hop pellets
Christopher Bedwell
i am using a kit - and it a dark ale.. i forgot when - the guy at the home
brew shop told me.
- Chris.
Mike Uchima
If the malt extract is pre-hopped, I would say you probably want to add
them near the end of the boil. If it is unhopped extract, you should
probably split the hops -- some early on, and some towards the end.
Hops added early in the boil contribute mainly bitterness. Hops added
later on contribute less bitterness, but give you some hop flavor and
aroma.
--
== Mike Uchima == uch...@pobox.com == http://www.pobox.com/~uchima ==
Christopher Bedwell
add them to the hot wort and leave for 15 mins ?
- Chris.
Robin Powlus <pow...@ptd.net.NOSPAMPLEASE> wrote in message
news:K_Dz6.5191$qs.8...@nnrp1.ptd.net...
> Hops boiled for 60-90 minutes will add bitterness.
> Hops boiled for 15-30 minutes will add flavor.
> Hops boiled for 0-5 minutes will add aroma.
>
> Robin
> The Poconos
>
> "Christopher Bedwell" <t...@southwest.com.au> wrote in message
> news:98662376...@karri.southwest.com.au...
Zamuel
> i am not boiling - its just a kit that i add hot water too... should i just
> add them to the hot wort and leave for 15 mins ?
Sounds like a pretty bogus kit...Has it got you adding a bunch
of SUGAR too...?
You should boil it, for around an hour and skim the residue that
collects on top off...If the extract already has hops added, then
add your hops about 5 min before the boiling is finished. If the
extract has no in it, add half of yours for the entire length of the
boil, and the second half for the last 5 min.
DON'T add sugar to it. Go back to the shop and get a similar
weight of Dried Malt Extract instead.
Good Luck.
]]]Z[[[
Christopher Bedwell
> Christopher Bedwell wrote:
>
> > i am not boiling - its just a kit that i add hot water too... should i
just
> > add them to the hot wort and leave for 15 mins ?
>
> Sounds like a pretty bogus kit...Has it got you adding a bunch
> of SUGAR too...?
No, i asked the guy at the home brew shop how can i get it more hoppy - with
a little more OOMPH ! - and he gave me a packet of hop pellets, told me to
use half the packet and then freeze the rest.. its a dark ale..
( too late now anyhow - i made it and didnt bother with the hop pellets -
instead i added 1kg - 2.2lb of dark chocolate malt to the mix - and it
SMELLS YUMMY ! )
> You should boil it, for around an hour and skim the residue that
> collects on top off...If the extract already has hops added, then
> add your hops about 5 min before the boiling is finished. If the
> extract has no in it, add half of yours for the entire length of the
> boil, and the second half for the last 5 min.
I will remember that - but on the can it says not to boil it - it says that
boiling will adversely affect the taste of the malt - and this was done in
the factory.. so i didnt bother..
> DON'T add sugar to it. Go back to the shop and get a similar
> weight of Dried Malt Extract instead.
Never use sugar - i always use dextrose, but now i decided to use dark
malt - smells delicious - and i also added 1L of honey to it - and it was
absolutely amasing the smell - the yeast went SPASTIC in about 10
minutes.... and it started growing..
How does dried malt differ compared to liquid ?
> Good Luck.
Thanks - i am gonna need it in the morning when my missus finds i put the
fermentor in the loungeroom near the heater - ( its freezing here atm !! )
dont worry - the heater is off - but the room is beaut !
> ]]]Z[[[
- Chris.
Mike Uchima
skimmed, most of the residue will settle out anyway (hot break).
--
== Mike Uchima == uch...@pobox.com == http://www.pobox.com/~uchima ==
Mike Uchima
>
> no no non noononononooo
>
> > Christopher Bedwell wrote:
> >
> > > i am not boiling - its just a kit that i add hot water too... should i just
> > > add them to the hot wort and leave for 15 mins ?
> >
> > Sounds like a pretty bogus kit...Has it got you adding a bunch
> > of SUGAR too...?
>
> No, i asked the guy at the home brew shop how can i get it more hoppy - with
> a little more OOMPH ! - and he gave me a packet of hop pellets, told me to
> use half the packet and then freeze the rest.. its a dark ale..
Just steeping them in hot wort is going to give you mainly hop aroma.
If you want hop flavor, they need to be boiled for a few minutes... for
hop bitterness, they need to be boiled longer (30+ minutes).
> ( too late now anyhow - i made it and didnt bother with the hop pellets -
> instead i added 1kg - 2.2lb of dark chocolate malt to the mix - and it
> SMELLS YUMMY ! )
>
> > You should boil it, for around an hour and skim the residue that
> > collects on top off...If the extract already has hops added, then
> > add your hops about 5 min before the boiling is finished. If the
> > extract has no in it, add half of yours for the entire length of the
> > boil, and the second half for the last 5 min.
>
> I will remember that - but on the can it says not to boil it - it says that
> boiling will adversely affect the taste of the malt - and this was done in
> the factory.. so i didnt bother..
Yeah, if the extract was made with finishing hops, boiling for an hour
will drive off the hop aroma and flavor. This is one of the reasons
that many extract brewers prefer to use unhopped extract, and add their
own hops.
> > DON'T add sugar to it. Go back to the shop and get a similar
> > weight of Dried Malt Extract instead.
>
> Never use sugar - i always use dextrose,
Dextrose is a form of sugar. In general, use of large quantities of
*any* form of refined sugar is a bad idea, unless you're trying to brew
a style that traditionally is brewed with sugar (e.g. Strong Belgian
ales).
> but now i decided to use dark
> malt - smells delicious -
Great!
> and i also added 1L of honey to it
If it was "raw" honey, it ought to be heated to ~160F (or above) for a
while, to pasteurize it. The filtered/pasteurized stuff from the
grocery store probably doesn't need the heat treatment (but will
contribute less honey character).
> - and it was
> absolutely amasing the smell - the yeast went SPASTIC in about 10
> minutes.... and it started growing..
> How does dried malt differ compared to liquid ?
Dried malt has had all of the water removed, as opposed to liquid malt
which is still about 20% water. Dried malt extract contributes
approximately 45 gravity points per lb per gallon of wort, compared to
around 35 for liquid malt extract.
> > Good Luck.
>
> Thanks - i am gonna need it in the morning when my missus finds i put the
> fermentor in the loungeroom near the heater - ( its freezing here atm !! )
>
> dont worry - the heater is off - but the room is beaut !
>
> > ]]]Z[[[
>
> - Chris.
--
bregent
>
>no no non noononononooo
>
>> Christopher Bedwell wrote:
>>
>> > i am not boiling - its just a kit that i add hot water too... should i
>just
>> > add them to the hot wort and leave for 15 mins ?
>>
>> Sounds like a pretty bogus kit...Has it got you adding a bunch
>> of SUGAR too...?
>
>No, i asked the guy at the home brew shop how can i get it more hoppy - with
>a little more OOMPH ! - and he gave me a packet of hop pellets, told me to
>use half the packet and then freeze the rest.. its a dark ale..
>( too late now anyhow - i made it and didnt bother with the hop pellets -
>instead i added 1kg - 2.2lb of dark chocolate malt to the mix - and it
>SMELLS YUMMY ! )
Dark chocolate malt? Are you referring to the roasted grain, or is this some
kind of extract? When did you add it? If it's cracked grains you're referring
to, 1kg seems like an awful lot for 5 gallons.
Zamuel
> no no non noononononooo
Zamuel wrote:
> > You should boil it, for around an hour and skim the residue that
> > collects on top off...If the extract already has hops added, then
> > add your hops about 5 min before the boiling is finished. If the
> > extract has no in it, add half of yours for the entire length of the
> > boil, and the second half for the last 5 min.
>
> I will remember that - but on the can it says not to boil it - it says that
> boiling will adversely affect the taste of the malt - and this was done in
> the factory.. so i didnt bother..
??? News to me...
In the "distant" past, there were some "Beer Machine" type
kits of the "Just add water" variety...Aimed at the "suckers
who don't know any better" market... I had thought they
died out long ago. Perhaps they've returned from the grave?
> > DON'T add sugar to it. Go back to the shop and get a similar
> > weight of Dried Malt Extract instead.
>
> Never use sugar - i always use dextrose, but now i decided to use dark
> malt - smells delicious - and i also added 1L of honey to it - and it was
> absolutely amasing the smell - the yeast went SPASTIC in about 10
> minutes.... and it started growing..
That's what it's supposed to do.
> How does dried malt differ compared to liquid ?
Well...it's not wet...(g)...
It's a powder, and it's more concentrated.
I think you might like to take a look at a good book on
home brewing...I don't know how good the brew your
making will be, but you are likely to have some problems
with infections and funny tastes using the technique
you've described.
_The New Complete Joy Of Homebrewing_ by Charlie
Papazian is a great place to start, and Your librarian
can find you many others on the subject.
There are also a multitude of "how to" resources on the WWW...
Just do a search on Homebrewing.
]]]Z[[[
Mike Uchima
extract) in the malt extract; boiling will drive off the hop
flavor/aroma. I don't think they ever really "died out"... in fact,
from what I've heard, some of them may have actually improved a bit in
recent years.
But in general, you are much better off using unhopped extract, boiling
for the full 60 minutes, and adding your own hops...
--
== Mike Uchima == uch...@pobox.com == http://www.pobox.com/~uchima ==
Christopher Bedwell
some
> kind of extract? When did you add it? If it's cracked grains you're
referring
> to, 1kg seems like an awful lot for 5 gallons.
Its a malt where the color indicates how long it has been roasted - its not
black - but its not light.. more of a dark chocolate color.
um, i dont know how much 5 gallons is - it raises the brew from 3.5% alcohol
to 5% - then theres the honey - that should make it a nice 6 - 7%
- Chris.
Yerry Felix
> Christopher Bedwell wrote:
>
> > no no non noononononooo
>
aha :) eh?
> Zamuel wrote:
>
> > > You should boil it, for around an hour and skim the residue that
> > > collects on top off...If the extract already has hops added, then
> > > add your hops about 5 min before the boiling is finished. If the
> > > extract has no in it, add half of yours for the entire length of the
> > > boil, and the second half for the last 5 min.
> >
> > I will remember that - but on the can it says not to boil it - it says that
> > boiling will adversely affect the taste of the malt - and this was done in
> > the factory.. so i didnt bother..
>
> ??? News to me...
> In the "distant" past, there were some "Beer Machine" type
> kits of the "Just add water" variety...Aimed at the "suckers
> who don't know any better" market... I had thought they
> died out long ago. Perhaps they've returned from the grave?
There is one Munton 3.8kg kit range which is reportedly very good and
you really just add water. I had couple of them when I started to
brew and naturally I managed to mess up both of them! (self inflicted,
I mean if you ferment at 30C there is nothing the manufacutrer *can*
do... oops :)
However, they are of very high quality and everyone I know who made
(properly!) with them had some very lovely beer -- in fact it was a a
bottle of the Smugglers (from this very range) which convinced me that
home brew is superior and got me hooked on brewing!
So, do not dismissed kit beer out of hand! However, the rule is that
you get what you pay for...
1i
--
Hexenbrau /||x~x~<
0==============|x||~x~x<
London UK \||x~x~<
Andrew Hamm
>
>??? News to me...
>In the "distant" past, there were some "Beer Machine" type
>kits of the "Just add water" variety...Aimed at the "suckers
>who don't know any better" market... I had thought they
>died out long ago. Perhaps they've returned from the grave?
>
here;-) does a _good_ extract, and does all the proper boiling and hopping
procedures for their kit, then their boiling ritual will do the job of
settling out the proteins and general scum and whatever else is required.
That's why I can't understand some people suggesting the need to boil the
kits. It would surely wreck the hopping, and do bugger-all if the factory
has already done the necessary boil.
There are a lot of kit makers these days, competition is fierce and variety
is large. Maybe kits of old were crap, but surely competition will and has
improved the product. One of the manufacturers brochures is bragging about
how they grow their own special grains, hops etc, do all the proper malting
and mashing procedures, boils, hopping etc. Homebrewing is a growing market,
and it becomes quite profitable for manufacturers to produce quality kits
that keep people going back for more. With so much variety out there, crap
kits will rapidly lose market share. The days of supermarkets supplying 3
different kits only are long-gone in this country. In my area alone there
are 3 homebrew shops all within a 15 minute drive of home. Each one has
maybe 100 different tins from several manufacturers lined up on the wall.
They also have racks of grains, malts etc for the more advanced brewers.
I'm not disputing that complete DYI from grain and yeast cultivations may be
better, but I've definitely produced some really tasty brews already, and
I've only been going for 3 months now. These simple but tasty kits must have
started a lot of people. There's no way I would have started if I thought I
had to piss around with grains etc. I'll be starting that soon, but in a
modest way and that's only a progression and because I'm happy with the kit
results.
Maybe ignorance is bliss, but bliss is still bliss. Even Papazian writes
that he's done some lovely brews from supermarket tins.
Zamuel
> >??? News to me...
> >In the "distant" past, there were some "Beer Machine" type
> >kits of the "Just add water" variety...Aimed at the "suckers
> >who don't know any better" market... I had thought they
> >died out long ago. Perhaps they've returned from the grave?
Andrew Hamm wrote:
> Surely if some manufacturer (and ok, MAYBE I'm speaking hypothetically
> here;-) does a _good_ extract, and does all the proper boiling and hopping
> procedures for their kit, then their boiling ritual will do the job of
> settling out the proteins and general scum and whatever else is required.
This is certainly possible...However, any responsible Mfg is going
to be aware of the sanitation issues raised by recomending their
kits NOT be boiled...They have NO control whatsoever of the
microbiology of the water added or the cleanliness of the utensils
used by the brewer...Recommending that wort NOT be boiled is
an open invitation to infection...and not what I expect (or observe)
from responsible Kit mfgs.
> That's why I can't understand some people suggesting the need to boil the
> kits. It would surely wreck the hopping, and do bugger-all if the factory has
> already done the necessary boil.
Bittering can be done and cannned...I don't believe *quality*
flavoring and aromatic hopping can be canned and preserved.
> There are a lot of kit makers these days, competition is fierce and variety
> is large. Maybe kits of old were crap,
There have always been "good" kits...But they tell you to BOIL the
wort...(g).
> Homebrewing is a growing market,
Not so sure about that...It looks to me like things have peaked.
> and it becomes quite profitable for manufacturers to produce quality kits
> that keep people going back for more.
The Large Scale Kit Mfgs are the extract producers...It's EASY
for them to make small additions to their BULK extracts and can
"specialty" malts. Add a packet of dried yeast and a small instruction
slip, and -voila- you have a Kit...Which is then marketed for 3 or 4
times it's actual value.
Sales volumn on these kits isn't all that high though, they are more
of an introductory product...Most repeat buyers soon switch to buying
bulk extracts or "shop built" kits that also use the bulks.
> With so much variety out there, crap kits will rapidly lose market share.
Unfortunately, No...Because their buyers are mostly newbies who don't
know better...as this thread illustrates.
> These simple but tasty kits must have started a lot of people. There's no way
> I would have started if I thought Ihad to piss around with grains etc.
Exactly
> Even Papazian writes that he's done some lovely brews from supermarket tins.
Sure...But I'll bet he boiled them...
(g)
]]]Z[[[
Vanessa Moore
Zamuel <Zam...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:3AD1F563...@worldnet.att.net...
> > Zamuel wrote
> > >??? News to me...
> > >In the "distant" past, there were some "Beer Machine" type
> > >kits of the "Just add water" variety...Aimed at the "suckers
> > >who don't know any better" market... I had thought they
> > >died out long ago. Perhaps they've returned from the grave?
Beer Machine type kits -were- bad. But we're not suckers now because we use
kits.
> Andrew Hamm wrote:
[snip]
> This is certainly possible...However, any responsible Mfg is going
> to be aware of the sanitation issues raised by recomending their
> kits NOT be boiled...They have NO control whatsoever of the
> microbiology of the water added or the cleanliness of the utensils
> used by the brewer...Recommending that wort NOT be boiled is
> an open invitation to infection...and not what I expect (or observe)
> from responsible Kit mfgs.
I have never had a kit go off because while I am a kit brewer, I am still
careful.
[snip]
> Bittering can be done and cannned...I don't believe *quality*
> flavoring and aromatic hopping can be canned and preserved.
<shrug> Its a matter of personal taste. Flavour, texture and aroma of my
beers are still superior to those I can buy in the pub. Not least of all
because -I- made it. :)
[snip]
> > Homebrewing is a growing market,
>
> Not so sure about that...It looks to me like things have peaked.
I'm thinking perhaps you aren't an Australian. Brewkit ownership has grown
enormously in the past 8 months because of rising costs. Our government
have slapped heavy taxes on beer, hence the rising interest in homebrews.
> > and it becomes quite profitable for manufacturers to produce quality
kits
> > that keep people going back for more.
>
> The Large Scale Kit Mfgs are the extract producers...It's EASY
> for them to make small additions to their BULK extracts and can
> "specialty" malts. Add a packet of dried yeast and a small instruction
> slip, and -voila- you have a Kit...Which is then marketed for 3 or 4
> times it's actual value.
Yet its still cheaper for me to brew a specialty kit for $30.00 and than
spend over $90.00 buying decent imported beers. Not that I stick with just
what's in the cans. Adding hops flavour is something many kit brewers do.
Your American garden variety beers cost approximately A$3.00 each here (at
least in South Australia). UK beers are even more expensive to buy.
> Sales volumn on these kits isn't all that high though, they are more
> of an introductory product...Most repeat buyers soon switch to buying
> bulk extracts or "shop built" kits that also use the bulks.
Perhaps some do. No one I know does though. We just brew our little kits
and share beers around.
> > With so much variety out there, crap kits will rapidly lose market
share.
>
> Unfortunately, No...Because their buyers are mostly newbies who don't
> know better...as this thread illustrates.
I'm not a newbie. I don't have the brewing experience of some people around
here, but I'm fairly competent. I don't mash for several reasons: I don't
have time, I don't have the energy, I don't require such exacting measures
(if it tastes good, drink it). This doesn't mean that I will never do a
mash. I'm considering the -possibility- right now, however this doesn't
mean I'm changing my modus operandi permanently. :)
I think the point to homebrewing (at least for many people in Australia) is
its cheap, fun and not too hard. I don't know how things stand in the US or
UK but this is the way it is here. To assume that we are cluless is a bit
offensive. We just do things differently to you guys. It doesn't make us
right and you wrong. Just different. :)
Cheers
Ness
Christopher Bedwell
share.
>
> Unfortunately, No...Because their buyers are mostly newbies who don't
> know better...as this thread illustrates.
Thats pretty arrogant, and very harsh - ok, so i am not as technical about
my beer - who gives a shit, it tastes good - looks good, and smells
delicious - all my mates devoured my last batch.. and they sure as hell
wouldnt drink a shit beer...
surely you can see past the whole " Purist " thing..
alot of people dont have the time to piss around with that bullshit of
making it from scratch - i prefer to know i am going to get a perfect beer
everytime..and so far it has worked for me, so i have absolutely no
problems..
I need a beer that isnt going to take a whole 2 days to make, i have a life
and need my time for more pressing matters - like drinking my last batch..
and besides - nothing can live in molasses, it is far too sugery to have
anything survive... i know this for a fact..
I asked the guy at the home brew shop locally who has won many awards - and
he told me boiling is bullshit and shouldnt need to do that as long as you
steralize thoroughly and use nice filtered water.
so far my " Poor quality unboiled kit " seems to be doing quite well, and so
do the last 2 i did.. and i wouldnt classify myself as anything other than
an amature - it isnt hard to make beer, so lets stop pretending it is.
- Chris
Andrew Hamm
Thanks = that's the kind of replies I hopes for.
>This is certainly possible...However, any responsible Mfg is going
>to be aware of the sanitation issues raised by recomending their
>kits NOT be boiled...They have NO control whatsoever of the
>microbiology of the water added or the cleanliness of the utensils
>used by the brewer...Recommending that wort NOT be boiled is
>an open invitation to infection...and not what I expect (or observe)
>from responsible Kit mfgs.
>
So it's basically a sanitation issue? Tinned *anything* can last for years
and it's only when it's opened to the world that bacteria etc can drift in
again, or re-activate from the fresh air or whatever. If I'm washing my
hands, bleaching my gear etc and generally keeping it clean, do you think
there's still significant risk from tins? Papazian also says (the only book
i've got so far ;-) that if the water is good enough to drink then don't be
afraid to use it straight-up to reach your 5gals / 22litres.
In Sydney here the water is quite good (usually) excepting for mild,
noticable chlorine and the ever-present flouridation. I've sort of wondered
about "resting" the water for a while to let the chlorine dissipate, but
that sounds like a sanitation risk. I don't have enough space or pots to
boil the entire bulk of water I use.
>Bittering can be done and cannned...I don't believe *quality*
>flavoring and aromatic hopping can be canned and preserved.
>
Probably - I'd agree that the concentration of the wort could cause the more
volatile components to disappear. To what degree - who knows?
>> Homebrewing is a growing market,
>Not so sure about that...It looks to me like things have peaked.
>
Hmmm - maybe australia is behind the trends as usual. Where are u from?
>The Large Scale Kit Mfgs are the extract producers...It's EASY
>for them to make small additions to their BULK extracts and can
>"specialty" malts. Add a packet of dried yeast and a small instruction
>slip, and -voila- you have a Kit...Which is then marketed for 3 or 4
>times it's actual value.
>
Emm, what? So, if I go into my shops, get a few tubs of bulk extracts then
I'll get the same product (maybe without hopping) and save money?
>> Even Papazian writes that he's done some lovely brews from supermarket
tins.
>Sure...But I'll bet he boiled them...
>
Well, if it's for sanitation that you strongly recommend, and it won't boil
off the nuances of whatever hopping managed to survive the tinning process,
then I'll give it a go. Would you say without a doubt to boil all tinned
products?
Zamuel
> I've tried to keep quiet on this one, but I have to reply. :)
Women!
That's what the newsgroup's for dear...(g).
>
> Zamuel wrote:
> >In the "distant" past, there were some "Beer Machine" type
> >kits of the "Just add water" variety...Aimed at the "suckers
> >who don't know any better" market... I had thought they
> >died out long ago. Perhaps they've returned from the grave?
> Beer Machine type kits -were- bad. But we're not suckers now because we use
> kits.
That's not what I said...
> >Recommending that wort NOT be boiled is an open invitation to
> >infection...and not what I expect (or observe)
> >from responsible Kit mfgs.
> I have never had a kit go off because while I am a kit brewer, I am still
> careful.
Good for you, do you suppose everyone is that careful?
> > Bittering can be done and cannned...I don't believe *quality*
> > flavoring and aromatic hopping can be canned and preserved.
>
> <shrug> Its a matter of personal taste.
It's a limitation.
> Flavour, texture and aroma of my beers are still superior to those I can buy
> in the pub. Not least of all because -I- made it. :)
Again, Good for you...
> > Homebrewing is a growing market,
> > Not so sure about that...It looks to me like things have peaked.
>
> I'm thinking perhaps you aren't an Australian. Brewkit ownership has grown
> enormously in the past 8 months because of rising costs. Our government have
> slapped heavy taxes on beer, hence the rising interest in homebrews.
That'll do it...I've been brewing for a little over 25years. Here in the US
It really took off in the mid 90s and is still going strong...But no longer
growing like it was. Canadians have recently gotten "Hip" too...(g).
> Yet its still cheaper for me to brew a specialty kit for $30.00 and than
> spend over $90.00 buying decent imported beers.
"Annie get your Gun...!"
Whooops, you can't do that either, can you...
> Your American garden variety beers cost approximately A$3.00 each here (at
> least in South Australia). UK beers are even more expensive to buy.
Oh well, there are worse things to be stuck with than Fosters.
> > Sales volumn on these kits isn't all that high though, they are more
> > of an introductory product...Most repeat buyers soon switch to buying
> > bulk extracts or "shop built" kits that also use the bulks.
>
> Perhaps some do. No one I know does though. We just brew our little kits and
> share beers around.
I would guess that like golf clubs, you don't have access to the
wide variety of things we take for granted here in the US.
Suppose you could hop round the corner and grab 6lbs of bulk
extract, a couple of ounces of hops and a pack of excellent
Coopers ale yeast for about half what you pay for your canned kit?
Might you be persuaded to Boil your wort???
> I'm not a newbie. I don't have the brewing experience of some people around
> here, but I'm fairly competent. I don't mash for several reasons: I don't
> have time, I don't have the energy, I don't require such exacting measures (if
> it tastes good, drink it). This doesn't mean that I will never do a mash.
For much the same reasons, I make extract brews. I usually mash
a lb. or 2 of grain to add character, but that's easy to do with typical
kitchen equipment.
> I think the point to homebrewing (at least for many people in Australia) is
> its cheap, fun and not too hard. I don't know how things stand in the US or
> UK but this is the way it is here.
Much the same, with the added factor that it's just damned
hard to BUY beer this good anywhere.
> To assume that we are cluless is a bit offensive. We just do things
> differently to you guys. It doesn't make us right and you wrong. Just
> different. :)
Sorry if that's the impression I gave you...
]]]Z[[[
Zamuel
> > With so much variety out there, crap kits will rapidly lose market
> >share.
>
> > Unfortunately, No...Because their buyers are mostly newbies who don't
> > know better...as this thread illustrates.
>
> Thats pretty arrogant, and very harsh - ok, so i am not as technical about
> my beer - who gives a shit, it tastes good - looks good, and smells
> delicious - all my mates devoured my last batch.. and they sure as hell
> wouldnt drink a shit beer...
>
> surely you can see past the whole " Purist " thing..
Well...after hearing this
> I asked the guy at the home brew shop locally who has won many awards - and he
> told me boiling is bullshit and shouldnt need to do that as long as you
> steralize thoroughly and use nice filtered water.
I can only conclude that things in AU. lag quite a few years behind
things here in the US/Can. There was a time (quite a while back)
when the same attitudes were common here.
> so far my " Poor quality unboiled kit " seems to be doing quite well, and so
> do the last 2 i did.. and i wouldnt classify myself as anything other than
> an amature - it isnt hard to make beer, so lets stop pretending it is.
Boiling your wort is "Hard"...???
Got that Kangaroo tied down yet...?
(g)...
]]]Z[[[
Andrew Hamm
>
>> >Recommending that wort NOT be boiled is an open invitation to
>> >infection...and not what I expect (or observe)
>> >from responsible Kit mfgs.
>
>> I have never had a kit go off because while I am a kit brewer, I am still
>> careful.
>
>Good for you, do you suppose everyone is that careful?
>
bowl and brew in the laundry toilet, then it's not our problem, and not
worth the assumption that the whole world is careless. Maybe full DYI
brewers will apply better cleanliness because of the very nature of their
enthusiasm, but unless someone is complaining about rancid brews, it would
save a lot of time and conflict to assume we all know how to keep it clean.
Although sanitation is important and should always be emphasised, surely
it's not worth writing off a method just because some people out there maybe
are pigs. Bad sanitation will surely ruin a home-made mash as quickly as
from a tin.
>> I'm thinking perhaps you aren't an Australian. Brewkit ownership has
grown
>> enormously in the past 8 months because of rising costs. Our government
have
>> slapped heavy taxes on beer, hence the rising interest in homebrews.
>
>That'll do it...I've been brewing for a little over 25years. Here in the US
>It really took off in the mid 90s and is still going strong...But no longer
>growing like it was. Canadians have recently gotten "Hip" too...(g).
>
Hobbies like this, CB radios, walkman radios, Internet surfing (still
current) etc seem to reach a natural saturation, and possibly die back. I'm
eagerly waiting for the same to happen with Pokemon and mobile phones.
>"Annie get your Gun...!"
>Whooops, you can't do that either, can you...
>
No, and that's why it's extremely safe for our kids in school, and safe to
visit the local McDonalds or mall, or drive down the freeway. With all the
carnage taking place in America, I can't accept this attempt at a joke. A
minute's silence for all the dead American children, please. Think about it.
>Oh well, there are worse things to be stuck with than Fosters.
>
Name one! That stuff is exported because nobody will drink it here.
>> Perhaps some do. No one I know does though. We just brew our little
kits and
>> share beers around.
>
>I would guess that like golf clubs, you don't have access to the
>wide variety of things we take for granted here in the US.
>
Not true, although I don't know anything about golf. I thought there were
thousands of courses scattered around the country. Lots of Japanese tourists
spend hundreds of thousands of Yen to come here and hit a ball around on a
real course instead of on the roof of a city carpark. Like I said, there are
hundreds of tins, bags and tubs lining the shelves of the homebrew shops
here. Several brands from Aus, New Zealand, Britain, all parts of the EEC
and even from yankee land. Mercifully, American cars are not sold here. It
is said that mobile phones have the highest per-capita use in this country.
Possibly because our phone system actually works and is convenient to use? I
still have nightmares about trying to use the american phone system.
>Suppose you could hop round the corner and grab 6lbs of bulk
>extract, a couple of ounces of hops and a pack of excellent
>Coopers ale yeast for about half what you pay for your canned kit?
>Might you be persuaded to Boil your wort???
>
Sure. In that situation, it's clearly required. You've opened my eyes a bit
about bulk malts, so next visit to my HB shop (after the current stock of
tins are gone) I'll talk to my local grand-master.
>For much the same reasons, I make extract brews. I usually mash
>a lb. or 2 of grain to add character, but that's easy to do with typical
>kitchen equipment.
>
That'll be the next brew. A doppelbock with crystal, chocolate and black
grains. Several pots already have required hopping activites. We'll get
there. But we still love our tins and bags.
>Much the same, with the added factor that it's just damned
>hard to BUY beer this good anywhere.
>
Amen to that brother.
Andrew Hamm
>
>Well...after hearing this
>
>> I asked the guy at the home brew shop locally who has won many awards -
and he
>> told me boiling is bullshit and shouldnt need to do that as long as you
>> steralize thoroughly and use nice filtered water.
>
>I can only conclude that things in AU. lag quite a few years behind
>things here in the US/Can. There was a time (quite a while back)
>when the same attitudes were common here.
>
followed advice to boil the adjuncts - dried or liquid malts, dextrose (if I
may be so rude), hops etc. It makes sense that bacteria could survive in any
package that is not totally air-tight or tinned straight after a boiling
process of manufacture.
Sometimes in hobbies, scientifically unproven opinions can become gospel due
to the enthusiasts feeding off each other, and perhaps some ego-driven
individuals attempting to be better than everyone else. A classic example
can be found in British Photography magazines. The prevailing attitudes
there are quite extraordinary in their fussiness, and from a perspective of
other groups, they are missing the point of the photography in their
obsession with technical issues that add no life at all to the resulting
image. I'm thinking of one particular magazine here (name escapes me) and
please don't think I'm now slagging off amateur photographers in Britain.
Other magazines show some beautiful and creative work from that land.
I'd love to see numbers which PROVE that even tins need boiling despite the
manufacturer saying they've already boiled and bottled in sterilized
conditions. If someone can explain exactly how the taste and texture of
their tins improve with boiling then I'd really like to hear it. Some
sensations are really vague. Most people couldn't tell the difference
between a CD and a vinyl LP apart from the popping and crackling.
Vanessa Moore
> Vanessa Moore wrote:
>
> > I've tried to keep quiet on this one, but I have to reply. :)
>
> Women!
> That's what the newsgroup's for dear...(g).
<grin>
> > >Recommending that wort NOT be boiled is an open invitation to
> > >infection...and not what I expect (or observe)
> > >from responsible Kit mfgs.
>
> > I have never had a kit go off because while I am a kit brewer, I am
still
> > careful.
>
> Good for you, do you suppose everyone is that careful?
<shrug> Not my problem if they aren't.
> > Yet its still cheaper for me to brew a specialty kit for $30.00 and than
> > spend over $90.00 buying decent imported beers.
>
> "Annie get your Gun...!"
> Whooops, you can't do that either, can you...
Actually, my company sells them so yes, I can. :) Your point, however, is
relevant. Good beer shouldn't be expensive.
> > Your American garden variety beers cost approximately A$3.00 each here
(at
> > least in South Australia). UK beers are even more expensive to buy.
>
> Oh well, there are worse things to be stuck with than Fosters.
<blink> There are?
> > To assume that we are cluless is a bit offensive. We just do things
> > differently to you guys. It doesn't make us right and you wrong. Just
> > different. :)
>
> Sorry if that's the impression I gave you...
No problem. Just trying to improve international relations. :)
Ness
Zamuel
> Thanks = that's the kind of replies I hopes for.
Well, I'm glad SOMEBODY liked it...(g).
Zamuel wrote:
> >Recommending that wort NOT be boiled is an open invitation to
> >infection...and not what I expect (or observe)from responsible Kit mfgs.
> So it's basically a sanitation issue? Tinned *anything* can last for years
> and it's only when it's opened to the world that bacteria etc can drift in
> again, or re-activate from the fresh air or whatever. If I'm washing my
> hands, bleaching my gear etc and generally keeping it clean, do you think
> there's still significant risk from tins?
Not if you can do so perfectly...are you perfect?
There's always potential for infection, IMHO if you boil
the wort, you eliminate about 90% of that potential.
Your beer is still vulnerable while you transfer
and cool the wort, until you get the fermenter
sealed up. The fermenter itself could still contaminate
the wort...But you have eliminated all other potential for
infection and you have guaranteed your water.
> Papazian also says (the only book i've got so far ;-) that if the water is
> good enough to drink then don't be afraid to use it straight-up to reach your
> 5gals / 22litres.
I'm not saying it won't work, But it won't take too many
batches of infected beer to make a believer in boiling out
of you.
> In Sydney here the water is quite good (usually) excepting for mild,
> noticable chlorine and the ever-present flouridation. I've sort of wondered
> about "resting" the water for a while to let the chlorine dissipate, but
> that sounds like a sanitation risk. I don't have enough space or pots to
> boil the entire bulk of water I use.
I use mostly bottled water, at $.47 US a gallon it's cheap insurance.
Also, I can ultra-cool it in the freezer while it's still sealed, then use it
to chill the hot wort and get a good cold break.
> >Homebrewing is a growing market,
> >Not so sure about that...It looks to me like things have peaked.
>
> Hmmm - maybe australia is behind the trends as usual. Where are u from?
Yes, I know Australians have been homebrewing (and making
some excellent wines and Meads) for quite a while, but it sounds
like it's growing more popular.
> Emm, what? So, if I go into my shops, get a few tubs of bulk extracts then
> I'll get the same product (maybe without hopping) and save money?
Most likely...Good Kits (Iron Master? John Bull?) here can cost
$12-$18US for 3.3 lb tins...3lbs of Bulk extract costs me $6US
Hops pellets are cheap here (under $1 per oz.)
> Would you say without a doubt to boil all tinned products?
I do...
There's a nice online book at www.howtobrew.com that you
might find interesting...
]]]Z[[[
Andrew Hamm
>Andrew Hamm wrote:
>
>> Thanks = that's the kind of replies I hopes for.
>
>Well, I'm glad SOMEBODY liked it...(g).
>
with e-mail and newsgroup is ending up in a mud-slinging shit-fight (aka
flame-war) but I find that if you stay friendly, acknowledge what you agree
with, appreciate and so on, then everyone knows we are just having a chat
over a few beers. I thought I might have gone a bit far with some of my
prodding, but that's just me being a bastard.
>Not if you can do so perfectly...are you perfect?
>
My mum thinks I am. As for my wife...
>I'm not saying it won't work, But it won't take too many
>batches of infected beer to make a believer in boiling out
>of you.
>
I'm probably living on borrowed time then! Anyway, I'm slowly progressing
and sanitation is one of the big questions. Just how paranoid do you need to
be? The funny part is, half the blokes doing homebrew who are obsessive
about sanitation, their wife/girlfriend probably curses continually at them
to pick up their socks and don't pick their noses in public ;->
>I use mostly bottled water, at $.47 US a gallon it's cheap insurance.
>Also, I can ultra-cool it in the freezer while it's still sealed, then use
it
>to chill the hot wort and get a good cold break.
>
I haven't looked at bulk water bottles, but a 750ml bottle (is that called a
"fifth" in US?) is something in the dollars which is a total bloody rip-off.
Hmmm, we do have a water cooler here in the office - I'm getting an idea!
>Yes, I know Australians have been homebrewing (and making
>some excellent wines and Meads) for quite a while, but it sounds
>like it's growing more popular.
>
Since I announced my efforts, several people have come out of the woodwork
to say they used to do it, do it now, or are thinking about it. It seems to
be gathering steam and the shops are popping up everywhere.
>Hops pellets are cheap here (under $1 per oz.)
>
Hops are cheap here too, but don't know about the bulk malts. Probably
similar.
Hey, with the hops, if I buy 50gm and use 20, what's the best way to keep
them? Obviously an air-tight container, but where: in the fridge? Freezer? A
dark cupboard?
Zamuel
> Bad sanitation will surely ruin a home-made mash as quickly as
> from a tin.
A boiled wort has a very small window of vulnerability.
Your Cold brew is endangered the minute you open
the can...Speaking of which...Just how carefully do you
sanitise that CAN-OPENER...? (g)
> >"Annie get your Gun...!"
> >Whooops, you can't do that either, can you...
>
> No, and that's why it's extremely safe for our kids in school, and safe to
> visit the local McDonalds or mall, or drive down the freeway.
ummm Yes...Just this afternoon I was potshooting at kiddies
eating Big Macs as their schoolbus got on the freeway...
> With all the carnage taking place in America, I can't accept this attempt at a
> joke. A minute's silence for all the dead American children, please. Think
> about it.
Then think for a moment about the children of the holocaust and
their disarmed parents...But hey, It CAN'T happen there...right?
> >Oh well, there are worse things to be stuck with than Fosters.
>
> Name one! That stuff is exported because nobody will drink it here.
Budweiser.
> >Suppose you could hop round the corner and grab 6lbs of bulk
> >extract, a couple of ounces of hops and a pack of excellent
> >Coopers ale yeast for about half what you pay for your canned kit?
> >Might you be persuaded to Boil your wort???
>
> Sure. In that situation, it's clearly required. You've opened my eyes a bit
> about bulk malts, so next visit to my HB shop (after the current stock of
> tins are gone) I'll talk to my local grand-master.
I think I see a lot of happy wort boiling in your future...
BTW, you're gonna love the smell.
]]]Z[[[
Zamuel
> >I'm not saying it won't work, But it won't take too many
> >batches of infected beer to make a believer in boiling out
> >of you.
Andrew Hamm wrote:
> I'm probably living on borrowed time then! Anyway, I'm slowly progressing and
> sanitation is one of the big questions. Just how paranoid do you need to be?
Everybody gets bit sooner or later...I find -Confident- to be
a better attitude than paranoid...And boiling makes me much
more confident.
> I haven't looked at bulk water bottles, but a 750ml bottle (is that called a
> "fifth" in US?) is something in the dollars which is a total bloody rip-off.
Yes we have the "designer" water syndrome here too...But most
markets offer a selection of distilled, spring, and drinking, water
very economicaly in 1Gal bottles.
> Hmmm, we do have a water cooler here in the office - I'm getting an idea!
Yes...you're catching on...But 5 Gal water carboys are to
big to get into my freezer.
> Hops are cheap here too, but don't know about the bulk malts. Probably
> similar.
Well...You should be able to at least get Coopers...It's an
australian product.
> Hey, with the hops, if I buy 50gm and use 20, what's the best way to keep
> them? Obviously an air-tight container, but where: in the fridge? Freezer?
Freezer is best...some of them will keep their freshness very well.
]]]Z[[[
Joel Plutchak
>I'd love to see numbers which PROVE that even tins need boiling despite the
>manufacturer saying they've already boiled and bottled in sterilized
>conditions. If someone can explain exactly how the taste and texture of
>their tins improve with boiling then I'd really like to hear it.
No proof here, but my understanding is that even extracts
benefit from boiling, which produces "hot break"-- undesirable
large proteins coagulating and dropping out of solution. Also,
if you want the added control of adding your own bittering (and
to a much lesser extent flavoring) hops, you *must* boil them in
order to isomerize the components in hops that allow them to
dissolve, stabilize, and stay in the finished beer.
--
Joel Plutchak
"Would you prefer... the ancient set of problems (disease, starvation,
no access to Sierra Nevada)?" - Chris Colby in HBD
DAsh
The competition is fierce! The challenge is to "Name Something Worse than
Being Stuck With Foster's".
---
"Zamuel" <Zam...@worldnet.att.net> replied to the challenge in message
news:3AD2BC3B...@worldnet.att.net...
>
> > >Oh well, there are worse things to be stuck with than Fosters.
> >
> > Name one! That stuff is exported because nobody will drink it here.
>
> Budweiser.
---
DAsh responds:
Here are 4 that are worse than the dreaded American Budweiser:
1. Buck Beer ---thank God I think they've stopped production, but I
remember this cheap colored water from my very early days of beer drinking
and very little cash to support my thirst.
2. Lite beer
3. Bud Lite... perhaps this one could be lumped together with it's barely
stronger big brother?
4. Coors Lite
I've tried Foster's-- three times, actually, because I couldn't believe the
first couple of times that Australian brewers would actually go to all the
trouble of trying to convince their American friends that this was their
best beer. Oh well. No matter what method you're using to homebrew, if
you're homebrewing a beer that *you* like, brew on!!!
--
DAsh
"As long as the world is spinning, we'll all be dizzy and nauseous." Mel
Brooks, the 2000 Year Old Man
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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Mike Uchima
>
> Howdy, y'all---
>
> The competition is fierce! The challenge is to "Name Something Worse than
> Being Stuck With Foster's".
>
> ---
> "Zamuel" <Zam...@worldnet.att.net> replied to the challenge in message
> news:3AD2BC3B...@worldnet.att.net...
> >
> > > >Oh well, there are worse things to be stuck with than Fosters.
> > >
> > > Name one! That stuff is exported because nobody will drink it here.
> >
> > Budweiser.
> ---
> DAsh responds:
> Here are 4 that are worse than the dreaded American Budweiser:
>
> 1. Buck Beer ---thank God I think they've stopped production, but I
> remember this cheap colored water from my very early days of beer drinking
> and very little cash to support my thirst.
Ahhh, those were the days, eh? I vaguely recall a beer from my college
days, which IIRC was called "Wisconsin Club Light". Nastiest stuff ever
to see the inside of a beer bottle. I think I took one swig, and dumped
the rest of the bottle down the drain. For a poor, thirsty college
student to do *that*... well, you get the picture. :-)
> 2. Lite beer
> 3. Bud Lite... perhaps this one could be lumped together with it's barely
> stronger big brother?
Actually, Bud Lite is slightly less offensive than regular Bud.
Probably because it is more like water than it's "big" brother...
> 4. Coors Lite
>
> I've tried Foster's-- three times, actually, because I couldn't believe the
> first couple of times that Australian brewers would actually go to all the
> trouble of trying to convince their American friends that this was their
> best beer. Oh well. No matter what method you're using to homebrew, if
> you're homebrewing a beer that *you* like, brew on!!!
>
> --
> DAsh
I would also put in a vote for any green bottled import purchased at a
major supermarket chain (who tend to leave beer sitting under the
flourescent lights long enough that the smell is enough to make you
gag). At least Fosters is in a can, and can't get lightstruck.
Glenn Langowski
a little clearer on the Australian point of view if I knew where they are in
terms of home brewing. I have not been in this hobby as long as many of the
other Americans posting here, so I am wondering if Australia is further back
than when I started.
My first batch was a Brewer's Best Pale Ale. The owner of the supply shop
went over the whole process with me. He said to boil. The instructions in
the kit said to boil. Papazian's New Complete Joy... came with the kit and
that said to boil. So, to me, boiling is the way it's done. Also, the kit
came with malt extract, some crushed specialty grains, "boiling" and
"flavoring" hops (no mention of variety), corn sugar and dried yeast. I
didn't use sugar to boost the OG, so *that* practice seems irregular to me.
That kind of kit is all I ever used until I graduated to exploring different
malt extracts, hops and liquid yeasts, and then to all-grain. It sounds to
me like the Australian kits are not as sophisticated (for lack of a better
word) as the Brewer's Best kits.
I can say to our Aussie brothers-in-arms that the progression to formulating
your own recipes makes for a better brew (if you are so inclined to go that
way). Why let a kit manufacturer decide the types and rates of hops when
you can do that? Why let the kit maker decide that your pale ale should be
35 IBU when you would rather it be a zesty 50? You get the point. And,
when you do get to that point, you will want to boil to make sure that you
get full isomerization, good hot break and sterile wort.
Just my 2 cents.
Andrew Hamm <ah...@sanderson.net.au> wrote in message
news:3ad16b1a$1...@news.iprimus.com.au...
jlhoffman
to me that if you are afraid to boil them due to loss of the manufacturer's
hop oil flavorings, you might achieve the hot break by bringing the wort up
to a boil and holding it there for 1 minute and skimming off the foam. This
is essentially what a jelly maker does. Just a thought, John
"Joel Plutchak" <plut...@SncsaP.uiucA.eduM> wrote in message
news:9av3e5$b...@brew.ncsa.uiuc.edu...
Andrew Hamm
Glenn Langowski wrote in message <9b06qb$m9u$3...@newstest.laserlink.net>...
>I have been watching this on-going boil or not debate. I would probably be
>a little clearer on the Australian point of view if I knew where they are
in
>terms of home brewing.
Well, the homebrew shops here are lined with international and local tins of
enormous variety, lots of hop choices, and a variety of equipment from
around the world. Regarding bulk malts, grains, liquid yeasts etc I couldn't
comment because until recently (;-) that was fancy stuff for "people with
too much time on their hands I reckon". But I'll chew the fat next time I
visit and get a feel for the range. There are also racks of books.
So, I think we have _access_ to what's available anywhere in the world, and
there are certainly obsessive people here who are probably inline with
worlds-best practice. I've seen pamphets for competitions etc and my local
supplier is planning to take the national Stout championship this year in
June I think.
>My first batch was a Brewer's Best Pale Ale.
Don't recall seeing "Brewer's Best" as a brand name, but that doesn't mean
it's not here. I'll keep my eyes open. I recall Morgans, Brewmaster,
Brewcraft, Black Rock, because I've bought the stuff, but there are several
other brands that my piss-poor memory doesn't remember.
>It sounds to
>me like the Australian kits are not as sophisticated (for lack of a better
>word) as the Brewer's Best kits.
>
I would probably disagree with that (if I knew what I was talking about)
because there seems to be such a huge international range available. On that
alone I'd say we have access to world best. Probably the aussie
manufacturers would say they are on par with world quality too. Apparently
aussie hops and grains are very popular exports to the world, which is not
surprising given the range of climate and huge amount of good farmland
available. So possibly my tins from UK are perhaps just coming home for the
party.
>I can say to our Aussie brothers-in-arms that the progression to
formulating
>your own recipes makes for a better brew (if you are so inclined to go that
>way). Why let a kit manufacturer decide the types and rates of hops when
>you can do that?
>
Emm, well an early decision was to "not make the same brew twice" and I
think you could go for a long time doing 3 pots a month before you run out
of tinned variety. I guess the same could be said of using bulks and hopping
yourself, so it sounds like an interesting path to go. At least with the
kits you have some good chance of getting a good copy of commercial
products. So far, my work does indeed get close to the targets so somebody
must have done their research to recommend the recipes.
>Why let the kit maker decide that your pale ale should be
>35 IBU when you would rather it be a zesty 50? You get the point.
>
Yup. 2 tins to go and then I'll look at moving on. Especially if bulk malts
are cheaper which would be a bonus.
>And,
>when you do get to that point, you will want to boil to make sure that
>you get full isomerization, good hot break and sterile wort.
>
Isomerization? I'll have to look that up. Someone else mentioned that too.
Also, I've read mentions of something like "diaso-mumble pauses" or
something. What does this all mean?
>Just my 2 cents.
>
The way the Aussie dollar is going, we'll have to contribute 4c and it looks
like it will soon cost 5c to have an opinion.
Andrew Hamm
>
>...Speaking of which...Just how carefully do you
>sanitise that CAN-OPENER...? (g)
>
>Then think for a moment about the children of the holocaust and
>their disarmed parents...But hey, It CAN'T happen there...right?
>
Well, if armies want to march in and start genocide then even home armies
can't help. I understand the villagers in the Balkan states have rifles etc
but we've all seen the carnage there so I can't see the argument being
valid. Ditto Lebanon where there were private militias and lots of easily
accessed weaponry, and minimal law. Anyways, this is not the forum for this
kind of subject, but I will point out that if you try to poke fun at aussies
about our lack of access to weapons of mass destruction, the joke will
backfire on you because 99% of us can see the benefits of gun control.
Sporters and farmers still can do their thing here although they grumble
about it. The system is not perfect and it's getting tougher on the
responsible gun owners but the benefits at least are clear. If humans
weren't so defective then there wouldn't be an issue.
>I think I see a lot of happy wort boiling in your future...
>BTW, you're gonna love the smell.
>
But not cleaning up the shite that blows over the sides when it reaches the
boil ;-( I've suffered that from boiling up to dissolve malt adjuncts etc.
Damn.
Andrew Hamm
>I don't use cans(tins) because I am a cheap bastard.
>
homebrewing. Hey - that's another word for the aussie lingo thread: "slops"
= beer
>you might achieve the hot break by bringing the wort up
>to a boil and holding it there for 1 minute and skimming off the foam.
>
OK - so the stuff on the top is the issue? And if I go for bulk malts that's
what I need to remove? Before or after the foam subsides? Or during? I would
have guessed that the crap settles to the bottom, or is converted to a form
that will settle to the bottom in the primary where it can be left behind.
Any facts, details, and good practices would be appreciated.
Mike Uchima
>
> Well, the homebrew shops here are lined with international and local tins of
> enormous variety, lots of hop choices, and a variety of equipment from
> around the world. Regarding bulk malts, grains, liquid yeasts etc I couldn't
> comment because until recently (;-) that was fancy stuff for "people with
> too much time on their hands I reckon". But I'll chew the fat next time I
> visit and get a feel for the range. There are also racks of books.
Well, *most* hobbies are for "people with too much time on their hands I
reckon". :-) Some of us just like to tinker...
> So, I think we have _access_ to what's available anywhere in the world, and
> there are certainly obsessive people here who are probably inline with
> worlds-best practice. I've seen pamphets for competitions etc and my local
> supplier is planning to take the national Stout championship this year in
> June I think.
Yeah, some people really get into the whole competition scene, while
others couldn't care less. I didn't start entering them with any sort
of regularity until I'd been brewing for a couple of years. They can be
a lot of fun; and if you are trying to perfect a recipe for a particular
style of beer, you can get some good feedback from (usually) qualified
beer judges.
> >My first batch was a Brewer's Best Pale Ale.
> Don't recall seeing "Brewer's Best" as a brand name, but that doesn't mean
> it's not here. I'll keep my eyes open. I recall Morgans, Brewmaster,
> Brewcraft, Black Rock, because I've bought the stuff, but there are several
> other brands that my piss-poor memory doesn't remember.
IIRC, Brewers Best kits are actually put together by one of the big US
homebrew supply distributors, so I wouldn't be too surprised if you
don't get 'em much over in Australia. Last time I brewed one (which was
quite a few years ago), all of the malt extract was Munton & Fison, and
they packaged Muntons dry yeast with the kit. They are generally decent
as prepackaged kits go -- all malt (they don't tell you to add sugar,
except for priming).
> >It sounds to
> >me like the Australian kits are not as sophisticated (for lack of a better
> >word) as the Brewer's Best kits.
> >
> I would probably disagree with that (if I knew what I was talking about)
> because there seems to be such a huge international range available. On that
> alone I'd say we have access to world best. Probably the aussie
> manufacturers would say they are on par with world quality too. Apparently
> aussie hops and grains are very popular exports to the world, which is not
> surprising given the range of climate and huge amount of good farmland
> available. So possibly my tins from UK are perhaps just coming home for the
> party.
>
> >I can say to our Aussie brothers-in-arms that the progression to
> formulating
> >your own recipes makes for a better brew (if you are so inclined to go that
> >way). Why let a kit manufacturer decide the types and rates of hops when
> >you can do that?
> >
> Emm, well an early decision was to "not make the same brew twice" and I
> think you could go for a long time doing 3 pots a month before you run out
> of tinned variety. I guess the same could be said of using bulks and hopping
> yourself, so it sounds like an interesting path to go.
Well, by putting the recipes together yourself, you can say things like,
"Hmm... that last one wasn't quite hoppy enough, I think I'll add an
extra half ounce of hops this time", or "I'd like more roasted character
in my Stout, I'll bump the roasted barley up by 25% this time", or... I
think you get the idea. It would be kind of difficult to get this kind
of control from kits alone.
> At least with the
> kits you have some good chance of getting a good copy of commercial
> products. So far, my work does indeed get close to the targets so somebody
> must have done their research to recommend the recipes.
Some styles lend themselves quite well to kit brewing, while others will
tend to be more difficult to emulate with a pre-packaged kit...
especially if the kits come with "generic" dry yeast.
> >Why let the kit maker decide that your pale ale should be
> >35 IBU when you would rather it be a zesty 50? You get the point.
> >
> Yup. 2 tins to go and then I'll look at moving on. Especially if bulk malts
> are cheaper which would be a bonus.
>
> >And,
> >when you do get to that point, you will want to boil to make sure that
> >you get full isomerization, good hot break and sterile wort.
> >
> Isomerization? I'll have to look that up. Someone else mentioned that too.
> Also, I've read mentions of something like "diaso-mumble pauses" or
> something. What does this all mean?
FWIW, there's a brewing terms glossary on my Web page
(http://www.pobox.com/~uchima/brew/glossary)... but I don't think I've
got an entry for "diaso-mumble pauses" in there just yet. :-)
> >Just my 2 cents.
> >
> The way the Aussie dollar is going, we'll have to contribute 4c and it looks
> like it will soon cost 5c to have an opinion.
--
Andrew Hamm
>
>FWIW, there's a brewing terms glossary on my Web page
>(http://www.pobox.com/~uchima/brew/glossary)... but I don't think I've
>got an entry for "diaso-mumble pauses" in there just yet. :-)
>
with it.
DAsh
referring to, you won't need to worry about it until you decide to do an
all-grain, mash-it-yourself lager, if *my* memory serves me as more than the
what-I-forget-with tool it has become.
Cheers {:-)
--
DAsh
"As long as the world is spinning, we'll all be dizzy and nauseous." Mel
Brooks, the 2000 Year Old Man
"Andrew Hamm" <ah...@sanderson.net.au> wrote in message
news:3ad3c824$1...@news.iprimus.com.au...
Andrew Hamm
>Does 'diacetyl rest' raise any memories? If that's the phrase you're
>referring to, you won't need to worry about it until you decide to do an
>all-grain, mash-it-yourself lager, if *my* memory serves me as more than
the
>what-I-forget-with tool it has become.
>
OK, I might get into malt extracts, boiling up grains (mashing?) hopping etc
but I draw the line at malting my own grain. Does anyone here do that? Am I
about to be lectured again about the benefits of something else?
Anyways, when I'm ready to bash on with my little bags of malt (a week or
two) I'll lob in with a few questions for sure
Mike Uchima
mainly a function of yeast strain and temperature. But it *is* more of
an issue with lagers...
--
== Mike Uchima == uch...@pobox.com == http://www.pobox.com/~uchima ==
DAsh wrote:
>
> Does 'diacetyl rest' raise any memories? If that's the phrase you're
> referring to, you won't need to worry about it until you decide to do an
> all-grain, mash-it-yourself lager, if *my* memory serves me as more than the
> what-I-forget-with tool it has become.
>
> Cheers {:-)
> --
> DAsh
>
Mike Uchima
Very few homebrewers malt their own barley... malting and kilning enough
grain for a batch of beer presents some logistical issues, to put it
mildly. Not to say that I wouldn't like to give it a try sometime,
"just for grins"...
There are quite a few homebrewers who grow their own hops though.
--
== Mike Uchima == uch...@pobox.com == http://www.pobox.com/~uchima ==
Christopher Bedwell
what total and utter horse piss !
- Chris.
DAsh <ash...@iefx.com> wrote in message
news:3ad33...@corp.newsfeeds.com...
jlhoffman
45 min boil with the hops that you are going to use to flavor your beer.
This boil time is necessary because the oils in leaf or pellet hops are
stubborn little brutes that won't disolve quickly. In the kits these oils
are already disolved as the manufacturer added a hop extract to the wort
before canning it. Homebrewers do not generally use hop oil extracts
probably due to the difficulty in measuring the small amount necessary for
the typical 5 or 10 gallon batch. This is not a problem when you are going
to prepare 100,000 1.8kg tins of kit beer. The method I mentioned in my
prior message applies only to cans(tins) of hopped extract. It is intended
as a way to remove some but not all of the hot break without, hopefully,
risking the evaporation of the manufacturer's hop oils that a 15 min boil of
the kit would entail. Many prefer to leave the hot and cold break in their
beers in the belief that it adds to the flavor profile and the body of the
beer. This you can judge for yourself by brewing and drinking. Another
method used to remove the break material is to drop your beer, in other
words to siphon the beer into another fermentation vessel soon after the
yeast gathers on the top and brown flecks appear on its surface. Care is
taken to assure that neither the scum on the top or the junk on the bottom
is carried to the secondary fermentation vessel. I do not believe that this
will fully work unless you casue the hot break to occur in the first place
hence the procedure I mentioned in my first post. Cheers, John
>
Andy Davison
wrote in message <3AD3E6...@pobox.com>:
>I don't think all-grain really relates to diacetyl at all... it is
>mainly a function of yeast strain and temperature. But it *is* more of
>an issue with lagers...
Diacetyl is definitely more often associated with lagers but I found
that Safale04 yeast gives strong diacetyl flavours when fermented a
tad low. Bottle conditioning mellows this right out but it was a bit
of a shock to get this in an ale.
--
Andy Davison
andy.d...@btinternet.com
Robin Powlus
extract.
--
Robin
The Poconos
"Christopher Bedwell" <t...@southwest.com.au> wrote in message
news:98673987...@karri.southwest.com.au...
> no no non noononononooo
>
> > Christopher Bedwell wrote:
> >
> > > i am not boiling - its just a kit that i add hot water too... should i
> just
> > > add them to the hot wort and leave for 15 mins ?
> >
> > Sounds like a pretty bogus kit...Has it got you adding a bunch
> > of SUGAR too...?
>
> No, i asked the guy at the home brew shop how can i get it more hoppy -
with
> a little more OOMPH ! - and he gave me a packet of hop pellets, told me to
> use half the packet and then freeze the rest.. its a dark ale..
> ( too late now anyhow - i made it and didnt bother with the hop pellets -
> instead i added 1kg - 2.2lb of dark chocolate malt to the mix - and it
> SMELLS YUMMY ! )
>
> > You should boil it, for around an hour and skim the residue that
> > collects on top off...If the extract already has hops added, then
> > add your hops about 5 min before the boiling is finished. If the
> > extract has no in it, add half of yours for the entire length of the
> > boil, and the second half for the last 5 min.
>
> I will remember that - but on the can it says not to boil it - it says
that
> boiling will adversely affect the taste of the malt - and this was done in
> the factory.. so i didnt bother..
>
> > DON'T add sugar to it. Go back to the shop and get a similar
> > weight of Dried Malt Extract instead.
>
> Never use sugar - i always use dextrose, but now i decided to use dark
> malt - smells delicious - and i also added 1L of honey to it - and it was
> absolutely amasing the smell - the yeast went SPASTIC in about 10
> minutes.... and it started growing..
> How does dried malt differ compared to liquid ?
>
> > Good Luck.
>
> Thanks - i am gonna need it in the morning when my missus finds i put the
> fermentor in the loungeroom near the heater - ( its freezing here atm !! )
>
> dont worry - the heater is off - but the room is beaut !
>
> > ]]]Z[[[
>
> - Chris.
>
>
bregent
>
>Try boiling the hops in plain water for 15 minutes before adding the malt
>extract.
Why?