Sinless faith.
Michael Christ
You were shown that with Abraham but how...much...more in the Lord Jesus
Christ!
Hallelujah, praise the Lord.
Michael Christ
Thommadura
> Where faith is, there is no sin.
>
Billions have faith in Allah
Are you saying that because Osama Bin Laden does - he does not sin
Are you saying that because Hitler had faith in his christian (he was a
catholic) - god - he did not sin
THis is about the funniest thing you have posted so far - Michael -
duke
wrote:
>Where faith is, there is no sin.
Unless it's just lip service.
Hebrews 4:15 (New International Version)
15For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our
weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we
are�yet was without sin.
1 John 1:8-10 (New International Version)
8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in
us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our
sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned,
we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Zadok
"Michael Christ" <Jesus...@Father.com> wrote in message ...
> Where faith is, there is no sin.
>
> You were shown that with Abraham but how...much...more in the Lord Jesus
> Christ!
In Mark 11, Jesus is on his way to Bethany, he was hungry (verse 12)
Then he sees a fig tree afar off, and he goes to the tree to 'IF HAPLY HE
MIGHT FIND ANY THING THEREON.' (Verse 13)
But then in the same verse, he finds nothing but leaves, and WHY??
The TIME (SEASON0 FOR FIGS WAS NOT YET.
Let's face it, this story makes Jesus into some kind of clown, who expects
to find figs on a tree,
when it is not the season for figs.
But what does Jesus do in a spiteful fit.
He kills someones tree, simply because he was expecting figs out of season.
I mean this is a guy who fed thousands with a few fish and bread.
Counldn't he feed himself with a few fig leaves??
So how is a man sinless when out of spite he commits an act of vandalism??
Hallelujah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Zadok
"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message ...
> 1 John 1:8-10 (New International Version)
> 8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not
in
> us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us
our
> sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
But if that confession is to a butt fucking cath0_lick priest, all bets are
off on the forgiveness part.
But if that confession is done in front of Idols, all bets are off on the
forgiveness part.
But if that confession is to anyone who calls himself FATHER, after Jesus
said to call no
man on this earth FATHER, all bets are off on the forgiveness part.
But if that confession is before someone headed up by an old Nazi in a
dress, who's idea of prayer is to say Heil Mary,
all bets are off on the forgiveness part.
Smile.
bob young
Michael Christ wrote:
> Where faith is, there is no sin.
Sin is and always has been, a tool of the clergy, used and adopted to
bolster membership.
It is seized upon with zeal because there is a universal distaste for it -
even a thief
becomes highly agitated if someone breaks into his home and steals his
loot.
Sin was around long before man could speak in simple tongue, let alone
write. It was
then hijacked, applied, used, twisted and manipulated with more force and
enthusiasm
than any other piece of religious dogma.
Until clergymen and religionists defer from manipulating sin as a
propagating tool . . . . .
. . . . . they will never be free from committing sin themselves.
Erwin Moller
Hi Michael,
Depending on your, possibly twisted, definition of sin that is maybe true.
But I can tell you with certainty that according to MY definition of sin
(or rather what I call 'bad') there are many people are very religious
and who do sin.
To name a few:
- Parents that refuse to administer their kids immunization against
serious diseases because they are of the religionX/Y/Z conviction.
- Parents who perform female genital mutilation/cutting on their
daughters because of their religious beliefs.
- ALL people who think they can harm/kill another person and find a
religious pretext to do so. (How many example do you need?)
I could produce a really long list, but I think most can do so for
themselfs easily enough....
Faith has not much to do sin, let alone it will prevent it.
You are dead wrong (again).
If you are in need of a *real moral code* start thinking for yourself
first. Think like: "Don't do to others that you don't want them to do to
you".
Develop some empathy.
Only fools need religion for morality.
Erwin Moller
--
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to
make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the
other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious
deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult."
-- C.A.R. Hoare
Thommadura
> On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 10:17:39 GMT, "Michael Christ" <Jesus...@Father.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Where faith is, there is no sin.
>
> Unless it's just lip service.
And where can YOU prove it is ANYTHING ELSE?
Thommadura
(IF he was a god - he could die)
So - what TOTALLY human person do you know who can raise a rotting
corpse back to life from the grave?
Which leaves the dilemma
Either the christ was totally human - and therefore the MIRACLES are
lies from the bible
OR
THe Christ was NOT totally human - and the story is completely false.
PICK one
Thommadura
>
> Michael Christ wrote:
>
>> Where faith is, there is no sin.
>
> Sin is and always has been, a tool of the clergy, used and adopted to
> bolster membership.
> It is seized upon with zeal because there is a universal distaste for it -
> even a thief
> becomes highly agitated if someone breaks into his home and steals his
> loot.
>
> Sin was around long before man could speak in simple tongue, let alone
> write. It was
> then hijacked, applied, used, twisted and manipulated with more force and
> enthusiasm
> than any other piece of religious dogma.
>
> Until clergymen and religionists defer from manipulating sin as a
> propagating tool . . . . .
>
> . . . . . they will never be free from committing sin themselves.
>
Nothing in religion can be established to be TRUTH - only beleif
Yet - religion itself says that saying something that is NOT true is a sin.
So - anyone who claims anything is true about religion is disobeying his
own religion.
Why listen to ANYONE who does not follow the rules of their own religion?
Ike E 2009
> On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 10:17:39 GMT, "Michael Christ"
> <Jesus...@Father.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Where faith is, there is no sin.
>
> Unless it's just lip service.
>
> Hebrews 4:15 (New International Version)
> 15For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our
> weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we
>
> 1 John 1:8-10 (New International Version)
> 8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not
> in
> us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us
> our
> sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not
> sinned,
> we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
Ah, the first quote is by a false author, and the second quote has nothing
to do with "lip service," which is surprising, since you're the expert on
giving God "lip service."
Ike
Thommadura
Actually - no one can give a god lip service
That would require an actual god to exist
None have proven their existence
Michael Christ
>>Where faith is, there is no sin.
What happened to 'Hallelujah, praise the Lord'?
Duke wrote:
> Unless it's just lip service.
>
> Hebrews 4:15 (New International Version)
> 15For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our
> weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we
> are-yet was without sin.
>
> 1 John 1:8-10 (New International Version)
> 8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not
> in
> us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us
> our
> sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not
> sinned,
> we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
Notice it says, 'If we claim we have not sinned', it does not mean a man
keeps on sinning. It does not say, 'If we claim we do not keep on sinning'.
Men like it to mean that so that they can remain as they are.
Once a man becomes aware by the Holy Spirit that in him is nothing good,
that all of him is wrong, there being absolutely nothing redeemable about
his nature then God can do something wonderful. If that man confesses to
God that all of him is sin and means it with all his heart, God will do what
He promises and cleanse that man from all unrighteousness.
Then you can talk seriously about being born-again, Duke.
That road is narrow and few there are that find it.
Losing your life, not for the hypocrite, not for the faithless, not for the
lip-server, not for the non-doer professional bible quoter.
Where faith is, there is no sin.
Michael Christ
Michael Christ
"Erwin Moller"
<Since_humans_read_this...@spamyourself.com> wrote in
message news:4ae84d7a$0$83233$e4fe...@news.xs4all.nl...
What are the actions of men to do with God, they live by their own standards
and their own ways, that is why the world is in such a state. Man is at war
with God, with his brother, and with himself.
Michael Christ
Thommadura
ANd just because you say it - does not make it true = again
THe only people who need to be born again are those that have been
indoctrinated with religion - and therefore need to get back to their
birth - where there was NO such belief.
And indeed - where that is - there is no sin - because they are not
mixed up by non-existent and unproven gods and christs - like YOU
bob young
Erwin Moller wrote:
Nice post Erwin, I hazard a guess that it is from another humanist like
myself
Thurisaz, warrior of Thor
> Where faith is, there is no sin.
For this morontheist, the conclusion (as we all have seen already) is: "Thus
lie for your lawd, lie more, lie whenever you can".
And everyone with any understanding of ethics shakes their heads...
--
Thurisaz, warrior of Thor, natural enemy of morontheism
The judgment of morontheism: http://www.carcosa.de/nojebus
bob young
Michael Christ wrote:
Everything. Since without man there would be no gods
Grow up
Erwin Moller
Hi Michael,
Yes, the world is messy: war, hatred, no/poor access to education,
hunger, overpopulation, global warming, etc. etc. The list is long.
Sooooooo much to improve.
But stating that the reason for this is that mankind is at war with God
makes no sense at all.
Many of the people that create the above problems are religious!
So I fail to see what God has to do with this.
However, I do think that the world would be a better place if we had no
religion.
Erwin Moller
>
>
> Michael Christ
Erwin Moller
>
> Erwin Moller wrote:
>> If you are in need of a *real moral code* start thinking for yourself
>> first. Think like: "Don't do to others that you don't want them to do to
>> you".
>> Develop some empathy.
>> Only fools need religion for morality.
>>
>> Erwin Moller
>
> Nice post Erwin, I hazard a guess that it is from another humanist like
> myself
>
Thanks Bob.
And yes, I surely consider myself a humanist (and an atheist as you
probably guessed.).
Allthough I hang over to Taoism on my vaguer days. ;-)
The following url is a great short story about God and a man.
It is about morality.
Please judge for yourself:
http://www.mit.edu/people/dpolicar/writing/prose/text/godTaoist.html
I hope Michael will read it (seriously) too.
Regards,
Erwin Moller
Ike E 10/29/09
[snip]
> Yes, the world is messy: war, hatred, no/poor access to education, hunger,
> overpopulation, global warming, etc. etc. The list is long.
> Sooooooo much to improve.
>
> But stating that the reason for this is that mankind is at war with God
> makes no sense at all.
> Many of the people that create the above problems are religious!
Yes, but not "Christian."
> So I fail to see what God has to do with this.
>
> However, I do think that the world would be a better place if we had no
> religion.
Yes, if everyone was a Christian, and there were no religions, the world
would be a better place.
Beyond that, there would be no world at all.
[snip]
Ike
Thommadura
> "Erwin Moller"
> <Since_humans_read_this...@spamyourself.com> wrote in
> message news:4aeaf4c3$0$83237$e4fe...@news.xs4all.nl...
>
> [snip]
>
>> Yes, the world is messy: war, hatred, no/poor access to education, hunger,
>> overpopulation, global warming, etc. etc. The list is long.
>> Sooooooo much to improve.
>>
>> But stating that the reason for this is that mankind is at war with God
>> makes no sense at all.
>> Many of the people that create the above problems are religious!
>
> Yes, but not "Christian."
Sorry - but they are INDEED christians -
>
>> So I fail to see what God has to do with this.
>>
>> However, I do think that the world would be a better place if we had no
>> religion.
>
> Yes, if everyone was a Christian, and there were no religions, the world
> would be a better place.
Sorry - but that is NOT what he said - and based on the actions of
christians when they were in charge - and largely still are in the WEST
- it is simply not true
Andrew
> Ike E 10/29/09 wrote:
>> "Erwin Moller"
>> <Since_humans_read_this...@spamyourself.com> wrote in
>> message news:4aeaf4c3$0$83237$e4fe...@news.xs4all.nl...
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>> Yes, the world is messy: war, hatred, no/poor access to education, hunger,
>>> overpopulation, global warming, etc. etc. The list is long.
>>> Sooooooo much to improve.
>>>
>>> But stating that the reason for this is that mankind is at war with God
>>> makes no sense at all.
>>> Many of the people that create the above problems are religious!
>>
>> Yes, but not "Christian."
>
>
> Sorry - but they are INDEED christians -
Sadly I must on this occasion concur. We are all broken - Chrsitians as
much as anyone else. We ought to have the humility to accept that.
bob young
Erwin Moller wrote:
Religion comes from the imagination Erwin
and as long as homo sapien has imagination,
he will always create gods of some kind,
hopefully in ever decreasing numbers !
Bob Young
bob young
Ike E 10/29/09 wrote:
What world do you live in ? ! !
Never heard of cultural differences within religions
that can on occasions lead to agressive behaviour ?
Never heard of the killing in Northern Ireland
that went on for over eight years between Protestants and Catholics ?
>
> Beyond that, there would be no world at all.
The world can exist very well without religions, as indeed it will
after homo sapians as a specie dies out, given time.
We will probably hasten our demise through a nuclear war, with Islam on one
side and Christianity on the other - half the world population wiped out, all
in the names of imaginary gods.
The Muslims will have no qualms about being the first to start a war using
nuclear weapons, they will simply claim 'it was the will of Allah'
You never see animals going through the absurd and often horrible fooleries of
magic and religion. Only man behaves with such gratuitous folly. It is the
price he has to pay for being intelligent but not, as yet, quite intelligent
enough.
[Aldous Leonard Huxley]
>
>
bob young
Andrew wrote:
> On 2009-10-30 19:14:20 +0000, Thommadura <tomm...@optonline.net> said:
>
> > Ike E 10/29/09 wrote:
> >> "Erwin Moller"
> >> <Since_humans_read_this...@spamyourself.com> wrote in
> >> message news:4aeaf4c3$0$83237$e4fe...@news.xs4all.nl...
> >>
> >> [snip]
> >>
> >>> Yes, the world is messy: war, hatred, no/poor access to education, hunger,
> >>> overpopulation, global warming, etc. etc. The list is long.
> >>> Sooooooo much to improve.
> >>>
> >>> But stating that the reason for this is that mankind is at war with God
> >>> makes no sense at all.
> >>> Many of the people that create the above problems are religious!
> >>
> >> Yes, but not "Christian."
> >
> >
> > Sorry - but they are INDEED christians -
>
> Sadly I must on this occasion concur. We are all broken - Chrsitians as
> much as anyone else. We ought to have the humility to accept that.
Indeed we should. It is an ancient drag on human relationships going back beyond
the darkest days of history. Perhap one day we will find a solution, but I am
not optimistic.
We now have nuclear weapons capable of wiping us all out. Do you think there are
'people' out there who would not hesitate to do so ?
As I said in an earlier post - Should Islam be the first to start a war using
nuclear weapons their excuse would be . . . .
'It was the will of Allah'
bob young
Erwin Moller wrote:
> bob young wote:
> >
> > Erwin Moller wrote:
> >> If you are in need of a *real moral code* start thinking for yourself
> >> first. Think like: "Don't do to others that you don't want them to do to
> >> you".
> >> Develop some empathy.
> >> Only fools need religion for morality.
> >>
> >> Erwin Moller
> >
> > Nice post Erwin, I hazard a guess that it is from another humanist like
> > myself
> >
>
> Thanks Bob.
> And yes, I surely consider myself a humanist (and an atheist as you
> probably guessed.).
>
> Allthough I hang over to Taoism on my vaguer days. ;-)
Smile - if I HAD to follow a religion it would be Buddhism, but alas, I could
not handle the vegetarian diet !
Bob
RELIGION . . . .
A daughter of Hope and Fear
explaining to Ignorance the
nature of the Unknowable
[Abrose Bierce]
gabriel
<Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
: Where faith is, there is no sin.
:
: You were shown that with Abraham but how...much...more in the Lord Jesus
: Christ!
:
: Hallelujah, praise the Lord.
:
:
:
:
:
: Michael Christ
On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 10:58:22 GMT, "Michael Christ"
<Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
: Heard this before but maybe you haven't...
:
: ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
:
: A man and his ever-nagging wife went on vacation to Jerusalem. While they
: were there, the wife passed away.
:
: The undertaker told the husband, "You can have her shipped home for $5000,
: or you can bury her here, in the Holy Land, for $150."
:
: The man thought about it and told him he would just have her shipped home.
:
: The undertaker asked, "Why would you spend $5000 to ship your wife home,
: when it would be wonderful to be buried here and you would spend only $150?"
:
: The man replied, "A long time ago a man died here, was buried here, and
: three days later he rose from the dead. I just can't take that chance."
:
:
:
: :-).
:
: Michael Christ
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 04:03:40 GMT, "Michael Christ"
<Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
: [..]
: Holiness, righteousness and purity, without which a man will never be with
: God...has it registered yet? Or, are you just going to ignore it like an
: idiot while glorying in your awesome theological correctness?
On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 11:16:00 GMT, "Michael Christ"
<Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
:
: You must think the Lord is a complete blind dickhead.
Thommadura
> On 2009-10-30 19:14:20 +0000, Thommadura <tomm...@optonline.net> said:
>
>> Ike E 10/29/09 wrote:
>>> "Erwin Moller"
>>> <Since_humans_read_this...@spamyourself.com> wrote in
>>> message news:4aeaf4c3$0$83237$e4fe...@news.xs4all.nl...
>>>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>>> Yes, the world is messy: war, hatred, no/poor access to education,
>>>> hunger,
>>>> overpopulation, global warming, etc. etc. The list is long.
>>>> Sooooooo much to improve.
>>>>
>>>> But stating that the reason for this is that mankind is at war with God
>>>> makes no sense at all.
>>>> Many of the people that create the above problems are religious!
>>>
>>> Yes, but not "Christian."
>>
>>
>> Sorry - but they are INDEED christians -
>
> Sadly I must on this occasion concur. We are all broken - Chrsitians as
> much as anyone else. We ought to have the humility to accept that.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>> So I fail to see what God has to do with this.
Since no god is proven to exist - nothing is the obvious answer
>>>>
>>>> However, I do think that the world would be a better place if we had no
>>>> religion.
>>>
>>> Yes, if everyone was a Christian, and there were no religions, the world
>>> would be a better place.
There was a time when that was almost the case in the West - and they
called that time the DARK ages for a reason.
The world is a much better place when HUMANS are in charge - without the
"threat" of an almighty force - which humans can claim unquestionable
rights.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sorry - but that is NOT what he said - and based on the actions of
>> christians when they were in charge - and largely still are in the
>> WEST - it is simply not true
>>
>>>
>>> Beyond that, there would be no world at all.
>
>
The fact is - the reality in the world is that there are good people of
varying degrees - and bad people in varying degrees. Their choice or
lack of choice of religion is NOT an indicator of which.
At the same time - religion has no superior record when it was in charge
as well. One only needs to go to europe and see the torture chambers in
the basement of cathedrals to verify that one.
duke
>
>"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message ...
>> 1 John 1:8-10 (New International Version)
>> 8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not
>in
>> us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us
>our
>> sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
>
>But if that confession is to a butt fucking cath0_lick priest, all bets are
>off on the forgiveness part.
Nope. Jesus gave us a way to repent of our sins, to promise to change our ways,
and to be forgiven.
>But if that confession is done in front of Idols, all bets are off on the
>forgiveness part.
No such thing. It takes a confessional.
>But if that confession is to anyone who calls himself FATHER, after Jesus
>said to call no
>man on this earth FATHER, all bets are off on the forgiveness part.
Paul said he became our Father thru the gospel.
>But if that confession is before someone headed up by an old Nazi in a
>dress, who's idea of prayer is to say Heil Mary,
>all bets are off on the forgiveness part.
All men are sinners. God to confession.
Smile.
The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
duke
In your heart, and as determined by God.
duke
wrote:
Well, I sure address your lip service.
duke
wrote:
>Michael Christ wrote:
>>>Where faith is, there is no sin.
>
>What happened to 'Hallelujah, praise the Lord'?
>
>Duke wrote:
>> Unless it's just lip service.
>>
>> Hebrews 4:15 (New International Version)
>> 15For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our
>> weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we
>> are-yet was without sin.
>>
>> 1 John 1:8-10 (New International Version)
>> 8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not
>> in
>> us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us
>> our
>> sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not
>> sinned,
>> we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
>Notice it says, 'If we claim we have not sinned', it does not mean a man
>keeps on sinning. It does not say, 'If we claim we do not keep on sinning'.
>Men like it to mean that so that they can remain as they are.
Hebrews 10:26-27 (New International Version)
26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of
the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of
judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
>Once a man becomes aware by the Holy Spirit that in him is nothing good,
>that all of him is wrong, there being absolutely nothing redeemable about
>his nature then God can do something wonderful. If that man confesses to
>God that all of him is sin and means it with all his heart, God will do what
>He promises and cleanse that man from all unrighteousness.
>
>Then you can talk seriously about being born-again, Duke.
Born again is baptism in water and the Holy Spirit, and Heb 4:15 says that satan
still lives in you unless you take extreme means to avoid him.
>That road is narrow and few there are that find it.
That's exactly why Jesus gave us the sacrament of Confession. JOhn 20:22-23. So
that when we fall, we can take steps to correct ourselves.
>Losing your life, not for the hypocrite, not for the faithless, not for the
>lip-server, not for the non-doer professional bible quoter.
>
>Where faith is, there is no sin.
Only Christ expressed faith that wonderful.
Thommadura
> On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 12:01:33 GMT, "Zadok" <nob...@accesswave.ca> wrote:
>
>> "duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message ...
>>> 1 John 1:8-10 (New International Version)
>>> 8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not
>> in
>>> us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us
>> our
>>> sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
>> But if that confession is to a butt fucking cath0_lick priest, all bets are
>> off on the forgiveness part.
>
> Nope. Jesus gave us a way to repent of our sins, to promise to change our ways,
> and to be forgiven.
Since there is NO reason to repent - since HE is not the god of creation
- he had nothing to do with it - even in your religion
>
>> But if that confession is done in front of Idols, all bets are off on the
>> forgiveness part.
>
> No such thing. It takes a confessional.
Either a god is ALL knowing - or it is not
IF it takes a confessional - then a god is NOT all knowing
ANd sin is supposedly between god and a human - no in between is needed
>
>> But if that confession is to anyone who calls himself FATHER, after Jesus
>> said to call no
>> man on this earth FATHER, all bets are off on the forgiveness part.
>
> Paul said he became our Father thru the gospel.
Since the word "Father" has a lot of meanings - the statement itself is
nonsense - since a child certainly is told to obey their parents - ie -
father and mother.
AS far as the forgiveness part - all you need is to be saved FROM
religion - to know that you do not need it.
>
>> But if that confession is before someone headed up by an old Nazi in a
>> dress, who's idea of prayer is to say Heil Mary,
>> all bets are off on the forgiveness part.
>
> All men are sinners. God to confession.
Sorry - but it would require a god - for a man to be a sinner
And we have a complete lack of those on earth - so the word "SIN" is
meaningless
The only person I need to "confess" to is myself
Thommadura
> On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 11:19:46 -0500, Thommadura <tomm...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>> duke wrote:
>>> On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 10:17:39 GMT, "Michael Christ" <Jesus...@Father.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Where faith is, there is no sin.
>>> Unless it's just lip service.
>>
>> And where can YOU prove it is ANYTHING ELSE?
>
> In your heart, and as determined by God.
So - have your god appear and tell us his determination - I am tired of
hearing YOUR nonsense
In fact - there is NO sin in my heart - or those of other non-believers
- since gods are not proven to exist - we are not bound by the nonsense
YOU say - that is not verified by a god.
And noting that no supernatural god has come forward - proven its own
existence - and powers - and verified you statements - it can only be
for one of two reasons
1 =- Either no gods actually exist
or
2 - THey don't agree with YOU.
Michael Christ
>>Where faith is, there is no sin.
Duke wrote:
> Only Christ expressed faith that wonderful.
That is one of the reasons you must lose your life to Him.
Michael Christ
Michael Christ
righteous by seeking to find fault in others?
Make yourself righteous?! You can't, not even with all the Bible memorised
backwards!
Jesus must be Lord of your life; you are not going to make it with the vain
notion that 'The Blood of Jesus' makes your choice for you.
You need to find Him and find Him fast, and entreat Him to make known to you
the path you must walk to lose your life.
Michael Christ
"gabriel" <gabriel...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:308oe5t6fii9papl4...@4ax.com...
Thommadura
We must NOT lose our life to anyone
LIfe is a precious commodity - and to waste it on unproven nonsense of
religion is a waste of life - when you could be using it actually
doing things that matter.
duke
>duke wrote:
>> On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 12:01:33 GMT, "Zadok" <nob...@accesswave.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> "duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message ...
>>>> 1 John 1:8-10 (New International Version)
>>>> 8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not
>>> in
>>>> us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us
>>> our
>>>> sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
>>> But if that confession is to a butt fucking cath0_lick priest, all bets are
>>> off on the forgiveness part.
>>
>> Nope. Jesus gave us a way to repent of our sins, to promise to change our ways,
>> and to be forgiven.
>Since there is NO reason to repent - since HE is not the god of creation
>- he had nothing to do with it - even in your religion
Then why did he tell us to repent?
>>> But if that confession is done in front of Idols, all bets are off on the
>>> forgiveness part.
>> No such thing. It takes a confessional.
>Either a god is ALL knowing - or it is not
He is, but the confessional gives us a choice, and it is our attitude that is
judged.
>IF it takes a confessional - then a god is NOT all knowing
>ANd sin is supposedly between god and a human - no in between is needed
He gave us John 20:22-23 for a reason.
>>> But if that confession is to anyone who calls himself FATHER, after Jesus
>>> said to call no
>>> man on this earth FATHER, all bets are off on the forgiveness part.
>>
>> Paul said he became our Father thru the gospel.
>Since the word "Father" has a lot of meanings - the statement itself is
>nonsense - since a child certainly is told to obey their parents - ie -
>father and mother.
Right. But we only have one almighty Father who is in heaven.
>AS far as the forgiveness part - all you need is to be saved FROM
>religion - to know that you do not need it.
And you'll learn your fate for your decision one moment after you die.
>>> But if that confession is before someone headed up by an old Nazi in a
>>> dress, who's idea of prayer is to say Heil Mary,
>>> all bets are off on the forgiveness part.
>> All men are sinners. God to confession.
>Sorry - but it would require a god - for a man to be a sinner
Nope, the free choice that God gave us - the love of God or the fires of hell.
Gosh, it takes BIG balls to be a sinner.
>And we have a complete lack of those on earth - so the word "SIN" is
>meaningless
>The only person I need to "confess" to is myself
So cut your finger off.
duke
>duke wrote:
>> On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 11:19:46 -0500, Thommadura <tomm...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>>> duke wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 10:17:39 GMT, "Michael Christ" <Jesus...@Father.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Where faith is, there is no sin.
>>>> Unless it's just lip service.
>>>
>>> And where can YOU prove it is ANYTHING ELSE?
>>
>> In your heart, and as determined by God.
>
>
>So - have your god appear and tell us his determination - I am tired of
>hearing YOUR nonsense
He already did. Fortuantely, I'm not challenged as you are. Good luck.
>In fact - there is NO sin in my heart - or those of other non-believers
>- since gods are not proven to exist - we are not bound by the nonsense
>YOU say - that is not verified by a god.
God is the God of all peoples. You may ignore him, but he still knows you and
will judge you at the moment you die.
>And noting that no supernatural god has come forward - proven its own
>existence - and powers - and verified you statements - it can only be
>for one of two reasons
He arrived 2000 years ago.
>1 =- Either no gods actually exist
>or
>2 - THey don't agree with YOU.
The Dukester, American-American
duke
wrote:
>Michael Christ wrote:
Living in the spirit will do. After all, he is all loving.
duke
>Michael Christ wrote:
>> Michael Christ wrote:
>>>> Where faith is, there is no sin.
>>
>> Duke wrote:
>>> Only Christ expressed faith that wonderful.
>>
>> That is one of the reasons you must lose your life to Him.
>>
>
>We must NOT lose our life to anyone
Then why do you answer to satan?
>LIfe is a precious commodity - and to waste it on unproven nonsense of
>religion is a waste of life - when you could be using it actually
>doing things that matter.
Wow, unproven nonsense. Well, it's your funeral.
Thommadura
> On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 16:11:40 -0500, Thommadura <tomm...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>> duke wrote:
>>> On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 12:01:33 GMT, "Zadok" <nob...@accesswave.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message ...
>>>>> 1 John 1:8-10 (New International Version)
>>>>> 8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not
>>>> in
>>>>> us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us
>>>> our
>>>>> sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
>>>> But if that confession is to a butt fucking cath0_lick priest, all bets are
>>>> off on the forgiveness part.
>>> Nope. Jesus gave us a way to repent of our sins, to promise to change our ways,
>>> and to be forgiven.
>
>> Since there is NO reason to repent - since HE is not the god of creation
>> - he had nothing to do with it - even in your religion
>
> Then why did he tell us to repent?
HE never existed that YOU can PROVE - he is a MYTH like Zeus and Apollo are
>
>>>> But if that confession is done in front of Idols, all bets are off on the
>>>> forgiveness part.
>
>>> No such thing. It takes a confessional.
>> Either a god is ALL knowing - or it is not
>
> He is, but the confessional gives us a choice, and it is our attitude that is
> judged.
Sorry - but if a god was all knowing - he knew what we were going to do
BEFORE he even created the universe.
So - if you believe the all knowing nonsense - then we were created ONLY
to fulfill what the god already knew.
If we had a real choice - he would not be all knowing - so why call him god
At the same time - religion claims a CHOICE was given when in fact NONE
was. It is called COERCION. IE - do as I want - or I will punish you
completely and eternally.
And -0f course - there is NOTHING to be judged -since there are no gods
proven to exist to do that one either.
>
>> IF it takes a confessional - then a god is NOT all knowing
>> ANd sin is supposedly between god and a human - no in between is needed
>
> He gave us John 20:22-23 for a reason.
Nonsense
Humans wrote the bible - that is proven to be true.
Nothing else is.
>
>>>> But if that confession is to anyone who calls himself FATHER, after Jesus
>>>> said to call no
>>>> man on this earth FATHER, all bets are off on the forgiveness part.
>>> Paul said he became our Father thru the gospel.
>
>> Since the word "Father" has a lot of meanings - the statement itself is
>> nonsense - since a child certainly is told to obey their parents - ie -
>> father and mother.
>
> Right. But we only have one almighty Father who is in heaven.
Stated without PROOF or verification from the god - it is therefore
dismissed
>
>> AS far as the forgiveness part - all you need is to be saved FROM
>> religion - to know that you do not need it.
>
> And you'll learn your fate for your decision one moment after you die.
YOu mean when we get the 100 Virgins ROFL
YOur story is not any more proven than theirs -
And there are those who say the christ came to save us
IF he did - it already happened - we don't need religion anymore either
IF it was true - why is it no god has appeared to prove itself - verify
what it is, did , and can do - and verify that what YOU say is true?
With all of the different possibilities - if a god really wanted to be
worshipped and adored - and all the other things you claim - he would
have already done that. That it has not happened - at the very least -
means that he has no interest in supporting your claims!
>
>>>> But if that confession is before someone headed up by an old Nazi in a
>>>> dress, who's idea of prayer is to say Heil Mary,
>>>> all bets are off on the forgiveness part.
>
>>> All men are sinners. God to confession.
>> Sorry - but it would require a god - for a man to be a sinner
>
> Nope, the free choice that God gave us - the love of God or the fires of hell.
Sorry - but it STILL would require a god
NO god - no sin - simple as that
>
> Gosh, it takes BIG balls to be a sinner.
Since every person is claimed to be one - including women - apparently
you have your anatomy wrong!
>
>> And we have a complete lack of those on earth - so the word "SIN" is
>> meaningless
>> The only person I need to "confess" to is myself
>
> So cut your finger off.
NO reason to -
Thommadura
> On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 16:14:10 -0500, Thommadura <tomm...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>> duke wrote:
>>> On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 11:19:46 -0500, Thommadura <tomm...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> duke wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 10:17:39 GMT, "Michael Christ" <Jesus...@Father.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Where faith is, there is no sin.
>>>>> Unless it's just lip service.
>>>> And where can YOU prove it is ANYTHING ELSE?
>>> In your heart, and as determined by God.
>>
>> So - have your god appear and tell us his determination - I am tired of
>> hearing YOUR nonsense
>
> He already did. Fortuantely, I'm not challenged as you are. Good luck.
Really -= PROVE it
Thommadura
> On Sun, 01 Nov 2009 03:32:54 GMT, "Michael Christ" <Jesus...@Father.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Michael Christ wrote:
>>>> Where faith is, there is no sin.
>> Duke wrote:
>
>>> Only Christ expressed faith that wonderful.
>
>> That is one of the reasons you must lose your life to Him.
>
> Living in the spirit will do. After all, he is all loving.
Yes - Today over 3000 children under the age of 6 will be sexually
molested by other humans around the world. Surely - those children are
NOT exercising their "CHOICE" in the matter.
IF someone knows about it - and does nothing about it - that is called
depraved indifference - a crime that can carry the same penalty as those
that perform the molestation.
If all a person does is WATCH the act happen - he is also called a PERVERT.
If your god is all knowing - then he should know it is happening and do
something about it (OR is THAT your definition of LOVE?)
IF he does not know - he is not a god
If he cannot do anything about it - he is not a god
If all he does is sit up there and watch he is a pervert
ANd if he does nothing to stop it - he is a depraved indifferent
So - either you worship something that is NOT a god or you worship a
depraved indifferent pervert - take your pick.
He obviously does nothing to stop it!
Thommadura
> On Sun, 01 Nov 2009 09:13:09 -0500, Thommadura <tomm...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>> Michael Christ wrote:
>>> Michael Christ wrote:
>>>>> Where faith is, there is no sin.
>>> Duke wrote:
>>>> Only Christ expressed faith that wonderful.
>>> That is one of the reasons you must lose your life to Him.
>>>
>> We must NOT lose our life to anyone
>
> Then why do you answer to satan?
Still another fictional character of your MYTH that does not exist in
any real way.
Why do you worship a creator that created everything that is evil
(If you claim otherwise - the what did create evil - and why did your
ALMIGHTY god allow it if he is all good and all love?)
Michael Christ
>>> Only Christ expressed faith that wonderful.
Michael Christ wrote:
>>That is one of the reasons you must lose your life to Him.
Duke wrote:
> Living in the spirit will do. After all, he is all loving.
Trouble is with that,God decides what 'will do'. After all, He is the all
loving God who says you have to lose your life.
You just have to follow the directions through faith in Him, not the
limitedness of the bible, but faith in Him the Person living and moving in
your daily life.
Michael Christ
Thommadura
> Duke wrote:
>>>> Only Christ expressed faith that wonderful.
>
> Michael Christ wrote:
>>> That is one of the reasons you must lose your life to Him.
>
> Duke wrote:
>> Living in the spirit will do. After all, he is all loving.
>
> Trouble is with that,God decides what 'will do'.
Fine - let him come forward and do it
And stop hearing your opinions that have NO verification from a god
duke
>duke wrote:
>> On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 16:11:40 -0500, Thommadura <tomm...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>>> duke wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 12:01:33 GMT, "Zadok" <nob...@accesswave.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message ...
>>>>>> 1 John 1:8-10 (New International Version)
>>>>>> 8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not
>>>>> in
>>>>>> us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us
>>>>> our
>>>>>> sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
>>>>> But if that confession is to a butt fucking cath0_lick priest, all bets are
>>>>> off on the forgiveness part.
>>>> Nope. Jesus gave us a way to repent of our sins, to promise to change our ways,
>>>> and to be forgiven.
>>
>>> Since there is NO reason to repent - since HE is not the god of creation
>>> - he had nothing to do with it - even in your religion
>>
>> Then why did he tell us to repent?
>HE never existed that YOU can PROVE - he is a MYTH like Zeus and Apollo are
No, Jesus is historical.
>>>>> But if that confession is done in front of Idols, all bets are off on the
>>>>> forgiveness part.
>>>> No such thing. It takes a confessional.
>>> Either a god is ALL knowing - or it is not
>> He is, but the confessional gives us a choice, and it is our attitude that is
>> judged.
>Sorry - but if a god was all knowing - he knew what we were going to do
>BEFORE he even created the universe.
I know. He has known for 13.7 billion years (min) how many hairs will be on you
head at the moment you die. And he has known for the same number of years if
you will make that final right decision before you die.
Be wise, no matter how hard it is for you.
duke
The choice is yours. Choose carefully.
duke
>duke wrote:
>> On Sun, 01 Nov 2009 03:32:54 GMT, "Michael Christ" <Jesus...@Father.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Michael Christ wrote:
>>>>> Where faith is, there is no sin.
>>> Duke wrote:
>>
>>>> Only Christ expressed faith that wonderful.
>>
>>> That is one of the reasons you must lose your life to Him.
>>
>> Living in the spirit will do. After all, he is all loving.
>
>
>Yes - Today over 3000 children under the age of 6 will be sexually
>molested by other humans around the world. Surely - those children are
>NOT exercising their "CHOICE" in the matter.
That the bigger abuse the smaller is life as it exists. Nobody says it's right,
but that's the way it is. God didn't promise us a life of complete joy until we
are admitted to his presence. Those that live life outside the proper bounds
will live eternally in the fires of hell.
We speak of miracles when a physical occurrence works out to our benefit. And
ignore such a statement when it doesn't. God gives us a free choice, and it is
man's destiny to live once, die, and then be judged. Some die before birth, and
some at very old ages.
duke
wrote:
>Duke wrote:
>>>> Only Christ expressed faith that wonderful.
>
>Michael Christ wrote:
>>>That is one of the reasons you must lose your life to Him.
>
>Duke wrote:
>> Living in the spirit will do. After all, he is all loving.
>Trouble is with that,God decides what 'will do'. After all, He is the all
>loving God who says you have to lose your life.
God gave us an over-abundence of information in scripture on what "living in the
spirit" is all about. He well told us the two most important commandments
were 1) love God with all your heart, mind and soul, and 2) love your neighbor
as yourself. He then went further to upgrade 2) to be "love one another as I
have loved you", and that was to go to the cross out of full and complete
obedience to this Father.
See his fear at going to the cross in Mat 26:39. He sweated blood out of fear.
He is our example, our guide. He said "repent of your sins, pick up you own
cross, and follow me in service to God and our fellow man." It is the Christian
thing to do.
>You just have to follow the directions through faith in Him, not the
>limitedness of the bible, but faith in Him the Person living and moving in
>your daily life.
I use the words "living in the spirit" of Christ.
Thommadura
> On Sun, 01 Nov 2009 15:31:52 -0500, Thommadura <tomm...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>> duke wrote:
>>> On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 16:11:40 -0500, Thommadura <tomm...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> duke wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 12:01:33 GMT, "Zadok" <nob...@accesswave.ca> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message ...
>>>>>>> 1 John 1:8-10 (New International Version)
>>>>>>> 8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not
>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us
>>>>>> our
>>>>>>> sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
>>>>>> But if that confession is to a butt fucking cath0_lick priest, all bets are
>>>>>> off on the forgiveness part.
>>>>> Nope. Jesus gave us a way to repent of our sins, to promise to change our ways,
>>>>> and to be forgiven.
>>>> Since there is NO reason to repent - since HE is not the god of creation
>>>> - he had nothing to do with it - even in your religion
>>> Then why did he tell us to repent?
>
>> HE never existed that YOU can PROVE - he is a MYTH like Zeus and Apollo are
>
> No, Jesus is historical.
Sorry - but since YOU present NO proof of that - the MYTH of the christ
may be historical - but is no more TRUE than the myth of Sea Monsters
>
>>>>>> But if that confession is done in front of Idols, all bets are off on the
>>>>>> forgiveness part.
>
>>>>> No such thing. It takes a confessional.
>>>> Either a god is ALL knowing - or it is not
>
>>> He is, but the confessional gives us a choice, and it is our attitude that is
>>> judged.
>
>> Sorry - but if a god was all knowing - he knew what we were going to do
>> BEFORE he even created the universe.
>
>
> I know. He has known for 13.7 billion years (min) how many hairs will be on you
> head at the moment you die. And he has known for the same number of years if
> you will make that final right decision before you die.
Sorry - but if HE knew it before I was born - I was GIVEN no choice
Of course - since it is ALL a MYTH anyway - it has no bearing in reality
that YOU can prove
Be wise - no matter how hard it is for your
Thommadura
> On Sun, 01 Nov 2009 15:32:24 -0500, Thommadura <tomm...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>> duke wrote:
>>> On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 16:14:10 -0500, Thommadura <tomm...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> duke wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 11:19:46 -0500, Thommadura <tomm...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> duke wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 10:17:39 GMT, "Michael Christ" <Jesus...@Father.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Where faith is, there is no sin.
>>>>>>> Unless it's just lip service.
>>>>>> And where can YOU prove it is ANYTHING ELSE?
>>>>> In your heart, and as determined by God.
>>>> So - have your god appear and tell us his determination - I am tired of
>>>> hearing YOUR nonsense
>>> He already did. Fortuantely, I'm not challenged as you are. Good luck.
>>
>> Really -= PROVE it
>
> The choice is yours. Choose carefully.
Indeed - because there are NO gods involved in the decisions that YOU
have proven to exist.
And As I noted - your god still has not appeared and verified your nonsense
That alone calls into question what you say.
Thommadura
> On Sun, 01 Nov 2009 15:36:52 -0500, Thommadura <tomm...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>> duke wrote:
>>> On Sun, 01 Nov 2009 03:32:54 GMT, "Michael Christ" <Jesus...@Father.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Michael Christ wrote:
>>>>>> Where faith is, there is no sin.
>>>> Duke wrote:
>>>>> Only Christ expressed faith that wonderful.
>>>> That is one of the reasons you must lose your life to Him.
>>> Living in the spirit will do. After all, he is all loving.
>>
>> Yes - Today over 3000 children under the age of 6 will be sexually
>> molested by other humans around the world. Surely - those children are
>> NOT exercising their "CHOICE" in the matter.
>
> That the bigger abuse the smaller is life as it exists. Nobody says it's right,
> but that's the way it is. God didn't promise us a life of complete joy until we
> are admitted to his presence. Those that live life outside the proper bounds
> will live eternally in the fires of hell.
Even if the number was one - that still means your are worshipping a
pervert who just looks down and watches
Michael Christ
Of course.
If you love Him with all your heart then you have lost your life. Nothing
less than that will do though.
Michael Christ
Fred Thomas
something historical.
>>>>>> But if that confession is done in front of Idols, all bets are off on the
>>>>>> forgiveness part.
>
>>>>> No such thing. It takes a confessional.
>>>> Either a god is ALL knowing - or it is not
>
>>> He is, but the confessional gives us a choice, and it is our attitude that
>>> is
>>> judged.
>
>>Sorry - but if a god was all knowing - he knew what we were going to do
>>BEFORE he even created the universe.
>
>
> I know. He has known for 13.7 billion years (min) how many hairs will be on
> you
> head at the moment you die. And he has known for the same number of years if
> you will make that final right decision before you die.
>
> Be wise, no matter how hard it is for you.
>
Oh please, what man made god does not have this ability?
ThomM
created the universe.
>
> I know. He has known for 13.7 billion years (min) how many hairs will be on you
> head at the moment you die. And he has known for the same number of years if
> you will make that final right decision before you die.
And if THAT is true - then that means the decision was made BEFORE any
of us were actually born to make it - therefore no choice is actually
possible.
IF a choice is possible - then the god could not have known about it
UNTIL that choice is made by us - NOT before. But then - that would
mean he is NOT all knowing and therefore not a god.
Either way - the story invalidates your statement
duke
It's your funeral. You have the same information as I do. A&E told God they
were in charge, and look at what it got them.
>>>>>>> But if that confession is done in front of Idols, all bets are off on the
>>>>>>> forgiveness part.
>>
>>>>>> No such thing. It takes a confessional.
>>>>> Either a god is ALL knowing - or it is not
>>
>>>> He is, but the confessional gives us a choice, and it is our attitude that is
>>>> judged.
>>
>>> Sorry - but if a god was all knowing - he knew what we were going to do
>>> BEFORE he even created the universe.
>>
>>
>> I know. He has known for 13.7 billion years (min) how many hairs will be on you
>> head at the moment you die. And he has known for the same number of years if
>> you will make that final right decision before you die.
>Sorry - but if HE knew it before I was born - I was GIVEN no choice
Sorry, but knowing what your final free choice was going to be is not locking
you in.
>Of course - since it is ALL a MYTH anyway - it has no bearing in reality
>that YOU can prove
There you go. As long as it's a myth, you have nothing to worry about, do you.
duke
>> No, Jesus is historical.
>Why? Because a few short stories were written? Being in print does not make
>something historical.
That's like saying that the history of WWII is just a few short stories.
duke
>duke wrote:
>> On Sun, 01 Nov 2009 15:32:24 -0500, Thommadura <tomm...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>>> duke wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 16:14:10 -0500, Thommadura <tomm...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> duke wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 11:19:46 -0500, Thommadura <tomm...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> duke wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 10:17:39 GMT, "Michael Christ" <Jesus...@Father.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Where faith is, there is no sin.
>>>>>>>> Unless it's just lip service.
>>>>>>> And where can YOU prove it is ANYTHING ELSE?
>>>>>> In your heart, and as determined by God.
>>>>> So - have your god appear and tell us his determination - I am tired of
>>>>> hearing YOUR nonsense
>>>> He already did. Fortuantely, I'm not challenged as you are. Good luck.
>>>
>>> Really -= PROVE it
>>
>> The choice is yours. Choose carefully.
>Indeed - because there are NO gods involved in the decisions that YOU
>have proven to exist.
And I never will be able to prove that God exists. That knowledge is reserved
for the next life. But I do have all the evidence supporting my beliefs.
duke
wrote:
I don't think I can go along with that completely. We are all sinners except
Jesus Christ (Heb 4:15, 1 John 1:8-10). Our human nature simply prevents us
from following in the spirit of the Lord that completely. Hence, our daily
lives are filled with human sin through our own fault - in our words and in our
thoughts, in what we do and what we don't do.
Our move then is to recognize our shortcomings, and then move solidly to
eliminate these from ourselves, even though by definition we cannot be fully
successful.
This is why the Lord gave us a way to correct ourselves when we do sin in the
sacrament of Confession. Recognizing that we live with minor to serious sin on
our souls on a regular basis, our only action is to recognize this problem,
repent (promise) to avoid these thru our own desire, and to acknowledge our
failures to God, and ask forgiveness and absolution of the temporal punishment
for our sinfulness.
Thommadura
IF I could do something he did not KNOW - that would be true - and of
course also eliminate the ALL knowing
As long as I HAD to do exactly what he already knew BEFORE I existed -
that IS locking me in - and giving NO choice.
As I note - if the choice was known before I was born - I had no
involvement in it - and therefore had no choice
Thommadura
> On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 19:33:07 -0500, "Fred Thomas" <fr...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>> No, Jesus is historical.
>
>> Why? Because a few short stories were written? Being in print does not make
>> something historical.
>
> That's like saying that the history of WWII is just a few short stories.
There are dozens of stories about the Wizard of OZ - and about
Leprechuans - as well as about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny - the
Tooth fairy - and about gods- and just because the stories exist - does
not mean the stories are TRUE - does it. After ALL - you reject millions
of stories of gods and religions as not being true.
Chirstian love to point to the writings of Josephus - whose mention of
the christ is questionable - as proof of their belief. However IN those
very same writings - Jospehus wrote often about Zeus being the father
and head of all gods.
So - does that make Zeus the father of the christ then?
Fred Thomas
> On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 19:33:07 -0500, "Fred Thomas" <fr...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>> No, Jesus is historical.
>
>>Why? Because a few short stories were written? Being in print does not make
>>something historical.
>
> That's like saying that the history of WWII is just a few short stories.
>
Problem with your argument is that it supports what I wrote, there is REAL
evidence of the events of WW2 and that makes WW2 an actual historical event.
There is none for your Jesus dude. So, as I say, being in print does not make it
so. Evidence backing up the print about your Jesus dude is needed, other wise
it's just a story book.
Fred Thomas
You mean evidence as used in the witch hunts of old? Or the evidence used to
determine if a dead body is a vampire or not?
duke
But your final free choice is still your final free choice.
>As long as I HAD to do exactly what he already knew BEFORE I existed -
>that IS locking me in - and giving NO choice.
>As I note - if the choice was known before I was born - I had no
>involvement in it - and therefore had no choice
Cry all you want. You're desperate to pretend that your final free choice can
be different than your final free choice.
heeheeheeheheee.
duke
>duke wrote:
>> On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 19:33:07 -0500, "Fred Thomas" <fr...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> No, Jesus is historical.
>>
>>> Why? Because a few short stories were written? Being in print does not make
>>> something historical.
>>
>> That's like saying that the history of WWII is just a few short stories.
>
>
>There are dozens of stories about the Wizard of OZ - and about
>Leprechuans - as well as about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny - the
>Tooth fairy - and about gods- and just because the stories exist - does
>not mean the stories are TRUE - does it. After ALL - you reject millions
>of stories of gods and religions as not being true.
THEY..........aren't true.
>Chirstian love to point to the writings of Josephus - whose mention of
>the christ is questionable - as proof of their belief. However IN those
>very same writings - Jospehus wrote often about Zeus being the father
>and head of all gods.
>So - does that make Zeus the father of the christ then?
Zeus never lived.
duke
>
>"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
>news:cu70f554htqs2nuks...@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 19:33:07 -0500, "Fred Thomas" <fr...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> No, Jesus is historical.
>>
>>>Why? Because a few short stories were written? Being in print does not make
>>>something historical.
>>
>> That's like saying that the history of WWII is just a few short stories.
>Problem with your argument is that it supports what I wrote, there is REAL
>evidence of the events of WW2 and that makes WW2 an actual historical event.
>There is none for your Jesus dude.
Of course there's evidence. Or are you suggesting that history is no longer
history when the last eye witness dies?
Obviously, the historical record of WWII is much greater than the historical
record of the life of Jesus.
> So, as I say, being in print does not make it
>so. Evidence backing up the print about your Jesus dude is needed, other wise
>it's just a story book.
Nobody cares if you think you can declare what is evidence and what isn't.
duke
????
Thommadura
Sorry - but since it was made BEFORE I was born - then I did not make
that choice
>
>> As long as I HAD to do exactly what he already knew BEFORE I existed -
>> that IS locking me in - and giving NO choice.
>> As I note - if the choice was known before I was born - I had no
>> involvement in it - and therefore had no choice
>
> Cry all you want. You're desperate to pretend that your final free choice can
> be different than your final free choice.
Not Crying at all - you are just spouting something that cannot actually
be true in reality.
And that is LAUGHABLE -
Thommadura
> On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:16:54 -0500, Thommadura <tomm...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>> duke wrote:
>>> On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 19:33:07 -0500, "Fred Thomas" <fr...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> No, Jesus is historical.
>>>> Why? Because a few short stories were written? Being in print does not make
>>>> something historical.
>>> That's like saying that the history of WWII is just a few short stories.
>>
>> There are dozens of stories about the Wizard of OZ - and about
>> Leprechuans - as well as about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny - the
>> Tooth fairy - and about gods- and just because the stories exist - does
>> not mean the stories are TRUE - does it. After ALL - you reject millions
>> of stories of gods and religions as not being true.
>
> THEY..........aren't true.
And since that includes YOURS as well - I agree
>
>> Chirstian love to point to the writings of Josephus - whose mention of
>> the christ is questionable - as proof of their belief. However IN those
>> very same writings - Jospehus wrote often about Zeus being the father
>> and head of all gods.
>
>> So - does that make Zeus the father of the christ then?
>
> Zeus never lived.
Neither did the christ - so you are again correct
Thommadura
> On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 20:30:25 -0500, "Fred Thomas" <fr...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> "duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
>> news:cu70f554htqs2nuks...@4ax.com...
>>> On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 19:33:07 -0500, "Fred Thomas" <fr...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> No, Jesus is historical.
>>>> Why? Because a few short stories were written? Being in print does not make
>>>> something historical.
>>> That's like saying that the history of WWII is just a few short stories.
>
>> Problem with your argument is that it supports what I wrote, there is REAL
>> evidence of the events of WW2 and that makes WW2 an actual historical event.
>> There is none for your Jesus dude.
>
> Of course there's evidence. Or are you suggesting that history is no longer
> history when the last eye witness dies?
And MYTH is MYTH - even when people continue to make claims
>
> Obviously, the historical record of WWII is much greater than the historical
> record of the life of Jesus.
>
>> So, as I say, being in print does not make it
>> so. Evidence backing up the print about your Jesus dude is needed, other wise
>> it's just a story book.
>
> Nobody cares if you think you can declare what is evidence and what isn't.
Only proof that you have no PROOF to give - Duke'
If you did - you would cram it down out throats -
Thommadura
He has NONE
Fred Thomas
> On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:16:54 -0500, Thommadura <tomm...@optonline.net>
> wrote:
>
>>duke wrote:
>>> On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 19:33:07 -0500, "Fred Thomas" <fr...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> No, Jesus is historical.
>>>
>>>> Why? Because a few short stories were written? Being in print does not make
>>>> something historical.
>>>
>>> That's like saying that the history of WWII is just a few short stories.
>>
>>
>>There are dozens of stories about the Wizard of OZ - and about
>>Leprechuans - as well as about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny - the
>>Tooth fairy - and about gods- and just because the stories exist - does
>>not mean the stories are TRUE - does it. After ALL - you reject millions
>>of stories of gods and religions as not being true.
>
> THEY..........aren't true.
And what makes you so sure that your one story book is true? As noted before,
there is no evidence to support the book, and a lot of evidence to show it's
nothing but borrowed myths from older religions.
Fred Thomas
> On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 20:30:25 -0500, "Fred Thomas" <fr...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
>>news:cu70f554htqs2nuks...@4ax.com...
>>> On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 19:33:07 -0500, "Fred Thomas" <fr...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> No, Jesus is historical.
>>>
>>>>Why? Because a few short stories were written? Being in print does not make
>>>>something historical.
>>>
>>> That's like saying that the history of WWII is just a few short stories.
>
>>Problem with your argument is that it supports what I wrote, there is REAL
>>evidence of the events of WW2 and that makes WW2 an actual historical event.
>>There is none for your Jesus dude.
>
> Of course there's evidence. Or are you suggesting that history is no longer
> history when the last eye witness dies?
>
There were no "eye witness".
> Obviously, the historical record of WWII is much greater than the historical
> record of the life of Jesus.
>
If this Jesus dude was so magical as the myth book claims, there would be no
need for the story book, think about it.
Fred Thomas
Stumped? I'll bet Thommadura got it.
Thommadura
PROVE it!
duke
>duke wrote:
>> On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:16:54 -0500, Thommadura <tomm...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>>> duke wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 19:33:07 -0500, "Fred Thomas" <fr...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> No, Jesus is historical.
>>>>> Why? Because a few short stories were written? Being in print does not make
>>>>> something historical.
>>>> That's like saying that the history of WWII is just a few short stories.
>>>
>>> There are dozens of stories about the Wizard of OZ - and about
>>> Leprechuans - as well as about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny - the
>>> Tooth fairy - and about gods- and just because the stories exist - does
>>> not mean the stories are TRUE - does it. After ALL - you reject millions
>>> of stories of gods and religions as not being true.
>>
>> THEY..........aren't true.
>
>And since that includes YOURS as well - I agree
Your demise is to your account, not mine.
>>> Chirstian love to point to the writings of Josephus - whose mention of
>>> the christ is questionable - as proof of their belief. However IN those
>>> very same writings - Jospehus wrote often about Zeus being the father
>>> and head of all gods.
>>
>>> So - does that make Zeus the father of the christ then?
>> Zeus never lived.
>Neither did the christ - so you are again correct
Jesus historically walked the earth 2000 years ago.
duke
>
>"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
>news:qmu2f513g678fnv91...@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:16:54 -0500, Thommadura <tomm...@optonline.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>duke wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 19:33:07 -0500, "Fred Thomas" <fr...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> No, Jesus is historical.
>>>>
>>>>> Why? Because a few short stories were written? Being in print does not make
>>>>> something historical.
>>>>
>>>> That's like saying that the history of WWII is just a few short stories.
>>>
>>>
>>>There are dozens of stories about the Wizard of OZ - and about
>>>Leprechuans - as well as about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny - the
>>>Tooth fairy - and about gods- and just because the stories exist - does
>>>not mean the stories are TRUE - does it. After ALL - you reject millions
>>>of stories of gods and religions as not being true.
>>
>> THEY..........aren't true.
>
>And what makes you so sure that your one story book is true?
It's not a "one story" book. It's multiple books under one cover.
duke
Check your book of mythology.
duke
>duke wrote:
>> On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 20:30:25 -0500, "Fred Thomas" <fr...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> "duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
>>> news:cu70f554htqs2nuks...@4ax.com...
>>>> On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 19:33:07 -0500, "Fred Thomas" <fr...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> No, Jesus is historical.
>>>>> Why? Because a few short stories were written? Being in print does not make
>>>>> something historical.
>>>> That's like saying that the history of WWII is just a few short stories.
>>
>>> Problem with your argument is that it supports what I wrote, there is REAL
>>> evidence of the events of WW2 and that makes WW2 an actual historical event.
>>> There is none for your Jesus dude.
>>
>> Of course there's evidence. Or are you suggesting that history is no longer
>> history when the last eye witness dies?
>
>And MYTH is MYTH - even when people continue to make claims
And Truth is Truth - even when ignorant people as you continue to make claims.
duke
>
>"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
>news:kou2f5tvkbksip8rp...@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 20:30:25 -0500, "Fred Thomas" <fr...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
>>>news:cu70f554htqs2nuks...@4ax.com...
>>>> On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 19:33:07 -0500, "Fred Thomas" <fr...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> No, Jesus is historical.
>>>>
>>>>>Why? Because a few short stories were written? Being in print does not make
>>>>>something historical.
>>>>
>>>> That's like saying that the history of WWII is just a few short stories.
>>
>>>Problem with your argument is that it supports what I wrote, there is REAL
>>>evidence of the events of WW2 and that makes WW2 an actual historical event.
>>>There is none for your Jesus dude.
>>
>> Of course there's evidence. Or are you suggesting that history is no longer
>> history when the last eye witness dies?
>There were no "eye witness".
There was for the presence of Jesus.
duke
He's ignorant.
Fred Thomas
Fred Thomas
book. A story book that I might add is not even very original in content, lots
of plagiarism in it. Also as I said before......"If this Jesus dude was so
think about it."
> The Dukester, American-American
Fred Thomas
Ignorance, lack of knowledge in a subject. Far better to be ignorant than unable
to learn, i.e. stupid.
duke
>
>"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
>news:qs78f5lqr5k8i3vpt...@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 17:52:26 -0500, "Fred Thomas" <fr...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
>>>news:qmu2f513g678fnv91...@4ax.com...
>>>> On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:16:54 -0500, Thommadura <tomm...@optonline.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>duke wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 19:33:07 -0500, "Fred Thomas" <fr...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, Jesus is historical.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why? Because a few short stories were written? Being in print does not
>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>> something historical.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's like saying that the history of WWII is just a few short stories.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>There are dozens of stories about the Wizard of OZ - and about
>>>>>Leprechuans - as well as about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny - the
>>>>>Tooth fairy - and about gods- and just because the stories exist - does
>>>>>not mean the stories are TRUE - does it. After ALL - you reject millions
>>>>>of stories of gods and religions as not being true.
>>>>
>>>> THEY..........aren't true.
>>>
>>>And what makes you so sure that your one story book is true?
>>
>> It's not a "one story" book. It's multiple books under one cover.
>>
>What's the point, it's still just a story book.
1. It's a historical record of the words, actions, beliefs and religious habits
of the new Chrisitian people some 30-60 years after Christ.
2. The Book addresses what man must do to obtain eternal salvation with God in
heaven.
duke
>
>"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
>news:o088f5ph3vbga7k8r...@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 17:55:56 -0500, "Fred Thomas" <fr...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
>>>news:kou2f5tvkbksip8rp...@4ax.com...
>>>> On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 20:30:25 -0500, "Fred Thomas" <fr...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
>>>>>news:cu70f554htqs2nuks...@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 19:33:07 -0500, "Fred Thomas" <fr...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, Jesus is historical.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Why? Because a few short stories were written? Being in print does not
>>>>>>>make
>>>>>>>something historical.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's like saying that the history of WWII is just a few short stories.
>>>>
>>>>>Problem with your argument is that it supports what I wrote, there is REAL
>>>>>evidence of the events of WW2 and that makes WW2 an actual historical event.
>>>>>There is none for your Jesus dude.
>>>>
>>>> Of course there's evidence. Or are you suggesting that history is no longer
>>>> history when the last eye witness dies?
>>
>>>There were no "eye witness".
>>
>> There was for the presence of Jesus.
>Not a one. Your "eye witnesses" are just fictional characters in your story
>book.
Can you provide evidence that they were just fictional characters? If not, I'll
stick with the truth.
> A story book that I might add is not even very original in content, lots
>of plagiarism in it. Also as I said before......"If this Jesus dude was so
>magical as the myth book claims, there would be no need for the story book,
>think about it."
Jesus was definitely not magical.
duke
Neither you nor t-boy reflects the presence of the least bit of historical
evidence available.
ThomM
> On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 18:52:05 -0500, "Fred Thomas" <f...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >"duke" <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote in message
> >news:qs78f5lqr5k8i3vpt...@4ax.com...
> >> On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 17:52:26 -0500, "Fred Thomas" <f...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >>>"duke" <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote in message
> >>>news:qmu2f513g678fnv91...@4ax.com...
> >>>> On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:16:54 -0500, Thommadura <tommad...@optonline.net>
> >>>> wrote:
>
> >>>>>duke wrote:
> >>>>>> On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 19:33:07 -0500, "Fred Thomas" <f...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>> No, Jesus is historical.
>
> >>>>>>> Why? Because a few short stories were written? Being in print does not
> >>>>>>> make
> >>>>>>> something historical.
>
> >>>>>> That's like saying that the history of WWII is just a few short stories.
>
> >>>>>There are dozens of stories about the Wizard of OZ - and about
> >>>>>Leprechuans - as well as about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny - the
> >>>>>Tooth fairy - and about gods- and just because the stories exist - does
> >>>>>not mean the stories are TRUE - does it. After ALL - you reject millions
> >>>>>of stories of gods and religions as not being true.
>
> >>>> THEY..........aren't true.
>
> >>>And what makes you so sure that your one story book is true?
>
> >> It's not a "one story" book. It's multiple books under one cover.
>
> >What's the point, it's still just a story book.
>
> 1. It's a historical record of the words, actions, beliefs and religious habits
> of the new Chrisitian people some 30-60 years after Christ.
Sorry - it is belief - and cannot be proven to be historical
THere is no "evidence" in any documents that can be dated to the time
of the christ (the NT is not one of them) - that even mentions his
name,
>
> 2. The Book addresses what man must do to obtain eternal salvation with God in
> heaven.
No proof of gods
No proof of heaven
No proof of the need for salvation
If you cannot support your statements with facts - we can simply
dismiss what YOU say as unsupported by you
ThomM
> On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 18:58:26 -0500, "Fred Thomas" <f...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >"duke" <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote in message
> >news:o088f5ph3vbga7k8r...@4ax.com...
> >> On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 17:55:56 -0500, "Fred Thomas" <f...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >>>"duke" <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote in message
> >>>news:kou2f5tvkbksip8rp...@4ax.com...
> >>>> On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 20:30:25 -0500, "Fred Thomas" <f...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>>"duke" <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote in message
> >>>>>news:cu70f554htqs2nuks...@4ax.com...
> >>>>>> On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 19:33:07 -0500, "Fred Thomas" <f...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>> No, Jesus is historical.
>
> >>>>>>>Why? Because a few short stories were written? Being in print does not
> >>>>>>>make
> >>>>>>>something historical.
>
> >>>>>> That's like saying that the history of WWII is just a few short stories.
>
> >>>>>Problem with your argument is that it supports what I wrote, there is REAL
> >>>>>evidence of the events of WW2 and that makes WW2 an actual historical event.
> >>>>>There is none for your Jesus dude.
>
> >>>> Of course there's evidence. Or are you suggesting that history is no longer
> >>>> history when the last eye witness dies?
>
> >>>There were no "eye witness".
>
> >> There was for the presence of Jesus.
> >Not a one. Your "eye witnesses" are just fictional characters in your story
> >book.
>
> Can you provide evidence that they were just fictional characters? If not, I'll
> stick with the truth.
>
> > A story book that I might add is not even very original in content, lots
> >of plagiarism in it. Also as I said before......"If this Jesus dude was so
> >magical as the myth book claims, there would be no need for the story book,
> >think about it."
>
> Jesus was definitely not magical.
Myth's don;t actually exist
ThomM
>
> Neither you nor t-boy reflects the presence of the least bit of historical
> evidence available.
And since you have NO historical evidence from the supposed time of
the christ - neither does your nonsense either
ThomM
> On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 19:01:05 -0500, "Fred Thomas" <f...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >"duke" <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote in message
> >news:e288f5tj5j2s9qjcu...@4ax.com...
> >> On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 17:57:29 -0500, "Fred Thomas" <f...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >>>"duke" <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote in message
> >>>news:itu2f55as5u6ah9l7...@4ax.com...
> >>>> On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 20:34:04 -0500, "Fred Thomas" <f...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>>"duke" <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote in message
> >>>>>news:n080f5la8c568cv84...@4ax.com...
> >>>>>> On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 11:27:34 -0500, Thommadura <tommad...@optonline.net>
> >>>>>> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>duke wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Sun, 01 Nov 2009 15:32:24 -0500, Thommadura <tommad...@optonline.net>
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>> duke wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 16:14:10 -0500, Thommadura
> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>>>> duke wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 11:19:46 -0500, Thommadura
> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> duke wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 10:17:39 GMT, "Michael Christ"
Noting that you have posted no such evidence - apparently there is
nothing
However - that still does not change the facts
Truth is something provable to all
A court does not establish truth - only reasonable doubt - and based
on the evidence you have failed to present - it is reasonable to doubt
YOU.
And since the Agnostic position is based on proof - and truth - the
agnostic will always have truth on their side - since YOU have already
admitted that you have NO PROOF.
ThomM
> >Stumped? I'll bet Thommadura got it.
>
> He's ignorant.
Of what about gods and religions that you can PROVE
Provide a list of all the things you can PROVE along with the proof.
Evidence does not establish fact.
Fred Thomas
It is a story book whit some real places, some real people, but a fictional
story, much on the same as Dan Browns
Da Vinci Code.
> 2. The Book addresses what man must do to obtain eternal salvation with God
> in
> heaven.
>
Which is just this story books not new but rehashed concepts from other
religions.
As the bible has been proved to be an unreliable guide on matters such as
history, science and biology, why do you assume that it can be trusted on
matters concerning ethics, morality and theology?
Fred Thomas
Lack of evidence is evidence, there is nothing to show even a hint of these "eye
witness" ever living in the way of archaeological records, there is nothing
just stories. Example the Jersey Deve, man in the moon, bugs bunny. Names in
print and other media, yet made up. That is what your "eye witness" are, made up
charters in a story book. If they actually existed as you claim, because of the
"importance" of them being who they are supposed to be there would be physicial
evidence.
>> A story book that I might add is not even very original in content, lots
>>of plagiarism in it. Also as I said before......"If this Jesus dude was so
>>magical as the myth book claims, there would be no need for the story book,
>>think about it."
>
> Jesus was definitely not magical.
>
Magical: an extraordinary power or influence seemingly from a supernatural
source. Sorry dude, your god man and his alter ego or split personalities of the
trilogy very much meets the definition of magical. Your silly story book is full
of magical, mystical, supernatural events.
Fred Thomas
Fact, you have no evidence, thus the dodge.