Jesus Was A Liar, saith the Dispensationalists/Futurists!!!
Pastor Dave
Jesus Was A Liar! He had to be, because the Futurists here
claim that there is no way that they can be wrong!
Let me show you the problem and the choice. Either He did
return, or the Futurists are right, which means that He was
a liar and no Lord and no Messiah, *AT ALL* and *THE BIBLE*
backs that statement up, clearly and more than sufficiently!
But before we start, just one question for you to ponder:
Why do the Futurists call it Jesus' "Second Coming", when
they believe it will be His fourth coming (Earthly, Rapture,
1,000 year reign, Judgment)???
Anyway, on with the post. :)
Did Jesus lie? Was Jesus Wrong? Did Jesus fail?,
by Ken Davies
Jesus Christ made certain statements to His disciples about
his Second Coming, the great tribulation, judgment day
and the gathering together of his people. In fact, He said
all those things would happen within the generation living
over 1900 years ago (Matt: 24:32-34).
He told his disciples that some of them would live to see
it happen and that they would not finish going through
the cities of Israel before he had come (Matt: 16:27-28,
Matt: 10:16-23).
Jesus told the religious leaders of his day that their
treatment of his apostles was one of the main reasons
He was returning. He was coming back to judge them
for their conduct and destroy Jerusalem and the temple
(Matt: 23:29-36; Luke 11:47-51).
Jesus also told the disciples to "watch and pray" because
the time was "at hand", that He would "come quickly",
and that they should escape Jerusalem when they saw
these things beginning to occur, which they eventually
did (Luke: 21:5-36).
So... Did Jesus lie? Was Jesus Wrong? Did Jesus fail?
Sadly, many people calling themselves Christians today
believe that Jesus was mistaken or was being outright
deceptive when he made such urgent statements. They
believe and teach that none of the things he predicted,
including his Second Coming, actually happened when
they were supposed to (when Jesus himself said they
would). Others attempt to make the vital words Jesus
spoke, mean something other than what they are plainly
saying.
But let us instead, be dedicated to a scholarly treatment of
Bible prophecy and the belief that Jesus was not mistaken.
This view is known as the Preterist view of Scripture.
I will not appeal to any other source other than the Bible
itself, the very Word of God. I will not give you my
"interpretations" or opinions.
I encourage you to openly challenge me on every detail.
I encourage dialogue and scholarly debate, not attacks
because you didn't like what you read.
I make the following statement in the most serious
way possible:
"The belief that Jesus is coming in the future is NOT
supported by the Bible and those who believe it believe
a lie!"
I openly welcome attempts to prove the above statement
false. I always do it in as public a forum as possible
(i.e. public, interactive radio, email dialogue, public
debate, etc.). I hide nothing. I only insist that all
attempts to prove the above statement false be done
using solely the Bible for support. God's word alone
will be the final court of arbitration. I will not accept
any pastor or church creed that goes against God's
Inspired and Holy Word.
And letting the Bible speak for itself, does not mean
pasting in passages and assuming that whatever your
thinking is also written in that passage and that no one
could ever possibly think anything other than you do!
Your idea may be that your understanding is what it says,
but unless it says the same words you're thinking, it just
doesn't say it, period, no argument, it's what the Bible
says, not what you claim it says, but can't show it says!
Nor do *YOUR INTERPRETATIONS* automatically
equal truth!
In the end, you will be left with a very simple choice,
either to accept what the Bible *ACTUALLY SAYS*,
or to believe that Jesus will come in the future, a belief
that actually makes Jesus out to be a liar, a fraud,
and a failure. Remember, if Jesus was either mistaken
or deceptive when He made those urgent and concrete
statements about his "soon", "at-hand" and "quick"
coming, He cannot be who He claimed to be.
Wouldn't you like to finally know for sure what the Bible
actually says??? Wouldn't you like to finally have answers
that are powerfully simple and backed up completely from
the Bible? Wouldn't you like to be able to share the Gospel
and be confident answering the "difficult" questions? Dear
friend, we thank God the Jesus didn't lie, He wasn't wrong,
and He didn't fail! His coming occurred at the exact time,
and in the exact manner that He predicted!!!
Click here http://tinyurl.com/ypzdqz now and get started
on your journey to really getting a tight grasp on what
the Bible actually says about prophetic events. I promise
that you won't be able to refute what you learn and that
is very good news for anyone who wants to be able to
say they truly have the truth! May God bless your study!
Ken Davies
And as for me, Pastor Dave, I issue the same challenge!
But attempts to duck and later claim I work for Satan,
when I point out that you claiming I work for Satan is
not a response, is not a response.
You do what you want, but it makes me laugh when you
people whine about me and yet, are the ones who refused
to deal with the points head on.
And I know that Futurists hate what the Bible says and think
that literal interpretation of the "super sci-fi" statements
and then claiming that the clear and simple statements
means that they're true scholars and even when shown
the same statements in fulfilled prophecies, claim that just
because it was symbolic then, doesn't mean that Jesus was
being symbolic equates to scholarly work, but unfortunately
for Futurists, God did not completely change the way that
He dealt with His people, which were the Jews (with some
Gentiles being added) at the time the OT and NT was written
and not you today. And the Bible was not written in a time
vacuum, in which the clock stopped, just waiting for you to
open a Bible so it could start again.
So if you want to discuss what the Bible actually says,
then let's do so. But let's do so based on what it
actually says and not what you have been trained to
filter it through. Let's pretend that you never read it
before. You know, like that time you asked about
Mat 24:34 and said to the people there; "But look
here! Jesus said He was coming back in the same
generation!". You see, that does not include you
being told, "Oh, well what Jesus REALLY MEANT
was the generation that sees the signs, is the generation
that He would return to".
That is adding words to the Bible and it makes Jesus
a blathering idiot! Why? Simple! Because it means
that Jesus was REALLY SAYING that; "The generation
that sees the signs, will be the generation that sees
the signs",
WELL, DUUUHHH!!! Gee, Jesus Lord guy... YA THINK?!?
So let's not make Jesus into an idiot, just so we can
be right, okay? :)
Let's have a real discussion, not a fake one based on your,
"It's all about me now!" glasses on and see where we
end up, okay? :)
--
Pastor Dave
The following is part of my auto-rotating
sig file and not part of the message body.
Satan subtracts and divides. God adds and multiplies.
Ike E 1/2/2010
[snippeth]
Ike
randy
"Pastor Dave"
> Why do the Futurists call it Jesus' "Second Coming", when
> they believe it will be His fourth coming (Earthly, Rapture,
> 1,000 year reign, Judgment)???
Futurists refer to the 2nd coming because the Scriptures say he is coming a
2nd time to bring an end to the suffering of his people. He came the first
time to establish the hope of eternal life for his people, so that by faith
they will pursue righteousness. That is, they will pursue righteousness in
the face of suffering, knowing that they will receive an eternal reward.
> Did Jesus lie? Was Jesus Wrong? Did Jesus fail?,
> by Ken Davies
> Jesus Christ made certain statements to His disciples about
> his Second Coming, the great tribulation, judgment day
> and the gathering together of his people. In fact, He said
> all those things would happen within the generation living
> over 1900 years ago (Matt: 24:32-34).
Again, as I've told you repeatedly, Jesus exempted the promise of his return
from the prophecies of the Olivet Discourse, which concerned only the fall
of Jerusalem. That is, Jesus said in his Olivet Discourse specifically "all
the things" that would happen to Israel, and had no reference whatsoever to
the *time* of his return from heaven, his glorious appearance as Messiah
over Israel.
> He told his disciples that some of them would live to see
> it happen and that they would not finish going through
> the cities of Israel before he had come (Matt: 16:27-28,
> Matt: 10:16-23).
The disciples did indeed see Christ establish the basis of his eternal
Kingdom, notwithstanding the fact they would also see Israel fall. What
Jesus' disciples saw was the resurrection of Jesus, and his promise of life
to all who follow him. This was indeed the establishment of an eternal
kingdom in the form of *hope* to begin with. The coming of this actual
Kingdom to earth, and our resurrection to immortality itself, will not take
place until the end of this present age. It will take place with the return
of Jesus from heaven.
randy
bear
wrote:
Hey Randy, you do not really expect Dave to succumb to logic and
reason, do you? He could never admit to being wrong even if Jesus
Himself told him so, come to think of it, Jesus has told him, in His
word. There you go.
Bear
Ike E 1/2/2010
"bear" <tevan...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:t194k551r9djvubq4...@4ax.com...
[snip]
> Hey Randy, you do not really expect Dave to succumb to logic and
> reason, do you? He could never admit to being wrong even if Jesus
> Himself told him so, come to think of it, Jesus has told him, in His
> word. There you go.
This is hilarious: The Dipsysensationalist idiot (who doesn't know "was" and
"is" from "will be") is speaking to the Historist idiot (who doesn't know
"will be" from "was" and "is") about a Preterist idiot's "logic" (when he
doesn't know "was" and "will be" from "is"), and none of them has a clue as
to what they're talking about.
Meanwhile, back on the ranch...
"That which has been is now, and that which is to be has already become, and
God requires that which is past." [Ecc 3:15]
"Was" to "is," "is to "will be," and "will be" to what always "was."
Let me know when any of the three of you gets a clue.
Ike
bear
<xhermanei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>"bear" <tevan...@charter.net> wrote in message
>news:t194k551r9djvubq4...@4ax.com...
>
>[snip]
>
>> Hey Randy, you do not really expect Dave to succumb to logic and
>> reason, do you? He could never admit to being wrong even if Jesus
>> Himself told him so, come to think of it, Jesus has told him, in His
>> word. There you go.
>
>This is hilarious:
Ike thinks he is the smartest man who ever was, is now the smartest
man and will always be the smartest man, and he proves it with his
dogmatic assertions and analysis of the poles as demonstrated by his
quotes below.
[So, the INTERNAL DATA is STARTING TO LOOK LIKE IT DID BACK IN
SEPTEMBER, AND SHIFTING TO THE RIGHT AGAIN.]
or this one...
[Try looking at the INTERNAL data sometime--your "poll of polls" is
OVERINFLATED PUSH-POLLING CRAP.]
Now this is really indicative of Ike's version of the "truth".
[It's shaping up to be another GOP map.]
or this, has about the same value as his scripture commentary...
[Hey, idiot: HOW COME THE INTERNALS AREN'T MOVING BEYOND NORMAL
STATISTICAL ANOMALIES OF A POINT UP OR DOWN AS THE BATTLELINES
SOLIDIFY?]
right on mark again...
[WORSE, they subject to manipulation BY THE POLLSTERS THEMSELVES,
deliberately AND accidentally.]
[You MIGHT want to start paying attention TO THE BASIC POLLING,
Because IT MAY BE SAYING MORE THAN THE "PROFESSIONALS" DO.]
same dogmatic assertion as he makes with scripture, and just as wrong.
[And even THAT data is showing A MONUMENTAL SHIFT from OBAMA to
MCCAIN.]
yep, Ike has it all figured out...
[VoteFromAbroad.org IS ALREADY SHOWING MCCAIN TAKING THE LEAD, 270 to
268, with MORE SHIFTS TO COME from Washington, Michigan, and
Pennsylvania.]
how did everyone in the country miss this but Ike?
[EVEN NEW YORK STATE IS SHOWING A SHIFT TO THE GOP TICKET (and don't
be surprised if Giuliani Dems and the HUGE number of housewives in
up-state DON'T PUSH THE GOP WAY OVER THE TOP).]
[The rest of the electoral maps WILL SHORTLY FOLLOW SUIT.]
nothing wishy-washy about Ike's observations.
[By this time next week, the electoral college WILL SHOW THE SAME
REVERSAL AS IN THE GENERAL POLLING NUMBERS, with McCain have a HUGE
ADVANTAGE over Obama.]
same dogmatic, know it all tone as he has with scripture and the same
accuracy.
[This race is over--it ended last week.]
[Just like I told you last week concerning the general polling numbers
(and was right): WAIT FOR IT--it'll be along shortly.]
Ike provides a great demonstration of his analytical and interpreting
skills. He did come closer with the polls however than he does with
scripture.
Bear
>
>Ike
>
randy
"bear"
randy
> Hey Randy, you do not really expect Dave to succumb to logic and
> reason, do you? He could never admit to being wrong even if Jesus
> Himself told him so, come to think of it, Jesus has told him, in His
> word. There you go.
I don't know. I'm very skeptical because he hasn't shown any inclination
towards humility in the sense of admitting the possibility of being wrong
here. He has however accepted Christian truth that calls for personal
humility. I'm very concerned over his tendency to want to turn every
discussion, every debate, into an emotional issue, an occasion for
name-calling, prejudging, etc. This kind of emotional reaction serves to
stunt our spiritual development, because it shuts off a proper exchange
between ourselves and God, and between one another.
randy
bear
wrote:
There is an explanation for Dave, ego and pride. The very same thing
that got a character in the Bible into a lot of trouble.
Bear
randy
"bear"
randy
> There is an explanation for Dave, ego and pride. The very same thing
> that got a character in the Bible into a lot of trouble.
Yes, that is our common enemy. We all have to be on guard against that, and
to try not to stir it up in one another. Thanks for calling our attention to
"public enemy number one"--moi! :)
randy
Ike E 1/2/2010
"randy" <rkl...@wavecable.com> wrote in message
news:qv-dnfDi1Le8lN_W...@wavecable.com...
[snip]
> Again, as I've told you repeatedly, Jesus exempted the promise of his
> return from the prophecies of the Olivet Discourse...
Cite ('cause it's an outright lie).
Ike
Ike E 1/2/2010
> On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 07:25:58 -0600, "Ike E 1/2/2010"
> <xhermanei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"bear" <tevan...@charter.net> wrote in message
>>news:t194k551r9djvubq4...@4ax.com...
>>
>>[snip]
>>
>>> Hey Randy, you do not really expect Dave to succumb to logic and
>>> reason, do you? He could never admit to being wrong even if Jesus
>>> Himself told him so, come to think of it, Jesus has told him, in His
>>> word. There you go.
>>
>>This is hilarious:
>
> Ike thinks he is the smartest man who ever was
It doesn't take being the smartest man alive to realize that
Dispensationalism, Preterism, Idealism, and even Historicism are completely
failed schools of eschatology, fool.
Ike
Ike E 1/2/2010
>
> "bear"
> randy
>> Hey Randy, you do not really expect Dave to succumb to logic and
>> reason, do you? He could never admit to being wrong even if Jesus
>> Himself told him so, come to think of it, Jesus has told him, in His
>> word. There you go.
>
> I don't know. I'm very skeptical because he hasn't shown any inclination
> towards humility in the sense of admitting the possibility of being wrong
> here.
Hmmmm.
Just like you...
Ike
Ike E 1/2/2010
LOL
Which is ALSO the same explanation for YOUR asinine position, as well as
randy's. All three of you morons, arguing from different sides of the same
table, don't have a CLUE as to how prophecy works (and yet the fools prattle
on).
Ike
bear
<xhermanei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>"bear" <tevan...@charter.net> wrote in message
>news:8fi6k5971bc5031lb...@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 07:25:58 -0600, "Ike E 1/2/2010"
>> <xhermanei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"bear" <tevan...@charter.net> wrote in message
>>>news:t194k551r9djvubq4...@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>[snip]
>>>
>>>> Hey Randy, you do not really expect Dave to succumb to logic and
>>>> reason, do you? He could never admit to being wrong even if Jesus
>>>> Himself told him so, come to think of it, Jesus has told him, in His
>>>> word. There you go.
>>>
>>>This is hilarious:
>>
>> Ike thinks he is the smartest man who ever was
>
>It doesn't take being the smartest man alive to
To make such a fool of himself, like the one quoted below.
Ike thinks he is the smartest man who ever was, is now the smartest
man and will always be the smartest man, and he proves it with his
dogmatic assertions and analysis of the poles.
bear
<xhermanei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>"bear" <tevan...@charter.net> wrote in message
>news:7un6k5hee189t3n96...@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 07:35:39 -0800, "randy" <rkl...@wavecable.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"bear"
>>>randy
>>>> Hey Randy, you do not really expect Dave to succumb to logic and
>>>> reason, do you? He could never admit to being wrong even if Jesus
>>>> Himself told him so, come to think of it, Jesus has told him, in His
>>>> word. There you go.
>>>
>>>I don't know. I'm very skeptical because he hasn't shown any inclination
>>>towards humility in the sense of admitting the possibility of being wrong
>>>here. He has however accepted Christian truth that calls for personal
>>>humility. I'm very concerned over his tendency to want to turn every
>>>discussion, every debate, into an emotional issue, an occasion for
>>>name-calling, prejudging, etc. This kind of emotional reaction serves to
>>>stunt our spiritual development, because it shuts off a proper exchange
>>>between ourselves and God, and between one another.
>>>randy
>>
>> There is an explanation for Dave, ego and pride.
>
>LOL
>
>Which is ALSO the same explanation for
Ike's thinking he is the smartest man who ever was, is now the
smartest man and will always be the smartest man, and he proves it
with his dogmatic assertions and analysis that he did with the poles.
Ike E 1/2/2010
Ike thinks he is the smartest man who ever was, and I agree with him.
Bear.
Ike E 1/2/2010
Ike is the smartest man who ever was.
Bear.
bear
<xhermanei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>"bear" <tevan...@charter.net> wrote in message
>news:f4l7k51lvjq9a42dd...@4ax.com...
>
>Ike thinks he is the smartest man who ever was,
is now the smartest man and will always be the smartest man, and he
proves it with his dogmatic assertions and analysis that he did with
the poles.
or this one...
right on mark again...
Bear
>Bear.
>
Ike E 1/2/2010
Ike is now the smartest man and will always be the smartest man.
Bear.
bear
Poor little Ike, it seems that he is so starved for praise and
adulation that he is reduced to self accolades and then signing my
name to it, bless his little heart.
Ike thinks he is the smartest man who ever was, is now the smartest
man and will always be the smartest man, and he proves it with his
dogmatic assertions and analysis of the election poles.
Ike E 1/2/2010
Ike is the smartest man who ever was.
Bear
(Written in the manner Bear reads the Bible.)
bear
<xhermanei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>"bear" <tevan...@charter.net> wrote in message
>news:2t09k511hqop5a28v...@4ax.com...
>
>Ike is the smartest man who ever was.
>
>Bear
>
@tampabay.rr.com Pastor Dave
>"Pastor Dave"
>
>> Why do the Futurists call it Jesus' "Second Coming", when
>> they believe it will be His fourth coming (Earthly, Rapture,
>> 1,000 year reign, Judgment)???
>
>Futurists refer to the 2nd coming because the Scriptures say
Futurists refer to the second coming as the judgment
and yet, believe in a coming before that. Two in fact,
which makes the judgment the fourth coming. I Guess
like the rest of them, you can't count.
--
Pastor Dave
The following is part of my auto-rotating
sig file and not part of the message body.
"There are two kinds of men who never amount to much:
those who cannot do what they are told and those who
can do nothing else." - Cyrus H. Curtis