for a city
to be hidden on a mountain.
We can’t hide what we are; we are spirits seeking the perfection of
our creator. The same spirit that brought Lazarus back from the dead
is in you. Yehoshua breathed the same air and walked this earth in
the same fashion you and I do. The same breath he exhaled travels
this earth and in this understanding we can see that all things are
interconnected.
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua <-- join
The greatest discovery that man ever made was, that his thought has
creative power; that is, that it uses creative power. His thought, of
itself, would have no power unless it were operative through a
creative medium. We do not have to compel Law to operate; all that we
have to do is to use It. The Law of Mind is just like any and all
other laws of Being. It simply Is.
Ernest Holmes, “The Science of Mind” published 1926
Ike E 11/23/9
"Linda Lee" <lyndal...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:b520895f-e68d-4167...@v37g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 28, 1:00 am, "Ike E 11/23/9" <xhermaneicklebe...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> "LindaLee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote in message
>
>> news:7e0feb6b-6a48-4028...@r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>
>> [snip]
>
>>> What you call Satan's diatribe were Scriptures that refute your
>>> claims, so you hide and snip it.
>
>> [snip to the scriptures]
> Matt. 12:35 "A GOOD MAN out of the good treasure of the heart
> bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure
> bringeth forth evil things."
One more time for the dunce: Any "good" that can be ascribed to a man
proceeds from the "good" of the sealing of the Holy Spirit within them (i.e.
from the "heart") and NOT their works, by which ALL MEN are "evil."
[snip to the scriptures]
>> Jesus to His Disciples...
>
>> Mt 7:8-11
>
>> For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and
>> to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
>> Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give
>> him a stone? Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
>> If ye then, BEING EVIL, know how to give good gifts unto your children,
>> how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to
>> them
>> that ask him?
>
>>> Matt. 5:45 the Messiah said, "That ye may be the children of your
>>> Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil
>>> and on the GOOD, and sendeth rain on the JUST and on the unjust".
>
>> The "good" and "evil" here are defined by FAITH, not THEIR OWN WORKS.
> You're obsessed about works;
Ah, no, you are. The believers have "ceased from their works."
Damn good thing, too--"there is nothing good in man."
> obviously you have no good works to
> claim.
The righteous in Christ wouldn't claim them in the first place, dunce.
> So you are saying the apostles didn't have faith ("If ye then, BEING
> EVIL")?
When did the indwelling of the Holy Spirit come? And when did Jesus say this
to His Disciples?
>> Mr 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none
>> good but one, that is, God.
>
>> Ro 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God...
>
>> Ps 14:1-3
>
>> The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God: They are corrupt,
>> they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
>> The LORD looked down from heaven UPON THE CHILDREN OF MEN, to see if
>> there were any that did understand, and seek God.
>> They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is
>> NONE that doeth good, NO, NOT ONE.
>
>>> Obviously..
>
>> ...you're an idiot.
> Statement Ike...
Obviously, you're STILL an idiot.
"If ye being EVIL..."
Hmmmmm.
No outpouring of the Holy Spirit yet.
According to their OWN works, the Disciples were still "evil" because they
had not yet put on the righteousness of Christ.
[snippeth]
>> There are NONE "good" by the law except Jesus. Anyone otherwise called
>> "good" is by faith in God, NOT BY THEIR OWN WORKS.
>
>> That's the difference between Pharisaical legalists (such as yourself),
>> and
>> the believers: The believers know their state--you heretics don't.
>
>> Lk 18:9-14
>
>> And [Jesus] spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves
>> that they were righteous, and despised others:
>> Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the
>> other a publican.
>> The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that
>> I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as
>> this
>> publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
>> And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his
>> eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to
>> me a
>> sinner.
>> I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the
>> other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that
>> humbleth himself shall be exalted.
>>
>> [snippeth]
>
>> Ike
> Don't delude yourself that you are humble...
It is you who have deluded yourself, ye who put on the law instead of
Christ.
[snippeth]
Ike
Linda Lee
wrote:
> "LindaLee" <lyndalee8...@juno.com> wrote in message
>
> news:b520895f-e68d-4167...@v37g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Nov 28, 1:00 am, "Ike E 11/23/9" <xhermaneicklebe...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >> "LindaLee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote in message
>
> >>news:7e0feb6b-6a48-4028...@r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> [snip]
>
> >>> What you call Satan's diatribe were Scriptures that refute your
> >>> claims, so you hide and snip it.
>
> >> [snip to the scriptures]
> > Matt. 12:35 "A GOOD MAN out of the good treasure of the heart
> > bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure
> > bringeth forth evil things."
>
> One more time for the dunce: Any "good" that can be ascribed to a man
> proceeds from the "good" of the sealing of the Holy Spirit within them (i.e.
> from the "heart")
Then some are considered good, and that is why the Messiah said the
following:
Matt. 12:35 "A GOOD MAN out of the good treasure of the heart
bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure
bringeth forth evil things."
There are "children of God" and "children of the devil" (and since you
claim that NO ONE CAN DO "righteousness", you are revealed in this
verse as one of the "children of the devil"):
1Jn 3:10 "In this the children of God are manifest, and the children
of the devil: whosoever DOETH NOT RIGHTEOUSNESS is NOT OF GOD, neither
he that loveth not his brother."
Matt. 5:45 the Messiah said, "That ye may be the children of your
Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil
and on the GOOD, and sendeth rain on the JUST and on the unjust".
> and NOT their works, by which ALL MEN are "evil."
Works was not the subject, child of the Devil; it is simply your
obsession.
Ike E 11/23/9
[snip]
>> One more time for the dunce: Any "good" that can be ascribed to a man
>> proceeds from the "good" of the sealing of the Holy Spirit within them
>> (i.e.
>> from the "heart")
> Then some are considered good...
Only the believers, moron, and not because of THEIR righteousness, but
GOD'S.
That's how the various former premeditated murderers like David, Moses, and
Paul get into the Kingdom of God, while you'll be shown to the door (if you
ever even get that close) for blaspheming God and His Word, and replacing
His Gospel of Grace with your false gospel of legalism.
Ike
Linda Lee
wrote:
> "LindaLee" <lyndalee8...@juno.com> wrote in message
>
> news:79afe143-1120-4fc6...@j11g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Nov 28, 9:39 am, "Ike E 11/23/9" <xhermaneicklebe...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> >> One more time for the dunce: Any "good" that can be ascribed to a man
> >> proceeds from the "good" of the sealing of the Holy Spirit within them
> >> (i.e.
> >> from the "heart")
> > Then some are considered good...
> Only the believers, moron,
That is who I'm talking about "moron". Boy, you're dense.
So, satan, where is your evidence of your heretical notion that Christ
required anything except belief in him alone for salvation? Where is
your PROOF of your blasphemous heresy that salvation comes only
through belief in Christ
AND Paul (a requirement only contained in your ignorant lies and false
teachings)???
PAUL is NOT included in any of the following PROMISES of SALVATION
through Christ ALONE:
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the
world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that
believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in
the name of the only begotten Son of God.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?
He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father:
(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
1Jn 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from
the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall
remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
1Jn 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even
eternal life.
1Jn 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that
seduce you.
1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in
you, and ___YE NEED NOT THAT ANY MAN TEACH YOU: but as the SAME
ANOINTING TEACHETH YOU OF ALL THINGS, AND IS TRUTH, AND IS NO LIE, and
even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
1Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which
we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands
have handled, of the Word of life;
1Jn 1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear
witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the
Father, and was manifested unto us;)
1Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that
ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with
the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
1Jn 1:4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be
full.
1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye
sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father,
Jesus Christ the righteous:
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours
only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his
commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments,
is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God
perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of
Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he
hath both the Father and the Son.
SO __WHERE__ DID IT SAY ACCEPTANCE OF PAUL (OR ***ANYONE*** OTHER
THAN CHRIST) IS NECESSARY FOR SALVATION? __IT DOESN'T,__ DEVIL
CHILD.
Snow
> > Mat 7:1 “Do not judge, lest you be judged.
> > Mat 7:2 “For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged. And
> > with the same measure you use, it shall be measured to you.
> I guess you only see what you want
> to see whether it is Scripture quoted to you or a comment made to you
> personally.
It is good that you have come to this recognition for in it you
recognize my sovereignty. Your judgment does not define me, it
defines yourself and your need to be another's judge.
Jas 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Master, and He shall
lift you up.
Jas 4:11 Brothers, do not speak against one another. He that speaks
against a brother and judges his brother, speaks against Torah and
judges Torah. And if you judge Torah, you are not a doer of Torah but
a judge.
Jas 4:12 There is one Lawgiver and Judge, who is able to save and to
destroy. Who are you to judge another?
I have no desire to judge you but I have determined what is right for
myself and in this you will find that my value of you is naught and
you are only worth ignoring as you pour yourself into the void that is
the history of usenet. You are a typical Christian using words to
condemn everybody but yourself as you "quote" scriptures you think
everybody else needs to apply to life BUT YOU.
Instead of quoting Christ, be like Christ and only then will you be
heard by me.
Ike E 11/23/9
> On Nov 29, 7:50 am, "Ike E 11/23/9" <xhermaneicklebe...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> "LindaLee" <lyndalee8...@juno.com> wrote in message
>
>> news:79afe143-1120-4fc6...@j11g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
>
>>> On Nov 28, 9:39 am, "Ike E 11/23/9" <xhermaneicklebe...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>
>> [snip]
>
>>>> One more time for the dunce: Any "good" that can be ascribed to a man
>>>> proceeds from the "good" of the sealing of the Holy Spirit within them
>>>> (i.e.
>>>> from the "heart")
>>> Then some are considered good...
>> Only the believers, moron,
> That is who I'm talking about "moron". Boy, you're dense.
No, you are.
NOT BY THEIR WORKS, BUT BY PUTTING ON THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRIST through
FAITH.
That's how Moses, David, Paul and every other holy one gets by, otherwise,
they would be OUT, as in anyone else who THINKS THEY ARE RIGHTEOUS BY LAW
KEEPING.
[snippeth]
Ike