JESUS IS GOD!!!!!
Dore
NOT gods at all, but men treat them as though they were and that is what
Paul was talking about.
--
Dore
"Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
pleased"
Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in
him.
(KJV)
"Libertarius"
<"Libertarius"@The_Truth_The_Whole_Truth@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in
message news:3ee40345@shknews01...
>
>
> Dore wrote:
> >
> > No He Is Lord, for all people. It is just that some believe while others
do
> > not, but whether a person believes or not doesn't change the facts and
> > truth.
>
> ===>It does not change the facts about those other "gods", either.
> Even your own Bible says:
> 1 Corinthians 8:5-6
> "For though there be that are called gods,
> whether in heaven or on earth;
> as there are gods many, and lords many;
> yet to us there is one God, the Father,
> of whom are all things, and we unto him;
> and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things,
> and we through him."
>
> So, you see, there ARE MANY GODS, even according to the founder of
> your religion, only that FOR HIM (and for you), the "FATHER" is
> the accepted "GOD", and "Jesus Christ" is the accepted "Lord".
>
> I doubt you understand this, though it is a very clear
> statement!
>
> Libertarius
> ====================
>
> >
> > --
> > Dore
> >
> > "Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
> > pleased"
> >
> > Ps 2:12
> > 12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
> > wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust
in
> > him.
> > (KJV)
> >
> > http://dorewilliamson.com/
> >
> > "Libertarius"
> > <"Libertarius"@The_Truth_The_Whole_Truth@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in
> > message news:3ee3bf66@shknews01...
> > > ===>For some people, he is.
> > > So is Augustus Caesar, most of the Roman Emperors...
alight
"Dore" <spiri...@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:ETuFa.517$i_7...@news02.roc.ny.frontiernet.net...
> No you missed the point. Christ is GOD, and the gods that men run after
are
> NOT gods at all, but men treat them as though they were and that is what
> Paul was talking about.
Are you saying that Jesus is God our Father ?
John Ings
<"Libertarius"@The_Truth_The_Whole_Truth@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:
>Dore wrote:
>>
>> No you missed the point. Christ is GOD, and the gods that men run after are
>> NOT gods at all, but men treat them as though they were and that is what
>> Paul was talking about.
>
>===>You are missing, or rather, falsifying the point.
>Saul/Paul says no such thing. He acknowledges there are
>MANY GODS, but asserts that FOR HIM AND HIS FOLLOWERS
>there is just one. THAT is the point. -- L.
Daniel 11:39 He shall deal with the strongest fortresses by the help
of a foreign god.
And if that foreign god wasn't real, how could he help?
## Man has the True Religion---several of them!
Mark Twain
Dore
> Are you saying that Jesus is God our Father ?
Rather ONE with the Father.
--
Dore
"Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
pleased"
Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in
him.
(KJV)
"alight" <sheb...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bc63mp$1ok$8...@mws-stat-syd.cdn.telstra.com.au...
Dore
> Saul/Paul was a ROMAN. He knew that there were many gods,
> including the emperor. His denial of that would have
> made him an enemy of Rome!
> He simply acknowledges there are many gods,
> but declares that FOR HIM there is just one god and
> one lord.
Those gods were NOT REAL, they were the gods that the Romans imagined in
their own minds. Man has many gods, like money, possessions, and devils that
religions think are deity, but still even though they call them gods,
doesn't mean they WERE. There is ONE TRUE GOD. Every other god is false.
--
Dore
"Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
pleased"
Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in
him.
(KJV)
"Libertarius"
<"Libertarius"@The_Truth_The_Whole_Truth@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in
message news:3ee6966b@shknews01...
>
>
> alight wrote:
> >
> > "Dore" <spiri...@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
> > news:ETuFa.517$i_7...@news02.roc.ny.frontiernet.net...
> > > No you missed the point. Christ is GOD, and the gods that men run
after
> > are
> > > NOT gods at all, but men treat them as though they were and that is
what
> > > Paul was talking about.
>
> ===>NONSENSE!
> That is just your interpretation.
> He clearly says "there are gods many,
> and lords many", NOT what YOU are saying AT ALL, i.e.
> that
> "the gods that men run after are
> NOT gods at all, but men treat them as though they were".
>
> YOU said that, HE DID NOT!
> You are a LIAR AND A FALSIFIER OF THE BIBLE!
>
> The FACTS are:
>
> Saul/Paul was a ROMAN. He knew that there were many gods,
> including the emperor. His denial of that would have
> made him an enemy of Rome!
> He simply acknowledges there are many gods,
> but declares that FOR HIM there is just one god and
> one lord.
>
> Libertarius
> =====================
Dore
imagined to be their gods. They have NO power, other than what Satan uses to
deceive them with. Today, man's god is money, but that doesn't make money a
god.
--
Dore
"Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
pleased"
Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in
him.
(KJV)
"Libertarius"
<"Libertarius"@The_Truth_The_Whole_Truth@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in
message news:3ee6b32f$2@shknews01...
>
>
> Dore wrote:
> >
> > No you missed the point. Christ is GOD, and the gods that men run after
are
> > NOT gods at all, but men treat them as though they were and that is what
> > Paul was talking about.
>
Dore
> ===>See the Stele of king Mesha of Moab.
> His god, CHEMOSH, told him to attack Israel
> and helped him defeat the king of Israel and
> carry off the Temple treasures of YHWH.
And that god was a devil, NOT GOD.
you wrote.
>
> But that is just one interesting example.
> In fact there are HUNDREDS, if not THOUSANDS of
> "GODS" people worship or have worshipped..
> One of them certainly is JESUS!
And those hundreds of gods that man worships, doesn't MEAN that they are
truly gods, just what man has created them to be. JESUS IS THE SON OF THE
ONLY TRUE GOD OF GODS, the CREATOR of the Universe and all things. Jesus is
ONE with the MOST HIGH GOD, which is the ONLY GOD that reigns with ALL
authority and power. ALL others are FALSE gods.
--
Dore
"Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
pleased"
Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in
him.
(KJV)
"Libertarius"
<"Libertarius"@The_Truth_The_Whole_Truth@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in
message news:3ee7c54e@shknews01...
> ===>See the Stele of king Mesha of Moab.
> His god, CHEMOSH, told him to attack Israel
> and helped him defeat the king of Israel and
> carry off the Temple treasures of YHWH.
>
> But that is just one interesting example.
> In fact there are HUNDREDS, if not THOUSANDS of
> "GODS" people worship or have worshipped..
> One of them certainly is JESUS!
>
> Libertarius
> ====================
Jesus Is Lord
alight
> you wrote.
>
> > Are you saying that Jesus is God our Father ?
>
> Rather ONE with the Father.
And who is God and who is Jesus ?
Dore
God, for they are ONE.
--
Dore
"Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
pleased"
Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in
him.
(KJV)
"alight" <sheb...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bctrq9$5u0$8...@mws-stat-syd.cdn.telstra.com.au...
Libertarius
Dore wrote:
>
> God is the Father, and Jesus was/is the Son, who became flesh, who are both
> God, for they are ONE.
===>1+1=1?
Go back to Kindergarted.
Libertarius
Jesus Is Lord wrote:
>
> ONLY ONE GOD JESUS!!!!! AMEN
===>For you Jesus is "GOD".
Saul/Paul acknowledges there are MANY GODS,
but asserts that FOR HIM AND HIS FOLLOWERS
there is just one "God" and one "Lord".
That makes it TWO ENTITIES! -- L.
Diana Burgess
Lib,
You are right. There are many gods BUT the One True God(which is NOT
Jesus for to worship Jesus as God is an abomination and
unscriptural)through the book of Zephania told us they were human
gods.
11] The LORD will be terrible unto them: for he will famish all the
gods of the earth; and men shall worship him, every one from his
place, even all the isles of the heathen.
See? If they were supernatural gods
1. God couldn't starve(famish) them as they would have no need of
food.
and
2. It states they are the gods of the earth.
Human gods.
And may I say it is very heartening to see you using the bible to
state your case.You have obviously changed your mind about the degree
of faith we should put in the writings of the bible.
Prayers answered?
Diana Burgess
> God is the Father, and Jesus was/is the Son, who became flesh, who are both
> God, for they are ONE.
>
> --
> Dore
One in their desire to have us all one with them? Or one in that God
and Jesus are the same person?
Libertarius
Diana Burgess wrote:
>
> Libertarius <"Libertarius"@The_Truth_The_Whole_Truth@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message news:<UyKdnX0nTPj...@comcast.com>...
> > Jesus Is Lord wrote:
> > >
> > > ONLY ONE GOD JESUS!!!!! AMEN
> >
> > ===>For you Jesus is "GOD".
> >
> > Saul/Paul acknowledges there are MANY GODS,
> > but asserts that FOR HIM AND HIS FOLLOWERS
> > there is just one "God" and one "Lord".
> > That makes it TWO ENTITIES! -- L.
>
> Lib,
> You are right. There are many gods BUT the One True God
===>Every one of those is "the one true god" for the
believer in THAT "GOD".
(which is NOT
> Jesus for to worship Jesus as God is an abomination and
> unscriptural)
===>"Scripture" is a compilation of writings by a bunch of
ancient authors who simply expressed their own ides,
opinions, speculations and fantasies -- even their
nightmares. Those ideas vary so much that they have been
the basis for hundreds of beliefs, from strict Hebrew
monotheism to dualistic Judaism, Unitarianism, Arianism,
Trinitarianism, "Oneness" Pentecostalism, Mormonism,
etc., etc., etc.... ALL claiming to be based on the
"Scripture". Practically ANYTHING, including the "worship
of Jesus as God" can be "scriptural").
through the book of Zephania told us they were human
> gods.
>
> 11] The LORD will be terrible unto them: for he will famish all the
> gods of the earth; and men shall worship him, every one from his
> place, even all the isles of the heathen.
===>That was the fantasy of ONE of those writers.
>
> See? If they were supernatural gods
> 1. God couldn't starve(famish) them as they would have no need of
> food.
> and
> 2. It states they are the gods of the earth.
===>So, what? Why would anyone have to accept the fantasy of
someone called "Zephenia"???
>
> Human gods.
===>Human authors!
You don't understand the Bible!
>
> And may I say it is very heartening to see you using the bible to
> state your case.You have obviously changed your mind about the degree
> of faith we should put in the writings of the bible.
===>"Faith" is FOLLY!
I use the Bible for documentation, as I would ANY OTHER BOOK! -- L.
Libertarius
===>It depends on the kind of indoctrination you received! ;-)
alight
> God is the Father, and Jesus was/is the Son, who became flesh, who are
both
> God, for they are ONE.
ONE what? one fish? one tooth ?
You have great error.
They are not both God, there is only ONE TRUE GOD.
John 17:1 After Jesus had spoken these words, he looked up to heaven and
said, "Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son so that the Son may
glorify you, 2 since you have given him authority over all people, to give
eternal life to all whom you have given him. 3 And this is eternal life,
that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have
sent.
This is life eternal, that YOU might know the only true God, AND Jesus
Christ whom the only true God sent.
God is the Father.
Jesus was? Jesus is the Father's son.
there is only ONE true God, The Father.
and have you not read:
1 corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all
things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are
all things and through whom we exist.
ONE God the Father! stop spreading lies in the name of Jesus Christ. I
COMMAND you in the name of Jesus Christ to to come out of her!!
alight
"Libertarius"
<"Libertarius"@The_Truth_The_Whole_Truth@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in
Amen :-)
Diana Burgess
Sounds like religion to me. What have I told you about worrying about
religion?
Religion is the abomination that makes desolate.
>
> through the book of Zephania told us they were human
> > gods.
> >
> > 11] The LORD will be terrible unto them: for he will famish all the
> > gods of the earth; and men shall worship him, every one from his
> > place, even all the isles of the heathen.
>
> ===>That was the fantasy of ONE of those writers.
Fantasy or inspiration. Is there much difference?
> >
> > See? If they were supernatural gods
> > 1. God couldn't starve(famish) them as they would have no need of
> > food.
> > and
> > 2. It states they are the gods of the earth.
>
> ===>So, what? Why would anyone have to accept the fantasy of
> someone called "Zephenia"??
So what? It proves that the gods were human that is all?
>
> >
> > Human gods.
>
> ===>Human authors!
> You don't understand the Bible!
Of course they were human authors. But it is where they got their
inspiration from that is important.
> > And may I say it is very heartening to see you using the bible to
> > state your case.You have obviously changed your mind about the degree
> > of faith we should put in the writings of the bible.
>
> ===>"Faith" is FOLLY!
> I use the Bible for documentation, as I would ANY OTHER BOOK! -- L.
Tell me, Lib how can a book full of lies and stories and
inconsistencies be used for documentation? How do you determine for
your own use that which is consistent
and inconsistent, that which is lies and stories against that which is
truth.
You used Pauls quote that there is more than one god to prove your
point. How did you determine that Paul's words were truth? Is it
possible that what Paul said was fake and inconsistent with the rest
of the bible......oh except it wasn't was it? As we have the quote
from Zephaniah to back it up. That makes Pauls quote consistent then
does it not?
Whats this, a consistency in the bible?
Sarah Kanary
<"Libertarius"@The_Truth_The_Whole_Truth@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in
LB, I have a question that maybe you'll be able to answer.... Quite a simple
one, but so far it has been ignored, no matter how many times I ask it....
If you were trying to teach someone that two persons were equal, what family
relationship would you use to illustrate?
Peace to you from a subject of the Prince of Peace.
--
Luke 6:45 - "A good man brings forth good
out of the good treasure of his heart."
http://www.watchtower.org/
Libertarius
alight wrote:
>
> "Dore" <spiri...@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
> news:9CuIa.7827$oD....@news02.roc.ny.frontiernet.net...
> > God is the Father, and Jesus was/is the Son, who became flesh, who are
> both
> > God, for they are ONE.
>
> ONE what? one fish? one tooth ?
>
> You have great error.
>
> They are not both God, there is only ONE TRUE GOD.
===>You speak for yourself.
For many others, there are two, three, even more. -- L.
Libertarius
===>A man...
And two gods. ;-)
Libertarius
===>Or the desolation that makes abominable???
>
> >
> > through the book of Zephania told us they were human
> > > gods.
> > >
> > > 11] The LORD will be terrible unto them: for he will famish all the
> > > gods of the earth; and men shall worship him, every one from his
> > > place, even all the isles of the heathen.
> >
> > ===>That was the fantasy of ONE of those writers.
>
> Fantasy or inspiration. Is there much difference?
===>Only in recognizing who is the subject and who the object.
If a fantasy is attributed to an external source, it is
called "inspiration".
> > >
> > > See? If they were supernatural gods
> > > 1. God couldn't starve(famish) them as they would have no need of
> > > food.
> > > and
> > > 2. It states they are the gods of the earth.
> >
> > ===>So, what? Why would anyone have to accept the fantasy of
> > someone called "Zephenia"??
>
> So what? It proves that the gods were human that is all?
===>Only that ZEPHENIA THOUGHT they were human.
> >
> > >
> > > Human gods.
> >
> > ===>Human authors!
> > You don't understand the Bible!
>
> Of course they were human authors. But it is where they got their
> inspiration from that is important.
===>They had a fantasy, and attributing it to YHWH, called it
"inspiration"?
>
> > > And may I say it is very heartening to see you using the bible to
> > > state your case.You have obviously changed your mind about the degree
> > > of faith we should put in the writings of the bible.
> >
> > ===>"Faith" is FOLLY!
> > I use the Bible for documentation, as I would ANY OTHER BOOK! -- L.
>
> Tell me, Lib how can a book full of lies and stories and
> inconsistencies be used for documentation?
===>MEIN KAMPF, DAS KAPITAL, other books full of lies can be used for
documentation, so why not the Bible?
How do you determine for
> your own use that which is consistent
> and inconsistent, that which is lies and stories against that which is
> truth.
===>It is called critical reading and reading comprehension.
> You used Pauls quote that there is more than one god to prove your
> point.
===>Only to prove that he said that, that it IS in the Bible.
How did you determine that Paul's words were truth?
===>When did I say it was "truth"???
Is it
> possible that what Paul said was fake and inconsistent with the rest
> of the bible......
===>Of course it is. As I stated many a time, each author
compiled in the Bible had his own ideas, opinions, speculations
and fantasies. It is not THEIR fault that some priests combined
them in one book and some credulous believers think they came
from "GOD".
oh except it wasn't was it? As we have the quote
> from Zephaniah to back it up. That makes Pauls quote consistent then
> does it not?
===>No.
> Whats this, a consistency in the bible?
===>Not in this case.
Libertarius
Sarah Kanary wrote:
>
> "Libertarius"
> <"Libertarius"@The_Truth_The_Whole_Truth@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in
> message news:lv2dnb8nEds...@comcast.com...
> >
> >
> > Diana Burgess wrote:
> > >
> > > "Dore" <spiri...@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
> news:<9CuIa.7827$oD....@news02.roc.ny.frontiernet.net>...
> > > > God is the Father, and Jesus was/is the Son, who became flesh, who are
> both
> > > > God, for they are ONE.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Dore
> > >
> > > One in their desire to have us all one with them? Or one in that God
> > > and Jesus are the same person?
> >
> > ===>It depends on the kind of indoctrination you received! ;-)
>
> LB, I have a question that maybe you'll be able to answer.... Quite a simple
> one, but so far it has been ignored, no matter how many times I ask it....
>
> If you were trying to teach someone that two persons were equal, what family
> relationship would you use to illustrate?
===>NONE! As my Physiology professor pointed out many years ago in grad
school,
NO TWO PERSONS ARE EQUAL. Not even "identical" twins. Not even clones!
Not even physiologically, i.e. in NATURE, let alone in experience, i.e.
in
NURTURE. Even if there was a clone of YHWH, if that clone became a man,
lived the existence of an earthling, that would have made him a VERY
DIFFERENT
person BOTH in nature AND in terms of nurture/experience.
Hope this answers your question.
As Ferenc David, founder of Unitarianism said some four centuries ago,
it is absurd to thing that God is a trio!
Libertarius
====================
Sarah Kanary
<"Libertarius"@The_Truth_The_Whole_Truth@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in
> > LB, I have a question that maybe you'll be able to answer.... Quite a
simple
> > one, but so far it has been ignored, no matter how many times I ask
it....
> >
> > If you were trying to teach someone that two persons were equal, what
family
> > relationship would you use to illustrate?
>
> ===>NONE! As my Physiology professor pointed out many years ago in grad
> school,
> NO TWO PERSONS ARE EQUAL. Not even "identical" twins. Not even clones!
> Not even physiologically, i.e. in NATURE, let alone in experience, i.e.
> in
> NURTURE. Even if there was a clone of YHWH, if that clone became a man,
> lived the existence of an earthling, that would have made him a VERY
> DIFFERENT
> person BOTH in nature AND in terms of nurture/experience.
>
> Hope this answers your question.
Not really. I was speaking of authority, rank, that sort of thing, not
genetics or experience. If you were trying to explain that two persons had
EQUAL authority, EQUAL rank, and possibly EQUAL age thrown in for good
measure...what *family* relationship would you use to illustrate?
Libertarius
===>NONE.
There has never been such an "equality".
It is impossible.
Not even two personalities embedded in one individual afflicted with
MDA can be "equal".
Trinitarians falsely interpret the idea of "oneness" of two or more
persons as "equality". A soldier may feel "oneness" with his commanding
officer, but he would not be his "equal" in any sense of that term.
Husband and wife are "one" in marriage, but by no means can they be
"equal".
Is this better? -- L.
Sarah Kanary
<"Libertarius"@The_Truth_The_Whole_Truth@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in
Close. Like most analytical minds, sometimes yours over-analyzes something
simple into something complicated.
I guess I will just make some observations about family relationships....
Most children are considered subordinate to their parents. Now, the
firstborn among those children might be considered 'head honcho' *among the
children* but of course is never considered 'equal' to their father.
No son is his own father. No son is the same age as his father. No son
'breaks off' from his father, travels light years away, dies, (but not
really) while all the time being his father. No son has long conversations
with his father, looks in the direction of his father and calls out to him,
while all the time being his father.
See? :-)
Dore
John 10:30
30 I and my Father are one.
(KJV)
John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was
God.
(KJV)
John 1:14
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his
glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and
truth.
(KJV)
--
Dore
"Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
pleased"
Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in
him.
(KJV)
"Diana Burgess" <nbur...@powerup.com.au> wrote in message
news:5a0880e0.03062...@posting.google.com...
Dore
plate, does that mean that the slice is NO longer cake?
--
Dore
"Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
pleased"
Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in
him.
(KJV)
"Libertarius"
<"Libertarius"@The_Truth_The_Whole_Truth@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in
message news:OcCdnX83SY9...@comcast.com...
Dore
--
Dore
"Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
pleased"
Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in
him.
(KJV)
"alight" <sheb...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3ef4feab$0$5434$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Dore
--
Dore
"Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
pleased"
Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in
him.
(KJV)
"Libertarius"
<"Libertarius"@The_Truth_The_Whole_Truth@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in
message news:UyKdnX0nTPj...@comcast.com...
Diana Burgess
> John 10:30
> 30 I and my Father are one.
> (KJV)
>
>
> John 1:1
> 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was
> God.
> (KJV)
>
>
> John 1:14
> 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his
> glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and
> truth.
> (KJV)
>
>
Matt.19
[17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none
good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the
commandments.
Mark.10
[18] And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none
good but one, that is, God.
Luke.18
[19] And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good,
save one, that is, God.
John 14.
10] Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?
the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father
that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
John 17
[1] These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and
said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may
glorify thee:
[2] As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give
eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
[3] And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true
God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
[4] I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which
thou gavest me to do.
[5] And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the
glory which I had with thee before the world was.
[21] That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in
thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that
thou hast sent me.
[22] And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they
may be one, even as we are one:
[23] I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one;
and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved
them, as thou hast loved me.
The whole of John 17 denies trinity.
You have misunderstood what the meaning of "the Word" is. All the
angels are "the Word". in Revelations we are told that the angels
shout the praises of God all the time nonstop. This is "the Word". It
explains to us that as an angel Jesus was with GOd from the beginning.
There are many Sons of God. The OT tells us that. But only One was
begotten.....only One came here with the message and the answer to
eternal life.....Jesus. And His reward? Us.An Earthly kingdom when He
returns.
Jesus denied He was God.
Matthew
16:15He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16:16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son
of the living God.
16:17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon
Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my
Father which is in heaven.
Matthew
12:31Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall
be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall
not be forgiven unto men.
12:32And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be
forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall
not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to
come.
Even the unclean spirits that Jesus exorcised knew who HE was.
Mark
5:2And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out
of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
5:3Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him,
no, not with chains:
5:4Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and
the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in
pieces: neither could any man tame him.
5:5And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the
tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.
5:6But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
5:7And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee,
Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that
thou torment me not.
5:8For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.
John
10:33The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not;
but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself
God.
10:34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said,
Ye are gods?
10:35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the
scripture
cannot be broken;
10:36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the
world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
It must grieve Jesus so to see this thing called trinity taking away
so many from the truth.
Mark 12
[32] And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the
truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
[33] And to love him with all the heart, and with all the
understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and
to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt
offerings and sacrifices.
[34] And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him,
Thou art not far from the kingdom of God.
alight
> If you have a cake, and you take a slice of that cake and place it on a
> plate, does that mean that the slice is NO longer cake?
MK 12:28 One of the scribes came near and heard them disputing with one
another, and seeing that he answered them well, he asked him, "Which
commandment is the first of all?" 29 Jesus answered, "The first is, 'Hear, O
Israel: the Lord our God, the Lord is one; 30 you shall love the Lord your
God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and
with all your strength.'
32 Then the scribe said to him, "You are right, Teacher; you have truly said
that 'he is one, and besides him there is no other';
! COR 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things
and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all
things and through whom we exist.
GAL 3:20 Now a mediator involves more than one party; but God is one.
EPH 4: 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all,
1 TIM 2:5 For
there is one God;
there is also one mediator between God and humankind,
Christ Jesus, himself human,
JAM 2:19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons
believe--and shudder.
JN 8:39 They answered him, "Abraham is our father." Jesus said to them,
"If you were Abraham's children, you would be doing what Abraham did, 40 but
now you are trying to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard
from God.
MK 10:17 As he was setting out on a journey, a man ran up and knelt
before him, and asked him, "Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal
life?" 18 Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but
God alone.
john 14:28 You heard me say to you, 'I am going away, and I am coming to
you.' If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father,
because the Father is greater than I.
alight
>
> John 10:30
> 30 I and my Father are one.
> (KJV)
ONE translated from the greek word "hen", which means one in purpose, not
one in essence.
>
>
> John 1:1
> 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was
> God.
> (KJV)
the correct translation from the greek :
John 1:1 in beginning was the word, and the word was with the God, and God
was the word.
2 times it says God, one with an article one and the other without an
article, if you know your english grammer you will
know what an article is.
1st instance "the God",, the is the article. from the greek word "ton"
2nd instant "God",, no article in the greek. if it was talking about THE
God it would have "O theos" but O is not written for a reason cause its not
talking about THE God.
hence 1st instant it is talking about THE God, 2nd instant cause it lacks an
article, its specifically not talking about the God our Father.
Follow a translation and u have many errors.
>
>
> John 1:14
> 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his
> glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and
> truth.
> (KJV)
only begotten yes, cause it goes with
COL 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all
creation;
Invisible God..
Jesus is the 1st born of all creation.
HEB 1:6 And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says,
"Let all God's angels worship him."
Libertarius
Sarah Kanary wrote:
===>Isn't that what I said? ;-) -- L.
Libertarius
Dore wrote:
> If you have a cake, and you take a slice of that cake and place it on a
> plate, does that mean that the slice is NO longer cake?
===>Not the WHOLE CAKE!
In fact the whole cake no longer exists!
And then, after you eat it and digest it...
it is a "cake" of a different color (and odor). ;-) -- L.
alight
> One Spirit, One mind, One authority, One truth, One righteousness, ONE
GOD.
1 timothy 6:16 It is he alone who has immortality and dwells in
unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see; to him be honor
and eternal dominion. Amen.
Matthew 27:46 And about three o'clock Jesus cried with a loud voice, "Eli,
Eli, lema sabachthani?" that is, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
John 20:17 Jesus said to her, "Do not hold on to me, because I have not yet
ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, 'I am
ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' "
alight
> And those two entities are the ONE and same God.
False.
God is one.
Who is the God of Jesus Christ and the Father of Jesus Christ.
Jesus is God's son. Amen.
Whoever denies God's son, shall be denied before Jesus's God and his Father.
Dore
the Son or a separate individual according to His will and purpose. Just
like the angels that appeared to Moses in the burning bush and Jacob who
fought with the angel, both were ONE WITH GOD, AS GOD, at the time of their
appearing. So it is with the Son. At the appropriate times, the Son is
separated as an individual for a certain purpose and other times, as GOD
Himself for other purposes. So you can quote scriptures all day, showing the
times of separation, but that doesn't mean at other times, that Christ is
NOT God, Himself.
--
Dore
"Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
pleased"
Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in
him.
(KJV)
"alight" <sheb...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3efd0191$0$5428$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Dore
Obviously, you don't understand the power and abilities of God. Anyone who
denies the SON, being the Word, GOD, made flesh, will NOT see the kingdom.
You think of one in carnal terms, not in spiritual terms, and certainly not
with the Holy Spirit of truth, which you also deny is God, therefore
blaspheming Him, therefore incapable of knowing GOD, personally, intimately,
purely, closely and righteously.
--
Dore
"Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
pleased"
Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in
him.
(KJV)
"alight" <sheb...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3efd026f$0$5434$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
alight
> As I have repeatedly stated, that the Father has the ability to be ONE
with
> the Son or a separate individual according to His will and purpose. Just
> like the angels that appeared to Moses in the burning bush and Jacob who
> fought with the angel, both were ONE WITH GOD, AS GOD, at the time of
their
> appearing. So it is with the Son. At the appropriate times, the Son is
> separated as an individual for a certain purpose and other times, as GOD
> Himself for other purposes. So you can quote scriptures all day, showing
the
> times of separation, but that doesn't mean at other times, that Christ is
> NOT God, Himself.
Christ is the son of God, the only one born from God.
It is written:
MK 10:17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running,
and kneeled to him, and asked him, good teacher, what shall I do that I may
inherit eternal life? 18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good?
none good but one, God.
It is written:
No man has seen God or can see him.
It is written:
1 corinthians 15:
20And now, Christ hath risen out of the dead--the first-fruits of those
sleeping he became, 21for since through man is the death, also through man
is a rising again of the dead, 22for even as in Adam all die, so also in the
Christ all shall be made alive, 23and each in his proper order, a
first-fruit Christ, afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence,
24then--the end, when he may deliver up the reign to God, even the Father,
when he may have made useless all rule, and all authority and power-- 25for
it behoveth him to reign till he may have put all the enemies under his
feet-- 26the last enemy is done away--death; 27for all things He did put
under his feet, and, when one may say that all things have been subjected,
evident that He is excepted who did subject the all things to him, 28and
when the all things may be subjected to him, then the Son also himself shall
be subject to Him, who did subject to him the all things, that God may be
the forever in all.
It is written whoever denies the Son does not have the Father, therefore
since you deny God's Son you do not have the Father.
Now go away Satan in the name of Jesus Christ, you are a stumbling block to
the children of God. because you dont mind the things of God but the things
of the world.
Libertarius
>
> It is written:
>
> No man has seen God or can see him.
Exodus 33:11
Thus the LORD used to speak to Moses face to face,
just as a man speaks to his friend.
Diana Burgess
> Obviously, you don't understand the power and abilities of God. Anyone who
> denies the SON, being the Word, GOD, made flesh, will NOT see the kingdom.
> You think of one in carnal terms, not in spiritual terms, and certainly not
> with the Holy Spirit of truth, which you also deny is God, therefore
> blaspheming Him, therefore incapable of knowing GOD, personally, intimately,
> purely, closely and righteously.
>
> --
> Dore
>
Please give us your interpretation of the following scripture.....
21] That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in
thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that
thou hast sent me.
[22] And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they
may be one, even as we are one:
[23] I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one;
and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved
them, as thou hast loved me.
With the thinking that God and Jesus are one and the same do these
verses mean that WE are ALL to become God?????
Diana Burgess
> Obviously, you don't understand the power and abilities of God. Anyone who
> denies the SON, being the Word, GOD, made flesh, will NOT see the kingdom.
> You think of one in carnal terms, not in spiritual terms, and certainly not
> with the Holy Spirit of truth, which you also deny is God, therefore
> blaspheming Him, therefore incapable of knowing GOD, personally, intimately,
> purely, closely and righteously.
>
Here is the truth of the matter Dore. This is what Jesus gave to His
disciples to teach us.
1John 4
[14] And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to
be the Saviour of the world.
[15] Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God
dwelleth in him, and he in God.
Diana Burgess
> Obviously, you don't understand the power and abilities of God. Anyone who
> denies the SON, being the Word, GOD, made flesh, will NOT see the kingdom.
> You think of one in carnal terms, not in spiritual terms, and certainly not
> with the Holy Spirit of truth, which you also deny is God, therefore
> blaspheming Him, therefore incapable of knowing GOD, personally, intimately,
> purely, closely and righteously.
>
>
Her is the truth of the matter Dore. Her eis waht Jesus gave to the
disciples to teach us..
Diana Burgess
> alight wrote:
>
> >
> > It is written:
> >
> > No man has seen God or can see him.
Exodus
33:9And it came to pass, as Moses entered into the tabernacle, the
cloudy pillar descended, and stood at the door of the tabernacle, and
the LORD talked with Moses.
33:10And all the people saw the cloudy pillar stand at the tabernacle
door:
and all the people rose up and worshipped, every man in his tent door.
> Exodus 33:11
> Thus the LORD used to speak to Moses face to face,
> just as a man speaks to his friend.
IN A CLOUDY PILLAR.
No wonder you think the bible is full of inconsistencies Lib. You will
if you only read one verse.I think you had better change your name to
Literalarius.
It better suits the way you read things.
Pss.99
[7] He spake unto them in the cloudy pillar: they kept his
testimonies, and the ordinance that he gave them.
Libertarius
>
> Libertarius <The_Truth_The_Whole_Truth@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message news:<cc50cf6fa1694615...@news.scbiz.com>...
> > alight wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > It is written:
> > >
> > > No man has seen God or can see him.
>
> Exodus
> 33:9And it came to pass, as Moses entered into the tabernacle, the
> cloudy pillar descended, and stood at the door of the tabernacle, and
> the LORD talked with Moses.
> 33:10And all the people saw the cloudy pillar stand at the tabernacle
> door:
> and all the people rose up and worshipped, every man in his tent door.
> > Exodus 33:11
> > Thus the LORD used to speak to Moses face to face,
> > just as a man speaks to his friend.
>
> IN A CLOUDY PILLAR.
>
> No wonder you think the bible is full of inconsistencies Lib. You will
> if you only read one verse.I think you had better change your name to
> Literalarius.
> It better suits the way you read things.
===>No wonder you make such silly comments.
You think the face of your "God" is a "cloudy pillar".
It is that "cloudy pillar"-faced deity that did
"speak to Moses face to face". -- ;-) -- L.
Libertarius
Diana Burgess wrote:
> "Dore" <spiri...@frontiernet.net> wrote in message news:<bXqLa.995$SB....@news02.roc.ny>...
> > Obviously, you don't understand the power and abilities of God. Anyone who
> > denies the SON, being the Word, GOD, made flesh, will NOT see the kingdom.
> > You think of one in carnal terms, not in spiritual terms, and certainly not
> > with the Holy Spirit of truth, which you also deny is God, therefore
> > blaspheming Him, therefore incapable of knowing GOD, personally, intimately,
> > purely, closely and righteously.
> >
>
> Here is the truth of the matter Dore. This is what Jesus gave to His
> disciples to teach us.
===>What makes you think Jesus gave that to anyone?1John 4
> [14] And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to
> be the Saviour of the world.
> [15] Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God
> dwelleth in him, and he in God.
===>One writer's opinion.
That's all! -- L.
alight
"Libertarius" <The_Truth_The_Whole_Truth@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in
message news:cc50cf6fa1694615...@news.scbiz.com...
It is written
1 John 4:12 No one has ever seen God;
1 Timothy 6:16 It is he alone who has immortality and dwells in
Diana Burgess
> Diana Burgess wrote:
>
> > "Dore" <spiri...@frontiernet.net> wrote in message news:<bXqLa.995$SB....@news02.roc.ny>...
> > > Obviously, you don't understand the power and abilities of God. Anyone who
> > > denies the SON, being the Word, GOD, made flesh, will NOT see the kingdom.
> > > You think of one in carnal terms, not in spiritual terms, and certainly not
> > > with the Holy Spirit of truth, which you also deny is God, therefore
> > > blaspheming Him, therefore incapable of knowing GOD, personally, intimately,
> > > purely, closely and righteously.
> > >
> >
> > Here is the truth of the matter Dore. This is what Jesus gave to His
> > disciples to teach us.
>
> ===>What makes you think Jesus gave that to anyone?1John 4
>
Your question is a bit vague. How about responding to my other post in
this thread.
> > [14] And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to
> > be the Saviour of the world.
> > [15] Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God
> > dwelleth in him, and he in God.
>
> ===>One writer's opinion.
> That's all! -- L.
You know Lib, you sound like a broken record. The same thing over and
over again.
As this is from someone that knew Jesus personally I have no reason to
doubt his witness.
Here we go...........Lib will write.......
Where is your proof that Jesus existed......blah blah blah.
Tell me , did Mohammed exist?
Libertarius
alight wrote:
===>Yes, indeed. ALL those things are "written".
Different writers compiled in the Bible had differing
ideas, opinions, speculations and fantasies.
Nothing wrong with that, they were individuals.
However, lying deceivers call their writings the
"Word of God", and come up with all sorts of twisted,
perverse "explanations" to cover up the differences.
Libertarius
==========
Libertarius
Diana Burgess wrote:
> Libertarius <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The_Truth.net> wrote in message news:<3F0354A5.C57A350E@Nothing_But_The_Truth.net>...
> > Diana Burgess wrote:
> >
> > > "Dore" <spiri...@frontiernet.net> wrote in message news:<bXqLa.995$SB....@news02.roc.ny>...
> > > > Obviously, you don't understand the power and abilities of God. Anyone who
> > > > denies the SON, being the Word, GOD, made flesh, will NOT see the kingdom.
> > > > You think of one in carnal terms, not in spiritual terms, and certainly not
> > > > with the Holy Spirit of truth, which you also deny is God, therefore
> > > > blaspheming Him, therefore incapable of knowing GOD, personally, intimately,
> > > > purely, closely and righteously.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Here is the truth of the matter Dore. This is what Jesus gave to His
> > > disciples to teach us.
> >
> > ===>What makes you think Jesus gave that to anyone?1John 4
> >
>
> Your question is a bit vague.
===>Nothing "vague" about it. You just hate to admit
you are quoting some writer identified as "John", but
even that writer does not say that JESUS said what you
quote!
> How about responding to my other post in
> this thread.
>
> > > [14] And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to
> > > be the Saviour of the world.
> > > [15] Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God
> > > dwelleth in him, and he in God.
> >
> > ===>One writer's opinion.
> > That's all! -- L.
>
> You know Lib, you sound like a broken record. The same thing over and
> over again.
===>Perhaps if you read it often enough, you will start to THINK!
> As this is from someone that knew Jesus personally I have no reason to
> doubt his witness.
===>How do you know the writer "knew Jesus personally"???
And where does he say he is quoting Jesus?
>
> Here we go...........Lib will write.......
> Where is your proof that Jesus existed......blah blah blah.
===>WRONG.
The existence of Jesus is not the issue!
>
> Tell me , did Mohammed exist?
===>Of course.
What do YOU think?
And how is that relevant? -- L.
alight
well put.
alight
"Diana Burgess" <nbur...@powerup.com.au> wrote in message
news:5a0880e0.03070...@posting.google.com...
amen
David' Chariot
5207 uiov huios hwee-os’
apparently a primary word; TDNT-8:334,1206; n m
AV-
son(s) 85,
Son of Man + 444 87 (TDNT-8:400, 1210),
Son of God + 2316 49,
child(ren) 49,
Son 42,
his Son + 848 21,
Son of David + 1138 15 (TDNT-8:478, 1210),
my beloved Son + 27 + 3350 7,
thy Son + 4575 5,
only begotten Son + 3339 3,
his (David’s) son + 846 3,
firstborn son + 4316 2,
misc 14; 382
<> Revelation 2:18 "And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira
write; These things saith the Son <5207> of God, who hath his eyes
like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;"
<> Revelation 21:7 "He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and
I will be his God, and he shall be my son <5207>."
<> Revelation 21:12 "And had a wall great and high, and had twelve
gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon,
which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children <5207> of
Israel:"
Apparently, there are "twelve tribes of the children <5207> of
Israel" meaning that there are 'twelve tribes of Gods'?
<> John 17:21-22 "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in
me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world
may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest
me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:"
Now, are you God? If not, why not?
Diana Burgess
Oh Lib, you do have a sense of humour after all.
I have many conversations with blind people. I do it every day. I work
for a blind charity. How am I going to break the news to them that all
those times we talked facing each other they cannot be considered
"face to face"?
They couldn't see me so we have never talked "face to face". Even
though they were "looking" into my face and I into theirs.
Asyncritus
favourite) stating categorically that God sent the Son, taught Him, showed
Him what to do, gave him the words to speak and so forth? Isn't that the
superior talking to the inferior?
"alight" <sheb...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:be38f0$jgs$1...@mws-stat-syd.cdn.telstra.com.au...
Libertarius
>
> Dore, why are there about 42 verses in John's gospel (the trinitarians'
> favourite) stating categorically that God sent the Son, taught Him, showed
> Him what to do, gave him the words to speak and so forth? Isn't that the
> superior talking to the inferior?
===>That piece was originally written by one of the disciples,
some think it was Mary Magdalene, but then it was heavily edited
by a Pauline Gentile Christian for whom Jesus was another "god",
the incarnate divine LOGOS.
A few decades later Pliny writes about those Christians as a
new religion where people sing hymns to Christus "as to a god".
Libertarius
====================
Blackie Beard
the individuality of both the Father and the Son, by trying
to wrap them up into one (being), end up denying either
the Father or the Son, and by denying either, you end up
denying both. But on the other hand, someone who does
believe that Jesus is not the Father, for there is never any
reason to believe so anyway, believes that he was born
a human, sharing Mary's genes, as he must be the seed
of the woman, and therefore he came in the flesh. Else
it is that spirit (of belief) called antichrist. "Howbeit that
was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural;
and afterward that which is spiritual."
Now I understand the temptation to enjoy the pleasures
of sin for a season, and join the big church, and be a big
shot, and enjoy the pomp and ceremony and power. But
it is belief in God's word rather than fables, which saves.
BB
========================================
"Dore" <spiri...@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:bXqLa.995$SB....@news02.roc.ny...
alight
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The_Truth.net> wrote in message
Scripture can not be broken, what is written is true in greek, God no one
has seen
or can see.
>
> Libertarius
> ==========
>
>
>
Libertarius
alight wrote:
===>LIAR!
Genesis 32:30
So Jacob named the place Peniel, for he said,
"I have seen God face to face, yet my life has been preserved."
Blackie Beard
> > Scripture can not be broken, what is written is true in greek, God no
one
> > has seen or can see.
>
> ===>LIAR!
> Genesis 32:30
> So Jacob named the place Peniel, for he said,
> "I have seen God face to face, yet my life has been preserved."
>
It is also recorded that Moses spoke to God in the burning bush.
Ex 3:6 "Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of
Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses
hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God."
But later in Acts it is made clear that he spoke to an angel.
Acts 7:35 "This Moses whom they refused, saying, Who made
thee a ruler and a judge? the same did God send to be a ruler
and a deliverer by the hand of the angel which appeared to him
in the bush."
Note that the angels of God are his messengers, they cannot
sin, but always do his will.
"Bless the LORD, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do
his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word."
As his representatives, they bear his name.
Ex 23:20-21 "Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee
in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will
not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him."
Perhaps besides Jesus, Abraham came the closest to seeing
God, because God allowed him to see
Libertarius
Blackie Beard wrote:
===>Despite what is being claimed by some of the authors in the Bible,
NO ONE, not Jesus, not Moses, not Jacob, not even Abraham ever
had the pleasure of seeing any "GOD", since all the deities mentioned
in that literature are matters of artistic imagination of the authoirs
compiled therein.
Libertarius
==========
Mark
Libertarius <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The_Truth.net> wrote in message
>
>
> Blackie Beard wrote:
>
> > >
> > > > Scripture can not be broken, what is written is true in greek, God
no
> > one
> > > > has seen or can see.
What the bible says is that no one can see God **and live**. Since I have
died
in Christ, I can see God now, and I will.
Mark
Libertarius
Mark wrote:
===>Genesis 32:30
Blackie Beard
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The_Truth.net> wrote in message
That is proof (ahem, for those of us who hold the Bible as originally
written as 100% truth and the word of God, who moved the prophets'
hands to write, and if this verse has not been tampered with since
then, etc.) then that is proof that it wasn't the Father Himself, but
an angel who Jacob saw face to face. Otherwise he would have died.
Blackie Beard
"Mark" <do...@spam.me> wrote in message
news:GxDOa.2120$Fy1.96088@localhost...
>
> Libertarius <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The_Truth.net> wrote in message
> >
> >
> > Blackie Beard wrote:
> >
> > > >
> > > > > Scripture can not be broken, what is written is true in greek, God
> no
> > > one
> > > > > has seen or can see.
>
> died
> in Christ, I can see God now, and I will.
>
>
>
>
Okee Dokely. What's he look like, chief?
Mark
Blackie Beard <b...@fearlessimmortalwretch.com> wrote in message
news:hcMOa.147519$Dr3.90294@fed1read02...
Or that Jacob had died in Christ.
Mark
Libertarius
Blackie Beard wrote:
> "Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The_Truth.net> wrote in message
> news:3F0B2456.71262FEF@Nothing_But_The_Truth.net...
> >
> >
> > Mark wrote:
> >
> > > Libertarius <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The_Truth.net> wrote in message
> > > news:3F0B02F3.2A199244@Nothing_But_The_Truth.net...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Blackie Beard wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Scripture can not be broken, what is written is true in greek,
> God
> > > no
> > > > > one
> > > > > > > has seen or can see.
> > >
> > > What the bible says is that no one can see God **and live**. Since I
> have
> > > died
> > > in Christ, I can see God now, and I will.
> >
> > ===>Genesis 32:30
> > So Jacob named the place Peniel, for he said,
> > "I have seen God face to face, yet my life has been preserved."
> >
>
> That is proof (ahem, for those of us who hold the Bible as originally
> written as 100% truth and the word of God, who moved the prophets'
> hands to write, and if this verse has not been tampered with since
> then, etc.) then that is proof that it wasn't the Father Himself, but
> an angel who Jacob saw face to face. Otherwise he would have died.
===>So, the writer was lying?
Or "GOD" was lying to him?
Why did he name the place PENI-EL???
"EL" is "GOD", not some angel!
Or does that rule only apply to YHWH, but
not to his father, EL???
Libertarius
==========
alight
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The_Truth.net> wrote in message
Blackie Beard
Apparently not. He was still vertical.
Blackie Beard
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The_Truth.net> wrote in message
No.
> Or "GOD" was lying to him?
No.
> Why did he name the place PENI-EL???
He had spoken to a god face to face. A reprisentative of God
carries his name. Did I forget to mention that?
> "EL" is "GOD", not some angel!
Elohim is angels. Anyway, an angel may carry the name of God,
so I don't see any difficulty with this whatsoever in the least itsy bit.
> Or does that rule only apply to YHWH, but
> not to his father, EL???
Huh? YHWH is the father. God told Moses that his true
name is YHWH. So I don't see where you get your ideas.
Are you thinking that Jesus name is YHWH???????
Blackie Beard
LIAR>>>> Libertarius
> ==========
>
>
Libertarius
alight wrote:
===>So, the author of Timothy disagrees with that Genesis author.
Is that news to you?
The Bible is full of such disagreeing opinions.
Libertarius
==========
Libertarius
Blackie Beard wrote:
===>That is your interpretation.
The statements says "I have seen God face to face",
not "I have seen a representative of God face to face".
> > "EL" is "GOD", not some angel!
> Elohim is angels.
===>WRONG! Elohim is "GODS" or "DIVINE BEINGS".
> Anyway, an angel may carry the name of God,
> so I don't see any difficulty with this whatsoever in the least itsy bit.
===>That is YOUR dodge!
>
>
> > Or does that rule only apply to YHWH, but
> > not to his father, EL???
>
> Huh? YHWH is the father.
===>Historically, EL was the father god of the Semites,
YAHU (YHWH) and BAAL were two of his SONS!
> God told Moses that his true
> name is YHWH.
===>That is another problem in the Bible.
It says YHWH gave that name to Moses for the first time,
and no one had known him by that name before,
when in fact Genesis tells us that all sorts of people
knew him by that name, and even named places by
that name!
> So I don't see where you get your ideas.
===>From researching things, unlike you, who simply
listen to your ignorant (or deceptive?) preachers.
> Are you thinking that Jesus name is YHWH???????
===>No, I am not thinking any such silly thing. -- L.
Libertarius
Rather than learning the truth, you simply call the
one who points it out to you a "liar"!
How old are you, Blackie?
Blackie Beard wrote:
> LIAR>>>> Libertarius
> > ==========
> >
> >
Blackie Beard
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The_Truth.net> wrote in message
news:3F0DCA7A.80C8CC07@Nothing_But_The_Truth.net...
Blackie Beard
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The_Truth.net> wrote in message
As I said before, but you did not seem to listen...
The same thing happened to Moses, and it was said to be an angel...
Exod 3"
2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the
midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and
the bush was not consumed.
...
4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him
out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am
I.
...
6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God
of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to
look upon God.
...
14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou
say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children
of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of
Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for
ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
16 ś Go, and gather the elders of Israel together, and say unto them, The
LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob,
appeared unto me, saying, I have surely visited you, and seen that which is
done to you in Egypt:
Here is an angel saying to Moses, "I AM". Was that angel claiming
to be the father? Furthermore, in vs 16, the angel says to Moses to
tell everyone that YHWH had appeared unto him. I shall be awaiting
your interesting "dodge" on this matter.
>
> > > "EL" is "GOD", not some angel!
> > Elohim is angels.
>
> ===>WRONG! Elohim is "GODS" or "DIVINE BEINGS".
Yes. And Angels were divine beings, last time I checked. Dude,
you have really been swallowing the traditions of man. You need
to get some 2nd opinions, some that are actually based on scripture.
>
> > Anyway, an angel may carry the name of God,
> > so I don't see any difficulty with this whatsoever in the least itsy
bit.
>
> ===>That is YOUR dodge!
It is the truth. I have explained it but you refuse to hear
the words of God. These are not my words, what I quote
from the Bible are God's words. I'm simply using my
memory to produce for you the verses which are applicable
to show that you are wrong.
>
> >
> >
> > > Or does that rule only apply to YHWH, but
> > > not to his father, EL???
>
> >
> > Huh? YHWH is the father.
>
> ===>Historically, EL was the father god of the Semites,
> YAHU (YHWH) and BAAL were two of his SONS!
It would be interesting to see some proof of that! An idol
who God says to stay away from is God's son? And the
memorial name of God is the other son of the mighty diety?
If this is history, then some historians have been smoking
crack.
>
> > God told Moses that his true
> > name is YHWH.
>
> ===>That is another problem in the Bible.
> It says YHWH gave that name to Moses for the first time,
> and no one had known him by that name before,
> when in fact Genesis tells us that all sorts of people
> knew him by that name, and even named places by
> that name!
In truth, I'm not sure which name it was - because he said
also his memorial name is I AM THAT I AM (hayah hayah).
YHWH that we know is the 3rd person (someone else
referencing his name), and the hayah hayah is 1st person,
as YHWH would say his own name. Don't take my word
for it, consult some Hebrew scholars.
>
> > So I don't see where you get your ideas.
>
> ===>From researching things, unlike you, who simply
> listen to your ignorant (or deceptive?) preachers.
; ) Thanks.
>
> > Are you thinking that Jesus name is YHWH???????
>
> ===>No, I am not thinking any such silly thing. -- L.
>
Sounds like it, because you did say El was the father
God and YHWH was one of his sons, but as I know it
the only (begotten) son of God is Jesus.
Blackie Beard
> Is that news to you?
> The Bible is full of such disagreeing opinions.
>
> Libertarius
> ==========
>
Is Libby an atheist?
Mark
Do you calim to believe 100% of the bible? Then explain this,
"For you died and your life is now hidden with Christ in God." Col 3:3
"Since you died with Chist to the basic principles of this world," Col 2:20
"If we died with Him..." 2Tim 2:11
"I die every day - I mean that, brothers" 1 Cor 15:31
"He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die
to sins and live for righteousness;" 1 Peter 2:24
Mark
Libertarius
Blackie Beard wrote:
===>SO FARr, it is an "angel".
>
> ...
> 4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see,
===>FROM HERE ON it is YHWH HIMSELF!
Cant' you read?
> God called unto him
> out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am
> I.
> ...
> 6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God
> of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to
> look upon God.
> ...
> 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou
> say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
> 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children
> of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of
> Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for
> ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
> 16 ¶ Go, and gather the elders of Israel together, and say unto them, The
> LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob,
> appeared unto me, saying, I have surely visited you, and seen that which is
> done to you in Egypt:
>
> Here is an angel saying to Moses, "I AM".
===>LIAR!
It clearly states that YHWH was talking, not an "angel"!
> Was that angel claiming
> to be the father?
===>NO "angel" was claiming anything.
YHWH was talking!
> Furthermore, in vs 16, the angel says to Moses to
> tell everyone that YHWH had appeared unto him.
===>LIAR AGAIN!
It was YHWH talking, not an "angel"!
> I shall be awaiting
> your interesting "dodge" on this matter.
===>No "dodge" needed.
You are covering up the facts of the text with
your LIES!
> > > > "EL" is "GOD", not some angel!
> > > Elohim is angels.
> >
> > ===>WRONG! Elohim is "GODS" or "DIVINE BEINGS".
>
> Yes. And Angels were divine beings, last time I checked.
===>"Angels" are NOT "divine beiongs"!
They are CREATURES!
> Dude,
> you have really been swallowing the traditions of man. You need
> to get some 2nd opinions, some that are actually based on scripture.
===>No "second opinion" needed.
Just read what the text says, without lying about it as you do!
> > > Anyway, an angel may carry the name of God,
> > > so I don't see any difficulty with this whatsoever in the least itsy
> bit.
> >
> > ===>That is YOUR dodge!
>
> It is the truth.
===>Just because YOU say so, it must be "the truth"?
How conceited can you get?
> I have explained it but you refuse to hear
> the words of God.
===>YOUR words are not the words of any "GOD".
You LIE!
> These are not my words, what I quote
> from the Bible are God's words.
===>You just got thropugh saying they were NOT "God's words"
but the words of some "angel", calling himself YHWH!
> I'm simply using my
> memory
===>You are using your ability to LIE anmd distort the FACTS
of the text!
> to produce for you the verses which are applicable
> to show that you are wrong.
===>Your pwn quotation is proving YOU a LIAR!
E.g. (SEE ABOVE):
"And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou
say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."
Does it say an ANGEL said anything to Moses?
NO, not at all.
It says "God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM".
> > > > Or does that rule only apply to YHWH, but
> > > > not to his father, EL???
> >
> > >
> > > Huh? YHWH is the father.
> >
> > ===>Historically, EL was the father god of the Semites,
> > YAHU (YHWH) and BAAL were two of his SONS!
>
> It would be interesting to see some proof of that! An idol
> who God says to stay away from is God's son?
===>No "GOD" says any such thing.
Some author putting words in the mouth of YHWH says that.
The proof is in the Ugaritic material, from which the Biblical
material was adapoted.
> And the
> memorial name of God is the other son of the mighty diety?
===>"Memorial name"???
What are you talking about?
>
> If this is history, then some historians have been smoking
> crack.
===>You must be smoking something instead of studying the facts!
"The Great Baal was of Canaan.
He was the son of El, the high god of Canaan."
(http://www.themystica.org/mythical-folk/articles/Baal.html)
"The ancient Canaanite city-state of Ugarit is of utmost importance
for those who study the Old Testament.
The literature of the city and the theology contained therein
go a very long way in helping us to understand the meaning of
various Biblical passages as well as aiding us in deciphering
difficult Hebrew words.
Ugarit was at its political, religious and economic height around the
12th century BCE and thus its period of greatness corresponds
with the entry of Israel into Canaan.
Why should people interested in the Old Testament want to know
about this city and its inhabitants? Simply because when we listen to
their voices we hear echoes of the Old Testament itself. Several of the
Psalms were simply adapted from Ugaritic sources; the story of the
flood has a near mirror image in Ugaritic literature; and the language
of the Bible is greatly illuminated by the language of Ugarit."
"There is one Ugaritic text which seems to indicate that
among the inhabitants of Ugarit,
Yahweh was viewed as another son of El. KTU 1.1 IV 14 says:
sm . bny . yw . ilt
“The name of the son of god, Yahweh.”
(SEE "Ugarit and the Bible" at
http://www.theology.edu/ugarbib.htm)
> >
> > > God told Moses that his true
> > > name is YHWH.
> >
> > ===>That is another problem in the Bible.
> > It says YHWH gave that name to Moses for the first time,
> > and no one had known him by that name before,
> > when in fact Genesis tells us that all sorts of people
> > knew him by that name, and even named places by
> > that name!
>
> In truth, I'm not sure which name it was - because he said
> also his memorial name is I AM THAT I AM (hayah hayah).
===>What "Memorial name"???
Where do you get THAT designation?
However, in fact it means
"I WILL BE WHATEVER I WILL BE".
>
> YHWH that we know is the 3rd person (someone else
> referencing his name), and the hayah hayah is 1st person,
> as YHWH would say his own name. Don't take my word
> for it, consult some Hebrew scholars.
===>Well, you are wrong, but it is an irrelevant digression in any
case.
> > > So I don't see where you get your ideas.
> >
> > ===>From researching things, unlike you, who simply
> > listen to your ignorant (or deceptive?) preachers.
>
> ; ) Thanks.
>
> >
> > > Are you thinking that Jesus name is YHWH???????
> >
> > ===>No, I am not thinking any such silly thing. -- L.
> >
> Sounds like it, because you did say El was the father
> God and YHWH was one of his sons,
===>In 3200 year old UGARITIC texts.
Jesus is said to have lived some 12 centuries later!
> but as I know it
> the only (begotten) son of God is Jesus.
===>According to YOUR religion, which is a modified form
of Judaism which is a modified for of Zoroastrianism, with
some modified Ugaritic material adapted by some Hebrew
authors.
The OT material still talks of numerous "sons" of "GOD"!
Libertarius
==========
Libertarius
Blackie Beard wrote:
===>No, but how is it relevant?
Is that the bast you can do?
Blackie Beard
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The_Truth.net> wrote in message
So I guess you are saying that there was an angel in the bush with God?
Is says God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and you say
that this is YHWH HIMSELF. Therefore, according to you, all the angel
did was call his name to get his attention so that he could then turn over
the conversation to God. A little strange, but not outside of the range of
possibility.
> > ...
> > 6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the
God
> > of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was
afraid to
> > look upon God.
Let me familiarize you with vs. 8:
"And I am come down to deliver them".
According to you, it is YHWH HIMSELF from verse 4 on, correct? However,
in so saying you make yourself a larger authority on understanding this
verse
than the Holy Spirit itself, which used Luke's hand to write Acts, for
therein
he writes "This Moses whom they refused, saying, Who made thee a ruler
and a judge? the same did God send to be a ruler and a deliverer by the
hand of the angel which appeared to him in the bush." Now that angel which
spoke to him in the bush is the same angel, Acts says, which delivered them.
The angel in the cloud. And of this angel, YHWH HIMSELF says that his
"name is in him". Exod 23:20-22 "Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to
keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have
prepared.
Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon
your transgressions: for my name is in him. But if thou shalt indeed obey
his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine
enemies,
and an adversary unto thine adversaries." For you, a man, to try to
convince
me to believe that an angel cannot reprisent YHWH by carrying his name,
when the scriptures tell me otherwise, is not convincing. And for you to
call me a liar makes you a diabolos.
> > ...
> > 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt
thou
> > say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
> > 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the
children
> > of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of
> > Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for
> > ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
> > 16 ś Go, and gather the elders of Israel together, and say unto them,
Just because you say it is a dodge, in the face of the testimony,
shows me that you are clueless. Isa 8:20 "To the law and to the
testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because
there is no light in them."
I'm trimming the rest of this - not because I'm trying to hide
anything, but because the remainder is just an account of
you saying that I am a liar with no evidence.
Libertarius
Blackie Beard wrote:
===>It does not specifically say so, but that is the clear implication of the
story.
> Is says God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and you say
> that this is YHWH HIMSELF.
===>Of course it is.
> Therefore, according to you, all the angel
> did was call his name to get his attention so that he could then turn over
> the conversation to God.
===>Possibly. Although it is not stated explicitly by the author.
> A little strange, but not outside of the range of
> possibility.
>
> > > ...
> > > 6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the
> God
> > > of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was
> afraid to
> > > look upon God.
>
> Let me familiarize you with vs. 8:
> "And I am come down to deliver them".
> According to you, it is YHWH HIMSELF from verse 4 on, correct? However,
> in so saying you make yourself a larger authority on understanding this
> verse than the Holy Spirit itself, which used Luke's hand to write Acts,
===>You are simpoly making a totally unsupported and unsupportable
claim.
The author simly says he decided to write a more orderly story of Jesus
(in the Gospel). He NEVER, EVER said that he was possessed or under the
control; of any "spirit".
> for
> therein he writes "This Moses whom they refused, saying, Who made thee a ruler
>
> and a judge? the same did God send to be a ruler and a deliverer by the
> hand of the angel which appeared to him in the bush."
===>Where is the contradiction?
> Now that angel which
> spoke to him in the bush is the same angel, Acts says, which delivered them.
===>Whered does it say that, and what if it does?
It is just one man's interpretation of the Exodus material.
> The angel in the cloud. And of this angel, YHWH HIMSELF says that his
> "name is in him". Exod 23:20-22 "Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to
> keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have
> prepared.
> Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon
> your transgressions: for my name is in him. But if thou shalt indeed obey
> his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine
> enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries." For you, a man, to try to
> convince me to believe that an angel cannot reprisent YHWH by carrying his
> name,
> when the scriptures tell me otherwise, is not convincing. And for you to
> call me a liar makes you a diabolos.
===>You are a LIAR because the text clearly says that "GOD" is speking,
yet you insit it was an "angel"!
"My name is in him" simply means he is ACTING IN THE NAME of YHWH,
UNDER HIS AUTHORITY, as ANY authorized "angel" -- i.e. MESSENGER
would be acting in the name of a king. Indeed, anyone under a "power of
attorney"
can act in YOUR NAME.
>
>
> > > ...
> > > 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt
> thou
> > > say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
> > > 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the
> children
> > > of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of
> > > Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for
> > > ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
> > > 16 ¶ Go, and gather the elders of Israel together, and say unto them,
===>It clearly refers to people like yourself!
> I'm trimming the rest of this - not because I'm trying to hide
> anything, but because the remainder is just an account of
> you saying that I am a liar with no evidence.
===>Which is the obvious truth.
And I am replacing the portion you cut out because the context is
quite relevant.
HERE GOES:
===>YOUR words are not the words of any "GOD".
You LIE!
> These are not my words, what I quote
> from the Bible are God's words.
===>You just got thropugh saying they were NOT "God's words"
but the words of some "angel", calling himself YHWH!
> I'm simply using my
> memory
===>You are using your ability to LIE anmd distort the FACTS
of the text!
> to produce for you the verses which are applicable
> to show that you are wrong.
===>Your pwn quotation is proving YOU a LIAR!
E.g. (SEE ABOVE):
"And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou
say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."
alight
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The_Truth.net> wrote in message
The
> > LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob,
> > appeared unto me, saying, I have surely visited you, and seen that which
is
> > done to you in Egypt:
> >
> > Here is an angel saying to Moses, "I AM".
>
> ===>LIAR!
> It clearly states that YHWH was talking, not an "angel"!
>
> > Was that angel claiming
> > to be the father?
>
> ===>NO "angel" was claiming anything.
> YHWH was talking!
>
> > Furthermore, in vs 16, the angel says to Moses to
> > tell everyone that YHWH had appeared unto him.
>
> ===>LIAR AGAIN!
> It was YHWH talking, not an "angel"!
It is written :
Acts 7:35 "It was this Moses whom they rejected when they said, 'Who made
you a ruler and a judge?' and whom God now sent as both ruler and liberator
through the angel who appeared to him in the bush.
So are you saying Acts is lying?
alight
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The_Truth.net> wrote in message
Who wrote Genesis ? was it Moses ?
REV 3:14 "And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: The words of
the Amen, the faithful, the truth and the witness, the beginning of God's
creation:
John 6:32 Then Jesus said to them, "Very truly, I tell you, it was not Moses
who gave you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the
true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is that which comes down
from heaven and gives life to the world."
>
> Libertarius
> ==========
>
Libertarius
alight wrote:
>
>
> It is written :
>
> Acts 7:35 "It was this Moses whom they rejected when they said, 'Who made
> you a ruler and a judge?' and whom God now sent as both ruler and liberator
> through the angel who appeared to him in the bush.
>
> So are you saying Acts is lying?
===>Are you saying the author of that story in
EXODUS is lying?
"And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou
say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."
Does it say an ANGEL said anything to Moses?
NO, not at all.
It says "God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM".
NOT AN ANGEL!
Libertarius
alight wrote:
>
> > > > Genesis 32:30
> > > > So Jacob named the place Peniel, for he said,
> > > > "I have seen God face to face, yet my life has been preserved."
> > >
> > > 1 Timothy 6:16 It is he alone who has immortality and dwells in
> > > unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see; to him be
> honor and eternal dominion. Amen.
> >
> > ===>So, the author of Timothy disagrees with that Genesis author.
> > Is that news to you?
> > The Bible is full of such disagreeing opinions.
>
> Who wrote Genesis ? was it Moses ?
===>There probably never was a "Moses"
(othger than some Egyptian pharaohs).
But the authorship is irrelevant. -- L.
Jesus Is Lord
son of god, the true vine, the true and faithful witness, the alpha and
omega, jehova, bread of life, living water, redeemer, almighty god, the
rock,
"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The_Truth.net> wrote in message
Libertarius
Jesus Is Lord wrote:
> And he will be called, the way the truth and the life, wonderful counsler,
> son of god, the true vine, the true and faithful witness, the alpha and
> omega, jehova, bread of life, living water, redeemer, almighty god, the
> rock,
===>Might as well add "the roll".
What a compilation of epithets, falsely made to look like it is a
quotation!