PRE-CHRISTIAN PRETERISM
Pastor Dave
PRE-CHRISTIAN PRETERISM
Expectation of a "Romano-Judaic Eschaton" in First Century
BC/AD Judaism as Revealed in the Dead Sea Scrolls.
"And we recognize that some of the blessings and curses
have come, (24) those written in the Book of Moses;
therefore this is the End of Days" (4Q397 - 399)
The Dead Sea Scrolls and other archeological finds are
pouring light onto the period of time reckoned by Preterists
as "the last days": AD 30-70. When fleeing Jerusalem
during the Roman siege, scribes sealed numerous texts
into the caves of the southwest Dead Sea area. A portion
of these was first discovered in 1947, with many more
finds since then. Below are excerpts from the various
scrolls. They collectively teach that they lived in "the
end of days" and that a ruler was coming out of the East
who would rule the world. Josephus and others reckoned
this figure with Roman general Vespasian, who was indeed
hailed Emperor by his legions while still in Palestine.
Regardless, the glory of Christ's throne outshines that of
Vespasian to this day, and shows no sign of diminishing.
The "War Scroll" pits the Romans against Israel, using the
term "Kittim" or "Chaldea" to refer to the Roman Empire.
The "Roman-Judean" end times view expressed in the
Dead Sea Scrolls is also precisely what was taught by
Daniel, Jesus, the first century Christians, and is also
what is believed by Preterist Christians today.
JEWISH SOURCES - Comments from Josephus, the Talmud,
Midrashim, and Apocalyptic Literature, including that found
in among the Dead Sea Scrolls. Contemporary Jewish
literature is also collected under the classification.
PRE-CHRISTIAN PRETERISM:
THE DEAD SEA SCROLLS AND "THE KITTIM"
DEAD SEA SCROLLS - Materials Unearthed From Judean
Wilderness (From roughly second century B.C. to A.D.68
- Color coded with Jewish Sources)
Kittim as Rome - Pre-Christian Preterism
Refugees from Jerusalem's besiegement stored numerous
documents east of the city near Qumran. Also found are
likely Essene sect scrolls (Calvinistic Apocalypticism).
They are all of utmost significance for first century
studies, and are highly preteristic -- the commentaries
(persherim) on Daniel and Habakkuk found among the
documents remarkably identify the Romans with the
apocalyptic nation referred to as "Chaldea" or "Kittim"
in Numbers 24:24 and Daniel 11:30, making it the
earliest known Preterist commentary (pre 68 B.C.)
This point is quite important, for if the Kittim of the Dead
Sea Scrolls is to be identified with Rome, then according
to their interpretation, the full scope of biblical prophecy
ends with reference to Rome. This is pre-christian
preterism indeed!
Numbers 24:24 (Balaam's prophecy) "But ships will come
from the coast of Kittim to subdue Ashur and subdue
'Ever, but they too will come to destruction. 25 Then Bil'am
got up, left and returned to his home; and Balak too went
his way.."
Daniel 11:30 (Daniel's prophecy) "For ships of Kittim shall
come against him; therefore he shall be grieved, and shall
return, and have indignation against the holy covenant,
and shall do [his pleasure]: he shall even return, and have
regard to those who forsake the holy covenant. [Rendered
In the Latin Vulgate (A.D.405): 11:30 Et veniet super eum
Trieres, et Romani: Daniel 11:30 "For the Romans shall
come against him]
Habakkuk 1:6 (Habakkuk's prophecy) "For, behold, I raise
up the Kasdim, that bitter and hasty nation, that march
through the breadth of the eretz, to possess dwelling places
that are not theirs." (Jewish Names Bible)
The first scholar to investigate the scrolls seemed likewise
excited by this possibility: "The new leather fragment now
provided a first-century B.C.-A.D. testimony to the accuracy
of the text as it has been preserved - Kasidim was clearly
in the text used by the copyist. The next line, however,
begins, "Its interpretation concerns the Kittim....
"The modern theory had already been propounded by
interpretation by the ancient community two thousand
years earlier!" - John C. Trever, The Untold Story of Qumran
Habakkuk 1:6
"For, behold, I raise up the Kasdim, that bitter and hasty
nation, that march through the breadth of the eretz,
to possess dwelling places that are not theirs."
Comment:
"Its interpretation concerns the Kittim"
Closer Look at the Habakkuk Pesher
Kittim ..in Dead Sea Scrolls texts serves as a code word
for "Romans"
Habakkuk 1:11
"Then he sweeps by like the wind, and goes on.
He is indeed guilty, whose strength is his god."
Comment:
"Interpreted, [this concerns] the commanders of the
Kittim who, on the counsel of [the] House of Guilt,
pass one in front of the other; one after another
[their] commanders come to lay waste the earth."
'Kittim' as 'the Romans' interpretation early example of
precise preterist interpretations. The coming destruction
at the hands of a 'heathen power' was an ancient message,
dating before Moses' declarations in Deuteronomy 28.
However, the identification of this 'heathen power' as
Rome (Kittim) is found in Septuagint Daniel and the
Habakkuk Commentary found among the Dead Sea Scrolls.
The Syriac Commentary on the Septuagint's Daniel dates
between 3rd century B.C. - 1st century B.C.; The "Habakkuk
Scroll" dates "prior to 63 B.C."
F.F. Bruce: New Testament History (Kittim is Rome)
"They believed that the iniquities of the Wicked Priest
and his associates would bring the judgement of God
upon them. As time went on, they came to see clearly
who would be the instruments of God's judgement.
God was raising up the 'Kittim' for this purpose, and by
the 'Kittim', as has been said above, they probably meant
the Romans. It was indeed the Romans who, by their
occupation of Judaea in 63 B.C., put an end to Hasmonaean
domination; but the Qumran community could see the shape
of things to come before that date. They also saw that the
Romans would exceed the terms of their commission and
incur the divine judgement themselves because of their
impiety and rapacity."
John Dominic Crosson "The Romans were not singled out as
much in their (Essene) secterian documents, although against
them, in their so-called War Scroll, they were preparing to
fight the ultimate apocalyptic battle. This was to take
place at the end time, when Sons of Light, the members
of the group, were to clash with the Sons of Darkness,
the Romans, code-named the Kittim. A battle against Rome
did take place eventually, when the Roman general and
soon-to-be emperor Vespasian marched through the area
on his way to Jerusalem in the early summer of 68 C.E.
But the Qumran Essenes' final battle did not end as the
War Scroll imagined. What de Vaux labeled and archeologists
still call Phase II of the site ended in fiery destruction,
with Roman arrowheads scattered around the site. In their
final desperate act, the members took and hid their sacred
scrolls in nearby caves, rolled up in storage jars with
bowls and lids, and they were not discovered again until
a Bedouin shepherd stumbled upon them in 1947."
(Excavating Jesus, p. 158)
Jones, Robert C. The Dead Sea Scrolls and Christianity
(1999) "�Kittim� Commentary on Habakkuk 1:17: �This
means the Kittim, who cause many to perish by the sword
� youths, men, and old men; women and little children �
and on the fruit of the womb have no mercy.� (Burrows,
p. 367) War Scroll: And the dominion of the Kittim shall
come to an end, so that wickedness shall be laid low
without any remnant; and there shall be no survivor
of the sons of darkness.� (Burrows, p. 390)
On Some Points Connected with the Essenes - Lightfoot
Dead Sea Scrolls: Reference Materials "It has also been
hypothesized that the Qumran scrolls are the secreted
library of a community, perhaps Essene, that lived at
Qumran, and thus survived the destruction of the settlement
in c.A.D. 68. Startling parallels in expression and thought
between the Qumran materials and the New Testament
have led to speculation as to their influence on early
Christianity." (Kittim: "Term appearing in the Dead Sea
Scrolls, used of the Romans. The Kittim are referred to
as warriors from the west, who capture Jerusalem."
Thanksgiving Hymn (I Cent.)
Scroll Fragments: Cave Tour
The Ballad of the White Horse (1911) - G.K. Chesterton
"For the White Horse knew England When there was none
to know; He saw the first oar break or bend, He saw heaven
fall and the world end, O God, how long ago.
For the end of the world was long ago, And all we dwell
to-day as children of some second birth, like a strange
people left on earth, After a judgment day.
For the end of the world was long ago, when the ends
of the world waxed free, when Rome was sunk in a waste
of slaves, And the sun drowned in the sea.
When Caesar's sun fell out of the sky, and whoso
hearkened right could only hear the plunging,
of the nations in the night.
When the ends of the earth came marching in, to torch
and cresset gleam. And the roads of the world that lead
to Rome, Were filled with faces that moved like foam,
like faces in a dream.
To see it all, please go to:
http://www.preteristarchive.com/ChurchHistory/index.html
--
Pastor Dave
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"To recognize flaws in others is common; to recognize in self,
saintly. - Unknown
randy
"Pastor Dave"
> PRE-CHRISTIAN PRETERISM
> Expectation of a "Romano-Judaic Eschaton" in First Century
> BC/AD Judaism as Revealed in the Dead Sea Scrolls.
> "And we recognize that some of the blessings and curses
> have come, (24) those written in the Book of Moses;
> therefore this is the End of Days" (4Q397 - 399)
Belief that Jesus' Olivet Discourse equated the fall of Jerusalem with the
invasion of Rome does *not* mean there was expectation of "the last day."
There is a definite distinction between the "endtimes" and "the last day."
Jesus referred to both. Daniel also referred to the "last days," as such,
but they were in reference to the last days of a particuar kingdom. When
Jesus spoke in his Olivet Discourse of the final days of Jerusalem, he was
indeed speaking of the "end times," as such, but only in reference to the
last days of Jerusalem, and the last days of Israel's covenant of Law.
Jesus, by contrast, spoke of the "last day" in connection with his coming as
Messiah. He was to bring to a close all of the trials and tribulations of
Israel, to restore them as God's people, along with all of the Gentile
nations who had become God's people. The "last day" thus signals an end to
Gentile persecution of the Jewish people, and an end to Israel's shame as a
nation in this present age.
randy
Ike E 1/2/2010
"Pastor Dave" <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6lg2k5tpd0sikua4g...@4ax.com...
>
> PRE-CHRISTIAN PRETERISM
LOL
You're SUCH an idiot.
Prophecy fulfilled to the prophets was the IMMEDIATE sequence of events that
started contemporary to the prophets.
And these initial fulfillments had NOTHING to do with Jesus (except to
foreshadow Him, either in His first or second advents).
Isaiah's prophecy of Maher-Shalal-Hasbaz and Emmanuel?
Two kids in Isaiah's day who marked the time to the disbursement of the ten
tribes.
Daniel's prophecies?
The events between the destruction of the temple and the end of the
Maccabean Revolt.
David's prophecies of the suffering servant?
HIMSELF at the hands of his enemies.
NOTHING in the Old Testament is about Jesus FIRST, only Jesus SECOND, when
the prophecies are REITERATED and REINTERPRETED in A NEW CONTEXT.
And it's EXACTLY THE SAME with NEW TESTAMENT PROPHECIES, TOO, you idiot.
THAT'S why Jesus used His DUALISTIC DICHOTOMIES when GIVING PROPHECIES
(which you continue to ignore because you don't give a DAMN about
truth--only stroking your own weak ego).
Ike
@tampabay.rr.com Pastor Dave
spake thusly:
>"Pastor Dave"
>
>> PRE-CHRISTIAN PRETERISM
>> Expectation of a "Romano-Judaic Eschaton" in First Century
>> BC/AD Judaism as Revealed in the Dead Sea Scrolls.
>> "And we recognize that some of the blessings and curses
>> have come, (24) those written in the Book of Moses;
>> therefore this is the End of Days" (4Q397 - 399)
>
>Belief that Jesus' Olivet Discourse equated the fall of Jerusalem
is correct and your dancing means nothing to me.
--
Pastor Dave
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sig file and not part of the message body.
"Fortune favors the bold." - Virgil - The Aeneid